One of these is safer than you think
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Sterling PowerCord vs V-TX. Well, that's what it originally was about, but we decided to break over 140 samples to understand all the accessory cords we have to discover 12kn 7mm nylon cord is actually stronger than PowerCord at 19kn??? At least when you use it, which is the only thing that is relevant imo.
All our accessory cord is at hownot2.store/...
Our detailed spreadsheet can be found on our blog with all the things we broke in this video hownot2.store/...
Thank you Walt Waldow for supporting this episode.
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Our detailed spreadsheet is at hownot2.store/blogs/news/pc-vs-vtx
All our accessory cord is at hownot2.store/collections/accessory-cord
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Hey Ryan, my name is Matt. I’m a weekend climber who builds custom campers and RV’s. We have a fab shop, and can weld up anything you want, and would love to contribute to the channel in any way we can. If you’d like some new more heavy duty ballads to pull on that won’t deform let me know. Zero dollars. Just want to help.
Matt, that is a very cool and most generous offer. Thank you.
@@johngo6283 I like nerdy stuff. This is right up my alley. I don’t want recognition, deals, branding, idc. I like data. This kind of stuff makes me feel safe both at work and in recreation. I’ve referenced the material in these videos numerous times when explaining to my apprentices at work why I trust the system (fall protection, knots, etc.). I just appreciate what this channel does for the sport. It’s cool.
As someone who has started using hitches more often for rope-climbing of trees, I've been sadly disappointed by the lack of good real-world info on accessory cord. So thank you for your work in adding to that knowledge. Interesting to see that good old nylon still "just works" in real-world conditions whereas high-tech fibers require nuance and careful consideration to be used to maximum effect.
exactly, the good old pa cord just do the job in normal usage. it´s long lasting and damn cheap. Just when someone need a no strecht cord for special applications, pe or aramide is handy.
If you're going to replace the metal drums you use for breaking, you might want to try filling the middle of the drum with concrete. Steel is strong in tension, concrete is strong in compression. The concrete filling will support the concrete "skin" and prevent it from necking.
I'm imagining a concrete cylinder going flying when the object under test finally breaks...
@@leveller4you can literally weld end caps to it
@@yawningdog9894Not my point. See how the diverter recoils and careens around at @3:27? Now imagine it doing that filled with concrete. Seems like it could cause a lot of damage.
Breaking all the stock in your store is somewhat equivalent to a drug dealer getting high on their own supply 😂😂😂
But when you’re getting supporters that donate specifically for some of said breaking (as was the case with this video), that’s more akin to some getting by on the customers supply. Much better for business.
"Where's your sense of humor" "It has evolved past the third grade"😂
Request: make an episode testing the most bomber way to sling a chicken head. Headed to Cochise next week and there just is not a lot of info out there. Would be interested to see if different mm cordelletes made into various sling lengths with double fisherman’s would hold a fall. Also curious what the actual strength of different methods of slinging chickenheads are. Like clove vs girth etc. Would be super interesting if a little niche.
Hey Ryan. Could you do some break testing on the Technora when it gets super heated? I'm curious how strong it is at higher temperatures. I am primarily interested in it's potential application for bailout material as a firefighter.
I would think that's the perfect application for Technora.
Technora will be your best bet 100%. Check out sterlings page. They have a number of technora ropes for that specific purpose. Including 100% technora double braids that have easily spliced cores. I have used their H3 Tech 125, and it's bomb proof.
Sometimes the reason powercord is chosen over a sling has more to do with being able to untie it after it has been loaded. Dyneema slings can get extremely difficult to until after a few falls. If you're doing multis and just racking the quad after use, that's fine, but if you need that sling for something else it becomes a real pain.
I also thought power cord was more abrasion resistant that dyneema or VTX. No?
Since it has a sheat and a core it should be more bomber than a plain sling. Also, if you happen to need a lot of cord for emergencies you already got some.
Also, hpme doesn't like UV and bending right? So you have to retire your quad earlier if made of a 240cm sling
@@iacamigevaerd376 Technora likes bending less than hmpe.
@@jbringleyable Most likely power cord is the less abrasion resistant than VTX, because the nylon sheath will abraid more easily than the polyester sheath.
Thanks again for testing stuff we can only wonder about. Two points to contemplate.
First, If you believe the theory (and I don't), the sum of the separate core and sheath breaking strengths should be greater than breaking strength of the rope. The main reason is the lay angle theta of the yarns in the sheath. When the sheath is on the rope, the lay angle is rather high -- like 45 degrees -- and a straight pull of the rope makes each yarn see a force proportional to 1/cos(theta). As the separately-pulled sheathe stretches, theta decreases and the force on each yarn gets to be a lower fraction of the total pull force. The actual trig relationships are way complicated.
Second, diverters are supposed to make wrapped rope follow the capstan equation; with each wrap there is an exponential decrease. If each wrap causes a 2x multiplication of force, 4 wraps gives 16x force multiplication, and 8 wraps gives a 256x multiplication, 12 wraps gives a 4096x multiplication. OK, you probably knew that.
I break a lot of cordage, and I noticed some pre-packaged 7mm REI cords break at least 1.5 times the stated mbs. (I have a quasi-diverter.) I wonder if the manufacturer is really giving us the 8-8 strength? I've also noticed a variation of 10% in the weight per length in different batches of supposedly the same rope or webbing from REI.
Is there any particular reason you don't believe the theory?
@@patrickherke8947 Somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But the full theory has a more dramatic dependence on lay angle, and takes into account the forces the crossing yarns impart on each other, models the yarns as helices and more. I am about to leave, and could not locate that paper right now, but will try to find it later.
@patrickherke8947 McKenna, H.A., Hearle, J.W.S. and O’Hear, N. (2004) Handbook of Fibre Rope Technology. CRC Press, Boca Raton, Fl. pp 145-146. (available on web as pdf as of 2018). pp 144-145
@@harlanstockman5703 sounds interesting, I'll have to take a look at the paper when I get a chance
One of your most applicable videos
Really loving the real world break test values in loops and 8 to 8.
This info has been so hard to get for so long. Everyone who uses high tenacity cords should watch this video. You should also do some flex-fatigue testing on these cords using your rubmaster5000.
More funny than you lifting weights was the quiet snicker of your partner in crime in the background. Nice, Bobby!
I don't have any VTX but I do use Bluewater Titan cord as a cordalette for trad and mountaineering, which I think is a similar construction to VTX (dyneema core). I like the way it handles waaay better than the stiffer powercord, and I was also concerned with some old test data showing that aramid-family fibers lose strength rather quickly due to repeated bending, so while powercord might start stronger than VTX or Titan cord, it likely will be weaker than them after some use, especially if constantly tied and retied as a cordalette.
I would love to see a test on atc belay devices wich is the safest, has the best friction ect ect. Especially the omega pacific sbg I would love to see the versatility of it tested
Thanks - I re-cord my old wild country nuts with 5.5mm spectra accessory cord, but recently I’ve been looking at 5mm dynema from chandleries (boat shops). This was super helpful, and the tight curve going through the nuts has me somewhat more thoughtful.
You clipped the shelf of the powercord incorrectly
Do you somehow recycle the used material for break testing? I know sterling will take rope the materials back etc.
we recycle in house ;) hownot2.store/products/clamp-big-wall-stove-hanger
@@HowNOT2 Epic! I should have known better...
@@HowNOT2fuck yea!! That's the best use I can think of for the technora.
Could you please keep going over these material names. I’m trying to learn more. Hey, I like the outtakes/ misspeaking funny stuff in the last video to 👍👍😎👍👍
Let me add something:
We did a mini test about Purcell Prusiks on 9mm static rope.
Purcell Prusiks built from accessory cords.
Result:
Sterling accessory cord - works. Holds our weight, but can be released.
Blue water accessory cord- DO NOT USE. It is slipping and it is too stiff.
You guys could test that more scientifically. 😎
love watching your videos to question my decisions, only for you to arrive at numbers that validate exactly what I choose to carry (18' of powercord for gear anchors, 180cm quad for bolts, 240cm quad if i'm leading all the pitches)
Powercord is great for very long cordalettes for making anchors on unexposed bolts or equalizing 2 trees to do a mini static line anchor with a BFK which I use in crags like peterskill where many bolts are very far from the cliff edge or ice climbing tr anchors. It sucks a fat one for quads (I don’t like quads anyways and always opt for something else).
I carry accessory cord because I figure I can a) improvise anchors in weird situations as required (better than a sling), b) I can make climbing aids for someone who is maybe struggling (my buddy hurt his bicep one time on a multi and I had to improvise a rope ladder to help him get to the top). So it has its uses above a sling.
My local shop stocks Liros (regatta I think) in lots of sizes (3-6mm from memory). It is dyneema with what feels like a nylon sheath but might be poly. I have the 5mm slinging an old small hex and 6mm slinging a big one. I wonder how diameter changes how much mbs you loose in these types of fibers. It also stocks the beal 5.5mm aramid. Beal also has 5.5mm dyneema. These could potentially be light and still strong for a quad and the 6mm dyneema might be crazy. Maybe strong enough to use something that takes less material than a quad? You have access to other high tec fibers like this? I am in Europe so don’t know about sending things to test to you.
I'd love to see 7/64ths amsteel blue. Specifically for spinnaker lines. Actual breaking strength with a proper spliced eye.
I'd love to see 7/64ths amsteel blue. Specifically for spinnaker lines. Actual breaking strength with a proper spliced eye.
So you could use paracord for climbing. If it breaks at almost 20kN, should be super good enough.
Got to admit, all the data is a bit overwhelming. I did not know about these cords having cores that would slip. I hope none of my static accessory cord is like that. Now I am worried. I've always just melted the ends and it seemed fine.
I guess don't get high on your own supply don't apply when your hobby is highlining huh? (Your store is waaay to close to your slack snap machine 😅)
Looking at the core, i wonder if there's potential for putting splices in powercord to make a full strength loop.
In particular that might help the rope rescue guys using it to retain more strength in their back ties
I’ve been wondering how these compare to 5.5 titan cord?? 🤔
I’m tempted to make you a solid metal version of that pulley looking thing.
It would be interesting to see a comparison with the Beal aramid 5.5mm cord as well!
This is much more available in Europe and also it's the material used for the Beal Jammy, therefore suitable for prussik loops (assuming the knots dont slip easily on this cord, also would be a very interesting video)
"technora" is aramid though
no any new informations for me, just a ad for your shop?
Crazy work!!! Well done Ryan!!!
7mm Sterling has been my go to for a long time when setting trad anchors to TR off of for single pitch cragging days, fat compared to some other 7mm cords, but very supple and confidence inspiring.
For multipitch I have been using 20ft of 5.5mm Blue Water Dyneema cord or a 240cm Mammut Dyneema sling mostly. For multis with known bolted anchors 180cm Mammut Dyneema sling in pre-tied quad config.
sheath to core fracture - gets complex - depending on the "grip" ... lol...
UTS vs strain limits - it's confounding..
(same with composite combinations - ie. if the e-glass stretches (high strain) so that the backup ?? Carbon fibre/Kevlar/spectra (??lower strain) ?? reaches UTS first - is there any benefit. in the combination.
Sheathing for UV/friction resistance - here is a reason, But for strength ??? - should it be secured ??
I might go with spectra/dyneema webbing... (I have been kiting over the "decades" - I trust new lines - old ones... (kiting isn't life critical - normally)...)
Back it up for life critical use cases... (don't trust life on accessory cord x1...
Where I saw PowerCord first used was with high directionals for rescue/rope access - like TerrAdaptor or the SMC Vector. Especially if hiking into the backcountry, having lightweight, strong, compact cordage for when you need a 50ft back-tie guy rope for your high directional.
You said you wanted to know who buys VTX cord, well I did! I had bought some second-hand wild country friends (the old rigid ones) and some hexes off of eBay, and I used VTX cord in a double fishers loop to resling them since I have a phobia of used soft materials. I chose VTX over power cord because it was just a little bit thinner and I wasn’t sure how thin I was going to need it. Some of the smaller hexes had really thin holes to thread, and I wasn’t about to trust 5 mm cord to hold a whip. (6kn MBS!!!)
Love the information you put out as always!!
😅5:40
When from testing rope, toe testing the compressive structural strength of schedule pipe 🤣
Love this channel, yea never kniw what your gonna learn, and i learded that your rope can deform pioe 😆
8:12 now you got me thinking 🤔
With that said
Could you splice a second piece in to it from the side? Like have a Maine line, and then have a few extra tag line sliced in every few yards? Like ohh ,I don't know how to say it in rock climbing terms as this isn't really a thing that rock climers Doo. Would love to send a sample and sea if yea could make it out of this jacket rope instead of triple twist, it's a lobster fishing idea you literally just gave me😅
8:42 and that said, I'm kinda looking fer miles of rope😅
😅 11:27 what about a figure of 8😅 would that be better then a standard over hand knot fer this?? Just wondering, 🤔 I can imagine I'm knot the only one 🤣
curious if you’ve heard of blue water titan cord or if you’d ever do some tests of it, was told at an rei it’s for a quad anchor but I’m very hesitant to use it as one
titan is just slightly thinner v-tx! using it as a quad anchor is totally safe but you might just use a sling instead
Bravo.
Always very educational and interesting.
You are protecting lives and jobs.
I'm a big fan of Edelrids 6mm aramid cord. 20kN MBS and 24g/m and I feel a bit more confident in anchors that may see some abrasion.
LOVE the detailed numbers you provide! I have been wondering where the true benefits lie in the materials based on applications and have not been able to find much comparative test data. This helps A LOT to form that understanding better. Also, the rope end cutting/burning tip is awesome! I'll have to try that myself. My use for accessory cords comes in the form of friction hitches on static ropes for tree climbing so considering I'll be having my body weight loaded on my hitches for an extended period of time, its important to know as many details as possible.
Would love to see you do the same tests on Sterling TRC 6mm. I would imagine it ends up being the same results as the PowerCord but considering the fire resistant sheathing, it has me wondering if there's more to consider there? That's a popular cord being used for friction hitches lately in the space I mentioned so having some numbers there to actualize would be amazing.
This is really useful when I'm making decisions about what to build anchors from and the speadsheet sums it up really well. Thanks
Amazing vídeo Ryan, thank You so much for shedding some light on these things!!!
So question the only reason to buy the power cord quad over a 120 or 240 dynema is for rock abrasion resistance?
As for V-TX uses, I bought it to use as a pull cord. Still very light, but has utility in an emergency situation.
Lesson learned: if you're clipping to a quad anchor shelf, make sure to clip through two separate loops, not two strands of the same loop.
As someone who was also disappointed in the lack of information regarding accessory cord and someone who loves using powercord for Monopole anchors as well this was awesome.
have you ever tested 5 50 cord
I would like to thank those ropes for their sacrifice for science
Great video! Thank you for the great info!
i got a 5m cordelette like this, cause it can double up as friction (prusik) knot in rescue scenarios - foot step or munter mule. 180cm slings can't do that, though they're neat too
ps being so thin makes them grab skinny ropes great too. 6 or 7 mm nylon or polyester won't really work on say 9 mm rope
Blake's hitch or Ezelius hitch will handle 9mm on 9mm if you ever need to.
Fill the pipes with concrete to preven compression?
Catching that knot slipping 👀
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the PowerCord is the only one tested that is likely suitable for use as a prussik, due to its high heat resistance.
The nylon sheath will would melt exactly the same as any other nylon sheathed cord :)
That stuff is so stiff it would be terrible for a friction hitch. The nylon and polyester cords will certainly work better.
Have you ever tried titan cord?
Can you try a spoll of wire as rope
Well done, Ryan
Best vid in a bit. Good job.
Interesting experiments
Thanks Walt!
Is it possible to heat crimp the ends forcing the sheath to impregnate the core?
No.
@@matiascamprubi-soms7719thanks for the extremely well reasoned reply.
as in climbing weight is an issue, i would appreciate more testing on real life climbing stuff that is super good enoughand not overkill.
why do people in US use quad ankers out of so much heavy stuff for example.
Everything that holds 10KN is just good to go for me.
Why should i build anchors for 20KN, when i just need 8 ? 10 i have some safety margin.
you break so much stuff beyond any (for me) usefull range.
When you´re going on a zipline on 5,5mm cord, yeah nice, i wouldn´t do so, but i use 5mm cord all the time, where you guys allways use more bilky and heavier 6mm ...
First :D
In an alpine environment you sometimes need non sewn slings/cords. That are the situations in which I carry them.
On a multi pitch climb with proper belays I use sewn slings.