Commenting on an old video but.... Ever thought of using red locktite as glue? It sets hard "permanently" but if you applied heat to the bolt and get it to 250°c (500 freedom units) and it comes apart. Not saying replace the good glues but interesting properties if you wanted to eg 'glue' a sleeve bolt in but be able to do it up to lower torque and remove easily?
I’ve put hundreds of expanding sleeve bolts in for construction purposes, very cool to see how they interact with the rock or concrete. Thanks for putting in the effort
same, a bunch used for floor anchoring for guardrail and machine lockdown. I'm just a mechanic, so I only use em when the bosses put something new on the floor, but that's still a hundred or so every year.
Thank You for providing such good info on your videos. I've been a climber for 57 years and am quite informed on climbing safety and gear. I still learn new things from your videos! I really liked your video on BEER KNOTS. I've used the beer knot for over 40 years and knew they were stronger than water knot. Never tested it myself like you did. A lot of people that I climbed with didn't think it was that strong but now they are using it after you tested it. Thank you for that!
The first best knot for tied runners (our only long slings) that I learned in the valley as a dumb kid. Beer knot for the win, Walt Shipley taught and approved. Cheers.
@@brianwarshow129 Yep. I started using the beer knot in the late 70s early 80s. Before that I tied my slings with the grapevine/double fisherman knot. I really like the beer knot because there is no tails!
As a meatball railing installer and general screwup repair guy, I drill into concrete frequently when anchor bolts fail. I put a few strands of 12# insulated copper wire, and then drive in a stainless steel screw carefully until the fastener goes home. Don’t tell anyone
Great video. Thank you for bringing up proper spacing of any expansion type Bolt. I'm a structural designer for many types of buildings and one of the biggest mistakes that we see is not spacing expansion bolts properly. With a 2 3/4" Hilti kwik bolt I always make sure to space them at least 6" apart. 8 would be better. and no closer to the edge of a concrete slab than 3"
Just to add my $.02, bolt spacing is important for ALL types of anchors, not just expansion type bolts. Adhesive / glue-in anchors also require sufficient spacing as the concrete or rock can still fail in a cone shape and influence the other anchors nearby if they're not far enough apart. Expansion bolts are more sensitive to edge distance than adhesives because they apply outward pressure when torqued.
It's easy to explain why, too..... just shift fields a bit. Stone masons. How does one break a slab of even the hardest stone? You drill a line of holes and start driving wedges or pins in, and eventually the cracks generated by that force combine along the line and it just pops in half. How are too-closely spaced anchors any different from a mason's wedges?
I started climbing in Yosemite in the early 70s. The bolts we didn't hesitate to clip into with hardly a thought would rightfully appall you. Me too, looking back and after watching you guys the last few years.
ty so much for the visual with the bolt in the rock that you were holding around 18:50 SUPER helpful and REALY cool visual im really grateful you help on to that for us
I've followed the channel for a while now and have to say that you are going an excellent work with these videos! Even for a Finnish person you're not coming across as over confident. I love the way you're explaining your setups and caveats with the testing
I worked as a cave and canyon guide and there was nothing guides liked better than rigging up a load cell and a Tirfor or pneumatic ram and start testing anchors. When I was exploring a new cave or canyon I'd usually use a self drilling Terrier bolt. These are hammered in and can be pulled fairly easily leaving a hole you can over drill for a more permanent anchor later if required. For commercial trips we usually used glue in (ceramic epoxy) stainless steel anchors.
Sure, made it clear through the video and I have never even used any form of climbing equipment because I am not a climber. Its just interesting content to me and I love to watch people who care so much about what they do. Thanks for another great one!
Thank you 🙏🏽 For taking the time and showing the interest in putting safety to the top of the priorities. Close second being having fun of course ❤️🔥💯🤗
Love picking up little bits of info I can crossover to different things like hiking, camping and 4 wheeling. Thanks for sharing and all that goes into everything.
Awesome video as usual guys!!! I'm not replacing bolts on routes (yet...I'm thinking this will be my full retirement from climbing give-back-contribution-gig), but I occasionally climb on them. Thank you so much!
Watched all the way through and something reminded me of a time we were climbing granite and I got to a bolt about halfway up the route and had to have a break...... an what looked like a fairly typical rock face...... MOVED!!! The worst bit was that it was a relatively small area, about 18 inches across from what I remember. When I looked closer, there was a pretty faint line all the way round the edge of the piece that was moving, and it was a slightly different colour. On my way back down, I started seeing noticing these lines hiding all over the face of the route and unless you knew what to look for you just didn't see them. So we weren't just going to leave this death trap waiting to happen, we marked the route as not safe and decided to come back the following weekend with tools...... lots of tools as we had no idea how to get this bolt out (We did bring a glue in bolt, drills, etc from a work colleague who put up routes all the time). I actually started out around the edge of the area with a couple of pry bars and it took a grand total of about 15 minutes and the whole thing disappeared off the crag!!!! Definitely not expecting that!!! What was left in the hole was loads more of that lighter coloured rock..... a LOT of it and it was pretty crumbly. Just after that, we were back on the ground with a LOT of adrenaline coursing through us and definitely not wanting to be on that crag again. We did manage to collect enough of the rock to take to our colleague to have a look at. The end of the story was that he went to do some work on the route with his friends who do loads of bolting and after an assessment of the hole that we had left and the whole of the rest of that secting of crag, they basically spent a week removing every single bolt on the crag! They also found some similar AND worse (drilled straight into a softer seam...... how didn't the notice that the drill tool no time to drill the hole, compared to the rest?!?!?) examples of what we had found. To be honest, the rock face had plenty of natural places to put protecting so it never needed to be bolted in the first place. The crag is now designated bolt free and open again..... or at least if was 20 years ago last time I climbed. They basically bolted a crag just because they wanted to bolt a crag, not because the crag needed to be bolted in the first place! Not good and in this case, they could have got someone killed 🥺
Finger tight + degrees of rotation may actually be a better spec for a bolting procedure. A lot of variables can impact required torque to induce a compressove load. A torque spec can have a deviation of +-25 to 35% in actual clamping force. A lot of programable assembly tools i have tested (ingersol-rand qx series for example) offer programming options to counter act this like: tighten to said very low i.e. torque, then continue a set degree of rotation
I made it to the end and would watch a video twice the length. Great video with a lot of outstanding information. Keep up the amazing work and look forward to the new video when the store is up and running.
Thanks for all the input and hard work you put into these videos. Even if it were 40 minutes, it would compare to the amount of time and dedication you give. Was happy to stick around haha. Thanks
I made it to the end of the video about bolts and the 40 break tests! I actually enjoyed that despite what you may expect. very informational and well made. :)
Thanks to the guys who open and maintain climbing ways in France and everywhere else. That's one thing I could never do. At the same time it's been a long time since I climbed a cliff. 20 years old now, following a serious accident that happened to a friend. Most of the equipment you show here was not used, the equipment was more rudimentary. Sorry if bad English, I'm French.
Thanks for all of the great videos and info! I love that you mentioned "there no prefect bolt." For folks who can't imagine why someone might want to place a shorter bolt, here's a scenario: hand drilling into hard granite in Wilderness! I know that everyone breaks the law and takes their power-drill into wilderness, but for those of us replacing (or placing) legally in Wilderness, using a hand drill, that shorter hole depth is a huge time and energy saver that allows far more bolts to get replaced. That's my two cents on why a shorter bolt might be the right call and why it is so valuable to have testing data like what's given on this channel. Thanks!
I realise this is probably very complicated to do, especially with all of the store prep right now. But it would be really cool if you could have machines that cyclically load gear. Just running in the background with a basic security camera-type recording to see when and how they fail to see how well they did. Could make a cool backdrop. Sometimes I look at these tests and wonder how representative they really are. Something that had a high breaking tension could conceivably do badly with cyclical loads as you alluded to in the vid. Maybe that is what fixe gave up on testing.
I love this channel. Excellent quality videos and I can tell you care about what you do. I just statred indoor climbing and I look forward to getting out and using some of the knowledge I've gained here. Still a ton of gear fear but I'm working on it. Much love from northern ontario 🤟
Nice issue to cover, very informative. Great work and nice editing too. As a former GC and climber, it comes to mind that in wet, anoxic conditions, many types SS will corrode fairly quickly. I wonder if the method of using epoxies is still a better option, maybe even a mixed mode of expanding anchors with epoxy. As for the "unscrewing" issue, a drop of thread locker should fix that issue.
Randomly found your channel when i obviously dont(& physically cant😂) climb or anything. Made it through to the end because i just found it fascinating from a science and testing perspective to see how gear works & fails, but also the factors/environment of climbing impact the gear failing too. Now to spam watch the rest of similar test videos on your channel, just because 😅.
I am one of the industrial users, can confirm, we don’t read the packaging either. Have had to replace plenty of zinc plated concrete anchors. Blown holes are the worst, occasionally get lucky using a larger anchor, but usually have to make a steel plate that the item bolts to, then has at least the depth of the hole x2 away new anchor spots.
Planning on establishing my first ever sport route in the next couple of weeks, just came home from the preinspection of the wall, found a gem, pretty much a sub sektor for the neighbouring sektor, currently super filthy but good quality rock and hard slab which leads to medium to hard overhang. There is space for 3-5 good routes, and a really nice king line in the center. Currently binge watching your videos so i can get every bit of info i need. Im planning on using buehler glue-ins with fischer t300. The bolting in the neighbouring sektor is terrible, cross loaded binners, loose bolts, weird anchors. I want this wall to be perfect. Its got great potential and with your knowledge im confident ittl turn out great.
Oh, ive done some trad first accents. Im no noob, and i work in trades so i know how to use all the equipmemt and materials for glue ins, im really hyped to do it in a vertical scenario though.
I signed up (and subed) out of interest and to help you guys out! :) I actually used to instruct rock climbing in Alberta (many years ago) but I am to old and crippled ot climb now. We used to put bots in with a 2 pound hammer and a Start Drill :) I also have installed countless thousands of anchours in concrete floors walls and ceilings :) as part of my job(s) ... Stainless Steel Anchours are VERY rare, I'd estimate under 1/2% .. The only time we used them in construction is AFTER zinc plated ones failed outdoors (in an unacceptably short time) , or in caustic environments, like if they were to be exposed to acid or sea water
In for a penny, in for 20:36. My first "modern" bolting jobs (after the long-ago 1-1/4" long by 1/4" Rawl split shank hand-drilled jobs with those beautiful razor-thin hangers) were five-piece, but now I'm mostly using stainless 3-3/4"L x 3/8"d wedge bolts with exterior threads. I'd love to see side-by-side comparisons of the two types, the five-piece and the wedgies...
The cone shaped of the pulled out bolt is impacted by your testing apparatus pressing down on the rock around it. You can see how the legs are holding down parts of the fractures in the clips. The cone is definitely bigger but it’s hard to tell how much the pulling rig is supporting the rock around the bolts in some of those tests
Thanks for all the great videos. My preference has been 1/2 inch 304 wedge bolts with 1/2 inch stainless fixe hangers for many years, Powers bolts were never my first choice for many of the reasons you demonstrated. Great work guys keep it up!!
Watched it all. The ultimate bolt I will have to wait till unoptanium is discovered. Till then, decay will happen, problems replacing will happen, and the bolting bible will need to be updated. Long live Ryan’s quest to know everything about bolting rocks
Would you please do a test of the Scott's locking bowline? Also would love to see the variations on the normal vs cowboy bowline. I've been using the Scott locking bowline for climbing for a bit and it seems like the perfect solution, no slip, easy to tie, untie, check, doesn't leave a knot like the 8, no ring loading risk (supposedly).
We've been successful removing 5 piece bolts with a 9mm tap to thread the 3/8 sleeve about 5 threads. Then you can pull the sleeve with your favorite puller with a 9mm adapter.
@@HowNOT2 We've pulled out bolts from the 70s in Oklahoma and Texas with this. The biggest trick is to get it to break loose from the rock. After tapping, retread the bolt into the cone and smack it down. Then thread the puller and wiggle the sleeve out.
I would imagine that originally they were 5 pieces, with just the top and bottom sleeves, cone, washer, and main bolt perhaps (just a guess), but then the extra parts were added to improve reliability or some other quality of the product?
19:45 .. What about Epoxy "Chemical" ancours?? I realize the curing time would make them awkward in an actual climb, But if it's a rock you climb often (like in instructing) cure time would not be impotent.
For removing those bolts when stuck or rusty the hilti TE - CX drill bits are awesome fro drilling reinforced concrete. Don't really notice that you've hit rebar might be worth trying they should cut the steel reasonably well. As a bonus they drill really fast compared to other bits, definitely the best I've used in concrete and rock.ill have to see if I can get a chance for an experiment. I also think they'd do a good job drilling out glue ins if you drilled down the centre of the bolt with a bit for steel first
Hi Ryan, would there be any possible way to test old, rusty 1/4 inchers? It is always "exciting" to run into them in the wild. I undertand it would be impossible(?) to remove one, then test it later... but maybe someone could seek some out in the wild and perform in-siteu tests (and subsequently replace the bolt). I would be willing to throw a couple hundred bucks down, and to mayeb even participate if such tests were to happen around central california (Pinnacles, Yosemite)
Get in touch with me (Bobby) on MP or Bobbyhutton1989 on IG. I am in Nor Cal. we did a video testing the 5/16" button heads, but haven't found a suitable spot to test the 1/4" version.
Interesting. I just installed a couple hundred zinc plated expansion bolts in an exterior application. But, they were 5/8” x10, I’m still confident in the install lasting my lifetime, and stainless would have been heart stoppingly expensive.
The post of your brace is creating stress risers and leading to a lower failure force on your rocks. You can tell because the breaks go up to or very close to the stand legs. You should follow up with your local geologist. Someone who studies or teaches petrography or mineralogy.
Regarding the granite that failed with the rock in tension, looks like a bit of weathering. Geologist here, not climber. I heard climber hammer out the rock prior to bolting. That makes sense. However, all exposed rock will the somewhat weathered, except for fresh rockfall, and even then there probably were some factures previously, with associated weathering.
The original short 3/8 bolt was exactly 5 pieces excluding the washer. I still have a couple Rawl plated ones. The 1/2" ones remove relatively easily. I have removed hundreds, placed hundreds also. They would not sell commercially if they were that difficult to place. You guys are a bit jaded because every thing is so strong. Anything above 25 KN in tension is gravy. it would be good to seek the 25 KN if placed in a roof. Like what you guys do. keep it up.
What torque are these 9-pieces supposed to be installed with? That is crazy how those can just unscrew themselves, it must be because the crush bushing thing protects the sleeve & wedge parts from actually deforming. On the 4-piece flush heads we have in Oz, the sleeve & wedge nut usually all deform and spinners don't just unscrew because they're all seized up (that I've ever heard of).
From the manual, it depends on the width and material. The 3/8" 304 variety used to be 12 ft-lbs but is now 18. When I first started bolting I installed 40 of them in granite. i have had to tighten every single one after evey winter and I just had to replace 2 of them bc the bolt started spinning in the hole. I have installed over 200 wedge bolts on the same wall with only a handfull of spining hangers. Super frustrating to replace your own bolts when you did all the research and followed the best advice available.
I think you should try to get Greg Barnes on the show. He can talk about the ASCA and what it does, but also it would be interesting to hear you guys discuss what hardware people should probably be using in different areas. I know he's not very fond of concrete screws for example.
The 5 piece sleeve and cone can be extracted efficiently with a long tap. Does this vid imply the Power Stud (SD4 or SD6) is preferred in granite? It was hypothesized that the new knurling or texture DeWalt has added to the expansion cone on the SD6, in granite, is preventing the expansion clip from continuing to progress down the cone. Other manufacturers use much less aggressive texturing. Could you compare 316 SS stud anchors with the aggressive knurling like the Power Stud SD6 with other manufacturers that have no or less agreesive texturing on the cone. Or maybe even polish it down with a wire wheel and see if there's a difference?
We tested the SD6 in a video published in 2021. We weren't impressed. Personally I use the regular 304 SS power-stud (07315-pwr for example) as 304 has proven to be more than adequate for the environment I bolt in. But they also make a 316 version, again power-stud no suffix. As I am sure you know, not all granite is good enough for wedge bolts, for example the rock at the top of the lost arrow spire was soft enough to easily extract 1/2" wedge bolts. They didn't fail in tension but they pulled out in tension at a 1/4 of the force they should have. those were power-studs I believe. Testing those different studs could be interesting.
8:39 i use these bolts as tie down points in concrete... like what they are made for. Using products outside of the companys parameters then getting mad when it doesnt work for your scenario is weird
Yeah and for every 1 bolt sold for climbing I bet a minimum of 10,000 are sold for it's intended purpose. Climbing is a tiny hobby, it's wrong to assume that everyone is willing to sink millions into testing and liability insurance just to cater to it.
You say there isn't a unicorn bolt but I guess I missed something because when watching your glue in twisted steel bolts I didn't really note the con of them. I'm not a bolter but would love to one day (hard to do here in Victoria, Australia) so would love to know where those aren't suitable.
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What is the highest kilo newton result you've ever measured for any part of a climbing protection system?
The 8mm twist bolts from the recent recent.
Commenting on an old video but.... Ever thought of using red locktite as glue? It sets hard "permanently" but if you applied heat to the bolt and get it to 250°c (500 freedom units) and it comes apart.
Not saying replace the good glues but interesting properties if you wanted to eg 'glue' a sleeve bolt in but be able to do it up to lower torque and remove easily?
for the algorithm gods... got to the end of 40 brake tests ;)
and as Ryan suggested, you shall have your upvote ☺️
I'm never going to go rock climbing and I watched to the end.
Maybe discussion between us is better for the Algo... maybe
I still don't know why I watch the whole thing. I don't go rock climbing.
@@AlexDresko just start!!
I’ve put hundreds of expanding sleeve bolts in for construction purposes, very cool to see how they interact with the rock or concrete. Thanks for putting in the effort
same, a bunch used for floor anchoring for guardrail and machine lockdown. I'm just a mechanic, so I only use em when the bosses put something new on the floor, but that's still a hundred or so every year.
Watched to the end and loved every minute of it! Thanks for all the work on this stuff guys!
Thank You for providing such good info on your videos.
I've been a climber for 57 years and am quite informed on climbing safety and gear. I still learn new things from your videos!
I really liked your video on BEER KNOTS. I've used the beer knot for over 40 years and knew they were stronger than water knot. Never tested it myself like you did.
A lot of people that I climbed with didn't think it was that strong but now they are using it after you tested it.
Thank you for that!
The first best knot for tied runners (our only long slings) that I learned in the valley as a dumb kid. Beer knot for the win, Walt Shipley taught and approved. Cheers.
@@brianwarshow129 Yep. I started using the beer knot in the late 70s early 80s. Before that I tied my slings with the grapevine/double fisherman knot.
I really like the beer knot because there is no tails!
Thanks HowNot2 for the heart! If you ever were on SuperTopo or mountain project my screen name was Cosmicccragsman.
@@dwainwarren2952 Exactly, no tails. It worked and is elegant. A groovy knot, for sure.
As a meatball railing installer and general screwup repair guy, I drill into concrete frequently when anchor bolts fail. I put a few strands of 12# insulated copper wire, and then drive in a stainless steel screw carefully until the fastener goes home. Don’t tell anyone
Don't think I'll ever bolt anything, but it sure helps me evaluate the routes I'm climbing from a safety perspective 😊
Great video. Thank you for bringing up proper spacing of any expansion type Bolt. I'm a structural designer for many types of buildings and one of the biggest mistakes that we see is not spacing expansion bolts properly. With a 2 3/4" Hilti kwik bolt I always make sure to space them at least 6" apart. 8 would be better. and no closer to the edge of a concrete slab than 3"
Just to add my $.02, bolt spacing is important for ALL types of anchors, not just expansion type bolts. Adhesive / glue-in anchors also require sufficient spacing as the concrete or rock can still fail in a cone shape and influence the other anchors nearby if they're not far enough apart. Expansion bolts are more sensitive to edge distance than adhesives because they apply outward pressure when torqued.
It's easy to explain why, too..... just shift fields a bit. Stone masons. How does one break a slab of even the hardest stone? You drill a line of holes and start driving wedges or pins in, and eventually the cracks generated by that force combine along the line and it just pops in half.
How are too-closely spaced anchors any different from a mason's wedges?
@@mtbfreeWas just about to say the same exact same thing. And it's universal for all types of materials too, be it wood, concrete, masonry, steel etc.
I started climbing in Yosemite in the early 70s. The bolts we didn't hesitate to clip into with hardly a thought would rightfully appall you. Me too, looking back and after watching you guys the last few years.
The trick is to just not fall...
@@timseguine2 And remember "It's not the fall that kills you.. It's the sudden stop!"
@@JohnSwampthingRaeYeah I forgot. So if you do happen to fall, just keep falling until you can slow down safely.
ty so much for the visual with the bolt in the rock that you were holding around 18:50 SUPER helpful and REALY cool visual im really grateful you help on to that for us
The break tests were fascinating -all 40 of them! And that visual of the way the force is distributed through the rock was also excellent.
I don't even climb and i watched to the end. you guys do 2 of my favorite things, break stuff and collect data and i am here for it.
This is why I love the internet. The depth you chaps go to is commendable!
As someone who doesn't, and won't, climb I'm always so amused that I enjoy these videos anyway.
Agreed, 👍
I've followed the channel for a while now and have to say that you are going an excellent work with these videos! Even for a Finnish person you're not coming across as over confident. I love the way you're explaining your setups and caveats with the testing
I worked as a cave and canyon guide and there was nothing guides liked better than rigging up a load cell and a Tirfor or pneumatic ram and start testing anchors. When I was exploring a new cave or canyon I'd usually use a self drilling Terrier bolt. These are hammered in and can be pulled fairly easily leaving a hole you can over drill for a more permanent anchor later if required. For commercial trips we usually used glue in (ceramic epoxy) stainless steel anchors.
💯👏🏽
BEST Video! Fast moving, lots of info, and, as usual, very entertaining!!! Thanks guys!
Sure, made it clear through the video and I have never even used any form of climbing equipment because I am not a climber. Its just interesting content to me and I love to watch people who care so much about what they do. Thanks for another great one!
Thank you 🙏🏽
For taking the time and showing the interest in putting safety to the top of the priorities. Close second being having fun of course ❤️🔥💯🤗
Love picking up little bits of info I can crossover to different things like hiking, camping and 4 wheeling. Thanks for sharing and all that goes into everything.
Awesome video as usual guys!!! I'm not replacing bolts on routes (yet...I'm thinking this will be my full retirement from climbing give-back-contribution-gig), but I occasionally climb on them. Thank you so much!
Watched all the way through and something reminded me of a time we were climbing granite and I got to a bolt about halfway up the route and had to have a break...... an what looked like a fairly typical rock face...... MOVED!!! The worst bit was that it was a relatively small area, about 18 inches across from what I remember. When I looked closer, there was a pretty faint line all the way round the edge of the piece that was moving, and it was a slightly different colour. On my way back down, I started seeing noticing these lines hiding all over the face of the route and unless you knew what to look for you just didn't see them. So we weren't just going to leave this death trap waiting to happen, we marked the route as not safe and decided to come back the following weekend with tools...... lots of tools as we had no idea how to get this bolt out (We did bring a glue in bolt, drills, etc from a work colleague who put up routes all the time). I actually started out around the edge of the area with a couple of pry bars and it took a grand total of about 15 minutes and the whole thing disappeared off the crag!!!! Definitely not expecting that!!! What was left in the hole was loads more of that lighter coloured rock..... a LOT of it and it was pretty crumbly. Just after that, we were back on the ground with a LOT of adrenaline coursing through us and definitely not wanting to be on that crag again. We did manage to collect enough of the rock to take to our colleague to have a look at. The end of the story was that he went to do some work on the route with his friends who do loads of bolting and after an assessment of the hole that we had left and the whole of the rest of that secting of crag, they basically spent a week removing every single bolt on the crag! They also found some similar AND worse (drilled straight into a softer seam...... how didn't the notice that the drill tool no time to drill the hole, compared to the rest?!?!?) examples of what we had found. To be honest, the rock face had plenty of natural places to put protecting so it never needed to be bolted in the first place. The crag is now designated bolt free and open again..... or at least if was 20 years ago last time I climbed. They basically bolted a crag just because they wanted to bolt a crag, not because the crag needed to be bolted in the first place! Not good and in this case, they could have got someone killed 🥺
Finger tight + degrees of rotation may actually be a better spec for a bolting procedure. A lot of variables can impact required torque to induce a compressove load. A torque spec can have a deviation of +-25 to 35% in actual clamping force.
A lot of programable assembly tools i have tested (ingersol-rand qx series for example) offer programming options to counter act this like: tighten to said very low i.e. torque, then continue a set degree of rotation
I made it to the end and would watch a video twice the length. Great video with a lot of outstanding information. Keep up the amazing work and look forward to the new video when the store is up and running.
that test piece with conic rock - that is just priceless artifact🎉
Thanks for all the input and hard work you put into these videos. Even if it were 40 minutes, it would compare to the amount of time and dedication you give. Was happy to stick around haha. Thanks
I made it to the end of the video about bolts and the 40 break tests! I actually enjoyed that despite what you may expect. very informational and well made. :)
Thanks to the guys who open and maintain climbing ways in France and everywhere else.
That's one thing I could never do. At the same time it's been a long time since I climbed a cliff. 20 years old now, following a serious accident that happened to a friend.
Most of the equipment you show here was not used, the equipment was more rudimentary.
Sorry if bad English, I'm French.
Excellent work guys … yes I would like to know about this unicorn bolt as well… yes I made it to the end to hear about 40 break tests with bolts
Thanks for all of the great videos and info!
I love that you mentioned "there no prefect bolt."
For folks who can't imagine why someone might want to place a shorter bolt, here's a scenario: hand drilling into hard granite in Wilderness!
I know that everyone breaks the law and takes their power-drill into wilderness, but for those of us replacing (or placing) legally in Wilderness, using a hand drill, that shorter hole depth is a huge time and energy saver that allows far more bolts to get replaced.
That's my two cents on why a shorter bolt might be the right call and why it is so valuable to have testing data like what's given on this channel. Thanks!
I tune in to see what Bobby's hair is doing today
I realise this is probably very complicated to do, especially with all of the store prep right now. But it would be really cool if you could have machines that cyclically load gear. Just running in the background with a basic security camera-type recording to see when and how they fail to see how well they did. Could make a cool backdrop. Sometimes I look at these tests and wonder how representative they really are. Something that had a high breaking tension could conceivably do badly with cyclical loads as you alluded to in the vid. Maybe that is what fixe gave up on testing.
I love this channel. Excellent quality videos and I can tell you care about what you do. I just statred indoor climbing and I look forward to getting out and using some of the knowledge I've gained here. Still a ton of gear fear but I'm working on it. Much love from northern ontario 🤟
I made it all the way! 🎉 nice tight edit to keep that a reasonable length, Ryan
Made it to the end. Very informative (and amusing) content, thanks!
I got to the end of the video, I always do lol I love these videos
Made it all the way through! Love the info you guys put out. Nobody else will tell us what is Super Good Enough.
Nice issue to cover, very informative. Great work and nice editing too. As a former GC and climber, it comes to mind that in wet, anoxic conditions, many types SS will corrode fairly quickly. I wonder if the method of using epoxies is still a better option, maybe even a mixed mode of expanding anchors with epoxy. As for the "unscrewing" issue, a drop of thread locker should fix that issue.
watched to the end, commenting to prove engagement
Always such good info, really appreciate how thorough and balanced you are in putting all the testing together.
This video must've been so expensive to make, thanks ryan and bobby!
Awesome video, as always. Thank you for summarizing all of that!
Love the work you guys do, very insightful and a big help for my crag project.
Made it! Good info as always guys.
you guys are amazing. I follow your bolting advice like the "Gospels"
I'm not a climber but I still find your work fascinating and thorough!
I'm not a climber but I enoyed the commentary and general info. Well done 👍 I particularly appreciate the spall 😎
20:28 I think the twisted glue in P is the best option for most cases?
Some interesting results there boys, keep up the good work.
Thankf for holding on to that rock to show us!! Is was a nice visualization of how the rock distributes the load.
Very informative to the end. Thank you guys.
Randomly found your channel when i obviously dont(& physically cant😂) climb or anything.
Made it through to the end because i just found it fascinating from a science and testing perspective to see how gear works & fails, but also the factors/environment of climbing impact the gear failing too.
Now to spam watch the rest of similar test videos on your channel, just because 😅.
INCREDIBLE WORK! Thank you so much for doing this! 🤩
This dedication to the craft is friggen unmatched. 🙌
I am one of the industrial users, can confirm, we don’t read the packaging either. Have had to replace plenty of zinc plated concrete anchors. Blown holes are the worst, occasionally get lucky using a larger anchor, but usually have to make a steel plate that the item bolts to, then has at least the depth of the hole x2 away new anchor spots.
Planning on establishing my first ever sport route in the next couple of weeks, just came home from the preinspection of the wall, found a gem, pretty much a sub sektor for the neighbouring sektor, currently super filthy but good quality rock and hard slab which leads to medium to hard overhang. There is space for 3-5 good routes, and a really nice king line in the center. Currently binge watching your videos so i can get every bit of info i need. Im planning on using buehler glue-ins with fischer t300. The bolting in the neighbouring sektor is terrible, cross loaded binners, loose bolts, weird anchors. I want this wall to be perfect. Its got great potential and with your knowledge im confident ittl turn out great.
Oh, ive done some trad first accents. Im no noob, and i work in trades so i know how to use all the equipmemt and materials for glue ins, im really hyped to do it in a vertical scenario though.
feel free to reach out on one of my social media's if you have specific questions. enjoy the experience -Bobby
@@HowNOT2 thanks bobby,much appreciated.
I learned a lot from this video! I'll be changing how I bolt things.
I signed up (and subed) out of interest and to help you guys out! :) I actually used to instruct rock climbing in Alberta (many years ago) but I am to old and crippled ot climb now. We used to put bots in with a 2 pound hammer and a Start Drill :)
I also have installed countless thousands of anchours in concrete floors walls and ceilings :) as part of my job(s) ... Stainless Steel Anchours are VERY rare, I'd estimate under 1/2% ..
The only time we used them in construction is AFTER zinc plated ones failed outdoors (in an unacceptably short time) , or in caustic environments, like if they were to be exposed to acid or sea water
Got to the end! Excellent edutainment!
In for a penny, in for 20:36. My first "modern" bolting jobs (after the long-ago 1-1/4" long by 1/4" Rawl split shank hand-drilled jobs with those beautiful razor-thin hangers) were five-piece, but now I'm mostly using stainless 3-3/4"L x 3/8"d wedge bolts with exterior threads. I'd love to see side-by-side comparisons of the two types, the five-piece and the wedgies...
Well done. Made it through the whole thing. :)
The cone shaped of the pulled out bolt is impacted by your testing apparatus pressing down on the rock around it. You can see how the legs are holding down parts of the fractures in the clips. The cone is definitely bigger but it’s hard to tell how much the pulling rig is supporting the rock around the bolts in some of those tests
Thanks for all the great videos. My preference has been 1/2 inch 304 wedge bolts with 1/2 inch stainless fixe hangers for many years, Powers bolts were never my first choice for many of the reasons you demonstrated. Great work guys keep it up!!
Very good work guys!
Watched it all. The ultimate bolt I will have to wait till unoptanium is discovered. Till then, decay will happen, problems replacing will happen, and the bolting bible will need to be updated. Long live Ryan’s quest to know everything about bolting rocks
Fantastic work guys.
Would you please do a test of the Scott's locking bowline? Also would love to see the variations on the normal vs cowboy bowline. I've been using the Scott locking bowline for climbing for a bit and it seems like the perfect solution, no slip, easy to tie, untie, check, doesn't leave a knot like the 8, no ring loading risk (supposedly).
Enjoyed every minute of it
We've been successful removing 5 piece bolts with a 9mm tap to thread the 3/8 sleeve about 5 threads. Then you can pull the sleeve with your favorite puller with a 9mm adapter.
How rusty can they be before they don't work? It sounds like a good idea for the ones i replaced which still had the sleeve mostly in tact.
@@HowNOT2 We've pulled out bolts from the 70s in Oklahoma and Texas with this. The biggest trick is to get it to break loose from the rock. After tapping, retread the bolt into the cone and smack it down. Then thread the puller and wiggle the sleeve out.
I made it to the end - great data as usual!
I would imagine that originally they were 5 pieces, with just the top and bottom sleeves, cone, washer, and main bolt perhaps (just a guess), but then the extra parts were added to improve reliability or some other quality of the product?
19:45 .. What about Epoxy "Chemical" ancours?? I realize the curing time would make them awkward in an actual climb, But if it's a rock you climb often (like in instructing) cure time would not be impotent.
Have they tested drilling a new hole for a bolt near an old hole that is empty. Is there a preferred distance from a empty hole?
I don't know what you mean, that video was entertaining until the very end^^
For removing those bolts when stuck or rusty the hilti TE - CX drill bits are awesome fro drilling reinforced concrete. Don't really notice that you've hit rebar might be worth trying they should cut the steel reasonably well. As a bonus they drill really fast compared to other bits, definitely the best I've used in concrete and rock.ill have to see if I can get a chance for an experiment. I also think they'd do a good job drilling out glue ins if you drilled down the centre of the bolt with a bit for steel first
Great video. Thanks guys.
Hi Ryan, would there be any possible way to test old, rusty 1/4 inchers? It is always "exciting" to run into them in the wild. I undertand it would be impossible(?) to remove one, then test it later... but maybe someone could seek some out in the wild and perform in-siteu tests (and subsequently replace the bolt). I would be willing to throw a couple hundred bucks down, and to mayeb even participate if such tests were to happen around central california (Pinnacles, Yosemite)
Get in touch with me (Bobby) on MP or Bobbyhutton1989 on IG. I am in Nor Cal. we did a video testing the 5/16" button heads, but haven't found a suitable spot to test the 1/4" version.
Interesting. I just installed a couple hundred zinc plated expansion bolts in an exterior application. But, they were 5/8” x10, I’m still confident in the install lasting my lifetime, and stainless would have been heart stoppingly expensive.
So, i dont know how expensive the glue used for glue ins is as a non climber but have you tested expansion bolts with glue backup?
The post of your brace is creating stress risers and leading to a lower failure force on your rocks. You can tell because the breaks go up to or very close to the stand legs.
You should follow up with your local geologist. Someone who studies or teaches petrography or mineralogy.
Made it! Love the videos!!!
Which ones are the best to maintain and/or have the highest chance of reusing holes?
Thanks for the infotainment!
謝謝！
Keep on pulling out boys. Never too many.
Regarding the granite that failed with the rock in tension, looks like a bit of weathering. Geologist here, not climber.
I heard climber hammer out the rock prior to bolting. That makes sense.
However, all exposed rock will the somewhat weathered, except for fresh rockfall, and even then there probably were some factures previously, with associated weathering.
Nice video, made it to the end.
Wanted to subscribe to the newsletter, but it wasn't working on the website.
The original short 3/8 bolt was exactly 5 pieces excluding the washer. I still have a couple Rawl plated ones. The 1/2" ones remove relatively easily. I have removed hundreds, placed hundreds also. They would not sell commercially if they were that difficult to place. You guys are a bit jaded because every thing is so strong. Anything above 25 KN in tension is gravy. it would be good to seek the 25 KN if placed in a roof. Like what you guys do. keep it up.
Great stuff as always
What torque are these 9-pieces supposed to be installed with? That is crazy how those can just unscrew themselves, it must be because the crush bushing thing protects the sleeve & wedge parts from actually deforming. On the 4-piece flush heads we have in Oz, the sleeve & wedge nut usually all deform and spinners don't just unscrew because they're all seized up (that I've ever heard of).
From the manual, it depends on the width and material. The 3/8" 304 variety used to be 12 ft-lbs but is now 18.
When I first started bolting I installed 40 of them in granite. i have had to tighten every single one after evey winter and I just had to replace 2 of them bc the bolt started spinning in the hole.
I have installed over 200 wedge bolts on the same wall with only a handfull of spining hangers.
Super frustrating to replace your own bolts when you did all the research and followed the best advice available.
@@HowNOT2 super frustrating! Seems like they don't handle cyclical loading or freeze/thaw cycles well. Shame you had to find that out the hard way
Great vid as always
Interesting 40. So, have you's tried the 5 piece stainless in various rock types, with the hole set & sealed using resin? It so how did they do.
I think you should try to get Greg Barnes on the show. He can talk about the ASCA and what it does, but also it would be interesting to hear you guys discuss what hardware people should probably be using in different areas. I know he's not very fond of concrete screws for example.
This seems like a really great advert for those bolts tbh
The 5 piece sleeve and cone can be extracted efficiently with a long tap.
Does this vid imply the Power Stud (SD4 or SD6) is preferred in granite?
It was hypothesized that the new knurling or texture DeWalt has added to the expansion cone on the SD6, in granite, is preventing the expansion clip from continuing to progress down the cone. Other manufacturers use much less aggressive texturing.
Could you compare 316 SS stud anchors with the aggressive knurling like the Power Stud SD6 with other manufacturers that have no or less agreesive texturing on the cone. Or maybe even polish it down with a wire wheel and see if there's a difference?
We tested the SD6 in a video published in 2021. We weren't impressed. Personally I use the regular 304 SS power-stud (07315-pwr for example) as 304 has proven to be more than adequate for the environment I bolt in. But they also make a 316 version, again power-stud no suffix.
As I am sure you know, not all granite is good enough for wedge bolts, for example the rock at the top of the lost arrow spire was soft enough to easily extract 1/2" wedge bolts. They didn't fail in tension but they pulled out in tension at a 1/4 of the force they should have. those were power-studs I believe.
Testing those different studs could be interesting.
I heard recently of using cams in tension for a slack line…
They pulled brick out of the building
Test using anchor setting epoxy you can achieve some crazy strength but curious to see just how strong compared to traditional type anchors.
not a climber but I use anchors in construction all the time, other than cure time how does epoxy anchors work.
8:39 i use these bolts as tie down points in concrete... like what they are made for. Using products outside of the companys parameters then getting mad when it doesnt work for your scenario is weird
Yeah and for every 1 bolt sold for climbing I bet a minimum of 10,000 are sold for it's intended purpose. Climbing is a tiny hobby, it's wrong to assume that everyone is willing to sink millions into testing and liability insurance just to cater to it.
You say there isn't a unicorn bolt but I guess I missed something because when watching your glue in twisted steel bolts I didn't really note the con of them.
I'm not a bolter but would love to one day (hard to do here in Victoria, Australia) so would love to know where those aren't suitable.