@@10MinuteWorkshop You're welcome. Your process helps us buy tools. It's too easy to make impulse buys. What's needed, especially for this money, is a methodical approach and I completely agree that it we fly up to the peak of excitement initially with a new tool, the into the through of niggles until we rise up and plateau off, hopefully in a good state!
I brought the AC254TS and it is great. It can be small or made bigger and most importantly the noise was low and extraction was good. Thanks for how thorough you are- you have a way infront of the camera.
I do exactly what you do for a living. I've done it for 40 years. The best portable cordless table saw I have found is the dewalt 8-1/4" 60 volt. I think its a 54 volt in the uk. Its precise, quiet, very good on dust collection. I have been using it in houses for the last three years. Zero problems. Hope this helps.
I have had this saw for years myself and am a,axed at how far battery technology has come over the years. I also have the larger DeWalt but find myself using the smaller battery one more often even when I have power at hand. When paired with the DeWalt roller stand it really is just do portable and quiet. When paired with a Bosch dust bag it does well even without a dust collector. While not intended I’ve found the DeWalt saw will even run a dado stack at least up to about 3/8” plywood; though I usually only run a couple 7 1/4” blades with a spacer which perfectly fits 5mm plywood, which is about the only affordable plywood left, but us good enough for drawer bottoms.
I am so glad that you are doing this. I hope that it ticks all the same boxes for me. I am a fitted furniture maker, working out of a tiny single garage. I love making small, very precise things and need something quiet and with good dust extraction. So I will follow your videos and hope to aquire one in the near future.
After hankering after a cast iron top table saw for more years than I care to mention i managed to pickup the Axminster AW254TS second hand in excellent condition and then bought the sliding table attachment for it. After a LOT of playing around and excellent support from Axminster I got it setup pretty well and overall am very pleased with it for my small shop.
As I saw this saw's introduction, I immediately thought of your table saw video and that this would be perfect for your workshop. You can also build wonderful things without such an expensive saw but I think you can enjoy and make the best out of it, too :)
I’ve been talking to few kitchen fitters about this saw ( myself being one as well) but we are all being put off by the price, so to see a good review from yourself might sway or even confirm our doubts about this product. Looking forward to seeing it.
Look forward to getting my hands on it! I agree, it’s top money for a ‘site’ saw - especially when you compare it to the likes of the Milwaukee and Hikoki cordless - but in my brief time with it, it seems a much better product, and much better suited to finished cuts rather than, say, 600mm rips in OSB, which is where I feel the others are pitching themselves. We’ll see, when I actually get my hands on it. 👍👍
Hi Peter, I have been watching your videos for a while now and I must say they are very informative. It was watching your videos that got me hooked on the Festool Quality. I have just taken delivery of the CSC SYS 50 this week, and I absolutely love it! Like yourself I am space restricted and it's super compact portability and accuracy is fantastic. I have also got the trolley/table on back order. Looking forward to your full review. Jeff Hawkes.
Thanks Jeff! Looking forwards to getting mine! I didn't go for the trolley as I want to make my own cabinet for it, but the trolley looked like a fantastic and versatile base. 👍
Your criterion for tablesaw choices are spot on.However,my friend,you need a bigger, more size friendly outerbuilding.I love your shop and all you've done with it.I sell Festool where I work and a few of these saws are here for evaluation and are generally liked.Cant wait for you to receive it and your honest review.
Mine arrived earlier this week after a few weeks on pre-order from Axminster. Looking at the type of work you do Peter I think you'll be happy with your purchase. Great features, accuracy and very impressive dust collection. Only thing I'd have liked to have seen is the option to use a mains adapter as well. Hikoki have it for their 36v Table Saw. Festool have the know-how for this as they're already using it in their cordless sanders.
Can't wait to see how this works out Peter. While this wouldn't be a saw for me, the thing that I'm really intrigued by is the technology. The electronic display, motorized controls etc brings out the nerd in me. Makes me wonder what table saws will look like in the future!
Thanks, and yes, looking forwards to getting my hands on it. Funny, the digital, motorised doodads are the least appealing thing for me! Then again, I thought lasers on a mitre saw were a gimmick… 🤷♂️😂👍
Check out the Martin T75 and Altendorf F45 if you want to see the future :) These large sliding panel saws already had motorized CNC controlled functions two decades ago and nowadays the options are endless and the precision is amazing, working to 1/10th of a millimeter and 1/100th of a degree. This might sound silly but it makes all the difference in a professional environment. I believe there's a video where Peter explains why he never moved to a larger workshop and I think it's really inspiring to see how he runs a business out of a shoebox workshop. I certainly wouldn't be able to do that!
Peter I appreciate the kind references to Paoson and his work. I also very much respect his work and am building one of his workbenches at the moment. When I saw that cast iron small tablesaw that he used from Axminster I was very intrigued both by the cast iron on such a small saw but also the motor. Too bad there is nothing similar here in Canada. I sure wish we had access to some of the tools and materials (ie: black mdf) that you have access to in Europe!
I knew it, you do make millions off of UA-cam 😊 you must be the only woodworker on UA-cam without a sawstop. I enjoyed your video. I went through a similar exercise when thinking about replacing my dewalt job site saw for my small workshop and then just decided to not buy a new saw due to the lack of options for a small saw, and I was not willing to pay for festool or sawstop.
It’s true! 😂 I’m told that Sawstop throw out saws to UA-camrs pretty regularly, so that may account for the profileration; I remember Michael Alm saying he was offered one gratis just after he’d bought one - they wouldn’t work out anything for him financially, so he covered up all the branding… 🤷♂️👍
I would love to see the bloopers on this video Peter for a short one I think it took a few hours to make and on your your choice with the table saw I think you made the right one for your shop it ticks all your boxes like you said I’m looking forward to seeing your review on it down the track after using it for a while
I have to say I love my Axminster Craft 25m table saw its great, its quiet, accurate and powerful with good dust extraction shame you couldn't get one.
I subscribed because everything sounds better in a proper British accent. I’ve never seen his work but I am already convinced he makes the most extraordinary pieces 😅
Hi Peter, great video as always and really interesting to see your detailed rationale of choosing a final product - that's a process that all customers make I know. Everyone has criteria, and in UK footprint size is generally near the top of their list in my experience too. All the best. Cheers, Nick - Laguna UK ;)
Well explained and similar thoughts on requirements than I had. I once purchased a used metabo 5348 for 50€ and it worker surprisingly well, also in hardword with only 500W power. Just take it easy and it will cut anything. It is silent (no brushes), angles can be adjusted accurately. The issue of dust collection got solved with simple enclosure around the base with a door in the front to set adjustments and a hole from underneath to attache vacuum. I won't miss for stripes and small parts. Everything that is smaller than the base of the track saw got cut on that saw. it is also helpful for groves and 🐇. Latly, it got some competition from the bandsaw. Thanks for showing the festool.
Hi Peter, you mentioned the DW745. I have it and it does have some issues, the primary one being too damned noisy. That said the fence and table is great if a little short on infeed and out feed. Despite this, it’s exceptional value for money in my opinion and believe it has now been updated with some improvements in the form of the DW7485. Not sure if it is freely available in the UK or on its pricing, but I’m sure it is a good “budget” option vs the new Festool which unsurprisingly is prohibitively expensive for most people.
Like you this saw you ticks most boxes for me as I have very limited space. if they did a mains adaptor for it I would order one right now. With the option of buying batteries later if and when it suited me. Awesome video
Thanks! You’re not the first person to mention this, and I agree completely - seems like a crazy lack of forethought. I’m in the Festool battery platform already for the drills, so it’s less of an issue for me. 👍
6:18 Felder also offer saws with the skin sensing technology here in Europe on their full size sliding table saws. I think Bosch have saws with the same technology too.
Such a bad ass looking saw. It should be exceptional. I also like the look of that Charnwood W629. The small form factor of these saws with a sliding table is so appealing. Good luck with that Festool.
Interesting sir I faced similar thoughts about what to get for a table saw. I heavily considered the festival but the only packages here were the full package with the legs and Support I had quite a few Bosch battery powered tools at the time so I ended up buying the Bosch GTS 18 V - 08 n14 prop factor. I tend to shy away from festival battery powered tool due to the batteries, not going all the way across the line of tools I find the dust extraction extremely good for a benchtop, portable Saw
Exciting times.. 😄 can see this saw going down well with the kitchen fitter/fitted furniture people.. looking forward to your first impressions.. really rate my small DeWalt but it it makes a right old racket..
Thanks for sharing your purchase process. I like the way you define your needs and then move through options. I ended up buying the Dewalt 7491 and found it to be just adequate. It is noisy and fairly accurate but not so good with sheet goods, or dust collection. Since then, I have gone Festool with just about everything minus the Kapex, which I will buy within a month. It is pricey, but looks like a joy to work with. (I should say, I am retired and thus a hobbyist spending my children’s inheritance!). 😊
please do a little check on when you tighten the guide rail if it pulls is fractionally out of 'true', i think this can be an issue on the little tabletop saws, especially the proxon
It will be exiting to hear what you think about it. I was a bit concerned with the motorized height adjustment when I first saw it. But it does seem like a very convenient and really good table saw.
I bought the lumberjack hybrid saw a little over a year ago. It’s a great saw,powerful and accurate. Flat cast iron top,good dust extraction and relatively quiet. It’s not a portable saw,it’s way too heavy to transport to a job site. I bought it because my workshop is small and I needed a saw I could move when required. What sold the saw to me was the saw has wheels that can be jacked up by a foot pedal,this is included in the price. I don’t regret the purchase.
Hi Peter, hope your well my friend, great shortlist of table saws, you clearly have put alot of thought into this, I am lucky enough to have the big Laguna fusion 3 which is a beast but a very nice table saw that is extremely accurate, I love my festool 55 and use it alot mainly for cutting down sheet stock but I really couldn't do without my table saw, you will find that having the Table saw will make some cuts agood deal easier than the rail saw, in my humble opinion I think there is room for both saws, anyways your choice of the little festool table saw is interesting and I am looking forward to seeing you put it through its paces, stay safe, Louie . Northern Ireland Uk
I've got the Axminster workshop 10 inch saw. I bought it a few years ago when it was still under the Axminster red hobby brand and about £500. Im generally very happy with it, though like most Axminster products, it took some tweaking to get good results from it. The stops for 90 and 45 degrees were both way off. The 45 degrees one was about 43, so it wasn't possible to dial in 45 degrees with a digital angle scale until I adjusted it. The fence is suuuper naff, and the dust collection is crap. It's only 1100W, and it's very easy to stall the blade. All that said, I've had spectacular results with it now that it's all tuned up.
Thanks Peter, a breathless run-through of your selection process with some interesting observations, looking forward to seeing the saw in action ! If you need help with the millions give me a call ! 😉
Hi Peter , I have been looking at the csc ,I fit kitchens for a living so needed something compact and accurate , most of my kit is festool so I have plenty of batteries , I did have the dewalt site saw a few years back but it’s to heavy and the dust goes all over the place , love the breakdown you must have spent hours going over your list of saws ..
Interesting choice of saws available to you. In North America we don’t get any small bench top cast iron choices, didn’t even know that existed, especially with sliders in such compact size. For us, cast iron tops start with floor standing models only.
Pete - thank you so much for the in-depth share-out of your journey and decision making process - it got me thinking about my needs for a new table saw and I have some new things to consider. The higher accuracy/repeatability with the digital controls might be an time saver on many of my projects. As I would like to keep my 2 car garage workshop open, the smaller size would help avoiding filling up space with equipment (I know, I'm unusual in this way by US standards). I do hope these comes to the states in the future. It has a lot more going for it than the Sawstop for the kinds of projects I build.
Hi Peter, i live in the Netherlands i bought the axeminster bench top saw (craft) great saw. Though i have it for a year now it good available here now (gereedschappro approx 1100 euro) i have the smaller (216mm) version and i added the side extensions to it. It is a relay nice saw. But on top of this you then also should buy a dust extraction with bigger capacity 100mm port a normal shopvac will not work. That also adds to the cost. Br. Martijn
Surprised that you dismissed the Festool CS50 and CS70. You said you did not like then so fair enough but I have owned the CS70 for about 6 years and find it so versatile. I removed the legs and made a cabinet on castors with a CTL26 built in. Works amazingly well. Can position it in seconds to use surrounding surfaces as support or out feed tables. Extraction is great and can just lift it off the base and take it the work place if needed. Then you have the fantastic pull saw feature, which for me takes the place of a chop/mitre saw. This is hands down the most useful, versatile tool I have and I just love using.
Thanks Peter, a very interesting video. I’m in the same position, very little space (shared with a motorcycle and a large planer thicknesser from my old workshop. I bought an old Jet table saw that I have to move to use (and the motorcycle and often the planer) but have booked a demo on the Festool and suspect it’s the way forward for me. Looking forward to your longer term thoughts on it!
Best of luck with it, Peter. I have the Milwaukee M18 saw and love it but… I just wish there was a power adapter. I had a big job on cutting a lot of oak and it just ate batteries - even the 12ah ones. Waiting about for big (and expensive!) batteries charging is not good for productivity! The new Festool one looks stunning and very well designed - doesn’t all Festool - but batteries just aren’t worth the hassle for me for big kit. With all that said - I will watch your video with green-eyes because it does look soooo cool.
Thanks! And yes, I agree re the mains adapter, it’s a baffling decision not to something available - even a power brick would get you out of a tight spot - and I’ve heard from more than a few kitchen fitters who’ve said that it’s the batteries that’s the most off putting aspect, as they’re not on the Festool battery platform. 🤷♂️👍
This when I saw it would compliment me well. I do cabinet installations, and use the track saw mainly for that. but I don't like bringing the big DeWalt table saw because of the weight, and with my lower back issues, it really is a problem for me
Peter, if you are still waiting, then Amazon UK has stock. I’m not affiliated to Amazon in any way, it just seems unusual that they have stock whilst all the other regular Festool retailers in the UK (and Festool themselves) have been out of stock for a while - and I suspect they are all still waiting. I bought mine a while ago (from the reliable team at D&M) and I absolutely love it, although I admit that I’m a newbie woodworker and amateur so my opinion counts for nothing. I’ve built a (not so portable) jig from aluminium extrusion that allows to me to cut larger boards accurately using the SYS 50 with an Incra Positioner when needed. Really looking forward to your review - keep up the great work. Richard W
Hi Peter, Have fun with your new saw hope it works out for you. Seem you missed the black Friday sales from Axminster. They had the AW254TS available for a good price. I got one of the last ones and I am for the most parts really happy with it. Was very surprised how quiet it is.
I'm still scared of mine, so please be carefull in the "honeymoon period" I like your video's and wouldn't like this new addition stopping you from making them!
Kity used to fill the gap that you are looking for. I would suggest getting one on eBay when they turn up. Small, quiet, cast table and well engineered. I had a garage workshop when I bought my Sedgwick 315 30 years ago. It’s quiet,safe and has dust extraction. It’s enormously better than what you are proposing. I didn’t have the space like you, but I made room for it. Everything less is just a toy(almost). I use it for ripping and a mitre saw for cross cutting. I have a site saw in another place and it’s just not good or safe enough. Horses for courses. As you say, you don’t know till you’ve bought and used it. Those plastic fence guards are a nightmare. Mine exploded when the wood jammed in the huge clearance insert provided. Sort out a kick stop as a priority for safety and convenience. Great video as always. I’m tempted to suggest you should get a bigger workshop. Small house, big workshop works for me.
Thanks, but I’m afraid I disagree; I had the Axminster version of that small kity and it was horrible - terrible fence, sloppy, non-standard mitre slot, and no dust extraction to speak of. The only thing had had going for it was a cast iron top and an induction motor - and the fact it held it’s value really well! One of the few power tools I’ve managed to turn a profit on, lol! Not sure what you mean by a kick stop?? Would love a bigger workshop - there’s ~900sq ft available at the end of my road, but they want £27K/year plus vat (roughly 7 times what I’m paying now for 3x the space) so not going to happen! Also, I make UA-cam videos - what would I do with the space? 🤷♂️👍
Thanks! Like the CS 50/70/TKS80 the Mafell Erika relies on proprietary extrusions around the edge of the machine for accessories, inspired of simple mitre slots. That just really annoys me, for completely irrational reasons, but if I’m spending that kid of money I don’t want to be annoyed about it! 😂
I have the same wants/needs as yourself for a table saw. Having no festool batteries and really never ever needing a cordless table saw - I can't go with this new Festool. The Dewalt 10 inch is the perfect saw if the extraction was just a little better and it didn't scream like a banshee!
Yep, those two things were deal killers for me and the DeWalt, sadly. I almost didn’t get the Festool because of the battery, but then I thought why not?. 🤷♂️👍
Good luck. I hope it works out. I don’t own many Festool tools because of their premium pricing. But they are known for quality. This video reminded me of my quest for my first tablesaw. I had some of the same considerations. I bought the Ryobi BTX3000. My favorite saw to this day. Unfortunately Ryobi became part of an american company and the saw was discontinued and no longer supported. Eventually I thought I needed to move on and so I sold my Ryobi and bought a cast iron cabinet saw. I do like this saw and it still works great after 20 years. But I wish I still had the Ryobi, it was so unique, high Japanese quality, and my first saw.
I work in an apartment garage. When you get it I'm desperate to get sound measurements! If it's as quiet as it seems it will be a game changer for small shops.
That seems like nice saw. I live in the USA, and I own the Milwaukee M18 battery-powered jobsite table saw. I went with it because it's easy to buy in the USA, I already own some M18 batteries, and it is indeed quite portable and lightweight. I occasionally do some woodworking and carpentry projects in my garage in Chicago. When it's warm outside, I take my saw out to my garden with a couple lightweight, adjustable-height folding tables (one for the saw and one as an outfeed), and I can get decent results with my cuts. I love the portability of my saw. Even though I always hook up a shop vac + dust separator to collect sawdust when I use the saw, I always prefer to work outside in the fresh air in my garden when the weather is nice rather than inside my garage. When I do work inside my garage, I have to park my car out on the street, which is a pain since I'm in the city and I often have to circle around my neighbourhood a bit to find street parking. So I think I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of precision to have a tool that's optimized for portability and ease-of-storage. At some point, I may look at some small hybrid cast-iron saws. On the one hand, I'd love to have a truly flat machined top to my saw, and I'd love to have a rigid and sturdy fence. On the other hand, sometimes when I'm working on a project out in my garden over a weekend, we'll suddenly get some rain in the weather forecast, and I'll have to take my tools back into the garage until the rain clears up and then carry everything back outside to resume work. At those times, I'd much rather carry around a saw that's 20 kilos rather than a saw that's 40 kilos or more... Still, I'm jealous when I watch all these videos on UA-cam of people who have these great cast-iron saws with large, precision-machined work surfaces, rigid fences, and great dust extraction.
Being a festool crazed madman myself I’m looking forward to seeing what you think of the new saw. Out of interest peter what don’t you like about the tks 80 and the cs 70? I bought the cs 70 set myself with very little use and find it a great saw once set up properly.
Thanks. All the Festool table saws - until this one - follow the same pattern established way back by the CMS; instead of a simple t-slot/mitre slot there’s a proprietary extrusion around the perimeter of the saw that handles all the accessories/moving parts, and I just don’t like it. 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop I can’t help but think this new saw Will development into a bigger unit. I guess I make you right it a old design. Thanks for the reply Peter😊👍
Hope you enjoy your new saw should be good for small cuts, i had been looking into a new table saw and decided on the Axminster AT254SB waiting for stock to come inn and then they discontinued it I'm sure having lots of things on back order is having a big impact on their business with customers buying elsewhere.
great video there seems to be a gap in the market for a highly accurate job site size saw with a quiet and refined build but im looking forward to your video on the festool im really interested in how you get on with it
Looking forward to your experience. Here in the States the new CSC SYS 50 will be available later in the year. When I moved to a new shop, I got a small 10" table saw instead of a miter saw since I don't do much trim work that requires odd angles. Both are great sawdust dissemination machines. My home made cross cut sled works just fine to handle most of the small stuff and anything else gets the TS55 treatment. If I could replace that saw with one that has good dust collection, I could reduce the dust in my shop by 90%.
Nice video. I live in an apartment myself and I have been using Makita cordless track saw for a while as dare I say my first woodworking tool. I loved it for cutting long sheets on ply but when it comes to smaller pieces it's not ideal. I would love to get a table saw unfortunately Festool is 2x my budget. Axminster saw looks perfect if not for it's weight as I might need to move it around from one room to another. 89kg is no joke. Another option for almoat same price is Bosch 10XC and Dewalt 7492. I prefer the former. Any advise on choosing the right saw from the mentioned would be welcome. Especially if you had any experience with the Bosch one. Thank you.
Great video thanks Peter, I'm considering this saw myself, though would rather it was corded, so looking forward to your review\ opinion once it arrives, thanks again hope you're well
I'm excited to see how you like it Peter. I'm even more excited to learn that the CSC SYS 50 is coming to the US later this year! I just wish it had the Sawstop technology in it.
Last week, I raised the same point with Peter about Sawstop technology. He pointed out that the technology requires an earthed supply which is not available on a battery tool. This makes sense to me.
Good luck on this saw Peter, I have space and accessibility to SawStop so I dropped $2,200 US on one. Have to say for accuracy & performance, love it. Only nit, can't get a 45.5 angle nor a -0.5 as well, guess I'll have to break out tape to do that. Look forward to your overview. Long Live Green Machines!
'UA-cam millions', yes, I always suspected your workshop was actually just a film set, the actual carpentry is done by unseen apprentices and when you are not filming, you are sunning yourself in the Bahamas! Look forward to seeing that new table saw. I have the Festool cordless plunge saw and I must say it is an absolute dream to use on site. Hoping the table saw will be the same.
Congrats on your new saw, the digital blade height adjuster looks very useful. I was waiting on the TKS 80 to be released 2 years ago and really wanted it for the sawstop functionality. I was under pressure to get a saw for a project at the time so I went with the erika 85 instead from Sauter, delighted with it. An Erika 60 is about the same money or less than the CSC SYS 50, well worth consideration if it is for mainly workshop usage.
Thanks! Interesting - I think the digital blade height is a bit of a gimmick and cant see myself getting any benefit from it - but then I thought that about lasers on mitre saws as well... 🤷♂️ 😂
Great video yet again and I am definitely in the market for the festool . Storage is a problem for myself, and being able to store the saw in its on systainer makes sense. One thing , I can't help but wonder is you mentioned that you can't have a 16amp supply to a saw. Why not?
Thanks. Re the power supply question, there's a very long and convoluted answer to that, but the short version is I've been in the workshop ~20 years and it's just not going to happen. 🤷♂️
I ended up in the same space predicament. Although I have access to buy a SawStop CTS so I'm eagerly waiting for you to get your hands on the CSC50 to put it through its paces and see if its worth the price premium.
Been woodworking for 10+ years and I’ve recently been hearing people like you say I’ve had no use for a table saw and I have to say this blows my mind. I use my table saw on almost every job and find countless uses for it?
Only thing I ever really needed it for was very narrow rips, and cutting wedges - and I found other ways to do those too! 🤷♂️ A lot will depend on the kind of work you do, of course. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop modifying a kitchen cabinet that will require making two new drawers and adding support to the inside of this cabinet. All tasks going right to my TS, cut all of drawers to width & box joints on it then use it to cut supports to width. Use miter saw for length cuts and planer to get support down to proper thickness…before planer would have used TS for this. Guess I could do all by hand but too time consuming for me.
You are really pulling me along on this one Peter…… All jokes aside, interesting insight to your buying process. I 100% agree that you just don’t know how something will work for you until you get it back and try it in your own space / working environment
You know what I want? A vastly stripped down table saw, just the "guts". The motor, blade and adjustments for depth and angle, and a minimal table, so that I can mount it in a bench like people mount routers. I don't need a massive table, the workbench is the table. Some people do this with circular saw hacks, but they're not designed for that.
I'm personally also looking forward to see how festool saw performs. I also have very small workshop and have tracksaw for those bigger cuts but I often need a tablesaw also for repeating narrow cuts and accuracy.
The shop looks great Peter ! Can't wait to hear how you like the new saw. It is a very interesting design that hopefully offers the mobile carpenter high precision and repeatability. The Sawstop josite saw is a pretty good saw and has pretty good dust collection. But the Festool would be lighter on an this aging carpenters joints. Best regards
I got to this video because I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to accurately and repeatedly cut small pieces of wood (70 x 80mm) with a track saw. How did you do that before deciding to purchase a table saw? Have you done a video on this?
Great video, I purchased the Axminster 254 saw, less the sliding table due to space. I also prefer to use a table sledge. I visited two of the tool suppliers that I use. One has stopped being a Festool supplier, and the other is strongly considering pulling the plug. Both are due to supply and pricing issues. This has left me a little cold to future purchases. I have made many in the last few years. It was suggested that the UK base may be going??
Interesting choice, would have thought the TKS80 would have knocked it out of the park for you. I had to watch the UK Festool channel to get more details, and it’s kind of an anomaly to me. It does not appear to have the SawStop technology, and they seemed to have created another blade size, so compatibility with any track saw is out. But the digital features are geeking me out. Like the TKS80 (though SawStop just introduced a similar US variant), neither Festool variant will make it across the pond, so I will just have wait to see how you make on with it. Thanks for another well crafted video.
Thanks. Sawstop flesh-sensing tech requires an earth/ground which you don’t have in a cordless tool. I dislike the whole family of Festool cs 50/70, TKS 80 table saws as they all carry over the worst of the old CMS - no mitre slots, and a reliance of proprietary extrusion to handle accessories. Also the fence is an optional extra on the TKS80. 🤷♂️ CSC SYS 50 uses the same blades as the latest TS60 tracksaw btw, so there’ll be plenty of choice. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop lack of mitre slot would turn me off the TKS80 as well. The TS60 looks like an interesting addition, something else we won’t see stateside. Having the same blade size across plunge and mitre and mini table saw could yield a useful kit. Makes more sense now and thanks. Looking forward to seeing your review, but for me, I’ll stick with my Makita XGT 😉😀😏.
Great video Peter, I’ve just been going through the same dilemma myself. Just wondering why you dismissed the corded Festools? Personally I am hoping the Festool Cordless tech eventually migrates to the corded variants.
Thanks. It’s purely a personal thing; all the Festool table saws - until this one - follow the same pattern established way back by the CMS. Instead of a simple t-slot/mitre slot there’s a proprietary extrusion around the perimeter of the saw that handles all the accessories/moving parts, and I just don’t like it, unfortunately. 🤷♂️👍
In my opinion, with that thorough of an analysis, one thing nobody could call you is a brand fanboy. Which is actually a great unintentional advertisement for Festool after seeing how often you end up in that platform.
I love Festool and have a few myself. I watched the promotional video by Festool and it does seem good. However I did note that they only cut thin boards on it. I have my doubts about rip cutting solid timber with a battery saw. I have the Hikoki cordless bench saw and it eats through batteries and it doesn't last long when ripping solid timber. It can be mains supplied though and I don't think the Festool can. This was a problem for the earlier Festool track saws. They lacked power. The new ones have a much thinner blade to help overcome this. If I were you I would have asked to try a demo saw fora few days. Here in Australia the Festool rep will oblige if they have one available. Not sure in the UK.
Find me a video on the channel where you see me ripping any solid timber. 🤷♂️ As I say in the vid, it’s for small, precise cuts and narrow rips in small workpieces, it’s not for everyone and I’m not 100% sure it’s for me, but I’m prepared to fit it a try. And Festool UK wouldn’t lend me the time of day.
@@10MinuteWorkshop Why the angry reply .I have never seen anything on your channel. I am new to your channel. I'm commenting on the saw not you or your ability. Hope it's all you believe it to be. Best of luck with your projects.
@@messenger8279 I’m not angry at all. But you do seem to want to ascribe your use case of this saw to me, and as I’ve spent the entire video explaining, my requirements for a saw like this are very specific - small, quiet and precise, for repeatable cuts in thin stock. Yes, I’d prefer it to have a mains option, but it’s battery only; I don’t see that as being a huge problem, otherwise I wouldn’t have bought it. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I stated my business in a shop like yours in SW London 35 years ago. I totally understand your needs. The problem seems to be your ego. You're carrying on like a small child. Get over it mate Its just a saw. Hope it works out nd if it doesn't it's no big deal's it. Calm down mate.
Has the saw come in? Anxiously awaiting your review and the US release which seems to be at least 3 months away (although I would be surprised is they waited until the 3rd quarter of the year). When you do the review, can you measure the height of the Systainer. I can’t seem to find those specs anywhere online. I’m assuming it’s close to 22” (558 mm) based on the posted dimensions of the saw.
Be interested to see how you get on with this saw Peter, as I've been looking to replace my portable saw for quite some time🤔Unfortunately, I can only buy a new pencil with my UA-cam millions😆 Thanks for the video👍
Good stuff, hope you really enjoy it Peter! We certainly don’t seem to have the choices that our chums across the water get - but that seems to be the case with most woodworking tools. If you’d have gotten the expensive Axminster, I think it takes dado blades so people would have just complained anyway 😂
That Milwaukee table battery powered one is shockingly good, and insanely quiet. I have the dewalt with the rolling collapsible base and while it's extremely loud due to minimal construction around it, I love that saw heh
My working partner has the Milwaukee cordless we use quite often on the job..It's kind of heavy to move around, but I'm kind of old so it could be me. Accuracy is pretty good for being cordless, but as long as you know your limitations and don't try ripping gigantic sheets of plywood and such it's a decent job site saw. I have a SS 52" in the shop for heavy lifting so we're covered with the Milwaukee on the job in customers homes..It's about as loud as the typical cordless circular..I think it's built around the Milwaukee cordless circular..
Hello Peter, That was a great diagnoses of saws available and to suit your requirements. We can all fall into a trap of the best of this best of that, but it’s down to exactly what you said, budget and what YOU really need it to do, not what someone else thinks, is the best since sliced bread. Etc,etc. For me I needed a site type saw that I could store away on its side when not in use, have a large top for support and budget of £600ish four years ago. I purchased the Bosch GTS10XC, would I recommend it? No, there’s too many inaccuracies in it which took a lot of effort to sort out. So I’ll be very interested like many others to see how you get on with this Festool. I’m always interested in what you do and say. Max
Thanks Max! Interesting what yoy say about the Bosch; that and the DeWalt come across as some of the better site saws out there, and I know more than a few folks who use them in the workshop as well. And yes, I'm interested to see what this saw is really capable of too! 👍
Hi Peter, have you chased up to see where your saw is? I finally committed to getting one after watching this video. I was supposed to have got it last week, but I was told Festool Germany was delayed until mid-April, and that's just the saw, the undercarriage delayed until May. Hope it's worth the wait. Are you going to do an unboxing and set up video? Regards Mike
I can live without a miter/chop saw but never again will I be without a tracksaw or table saw. Tracksaw only for years and years but I never realized you can get by without a table saw but you’re only kidding yourself that it’s the better way. At least for me. Looking forward to the hybrid workflow
I was recently in the same position and went for the Festool FESTOOL TKS 80 EBS basic package. The only thing that made me buy the last one from Axminster it was the sawstop. As someone that has had an accident involving a power saw I was very interested in this feature. The rest of the saw is not up to the speck that I would expect from Festool, to many to mention here. Its not that it don't cut, it dose, and it cuts well, just little things that add up. If you ever want to do a review on it I would be happy for you to borrow it
Thanks, that’s kind of you, but I’ve had a pretty close look at a few of them and like you, didn’t really feel the ‘sum of the parts’ added up to what was being asked. I have mixed feelings about the sawstop tech, and on reflection I wasn’t prepared to put up with that saw just to have it. 👍👍
I'm glad you didn't end up with a Charnwood. The build quality on mine was unacceptable and it went back. I ended up with a 10inch sip which I loved to bits for a few years but it took up too much space in my 2 car garage. I've now got the titan bench top saw. For £100 it's amazingly capable. It's not accurate in the slightest but it works. The portability and small form factor make this festool look very tempting.
Wouldn't the Fusion 2 (and other 1.75hp saws) be 7A saws in the UK on 240V Power? For instance the F2 is rated at 1300W / 220-240V gets you roughly 6A of draw, not 13. The reason I ask is that before buying my sawstop I looked at the F2 and here in the states it is rated for 115V/14A, or 230V/7 Amp if it is rewired for 230V. I think you will be happy with the Festool, the sliding table design looks really nice for that size saw
It's actually on a 30A ring main, but I've been in the building ~20 years and a 16A feed ain't going to happen; it's to do with the infrastructure of the rest of the building more than my specific unit. 👍
![Festool's Big Mistake [video 530]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wc0MOV3HtjI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Festool's Big Mistake [video 530]](/img/tr.png)
![My 5 Worst Buys! [video 484]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5uoQ78879Es/mqdefault.jpg)
![Cutting The (tablesaw) Cord 1 Year Later [video 573]](/img/n.gif)
Great video Thank you. I really like how you explain things, the logic used and edit so there's no waffle.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks!
@@10MinuteWorkshop You're welcome. Your process helps us buy tools. It's too easy to make impulse buys. What's needed, especially for this money, is a methodical approach and I completely agree that it we fly up to the peak of excitement initially with a new tool, the into the through of niggles until we rise up and plateau off, hopefully in a good state!
Well done Peter on managing to say all those product numbers! I'm sure there are a few "bloopers" you had to edit out and save for a rainy day 😂
Thank goodness for autocue! 😂👍
I brought the AC254TS and it is great. It can be small or made bigger and most importantly the noise was low and extraction was good. Thanks for how thorough you are- you have a way infront of the camera.
I do exactly what you do for a living. I've done it for 40 years. The best portable cordless table saw I have found is the dewalt 8-1/4" 60 volt. I think its a 54 volt in the uk. Its precise, quiet, very good on dust collection. I have been using it in houses for the last three years. Zero problems. Hope this helps.
I have had this saw for years myself and am a,axed at how far battery technology has come over the years. I also have the larger DeWalt but find myself using the smaller battery one more often even when I have power at hand. When paired with the DeWalt roller stand it really is just do portable and quiet. When paired with a Bosch dust bag it does well even without a dust collector.
While not intended I’ve found the DeWalt saw will even run a dado stack at least up to about 3/8” plywood; though I usually only run a couple 7 1/4” blades with a spacer which perfectly fits 5mm plywood, which is about the only affordable plywood left, but us good enough for drawer bottoms.
I am so glad that you are doing this. I hope that it ticks all the same boxes for me. I am a fitted furniture maker, working out of a tiny single garage. I love making small, very precise things and need something quiet and with good dust extraction. So I will follow your videos and hope to aquire one in the near future.
Thanks! Yes, looking forwards to getting it in my hands and having a proper play with it! 👍
After hankering after a cast iron top table saw for more years than I care to mention i managed to pickup the Axminster AW254TS second hand in excellent condition and then bought the sliding table attachment for it. After a LOT of playing around and excellent support from Axminster I got it setup pretty well and overall am very pleased with it for my small shop.
As I saw this saw's introduction, I immediately thought of your table saw video and that this would be perfect for your workshop. You can also build wonderful things without such an expensive saw but I think you can enjoy and make the best out of it, too :)
Thanks! Yes, fingers crossed! 👍
Hi Peter, great vid as usual ! very much interested in seeing how this saw performs....keep em coming.
I’ve been talking to few kitchen fitters about this saw ( myself being one as well) but we are all being put off by the price, so to see a good review from yourself might sway or even confirm our doubts about this product. Looking forward to seeing it.
Look forward to getting my hands on it! I agree, it’s top money for a ‘site’ saw - especially when you compare it to the likes of the Milwaukee and Hikoki cordless - but in my brief time with it, it seems a much better product, and much better suited to finished cuts rather than, say, 600mm rips in OSB, which is where I feel the others are pitching themselves. We’ll see, when I actually get my hands on it. 👍👍
Hi Peter, I have been watching your videos for a while now and I must say they are very informative. It was watching your videos that got me hooked on the Festool Quality. I have just taken delivery of the CSC SYS 50 this week, and I absolutely love it! Like yourself I am space restricted and it's super compact portability and accuracy is fantastic. I have also got the trolley/table on back order. Looking forward to your full review.
Jeff Hawkes.
Thanks Jeff! Looking forwards to getting mine! I didn't go for the trolley as I want to make my own cabinet for it, but the trolley looked like a fantastic and versatile base. 👍
Your criterion for tablesaw choices are spot on.However,my friend,you need a bigger, more size friendly outerbuilding.I love your shop and all you've done with it.I sell Festool where I work and a few of these saws are here for evaluation and are generally liked.Cant wait for you to receive it and your honest review.
Thanks! Working on it! 👍
Mine arrived earlier this week after a few weeks on pre-order from Axminster. Looking at the type of work you do Peter I think you'll be happy with your purchase. Great features, accuracy and very impressive dust collection. Only thing I'd have liked to have seen is the option to use a mains adapter as well. Hikoki have it for their 36v Table Saw. Festool have the know-how for this as they're already using it in their cordless sanders.
Thanks Adrian! And yes, indeed - mind you, those mains adapters for the sanders cost about as much as an extra couple of batteries! 😂
Can't wait to see how this works out Peter. While this wouldn't be a saw for me, the thing that I'm really intrigued by is the technology. The electronic display, motorized controls etc brings out the nerd in me. Makes me wonder what table saws will look like in the future!
Thanks, and yes, looking forwards to getting my hands on it. Funny, the digital, motorised doodads are the least appealing thing for me! Then again, I thought lasers on a mitre saw were a gimmick… 🤷♂️😂👍
Check out the Martin T75 and Altendorf F45 if you want to see the future :) These large sliding panel saws already had motorized CNC controlled functions two decades ago and nowadays the options are endless and the precision is amazing, working to 1/10th of a millimeter and 1/100th of a degree. This might sound silly but it makes all the difference in a professional environment. I believe there's a video where Peter explains why he never moved to a larger workshop and I think it's really inspiring to see how he runs a business out of a shoebox workshop. I certainly wouldn't be able to do that!
@@newdutchworkshop7026 yes and that aldendorf also has 2d nesting of your parts in their electronic display.
Peter I appreciate the kind references to Paoson and his work. I also very much respect his work and am building one of his workbenches at the moment. When I saw that cast iron small tablesaw that he used from Axminster I was very intrigued both by the cast iron on such a small saw but also the motor. Too bad there is nothing similar here in Canada. I sure wish we had access to some of the tools and materials (ie: black mdf) that you have access to in Europe!
Thanks! Paoson is a great channel and does very meticulous work that has a lot of appeal. 👍
Being a Brit that has lived 2/3 of my life in Canada I was already envisioning bringing a few pieces back lol
I knew it, you do make millions off of UA-cam 😊 you must be the only woodworker on UA-cam without a sawstop. I enjoyed your video. I went through a similar exercise when thinking about replacing my dewalt job site saw for my small workshop and then just decided to not buy a new saw due to the lack of options for a small saw, and I was not willing to pay for festool or sawstop.
It’s true! 😂 I’m told that Sawstop throw out saws to UA-camrs pretty regularly, so that may account for the profileration; I remember Michael Alm saying he was offered one gratis just after he’d bought one - they wouldn’t work out anything for him financially, so he covered up all the branding… 🤷♂️👍
I would love to see the bloopers on this video Peter for a short one I think it took a few hours to make and on your your choice with the table saw I think you made the right one for your shop it ticks all your boxes like you said I’m looking forward to seeing your review on it down the track after using it for a while
Thanks! Bloopers weren’t too bad, but man, all those product numbers! 🤦♂️😂
I have to say I love my Axminster Craft 25m table saw its great, its quiet, accurate and powerful with good dust extraction shame you couldn't get one.
You explained yourself very well, as we have come to expect.
Thank you! 🙌
As always a great informative piece to camera Peter.
Thanks!
I subscribed because everything sounds better in a proper British accent. I’ve never seen his work but I am already convinced he makes the most extraordinary pieces 😅
😂😂 It’s all true! 😆🇬🇧
Hi Peter, great video as always and really interesting to see your detailed rationale of choosing a final product - that's a process that all customers make I know. Everyone has criteria, and in UK footprint size is generally near the top of their list in my experience too. All the best. Cheers, Nick - Laguna UK ;)
Hi Nick, and thanks! If I had the space we’d be talking, no question! 👍👍
Well explained and similar thoughts on requirements than I had. I once purchased a used metabo 5348 for 50€ and it worker surprisingly well, also in hardword with only 500W power. Just take it easy and it will cut anything. It is silent (no brushes), angles can be adjusted accurately. The issue of dust collection got solved with simple enclosure around the base with a door in the front to set adjustments and a hole from underneath to attache vacuum. I won't miss for stripes and small parts. Everything that is smaller than the base of the track saw got cut on that saw. it is also helpful for groves and 🐇. Latly, it got some competition from the bandsaw.
Thanks for showing the festool.
I previously owned a Charnwood 650 couldn't wait to get rid of it replaced it with a Startrite panel saw brilliant piece of kit.
Hi Peter, you mentioned the DW745. I have it and it does have some issues, the primary one being too damned noisy. That said the fence and table is great if a little short on infeed and out feed. Despite this, it’s exceptional value for money in my opinion and believe it has now been updated with some improvements in the form of the DW7485. Not sure if it is freely available in the UK or on its pricing, but I’m sure it is a good “budget” option vs the new Festool which unsurprisingly is prohibitively expensive for most people.
Like you this saw you ticks most boxes for me as I have very limited space. if they did a mains adaptor for it I would order one right now. With the option of buying batteries later if and when it suited me. Awesome video
Thanks! You’re not the first person to mention this, and I agree completely - seems like a crazy lack of forethought. I’m in the Festool battery platform already for the drills, so it’s less of an issue for me. 👍
6:18 Felder also offer saws with the skin sensing technology here in Europe on their full size sliding table saws. I think Bosch have saws with the same technology too.
Thanks. The Bosch has ceased production pending legal action, and I’m not looking at a full size slider. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop more for your views as I know you’re sorted with a saw. If someone did want it, it is available in Europe
Such a bad ass looking saw. It should be exceptional. I also like the look of that Charnwood W629. The small form factor of these saws with a sliding table is so appealing. Good luck with that Festool.
Thanks! Yes, hope so! 👍
Interesting sir I faced similar thoughts about what to get for a table saw. I heavily considered the festival but the only packages here were the full package with the legs and Support I had quite a few Bosch battery powered tools at the time so I ended up buying the Bosch GTS 18 V - 08 n14 prop factor. I tend to shy away from festival battery powered tool due to the batteries, not going all the way across the line of tools I find the dust extraction extremely good for a benchtop, portable Saw
Exciting times.. 😄 can see this saw going down well with the kitchen fitter/fitted furniture people.. looking forward to your first impressions.. really rate my small DeWalt but it it makes a right old racket..
Yes, absolutely. 👍
Thanks for sharing your purchase process. I like the way you define your needs and then move through options. I ended up buying the Dewalt 7491 and found it to be just adequate. It is noisy and fairly accurate but not so good with sheet goods, or dust collection. Since then, I have gone Festool with just about everything minus the Kapex, which I will buy within a month. It is pricey, but looks like a joy to work with. (I should say, I am retired and thus a hobbyist spending my children’s inheritance!). 😊
The kids would only blow it! 😂👍
please do a little check on when you tighten the guide rail if it pulls is fractionally out of 'true', i think this can be an issue on the little tabletop saws, especially the proxon
Hi Peter, very interesting…. I Look forward to it! Len (Devon 🇬🇧)/
Cheers Len! 👍
You’ve taken the plunge! Can’t wait to see how you trim it out once you’ve lived with it for a few months.
Me too! 👍
Pretty nice saw indeed, Peter! Congrats! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks, will do - and you too!!
It will be exiting to hear what you think about it. I was a bit concerned with the motorized height adjustment when I first saw it. But it does seem like a very convenient and really good table saw.
Me too! Yes, I still think it’s a bit of a gimmick, but it’s factory calibrated - they say - so I’ll see how aI get on. 👍
I bought the lumberjack hybrid saw a little over a year ago. It’s a great saw,powerful and accurate. Flat cast iron top,good dust extraction and relatively quiet. It’s not a portable saw,it’s way too heavy to transport to a job site. I bought it because my workshop is small and I needed a saw I could move when required. What sold the saw to me was the saw has wheels that can be jacked up by a foot pedal,this is included in the price. I don’t regret the purchase.
Yep, and the fact that it comes with a mobile base is a big plus in a smaller workshop. 👍
0.22 there she is .the mafell plunge saw.what a wonderful piece of engineering it is. The ultimate enabling tool
Hi Peter, hope your well my friend, great shortlist of table saws, you clearly have put alot of thought into this, I am lucky enough to have the big Laguna fusion 3 which is a beast but a very nice table saw that is extremely accurate, I love my festool 55 and use it alot mainly for cutting down sheet stock but I really couldn't do without my table saw, you will find that having the Table saw will make some cuts agood deal easier than the rail saw, in my humble opinion I think there is room for both saws, anyways your choice of the little festool table saw is interesting and I am looking forward to seeing you put it through its paces, stay safe, Louie . Northern Ireland Uk
Cheers Louie! Yes, it’ll be interesting to have some time with it; if I had space I’d have a big hunk of cast iron - but I don’t 🤷♂️👍
I've got the Axminster workshop 10 inch saw. I bought it a few years ago when it was still under the Axminster red hobby brand and about £500.
Im generally very happy with it, though like most Axminster products, it took some tweaking to get good results from it. The stops for 90 and 45 degrees were both way off. The 45 degrees one was about 43, so it wasn't possible to dial in 45 degrees with a digital angle scale until I adjusted it.
The fence is suuuper naff, and the dust collection is crap. It's only 1100W, and it's very easy to stall the blade.
All that said, I've had spectacular results with it now that it's all tuned up.
Thanks Peter, a breathless run-through of your selection process with some interesting observations, looking forward to seeing the saw in action !
If you need help with the millions give me a call ! 😉
Hi Peter , I have been looking at the csc ,I fit kitchens for a living so needed something compact and accurate , most of my kit is festool so I have plenty of batteries , I did have the dewalt site saw a few years back but it’s to heavy and the dust goes all over the place , love the breakdown you must have spent hours going over your list of saws ..
Cheers Paul. I think a lot of kitchen guys are looking at the CSC! Look forward to getting my hands on mine! 👍
Interesting choice of saws available to you. In North America we don’t get any small bench top cast iron choices, didn’t even know that existed, especially with sliders in such compact size.
For us, cast iron tops start with floor standing models only.
👍
Pete - thank you so much for the in-depth share-out of your journey and decision making process - it got me thinking about my needs for a new table saw and I have some new things to consider. The higher accuracy/repeatability with the digital controls might be an time saver on many of my projects. As I would like to keep my 2 car garage workshop open, the smaller size would help avoiding filling up space with equipment (I know, I'm unusual in this way by US standards). I do hope these comes to the states in the future. It has a lot more going for it than the Sawstop for the kinds of projects I build.
Thanks! I believe Festool have recently announced US availability, so fingers crossed! 👍
Hi Peter, i live in the Netherlands i bought the axeminster bench top saw (craft) great saw. Though i have it for a year now it good available here now (gereedschappro approx 1100 euro) i have the smaller (216mm) version and i added the side extensions to it. It is a relay nice saw. But on top of this you then also should buy a dust extraction with bigger capacity 100mm port a normal shopvac will not work. That also adds to the cost. Br. Martijn
Thanks Martijn! I already have a 100mm vac, but part of the appeal of the Festool is that it’s designed to use a regular CTL extractor. 👍👍
Surprised that you dismissed the Festool CS50 and CS70. You said you did not like then so fair enough but I have owned the CS70 for about 6 years and find it so versatile. I removed the legs and made a cabinet on castors with a CTL26 built in. Works amazingly well.
Can position it in seconds to use surrounding surfaces as support or out feed tables. Extraction is great and can just lift it off the base and take it the work place if needed.
Then you have the fantastic pull saw feature, which for me takes the place of a chop/mitre saw. This is hands down the most useful, versatile tool I have and I just love using.
That’s what I’m planning with this saw, cabinet with vac beneath. 👍
Thanks Peter, a very interesting video. I’m in the same position, very little space (shared with a motorcycle and a large planer thicknesser from my old workshop. I bought an old Jet table saw that I have to move to use (and the motorcycle and often the planer) but have booked a demo on the Festool and suspect it’s the way forward for me. Looking forward to your longer term thoughts on it!
Thanks! All I can say is leave your wallet at home when you have the demo. 😬
@@10MinuteWorkshop I will have to move the decimal point to the left if I do buy one!
Look forward to seeing it
Me too! 👍
Best of luck with it, Peter. I have the Milwaukee M18 saw and love it but… I just wish there was a power adapter. I had a big job on cutting a lot of oak and it just ate batteries - even the 12ah ones. Waiting about for big (and expensive!) batteries charging is not good for productivity! The new Festool one looks stunning and very well designed - doesn’t all Festool - but batteries just aren’t worth the hassle for me for big kit. With all that said - I will watch your video with green-eyes because it does look soooo cool.
Thanks! And yes, I agree re the mains adapter, it’s a baffling decision not to something available - even a power brick would get you out of a tight spot - and I’ve heard from more than a few kitchen fitters who’ve said that it’s the batteries that’s the most off putting aspect, as they’re not on the Festool battery platform. 🤷♂️👍
This when I saw it would compliment me well. I do cabinet installations, and use the track saw mainly for that. but I don't like bringing the big DeWalt table saw because of the weight, and with my lower back issues, it really is a problem for me
Got mine last week from Toucan tools, the stand is on back order though. In the honeymoon period,. as you put it, I am very impressed.
Nice! 👍
Peter, if you are still waiting, then Amazon UK has stock. I’m not affiliated to Amazon in any way, it just seems unusual that they have stock whilst all the other regular Festool retailers in the UK (and Festool themselves) have been out of stock for a while - and I suspect they are all still waiting. I bought mine a while ago (from the reliable team at D&M) and I absolutely love it, although I admit that I’m a newbie woodworker and amateur so my opinion counts for nothing. I’ve built a (not so portable) jig from aluminium extrusion that allows to me to cut larger boards accurately using the SYS 50 with an Incra Positioner when needed. Really looking forward to your review - keep up the great work. Richard W
Thanks Richard! Honestly, it had never occurred to me to try Amazon! I'll take a look, thanks! 👍
Hi Peter,
Have fun with your new saw hope it works out for you.
Seem you missed the black Friday sales from Axminster.
They had the AW254TS available for a good price.
I got one of the last ones and I am for the most parts really happy with it.
Was very surprised how quiet it is.
I'm still scared of mine, so please be carefull in the "honeymoon period" I like your video's and wouldn't like this new addition stopping you from making them!
Kity used to fill the gap that you are looking for. I would suggest getting one on eBay when they turn up. Small, quiet, cast table and well engineered. I had a garage workshop when I bought my Sedgwick 315 30 years ago. It’s quiet,safe and has dust extraction. It’s enormously better than what you are proposing. I didn’t have the space like you, but I made room for it. Everything less is just a toy(almost). I use it for ripping and a mitre saw for cross cutting. I have a site saw in another place and it’s just not good or safe enough. Horses for courses. As you say, you don’t know till you’ve bought and used it. Those plastic fence guards are a nightmare. Mine exploded when the wood jammed in the huge clearance insert provided. Sort out a kick stop as a priority for safety and convenience.
Great video as always. I’m tempted to suggest you should get a bigger workshop. Small house, big workshop works for me.
Thanks, but I’m afraid I disagree; I had the Axminster version of that small kity and it was horrible - terrible fence, sloppy, non-standard mitre slot, and no dust extraction to speak of. The only thing had had going for it was a cast iron top and an induction motor - and the fact it held it’s value really well! One of the few power tools I’ve managed to turn a profit on, lol!
Not sure what you mean by a kick stop?? Would love a bigger workshop - there’s ~900sq ft available at the end of my road, but they want £27K/year plus vat (roughly 7 times what I’m paying now for 3x the space) so not going to happen! Also, I make UA-cam videos - what would I do with the space? 🤷♂️👍
Great video! Would be interesting to hear about the Mafell Erica 60. It should be nearly the same size as Festool csc sys 50.
Thanks! Like the CS 50/70/TKS80 the Mafell Erika relies on proprietary extrusions around the edge of the machine for accessories, inspired of simple mitre slots. That just really annoys me, for completely irrational reasons, but if I’m spending that kid of money I don’t want to be annoyed about it! 😂
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you for your response :)
This sounds like an explain I give to the mrs when I’ve been in the pub longer than said.
I have the same wants/needs as yourself for a table saw. Having no festool batteries and really never ever needing a cordless table saw - I can't go with this new Festool. The Dewalt 10 inch is the perfect saw if the extraction was just a little better and it didn't scream like a banshee!
Yep, those two things were deal killers for me and the DeWalt, sadly. I almost didn’t get the Festool because of the battery, but then I thought why not?. 🤷♂️👍
Hello Peter. Like you I am a track saw guy and I was interested to know what this new table saw will add compared to your MFT table + track saw setup?
Good luck. I hope it works out. I don’t own many Festool tools because of their premium pricing. But they are known for quality. This video reminded me of my quest for my first tablesaw. I had some of the same considerations. I bought the Ryobi BTX3000. My favorite saw to this day. Unfortunately Ryobi became part of an american company and the saw was discontinued and no longer supported. Eventually I thought I needed to move on and so I sold my Ryobi and bought a cast iron cabinet saw. I do like this saw and it still works great after 20 years. But I wish I still had the Ryobi, it was so unique, high Japanese quality, and my first saw.
Thanks! 👍
I work in an apartment garage. When you get it I'm desperate to get sound measurements! If it's as quiet as it seems it will be a game changer for small shops.
Yep, I’ll be doing real world sound tests when I get it. 👍
That seems like nice saw. I live in the USA, and I own the Milwaukee M18 battery-powered jobsite table saw. I went with it because it's easy to buy in the USA, I already own some M18 batteries, and it is indeed quite portable and lightweight.
I occasionally do some woodworking and carpentry projects in my garage in Chicago. When it's warm outside, I take my saw out to my garden with a couple lightweight, adjustable-height folding tables (one for the saw and one as an outfeed), and I can get decent results with my cuts.
I love the portability of my saw. Even though I always hook up a shop vac + dust separator to collect sawdust when I use the saw, I always prefer to work outside in the fresh air in my garden when the weather is nice rather than inside my garage. When I do work inside my garage, I have to park my car out on the street, which is a pain since I'm in the city and I often have to circle around my neighbourhood a bit to find street parking. So I think I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of precision to have a tool that's optimized for portability and ease-of-storage.
At some point, I may look at some small hybrid cast-iron saws. On the one hand, I'd love to have a truly flat machined top to my saw, and I'd love to have a rigid and sturdy fence. On the other hand, sometimes when I'm working on a project out in my garden over a weekend, we'll suddenly get some rain in the weather forecast, and I'll have to take my tools back into the garage until the rain clears up and then carry everything back outside to resume work. At those times, I'd much rather carry around a saw that's 20 kilos rather than a saw that's 40 kilos or more...
Still, I'm jealous when I watch all these videos on UA-cam of people who have these great cast-iron saws with large, precision-machined work surfaces, rigid fences, and great dust extraction.
Being a festool crazed madman myself I’m looking forward to seeing what you think of the new saw.
Out of interest peter what don’t you like about the tks 80 and the cs 70? I bought the cs 70 set myself with very little use and find it a great saw once set up properly.
Thanks. All the Festool table saws - until this one - follow the same pattern established way back by the CMS; instead of a simple t-slot/mitre slot there’s a proprietary extrusion around the perimeter of the saw that handles all the accessories/moving parts, and I just don’t like it. 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop I can’t help but think this new saw Will development into a bigger unit. I guess I make you right it a old design.
Thanks for the reply Peter😊👍
Hope you enjoy your new saw should be good for small cuts, i had been looking into a new table saw and decided on the Axminster AT254SB waiting for stock to come inn and then they discontinued it I'm sure having lots of things on back order is having a big impact on their business with customers buying elsewhere.
great video there seems to be a gap in the market for a highly accurate job site size saw with a quiet and refined build but im looking forward to your video on the festool im really interested in how you get on with it
Thanks, and yes I agree. Looking forward to getting it! 👍
Looking forward to your experience. Here in the States the new CSC SYS 50 will be available later in the year. When I moved to a new shop, I got a small 10" table saw instead of a miter saw since I don't do much trim work that requires odd angles. Both are great sawdust dissemination machines. My home made cross cut sled works just fine to handle most of the small stuff and anything else gets the TS55 treatment. If I could replace that saw with one that has good dust collection, I could reduce the dust in my shop by 90%.
Nice video. I live in an apartment myself and I have been using Makita cordless track saw for a while as dare I say my first woodworking tool. I loved it for cutting long sheets on ply but when it comes to smaller pieces it's not ideal.
I would love to get a table saw unfortunately Festool is 2x my budget. Axminster saw looks perfect if not for it's weight as I might need to move it around from one room to another. 89kg is no joke.
Another option for almoat same price is Bosch 10XC and Dewalt 7492. I prefer the former.
Any advise on choosing the right saw from the mentioned would be welcome. Especially if you had any experience with the Bosch one. Thank you.
Great video thanks Peter, I'm considering this saw myself, though would rather it was corded, so looking forward to your review\ opinion once it arrives, thanks again hope you're well
Thanks! Honestly, I’d prefer it to be corded as well, but it’s intended for site work, which is principally cordless these days. 🤷♂️👍
Just got mine a few days ago , not used it on site yet 😊
Nice! 👌
Love your work 👍
I'm excited to see how you like it Peter. I'm even more excited to learn that the CSC SYS 50 is coming to the US later this year! I just wish it had the Sawstop technology in it.
Last week, I raised the same point with Peter about Sawstop technology. He pointed out that the technology requires an earthed supply which is not available on a battery tool. This makes sense to me.
That does make sense, but I still wish it had the finger saving technology.
Whoa! Coming to the US?? Ok, then. I'll take on a second job to start saving for one now. Or maybe a second mortgage. Lol
Good luck on this saw Peter, I have space and accessibility to SawStop so I dropped $2,200 US on one. Have to say for accuracy & performance, love it. Only nit, can't get a 45.5 angle nor a -0.5 as well, guess I'll have to break out tape to do that. Look forward to your overview. Long Live Green Machines!
Thanks! Love the look of the big sawstop! Shame we don’t get them here. 🤷♂️👍
'UA-cam millions', yes, I always suspected your workshop was actually just a film set, the actual carpentry is done by unseen apprentices and when you are not filming, you are sunning yourself in the Bahamas! Look forward to seeing that new table saw. I have the Festool cordless plunge saw and I must say it is an absolute dream to use on site. Hoping the table saw will be the same.
It's all true... 😂 😎 ☀️
Congrats on your new saw, the digital blade height adjuster looks very useful. I was waiting on the TKS 80 to be released 2 years ago and really wanted it for the sawstop functionality. I was under pressure to get a saw for a project at the time so I went with the erika 85 instead from Sauter, delighted with it.
An Erika 60 is about the same money or less than the CSC SYS 50, well worth consideration if it is for mainly workshop usage.
Thanks! Interesting - I think the digital blade height is a bit of a gimmick and cant see myself getting any benefit from it - but then I thought that about lasers on mitre saws as well... 🤷♂️ 😂
Great video yet again and I am definitely in the market for the festool . Storage is a problem for myself, and being able to store the saw in its on systainer makes sense. One thing , I can't help but wonder is you mentioned that you can't have a 16amp supply to a saw. Why not?
Thanks. Re the power supply question, there's a very long and convoluted answer to that, but the short version is I've been in the workshop ~20 years and it's just not going to happen. 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop oh ok. We will leave it there then. Thanks for the great video's
I ended up in the same space predicament. Although I have access to buy a SawStop CTS so I'm eagerly waiting for you to get your hands on the CSC50 to put it through its paces and see if its worth the price premium.
VERY jealous, looking forward to the videos where you use the saw in anger. Also, "Goldilocks saw..." love that!
Thanks Paul! Yes, looking forwards to using it! 😆
Been woodworking for 10+ years and I’ve recently been hearing people like you say I’ve had no use for a table saw and I have to say this blows my mind. I use my table saw on almost every job and find countless uses for it?
Only thing I ever really needed it for was very narrow rips, and cutting wedges - and I found other ways to do those too! 🤷♂️ A lot will depend on the kind of work you do, of course. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop modifying a kitchen cabinet that will require making two new drawers and adding support to the inside of this cabinet. All tasks going right to my TS, cut all of drawers to width & box joints on it then use it to cut supports to width. Use miter saw for length cuts and planer to get support down to proper thickness…before planer would have used TS for this. Guess I could do all by hand but too time consuming for me.
You are really pulling me along on this one Peter……
All jokes aside, interesting insight to your buying process. I 100% agree that you just don’t know how something will work for you until you get it back and try it in your own space / working environment
Cheers Doug! 👍
You know what I want? A vastly stripped down table saw, just the "guts". The motor, blade and adjustments for depth and angle, and a minimal table, so that I can mount it in a bench like people mount routers. I don't need a massive table, the workbench is the table. Some people do this with circular saw hacks, but they're not designed for that.
I'm personally also looking forward to see how festool saw performs. I also have very small workshop and have tracksaw for those bigger cuts but I often need a tablesaw also for repeating narrow cuts and accuracy.
Me too! 👍
The shop looks great Peter !
Can't wait to hear how you like the new saw. It is a very interesting design that hopefully offers the mobile carpenter high precision and repeatability.
The Sawstop josite saw is a pretty good saw and has pretty good dust collection. But the Festool would be lighter on an this aging carpenters joints. Best regards
Thanks! Yea, shame the Sawstop doesn’t make it over here. 🤷♂️👍
I got to this video because I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to accurately and repeatedly cut small pieces of wood (70 x 80mm) with a track saw. How did you do that before deciding to purchase a table saw? Have you done a video on this?
Yep, have a look at Tricky Tracksaw Cuts [video 460] ua-cam.com/video/ybSSZ5R31aI/v-deo.html
Great video, I purchased the Axminster 254 saw, less the sliding table due to space. I also prefer to use a table sledge.
I visited two of the tool suppliers that I use. One has stopped being a Festool supplier, and the other is strongly considering pulling the plug. Both are due to supply and pricing issues.
This has left me a little cold to future purchases. I have made many in the last few years. It was suggested that the UK base may be going??
Thanks! Haven’t heard anything to that effect, but interesting, and noted, thanks! 👍
Interesting choice, would have thought the TKS80 would have knocked it out of the park for you. I had to watch the UK Festool channel to get more details, and it’s kind of an anomaly to me. It does not appear to have the SawStop technology, and they seemed to have created another blade size, so compatibility with any track saw is out. But the digital features are geeking me out. Like the TKS80 (though SawStop just introduced a similar US variant), neither Festool variant will make it across the pond, so I will just have wait to see how you make on with it. Thanks for another well crafted video.
Thanks. Sawstop flesh-sensing tech requires an earth/ground which you don’t have in a cordless tool. I dislike the whole family of Festool cs 50/70, TKS 80 table saws as they all carry over the worst of the old CMS - no mitre slots, and a reliance of proprietary extrusion to handle accessories. Also the fence is an optional extra on the TKS80. 🤷♂️ CSC SYS 50 uses the same blades as the latest TS60 tracksaw btw, so there’ll be plenty of choice. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop lack of mitre slot would turn me off the TKS80 as well. The TS60 looks like an interesting addition, something else we won’t see stateside. Having the same blade size across plunge and mitre and mini table saw could yield a useful kit. Makes more sense now and thanks. Looking forward to seeing your review, but for me, I’ll stick with my Makita XGT 😉😀😏.
Great video Peter, I’ve just been going through the same dilemma myself. Just wondering why you dismissed the corded Festools?
Personally I am hoping the Festool Cordless tech eventually migrates to the corded variants.
Thanks. It’s purely a personal thing; all the Festool table saws - until this one - follow the same pattern established way back by the CMS. Instead of a simple t-slot/mitre slot there’s a proprietary extrusion around the perimeter of the saw that handles all the accessories/moving parts, and I just don’t like it, unfortunately. 🤷♂️👍
In my opinion, with that thorough of an analysis, one thing nobody could call you is a brand fanboy.
Which is actually a great unintentional advertisement for Festool after seeing how often you end up in that platform.
Ha! I’ll use anything, me! 😂👍
I love Festool and have a few myself. I watched the promotional video by Festool and it does seem good. However I did note that they only cut thin boards on it. I have my doubts about rip cutting solid timber with a battery saw. I have the Hikoki cordless bench saw and it eats through batteries and it doesn't last long when ripping solid timber. It can be mains supplied though and I don't think the Festool can. This was a problem for the earlier Festool track saws. They lacked power. The new ones have a much thinner blade to help overcome this. If I were you I would have asked to try a demo saw fora few days. Here in Australia the Festool rep will oblige if they have one available. Not sure in the UK.
Find me a video on the channel where you see me ripping any solid timber. 🤷♂️ As I say in the vid, it’s for small, precise cuts and narrow rips in small workpieces, it’s not for everyone and I’m not 100% sure it’s for me, but I’m prepared to fit it a try. And Festool UK wouldn’t lend me the time of day.
@@10MinuteWorkshop Why the angry reply .I have never seen anything on your channel. I am new to your channel. I'm commenting on the saw not you or your ability. Hope it's all you believe it to be. Best of luck with your projects.
@@messenger8279 I’m not angry at all. But you do seem to want to ascribe your use case of this saw to me, and as I’ve spent the entire video explaining, my requirements for a saw like this are very specific - small, quiet and precise, for repeatable cuts in thin stock. Yes, I’d prefer it to have a mains option, but it’s battery only; I don’t see that as being a huge problem, otherwise I wouldn’t have bought it. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I stated my business in a shop like yours in SW London 35 years ago. I totally understand your needs. The problem seems to be your ego. You're carrying on like a small child. Get over it mate Its just a saw. Hope it works out nd if it doesn't it's no big deal's it. Calm down mate.
Has the saw come in? Anxiously awaiting your review and the US release which seems to be at least 3 months away (although I would be surprised is they waited until the 3rd quarter of the year). When you do the review, can you measure the height of the Systainer. I can’t seem to find those specs anywhere online. I’m assuming it’s close to 22” (558 mm) based on the posted dimensions of the saw.
No, I still don’t have it yet. ‘Due any day now’ they say. 🤷♂️ And sure, I’ll measure the height against a regular stack of systainers. 👍
Be interested to see how you get on with this saw Peter, as I've been looking to replace my portable saw for quite some time🤔Unfortunately, I can only buy a new pencil with my UA-cam millions😆 Thanks for the video👍
A whole pencil?? You're doing better than me! I usually just nick them from Ikea... 😂
@@10MinuteWorkshop 😲
Good stuff, hope you really enjoy it Peter! We certainly don’t seem to have the choices that our chums across the water get - but that seems to be the case with most woodworking tools.
If you’d have gotten the expensive Axminster, I think it takes dado blades so people would have just complained anyway 😂
Thanks! And it’s already been mentioned that ‘the Festool won’t take a dado stack…’ 😂🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop 😂😂😂
That Milwaukee table battery powered one is shockingly good, and insanely quiet.
I have the dewalt with the rolling collapsible base and while it's extremely loud due to minimal construction around it, I love that saw heh
My working partner has the Milwaukee cordless we use quite often on the job..It's kind of heavy to move around, but I'm kind of old so it could be me. Accuracy is pretty good for being cordless, but as long as you know your limitations and don't try ripping gigantic sheets of plywood and such it's a decent job site saw. I have a SS 52" in the shop for heavy lifting so we're covered with the Milwaukee on the job in customers homes..It's about as loud as the typical cordless circular..I think it's built around the Milwaukee cordless circular..
Hello Peter, I have a small work space at my home in Seattle. How good is the Fest tool dust collection system in a small space?
Hi Charlie. It’s excellent hooked up directly to a Midi. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you.
Hello Peter,
That was a great diagnoses of saws available and to suit your requirements. We can all fall into a trap of the best of this best of that, but it’s down to exactly what you said, budget and what YOU really need it to do, not what someone else thinks, is the best since sliced bread. Etc,etc. For me I needed a site type saw that I could store away on its side when not in use, have a large top for support and budget of £600ish four years ago. I purchased the Bosch GTS10XC, would I recommend it? No, there’s too many inaccuracies in it which took a lot of effort to sort out. So I’ll be very interested like many others to see how you get on with this Festool. I’m always interested in what you do and say. Max
Thanks Max! Interesting what yoy say about the Bosch; that and the DeWalt come across as some of the better site saws out there, and I know more than a few folks who use them in the workshop as well. And yes, I'm interested to see what this saw is really capable of too! 👍
Hi Peter, have you chased up to see where your saw is? I finally committed to getting one after watching this video. I was supposed to have got it last week, but I was told Festool Germany was delayed until mid-April, and that's just the saw, the undercarriage delayed until May. Hope it's worth the wait. Are you going to do an unboxing and set up video?
Regards Mike
Hi Mike. I’ve been away, but no, no comment from anyone on the delivery. I need to base this up this week as it’s been a couple of months now. 🤷♂️👍
I can live without a miter/chop saw but never again will I be without a tracksaw or table saw. Tracksaw only for years and years but I never realized you can get by without a table saw but you’re only kidding yourself that it’s the better way. At least for me. Looking forward to the hybrid workflow
I was recently in the same position and went for the Festool FESTOOL TKS 80 EBS basic package. The only thing that made me buy the last one from Axminster it was the sawstop. As someone that has had an accident involving a power saw I was very interested in this feature. The rest of the saw is not up to the speck that I would expect from Festool, to many to mention here. Its not that it don't cut, it dose, and it cuts well, just little things that add up. If you ever want to do a review on it I would be happy for you to borrow it
Thanks, that’s kind of you, but I’ve had a pretty close look at a few of them and like you, didn’t really feel the ‘sum of the parts’ added up to what was being asked. I have mixed feelings about the sawstop tech, and on reflection I wasn’t prepared to put up with that saw just to have it. 👍👍
I'm glad you didn't end up with a Charnwood. The build quality on mine was unacceptable and it went back. I ended up with a 10inch sip which I loved to bits for a few years but it took up too much space in my 2 car garage. I've now got the titan bench top saw. For £100 it's amazingly capable. It's not accurate in the slightest but it works. The portability and small form factor make this festool look very tempting.
In which case I’m glad I didn’t end up with the Charnwood as well, lol! 👍
Wouldn't the Fusion 2 (and other 1.75hp saws) be 7A saws in the UK on 240V Power? For instance the F2 is rated at 1300W / 220-240V gets you roughly 6A of draw, not 13. The reason I ask is that before buying my sawstop I looked at the F2 and here in the states it is rated for 115V/14A, or 230V/7 Amp if it is rewired for 230V.
I think you will be happy with the Festool, the sliding table design looks really nice for that size saw
Thanks! I do mention the Fusion 2 in the bud as running happily off a regular 13A socket, but it’s physically too big for the space I have. 🤷♂️👍
Rookie question - Interested to know why you ruled using the band saw for small cuts?
With the best will in the world a bandsaw cut is n👍o match for a tracksaw/tablesaw cut.
@@10MinuteWorkshop I see - thanks! Looking forward to seeing the new saw in action.
Hi Peter, You said you can't get 16 amp service into your shop. What is the standard amperage in the UK? Love your work!
13amp@240v
It's actually on a 30A ring main, but I've been in the building ~20 years and a 16A feed ain't going to happen; it's to do with the infrastructure of the rest of the building more than my specific unit. 👍