I live in an apartment in Berlin, and got this for my birthday as a gift, It really quiet(compared to normal saws). I absolutely love it, I now tend to buy really quality tools, I think this will be the last table saw I buy so I decided to go for the tool I'll need for the next 10 years. I dont do big boards, and I have my track sled for when I do, or I ask at the wood store for more manegable cuts. I also dont think my life is in danger everytime I use it, which was my fear with other table saws. I do alot of mixed woodworking (kumiko, automatas,small furniture) and its really nice to set the height and go and the sled feel really nice. I did get rid of the scales I agree they were very clumsy and made me feel less safe using them. I also dont do alot of cuts so for 2 hours of cutting I need it the battery is more than enough. But all in all I would buy it again and im very happy for all the warranty it comes with.
Thanks! I’m really happy with my saw as well- it does exactly what I need, and if I pointed out any areas that could be improved it was just for information. Looking forward to using it on some projects, and like you I have a few add-ons in mind that will improve my use of the saw. 👍👍
@@danthechippie4439 ha yeah confusing, I bought it for myself as a gift to me! Its a got a pretty big price tag I really understand this, but I also said to myself You know what you deserve to have a nice tool. So, got 6 monthly payments, july is the last, and Im really happy.
I own the saw and mainly use it for kitchen cabinet fillers, I used to have the DeWalt table saw and the comparing the noise, weight and dust collection the Festool absolutely shines. I'm not on the battery platform so its a real pain as the 5ah batteries don't last long, but the new dual fast charger fully charges both in 20 minutes. I'll eventually buy another set of batteries, but perhaps this is what Festool wants by not supplying AC power!
That’s really interesting thanks! It’s a great saw, really looking forward to using it on projects. Size, weight, noise and dust extraction is excellent - I’ve no direct experience of eg the DeWalt, so really appreciate the feedback. Impressive investment considering you’re not on the battery platform, and thanks so much for taking the time to comment ! 🙌👍👍
Thanks for the information from another actual user of the saw.. I also own the small DeWalt 210mm table saw I got particularly it for its small footprint.. it's decent, However I can see how the festool would trump it for bathroom and kitchen fitters on site in small UK homes.. seems like a well thought out package..I am tempted..
Thanks Peter. I’d love to see how this saw packs up into its own systainer and onto a stack of systainers and how much work is involved in unpacking/repacking to get it all back together. Also looking forward to your cabinet build for underneath this!
Thank you Peter for an honest review. I respect that your opinion cannot be bought for a free or discounted product unlike a many UA-camrs so I listen to what you have to say before spending my money you’ve not been wrong so far. A bit like Paul and his Aldi chisels
Thank you! To be clear I’m very happy with the saw - it does exactly what I wanted, but it would be remiss if me not to mention areas that I feel could be improved. But I do think that battery-only is a mistake, and it’s costing them sales. 🤷♂️👍
This would be a great saw for fitters like you said, and hobbyists who work on smaller items, if not for the eye watering price. The wobbly fit is not something you expect when you pay so much money for a tool that's supposed to be precise. As for the cordless only, watch them release a mains adapter that plugs in the battery slot, will probably be at least £200.
Just had mine landed this morning with the Festool bench too. Well, I watched your video yesterday and I had major panic that I been wasted my money. But, no, this is the best saw I have used to date. Mine is perfect out of the box, no adjustment to the blade needed, the cut is one of the best I experienced. A very very refined saw indeed. Very quite in comparison to my Dewalt and less hectic when cutting. So far, it is a great purchase for me :)
Fantastic news, and perfect for the weekend too! It's a great saw, and I'm really pleased with it and while there are areas where they could be improved, that takes nothing away from the things it does so well - small, quiet, lightweight and with great dust collection. Excellent you had one that was bang-on out of the box, too. Thanks for taking the time to make this comment, much appreciated! 🙌 👍
Watching this with great interest because it looks *perfect* for mad hobbyist applications like building dollhouses and, let's face it, Warhammer scenery. Sticking my fingers in my ears and making la-la sounds about the price though.
I very much agree on the cordless vs mains power issue Peter. I bought the Hikoki 36v offering and then later invested in the mains adapter. I’m finding it a total game changer on many jobs, and the adapter will run my cordless mitre saw too (or any other Hikoki multi volt tool. Totally understand why you bought the Festool, but I guess my point is in agreeing with the mains power point.
Another excellent video, thank you, I agree whole heartedly with you I would have bought this saw had it had a mains option, and as you said it could easily offer both battery and mains options, silly old Festool! Thanks Peter, stay well and keep 'em coming
Glad to see you finally getting your hands on it. Eager to see what you do with your cabinet. Took me a bit, but I'm actually growing quite fond of my Saw Stop CTS. The more I use it the more it grows on me... Even if the saw was available to us here, after what I've seen and heard I'd have to pass on it.
You're absolutely right that it should also accept plug in power, and like you said, plugging in should also keep the batteries maintained. You have to be plugged in most of the time for dust extraction anyway, so yes a missed opportunity on Festool's part to get it right the first time. Maybe a future version will rectify this error.
I totally agree on the need for having at least a power cord option. Batteries on a table saw just don't last long enough and I certainly would not pay the extra money for the charher etc.
I asked the same question about the KSC60 I'm in the market for a brushless mitre saw (ALL tools should be brushless by now) but I dont want to be trapped in a situation where I have to pay x corporations battery tax from now until doomsday to use the tool ! batteries don't last forever and you have to replace them eventually, people dont know what the price of the batteries might be in 5 or so years time (especially from festool) or the state of their finances / the economy. having a cord option on expensive stationary, or high power demand tools is a MUST ! and I wont part with my cash unless they provide a mains adaptor for the KSC60 and other tools like the CSCSYS50
@@10MinuteWorkshop As you said in the Video Peter, battery buy in is an obstacle for many, especially when they already have lots of tools from other manufactures, they cant justify buying into yet another brands battery eco system. I think this effects Festool more than most as they have a smaller market share than companies like Makita and dewalt. The only issue is how much would festool charge for a 240v / 18v/36v adaptor ? if its north of £100 they will have exactly the same buy in issue.
It’s interesting watching this video AFTER I have already watched the later ones you made, in which you had clearly come to love the saw and some of the issues you were worried about when you first got the saw turned out to mostly be non-issues in the end! I really appreciate that you made the follow up videos, it’s always fantastic to see how a tool fits into the actual life of a maker, and how they feel about it over time. Like one of the earlier commenters on this video, I live in an apartment so noise is my main concern, and I essentially only work very small, so precision and ease of use are far more important to me than capacity. Definitely strongly considering this saw if I can mentally justify it to myself… I actually already own the apartment dweller’s dream mini table saw, the one made by Jim Byrnes of Byrnes Model Machines, which is tiny, shockingly powerful, belt driven so it’s super quiet, and insanely precise. Sadly, I just found out that Jim passed away last year, and the blades that fit his gorgeous machine don’t seem to be manufactured anymore, so at some point I may need to think about a different saw. Anyway, thank you so much for continuing to make these videos and give us your thoughts as they develop. It seems your current thoughts are “this saw is pretty darn great” 😁!
Thanks! I don’t need it to be battery powered , but other than that it’s everything I could ask for in a saw - small, precise, quiet and good dust collection. 👌👍
Thanks Pierre! It’s a great saw, but it would have been remiss of me not to mention the shortcomings! 👍👍 Really excited to hear about your next adventures btw! 🙌👍
My thoughts exactly, recently bought the new festool track saw tsv60 after having the festool cordless ts55 for few yrs, still had to connect the extraction so I opted for corded this time
I completely agree with you. Any tool that has to sit in one spot while being used should be able to be plugged in if power is available. Even my Ryobi One Plus fan can use a cord if I have an outlet available.
Great review of the saw. 2 design teams is a great perspective. I have a DeWalt jobsite saw in my shop for several reasons but what I find most intriguing about this saw is that it is actually the type of saw I would like. I have made jigs and fixtures to compensate for what is lacking in the DeWalt. Truly I think there is a market for hobbiest table saws that are intended for working with smaller pieces.
I completely agree! I think there's a big market for a small, quiet saw with great dust collection. Strip out the electronics, put in a power cord and get the price down a bit and they'd have a hit with the hobby market. 👍
I’m a Festool fan.we use the sanders, track saws, Domino, and routers in our small cabinet biz. They are a pleasure to use, and very robust tools that are worth their cost to professionals. We don’t use the battery platform at all, as we prefer Dewalt. We cut our fillers on site with a track saw. Corded or not, I can’t see a use for it in our daily work. And consider it crazy expensive for what it is. And BTW, the TS60 is corded here in the US. We use unitized hoses in the shop at every tool, making that saw a no go for us, much like Maffell. Festool strayed from the path on that one…
Thank you for the review! I bought a cheap table saw a few years ago. I've been dealing with several, sometimes dangerous, issues😤. A longer while ago, after lots of going back and forth, I finally bought a DeWalt DWE7485. And just several weeks later, Festool announced the CSC SYS 50. 😒 The compact size and portability would be great, as space in my basement woodshop is pretty limited and I sometimes visit my family to help with upkeeping and projects. Only downside would be another battery system. I wish the announcement came a bit sooner. If Festool comes up with some sort of power adapter, I'm pretty sure I'd buy the saw rather sooner than later. I remeber seeing a Festool AC 220-240V / 18V adapter somewhere in the past. It looked like a big battery pack with a Festool power cord connector. I know they offer a newer and smaller version for some of their sanders.
Informative review! Good to know of slop in miter guage & fence . Agree that its strange not to have the option of a power brick, I thought the same for the KSC 60 EB miter saw.
They absolutely need to make it work with mains power. Hikoki and DeWalt have proven that it is possible. The cordless Festool sanders already have a power adaptor, so why not make one for the other tools? It would make so much sense, especially for these newer additions. I have the KSC60, and it's absolutely wonderful cutting trim all day with a set of batteries. But when you need to do more production work, which even happens on site sometimes, it'd be really nice to be able to plug in and not need to worry about it. My main gripe is that I would love a cordless dust extractor. I have the corded ctl mini, but I can't replace it with the cordless, because sometimes it's for the tracksaw and cleanup, other times I spend hours sanding on a job. I can't justify buying 2 full size vacuums and having to pack the van according to the use case that day. I'd gladly pay a premium to have 2 in 1 hybrid tool that can run cordless when I need it. What I also noticed that a lot of manufacturers only improve upon their cordless tools. If you want the better feature set, you have to go cordless even if you use it in a production/workshop environment. It only adds cost and weight in a lot of cases. Anyways, thanks for the video, great stuff as usual!
Completely agree, was disappointed to see that both battery and cabled power was not available. Probably wont be an option for me until they provide a cable-powered unit.
Great review Peter. It’s definitely odd that Festool haven’t didn’t include Sawstop, given their ownership. Only one of their saws includes it, the TKS80. I have it and would not recommend - the fence in particular is just plain bad.
From someone who works in a dealership in Belgium. Our representative came in with the big news of the tablesaw and the brochure with most the info on it. The tablesaw looked pretty incredible on paper and so shiny and new :D Now it was either November or December (can't quite remember) that the pre-order became available. The customers who bought the full setup of the table saw AND PAID UP FRONT all received a free sawblade for their new tablesaw. The sawblades came in a couple of weeks after the pre orders. The table saws we all knew we had to wait till I beleive they said somewhere in February (I really could be mistaken) where they would be available. Tho as mentioned there were huge delays. We got our shipment of the units I believe about a month ago. So we literally had a couple of customers who paid a couple grant up front and had to wait half a year on their tablesaw. I'm amazed no one actually cancelled their order..... Worst part is, the stands and the tablesaws came in several weeks from each other. So our customers got notified their order came in, but it was only the table saw stand, which of course you can't do shit with. This whole ordeal ofcourse was a horrible expereince for customer and dealer alike... And meanwhile some of the competing stores in our region had their table saw units in, a couple of months before ours... Long story short, we had to wait half a year for our stock to come in, but now we're one of the very few stores in our region that still has a few in stock 😅
Good to know, thanks. It does seem to have been a clusterfcuk of a new product launch. I felt bad for the dealer cancelling my order to buy from Amazon of all places, but then he had my money for 4 months, so there's a limit on how bad I can feel... 🤷♂️ 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I get it! For me personally though I really got annoyed and embarrassed to keep telling our customers their order still didn't come in and we have not a single clue when it'll be here...
Peter, Thanks for the review. I think that where Festool has missed the mark is that this tool only covers a very narrow and specific market and NOTHING ELSE. So, if you are a home remodeler, or custom maker where there is no power, then this thing might make sense. Otherwise, as you pointed out, this thing just doesn't cut it at the cost they are offering it at with the feature set it offers. Many other people besides the above narrow market buy Festool products, me being one of them. I like their quality and unique features (Domino). I also own a router and 2 sanders. But they are probably the best or one of the best tools in their part of the market. At a reasonable price. So it is Festool that is going to lose out in the end here by missing a huge swath of the portable saw market. Furthermore, since Festool became known to the left side of the pond, the competition has become much more competitive in terms of features and level of quality at a much lower cost. Have fun with this thing but I will pass.
I initially liked the look of it to replace my old Inca table saw but the battery situation did put me off. In fact it stopped me buying festool drills too as I’m thinking of just investing in the CAS battery system instead. I might change my mind in the future but I’ll Probably look for a discontinued Mafell erika 60.
I think for what it is, it's an outstanding job site saw...pricey as ever which is par for the course for festool....the slide on it is an awesome option IMO...just a super nice little saw....
Excellent review. I agree that there should be a corded version and fit and finish should be better at this price. Where I work there is always power so I don't need to pay more for a cordless version especially as I don't already have festool charger and batteries.
I was looking everywhere for one of these - not available in South Africa yet - and I think you’ve spared me from importing one 😬 I had high hopes for this and I am shocked and disappointed with the lack of quality- very un-Festool indeed. Thanks a million Peter - I really trust your reviews and advice. Always appreciated 🙏🏻👍🏻
Thanks! This is a great saw! It does everything I wanted and I’m looking forward to using it on projects. But it would have been remiss of me not to mention the obvious shortcomings, and areas for improvement. If you want a small, quiet, accurate saw with great dust collection, then there’s not much else to consider in this price range. 👍
Thank you for this video. I have this saw for several of months now and i am using it for installing kitchens. I am very happy with it and it works very accurately. It is very easy to take with you to your workspace. Indeed the only problem are the batteries. I use 2 5ah batteries and i have to replace them a lot during the day. I hope the 8ah batteries will come soon, that might solve the problem, except for the high cost of these batteries. Otherwise Festool should really look at a 230v solution.
Thanks for the information, that's really interesting and great to hear from someone using the saw as intended! I really like saw, it does everything I want in a small table saw, and for working in smaller spaces - wether that's a UK workshop or a kitchen install - it's well thought through. But I do think there should be the option to run mains power, battery-only is a mistake.
Being a kitchen fitter myself I use the new tsv60 more than a table saw, I only use a table saw to rip down infill and plinths if they don’t need scribing , just wondering how much you would use this table saw than the track saw?
It’s an honest first impression from someone who put a chunk of change down to buy the saw. It would be remiss of me not to point out the obvious areas for improvement. 👍👍
Strange that you can find little use for the precise height adjustment. Especially for its intended use I can see that being quite useful for kerfing or cutting a precise rebate.
Great review thank you. I’ve been looking forward to this tool for a while my rep says it should be out this fall in the state’s but I completely agree that the biggest head scratcher and my biggest hold up on purchase is the need for battery’s. If I’m buying something festool I plan to have it for 10 years or better so it’s worth the upfront cost but I don’t like the idea of having to constantly put more money in over the years to purchase repurchase and update batteries
Excellent review/overview. If I were a professional cabinet maker/installer I’d have a very hard time NOT buying that saw. It has all the precision, cleanliness and portability expected from Festool. Like you mention, the only hesitation for me would be there isn’t a power cord option, big drawback, especially considering some earlier comments with regard to battery longevity while on site.
Cheers Paul! It’s a great saw - I’m just pointing out the obvious areas that could be improved here as it would be remiss of me not to - but I’m really pleased with it and how it performs. Dust collection is great, it’s small and quiet. The battery ‘issue’ may be resolved in time, so we’ll keep an eye on that! 👍
The cord issue is everywhere. I just recently looked into a graft for my Dewalt tools. I was thinking of how useful the leaf blower, set low, could be to draw away harmful vapour and dusts. On does notice while running it how happy it is to suck up one's trousers through its rear placed accumulator. However, oddly, that tool burns through batteries at an insane rate, compared even to chain saws, which is worth it when one in in the yard, but for a stationary use, an adapter and cord would be great. And Dewalt has all kinds of suppliers who leach onto the system, so even if Dewalt is standing firm on it's battery sales, I thought someone in China would have seized the opportunity. Nope.
love the review. I could care less about cordless myself so that alone is a buzz-kill in trying to move away from a cabinet style table saw to using my track saw and this unit. Guess I'll have to look at another manufacturer for my portable/foldable saw needs.
Thanks for the video. Yes I'm interested and on the festool and Makita battery platforms..(20/80) I'd be interested in a battery life per foot of 18mm mdf.. totally with you on the mains power supply and the lack of one make this even more of a niche tool than it needs to be..As you say if I was fitting kitchens and bathrooms most weeks I'd definitely be interested.. really looking forward to you putting this machine through its paces..thanks again
Re: the head-scratching design decisions, Peter I'm not sure if you're familiar with the term "strategy tax", which was thought up to describe how big tech companies like Microsoft would deliberately cripple software products in one area to support sales of their apps in another area. Festool is more than big enough now to be prey to these kinds of corporate power plays.
sorry I m not , for comfort using ,saw have to be conect to vacum which is corded, so whats is point ? you have to turn vacum first and then saw, best choice is for power and for batery too. in this time its not a big deal technology,
Like you, I'd have thought a mains powered option would be the business. I'm surprised that a digital fence isn't incorporated too - probably _only_ cost another €1000 or so 😁😁 I do like the size and quietness over my dewalt 745 - still scares the living $hit out of me when I switch it on.
Agree, it would be a way better proposition if it was also a battery charger and the whole saw could operate off of mains, too - and the digital fence would also be pretty obvious if you're already that gimmicky.
Great watch Peter Some valuable information Looks a bit flimsy for the cost but as you say depends what you want the saw for & no power lead Festool messed up there .. 👍🔨
Very interesting Peter. As I am not on the Festool battery platform then without a power cord it is a definitive negative. Seems to be aimed at a fitter already on the Festool battery platform.
Nicely balanced review Peter 👍🏻 If they could have rounded it up to a 300mm rip it would be so much more useful, shame as I’d like one but it wouldn’t suite my work all for the sake of 20mm.
Another mistake was not using the now famous 20 mm hole system for the saw feet. Loving my saw also, but i wish i could swap out the feet to work into my bench top or my own stands
Nice review. I agree the cordless only option is a non-starter for me but being in the US, this is probably a mute point given the numerous Festool products that are not available here. I have been burned by Festool batteries before on the CDD12 drill/driver so am not inclined to ever get another Festool cordless again. It would make sense to me if Festool just offered a mains conversion adapter to plug into the battery port to resolve this. I find the precise blade height important for the work I do but I suspect that most people will just likely use it for through cuts. Steve
I think Dewalt must be part of the cabal as well; the mitre fence on my 10” table saw is another case of ‘it fits where it touches’ To use Peter’s car analogy it’s like they’re all made by Lada.
Great video! Thank you for posting! 🙌I was immediately drawn to this saw as I use other festool tools and currently own a dewalt jobsite saw that could be upgraded. But feel like I dont want to commit to this festool saw with it being battery only. Love all the other features its offers, like the sliding table, auto adjusting blade and that its super compact, the dust extraction etc. But the battery only is 100% putting me off. And would love to see the sawstop tech in a mains powered option of this saw (that would tick all the boxes for me).
On the subject of the sloppy fit of the fences, I would think this is a deliberate decision so that you get the best accuracy in cutting and it's safer. If the rip fence was a snug fit, you might think you'd locked it and then have it move. Not good! When you have the rigidity and acuracy of the sliding table would you really want to use even a decently fitting sliding fence which is never going to be as good? I concede that it would give you more ripping length so it's swings and roundabouts I guess. Great video, thanks.
Very nice and well explained video Peter , I have the TKS80 and find it a real struggle to carry it to the job site , this might just fit the bill , pity Festool didn’t give customers the option to have dual power ,battery or 240v
When I first saw your previous video covering this, I was really excited about the technology, especially the electronic height adjust and beveling. Now having seen your initial thoughts I've got to say I'm now on the fence as you make some excellent points. Ok so the electronics are clever, but when would you really really need this? As long as you're cutting above the board, you're right, who cares how far above it you go exactly? And I also own the same inexpensive electronic angle finder. So I've got to say it's dampened my enthusiasm as a 'game changer' product. Great insights Peter.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like the saw, it the wiz-bang tech stuff leaves me cold and there’s room for improvement in other areas that are probably more important to most woodworkers. 🤷♂️👍
I was trying to work out when 0.1mm adjustments were needed. Cupboard face frames? Some half laps? I guess the ability to go back and reset to a given depth could be handy
I'm in a unique situation compared to others as I live in the US but do expect to relocate back to the UK at some point in the future. Buying the cordless range will allow me to keep the equipment when switching countries. Very interested to see your cabinet build as I will likely want to do the same, interested to see if you build a solution to expand the table extension in some way.
Great review. I’m fully invested into the 18v Festool range with about 9 batteries but this saw is surely aimed at hobbyists and won’t be getting it. As a site carpenter I stay away from the big sites these days and never really have to take my generator as a result. So my 110v kapex and cs70 are fine .
It seems to be a common thing with every table saw you buy that you get a worthless miter gauge. I was hoping festool ticked all the boxes for the money you spend. Sawstop are no different I had to upgrade mine. And let’s no forget Amazon I always laugh when they say free delivery we all know nothing is free. As always Peter another great review thanks
Thanks! To be fair, as I say in the vid the mitre gauge locks down securely, so you’re clearly intended to use the sliding table - but it could be a lot better! 👍
Thank you, for convicing me not to want to buy it. I was thinking to buy a small cordless table saw as my shop is tiny. You helped me to keep my money in my pocket and not waste them on it. For me, its price is huge, and I would have paid it only if it would have been perfect and came with at least 4 batteries and a two ports charger. Many thanks, again, and be well.
Thanks! To be clear, it’s a great saw and does everything I wanted. But it would also be remiss if me not to point out the obvious areas for improvement. 🤷♂️👍
I love the way it adjust the height of the blade when doing angles! takes the guesswork out, Does any saw have a decent 'blade guard that people dont just take off? unlike Festool I have the RTSC 400 Li (which is cordless but with the adaper to plug it into the cord for mains use! A China outsource? does not sound or look like full German engineering to me, be perfect for me and I'm a Festool fan but the price!!!
Hi Peter, great review, yes I thought the same regarding the batteries, I would have considered buying if it was corded, disappointed in the finish quality and I also thought the digital adjustment on the blade a gimmick. Just like the shaper , too much money for something that you can do the same job cheaper using something else and anything unique about these tools would only be used infrequently, I think you can get sucked into buying these tools from festool and shaper but at the end of the day you have to ask your self for the money have much use would you get out of it , Thanks for your review 👍
It would have been remiss of me not to point out the obvious areas that could be improved, and things that I’m a little underwhelmed with, but this is a great saw if you have the need for what it does ie small, quiet, lightweight, accurate and with great dust collection - there aren’t many that would tick those boxes! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop yes great point but not for the £ I’m not convinced especially when I have the tsv60 now. For a small workshop and small projects it’s ideal especially if they put a power cord on it, hopefully they will on mk2 Saying that I may still buy but wait to see if they bring out a corded version to rip down infills and plinths That’s for replying , great videos by the way 👍
Ha ha. My 15yr-old cheapo Wickes table saw has tighter tolerances than that (but not much else, it must be said). I'm guessing not including mains power means they can skip a whole load of compliance testing and expense. Looks very nice, but I'm waiting for Makita to release one as I'm locked into their battery ecosystem 😢
I don’t think you guys have this in the UK, but I bought the mini Sawstop, the CTS, for $899 and at 68 lbs, it’s not super light but definitely in line with other compact saws. I was speaking with Jason Bent, who was helping at the Recharge Event in Toronto, and I didn’t get the impression from him that CSC 50 was an upgrade from my little Sawstop.
@@10MinuteWorkshop It's unfortunate because the CTS really is a great and affordable solution for many people. We still have people that scoff at the $899 price tag, but after going to the Emergency Room for a minor a laceration last year (not related to a table saw), after insurance, it was about $300.
1.8mm kerf and no flat-ground blades (yet) I just don’t think rebates and grooves are really the intended use for this. And yes, it would have been nice to see the digital stuff transfer to the fence where, arguably it would be if more use. 👍
A couple of years ago was looking for a compact table saw, would have gone for a mafell erika if wasn't so expensive ended up with an axminster 10" and put it on wheels...
I have some Mafell (MT55cc, P1cc) and some Festool (KS120, DF 700) tools. While the concept of the CSC SYS 50 is interesting, I think I will choose an Erika push/pull saw for my next purchase.
I keep looking for a small portable saw, and that size is exactly right for what i want it for. However theres no chance of me paying that price. I keep hoping milwaukee, makita or metabo will do one, not even bothered if its mains or battery, just a small portable saw. Cheers.
The cordless aspect of it is less of an issue for me. I use pretty much all cordless Festool tools anyway. What’s beyond me is the high precision blade height and angle in combination with mediocre fence and miter gauge adjustments. It’s the main reason why this Festool is off my list and unlikely ever be.
This saw is something I've been wanting but price point is an absolute joke and I was so underwhelmed by the battery life of the battery plunge saw which got sold almost as fast as I bought it. Thank you for your honest review and willingness to point out it's short falls. BTW also fell into the same supply issue with the CTM midi when it was first released. Told it would be days and that turned i to months. I assumed i was an isolated case but may be the festool way unfortunately.
Thanks! You’re not alone - lots of folks can’t seem to get beyond the price - but it was dead-centre of all the saws I looked at price-wise, about a grand more than the cheapest, and a grand less than the most expensive. 🤷♂️👍
I enjoy your videos. This seems to be more of a toy than a serious tool. Seems like Festool wanted a table saw to fit in a certain size box but with certain gizmos to justify the high price. Thank you for the review.
I get the height adjustment. If you want to do trenching or rebates it’s ideally if you can adjust .mm at a time. I do agree about mains power though. I certainly wouldn’t buy it with that restriction. I wish more tools were hybrid powered.
As always Peter a useful review that i can trust, i use my festool tools alot and although over priced they really are the best, i have the Laguna Fusion 3 cabinet saw here in the UK, Northern Ireland and it suits my work where i need to cut stock that would simply overwhelm this little saw but as you so rightly say, this little saw shines with finish work and trims, thankyou for another excellent review and i think Festiol should reward you with two new Bluetooth batteries complimentary, stay safe pal, regards Louie
@@10MinuteWorkshop I think Pete if Festool where selling the time of day theirs would be by far the most expensive! Keep up the great reviews because your reviews are always worth taking time out to listen, learn and enjoy, cheers Louie Northern Ireland UK.
rack and pinion fence should have been the way to go, too many compromises in this thing to appeal to the majority of users. i get its portable, but so are most site saws, cut capacity is laughable, and i can see the electronics giving trouble long term. i appreciate the quiet motor, but thats about it.
@@10MinuteWorkshop then who is it for peter? it was made to be portable, but i cant see why, its a precision saw , i can see it appealing to a narrow band of home craftsmen who make smaller objects, box makers maybe. not trying to be argumentative but outside of cutting small filler pieces for kitchen fitters and ripping smaller trim pieces i cant see the point of battery power only, the capacity is too small for making furniture larger than side tables, i just think they have missed the mark when designing this. if it had a better fence system and mitre guage, a slightly larger footprint of a dewalt or milwaulkie (similar weights) they would have sold truckloads, i think this will go the way of their previous attempts at tablesaws, quietly withdrawn after a few years due to low sales figures. i wish you joy with yours however and am happy to be proved wrong. regards.
I'm not on the Festool battery platform but I own some corded Festool tools. The fact that this saw is battery only is a deal breaker for me. I really was excited for this saw until I learned it was battery only. The saw would be sitting in my shop all the time and I don't really want or need anything battery powered from Festool so it would be ridiculous for me to have batteries only for this tool.
For it's intended use it's not bad... but I can certainly see your gripes and they would bother me too. It all makes a lump of old iron look like great value probably with better tolerances with a similar amount of calibratrion for shop use (I realise your limitations, insurance etc are an issue!).
Hi Peter, I have joked with you on the short that you were going to cost me money by buying this saw as I had dominoes because of you. However you are spot on with the cordless element. Not only do you have to have two batteries to run the saw, if you have no power you need cordless extraction too, more batteries. My situation, as many in 🇬🇧, is space not power. I want precision & reliability in a smaller package At the moment I am keeping my wallet shut, unless you keep telling me it is brilliant of course 😁
Oh, it is brilliant! It's everything I want in a table saw - small, quiet, accurate, modern, fully compliant with health & safety, great dust collection. Don't let the fact that I'm pointing out areas that could be improved put you off, just be aware of what they are. Also, have a search for the comment from my friends at Sautershop - sounds interesting! 👍
Should be corded. Solar power bank with AC inverter today are very powerful and has more capacity in comparison with 2 festool small battery. The price is also going down with 1100W capacity and 2400w load capacity, only cost around $700 this days, they last 3000 cycle and can be use for any other power cord tools.
Great vid and thanks for posting. Thought the digital height adjustment looked gimmicky and not needed. A digital read out on the fence would be far more useful.
Am I the only one who thinks that the powered height and angle is as much about space as anything else? If these were adjusted manually where would the handwheels be situated? What diameter would they be? Would they be ergonomic to use?
The mitre is sufficient for quite precise trims and grooves, would love extra height but can live it for now. Initially I did buy "just" the saw, like yourself, but then l came to realise the importance and flexibility of the stand as l move it around the room, since l use the Kapex close by, the extension Rails (KA-UG-KS), coming at the obviously the same height as the saw acting as a perfect support for longer panels. The metal surface is better than just stacking some systainers or the mft, custom building pieces/stands/supports are of course another option, but it defies the point of simply getting on with it, as well as the more unified look, albeit at the additional cost. But you wouldn't even consider Festool if that was an issue😜😅
It's the most precise saw I've ever owned, and I'm really happy with it - but it would have been remiss of me not to mention the obvious areas for improvement! The stand is really nice, and clearly well thought out as part of the system, but it was just too big for my workspace, at least for where I want the saw to go. If I expected to be moving the saw around then it would be perfect, but I don't. 👍
Great review, Peter. I kind of feel reassured I went for the Makita. I know it’s not really comparable, but at least I knew I was getting the imperfect article. I’d be very disappointed if I bought this at more than 5x the price!
My bandsaw mitre fence has lots of slop in it, Other I've looked at also seem to be less than a good fit just wonder if the manufacturers build in slop to stop jams Fromm dust in the fence slot. What to me is the most disappointing aspect of saw (and most or all new ones) is the lack of 'micrometer' adjustment to the fence - my 70 year old table saw has such.
Especially considering the digital dingus for height & angle. You might be right about allowing for dust build-up, but an odd consideration given the big deal that Festool (justifiably) make of their dust extraction. 👍
![Cutting The (tablesaw) Cord 1 Year Later [video 573]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T5_9DQJC4v8/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why Buy This Saw? [video 516]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/u7H5On0j_5c/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi Peter, Had the Festool guys here this week, and regarding the battery/cord issue I can only say... Patience, they may surprise you.
Ooo, interesting, thanks! 😆👍
Extremely interesting
Very much so. Shall start saving up immediately 😊
Good to know, thank you 👍🏼
Surprise us with a £200 mains adapter maybe😉
I live in an apartment in Berlin, and got this for my birthday as a gift, It really quiet(compared to normal saws). I absolutely love it, I now tend to buy really quality tools, I think this will be the last table saw I buy so I decided to go for the tool I'll need for the next 10 years. I dont do big boards, and I have my track sled for when I do, or I ask at the wood store for more manegable cuts. I also dont think my life is in danger everytime I use it, which was my fear with other table saws. I do alot of mixed woodworking (kumiko, automatas,small furniture) and its really nice to set the height and go and the sled feel really nice. I did get rid of the scales I agree they were very clumsy and made me feel less safe using them. I also dont do alot of cuts so for 2 hours of cutting I need it the battery is more than enough. But all in all I would buy it again and im very happy for all the warranty it comes with.
Thanks! I’m really happy with my saw as well- it does exactly what I need, and if I pointed out any areas that could be improved it was just for information. Looking forward to using it on some projects, and like you I have a few add-ons in mind that will improve my use of the saw. 👍👍
Did you buy the saw or get it as a gift? You mentioned both
@@danthechippie4439 ha yeah confusing, I bought it for myself as a gift to me! Its a got a pretty big price tag I really understand this, but I also said to myself You know what you deserve to have a nice tool. So, got 6 monthly payments, july is the last, and Im really happy.
What is an “automatas”?
I own the saw and mainly use it for kitchen cabinet fillers, I used to have the DeWalt table saw and the comparing the noise, weight and dust collection the Festool absolutely shines. I'm not on the battery platform so its a real pain as the 5ah batteries don't last long, but the new dual fast charger fully charges both in 20 minutes. I'll eventually buy another set of batteries, but perhaps this is what Festool wants by not supplying AC power!
That’s really interesting thanks! It’s a great saw, really looking forward to using it on projects. Size, weight, noise and dust extraction is excellent - I’ve no direct experience of eg the DeWalt, so really appreciate the feedback. Impressive investment considering you’re not on the battery platform, and thanks so much for taking the time to comment ! 🙌👍👍
Wow 20 minutes for 2x4.0ah batteries is fast!
@@Smithb83 no sir, 20 minutes for 2 5.2ah batteries! I couldn’t believe it either. It’s festool new battery fast dual charger
Thanks for the information from another actual user of the saw.. I also own the small DeWalt 210mm table saw I got particularly it for its small footprint.. it's decent, However I can see how the festool would trump it for bathroom and kitchen fitters on site in small UK homes.. seems like a well thought out package..I am tempted..
Thanks Peter. I’d love to see how this saw packs up into its own systainer and onto a stack of systainers and how much work is involved in unpacking/repacking to get it all back together.
Also looking forward to your cabinet build for underneath this!
Not something I ever expect to do tbh, but I’ll bear it in mind. 👍
Thank you Peter for an honest review. I respect that your opinion cannot be bought for a free or discounted product unlike a many UA-camrs so I listen to what you have to say before spending my money you’ve not been wrong so far. A bit like Paul and his Aldi chisels
Thank you! To be clear I’m very happy with the saw - it does exactly what I wanted, but it would be remiss if me not to mention areas that I feel could be improved. But I do think that battery-only is a mistake, and it’s costing them sales. 🤷♂️👍
"hold onto your halleluiahs" Jeeez, you crack me up Peter.
😆 Couldn’t resist! 😂
This would be a great saw for fitters like you said, and hobbyists who work on smaller items, if not for the eye watering price. The wobbly fit is not something you expect when you pay so much money for a tool that's supposed to be precise.
As for the cordless only, watch them release a mains adapter that plugs in the battery slot, will probably be at least £200.
Gouging at its finest...😂
Just had mine landed this morning with the Festool bench too. Well, I watched your video yesterday and I had major panic that I been wasted my money. But, no, this is the best saw I have used to date. Mine is perfect out of the box, no adjustment to the blade needed, the cut is one of the best I experienced. A very very refined saw indeed. Very quite in comparison to my Dewalt and less hectic when cutting. So far, it is a great purchase for me :)
Fantastic news, and perfect for the weekend too! It's a great saw, and I'm really pleased with it and while there are areas where they could be improved, that takes nothing away from the things it does so well - small, quiet, lightweight and with great dust collection. Excellent you had one that was bang-on out of the box, too. Thanks for taking the time to make this comment, much appreciated! 🙌 👍
Watching this with great interest because it looks *perfect* for mad hobbyist applications like building dollhouses and, let's face it, Warhammer scenery. Sticking my fingers in my ears and making la-la sounds about the price though.
"for Warhammer scenerey..." Yah... who doesn't think of that first when seeing the saw.... ^^
@@l.k.1011 hey even nerds use power tools
@@nicholascaldwell6079 Very true and I like the Warhammer universe as well!
I very much agree on the cordless vs mains power issue Peter. I bought the Hikoki 36v offering and then later invested in the mains adapter. I’m finding it a total game changer on many jobs, and the adapter will run my cordless mitre saw too (or any other Hikoki multi volt tool. Totally understand why you bought the Festool, but I guess my point is in agreeing with the mains power point.
I would absolutely love that digital height display for dado cuts.
I thought it was "illegal" for those in the EU and Britain to cut dadoes. Here in Canada my SawStop can handle dado blades.
@@peterdurand3098 I'm in the US... land of the brave and free to cut your hand off
@@flboy77 Not with a Saw Stop.🙂
Fair! Im just a poor boy, can’t even afford the Festool let alone the Saw Stop
Nice job mate. I agree on the power. I wish they did that on the cordless Kapex too. I’d love cordless but also want the option to plug in.
Thanks Drew! It’s a great saw, but has some obvious areas for improvement. 👍👍
Another excellent video, thank you, I agree whole heartedly with you I would have bought this saw had it had a mains option, and as you said it could easily offer both battery and mains options, silly old Festool! Thanks Peter, stay well and keep 'em coming
Glad to see you finally getting your hands on it. Eager to see what you do with your cabinet. Took me a bit, but I'm actually growing quite fond of my Saw Stop CTS. The more I use it the more it grows on me...
Even if the saw was available to us here, after what I've seen and heard I'd have to pass on it.
You're absolutely right that it should also accept plug in power, and like you said, plugging in should also keep the batteries maintained. You have to be plugged in most of the time for dust extraction anyway, so yes a missed opportunity on Festool's part to get it right the first time. Maybe a future version will rectify this error.
It's meant for a jobsite. Of course it's gonna be cordless
I totally agree on the need for having at least a power cord option. Batteries on a table saw just don't last long enough and I certainly would not pay the extra money for the charher etc.
I asked the same question about the KSC60 I'm in the market for a brushless mitre saw (ALL tools should be brushless by now) but I dont want to be trapped in a situation where I have to pay x corporations battery tax from now until doomsday to use the tool ! batteries don't last forever and you have to replace them eventually, people dont know what the price of the batteries might be in 5 or so years time (especially from festool) or the state of their finances / the economy. having a cord option on expensive stationary, or high power demand tools is a MUST ! and I wont part with my cash unless they provide a mains adaptor for the KSC60 and other tools like the CSCSYS50
I agree. It’s a daft decision not to provide main-power as an alternative, as it’s costing them short-term sales. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop As you said in the Video Peter, battery buy in is an obstacle for many, especially when they already have lots of tools from other manufactures, they cant justify buying into yet another brands battery eco system.
I think this effects Festool more than most as they have a smaller market share than companies like Makita and dewalt.
The only issue is how much would festool charge for a 240v / 18v/36v adaptor ? if its north of £100 they will have exactly the same buy in issue.
It’s interesting watching this video AFTER I have already watched the later ones you made, in which you had clearly come to love the saw and some of the issues you were worried about when you first got the saw turned out to mostly be non-issues in the end! I really appreciate that you made the follow up videos, it’s always fantastic to see how a tool fits into the actual life of a maker, and how they feel about it over time.
Like one of the earlier commenters on this video, I live in an apartment so noise is my main concern, and I essentially only work very small, so precision and ease of use are far more important to me than capacity. Definitely strongly considering this saw if I can mentally justify it to myself… I actually already own the apartment dweller’s dream mini table saw, the one made by Jim Byrnes of Byrnes Model Machines, which is tiny, shockingly powerful, belt driven so it’s super quiet, and insanely precise. Sadly, I just found out that Jim passed away last year, and the blades that fit his gorgeous machine don’t seem to be manufactured anymore, so at some point I may need to think about a different saw.
Anyway, thank you so much for continuing to make these videos and give us your thoughts as they develop. It seems your current thoughts are “this saw is pretty darn great” 😁!
Thanks! I don’t need it to be battery powered , but other than that it’s everything I could ask for in a saw - small, precise, quiet and good dust collection. 👌👍
Absolutely brilliant first review. Thanks a lot Peter!
Thanks Pierre! It’s a great saw, but it would have been remiss of me not to mention the shortcomings! 👍👍 Really excited to hear about your next adventures btw! 🙌👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Completely agree. Love the honesty. And thank you, cant wait to start shooting videos on the farm
Battery only is a no go for me. Same as routers/track-saws. You still have the extractor hose so might as well have the power lead.
My thoughts exactly, recently bought the new festool track saw tsv60 after having the festool cordless ts55 for few yrs, still had to connect the extraction so I opted for corded this time
I completely agree with you. Any tool that has to sit in one spot while being used should be able to be plugged in if power is available. Even my Ryobi One Plus fan can use a cord if I have an outlet available.
Thanks so much - i hope very much that Festool pays attention to your excellent review
Great review of the saw. 2 design teams is a great perspective.
I have a DeWalt jobsite saw in my shop for several reasons but what I find most intriguing about this saw is that it is actually the type of saw I would like. I have made jigs and fixtures to compensate for what is lacking in the DeWalt.
Truly I think there is a market for hobbiest table saws that are intended for working with smaller pieces.
I completely agree! I think there's a big market for a small, quiet saw with great dust collection. Strip out the electronics, put in a power cord and get the price down a bit and they'd have a hit with the hobby market. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yes it doesn’t need bells and whistles, just simple setup. The sliding table is great.
I’m a Festool fan.we use the sanders, track saws, Domino, and routers in our small cabinet biz. They are a pleasure to use, and very robust tools that are worth their cost to professionals. We don’t use the battery platform at all, as we prefer Dewalt. We cut our fillers on site with a track saw. Corded or not, I can’t see a use for it in our daily work. And consider it crazy expensive for what it is. And BTW, the TS60 is corded here in the US. We use unitized hoses in the shop at every tool, making that saw a no go for us, much like Maffell. Festool strayed from the path on that one…
Thank you for the review!
I bought a cheap table saw a few years ago. I've been dealing with several, sometimes dangerous, issues😤.
A longer while ago, after lots of going back and forth, I finally bought a DeWalt DWE7485. And just several weeks later, Festool announced the CSC SYS 50. 😒
The compact size and portability would be great, as space in my basement woodshop is pretty limited and I sometimes visit my family to help with upkeeping and projects. Only downside would be another battery system. I wish the announcement came a bit sooner. If Festool comes up with some sort of power adapter, I'm pretty sure I'd buy the saw rather sooner than later. I remeber seeing a Festool AC 220-240V / 18V adapter somewhere in the past. It looked like a big battery pack with a Festool power cord connector. I know they offer a newer and smaller version for some of their sanders.
Been using this saw for a lot of fitting work and with the adjustable height , trenching the heads of door frames out is great
Good to know thanks! 👍
Informative review! Good to know of slop in miter guage & fence . Agree that its strange not to have the option of a power brick, I thought the same for the KSC 60 EB miter saw.
Great Vid Peter good to see honest opinions👏👏
They absolutely need to make it work with mains power. Hikoki and DeWalt have proven that it is possible. The cordless Festool sanders already have a power adaptor, so why not make one for the other tools?
It would make so much sense, especially for these newer additions. I have the KSC60, and it's absolutely wonderful cutting trim all day with a set of batteries. But when you need to do more production work, which even happens on site sometimes, it'd be really nice to be able to plug in and not need to worry about it.
My main gripe is that I would love a cordless dust extractor.
I have the corded ctl mini, but I can't replace it with the cordless, because sometimes it's for the tracksaw and cleanup, other times I spend hours sanding on a job. I can't justify buying 2 full size vacuums and having to pack the van according to the use case that day. I'd gladly pay a premium to have 2 in 1 hybrid tool that can run cordless when I need it.
What I also noticed that a lot of manufacturers only improve upon their cordless tools. If you want the better feature set, you have to go cordless even if you use it in a production/workshop environment. It only adds cost and weight in a lot of cases.
Anyways, thanks for the video, great stuff as usual!
Thanks! Yep, hybrid corded/cordless is the way to go IMHO, not one of the other. 🤷♂️👍
Completely agree, was disappointed to see that both battery and cabled power was not available. Probably wont be an option for me until they provide a cable-powered unit.
Great review Peter. It’s definitely odd that Festool haven’t didn’t include Sawstop, given their ownership. Only one of their saws includes it, the TKS80. I have it and would not recommend - the fence in particular is just plain bad.
That’s why the TKS wasn’t in my shortlist! As I think I say in the vid, Sawstop requires an earth/ground which cordless saws don’t have. 🤷♂️👍
From someone who works in a dealership in Belgium.
Our representative came in with the big news of the tablesaw and the brochure with most the info on it. The tablesaw looked pretty incredible on paper and so shiny and new :D
Now it was either November or December (can't quite remember) that the pre-order became available. The customers who bought the full setup of the table saw AND PAID UP FRONT all received a free sawblade for their new tablesaw. The sawblades came in a couple of weeks after the pre orders. The table saws we all knew we had to wait till I beleive they said somewhere in February (I really could be mistaken) where they would be available. Tho as mentioned there were huge delays.
We got our shipment of the units I believe about a month ago.
So we literally had a couple of customers who paid a couple grant up front and had to wait half a year on their tablesaw. I'm amazed no one actually cancelled their order.....
Worst part is, the stands and the tablesaws came in several weeks from each other. So our customers got notified their order came in, but it was only the table saw stand, which of course you can't do shit with.
This whole ordeal ofcourse was a horrible expereince for customer and dealer alike...
And meanwhile some of the competing stores in our region had their table saw units in, a couple of months before ours...
Long story short, we had to wait half a year for our stock to come in, but now we're one of the very few stores in our region that still has a few in stock 😅
Good to know, thanks. It does seem to have been a clusterfcuk of a new product launch. I felt bad for the dealer cancelling my order to buy from Amazon of all places, but then he had my money for 4 months, so there's a limit on how bad I can feel... 🤷♂️ 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I get it!
For me personally though I really got annoyed and embarrassed to keep telling our customers their order still didn't come in and we have not a single clue when it'll be here...
Peter, Thanks for the review. I think that where Festool has missed the mark is that this tool only covers a very narrow and specific market and NOTHING ELSE. So, if you are a home remodeler, or custom maker where there is no power, then this thing might make sense. Otherwise, as you pointed out, this thing just doesn't cut it at the cost they are offering it at with the feature set it offers. Many other people besides the above narrow market buy Festool products, me being one of them. I like their quality and unique features (Domino). I also own a router and 2 sanders. But they are probably the best or one of the best tools in their part of the market. At a reasonable price. So it is Festool that is going to lose out in the end here by missing a huge swath of the portable saw market. Furthermore, since Festool became known to the left side of the pond, the competition has become much more competitive in terms of features and level of quality at a much lower cost. Have fun with this thing but I will pass.
I initially liked the look of it to replace my old Inca table saw but the battery situation did put me off. In fact it stopped me buying festool drills too as I’m thinking of just investing in the CAS battery system instead. I might change my mind in the future but I’ll
Probably look for a discontinued Mafell erika 60.
I think for what it is, it's an outstanding job site saw...pricey as ever which is par for the course for festool....the slide on it is an awesome option IMO...just a super nice little saw....
Excellent review. I agree that there should be a corded version and fit and finish should be better at this price. Where I work there is always power so I don't need to pay more for a cordless version especially as I don't already have festool charger and batteries.
I was looking everywhere for one of these - not available in South Africa yet - and I think you’ve spared me from importing one 😬
I had high hopes for this and I am shocked and disappointed with the lack of quality- very un-Festool indeed.
Thanks a million Peter - I really trust your reviews and advice. Always appreciated 🙏🏻👍🏻
Thanks! This is a great saw! It does everything I wanted and I’m looking forward to using it on projects. But it would have been remiss of me not to mention the obvious shortcomings, and areas for improvement. If you want a small, quiet, accurate saw with great dust collection, then there’s not much else to consider in this price range. 👍
Thank you for this video. I have this saw for several of months now and i am using it for installing kitchens. I am very happy with it and it works very accurately. It is very easy to take with you to your workspace. Indeed the only problem are the batteries. I use 2 5ah batteries and i have to replace them a lot during the day. I hope the 8ah batteries will come soon, that might solve the problem, except for the high cost of these batteries. Otherwise Festool should really look at a 230v solution.
Thanks for the information, that's really interesting and great to hear from someone using the saw as intended! I really like saw, it does everything I want in a small table saw, and for working in smaller spaces - wether that's a UK workshop or a kitchen install - it's well thought through. But I do think there should be the option to run mains power, battery-only is a mistake.
Being a kitchen fitter myself I use the new tsv60 more than a table saw, I only use a table saw to rip down infill and plinths if they don’t need scribing , just wondering how much you would use this table saw than the track saw?
Very refreshing review... Not like so many other "reviews" that are pure praise/advertising.
It’s an honest first impression from someone who put a chunk of change down to buy the saw. It would be remiss of me not to point out the obvious areas for improvement. 👍👍
Strange that you can find little use for the precise height adjustment. Especially for its intended use I can see that being quite useful for kerfing or cutting a precise rebate.
If you do kerfing or a rebate, it’s going to drain the battery quickly.
For needing it doesn’t need to be that precise, and for rebating there are better tools to use eg routers. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop or a dado stack, if you are in America, the combination of precise depth control and a dado stack would be just awesome.
@@10MinuteWorkshop There are, but with a saw that precise it's nice and quick if you only have to do one or two.
@Geller Woodworking For kerfing I can understand it. But for rebating, that's the same as ripping only less depth. I do that all the time on a saw.
Great review thank you. I’ve been looking forward to this tool for a while my rep says it should be out this fall in the state’s but I completely agree that the biggest head scratcher and my biggest hold up on purchase is the need for battery’s. If I’m buying something festool I plan to have it for 10 years or better so it’s worth the upfront cost but I don’t like the idea of having to constantly put more money in over the years to purchase repurchase and update batteries
Excellent review/overview. If I were a professional cabinet maker/installer I’d have a very hard time NOT buying that saw. It has all the precision, cleanliness and portability expected from Festool. Like you mention, the only hesitation for me would be there isn’t a power cord option, big drawback, especially considering some earlier comments with regard to battery longevity while on site.
Cheers Paul! It’s a great saw - I’m just pointing out the obvious areas that could be improved here as it would be remiss of me not to - but I’m really pleased with it and how it performs. Dust collection is great, it’s small and quiet. The battery ‘issue’ may be resolved in time, so we’ll keep an eye on that! 👍
Very interesting review. I've been waiting to see how you got on with this one. I think it has brilliance but, in a very niche market.
Thanks! I think the market would be much bigger if it had a cord! 🤷♂️
The cord issue is everywhere. I just recently looked into a graft for my Dewalt tools. I was thinking of how useful the leaf blower, set low, could be to draw away harmful vapour and dusts. On does notice while running it how happy it is to suck up one's trousers through its rear placed accumulator. However, oddly, that tool burns through batteries at an insane rate, compared even to chain saws, which is worth it when one in in the yard, but for a stationary use, an adapter and cord would be great. And Dewalt has all kinds of suppliers who leach onto the system, so even if Dewalt is standing firm on it's battery sales, I thought someone in China would have seized the opportunity. Nope.
Great saw! I used it for three month. Great results and handling. But I see the same: cordless is for me not nessesary.
love the review. I could care less about cordless myself so that alone is a buzz-kill in trying to move away from a cabinet style table saw to using my track saw and this unit. Guess I'll have to look at another manufacturer for my portable/foldable saw needs.
Thanks for the video. Yes I'm interested and on the festool and Makita battery platforms..(20/80) I'd be interested in a battery life per foot of 18mm mdf.. totally with you on the mains power supply and the lack of one make this even more of a niche tool than it needs to be..As you say if I was fitting kitchens and bathrooms most weeks I'd definitely be interested.. really looking forward to you putting this machine through its paces..thanks again
Saw video test on batteries, it came out at 100 meters of cutting.
Re: the head-scratching design decisions, Peter I'm not sure if you're familiar with the term "strategy tax", which was thought up to describe how big tech companies like Microsoft would deliberately cripple software products in one area to support sales of their apps in another area. Festool is more than big enough now to be prey to these kinds of corporate power plays.
Oh, I’m well aware of it - the computer business in particular has been rife with it forever. 👍👍
I absolutely agree about why no corded option
sorry I m not , for comfort using ,saw have to be conect to vacum which is corded, so whats is point ? you have to turn vacum first and then saw, best choice is for power and for batery too. in this time its not a big deal technology,
Like you, I'd have thought a mains powered option would be the business. I'm surprised that a digital fence isn't incorporated too - probably _only_ cost another €1000 or so 😁😁 I do like the size and quietness over my dewalt 745 - still scares the living $hit out of me when I switch it on.
Agree, it would be a way better proposition if it was also a battery charger and the whole saw could operate off of mains, too - and the digital fence would also be pretty obvious if you're already that gimmicky.
hi. I've added a slow start module to my 7492. very easily done and makes a huge difference to start up. 😊
@@con-f-usea digital fence would give you the option of going back repeating cuts exactly in conjunction with height of the blade
@@steviebye1 Come on then, details 🙂
Great watch Peter
Some valuable information
Looks a bit flimsy for the cost but as you say depends what you want the saw for & no power lead
Festool messed up there .. 👍🔨
Very interesting Peter. As I am not on the Festool battery platform then without a power cord it is a definitive negative. Seems to be aimed at a fitter already on the Festool battery platform.
Nicely balanced review Peter 👍🏻 If they could have rounded it up to a 300mm rip it would be so much more useful, shame as I’d like one but it wouldn’t suite my work all for the sake of 20mm.
Don’t know how hard it would be to extend the side table extension… 🤔🤷♂️
Another mistake was not using the now famous 20 mm hole system for the saw feet. Loving my saw also, but i wish i could swap out the feet to work into my bench top or my own stands
That’s a great point! 👍👍
Nice review. I agree the cordless only option is a non-starter for me but being in the US, this is probably a mute point given the numerous Festool products that are not available here. I have been burned by Festool batteries before on the CDD12 drill/driver so am not inclined to ever get another Festool cordless again. It would make sense to me if Festool just offered a mains conversion adapter to plug into the battery port to resolve this.
I find the precise blade height important for the work I do but I suspect that most people will just likely use it for through cuts.
Steve
Thanks! To be fair batteries have improved some since the old CDD12, but the lack of a mains adapter option is at best, shortsighted. 👍
Yeah, not being able to charge the batteries in situ seems a massive oversight, even if you can't power it by mains at the same time.
Great review! Personally, I think the loose fitting miter gauge is due to under-the-table agreements to sell aftermarket replacements.
I think Dewalt must be part of the cabal as well; the mitre fence on my 10” table saw is another case of ‘it fits where it touches’ To use Peter’s car analogy it’s like they’re all made by Lada.
Great video! Thank you for posting! 🙌I was immediately drawn to this saw as I use other festool tools and currently own a dewalt jobsite saw that could be upgraded. But feel like I dont want to commit to this festool saw with it being battery only. Love all the other features its offers, like the sliding table, auto adjusting blade and that its super compact, the dust extraction etc. But the battery only is 100% putting me off. And would love to see the sawstop tech in a mains powered option of this saw (that would tick all the boxes for me).
On the subject of the sloppy fit of the fences, I would think this is a deliberate decision so that you get the best accuracy in cutting and it's safer. If the rip fence was a snug fit, you might think you'd locked it and then have it move. Not good!
When you have the rigidity and acuracy of the sliding table would you really want to use even a decently fitting sliding fence which is never going to be as good? I concede that it would give you more ripping length so it's swings and roundabouts I guess.
Great video, thanks.
Very nice and well explained video Peter , I have the TKS80 and find it a real struggle to carry it to the job site , this might just fit the bill , pity Festool didn’t give customers the option to have dual power ,battery or 240v
Thanks! Yes, it’s a shame there isn’t that option - not yet, anyway! 👍
When I first saw your previous video covering this, I was really excited about the technology, especially the electronic height adjust and beveling. Now having seen your initial thoughts I've got to say I'm now on the fence as you make some excellent points. Ok so the electronics are clever, but when would you really really need this? As long as you're cutting above the board, you're right, who cares how far above it you go exactly? And I also own the same inexpensive electronic angle finder. So I've got to say it's dampened my enthusiasm as a 'game changer' product. Great insights Peter.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like the saw, it the wiz-bang tech stuff leaves me cold and there’s room for improvement in other areas that are probably more important to most woodworkers. 🤷♂️👍
I was trying to work out when 0.1mm adjustments were needed. Cupboard face frames? Some half laps? I guess the ability to go back and reset to a given depth could be handy
I'm in a unique situation compared to others as I live in the US but do expect to relocate back to the UK at some point in the future. Buying the cordless range will allow me to keep the equipment when switching countries. Very interested to see your cabinet build as I will likely want to do the same, interested to see if you build a solution to expand the table extension in some way.
Yes, lots of areas where I can see myself 'improving' it for static use. 👍
Great review. I’m fully invested into the 18v Festool range with about 9 batteries but this saw is surely aimed at hobbyists and won’t be getting it. As a site carpenter I stay away from the big sites these days and never really have to take my generator as a result. So my 110v kapex and cs70 are fine .
Well done. Very thoughtful.
It seems to be a common thing with every table saw you buy that you get a worthless miter gauge. I was hoping festool ticked all the boxes for the money you spend. Sawstop are no different I had to upgrade mine. And let’s no forget Amazon I always laugh when they say free delivery we all know nothing is free. As always Peter another great review thanks
Thanks! To be fair, as I say in the vid the mitre gauge locks down securely, so you’re clearly intended to use the sliding table - but it could be a lot better! 👍
Thank you, for convicing me not to want to buy it. I was thinking to buy a small cordless table saw as my shop is tiny. You helped me to keep my money in my pocket and not waste them on it. For me, its price is huge, and I would have paid it only if it would have been perfect and came with at least 4 batteries and a two ports charger.
Many thanks, again, and be well.
Thanks! To be clear, it’s a great saw and does everything I wanted. But it would also be remiss if me not to point out the obvious areas for improvement. 🤷♂️👍
I love the way it adjust the height of the blade when doing angles! takes the guesswork out, Does any saw have a decent 'blade guard that people dont just take off? unlike Festool I have the RTSC 400 Li (which is cordless but with the adaper to plug it into the cord for mains use! A China outsource? does not sound or look like full German engineering to me, be perfect for me and I'm a Festool fan but the price!!!
Hi Peter, great review, yes I thought the same regarding the batteries, I would have considered buying if it was corded, disappointed in the finish quality and I also thought the digital adjustment on the blade a gimmick. Just like the shaper , too much money for something that you can do the same job cheaper using something else and anything unique about these tools would only be used infrequently, I think you can get sucked into buying these tools from festool and shaper but at the end of the day you have to ask your self for the money have much use would you get out of it ,
Thanks for your review 👍
It would have been remiss of me not to point out the obvious areas that could be improved, and things that I’m a little underwhelmed with, but this is a great saw if you have the need for what it does ie small, quiet, lightweight, accurate and with great dust collection - there aren’t many that would tick those boxes! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop yes great point but not for the £ I’m not convinced especially when I have the tsv60 now.
For a small workshop and small projects it’s ideal especially if they put a power cord on it, hopefully they will on mk2
Saying that I may still buy but wait to see if they bring out a corded version to rip down infills and plinths
That’s for replying , great videos by the way 👍
Excellent review Peter! Thank you!
Ha ha. My 15yr-old cheapo Wickes table saw has tighter tolerances than that (but not much else, it must be said). I'm guessing not including mains power means they can skip a whole load of compliance testing and expense. Looks very nice, but I'm waiting for Makita to release one as I'm locked into their battery ecosystem 😢
I don’t think you guys have this in the UK, but I bought the mini Sawstop, the CTS, for $899 and at 68 lbs, it’s not super light but definitely in line with other compact saws. I was speaking with Jason Bent, who was helping at the Recharge Event in Toronto, and I didn’t get the impression from him that CSC 50 was an upgrade from my little Sawstop.
Sawstop saws aren’t available in the UK, and the CSCSYS50 isn’t available in the US - certainly not yet. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop It's unfortunate because the CTS really is a great and affordable solution for many people. We still have people that scoff at the $899 price tag, but after going to the Emergency Room for a minor a laceration last year (not related to a table saw), after insurance, it was about $300.
Blade height makes sense for cutting rebates and grooves, it would have been nice to see digital read-out on the rip fence...
1.8mm kerf and no flat-ground blades (yet) I just don’t think rebates and grooves are really the intended use for this. And yes, it would have been nice to see the digital stuff transfer to the fence where, arguably it would be if more use. 👍
A couple of years ago was looking for a compact table saw, would have gone for a mafell erika if wasn't so expensive ended up with an axminster 10" and put it on wheels...
I have some Mafell (MT55cc, P1cc) and some Festool (KS120, DF 700) tools. While the concept of the CSC SYS 50 is interesting, I think I will choose an Erika push/pull saw for my next purchase.
It was at the top end of my budget, and I didn’t like the propriety extrusions, but it’s a great saw if you can live with them. 👍
Wow wonderful. I really like it ❤... Very compact and professional usage. ❤👍
Thanks! Yes, it’s a great saw! 👍
I keep looking for a small portable saw, and that size is exactly right for what i want it for. However theres no chance of me paying that price. I keep hoping milwaukee, makita or metabo will do one, not even bothered if its mains or battery, just a small portable saw. Cheers.
The cordless aspect of it is less of an issue for me. I use pretty much all cordless Festool tools anyway.
What’s beyond me is the high precision blade height and angle in combination with mediocre fence and miter gauge adjustments.
It’s the main reason why this Festool is off my list and unlikely ever be.
We have been used to our dust extractor being power supply for tools. Could the extractor be also power bank for 18/36 volt. Then direct plug in.
This saw is something I've been wanting but price point is an absolute joke and I was so underwhelmed by the battery life of the battery plunge saw which got sold almost as fast as I bought it.
Thank you for your honest review and willingness to point out it's short falls.
BTW also fell into the same supply issue with the CTM midi when it was first released. Told it would be days and that turned i to months. I assumed i was an isolated case but may be the festool way unfortunately.
Thanks! You’re not alone - lots of folks can’t seem to get beyond the price - but it was dead-centre of all the saws I looked at price-wise, about a grand more than the cheapest, and a grand less than the most expensive. 🤷♂️👍
I enjoy your videos. This seems to be more of a toy than a serious tool. Seems like Festool wanted a table saw to fit in a certain size box but with certain gizmos to justify the high price. Thank you for the review.
It’s a great saw if you have the need for small precise cuts. It’s. It’s not a site saw fir ripping full sheets of OSB, no. 👍
thanks for this video. I think so too there should be a cord version too!!!!!
Pretty interesting tool indeed, Peter! Thanks for the review! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks, you too! 👍
I get the height adjustment. If you want to do trenching or rebates it’s ideally if you can adjust .mm at a time.
I do agree about mains power though. I certainly wouldn’t buy it with that restriction. I wish more tools were hybrid powered.
1.8mm kerf and no flat-ground blades available afaik, those trenching cuts will take a while! 👍
Hikoki do multi volt tools that also run on mains . Think it charges the battery at same time .
As always Peter a useful review that i can trust, i use my festool tools alot and although over priced they really are the best, i have the Laguna Fusion 3 cabinet saw here in the UK, Northern Ireland and it suits my work where i need to cut stock that would simply overwhelm this little saw but as you so rightly say, this little saw shines with finish work and trims, thankyou for another excellent review and i think Festiol should reward you with two new Bluetooth batteries complimentary, stay safe pal, regards Louie
Thanks Louie - and Festool wouldn't sell me the time of day, lol! I have already picked up a pair of bluetooth batteries though... 🤦♂️ 😂
@@10MinuteWorkshop I think Pete if Festool where selling the time of day theirs would be by far the most expensive! Keep up the great reviews because your reviews are always worth taking time out to listen, learn and enjoy, cheers Louie Northern Ireland UK.
Excellent, honest review Peter
Excellent review Peter. At this price though I'd expect to see adjustments to snug the mitre gauge up.
As I say, I think they expect you to lock the gauge to the table and use the slider. 🤷♂️👍
Definitely yes.
I would much prefer having a fence equipped with a DRO than having a digital height/angle adjustment on the blade.
rack and pinion fence should have been the way to go, too many compromises in this thing to appeal to the majority of users. i get its portable, but so are most site saws, cut capacity is laughable, and i can see the electronics giving trouble long term. i appreciate the quiet motor, but thats about it.
It's not for everyone, no. Also, not a 'site' saw...
@@10MinuteWorkshop then who is it for peter? it was made to be portable, but i cant see why, its a precision saw , i can see it appealing to a narrow band of home craftsmen who make smaller objects, box makers maybe. not trying to be argumentative but outside of cutting small filler pieces for kitchen fitters and ripping smaller trim pieces i cant see the point of battery power only, the capacity is too small for making furniture larger than side tables, i just think they have missed the mark when designing this. if it had a better fence system and mitre guage, a slightly larger footprint of a dewalt or milwaulkie (similar weights) they would have sold truckloads, i think this will go the way of their previous attempts at tablesaws, quietly withdrawn after a few years due to low sales figures. i wish you joy with yours however and am happy to be proved wrong. regards.
Thanks Peter
I'm not on the Festool battery platform but I own some corded Festool tools. The fact that this saw is battery only is a deal breaker for me. I really was excited for this saw until I learned it was battery only. The saw would be sitting in my shop all the time and I don't really want or need anything battery powered from Festool so it would be ridiculous for me to have batteries only for this tool.
For it's intended use it's not bad... but I can certainly see your gripes and they would bother me too. It all makes a lump of old iron look like great value probably with better tolerances with a similar amount of calibratrion for shop use (I realise your limitations, insurance etc are an issue!).
It’s a great saw for the intended use, but would have been remiss if me not to point out obvious areas that could be improved. 👍👍
Hi Peter, I have joked with you on the short that you were going to cost me money by buying this saw as I had dominoes because of you. However you are spot on with the cordless element. Not only do you have to have two batteries to run the saw, if you have no power you need cordless extraction too, more batteries. My situation, as many in 🇬🇧, is space not power. I want precision & reliability in a smaller package
At the moment I am keeping my wallet shut, unless you keep telling me it is brilliant of course 😁
Oh, it is brilliant! It's everything I want in a table saw - small, quiet, accurate, modern, fully compliant with health & safety, great dust collection. Don't let the fact that I'm pointing out areas that could be improved put you off, just be aware of what they are. Also, have a search for the comment from my friends at Sautershop - sounds interesting! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop yep seen that, I am waiting…….
Should be corded. Solar power bank with AC inverter today are very powerful and has more capacity in comparison with 2 festool small battery. The price is also going down with 1100W capacity and 2400w load capacity, only cost around $700 this days, they last 3000 cycle and can be use for any other power cord tools.
Great vid and thanks for posting. Thought the digital height adjustment looked gimmicky and not needed. A digital read out on the fence would be far more useful.
Yep, all day long. 👍
Am I the only one who thinks that the powered height and angle is as much about space as anything else?
If these were adjusted manually where would the handwheels be situated? What diameter would they be? Would they be ergonomic to use?
@@trevfindley That's a good point!
I like this saw but like cord on table saw Pete have used the TSV plunge saw yet if so would you be able show on your channel
Thanks! I’ve played with the TSV a bit at Festool HQ - great saw if a little niche. Haven’t had it long term though, so nothing here on UA-cam. 🤷♂️👍
The mitre is sufficient for quite precise trims and grooves, would love extra height but can live it for now. Initially I did buy "just" the saw, like yourself, but then l came to realise the importance and flexibility of the stand as l move it around the room, since l use the Kapex close by, the extension Rails (KA-UG-KS), coming at the obviously the same height as the saw acting as a perfect support for longer panels. The metal surface is better than just stacking some systainers or the mft, custom building pieces/stands/supports are of course another option, but it defies the point of simply getting on with it, as well as the more unified look, albeit at the additional cost. But you wouldn't even consider Festool if that was an issue😜😅
It's the most precise saw I've ever owned, and I'm really happy with it - but it would have been remiss of me not to mention the obvious areas for improvement! The stand is really nice, and clearly well thought out as part of the system, but it was just too big for my workspace, at least for where I want the saw to go. If I expected to be moving the saw around then it would be perfect, but I don't. 👍
excellent as usual Peter. 👌
very good input for festool. im gonna let this one slide and wait for their gen 2. this model seems festool a bit confused on their target users
Great review, Peter. I kind of feel reassured I went for the Makita. I know it’s not really comparable, but at least I knew I was getting the imperfect article. I’d be very disappointed if I bought this at more than 5x the price!
Thanks mMandy; I'm really pleased with it, though there is room for improvement, it does exactly what I want. 👍
My bandsaw mitre fence has lots of slop in it, Other I've looked at also seem to be less than a good fit just wonder if the manufacturers build in slop to stop jams Fromm dust in the fence slot. What to me is the most disappointing aspect of saw (and most or all new ones) is the lack of 'micrometer' adjustment to the fence - my 70 year old table saw has such.
Especially considering the digital dingus for height & angle. You might be right about allowing for dust build-up, but an odd consideration given the big deal that Festool (justifiably) make of their dust extraction. 👍