2023 Honda Civic Type R (FL5) vs VW Golf R (Mk8) | PistonHeads
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2023
- All-wheel drive vs front-wheel drive. EA888 vs K20C1. Germany vs Japan. Which madly expensive hot hatch should you buy?
Remember when the Civic Type R was a cheap hot hatch that had its Euro rivals quaking in their boots, thanks to a healthy dose of VTEC howl? The good news is most of that remains intact with the FL5. All bar the 'cheap' bit. That's because the latest Type R will set you back some £47,000, which is well and truly into all-wheel drive mega hatch territory. That's a market dominated by the ubiquitous Volkswagen Golf R, which boasts trick torque vectoring, launch control and the obligatory crackly exhaust in Mk8 format.
The flagship Civic and Golf used to approach the hot hatch formula from different ends of the spectrum - but now they both output roughly 330hp from turbocharged four-cylinder engines and - with the Golf R 20 Years edition we have here - are edging on £50,000 apiece. Despite myriad differences, similarities abound. So which is best? We sent John to find out...
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Duno who this new presenter is but he's fantastic. Reminded me of Chris Harris. Lots of details, lots of specifics about the driver feel and handling, not just reading a spec sheet, but how those specs translate. Fantastic.
John Howell, and I agree, he's a very good reviewer. His written articles on PH are pretty damn good too :)
Similar voice too.
Funny you say that, he loves this car but CH said don't bother just get the mk7. I enjoyed watching this all the same.
looks like david cameron.
In the opening narration I thought it was Chris Harris.
Excellent reviewer, thought it was Chris Harris at first. He summed up the golf for me when he said it's "effective". If you want to get from A to B quickly, easily and in comfort that's the car for you. If you want excellent driving dynamics, gearshift, steering feel and most importantly fun then the Type R is leagues ahead.
Great review no humour to attempt to keep you entertained just pure petrol head enthusiasm , I was hooked to the end .
I haven't been too impressed with the reviewers on PistonHeads channel but today I found myself in a happy place. Great review, great video and great presenter.
Great presenter - would love to see more reviews with him. Spot on!
The Type R is sensational. Would love to have one!
That Halfords strip light across the front of the golf is unforgivable
🤣
It looks stupid
it looks soo bad at night.
It’s tacky AF…😂😂😂
Spot on! Type R is epic
Price aint it though
The Type R is not going to depreciate anytime soon. Being rare, expensive, and the last of its breed. I can imagine after a few years ownership, a minimum financial loss.
absolute stonks. Some are selling it used marked up too
Same for the mk8r. Even the 7r is selling for more.
Awesome in-depth entertaining yet insightful review.
Stunningly reported. That Honda is a work of art.
What an amazing review! Just bought that same exact FL5 this week and I must say the review is on point, the car is truly special.
For me it's simple. I live in a city, self employed and need to get to work every day to get paid. I have a sloping drive to get off, stop start traffic, dual carriageways, motorways, the odd b roads. All faced in potential ice, downpours ,diesel spills with the odd bit of sun. The golf is better equipped to deal with our uk weather. Not only that i,'m extremely happy to say my fully speced dsg 7.5 is the perfect car for this. It's all very well watching guys lyrical waxing on finer nuances of the handling of the Honda driving around beautiful roads in perfect conditions. But most of us live in the real world. Some people watch these reviews and fall in love with what they say.
Thank you.The type R is great on a dry track, but that’s it
Were you dropped on your head son? FWD cars have no problrm handling snow, rain, or anything else. Just throw a proper set of All-Seasons on there and you're good to go for any UK weather. If anything it'll be even quicker than that Golf R with it's twitchy rear end upsetting the car everytime you plant your foot down in a corner. That's why the Type-R still blows it away on track. As for daily driving, with the auto-rev match system in comfort this thing is extremely easy to drive around town or in traffic...I'm from NYC and it ain't an issue at all.
@@BigBear-- Let's be honest how many of us change our tyre's for the winter. Then that comment that Golf R's are twitchy planting power mid corner is laughable, you clearly don't own one. And my final point is when running big power, 4 wheel drive is the better option. Just look at what BMW has done, the rear wheel hero's now make there top M car's 4 wheel drive. Also Mercedes and Audi. Anyone can drive a performance car if they are gentle on the pedal in the winter. And who mentioned anything about track, i'm talking about a daily driven all year round family hatch.
@@BigBear-- okay now i got it. you are the definiton of keyboard warrior. in every single post u made you are fanboying so strong its disgusting.
I hope u really dont own the car . Any prove do so.
Important point is after 5 years no oil leaks,rattles,thing’s coming off,transmission gone, spending 💰💰💰on the type R.😂😂😂👍🏽
Drove my cousins new type r a couple of weeks ago and it blew me away. The feel through the steering wheel is so refreshing, its such a fast and fun car. (Mk6 golf r owner)
Get in contact with the Honda dealership that your cousin used 😂👍
@@SilverScarletSpider Well out of my price range 😅
You'd be surprised how the MK8 R especially in DSG would feel 100000 light years ahead of your MK6 and the DSG MK8 absolutely thrashes the type R in every metric
@@stevegaspar Fun isn’t a metric 🤷🏻♂️
@@stevegaspar YOu should watch the video again. This one and others.
HRC with their success in moto, F1 and MotoGP may understand how to build an engine better than anyone. Wether it be an inline 4, V4 or stacking two extra cylinders on that V for F1 they know what they are doing. Hopefully this makes sense...I'll add I'm an BMW M2C owner and not a Honda fan boy. I just drove the last iteration that my friend owns and was super impressed, can't imagine how much they've improve the latest version.
Honda is just on another level
No its not. Each has advantages and disadvantages. For example, the Golf R from a stop or in wet weather.
A great review! Super nice narration. Kudos to the presenter. Subscribed!
Great spot on review, need to see more from this guy
God that COLOR on the type R. My dream car, I am a modest man.
I don't know the name in other countries but in America that is called "Boost Blue Pearl" :) (And I love it as well!)
Have a Type R, in red, due in a few weeks……and I CANNOT WAIT 😊
Awesome presentation, subscribed!
Excellent video. Subscribed.
Great video.
Thank you for an excellent video, where was it filmed?
Geoff.
Fab reporting. Knowledgable and well explained what they truly feel like. This fella knows how to drive 👏👌💚
New type R is just one of the best alrounders end of.
Car prices are officially out of hand. Love both of these cars tho.
As an FL5 owner, I completely agree with the assessment in this video. My previous car was a MK7.5 Golf R, as much as I loved it, the Type R is another level. Forget the numbers or how many wheels are driven, it’s the way it feels, the tactility and mechanical precision of everything. You need to drive one to understand. So compared with the price of the Golf, RS3, M Cars, AMGs, Porsches, Teslas etc, the Type R is a bargain.
super excited for mine! Selling my GR Yaris for one. I sort of miss the crazy edgy styling of the old one, but i think this mature look will grow on me. Both the golf and civic are phenomenal ICE enthusiast cars. What a time to be alive
I'm very tempted to do the same... The GR Yaris is a hard act to follow.
yaris is a weapon, way better than new gr carolla
what i would do for that gr yaris to be sold in US ;(
The gr yaris will hold value over the years. You may regret it.
@@chenheadsmith5998 or certainly will.lose value if I daily it or if I pay the 1.5k insurance every year
Just purchased one. Thanks team👍🏻
Great presenter. I love that both of these cars exist.
My Type R arrives in March, can’t wait.
Mine in 2nd half of april , can't wait either 😅 where are you from?
@@nicolasdujardin5691 based in the U.K. what about you?
@@jamsxr belgium..
What are they listing for in the UK?
@@nicolasdujardin5691 £47k, although from April they’re going up to £49k.
@@jamsxr so about the same as here , i paid 54.750€
Enjoy your's mate!
Great review…thanks
In Canada we're lucky as we get the manual transmission Golf R.
I test drove a mark 7.5 DSG and Manuel and there's no comparison, the manual is so much more fun, so much more engaging and involving for the driver.
I kinda feel bad for the real drivers across the pond.
The type-r may handle better on dry roads but the Golf R will destroy the Civic type-r on wet roads or snowy roads, gravel... any slippery conditions.
If I had my choice of any hot hatch out there now it would definitely be the Toyota gr Yaris.
I currently have deposits down for both Emmanuel Volkswagen Golf R and the new gr Corolla I'll buy whichever one becomes available first.
@Gary
So you're saying that the GR Yaris and the GR Corolla are not hot hatches because they are awd. That's completely false of course they're hot hatches.
I could give a shit what Chris Harris says.
Man what have you been smoking lately.
I would easily take the GR Yaris over the Civic type-r Golf R anything, it's an amazing performance machine.
It’s always about the tires in snow and inclement weather regardless of what car sits on top of them.
I have a long wait to December for my Type R....
Poor you. I’ve to wait 10 years before I can afford one 😢
On a track it might be brilliant but in real life conditions and roads it’s Golf R you want all day!
Maintenance reliability and service cost to keep it in the road.
just take the clubsport for the track no need for an honda lol
@@lilmoesieable and vice versa.
One day the british will learn the diff between awd and 4wd.
very nice review
Great reviewer!
great review
My personal problem and I'm not entirely sure why this is but the idea of spending almost 50k on a Honda Civic just escapes me.
Is it my age, the image of the type r brand, I just can't imagine thinking 'right I have a budget of around 50k I'll go take a look at the Civic type r' I just can't see it ever happening and I know people say their great cars
That would change if you ever got a chance to drive the FL5.
Or actually look at one and see how the golf R (or anything else)looks very very dull. I have a championship white fl5 and it’s beautiful.
I know the Type R is very expensive, but I feel that it is such a complete package, amazing driving dynamics, great practicality, you can even use comfort mode if you want! I love the fact we now have a new M3 Touring, but I would take this Type R over that M3 Touring and use the change for something else 🌚❤️
47k for a FWD car though..
@@astradala1845 Well, yes but believe you me, a Honda are masters of FWD, I wouldn't pay £47k for a FWD, but I would for a Honda with FWD 😂 I have seen some people drifting the Type R :o (Obviously not big sustained drifts like on an M3 right 😂 but this is the only FWD car I have seen drifting :o)
Problem is with the extra pack its more 52k and great as it is and probably best in class as the fk8 was, you can get a 1 year old M4 comp for 56k and that is a completely different level of car imo.
@@Bmontepeque11 Very true to be fair. Tyre R even the FK8 are monsters both on and off the track definitely the meanest FWD car you can buy
Made from unobtainium unfortunately.
The type r is a poor man's gt3 essentially. Got the deposit on a sonic grey one, can't wait to pick it up soon!
Excellent review my friend.
One question for you if’s posible.
If you need to consider buy one of this car a new type R or golf R mk7.5-8 ? What is best long term car? Consider carbon accumulation, electrical issues, quality materials.
Thanks in advance
😍 brilliant, loved it
Great video. Excellent presenter!
Golf R all day.
Reserved and waiting for the type R. No way to test drive one in the States but these videos praising the type R and comparing to the GT3 variant is definitely reassuring. Can’t wait to get delivery to experience one myself. Never owned fwd cars but this is definitely the one to do so
where u at i got mine its insane!!!!!! And i also own a 2022 porsche 911 C4s....
type R thrills are different and honestly more fun at the moment
even though porsche is porsche the type R
is mind Blowing!! MUST GET!!!
Got your Type R yet?
What’s the verdict?
@@saucey99 you’re one lucky man! Please do a comparison video for us! 😊
I'm absolutely shocked that you don't get a manual Golf r in the UK. I assumed with so many slobbish truck & suv drivers in North America we would be the last market to get the manual.
Objective, neutral, suave, and excellently informative.
This was a phenomenal review. Very well done. Only confirmed what I already suspected but this new Type R is incredible. Was between a few other cars but this thing is truly special and addresses all the issues I had with the FK8. Looking forward to getting one but right now there are so few in the states so prices are predictably ludicrous.
Don't know why manual is not offered in Europe, but it is available in the US. Worth mentioning, because the way he mentioned I thought it was DSG only globally...
Great review, the new presenter is incredible.
The Type R is just absolutely perfect.. clever Honda engineers have turned what was the FK8 which was a well machined car in every way as in mechanically perfect to mechanically perfect but a bit more on edge.. those chaps and ladies are very clever.. who wants an E SUV.. no thanks.. the dual axis front diff is such phenomenal..
That's a very strong statement about the gear box.
This is why Chris Harris name the fl5 car of the year2022. The Power of dream honda💪
Amazing review. I think the mark of how well made this video is, is that you can feel the joy. The only thing he didn’t mention is that in ten years the Honda will be purring like new and the Golf will be at the wreckers.
I like the Honda as well, but we both know the Golfs pretty reliable it's the same engine as the mk7, and they are good for at least 150k miles.
BS - have owned both Hondas and VWs in the past - both last just fine with good maintenance. I'll happily take the Golf R over any Honda.
@@smcgmail8238 replying to washout or redline?
Maybe but with a rotten chassis that doesn’t matter
@@redline589 I’ve never heard of anyone calling vw “reliable” except people that either just recently got one and wants to feel good about owning it, or they’ve never owned one. Everyone I’ve met with a golf says they’re a pain in the ass once the warranty expires.
Excellent review.
As an FK8 owner I can vouch for the ability of the Type R to both thrill, chill and fulfill- but never bore.
No manual would be a deal breaker for me on the Golf R, no matter how good or fast the DSG is. An electric shaver where the shifter should be? Really?
Yes, the FL5 improves on the FK8 in several areas. But I am already driving my dream car. And it looks the part.
Always had a soft spot for a VW hatch- my folks had the original Rabbit in the mid '70's, and I also test drove the R32 when it came out. But the Honda just feels lighter on its feet.
The red seatbelt on type r beats vw by itself not to mention that lovley rear wing , manual gearbox is so cool, and that clasic bashboard...
Love my 21 fk8 type r
Thought this was Chris Harris at first and thats a good thing, I just subed
Love the colour of the Honda.
The FL5 Type R hands down the best TypeR
I really hope to try a type R one day to see how enjoyable is. The other hot hatches l've tried are comfortable and quick in the 0-100... definitely not much enjoyable to drive
They should put the rs3 2.5 engine in the golf r and call it R+ with 420bhp would be the ultimate hatchback
And still shite.
You buerk
With a manual gearbox. Dreamy
Wasn’t that what they wanted too do with the MK8 but Audi said no.
@@danielainger8666 So Audi can borrow VW engine but won't let it go other way 🤣
This guy reminds me of a cross between a British Owen Wilson and Chris Harris. Bravo!
"a little point and squirt" bang on analogy!!
Very good reviewer presenter John Howell
Excellent presenter! More content with him!
I’m a Honda guy, but the thing is any idiot can drive a golf R fast and safely, so in my book that is clever that is evolution of car.
Well narrated review. As a proud owner of a GR Corolla and an FL5 Type R, I can honestly say the Type R is on another level of quality, craftsmanship, and overall excellence. The car is an amazing machine, and I would NOT feel out of place driving in a Supercar group ride. And for sure I would not be left behind.
Emm.. I don’t think that’s how it works man
Does anybody know the roads in this ?
Great video BUT DCC ADAPTIVE DAMPERS IS NOT STANDARD ON R 20 YEARS. Ease to assume it would be as it's essential for 'ring mode to work on the 'ring. But it's not.
Thank you ! Great test. Unfortunately both cars are costing here ( Turkey ) around 100k ( really) Pounds because of special luxury taxes. So its nice to watch. If here the Type R would cost 50k pounds you could sell a lot of them.
Great presenter, I didn’t know the guy from How I met your mother, knew so much about cars!
Enjoyed your video. Thank you for posting.
The Mark VIII is available in North America as a manual.
Don’t know why Volkswagen decided to reserve this wonderful option for only two countries. Rumor mill reports that it’s due to local enthusiast community outreach to the intl. HQ.
It’s a real shame for the rest of the planet. Hope they reverse this decision in the next iteration. If enough potential buyers clamor for it, it might happen.
This guy's style and delivery reminds me of Vicki Butler-Henderson from Fifth Gear... 👌🏻
Tony from Hollyoaks doing a good job reviewing cars.
When you wont a racer car always is Manual ❤
Love for Honda !🔥
I don't like water pump issues. Both my cousins Golfs have had them fail.
Awesome video. In my book Golf R > Type R
New Type-R GT back in 2021 cost 37'500 euros. Today I bought 2021 with 20K km on odometer for 42'500 with a set of spare ''18 wheels and it's great deal! I've seen Type-Rs gone for ever 50K with much higher mileage
wasnt sure of the new presenter at first, but he grew on me!
Just out of curiosity, which one is quicker around a track? Not like I’m racing either one, but would be curious to know which car runs a track quicker.
Type r is a fair bit faster than the standard golf r on the track tests I've seen.
I know Honda is very spiteful with their negative reviews, but come on. I love both cars, but he's visibly getting jostled around FAR more in the CTR than the Golf R. I've heard nothing but negative things about the road noise isolation in the new Civic/Integra. I can only imagine the CTR with its more aggressive and stickier compound are worse in this area as well.
Golf R is better for driving around normally on a day to day. CTR is the one you want on a weekend or track day.
The Golf has become fun. The Type R was always fun!
what road is that?
Didn't know Jason Segel does car reviews!
what happened to the tall sinewy guy who used to present back in the day?
Just sold my mk7.5 Golf R for the new type R
I think the manual is back for 2024? or at least for the US market. I do like the Golf R probably the best for the money but not sure it will be as reliable as the Honda over the long term.
I suppose driving them around Wales just for fun when it's dry, yes, the Honda still has it. But every day driving is not just about bearable suspension or an infotainment system a motoring journalist can get used to in half a day but things like having an automatic gearbox for the other 90% of driving (throw in more useable driver assistant features and cooled seats and a sunroof and a heated steering wheel and a bunch of other things the Type R doesn't have). Couple that with the huge performance advantage the Golf has on anything other than dry, grippy tarmac and I'd still pick the VW if it was my money. With the current crop, that gap has widened for me, not closed.
I’m a Honda fanboy, but I agree with you 100%, like how often are we on these type of roads rallying our car.
That's not what the Type R (or a hothatch) is for though. The Type Rs have excelled in driving dynamics and passable interiors (although this one is better than the golf in that regard too).
The Golf is just another German boat, of which there are many to choose from, as it has no distinct identity.
The only gap is in 0-60 times, which is for children at this point. Pinning an accelerator pedal means very little.
That's not what a hatchback is for? What the hell is it for then? Journalist reviews or occasional track session? What world do you live in where one can drop $45,000 on such a vehicle? The rest of us have to save up our pennies to have a privilege to even afford a vehicle of this caliber. The GolfR is far an away a better daily driver and it's not even close. For most of us superior 99% of the time usability is far more important than the little bit of extra added performance/fun for that 1% of occasions.
German boats with no distinct identity? I'll take my BMW/VAG/MERC any day of the week, as so would most sane people.
@@loxlover1714 I said 'hothatch', perhaps you misconstrued on purpose, or do you have no comprehension skills?
This car's focus isn't comfort, practicality and luxury (which it does better than the Golf R anyway). It's an enthusiast car with a focus on driving pleasure unlike the German rivals.
@@alsayedfakhri4597 I didn't misconstrue anything on purpose. My comprehension skills are on par with a college educated person. Never claimed to be the smartest person in the room.
Your argument is misguided. There is no definition of a hothatch that states that the only purpose of a hothatch is to go as fast as possible around a circuit, or be the most engaging, especially in sacrifice of every other aspects of what makes hatchbacks great. You're literally making this up. You can easily be the second/third/fourth most performant/engaging and STILL be an excellent hothatch. The idiocy of your statement is further exemplified by implying that German rivals elicit no driving pleasure. That's objectively false, you can look at the sales numbers to prove that. It might not be fun to YOU. You might be one of those Ricky Bobby people that lives by "if you ain't first, you're last". Which is fine. That's why we have choices. The world many of us live in you absolutely CAN demand all of practicality, comfort, luxury, and performance from ANY vehicle. I've own everything from modified Integras to modified M3s throughout my 25 years of driving. And I'm a huge fan of the Golf R in my 40s because it strikes such a wonderful balance of what I want to live with at this point in my life. My answer would have certainly been different 20 years ago.
Diff on a FWD can be a lot of fun
CTR for dry-day fun drives. R for everything else.
The Golf R should’ve put the TFSI 5 cylinder in it. Hell I would’ve bought it had they done that 🤷♂️
Absolutely bang on with this review. Sums it up perfectly.
The new type R is a phenomenal all rounder. Might not be the quickest on damp bumpy twisty bits (that’ll be the GR Yaris) but everywhere else it reigns supreme.
Both these cars would gap the GR bro
@@astradala1845 only on smooth dry roads… but the type R is more enjoyable to drive.
For anyone watching this comparison, just go and actually physically look at the FL5 in comparison to the golf R- one looks stunning with bulging arches whilst the other is just a golf with quad pipes.
I have one in championship
white and it’s beautiful!
I’ve had an 8v RS3 and this car is so much nicer despite the lack of a 2.5 5 cyl motor.
Excellent review - by the way, the hot hatch in its original form is dead... these are both two high performance cars that move and live in a another plane of the auto-universe. I own a manual Golf R Mk 8 (Welsh but live in Virginia), I have owned it for a year with zero issues and miles and miles of smiles. I think the Honda Type-R is also a superb car, I just prefer mine.
4WD is the way to go with US Winters.
@@fredbrackelysurely only in a limited number of states??
I,m wondering if I could daily the Type R ? I drive a lot the DSG in the Golf would be the logical choice but damm the Honda ticks all the boxes
I dailyd the fk8. FL5 more daily-able.
Golf is better as a daily because it’s less tacky
@@geronimooo260 and I'm sure a touch less fun
Take the wing off the Civic you would be stealthy@@geronimooo260