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How Fluidmaster 400 Series Fill Valves Work
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- Learn the secret of how Fluidmaster 400 series fill valves work. The fill valve looks simple, but how it works is not so simple. Take a look inside to see what happens.
@HacksbyDad
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Products shown in this video are available at Amazon...
Fluidmaster Fill Valve Seal 242... amzn.to/3KYMU1B
Fluidmaster 400AH Toilet Fill Valve... amzn.to/3A3KPfU
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This video is for entertainment purposes only. Rely on the information in this video at your own risk.
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Bravo I've seen diagrams but a cut-out is much more visceral. Thank you for taking the time to do this video, shows how much engineering and ingenuity is put into making a fill valve.
You’re welcome and thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.
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Thank you so much, this is exactly what I was looking for!
I couldn't understand how the pin could force the rubber seal to close if they weren't firmly attached to each other. Now I see that it's actually the water pressure itself that holds the seal closed, which is a genius design.
This gave me the confidence I needed to get a replacement seal and get the toilet working again.
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I've replaced more of these valves than I can recall, and never fully realized how they work. lol Thank you sir for the detailed explanation!
Any idea how the long the average seal lasts? Just curious, they seem to fail quite often.
@@ToeCutter0 It most likely depends on chlorine/chloramine levels in your local water, along with calcium/magnesium levels. We have high calcium/magnesium, average chloramine @ 2ppm, and in our area they typically last for several yrs.
You’re welcome! I really appreciate the feedback. 😎
Finally a clear explanation of how the actual mechanism works. Thank you so much!
You’re welcome and thank you for the kind words!
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THANK YOU for making this video. As a Lady Homeowner I love how you took the time to teach and share how these work and what they look like inside!!!! Words cannot express how thankful I am!!!!
You're very welcome! Your feedback is much appreciated!
Wow - now that video took some work to create - with the cutaway view and all - amazing!
Thanks! LOL
That was fun to work on. I always thought it was a simple lever mechanism… but boy, was I wrong!
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I'm surprised that level of complexity and precision is needed for something like this. Thanks a million for that brilliant breakdown and description!
6/10/23, 4:44 p.m.
Thanks! Much appreciated!
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Phenomenal video. I had always thought that the stainless rod actuated the seal. Thank you so much for taking the time to make the cutaway. A picture is worth a thousand words!
You’re welcome! Glad you enjoyed the video. 😎
Best video ever for toilet fill valve assembly anatomy and mechanism.
Thanks! 👍😎
First video I've come across that explains how the mysterious valve seal works. Well done. Thanks!
You’re welcome and thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!
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I don't even have toilet troubles, but this video was so informative that I had to watch.
Thank you for taking the time to help us all.
Thanks for the kind words! Much appreciated. 😎
Great video, I really appreciate the cut-out view & explanation! Makes a huge difference when understanding why & how parts can fail. 🍻
Thanks! 👍😎
whoever invented this is a genius, thank you so much for showing ☺
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Excellent video! The cut-out helps tremendously.
Seeing the interior of the valve can give insights to potential problems with the valve.
Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated!
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Excellent video, this is how all videos explaining things should be. I think we all understand very intricately how this works now!
Thanks! Much appreciated! 😎
this is wonderful! That little valve uses the water pressure on a big area (around the circumference on top) to hold back water under a small area (the centre part). The same process that big industrial valves work on. I just replaced mine; crud in the bottom where the supply attaches, cut flow. I did the 'flush process' but it wouldn't clear. Great!!
Dad, you are the best! Forwarding your whole series to my son, so he’s ready for the inevitable. Today replaced fill valve with one hand (not really) and you video in the other hand (really). Thanks. $17 for fill valve assembly; $150 in labor savings. Peace of mind, priceless.
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Wow, this is what I was exactly looking for! Thanks for sharing!
You're welcome! Us nerds need to stick together! No offense. LOL
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Video is great. All the other videos focus on flushing the stem and nary a mention that the rubber could be a big source of a slow refill. The breakdown of the mechanism helped a great deal in my suspicion of other causes for a slow refill. Thanks!
You're welcome. Thanks for the feedback.
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The video I been searching for and bam!!!! This is great!!!! Exactly what I wanted to know!!! Thank you sir!!!
Great job explaining!
Exactly the information I was looking for, great job explaining!
Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.
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Well done video. I now understand why the tsnj will not fill when the float drops. The valve stops when the tank is full, but would not fill.
Thanks! I appreciate the feedback.
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Thank you. I’m sure even the designers would be pleased with that explanation.
Thanks! 😎
That is exactly what wanted to know.Thank uou one like coming your way.
Great explanation thanks
This is exactly what I was looking for. Thx 4 sharing. Thumbs up from me!!!
You’re welcome and thanks! 😎
Thank you for all the work it took and providing this. After replacing the rubber valve the fill valve is still often fails to shut off the fill water. This has given me ideas to check: make sure the tiny holes on the center valve are clear. Examine the metal stem to see if it is bent and unable to allow water to fill above the valve to pressurize it.
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great video! helped a ton. once i understood how it worked i simpely took it apart and cleaned the rubber disc. i think there was some particulate that was getting betweeen the disc and seating surface. the cut view was fantastic.
Thanks! Glad you found the video helpful. 👍😎
This is a very good explanation of how this fluid master float valve works.I have discarded 4 of these noisy and failed leaking pieces of unreliable junk in my house.Those two small holes take too long to do their job and after a while the toilet never shuts of properly.
Thank you for taking the time to make such a great video. We have struggled with toilet valves for years and have a flow master that nearly got the chop like all the others. Until I cleaned it. Now I understand perfectly what it was that did the trick (seal valve holes) as There didn’t seem to be a lot of dirt there! Our last fix was by an emergency plumber for $260. Your efforts are my salvation! Thank you! 🙏
You’re welcome and thank you for the feedback! 😎
Great video. My American Standard toilet stopped refilling after a flush. I bought a new diaphragm but that did not help. After watching your video I reinspected the fill valve. The stainless steel pin was dirty with disintegrated rubber parts from the old diaphragm. Your cutout was awesome and told me exactly what we going on. Well done!
Thanks! Glad to hear that the video was helpful. 😎
One additional point: if you have removed the whole assembly, and/or moved the top section against the fixed tube attached to the cistern, perhaps in order to adjust the fill height or to inspect the whole thing away from the toilet, there is another source of a slow leak:
The top section with all the float and valve business is sealed against the water mains pressure small inner fixed tube by 2 small O-rings. These rings (10mm outer diameter x 1.5 mm) harden over time and stop sealing properly.
So if you disturbed the seal between the upper and lower sections of an aged Fluidmaster assembly in any way, the symptom of a creeping overfill is the same as a faulty valve seal! So if cleaning and replacing the valve seal doesn't fix the overfilling, consider replacing the 2 small O-rings (a little fiddly as they are in a recess).
There's also a bigger O-ring around the outer bottom tube, which, I think, is not critical for leaks, more to do with potential air ingress during filling (a problem I encountered and reported in another comment).
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Very professional thank you
Thanks much! Appreciate the feedback!
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Awesome. I was wondering how it worked. I had it apart but couldn’t figure it out.
Thanks.
You’re welcome! Glad you found it helpful.
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Thanks for this
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Brilliant!
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Thank you
You’re welcome.
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Thank you!
You’re welcome. 😎
Is it just me or is this entire fill system way over-engineered just to fill a damn toilet tank? No one will ever convince me that the seal is NOT designed to fail.
Great video! I had no idea how a seal with a stainless steel pin punched through it actually stopped the water flow.
Thanks for the feedback! Appreciate it.
I’m sure there’s a good reason for the complex design, but that’s waaaay over my head! LOL
Yes, wayyyy over engineered.
I agree in principle with the "over-engineering" argument, but would like you to consider:
a) the only sophisticated parts are 1) the stainless control-stem and 2) the shape of the rubber seal. Given that the stainless steel part in this configuration would not wear within your lifetime, swapping a pennies' worth of rubber seal seems small change compared to any alternative.
b) the FluidMaster solves a number of other problems of earlier float control valves, e.g. noise! It is extremely quiet compared to anything else I've come across. It employs a number of noise control features that have not appeared in its own literature nor in social media, like the flow-limiting silicone-helix (worm) in the base of the intake, and the clever outflow back down to the bottom of the cistern, plus some clever design to avoid air-ingress during valve opening! All other cistern fill systems I know, blow unrestricted water & air mixture over the surface, causing a mighty racket (dependent on the prevailing water pressure).
Disclaimer: I'm in no way associated with FluidMaster or its products. I'm just trying to balance arguments I find online against my experience. Cheers, Matthias
Bravo great video well explained and excellent visual aids. I am looking my 2nd toilet with this valve with the same problem. The tank refill has crawled to a slow gpm flow from the valve. I did a quick cleaning but there were no debris and water pressure is satisfactory on the inlet. So i suspect the rubber seal is the problem as it looks a little worn. ANYONE ELSE have this same issue with this valve? IF SO i was thinking of just replacing the upper pop off portion to save time.
TOO COOL!
OK now I don't feel bad for not being able to figure it out myself. Thanks for posting. This will greatly help my troubleshooting.
You’re welcome. I’m glad the video was helpful.
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Very interesting I never knew
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Nice
Thanks!
Very much appreciate your cutout of the valve and its housing and how it works. Is it common to have the rubber seal look all normal visually but to be impaired in how well it seals (or doesn't seal)?
Thanks! Yes, it is common for the seal to look okay but not function properly. 😎
Hi thank you for uploading informative video . I also replaced my old fill valve with 400 series and I found out it takes much longer to fill the tank. Probably my toilet tank is too big because it is from 80s or the fill valve dont have enough water supply. I found out the fill valve has 2 water outlets . one is refill port for toilet bowl via overflow valve and the other is bottom part of fill valve. So I wanna have quick water fill what can I adjust ? Thank you ☺️
Hi there. I see that you watched and commented on some of my other fill valve videos, so you know those hacks. I'm guessing that your old tank is a 3.5-gallon or larger tank if it is from the 80's. Have you tried adjusting the float for a lower tank level to where you still have an adequate flush? Or old school style like my parents did... placing empty glass bottles in the tank?
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Love this video!! It helps explain my problem. For the past month, I have been hearing gurgling sounds. I finally looked into it. From what I can ascertain, the gurgling is intermittent, like every 5 seconds, and water is coming out the refill tube into the overflow tube. What I also noticed was that the water level was right at the top of the overflow tube. So I lowered the water level to a half inch below the top. I looked at it again later to see that the water level was again at the top and some of it would spill down the overflow tube. Obviously water was being wasted. The tank was filling up un it's own very slowly, even though the valve should have been closed. So clearly some water was leaking from the fill valve? But I'm also wondering what was causing the intermittent gurgling of water though the refill tube into the overflow tube? It's a Fluidmaster 400.
It's possible that the valve seal is leaking. If you don't want to replace the entire fill valve assembly, you can try cleaning or replacing just the valve seal... ua-cam.com/video/sEdfFZQYQEI/v-deo.html
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@@HacksbyDad What do you know! I think I fixed it! At first, I thought I would have to change the fill valve and planned a trip to Home Depot tomorrow. Then after watching your video and a couple of your other ones, I thought I just needed to change the valve seal, still needing to go to HD. Then I think I heard you mention that maybe just cleaning it might be helpful, or someone else did, and I did just that with how I learned to get to the seal. And I think it worked!!! The water level has not changed and no more gurgling. No more money going down the drain. Thanks so much for your detailed video. Many others just tell you how to change the valve; you tore it apart to show us. That's the difference between you and the others. Keep it up!
@@davidl4417 Glad to hear that you fixed the problem! 👍
@@HacksbyDad I have this same issue but it's not gurgling. It's pretty much a full on continuous fill, just much lower volume than totally filling after a flush. I already tried cleaning & flushing the cap diaphragm, to no avail (didn't look bad, & the rubber gasket seal didn't look too bad either), but this video opened up my eyes to what's going on inside the gasket (Thank you so much man)! It's not just a straight seal-only deal. It has compartments for allowed water volume to travel through, which works, but leaves room for long term wear & tear to showcase in the future...
Anyways, for now, I have reduced the inlet water supply valve to reduce some of the noise & volume, & I will try to simply get a gasket, because I don't think I need a whole valve.
If worse comes to worst, then I'll eat the cost for the entire valve because wifey won't rest ready until it's fixed, ASAP!
@@DJ.PaulyP LOL! I know what you mean! Happy wife, happy life.
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Great video, i need to look at mine as the old seal leaked causing overflow. Replaced the seal but now it takes a lot longer to fill. Interestingly the old seal was red the new one was black, I'm wondering if it is simply because the new seal is stiffer and slowing the flow.
Thanks… I appreciate the feedback!
Are you talking about plastic valve cap being red or the actual rubber seal? I haven’t seen a red rubber seal before?
@@HacksbyDad No the actual rubber seal, it is a dark red colour, I thought maybe a low or high pressure version, but the replacement washer pack is OEM and states multipressure and the seal is black. This is what it fitted, I'll take it off again at some point to see if there is any reason why the water rate is slower.
@@royster3345 Thanks for sharing. Now I know that there is a red-colored Fluidmaster fill valve seal. Hope you fix the problem.
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Informative. Those two tiny holes in the stainless stem become CLOGGED
would cause trouble. Extremely small size. hardly noticeable.
Yeah. Interesting engineering. The valve seal and control stem are self-cleaning.
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Had a run of bad luck with those fluidmaster rubber diaphrams. Had a PRO45. Worked flawlessly for almost a decade. Started sticking open. Replaced the rubber diaphram. Now it squeals, and slowly leaks. Figured the plastic valve seat degraded. Replaced the whole valve with 400a. Worked for a few days, randomly sticks open 1 out of 4 flushes. Gave up, switched to a Korky. That metal pin is so small in diameter and the rubber diaphragm is essentially the both the valve body and valve seat for that pin and it's molded into the rubber. Not much tolerance for error in the rubber molding process. Don't know if fluidmaster's tooling is worn out causing the more recent rubber diaphragms to be of inferior quality and that combined with my higher water pressure makes for repeated failures. Toilet valves aren't supposed to be rocket science, but this one has me stumped.
How is the Korky fill valve working for you? I haven’t tested one out yet. 😎
wow
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I have this model in my toilet. When the fill valve closes on mine it happens somewhat abruptly and this causes a bang in my wall. I installed a shark arrestor but still bangs quitle loudly. I may need to replace the whole fill valve. Or, do you think It could be a bad valve seal?
I experienced water hammer when my pressure regulator failed. It stopped after I rebuilt the pressure regulator. Here's a video on that repair... ua-cam.com/video/eI334pzRWDQ/v-deo.html
I changed the valve seal but water continues to flow out. the water rises above the floater and spills into the bowl. If that blue part is damaged, could that be causing the flow?
I suggest you verify that the float and valve arm move freely. If they do, you can replace the valve cap (including the valve seal) or the entire fill valve assembly. Hope this helps.
My seals seem to leak every few months. It really frustrating relentlesly buying a new one.
You are a God for this. Where did you learn all this? You worked for a toilet company, huh?
LOL!
I’m an old fart with lots of time on my hands to do do stupid research. 😎
so , when it closes, it needs HOW much pressure ??....seems the old floating ball was better,,, no pressure headaches
First thank you for detail and indepth explanation. However I am still confused why such sophisticated mechanism is needed. A simple spring loaded shut off valve would have been good enough with the ability to bypass some water through the toilet refill tube
I'm curious too. I'm sure they have a good reason. I read that the water pressure behind the valve seal creates a very strong seal. Maybe someone from Fluidmaster will see this and explain.
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Yes, whatever was wrong with a simple lever pressing directly on to the rubber diaphragm to stop the water flow? Why re egineer a simple device with something which relies on precise fluid dynamics and precision seals to get the job done? I have a filler valve type which relies totaly on water pressure above the diaphragm and just a tiny bit of wear at all on the rubber stops it working! The rubber has to be brand new or no deal! Somebody always has to come along and re invent the wheel...
I don't understand why the initial water has to be release out the two holes onto the top of the fill valve?
That’s so the water pressure above the valve seal can be released which allows the pressure below the seal to lift the seal. Lifting the seal allows water to pass by under the seal to refill the tank. Hope this helps. Thanks for watching the video.
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@@HacksbyDad Thanks so much for the clarification. Great video.
@@roberttompkins6489 Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated!
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what happened to me was that on low water pressure the valve does not stop the water flow and the tank overflows. anybody else with this issue?
Sorry... I haven't experienced this problem with the fill valve and low pressure. For the tank overflowing, please check to see that the overflow tube is at least an inch below the hole for the handle. The setup is explained is this video... ua-cam.com/video/HFLEoBAJj2E/v-deo.html
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Then when the rubber ages the narrow sections of the rubber do not seal on the stem and water continues to escape from the top of the stem regardless of the pressure down on the rubber seat!! Over engineered that relies on a very small rubber to tiny stem seal!It is clever, but too clever to be long term reliable as the flutes a will eventually cut a groove in the small rubber sealing points!
They only made these and other similar contraptions because the older proper valves that could last 40 years, were too big to fit in the 'modern' half size cisterns.
the illustration is great, but the speech is super confusing
Nice video, but I think it's lousy design. Just makes for more troubleshooting. Make simple things more complicated and more headaches result.