NJAC Debate with Arnab Goswami | Legislature Vs Judiciary | Arun Jaitley Vs Justice R M Lodha - Full
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- Watch: "Promise Vs Delivery | Budget Debate With Arnab Goswami"
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On the backdrop of Supreme Courts decision on National Judicial Appointments Commission (NJAC), for the first time on Indian television, TIMES NOW brings you the biggest face between a union minister and a former Chief Justice of India. In the biggest debate of 2015, Union Minister Arun Jaitley is set to take on Former Chief Justice RM Lodha to put to rest the matter of greater authority between the legislature and judiciary. The two are joined by Soli Sorabjee, Former Attorney-General of India and Rajeev Dhavan, Sr. Advocate, Supreme Court in The National Debate with Arnab Goswami.
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Even after Rajeev Dhawan's constant personal attacks and bias on Arun Jaitley . Jaitley didn't respond with such indecency , what a remarkable man he was , really missing him !!❤️
Rajeev Dhavan is trying his best to slander to compensate the crudity of arguments
One of the best debates, I have ever , watched in TimesNow in the recent past.
Arun Jaitley was one of the most influential and smartest politicians in Indian history. Miss his powerful articulate speeches filled with intellectual arguments and logic. May he rest in peace. Om Shanti!
Really he brought electoral bonds too.
Sardar Arun Jetley... Unification of India through GST...( sardar vallabhai patel... Unification of princely states...
Sardar Narendra Modi... unification through Ram. Mandir )
I watched it 6 years back and iam watching it again and if there is anything that compelled me to do so again is the exceptional articulation of thoughts on the subject by Mr Jaitley (i miss you Sir) and an unconventional display of rowdy sophestication by Mr Dhawan while expressing his thoughts.
When Arnab used to be a journalist. And mind you, a good one.
This was the time When Arnab's voice didn't use to hurt our ears ❤️
"Institution in a democracy have to be protected from an elected but you will end up creating tyranny of unelected" what a line of Arun Jaitley
Indira Gandhi was also an elected !
@@AdarshSingh-pk7ws yeah, and she created tyranny exactly as said.
@@AdarshSingh-pk7wsand the SC court utterly failed to control her when they were actually needed
Further proof that courts are no better
@@Phoenix-King-ozai exactly that's why supreme court decided to change the older system by new system (collegium).
@@AdarshSingh-pk7ws and what is collegium if ur father, uncle, grandfather are judges you will be a judge
Arun Jaitley was one of best intellectual in Indian politics... salute you sir..rip
Debate like this should be happening again and again. Arun jaitley sir was outstanding.. Missing you sir 😭😭🙏
this kind of national debate strenths our democracy,thanks for arnab goswami for organizing a beautiful debate..hope our top brass politician could do such kind of debates with themself.
+Arun kumar Mishra This was a debate between intellectuals,our politicians are rowdies.Imagine the likes of Lalu Prasad,Rahul gandhi,Sakshi Maharaj and others debating under one roof.It would be a wild zoo.
+Achintya Srivastava that's why i said top politicians like narendra modi, arvind kejriwal etc.
Arun kumar Mishra Kejriwal? I doubt that. He has refused any confrontation with the media
+Achintya Srivastava i think if there will be any national debate he will defenetly join.but in our mug slinging politics i have dought that debate will ever happen.
Arun kumar Mishra Debates can happen but will it really be a debate or a mere name calling devoid of facts and full of propaganda and fiction.
Arun Jaitley put his arguments very powerfully, I personally have not got d answers from d opposite side for his questions about:-
1. How is it legimate to uphold one basic structure by destroying several other basic structures?
2. How in d name of protecting institutions(not judiciary) from elected representatives is not d tyranny of unelected?
3. Why d interpretation of article 141 becomes completely opposite to what it says?
4. Why no other country in d world adopted d method of judges exclusively appointing judges?
Thanks for the great debate. Mr Rajeev Dhawan should tell the Nation what the Judiciary did when Mrs Gandhi imposed Emergency, never done in a democratic setup
nice debate...Justice Lodha and Arun Jaitely put their points in a sane and ethical manner...really like the courtesy they granted to each other ...i only object with the condescending and patronizing nature of the "other" guy beside Justice Lodha..on every occasion in which the guy was put into backfoot, he resorted to pure personal and condescending comments...
+Prabhendu Pandey That guy is Rajeev Dhawan, Highly educated, well meaning, But a pompous, Self righteous prick. He uses brutish language, and roguish approach most of his arguments and debates. I still remember how he made a Supreme Court judge recuse himself in Radia Tapes case.
His arguments here were solid from a libertarian point of view (which sees state as evil), but very weak when it comes to addressing "Who will judge judges".
+hkollar1 sach baat buri hi lga karti hai bhai !
thats the way the truth should be spoken, not like a fairytale, he is a upright man, no pleaser like u.
First think U ppl to make my point again..look at your last phrase..and comment made by Kuwar. Abhai Singh Chauhan ...both are similar comments except for your last phrase...this presumption is what I am talking about...
the person sitting next to Dhawan was Chief Justice of India..he was also against Jaitely but never in the debate he went personal...
amazing debate. great luminaries arguing against each other. never saw such a debate earlier. thanks to Arnab
1:31:34
"Mr. Dasgupta, suck your own lollipop" - Rajeev Dhavan, 2015
At first I thought it was Lalu Yadav sitting next to justice Lodha, based on what he was saying, and how he was making ad-hominem attacks on Jaitley. Later, I became convinced that he was indeed a Lalu Yadav-clone, if not the man himself!
India misses you Mr Jaitley....you were (are) just awesome!!!
jaitely dominated the debate like a rockstar
Mr. Rajiv was very crude & rude, But while I tried to understand his point He was the only person true to the point. Hats off to Mr. Rajiv. All others were very right politically. This debate should remain in the archives of Arnab.
one of the best debate ever had......such debates will help to strengthen our democracy....thanks and congratulate to mr goswami for this initiative....it will really help common people to understand such complex issues with more clarity...
Just imagine Jaitley, Jethmalani on one side. 😂
Wo aag lga deta
Jaitley ji himself was enough. Opponents were clueless about d questions raised by Jaitley ji. Further, jaitley ji is a much powerful debater than jethmalani ji. Presence of Jethmalani ji would be like another " Rajeev Dhawan" to this academic session (bcz both of them get arrogant when cornered on a academic point).
@@awanishsingh3459 Rajiv Dhawan's points are strong
@@hritik25m19 only from the activist pov, who thinks that "state is always evil"but when he is countered that "then who will judge the judges " his all arguments sounds rubbish
Justice Lodha and Rajeev Dhawan is unfortunately on the wrong side of the argument.. There is no way collegium system could be defended.
he is not defending it .. they agreed that the lack of transparency and a body to look upon the procedure is the issue .. those are the things that have made collegium system disputed ...
But we can never let the executive regulate the appointment of judicial functionaries. Politicians, wherever they go, they corrupt it.
Are you a law grad?
Interesting debate. If Supreme court can interpret the constitution the way they want as quoted by Dhawan. Sir then please struck down the reservations as no where in the constitution it was mentioned to run this scheme for indefinite time period. And please bring the One Nation One Law as this is the fundamental right of every citizen of this country and well within the constitutional rights. If you can interpret the law as you wish(like you did with NJAC) so as to suite you better, then why can't you impose the constitutional rights of Equality of all citizens of this country.
Reservation was implemented at the time of independence to ensure that people of backward classes would be given some extra benefits so that they can be at par with higher castes at that time and it was proposed that reservation status should be checked after every ten years depending on the needs of the country. But due to their own greeds no political party actually tries to modify or update it according to present day requirements. Also it was due to Supreme Court order according to which reservation was fixed at max of 50 % but now Rajasthan govt proposed to increase that to 54%
+Aloo Samosa Aha! But the SC will not do that! They will continue with everything that will make them score brownie points with the aam janta!
+Ramesh Garg If these judges have the balls to cut down NJAC, why not reservations? Why push it on political parties to remove reservations? Where is their boldness, their courage to do the right thing in this case, and remove reservations totally? If at all they want reservations in perpetuity, base it on economic need, not some obsolete "caste/SC/OBC/.." status where in ppl Babu Jagjivan Rams and his daughter abuse reservations despite being filthy rich. There are poor in all "castes/classes" that need help. Why starve poor "upper" caste/class?
Satyaji my main point is that there is no problem in transparency in judiciary and executionary as well and this can be easily ensured by bringing both completely under RTI. But my main worry is that no political party in India acc to me has the credibility to ensure that if judges are appointed by executive then they will remain honest in their working. It can create even make matters worse if people lose the right to protest against the government whosoever remains in power. And regarding the reservation issue if judges start taking all decisions themselves than what is the point of executives. So the best thing is that transparency is ensured in such a way that political parties are kept out so that independence of judiciary remains unless there are some major reforms to ensure complete transparency is bought about among political parties themselves.
Those people who are against reservation policy, they must understand Indian social structure, evils of caste system, hierarchy and inequality exist in Indian society. Reservation just ensure participation. if you don't want that deprived section should stand with or equal to you then people try to reinstigate casteist notion.
Finally something on Times Now which I can bear.
how I wish Mr Jethmalani was invited
DUDE THAT'S SO ON POINT!! JUST WISHED THAT JETH MALANI WOULD HAVE WARMED ONE OF THOSE SEATS ON THE DIAS
It was really a worthy debate, worth time spending. It was fruitful. Debate like this should be often conducted to make the issues related to politics, economics, and others comprehendible to general public as they superficially know these topics. I would also like to say that there is big problem with a few judicial, political people, they start rebuking the person who doesn't have the knowledge of their sphere, instead they should politely address the query or the issue to the one who is mere a tyro other than lashing out at one.
I watched it 6 years back and iam watching it again and if there is anything that compelled me to do so again is the sheer articulation of thoughts on the subject by Mr Jaitley (i miss you Sir) and an unconventional display of rowdy sophestication by Mr Dhawan while expressing his thoughts.
Nice to see such debates are taking place in India.Some digression from subject still worthy of listening.And such dignitaries coming together for debate shows a bright future of Indian Democracy.The point of NJAC still remains unsolved and unclear.
"Mr. Das gupta,suck your own lollipop" .This was hillarious.
I am a legend watching it after 7 year's.
Very good points Raised by Jaitley.
Jaitley rightly pointed out that Judges are looking at exclusivity of judiciary rather then primacy. It is important to have checks and balances. Isnt it necessary for law minister to be a part of the NJAC. If it was politicizing the appointments why even have such a position (Law - Minister) in the cabinet... Gymkhana membership was the perfect description of Indian judicial System currently. The doctrine of having safegaurds for basic structure is not mentioned in the constitution why the debate?????
Rajiv dhawan is one of the most unmannered senior lawyers I have ever seen .
He's a crook
i know the content of the debate is top notch, but please provide atleast 720p resolution
+siddhant ingole agree. but one has to note the length of video. its 2hr video. they should have uploaded it in parts.
+siddhant ingole why do you want to see arnab and other people in HD. What purpose will it solve.
+tHe_VaGaBonD You do not need to upload such videos in parts.
You can have 2+ hour videos in 4K uploaded in UA-cam.
Pratik Chirania of course. But uploading takes time particularly when you don't have OFC.
They are Times Now :) doubt they have bandwidth issues.
I agree that people like us would find it hard at homes.
I believe you meant optical fibre channel by OFC.
I appreciate this debate as it occurred in a debatable environment.There must a system to appoint judges.judges. Lakhs of cases are pending.Judges even if their verdicts are challenged in upper courts go unpunished.A judge must be upright,just,reasonable and rational & impartial.He must be honest & sincere and looking to be so in heart & spirit.But if not so there must be some provision for the same.We cannot expect good judiciary from bad legislature
This is what is truly called 'CLASH OF TITANS'
nice
What a great, intellectual discussion was going on until Rajeev opened.
very knowledgable and informative....
Soli sorabjee - what am I doing here?
Dhawan and Jaitely were in Attacking mode and ready to interrupt when they think so to do, Lodha got chances again and again without interrupting bcs he was CJI where as Sorabjee was not a CJi nor had capacity to interrupt in between loudly
Arun Jaitley is damn good!!! 🙌🙌
Well done Rajiv Dhawan sir, Atleast somebody like you put across the nation concerns so strongly.
Salute to you sir!!
+Manas Tiwari he was not answering question just making personal comments , debates doesn't work like that..
+Aditya Jain I agree that he did some personal comments which could be avoided however I personally feel executives should not be part of the selection process. Judiciary plays important role unbiasedly when things go wrong in the system. I agree that current selection process is opaque which could be improved to make it better. The Supreme court has given remarkable judgements where some of them goes against ruling government. It would never be easy for an individual if he gets favor from any political part. I would in favor to improve the current selection process which brings more transparency instead of completely restructuring it.
What yaar. ..u r giving complement to the who spoiled debate environment by making personal comments and talked in rubbish manner. .He is not the right person to that stage. .
+Ravikumar T Dude I complemented him for bringing common man concern in public forum as there are many people who do not aware of importance of that remarkable judgement which he was supporting in the debate however I already agreed in my previous remark that personal comments should have been avoided.
@Arun jailtly..would you make political party under RTI.
wonderful...thanks to arnab for this
Did I hear this joker say 'the greatest power in the constitution is vested in the judiciary'? The judiciary with 3 lakh core pending appointments whose judges to date go on 3 month summer vacations on full pay? 😅
Arun Jaitley is right and R M Lodha is right on some points. Rajeev Dhawan is a pure idiot not making points. The system has to be transparent and you can't just aside legislative member.
Great debate ! Rajiv Dhawan tops
What an engaging debate!!
Wonderful presentation
That was really a superb debate,I noticed judiciary on backfoot on some stages like claiming to have a capable working institution, I don't no on what basis may be only considering the working of supreme Court and high courts. In practical world the lower courts are running too late for trials and still got a huge cases pending,the cases dealing with the problems of common people.
Now when the people are promised by offerings of speedy trials and transparency of the system by the government side then the supreme court should must let government help them for the betterment of the system as a promise made to the people and under article 74 and 75 they got a provision for that.
This debate should be avoided to be called as judiciary vs executive. Let it be for a betterment of constitution with coming time.
+Mohit kumar singh I agree no organization can function unilaterally.
Very specific and clear submission by Mr. Arun jately
Very good
7:42 is when debate starts
Arnab Goswami if you ever read this...I really was getting pissed off at you with your daily ranting at 9 even though your views were fine...But this debate changed it all and along with me I believe many others also feel that you can carryout many more civilised debates such as this and sincerely request you to carry this format and mannerism into your daily debates...
+Abdul Rehman so true
It is only because of the moderator no constructive solution was reached. It is saddening to see the moderator interrupting the former Chief Justice of India when he was recommending the solutions.
An educative and interesting debate. The point put across by the participants was straight and forthright. The case of former CJI appeared to be on a week and unreasonable grounds to some extent. Mr Rajeev Dhavan appeared to be arrogant and behaved like an educated/ intelligent Goon with a lot of sarcasm towards his opponents. The Supreme Court in my view should have suugegsted measures to make NJAC more effective and refered it back to the govt for rectification ot ensure judicial independence as thought by it instead of striking it down. A large number of people I have interacted with are not happy with this judgement which appears to be biased. Every body in the country can see the effects of judicial appointments being made by the collegium system of judiciary.
After a long time, an enjoyable debate by Times Now. I hope they take this model forward and understand that what they are doing presently in the Newshour debates is a classic case of "too many cooks spoil the broth"
Dhawan wants us to to trust them because he believes they are "good"!! Simply ludicruous. So whatever they do, no one should question them?
basic Logic of lodha and dhawan was great and have great meaning in the context of constitution interpretation
Rajiv Dhawan’s attitude unsuitable for a senior counsel
Hi Arnab . This is something new in our Indian Media where top hats from their respective institutions come and debate their thoughts on a open forum. First of all i congratulate you and times now. Also I wish you to have a same kind of national debate with the top political class of the country right from our Prime Minister & Rahul gandhi on one stage along with you and your appointed jury.
Please send letters to Rahul and PM weather they are ready to debate on issues on one stage.
+Srinivas Krishnan Inviting Rahul for such debate would be a comedy show. Let the intellectuals within the party be selected for the debate to showcase their own as well as party's viewpoints.
what a debate ...beautiful ...responsible old man ...wonderfull ..!!!
Interesting debate Judiciary versus executive....Justice Lodha was awesome especially his coolness..Arun Jaitley superb debator...So funny to see DasGupta constantly attacking Justice Dawhan.
How one sided DasGupta or what so ever DasGupta you may be,you are not fit to be a panelist...Don't be so biased.
I have watched this debate 100th time only for Mr. Jaitely , he dominated the debate with his speech ...........
one of the best debate i have ever seen.
Excellent debate as always.
very beneficial debate
In such academic debates..one might inclined to one by the superficiality of the views/debator/ideology...but in this whole debate..Mr.jaitley was more clear, articulate,firm and convincing and rational than the others.. Contradictory panelists were just played the role of opposition instead of putting forward their own view..poor argument,vague and very unconvincing rebuttal by rajiv and justice lodha
Before starting the debate. I tweeted questioning How is Indian parliament is sovereign. I never read it anywhere. Why is Jaitley presuming the parliamentary sovereignty. So his argument must fail that Legislature knows the betterment of citizen. If our judiciary did not adopt the basic structure doctrine, parliament would have made thousands of constitutional amendment, and our country would have become the country like Pakistan. But now our judiciary is much more stronger. Credit goes to emergency. After emergency judiciary became wiser. It realised that these other two organs would sell our country because of corruption, dirty politics, personal motives. My view is that majority of citizen s would trust collegium rather than these two eminant persons in NJAC.
Still worth Debate to watch in 2023!
Rajiv Dhawan was making good points, if we ignore his insulting comments on one of the moderators.I have more faith in judiciary than the legislative. Because it is the judiciary which has been protecting the Constitution. Of course, we must see more transparency and accountability with the Collegium.
Legislative is transparent . everything is done in the house. But what about transparency of judiciary . Judiciary is excersing power without any accountability .we can throw politician after five year if they don't deliver what about judiciary how can we held accountable to judiciary.
U trust judiciary more than legislature bcs Judiciary creates environment of elite ness around themselves, they make u feel that they're superior then u all including legislature in understanding the law and specially constitution and fall for it bcs Judges are not selected from u they're made fron a club of advocates, whereas legislature can be one of u not necessarily from elite club, and we generally think that someone coming from us is not more sound in logic when something comes up we generally have zero or limited knowledge
I really miss old Arnab.
Good beginning. the debate is good and useful
Why these kind of discussion is missing today.
Y can't every debate of arnub be like this
Good argument by jaitly
The main argument from the judiciary seems to be that their recommendation can be struck down. OF COURSE IT CAN! If it couldn't, what would be the point of the NJAC?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?
Well said and I also agree that though there are some shortcomings in judiciary which needs to be corrected keeping political parties and executives out of frame to ensure independence of judiciary and the best initial way to overcome this initially may be by implementing RTI for both political parties and judiciary as proposed by Arnab although in a casual way.I also don't feel comparing other countries judiciaries with India is right as the political system in our country is quite different and diverse and ensuring control of executive over appointment of judges could further prevent fair justice especially involving against ruling government whomsoever it may be.
Am I the only one to observe that the intentions of Mr. Jaitley looks cunning?
+sandip darji . i second that
Nope, u r not alone. There are other retards too.
Pro Justice Lodha, it seems , were hiding something .There should not be absolute power with any body. No one should be above scrutiny. Mr Jaitly did made a point. Any way Congrats Mr Arnab for such livable most watched debate
Tremendous debate , I hope executive and judiciary must understand the seperation of power ,,eminence lodha Ji you are the symbol of justice ,,excellent jaitely but you should not use the word like tyranny of unelected for s court .
Bright and times needed changes in judiciary .
My two cents:
Establish a six member Judiciary Search Commission. This Commission shall prepare a permanent list of 15 qualified jurists who are qualified to be appointed as judges of the High Court and the Supreme Court. All the members of the commission must be retired High Court or Supreme Court judges or experienced lawyers with 14 years experience in law. The Judiciary Search Commission (JSC) should be appointed in a staggered system (one member to be appointed each year for a fixed period of six year) by the President of India with the consent and advice of the Prime Minister. Judges will be selected from the list and appointed under the current “collegium” system.
Arun Jaitelyji India will miss your intellect and how arguments are being made and won on cogent logic and how to be precise and to the point. May your soul rest in peace🙏🙏
I believe our country need more debates like this rather than good for nothing filmfare award nights.. just saying !
Arun Jaitly Is One Of Best Orator Of India
'Vidya Dadaati Vinayam'... Unfortunate to see the learned person like Mr Dhawan was so impatient and was continuously getting personal with Mr Arnab Goswami and Mr Arun Jetley ( Personally I do feel Arnab Goswami is the most trustworthy journalist especially while conducting the debate with our Pakistani guests!! ). Mr Jetley made the most appropriate points . Justice Lodha seemed very gracious in his approach and body language while making the different point of view from that of Mr Jatley. Although Mr Arnab Goswami conducted the debate very well, I did miss Dr Swami and his well honoured wisdom . Hope for the reconciliation of the difference between nationalist leader and nationalist journalist for nation's benefit. Aum Shanti.
Judges within them should select a leader as chief Justice of india
Only person loosing from track was Mr.Dhawan.
He was more on personal remarks and rethoric.
Collegium system totally crumbled in India... After coalition politics.
Legal pundits asking Judges and judiciary rationality 🌚🌚🌚,.i want to throw my Screen right now 🤣🤣
Constitution of India itself given it to SC. The current limitation on amendments comes from Kesavananda Bharati v. The State of Kerala,where the Supreme Court ruled that amendments of the constitution must respect the "basic structure" of the constitution, and certain fundamental features of the constitution cannot be altered by amendment. Parliament attempted to remove this limitation by enacting the Forty-second Amendment, which declared, among other provisions, that "there shall be no limitation whatever on the constituent power of Parliament to amend ...this Constitution". However, this change was itself later declared invalid by the Supreme Court in Minerva Mills v. Union of India.
awesome debate
1:28:45 that uhhhh😂😂
I HUMBLY REQUEST TO ARNAB SIR AND OTHER EXPERTS TO CONDUCT AS MUCH DEBATE TOO STRENGTHEN AND MATURE THEIR OWN WAY OF THINKING OF THE OTHER WATCHING YOUTHS OF THE NATION.PLEASE SIR
Really good debate. ..enhanced my knowledge on NJAC. ..but Dhawan attitude was so embarrassed. ..He spoiled debate environment for some time. .don't call him future discussions. .
Wonderful !!
Arnab is Silent, is good, able to hear others speak
Executive should be crossed cheques with the help of legislators...
I think Dr Swapan Das Gupta made the last punch while providing data from Int'l report on standing of political & judicial class from 2011-12 to 2015-16.