A fool and his money are soon parted. That will teach you not to be a bandwagon jumper and Not only was it not a goodbye but it doesn't do anything a truck will do. But I guess you can see where the first on the Block to own something that doesn't look any different than a regular truck
The reason why the Lightning is failing to sell is because dealerships have them marked up twice their MSRP. My local dealership has 6 of them on the lot and the LEAST expensive asking price is $98,999 and the most expensive is $113,000. It doesn't take a genius to see why they aren't selling.
Personal experience. I've had a reservation in for the F150 lightning since they started taking them. I was interested in the Pro and that was what my reservation was for. A couple days ago I was contacted by Ford to convert the reservation to an order. Turns out my $39,900 reservation became a 60K XLT model since they are not offering the Pro to reservation holders anymore. So it's 50% more expensive and only has 230 miles max range. For me I'd need more range to make it my "only" vehicle and at 60K it would have to be my only vehicle. Unfortunately a range upgrade to 320 miles costs an additional 18K and that bring it to 80K with fees, double the original 39,900. So I cancelled my reservation.
This is what I love about this channel....100% spot on with all his points. Preorders bought into Ford's hype and lies about what the electric F150 could do. As "real world" results started to come out in articles and UA-cam, that certainly changed the narrative. Great honest video that tells the truth. Great job! 👏👏👏
Are you familiar with, or have you researched, what the normal rate is for not fulfilling special orders of all makes and models vehicles vs the Ford Lightning?
The Ford dealerships shot themselves in the foot with their ridiculous markup pricing. They made their money with those who can afford it, but forgot there are far more potential buyers who cannot.
@@BenHardyCars True, but Ford now has a reputation for marking up in-demand vehicles and cannot offload the backed out orders. Plus, the time of year plays a part as people are wavering on EVs due to their loss of range in cold weather.
@@BenHardyCars I have been following this and maybe what you are saying is true but there was a LOT of talk about dealers doing very high markup's when they could get away with it. So, for me it is a major rejection. I recently got a notice that I can now order but will not be ordering one. I also have a reservation for a Tesla CyberTruck which I will most likely buy if the price is right for one that has 400 to 500 mile range. The biggest problem for me with the FORD is the range and the charging network. 300 mile range for a truck that can be used for towing is a non starter. I do like the power boost hybrid (battery too small) and I think at this time FORD should make a plug-in hybrid with a much larger battery then is in the current hybrid.
@@d21mike I ended up canceling my cyber truck order, had a tiff with the wife over the looks. Wish I hadn't. I reserved the Silverado EV. Will supposedly have 400 miles but we will see.
So, I was getting the oil changed today at the Ford dealer in my ‘20 PowerBoost that I bought after waiting more than a year for my reservation to come up. While I was waiting I test drove one of the three Lightnings they had on the lot that were ordered/not purchased. They were actually the first Lightnings I had seen in person. Very impressive truck but all three were Lariats in the $88K-98K range. My reservation came up about a week and a half ago and Ford has been emailing me every other day asking me to place my order, but I bought a reservation when the starting price was going to be $39K. Today, the least expensive model available to order is $76,000. They are not even offering the Pro to the public for ‘23 and they are saying the XLT is already “sold out”. Sorry Ford but you had me at $40K. I can’t stomach a bait and switch at DOUBLE the price. I think if they really wanted to fill these 200,000 orders they would be selling the trim levels that reflect price points closer to what they led with in the release of the vehicle…..in big neon numbers……with fireworks in the background…….and a guy named Ford on the stage for the big reveal! I mean, whose idea was it to only put the F-150 EV price point up against the Hummer EV price point instead of selling F-150s to the people that actually buy F-150s.
Let me start by saying I've been a big Ford fan for a decade. I ordered my Rivian R1T a year ago and it should be delivered in about 2 weeks. The only reason why I didn't order a Ford lightning or another F-Series truck is because I did not trust the dealerships to be transparent about pricing. It was difficult to buy my last Ford and I am tired of dealerships. I am sure I will still buy Ford products in the future, just not through dealerships.
I ordered a Lightning in June of 2021. I ordered a R1T in November of 2021. I took delivery of my Rivian 1 month ago. I’ve never been invited to configure a Lightning. My local Ford dealer had several Lightnings available, but they wanted 10’s of thousands over MSRP.
@@zher47 That is really interesting. I'm actually shocked to hear your story. Ford is really dropping the ball on selling their exciting vehicles. This kind of reminds me of what dealerships did to the Ford Focus RS a couple years ago.
@@KDotdidit263 I ultimately preferred the R1T for the smaller size, tech forward approach, cheaper, and better performance, but the pragmatic part of me may have chosen the Ford had that option ever been available, as I live several hours from the nearest Rivian service center.
@@zher47 I agree with your reasonings for the R1T, not to mention it feels much more special. It's been just over a week of ownership and it gets a lot of attention. Those several hours away might be a bit of a PITA, but fingers crossed it isn't. But I still think you made the right decision.
Agreed, if you tow in winter an electric truck is a terrible purchase. But, and I humbly ask you to be honest, not give an answer to win an internet argument. What % of truck owner tow more than five times a year. And of those that do, how many tow in winter. Finally, of those that tow in winter, how many do so for more that 100miles? My guesses (and they are just that) less than 20%, less and 10% and less than 5%. I am not spending 90K on a truck, electric or otherwise, but not buy an EV because of the towing range in winter is like not by a conventional F150, because it can't swim. For most of us anyway - everyone has different needs obviously.
@@craigduncan7010 I'm in the small group of people who do tow and being in California we don't get the full on crazy weather but as much as I love the idea of an EV (and nothing to do with saving the environment) it's just not practical for me. I live in the Central Valley so winter camping (Jayco Jayflight SLX 195RB Baja) for me is heading over the the central Coast. Generally in the Morro Bay & San Simeon area. If I camped at a campground in Morro Bay I could roll the dice on a 50A camp spot and hope the campground doesn't catch on and show me the road. There's currently zero DCFC stations in that area. EA is building one in Morro Bay. The closest spots are over in Paso Robles. There are some public L2 chargers at Hearst Castle but since you can't hang out on top of the hill anymore that's not a great option. The summer I usually head up into the mountain to escape the heat (100F). That's a 6000-7000' climb up. Though it's not an incredibly long drive. But then I like to go explore the forest. There's no DCFC where I typically go (Sierra NF, Sequoia NF). There might be some L2 charging available. I just went from a 2017 to a 2023 F150 with the 3.5 EcoBoost with a 36 gallon tank. My longest tank while towing was 370-380 miles last year and was almost 29 gallons. I made it from Moran, WY to Spanish Fork, UT. I did make a few stops; lunch in Jackson, WY, and Evanston, WY for a potty break. My usual summer trip is 2000-3000 miles and I'll do 500 mile days which takes about 12 hrs total clock time and run 60-65. This summer I'll do 3x400 mile days each way heading to Rocky Mountain NP in CO. If I wasn't towing it would probably be a satisfactory vehicle. I think Ford's route/charging/navigation is really behind so many others from what I've seen on various reviews. I think EVs need to be about to make 200 miles on a reasonable charge (0-80%). That last 20% isn't really a great option road tripping unless you are doing that overnight. I like the Lightning's looks. The R1T is ok. The front end looks like something that should be orange and yellow with a Fischer-Price logo. The rest looks great. Just not a fan of the front. The CT is ugly as sin.
@@craigduncan7010 the big brands destroyed the trucks that people really needed like Dakota, Ranger, etc and then ford brings us a 10 year anger from overseas that is complete bullshit. If they really wanted to jump in this then sell a full electric or diesel hybrid maverick that Home Depot weekend warriors would eat up. They want to sell everyone a 1500 or higher.
Exactly. Guys who own truck either live in suburbs, outskirts of the suburbs, or in the country. Electrical vehicles are not going to get the job done. We drive too much
I bought a 21 F150 STX 2.7l, Crew 4x4 in late 21 for $43k new. Just returned from a spring break trip of 1100 miles each way and average 23 mpg. With the extended range tank I can go over 700 miles without fueling. When I’m pulling my camper, I get 8-11 mpg and 250-300 range. Nothing against EV’s but they have to become more practical then they are now.
Ford should have just sold them to the folks that had them reserved at the price they reserved them for-like me. Problem solved. I held a reservation for over a year with no updates on when it would move to order status. Had a few dealers call me asking if I wanted to pay 10 to 15k mark-up. Ultimately canceled my reservation after waiting a year + when I started to hear about the range loss in the cold.
The Detroit Free Press says that Ford cannot make Lightenings fast enough. On the F150 lightening owners group there are people proudly posting pictures of Lightenings they have waited months for. They are also mentioning that dealers are offering to buy them from them so that they can get one to display. And they are talking to salesman who tell them not to get an electric car. FUD fear uncertainty and doubt. Because dealers
@@davidgray8089 Full disclosure I have no interested in any car company, and I think there is only a small chance that Ford will be an independent company in 10 years. When sub 5000 dollar EVs hit the market maybe this year it will be an existential threat to all American car companies.
The F-150 lightning is probably sufficient for me. I don't tow, I just want a large cargo space to help friends with moving every so often. But the sticker price is just way too much to justify. Fingers crossed for the Silverado EV WT
GM announced last November the Silverado WT starting price will be : Silverado EV 3WT - $72,905 MSRP (includes $1,895 destination freight charge) Silverado EV 4WT - $77,905 MSRP (includes $1,895 destination freight charge)
Feature deletes may be part of the cancellations. Ford has been removing Lariat features like the heated steering wheel, the smart scale and hitch, and the intrusion sensor. They’ll give you a pittance as a credit for the deletes. Makes it even harder to stomach the price increases.
I had a reservation for the F150 Lightning, and when my time came to order I had lost the desire to go through with it. All the negatives kept running through my head... Lack of reliable charging network, no towing range, high price, shady dealer mark-ups, and a slow down in the resale market was starting to show. Now I own a Tesla Model Y, and I let my 18 year old son keep my old 2014 F150 so that I would have a truck around when I need it. I'm very happy with my decision.
Hunted with a 50lb recurve bow. Drove a truck with manuel transmission and windows for 500,000 miles. I guess living below your means is the key to contentment 'cause I have no complaints.
I put down $100 on a reservation when it was announced. But yeah, watching videos on how useless it really was as a pickup truck convinced me to go another route. Even more so, I needed a good long distance family vehicle and it wasn't even going to fill that role.
So it's not useless as a pickup truck, but I wouldn't want it if I drove long distance. My questions is what did you think it was going to do that it doesn't? Did you think it would tow 300 miles? Do people not realize towing takes more energy? Ice trucks take huge hits on towing range... you can just fill them back up in under 5 minutes. I'd love to have one, would work great for me, they are just to expensive and I rarely buy the fisrt model of anything.
@@Tobal5334 in some ways I agree but after having a Tesla and driving other electrical vehicles I have found that the stated range is not really real world range. I live in a colder city and “300” miles really is about 210 in the cold. Start using heated seats, defroster, heated stressing wheel, Apple car play and AC and that all uses range. The infrastructure for charging is still not great. I have a level 2 charger at my house but for trips it’s not good. My wife and I drive 800 miles and we had to stop every 200 miles and charge for 30 minutes. Not idea and the price point is to high. I can buy the Same truck for $65k and have $20k in savings to add to gas. That’s about 10 years of gas compare to electricity.
I bought my Lightning Lariat in August 2022 after waiting 457 days since reservation. My dealer was great, no markup and keep an eye on my order the entire time. This is by far the most fun vehicle I have ever owned. For daily commutes it is hard to beat. With electric rates at $0.11/kWh it costs me $0.06 per mile to drive this massive F150. Huge interior, dead silent going down the road, wickedly quick, Bluecruise is crazy good, all the tech, the frunk is more useful than I thought, all the 120v/240v power outlets makes it very useful, the huge glass sunroof is very nice, super comfortable seats, etc. Sorry for those that gave up their reservation…they are missing out on a lot of fun. The problem is not Ford, the problem is inflation, high interest rates, and greedy dealers.
Yes this is what I have been saying. Why Ford did not come out with the Powerboost as a Plug-in Hybrid is beyond me. How hard would it have been to find a little more space, maybe under the rear seat to put a 10 Kwh or more battery instead of the 1.5 kwh and add a J1772 to the outside. Then you could do most of your quick errands on pure electricity without using gas, end up saving a lot of money on gas, but also have a full blown gas engine and drivetrain for everything else which could also slightly charge the battery and still make the truck a hybrid. You wouldn’t have to deal with finding chargers, towing range being too little, road trips, winter range, etc. Im sure people have already considered finding a way to swap out the 1.5kwh battery for a bigger one, modifying the software of the ford, and adding a j1772 somewhere to the powerboost. EV technology isn’t quite there, let alone not enough chargers installed yet across the country! Except for Tesla.
A plug-in F150 and Ranger would be the way to go. Over time you just gradually increase the range of the plug-in battery as the tech gets better. If Jeep can do it, Ford definitely could. I see the 4XE's everywhere.
I own a Ford Maverick hybrid and I love it. I don't understand why Ford doesn't put a 7.5 kwh battery in the Maverick and add a charger port. It would than qualify for the $7,500 ev tax credit. It would get the cost of the basic PHEV Maverick well below $20,000 after the tax credit. Ford would sell 1/2 a million per year.
My uncle put in a reservation for it forever ago. He didn’t do much research on it. It finally came into our local ford dealership last week. He went to finalize everything, but started to do some research. He asked them if the battery life while towing numbers were true (he tows a lot for his business 4-5 times a week). They said yes that range when towing was correct. He said give it to the next guy because that ain’t gonna work lol. He then went and bought a new gas truck 😂
@@lgmisfit10 yeah, buuuuuuuuuut.... its easy to carry fuel cans, install a larger tank, or just quickly refuel along the way. None of which can be done with an electric vehicle.
@@JordonPatrickMears11211988 Of course, but it’s obvious that electric vehicles/trucks aren’t for everyone. Keep in mind that these Electric trucks are new they have a long way to go, anyone buying one should know that the range battery will increase as technology advances so I don’t know why anyone would think otherwise- not much research required.
Yes, PHEV models should be part of their strategy...Especially, if they can develop small, light weight battery packs that give the vehicle around 100 miles on a full charge for typical commuting. As far as a "Work" and/or "Towing" vehicle, that's where the PHEV would really shine in terms of practicality...Because as we speak, it's going to be years before they can develop a practical battery pack that is cheap, reliable, safe, and has enough range in multiple weather conditions to satisfy all the requirements that the consumer is expecting.
It will be very, very interesting to see what the Cybertruck prices, specs and features are going to be. Already in initial production, first deliveries eminent. Specs/features revealed, prices announced, open to orders day now.
A very logical analysis. I fully agree with plug-in F150 would be much more practical than F150 lighting, although plug-in trucks would be still behind gas-only trucks without government incentives.
The old government incentives argument. Go lookup the amount of government incentives the oil companies receive every year. EV and hybrid incentives are a minuscule fraction of what oil companies receive. From OilChange International, “These governments are providing support to oil, gas, and coal companies to the tune of $444 billion per year, between direct national subsidies, domestic and international finance, and state-owned enterprise investment.”
I think you are spot on. I'm not a big EV fan. I wouldn't have time for an EV to charge, plus people don't realize when all the charging stations are built, charging your EV is not going to be free! Electricity is not free! My electric bill was double in January!
@@phileasler5401 Where do you think electricity comes from? Primarily coal, gas & oil bud. Apparently you need to go back to school to do some math. The extra cost and markup of an EV, would take you approximately 400 full tanks of gas to make up just to break even. That's YEARS and maybe decades of driving for some people.
I have a hyundai kona ev, electric bill increased $10 month. Drove it 12000 miles in a year. There is no real argument that evs are not more efficient. However you can't convert millions of vehicles to evs without a huge upgrade in the power grid, we already have outages and blackouts from over use. Infrastructure first, then push the vehicles, I like all vehicles, nobody should be dogmatic and anti this or that. Gas and diesel will be around for quite a while yet especially trucks.
I was ready to buy a lightning but they increased the prices the dealership stealing customer money with the crazy aftermarket prices and the truck can't even tow 80 miles ...TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT
The huge mark up in price. Takes too long to charge. Range isn’t good for a truck. Lack of charging stations. If available, & you can find one, it isn’t safe to pull up & charge your truck. There are more reasons to not buy the Lightning.
Well summarized. In fact last weekend when I bought my 2023 F150 Raptor there was an unsold Mach E sitting right next to it. I had a chuckle. If you ever expected that the Lightning was going to be able to do "normal" truck stuff in a real world application then you are in your own little dream world. Remember the commercial that showed a family towing their big airstream camper behind the Lightning to the middle of the woods and then have the whole camp site plugged into the truck..."how were these people gonna get home?" was the first practical question that came up in my mind. EVs are a niche market and until its a fool proof system that can work for everyone ICE vehicle (any form) will still dominate the market.
Well, not really. That is the case for some EV’s. Tesla is not a in a niche market except for it’s high priced models. With the charging infrastructure they have, and no dealerships to jack up the prices they are all over the place here in California. Only disadvantage I see for any EV is colder states with long Winters. EV’s hate the cold, and their range drops significantly. I think the Cyber Truck falls into a niche market for sure. The Raptor falls into that category also.
I was initially pretty excited about the Lightning. Even put $100 deposit to get on the waiting list. Canceled my order after watching a couple UA-cams and a little internet research. Price increase after price increase, but most of all it was the terrible range in colder weather! Happily will keep driving my F150, coyote V8 with 6 speed Tran, less than 100,000 miles.
I backed out of my 2023 Lariat Lightning after it got delivered . I originally got into the game to save money on gas . I realized it would cost me MORE to drive the Lightning than my 2019 Lariat 5.0. , plus I don't need an $80K daily driver . I'll wait . It appears GM has more cost effective models coming out soon . The auto market sucks right now . KEEP WHAT YOU HAVE if you can .
There are issues with using the F150 to try to tow long distances, absolutely. I do want to point out the cold weather isn't nearly as big a problem as a lot of people think with EVs. It's the temperature of the batteries that matters, not the outside temp. So, if you warm up the batteries by charging before heading out on a trip the mileage will be similar to when it's warm out. I know this because I've used a Tesla as my only vehicle through 6 Pennsylvania winters. If you head out for short trips when it's cold, sure it looses a lot but if you warm it up by driving further or charging before leaving then it's good. And on a cold weather road trip each fast charge really heats the battery so it's gonna be good for that. It's just different from gas and you gotta learn how to use it.
I've predicted this since the beginning. Teslas continue to sell well because they are viewed as a status symbol. Nobody buying a tesla cross shopped a traditional vehicle but decided the tesla had the features that most closely matched their needs.
A truck that can't do truck stuff is a huge reason. Crazy prices are the other. You have to assume anyone who can afford 80k for a vehicle can do basic math. You also have to assume anyone who can afford an 80k truck probably values their time and convenience to some degree. I really considered a Silverado EV when they introduced it. I almost made a reservation the day they opened it up. But after watching all the videos and reading lots of info on the lightning. I decided to just buy a Silverado ZR2. I don't tow super heavy, but I do tow and haul stuff with my truck often. It's why I own a truck, after all. The short range and dealing with public chargers while having a trailer connected just seemed like a huge hassle. Why spend premium money on a truck that comes with all those shortcomings and inconveniences?
And don't forget, two days ago announced another big recall on all lightnings especially early production that requires them to remove the battery and put some heat dissipating paste. 8.5 hour job and if you're really lucky they'll give you a rental. What a Sad State of Affairs
Buddy bought a lightning that would get more than 60-80 miles in the winter on the freeway this was leaving the heater off... He returned it for a full refund the next day. That truck is a friggin joke.
My Uncle bought a Lightning a year ago, paid 16k over MSRP. I told him he was an idiot just for that alone. He tows a camper a lot. He can not go more than 150 miles while towing it before it dies... He called me a few weeks ago, said he will never buy another truck until he talks to me first . He is fighting Ford now because they claimed it would tow his trailer weight 250 miles on a charge.
I was a reservation holder from day 2 of reservations opening. About a month ago I got the order email and the truck jumped dramatically in price. I canceled the reservation after a few weeks and decided to get another Raptor. I am moving from a 2017 Raptor I have had for 6 years.
A couple of corrections: Dealers only got reduced allotments if they sold a lightning with markups to the original reservation holder, if that person backed out, they could charge whatever they wanted. I would also say you're exaggerating the range anxiety issue. Hoovies Garage where a lot of people are pulling towing ranges from posted a follow-up about how the battery in theirs had issues and was replaced under warranty a day after they sold it. My personal experience is a 30% drop in range while towing, but I'm not towing an RV either. Aerodynamics matter. I'd say the rest is pretty spot on, Ford is getting greedy with their prices, interest rates are terrible, and the entire car market is about to take a dive. The extended range is the only one worth buying, and it makes a great work truck, but who spends that much on a work truck? Price needs to come down.
My local Ford dealer has a used Lightning on the lot with roughly 1000 miles on it. Its been on the lot for about a month now and they've reduced the price by $15K in that time. I'd love to know what they paid for it.
If the lightning was supposed to be a practical pickup truck and they're struggling to sell it, why don't they try making a practical basic f150 that's affordable that the masses can afford to buy vs just certain people with the extra money per month to pay for one. With loan terms of 5-8 years and higher interest rates, the price of the vehicle is way higher the longer the loan is and the total price of the vehicle is outstanding. Something has to give and the only way it'll give for certain, is if people stop buying them. Then the manufacturers will see the drop because dealers will definitely tell them about it, and they'll have to do something or they'll keep struggling to sell things. We'll just have to see what happens with this situation as time goes by.
A dealer was selling a lightening at $110k when I bought my F-150 last summer. If I was spending $110k, I'd buy something actually worth that price instead of a overly marked-up EV
I agree with most everything you said, but I don't think that towing range will dissuade most buyers. In southern California I see people using trucks as family commuters and for occasional home Depot trips. I work in construction and would find it very useful with all the outlets, the fronk for storing my tools and a decent bed size for carrying lumber, drywall etc. I don't drive more than 100 miles a day and can charge at home. If you need to tow a horse or an RV you certainly need gas or diesel to get the job done. I think the Lightning is the most practical electric truck..... except for the price.
I don't know which dealers you talked to, but here in FLA, every dealer around me is charging 10k-20k over sticker for their Lightning inventory. That's why people aren't buying them up.
Spot on. Cancelled mine. Mainly due to range while towing a boat. Didn’t realize 30% range while towing when I originally placed order. Also $82K for Lariat is steep. No MSRP mark-up. Rates aren’t a huge factor (Payment different isn’t that drastic compared to longer amort on a mortgage). Will most likely stick to ICE for another truck until infrastructure is built out and battery charging speeds improve. The tech/infrastructure isn’t there yet.
Ha ha infrastructure will need to be built every 40 miles and you will need to allocate hours of charging time between charges. EVs will not be practical for decades!
Toyota must be loving all of this. They have stated that they will keep making a full range of viehicles, including ICE, hybrids, and Hydrogen cars for California. They don’t seem to have problems with sales, and rarely have to provide discounts.
Actually dealers WERE marking up new reserved/ordered Lightings. I had two reservations. Both of them would not tell me what it was going to cost when I ordered it. It was like they were working of a script. We will figure out how much ADM you will pay when it shows. Nope - I canceled both reservations.
A few things to unpack here: All of the Lightnings you show in this video on the dealer lots are Lariats, which is the trim Ford chose to make the most of, not necessarily the trim that most reservation holders got in line to purchase. So yes, its not hard to find one on a dealer lot right now. Anyone who wants a Lariat and can afford it can find one. Just because people aren't jumping on purchasing those Lariats does not mean there isn't demand/interested Lightning buyers, it means there aren't people eagerly waiting to buy that specific Lariat Trim. Plenty of those 200,000 reservations want/ are waiting for/ can only afford PRO or XLT Lightnings. You are right that Lightning's don't get delivered to dealerships without a specific customer order, however potential buyers can walk away from taking delivery of their order for many reasons. And those trucks, once walked away from by the original buyer, are the wild west. Dealerships can mark those up however they want. Pro Lightnings start at $55k, not $60k (still a big jump from the original $40k, to be sure) As for the 1000 Lightnings on auto trader, not all of those are orders that were backed out on. A lot of those are dealer demos, and those are allowed to be marked up as much as the dealer wishes since they weren't ever allocated to an order. Also, based on my research, most of those dealer demo units are Lariats. So again, plenty of reservation holders sitting around waiting for their lightning, why would they go on Autotrader and buy a Lariat when they are waiting to order a more affordable trim? Ford hasn't rolled out this truck perfectly, but the Lightning isn't failing to sell. Ford is failing to produce Lightnings that people want to buy/can afford (Pros/XLTs).
So true. I just picked up a 23 xlt for 61k or its sticker as ordered by someone last november. The price of this vehicle is now about 4k more on the ford site. On the same lot was an xlt v6 4x4 with the same configuration for a few thousand less... so with the tax incentive it makes the ev a better deal. SO many folks ordered EVs at their intro prices thinking they could flip at a profit. I had an RT1 on order and received my delivery date, set up the delivery and bailed because I was disappointed with comunication at Rivian and thought it was too small. When I ordered it I too thought "what do I have to lose" at 74k. But with the incentives it's not so easy to move a used High price ev now. My impression of the lightning is the same as the used $8000 fiat 500e I had years ago... that is, take an existing vehicle and just electrify it. Not a bad thing. So overall I'm very happy with it, but it is not even at the level of the first model S from 10 years ago. While overall fit and finish are on par with the original S (not great) the tech / user interface isn't anywhere near our tesla experience...and I'm not talking about auto pilot. Simple things like app tech, charging, route/mileage and range estimates, and even entering and exiting are incomplete. But as a work truck it's Great and I hope to enjoy it until the tesla CT. Honestly if I was not currently driving a Tesla I wouldn't know what it was missing ;-) The Lightning is a great GATEWAY car and if you are not towing a trailer across states it is probably the BEST 60k truck out there, gas or electric.
The Detroit Free Press says that Ford cannot make Lightenings fast enough. On the F150 lightening owners group there are people proudly posting pictures of Lightenings they have waited months for. They are also mentioning that dealers are offering to buy them from them so that they can get one to display. And they are talking to salesman who tell them not to get an electric car. FUD fear uncertainty and doubt. Because dealers
@@sbhajian A lot of car companies are going to disappear too because they are too far behind to catch up. Their only hope is to stop the adoption of EVs.
@@sbhajian exactly. This was all negative and seemed like a frothing at the mouth rant. Dude needs to slow down and make some coherent thoughts. It's all about the clicks and views.
Lightnings are useless if you intend to haul anything! The range drops like a rock! If the quality is/was like my 2021 Bronco Sport....then people are getting the shaft! My Bronco Sport was kept for only 6 months! I had water leaks and the dealership diagnosed it as being welded together wrong! Great job Ford!
Ford also put out a new Ford Lightning 🚔 Police model. It has a few jazzy, high tech features but I'd be leery of buying 10, 100, 500 of them. In 2023 I never see any cops in E-F150 trucks. Only newer gas ICE version Mavericks. Sheriffs, police.
I think you mean towing. Haven't noticed any difference in range with stuff in the bed. I've had a lot of new vehicles and the Lightning is one of my favorites. Bronco was great also. Don't know why anyone would want the Bronco Sport.
@@acid357 Watch the review on TFL /or Ben Hardy and you'll see what I mean. I bought the Bronco Sport because it fit all of my needs including MPG. I was getting 26 mpg in the city and 31mpg back and forth to work. If it had been welded together correctly, I would have kept it.
Part of the problem could be what’s on the trucks versus what people are wanting. I remember when I was buying an Avalanche, and all they had on the lots were fully loaded trucks. I custom ordered one for a lot less and waited.
The ford dealership where I’m from has marked up every vehicle on their lot $10,000. I used to buy a new truck every 2 years,but now they’re so high priced I’ll just keep mine until it falls apart. I’ll never buy junk EV
You're spot on. TFL took a lightning to prudoe bay Alaska, but they had to bring along a hybrid F-150 to charge the lightning. To me, that proves the hybrid as the way to go, not the lightning.
I’m a die hard Ford enthusiast. In my opinion, Ford did not think out the box when it came to exterior design, interior design, wheel design, and power supply. If you look at the new Dodge EV pickup, they understood the assignment. Sometimes you just can’t rush to make sales, patience is a virtue and clearly you can tell there was no love with either of these two…
Great context Ben! I have a reservation for one that I've been told I can order in the Summer 2023. With the increase in the price by Ford from launch day and interest rates right now it is a 100% no-go for me at this time. I will continue to drive my 2021 Nissan Titan Pro4x and happily pay the current gas prices.
Why would you want one anyway? Unless you live where it never gets cold and never road trip .The vehicle is so limited as a truck by battery capacity . The 3.5 and powerboost are the ones to have . 700 plus mile range and cheaper to fill than DC fast charging on the road .
@@JohnDiMartino don’t live or want to live in the snowbelt. I don’t tow a trailer and it’s cheaper to drive then a Prius. Charging at home is about $0.85 a gallon compared to a gas truck that gets 19-20 mpg. I drive around 85 miles a day, the more you driver the cheaper it is. A gallon of electricity for a ev is about 20-25% the cost of Dino 🦕
@@JohnDiMartino most people never drive that far from home.. would make me an amazing truck for the ranch at 45k for a relatively loaded 4x4... I rarely drive over a 100 miles, most trips are 10 miles or less between different places to check cattle. most towing is under 50 miles in a day. the problem is the 45k one doesn't exist.
My Grandparents brought a brand new 1988 Ford F-150 XLT Lariat in 1987. They ordered it with Two Tone white/Blue 8-foot-long bed Dual Tanks bed liner PS/PB 60/40 split bench cloth int Tilt wheel Cruise Control 5 speed with O/D A/C Power Mirrors Power Drivers Seat Power Locks No Power windows. JBL factory AM/FM Cassette The 6-disc CD Changer was an add on 4-wheel drive alum wheels/white wall tires stickered at 9250.00. He paid with all group discounts tax license title under 8800 new, we still have is truck and has the 4.9L 300 Straight 6 and he got a 149.00 credit for ordering the straight 6 so the bill came to with the credit. The total new invoice was 8,650.00 out the door. Truck has currently has 84,470 actual miles. He gave it to me in 2014 but I have a hard time driving a standard trans with my osteoarthritis. The paint peeled off I had MACCO paint the whole truck for 750.00 and everything still works including the Factory R-12 A/C.
I am ordering a Ford Lighting pickup because it is much better than a ICE truck. First I will save a boatload of money on fuel as I have solar panels installed at my home, and I will not cause the air quality to be lowered for my children. Also the Lighting has onboard power outlets which allow me to use my power tools anywhere I go. Even Tesla does not offer that option. Plus I can use the Lighting to power my home in case of rolling power outages this summer. You don't need to get any fancy connections to use the onboard power. Just run a extension cord from the Ford to the most needed appliances and you can power your home for 5 or 6 days. By the way how much did the oil company pay you to trash electric vehicles?
Man, I think you're right! I was considering a lightning, but I need it to tow. Without towing, it's not worth it at all. I think the only electric truck buyers are going to be those that don't actually need a truck for truck purposes, but more play purposes.
I went to a local ford dealer last weekend. A lot of mach e and bronco sport unsold. They are hust too expensive where I live. A bronco outer banks is at $78k. Who in their right mind will buy that?!?
Over 200 Lightnings are languishing on dealership lots here in Canada. I will wait for the next gen 2025 Lightning to come out which will force these current lightnings to depreciate faster and make them affordable. Ford did a lot of us dirty with the bait and switch pricing. We should not reward their behaviour. Hopefully the Silverado EV price is honoured.
well Ford can only set the MSRP, but the sale price is set by the dealers. and yes they got ft on being able add all sorts of market adjustments to the price....
Truck prices are nuts in Canada. One Ford dealer has two Lightnings for sale (all prices in Cdn dollars, pretax): a Lariat for almost $112,000 and a Platinum for $123,000. Who can afford that? Even ICE Ford trucks are expensive: XLTs from $60,000 to $78,000 and Lariats from $80,000 to over $91,000. No question prices have increased faster than inflation, and dealers now know they and their manufacturer can keep inventory lower and not have to discount prices much.
Ford has jacked the price up again since this video. Three price hikes in the past year. Ridiculous. They never wanted to sell this truck for around 40k. That MSRP was to gain attention and drive foot traffic to dealerships.
If the Pro was still $42k, I'd get one. If I could add the extended range battery for a $10k upgrade to the Pro I'd do that. But I'm not spending $55k for a standard range Pro and I'm sure as hell not spending $80k for a long range XLT. I don't want a higher trim. I just want the longer range.
A very good analysis besides the inflated price of any EV whether it be a car or truck to me they are only practical in warmer climates. Where I live in Ontario right now it's about -25, I can just see how the range would drop if you were towing 2 snowmobiles and it's say -20 out. When I go on a longer trip I don't want to have to plan my intinerary around where I am going to charge it. In my town there is a Tesla charge station in the summer they are lined up waiting to be charged. I agree Ford would be better off with a hybrid F-150 and why did they ever drop a diesel option is beyond me. At -20 I want a warm truck and know I am not going to run out of a charge. My new Silverado LZ0 fired up this morning at -30 without so much as a groan and within 10 min the cab was warm.
I was actually one of the people that backed out of my order for the lightning. For the same reason you are sharing I was actually gonna try and flip it but now I'm afraid I will be stuck with a useless truck.
I live in Kansas and grew up in a small farming town. Farmers need a truck that will pull heavy loads in freezing temps (at least part of the year). The Lightning just wouldn’t cut it. People there buy trucks and drive them until they are dead.
Toyota in general is pulling back on there ev market. They did the mathematical thing and found out that it’s not sustainable for the future. Materials are the biggest concern.
Most Tesla buyers in California came from driving a Toyota. And Tesla is still selling every car they can produce with the highest profit in the industry. Toyota launched a dumb EV that nobody can spell or say. Bz4rtk? Rav4 plug in hybrid is a winner tho. They can't make em fast enough.
Haha.. you think ICE is more sustainable? 50% of California grid is from non fossil sources. Solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, the other 50% is from nat gas. The Tesla's use 1\3 the energy to get around. Batteries are all recyclable. Easy winner.
I have had my reservation for a lightning for a long time now. I finally got my order availability in January but the dealership that’s closest to me which my order was based wanted to have a $10k markup just to have the truck cross their lot. So by the time Ford changed my dealership to one that wasn’t charging mark ups the order availability had passed…
Ben doesn't think this happened. But it happened to far more than just you. Read through the Lightning forums anywhere and you'll see people struggling to find dealers who didn't throw a big ADM on trucks ordered through them.
That’s because that’s dealer inventory. Under normal circumstances there will be a lot of them for sale. The EV are “special order”…they are not being sent to dealer inventory and yet there they are.
@@blakealexander8854 There are no capacity left to send for "dealer inventory" because there is so much direct demand for the Lightning. In fact the order book for the Lightning is closed. You can special order an F-150 combustion too. Almost no one bothers because there are tens thousands on dealer lots unsold.
@CMCNestT the demand is soft once people found out towing issues with under 100 miles Range the Truck stop selling well leading to even worse sales even at MSRP
@@robertblack6630 Towing only affects a small, but vocal, portion of the light duty truck market. Less than 20 percent. So the truck fits the use case for 80 percent of light truck buyers. The MSRP increases and the ADM is what's killing sales. 40 percent increase on the pro, 25 percent on the XLT, then add on $10-25,000 in ADM for those models and any incentive to buy them goes out the window. The Pro would have been perfect for me. I have a short daily commute, don't tow, have solar and could have powered the truck for free. But I couldn't justify spending $75k for a truck. So I bought a lightly used Ram for $35k and will wait to see what happens in four to five years when all three manufacturers have electric trucks for sale.
@@btrotta Keep checking the ads and make counteroffers. There a few who are backing off their markups to get them sold. I just bought a 22 Pro std range with all options for under $50k. Dealer even threw in a free level 2 wall charger.
Your not quite right when you say the lightnings aren't marked up when you order them. I ordered one from Ford easily enough but when the truck was being built my dealer hit me up for an extra $20k or they would sell it to someone else. I walked and that my friends is the last time I will ever be in a Ford dealership. I would like to think that one of the unsold lightnings on the lots was the one I didn't buy.
I had a reservation for 2023 delivery and I cancelled. Rising cost and interest rates were substantial factors. The Fed is determined to tank the economy, so not a great time for big ticket purchases. Also our 2015 F-150 is running great and there is still almost no difference regarding the interior design. Finally, I think there may be better alternatives with better range down the road.
I think you are spot on regarding demand for legacy auto EVs. But you fail to mention the disrupters, and especially Tesla. As far as I know, they are selling every car they can make, and they make a lot. So where will this leave Ford?
The lightning unable to tow a decent range kills it. Unless you want pay 90 grand for a truck to motor around the city in nobody will want it. If I want a vehicle for just motoring around town I sure as hell do not want astiff riding truck with its size making it harder to get in and out of parking spaces. The Mach E would fit that most likely, but I think your right about the auto industry over estimating demand. I am sticking with Toyota gas vehicles they always give me good service. My next truck is a Tundra I am just waiting about 2 more years for them to work out the 1st year bugs.
Good video, and you are correct about the lightning. My buddy ordered one late 2021 and kept getting emails last saying it was delayed. In the meantime, the price went up $18K. He canceled his reservation late last year.
Yeah, I have a Lightning and I love it. I'm also glad I got a 2022 as the 2023s have numerous deleted features due to the "chip shortage". But yeah I was also aware of the limitations when I got it. I think between the price increases, interest rates and misled buyers the sales numbers are gonna end up looking way worse than Ford was expecting. That being said, I still think the Lightning will end up being the most effective truck at converting tempted buyers simply because it's not an entire universe of change, instead it's almost the same F150 just electrified.
Keep checking the ads and make counteroffers. There a few who are backing off their markups to get them sold. I just got a 22 Pro std range with all options except extended range batt for under $50k. Dealer even threw in a free level 2 wall charger.
I think you are a 100% correct, EV vehicles are a joke. For someone like me who tows a trailer for camping, and drives to the mountains in the winter etc., an EV truck is completely useless.
seen too many range issues and with towing it’s only for short distance also charging is not like Tesla avaiability get a 600 mile cybertruck so you have plenty of miles plus truck is lighter can be a boat in the water
Reserved long ago and likely still 1 year away from order. You're looking at $30k..ish more than a comparable gas engine truck here in Canada. Likely going to cancel my order due to range anxiety. I have a trailer connected for 70% of my driving during the summer. Hopefully battery tech or range and charging station info structure improves in near future. In my opinion the Government on both sides of the border has imposed an unrealistic timeline for manufacturers to phase in an all electric lineup of vehicles.
Not really much about the battery tech being bad, more that they just took an existing gas f150 truck and stuck a battery on it with no aerodymic optimization, so you're driving a brick through the wind.
You bring up a good point. I was in Germany a few months ago and the charging infra is so far ahead of us. Yes all types of EVs are there, as the solutions are available. It is ready and working. It is not workable here. Especially if I want to cross entire western states. Ford Lightning in that use case, is a giant mistake. Mis-timed, and you know what happens when the initial reaction is poor. It is hard to redefine and build back momentum.
I hope they don't give up on EV's. They'll start to make the towing range better after a few generations. Also in another 5 to 10 years charging stations should be everywhere. Look how far cell phones and computers have come in the last 20 years. It takes time.
Good video. Lots of newer homes have smaller garages and maybe no driveway. It doesn’t make sense to have a large ev if you can’t charge it at home or work. Also, people are worried about the pouch cell tech
All good points regarding the Lightning. As for the Mach E, the recent Tesla Model Y price drops and realization that the Ford has to rely on an inferior charging network, has buyers switching over to Tesla.
their charging network is actually pretty good. obviously not as good as tesla since they’re just entering the scene. but enough to travel around the usa at least
I had a reservation and received an email to configure it a few weeks ago. I reserved based on the original $40k starting price. When I went to build my model, the Pro and XLT weren't available to build, only Lariat or above, which starts at $75k. I realize inflation affects prices now, but it feels like more when salaries have stayed the same. Couple that with high interest rates, and people won't buy. This is all before taking any dealership mark-ups into account. I think I'd enjoy the Lightning. I don't tow, but do use my truck bed for hauling light loads every once in a while. But the cost has got to make sense.
Is Ford dealers selling at MSRP? That's not what I heard. In fact, if you remember, Ford at one point was threatening dealers to stop marking up cars. So *maybe* they've stopped doing that, but I honestly would rather just buy a Tesla, where I KNOW what the price is going to be and not have to deal with a dealer at all.
Plug-ins are the way to go! A plug-in F150 or Ranger with 30-40 mile range would be so beneficial for most people. The MPGs suck with both, but if you could get to work and back or run small errands on electric it would be perfect. You get the best of both worlds. No clue why they went full EV. I see Wrangler 4XE's everywhere.
Would need a lot bigger electric motor (and same with the battery) for a plug-in F-150 to work. Powerboost is great, I regularly get 28 to 29 mpg round trip commuting when I actually try for milage (23 to 24 or so when I drive normally), but I have to use the gas engine to accelerate, then flip it to electric to let it cruise/glide on level and downhill runs to get the best milage. A plug-in will need at least 50% electric motor increase and at least 10X battery storage . . . that's alot of trade-off. Before I bought the Powerboost, I ran estimates on gas cost vs electricity cost (Powerboost vs Lightening). With my normal driving I figure about $2K a year in gas vs about $800 in electricity, . . . for a $1,200 yearly delta (maybe $2K if you include maintenance), I'll take the extra capability of the Powerboost.
It would actually be perfect in Southern California. No cold weather range loss, great if the power goes out (can plug into a generator hook up to a house, 6 days use), get the CA driving perks on highways, and ditch the crazy $5+/gallon gas. Electricity costs though… maybe get solar as well
@@mikeflanary642 I see you deleted your reply to me from 7:49 this morning. Tacky. Link just went to google propaganda. Fact remains, pixie dust and wind farms can't supply California's electricity now. When every car is mandated to be electric California will roll to a halt, or steal power from states like mine that use the fuels God gave us.
@@Dannysoutherner Didn't delete it. Guess youtube dropped it for some reason. Google propaganda - guess who owns youtube? Need a source to support your findings.
Ford should've built the E-Transit ahead of the Lightning, and an electric step-van chassis. Electric-truck tech as it now stands is best suited for multi-stop urban delivery - fixed routes, lots of opportunity for regen gains, little long-distance cruising and lots of savings to be gained from cutting out idling.
A moment of silence for the people who paid 20-30k over msrp for the lightning
😂
🤣
I'll never understand over msrp...but..
To each his own
A fool and his money are soon parted. That will teach you not to be a bandwagon jumper and Not only was it not a goodbye but it doesn't do anything a truck will do. But I guess you can see where the first on the Block to own something that doesn't look any different than a regular truck
People are stupid enough to pay it is why that price is there….
The reason why the Lightning is failing to sell is because dealerships have them marked up twice their MSRP. My local dealership has 6 of them on the lot and the LEAST expensive asking price is $98,999 and the most expensive is $113,000. It doesn't take a genius to see why they aren't selling.
Thank you
Same in my area. Mach ev, $20k over, lightning $10k+ over. Bronco $10k+ over. Crazy that people even consider buying over msrp. No way.
Same bro, I was looking for one but it was 100K in Georgia.
TESLA, HERE WE COME
@Nunya Beezwax I would disagree. That truck would meet the "needs" of 50% or more of truck buyers.
Shocking, Ford dealers are having trouble selling $90k trucks with $50k markups…
FLOL!
Yea it's definitely the markups.
I talked to three dealers whoo all were charging 10-35k markups.
They're not markups, a nicely equipped lightning is $90,000, plus the markup
They aren't having any trouble selling gasoline powered Broncos with 50K markups...
Personal experience.
I've had a reservation in for the F150 lightning since they started taking them. I was interested in the Pro and that was what my reservation was for. A couple days ago I was contacted by Ford to convert the reservation to an order. Turns out my $39,900 reservation became a 60K XLT model since they are not offering the Pro to reservation holders anymore. So it's 50% more expensive and only has 230 miles max range. For me I'd need more range to make it my "only" vehicle and at 60K it would have to be my only vehicle. Unfortunately a range upgrade to 320 miles costs an additional 18K and that bring it to 80K with fees, double the original 39,900.
So I cancelled my reservation.
This is what I love about this channel....100% spot on with all his points. Preorders bought into Ford's hype and lies about what the electric F150 could do. As "real world" results started to come out in articles and UA-cam, that certainly changed the narrative. Great honest video that tells the truth. Great job! 👏👏👏
Are you familiar with, or have you researched, what the normal rate is for not fulfilling special orders of all makes and models vehicles vs the Ford Lightning?
The Ford dealerships shot themselves in the foot with their ridiculous markup pricing. They made their money with those who can afford it, but forgot there are far more potential buyers who cannot.
The people who ordered them did so at msrp with no markup
@@BenHardyCars True, but Ford now has a reputation for marking up in-demand vehicles and cannot offload the backed out orders. Plus, the time of year plays a part as people are wavering on EVs due to their loss of range in cold weather.
@@BenHardyCars I have been following this and maybe what you are saying is true but there was a LOT of talk about dealers doing very high markup's when they could get away with it. So, for me it is a major rejection. I recently got a notice that I can now order but will not be ordering one. I also have a reservation for a Tesla CyberTruck which I will most likely buy if the price is right for one that has 400 to 500 mile range. The biggest problem for me with the FORD is the range and the charging network. 300 mile range for a truck that can be used for towing is a non starter. I do like the power boost hybrid (battery too small) and I think at this time FORD should make a plug-in hybrid with a much larger battery then is in the current hybrid.
This truck is not worth $79 not to mention $86k or whatever they are charging right now. $70k for a Lariat ER works.
@@d21mike I ended up canceling my cyber truck order, had a tiff with the wife over the looks. Wish I hadn't. I reserved the Silverado EV. Will supposedly have 400 miles but we will see.
So, I was getting the oil changed today at the Ford dealer in my ‘20 PowerBoost that I bought after waiting more than a year for my reservation to come up. While I was waiting I test drove one of the three Lightnings they had on the lot that were ordered/not purchased. They were actually the first Lightnings I had seen in person. Very impressive truck but all three were Lariats in the $88K-98K range. My reservation came up about a week and a half ago and Ford has been emailing me every other day asking me to place my order, but I bought a reservation when the starting price was going to be $39K. Today, the least expensive model available to order is $76,000. They are not even offering the Pro to the public for ‘23 and they are saying the XLT is already “sold out”. Sorry Ford but you had me at $40K. I can’t stomach a bait and switch at DOUBLE the price. I think if they really wanted to fill these 200,000 orders they would be selling the trim levels that reflect price points closer to what they led with in the release of the vehicle…..in big neon numbers……with fireworks in the background…….and a guy named Ford on the stage for the big reveal! I mean, whose idea was it to only put the F-150 EV price point up against the Hummer EV price point instead of selling F-150s to the people that actually buy F-150s.
Great analysis of their problem.
Prices will drop or Ford will actually start producing the lightning pro
Powerboost is the way to go, plenty of power and you don't have to worry about range. You can actually use it as a truck.
I cancelled my Lightning reservation when the price increased for 2023. $95,000 Canadian is a lot for a vehicle with cloth seats.
I had cloth in my 2018 XLT, held up better than my last leather vehicle. Leather is overrated
@@johnniebkid I think what he meant for that price, it better be in leather because its sooo expensive.
I think the “newness” of EVs is fading and people are realizing that the technology is just not ready for prime time.
Let me start by saying I've been a big Ford fan for a decade. I ordered my Rivian R1T a year ago and it should be delivered in about 2 weeks. The only reason why I didn't order a Ford lightning or another F-Series truck is because I did not trust the dealerships to be transparent about pricing. It was difficult to buy my last Ford and I am tired of dealerships.
I am sure I will still buy Ford products in the future, just not through dealerships.
I ordered a Lightning in June of 2021. I ordered a R1T in November of 2021. I took delivery of my Rivian 1 month ago. I’ve never been invited to configure a Lightning. My local Ford dealer had several Lightnings available, but they wanted 10’s of thousands over MSRP.
@@zher47 That is really interesting. I'm actually shocked to hear your story. Ford is really dropping the ball on selling their exciting vehicles. This kind of reminds me of what dealerships did to the Ford Focus RS a couple years ago.
@@KDotdidit263 I ultimately preferred the R1T for the smaller size, tech forward approach, cheaper, and better performance, but the pragmatic part of me may have chosen the Ford had that option ever been available, as I live several hours from the nearest Rivian service center.
Had my r1t for 4 months and love it. Still Had my lightning reservation but not gonna buy it any more
@@zher47 I agree with your reasonings for the R1T, not to mention it feels much more special. It's been just over a week of ownership and it gets a lot of attention.
Those several hours away might be a bit of a PITA, but fingers crossed it isn't.
But I still think you made the right decision.
I think you are spot on. Why would I want to spend $90k on a truck that can only tow 30-40 miles in winter.
Agreed, if you tow in winter an electric truck is a terrible purchase. But, and I humbly ask you to be honest, not give an answer to win an internet argument. What % of truck owner tow more than five times a year. And of those that do, how many tow in winter. Finally, of those that tow in winter, how many do so for more that 100miles? My guesses (and they are just that) less than 20%, less and 10% and less than 5%. I am not spending 90K on a truck, electric or otherwise, but not buy an EV because of the towing range in winter is like not by a conventional F150, because it can't swim. For most of us anyway - everyone has different needs obviously.
@@craigduncan7010 I'm in the small group of people who do tow and being in California we don't get the full on crazy weather but as much as I love the idea of an EV (and nothing to do with saving the environment) it's just not practical for me. I live in the Central Valley so winter camping (Jayco Jayflight SLX 195RB Baja) for me is heading over the the central Coast. Generally in the Morro Bay & San Simeon area.
If I camped at a campground in Morro Bay I could roll the dice on a 50A camp spot and hope the campground doesn't catch on and show me the road. There's currently zero DCFC stations in that area. EA is building one in Morro Bay. The closest spots are over in Paso Robles. There are some public L2 chargers at Hearst Castle but since you can't hang out on top of the hill anymore that's not a great option.
The summer I usually head up into the mountain to escape the heat (100F). That's a 6000-7000' climb up. Though it's not an incredibly long drive. But then I like to go explore the forest. There's no DCFC where I typically go (Sierra NF, Sequoia NF). There might be some L2 charging available.
I just went from a 2017 to a 2023 F150 with the 3.5 EcoBoost with a 36 gallon tank. My longest tank while towing was 370-380 miles last year and was almost 29 gallons. I made it from Moran, WY to Spanish Fork, UT. I did make a few stops; lunch in Jackson, WY, and Evanston, WY for a potty break. My usual summer trip is 2000-3000 miles and I'll do 500 mile days which takes about 12 hrs total clock time and run 60-65. This summer I'll do 3x400 mile days each way heading to Rocky Mountain NP in CO.
If I wasn't towing it would probably be a satisfactory vehicle. I think Ford's route/charging/navigation is really behind so many others from what I've seen on various reviews. I think EVs need to be about to make 200 miles on a reasonable charge (0-80%). That last 20% isn't really a great option road tripping unless you are doing that overnight.
I like the Lightning's looks. The R1T is ok. The front end looks like something that should be orange and yellow with a Fischer-Price logo. The rest looks great. Just not a fan of the front. The CT is ugly as sin.
@@kazuo9721 That is not what 100% useable means. If you fly once a year, a gas truck is not 100% useful. What is your point?
@@craigduncan7010 the big brands destroyed the trucks that people really needed like Dakota, Ranger, etc and then ford brings us a 10 year anger from overseas that is complete bullshit. If they really wanted to jump in this then sell a full electric or diesel hybrid maverick that Home Depot weekend warriors would eat up. They want to sell everyone a 1500 or higher.
I agree 100%. They are a farce. It’s all to make the warmers think that they are green. When powering a pickup with a coal fired power plant.
Interest rates, price tag, range anxiety, lack of charging infrastructure. Nuff said.
Naahh they are being priced out of any potential buyer. 30-40k markups is ridiculous.
Exactly. Guys who own truck either live in suburbs, outskirts of the suburbs, or in the country.
Electrical vehicles are not going to get the job done. We drive too much
@@getdabag7968 it's not even mark-ups it's MSRP price creep. The lightning went up 15% in price.
@Blues fan Actually tons of city boys buy trucks as well
@@bluesfan6862 No idea why
I bought a 21 F150 STX 2.7l, Crew 4x4 in late 21 for $43k new. Just returned from a spring break trip of 1100 miles each way and average 23 mpg. With the extended range tank I can go over 700 miles without fueling. When I’m pulling my camper, I get 8-11 mpg and 250-300 range. Nothing against EV’s but they have to become more practical then they are now.
I canceled my Lightning order when my dealer told me it was going to cost 80,000 + dollars, anyone who pays that for a pick up truck is crazy period.
Ford should have just sold them to the folks that had them reserved at the price they reserved them for-like me. Problem solved. I held a reservation for over a year with no updates on when it would move to order status. Had a few dealers call me asking if I wanted to pay 10 to 15k mark-up. Ultimately canceled my reservation after waiting a year + when I started to hear about the range loss in the cold.
Same here, wanted a pro F150 but it got pricey so will stick w my new gas 4x4
The Detroit Free Press says that Ford cannot make Lightenings fast enough. On the F150 lightening owners group there are people proudly posting pictures of Lightenings they have waited months for. They are also mentioning that dealers are offering to buy them from them so that they can get one to display. And they are talking to salesman who tell them not to get an electric car. FUD fear uncertainty and doubt. Because dealers
@@KingBravo-lo3vc Are you supposed to disclose that you are a paid influencer for Ford?
@@davidgray8089 Full disclosure I have no interested in any car company, and I think there is only a small chance that Ford will be an independent company in 10 years. When sub 5000 dollar EVs hit the market maybe this year it will be an existential threat to all American car companies.
@@KingBravo-lo3vc Can't make them fast enough for customers that aren't going to take delivery. The entire industry should be paying attention.
The Mach E is not a Mustang.
Amen
And it's ugly as Hell..............
Should be called Ma-E. Only see middle age white women driving them.
The F-150 lightning is probably sufficient for me. I don't tow, I just want a large cargo space to help friends with moving every so often. But the sticker price is just way too much to justify. Fingers crossed for the Silverado EV WT
GM announced last November the Silverado WT starting price will be :
Silverado EV 3WT - $72,905 MSRP (includes $1,895 destination freight charge)
Silverado EV 4WT - $77,905 MSRP (includes $1,895 destination freight charge)
@@izzyryder4969 they will release 1WT and 2WT versions as well. The 1WT is what's targeted for $40k 😬
Need another friend? Ha!
I got a used $300 5 x 7 trailer to tow behind my $10,000 minivan. Carries everything I need. Moved two children.
@@Pankaic those $40k trucks will probably be available in 2026....all 500 of them.
Feature deletes may be part of the cancellations. Ford has been removing Lariat features like the heated steering wheel, the smart scale and hitch, and the intrusion sensor. They’ll give you a pittance as a credit for the deletes. Makes it even harder to stomach the price increases.
I had a reservation for the F150 Lightning, and when my time came to order I had lost the desire to go through with it. All the negatives kept running through my head... Lack of reliable charging network, no towing range, high price, shady dealer mark-ups, and a slow down in the resale market was starting to show. Now I own a Tesla Model Y, and I let my 18 year old son keep my old 2014 F150 so that I would have a truck around when I need it. I'm very happy with my decision.
Hunted with a 50lb recurve bow. Drove a truck with manuel transmission and windows for 500,000 miles. I guess living below your means is the key to contentment 'cause I have no complaints.
I put down $100 on a reservation when it was announced. But yeah, watching videos on how useless it really was as a pickup truck convinced me to go another route. Even more so, I needed a good long distance family vehicle and it wasn't even going to fill that role.
Same here. Saw the price and how low the range was and canceled my order.
Same here, I drop my reservation too.
So it's not useless as a pickup truck, but I wouldn't want it if I drove long distance. My questions is what did you think it was going to do that it doesn't? Did you think it would tow 300 miles? Do people not realize towing takes more energy? Ice trucks take huge hits on towing range... you can just fill them back up in under 5 minutes. I'd love to have one, would work great for me, they are just to expensive and I rarely buy the fisrt model of anything.
@@Tobal5334 in some ways I agree but after having a Tesla and driving other electrical vehicles I have found that the stated range is not really real world range. I live in a colder city and “300” miles really is about 210 in the cold. Start using heated seats, defroster, heated stressing wheel, Apple car play and AC and that all uses range. The infrastructure for charging is still not great. I have a level 2 charger at my house but for trips it’s not good. My wife and I drive 800 miles and we had to stop every 200 miles and charge for 30 minutes. Not idea and the price point is to high. I can buy the Same truck for $65k and have $20k in savings to add to gas. That’s about 10 years of gas compare to electricity.
I bought my Lightning Lariat in August 2022 after waiting 457 days since reservation. My dealer was great, no markup and keep an eye on my order the entire time. This is by far the most fun vehicle I have ever owned. For daily commutes it is hard to beat. With electric rates at $0.11/kWh it costs me $0.06 per mile to drive this massive F150. Huge interior, dead silent going down the road, wickedly quick, Bluecruise is crazy good, all the tech, the frunk is more useful than I thought, all the 120v/240v power outlets makes it very useful, the huge glass sunroof is very nice, super comfortable seats, etc. Sorry for those that gave up their reservation…they are missing out on a lot of fun. The problem is not Ford, the problem is inflation, high interest rates, and greedy dealers.
Yes this is what I have been saying. Why Ford did not come out with the Powerboost as a Plug-in Hybrid is beyond me. How hard would it have been to find a little more space, maybe under the rear seat to put a 10 Kwh or more battery instead of the 1.5 kwh and add a J1772 to the outside. Then you could do most of your quick errands on pure electricity without using gas, end up saving a lot of money on gas, but also have a full blown gas engine and drivetrain for everything else which could also slightly charge the battery and still make the truck a hybrid. You wouldn’t have to deal with finding chargers, towing range being too little, road trips, winter range, etc. Im sure people have already considered finding a way to swap out the 1.5kwh battery for a bigger one, modifying the software of the ford, and adding a j1772 somewhere to the powerboost. EV technology isn’t quite there, let alone not enough chargers installed yet across the country! Except for Tesla.
You are 100% correct Ford is 100% wrong if they made something like it I would own it. But no it makes too much sense.
They’d still charge too much $$
Because hybrids are useless. Only save gas under 40mph. Rest of the time your carrying extra weight and double the complexity for nothing
A plug-in F150 and Ranger would be the way to go. Over time you just gradually increase the range of the plug-in battery as the tech gets better. If Jeep can do it, Ford definitely could. I see the 4XE's everywhere.
I own a Ford Maverick hybrid and I love it. I don't understand why Ford doesn't put a 7.5 kwh battery in the Maverick and add a charger port. It would than qualify for the $7,500 ev tax credit. It would get the cost of the basic PHEV Maverick well below $20,000 after the tax credit. Ford would sell 1/2 a million per year.
My uncle put in a reservation for it forever ago. He didn’t do much research on it. It finally came into our local ford dealership last week. He went to finalize everything, but started to do some research. He asked them if the battery life while towing numbers were true (he tows a lot for his business 4-5 times a week). They said yes that range when towing was correct. He said give it to the next guy because that ain’t gonna work lol. He then went and bought a new gas truck 😂
Fucking epic. Tell your uncle he's my hero for doing that. Teach these jokers a thing or two.
I mean it’s common sense, your mpg decreases when towing as well.
@@lgmisfit10 yeah but the numbers are abysmal.
@@lgmisfit10 yeah, buuuuuuuuuut.... its easy to carry fuel cans, install a larger tank, or just quickly refuel along the way. None of which can be done with an electric vehicle.
@@JordonPatrickMears11211988 Of course, but it’s obvious that electric vehicles/trucks aren’t for everyone. Keep in mind that these Electric trucks are new they have a long way to go, anyone buying one should know that the range battery will increase as technology advances so I don’t know why anyone would think otherwise- not much research required.
Definitely agree with what you’re saying. There’s only so many people that are willing to drop 100k on a toy just for the heck of it.
Yes, PHEV models should be part of their strategy...Especially, if they can develop small, light weight battery packs that give the vehicle around 100 miles on a full charge for typical commuting.
As far as a "Work" and/or "Towing" vehicle, that's where the PHEV would really shine in terms of practicality...Because as we speak, it's going to be years before they can develop a practical battery pack that is cheap, reliable, safe, and has enough range in multiple weather conditions to satisfy all the requirements that the consumer is expecting.
It will be very, very interesting to see what the Cybertruck prices, specs and features are going to be. Already in initial production, first deliveries eminent. Specs/features revealed, prices announced, open to orders day now.
A very logical analysis. I fully agree with plug-in F150 would be much more practical than F150 lighting, although plug-in trucks would be still behind gas-only trucks without government incentives.
The old government incentives argument. Go lookup the amount of government incentives the oil companies receive every year. EV and hybrid incentives are a minuscule fraction of what oil companies receive. From OilChange International, “These governments are providing support to oil, gas, and coal companies to the tune of $444 billion per year, between direct national subsidies, domestic and international finance, and state-owned enterprise investment.”
My hats off to you for absolutely calling it like it is. This was a very satisfying video to watch.
I think you are spot on. I'm not a big EV fan. I wouldn't have time for an EV to charge, plus people don't realize when all the charging stations are built, charging your EV is not going to be free! Electricity is not free! My electric bill was double in January!
Recharging your truck from home is about 20% the cost of gas. If gas is $4, do the math yourself
Add solar + battery and you have your own power plant. Try doing that with gas.
@@phileasler5401 Where do you think electricity comes from?
Primarily coal, gas & oil bud.
Apparently you need to go back to school to do some math.
The extra cost and markup of an EV, would take you approximately 400 full tanks of gas to make up just to break even.
That's YEARS and maybe decades of driving for some people.
@@evictioncarpentry2628 doesn’t matter, uninformed dude, still cleaner….
I have a hyundai kona ev, electric bill increased $10 month. Drove it 12000 miles in a year. There is no real argument that evs are not more efficient. However you can't convert millions of vehicles to evs without a huge upgrade in the power grid, we already have outages and blackouts from over use. Infrastructure first, then push the vehicles, I like all vehicles, nobody should be dogmatic and anti this or that. Gas and diesel will be around for quite a while yet especially trucks.
I was ready to buy a lightning but they increased the prices the dealership stealing customer money with the crazy aftermarket prices and the truck can't even tow 80 miles ...TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT
The huge mark up in price. Takes too long to charge. Range isn’t good for a truck. Lack of charging stations. If available, & you can find one, it isn’t safe to pull up & charge your truck. There are more reasons to not buy the Lightning.
Well summarized. In fact last weekend when I bought my 2023 F150 Raptor there was an unsold Mach E sitting right next to it. I had a chuckle. If you ever expected that the Lightning was going to be able to do "normal" truck stuff in a real world application then you are in your own little dream world. Remember the commercial that showed a family towing their big airstream camper behind the Lightning to the middle of the woods and then have the whole camp site plugged into the truck..."how were these people gonna get home?" was the first practical question that came up in my mind. EVs are a niche market and until its a fool proof system that can work for everyone ICE vehicle (any form) will still dominate the market.
What was the ADM of your Raptor?
Well, not really. That is the case for some EV’s. Tesla is not a in a niche market except for it’s high priced models. With the charging infrastructure they have, and no dealerships to jack up the prices they are all over the place here in California. Only disadvantage I see for any EV is colder states with long Winters. EV’s hate the cold, and their range drops significantly. I think the Cyber Truck falls into a niche market for sure. The Raptor falls into that category also.
@@andrerodriguez7603 Tesla is the niche. All these other manufacturers are going to lose there A$$s on this adventure.
I was initially pretty excited about the Lightning. Even put $100 deposit to get on the waiting list. Canceled my order after watching a couple UA-cams and a little internet research. Price increase after price increase, but most of all it was the terrible range in colder weather! Happily will keep driving my F150, coyote V8 with 6 speed Tran, less than 100,000 miles.
I backed out of my 2023 Lariat Lightning after it got delivered . I originally got into the game to save money on gas . I realized it would cost me MORE to drive the Lightning than my 2019 Lariat 5.0. , plus I don't need an $80K daily driver . I'll wait . It appears GM has more cost effective models coming out soon . The auto market sucks right now . KEEP WHAT YOU HAVE if you can .
You didn't realize this before hand? LMAO
Don't count on GM having any better success.
Unless you're paying like 50 cents per kWh, I'm not buying it
@@sasca854 exactly
There are issues with using the F150 to try to tow long distances, absolutely.
I do want to point out the cold weather isn't nearly as big a problem as a lot of people think with EVs. It's the temperature of the batteries that matters, not the outside temp. So, if you warm up the batteries by charging before heading out on a trip the mileage will be similar to when it's warm out. I know this because I've used a Tesla as my only vehicle through 6 Pennsylvania winters. If you head out for short trips when it's cold, sure it looses a lot but if you warm it up by driving further or charging before leaving then it's good. And on a cold weather road trip each fast charge really heats the battery so it's gonna be good for that.
It's just different from gas and you gotta learn how to use it.
A learning curve that I will not and don't want to do.
I've predicted this since the beginning. Teslas continue to sell well because they are viewed as a status symbol. Nobody buying a tesla cross shopped a traditional vehicle but decided the tesla had the features that most closely matched their needs.
Finally someone with the stones to tell the truth. It's going to get worse. I'm in the business, and It's got going to end well
A truck that can't do truck stuff is a huge reason. Crazy prices are the other. You have to assume anyone who can afford 80k for a vehicle can do basic math. You also have to assume anyone who can afford an 80k truck probably values their time and convenience to some degree. I really considered a Silverado EV when they introduced it. I almost made a reservation the day they opened it up. But after watching all the videos and reading lots of info on the lightning. I decided to just buy a Silverado ZR2. I don't tow super heavy, but I do tow and haul stuff with my truck often. It's why I own a truck, after all. The short range and dealing with public chargers while having a trailer connected just seemed like a huge hassle. Why spend premium money on a truck that comes with all those shortcomings and inconveniences?
And don't forget, two days ago announced another big recall on all lightnings especially early production that requires them to remove the battery and put some heat dissipating paste. 8.5 hour job and if you're really lucky they'll give you a rental. What a Sad State of Affairs
Buddy bought a lightning that would get more than 60-80 miles in the winter on the freeway this was leaving the heater off...
He returned it for a full refund the next day.
That truck is a friggin joke.
My Uncle bought a Lightning a year ago, paid 16k over MSRP. I told him he was an idiot just for that alone. He tows a camper a lot. He can not go more than 150 miles while towing it before it dies... He called me a few weeks ago, said he will never buy another truck until he talks to me first . He is fighting Ford now because they claimed it would tow his trailer weight 250 miles on a charge.
I was a reservation holder from day 2 of reservations opening. About a month ago I got the order email and the truck jumped dramatically in price. I canceled the reservation after a few weeks and decided to get another Raptor. I am moving from a 2017 Raptor I have had for 6 years.
A couple of corrections:
Dealers only got reduced allotments if they sold a lightning with markups to the original reservation holder, if that person backed out, they could charge whatever they wanted.
I would also say you're exaggerating the range anxiety issue. Hoovies Garage where a lot of people are pulling towing ranges from posted a follow-up about how the battery in theirs had issues and was replaced under warranty a day after they sold it. My personal experience is a 30% drop in range while towing, but I'm not towing an RV either. Aerodynamics matter.
I'd say the rest is pretty spot on, Ford is getting greedy with their prices, interest rates are terrible, and the entire car market is about to take a dive. The extended range is the only one worth buying, and it makes a great work truck, but who spends that much on a work truck? Price needs to come down.
My local Ford dealer has a used Lightning on the lot with roughly 1000 miles on it. Its been on the lot for about a month now and they've reduced the price by $15K in that time. I'd love to know what they paid for it.
probably less than 60k
If the lightning was supposed to be a practical pickup truck and they're struggling to sell it, why don't they try making a practical basic f150 that's affordable that the masses can afford to buy vs just certain people with the extra money per month to pay for one. With loan terms of 5-8 years and higher interest rates, the price of the vehicle is way higher the longer the loan is and the total price of the vehicle is outstanding. Something has to give and the only way it'll give for certain, is if people stop buying them. Then the manufacturers will see the drop because dealers will definitely tell them about it, and they'll have to do something or they'll keep struggling to sell things. We'll just have to see what happens with this situation as time goes by.
A dealer was selling a lightening at $110k when I bought my F-150 last summer. If I was spending $110k, I'd buy something actually worth that price instead of a overly marked-up EV
I agree with most everything you said, but I don't think that towing range will dissuade most buyers. In southern California I see people using trucks as family commuters and for occasional home Depot trips. I work in construction and would find it very useful with all the outlets, the fronk for storing my tools and a decent bed size for carrying lumber, drywall etc. I don't drive more than 100 miles a day and can charge at home. If you need to tow a horse or an RV you certainly need gas or diesel to get the job done. I think the Lightning is the most practical electric truck..... except for the price.
@@BH195829 don't count on 500 miles at launch. The current 4680 battery density is lower than expected during battery day.
I don't know which dealers you talked to, but here in FLA, every dealer around me is charging 10k-20k over sticker for their Lightning inventory. That's why people aren't buying them up.
Spot on. Cancelled mine. Mainly due to range while towing a boat. Didn’t realize 30% range while towing when I originally placed order. Also $82K for Lariat is steep. No MSRP mark-up. Rates aren’t a huge factor (Payment different isn’t that drastic compared to longer amort on a mortgage). Will most likely stick to ICE for another truck until infrastructure is built out and battery charging speeds improve. The tech/infrastructure isn’t there yet.
Ha ha infrastructure will need to be built every 40 miles and you will need to allocate hours of charging time between charges. EVs will not be practical for decades!
Toyota must be loving all of this. They have stated that they will keep making a full range of viehicles, including ICE, hybrids, and Hydrogen cars for California. They don’t seem to have problems with sales, and rarely have to provide discounts.
Actually dealers WERE marking up new reserved/ordered Lightings. I had two reservations. Both of them would not tell me what it was going to cost when I ordered it. It was like they were working of a script. We will figure out how much ADM you will pay when it shows. Nope - I canceled both reservations.
A few things to unpack here:
All of the Lightnings you show in this video on the dealer lots are Lariats, which is the trim Ford chose to make the most of, not necessarily the trim that most reservation holders got in line to purchase. So yes, its not hard to find one on a dealer lot right now. Anyone who wants a Lariat and can afford it can find one. Just because people aren't jumping on purchasing those Lariats does not mean there isn't demand/interested Lightning buyers, it means there aren't people eagerly waiting to buy that specific Lariat Trim. Plenty of those 200,000 reservations want/ are waiting for/ can only afford PRO or XLT Lightnings.
You are right that Lightning's don't get delivered to dealerships without a specific customer order, however potential buyers can walk away from taking delivery of their order for many reasons. And those trucks, once walked away from by the original buyer, are the wild west. Dealerships can mark those up however they want.
Pro Lightnings start at $55k, not $60k (still a big jump from the original $40k, to be sure)
As for the 1000 Lightnings on auto trader, not all of those are orders that were backed out on. A lot of those are dealer demos, and those are allowed to be marked up as much as the dealer wishes since they weren't ever allocated to an order. Also, based on my research, most of those dealer demo units are Lariats. So again, plenty of reservation holders sitting around waiting for their lightning, why would they go on Autotrader and buy a Lariat when they are waiting to order a more affordable trim?
Ford hasn't rolled out this truck perfectly, but the Lightning isn't failing to sell. Ford is failing to produce Lightnings that people want to buy/can afford (Pros/XLTs).
So true. I just picked up a 23 xlt for 61k or its sticker as ordered by someone last november. The price of this vehicle is now about 4k more on the ford site. On the same lot was an xlt v6 4x4 with the same configuration for a few thousand less... so with the tax incentive it makes the ev a better deal.
SO many folks ordered EVs at their intro prices thinking they could flip at a profit. I had an RT1 on order and received my delivery date, set up the delivery and bailed because I was disappointed with comunication at Rivian and thought it was too small. When I ordered it I too thought "what do I have to lose" at 74k. But with the incentives it's not so easy to move a used High price ev now.
My impression of the lightning is the same as the used $8000 fiat 500e I had years ago... that is, take an existing vehicle and just electrify it. Not a bad thing. So overall I'm very happy with it, but it is not even at the level of the first model S from 10 years ago. While overall fit and finish are on par with the original S (not great) the tech / user interface isn't anywhere near our tesla experience...and I'm not talking about auto pilot. Simple things like app tech, charging, route/mileage and range estimates, and even entering and exiting are incomplete. But as a work truck it's Great and I hope to enjoy it until the tesla CT. Honestly if I was not currently driving a Tesla I wouldn't know what it was missing ;-) The Lightning is a great GATEWAY car and if you are not towing a trailer across states it is probably the BEST 60k truck out there, gas or electric.
The Detroit Free Press says that Ford cannot make Lightenings fast enough. On the F150 lightening owners group there are people proudly posting pictures of Lightenings they have waited months for. They are also mentioning that dealers are offering to buy them from them so that they can get one to display. And they are talking to salesman who tell them not to get an electric car. FUD fear uncertainty and doubt. Because dealers
Amazing how he only talks negative regarding electric vehicles. I guess he got a lot of money from some oil company.
@@sbhajian A lot of car companies are going to disappear too because they are too far behind to catch up. Their only hope is to stop the adoption of EVs.
@@sbhajian exactly. This was all negative and seemed like a frothing at the mouth rant. Dude needs to slow down and make some coherent thoughts. It's all about the clicks and views.
Lightnings are useless if you intend to haul anything! The range drops like a rock! If the quality is/was like my 2021 Bronco Sport....then people are getting the shaft! My Bronco Sport was kept for only 6 months! I had water leaks and the dealership diagnosed it as being welded together wrong! Great job Ford!
Ford also put out a new Ford Lightning 🚔 Police model. It has a few jazzy, high tech features but I'd be leery of buying 10, 100, 500 of them. In 2023 I never see any cops in E-F150 trucks. Only newer gas ICE version Mavericks. Sheriffs, police.
I think you mean towing. Haven't noticed any difference in range with stuff in the bed. I've had a lot of new vehicles and the Lightning is one of my favorites. Bronco was great also. Don't know why anyone would want the Bronco Sport.
@@acid357 Watch the review on TFL /or Ben Hardy and you'll see what I mean. I bought the Bronco Sport because it fit all of my needs including MPG. I was getting 26 mpg in the city and 31mpg back and forth to work. If it had been welded together correctly, I would have kept it.
Part of the problem could be what’s on the trucks versus what people are wanting. I remember when I was buying an Avalanche, and all they had on the lots were fully loaded trucks. I custom ordered one for a lot less and waited.
I miss my Avalanche!
So what your saying is the manufacturer is making vehicles no one wants...
The ford dealership where I’m from has marked up every vehicle on their lot $10,000. I used to buy a new truck every 2 years,but now they’re so high priced I’ll just keep mine until it falls apart. I’ll never buy junk EV
Dude I think you are spot on with your comparison to fuel powered trucks, yes electric will work in some cases but not in most
You're spot on. TFL took a lightning to prudoe bay Alaska, but they had to bring along a hybrid F-150 to charge the lightning. To me, that proves the hybrid as the way to go, not the lightning.
I’m a die hard Ford enthusiast. In my opinion, Ford did not think out the box when it came to exterior design, interior design, wheel design, and power supply. If you look at the new Dodge EV pickup, they understood the assignment. Sometimes you just can’t rush to make sales, patience is a virtue and clearly you can tell there was no love with either of these two…
I pre-ordered the new Dodge. 🙂
Great context Ben! I have a reservation for one that I've been told I can order in the Summer 2023. With the increase in the price by Ford from launch day and interest rates right now it is a 100% no-go for me at this time. I will continue to drive my 2021 Nissan Titan Pro4x and happily pay the current gas prices.
Why would you want one anyway? Unless you live where it never gets cold and never road trip .The vehicle is so limited as a truck by battery capacity . The 3.5 and powerboost are the ones to have . 700 plus mile range and cheaper to fill than DC fast charging on the road .
Titan will do truck and car things better anyway.
And the Nissan will last a lot longer. Smart
@@JohnDiMartino don’t live or want to live in the snowbelt. I don’t tow a trailer and it’s cheaper to drive then a Prius. Charging at home is about $0.85 a gallon compared to a gas truck that gets 19-20 mpg. I drive around 85 miles a day, the more you driver the cheaper it is. A gallon of electricity for a ev is about 20-25% the cost of Dino 🦕
@@JohnDiMartino most people never drive that far from home.. would make me an amazing truck for the ranch at 45k for a relatively loaded 4x4... I rarely drive over a 100 miles, most trips are 10 miles or less between different places to check cattle. most towing is under 50 miles in a day. the problem is the 45k one doesn't exist.
My Grandparents brought a brand new 1988 Ford F-150 XLT Lariat in 1987. They ordered it with Two Tone white/Blue 8-foot-long bed Dual Tanks bed liner PS/PB 60/40 split bench cloth int Tilt wheel Cruise Control 5 speed with O/D A/C Power Mirrors Power Drivers Seat Power Locks No Power windows. JBL factory AM/FM Cassette The 6-disc CD Changer was an add on 4-wheel drive alum wheels/white wall tires stickered at 9250.00. He paid with all group discounts tax license title under 8800 new, we still have is truck and has the 4.9L 300 Straight 6 and he got a 149.00 credit for ordering the straight 6 so the bill came to with the credit. The total new invoice was 8,650.00 out the door. Truck has currently has 84,470 actual miles. He gave it to me in 2014 but I have a hard time driving a standard trans with my osteoarthritis. The paint peeled off I had MACCO paint the whole truck for 750.00 and everything still works including the Factory R-12 A/C.
I am ordering a Ford Lighting pickup because it is much better than a ICE truck. First I will save a boatload of money on fuel as I have solar panels installed at my home, and I will not cause the air quality to be lowered for my children. Also the Lighting has onboard power outlets which allow me to use my power tools anywhere I go. Even Tesla does not offer that option. Plus I can use the Lighting to power my home in case of rolling power outages this summer. You don't need to get any fancy connections to use the onboard power. Just run a extension cord from the Ford to the most needed appliances and you can power your home for 5 or 6 days. By the way how much did the oil company pay you to trash electric vehicles?
Man, I think you're right! I was considering a lightning, but I need it to tow. Without towing, it's not worth it at all. I think the only electric truck buyers are going to be those that don't actually need a truck for truck purposes, but more play purposes.
Sadly most truck owners don't actually tow much.
Or use it for truck purposes.
Wait for cybertruck hopefully
@@88500990 Also don't know how to shift a manual transmission.
I went to a local ford dealer last weekend. A lot of mach e and bronco sport unsold. They are hust too expensive where I live. A bronco outer banks is at $78k. Who in their right mind will buy that?!?
Over 200 Lightnings are languishing on dealership lots here in Canada. I will wait for the next gen 2025 Lightning to come out which will force these current lightnings to depreciate faster and make them affordable. Ford did a lot of us dirty with the bait and switch pricing. We should not reward their behaviour. Hopefully the Silverado EV price is honoured.
Same for Ram's EV pickup. Hopefully some honest-to-goodness competition will benefit the consumer from here on out.
well Ford can only set the MSRP, but the sale price is set by the dealers. and yes they got ft on being able add all sorts of market adjustments to the price....
Truck prices are nuts in Canada. One Ford dealer has two Lightnings for sale (all prices in Cdn dollars, pretax): a Lariat for almost $112,000 and a Platinum for $123,000. Who can afford that? Even ICE Ford trucks are expensive: XLTs from $60,000 to $78,000 and Lariats from $80,000 to over $91,000.
No question prices have increased faster than inflation, and dealers now know they and their manufacturer can keep inventory lower and not have to discount prices much.
The ev is the reason the useless 'government' ordered them to double prices.. our tax dollars will keep Ford afloat for a couple years.
Bruv, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Silverado EV 100K?
The usability of the truck is why it's not selling.
Companies need "real" work trucks and that's why the trucks are sitting on the lots.
Ford has jacked the price up again since this video. Three price hikes in the past year. Ridiculous. They never wanted to sell this truck for around 40k. That MSRP was to gain attention and drive foot traffic to dealerships.
If the Pro was still $42k, I'd get one. If I could add the extended range battery for a $10k upgrade to the Pro I'd do that. But I'm not spending $55k for a standard range Pro and I'm sure as hell not spending $80k for a long range XLT. I don't want a higher trim. I just want the longer range.
Came here to say this
A very good analysis besides the inflated price of any EV whether it be a car or truck to me they are only practical in warmer climates. Where I live in Ontario right now it's about -25, I can just see how the range would drop if you were towing 2 snowmobiles and it's say -20 out. When I go on a longer trip I don't want to have to plan my intinerary around where I am going to charge it.
In my town there is a Tesla charge station in the summer they are lined up waiting to be charged. I agree Ford would be better off with a hybrid F-150 and why did they ever drop a diesel option is beyond me. At -20 I want a warm truck and know I am not going to run out of a charge.
My new Silverado LZ0 fired up this morning at -30 without so much as a groan and within 10 min the cab was warm.
I was actually one of the people that backed out of my order for the lightning. For the same reason you are sharing I was actually gonna try and flip it but now I'm afraid I will be stuck with a useless truck.
I live in Kansas and grew up in a small farming town. Farmers need a truck that will pull heavy loads in freezing temps (at least part of the year). The Lightning just wouldn’t cut it. People there buy trucks and drive them until they are dead.
There just aren’t that many really dumb people out there in the market for a poor quality, poor range, way overpriced electric vehicle.
Toyota in general is pulling back on there ev market. They did the mathematical thing and found out that it’s not sustainable for the future. Materials are the biggest concern.
BYD and CATL are going into production this year with EVs powered (partially for now) by sodium-ion batteries. Toyota is lying to retain customers.
Deven, Toyota is blowing fumes up your @ss
Toyota will end up like Blockbuster
Most Tesla buyers in California came from driving a Toyota. And Tesla is still selling every car they can produce with the highest profit in the industry. Toyota launched a dumb EV that nobody can spell or say. Bz4rtk?
Rav4 plug in hybrid is a winner tho. They can't make em fast enough.
Haha.. you think ICE is more sustainable?
50% of California grid is from non fossil sources. Solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, the other 50% is from nat gas. The Tesla's use 1\3 the energy to get around. Batteries are all recyclable. Easy winner.
I have had my reservation for a lightning for a long time now. I finally got my order availability in January but the dealership that’s closest to me which my order was based wanted to have a $10k markup just to have the truck cross their lot. So by the time Ford changed my dealership to one that wasn’t charging mark ups the order availability had passed…
Ben doesn't think this happened. But it happened to far more than just you. Read through the Lightning forums anywhere and you'll see people struggling to find dealers who didn't throw a big ADM on trucks ordered through them.
There are over 1400 F-150 combustion pickups sitting on lots in Southern California unsold.
That’s because that’s dealer inventory. Under normal circumstances there will be a lot of them for sale. The EV are “special order”…they are not being sent to dealer inventory and yet there they are.
@@blakealexander8854 There are no capacity left to send for "dealer inventory" because there is so much direct demand for the Lightning. In fact the order book for the Lightning is closed. You can special order an F-150 combustion too. Almost no one bothers because there are tens thousands on dealer lots unsold.
@CMCNestT the demand is soft once people found out towing issues with under 100 miles Range the Truck stop selling well leading to even worse sales even at MSRP
@@robertblack6630 Towing only affects a small, but vocal, portion of the light duty truck market. Less than 20 percent. So the truck fits the use case for 80 percent of light truck buyers. The MSRP increases and the ADM is what's killing sales. 40 percent increase on the pro, 25 percent on the XLT, then add on $10-25,000 in ADM for those models and any incentive to buy them goes out the window. The Pro would have been perfect for me. I have a short daily commute, don't tow, have solar and could have powered the truck for free. But I couldn't justify spending $75k for a truck. So I bought a lightly used Ram for $35k and will wait to see what happens in four to five years when all three manufacturers have electric trucks for sale.
@@btrotta Keep checking the ads and make counteroffers. There a few who are backing off their markups to get them sold. I just bought a 22 Pro std range with all options for under $50k. Dealer even threw in a free level 2 wall charger.
Your not quite right when you say the lightnings aren't marked up when you order them. I ordered one from Ford easily enough but when the truck was being built my dealer hit me up for an extra $20k or they would sell it to someone else. I walked and that my friends is the last time I will ever be in a Ford dealership. I would like to think that one of the unsold lightnings on the lots was the one I didn't buy.
There is going to be a swing from EV back to ICE. GM already invested back into the V8 w/ new R&D. Horray!
Totally unexpected. GM has something up its sleeve, as they used to say.
I had a reservation for 2023 delivery and I cancelled. Rising cost and interest rates were substantial factors. The Fed is determined to tank the economy, so not a great time for big ticket purchases. Also our 2015 F-150 is running great and there is still almost no difference regarding the interior design. Finally, I think there may be better alternatives with better range down the road.
Great point, I have a 2016 runs great. Very few differences or differences I don’t care about. In a 2022
Spot on! I’d take a Power Stroke with a lower package than a lightening.
I think you are spot on regarding demand for legacy auto EVs. But you fail to mention the disrupters, and especially Tesla. As far as I know, they are selling every car they can make, and they make a lot. So where will this leave Ford?
The lightning unable to tow a decent range kills it. Unless you want pay 90 grand for a truck to motor around the city in nobody will want it. If I want a vehicle for just motoring around town I sure as hell do not want astiff riding truck with its size making it harder to get in and out of parking spaces. The Mach E would fit that most likely, but I think your right about the auto industry over estimating demand. I am sticking with Toyota gas vehicles they always give me good service. My next truck is a Tundra I am just waiting about 2 more years for them to work out the 1st year bugs.
Good video, and you are correct about the lightning. My buddy ordered one late 2021 and kept getting emails last saying it was delayed. In the meantime, the price went up $18K. He canceled his reservation late last year.
He has price protection if his order is dated before the price increases. Ford will pay back the difference in price.
Yeah, I have a Lightning and I love it. I'm also glad I got a 2022 as the 2023s have numerous deleted features due to the "chip shortage". But yeah I was also aware of the limitations when I got it. I think between the price increases, interest rates and misled buyers the sales numbers are gonna end up looking way worse than Ford was expecting.
That being said, I still think the Lightning will end up being the most effective truck at converting tempted buyers simply because it's not an entire universe of change, instead it's almost the same F150 just electrified.
Yeah well it'll be the first truck that they convert back to gas
@@313barrygmail Why would they "convert" it back to gas when they're already selling the exact same truck in the gas F150s?
I would get a lightning if the dealers didnt mark them up. And yes dealers are still marking them up like crazy
Keep checking the ads and make counteroffers. There a few who are backing off their markups to get them sold. I just got a 22 Pro std range with all options except extended range batt for under $50k. Dealer even threw in a free level 2 wall charger.
@@izzyryder4969 wow that’s awesome, thats exactly what I’m looking for
I think you are a 100% correct, EV vehicles are a joke. For someone like me who tows a trailer for camping, and drives to the mountains in the winter etc., an EV truck is completely useless.
seen too many range issues and with towing it’s only for short distance also charging is not like Tesla avaiability get a 600 mile cybertruck so you have plenty of miles plus truck is lighter can be a boat in the water
Bet you all those f150s are lariats that have a MSRP of 90k.
If you check online listings, all lightning trims are for sale
Reserved long ago and likely still 1 year away from order. You're looking at $30k..ish more than a comparable gas engine truck here in Canada. Likely going to cancel my order due to range anxiety. I have a trailer connected for 70% of my driving during the summer. Hopefully battery tech or range and charging station info structure improves in near future. In my opinion the Government on both sides of the border has imposed an unrealistic timeline for manufacturers to phase in an all electric lineup of vehicles.
I think the Rivian is my best bet, At least I know what I'm getting myself into when I buy it.
Not really much about the battery tech being bad, more that they just took an existing gas f150 truck and stuck a battery on it with no aerodymic optimization, so you're driving a brick through the wind.
You bring up a good point. I was in Germany a few months ago and the charging infra is so far ahead of us. Yes all types of EVs are there, as the solutions are available. It is ready and working. It is not workable here. Especially if I want to cross entire western states. Ford Lightning in that use case, is a giant mistake. Mis-timed, and you know what happens when the initial reaction is poor. It is hard to redefine and build back momentum.
I hope they don't give up on EV's. They'll start to make the towing range better after a few generations. Also in another 5 to 10 years charging stations should be everywhere. Look how far cell phones and computers have come in the last 20 years. It takes time.
I hope the world gives up on EV.....
Good video. Lots of newer homes have smaller garages and maybe no driveway. It doesn’t make sense to have a large ev if you can’t charge it at home or work. Also, people are worried about the pouch cell tech
All good points regarding the Lightning. As for the Mach E, the recent Tesla Model Y price drops and realization that the Ford has to rely on an inferior charging network, has buyers switching over to Tesla.
their charging network is actually pretty good. obviously not as good as tesla since they’re just entering the scene. but enough to travel around the usa at least
I had a reservation and received an email to configure it a few weeks ago. I reserved based on the original $40k starting price. When I went to build my model, the Pro and XLT weren't available to build, only Lariat or above, which starts at $75k. I realize inflation affects prices now, but it feels like more when salaries have stayed the same. Couple that with high interest rates, and people won't buy. This is all before taking any dealership mark-ups into account.
I think I'd enjoy the Lightning. I don't tow, but do use my truck bed for hauling light loads every once in a while. But the cost has got to make sense.
Is Ford dealers selling at MSRP? That's not what I heard. In fact, if you remember, Ford at one point was threatening dealers to stop marking up cars. So *maybe* they've stopped doing that, but I honestly would rather just buy a Tesla, where I KNOW what the price is going to be and not have to deal with a dealer at all.
Plug-ins are the way to go! A plug-in F150 or Ranger with 30-40 mile range would be so beneficial for most people. The MPGs suck with both, but if you could get to work and back or run small errands on electric it would be perfect. You get the best of both worlds. No clue why they went full EV. I see Wrangler 4XE's everywhere.
Would need a lot bigger electric motor (and same with the battery) for a plug-in F-150 to work. Powerboost is great, I regularly get 28 to 29 mpg round trip commuting when I actually try for milage (23 to 24 or so when I drive normally), but I have to use the gas engine to accelerate, then flip it to electric to let it cruise/glide on level and downhill runs to get the best milage. A plug-in will need at least 50% electric motor increase and at least 10X battery storage . . . that's alot of trade-off. Before I bought the Powerboost, I ran estimates on gas cost vs electricity cost (Powerboost vs Lightening). With my normal driving I figure about $2K a year in gas vs about $800 in electricity, . . . for a $1,200 yearly delta (maybe $2K if you include maintenance), I'll take the extra capability of the Powerboost.
Every single one of those overpriced , overrated, boat anchors need to be shipped to California and let those folks fight over them.
It would actually be perfect in Southern California. No cold weather range loss, great if the power goes out (can plug into a generator hook up to a house, 6 days use), get the CA driving perks on highways, and ditch the crazy $5+/gallon gas. Electricity costs though… maybe get solar as well
@@mikeflanary642 California has rolling blackouts, electric cars will make it worse.
@@mikeflanary642 I see you deleted your reply to me from 7:49 this morning. Tacky. Link just went to google propaganda. Fact remains, pixie dust and wind farms can't supply California's electricity now. When every car is mandated to be electric California will roll to a halt, or steal power from states like mine that use the fuels God gave us.
@@Dannysoutherner Didn't delete it. Guess youtube dropped it for some reason. Google propaganda - guess who owns youtube?
Need a source to support your findings.
i'll never pay 90k for a battery powered truck
Just checked Autotraded on April 8th, 2022 and there's 86 listings ANY distance from me. Seems a far cry from "thousand" unsold.
Ford should've built the E-Transit ahead of the Lightning, and an electric step-van chassis. Electric-truck tech as it now stands is best suited for multi-stop urban delivery - fixed routes, lots of opportunity for regen gains, little long-distance cruising and lots of savings to be gained from cutting out idling.
Electric vehicles are mainly for the Cali wierdos…Just sayin….