That was the most comprehensive, extensively tested and thoroughly time-consuming rendering of what lightning owners will count as a repository of knowledge on how long they can expect to be charging and for what gain in miles these numbers bring. Absolutely astonishing. Thanks Tom‼️👍🏼
Thanks for reminding everyone that most people charge at home. Many articles, especially from mass media, talk about the need to build out public charging infrastructure before EVs can take off -implying that people will have to charge at public stations, like they do for fossil cars.
Unfortunately, folks who don't care for accurate information on EVs won't be watching videos like these and only seek echo chamber videos that give them their confirmation bias.
As an ev owner, I believe the dc fast charger network must be built out more before mass adoption. It doesn’t matter if you charge at home most of the time, you still need convenient fast charging when you are not. Also many people live in apartments or house rentals without the ability to have level 2 charging at home.
@@grahamballard7364 Yes, more public chargers needed before "mass" adoption of EVs, but that's 10 years from now. There are many millions of drivers now considering EVs for which home charging and the existing fast charging network would work very well, including EVs as second local-driving cars. I've had my EV for 2.5 years, and have never used a public charger.
@@Chris21709 Agreed. My EV (a 2015 Leaf w/about 70miles of total range remaining) is a 2nd/3rd vehicle used for local driving only and does great in that role with no need for public charging. It's no road tripper, but it doesn't need to be.
Still need a lot more charging infrastructure. Especially if EV is your only mode of transport. I'm sure as the ban of ICE only vehicles comes into play in the next 10 years, we will be much better off, but until then it can still be a bit rough. More so if you're not on the freeway. A large portion of this is just simply having level 2 chargers at as many hotels, parking lots/ramps, parks, etc., as we can. Which is much more financially feasible for places like this. Retailers and restaurants would only need lower powered DCFC stations like 50kW as most people are there for longer than 150+ kW can charge up in. Well, unless you have a Hummer, lol. A lot of us travel for work and need more options. That's the cost of being an early adopter I guess.
I really like and appreciate the different charging times at different states of charge. Closer to what Bjorn does with his 1000km runs. It’s a change of thought from filling your tank with an ICE vehicle to what do I need between bladder breaks and/ or destination with an electric vehicle.
That initial high rate of charge seems to be a good thing for those who need a quick charge to add a few miles. I could see doing this on the last leg of a trip or a quick trip across town if you’re in a hurry. It’s comparable to putting $10-$20 worth of gas in a car on the way to work.
I appreciate your details on charging and you mentioned condo and apartment dwellers not having a likely option for charging. I'm hoping you could find a landlord who'd like to try using an Orange charging system, either 16 amp 120 volt option or a 16 amp 240 using NEMA 6-20 plug. Seeing the process from planning to installation along with charge monitoring for billing would be great for landlords and tenants to see.
16A 120V would be 1.92 kW max. That's really slow and comes with high relative losses. If people tackle installing EVSEs they should aim for 240V 16A minimum, or even better for 240V 48A and load management. Otherwise, charging experience will just be too bad, especially with these large pick-up trucks like F-150 Lightning.
@@koeniglicher I understand that issue but a landlord for multi unit apartments likely would not want to spend the large amount of money to install heavy gauge wire and/or have the capacity to install such an EVSE for their property. Most people don't drive 200 miles/day and a simple 120 volt or 16 amp level 2 charger will make an EV viable for them with charging taking place at their dwelling where a car often sits for long periods of time.
@@jdlutz1965 Well, a landlord of a multi unit appartment competes with other landlords of other multi unit appartments around him. Cost of installation is wasted, if tenants consider the solution inadequate, uncomfortable, underpowered as it will need to be upgraded again. Like an A/C system that was installed and was cheap but in effect turns out to be simply too weak for the actual tenants needs. At some point in time, installation cost as one-time cost of charging infrastructure in multi-tenant garages are needed and can be passed on to tenants with the rent or parking fee. What you call "Orange charging system" is not even a charging system: it is a smart generic power outlet, not an EVSE. You have to bring your own EVSE (like an in-cable control box, ICCB = mobile charger = granny cable) to be able to charge there and to provide the necessary SAE connector. I consider the Orange smart outlets with integrated metering an interesting solution. It is always good to have options as a landlord and multiple solutions to choose from as a landlord or tenant. But people should understand the power limitations of such solutions and then choose wisely for their long-term demand. A basic principle of Tom Moloughney's videos for home charging is: plug it in in the evening, it will be fully charged at the next morning. That is, what he repeats over and over and where he wants to build up trust in home charging. If you plug a F-150 Lightning in at 8pm and need to use it at 8am, it can use 12 hours of charging. But a 1.92 kW solution and some losses will only provide about 20 kWh of total energy to the battery pack during this period. That is about 60 kilometers / roughly 40 miles in this BEV truck. Or 2x30 km, or 2x20 miles. If that's ok for people, well, then they should go for it. My prejudice is => a large portion of BEV-owning tenants will ask the landlord to upgrade the garage charging to some reasonable power anyways. But I may be wrong. For multi-tenant houses, the feature of load management is the essential ingredient to make many tenants happy from my point of view. The Orange smart outlets can not support load management (splitting a power sum dynamically to many EVs) as there is no communication between the vehicle AC charger and the Orange outlet. With proper EVSEs you can realize load management. It may be some extra bucks in installation cost, but it provides good charging experience to the tenants from a low power uplink of the building itself. With proper EVSEs and some control logic you can also realize charging from solar-equipped roofs during sun-shine periods (a major opportunity for landlords!). Orange outlets will not support this due to lack of communication to the EV.
@@koeniglicher yes, I agree, different options are good and I don't dismiss 40+ amp charging equipment but the simplicity and ability to monitor/bill tenants is a major benefit over any level 2 charger that would likely not have billing option available. The fact that they are smart outlets also prevents common vandalism and negligence from destroying cords and such, another issue avoided if tenants use their own charging EVSE and with NEMA 6-20 outlet providing 3.8 kw, not so slow either.
@@jdlutz1965 I agree with you. Proper authentication, as well as metering and billing are essential for every semi-public multi-tenant garage be it on smart outlets or EVSEs. Regarding cables: here in Europe we have standard EVSE with Type2 plugs with no cables. People have to bring their own Type2 cables. Such Type 2 EVSE are widespread here, but inconvenient to use as you have to unroll your own cable every time and to stow it away the cable after that in your car. It has proven to be a hinderance in overall EV adoption. So, a proper convenient EVSE for home charging should have the cable attached and a simple cable management solution. Almost all *home* chargers now include fixed cables here now just like in the US. NEMA 6-20 outlets with 3.8 kW are a better choice power-wise, I agree. The problem that arises with them: the *static* split of the power uplink of a building (lets say 20 or 40 kW) to outlets of 3.8 kW allows only 5 to 10 such outlets in a garage with let's say 20 parking spaces. This way, the first 5-10 parking spaces can get 3.8 kW static, but how to power the rest of 10-15 parking spaces? At the same time, the static 3.8 kW per outlet are not even used most of the time. For this reason, such environments will need load management capabilities of the EVSE anyways. You could be clever and install one 3.8 kW Orange outlet for every two parking spaces, but then tenants will have to arrange for sharing the smart outlet and splitting the bill (does Orange take care of that in their system?). Still a hassle. The better way is: one EVSE per parking space, and a load management capability to send power where power is actually currently needed (an automated time sharing approach). And at the same time: never to exceed the power uplinks capabilities, which is handled by the load management as well. *Dynamic* load management solutions will even adapt at night, when people do not use most of their electric appliances in their kitchens or washing machines/dryers and make that power available to EV charging.
Very good video. TONS of useful data for road trips. (I have both a Rivian R1T & a F-150 Lightning on reserve/order, and should get one of them somewhat soon (I'm hoping before the end of the year) and since you do have both, and have done all this testing, Super useful man! appreciate all the work! also, after listening to you, got a electritian who specializes on EV and home charging equipment to come and re wire the level 2 charger I have on my garage (I got a couple of plug in hybrids right now, a Wrangler 4xe and a mini-van.
Great video showing the differences of charge times at various percentages demonstrating that the time it takes to charge is less at a higher percentage for any EV. I am fortunate that my Landlord allowed me to install a 14-50 outlet to plug in a charging station, so I can charge at home. Being able to detach the station and carry it with me allowed for charging at RV parks.
Appreciate the work you're doing for the industry. Keep up the good work. One thing to keep in mind when considering max power. There is power lost from the EVSE into the RESS. I would bet that at the RESS it received 155kW when the EVSE was reporting 160kW. Looking forward to all the new EVs coming next year! Cheers
Seems like most people will only need to have an electrician install a dryer style outlet in order to charge at home with the manufacturer included charger. That’s seems more than sufficient to replenish the power consumed for an average day’s driving. Fast charging seems to be needed for long trips or for those who live in apartments without access to a 240v outlet.
Tom, I want to relate my experience at an EA charging station in DuBois, PA . I've been to this station 3 times now and it's been fully operational each time. I've gotten great charging experiences on each visit. Today I paid attention to how long I stayed at peak charging as a result of watching this video. I started at 20% state of charge and charged at 161kw for 14 minutes. That took me to 50%. I dropped to around 110kw until I hit 70% and then dropped to about 80kw as it approached 80%. Total charge time was 39 minutes. The last time I was there about a week ago I was charging at 166kw at 10 minutes but had to run in to Walmart because my old bladder couldn't wait any longer but I suspect it was the same story. These are Signet chargers with build dates of 2020. I've been using my free Ford charge credits and Plug & Charge and it's worked each time. I plug in, the station recognized my truck and that I have credits and starts charging. I've not had to do anything to start the session. Thanks for another great, informative video. I'm anxious for your review of the Charge Station Pro. I'm on the fence about installing it because I've seen lots of post about problems people are having with them.
Well done Tom 🎉 thank you for providing this valuable information! Will you repeat this test with the Rivian R1T and if yes please share! Keep up the great work!
Hey Tom. I have the same Lightning (Lightning x-battery) and I’m getting about the same on my Electrify America charges. BTW, finally got the Intelligent Home Backup System working a couple of weeks ago. Works great!!!
I have never felt better about the 20+ miles per minute I regularly see when plugging my Lucid Air GT in on a road trip. Don't get me wrong. I love the F-150 Lightning. I have one on order, but it will not be my long distance cruiser. Ford's quick 160+kW boost charge is ideal when you need to grab "just a bit more" to get home.
The slowing of the charge at or above 80% could be the act of "balancing" all the cells. Very common with lipo batteries. Having cells in balance will help battery life and performance! Great video, you are good my friend!
Excellent video/information on Lightning charging. It would nice to understand similar info on a 240 V standard home charging (miles added per min of charging.)
Awesome, well done! Thanks! Fascinating it keeps the power boost... maybe the battery temps are not driven high enough by driving, it can always accept a certain amount of charge before it gets too hot, and thermally limits the power?
Tom, Thanks for another quality thoughtful video. Was wondering when we will see your FCSP install but I know you are waiting for your service upgrade. I too had to update service and I charge exclusively at home. Still having issues with overheating and wondering if it is the charger or how it was installed. I lowered the amperage from 80 to 60 (via the charge station applet in Ford Pass) and get about 32 miles per hour of charge and it does not overheat. (Yes I have 3.5.1 Ford Pass) I don’t do the fancy recordings and charting like you do. A little hard to do since the Ford Pass app is a little laggy IMO. I am going to reach out to QMerit for the Home integration install and ask them to take a look at the FCSP as I am sure they need to do anyway.
Great analysis as always Tom! This power boost raises the question: Can you do this multiple times, unplug, and then do it again? Obviously that's not particularly convenient, but for sale of completeness, that might be an interesting test.
I’m new to this EV revolution. While I am old enough to remember the GM’s EV1, that was on the west coast, no where near me on the gulf coast. What causes the charging rate? Is it in the batteries or the onboard charger or the charging station? Where I live, I know we have some Tesla charging places but not enough. Your videos are very informative, and I’m learning a lot. Thanks!
It would be pretty boring. Probably the same results. Too much is being made over Max towing package while charging. I've seen both and didn't notice any difference. Perhaps in the dead of summer when temps are above 90F and you've been running hot for a while. But under normal conditions, I don't think owners will be able to tell the difference.
Really good video. In my experience and research Li ion batteries work better when discharged down to 20% and charged up to 80%. The more you discharge the battery past 20% and charge back up over 80% percent you degrade the battery little by little. I really don’t like how range tests are done going past 0%. To me this makes inexperienced people think they could squeeze out every last drop of power. The range tests to me should only be done from 100% to the point the vehicle hits 0%. The capacity of the battery will degrade over the years and we don’t know how much buffer is under that 0% is left.
Hi Tom, you may need to install some sound attenuation in your garage. There is a lot of echo. Maybe à carpe you can unroll when you are recording. And sound baffle on the wall. Keep the good job your video are reveling and consistent with all brand.
28:19 I would love charts like this for charging and consumption while towing! If you could break it down to 3000 pound boat, 6000 pound camper and/or extended range vs standard range would be awesome too. I have a 3000 - 4000 pound boat to tow and want an electric vehicle again. The F150 lightning has been all over the charts with towing.
Im curious what would happen if you plugged and unplugged and replugged each time the rate went below 130?. Would it keep giving you the boost up to 160? Would it spped up overall charge - probably not great for battery but curious.
I believe it would go into Max Charge rate again. But Ford has this programmed not to damage the battery and I believe if you did that frequently you'd probably degrade the cells. Also, it would probably take longer to charge because of the time lost stopping the session, unplugging, waiting for the station to reset, plugging in again and starting the new session. My bet is it would take longer, actually
An interesting idea for a video would be to compare the costs of having a level 2 EVSE installed and how long it would take to recoup your cost vs just fast charging, I know there are a lot of factor’s just a thought
My guess is that a home charging station will pay for itself rather quickly with average cost per kWh being about 1/2 or more cheaper (off peak EV rates often available) and now the IRA passed recently along with utility incentives often make installation free or close to it.
Omg did you see the rate per KWH? 43 cents per kWh? Charge up was over $60. If gas was $2 (and it was a couple of years ago), that would get you 30 gallons of gas. If you could get 15 Hwy miles per gallon… 450 miles? Versus 270 miles per charge? Yikes!!! Fortunately charging at home is much cheaper. (I always charged my EV at a local dealership that had free charging too…)
Great video. Just wanted to say that Romex is made up of THHN wire. They are both rated to 600v. Typically THHN is pulled through conduit to make up circuits. Romex is a brand name group of THHN wire. Good to call out hiring an electrician, these EV chargers are going well beyond simple 20amp circuits. Each city follows different codes - so ask 20 people and you’ll get 20 opinions - possibly all of them correct depending upon where you live. Good detailed video - thanks!
ROMEX is TW and is rated at 60 deg C, THHN is rated at 90 deg C and has a clear TPFE sheath over the thermoplastic insulstion. It is stranded, ROMEX is always solid and is inferior. The NEC is the National Electric Code and is the minimum that is required, local codes may be tougher than the NEC which is updated every 3 years by the NFPA. I do agree that a license journeyman should do the work. --IBEW Electrician, 41 years.
Thanks for producing this. Hopefully the Chevrolet Silverado charge curve is better, because this is ridiculous. I wanted a Lightning initially, but the more real-world information that becomes available, the less appealing it is. Ford can do better.
Have you had a chance to charge during high ambient temperature days? My experience in SoCal and AZ during 100 degree days was not encouraging. First charge was fine, but it added heat to the battery that didn't fully dissipate by the second charge. Second charge wasn't as good, third charge abysmal. Then I added a 3000lb trailer heading North on I-5. Slightly cooler temps helped tremendously. Ford definitely has room for improvement to cover these cases, but love the truck otherwise!
As someone not interested in pickup trucks (pulling a large parachute behind an occupancy box, nearly always empty other than groceries now and then), my takeaway in your excellent video is that EVs are, as they have always been, in a state of flux. The hardware and tech are evolving and improving. Having said that, my wife and I drive only EVs (me a Model 3 SR+, my wife a VW ID. PRO). We’ve not been afraid, inhibited, or restricted when it comes to travel, near or far. Summer or winter, in town or across the USA, we (including our two teenage boys) jump in our EV and go, man, go. Thanks for the excellent information you put out, Tom. It is needed to counter the silly and baseless FUD that surround EVs. EVs are the life for me!
When you say “fully charged” at home, do you mean 100% every night. Great vid as usual. Waiting for your wintertime testing so can plan for mylonger drives 😎
Yes, if you want to - depends on how much range you need. I prefer to charge to a lower SOC, but the Lightning doesn't allow you to set a lower SOC target for AC charging, only DC fast charging.
Great video but I think you can shorten these down quite a bit. Lots of repeating and non-essential commentary (e.g., a lot from 16-22). Maybe you're stretching to make them 30+ mins, but if not, a lot can be cut out in post to shorten the overall time. Hopefully you don't mind a little feedback!
I love the feedback. I know I repeat myself and go slowly sometimes - I actually do that on purpose. The vast majority of my followers are new to electric vehicles and appreciate me going slowly and methodically explaining these things. Did you know you can speed up the video? I know some of my regular followers do that. You tap the cog icon on the bottom right side of the video and then set the playback speed to 1.25. You'll get everything but in 25% less time.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Thanks, yes, I watch at 1.5 or 1.75. You're the creator so you know best, but I figured you might get more views at 10-15mins vs. 30+. (I have no idea but I would guess that it's true.)
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I always watch at 1.25, both here and @insideevs weekly podcast. When I hear you at regular speed, it sounds so slow! 😊
So.... Can I take your info to infer the following? If I was on a road trip doing the 20%-80% charge cycles I would go between 160miles (70mph range) and 192miles (EPA) and then have to stop for 34 minutes to charge from 20-80% again. Meaning I would drive for 2h15m to 2h40m and stop for 34 minutes.
The odd charging curve can only be the result of Ford limiting the peak charge rate far below what the cells are actually capable of. Since the pack size is so large the 170kW peak is only a 1.3 C rate for a 130kWh pack. Contrast that with the 3 C rate of the Model 3 80kWh pack at 250kW.
Ford Lighting standard range wall outlet charge time: 20%sun 7:48pm to 100% Thursday 4:05pm. 92 hour relative estimate. Supposedly 1 to 2 miles per hour. Upgrading to a 220v outlet, supposedly jumps to 19 miles per hour. Hopefully it drops to under 5 hours, if that's true
It would be nicer if a vehicle this large charged faster to make road trips more bearable, more so if you need to tow anything. If it could maintain close to 200kW to 50-60% that would be ideal. Would keep it at a ~20 min session. You can argue it's not what this truck is for, but it's inconvenient to have to use another vehicle for another purpose. Especially when vehicles are so expensive. I really liked my 2018 F150. It could do everything living here in the upper midwest. From Menards runs, to being able to drive in deep snow, to comfortable road trips. Traded it in for a Model 3, which has been an excellent car so far, but I do kinda miss the truck.
I’m halfway through this video and maybe you cover it later. I understand the idea of charging to 80% when on the highway on a trip to shorten charge time per mile added. It makes sense based on the charge curves. Here’s my question. Am I better off setting the charge goal to 90 or 100% and stopping early at 80, or can I just set it for 80% and have it stop automatically? If you set to 80% does the charge curve adjust to come in for a landing so to speak by slowing down starting at 60 or 70%?
Love the video! How are you collecting this data ? To my knowledge people are saying the lightning doesn’t display the data like this, so I am assuming you collect it another way. Thanks! Getting my SR pro model in 1.5 months so trying to prepare and I would also like to collect data of my own, so I know exactly what to expect with my personal lightning
I worry about the integrity of the charge port with the heavy CCS charge plug and cable. Also many of the Walmart EA chargers are so awkward to pull into and on some I have to go the wrong way down the aisle to back into the charger. Very poor planning. Lightning is a large beast. One more thing is there are 2 easy ways to get the SOC to show up on the center screen and the driver screen. Hit the edit button which is the center of the 7 buttons on the bottom, if it says edit or something else it will become the edit button. When pressed you can designate it as the charge settings button and be able to see SOC when pressed. Also using the menu button on the steering wheel you can make the driver display be a "calm" screen and SOC will show there along with range and speedo.
Yes, I do know how to see the SOC on both screens. I'm just not satisfied with how it's currently displayed. I'd like to have it on the driver's display under the estimated range. It would be very easy for Ford to add it.
A lot of people can’t charge at home. They live in a condo, town home, apartment, or rent their home, or don’t have a garage. Also many homes don’t have a garage.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I encourage my employees to consider an EV, but most don't have any possibility of charging at home. 2 employees do own used Prius' and one recently bought a new Hyundai Hybrid. I think that will be the plan for many for the next 3-5 years. They will need a national charging network, like our current chain of gas stations, in order to make the leap to an EV. (Of course if someone can charge at home, it is a totally different decision process...)
@@Team_Trade_Down Yes, that ability to charge at home (or work) makes EV life easy. Public charging is improving dramatically and hopefully the Inflation Reduction Act funds will jumpstart a comprehensive national network of charging stations.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Gabe Klein....we are counting on you! (But isn't the plan to disburse the money to individual states, and the individual states will decide where the Chargers will be located....and which vendor will make the hardware/software? It could result in a hodge podge of chargers across the county - which is fine if they just work better than Electrify America)
During that long charging session, the Lighting had to deal with heat buildup which requires slowing down the rate which increased the time spent. I’m curious how fast it could charge from 80% to 90% or 100% staring with a cold battery or a preconditioned battery instead of charging from a deep state of discharge.
I have seen the oscillating power behavior on my EV6. It seems to be charger dependent at least with my car. Some chargers produce a super smooth charging curve while others produce this high frequency power variance behavior. If you run an ODB2 dongle and CarScanner you will have a very clear idea of the charging curve and it’ll be way less work than trying to watch a video of an EA screen.
Tom Great videos on your Lighting and other electric vehicles. Question: Would you have any ideas why my new extended range Lighting Platinum only charges to the mid 200 mile range at 100% charge? My Mach E at 100% is equal too or has more milage than the Lighting.
That, as I'm sure you know, is an estimate of the vehicle's range, based on your previous driving habits. If you've been heavy on the right foot, the estimated range will go down. One thing I'd advise is resetting the trip after fully charging and looking at what your consumption rate is for 150-180 miles until you plug in next. You should be getting a little more than 2.0 mi/kWh in average driving. If you are, you should be able to drive 260-290 miles on a charge. D you know what you're consumption rate has been recently?
I had the worst experience the week of Sept 20th. drove my Lightning standard range from Corrales, NM to Los Angels. First stop was in Gallop, NM 4 stations and 8 plugs. Only one car was finishing up and left. I plugged into all four bays and nothing. Went on the phone to EA and worked with them for 90 minutes. They kept resetting the units and I had to note the time posted to assure they they were reset. We tried all the different ways of paying, EA app, Ford Pass, Touch Credit Card, Swipe Credit Card and apple pay....Nothing worked. I continued doing this with another Mach E and a Rivian owner.....Took 3 hours and finally one worked and I called the Mach E to charge and then the Rivian was able to charge...Next charger was in Winslow, AZ...Max charge from any of the 4 stations was 39 Kw. It took another 90 minutes. Next stop was Flagstaff, AZ. Another nightmare at midnight, 4 posts and 8 plugs. First station was blocked "ICED" by a 4 door Ram dooley but was also blank screen. Second one was out of order. Third one was loading for 10 minutes and never recovered by the time I left. Fourth one was a Chadamo sharing a CCS which actually worked. WOW. Really miss driving my Tesla but I had to get the truck home where its going to stay to charge.....If your interested I shot photos of the interior of chargers that they were working on in Quartzite, AZ. Another screwed up charge experience the next day. Later on I was able to ramp up to 113kW in the first minute at 34% SOC when I plugged into a good updated charger in CA.
I wonder if the higher initial draws the car using some kind of battery heating I wonder what the car actually registered as far as how much power it took into its battery versus how much power the charger actually put out. Would also be handy to know things like the temperature on the day when you were charging.
Isn't there also a battery chemistry issue at play that slows down the charging above 80%? I've been led to believe it's like the electrons are playing a game of musical chairs in the battery as the power fills and gets closer to 100% the number of chairs for the electrons to choose decreases so there is more charging loss.
Thanks for the upload! Have you done a video on charging at home on Level 2? I know you said it charges overnight no problem, but I'm curious about charge time in my driveway. I currently drive a 2017 Volt, sometimes I will come home from work and plug in to get a few extra kms before I go out to get groceries or something and its about 20kms per hour of charging, not great but enough to get to the store and back. (My 2023 Lightning build date is Oct 26, very excited!)
Great video, but quick question: Is there a downside to unplugging the charger after the max boost period and then plugging it in again for another boost window?
Just got notified to build my lightning Platinum, but I have a reservation for the Denali EV. Since you’ve had a lightning, should I get it or wait for the Denali?
I would really really like to get an EV. But I just cannot justify the cost. I also do not see ANYONE talking about true cost. Specifically, 1: Vehicle Cost premium vs same/extremely similar gas model; 2: Cost to purchase/add home charging equipment; 3: Cost in time. What is YOUR time worth? If you are employed, a rule of thumb you might use is your hourly rate at work (since you sell your time for that) how much time do you spend finding/waiting for/stuck at charging stations? vs gas? 4: Emergencies. You have a family member get hurt on the other side of town/state. You need to run to the hospital, but -- oh NO! I dont have enough charge! See item 3. How much is your time worth now? I WANT to get an EV. I really really do. But the technology and infrastructure are just not there yet. We ARE getting there. I'm an old dude with some health issues. I hope to see us get there in my lifetime. So many estimates run into the DECADES for the infrastructure to get to equity between Gas/Electric that I don't expect to see it (but I hope I'm wrong) EVs are great. But for now, they are not a viable option for the overwhelmingly vast majority of the population.
Do you hear the cooling running on the battery as you charge, the heating could be the problem with the speed you charge at. If you can set the battery to cool while charging then set it to cool because batteries heat up more when charging than when discharging. There is more energy going in than you get out of each charge, reason is entropy! So, in terms of physics you know right there that the flow is larger when charging then discharging. Also, in terms of chemistry, you are putting in more energy in at a shorter time when charging compared to the discharge time. What I mean is that if you were to charge 132 KW in 2.2+ hours as you showed, and that results 270 mile range, you should have to drive 120+ miles/hour to discharge the energy at equal amount of time. So there you see the instantaneous flow is far far larger into the battery than out of the battery. So there is your heat, and the need to cool is much higher when charging than when discharging!
Yes, you absolutely hear the fans whirling away, especially after a couple minutes of charging, and it shuts off at the end when the charging slows down dramatically after 85%. You don't need to set anything, the vehicle automatically controls the cooling process, as is the case with most EVs.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I guess now we would need to find out who does better cooling while charging. Maybe packaging of the cooling system/battery and/or cooling capacity review would be good to look into. Maybe a modification to the radiator could help, i.e. larger with more air flow could help. Maybe a higher volume coolent pump could help also!
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Tom, please confirm whether your truck has the “Max Tow Pkg” (not to be confused w/“Tow Tech Pkg”). Max Tow includes extra cooling hardware for battery and motors, and likely impacts the charging curve. Potential Lightning owners want to know!
@@carsonassociates3263 Yes, MAX towing package. But I've seen Lightning without MAX towing and the charging times do not seem to be affected. I think some people are blowing that out of proportion. I think maybe in the middle of the summer with temperatures near 100F it may help, but not in normal charging conditions.
@@Andi_Doci Perhaps but so not worth the time and expense. You might cut off 3-4 minutes of charging to 80% - no more than that because the programmed charging curve would limit the power it takes in.
That’s so weird. I get between 160-168 for about 2-3 minutes whenever I use 350kw chargers. And my average has been about 130kw for at least 20 minutes. At least on 350kw chargers. The 150kw chargers I get an average of about 118 for 20 minutes. And max of about 135kw. That lasts for about a minute. 130-133 lasts for about 3-5 minutes though.
Tom, Question I have a quote from Thompson Electric here in Northeast Ohio. I explained what I wanted the install to provide - Charge our Ford 150 Standard Battery Lariat at home And power the house in the event we lose power. This is what they provided. Add (1) dedicated 50 AMP Circuit and 4 wire outlet at garage. Cost $750.00 Add (1) inlet and (1) interlock kit at load center. Cost $580.00 if done with above. Is this all I need? I already talked with my dealership and the cost of them to turn it on was $500.00. Is that it? What about a battery. Thompson stated that for my 200 amp box a 50 amp switch would suffice. I would appreciate any and all help that you could provide. Thanks John
Have you tried charging 5-15%, unplug, then plugging in again and trying 15%-25%, unplug, etc.. seems it will charge that fast for the first 10% regardless, one could probably shorten the total duration IF it would simply power boost at each new charging session?
There needs to be more affordable level 2- 19kw chargers say in shopping areas or restaurants so it will become more viable. There is way too much focus on dc fast charging
Question: How do we setup to Lightning stop charging at 80%? I've found the setting for One time stop charging at 80% but kind of annoying to change that setting with each charge. I assume somewhere we could set it to stop changing at 80% all times until setting changes. Thank for your help! Enjoy your videos!
Thank you for the video. It almost seems like the standard should be that max charge table for several minutes regardless of what percentage the battery is at. Do other ev's only do this starting at 0% or at a very low level?
I have an extended range F150 lightning. That's 320 miles. However on our trip to Tennessee if we charge to 80 % the range suddenly drops to around 184 miles presumed to be 80 % by the charger. What can I do to get my extended range battery charged to about 270 miles like it should.
I feel your garage/set needs more warm colors and be less bright white. It's hard to believe you've had your Lightning for 3 months already, seems like you just got it weeks ago. I really wish manufactures would stop using terms like standard range and extended range for the battery packs. Because anything less than 300 miles shouldn't be considered "standard" for range on any vehicle, that's just ridiculous.
Wow... $58.05 for dead to full on a DC charger? That's not much less than a full tank of gas would be. I want a Lightning pretty bad but that's a bit of an eye-opener there. (I know charging at home is more convenient and cheaper, I'm just surprised it's that expensive to charge on the road.)
It's actually much less. I didn't use the discounted rate plan that I have for this specific charging session. It actually costs me $42.16 to charge this same amount when I charge in public like that. But - the point is you don't need to charge in public like that more than 6-7 time per year, so it doesn't matter if you pay a little more. It costs me $19 - $20 to fully charge at home. I really don't care what I pay when I use the fast chargers. I'd be fine if it cost $100, because I only do it a few times a year. My fuel savings vs a gas F-150 driving 20K miles per year are in the thousands per year.
Excellent information for anyone considering an electric truck.Based on all the information you’ve given me,it shows me that an electric truck isn’t for me yet. I wanted to ask if you had heard anything about this,A friend told me that your battery warranty is directly affected by how much DC fast charging you do. DC fast charging shortens the life of the battery,Ford can see exactly how much you fast charge and pro rate your warranty time based on it. Is there any truth to this?
I checked, and federal law requires EVs to have a warranty of at least 100K miles or 8 years, whichever comes first, although manufacturers can have it be longer as a selling point. California goes even further, requiring a 10-year, 150,000-mile warranty on EV and hybrid batteries. It is true that ‘normal degradation’ will not trigger a warranty replacement, which has been a complaint with early Nissan Leaf model years.
I think this is probably one of the biggest downsides of the Lightning. It’s charging basically at 1C after that first 5 minute boost, or roughly the same as a Chevy Bolt. That’s too slow for 2022. That’s especially going to be a problem for towing. It should be charging at least 1.5C for the majority of the charging curve, or about 180kw. We talk about charging rate terms of kw, and we tend to focus (too much) on peak charging rate. This truck is exactly why we shouldn’t. It peaks at 160kw for a matter of minutes. 120kw doesn’t sound too bad, until you consider that it is like a 120kwh battery. There are much smaller batteries that can charge at a much higher peak rate and a much higher sustained average rate than this. Of course, if you charge at home as most EV owners do, it’s not a big deal. You’ll have to evaluate if a typical 32A/7kw charger will be enough to work with your commute given the inefficiency of this beast. But if you do road trips, as many truck owners do, especially when towing, this charges too slowly.
Hi Tom can you or any of your viewers tell me when plugged into a 30 amp 120 volt or a 20 amp 120 volt what the maximum current the lighting onboard charger will utilise?
That was the most comprehensive, extensively tested and thoroughly time-consuming rendering of what lightning owners will count as a repository of knowledge on how long they can expect to be charging and for what gain in miles these numbers bring. Absolutely astonishing. Thanks Tom‼️👍🏼
Thanks for reminding everyone that most people charge at home. Many articles, especially from mass media, talk about the need to build out public charging infrastructure before EVs can take off -implying that people will have to charge at public stations, like they do for fossil cars.
Unfortunately, folks who don't care for accurate information on EVs won't be watching videos like these and only seek echo chamber videos that give them their confirmation bias.
As an ev owner, I believe the dc fast charger network must be built out more before mass adoption. It doesn’t matter if you charge at home most of the time, you still need convenient fast charging when you are not. Also many people live in apartments or house rentals without the ability to have level 2 charging at home.
@@grahamballard7364 Yes, more public chargers needed before "mass" adoption of EVs, but that's 10 years from now. There are many millions of drivers now considering EVs for which home charging and the existing fast charging network would work very well, including EVs as second local-driving cars. I've had my EV for 2.5 years, and have never used a public charger.
@@Chris21709 Agreed. My EV (a 2015 Leaf w/about 70miles of total range remaining) is a 2nd/3rd vehicle used for local driving only and does great in that role with no need for public charging. It's no road tripper, but it doesn't need to be.
Still need a lot more charging infrastructure. Especially if EV is your only mode of transport. I'm sure as the ban of ICE only vehicles comes into play in the next 10 years, we will be much better off, but until then it can still be a bit rough. More so if you're not on the freeway.
A large portion of this is just simply having level 2 chargers at as many hotels, parking lots/ramps, parks, etc., as we can. Which is much more financially feasible for places like this. Retailers and restaurants would only need lower powered DCFC stations like 50kW as most people are there for longer than 150+ kW can charge up in. Well, unless you have a Hummer, lol.
A lot of us travel for work and need more options. That's the cost of being an early adopter I guess.
I really like and appreciate the different charging times at different states of charge. Closer to what Bjorn does with his 1000km runs. It’s a change of thought from filling your tank with an ICE vehicle to what do I need between bladder breaks and/ or destination with an electric vehicle.
Still the best web site for charging information. 👍
That initial high rate of charge seems to be a good thing for those who need a quick charge to add a few miles. I could see doing this on the last leg of a trip or a quick trip across town if you’re in a hurry. It’s comparable to putting $10-$20 worth of gas in a car on the way to work.
Appreciate the amount of time and effort you put into this!
Thanks for sharing this. Very neat approach to charging. They don't really go much further than 1.2C .. ever.
Ford really needs to put 800V batteries in these. The battery size is nutty on these.
2025
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Prediction or do you have a source for that date?
@@daftrok Ford has told me their next generation electric trucks coming in 2025 will be much improved with a new battery architecture.
I appreciate your details on charging and you mentioned condo and apartment dwellers not having a likely option for charging. I'm hoping you could find a landlord who'd like to try using an Orange charging system, either 16 amp 120 volt option or a 16 amp 240 using NEMA 6-20 plug. Seeing the process from planning to installation along with charge monitoring for billing would be great for landlords and tenants to see.
16A 120V would be 1.92 kW max. That's really slow and comes with high relative losses. If people tackle installing EVSEs they should aim for 240V 16A minimum, or even better for 240V 48A and load management. Otherwise, charging experience will just be too bad, especially with these large pick-up trucks like F-150 Lightning.
@@koeniglicher I understand that issue but a landlord for multi unit apartments likely would not want to spend the large amount of money to install heavy gauge wire and/or have the capacity to install such an EVSE for their property. Most people don't drive 200 miles/day and a simple 120 volt or 16 amp level 2 charger will make an EV viable for them with charging taking place at their dwelling where a car often sits for long periods of time.
@@jdlutz1965 Well, a landlord of a multi unit appartment competes with other landlords of other multi unit appartments around him. Cost of installation is wasted, if tenants consider the solution inadequate, uncomfortable, underpowered as it will need to be upgraded again. Like an A/C system that was installed and was cheap but in effect turns out to be simply too weak for the actual tenants needs.
At some point in time, installation cost as one-time cost of charging infrastructure in multi-tenant garages are needed and can be passed on to tenants with the rent or parking fee. What you call "Orange charging system" is not even a charging system: it is a smart generic power outlet, not an EVSE. You have to bring your own EVSE (like an in-cable control box, ICCB = mobile charger = granny cable) to be able to charge there and to provide the necessary SAE connector.
I consider the Orange smart outlets with integrated metering an interesting solution. It is always good to have options as a landlord and multiple solutions to choose from as a landlord or tenant. But people should understand the power limitations of such solutions and then choose wisely for their long-term demand.
A basic principle of Tom Moloughney's videos for home charging is: plug it in in the evening, it will be fully charged at the next morning. That is, what he repeats over and over and where he wants to build up trust in home charging. If you plug a F-150 Lightning in at 8pm and need to use it at 8am, it can use 12 hours of charging. But a 1.92 kW solution and some losses will only provide about 20 kWh of total energy to the battery pack during this period. That is about 60 kilometers / roughly 40 miles in this BEV truck. Or 2x30 km, or 2x20 miles. If that's ok for people, well, then they should go for it. My prejudice is => a large portion of BEV-owning tenants will ask the landlord to upgrade the garage charging to some reasonable power anyways. But I may be wrong.
For multi-tenant houses, the feature of load management is the essential ingredient to make many tenants happy from my point of view. The Orange smart outlets can not support load management (splitting a power sum dynamically to many EVs) as there is no communication between the vehicle AC charger and the Orange outlet. With proper EVSEs you can realize load management. It may be some extra bucks in installation cost, but it provides good charging experience to the tenants from a low power uplink of the building itself. With proper EVSEs and some control logic you can also realize charging from solar-equipped roofs during sun-shine periods (a major opportunity for landlords!). Orange outlets will not support this due to lack of communication to the EV.
@@koeniglicher yes, I agree, different options are good and I don't dismiss 40+ amp charging equipment but the simplicity and ability to monitor/bill tenants is a major benefit over any level 2 charger that would likely not have billing option available. The fact that they are smart outlets also prevents common vandalism and negligence from destroying cords and such, another issue avoided if tenants use their own charging EVSE and with NEMA 6-20 outlet providing 3.8 kw, not so slow either.
@@jdlutz1965 I agree with you. Proper authentication, as well as metering and billing are essential for every semi-public multi-tenant garage be it on smart outlets or EVSEs. Regarding cables: here in Europe we have standard EVSE with Type2 plugs with no cables. People have to bring their own Type2 cables. Such Type 2 EVSE are widespread here, but inconvenient to use as you have to unroll your own cable every time and to stow it away the cable after that in your car. It has proven to be a hinderance in overall EV adoption. So, a proper convenient EVSE for home charging should have the cable attached and a simple cable management solution. Almost all *home* chargers now include fixed cables here now just like in the US.
NEMA 6-20 outlets with 3.8 kW are a better choice power-wise, I agree. The problem that arises with them: the *static* split of the power uplink of a building (lets say 20 or 40 kW) to outlets of 3.8 kW allows only 5 to 10 such outlets in a garage with let's say 20 parking spaces. This way, the first 5-10 parking spaces can get 3.8 kW static, but how to power the rest of 10-15 parking spaces? At the same time, the static 3.8 kW per outlet are not even used most of the time.
For this reason, such environments will need load management capabilities of the EVSE anyways. You could be clever and install one 3.8 kW Orange outlet for every two parking spaces, but then tenants will have to arrange for sharing the smart outlet and splitting the bill (does Orange take care of that in their system?). Still a hassle. The better way is: one EVSE per parking space, and a load management capability to send power where power is actually currently needed (an automated time sharing approach). And at the same time: never to exceed the power uplinks capabilities, which is handled by the load management as well. *Dynamic* load management solutions will even adapt at night, when people do not use most of their electric appliances in their kitchens or washing machines/dryers and make that power available to EV charging.
Excellent testing and information that we potential EV owners can use to set expectations on how this EV will meet our needs. Thank-you!
Holy cow that must have been a lot of work to put all together, great job!
Great video. Thanks for starting with the home charging caveat.
Thank you for the SUPER thorough evaluation. The Ford charge station is really about V2G support, I think. A dedicated 100amp circuit is extreme …
Yes, especially considering that the truck can’t output 80 amps to a building at present.
Very good video. TONS of useful data for road trips. (I have both a Rivian R1T & a F-150 Lightning on reserve/order, and should get one of them somewhat soon (I'm hoping before the end of the year) and since you do have both, and have done all this testing, Super useful man! appreciate all the work! also, after listening to you, got a electritian who specializes on EV and home charging equipment to come and re wire the level 2 charger I have on my garage (I got a couple of plug in hybrids right now, a Wrangler 4xe and a mini-van.
Great video showing the differences of charge times at various percentages demonstrating that the time it takes to charge is less at a higher percentage for any EV.
I am fortunate that my Landlord allowed me to install a 14-50 outlet to plug in a charging station, so I can charge at home.
Being able to detach the station and carry it with me allowed for charging at RV parks.
Nice job gathering this data Tom. It would sure be nice if Ford would ever get a update out to improve the curve.
Appreciate the work you're doing for the industry. Keep up the good work.
One thing to keep in mind when considering max power. There is power lost from the EVSE into the RESS. I would bet that at the RESS it received 155kW when the EVSE was reporting 160kW.
Looking forward to all the new EVs coming next year!
Cheers
Seems like most people will only need to have an electrician install a dryer style outlet in order to charge at home with the manufacturer included charger. That’s seems more than sufficient to replenish the power consumed for an average day’s driving. Fast charging seems to be needed for long trips or for those who live in apartments without access to a 240v outlet.
Very informative. Thanks for the video. I was looking forward to it. Will you also cover the Rivian charging curve as well and compare them both?
Yes, absolutely
Great video Tom 👏 & the garage looks great! It’s come along way since the Mini E days
Tom, I want to relate my experience at an EA charging station in DuBois, PA . I've been to this station 3 times now and it's been fully operational each time. I've gotten great charging experiences on each visit. Today I paid attention to how long I stayed at peak charging as a result of watching this video. I started at 20% state of charge and charged at 161kw for 14 minutes. That took me to 50%. I dropped to around 110kw until I hit 70% and then dropped to about 80kw as it approached 80%. Total charge time was 39 minutes. The last time I was there about a week ago I was charging at 166kw at 10 minutes but had to run in to Walmart because my old bladder couldn't wait any longer but I suspect it was the same story. These are Signet chargers with build dates of 2020. I've been using my free Ford charge credits and Plug & Charge and it's worked each time. I plug in, the station recognized my truck and that I have credits and starts charging. I've not had to do anything to start the session. Thanks for another great, informative video.
I'm anxious for your review of the Charge Station Pro. I'm on the fence about installing it because I've seen lots of post about problems people are having with them.
Well done Tom 🎉 thank you for providing this valuable information! Will you repeat this test with the Rivian R1T and if yes please share! Keep up the great work!
Finally some EV nerd talk. Thank’s Tom.
Hey Tom. I have the same Lightning (Lightning x-battery) and I’m getting about the same on my Electrify America charges.
BTW, finally got the Intelligent Home Backup System working a couple of weeks ago. Works great!!!
Nice job Tom and thanks for your work.
Thank you!
excellent testing and analysis!
I have never felt better about the 20+ miles per minute I regularly see when plugging my Lucid Air GT in on a road trip. Don't get me wrong. I love the F-150 Lightning. I have one on order, but it will not be my long distance cruiser. Ford's quick 160+kW boost charge is ideal when you need to grab "just a bit more" to get home.
The slowing of the charge at or above 80% could be the act of "balancing" all the cells. Very common with lipo batteries. Having cells in balance will help battery life and performance! Great video, you are good my friend!
Excellent video/information on Lightning charging. It would nice to understand similar info on a 240 V standard home charging (miles added per min of charging.)
Awesome, well done! Thanks! Fascinating it keeps the power boost... maybe the battery temps are not driven high enough by driving, it can always accept a certain amount of charge before it gets too hot, and thermally limits the power?
Really loving this channel sir. Happy to see you growing !
The more I watch your videos, the more I'm impressed with EV's
Tom, Thanks for another quality thoughtful video. Was wondering when we will see your FCSP install but I know you are waiting for your service upgrade. I too had to update service and I charge exclusively at home. Still having issues with overheating and wondering if it is the charger or how it was installed. I lowered the amperage from 80 to 60 (via the charge station applet in Ford Pass) and get about 32 miles per hour of charge and it does not overheat. (Yes I have 3.5.1 Ford Pass) I don’t do the fancy recordings and charting like you do. A little hard to do since the Ford Pass app is a little laggy IMO. I am going to reach out to QMerit for the Home integration install and ask them to take a look at the FCSP as I am sure they need to do anyway.
Great analysis as always Tom! This power boost raises the question: Can you do this multiple times, unplug, and then do it again? Obviously that's not particularly convenient, but for sale of completeness, that might be an interesting test.
I’m new to this EV revolution. While I am old enough to remember the GM’s EV1, that was on the west coast, no where near me on the gulf coast.
What causes the charging rate? Is it in the batteries or the onboard charger or the charging station?
Where I live, I know we have some Tesla charging places but not enough.
Your videos are very informative, and I’m learning a lot. Thanks!
Very interesting. A video idea for you, compare charging of identical trucks, one with Max Tow, and one without the extra cooling.
It would be pretty boring. Probably the same results. Too much is being made over Max towing package while charging. I've seen both and didn't notice any difference. Perhaps in the dead of summer when temps are above 90F and you've been running hot for a while. But under normal conditions, I don't think owners will be able to tell the difference.
Really good video. In my experience and research Li ion batteries work better when discharged down to 20% and charged up to 80%. The more you discharge the battery past 20% and charge back up over 80% percent you degrade the battery little by little. I really don’t like how range tests are done going past 0%. To me this makes inexperienced people think they could squeeze out every last drop of power. The range tests to me should only be done from 100% to the point the vehicle hits 0%. The capacity of the battery will degrade over the years and we don’t know how much buffer is under that 0% is left.
Hi Tom, you may need to install some sound attenuation in your garage. There is a lot of echo. Maybe à carpe you can unroll when you are recording. And sound baffle on the wall. Keep the good job your video are reveling and consistent with all brand.
I already have the materials, I just need the time to install it
28:19 I would love charts like this for charging and consumption while towing! If you could break it down to 3000 pound boat, 6000 pound camper and/or extended range vs standard range would be awesome too. I have a 3000 - 4000 pound boat to tow and want an electric vehicle again. The F150 lightning has been all over the charts with towing.
Im curious what would happen if you plugged and unplugged and replugged each time the rate went below 130?. Would it keep giving you the boost up to 160? Would it spped up overall charge - probably not great for battery but curious.
I believe it would go into Max Charge rate again. But Ford has this programmed not to damage the battery and I believe if you did that frequently you'd probably degrade the cells. Also, it would probably take longer to charge because of the time lost stopping the session, unplugging, waiting for the station to reset, plugging in again and starting the new session. My bet is it would take longer, actually
An interesting idea for a video would be to compare the costs of having a level 2 EVSE installed and how long it would take to recoup your cost vs just fast charging, I know there are a lot of factor’s just a thought
My guess is that a home charging station will pay for itself rather quickly with average cost per kWh being about 1/2 or more cheaper (off peak EV rates often available) and now the IRA passed recently along with utility incentives often make installation free or close to it.
3k miles on my lightning total cost of energy is $0. I charge at my dealer or a free dc 50kw fast charger.
Omg did you see the rate per KWH? 43 cents per kWh? Charge up was over $60.
If gas was $2 (and it was a couple of years ago), that would get you 30 gallons of gas. If you could get 15 Hwy miles per gallon… 450 miles? Versus 270 miles per charge? Yikes!!! Fortunately charging at home is much cheaper. (I always charged my EV at a local dealership that had free charging too…)
Just amazing work Tom. Thanks. Any updates to the F-150 charging curve in the last year? Has Ford improved the 80% to 90%?
Good review. It would be good for you state the ambient temperatures for these tests. That makes a difference how much actual range you get.
Great video. Just wanted to say that Romex is made up of THHN wire. They are both rated to 600v. Typically THHN is pulled through conduit to make up circuits. Romex is a brand name group of THHN wire. Good to call out hiring an electrician, these EV chargers are going well beyond simple 20amp circuits. Each city follows different codes - so ask 20 people and you’ll get 20 opinions - possibly all of them correct depending upon where you live. Good detailed video - thanks!
ROMEX is TW and is rated at 60 deg C, THHN is rated at 90 deg C and has a clear TPFE sheath over the thermoplastic insulstion. It is stranded, ROMEX is always solid and is inferior. The NEC is the National Electric Code and is the minimum that is required, local codes may be tougher than the NEC which is updated every 3 years by the NFPA. I do agree that a license journeyman should do the work.
--IBEW Electrician, 41 years.
Thanks for producing this. Hopefully the Chevrolet Silverado charge curve is better, because this is ridiculous. I wanted a Lightning initially, but the more real-world information that becomes available, the less appealing it is. Ford can do better.
Have you had a chance to charge during high ambient temperature days? My experience in SoCal and AZ during 100 degree days was not encouraging. First charge was fine, but it added heat to the battery that didn't fully dissipate by the second charge. Second charge wasn't as good, third charge abysmal. Then I added a 3000lb trailer heading North on I-5. Slightly cooler temps helped tremendously. Ford definitely has room for improvement to cover these cases, but love the truck otherwise!
Please do all of the same tests for other vehicles (e.g., 2023 Ioniq 5 :)
Great analysis!
As someone not interested in pickup trucks (pulling a large parachute behind an occupancy box, nearly
always empty other than groceries now and then), my takeaway in your excellent video is that EVs are, as they have always been, in a state of flux. The hardware and tech are evolving and improving.
Having said that, my wife and I drive only EVs (me a Model 3 SR+, my wife a VW ID. PRO). We’ve not been afraid, inhibited, or restricted when it comes to travel, near or far. Summer or winter, in town or across the USA, we (including our two teenage boys) jump in our EV and go, man, go.
Thanks for the excellent information you put out, Tom. It is needed to counter the silly and baseless FUD that surround EVs.
EVs are the life for me!
When you say “fully charged” at home, do you mean 100% every night. Great vid as usual. Waiting for your wintertime testing so can plan for mylonger drives 😎
Yes, if you want to - depends on how much range you need. I prefer to charge to a lower SOC, but the Lightning doesn't allow you to set a lower SOC target for AC charging, only DC fast charging.
I like the summary due to my Executive job rank
Tom,
John again. I was trying to say $500.00 for an activation fee from my dealership. Thanks
Great video but I think you can shorten these down quite a bit. Lots of repeating and non-essential commentary (e.g., a lot from 16-22). Maybe you're stretching to make them 30+ mins, but if not, a lot can be cut out in post to shorten the overall time. Hopefully you don't mind a little feedback!
I love the feedback. I know I repeat myself and go slowly sometimes - I actually do that on purpose. The vast majority of my followers are new to electric vehicles and appreciate me going slowly and methodically explaining these things. Did you know you can speed up the video? I know some of my regular followers do that. You tap the cog icon on the bottom right side of the video and then set the playback speed to 1.25. You'll get everything but in 25% less time.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Thanks, yes, I watch at 1.5 or 1.75. You're the creator so you know best, but I figured you might get more views at 10-15mins vs. 30+. (I have no idea but I would guess that it's true.)
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I always watch at 1.25, both here and @insideevs weekly podcast. When I hear you at regular speed, it sounds so slow! 😊
So.... Can I take your info to infer the following? If I was on a road trip doing the 20%-80% charge cycles I would go between 160miles (70mph range) and 192miles (EPA) and then have to stop for 34 minutes to charge from 20-80% again. Meaning I would drive for 2h15m to 2h40m and stop for 34 minutes.
Yes
Tom, this was so well done! Thank you. So with an 80% charge you get about another 200 miles?
Fantastic info. Thank you.
The odd charging curve can only be the result of Ford limiting the peak charge rate far below what the cells are actually capable of. Since the pack size is so large the 170kW peak is only a 1.3 C rate for a 130kWh pack. Contrast that with the 3 C rate of the Model 3 80kWh pack at 250kW.
Ford Station Pro , look on page 17, you have 9 amp settings, I have mine sect at 50 amps on a 60 amp breaker.
Robert
Ford Lighting standard range wall outlet charge time: 20%sun 7:48pm to 100% Thursday 4:05pm. 92 hour relative estimate. Supposedly 1 to 2 miles per hour. Upgrading to a 220v outlet, supposedly jumps to 19 miles per hour. Hopefully it drops to under 5 hours, if that's true
It would be nicer if a vehicle this large charged faster to make road trips more bearable, more so if you need to tow anything. If it could maintain close to 200kW to 50-60% that would be ideal. Would keep it at a ~20 min session. You can argue it's not what this truck is for, but it's inconvenient to have to use another vehicle for another purpose. Especially when vehicles are so expensive.
I really liked my 2018 F150. It could do everything living here in the upper midwest. From Menards runs, to being able to drive in deep snow, to comfortable road trips. Traded it in for a Model 3, which has been an excellent car so far, but I do kinda miss the truck.
I’m halfway through this video and maybe you cover it later. I understand the idea of charging to 80% when on the highway on a trip to shorten charge time per mile added. It makes sense based on the charge curves. Here’s my question. Am I better off setting the charge goal to 90 or 100% and stopping early at 80, or can I just set it for 80% and have it stop automatically? If you set to 80% does the charge curve adjust to come in for a landing so to speak by slowing down starting at 60 or 70%?
It will charge the same way regardless of what end point you have it set to. So just set it to where you want it to stop
very informative. thanks
Love the video! How are you collecting this data ? To my knowledge people are saying the lightning doesn’t display the data like this, so I am assuming you collect it another way. Thanks!
Getting my SR pro model in 1.5 months so trying to prepare and I would also like to collect data of my own, so I know exactly what to expect with my personal lightning
I worry about the integrity of the charge port with the heavy CCS charge plug and cable. Also many of the Walmart EA chargers are so awkward to pull into and on some I have to go the wrong way down the aisle to back into the charger. Very poor planning. Lightning is a large beast. One more thing is there are 2 easy ways to get the SOC to show up on the center screen and the driver screen. Hit the edit button which is the center of the 7 buttons on the bottom, if it says edit or something else it will become the edit button. When pressed you can designate it as the charge settings button and be able to see SOC when pressed. Also using the menu button on the steering wheel you can make the driver display be a "calm" screen and SOC will show there along with range and speedo.
Yes, I do know how to see the SOC on both screens. I'm just not satisfied with how it's currently displayed. I'd like to have it on the driver's display under the estimated range. It would be very easy for Ford to add it.
A lot of people can’t charge at home. They live in a condo, town home, apartment, or rent their home, or don’t have a garage. Also many homes don’t have a garage.
Correct, and I do mention that in the video
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I encourage my employees to consider an EV, but most don't have any possibility of charging at home. 2 employees do own used Prius' and one recently bought a new Hyundai Hybrid. I think that will be the plan for many for the next 3-5 years. They will need a national charging network, like our current chain of gas stations, in order to make the leap to an EV. (Of course if someone can charge at home, it is a totally different decision process...)
@@Team_Trade_Down Yes, that ability to charge at home (or work) makes EV life easy. Public charging is improving dramatically and hopefully the Inflation Reduction Act funds will jumpstart a comprehensive national network of charging stations.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Gabe Klein....we are counting on you! (But isn't the plan to disburse the money to individual states, and the individual states will decide where the Chargers will be located....and which vendor will make the hardware/software? It could result in a hodge podge of chargers across the county - which is fine if they just work better than Electrify America)
During that long charging session, the Lighting had to deal with heat buildup which requires slowing down the rate which increased the time spent. I’m curious how fast it could charge from 80% to 90% or 100% staring with a cold battery or a preconditioned battery instead of charging from a deep state of discharge.
I'll be testing that over time
I have seen the oscillating power behavior on my EV6. It seems to be charger dependent at least with my car. Some chargers produce a super smooth charging curve while others produce this high frequency power variance behavior. If you run an ODB2 dongle and CarScanner you will have a very clear idea of the charging curve and it’ll be way less work than trying to watch a video of an EA screen.
Tom
Great videos on your Lighting and other electric vehicles.
Question: Would you have any ideas why my new extended range Lighting Platinum only charges to the mid 200 mile range at 100% charge?
My Mach E at 100% is equal too or has more milage than the Lighting.
That, as I'm sure you know, is an estimate of the vehicle's range, based on your previous driving habits. If you've been heavy on the right foot, the estimated range will go down. One thing I'd advise is resetting the trip after fully charging and looking at what your consumption rate is for 150-180 miles until you plug in next. You should be getting a little more than 2.0 mi/kWh in average driving. If you are, you should be able to drive 260-290 miles on a charge. D you know what you're consumption rate has been recently?
Hey Tom, has there been any software updates/improvements to the Lightning extended range since you made this video?
I had the worst experience the week of Sept 20th. drove my Lightning standard range from Corrales, NM to Los Angels. First stop was in Gallop, NM 4 stations and 8 plugs. Only one car was finishing up and left. I plugged into all four bays and nothing. Went on the phone to EA and worked with them for 90 minutes. They kept resetting the units and I had to note the time posted to assure they they were reset. We tried all the different ways of paying, EA app, Ford Pass, Touch Credit Card, Swipe Credit Card and apple pay....Nothing worked. I continued doing this with another Mach E and a Rivian owner.....Took 3 hours and finally one worked and I called the Mach E to charge and then the Rivian was able to charge...Next charger was in Winslow, AZ...Max charge from any of the 4 stations was 39 Kw. It took another 90 minutes. Next stop was Flagstaff, AZ. Another nightmare at midnight, 4 posts and 8 plugs. First station was blocked "ICED" by a 4 door Ram dooley but was also blank screen. Second one was out of order. Third one was loading for 10 minutes and never recovered by the time I left. Fourth one was a Chadamo sharing a CCS which actually worked. WOW. Really miss driving my Tesla but I had to get the truck home where its going to stay to charge.....If your interested I shot photos of the interior of chargers that they were working on in Quartzite, AZ. Another screwed up charge experience the next day. Later on I was able to ramp up to 113kW in the first minute at 34% SOC when I plugged into a good updated charger in CA.
I wonder if the higher initial draws the car using some kind of battery heating I wonder what the car actually registered as far as how much power it took into its battery versus how much power the charger actually put out. Would also be handy to know things like the temperature on the day when you were charging.
Isn't there also a battery chemistry issue at play that slows down the charging above 80%? I've been led to believe it's like the electrons are playing a game of musical chairs in the battery as the power fills and gets closer to 100% the number of chairs for the electrons to choose decreases so there is more charging loss.
very cool data
Thanks for the upload! Have you done a video on charging at home on Level 2? I know you said it charges overnight no problem, but I'm curious about charge time in my driveway. I currently drive a 2017 Volt, sometimes I will come home from work and plug in to get a few extra kms before I go out to get groceries or something and its about 20kms per hour of charging, not great but enough to get to the store and back. (My 2023 Lightning build date is Oct 26, very excited!)
Coming soon!
Do you think the initial charging is being used to heat the individual cells up to an optimum charging temperature?
Great video, but quick question: Is there a downside to unplugging the charger after the max boost period and then plugging it in again for another boost window?
Just got notified to build my lightning Platinum, but I have a reservation for the Denali EV. Since you’ve had a lightning, should I get it or wait for the Denali?
Like to see how the Charge Station Pro was installed.
I would really really like to get an EV. But I just cannot justify the cost. I also do not see ANYONE talking about true cost. Specifically,
1: Vehicle Cost premium vs same/extremely similar gas model;
2: Cost to purchase/add home charging equipment;
3: Cost in time.
What is YOUR time worth? If you are employed, a rule of thumb you might use is your hourly rate at work (since you sell your time for that) how much time do you spend finding/waiting for/stuck at charging stations? vs gas?
4: Emergencies. You have a family member get hurt on the other side of town/state. You need to run to the hospital, but -- oh NO! I dont have enough charge! See item 3. How much is your time worth now?
I WANT to get an EV. I really really do. But the technology and infrastructure are just not there yet. We ARE getting there. I'm an old dude with some health issues. I hope to see us get there in my lifetime. So many estimates run into the DECADES for the infrastructure to get to equity between Gas/Electric that I don't expect to see it (but I hope I'm wrong)
EVs are great. But for now, they are not a viable option for the overwhelmingly vast majority of the population.
Do you hear the cooling running on the battery as you charge, the heating could be the problem with the speed you charge at. If you can set the battery to cool while charging then set it to cool because batteries heat up more when charging than when discharging. There is more energy going in than you get out of each charge, reason is entropy! So, in terms of physics you know right there that the flow is larger when charging then discharging. Also, in terms of chemistry, you are putting in more energy in at a shorter time when charging compared to the discharge time. What I mean is that if you were to charge 132 KW in 2.2+ hours as you showed, and that results 270 mile range, you should have to drive 120+ miles/hour to discharge the energy at equal amount of time. So there you see the instantaneous flow is far far larger into the battery than out of the battery. So there is your heat, and the need to cool is much higher when charging than when discharging!
Yes, you absolutely hear the fans whirling away, especially after a couple minutes of charging, and it shuts off at the end when the charging slows down dramatically after 85%. You don't need to set anything, the vehicle automatically controls the cooling process, as is the case with most EVs.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I guess now we would need to find out who does better cooling while charging. Maybe packaging of the cooling system/battery and/or cooling capacity review would be good to look into. Maybe a modification to the radiator could help, i.e. larger with more air flow could help. Maybe a higher volume coolent pump could help also!
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Tom, please confirm whether your truck has the “Max Tow Pkg” (not to be confused w/“Tow Tech Pkg”). Max Tow includes extra cooling hardware for battery and motors, and likely impacts the charging curve. Potential Lightning owners want to know!
@@carsonassociates3263 Yes, MAX towing package. But I've seen Lightning without MAX towing and the charging times do not seem to be affected. I think some people are blowing that out of proportion. I think maybe in the middle of the summer with temperatures near 100F it may help, but not in normal charging conditions.
@@Andi_Doci Perhaps but so not worth the time and expense. You might cut off 3-4 minutes of charging to 80% - no more than that because the programmed charging curve would limit the power it takes in.
Does Ford monitor the condition of the battery, or do they just charge away? What about charging after heavy use?
No Ford doesn't monitor your battery. They engineered the battery/cooling systems so they don't have to and the owners don't need to worry about it.
If only we had more than 50kw chargers here in canada
That’s so weird. I get between 160-168 for about 2-3 minutes whenever I use 350kw chargers. And my average has been about 130kw for at least 20 minutes. At least on 350kw chargers. The 150kw chargers I get an average of about 118 for 20 minutes. And max of about 135kw. That lasts for about a minute. 130-133 lasts for about 3-5 minutes though.
Tom,
Question I have a quote from Thompson Electric here in Northeast Ohio. I explained what I wanted the install to provide - Charge our Ford 150 Standard Battery Lariat at home And power the house in the event we lose power. This is what they provided.
Add (1) dedicated 50 AMP Circuit and 4 wire outlet at garage. Cost $750.00
Add (1) inlet and (1) interlock kit at load center. Cost $580.00 if done with above.
Is this all I need? I already talked with my dealership and the cost of them to turn it on was $500.00.
Is that it? What about a battery. Thompson stated that for my 200 amp box a 50 amp switch would suffice.
I would appreciate any and all help that you could provide.
Thanks John
Have you tried charging 5-15%, unplug, then plugging in again and trying 15%-25%, unplug, etc.. seems it will charge that fast for the first 10% regardless, one could probably shorten the total duration IF it would simply power boost at each new charging session?
There needs to be more affordable level 2- 19kw chargers say in shopping areas or restaurants so it will become more viable. There is way too much focus on dc fast charging
Question: How do we setup to Lightning stop charging at 80%? I've found the setting for One time stop charging at 80% but kind of annoying to change that setting with each charge. I assume somewhere we could set it to stop changing at 80% all times until setting changes. Thank for your help! Enjoy your videos!
Can you do this same type of charging for a Tesla Y?
I did one for the Model 3 a little over a year ago. The Model Y would be the same. ua-cam.com/video/zwDI7moHvzg/v-deo.html
Thank you for the video. It almost seems like the standard should be that max charge table for several minutes regardless of what percentage the battery is at. Do other ev's only do this starting at 0% or at a very low level?
where is the standard range link? hate it when they say its in the description then it isnt.
I have an extended range F150 lightning. That's 320 miles. However on our trip to Tennessee if we charge to 80 % the range suddenly drops to around 184 miles presumed to be 80 % by the charger. What can I do to get my extended range battery charged to about 270 miles like it should.
I feel your garage/set needs more warm colors and be less bright white. It's hard to believe you've had your Lightning for 3 months already, seems like you just got it weeks ago. I really wish manufactures would stop using terms like standard range and extended range for the battery packs. Because anything less than 300 miles shouldn't be considered "standard" for range on any vehicle, that's just ridiculous.
Did Ford ever update the charging curve on this truck?
Great video!! Has solid state batteries been proven? If so, will they replace all lithium batteries?
Wow... $58.05 for dead to full on a DC charger? That's not much less than a full tank of gas would be. I want a Lightning pretty bad but that's a bit of an eye-opener there. (I know charging at home is more convenient and cheaper, I'm just surprised it's that expensive to charge on the road.)
It's actually much less. I didn't use the discounted rate plan that I have for this specific charging session. It actually costs me $42.16 to charge this same amount when I charge in public like that. But - the point is you don't need to charge in public like that more than 6-7 time per year, so it doesn't matter if you pay a little more. It costs me $19 - $20 to fully charge at home.
I really don't care what I pay when I use the fast chargers. I'd be fine if it cost $100, because I only do it a few times a year. My fuel savings vs a gas F-150 driving 20K miles per year are in the thousands per year.
Excellent information for anyone considering an electric truck.Based on all the information you’ve given me,it shows me that an electric truck isn’t for me yet. I wanted to ask if you had heard anything about this,A friend told me that your battery warranty is directly affected by how much DC fast charging you do. DC fast charging shortens the life of the battery,Ford can see exactly how much you fast charge and pro rate your warranty time based on it. Is there any truth to this?
I checked, and federal law requires EVs to have a warranty of at least 100K miles or 8 years, whichever comes first, although manufacturers can have it be longer as a selling point. California goes even further, requiring a 10-year, 150,000-mile warranty on EV and hybrid batteries. It is true that ‘normal degradation’ will not trigger a warranty replacement, which has been a complaint with early Nissan Leaf model years.
I think this is probably one of the biggest downsides of the Lightning. It’s charging basically at 1C after that first 5 minute boost, or roughly the same as a Chevy Bolt. That’s too slow for 2022. That’s especially going to be a problem for towing. It should be charging at least 1.5C for the majority of the charging curve, or about 180kw.
We talk about charging rate terms of kw, and we tend to focus (too much) on peak charging rate. This truck is exactly why we shouldn’t. It peaks at 160kw for a matter of minutes. 120kw doesn’t sound too bad, until you consider that it is like a 120kwh battery. There are much smaller batteries that can charge at a much higher peak rate and a much higher sustained average rate than this.
Of course, if you charge at home as most EV owners do, it’s not a big deal. You’ll have to evaluate if a typical 32A/7kw charger will be enough to work with your commute given the inefficiency of this beast. But if you do road trips, as many truck owners do, especially when towing, this charges too slowly.
Hi Tom can you or any of your viewers tell me when plugged into a 30 amp 120 volt or a 20 amp 120 volt what the maximum current the lighting onboard charger will utilise?