P&O or Marella - The Rematch !

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  • Опубліковано 23 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 84

  • @quicksesh
    @quicksesh 11 місяців тому +6

    We had an issue on the Marella Discovery 2 in 2018 where the vessel based in Corfu ran out of a specific type of wine that my partner would drink (the only wine she enjoyed) ... the Food and Beverage manager explained to us what the problem was and then sent 2 bottles of wine (not available on the menu) to our cabin ... we then met the same officer on the Marella Explorer 2 in 2019 and he remembered us and sent us another bottle of wine ...

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  11 місяців тому

      What a lovely story ! Thank you for sharing this. Where do the cruise lines find these wonderful staff ?

  • @baz5973
    @baz5973 3 місяці тому +1

    Well balanced review, thanks for your time and effort, cheers.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  3 місяці тому

      Thank you - Really appreciate your feedback. Thank you for watching and support our channel.

  • @Northernsoulgroover
    @Northernsoulgroover 2 місяці тому +1

    Again a spot on review from our point of view from having done both

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  2 місяці тому

      Thank you again - glad you have again felt we’ve been fair in this video

  • @rogerwilliams9371
    @rogerwilliams9371 11 місяців тому +1

    Absolutely excellent video. I look forward to watching future ones. Thank you

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  11 місяців тому

      Thank you so much for those kind comments! Really appreciated. Our next cruise adventure is not too far away now . We are pretty excited for this one . Thx Again

  • @davehannigan1788
    @davehannigan1788 7 місяців тому +1

    Really helpful, been looking for someone doing such comparisons - we live near Southampton so all our friends go P&O but we’ve always been really happy with Marella. Many thanks

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  7 місяців тому

      Glad it was helpful!.. Thanks so much for watching and taking time to comment

  • @andreawyatt3059
    @andreawyatt3059 11 місяців тому +4

    We loved our cruise on Explorer, it was our first ever cruise, to be honest we didn't care about the casino or the gym. The food quality was great and there were plenty of options. The crew on our cruise were the biggest credit to the ship, always helpful and engaging, our favourite hangout spot was the Mediterranean bar at the back of the ship. A fantastic spot to view the sunsets each evening, you cannot beat natures shows. We had no negative experience during our cruise, apart from having to leave the ship at the end of our cruise.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  11 місяців тому

      What a lovely 1st Cruise experience! Explorer is lovely and the Mediterranean Bar takes some beating - Wonderful atmosphere! Really glad you had a great cruise with Marella … Thanks for watching and taking the time to share your experience… Hope you have another cruise in your plans ?

  • @ellied788
    @ellied788 10 місяців тому +1

    Having cruised with both, overall I do agree with a lot of your comments. I would recommend going on the P&O Iona - we were very impressed by the ship generally, but also found the flexible dining options made it quite relaxed and less stringent then perhaps some of the other P&Os. Albeit, still a dress code applied in the main dining but it didn’t feel so strict with the coming and going that flexible dining brings

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  10 місяців тому +1

      Thank you for watching and taking the time to share your experiences too ..We have booked Iona for later this year and have heard good things about her. Looking forward to that trip .

  • @MegThecat-q5z
    @MegThecat-q5z Рік тому +2

    Great video, and having travelled with both Marella and P&O, I can say it was well balanced. The subject of value for money is a minefield, and much of what I was going to add has already been covered in the comments of this, and your previous video.
    One thing which I think hasn't been raised is the cost of selecting your cabin. Marella make a simple charge of £60 for this, but P&O do this through select fare which gives other benefits and on board credit. In our case on Arvia, it cost £600, but we got free parking and £240 OBC, so it was more than £60.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому

      Thank you - Really appreciate the comment. Cost comparisons are tricky to do and have to be to an extent based on your personal feeling of whether you got good value for money but your comments are simply brilliant and add to the debate - The smoke and mirrors of the select fare and onboard credit are a brilliant bit of P&O Marketing but for some add great value through the benefits you can select. The Marella fares seem more transparent and there aren’t as many hidden twists and turns determining overall cost. Thx again for watching and commenting

  • @TravellingLightLisa
    @TravellingLightLisa Рік тому +1

    Thanks guys for doing this video. We haven't been on a Marella ship since pre covid, choosing to do P&O instead. However in January we are on the Marella Discovery 2 and it has given us an insight into what cruising with Marella will be like. Hoping we will enjoy it!! Thanks again 😂

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому +1

      Thank you for watching and comment guys. Exciting you are on Discovery 2 in the New Year. We sail her in February ...probably very similar itineraries. Looking forward to your videos and updates to get us in the mood. Enjoy your trip and thanks again.

  • @PeteWylieRC
    @PeteWylieRC 10 місяців тому +2

    That's interesting as we've only been on Royal Caribbean and Marella and going on Marella again this year. From what you are saying we've made the right choice between Marella and P&O. I would give a pub minus 5 points for having screens showing sport 🤣 Also the stuffy dress code on P&O is a big no from me. With the price I think it depends what deals are on and I think ours was more like £135 per night including flights and the cabin has a window. Anyway a helpful guide thanks 👍

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  10 місяців тому +1

      Thank you - Glad you found our video helpful. Cruise lines are increasingly trying to cater for everyone’s preferences likes and dislikes and generally they succeed brilliantly. But it’s hard then for them to find their niche .. I think these two lines do epitomise this dilemma whilst both trying to grab the new to cruise market. Really appreciate you watching our video and taking the time to comment.

  • @70PaulK
    @70PaulK 11 місяців тому +1

    Excellent video, really helpful for anyone curious about the "other" side. I've had 13 cruises with Marella/Thomson and their selling points are service and atmosphere. I found that the buffet & poolside food was much better on the Explorer ships than the Discovery, so I will stick to those ships. My big problem with Marella is the pricing, especially for solos. I've also sailed on the Ventura (and will try the Azura in spring) and found P&O to be very comfortable and excellent value for money- I will be using them again for that reason alone. I found the food on P&O to be fairly average, with a very sparse buffet. The formal dressing for the restaurant felt outdated, and could be tedious at the end of a hot day in port, but the budget pricing means you can spend more on speciality dining or meals in port.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  11 місяців тому

      Thank you so much for your kind comments. Yes Marella getting more pricy compared to P&O but we feel that you can tell that P&O are cost saving and cutting back. Even so the P&O forums are filled with people unhappy with P&Os dynamic pricing and more confusing pricing options. One viewer recently commented on how they welcomed the simplicity of Marella pricing even though it can cost a bit more. We resonated with that. Dress codes are so controversial and a real marmite topic .. But like you we feel the odd night is nice but it’s also lovely to relax and chill on holiday. Thx again for taking the time to share your thoughts.

  • @Bouquetboxglasgow
    @Bouquetboxglasgow 11 місяців тому

    Brilliant review, thank you

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  11 місяців тому

      Thank you for that lovely comment - Really appreciated

  • @robwrathmall
    @robwrathmall 10 місяців тому +1

    I’ve been on numerous cruises with marella. I keep considering p&o but I always end up cooking marella again, it just always seems to work out better value!

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  10 місяців тому

      Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.. appreciated. P&O do aggressively discount and various stages of their sales cycle. We’ve benefited from this previously and met fellow passengers that have paid double what we paid. Marella pricing seems much more stable and consistent..It is more than the P&O bargain fares but still is good value we feel. We are doing both lines again this year so will be able to update our view. We feel that P&O are now firmly a budget cruise line. Whereas Marella are trying to distance themselves from this tag. Thx again

  • @williamlorimer060867
    @williamlorimer060867 11 місяців тому +2

    Having on only ever been on TUI then renamed Marella ships I have all ways found them good value for money and over the years a have spoke to many people who have been on other cruise company ships and everyone has said the same thing friendly staff good food

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  11 місяців тому +1

      Thanks for sharing your experiences ! We think you’ll find many others who feel the same as you. Our Marella experiences have been brilliant! Hope you have another great cruise on your horizons.

  • @annmarieplumley9808
    @annmarieplumley9808 Рік тому +1

    I enjoyed your review, I have personally cruised on Arcadia & I love her formal nights this is one of the reasons why my sister & myself book with P& O as well as the Adults only, we both have very demanding jobs & really like the quietness of Arcadia, we sailed on her May 23 and enjoyed a wonderful cruise… even though a bug was brought onboard it didn’t stop us having a lovely cruise.. and have rebooked for 2025..& the entertainment was amazing & the theatre is a wonderful venue, everyone has different requirements when booking a cruise so will have a different experience when sailing.
    Spinnaker bar is amazing & they make the best Pina colada’s ever… 🎉🍹👍❤️❤️

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому

      Thank you so much for watching and commenting. Arcadia is a lovely ship for sure and you are right in that you can easily find peaceful spots to sit and chill and relax with an excellent cocktail. Hope you’ve got a great itinerary planned for your next trip? Thanks again and happy travels

  • @PostcardAndAPint
    @PostcardAndAPint Рік тому +1

    This is really interesting. We’re thinking of a cruise with P&O fairly soon, so this is great. Wow, cases outside at 4pm? Interesting about the self embarkation though, we’d probably go with that. We hardly went to the Indigo on the Explorer. Good to know about the heated pool on the Arcadia. Gymnasium? Nah, won’t be needed that 😂. We loved the dining room on the Explorer. Really interested that you felt the food was slightly better on the Explorer. We loved the food there but have seen videos saying they were disappointed with the food on the Marella, so pleased you said that. Ah the old silent DJs, really not our bag but good to hear your opinion. I think you were on the cruise after we were. We loved Captain Alan on the Explorer, managed to get a good interview with him on one of our vlogs. To be honest, the dress code issue on P&O is concerning us a little. No towel animals on P&O??!!! That’s rubbish! 😂 we have to say that we though the Marella was excellent value for money and we really liked the inclusive drinks, didn’t need to pay more so really interesting about P&O actually being cheaper. Really enjoyed this and watched in full. Also found it very useful. Think you have been totally fair. Fab work!! 🍻

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому

      Thank you so much Guys. Comments like this are why we make these videos .. Really trying to help people plan great holidays. If you do sail with P&O- you will see a difference to Marella for sure but it is still a great holiday and we hope you have some nice trips and experiences planned - Looking forward to those videos.. Thanks again and Cheers 🍻

  • @cjcrawford7443
    @cjcrawford7443 9 місяців тому +1

    After paying a fortune for a premium drinks package on P&O we found my husband could only get his favourite brand in certain bars. Unfortunately they didn't serve my drink brand ..The result being we literally couldn't settle anywhere of an evening as ether one of us had to do without a drink in the respective bars..Also the cocktails were premixed mixture.
    We had done a transatlantic with Marella earlier in the year and all drinks were freshly made even in stormy weather.
    As older cruisers the Marella staff always go out of their way to help...and have time to chat...Can't fault P&O staff but they are always so busy I feel they are understaffed.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  9 місяців тому

      We have struggled to find people whom say the P&O drinks package represents good value to be honest. The odd one or two but not many and it clearly didn’t work for you. We are amazed at how cruise lines find such lovely crew . They are amazing. Thanks for watching and adding your experiences to the debate ! Appreciated..

  • @billcook4768
    @billcook4768 9 місяців тому +1

    5:40 somebody’s been drinking 👍

  • @HubbaHubba64
    @HubbaHubba64 Рік тому +1

    I used to cruise with Marella with my last cruise on Discovery 2 from Cyprus to Oman via Suez Canal and i have now realised Marella don't want Solo passengers any more to the point where i paid more for a single cabin that i would have if i went with a friend and trying to get an Under sale is like pulling teeth from a Dodo .

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому

      Thx for watching and taking the time to comment. I have heard similar from other solo passengers but unable to comment but you are spot on about the scarcity of deals on Marella at the moment … very few and far between and unless you are prepared to sail tomorrow the savings offered are very modest …. This I think though reflects their success and they do offer a great holiday experience…Thx again

    • @HubbaHubba64
      @HubbaHubba64 Рік тому +1

      @@CooksExplore Yes it is a great company but any company that is happy to have empty cabins/rooms will soon have problems

    • @quicksesh
      @quicksesh 11 місяців тому

      Yes, I noticed that they aren't so keen on solo travellers, but I am now looking at companies like Celestyal as they seem to be far more reasonable.

    • @louisat470
      @louisat470 10 місяців тому

      @@quicksesh Is anywhere good for solo travellers when it comes to price (genuine question) ? I had a great time on board but obviously paid double what others did- i did appreciate though that the excursion coaches weren't overbooked and I could sit by myself 😂

    • @quicksesh
      @quicksesh 10 місяців тому

      @@louisat470 Hi there .. well the only tips I can give is if you can be flexible on dates and have the ability to book time off at short notice there are deals to be had. I was looking at a 3 night cruise in Greece on Celestyal when I thought I'd just check on Marella, where I found a balcony cabin on the ME2 for 7 nights on the shoulder season (2nd week of June) to Greece where the single supplement was only £700 however they discounted £300 pounds for some reason and then there was a TUI promo code that I spotted elsewhere that knocked another £200 off the price so I booked it. Then I took the time off from work, etc.
      The reality of solo travelling is that you have to look at the shoulder seasons (April to very early June or very late August to November as in Greece or the Adriatic it is still bloomin' marvellous around those times) and just keep looking at the companies to see if they are making any offers at the start or end of the seasons, but if you want to go high season or for long periods then the companies are restrictive as they know they can fill the ships.
      That said I would seriously look at companies like Celestyal as they seem to be reasonable when it comes to single supplements.
      As for destinations for solo travellers, I would always look at Greece, Adriatic countries, Mediterranean France and the quieter parts of the Balearics.
      Hope that helps?

  • @michaelthompson6885
    @michaelthompson6885 11 місяців тому +2

    Great comparison and many thanks but for us Marella deliver exactly what is paid for with no nasty surprises and no meeting passengers that paid much much less than we have

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  11 місяців тому +1

      Wow - What a great comment and brilliant put .. Thank you !

  • @harlanabraham7772
    @harlanabraham7772 6 місяців тому +1

    Don't really like going outside that much on a cruise ship. Food and drink are very important on a cruise. Don't know that much about Marella Cruise Line. P&O Cruises is part of the Carnival Corp. the world's largest cruise line. Maybe one day try both.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  6 місяців тому

      Thank you for watching and taking the time to leave a comment.. Appreciated.. Totally agree on the importance of having good food on a cruise as demonstrated by our recent MSC cruise..P&O have been inconsistent for us on the food front. Our recent Iona trip was really good but others have let us down. Marella have been consistent. It’s never the finest dining but never bad and we’ve always found something to enjoy. Thx again

    • @medusa8772
      @medusa8772 4 місяці тому +1

      We went on Marella loved it ; but cabins needed updating,but this year are booking one with floor to ceiling window !not bothered about a balcony. But can't understand people who stay on a ship ,when there a such diverse countries and sights to visit

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  4 місяці тому

      @@medusa8772 - We agree .. Totally.. Thx for watching and sharing your experiences

  • @marecianoble5826
    @marecianoble5826 Рік тому +3

    Marella is too informal for us we prefer the dressing up on p&o and the fact it is enforced. It's good there are cruises to suit everyone.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому

      Thank you for watching and commenting. There are many P&O customers who feel the same way as you although from the absence of available seating in the buffet you’d have to say that many onboard were probably wanting something a bit more flexible. This is conundrum that P&O will hopefully find a way to solve satisfying everyone’s tastes. Wholeheartedly agree that it’s great that the cruise market provides great choice. Thx again for taking the time to comment.

  • @torrancetraveller9447
    @torrancetraveller9447 10 місяців тому

    Very good coverage of the key factors....maybe focus a bit more on the food and drink as this is so important.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  10 місяців тому

      Thx for watching and for the useful feedback..appreciated.

  • @CatherineMitchell-vw3ix
    @CatherineMitchell-vw3ix 2 місяці тому +1

    We have done both and will never do P&O again.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  2 місяці тому

      Thx for watching and sharing your experience… Sounds like P&O let you down terribly ? Are you happy to share any details for the benefit of other viewers ? Thx Again

  • @hberry7560
    @hberry7560 9 місяців тому

    Hi do both have a fridge in the cabin please xxx

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  9 місяців тому

      Hi - Thank you - On these cruises yes but we’ve just come off Marella Discovery 2 and our inside cabin didn’t have a Fridge .. Hope this helps

    • @hberry7560
      @hberry7560 9 місяців тому

      Thankyou that's a shame as need one for medication x

  • @mdiz4564
    @mdiz4564 Рік тому +2

    A great review. I recently traveled on P&O’s Iona and was very disappointed with the quality of service. The staff were over working and miserable! We also struggled to get into specialty dining as everything was booked up. The ship was bland in every way! We won’t travel with P&O again! No wonder they are so cheap.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому +1

      Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment… On Christmas Day too.. Glad you think we’ve been fair … but also a bit alarmed as we’ve booked Iona for May ..Hopefully they will have sorted the problems by then 🤞.. But increasingly and from the comments we receive we feel you’ve hit the nail on the head with respect to their pricing strategy and the issues it creates …Merry Christmas and wishing you a Happy New Year !

    • @mdiz4564
      @mdiz4564 Рік тому +1

      @@CooksExplore I’m sure you’ll have a great trip on Iona. I must admit that the quality of service varied from venue to venue. Some good, some average to poor. The ship was at full capacity in May 2023 and there wasn’t enough staff. Book all your speciality dining early. I’m also glad that we didn’t bother with the drinks package ether. The Sindu was excellent but booked up and half empty🤔. Some of the entertainment was limited and a bit Karaoke too. I was disappointed with our first experience with P&O and have booked a trip with good old Marella (Voyager). See how we go. We have traveled with many other cruise lines pre covid but it may be just the way it is now?

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому

      @@mdiz4564 Thank you - They are great tips we will try and heed. We’ve not sailed on Voyager yet but have heard good things about the passenger experience. Hope you have a great trip and Happy New Year !

    • @MegThecat-q5z
      @MegThecat-q5z Рік тому +1

      We did Arvia in May. 100% agree on booking as much in advance as possible. One of the things that irritated me on Arvia was the necessity to book the MDR or other included restaurants on the App. Booking was only avaliable for 17:30 or 17:45. If you wanted to dine later, you had to wait till the "virtual queue" opened at 18:30.
      So you had to sit there at 18:29 with the app open, refreshing the page every 5 seconds till the queue opened (like calling the doctors surgery at 08:00 to try to get an appointment). Once the queue opened, there were normally 10 or 20 people already in it, sometimes more. The wait time also varied. One night we got notified after 15 mins, another night it was 1 hour 40 mins. This makes going to the theatre a challenge. The extra cost venues were available to book at any time, so we ended up booking one of the extra cost venues more times than we normally would have. I'm sure that is not a coincidence!

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому

      Thanks for watching and sharing your experiences on Arvia - We have had similar feedback from others expressing frustration about booking the MDR … And like you say it appears easier to book speciality dining ….Hmmm ! Our experiences of virtual queues on P&O have been that you wait longer in those than turning up and waiting outside but we are yet to experience Arvia … Hope you get a better experience on your next cruise ..Thx again

  • @debbieball900
    @debbieball900 3 місяці тому +1

    Marella wins hands down for us.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  3 місяці тому +1

      Marella are great and consistent in what they offer ! We like that .. Thanks for watching and taking time to comment too

  • @nocturn791
    @nocturn791 8 місяців тому

    A dinner suit should never be worn with brown shoes! I'm surprised they let you in to the dining room.....🤗

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  8 місяців тому

      Always like to “live on the edge” - Thank you

  • @Aldo21t
    @Aldo21t 3 місяці тому

    The 4pm suitcase rule is FROM 4pm. The latest you can leave your case is outside your room is 2am! Ive done 5 P&O cruises and this rule has slways been the same

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  3 місяці тому

      Thanks for watching and sharing your experiences- Our recollection of this cruise was different to your experience and unusual hence why we mentioned it. Thx again

  • @GeorgeRenshaw-f6c
    @GeorgeRenshaw-f6c 8 місяців тому +1

    a bit unfair comparison two ships catering for different type of cruisers. you should have done your research before booking the cruises

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  8 місяців тому

      Thank you for watching and adding your views to the debate.

  • @simracer1256
    @simracer1256 4 місяці тому +1

    P&O yer naff

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  4 місяці тому

      Thanks for watching - Consistency is P&O’s weakness . They can be brilliant as we found out in May on Iona and downright ordinary and underwhelming as in this video and the cruise we are currently on.. Consistency on the other hand is what Marella do .. It’s never amazing but always good we’ve found ..Thx again

  • @michaelthompson6885
    @michaelthompson6885 Рік тому +3

    Stop it!! obviously Marella for price and cruise experience, many cruise lines have better ships than Marella but for value and experience there is only one winner.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому

      Love this comment - Thank you …

    • @MarkEardley1968
      @MarkEardley1968 11 місяців тому +1

      Have you looked at 2024 Marella prices? They have shot up to around the same as others, particularly NCL, Celebrity etc…😮

    • @michaelthompson6885
      @michaelthompson6885 11 місяців тому

      Oh yes and prices have increased a fair bit but my wife and i are retired now so we only book the late deals and they are fantastic value.@@MarkEardley1968

  • @michaelthompson6885
    @michaelthompson6885 Рік тому +1

    Explorer pales in comparison to the Discovery ships and even Explorer two

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  Рік тому

      Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment … Have Discovery 2 to look forward to in February.. Is she better than Discovery 1??

    • @sandraheaton4929
      @sandraheaton4929 11 місяців тому +4

      ​@@CooksExplorewe've sailed on the Discovery ship many times we've recently arrived back home off Discovery 2 ship we did enjoy but I've got to say Discovery ship is our favourite & always will be there is just something about the ship that we love just be warned when we was on Discovery 2 ship a lot of selfish folk on there who took on board themselves to move tables & chairs from the sitting area on deck 10 where the open bar is to put their sunbeds leaving people with no where to sit we like to sit there listening to the bands on deck & joining in with the quiz but days we wasn't allowed to do this because of the problem with sunbeds being put there also so.e people wasn't happy with a sunbed they claimed a chair also most of the time there was 1 or the other not being sat/lied on leaving people with no where to sit sorry to say this but we won't be returning to Discovery 2 ship.

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  11 місяців тому

      @@sandraheaton4929 - Thanks for watching and sharing your experiences. We are on Discovery 2 next month. Hoping our fellow passengers are more considerate that those you experienced. We know that some cruise lines try and enforce a sunbed policy that is supposed to prevent experiences like yours. But we’ve never seen such a policy work effectively unfortunately and we’ve seen similar behaviour on every cruise line we’ve sailed on. Hopefully you’ll have a better experience on your next cruise. Thanks again ..

  • @chrisgraham-rowe3311
    @chrisgraham-rowe3311 8 місяців тому +2

    P & O looks crap .give me marella any day .

    • @CooksExplore
      @CooksExplore  8 місяців тому

      Thank you - P&O has its good points and many people love it … Marella seem consistent and combined with their make it fun approach… does seem to win over many … including us

    • @chrisgraham-rowe3311
      @chrisgraham-rowe3311 8 місяців тому

      @@CooksExplore looking at the food on P &O it didnt look the best .plus you have to pay alot more for drinks packages on P &O .
      The way they sacked their staff and recruited agency instead was an outrage .people are quick to forget that.