Sony FS5 mkii Venice Color Profile test
Вставка
- Опубліковано 23 жов 2024
- We pit the new standard Venice Picture Profile on the Sony FS5 mkii against Rec.709 and Slog3 graded to match the Venice. Watch the video to see how the look stacks up against the rest across a variety of skin tones & colours.
The Venice looks fantastic, especially for an out of the box function.
Thanks for the comment Michael. Agreed!
No change in autofocus is a real bummer knowing all the a7x improvements and c200 amazing dpaf
Agreed!
SLog 3 graded is the best !
Is this “Venice color” only achieved when the PP is turned off? Or are there specific PP settings to achieve this look?
Great Video! Venice looks amazing.
Is there anyway of emulating this look on the fs5 mark i? Would it be possible to change some of the settings in one of the picture profiles to create an "out of the box" look similar to this one?
Thanks for this! Very disappointing that the only change in color comes when using the Venice profile. The way Sony reps made it sound in all the announcements and interviews was that the change in color science is independent of the picture profiles, but that is clearly not true.
it is, if you select no picture profile at all, its on as standard.
I have an fs5ii and a7siii. Is there a pp on the fs5ii that will closely match the a7siii S-cinetone profile?
This really helped! I just got the FS5 and have only shot in SLOG but I don't have any LUTS and so this might save some time!
Hey. thanks for your test. waiting for the sale of this camera. it would be very interesting to see the test with the atomos recorder.
Hi there. Curious to know in light of your previous tests with C200, Ursa Mini and EVA1 if you feel Sony is finally competing in terms of colour. After wrestling with the GH5 after selling my C100ii I'm eager to get back to a cinema camera form factor for documentary style shooting, but I've always been put off by Sony colours. Struggling to make a decision, but the C200 raw would definitely be a bonus for some higher end work and music videos. It's a bloody stalemate!
Hi Liam! Great question. Colour is somewhat of a personal preference. One where you kind of have to do your own tests to see what you like the best. My personal preference has traditionally been with Canon's colours, but i've been able to make great images out of Sony cameras. Especially if you know how to colour well you'll be happy with pretty much any camera. I wish there was an easy answer to your question, but maybe it's just the camera you can afford is the camera you buy. If you have control over your lighting (not needing high-iso), the URSA is also a great choice albeit a bit of a beast.
Yeah it's definitely tricky and there's never an easy answer. My gradings skills are ok, out of necessity rather than love, but I wouldn't call myself a colourist. I have decided the URSA isn't for me because of that word 'beast'. I do far too many run and gun jobs for that. I suppose that's why the C200 is pretty much winning because I'm used to the colour science and love it, and being able to shoot raw internally means flicking a switch and stepping into a higher end world without cables hanging off, more batteries to worry about, mounting a recorder etc. The only thing that gives me pause is the BM pocket 4K which I think will be a great little camera, but then I'll still be tousling with ND's and external battery solutions for longer shoots. As always it has turned into a 'what do I need?' vs 'what do I want?' type of debate. The EVA1 would be closer to the top of the list if I hadn't heard terrible things about build quality which is genuinely really important to me when I'm throwing a camera into the backseat of a car. I always promise myself I won't do that anymore, and yet I always do at some point.
Thanks for the comparison! I have one question regarding what you said at the beginning of the video, when you said it has 4K at 60 frames per second. Is that feature available with internal or external recording?
Thanks Gastón. From Sony's website:
The FS5 II builds on Sony’s heritage for image quality, delivering stunning High Frame rate shots supporting four seconds of 120fps in 4K and continuous 240fps at 60Hz mode and 200fps at 50Hz mode in 2K (2048X1080) RAW output when used in conjunction with a compatible external recorder. Continuous 4K 60fps RAW output at 59.94p is fully supported, with 50fps supported at 50Hz mode. The camcorder also offers High Frame Rate (HFR) recording to an internal SD card at Full HD 10bit 4:2:2 image quality and a frame rate of up to 240 fps of 8-second cache recording, allowing up to 10 x slow motion and capturing 239.76fps at HD or 2K, and playback at 23.98p. Continuous recording of 120fps in Full HD is also supported.
Gastón PM it's only available externally
Fantastic. Short and straight to the point!
Thanks Davis!
Thank you for the great video. I have been waiting for one to show color improvement. My question to you is Venice color is the only way to get new color. Slog won’t have any impact over original fs5? Making the only difference being one color profile. If I go raw out it will be the original color science?
Osiris Media I want to know this too
Hi Osiris - I'd like to be able to answer this question, but the way it was phrased is a little confusing. The new standard Venice color profile is available only on the FS5 Mk2. The only way to get it is to purchase that camera. Grading Slog to match is a way to get close to it, but not exact and still requires a reference image. RAW will have nothing to do with colour science, in that RAW is bayered information that your computer then has to interpret, thus bypassing the processor. It is the processor, in fact that is creating the looks in camera. I hope this addresses your question.
Vistek | Your Visual Imaging Experts thank you for the reply. I totally understand the color profile is in fs5ii. My question is that new color science is only present in Venice profile. That if I go to shoot in slog on fs5ii it would be the same color as slog in original fs5.
I believe so. The sensor has not changed. It feels as though this is somehow a re-tweak, but all the science behind the other profiles should remain intact. This of course is a question beyond my knowledge of the camera. Perhaps someone at Sony is in a better position to speak about this.
Vistek | Your Visual Imaging Experts thank you. I was under the impression that the whole camera had better color science including its slogs and understood older profiles could match to original fs5. Just a bummer if the only way to get better color is one profile. While I admit it’s a beautiful one. Colors do pop and I agree with you with dimensionality. However those highlights in your slog are so beautifully controlled . Shame one can’t use slog when needed and not experience better color. I will email Sony and ask.
Venice looks great, but how does it handle low light? does it have similar dynamic range as slog?
Hi CH - No, it would not have the same DR as any log profile. That's the idea of a log profile - enhanced range, but the need to grade in post. Venice profile should be stronger in the shadows and low light as per most Rec.709 or Hypergamma profiles. - D
Am I missing something? I don’t find “Venice Color” or “Rec 709” into the picture profiles…
709 will be listed in the colour space if you dive into the profile settings. 709 is the "standard" picture profile. So when you don't have a PP selected. Venice colour will not be listed - you just have to know that it's PP1.
What jacket is that?
Do you loose any dynamic range using PP1 Venice Color compared to Slog3?
Hi Thomas, Yes, there will be dynamic range loss with this gamma curve. S log still contains the greatest range, but of course there are trade offs with using Slog. For a majority of productions who have limited time or resources for grading, standard picture profiles or hyper-gammas are the only solution.
It would be very interesting to know exactly how many stops of dynamic range the new gamma curve keeps. And how it is different to the cine gamma's 10-11 stops (if I recall correctly)...
question, is PP1 the only profile with venice color?
Hi MM. Yes, that is correct. Only PP1 currently.
What is the best solution for getting the venice look with a FS5 mk1?
For now it's going to be shooting in Slog3 and manually grading. There is a LUT out there for Venice Slog to 709 that can get you close to start the manual grade, but that's about it. Even then, it won't be a close match. My suggestion is to somehow get your hands on an FS5 Mk2 and shoot a well balanced clip in Venice colour, and one in Slog. Then grade the Slog to match as close as you can the Venice clip. From there you can export your grade as a 3D LUT to apply in post and use in your monitoring (if you have a separate monitor).
LUTS by the master Alister Chapman: www.xdcam-user.com/2018/05/venice-look-luts-for-14-stop-cameras-a7-fs5-fs7-f5-f55-etc/
I'm hoping the FS7 gets a Venice firmware update as the FS7 lacks a decent out-of-the-box colour profile that's genuinely ready to go.
Of course, if an accurate 3rd party LUT was available, I'd probably buy it. Much better if Sony did it though - even if a payment was needed at least we'd know it was a genuine Venice profile.
Here are the LUTS! www.xdcam-user.com/2018/05/venice-look-luts-for-14-stop-cameras-a7-fs5-fs7-f5-f55-etc/
actually, have you not tried the alexa profiles in cine ei mode? That's out of the box ready to go.
ua-cam.com/video/1IiCN1qdSQQ/v-deo.html
What lens did you use on the ladies?
No recollection, I'm afraid. May have been Veydra primes as I have a set of those in my office and use them from time to time.
I am selling my Sony a7sii and a7rii to buy a new main camera. What would you suggest? I need a small run n gun for documentary and some studio work. Canon C200 or the FS5 mk2?
I would suggest Sony if you're already familiar with its ecosystem.
I also have a Canon 1dXmkii so I am familiar with Canon as well :D So hard choose. My only struggle is 4sec burst 120fps 4k or none...
What is dimensiality?
"Dimensionality" as he's referring to in this case is the look that makes the image appear more 3 dimensional.
When cameras are shooting in log or some other cinema flat profile all that is removed in order to cram in as many stops as possible.
I suppose you could define dimensionality scientifically by using terms like micro contrast and contrast but it's a lot harder to describe in such terms than it is to just see. Some cameras and lenses are much more able to achieve a look that looks 3 dimensional, and for other cameras and lenses, no matter how much post work is put in doesn't get that level.
I think in general you'll get a sense for this as you look at reference images and also shoot your own work. As I think looking at your own work and comparing will really hammer home what has that look and what doesn't. I'd also say this helps a lot with other things such as seeing the difference in contrast, color correction, color grade, and sharpness. (In other words we could spend a bunch of time describing the differences, but learning yourself from your own footage and grading it then comparing it will help you see the differences much faster, then you'll not only have a target look, but you'll see the gulf if any between someone else's work and yours).
Uhhh, why does sony set their skin tones to be underexposed/ darker? I like to have more of a highlight of the face in camera.
the cinegammas are like that
SLOG3 graded is the best!
Hello there, are you sure the Venice profile is PP1?, some other bloger says that the Venice profile is PP0. See link below, go to minute 15:07
ua-cam.com/video/ZnacZIsmKfk/v-deo.html
Thank you.
Hi Gerardo - yes. The ultimate sony expert Alister Chapman (xdcam-user.com) has this to say "The FS5 MKII base settings and PP1 are based on the Venice Look. All other settings are the same as the FS5 MK 1." www.xdcam-user.com/2018/04/pxw-fs5-ii-secret-sauce-and-venice-colour-science/
Sony is incredibly uncompetitive. The Fs5mkii is literally identical in every way to the FS5 in every way except software and processing.
We're going to be doing a mega shootout with blackmagic cameras, that's where its at.
Why does this footage look so soft?
Looks sharp on my end. Sorry I don't see what you see. When you say "soft", it's soft in what way? Can you point to a particular moment?
only one venice profile??? This is the biggest joke in camera marketing history
Colour science is like rocket science. Nobody knows what it is, but they charge you a couple thousand bucks for it. For me it is scam.