Turns out there’s no pleasing some people. You can have a paradise island to live on, Extended lifespans, magical gifts from elves and a nice white tree. But still it’s not enough.
The wars of Beleriand and the destruction of Melkor were due to the Elves. The sacrifices of the humans contributed greatly to Melkor's defeat, but they were rewarded with an island and a half-blood elf king. Even the royal titles were elvish. While the pointy-eared were enjoying all the blessings, humanity's duty was at best to die of old age. Hail to the Kimgsmen
Morgoth planted the seeds. He decieved humanity that the death is horrible thing and not a road to the after life. The fear turned into the greed of immortality.
@@rikuvakevainen6157 Nonsense, shall we not accept the injustice of Elves being immortal and mortal people just because Melkor or Sauron expressed it? Are we going to take out one of our eyes just because orcs have two eyes?
@@rikuvakevainen6157 and Melkor perceived the strife within the Noldor, and sowed the seeds of hatred. The reason humanity began to rebel against this injustice has nothing to do with Melkor or Sauron.
Over an hour 👀 you're really spoiling us. It's weirdly refreshing seeing that the grandfather of modern fantasy wasn't just a "Elves are always better" kind of guy. The Numenoreans are absolutely key to defeating Sauron, and the Elves aren't made to seem lesser for needing their help. I think you left out the most best part of the story though. The image of Tar-Miriel ascending Meneltarma alone as the waves swallowed her is one of the most powerful in all of Tolkien's work, and it's a shame you didn't put it to screen. Over all though, a great video. I learned things I didn't even know from this, which is saying something. Honestly the story of Numenor is a really good example of "democratic" (it's a monarchy but still) backsliding, and how norms need institutions to support them, and institutions need people. Though some of it is a bit rough to listen to, like the "downfall" of Numenor coincides with the decision to allow women to rule.
Numenor fell because Sauron whispered sweet nothings into Mens ears that they took into their heart's because he convinced them to abandon God and embrace pride thats why they fell not because a women took the throne thats like such a logical jump it makes me think that the video worded something weird because she had little power and her husband ruled hes the one who plunged (pun intended) Numenor to it's doom she had no way to stop as Sauron had already got the people in the palm of his hands she is presented as a good person robbed of the opportunity she was born for and watch as it was destroyed in front of her.
Almost like women ruling as a norm is detrimental to society and that was one of the messages Tolkien is trying to tell us. Can easily be seen in todays society with all these modern women “leaders”
Interesting how society’s tend to crumble quickly after women gain power to rule. Totally not analogous to today at all. Can’t imagine what Tolkien was trying to tell us
I don’t think it’s mere coincidence that after women were given significant positions of political power that things began to backslide for Númenor. Though do not mistake me, I still do not lie the blame on the Númenorean women. I believe the catalyst event occurred due to the one Númenorean King who couldn’t keep his ass at home and was constantly away sailing and exploring. He never sired a son and cared little for ruling (he just wanted to sail and explore) so he changed the understood and accepted practice of succession so he could give it to his daughter instead of the next of kin whom was a man.
@@HansWurst1569 I'm not sure what word you're referring to. If you're referring to ''paradise'', the original meaning of the word was simply 'garden'.... alluding to the Garden Of Eden. My comment is an hyperbole; a summary of the condition I believe the Numenorians began to realise. Being so close to Eldamar (to their west), but still living in a land (Numenor) so evidently a land of mortality, the blessings of long life and prosperity began to undermine the original 'blessing' that Eru had bestowed. Tolkien is experimenting with the age-old problem of the Human condition with the mortals of his Middle Earth. We are not able to find any true peace and happiness in our lives. The more prosperous we are, the more we wish our days to continue. That we know they will not, is like having a day of perfect health, surrounded by ones loved ones in a place of peace of and pleasure... only to know that one is going to be executed that very afternoon. Whatever pleasure there might be is ruined by the knowledge of impending death. On the other hand, the more miserable we are, the more we hope that there is a life hereafter where such miseries are washed away and we may know the peace and felicity that Tolkien's elves in Eldamar seem to enjoy. Here is where Tolkien lapsed in his sub-creation. He did not offer any clarity as to what happens after death to his Middle Earth mortals. Gandalf, at one point, comforts a hobbit with a picture of the dead one's souls travelling across 'the sea' until it reaches a kind of Heaven. In his legendarium, that 'heaven' is, it seems clear enough, Eldamar. But Tolkien had made it abundantly clear that Eldamar was not for Humans (including Hobbits). We either hold to a promise of a Heaven (and Tolkien, as a good Catholic would do so), or else we resign ourselves to our lives such as they are and do our best to make them as good as they can be. But Tolkien did not do the former position for his Middle Earth mortals, and so the latter position (making the best of things while they last) is all there is. So... without a clear vision and promise of a blessed life hereafter, for us as well as Middle Earth mortals, life in Paradise without the promise of mortality is sheer torture.
Are they related to the Dunedain? I remember Eowyn mentioning that Aragorn was one of them. Considering they left Numenor shortly after Sauron's arrival, it wouldn't surprise me if the Druidain then became the Dunedain.
@@user-bz9of6tn6l No. The druedain were a completely different race of men both in stature, history, religion, and speech.The dunedain were descendants of the faithful numenoreans. Unlike the dunedain, the druedain were animistic and mostly matriarchal -And they wear only loincloths and love stone carvings which they believed houses the spirit of their ancestors.
@@user-bz9of6tn6l you're welcome!And In case you're wondering, the druedain were invited to settle in Numenor for their assistance in defeating morgoth's army during the battle of wrath in beleriand. BIG SHOCK for me but it was better than living in persecution in middle earth.
Absolutely amazing video! It really feels like I’m watching an animated movie. I love the animation and style of your videos and can’t wait for more about middle earth! Hopefully we can get a whole second age video similar to your 2 two hour long videos about the first age!
The tale of Numenor is one that angered me. But I suppose accepting the mortality that all men are cursed or gifted with is part of life. It is never easy.
@@brokensky2378 If anything, it's worse. Imagine having to live hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years until the world ends. Sounds exhausting.
I mean, I can't really blame the Numenorians. Think that men were given the gift of spiritual ascension... while being denied any ability to actually understand or interact with that upper world until they are dead. Similarly, the elves were granted great spiritual wisdom and knowledge... yet remain completely tethered to the physical world. In this way, it almost seemed as if Eru Ilúvatar wanted his children to come to envy each other.
@@HansWurst1569 it is a test, mortality teaches men to put aside themselves in service to that which is greater than them out of love and grace and in so doing they are proven to be fit to create the new world with Eru at the end of time and willingly relinquish the old world to create something greater.
@@thescarletpumpernel3305 Ya but cmon, not even ONE elf could explain the numenoreans this concept? Not even the good ones understood it and they just took it as a leap of faith. I mean its not bad writing as it took a VERY long time to erode their believes but still it seems like a bit of a plot device no? (Im not a hater, just looking at the story from an outside persective!!)
@@HansWurst1569 not really imo, its the same with real life religions, most erode over time regardless of how easy their concepts are to understand or how strong the belief of the first generations were.
I've realised the views aren't much on the Stormlight videos as compared to the rest but can you please keep making them. I know it's kinda selfish to ask😅
It was a bit hypocritical of the Valar to reward the men of Numenor with prolonged life spans, while also insisting that their mortality was a gift. If mortality is a gift, why is it considered a reward to have your life span lengthened? I wouldn't be surprised if the Numenoreans percieved this double-standard, and if this was the seed of their eventual corruption
@@Alex-pb6mx It is a part of the lore, that only Eru knows the "final destiny of men", and that elves or even Valar cannot really understand the purpose of "the gift of mortality". But my point was that the Men didn't understand this purpose either. And by being gifted longevity, resistance to decease and other gifts which made them "a bit more like elves but not quite", it probably contributed to them thinking that this mortality business wasn't all it was made out to be. Like I said "If mortality is so great, why do the Valar prolong our life spans?" We also often see that the Valar are not always perfect. They are reluctant to intervene in Middle Earth out of fear of harming the peoples of the world. They love their "children" almost to a fault (see the discussion between Yavanna and Aulë about ents and dwarves). They want to provide for their beloved "lesser races" in the way they themselves think best! I think it would be totally in their character to be so blinded by love for the Numenoreans, that they just showered them with gifts the Valar considered great, without thinking who the recipients were.
@@Uberdude6666The valar loves the world. Just like how Yavanna made ents to counter the dwarves to protect the forest. The extended lifespan was just the icing on the cake. Men are not made to be immortal. At a certain point our spirit will just grew tired. The reason why numenor became so advanced was because they were not immortal. Granting them immortality will made them bare the curse of the elves. Bounded to the world and want nothing to change. The reason it’s a gift is by having a limited time, the men can do great things and pursue them. Unlike the elves who just want to live in peace and happiness forever, meaning they don’t want the world to change. The men always seeks to improve themselves and their children lives. That’s why humans can always advances, our hope that our children can live greater lives than our own. Planting the seeds so our descendants can enjoy the trees. If we live forever, we would never think to do that. We would also lose all sense of urgency, or have urgency at all. We would no longer have great innovations. That’s why it’s a gift of mortality. Humans live are much more colorful and when it’s time we pass on. The men in arda pass and live with Eru. While the elves are bounded in the world and their spirits return to Mandos in Valinor.
@@mks2042 Beautifully explained! That is truly the essence of the "gift of mortality".s Not trying to "retcon my mistake" or anyhting, but I sort of already knew that. Though I could never explain it as well as you! Do you mind if I quoute you on that when writing LotR-fanfiction...? If so, what you want me to refer to you as? (yes its serious question, if you don't care about being quoted just say so :) ) I was just trying to understand how the Numenoreans came to view it. I get that, like all privileged people, the Numenoreans just wanted more privileges. I am just curious about what the situation looked like from their point of view. That is what I mean by "the gift of mortality" maybe looked kind of hypocritical to their eyes. Based on your explanation, I am sure the Illuvatar's "rationale" is something like this: Gift of mortality=the feeling that you got to do what you can, with the limited time you got. THe whole point is that you have to leave the table while "still feeling hungry" for life. Numenoreans, then, get to be "super-men"(literally).They get to sit at the table, enjoying the feast, a good chunk longer than middle-men. To try a silly metaphor: Middle-men's life span is, like, a standard dinner at a restaurant. The food is okay, but the staff is kind of in a hurry, there's a lot of noise and they are kind of rushed out of the restaurant when they are done, to make room for more guests. Low-key, people are kind of glad when its over, though what they really wished was to just get nice food and be able to enjoy it in peace. The numenoreans basically get the VIP-pass, where they can really savour their delicious 12-course meal throughout the whole evening. They get to eat until they are full, a wide choice of deserts and even after that they probably just sit around for hours, talking while having drinks and coffee/tea. Finally, when they can eat and drink no more, they call it a night and go home happy.
@@Uberdude6666 that’s fine if you want to quote me, I like reading fanfics of lotr, just tell me the title and website. I dont really need the credit, it’s free to use. Just like you said at first the numenorean are supposed to have all the joy of mortality until they are satisfied enough to lay down their lives. In the early days of numenor most of them lay down their lives willingly because they are satisfied already. In numenor they can’t have sickness, war, and plenty of resources. After tasted heaven for 300+ years, they grew bored and satisfied so they give up their lives willingly. However, that changed when they made contact in middle earth. That’s when they realized that they are better than all other men in middle earth. At first, they are still kind and teach the middle-men (men in ME) all kinds of virtues. But this all changed when they fight Sauron. They realized that the elves struggled against Sauron but they managed to defeat Sauron three times easily. Essentially after this they realized not only they are greater than the rest of men. They are unchallenged in ME. After the king dies, his heir tar ciryatan became ambitious. He is greedy, though he led numenor to be richer, he started collecting taxes and tributes in ME. That’s when numenorean became from teachers and guides to dominator and lords. After dominating, they feel power, and power corrupts. That’s why they became greedy for live. They enjoy being superior to all others. And because of it their virtue lessened and so their blessings too. This is a death cycle, as the more virtue went missing, the less lifespan and blessings they received, the more greedy they became. Eventually numenor rebelled.
My biggest gripe was why Sauron didn't turn into a vampire and fly away before Numenor became flooded. Was he unfortunate to be on the coast or the port when it happened, or was he in complete shock that Eru Illuvatar himself took action and froze in horror? The truth is that Sauron just laughed at Numenor's downfall and chilled in his temple without any thought of escaping. This is kind of weird for a fallen maiar and dark lord who has valued self-preservation ever since he begged for his life when Huan defeated him.
Personally, I think the frequent contact with Elves was actually a main contributor to Númenor's corruption, not a mitigating factor. The Númenoreans lived long, sure... but they did have to face the dark unknown that is death. And they're constantly hanging out with the only people who don't, who have the GALL to tell them they're 'lucky' to leave their familiar, comfortable paradise, their reward for the suffering of their people. No wonder they grew jealous of the Eldar. If they just stayed in and around their island, at most interacted with 'lesser' Men, maybe they'd have better understood how good they had it. Also, a few thoughts: How is it supposed to be reassuring at all that no one knows where Men go after death? 'Oh, you don't like leaving your comfortable home world for the dark unknown of death? But... it really is unknown!' I swear, these Valar have no clue how to handle Eruhíni... 'No more ships came from Tol Ereseä' - GOOD... is what I would say if it didn't happen awfully late. So, the Valar remembered they're not supposed to harm or kill Men during an invasion of Valinor by Men... after they killed several with lightning and possibly dozens with an earthquake? Also, don't fall for the illusion of 'free will'! The only reason Eä isn't a harmonious place is Eru saw His experiment fail, but went with the first try anyway despite Him and the Ainur having unlimited time and nothing better to do.
Humans dont know that death is actually the best gift of Eru since they arent bound for ever to Arda like the Elves are. The destiny of Arda is the destiny of the elves. They are doomed to see all that they build rise, flourish and die. Men can focus and live in the moment and not in the past and when they die they go live with Eru himself beyond time and space. So unknowingly, their death is the best of gifts. Early Numenorians sort of knew this and were okay with it choosing their time of passing even. When men became arrogant and ambitious due to the increase glory and wealth of Numenor, they began to want to live for ever so their contact with the elves did not really contribute to their corruption, it started by itself and was enhanced by what they knew of the elves. Sad part was that the elves stopped coming to their shores due to the numenorian's eagerness to be like them. So they did not feel tempted.
@@deamongimli Well... not technically wrong, but, if the goal was a harmony, as it seems to have been, then the experiment was a failure - the Ainur failed. The other, non-exclusive explanation is that evil also comes from Eru. In any case, He actively chose to go with a disharmonious reality; there was no real pressing need to.
@@Alejojojo6 I mean, there is absolutely no way for humans to know that. At best, they could be told through Elves (who are not, in fact, universally reliable), who themselves learned from the Ainur (who in turn may not know everything); they may be 'wrong' to be skeptic, but it's hard not to see why they would be. It is said the early Númenoreans were taught directly by the Ainur, who, while commonly (though not necessarily) morons in terms of dealing with Elves and Men, do know their stuff about the metaphysical, so they had a more reliable source, probably helping them be a bit more at ease. Or they just had enough after the Wars of Beleriand, and really did just want to get to relax and then die. But, given that they're mortal (kind of the thing), such memories grow faint. They're perfectly aware what their ancestors did, but that's far removed from their own experiences. They see a pretty great world around them that they would very much like to stay in, and they see all the time the Elves get to do just that. If you want to go that far back, there's the Lay of Aegnor and Andreth, where apparently humanity's fear of death was baked in, even before Morgoth came to corrupt them. Which makes sense. Again, dark unknown. Plus, death separates loved ones. Then Morgoth came along, at first helping them, but then making them more and more dependent, to where they started to wish he never came. Eru, the big guy Himself, then seems to have responded to them fearing death... by shortening their lifespans. That's another thing. Humanity gets a lot of mixed signals from apparently Eru Himself as well as the Valar and their envoys. So, death is at least 'neither reward nor punishment', sometimes even 'the best fate', but shorter lifespans is consistently punishment and longer reward. Why would they not conclude living longer is better? And from that, isn't the logical conclusion that living forever is the best? But, yeah, a fear of death seems to have been baked into humans from the start. Morgoth certainly made mankind more fearful in general, but his corruption isn't what kickstarted the whole thing. Sad how? I reckon the close contact wasn't much more beneficial to the Elves. To the N[úmenoreans, it brought envy, but to the Elves, I imagine it would have brought grief. They would've seen all the mortals die, and their new hosts would rarely be better than the old ones. I think the Elves visited so often for so long in the mistaken belief they were somehow doing the Númenoreans a favour and they were just nice like that. I'm not trying to hate on the Elves, far from it, they didn't mean harm, I'm sure of that... but the weird relation between Elves and Men is just doomed to be dysfunctional. The only occasions we know it really worked out ended with an Elven woman giving up on immortality.
@@JustFlemishMe I literally started my comment saying "Humans dont know" lol. Anyways, some wise and lectured men will know mortality is their gift and they do know it has to mean something good even if it scapes them as inmortality is the gift of elves the other race of Eru (otherwise they would have called mortality a punishment). Men did ask themselves why mortality? And they did get a pseudo-response but this did not pass to all men or stay as common knowledge. The most lectured of them all were the Numenoreans, specially the royal line of the early milenia of Numenor's existence. Thus why we see the old kings of the Island letting themselves die when the time was right. Only Manwe and Mandos really know what happens to humans when they die, but men know mortality is their gift, whatever that might be. It is hinted and told by Tolkien himself (who said mortality was the main theme of his books and that it found him and not viceversa) that men have actually the best gift of them all as they go through space and time to Eru. This is because of Tolkien belief in god and how he explained the nature of human mortality. The Numenorean royals descend from Elros who himself spoke with some of the Ainur and was related to the elves. So why wouldnt they trust him? Exactly that is what is their gift, that they are far removed from the past that was and are not locked in a constant circle of building, glow and destroy as the elves are reminicing the past glories. Men live short lives and thus tend to focus on the right now and although they look to the past they dont live in that, allowing for change and a constant movement forward. Elves live in constant grief, and thus why they crave stillness, and thus yearn for Valinor and Aman because things there dont change and thus they can bear much better the burden of their many years. Even if Sauron was to possess Arda, men eventually will die and that means they will ultimately be free of him sooner or later. The elves however are tied to Arda and if Sauron prevail, they are to be their slaves for ever (Although they could killed themselves and go to the halls of Mandos but well.. Sauron could eventually grow so powerful as to conquer valinor and mandos and then what). Death is no punishment. Simply the men are not able to see it. That's the thing. Numenoreans knew of this but with each generation, they grew greedy and far removed from Elros, the first Edain and the Elves themselves. The reminding of them having to die eventually as it is their gift was diluted as this eagerness and egocentrism erased their humble existence as lecture men. Blinded by their greed, they wanted to be glorious for ever, turning their back to anything that reminded them of their mortality. They grew jealous of the elves because of that, and then thanks to Sauron manipulations. Thus they had conquered everything except death that they saw as a punishment when it isnt (but for them it was because they had to abandonned all their earth possessions, tittles, glories and vanities having forgotten of the reality of death and Eru's gift).
The humans were not simply divided among those who fought with the Valar and those who fought for Morgoth. In fact, the vast majority of humans did not participate in the war between the Elves and Morgoth. The tribes that you mention were the ones that crossed over the Ered Lindon (now known as the Blue Mountains). Most humans did not cross the mountains to enter east Beleriand. That is where they encountered the Elves, who were willing to help the humans, but looked down on them overall. The men who fought for Morgoth were described as Easterlings. It is not clear if these were the same Easterlings who fought against Gondor in the Third Age. However, there are several tribes of men who did not participate in the War of Wrath. The Northmen were Edain who did not cross Ered Lindon into Beleriand. These men are the ancestors of the Rohirrim, the Men of Esgaroth, the Woodsmen of Mirkwood, and the Beornings. The Dunlendings were men who lived in the forests Eriador. They were only discovered by the Numenoreans when the Numenoreans were trying to cut down trees for ships. The Druedain were a simply tribe of men who lived along the White Moutains. You see them in the Return of the King when they guided the Rohirrim to Minas Tirith. Finally, the Hobbits. The Hobbits are of the race of Men. We don't know their origin, but they lived along the Anduin River at the Gladden Fields until they moved over the Misty Mountains into Eriador, settling first in Bree and, eventually, the Shire.
2 місяці тому+7
Jeff bezos should have (and still should) base his GOT LotR off of your research.
It’s still wild to me that the Numenorians didn’t keep worshipping the Valar with utmost revelry when they literally have them their island and everything on it. If Odin descended down from Valhalla to build me a new home you bet your ass I would be worshipping him every day of the week and make sure all my kids would do the same.
In fairness, to us, the story of Númenor is one chapter. In universe, it was 3000 years. As early as, say, the fifth monarch, no one would be alive who would've remembered the origins of Númenor. They kept it up for generations after that, but eventually, other matters just became more pressing.
Tolkien was a Christian so the analogy he intended is with people in the west turning away from God, which has happened in modern times with disastrous consequences.
Numenor was a haven against orcs, food supply that never run out, impossible for orcs to invade as they are bad mariners, that is why saueon want numenoreans of his own
I love the story of Numenor, Tolkien did such great world-building here. Yet I don't like the idea that death is a divine gift; I know this reflects Tolkien's beliefs, but it just doesn't make much sense with what we know of biology today. Death is the breaking down of life; there is nothing divine nor benevolent about death. It would be like people today refusing healthcare because it goes against their religious beliefs, even when this would kill them. I can't connect with this idea that death is somehow good and that the Numenor was wrong in wanting health as good as elves.
In middle earth, death is the passage to a higher form of life beyond this mundane realm. Elves are considered unfortunate to slowly and painfully decay and ultimately be destroyed along with the mundane realm. On the other hand, men have the chance to ascend the mundane world.
@@TehBestPirate I'm sure that is how Tolkien felt, but nowhere in-universe portrays death as some kind of ascention. It is death, and I can't think of a single positive presentation. And even if you were right, the characters in-universe are unaware of any upside to death either.
@@TehBestPirate Except that Tolkien never actually said that. And that's the problem, he never gave a good reason why it should be seen as a gift in his universe. 😅
Wonderful video about a story relevant to the modern era and the current decline of the west and its culture. It is hard to believe in 20 years we went from the Lord of the Rings to the RIngs of Power but this is as good an example as any of this decline. Worship and don't defy God and beware arrogance.
I thought Tolkien stated at one place that Sauron did not bring the one Ring with him when he was taken as "captive", bute he returned without body and did take up his ring again. To be honest I think the fall of Numebor shows, that Eru and the Valar are not really that much better than Morgoth or Sauron. To smash the armies of Numenor while they attack you is one thing, but to destroy the whole island, drowning almost all people alike, men, women, old and young and beyond that also killing countless people in Middle Earth who had nothing to do with the whole thing just because of the waves was mass murder on an epic scale. If that is what Eru had in mind for his children, I guess orphans are better off.
@@Cailus3542 Yes, you are of course right. But to be honest, such aspects in their mythology make the monotheistic gods for me not very appealing either. And in a Fantasy-setting in which the one side claim to be the "good" who stands against the "evil", such things make it very hard to tell which side is worse.
@@marcbartuschka6372 God doesnt see in our scale. when we take out a wasp or hornet hive, do we serve arrest warrants to each? nope. we smoke all. At the end of the day, our behaviour to lesser species are based on convenience, not morality. Do we raise chickens in horrible conditions because we h@te them? no. we do it because they are the cheapest way to profit. Do we protect tigers because we love them? No, we do it because it makes for a better view. If they kill even a single human, their life becomes forfeit.
Umm....The Numenoreans had become pretty nasty. They were practicing human sacrifice at the suggestion of Sauron. They were not innocent. Eru mercifully spared those who were found to be faithful.
It would be cool if there is a TV series that could be set on the Island of Numenor, I mean we had some of it set in the Rings of Power in the 1st season a bit, but I think there could be alot of potential to see a story play out on the isles for a season or two.
It's not that hard if you think about it. Elves are forever bound to Arda,Men on the other hand are allowed to leave it and go somewhere else, better or worse. Elves are forced to see the world wane before their eyes,while Men are more spurred to do remarkable things and live meaningful lives
@@niccologregorutti The problem is that Tolkien never stated exactly what happens to Humans when they die. So unlike Elves, Humans have to bear the burden of seeing themselves, families and friends get old, suffer and die from old age and disease and not being sure what happens to them after they pass away. They would never live long enough to truly enjoy the fruits of their labor. 😏
@@ohlawd3699 that is true as well,I think it really comes down to them trusting Iluvatar or not. The Valar cared little about Men,they didn't really interact with them at all,if they had perhaps Men would have been more open to accept the idea of dying and leaving their affections on Arda to be reunited with them in the afterlife. Elves often blame Men for their treachery,but the Valar are just as responsible for neglecting them
For me, the 3 houses of the Edain who served Fingolfin and the Noldor during the first age are the best men who have ever stepped foot in Middle Earth.
I don't think that the Valar, being Ainur, would view an increased lifespan as an inherent benefit. Rather, I think it's more of a side-effect of all the other stat boosts they gave the Edain after the War of Wrath. I only mention it because I think this is linked to Tolkien's belief and concept of death and the eternal.
I hope another reason why you uploaded this video the same day Rings of Power s2 came out is to make a stand against the travesty done to Tolkien's work.
Just as a small critique of an otherwise amazing video on the history of arda in the last 20 minutes of the video regarding the downfall of numenor there are scenes with strobing white animations that are to be reminiscent of the flash of lightning, this kind of flashing light could potentially cause people with epilepsy to have seizures, That may want to be addressed. Otherwise its a great vid.
@@bmabs35 The peoples of middle earth too. It's there where the ceremonial practice of "dancing bears" and their love for equestrian games were mentioned. Folks were not allowed to laugh at the bears as they would maul their handlers.
I’m just here thinking about how fool it was that the Numenorians were given so many gifts over normal men. Even to the point of making women give birth easier 😂
@DaG.O.A.T The RoP isn't supposed to be "realistic", its a fantasy series. Its an awful show that completely disregards and disrespects the author's works. The books are absolutely amazing. RoP is an abomination.
I'm being very simple here. If the Numinorians weren't weren't so set in their ways, e.i, their power, and not changing, they failed. Hmm sounds like real life 😂
Why do I get the feeling the Numenoreans were destined to meet a bad anyway, and Sauron coming in later just hastened the inevitable? The Numenoreans also wouldn’t have begged for that immortality had they known most of it would be spent stuck in the dreary bureaucracy that is the Halls of Mandos.
I dont think they would have the courage to attack the Valar. Even after Sauron used his ring and deception to dominate their minds and wills for decades they still fall to their faces in fear by seeing some eagle shaped lightning storm and it required for Sauron to pull a god-like display of power to keep their morale up. Without Sauron they wouldnt be so mindless and fool to actually believe that they had any means of victory against the Lords of the West.
@@myriadmediamusings I dont think they would have the courage to attack the Valar. Even after Sauron used his ring and deception to dominate their minds and wills for decades they still fall to their faces in fear by seeing some eagle shaped lightning storm and it required for Sauron to pull a god-like display of power to keep their morale up. Without Sauron they wouldnt be so mindless and fool to actually believe that they had any means of victory against the Lords of the West.
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Will the Ember War Saga by Richard Fox be covered sometime in the future?
Turns out there’s no pleasing some people. You can have a paradise island to live on, Extended lifespans, magical gifts from elves and a nice white tree. But still it’s not enough.
The wars of Beleriand and the destruction of Melkor were due to the Elves. The sacrifices of the humans contributed greatly to Melkor's defeat, but they were rewarded with an island and a half-blood elf king. Even the royal titles were elvish. While the pointy-eared were enjoying all the blessings, humanity's duty was at best to die of old age. Hail to the Kimgsmen
Sounds a lot like modern human society.
Morgoth planted the seeds. He decieved humanity that the death is horrible thing and not a road to the after life. The fear turned into the greed of immortality.
@@rikuvakevainen6157 Nonsense, shall we not accept the injustice of Elves being immortal and mortal people just because Melkor or Sauron expressed it? Are we going to take out one of our eyes just because orcs have two eyes?
@@rikuvakevainen6157 and Melkor perceived the strife within the Noldor, and sowed the seeds of hatred. The reason humanity began to rebel against this injustice has nothing to do with Melkor or Sauron.
The fact that you released this video on the same day Rings of Power Season 2 launches can't be mere coincidence.
Yeah I thought it will be sponsored
Hopefully it's to show how trash the show is
It's just capitalising on media interest.
It's a smart move.@@Mrdarkrai
@@kp-legacy-5477right? Seems like a basic concept lol
At least this way we can get some decent Middle Earth material in that day.
Turns out their days weren’t as Numenorous as they hoped
I sea what you did there.
I love you, thank you for existing ❤😂
DAD! You promised you wouldn't post on my friend's videos!!!
*The Office "No" meme intensifies*
Touché😂😂😂😂😂😂
this was an epic video...really feel for Tar-Palantir ...working really hard to correct corrotion of many years.
This video is better than Rings of Power could ever hope to be.
That thing is still on? How much money is Bezos willing to burn.
Just watched episode one of season two good Lord is it dreadful. Whoever is in charge is a moron.
RoP is but a mere footnote best forgotten, lets hope it disappears soon.
The author knows the gift to its race
Your childhood is gone and never coming back either way
Great timing with this, haha. Clearly deliberate.
I think this'll be a great video to watch.
it will be better than Rings of Power could ever hope to be.
@@HansWurst1569 New season started?
@@michaellandon8901 Yeah
@@michaellandon8901 friday I think? I saw a commercial at a trainstation
@@michaellandon8901if your a true Tolkien fan no need to watch, just one opinion.
I was more excited about this video than the entirety of Rings of Power season 2
Over an hour 👀 you're really spoiling us. It's weirdly refreshing seeing that the grandfather of modern fantasy wasn't just a "Elves are always better" kind of guy. The Numenoreans are absolutely key to defeating Sauron, and the Elves aren't made to seem lesser for needing their help. I think you left out the most best part of the story though. The image of Tar-Miriel ascending Meneltarma alone as the waves swallowed her is one of the most powerful in all of Tolkien's work, and it's a shame you didn't put it to screen.
Over all though, a great video. I learned things I didn't even know from this, which is saying something. Honestly the story of Numenor is a really good example of "democratic" (it's a monarchy but still) backsliding, and how norms need institutions to support them, and institutions need people. Though some of it is a bit rough to listen to, like the "downfall" of Numenor coincides with the decision to allow women to rule.
Numenor fell because Sauron whispered sweet nothings into Mens ears that they took into their heart's because he convinced them to abandon God and embrace pride thats why they fell not because a women took the throne thats like such a logical jump it makes me think that the video worded something weird because she had little power and her husband ruled hes the one who plunged (pun intended) Numenor to it's doom she had no way to stop as Sauron had already got the people in the palm of his hands she is presented as a good person robbed of the opportunity she was born for and watch as it was destroyed in front of her.
Almost like women ruling as a norm is detrimental to society and that was one of the messages Tolkien is trying to tell us. Can easily be seen in todays society with all these modern women “leaders”
Interesting how society’s tend to crumble quickly after women gain power to rule. Totally not analogous to today at all. Can’t imagine what Tolkien was trying to tell us
@@melkormorgothbauglir.4848yes, the queen was not at fault.
I don’t think it’s mere coincidence that after women were given significant positions of political power that things began to backslide for Númenor. Though do not mistake me, I still do not lie the blame on the Númenorean women. I believe the catalyst event occurred due to the one Númenorean King who couldn’t keep his ass at home and was constantly away sailing and exploring. He never sired a son and cared little for ruling (he just wanted to sail and explore) so he changed the understood and accepted practice of succession so he could give it to his daughter instead of the next of kin whom was a man.
Finally, a worthy video to eat to
MY MEAL WILL BE LEGENDARY!
Haha, that's my routine exactly 😉😋🤘🏼
Real
Is this the same dude from the Kings and Generals channel? If so, I am stoked that the Fantasy genre is about to get the royal treatment!
fantastic production - excellent narrator!
Thanks for bringing this to life.
This has to be one of your best videos, I really look forward to more
For Mankind, Paradise without immortality is Hell.
@@v1e1r1g1e1 by definition of the word it cant be. If anything it would just be normal life.
@@HansWurst1569 I'm not sure what word you're referring to. If you're referring to ''paradise'', the original meaning of the word was simply 'garden'.... alluding to the Garden Of Eden. My comment is an hyperbole; a summary of the condition I believe the Numenorians began to realise. Being so close to Eldamar (to their west), but still living in a land (Numenor) so evidently a land of mortality, the blessings of long life and prosperity began to undermine the original 'blessing' that Eru had bestowed.
Tolkien is experimenting with the age-old problem of the Human condition with the mortals of his Middle Earth. We are not able to find any true peace and happiness in our lives. The more prosperous we are, the more we wish our days to continue. That we know they will not, is like having a day of perfect health, surrounded by ones loved ones in a place of peace of and pleasure... only to know that one is going to be executed that very afternoon. Whatever pleasure there might be is ruined by the knowledge of impending death.
On the other hand, the more miserable we are, the more we hope that there is a life hereafter where such miseries are washed away and we may know the peace and felicity that Tolkien's elves in Eldamar seem to enjoy. Here is where Tolkien lapsed in his sub-creation. He did not offer any clarity as to what happens after death to his Middle Earth mortals.
Gandalf, at one point, comforts a hobbit with a picture of the dead one's souls travelling across 'the sea' until it reaches a kind of Heaven. In his legendarium, that 'heaven' is, it seems clear enough, Eldamar. But Tolkien had made it abundantly clear that Eldamar was not for Humans (including Hobbits).
We either hold to a promise of a Heaven (and Tolkien, as a good Catholic would do so), or else we resign ourselves to our lives such as they are and do our best to make them as good as they can be. But Tolkien did not do the former position for his Middle Earth mortals, and so the latter position (making the best of things while they last) is all there is.
So... without a clear vision and promise of a blessed life hereafter, for us as well as Middle Earth mortals, life in Paradise without the promise of mortality is sheer torture.
I never knew that the Druidain came to Numenor! You guys know so much!
Yes and they soon began to leave the moment sauron stepped into that shore.
Are they related to the Dunedain? I remember Eowyn mentioning that Aragorn was one of them. Considering they left Numenor shortly after Sauron's arrival, it wouldn't surprise me if the Druidain then became the Dunedain.
@@user-bz9of6tn6l No. The druedain were a completely different race of men both in stature, history, religion, and speech.The dunedain were descendants of the faithful numenoreans. Unlike the dunedain, the druedain were animistic and mostly matriarchal -And they wear only loincloths and love stone carvings which they believed houses the spirit of their ancestors.
@@richmondlandersenfells2238 Ah, OK. It's been a while since I read The Silmarillion, so I couldn't remember them. Thanks for the reminder.
@@user-bz9of6tn6l you're welcome!And In case you're wondering, the druedain were invited to settle in Numenor for their assistance in defeating morgoth's army during the battle of wrath in beleriand. BIG SHOCK for me but it was better than living in persecution in middle earth.
It is a travesty that this channel does not have milions of subscribers. I love your content, thank you very much for you work guys!
Absolutely amazing video! It really feels like I’m watching an animated movie. I love the animation and style of your videos and can’t wait for more about middle earth!
Hopefully we can get a whole second age video similar to your 2 two hour long videos about the first age!
Terrific stuff loved this Numenor series
The irony was that men were the truly immortal ones. Elves would only last as long as middle earth
The tale of Numenor is one that angered me. But I suppose accepting the mortality that all men are cursed or gifted with is part of life. It is never easy.
To be fair, being tied to the date of a world declining in magic and beauty is not necessarily a good thing either.
@@brokensky2378 If anything, it's worse. Imagine having to live hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years until the world ends. Sounds exhausting.
Hence why it is written that even the Valar will one day come to envy the gift of Men: death.
Thanks for this video! Your channel is premium, trusted, lore for me.
Thank you so much!
I mean, I can't really blame the Numenorians. Think that men were given the gift of spiritual ascension... while being denied any ability to actually understand or interact with that upper world until they are dead. Similarly, the elves were granted great spiritual wisdom and knowledge... yet remain completely tethered to the physical world.
In this way, it almost seemed as if Eru Ilúvatar wanted his children to come to envy each other.
I know right? This could have easily been solved by having the numenoreans explained WHY it is like that.
@@HansWurst1569 it is a test, mortality teaches men to put aside themselves in service to that which is greater than them out of love and grace and in so doing they are proven to be fit to create the new world with Eru at the end of time and willingly relinquish the old world to create something greater.
@@thescarletpumpernel3305 Ya but cmon, not even ONE elf could explain the numenoreans this concept? Not even the good ones understood it and they just took it as a leap of faith. I mean its not bad writing as it took a VERY long time to erode their believes but still it seems like a bit of a plot device no? (Im not a hater, just looking at the story from an outside persective!!)
@@HansWurst1569 not really imo, its the same with real life religions, most erode over time regardless of how easy their concepts are to understand or how strong the belief of the first generations were.
@@HansWurst1569 I think Elves don't understand death like men
I've realised the views aren't much on the Stormlight videos as compared to the rest but can you please keep making them. I know it's kinda selfish to ask😅
It was a bit hypocritical of the Valar to reward the men of Numenor with prolonged life spans, while also insisting that their mortality was a gift. If mortality is a gift, why is it considered a reward to have your life span lengthened? I wouldn't be surprised if the Numenoreans percieved this double-standard, and if this was the seed of their eventual corruption
It was gift directly from eru
Don't think they themselves understand it
@@Alex-pb6mx It is a part of the lore, that only Eru knows the "final destiny of men", and that elves or even Valar cannot really understand the purpose of "the gift of mortality".
But my point was that the Men didn't understand this purpose either. And by being gifted longevity, resistance to decease and other gifts which made them "a bit more like elves but not quite", it probably contributed to them thinking that this mortality business wasn't all it was made out to be. Like I said "If mortality is so great, why do the Valar prolong our life spans?"
We also often see that the Valar are not always perfect. They are reluctant to intervene in Middle Earth out of fear of harming the peoples of the world. They love their "children" almost to a fault (see the discussion between Yavanna and Aulë about ents and dwarves). They want to provide for their beloved "lesser races" in the way they themselves think best!
I think it would be totally in their character to be so blinded by love for the Numenoreans, that they just showered them with gifts the Valar considered great, without thinking who the recipients were.
@@Uberdude6666The valar loves the world. Just like how Yavanna made ents to counter the dwarves to protect the forest. The extended lifespan was just the icing on the cake. Men are not made to be immortal. At a certain point our spirit will just grew tired.
The reason why numenor became so advanced was because they were not immortal. Granting them immortality will made them bare the curse of the elves. Bounded to the world and want nothing to change.
The reason it’s a gift is by having a limited time, the men can do great things and pursue them. Unlike the elves who just want to live in peace and happiness forever, meaning they don’t want the world to change. The men always seeks to improve themselves and their children lives.
That’s why humans can always advances, our hope that our children can live greater lives than our own. Planting the seeds so our descendants can enjoy the trees. If we live forever, we would never think to do that.
We would also lose all sense of urgency, or have urgency at all. We would no longer have great innovations. That’s why it’s a gift of mortality. Humans live are much more colorful and when it’s time we pass on. The men in arda pass and live with Eru. While the elves are bounded in the world and their spirits return to Mandos in Valinor.
@@mks2042 Beautifully explained! That is truly the essence of the "gift of mortality".s
Not trying to "retcon my mistake" or anyhting, but I sort of already knew that. Though I could never explain it as well as you! Do you mind if I quoute you on that when writing LotR-fanfiction...? If so, what you want me to refer to you as? (yes its serious question, if you don't care about being quoted just say so :) )
I was just trying to understand how the Numenoreans came to view it. I get that, like all privileged people, the Numenoreans just wanted more privileges. I am just curious about what the situation looked like from their point of view. That is what I mean by "the gift of mortality" maybe looked kind of hypocritical to their eyes.
Based on your explanation, I am sure the Illuvatar's "rationale" is something like this: Gift of mortality=the feeling that you got to do what you can, with the limited time you got. THe whole point is that you have to leave the table while "still feeling hungry" for life.
Numenoreans, then, get to be "super-men"(literally).They get to sit at the table, enjoying the feast, a good chunk longer than middle-men.
To try a silly metaphor: Middle-men's life span is, like, a standard dinner at a restaurant. The food is okay, but the staff is kind of in a hurry, there's a lot of noise and they are kind of rushed out of the restaurant when they are done, to make room for more guests. Low-key, people are kind of glad when its over, though what they really wished was to just get nice food and be able to enjoy it in peace.
The numenoreans basically get the VIP-pass, where they can really savour their delicious 12-course meal throughout the whole evening. They get to eat until they are full, a wide choice of deserts and even after that they probably just sit around for hours, talking while having drinks and coffee/tea. Finally, when they can eat and drink no more, they call it a night and go home happy.
@@Uberdude6666 that’s fine if you want to quote me, I like reading fanfics of lotr, just tell me the title and website. I dont really need the credit, it’s free to use.
Just like you said at first the numenorean are supposed to have all the joy of mortality until they are satisfied enough to lay down their lives. In the early days of numenor most of them lay down their lives willingly because they are satisfied already. In numenor they can’t have sickness, war, and plenty of resources. After tasted heaven for 300+ years, they grew bored and satisfied so they give up their lives willingly.
However, that changed when they made contact in middle earth. That’s when they realized that they are better than all other men in middle earth. At first, they are still kind and teach the middle-men (men in ME) all kinds of virtues. But this all changed when they fight Sauron. They realized that the elves struggled against Sauron but they managed to defeat Sauron three times easily.
Essentially after this they realized not only they are greater than the rest of men. They are unchallenged in ME. After the king dies, his heir tar ciryatan became ambitious. He is greedy, though he led numenor to be richer, he started collecting taxes and tributes in ME. That’s when numenorean became from teachers and guides to dominator and lords.
After dominating, they feel power, and power corrupts. That’s why they became greedy for live. They enjoy being superior to all others. And because of it their virtue lessened and so their blessings too. This is a death cycle, as the more virtue went missing, the less lifespan and blessings they received, the more greedy they became. Eventually numenor rebelled.
Wonderful video. Looking at the length I knew it was a collection of older content, and was mind blown when it flew like new content.
Full second age video coming soon, much like the First and Third Age videos? 🥺
Long have I awaited this video. 😀
Very good work...
Imagine all the amazing videos K&G could make if they had a budget of 1B dollars.
Yeah don't make Sauron your Grand Vizier, Pharry.
PHARRY
My biggest gripe was why Sauron didn't turn into a vampire and fly away before Numenor became flooded. Was he unfortunate to be on the coast or the port when it happened, or was he in complete shock that Eru Illuvatar himself took action and froze in horror? The truth is that Sauron just laughed at Numenor's downfall and chilled in his temple without any thought of escaping. This is kind of weird for a fallen maiar and dark lord who has valued self-preservation ever since he begged for his life when Huan defeated him.
Informative and enjoyable
It's a great fantasy retelling of the myth of Atlantis.
Imma save this for tonight!
Thank you
Personally, I think the frequent contact with Elves was actually a main contributor to Númenor's corruption, not a mitigating factor. The Númenoreans lived long, sure... but they did have to face the dark unknown that is death. And they're constantly hanging out with the only people who don't, who have the GALL to tell them they're 'lucky' to leave their familiar, comfortable paradise, their reward for the suffering of their people. No wonder they grew jealous of the Eldar. If they just stayed in and around their island, at most interacted with 'lesser' Men, maybe they'd have better understood how good they had it.
Also, a few thoughts:
How is it supposed to be reassuring at all that no one knows where Men go after death? 'Oh, you don't like leaving your comfortable home world for the dark unknown of death? But... it really is unknown!' I swear, these Valar have no clue how to handle Eruhíni...
'No more ships came from Tol Ereseä' - GOOD... is what I would say if it didn't happen awfully late.
So, the Valar remembered they're not supposed to harm or kill Men during an invasion of Valinor by Men... after they killed several with lightning and possibly dozens with an earthquake?
Also, don't fall for the illusion of 'free will'! The only reason Eä isn't a harmonious place is Eru saw His experiment fail, but went with the first try anyway despite Him and the Ainur having unlimited time and nothing better to do.
Eru did not fail. For all that Melkor and all the other Ainur were was of Eru, and thus all that they did was a part of his design.
Humans dont know that death is actually the best gift of Eru since they arent bound for ever to Arda like the Elves are. The destiny of Arda is the destiny of the elves. They are doomed to see all that they build rise, flourish and die. Men can focus and live in the moment and not in the past and when they die they go live with Eru himself beyond time and space. So unknowingly, their death is the best of gifts. Early Numenorians sort of knew this and were okay with it choosing their time of passing even. When men became arrogant and ambitious due to the increase glory and wealth of Numenor, they began to want to live for ever so their contact with the elves did not really contribute to their corruption, it started by itself and was enhanced by what they knew of the elves. Sad part was that the elves stopped coming to their shores due to the numenorian's eagerness to be like them. So they did not feel tempted.
@@deamongimli Well... not technically wrong, but, if the goal was a harmony, as it seems to have been, then the experiment was a failure - the Ainur failed. The other, non-exclusive explanation is that evil also comes from Eru. In any case, He actively chose to go with a disharmonious reality; there was no real pressing need to.
@@Alejojojo6 I mean, there is absolutely no way for humans to know that. At best, they could be told through Elves (who are not, in fact, universally reliable), who themselves learned from the Ainur (who in turn may not know everything); they may be 'wrong' to be skeptic, but it's hard not to see why they would be.
It is said the early Númenoreans were taught directly by the Ainur, who, while commonly (though not necessarily) morons in terms of dealing with Elves and Men, do know their stuff about the metaphysical, so they had a more reliable source, probably helping them be a bit more at ease. Or they just had enough after the Wars of Beleriand, and really did just want to get to relax and then die. But, given that they're mortal (kind of the thing), such memories grow faint. They're perfectly aware what their ancestors did, but that's far removed from their own experiences. They see a pretty great world around them that they would very much like to stay in, and they see all the time the Elves get to do just that.
If you want to go that far back, there's the Lay of Aegnor and Andreth, where apparently humanity's fear of death was baked in, even before Morgoth came to corrupt them. Which makes sense. Again, dark unknown. Plus, death separates loved ones. Then Morgoth came along, at first helping them, but then making them more and more dependent, to where they started to wish he never came. Eru, the big guy Himself, then seems to have responded to them fearing death... by shortening their lifespans.
That's another thing. Humanity gets a lot of mixed signals from apparently Eru Himself as well as the Valar and their envoys. So, death is at least 'neither reward nor punishment', sometimes even 'the best fate', but shorter lifespans is consistently punishment and longer reward. Why would they not conclude living longer is better? And from that, isn't the logical conclusion that living forever is the best?
But, yeah, a fear of death seems to have been baked into humans from the start. Morgoth certainly made mankind more fearful in general, but his corruption isn't what kickstarted the whole thing.
Sad how? I reckon the close contact wasn't much more beneficial to the Elves. To the N[úmenoreans, it brought envy, but to the Elves, I imagine it would have brought grief. They would've seen all the mortals die, and their new hosts would rarely be better than the old ones. I think the Elves visited so often for so long in the mistaken belief they were somehow doing the Númenoreans a favour and they were just nice like that. I'm not trying to hate on the Elves, far from it, they didn't mean harm, I'm sure of that... but the weird relation between Elves and Men is just doomed to be dysfunctional. The only occasions we know it really worked out ended with an Elven woman giving up on immortality.
@@JustFlemishMe I literally started my comment saying "Humans dont know" lol. Anyways, some wise and lectured men will know mortality is their gift and they do know it has to mean something good even if it scapes them as inmortality is the gift of elves the other race of Eru (otherwise they would have called mortality a punishment). Men did ask themselves why mortality? And they did get a pseudo-response but this did not pass to all men or stay as common knowledge. The most lectured of them all were the Numenoreans, specially the royal line of the early milenia of Numenor's existence. Thus why we see the old kings of the Island letting themselves die when the time was right.
Only Manwe and Mandos really know what happens to humans when they die, but men know mortality is their gift, whatever that might be. It is hinted and told by Tolkien himself (who said mortality was the main theme of his books and that it found him and not viceversa) that men have actually the best gift of them all as they go through space and time to Eru. This is because of Tolkien belief in god and how he explained the nature of human mortality.
The Numenorean royals descend from Elros who himself spoke with some of the Ainur and was related to the elves. So why wouldnt they trust him?
Exactly that is what is their gift, that they are far removed from the past that was and are not locked in a constant circle of building, glow and destroy as the elves are reminicing the past glories. Men live short lives and thus tend to focus on the right now and although they look to the past they dont live in that, allowing for change and a constant movement forward. Elves live in constant grief, and thus why they crave stillness, and thus yearn for Valinor and Aman because things there dont change and thus they can bear much better the burden of their many years. Even if Sauron was to possess Arda, men eventually will die and that means they will ultimately be free of him sooner or later. The elves however are tied to Arda and if Sauron prevail, they are to be their slaves for ever (Although they could killed themselves and go to the halls of Mandos but well.. Sauron could eventually grow so powerful as to conquer valinor and mandos and then what).
Death is no punishment. Simply the men are not able to see it. That's the thing. Numenoreans knew of this but with each generation, they grew greedy and far removed from Elros, the first Edain and the Elves themselves. The reminding of them having to die eventually as it is their gift was diluted as this eagerness and egocentrism erased their humble existence as lecture men. Blinded by their greed, they wanted to be glorious for ever, turning their back to anything that reminded them of their mortality. They grew jealous of the elves because of that, and then thanks to Sauron manipulations. Thus they had conquered everything except death that they saw as a punishment when it isnt (but for them it was because they had to abandonned all their earth possessions, tittles, glories and vanities having forgotten of the reality of death and Eru's gift).
They had such nobility, beauty, and majesty only to be lead astray.
Great video as always ! lore on high level! 💯🔥✨
The humans were not simply divided among those who fought with the Valar and those who fought for Morgoth. In fact, the vast majority of humans did not participate in the war between the Elves and Morgoth. The tribes that you mention were the ones that crossed over the Ered Lindon (now known as the Blue Mountains). Most humans did not cross the mountains to enter east Beleriand. That is where they encountered the Elves, who were willing to help the humans, but looked down on them overall.
The men who fought for Morgoth were described as Easterlings. It is not clear if these were the same Easterlings who fought against Gondor in the Third Age.
However, there are several tribes of men who did not participate in the War of Wrath. The Northmen were Edain who did not cross Ered Lindon into Beleriand. These men are the ancestors of the Rohirrim, the Men of Esgaroth, the Woodsmen of Mirkwood, and the Beornings. The Dunlendings were men who lived in the forests Eriador. They were only discovered by the Numenoreans when the Numenoreans were trying to cut down trees for ships. The Druedain were a simply tribe of men who lived along the White Moutains. You see them in the Return of the King when they guided the Rohirrim to Minas Tirith. Finally, the Hobbits. The Hobbits are of the race of Men. We don't know their origin, but they lived along the Anduin River at the Gladden Fields until they moved over the Misty Mountains into Eriador, settling first in Bree and, eventually, the Shire.
Jeff bezos should have (and still should) base his GOT LotR off of your research.
It’s still wild to me that the Numenorians didn’t keep worshipping the Valar with utmost revelry when they literally have them their island and everything on it. If Odin descended down from Valhalla to build me a new home you bet your ass I would be worshipping him every day of the week and make sure all my kids would do the same.
In fairness, to us, the story of Númenor is one chapter. In universe, it was 3000 years. As early as, say, the fifth monarch, no one would be alive who would've remembered the origins of Númenor. They kept it up for generations after that, but eventually, other matters just became more pressing.
Tolkien was a Christian so the analogy he intended is with people in the west turning away from God, which has happened in modern times with disastrous consequences.
Numenor was a haven against orcs, food supply that never run out, impossible for orcs to invade as they are bad mariners, that is why saueon want numenoreans of his own
But then later down your line they will grow complacent and would want bigger better houses and would resent Odin for not giving them more
Top work guys, I'm only quarter of the way through :)
Thank you for the content.
I love the story of Numenor, Tolkien did such great world-building here. Yet I don't like the idea that death is a divine gift; I know this reflects Tolkien's beliefs, but it just doesn't make much sense with what we know of biology today. Death is the breaking down of life; there is nothing divine nor benevolent about death. It would be like people today refusing healthcare because it goes against their religious beliefs, even when this would kill them. I can't connect with this idea that death is somehow good and that the Numenor was wrong in wanting health as good as elves.
In middle earth, death is the passage to a higher form of life beyond this mundane realm. Elves are considered unfortunate to slowly and painfully decay and ultimately be destroyed along with the mundane realm. On the other hand, men have the chance to ascend the mundane world.
@@TehBestPirate I'm sure that is how Tolkien felt, but nowhere in-universe portrays death as some kind of ascention. It is death, and I can't think of a single positive presentation. And even if you were right, the characters in-universe are unaware of any upside to death either.
@@TehBestPirate
Except that Tolkien never actually said that. And that's the problem, he never gave a good reason why it should be seen as a gift in his universe. 😅
Wonderful video about a story relevant to the modern era and the current decline of the west and its culture. It is hard to believe in 20 years we went from the Lord of the Rings to the RIngs of Power but this is as good an example as any of this decline. Worship and don't defy God and beware arrogance.
GREAT video!
I thought Tolkien stated at one place that Sauron did not bring the one Ring with him when he was taken as "captive", bute he returned without body and did take up his ring again.
To be honest I think the fall of Numebor shows, that Eru and the Valar are not really that much better than Morgoth or Sauron. To smash the armies of Numenor while they attack you is one thing, but to destroy the whole island, drowning almost all people alike, men, women, old and young and beyond that also killing countless people in Middle Earth who had nothing to do with the whole thing just because of the waves was mass murder on an epic scale. If that is what Eru had in mind for his children, I guess orphans are better off.
As much as Tolkien disliked allegory, this is classic Old Testament stuff.
@@Cailus3542 Yes, you are of course right. But to be honest, such aspects in their mythology make the monotheistic gods for me not very appealing either. And in a Fantasy-setting in which the one side claim to be the "good" who stands against the "evil", such things make it very hard to tell which side is worse.
@@marcbartuschka6372 God doesnt see in our scale. when we take out a wasp or hornet hive, do we serve arrest warrants to each? nope. we smoke all. At the end of the day, our behaviour to lesser species are based on convenience, not morality. Do we raise chickens in horrible conditions because we h@te them? no. we do it because they are the cheapest way to profit. Do we protect tigers because we love them? No, we do it because it makes for a better view. If they kill even a single human, their life becomes forfeit.
OK Morgoth 😂
Umm....The Numenoreans had become pretty nasty. They were practicing human sacrifice at the suggestion of Sauron. They were not innocent. Eru mercifully spared those who were found to be faithful.
I mean they had a good run tbh, no human empire in real life survived that long while retaining all that power and all those riches till the end.
Rings of power wasted so many things, the show couldve showed the power and greatness of Numenor
Will you make a video about Helm Hammerhand?
It would be cool if there is a TV series that could be set on the Island of Numenor, I mean we had some of it set in the Rings of Power in the 1st season a bit, but I think there could be alot of potential to see a story play out on the isles for a season or two.
Please do a video on Anbennar, it's one of the coolest fantasy/DnD settings out there
Okay, what is the music play at 57:16 i have to breathe it into my soul plz. I must know.
And great vid as usual, thank you.
Just do a second age video that counters every thing in the Amazon shitepile.
Eru: YOU WANNA KNOW HOW I WEAVE THIS INTO THE SONG?!!
I CALL IT ROCK AND ROLL
THE FACT BEING YOU ARE THE ROCK AND I MAKE YOU ROLL OVER!!!
tbh, i always liked the version of the legendarium where the fleet was imagined as ironclad. that's the canon version in my head
I'll just say that you'll need to do a lot of mental gymnastics to accept mortality as being a "gift" in the LOTR universe, lol. 😂
It's not that hard if you think about it. Elves are forever bound to Arda,Men on the other hand are allowed to leave it and go somewhere else, better or worse. Elves are forced to see the world wane before their eyes,while Men are more spurred to do remarkable things and live meaningful lives
@@niccologregorutti
The problem is that Tolkien never stated exactly what happens to Humans when they die. So unlike Elves, Humans have to bear the burden of seeing themselves, families and friends get old, suffer and die from old age and disease and not being sure what happens to them after they pass away. They would never live long enough to truly enjoy the fruits of their labor. 😏
@@ohlawd3699 that is true as well,I think it really comes down to them trusting Iluvatar or not. The Valar cared little about Men,they didn't really interact with them at all,if they had perhaps Men would have been more open to accept the idea of dying and leaving their affections on Arda to be reunited with them in the afterlife. Elves often blame Men for their treachery,but the Valar are just as responsible for neglecting them
UA-cam does a better job retelling the story of Numenor than Rings of Power. Only paid critics are praising that dumpster fire
I feel like Wizards and Warriors is making a point when mentioning how Tar-Minastir was the king of Numenor when the rings of power where forged
For me, the 3 houses of the Edain who served Fingolfin and the Noldor during the first age are the best men who have ever stepped foot in Middle Earth.
I remember when this happened, very tragic.
Do one on the battle of Jamestown for all mankind
Please include some measurement also with the metric system
love the idea of the bear dance, the ebars up to 50 in numbers dancing away with joy in their hearts
When you become so prosperous that you really have nothing to do but to figut among yourselvez
I don't think that the Valar, being Ainur, would view an increased lifespan as an inherent benefit. Rather, I think it's more of a side-effect of all the other stat boosts they gave the Edain after the War of Wrath. I only mention it because I think this is linked to Tolkien's belief and concept of death and the eternal.
The Rings Of Power series done them so dirty
The Golden Age of Men
Guys, since we're in the seventh age of Middle Earth, it means it was actually Numenor, not 'Atlantis' that sunk.
Wow so RoP is nothing like this…
Okay so if saurons body was drowned at numenor island at 1:18:00 how did he obtained ring back?
Yeah, that's what I was wondering.
So I just looked into it and apparently Sauron left the Ring in Mordor when he was taken to Numenor.
@@DavidM_10 but they show here that he has his ring on his figner while drowning. its confusing as hell.
but thanks mate
@@TheWinty I know. The illustration must be incorrect. No problem.
I hope another reason why you uploaded this video the same day Rings of Power s2 came out is to make a stand against the travesty done to Tolkien's work.
All Great Empires come to an end
The space marine of arda.
Even seafaring nations shouls develop decent carts and roads. Those are not mutually exclusive.
Using the RoP Adunaim ships as the Great Armament ships only to be wrecked by Eru Illuvatar is kekworthy.
To watch this or the fall of sparta one before bed, decisions
Just as a small critique of an otherwise amazing video on the history of arda in the last 20 minutes of the video regarding the downfall of numenor there are scenes with strobing white animations that are to be reminiscent of the flash of lightning, this kind of flashing light could potentially cause people with epilepsy to have seizures, That may want to be addressed. Otherwise its a great vid.
Who else tried to watch ep 1 of rop season 2 but ditched it.
When they said they released more LOTR I didnt know they were talking about Wizards and Warriors! ... ... ... Huh? What's Rings of Power?
You don’t mine steel. It’s an alloy so I think smelt would be the correct verb.
no, you make steel. smelting is jsut extracting what you've mined.
Actually you forge steel.😊@@anonymouslyopinionated656
Numenorian marine infantry were fully on par with Gerka’s now that’s insane that would make them SO deadly, like 1v10 easily deadly 😂
ah my favorite kingdom ^^, lets go"
where is information about Numenor coming from, what are your sources?
Unfinished Tales, the Silmarillion and probably the appendices of the Lord of the Rings
@@bmabs35 The peoples of middle earth too. It's there where the ceremonial practice of "dancing bears" and their love for equestrian games were mentioned.
Folks were not allowed to laugh at the bears as they would maul their handlers.
Seems like a cool place. Almost makes me wanna become a dark lord and sow chaos there and let it sink…
ROP writers looking at this and going "Wth is this nerdy crap".
27:47 lover of a man?! which man? any man! _JC
They live longer than dwarf
I’m just here thinking about how fool it was that the Numenorians were given so many gifts over normal men. Even to the point of making women give birth easier 😂
They should have just given them the choice of immortality like those born half elvish.
@@drrohanjacob i agree. It would have made sense too, they’re getting ALL these insane boons so why not get that as well
@@Jacksonmoonstar1714 Yup
But I thought Galadriel ruled numenor for 10 million years and was also known to swim across the Atlantic with ease
No Hue in Man, Man.
Minor criticism: it's Adunaic, not Andunaic.
Rings of Power series mocks canon :/
I disagree. It makes it look more realistic. The series does books make series look too fantasy and too chaotic
@@DaG.O.A.T. Yeah, elves stealing Numenorians jobs are very realistic 😂
@@DaG.O.A.T. it doesn’t matter it’s Tolkien’s story and should be played out how Tolkien wanted good or bad
@DaG.O.A.T The RoP isn't supposed to be "realistic", its a fantasy series. Its an awful show that completely disregards and disrespects the author's works. The books are absolutely amazing. RoP is an abomination.
I'm being very simple here. If the Numinorians weren't weren't so set in their ways, e.i, their power, and not changing, they failed. Hmm sounds like real life 😂
Why do I get the feeling the Numenoreans were destined to meet a bad anyway, and Sauron coming in later just hastened the inevitable?
The Numenoreans also wouldn’t have begged for that immortality had they known most of it would be spent stuck in the dreary bureaucracy that is the Halls of Mandos.
I dont think they would have the courage to attack the Valar. Even after Sauron used his ring and deception to dominate their minds and wills for decades they still fall to their faces in fear by seeing some eagle shaped lightning storm and it required for Sauron to pull a god-like display of power to keep their morale up. Without Sauron they wouldnt be so mindless and fool to actually believe that they had any means of victory against the Lords of the West.
@@myriadmediamusings I dont think they would have the courage to attack the Valar. Even after Sauron used his ring and deception to dominate their minds and wills for decades they still fall to their faces in fear by seeing some eagle shaped lightning storm and it required for Sauron to pull a god-like display of power to keep their morale up. Without Sauron they wouldnt be so mindless and fool to actually believe that they had any means of victory against the Lords of the West.
The Eldar seem strong in middle earth. 😅
for research purposes
Heil to Ar-Pharazon King of Arda and savior of Mankind
lol ironic given your @
Let us all agree this whole mess is the fault of eru making his 2 children have different afterlives.
@@drrohanjacob elves have no after live they just return to Mandos hall to Arda after a while
numenorians heights in amazon show vs the source material tells you everything you need to know about that trash show
Yes the average height should be over 6'3 at least. Some were 7ft tall and above!
Some real LOTR content! Not that Amazon garbage! 😂
There was no temple on the meneltarma