The Unbalanced Fun of The Vaccinator
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- Taking another look at The Vaccinator in TF2 because there clearly aren’t enough videos on it already. Enjoy!
Sorry about the big gap in uploads!
Timestamps for which you will be very interested:
00:00 - Intro
01:12 - Player intuition
02:18 - The Vaccinator isn’t fun
04:12 - Vaxman
05:27 - Chimpanzees and fairness
08:05 - The ultimate counter
10:43 - Jack of all trades
13:26 - Weaknesses
14:58 - Style
16:46 - Outro preamble
17:14 - Outro
Videos used (with timestamps): pastebin.com/vTM5bfxZ
Music list in order of appearance (with timestamps): pastebin.com/thzLdkU9
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Credits and thanks:
The guys at @elguapomusica for their music production, mixing, and mastering
@elmaxoTF2 for his cameo
Chimp animation by @scape_goat5066
Thumbnail by @Jauntyweb
Outro SFM by @colragreal
Subtitles by @SleepyTF - Ігри
Okay, okay, I hear you! I missed the Battalion's Backup at 9:53, gahd DAMN
Hey I wanted to let you know that you missed the Battalion's Backup. Ok cool!
I thought of that one before Stock Uber tbh. But yeah, strong backpack for a similarly large amount of time investment, so your point still stands.
I opened the comments right as you said it
battalion's backup
Don’t ever disrespect the chad back up🗿
"The joy of random crits is also countered, something no other weapon can do."
Meanwhile, the battalions backup: 👍
@@damsen978 Nobody said that
@@damsen978 No he didn't
@@damsen978 that’s a fairly sad way of excusing an argument. OP was just saying that battalions back up was another option of countering random crits other than the vaccinator. There was no implication of forcing everyone to use it just because of random crits.
@@damsen978 who shit in your cereal? you’re getting mad about something OP never said
@@damsen978 The "op" is just saying that he forgot to mention battalions backup when he sayed that vaccinator is the only thing that can make random crits dissapear. So for the love of god learn to read nothing like that was implied lmao. And then this "you have anima pfp" shit that does not discredit anybodys point you are just a manchild.
Also you making the same mistake we don`t need to use 1 weapon when we have 2 :)
Interestingly this weapon is simultaneously useful against hackers and it's name is also a pun on Valve Anti-Cheat, "VAC"cinator. Like a parting letter by Valve before S- hit the fan.
The vaccinator is a pun on the word "vaccine." And Vac is also based on "vaccine." So they are based on the same thing, not each other.
How is it useful against hackers? 🤨
@@SimoneBellomonte The "ubercharges" blocks critical hits of a selected type. So headshots can only deal base damage (50), which also gets reduced. It also has 67% faster uber rate and uber is divided into 4 charges. Latter means you don't need to wait for the meter to fill up full before using a charge.
@@SimoneBellomontelike cookTF2 explained it just makes it easier to tank headshots giving your patient more time to deal with the snipers
The name Vaccinator is mainly based on the concept of vaccination. The weapon makes you IMMUNE to weapons of a certain type the same way a shot would make you immune to a disease
As a medic main myself whos used every medigun for a while, i think the biggest appeal of the vaccinator is "Active gameplay" where most of the other mediguns promote a very passive/linear style of "build uber, count uber, be safe" The vaccinator gives you a whole other minigame to juggle with your job, which in total fairness, a lot, and i mean a -lot- of competitive games/shooters/genres struggle with in general.
Take final fantasy 14, healers in that game are for the most part, very 1 dimensional like medic, heal when people are hurt, use your bigger heals [crossbow for example] for burst healing and safety while throwing out damage [maybe a stray bolt or two at the enemy lines for example] when you're feeling it. What changes this like the other mediguns are the classes, Astrologian has a entire mini game like the vaccniator, but it provides a damage buff for the team. or if you want the basic medigun, white mage is your go to.
The issue when taking this to tf2, is that medic, unfortunately, doesnt really have differing playstyles outside of his first one, and the vacc is very attractive to players who are willing to take another step of mastery in the game, while not left clicking a soldier and sitting behind a rock/at a dispenser and waiting for the coveted right click to highlight, Medic is a very fun, and extremely satisfying class to learn, especially when you start feeling the impact of your actions and understand why medic is so powerful to begin with. Vacc just takes it a step further with mastery and offers a more frustrating experience on the recieving end, while giving the medic player the sense of satisfaction that no other medigun can provide, outside of a sick pocketed 2000 hour demo man with kritz.
The Quickfix too encourages to split heal to keep your team alive as possible and not just pocket the same guy till the end of the round, i will admit not as much as the Vaccinator, but Vaccinator allows to pocket too, since its job is to counter everything so it's amszing at helping classes who struggle against their own counters, like keeping the bullet resistance bubble on a Sniper or explosive resistance on an Engi
You should try playing Paladins. When I played, there was no pure healer. My main was Furia, a damage/healer hybrid, until Io (a damage/healer hybrid with a bit of flank) came out.
@@bruschetta7711 Dude, stop holding up the Quick Fix as some epitome of egalitarian healing when I've not seen the fabled exclusive pocketing Medic in pubs, at least never to the extent people complain about it. The Quick Fix blows; its reduced overheal's not even enough to protect anyone from a charged shot even when its "uber" is popped. It's for Medics that can't stay alive long enough to build stock and aren't skilled enough to wield Vacc or Kritz.
@@bruschetta7711 True. The quick fix's reduced overheal and the uber isn't invulnerability, it's greatest use it when you managed to flash-heal everybody to full health and overheal, instead of just 1 guy with either inulnerabiltiy or krtiz who could easily miss all his shots, you have your whole team backing you up.
@@bruschetta7711 I LOVE using the quick fix xD, especially if there's already another Medic on our team. Is our medic pocketing someone? That's fine, I'm gonna heal our team! Everyone on low health? Just pop an uber and it's done!
The vax song had me laughing like crazy, this was such a fun watch. I love the personality you put into your videos Mr. Medicinal Man
We need full version
It's a cover of Beatles' Taxman, but it's so fun redone
I think Vaccinator's balance is much more directed towards "very good against single enemies, pretty weak against actual organized teams" since you can't really do that much against all damage types simultaneously unless you use all bubbles at once, and even then the 2.5 seconds of pseudo-uber might just not be enough. It's extremely good at countering single enemies, and if those enemies carry the team, then you as a Vax med can completely shut them down (unless it's a Spy or Demoknight), but when it comes to playing against a whole team of good gamers, the Vax seems to be quite behind the other Mediguns, especially with the weak overheal. Still extremely good in some situations, and probably still quite good in a typical pub setting
100% agree. Against a competent team, I feel like I’m at a disadvantage when I’m forced to use the vaccinator to avoid being picked. In Casual mode, however, it might be strong or even OP simply because you’re forcing the enemy team to rely on coordination, which Casual teams usually suck at.
@@lumbajackthumbs7755 True. Maybe make the bubbles only do 30% resiatnce but allow them to stack?
Yeah vac is prob the worst medigun to try to break a stalemate
I disagree. If you’re not going up against a full team of pyros you could just pop bullet and rocket resistance for 5 seconds and use the crossbow to heal after using said ubers.
9:53 You forgot the Battalion's Backup. We are insulted you forgot this. The Battalion's Backup Battalion will remember this.
It gets worse when you realise there's a soldier wearing it during the crit demonstration at 9:40
The unbalanced nature of sniper that will NEVER be fixed and how "bot" prone sniper is makes this medigun a necessary evil.
It also gives the medic more agency over smaller things like avoiding getting picked by that one scout who manages to escape the pocket's fov.
Sniper's not even good in casual though, it's just really annoying.
@@mooncalf_4534 depends what level of cas players your working with or against. a mediocre sniper can still be popping you everytime your forced to duck your head out because he was sitting there with full charge for 20 minutes while your spies and scouts were doing god knows what and your own snipers are bushwacka knights
@@ultra-papasmurf Yes. But he wouldn't be having high impact. Sniper's a low impact class if you're not picking specific targets, aand even if you hit every fullcharge bodyshot you go for, your DPS will still be lower than combat classes.
@@mooncalf_4534 picking a decent med, engie or anyone really on a long respawn time is high impact for low cost, not to add just the threat of a sniper chokes up portions of the map until hes dealt with or if he's hilariously bad
@@ultra-papasmurf While true, he has no actual map control at all, which is his main issue. He has map threat, as in if you go into his sightline there's an X% chance of dying (based on your movement and his skill level) but no actual CONTROL. Which means if people just push anyway, there's not really anything he can do to stop that. Combat classes physically stop you from pushing into an area because you HAVE to fight them and win to get there. If you try to walk past you just die for free. Sniper can't do this, and IMO that's why he has a fairly low impact in casual. They can just ignore you and unless you hit the shot and it's enough to kill, they get the territory for free.
Additionally he can't 1v2 for shit. If two people walk at him at once he just loses. Hell if one person does he loses if they have >150hp and some movement skill, or the ability to look down and spin their mouse around wildly. Sniper CAN dominate casual, of course he can. But to be able to dominate casual as a Sniper, you'd have to be very good. Good enough that if you were that good on any other class, you'd still be dominating.
For reference I've played a little high level Sniper. I was really good at my peak, probably a UGC Plat level Sniper. I've definitely dominated casual games very hard. But I find I do as well or better on Soldier in most casual games (or Scout if there's no Engi on the enemy team to shut him down) despite never having been a particularly good Soldier player. Soldier can stomp with like 1/5th the skill that it takes for Sniper to do the same. And he's less counterable because if your team's losing, Sniper doesn't really help much. They just all push you at once and you present no deterrant for them to push, and don't have the DPS to beat them. Soldier physically holds them back via forcing them into fights, and out-dpses Sniper pretty easily over the course of a game. Especially when spamming chokes or fighting groups. And of course, one lucky crit can often win a casual game.
Lastly while Sniper's super high impact in competitive, the player numbers go against him. Killing a player in 6s puts you in a 6v5. Actually enough of an advantage to push with. Killing one in HL puts you in a 9v8, which is... Alright. But not really actionable. Killing a player in casual puts you in a 12v11, which you literally don't even notice. You'd need like 3 kills in 3 seconds to have actually impacted the fight. Add in the fact that you yourself aren't really fighting and even the 3 kills puts your team in an 11v9 which still isn't particularly great.
I feel like the downside of no actual uber is something that probably should be mentioned a lot more.
Without it, pushing into an area where you know there are multiple damage sources means you are guaranteed to have to pop two, potentially three bubbles, which cuts down on how long you can be effective in that environment.
All right buddy, you DID NOT just diss the Vaccinator's sound design.
Haha just memeing on when the sound glitches out. It seems every 2nd bubble you build up, the volume jumps to 11
Its not the sound itself its just how loud it can activate sometimes
The Vaccinator is also easily countered with fire damage, due to fire damage causing a healing penalty to all mediguns since the Meet ur Match Update.
unless the Medic is using the fire resistance bubble
@@RandomFurry07 Thats the thing, even the bubble suffers with that penalty.
When people doesn’t know Vacc is actually one of the most skill based and mechanic based medigun in the game.
also fire damage also reduces the resistances and due to how it is coded crit-resistance included so the phlog can be good against it
Love your style of content, it clearly shows the fun and love put into it. I also really liked the musical bit.
“Switching to another weapon is not fun”
5 min before: “Spy can just shoot the sniper, so razorback is ok”
it's not just switching weapons, it's switching loadouts entirely and forcing a particular loadout
every spy in existence has a revolver which can shoot the sniper. Not all of them are the same level of effectiveness, but unless the spy is fighting against an entire team of razorback snipers, there's still plenty of other targets that don't strictly require the spy to be good at shooting, so sacrificing some degree of counterplay against one enemy for utility against the rest isn't as horrible.
This is less viable against the vacc because A: medic is so impactful that killing him is almost always a top priority, and B: any competent medic is almost always going to be with at least one teammate and applying his healing to them. So you're guaranteed to be fighting multiple enemies and your only viable answer is to switch loadouts entirely, and unless you're switching to demoknight specifically (and even then all the med has to do to counter demoknight is to be next to anyone who can knock them away), you're not even completely countering them, just partially. This means that not only is the necessary response much more extreme, it's also much less effective.
At least we can all agree that vaccinater makes playing medic in casual much less suffering and frustrating,especially when you are playing with a shit team.
With roughly 100 hours into medic, I still find the Vacc rather hard to use. It REALLY stretches your game sense to understand the circumstance so you could react accordingly. In my experience, the Vacc saved me countless times from being trapped across a doorway due to a Heavy or crockets about to kiss my face, but to apply this to your teammates however takes a lot more skill.
I first have to get used to the switching, then I have to apply res accordingly. On simple encounters like a flanking scout or lone soldier isn't hard to deal with at all. Pushing choke points? That I'll need at least 3 charges before I dare to peak, plus I don't find these charges disposable at all, I mean it. I don't get charges as quickly as every critique towards the Vacc seems to say. Always having 1 charge might seem enough but it isn't enough when facing multiple DMG types which is basically 80% of what I'm faced with.
"Having a bubble almost immediately after respawn" unless you count traveling and hanging around the front lines for at least a minute immediately then, okay...
Exactly. Whiners talk about the Vacc as if it requires no separate skill set of its own, and having one on your team is automatic win. But the same people dare to respond to the instant deletion from a Kritz'ed Demo spamming into spawn with "yeah but Demo takes skill". Medic players can't win.
I think the quick bubbles come from crit heals. I rarely keep my Vaccinator beam stuck on a single target once they're fully healed, as overheals reduce the uber rate (iirc) and Vaccinator has a very slow overheal rate.
Continuing to heal dudes who are lower than max health is gonna up the uber rate a lot
Yeaaaah switching targets is pretty effective, the only issue is players being scared to push with a vacc, they don't notice that they'll be safe until they survived for 6+ seconds of them running back and fort the peak until finally pushing and me running out of bubbles lol
9:49 battalion’s backup
Its active is straight up take no crits or mini crits
and damage reduction, 35% I think? oh and 50% less damage from sentries
_and those resistances stack with other ones so yeahhh_
one weakness of the vacc is that it struggles to push against frontlines where different players are present. while the stock just makes you invincible for 8 seconds, a similar effect with the medic lasts 5 if you burn through all charges, at the risk of being attacked by a pyro, not to forget the bubble managment necessary.
moreover, the examples you showed of players facing vacc medics were 1v2 matchups. how would a vacc-heavy combo do against a sniper/scout and demoman? they still probably win, but less so because of the bubbles.
A better comparison imo is what would a pocket X do against a pocket X with a regular pocket medic? And the answer is the vacc combo wins every time. I pocketed a former high competitive Scout friend fairly recently and there's something truly tragic about watching the person with by far the best DM on the server and a pocket Medic just stand looking at an F2P Soldier, just ADADADing because the bubble is up for the next 10 seconds and their shots will do like, 15 damage. There's just nothing you can do.
The Vacc used right is when you pocket a player and violate the flank of whatever map you're on. Nobody can contest you because you're basically a stock uber but you can use partial charge and your uber is 10 seconds long and charges faster for no downside. The partial charge concept in particular being completely broken because you can just have your pocketed player fight someone then if you start losing you pop one bubble and you're guaranteed to win now.
A demoman especially can easily defeat a heavy medic with normal medigun, but with vax anything he can do is completely nullified
this is wrong burning all bubbles lasts 10 seconds not 5
@@breadpirateroberts4946 a target can receive several bubbles at once, as long as they give different resistances.
To give a target resistance to all types (save melee) you burn three different bubbles, then put in a fourth one when the first one expires.
Done right, the last bubble wears off 5 seconds after you start up the first one.
okay vaxman really got me, taxman was one of my absolute favorites as a kid. phenomenal vid as always!
Yeah I'm a big Beatles fan! Thanks very much! ❤️
@@Treggles Never been an insect fan - musical or vehicular, but loved the flying circus.. well done sir.
It's good to see Sips is still malding in his old age
Much like most things people say are overpowered in this game the easiest counter is something called "teamwork" a foreign concept I know.
But all it really takes is 3 people targeting them to shut the vacc down. Hell if you're willing to take off the scorch shot or gunboats you can probably do it with 2.
I will admit the SPEED it creates bubbles with is pretty absurd but it's far from impossible to counter. Another good thing to note!
If you set their heal target on fire even with a fire bubble they will deal less heals to their target making them more vulnerable(plus if they pop a fire bubble they're not using a bubble for a damage type that actually exists.)
Any sort of minicrit will also bypass the crit resist so things like crit a cola the jarate fan of war and that one banner nobody uses cause it has no passive can all help you if coordinating is too difficult.
It's also worth noting that unless the medic is particularly good at predicting who they're fighting when the opening move of any fight is your best time to strike. Before they know what you're using against them.
I would also suggest strongly to any scouts to give bleed a shot. Much like fire it can reduce a medic's effectiveness and with things like the guillotine and Wrap assasin (one of which is pretty much the most common scout melle) you can both stay safe and at the very least be annoying to the medic.
The vaccinator is one of those weapons that if you see the enemy using it you need to be ready to engage them accordingly. Much like how a scout or pyro cannot safely traverse land being watched by a sentry a player cannot expect to solo win a fight with a vaccinator medic. You may need to stop playing fortress 2 and start playing team fortress 2.
If I was going to nerf it. I'd probably reduce its charge rate a bit and make it so only 1 bubble at a time could be active. So that at LEAST players who decide to take a shotgun secondary have a chance to counter the weapon every time.
I feel like the big thing with the vaccinator is it's pretty much the ONLY active medic secondary. Everything else really requires you to pretty much press w and m1 with very little actual gameplay action between uber charges.
Meanwhile the vaccinator expects the medic to pay attention to enemy weapons, swap resistances, pop bubbles when appropriate, ensure they're healing damaged players whenever possible occasionally tank damage for allies and so on.
Vaccinator medics have so much more to do compared to any other medic and it would honestly be a shame to remove the variety entirely.
Something I noticed in your video is that it focused almost entirely upon the experience of the enemy gamer and hardly mentions the medic at all aside from a few mechanical discussions. It's interesting to me how often the "victims" discount the actual complexity of using the weapon.
It may be virtually free to get and deploy a bubble but determining which to use is actually a little bit more complex than mashing m2 and r.
Like for example. Which damage type do you prioritize in this instance? The explosives do deal splash but with falloff it may be less concerning than the pyro rushing you down. And is that a sniper in the distance? Will the sniper get you before the pyro does?
It's also basically the only way to keep alive when a bot is around. So YK. Maybe nerf it after you publicly execute whoever keeps making the damn things.
The kunai should be added to the list since the overheal per kill allows you to negate a player hitting you consistently
Also you see your enemies as nothing but health packs
*IF* you get a backstab
Duh, the kunai is balanced.
The Kunai allows you to have 210 hp meaning you can tank 2 rockets/pills & just stabbing another enemy tops you up to ~80 health no matter how low they are.
Forgot to mention but you also have slower overheal decay so you have more health for longer.
Well I mean, I just find it funny that the spy would kill 5 players in a chainstab with half my teamates running at him. Since Spy is probably putting 100% of his skills in trickstabs… He probably won’t realize that I’m there. The one moment I remember this happening the 4 kill thing was very fucking useless since we already had the enemy team killed. Those were useless kills.
Fish stick on a stick is that you?
As a medic main The Vaccinator is one of my all time most used mediguns. I use it even more than stock. I will admit the learning curve of it is hard to master, but I will also say with the right set of a config script for it switching between resistances is much easier to manage than clicking the reload key.
Also just want to say amazing video keep up the amazing work.
Absolutely agreed, thanks for your kind message!
you not only cheat enemies from the chance to kill you, but also cheat your teammates from a uber push
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 I mean think about it like this it isnt a stock uber that blocks every type of damage, while the vaccinator you mainly can do 1 and half shield bubbles at most per shield pop.
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 so called free thinkers when a youtuber says they dont like a weapon (now the law)
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Be thankful that you even have a Medic, even if he has the audacity of wielding a medigun you don't "approve" of.
The nerve of some non-Medic players - would you tell a Medic that had 90% on stock but unfortunately dropped because no one stopped the one flanking Scout that zoomed past the entire team to specifically target him that he "cheated" his teammates from an uber push?
That is a very fair point about how those uber bubbles can make an attacker's effort feel (and sometimes be) futile, especially for snipers, engies, demos and scouts. It should be noted, however, that these focused on assessing 2-on-1 encounters. The moment we have a 2-on-2+ encounter, which is much harder to avoid when you're on the front line, it turns into just a contextual upgrade from stock without the safeguard of invincibility. If approached by a phlog pyro, this may 'force' the medic into budgeting their bubbles to negate the phlog... but leaves them pretty near the stock medigun experience for all other opponents during the phlog push if the medic chooses to counter the phlog. And if they don't counter the phlog, the phlog gets them.
The vax's whole thing is not having an 'ultimate', but instead opting for an improved 'normal' operation. The best the stock has in that regard is building overheal between engagements and delayed hits. But with the vax, the medic has to assess incoming damage sources and attempt to mitigate whatever they deem the most threatening. Having to make these assessments also usually means the medic can't just hide around a corner, and will still be subject to picking through all means that are "not their type." It takes two opponets to force the medic to choose who to block and who to let through, and with only one soldier or pyro, some spontaneous juggling can help bypass the bubbles, too.
Is it unbalanced? I guess? Maybe if you want to roam around with your pocket medic who gets diminishing returns for pocketing, and want to bully stragglers back into the spawn room while keeping said medic away from the front lines where they belong. It gives the medic a much more active and attentive role, and sacrifices the table-turning plays of the kritzkrieg and stock to instead give one person a better survival rate against a single damage type, with the flexibility of swapping protection types on the fly. Sometimes you gotta pick between saving your teammate from demo pipes or saving yourself from that sniper who's eyeing you up like the last hottie they saw on Tinder. And that sniper only has to wait a couple seconds before he can swipe.
I loved the part at 0:00 when he said "Gaming". I really felt that
The thing with Vacc is, it's only good in 2 kinds of situations really
a) when you're facing just a single heavy, or a single pyro, or a single soldier
b) in hands of a juggling multitasking medic main who would be as annoying with any other medigun anyway
And frankly, the charges aren't as disposable either outside of the former, since usually pushing towards enemy means facing classes of all 3 damage types at once, and you also have to pick and choose anyway since last I remember using the damn thing you could only pop 2 resistances at once, no more, so gotta read the situation near instant as well to know which one you need the least.
13:22 the only spy weapon that could counter is the Enforcer
Vaccinator is good in term of punishing a disorganized one type of damage stacking team . as much strong the Vac is , people forget it's true weakness. it will crack under enough pressure , and you can easily up the pressure when using two type of damage . as someone who use vaccinator as his main medigun . if you on top of your game , you will always only have 2 charge ready . it's so hard to have all 4 unless if the enemies really suck .
the reason why i use vaccinator because it's the only medigun that give you agency on the situation . let be real , it's not fun to die in pub game because that one enemy keep sneaking past your teammate who never care about doing nothing other than pressing W all the time . also i HATE SNIPER AS CLASS .
i was wondering if anyone was gonna mention that.
the secret to getting past the Vac is just... like... have a second guy that does a different damage type.
Scout + Soldier works, Pyro + Demo; etcetera etcetera.
@@TheDoc_K Don't forget the Pyro buff against healing target and his direct flame reduce resistance. It's so often i get rushed by Pyro and I pop the resistance but still end up with less then half health. The Vac is not op, People just realized it's not that bad weird medigun.
I hate when everyone suddenly decide on this one item need a nerf when they don't use it. Then the item get nerfed and no one use it. Then everyone complain about we should not add new weapons but buff under used or trash items .....
@@TheDoc_K also would like to add that soldier can have rocket launcher and shotgun at the same time, i did see soldier bait me to pop bullet uber then switch to his rocket to force me to drain the uber.
@@CoolSs I think its because while in stuff liek competetitive its very ueasy to get 1 teammate with different damage type and **** the vaccinator in pubs this is a lot harder to do. Then again it the vaccinator peaks ut into the enemy camping the last point they can't do anything.
2 players against 1 should always have the advantage, specially when 1 of them is meant to EMPOWER team mates
The vaccinator is more reliable but it's weaker, giving you a clear edge in 1v1s but being a downgrade when swarmed (which is most of the time)
If one players is frustrated because the player/medic combo saw them coming and are ready to deal with him, that's not a problem, that's how the game should play
You should not be capable of reliably besting a couple of players that are ready for you
And the scout example is even dumber, scout's whole gimmick is that he can bail out of unfavorable engagements, so he should not be taking them at all. Scout is supposed to pull out and either look for another target or go for another attempt when the enemy is distracted
6:02
This monkey fairness study has been done, by Frans de Vaal and his colleagues.
For the same task, one group of monkeys was getting cucumber (acceptable food), and the other was getting raisins (sweet food, basically monkey candy). Monkeys from each group could see each other, and of course the cucumber was quickly rejected as a form of payment (even though it was accepted before they could see what the other group was getting :,)).
Yup. They did not open the cages because they knew the researchers would be in danger (they were already getting cucumber thrown in their faces lol)
My favorite and most used medigun, and equip, is said Vaccinator. I'm a freak for items that reward micromanagement, and honestly there's a reason why mine is called the "Last Resort". It is garbage at pushing against chokes. It is also garbage at dealing with massive swathes of enemies because it's guaranteed to have equally high DPS's of two, if not ALL damage types at once. The vaccinator is really a pure defense/flex medigun best applied against a good team when your own team can't defend you, do the objective, kill enemies, have any sense of how the game works, or if the teams are so god awfully balanced even stock uber wont save you. I do agree it can be annoying to play against, I've had my own ubers and picks denied by it. But it collapses so fast when a team has multiple damage types barraging your team at equally alarming amounts that even the fastest macro will eventually fall when the 10% damage still amounts to over 100 dps. It's great on 1v1s (duh) and when the enemy team only has the entirety of the US, but it really falls short in casual in doing what medic does best, changing the tide of battle.
You'll hate fighting it on symmetric maps, but the main reason they're using it is because their team can barely hold up in the first place. If the team is good, there is no reason to use anything other than uber and kritz because they realize if their medic is alive, so are they.
The optimal usage is to just hold the flank generally. You play flank with a passable player and the enemy team now has 50% less map to play on because you can't lose DM with the Vacc on you. From there a couple Engis and explosive classes spamming the main choke and your defence is unbeatable.
Even at its absolute worst case scenario of pushing in like a regular uber though you still have 5 seconds of functional ubercharge unless like actually the entire enemy team is in a line shooting your pocket and they have 0 movement skill at all.
@@mooncalf_4534 this implies a competency on your own team able to hold an entire choke without you shoving the thing into them 24/7 while they fight off ubers, which also becomes problematic at some point since just holding a flank wont be enough in a lot of cases because casual teams like having people barrel down the same spots over and over, which then becomes the problem of being overwhelmed, which then leads to you running back to the main choke. which then means if your team is competent enough to do that you can just use... stock uber/kritz to regain space since they have enough brain cells to deal with the enemy on a choke without you
also yes, they will all shoot the guy with a medic with a shiny bubble on him because... thats what people do regardless in casual.
in casual, vacc's at its most useful as a safety net for the overextenders or as a punishment for said overextenders on the enemy team or just general quick and dirty denial (aka the anti-DM thing you said, but really its better not just on one guy, duh)
ive had people somehow DIE with all 4 bubbles put on them at optimal times in a 1v1 which you think wouldnt happen but does. pocketing to protect a flank is pretty good but you're better off at the choke if youre really the only medic on the team. really that denying an entire choke part is more of a dream scenario than anything with my experience so far.
@@Reragi Yeah if you're the only Medic you're right I'd say. I think the Vacc becomes "problematic" rather than just extremely frustrating and unfair-feeling when it's the second Medic on a team using it.
Man I wonder what talented, amazing, sexy artist drew that monkey scene 👀👀 (in all seriousness absolutely phenomenal video man, fucking great stuff man 👏👏)
This is why I use the Blutsauger amputator with the Vaccinator, great synergy.
I was using this for awhile too its a fun loadout. I'm back to usually using the vacc , crossbow, and pan tho. I remember on trade servers before the vacc got nerfed just popping ubers and being able to melee or shoot someone and still have resistance. People cried when medic wasn't just a healer and could easily kill them back... Idk if I started it or not but started showing up on normal maps too and people cried a lot so it got nerfed heh. Same thing happened with how fast mini sentries used to be deployed and then you could wrangle them for easy kills.
While I do think your editing style is fun and the video is well made, I do think some of the points in the video are flawed.
-first off, a trap that both me and many other players sometimes fall into is that they see the medic as more of an inventory slot than a full character: what I mean is that very often players don't think of fighting a pocket as a 1v2, as they should. The vac really encourages that, since it is more build towards the flank instead of an actual Teamfight, meaning those 1v2 situations will occur more often, and it will feel more unfair.
-i don't think you have actually covered the main, glaring weakness of the weapon: it's not übercharge. If you as a vacmedic get caught in a teamfight, you are fucked, cuz you can't bubble simultaneously against snipers, soldiers, and that one fucking pyro that somehow got through the backlines. Funny thing is, you brought that up by saying dropping a vac medic is less impactful than a full medic, but that is not just because h rebuilds his bubbles back up quickly, it's also because the enemy team LOST ÜBER. A bubble in the hand is not necessarily better than an über in the bush, although granted, that is why I like the vac: it puts less pressure on you to use that über effectively and not die, at the cost of your team not getting über.
-you made a huge point about how it counters by requiring them to change their Playstyle putting emphasis on pyro and soldier, who have to change to their secondaries to effectively fight you. I wanted to point this out, because I think that that point would be incredibly flimsy and stupid if there was a class whose core identity was requiring those two classes to switch to their secondary. Maybe it wears a fire retardant suit and reflects rockets or sth, idk.
-a sentries point on defense is to waste time. The entire point of defense is to waste time. Engineer as a class is designed to waste the time of the enemy, and reduce time wasted of your team(that it would spend rolling out or looking for a health/ammo pack). Critiscisimg a weapon because it plays into the engineers hands by essentially choosing to play into his gameplan instead of outright crushing it is like saying that firefighters should use planks of wood instead of water, because it takes time to connect the hose to a hydrant. Where I do agree with you is that not all engineers like to stick around in their nest and like to find other things to do outside of tending to it. A class shouldn't be that restricted to one position. But I also find it curious that the engineer in your example didn't use the most common engineer primary apart from stock, which would've countered the vacc in his entirety and made your example a bit more flimsy.
-Oh no, not the random Crits (also, as others have pointed out, the backup exists)
-also, I don't think that you think that it is, but it comes across as if new players learning to spread their heals instead of focusing on one target is bad.
Surprising to know this quality is coming from a new UA-cam channel. I respect all the writing and editing that was put into this, and hope to see more along the way. Great content.
3:41 I’d argue the Kunai is about as / more frustrating than the vaccinator because it’s always frustrating to shoot at a spy and he just doesn’t die because of the overheal he can receive from backstabs. It sucks too, because the Kunai is the only knife I really see spies use due to its sheer versatility and leniency it has over other knives.
And prone to be used with dead ringer and/or interp modifier also known as """skill"""
Agreed. Spy should always die in one shot.
@@user-ox3du2pv2v It's already the second worst class in casual what more do you want lmao
@@mooncalf_4534 The worst* ,not second worst .
I just realized besides melee there is one other dmg type that can soft counter vac and it’s bleed damage which is a uncommon dmg type only normally found on cleaver scouts
edit 1: spelling fixs
I think the worst part about the Vacc is that its the ONLY medigun to give the medic himself a buff while in use, not even requiring an ubercharge. This means that not only is the medic a far less valuable pick given how fast he can build new ubers in the case that the pick is successful, but he's also way harder to kill, since even if he doesnt pop a bubble he has a passive 10% resistance to whatever damage type you try to kill him with, giving his pocket an even larger window to kill you. And hell, if that somehow isnt enough, he only has to burn 25% of his Uber to stuff your pick attempt entirely compared to a regular medic both requiring and burning 100% of a full ubercharge to do the same thing.
Very unexpected level of effort/quality from a channel with less than 5k subs, definitely a treat to stumble across criminally underrated channels like this.
I do have to say that I don't think the Vaccinator is terribly unbalanced, it's largely dependent on the gamemode or format you're playing. Very team-fight centric modes like Payload or A/D make it difficult for a medic to receive one singular damage type at a time (and the rare competent demoknight could ruin your day too), whereas maps or gamemodes that are less linear and more wide-open allow a lot of those oppressive 1v2 situations where the enemy has zero chance of fighting you. It's like fighting sniper at long-range as being a non-sniper, you either have to run or die.
Until you realise you pocket someone decent and control the flank, then the enemy team is forced into your choke point to die over and over because nobody can contest you on flank.
pretty much a difference of Payload versus 5cp
on one Vacc is nigh useless without juggling really well and reading your situation near perfectly, not to add you're gonna be pushing into all damage types at once on, pretty much all of the maps of payload and A/D kind
while on an open ended map, like 5cp where you go back and forth at worse dealing with an odd scout or soldier, you're likely gonna have an easy time with it
...you're describing an unbalanced weapon. An unlock should be viable in most situations, and better than stock in some. The Vaccinator curbstomps in certain places, but in others it's worthless.
It's also a very feast-or-famine weapon. Using it against the occasional flanker or to bully people caught out? Basically free no matter what the enemy does, moreso than your usual 2v1. Against 2-3 enemies? You have two seconds to fight before you're overwhelmed by too many damage types.
I was hoping you'd mention the Flying Guillotine as being unaffected by the Vaccinator's damage resistance. It's niche, but occasionally useful.
You are going above and beyond with references and editing, mate. Even with references that will go over the head of most people. Keep it up!
I 100% agree and have watched the entire video
I call bullshit.
For future people, this was posted a few seconds after the video released.
Yeah me too (I don't even play TF2)
@@GewelReal You have good TF2 takes.
NGL, I had almost forgotten that medic has mediguns other than the vacBANinator with how much of a default its become on my rather cursed loadout (overdose and amputator) but yeah, its one of those weapons that is more often than not utilized as a means of stopping "That guy" from rolling the whole server with his own pocket girlfriend or just simply a (WELL DESERVED) middle finger to all sniper mains across all of gaming
Excellent video!
Also i feel like instead of "should ten percent appear to small, be thankful i dont give it all," a better line in the taxman parody wouldve been "should ten percent appear to large, be thankful i dont ubercharge"
This channel is starting off with a pretty good momentum
Keep up the good work bud
This is crazy good content! Man had a whole song! Def subbing
incredibly high tier content, vaxman goes hard!
That's where the Enforcer gets to be one of the best guns to Spy
Subscribed for the song and traditional mic with jumper cable clamps as a base. I like your style
I genuinely love this weapon. Got a prof ks and play with a buddy so I can use the solemn vow effectively by picking out weak players and relaying that to an class that can actually hurt them. The clear despair as they swap to their melee weapons after popping a bubble brings me joy
Very good video!
The Vaccinator suffers from what I like to call the "Genji from Overwatch syndrome." IE something shouldn't be vastly above the general power curve because "it's hard to use." While I honestly think the Quick Fix is a far bigger problem than the Vaccinator (because it's both extremely powerful and extremely easy to use) the Vacc is definitely the far stronger option of the two with the only requirement being basic reaction time.
I saw this video and I actually thought you’d have like 500k subscribers or something. Amazing content you’re posting out, keep up the good work man.
Dave's spaghetti is my favourite spaghetti. Thanks man!
Excellent editing and a very fun video.
I’ll watch more because of it :D
It's Interesting because I don't think the Vaccinator is broken, but it would not be hurt by an increase in time to gain charge. That's also true for a few things in TF2 but ignore that.
I prefer playing Vax med especially against some of the most annoying snipers, because I have to work out which damage deserves priority.
My Hybrid Knight is also not afraid of a Vax med.
A team that's decently balanced in classes and capable of thought should be able to see the resistance and focus that annoying medic.
I think this discussion is brought up by people who refuse to
And I hate to say it
GitGud.
Playing TEAM Fortress 2 with your TEAM leads to some fun and insightful plays
Also lmao the Sips Clip was gold, thanks for reminding me of it
11:53 LITTELARY AIRBLAST
Fantastic video, great work! Hope to see more from you :)
Hugely respect the amount of work you put into each upload, great video.
i have 1 more thing to add
broken bad>broken good
cuz while its better to balance everything in my tf2 opinion all games should have weapons for fun and meming around and while they can be balanced i found that most of them are not so its always nice to have AT LEAST 1 funny weapon even if it wasn't balance(better to be weak than strong)
10:00 IIRC the battalion's backup also negates/reduces crit damage in some capacity when it's been popped.
Good Sips clip, knew I had to lower volume immediately lmaoo
Fun is a paradox, It invokes selfishness but aswell as fun for all. Its weird idk its 4am
This had no business being posted on a 4k sub account idk why he's not at 100k
4:44 I appreciate the Taxman Parody, very funny 😆
Ways to fight vaccinator:
- have more than 0 teammates on the server
- spam scorch shot / detonator - fire decreases healing done by 50% and shields by 20%, medic retreats after 2-3 shots or dies
- shoot the medic, ignore the patient - this way medic does not get double health regen and has much slower charge build rate
- phlog (direct fire may also decrease healing by 100% for a moment - don't remember if it's true)
- any mini crit buff - forces the medic to retreat / die to unexpected burst damage
- huntsman across the map - nobody expects that
- hit and run - force the bubbles and hide / reload while they are active, treat it sort of like an enemy uber
- suicidal demo with any melee / caber / base jumper sticky bombing
- uber push or using quick fix to prolong the fight and outlast the vaccinator
Flare guns do not disrupt healing, according to the wiki only flamethrowers, lit arrows, Sharpened volcano fragment and the Huo Long heater do that
"Honey, wake up...Treggles just uploaded a new video."
Small TFTubers has no chill editing this good
Another important point about the vax and its counter play is melee. Melee does not counter the vaccinator like people think it does. Melee damage is the only thing not entirely stifled by the vaccinator.
God damn the drum interlude was amazing xD I would very much like a full Vaxman cover
I 100% prefer the old balance of TF2, before they added the Scout's Flying Guillotine on 2012 allowing for one of the most powerful combos in the game's history with the Sandman. Because every class had something op about them. Like Scout having the old Soda Popper with mini-crits and Sandman's stun, Soldier having the old Black Box, Pyro with the old Degreaser axtinguisher/flaregun combos, Demoman's old Loch-n-Load that dealt 120 dmg per shot, Heavy's old Natascha, Spy's old Dead Ringer and Ambassador, and so on.
This is the best kind of balance imo, because when everything is op, then nothing is op. That's how Icefrog balanced Dota and it's one of the main reasons it's so popular.
the reason I play vaxx is that its the only way i both protect myself and also have to think about what im doing and respond to threats with at least some variation.
gameplay with stock is just m1 at teammates and arrow, and if u see enemies break line of sight and prepare to surf. feels less interesting to me than having to swap through bubbles on different teammates as ur getting rushed
Gonna slight disagree on this one as long time vacc medic main, vacc isn't unbalanced, more so it's extremely punishing against lack of organisation (Which admittedly is extremely common in TF2). Yeah, the bubbles are powerful and protecting against single damage is easy and can be maintained for a long while, but now introduce 2 types of damage, on top of now having to juggle switches the time of the 75% protection just got severely cut and you have maybe single mistake to spare if you want to fully utilise it (and mind you this is the most common scenario when going for a push against defending team).
Now compare that to stock, sure the recharge time is much longer but once you have it you outright deny ALL damage making you an unstoppable defence crushing machine and even if you and your heal target died right after you probably easily paved the way for your team to follow up.
So, bottom line is that vacc is strong but primarily when defending, for pushing through defences stock is still by far superior.
Oh and Vacc is just plain fun, not even because it's powerful, it's just that medic as a class is very passive, vacc changes that dynamic heavily by now asking you to actively seek out low health players to get your bubbles and also demands that you pay attention to your surrounding and either predict or quickly react to any damage source.
You play Vacc by either pocketing someone with very strong DM wherein any downside is negated because you can just pop whatever they need one time and they're safe in a teamfight anyway (Vacc is especially good at pocketing Scouts because a comp Scout's movement + the occasional bubble lets them just sit in like 1v4s without being at risk of death, and they'll clean them all up quickly anyway) or just sitting on flank and making the enemy team incapable of playing it. It's definitely better on defence but the ability to autowin the flank for your team on any point of any map because no 1-2 players can ever win DM vs you + a pocket is so broken, just in a less material way than "me shiny, me click sentry" so people don't really notice it.
Your quote of it not being OP it just hardpunishes a lack of organisation kind of explains it though, doesn't it? Yeah, it's OP against unorganised teams. Which is 100% of casual games you'll ever join. Sure if you happen to queue into Process and you're against exactly a 6s team before their scrim, the Vacc won't be very good. But if you're in any scenario you'll ever ACTUALLY be in, it's just going to win every DM for you over and over, with a 5 second functional uber on top. Also it's great at making up for bad players' poor movement and positioning by letting you have your "ubers" quicker, and letting you use them to escape without losing anything significant. Nothing is more gross to me than watching some shitty Med position himself terribly and get away from guaranteed death because he spent 25% on a functional invuln bubble. Like talk about crutch weapon.
“OP against uncoordinated teams” translates to it being unbalanced in casual
Amazing content!!
They nurfed hog in 1 but gave it back because he became useless. Also there was more shields in 1 that makes landing hooks harder
alright, 5 seconds into the vaxman segment and i'm sold, subscribed and belled
6:59 holy shit i didnt expect sips to show up
Haha I'm a big fan, had to include him somewhere
This video explains really well how frustrating it is to fight against a Vaccinator medic, as well as all of the other problems the weapon has. Great video!
Also, i loved that Taxman parody 😂😂😂
10:51 the cow mangler soldier being in an completly white spot, in the corner of the image, made my day
"Yea, I play medic!"
Honestly, something that i’d think would be weird would be something to interact with class specifics, something similar to vax, where it still takes a while to charge, but you get specific damage boosts, though these boosts would be overall balanced, and would be short.
When I see a Vac medic while im playing scout I use the most overpowered weapon known to man: the fan o' war. It's surprising how minicrits let you ignore the vac's shields. Of course though the playstyle is dangerous. This also probably means jarate helps too.
This is a little thing but when I saw at 15:56 that you used a screenshot of the image I submitted to the TF2 bug report wiki of the floating resistance shield that was a nice little moment for me
Also good video you've earned a like 😎
HA! Thank you for your service to the wiki!
"And now for something completely different" killed me THE EFFORT IN THIS VIDEO. Chefs kiss.
Loved the house md clip, one of my favorite shows
9:49 And battalions backup (even though you'd need to be lucky for it to work) :D
Thing is- although this video is amazing and your style is wonderful, I disagree because this is the Vaccinator in a vacuum, and not in the 12v12 chaos and 6v6 competitive where a Medic usually gets ganked from two directions, has to pop two charges which were clearly baits before the pocket reacts(if they even do) and lose the war of attrition vs flankers.
The small charges are it’s biggest strength and it’s biggest weakness, simply because 2 seconds of a form of safety is nothing when you keep using them to delay the inevitable in the pre-engagement chaos of a fight where flankers try to pick you off.
Plus, it’s the best medigun for anti-botting.
10:37 that's littelary what airblast does 💀
“Stun mechanics are always bad” people when they get hit by the Holiday Punch from behind (they find it hilarious)
Thanks for a lot of amazing reasons to USE it more.
Just use the enforcer. Boom countered lol
Me countering a medic combo with a shitty slow firing revolver:
@@firedolphin7621 "shitty" 😡
i agree. when i used to be a medic main, i never used the vaccinator. i dont think its fun for anybody to multiply your health by 3 against an enemy.
oh but it is fun to become imune to damage is it?
@@jaburu4230 it wasn't really fun for me, but it was probably fun for others.
@@jaburu4230 It's fun to cap the point right in front of your enemies' faces ignoring their damage and constantly think "how are we not dead yet".
@@Sasha-zw9ss you say this like the player using the vac doesn't need any skill to use it, i mean you literally have a target on you back by just having it
@@jaburu4230 You misunderstood it. I am this user and wasn't even sarcastic) I only use stock more because I have a strange one.
0:48 “unbalanced gameplay” *shows the scorch shot
Fish would be proud.
Great vid!
The vaxinator has the secret advantage what I call "bubbling."
The vaxinator is able to uber someone and switching to another person, like flashing with the medigun.
Except it keeps the full 75 damage resistance and has the full length uber, meaning you can protect around 4 people all at once.
Example: A demoman with a kritz-medic comes around the corner, since he only has one damage type, you completely cover everyone in explosive resistance and shut the kritz medic down.
This can also be kinda used against sentries.
I've always hated the stun whiners in Overwatch. The reason those abilities are so powerful is because they're meant to punish your positioning. They're like Spy backstabs, you can't complain that he "does too much damage" because you're not supposed to be showing him your back. If you stand in front of a 1000lb man with a shotgun and a rusty hook you'll probably die. This is a valuable lesson to not stand there in future. Those deaths are mistakes, but a lot of players seem to think that it's some kind of bug that needs fixing. Most stuns are close range on heroes that have massively limited range already, because they're "back off" buttons. So you pick Widowmaker and never worry about getting stunned again.
Bro just spawned into youtube with quality tf2 content
Too kind 🥰
This dude is confirming my suspicions that I have a video essay addiction, lol. :,,,,)
I don't have much to say except that taxman cover was incredible
"be thankful i don't tank it all" would have been better, but 10/10 on the taxman parody. good shit.
Vaccinator medic main here, this video does sum up most but not all of the viewpoints for and against this weapon. I Main this dammed thing as it was the only thing that counters the Hoard of bots faced in every session. I can also say that fighting a team that knows what they are doing with this weapon is frustrating to dance around keybindings to have everything work. This medigun is the best because getting shut down as a medic is honestly one of the worst things in any game. Additionally, I have actually been shut down by pomson engineers and enforcer spies(which I also play when we have too many medics to counter wranglers). The parts of this weapon that is being complained about is essentially a person who hates pub stomp players (rightfully so) as this weapon can be compared to the Kuni spies as your own Allies are your worst enemy in any engagement. I have sense stopped playing TF2 because I honestly stopped having fun because of the bots. If I was to rebalance the weapon, I would add a 60% healing penalty to an ally who has taken damage in the last few seconds or cannot build ubercharge on an ubered target, but increase the passuve healing shield to 20% damage reduction, that way constantly building Uber on a target currently under fire is ineffective, but pocketing still grants some benefits.
love the beatles refrence