[TF2] The Curious Case of the Flying Guillotine
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
- Yeah, I can't pronounce "L'etranger" but I can pronounce "Guillotine," wrap your heads around that one.
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Music used:
Jet Set Radio OST - Ігри
![[TF2] Spy's Best Weapon](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jvfA553xnck/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Spy's Best Weapon](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Neon Annihilator](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rA5jA9GENTU/mqdefault.jpg)
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The weapon itself is a reference to Valves butchered item balance
I see what you did there
"Scouts melee slot is disposable." No, the fish is a necessity for any and all Scout builds lol
while this is true, i would argue that swarms of scouts do better with frying pans (annoying sounds for psychological warfare)
@@voximperatoris1175 so we need a metal fish, to make frying pan noises *and* kill people with a fish? I like it...
@@Obsdragon sadly, that in my opinion would be simply too much power to bestow upon scouts. i'm not exaggerating when i say that i'd rather fight off hordes of bots than a pack of scouts armed with the unholy union of fish, metal and annoying sound effects
The boston basher is the CBT that completes the PP scout loadout.
Wrong again. But why bother arguing with brainless "friendlies"?
Thing about the Guillotine is often you only have one shot and opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted
But then you snap back to reality
@@Duothimir Who gives a crap about gravity
@@tehesprite502 "Me!" (Gravity Fails)
@@PDudeJr" My dispenser! D:"
**crawls into toolbox**
Muffled: "(Its a real bad day..)"
@@tehesprite502 you'll be nervous, but try to look calm and ready.
Scout thinks hes the real slim shady
"Can real slim shady pls stand up. I repeat, real slim shady stand up. I think we are gonna have a problem"
I’m not convinced that he isnt
@@Welsh7133I mean both came from a lower class area
All I can hear is WUNUNUNUNUNUNUH
WUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUN
wananananananana
Wololo
@@JamesonTucker-zn4zj Narwini
@@iamglassthingy3373 Erectus.
Important footnote: the cleaver is only banned in sixes, not Highlander, at least in North America.
From my experience using it it’s really really good on koth, but not much else in HL.
ive seen alot of cleaver use on payload maps these past 2 seasons unfortunately
@@StrangeFestivewhy unfortunately? It’s a cool weapon
@tarot3078 its honestly not fun to deal with in comp, I'll agree it's fun and cool in casual but I've gotten some really undeserved kills across the map with double bleed
6:55 Ok, this is so stupid. Not only he just died, but he also ate your projectile! Who needs enemies, with a dad like this?
Flava be upon yee
Can’t handle the flava?
Bro stop with the f*cking bleeds.
Flava (socially distanced)
2 Flava 4 UA-cam
@@modestheliolisk BASED pfp
"Wait a second... I just remembered! CAPTURE THE FLAG HAS CRITS ON CAP!!!" Turns around, pulling out his cleaver as the Enemy Scout turns the corner. "YOU FOOL!" Throws the Flying Guillotine with a "Ty the Tasmanian Tiger" Boomerang SFX being played as the cleaver flies towards the Red Scout and cleaves their head open, causing a funny rag doll as they fall face first into the water!
I used the wingstick skin for the longest time, so good
Cringe
Based
For a long time, I thought you had to hit the head with the guillotine for guaranteed crits.
It's one of those Mandela effect things I guess, but with TF2 stats.
Given the name it would make sense, but given how often the Huntsman thinks it hits someone in the head, it would be WAY too OP.
Based dwarf fortress enjoyer
13:05 that shot on the retreating scout was a thing of absolute beauty! My man thought he was getting away clean
@T.EX.T-FishStickOnAStickGaming piss off bot
I'm still surprised you haven't made a video like how the Scorch shot is evil, but instead for the Vaccinator.
I'd argue that MANY more classes hate fighting the Vaccinator than they do fighting the scorch shot.
Scotch shot is more annoying then anything. Even with the phlog, it still not that powerful. The vax while it needs skill, can shut down most classes. Seriously 75% damage resistance with crit immunity might as well be the same a Uber.
@@starmaker75 I do know that vax isn't banned in competitive or is nowhere near as oppressive in that format as Casual, and IMO it needs a fully complete rework as tweaking its numbers will only just make it more bearable and just annoying at the best possible scenario.
In it's current state, it just really doesn't feel like a weapon that belongs in TF2.
Theory-Y-Studio's vid on nerfing it is the best one IMO and I love all the reworks he proposed.
-no passive resists
-Instead of 3 individual and very big damage resist ubercharges, the vax provides one universal damage resist ubercharge (equal to a battalion's), an ubercharge that boosts the patient's speed, and an ubercharge that boosts the patient's reload speed.
The Vaccinator is easy to fix. The biggest issue it has is how the Medics that run it are effectively unkillable if they have a modicum of awareness.
To solve this, simply make the Vaccinator no more longer shield the Medic himself, and maybe as compensation bring back the tiny self healing thing it used to have to punish people that insist on shooting the heal target instead.
Unfortunately, the Vaccinator is one of the best counters to sniperbots. It's a necessary evil.
I hate that weapon and I’m a medic main. You basically always have Uber if you’re competent, it’s ridiculous.
I do wish that the cleaver would at least gain mini-crits on debuffed/airborne targets. I think that would be pretty fair since the strafing bug does exist and it gives him some niche team options. Perhaps dynamically increasing the cool down when this effect triggers would also balance it out.
Right now it's less a weapon that rewards careful aim, timing, and game sense and more something you spam down chokepoints since the cool down is so godamn fast. Sure you can go for moon shots and trick shots, but you're not really getting rewarded for them.
Also woe, cleaver be upon ye.
The strafing bug was fixed a while ago as far as I know.
crits or mini crits on bleeding players? so it now works with the wrap assassin instead of the sandman
@pinkiepyro5964 I would love that
Airshot cleavers would be hella fun to pull off
@@pinkiepyro5964the damage this would do would be insane but it wouldnt stun so maybe people wouldnt mind
Heres a little something to get your money up. Keep that chin up Fish
5:30 Ah, someone playing scout targeting the sentry first and not the Engineer that built it. Some things just never change, do they?
Engineers miss shots but sentries do not. If the engineer's aim isn't good, you will lose less health if you dodge well and kill the mini first.
@@ME0WMERE I'm assuming you meant to put that first sentence the other way around?
@@omzyma6136 e
@@omzyma6136 perhaps
Kill the engineer and die in the process = team can steamroll over the sentry
Kill the sentry and die in the process = the engineer has another one up in 20 seconds
Thumbnail is a great reference.
TBh comp shouldn't be really considered when it comes to balancing. 6's and Highlander are so different and so small that it's next to impossible to perfectly balance everything for both audiences. just let them ban it and leave it at that.
highlander balance isn't that much different but 6s balance vs casual is a whole different beast
this is fine, smogon singles in pokemon does it just fine
Balancing the weapons for MYM Competitive is what lead to some of the most unpopular nerfs to weapons that were just fine in casual. So yes, definitely. Competitive should be ignored when balancing weapons. The competitive scene will just ban it if it's too powerful.
Highlander may get included with Casual balance since it's really close
I've only played TF2 for two years before they violently murdered The Sandman, I didn't even play Scout that much; yet another seven years later I still clearly remember every single Sandman + Guillotine combo compilation that I had watched. I really miss using sandman against other sandman users, it was really fun for me when I only started playing
100 health on Sandman makes you really vulnerable
They should give it a Holiday Punch-type stat where you can still stun and crit other Sandman users
@@jblazerndrowzy and bring back the "crit upon the stun" mechanic. Funny ragdolls for the win.
150 damage for the cleaver combo is a little unfair. 100 damage + bleed is pretty fair. Especially when the sandman basically doesn't stun you at all anymore.
yeah, if the base impact damage of the cleaver was reduced from 50 to 30, i think that would be a great way to give us our funny ragdolls back
I can imagine a timeline where the Guillotine gets crits on moonshots to tie it back with the Sandman, but I think it'd have to get its damage cut down to 40 on impact just so you don't get huntsman arrows deleting Medics on a bodyshot. On that note, I think the Wrap Assassin should have mini-crits on moonshot, get that damage buff to the bleed.
psst, heres a fun fact: wrap assassin gets full crits on moonshots
@@dani1999n give the Sandman full crits on moonshots.
Undoubtedly, we live in virtual insanity
7:34 this can actually be a great way to train your aim. It certainly worked for me
An item just not working for both casual and comp at the same time is best addressed by just keeping the balance pub-focused and letting it stay banned. Wish Valve had figured that out before they nerfed the Quick Fix.
8:28 when competetive player discovers that game can be funny
Çalling horrific weapon design "funny" is a perfect example on why stuff like is why I wouldn't hand this game off the community. Imagining playing against that in consistent dm situations and that's fine.
The flying guillotine has always been a curious case to me
The cleaver is part of my fav subclass: Knife Scout. Backscatter, Cleaver, Rune Blade. And don't forget to dress sharp :)
Classic TF2 pub experience courtesy of "Bluegrass Boi" at 3:04
This was every online game with text chat before censorship. The internet before smartphones really was a different place.
Oh I remember it well. Lots to miss about it, for sure, but also a lot of braindead shit like this.
Short stop + flying guillotine + fan of war. I love this lodaut, trow guillotyne and a full clip of the shortstop, reload and thorw yhe guillotine again. And the fan o war for heavys ans mini crit bleed. Love it.
I'd love if this became it's own series! We have bad weapon academy, covering bad weapons. In defence of, covering good weapons, and curious case where the weapons fall somewhere between the two.
Good choice of the jsr music 😊
I wasn’t born in time to experience 6th generation console games and I can say that I’m grateful to be able play some “older” games like jet set through steam and emulators.
the structure of this video was actually fantastic, good work Fish
I like this guy
im so tired that I thought your comment said "the structure of this video is ceramic, good material"
Well I appreciate the transparency Fish. Love your videos dude.
The thumbnail is perfect ❤.
Man this, the sandman, and the ambassador make me incredibly sad, where did the good old days go? 😔
Guaranteed crits for however long the slow lasts for from the sandman, boom combo back, and nothing really needs to be changed because the sandman adds so little that you’re just health for a crit every once in a while
I think if we were to bring back the crit cleaver glory, there's a couple ways we could go about it.
1. Have the Guillotine crit against bleeding enemies. That would eliminate the "competition from the Wrap Assassin" issue (and in fact _encourage_ people to run *_BOTH_* weapons, instead), and would even have great synergy with the Boston Basher, as that also causes bleed.
2. Have the Guillotine crit whenever it would normally mini-crit. This one might be a smidge more balanced as Scout's only means of causing mini-crits is with the Fan O' War, but there's also the Buff Banner and Jarate that would become additional sources of crits.
In either case, as you mentioned, I think the recharge time would have to be doubled or even _tripled_ from what it is, now.
Woe, portable french revolution be apon ye.
3:02 YT Unfriendly word in chat, just letting you know Fish
Remember, bleed damage is mostly psychological
I think an area that is often overlooked with the Flying Guillotine or bleed items in general is that they essentially allow you to 'Dual weild' your damage.
You can't use a pisol at the same time as the scattergun but having someone bleeding WHILE you fight them can feel like hell for the other dude
While you did touch on it at the end I think an almost overlooked element of the cleaver is that it makes bursting down heavies a LOT easier
if you tag them with the Cleaver first. 90 damage plus the scattergun is a crazy ammount of damage before some players can even react.
It's genuinly a good weapon for 1v1's vs buffed players or heavies, usually good scout counters.
It's kinda like the Smash Ball from Smash Bros.
It's a ton of fun casually, but there are some aspects of Final Smashes (namely Peach and Daisy, who get a full, unneutered effect even with the weaker meter version), that prevent it from being in competitive.
I do think a subleague featuring the Smash Ball or Final Smash meter could be fun though.
12:00 that might have not aged well, thankfully 😂
rlly good video, ithink more of these 'curious case' videos would b interesting to delve into the more Weird things goin on with the weapons that arent really Bad or Overpowered like inthe other videos
I guess being awake at 2AM is one way of being first
Also having a membership. Lol
“Videos like these are made possible by viewers like you” I just got reminded of pbs kids
Fish needs to make a cameo next time Soundsmith makes a video on flava, it'd be glorious!
Can i suggest, for the dopamine hit of the Sandman Cleaver;
-Bit less damage
-Crit on Airshots and/or headshots
-lower bleed damage per tick but a longer duration.
Less straight-up damage for emergencies, but you get that snap decision of “Trolldier? WHACK! Another Scout? WHACK! A demo with stickies out? WHACK- Oh he pulled out the pipes and nailed me right in the kisser twice.”
i like this as a series
the moment I recognize Blu's loadout struck a nostalgia trip on me. both him and the sandman combo
"it isn't well balanced for competitive" GOOD. The game isn't designed to be competitive, its a 12v12 chaotic frag fest. Comp will end up running mostly stock regardless
Hope your finances get better fish, great video as always.
I think the cloak and dagger should get an in defense of episode it’s a nifty side grade that sacrifices mobility in exchange for being able to pick your battles
Plus its similarities to stock has an added benefit of being able to trick people since they can’t tell which watch you’re using something not even the dead ringer can do.
I would say that the balance of the Sandman Guillotine combo is actually having the skill to pull it off.
I want the cleaver combo back, even if it's nerfed or doesn't do anything beyond playing a satisfying sound effect.
It was just satisfying.
love your videos, keep the good work
Oh boy I can't to pay TF2 and deal with a bunch of clevers scouts for a few days
i love how half the vid he's running the flava loadout for scout
Thank you for the video!
Rework idea: (x)% damage penalty
Crits launched players
(x)% deploy penalty
No random crits
Launched meaning rocket jumping players or players moved by other third party displacement like air blast, FAN, etc. would lead to hype combos/airshots, rewarding skill. Deploy penalty may be necessary to avoid an air blast -> reserve shooter situation. Could be replaced with “holster” penalty to punish spamming/ more clearly define the weapon as a finishing tool. Thoughts?
In all honesty, i think the Guillotine is in a perfect spot, on minor change i make is if you kill someone with the initial hit it makes the rag dolls go flying so you dont need crits.
I usually use like Luger because I have it. But I use the cleaver and wraps with my favored gun soda popper and it’s so much fun
God that 2fort Cleaver crit clip at the end just gives me life. Also yeah i think the Flying Guillotine is honestly fine where it is balance wise currently and it is the only weapon in TF2 i can think of that has no major weaknesses but its strenghts are just balanced enough that it does not become completely overpowered as it once used to be.
it really seems like rent is due. noboy even talks about the guillotine since the crit combo was removed.
8:35 lmao that disrespect for the sniper
Love the video! I have no worries about the donation goal in the corner, but maybe raise your hud so nothings being covered? ❤
"Yeah, I can't pronounce "L'etranger" but I can pronounce "Guillotine,""
It's just so commonplace, especially when hungry
From experience, if using the cleaver, go stock scattergun with it
Do not pair this with any primary that had less than 4 bullets in the clip
You will be left without a reliable damage finisher more often than not
i think what seperates the cleaver from items like the jarate is that its entirely single target and its secondary effect is entirely negatable
That thumbnail is awesome
Damn some of these clips are pretty huge, Fish's Cleaver aim might rival his Sniper aim
The Flying Guillotine in TF2 has always seemed like a curious case to me.
One more thing about cleaver vs wrap assassin is physics. The travel speed and weight of the cleaver compared to the ornament makes it so much easier to aim IMO.
the wrap assasin and clever can kill every light class and is amazing if youre trying to make the bfb work
hey fish, best of luck with the finances and whatnot. i recently hit a rough patch with money problems, and i know how tough it can be. stay strong out there!
6:52 Spy stole my cleaver, can't have stuff in boston
i think it would be neat if it’s like the bazaar bargain where the more kills it gets the faster the recharge nerf the starting and cap it at the long range hit’s 3.5 sec and it would be pretty fun to use
I never got to experience the old sandman i would have loved to see a 2009 server with all the old effects
The flying peeotine
i don’t play tf2 but i think the best change here is makng the recharge time like 15-20 seconds but it crits on bleeding targets
"Woe, sharp rectangle be upon you"
-the real scout shady
i think if crit clevers were to ever come back it should pair with the fan where you mark someone with the fan then the mini crit would become a crit for the clever, or it should be paired with the sandman again but the clever crits whenever to slowed targets
Im a huge fan of crit cleavers too and making crit on bleed be the replacement makes a lot of sense IF you reduce the base damage of the cleaver from 50 -> 35
105 crits arent to be scoffed at especially after any of the other bleed effects that hit before. It still makes for a lethal combo and pairs with the wrap assassin. If the cleavers bleed was long enough to let you hit another cleaver on the same target for the crit thatd be crazy but also a huge reward for managing to hit the same target twice with 2 seperate cleavers in close succession
The tf2 flying guillotine has always seen like a strange case to me
LOVE THE JSR OST
One of my favorite secondaries
The cleaver is IMO one of the best side grades out there and my go to for the rare occasion I fill scout, always pairing with the wrap assassin as there is no need for a melee to use as a melee, if I manage to wiff and still be alive by then there is a major problem.
Comparing to stock:
you lose the short-mid range rapid fire low damage (I can't seem to hit more than 1-2 rounds per clip even aiming at people who are not moving quickly or firing into groups) if I can land my clear it does like 2 hits of point blank pistol before any bleed damage, it can also be bleeding while I shoot my scattergun of choice or do something else, unlike the pistol which does no damage if I am not actively shooting and hitting with it.
You gain alot of range, it does 50 up close and 68 after flying for 0.5 seconds where the bleed also increases to 54 total, the pistol loses damage over distance harshly even if there was no bullet spread causing missed shots at range. The pistol also doesn't have that many spare clips compared to the engineer which limits its ability to take its super low 8 damage a hit long range shots that are really only good at resetting a healing ramp up for when the medic gets to healing the target.
By taking both you get 2 shots at long range harrasment on targets and if you hit both you can do 80 bleed in 5 seconds (94 at distance) combine with the initial hits and you can achieve 59(min wrap ball with bleed)+50(direct cleaver)+54 (distant bleed cleaver) for a total of 163, if I did my math correctly which if a class can't reach healing in 5 seconds would kill the scout, engineer, medic, sniper and spy, I think the medic's self heal requires ramp up time, starting at 1/s which would not be enough to prevent bleeding out.
Flava scout will always be my favourite subclass
10:00 I would not mind that at the cost of the recharge rate, it crits when it would normally minicrit.
Imagine the cleaver being able to crit just like the Sandman and Wrap Assassin balls
Bfb, guillotine, wrap assassin is my favorite scout loadout. Wait until you get a safe long range bleed projectile hit, then go sonic speed
I feel like minicrits on it in some way (super long range shots? on debuffed targets?) would be cool
It already has minicrits on long-range shots. See how irrelevant that is? lol
just make the sandman ball go back to the stun but make it a one time use per life/supply closet refresh like the caber. maybe make it so if you pick up the ball within 10 seconds of it being hit, you get it back, but if it despawns it despawns, and if you hit the person, it also despawns
nice Layzuhcatz reference from your thumbnail.
Also the background song is 100% Jet Set Radio.
I still think that they could have literally just changed the effect the cleaver crits with at long range to the slow down effect of the sandman. They could even go so far as to have it be like the axtinguisher where it does more damage based on how long the slowdown effect has left when hit by the cleaver. This would probably be the better option as it does mean that if you take too long to get that 2nd hit you won't do as much damage as the crit combo.
The only change id change is instead of stun make it bleed or mini crit = crit hit.
And
Lower damage by making full health enemies left with 20 health meaning a non damage class hit with a crit charged cleaver will have like a good 4 seconds to get healed or find a healthpack. Making it a super useful forced enemy retreating weapon
I didn’t catch it and now I’m bleeding out.
I personally think the guillotine being a combo weapon was an interesting concept (I wouldn’t want to old crit on stun though)
I think it would be interesting for the guillotine combining with things like the Fan O War or mad milk where it provides an upside, maybe giving a crit when mini crit like the bushwaka or like a crit on wet players like the Neon. Probably just mjni crits on debuff would be fun to see
But even then, I think the guillotine is very balanced right now, but it would be interesting to see some mechanic like this to give scout a subclass in some way
I said for the sandman video bringing back the combo with the sandman in it's current state would be really interesting given that its not a full stun anymore and just a slow I think it might be more balanced but you could play around with it being full crits or mini crits.
Before seeing the video, the only thing i want from the guillotine is a bleed distinct from the wrap-assasin, so that i can do 8 damage per second instead of a pitifull 4.
After seeing it, my opinion does not change.
your opinion should change, because the bleed stacks. it's a ton of damage
@@percher4824 that's the point. Doing tons of DoT
@@SeleverEnjoyer it doesn't need more DoT
@@percher4824 need /=/ fun.
Something with the cleaver + wrap that you didn't mention hitting both will take out a 125 hp class unless they are right next to a healthkit. If the wrap assassin high rolls or crits, that'll also take out a 175 hp class as well. Medic is hit or miss if the dots will get him because of his passive regen though.