Baldur's Gate Class Grading
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Edited... just for your pleasure. For this video, I give grades to every class and kit in Baldur's Gate EE.
Leave your comments below as to how much you disagree with my rankings and tell me how much of a twit I am!
Here they are in short (Graded 1-5):
Fighter - 4
Berserker - 5
Wizard Slayer - 1
Kensai - 3
Barbarian - 4
Dwarven Defender - 4
Ranger - 2
Archer - 4
Stalker - 3
Beastmaster - 1
Paladin - 4
Cavalier - 4
Inquisitor - 2
Undead Hunter - 4
Blackguard - 4
Cleric - 4
Specific Priests - 3
Druid - 5
Totemic Druid - 2
Shapeshifter - 4
Avenger - 3
Mage - 4
Abjurer - 1
Conjurer - 4
Diviner - 1
Enchanter - 2
Illusionist - 2
Invoker - 4
Necromancer - 2
Transmuter - 1
Wild Mage - 3
Thief - 3
Assassin - 3
Bounty Hunter - 4.
Swashbuckler - 2
Shadowdancer - 5
Bard - 3
Blade - 4
Jester - 2
Skald - 3
Sorcerer - 4
Dragon Disciple - 5
Monk - 2.5
Sun Soul Monk - 1
Dark Moon Monk - 2
Shaman - 1
Fighter/Thief - 3
Fighter/Mage - 4
Fighter/Cleric - 3
Fighter/Druid - 4
Fighter/Mage/Thief - 4
Fighter/Mage/Cleric - 3
Thief/Mage - 4
Thief/Cleric - 3
Cleric/Mage - 3
Cleric/Ranger - 2
Dual-Classes
Fighters to Thief - 4
Fighters to Cleric - 4
Fighters to Mage - 5
Fighter to Druid - 5
Thieves to Fighter - 2
Thieves to Cleric - 4
Thieves to Mage - 5
Clerics to Fighter - 2
Clerics to Thief - 3
Clerics to Mage - 4
Clerics to Ranger - 2
Rangers to Clerics - 1
Mages to Fighter - 2
Mages to Thieves - 3
Mages to Cleric - 3
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I really dont see how the cleric kits could possibly rank lower than a pure cleric. There is literally no drawback. Boon of lathander with the extra attack on a 1 APR class makes you a significantly more powerful fighter, and clerics get decent armour, thac0, weapon selection and DUHM, so other than low apr, make competent warriors. Its a very useful ability. I wouldnt take it over dual classing certainly, but its frankly bizarre to claim its worse than the base cleric.
Well, I am, frankly, a rather bizarre man. Your opinions are awesome!
The two things I'll say are that (a) the rankings of 'which is higher than which class' is a bit based on opinion and based on the specific abilities they get for that kit or class (and I think that being a Fighter with one additional APR but fewer HP and lower THAC0 isn't quite as good as being a base Fighter, but that's my humble opinion) and (b) the rank of 3 is VERY misleading in that a 3 is the "You're gonna have fun" tier, meaning that the Priest of Lathander is gonna have a good time in playing the game, I just think that there's a bit more flexibility with a main Cleric or a Fighter-Cleric Dual class.
Again, just my incredibly humble opinion. I love these comments! You clearly know your stuff! Keep them coming!
@@Redjoy123 What makes him more flexible? You mean a LN Cleric can go for the bounty on Brage's head where a LN Cleric of Helm always should excort Brage to the temple of Helm?
I've watched a few of this guy's videos, as someone who has done a couple playthroughs a year of baldur's gate trilogy, not the new garbage, since I had the disc sets.
Wow! I'm sure this fella making this video has played quite a bit, I think he misses some of the nuance.
Having watched a view of OPs videos he greatly undervalues a lot of classes and seems to be very rigid in his game play. Id take what is said in that context.
There is nothing stopping an inquisitor meleeing and carsomyr means you will very likely be doing so. The loss of spellcasting isnt really a drawback until well into the 20s when armour of faith and DUHM have scaled enough to be a big deal. The immunities are nice and fast cast true sights and super powered dispels are exceptionally useful in many fights and trivialise many otherwise dangerous enemies.
I think it should be noted that warriors are generally quite good. I would say ranger is better than 2 of 5 and a beastmaster 1 of 5 for example. Are these bad compared to other warriors? Yes. But they are a heck of a lot better than a vanilla thief or bard for a good chunk of the game.
And druid is definitely not a 5. The standouts are call woodland beings, ironskin and insect plague (and creeping doom specifically for liches). Shapeshifting is rather bad (earth ele is OK, but that is an HLA and still nowhere near the standard of a warrior and turns off spellcasting; a dual class berserker->cleric will blow it out the water) and the spellcasting progression as well as spell selection is clearly worse than the cleric for most of the game. And their equipment selection is somewhat worse. Most of BG1 they are trash and from about 1.5 mil to 3 mil xp in BG2 they are trash. If multiclassed, they dont get a decent number of spell slots until 6 mil xp. That is a large chunk of any playthrough.
I love your videos. Have to say though that I don’t agree with many choices. Base Druid as a 5 but fighter/cleric being a 3 is a very interesting opinion. That’s one of the nice things about these games…so many personal variables about what we find useful
Thanks for the support! I get that, I like the tomato-tomato comparison with these classes based on our experiences. With your specific point, but here are my thoughts: I’d say that Druids have a bit more power in the late game than Clerics do in BGEE with their spells and slightly wider damage-type spread weapon selection (which is important for folks who are frontlining like a Fighter/Cleric). I also think that multiclassing in BGEE can be very powerful but also can be tough due to how much extra work you need to do on the front end to get levels but end up with fewer HP than just Dual-Classing and leveling up that way. A single class may be easier and stronger than the multi-class in this way, but I’m sure to veterans like yourself, they may value multiclasses or Clerics higher.
I'm thinking of doing a multiclass for my next HC run so I'll try to be ready for the "I told ya so" comments
As a caveat, a lot does depend on external choices. Back to the F/C multi class, there is a world of difference between a dwarf and a human. With the throwing hammer, saves etc it can greatly affect your experience as well. Looking forward to your updates.
Why I like Dwarven Cleric/Thief -
The ShieldMaiden
Tanky mofo: Heavy Armor, Helmet, full points in sword and shield, 19 con plus tome / buckker for natural hp regen, saving throws to due die for
Poimts in detect illusions , sanctuary allows for removing mirror images and improved invis etc
Points in set traps, sanc to scout, set trap, use skeletons to lure enemies into traps
Dwarves can just set dex to 12 and get some gloves
Damage per round will be low due to low attacks per round and restriction from weapon specialization but draw upon holy might and righteous magic helps out a lot. If i really need my cleric to contribute to dps, i just go grab the wand of heavens (or UAI eventually)
Low damage per round
I like this, while I gave some classes a "3", that's in the "You're Gonna Have Fun" tier that I have in my tiny little brain and this sounds like a lot of fun!
Not every class or character has to be an engine of destruction, this character design sounds great for a lot of support abilities! You'll probably need to make sure they have decent Strength to wear the heavy armor but otherwise this is solid!
@@Redjoy123 heck yeah, she was part of a 4-dwarf party on a quest to retrieve a fabled goblet that could heal all wounds with but a single sip. Her companions were durlag the dwarven defender, kiel the cleric of helm, and fuernebol the fighter cleric. Her name was islanne.
Cleric/Thief is restricted to Gnomes and Half-Orcs.
Here's the thing about inquisitors, you're right that they are a bit of a one trick pony but it's one hell of a trick! Shutting down ALL magic might screw over a party but it will also wreck anyone at high levels, especially with that 2x power behind it.
In fact, I'd say that archers are also a bit of a one trick pony as well, right? They stick to the back and fire shots at targets, hoping to be able to hit things with high powered weapons, and being the ranged damage masters of the game. I love your ranking of archers, totally agree, but I'd just say that inquisitors should get a little higher, maybe a 3? 3.5 even?
I also have a hard time with inquisitors being ranked lower than monks (ranked at a 2.5). Inquisitors have a purpose, monks lack that without mods.
Maybe, but I'd say that Archers' one trick is to cause damage from a distance, which can take down anybody. The Inquisitors' one trick is to take out magic users and, to some degree, rogues who abuse invisibility. One can impact everybody while the other is against certain opponents.
thanks for the Vid. Some thoughts:
Cleric/Warrior Multiclass: imo. a clear 5 (you gave it 3), probably the best non-arcane class in the game and it's imo better than the Warrior → Cleric dual option, given the role it plays:
1. The beefiest fighter type / "tank" w/o much buffing; still has great damage output
2. Weapon restrictions don't matter, since Flail of the Ages and Defender of Easthaven fit the playstyle really well
3. Access to Warrior HLAs (which the dual class is missing) synergizes really well with the defensive cleric kit (Hardiness + Armor of Faith + Defender of East Haven give you perma 90%(?) Damage mitigation)
so far it's a more slowly leveling Paladin. But:
4. can be Dwarf -> much better Savingthrows, +1 Con
5. has much better Divine Casting and much earlier Divine Casting: Sanctuary, Silence, Animate Dead etc are incredibly strong in BG1 and early SoA; Level 5 and above spells are good for the lategame.
Shaman:
I think if everyone just ignored the stupid Dance, it would be rated higher. Druid spells are 90% garbage anyways, so there are only 3-5 "pickable" spells per level to begin with - and the ones you get, are quite strong. Thus it should be rated more or less equal to a Druid as a baseline. It starts out slower than a druid in BG1, but has a better leveling curve throughout the saga. Shortbows and Axes are an overlooked advantage for 2 reasons: Azuredge (must be of good allignment) and Tuigan Bow - both of which can be earned within the first hour of SoA and help tremendously during the early/mid game: Slaying undead and shooting various really strong Arrows at high speed. Shortbows also help in BG1, to compensate for the lack of level 5 spells compared to a Druid.
Bards:
All should be upped by 1 tier, their Strength's somewhat vary by the stage of the game:
Early: Wands and Scrolls
Mid: Casting Skulltraps, Remove Magic, Mirror Image, Stoneskin or Animate Dead @ Rogue/Bard xp table;
Pickpocket also gives a nice headstart in BG2 as you will basically start your journey with +50k gold, fully charged Wands, access to most spells/scrolls and potions
Late: HLA-Traps and Use any Item - and still Remove Magic
Given though, that playing a Bard to its powers requires strong metagaming
All great points!
I really rate Thief/Cleric. I normally play SCS, but last year played a base game no reload duo (made two characters at the start) The main was a Fighter (13) that dualled into Mage, and the other was a Thief/Cleric. They were most useful early on and acted as essentially a handler until the Fighter/Mage got going. Even at the end the traps were invaluable.
Never actually used one for SCS, but I might try when my current no reload inevitably is cut short.
So I used to hate on Thief/Clerics, but lately I've been very impressed the utility ability that they have. I end up taking Tiax in a bunch of runs I do, not just because he summons Ghasts but also because he can walk into a dungeon, summon a bunch of goons to help out the front line, then heals them up afterwards.
Every Baldur's Gate player praises the Priest of Lathander, but I am a Priest of Helm fanboy. Free True Sight and a +4 magical weapon available from level one? Yes please.
I also like the flavour of the Priest of Tempus (Branwen ❤️), I like me some chaos occasionally.
I get that chaos element being fun occasionally, and compared to other kinds of chaos (Wild Magic) it's pretty mild, I just thing that you get a bit more from being a Priest of Helm or Lathander than Tempus.
I do think that Priests of Helm need to be careful regarding rushing into melee combat with that +4 weapon, no telling how long they last against tough warrior enemies.
@@Redjoy123 Well, limited uses per day and logic dictate that Seeking Sword should be used in exceptional circumstances, boss fights for instance. It only lasts one round per level, if I remember correctly, so I won't be wasting it against gibberlings and kobolds.
The fact that a Wizard Slayer can Dual Class into a Mage is beyond funny to me.
That's a very strange combo, I guess it can work, but the point of being a Mage is to use magic to do damage and certain magic items that do magic damage or have magic effects. A Wizard Slayer can screw over casters with physical attacks but not with spells.
I still think that Wizard Slayer dual class to Thief is an interesting combo.
25 years later and this game still has the hearts and minds of many players.
Absolutely! I would say that it's pretty much due to the inherent random dynamics of dice rolls and chances that any combat situation can have. There's a big difference in a battle if your main character makes that Save vs. Spell with Horror or whatnot. That, and the characters! Not just the companions, but the baddies, the allies, and everyone in between.
Nice summary. You did forget the Druid to Fighter dual class - I guess you'd rank it similarly to the Cleric to Fighter dual class?
Gah! Yes, you are correct! That's similar to Druid to Fighter, I don't think it's a good option because you'd lose quite a bit, with increased spell casting and making a Fighter with fewer hitpoints, so I'd give it a 2. Maybe if you get Ironskins or Insect Plague, it's okay, but anything sooner than that then you're going to face a challenge.
If you use Sword Coast Strategems, Wizard Slayer and Inquisitor are top tier. Your tier list is ok for default settings, but not SCS.
Disagree.
Wizard Slayer loses access to way too many good items that provide elemental and damage resistances. No magic rings, no magic amulets, no magic bracers, and depending on your installation, no magic boots or belts. Sure, they can take out Wizards and casters, but lots of SCS enemies are incredibly powerful outside of arcane and divine magic. I would much choose a Fighter that can use items to protect themselves through lots of different ways other that just praying that the clickable abilities (Hardiness) will be enough to save my skin. Yes, there are weapons and armor sets that can reduce certain resistances, but they don't provide everything you need to avoid getting wrecked in SCS (that being said, I'm open to Wizard Slayers if they Dual-class to Thief then get the Use Any Item HLA, then you'd be cooking with gas!).
I have been slightly too harsh on Inquisitors but they aren't top tier. True, they have an awesome Dispel Magic if unmodified, but that also removes magical buffs on the party (which can be worth the sacrifice if the enemies cast something devastating on the front line). But what would an Inquisitor do against a Fire Giant that other Fighters or Paladins couldn't do better? Other Paladins get divine spells for necessary protection while Fighters can rely on offensive capabilities of weapon grandmastery to kill before they are killed. Inquisitors end up needing to stay in the back firing missiles at enemies until they need to use the one ability they have
I think you are assuming that SCS is all about casters and that's not really the case. Played on maximum difficulty, lots of non-caster enemies can be devastating to a party. I don't want to underplay the danger of enemy casters, but a dragon, mind flayer, vampire, or fire giant can be much more dangerous than "Yaga Shura Mage #26," even when they don't use their spells.
@@Redjoy123 I didn't find Wizard Slayer's weaknesses an issue at all chucking axes as long as I had illusion removal. It was enough to shut down the mage so I could concentrate fire on the other enemies.
With the Inquisitors you get True Sight and Dispel casting speed at 1. The speed is a lifesaver. Sometimes Detect Illusions doesn't pick up enemies and casting an anti-illusion spell takes time and costs spell slots.
I really make sure the party has synergy and depend on that. It's easy to make up for the WzSl and INQ not being able to tank. The point of your video is which class is best by itself, so its different than how I play. Like for me, single class Kensai is a 5, because I make sure the party can tear down protections and illusions in a jiffy. By himself, Kensai is kinda useless but with support he's a freakin monster.
So our criteria are different is really what it comes down to.
@@oodo2908 I accept that. It definitely depends on strategies are used and, if you ever see my strategies, you’d see that I mostly rely on peeing my pants and praying to way too many deities. 🤦🏻
Now then… time to do another laundry.
@@Redjoy123 What? Hahaha!
Interesting... I'm not really interested in dual-classes, but if I keep it to the simplest iteration keeping only the 5/5 options, would make the first 4 members of the party Berserker, Druid, Shadowdancer & Dragon Disciple... with 2 slots available for whatever one might want (either 2 companions or 2 more self-made character). I usually struggle with a good pure thief, so might try the Shadowdancer on my next run.
I think for the 2 extra slots, I would pick a pure mage, and a dedicated archer (which is usually pure fighter, but the archer class is also not too shabby). So the mage/sorcerer wont fight for the scrolls at all, and get one more solid wand user, and no competition for the bows either.
I never fancied the Dragon Disciple... The extra constitution looks VERY good on paper, but aren't mages locked from any gains past 16com? Tho a BhaalSpawn Dwarf (19) + tome (20) + DD (22) would be absolutely sick if it counted... do you still AT LEAST get the regeneration even tho you don't get bonuses for HPs past 16con ?
I believe you do get the passive regeneration with Dragon Disciple at 20+ Constitution.
Pure thief can be good for folks just coming into the game but has limitations later on compared to Shadow Dancers and Bounty Hunters.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the base game, totemic Druid doesn’t lose any Druid HLA’s.
You might be correct, though I'd still think it's the most challenging of the Druids. Shapeshifters can be nice combat druids and Avengers have a purpose on the backline. Totemic Druids can summon their Spirit Animals.
In the base game the Totemic druid is the best of the druid subclasses. It only looses the ability turn into animals and gains a summons that gets more powerful as the druid levels up. In the base game the Totemic druid can still turn into elementals. @@Redjoy123
My Personal Favorite is Swashbuckler. Challenging at low levels, but really shines at higher levels. I reaaaally like the FMT too, as Im a all around player who likes multiples angles to a situation. Blade is also nice but takes a lot of Micro Managing. Personnally I would like a lot if you could be a Drow FMT
So you could create a FMT as an Elf with the Drow coloration. It wouldn't quite be the same with abilities/disabilities or resistances and wouldn't be recognized as being Drow, so yeah, I feel ya.
You really don't need to do the whole "this is just my opinion" disclaimer. In middle school, everyone should be taught that the whole reason you are speaking/writing is because you are stating an opinion (even simple factual statements fall under "opinion"). Therefor, it's understood. If people want to get angry about it, that's on them and no disclaimer will prevent that. Meanwhile, the disclaimer just makes you look timid/unsure of yourself. Speak from your chest, man!
Appreciated, but this being the internet, I see it as a 'Quasi-Functional Disclaimer' to use if someone gets butthurt because I gave a class a 5 instead of a 4 or if I say a companion is kinda crappy instead of saying they're total dogcrap. Certainly not necessary, but it's a semi-functional CMA.
@@Redjoy123 Yeah but I'm saying it's pointless. The people who want to get butthurt will, regardless of what you say. This is the illusion of diplomacy but in practice it does nothing. Ignoring the butthurt people (or debating them in a friendly way, if that's enjoyable to you) is the only rational approach. And yes, I just made a very black and white statement there, with no disclaimer ;)
salve do Brasil brbr
E venha dos EUA!
kensai-I've seen varying arguments over this, with some people saying it's better than berserker for mage or thief duals, while others say the kensai class is actually best as a single class that doesn't dual away so the bonuses to damage and such keep stacking higher and higher, and focus on using throwing axes or daggers-daggers especially being nice with the boomerang and firetooth dagger not only doing 2d4+ damage compared to regular dagger 1d4 damage, they also get a base 2 APR, even when using them in melee. I personally prefer berserkers by far, and berserker mage is my favorite class combo, next to sorcerer
paladins-cavalier is definitely my favorite kit
druid-is this rating based on the SCS shapeshifting tokens thing? From what I understand that mod gives you an equippable token that activates the shapeshifting thing, but they can be swapped out at any point, even mid round, to change resistances and such. With that in mind, they're definitely incredible classes with their flexibility with shapeshifting, though that does mostly have to wait until high level. Base game druids with once a day shifting and taking a round to change in or out of form really suffer though, even though there are a couple of truly brutal spells for druids at spell levels 5, 6, and 7
mages-I think illusionists do fantastic as your secondary caster, rather than your main caster. Losing skull trap and horrid wilting is really bad, but their extra spell slots allow more uses of all the support spells you probably don't want your primary mage to have to cast. Them also being the only kit that can be a multiclass beause of the gnome thing is also a thing in their favor
wild mages-if you allow reloads I'd say they're probably a 5 actually, the reckless dweomer spell is truly ridiculous late game, though perhaps that rating should be knocked down to 4 because even if they have late game incredible power, most of the saga is spent praying you don't petrify yourself or blow up your entire party. No reload games-I wouldn't even give them a 2, they're a flat out 0 because of how RNG they are and the constant risk they could nuke the save file at any moment with no warning
bards-baldes are probably the best kit, since their only real weakness-bad bard song-gets erased at high levels. Skalds are really good supports, but their song eventually gets replaced by the superior enhanced bard song....still, you have to get that far to have that happen, so their earlier support and their main gimmick getting replaced doesn't make them useless
Sorcerer-I swap it with sorcerer as 5, and dragon disciple as 4-losing that 1 cast a day per level is actually a pretty hefty penalty since it's the exact inverse of one of the major boons of the specialist mages class which get an extra slot per level. +2 consitution eventually is nice, but not much help on mages since anything over 16 con doesn't boost their HP, and slow constitution based HP regen is nice, but by the time that kicks in you probably have other ways of restoring HP a lot faster. Eventual immunity to fire is a definite boon though, so that is a big point in their favor.
monks-eh...they're all 1 for me, with sun soul being a 0.5. Dark moon is probably the best because of having access to vampiric touch, blur, and a few other neat spells, but they still aren't great. Even the 'eventual late game power' they get is still pretty mediocre, with one of the worst things about their class being the way BG1 and 2 did free action-they're immune to haste effects starting from level 5, meaning they'll never get the high APR most fighter classes can achieve with haste and improved haste.
Blasted Damnation! I'm stuck with a picture of my Bhaalspawn as an elf ranger archer, and I wanted to replay. Let alone the fact that I'm about to do it as the same character, I do remember my frustration on higher levels, when there were nothing interesting to acquire, most of the time I just shot whith a bow as a more efficient approach. So I went out to look how to make it more diverse and... hell, this is indeed looks pretty boring, there is no way to multiclass ranger with anyone so it made sense or had the possibility. I like the roleplay element though, probably gonna stick to it anyway 🥲
I can appreciate that. I will say that you can change your portrait/picture at any time (from the Customize option on your character sheet then to the Appearance option) so you are certainly not stuck with that portrait.
I get the annoyance of having one particular option in combat, even if it's a great option (like the Archer kit). I value them super highly because they are the best at what they do for ranged combat but then I get annoyed with other kits that are great at what they do but it's just one thing (@notalefty999 has called me out on that regarding Inquisitors).
I recommend trying out a Fighter or Paladin kit, they usually have a lot of different playstyles to them if you want to vary how to go in and out of combat. If you'd like to try out magic, give them a try! That will also give you a HUGE variety as to how you'd want to play the game and adds to the strategy options.
@@Redjoy123 I may have puted my words incorrectly😅 what i meant by "picture" is the protagonist image in my head, Ael the Good-Neutral elf ranger, and I couldn't think of anyone else taking his place in the story. That is part of the reason I tend not to replay any game: I created my story, It's my headcanon, how can I allow it to be replaced?🫤 Though now I have reconsidered my approach, the next walkthrough won't be much different than the first one, but some minor changes are in order, the Ael's personality even, guess we need to change to develop🤔