Palpatine was correct, Vader was weakened whenever he faces anything in his past, like obiwan. When Vader was facing reva, it was effortless. He has no attachment to her at all. But obiwan brings all the emotions of his childhood and Jedi years. Obiwan was his brother figure and no matter what, he is not yet stable enough to deal with it. Hence why The light side of Anakin came out for a split second when he said that he wasn’t his failure.
So cool to see that some other fans intepret this this moment the same way I do! I freaking loved that scene! So I keep commenting this under respective videos 😅: "The most powerful thing to come out of this show for me and one that actually adds a great deal to the characters we love (Anakin/ Vader and then Obi Wan), if you allow it to become your canon, is that dialogue between the two. Some of the most meaningful moments in fiction are actually the ones which leave room for interpretation! When Anakin/Vader tells Obi that he didn't kill Anakin, but he himself did it (after Obi apologized to him), it almost seems like there is the light side shining through, as Anakin wants to lift Obi Wan of that burden, of that feeling of guilt. He himself is now taking responsibility for the way things went. I mean, was he really ready to kill Obi Wan? He wanted, but then again he didn't want to. After all he decided to bury him, instead of actually killing him in a way where he can be certain. He then walked away. On the orher hand, it could be that telling Obi Wan that he (Vader) killed Anakin, is the dark side, his massive ego really embracing what he has become and owning that path, taking away from Obiwan that he could possibly have had a part in shaping his future, telling him that he wasn't significant enough so he could have possibly done that, thereby trying to hurt him even more. I personally lean towards the former, also because of hayden's voice when he said the part about Obi not having any part in it. Then again, when he said "I did!" it's realy vadery and kind of evil. I don't know, maybe its both. The character stays ambivalent after all and holds sort of two peole. So who knows. Either way, seeing Anakin like this and hearing what he had to say, lifted the burden of guilt from Obi Wan and he could finally be free again. Very very powerful scene for me!"
This would make sense if Vader was emotional during their first encounter but he wasn’t. He was calm and collected. The first interaction would’ve been the struggle for Vader to deal with.
Like Kenobi says in Rebels: “If you define yourself by the power to take life, the desire to dominate, to possess… then you have nothing.” He knows Anakin still hates himself for losing Padme. Vader’s rage and emotional instability is how Kenobi was able to win. He just used it against him and stayed level-headed.
He used it against him in the flash back too. But that’s what I don’t like about Kenobi. Instead of instilling strength through encouragement, he just manipulated Anakin to get the higher ground. It’s obnoxious. And why, I’ll, Kenobi is a failure. He absolutely failed Anakin. Every. Freaking. Time. He just doesn’t get it. But Luke did. ❤️
@@bornwithoutboundariestarot although I think you have a point in some regards, if you watch The Clone Wars you’ll see that Anakin was always a loose cannon, and despite Obi-Wan’s best efforts, he was always jumping the gun. Obi-Wan tried to use experiences to train Anakin, but he was too thirsty for power to adhere to his master’s guidance. I don’t think you can blame Obi-Wan for that.
@@bornwithoutboundariestarot That wasnt manipulation that was a lesson to Anakin showing that his drive for power will inevitably get him nowhere, and his opponents will use it against him. And Anakin didnt listen🤷♂️
I was torn apart when Anakin spoke... and then Vaders voice said "remains". This is the best line in Star Wars ever. So emotional. Everything came together in that just one sentence. Goosebumps.
The red lighting on Vader's scarred face and his ragged, rattling breathing also lends a certain 'zombie-like' quality to his appearance. You really get the sense that Vader is the twisted, broken, and hollowed out corpse of what used to be Anakin Skywalker. 😢
No I think he yelled Kenobi because he wanted to finish the duel and kill him. Vader made it clear to Kenobi that he wasn’t responsible for Anakin’s turn to Vader. In other words, he doesn’t want Obi Wan’s help. If he did, he would have left with Obi wan.
This makes me a bit sad. I never thought about the physical pain he feels in the suit. He is the most iconic villain of all time, but also the most tragic.
It's a hill i'm willing to die on, but anakin skywalker/darth vader is *the* best character ever written. Granted there is so much material about him that it's hard for him not to be extremely well fleshed out, but he is the most tragic example of what happens when our inner demons win.
@@semperfiyorkies6084 the suit was a punishment for vader, and basically once vader lost to kenobi sidious decided that vader was no longer worthy of taking his place as the dark lord of the sith, but sidious realized that even weakened vader could still fuck up his day so decided to make him weaker to make it easier to kill him since he no longer had any intention of letting vader take over. That's why sidious was constantly trying to replace him, he wanted a new apprentice and the first test for this new potential apprentice was to kill vader, but vader is too stubborn to die and keeps killing them so sidious is kinda stuck with him.
Broke my heart watching Obi wan realize that at this moment Anakin was gone. I loved how it ties the "from a certain point of view" when Ben told Luke that Vader killed Anakin
I also like how he called him "Darth" when he said goodbye, like how he did in A New Hope. I think it's Obi Wan's way of calling him a generic evil Sith. He knows he is called Vader but only calls him Darth.
@@TerryKashat yeah but people hated the prequels because it was missing emotional weight and conversion to Darth Vader was very rushed. The dialogue in Obi-Wan Kenobi series was reminiscent of Return of the Jedi between Vader and Luke. The prequels didn't have that depth for some reason.
Exactly I say this whenever people say kylo is trash because he lost to rey and struggled with finn kylo was stated to be conflicted and weakened after killing his father and its stated rey got a determination amp and became one with the force to defeat kylo
Yeah but it does get a bit tiring after a while. In a good part of the Star Wars duel there’s always someone holding back or toying rather than fighting. It wouldn’t be too bad if it weren’t the majority of the duels we get to see in this universe.
Ewan is the embodiment of Obi Wan. Dude was born to play the role. He was always my favorite of the Jedi only behind Qui Gon. Man saw the whole universe fall apart and still follows his mission. I hope we see another season
I feel like during the conversation after Kenobi broke Vader's mask, Anakin was almost trying to talk to Kenobi through Vader. When Vader said "I am not your failure" or "you didn't kill Anakin Skywalker", it's almost like Anakin was trying to apologize and saying that he blames himself for his downfall, not Kenobi. And then Vader takes the wheel again and says "...I did". Finally when Kenobi leaves, and Anakin/Vader start calling for him, it has a double meaning. Vader wanted to finish the duel with Kenobi and finally kill him, but Anakin was basically saying "please don't leave me" just like Kenobi had left him in ROTS.
He said "I am not your failure" as he doesn't consider himself to be a failure, as he still mostly believes he made the right choice. He also says he killed Anakin because he is saying that Anakin died once he transitioned into Vader and joined the sith. Whilst an interesting thought, I don't think its very likely that he was saying these things as anakin through vader.
@@croftsy2135 I agree with the top guy. Between it being anakins voice, the lack of sith eyes, and him being thematically covered in blue light when he’s saying I’m not your failure, you didn’t kill anakin skywalker, to the transition to the complete opposite from “I did” and on plus the emotional sadness in anakins voice versus the anger in Vader’s. It’s pretty clear imo that’s what they were going for.
@@butterflymage5623 @Croftsy I also agree with OP. I mean, at least that's the BETTER interpretation for my taste anyway, regardless of the actual intention of the writers: for Anakin just witnessed Kenobi deeply hurt, deeply guilty, apologizing for Anakin's downfall... We know there has to be a bit of good Anakin deep inside, and we know the actual result of Anakin's words: Kenobi overcame his guilt. I would rather believe the good side in Anakin did that deliberately, than Vader just stupidly did a favor to Kenobi, on top of losing the battle. Indeed, I can only believe Vader lost that battle if his good side was THAT prominent all along, if that was the effect of Kenobi's presence - then I can even find plausible why Vader would go for just burying Kenobi under rocks: way to avoid actually killing Kenobi FOR SURE, without having to admit to himself any emotional conflict. All that is in line with how Vader "works" when it comes to Luke.
There are those who interpret anakin and vader as two different entities and there are those who interpret anakin is vader transformed. I think the ladder is true. The split personality isn't common in star wars, it's only really prevelant in the story of anakin because he has always been so conflicted, up until his final moments with Luke in ep 6. It makes more sense that he has allowed/allowed himself to be vader due to the consequences of his own actions and suffering rather than the personality of vader takes over him leaving him sunken where he can say something like "don't leave me ".
I agree. The blue on his face and temporary lack of sith eyes shows that Obi-wans apology touched him, and by him saying that he is not his failure is just to make Kenobi feel a little better and to not be hard on himself. ironically, to do this, it pulls on his self-loathing and rises up the darkside again.
I think we're also seeing Obi-wan just slipping into the Force in way that he hadn't yet. It's like the transformation that Kanan goes through when fighting the Grand Inquisitor. Obi-wan had time to accept what was about to happen and truly embrace the Force.
OB1 got his mojo back. They did an OK effort in showing that imo. Coulda/shoulda been way way better/epic though. Just look at the Mandolorian. Evertything they do for that show makes it feel freakin epic - which is fantastic. Why not do that for legacy Star Wars too huh? No? gotta make it bland so people forget about it? If true, that FKN SUCKS BIG STINKN ASS.
I really like the idea of Vader's suit being that inhibiting for him. The sheer delay on his mind-to-limb-movement means that every time we see Vader fighting he's *several* steps ahead of his opponents, that's so badass lol. It sells just how powerful Anakin is, I don't think any other Star Wars character would handle being in the Vader suit, at least not nearly as well as he does
Don’t you think that if Vader’s tech was truly so out of date initially - that he couldn’t have gone and put together/ sourced his own to upgrades later? I mean he has a history of being very good at building things from a young age…
@@bs_ms In canon Vader's armor was up to date and he routinely modified it to his exact specifications. Once he returned from his mission of bleeding a kyber crystal, Palpatine told him he could change the armor if he wanted. So what we see is what Vader wanted.
@@thewarner2139 isn't this what Vader wanted because the pain strengthening his contact with the dark side of the force, rather than having it 'optimised'?
@@chigi5461 Vader needed the armor to be optimal in order to fight at his peak. His body was already in constant pain. Even when he connected the armor, it was a painful process of piercing his skin and nerves.
I think Anakin came out while saying “you didn’t kill Anakin” in a way to remove the burden off obi wan and in a way say it’s not his fault. But Vader finished the sentence with “I did”, showing the conflict within Anakin even while speaking a singular sentence.
Definitely. Tiny bit of Anakin resurfaces for a moment, but hatred and rage of Vader shuts him down again. Plus, I don't know, but I have a feeling like he wanted to die there. That's why he was like "I'll destroy you", even though he knew it's literally not possible, he was barely standing and was still teasing Obi Wan, trying to get him to strike again.
@@michacieslak2346 exactly. I part of me feels like he wanted obi wan to kill him. Of course he wants to kill obi wan, but the way he yelled at the end made me feel like he didn’t want obi wan to leave him defeated again like in revenge of the sith, instead wanted him to put him out of his pain.
Obi Wan had just defeated him. I took it that he was speaking out of spite. "You beat me, but you can't pity me. I won't take your pity. _I_ did this, not you."
I viewed it as him saying he is not anyone's 'failure', that he is not a failure in any way. He believes he killed Anakin in order to become stronger and more powerful. The last thing he would do is cut Obi some slack.
My opinion is Obi-Wan tapped into the true nature of the light side. Loving but not attached, like Qui-Gon. This gave him the ability to use the force aggressively without falling to its power, similar to how Kanan was able to save the Ghost crew in Rebels
@Bingo I’d disagree there. Do you know the phrase “if you really love someone let them go?” I think this phrase means that you can love something without desire to gain personally from it. That’s where I get the idea that that is the true definition of the “light side.”
@Bingo there is such a thing lmao. it died with qui gon. you arent wrong that the jedi ideology is pathetic but the only one who could have done anything about the events that happened in episodes 1-3 was qui gon himself
I agree that it showed that love is more powerful than whatever Vader was feeling. There’s just no such thing as the light side though. There’s only the force
It’s also worth mentioning Obi-Wan found a second wind after he escaped from the rubble. Like when Qui-Gon died, Obi-Wan was emotionally in tune with the force and was fighting with power than he ever had before.
While I agree he got a second wind and was fighting with much more skill after the rocks, is it realistic from all we know about Kenobi that he could raise that many boulders and fling them at Vader? I am not familiar with all the novels, etc., just the movies.
@@evansanchez8722 Except he didn’t do anything very impressive with the force to defeat Maul or Anakin. That was pure lightsaber skill and tactical sense. Maul made a mistake by underestimating Obi-Wan which Obi-Wan took advantage of, and Anakin made the exact same mistake by trying to use the same move on Obi-Wan that Obi-Wan used to defeat Maul. Neither of these times did Obi-Wan demonstrate an uncharacteristic amount of force skill, he merely used his lightsaber skill and training to take advantage of his enemies weakness. Obi-Wan is a very impressive duelist, but the fact that he uses a defensive lightsaber style tells you that his strength lies in his use of a lightsaber, not his force abilities.
I could easily see Yoda, or possibly even Mace Windu demostrating such a crazy amount of force potential in the heat of a duel, but both their midichlorian counts were far higher than Obi-Wan’s. Obi-Wan is a strong duelist, not a strong force user. If he had such a strong potential to tap into, he could have used it to defeat Dooku. He could have even used it when he dueled Grievous. But he didn’t. He used his defensive lightsaber style to defeat all of his enemies, because that is what he was best at.
@@aarongolden5608 the prequels created this misconception that obiwan is not a skilled force user, whereas in the og trilogy he is one of few that becomes a force ghost so i dont really buy it
One of the coolest parts of episode 6 was just after Kenobi but Vaders mask, the sound Vader makes when he tries to take that first breath sounds so painful. I had headphones on and it almost gave my chills
I love the moment when they hold hands during a fight. In this scene, I had the impression that every such detail, gesture, movement, words are not accidental, and everything has meaning and is inspired by emotions - loss, anger, hatred, longing, sadness, revenge, love. And how Ewan and Hayden played it is amazing. The crying Obi Wan played by Ewan is so real. And especially Hayden deserves a mention after all these years, thank you for coming back because, oh Hayden, Anakin's voice and his eyesight broke my heart for the second time after many years when I was a child and I hid under my grandmother's armchair crying because I didn't want to watch Anakin falls and transforms into Vader ...
For so many years, I had a hard time reconciling the voice, speech patterns, demeanor of Anakin Skywalker with Darth Vader. They just seemed like two different people. But Hayden navigated and bridged that perfectly. When he started speaking with the damaged helmet, it all made sense
@@Killzoneguy117 Yes! I agree. It has always been difficult for me to imagine Anakin hiding in this man-machine. Anakin is the one who loved too much, the one who cared, and the one who lost everything. On the other hand, Vader is a ruthless, hateful machine and it seems that there are no dilemmas. Completely different persons. I fully agree. When looking at Vader, you always have to remind yourself from time to time that this Anakin is inside. With what Hayden did, you don't have to remember anymore because you know he's there. And you feel it. And it hurts you more.
What got me even more, was when Anakin slipped through for just a bit, and told Obi-Wan that he doesen't really blame him for everything that had happend. He blamed himself.
That's my biggest criticism of the show. Ewan McGregor is a great actor and his is supposed to be his show. The show should have focused more on Obi-Wan. I still loved the show but did not care much for the distractions that were Reva and others.
It makes sense to me that, because Vader is so physically limited, that he would focus his training on the force instead. I also found it interesting that, compared to Ep3, Obi-Wan was more the aggressor here instead of Anakin who was almost 100% the aggresor in ep3
My thoughts on it is that for years kenobi fought like how the jedi of that Era were taught, use no emotion. But in that moment much like qui gon Obi-Wan found that ignoring emotion isn't the way of the light. This allowed him to channel the will he had to fight for the children and the love he had for them. This meant for the first time kenobi fought with emotion, not with anger but with purpose. Just my take, then Qui gon saying he wasn't ready to see could be not just him using the force but him not seeing the true state of the light side like qui gon did.
@@creatorsfreedom6734 Yoda's dark side potential is mentioned by Dooku too in an inner monologue iirc , from around episode 2, so it's more an adaptation than a re write , Yoda does have a dark side, but Yoda's thing is to always choose the light anyway.
I legitimately believe Vader and Obi never actually wanted the other dead. They had so many opportunities - they both left each other burnt and didn’t go for the kill for example, which stands out to me. But also when Vader buries Obi and when Obi slashes Vader’s helmet. If they truly wanted the other dead, it would have happened way sooner than episode 4.
It speaks volumes as to how deeply enmeshed in one another Anakin/Vader and Obi-Wan are. It's like they're locked in this violent, painful, and brutally loving embrace. Anakin NEEDS Obi-Wan, simply cannot let his former master and brother go, even as he torments, rages against, and hunts him. Obi-Wan likewise still carries too much love for Anakin's memory to ever kill Darth Vader by his own hand. They're at an ultimate impasse, one which could only be broken by Obi-Wan cognitively splitting Anakin and Darth Vader into two separate entities...and walking away.
Honestly, I wish this battle would have ended in a flat-out draw with neither the clear winner. Obi and Vader need a draw where they both didn’t win or lose. Vader is ridiculously powerful and has been training (and hating) this whole time. Obi completely forgot his powers. He shouldn’t be able to suddenly out-do the chosen one who has been training and hating this entire time (even if Palp has gimped him). I feel like Obi got the “Rey” treatment
The battle ending any other way than obi-wan beating him would break canon. In a new hope when vader says the last time he left him 'I was but the learner, now i am the master'
I felt that Vader was bragging about having killed Anakin, but was also sympathetic to Obi-Wan, and was reassuring his former master in a way. He was telling Obi-Wan not to blame himself for Anakin's death. Sure, Vader smiles an evil smile behind the cracked mask, but I think a small part of Anakin was sympathetic to Obi-Wan's tears, and was helping his former master to move on from what happened on Mustafar 10 years earlier. It was a very emotional scene with so many layers. I loved it and I've watched it again and again.
I always thought of it as a force-induced split personality. Anakin lives on but is buried by Vader. The moments when he feel sadness and sorrow, that is when Anakin comes out. However, his hatred is what keeps him alive and so Vader has dominant control. Anakin retreats into Vader as a means of reluctant self-preservation.
I have a bit of a theory on the end of the fight. Vader knew that, in his injured state, he wouldn't be able to beat Obi-Wan. He wanted Obi-Wan to kill him, to end his suffering. Vader's greatest suffering is having to live in a world where Obi-Wan defeats him but chooses to let him to continue being what he has become. He would rather live on with no memories of the past, or not live at all.
The reva & Darth Vader fights was beautiful displaying his strength & ability with the force ! In the Kenobi vs Vader fight showed whos the master still ' obi wan ! '' blows my mind how on point you are in each video ! Truly the best star warz analysis UA-camr out there ! Great videos 💯👌
I really think Disney have a perfect opportunity for a Vader limited series here, set somewhere between Kenobi and Rogue One, really focusing intently on all the struggles he’s had becoming this hybrid of man and machine, the pain he still feels for what he’s lost, and the fear he has that he is not good enough and that Palpatine will replace him. Gods know there is enough material in the books and comics to draw from. The show can lean in to the increasing atrocity of Vader pitched against the residual goodness of Skywalker that never quite seems to disappear completely- and yes, please ask Hayden Christensen to reprise. He deserves it. Come on D+ we want moreeeee 😎 I’d also love to see a young Leia show, showing a slightly older Leia getting involved in the Rebellion.
I want vaders and palpatines relationship explored, I want to see palpatine training him, building him up, being nice to him, only to torture him minutes later, so we really, truly sympathise with vader, instead of viewing him as a maniac, he is just a slave to the dark side
I think having a Vader series would have a lot of problems. Besides the hard core fans, seeing a series about a guy in a full body suit isn't really that appealing.
Many good points have been stated here, but I haven't seen this mentioned - I loved the "technical" details of how Obi-Wan won against Vader. Kenobi starts out with Soresu (form 3, defense, what he used to win the first time), but as the fight goes on, starts to mix aggressive Ataru, Djem So attacks (Anakin's traditional style) and even Makashi (Dooku's fencing style and the one counter to Anakin's/Vader's). I think Vader was caught off guard by seeing this newfound aggression from someone who was always pretty much 100% defense; he never trained for this, of all circumstances. Midway in the fight you also see a shot that highlights the difference between an amateur like Reva and a pro like Kenobi. Vader does the "force block lightsaber strike" thing and instead of fighting against force power with brute strength, Kenobi uses the momentum of the push to spin and pin down Vader's blade before countering with an effective force push of his own. That's pretty much the real-life counter to someone "pushing you really hard" in martial arts too, just use their momentum against them and stop resisting, and usually they'll fall on their face or run into a wall (or you can throw them, but that's more complicated). Reva just tried to push back harder, and that was never going to work. But, even as someone with technically less "raw force potential", Kenobi handily won this, combining Soresu that disabled whatever assault Vader threw at him, with an unrelenting Ataru/Djem So assault that he never had to face from his old master, as well as the Jedi he might have killed. I also think a lot of this battle was psychological. Vader was flip-flopping, as you said, but Kenobi became "fully tapped" into the light side, when he focused on his primary objective of protecting Luke and Leia, and pushed back all the rocks - like he had never before. I think that, just as dark side users draw the most strength from hatred, light side users draw it from love, and here for the first time, Obi Wan truly gained sight of the people who he loved and was trying to protect. This was also a flaw of the old Jedi order, which almost encouraged suppression of emotions like love (indirectly, from suppressing attachment), and therefore crippled itself before the Sith even came into the picture. Obi Wan finally overcame this limitation, and I think it's beautifully symbolized in and interwoven with his more aggressive fighting style, because for the first time now he's fighting _for_ something and he NEEDS to win, instead of just passively defending the status quo that he was taught his entire life was the ultimate good (the Jedi code).
Good points. I too noticed and at least in my opinion, attribute his upper hand to the form switch. The only problem I have with it… we were handicapped to 6 episodes and weren’t really able to see any visible meditation or refresher training whatsoever to regain that confidence and ability. A Dagobah visit or even Qui-Gon reaching out prior to, could’ve provided more of an answer than just “oh looks like he’s back and using styles he’s never used before!” in a very limited amount of time
I feel like I'm reading world-class playoffs sports commentary but for lightsaber duels. Getting hyped for Kenobi's next match-up! Also I LOL'd so damn hard at "...highlights the difference between an amateur like Reva and a pro like Kenobi." 🤣🤣🤣💀💀💀 YES!!! Call me toxic but FUCK that noob Reva man! 🤣 We were ALL rooting for Vader in that fight, no matter who his opponent would have been unless it was Kenobi.
Awesome analysis for sure, but I disagree with a few things. First off, generally when Vader fights most of anyone else, he is more in tune with the dark side and thus much more powerful. I feel the reason he lost here is because as you said he is so conflicted, not because he’s close to Obi Wans power level. I thought that the 80% of Palpatine thing was now legends and that the new Cannon Vader is stronger in raw force power. It is even stated a couple times that he is more powerful, such as in Fallen Order. I always viewed it as Palpatine just had way more knowledge of the force and thus could apply his power better. That and Palpatine was 100% in tune with the dark side as compared to his apprentice would would become conflicted when confronted with his past. The new way cannon uses midiclorions isn’t the total amount present in the body, but the number per cell. It makes more sense im my mind as if it was number per body then Yoda would be much weaker. Therefore in new cannon I don’t believe Vader lost any. And lastly Vader is stated in several sources to be the best dueler in Star Wars, even above Palpatine and Dooku. If Vader wasn’t so conflicted while fighting and was able to keep a level head, I believe he would have won. That’s just my take anyways, no disrespect or anything. Awesome video tho!
You are correct about the 80% thing and the statements surrounding Vaders force power. That’s the dynamic between Vader and Palpatine, Vader has more raw power while Palpatine has more knowledge and can apply his powers better. Also that Vader is actually Palpatines apprentice instead of an outcast attack dog in legends
Yes. In canon Vader is no longer physically handicapped and it certainly doesn't affect his force potential. Dude's just too psychologically damaged to want to do anything with it.
Obi wan is one of the greatest duelists of all time too. He 100% mastered seresu and it's defensive capabilities, the longer a fight went on with an aggressive style (ala anakins form 5's) the more chance obi wan had of winning. What really spun Vader's mind in this recent duel, is the fact obi wan switched to Ataru (qui gons style and obi wans original form) vadar has spent years assessing a way to beat seresu only for old Ben to switch it up and have an ace in his sleeve mid battle. It's literally a turning point in the battle, many viewers picked up on him starting to do some cool new things like the behind the back hand switch etc, not actually realising they were witnessing him change forms. It was there for the true geeks.
The most unrealistic part I think is that Obi-Wan has not been practicing for 10 years (presumably). It's hard to believe that he has so much stamina, agility, and fighting ability without at least some prep time to get back in shape. Any athlete knows that if they don't practice for 10 years... welll, shit
You are all stupid. What does Yoda say in Ep. 5? A jedi's strength flows from the force. It has nothing to do with muscles or stamina. How do you think he does all those backflflips and shit against dooku and palps when he has a walking stick?
That’s what I thought as well but then I remembered how Yoda said that muscle matters not but how connected you are in the force. Meaning Obi-Wan being connected in the force so strongly aligned with his body as well
@@americanrebelking8337 adrenaline means nothing for stamina when out of shape. Short term maybe for 1-2 minutes then u would be out of breath. In fact, in mma, if benefits you to be calm. When you are afraid, you gas quick.
Obi-Wan was always more humble and reserved. Even when fighting an enemy he rarley went all in. Only when Maul killed Qui-Gon (Obi-Wan shattered his double blad in just a few seconds) and when engaging Vader he went for the kill stroke once it was beyond clear that Anakin was not there anymore.
Hayden's performance was THE GOAT in star wars lore imo, it followed on from his prequel performance succinctly and realistically portrayed his character's fall to the dark side in its darkest depiction yet. The eye colour in the final fight sequence provided the perfect juxtaposition to his eventual redemption. With respect to the timeline this series was emotionally spectacular and a great conclusion to vader and kenobi's cannon appearance prior to episode IV, theory you are the best SW UA-cam artist of all time
@@jonataspereira1691 His dialogue was pretty bad and Lucas' direction on his acting wasn't great, but he had moments where he showed his acting can be good, which proves his "bad" performance isn't because of himself, but because of outside factors.
I agree bro. I have always loved Hayden as Anakin ever since I was 7 when I saw AOTC. I think most people mistaken his acting for his performance. His acting was directed by George. But his performance is himself. He gave his all to play Anakin. And he still is. He loves playing Ani and it means so much to him. Just as much if not more than Ewan playing Obi-Wan. What gets on my nerves is all these people acting like they loved him in the prequels when 90% of people back then didn’t like them.
Obi-wan told yoda that he would not kill Anakin under any circumstance he stuck to that… on a side note damn ewan’s light Sabre work was truly awesome very well done! Behind the back, both hands, over hand, under hand, he hit Vader with everything! That’s being total committed to the part hats off to great acting!! I hope they carry on the obi-wan story line just because the cast I think they have so much to add to the full story
When Obi-wan says he’s sorry, It genuinely looks like “Anakin” is doing everything in his power to hold onto his rage and anger. This whole scene is fucking tragic.
Vader had more force potential, and was in his prime. Either than Disney being hot garbage, he could've only lost to Obi-Wan by being drawn back to the light through emotion thus losing his power.
More flashbacks were needed and a whole dedicated episode to Anakin and Obi Wan would have been an absolute treat.. I still enjoyed it. I hope to see a vader series.. To dive deeper into the conflict between anakin and vader, his search for padme through the force, fighting with palpetine etc.
I would love a series on him, I want to see rogue one Vader. He did not look powerful at all. I get it that you have to follow the story and we know how it ends, but it didn’t feel like blow alderaan up while leia watches evil. I want to see more of that
I think we see it in the flashback he never learned everything there was to learn to become a Master Jedi but Obi-wan did. Obi-wan was granted the rank of Master because he proved that he could. Being strong in the force is one thing but learning to Master your feelings is even more important. Even Vader said in a New Hope that he was but a learner the last time they met.
You could even argue that Vader learned from the mistakes in this duel hence the caution when fighting obi-wan in episode 4. But Obi-wan was again a step ahead.
Kenobi knew win or lose, he won. Becoming a force ghost and achieving immortality is a spit in thr face to the guy who literally fell to the dark side seeking the answers to immortality in the first place lol.
I think its a perfect fit for why they fight so fridgetly in ep 4 even if it was in the 70s and ghey literally couldn’t touch sabers because they would break
The slight smirk when Vader says he killed Anakin was horrific. Hayden did an amazing job. Sidebar: I think this season would have been more accepted if Disney just dropped the whole season at the same time.
I've been thinking about this a little. This series should have been 3 episodes rather than 6. Keep most of the intro and episodes 5 & 6. Cut out the filler and the ridiculous chase scenes (like the 1st episode, they only had to show up to Leia getting surrounded, we can figure it out from there geniuses 😂) Also the 2nd capture was unnecessary and the Fortress Inquisitorius section could be cut (or just completely reworked) I don't want to go into specifics as it'd be too long a comment. I do feel that an overall running time of 3 to 3.5 hrs condensed into 3 episodes would've worked better.
No just people are too impatient and cant wait for things to play out. Everybody criticizes the littlest of things and just tries to make morale low. Just like people complaining about the 1st Kenobi and Vader fight in Episode 3 or people complaining saying the GI is dead and now rebels isn't canon when in reality the GI is still alive as shown in the end of Episode 5. Also people still wanting to complain about a chase scene with a little girl. I mean yeah the chase looks cheesy but it isn't going to pull me out of the show. People just need to let things play out then make your judgements. One thing is for sure...you cannot please everybody.
As someone who is still kind of new to star wars but inadvertently listening to these videos in the background when my husband watches them, it wasn't till I watched kenobi when I really understood darth vader and finally could see past some of hadens performance as anakin in 1 2 and 3. Seeing this side of him has really helped me to connect the dots in between 3 and 4 and this fight with obi wan was enough for me to want a vader series and really see the conflict and what happens in that 10 year gap and that is something I'd never thought I'd say for someone who never even wanted to know what star wars was about...
His performance served a purpose that you now understand. Most things you don't get about prequels come with age and with the understanding of SW universe.
Easily the best scene in disneys Star Wars reign, anakin and vaders voices combining, and giving us the first real feeling that they are the same person. Always felt as though they were separate people. And the pure emotion kenobi shows! I personally fricking loved obi-wan series.
Kenobi was calm and clear headed when fighting Vader, he knew what he had to do. Vader was overconfident after overpowering Kenobi from the first encounter, the same exact thing happened in Revenge of the Sith. Vader was also conflicted and wasn't as clear headed as Kenobi was. Anger clouds your mind, it makes you blind and you end up making mistakes. Towards the end of the fight, you see how clumsy Vader is fighting, he's struggling, his anger is not focused, he's trying for a quick victory. You can see how calm Kenobi is fighting Vader, whereas you see Vader struggling, with clumsy strikes, wielding his lightsaber with two hands after the first 40 seconds of the fight after fighting with one hand at the start. At that time, Vader knew Obi-Wan had his strength back.
One thing i like to think is obi wan switching to a more offensive lightsaber style upon getting out of the rubble also took vader by surprise. Since vader is very used to seeing obi wan use his defensive style. Not only was he trying for a quick victory, the sudden fighting style change made obi wan even less predictable.
Exactly. Kenobi was focused and had a real reason to fight, and call upon the force. Anakin was probably near his angriest, yet the only reason he had to win was to get back at someone, who he knew in his deepest subconscious, wasn’t even the real problem.
Kid that’s because Disney wrote and choreographed it that way. That’s IT. “Disney canon” doesn’t matter. Not one bit. In no universe would Kenobi EVER beat Vader by that point. That’s Vader in his prime. In the actual Lucas era timeline, Kenobi would never best him like that. Never. That was just stupid. If you know anything at all about the actual timeline, if you’ve read anything at all, then you know that. Maybe they can do whatever they want in this horrible Disney timeline, but in the real timeline, the Lucas timeline, the “legends” timeline, Vader would slaughter Kenobi by that point. Period.
@@dazdavis7896 Legends was never George’s timeline. It was “you have creative license that I can overwrite at anytime” Anything outside TCW and the original 6 is gonna be made by someone else, hardly different from Disney doing it, so stop gatekeeping. George himself said Anakin was a 9 and Obi Wan was an 8.
@@paulmccormacksvideogamesan2912 Wouldn't be so negative when it takes every ounce of this channel to not just accept that Disney star wars has been poorly written and written by people who just don't care. Episode 6 was the most key jangling, member berry episode that it was just plainly insulting
I love how Obi-wan's deciding blow was with the hilt. The move he learned from Maul: the Sith Lord that killed Kenobi's master and decided the faith of Anakin. It's like poetry...
Indeed- it’s so like him too, since he was always looking for non lethal solutions as “the negotiator” yet at the same time always picked up on weaknesses since he was almost never as strong as his opponent.
also he defends against Maul AND Vader with a move, where he puts his arms over his head and deflects on his back. On maul it works, on Vader it fails :) and then taking moves from his enemy (mauls hilt-strike) to defeat vader
I think seeing Obiwan’s strength return awakened the Anakin-part of Vader that shows up from time to time. My theory is that Anakin let Obiwan win, and for a brief moment he held Vader back in hopes the Obiwan would kill him and end his suffering.
I was kind of hoping Obi Wan would make some kind of reference to Padme during his fight with Vader. Something like, "Padme would be ashamed of what you've become." Or something to that effect.
Another HUGE mistake on the script. The dialogue was little to nonexistant as far as the relevance to where the two characters should be right now, and the fight itself did nothing to move us forward. Good fight but total waste
@I’m on UA-cam When Obi wan struck Vader in his helmet exposing his face, almost fatally, he was weakened and his defenses were down. That would have been a good time for Obi-wan to point out how the reason why he wasn't trying to kill him and that he didn't try to before in ROTS is because he really does love him and believe that there is good in him, and also for him to bring uo the fact that the Emperor had deceived him and caused him to destroy everything that he said he was fighting for including Padme. This would bave forced Anakin to think about the truth of the situation and realize that the Emperor didn't really care about him or Padme and that he lied about how powerful he was and wanting to teach Anakin to be more powerful which he didn't. Then we could've went on from there, but instead they said basically nothing and they spared each other for no reason other than both of them canonically HAVE TO survive for us to get to Episode 4. You can be a fan and simultaneously admit that some decisions made were stupid, pointless, and should've been better.
I'd love to see more of Vader in future shows. It's been said many times already but a Vader show taking place very soon after ROTS would show us his early life in his new identity. Seeing Vader deal with losing everything and his eventual conclusion that his old self, Anakin Skywalker, is dead and he should fully embrace his new reality would be so damn awesome. I doubt Disney will make such a "depressing" show based on their supposed rejection of the first Kenobi Movie script.
yes, it would be cool to shoot the series as a kind of drama, for example, like the Joker, i.e. not action, but more emotional experiences, Vader's doubts and conversations with himself
The most powerful thing to come out of this show for me and one that actually adds a great deal to the characters we love (Anakin/ Vader and then Obi Wan), if you allow it to become your canon, is that dialogue between the two. Some of the most meaningful moments in fiction are actually the ones which leave room for interpretation! When Anakin/Vader tells Obi that he didn't kill Anakin, but he himself did it (after Obi apologized to him), it almost seems like there is the light side shining through, as Anakin wants to lift Obi Wan of that burden, of that feeling of guilt. He himself is now taking responsibility for the way things went. I mean, was he really ready to kill Obi Wan? He wanted, but then again he didn't want to. After all he decided to bury him, instead of actually killing him in a way where he can be certain. He then walked away. On the orher hand, it could be that telling Obi Wan that he (Vader) killed Anakin, is the dark side, his massive ego really embracing what he has become and owning that path, taking away from Obiwan that he could possibly have had a part in shaping his future, telling him that he wasn't significant enough so he could have possibly done that, thereby trying to hurt him even more. I personally lean towards the former, also because of hayden's voice when he said the part about Obi not having any part in it. Then again, when he said "I did!" it's realy vadery and kind of evil. I don't know, maybe its both. The character stays ambivalent after all and holds sort of two peole. So who knows. Either way, seeing Anakin like this and hearing what he had to say, lifted the burden of guilt from Obi Wan and he could finally be free again. Very very powerful scene for me!
I thought of Vader burying obi wan as Vader attempting to “bury his past”. Wonder if any other people thought this too cause I think it makes that scene even more interesting
@@olivermichalak7556 Also very interesting indeed! So there us just lots of symbolism in all of this. Also with the red and blue light alternating with shining into Vader's/ Anakin's face
@@simonl5074 obi wan is weaker than Yoda and Qui Gon in raw force abilities. You can see here that he struggles to hold up the same rocks that Vader can dispatch with ease. What makes Obi-Wan a more powerful warrior and fighter than Vader is his ability to use his surroundings and the weaknesses of his enemies to his advantage. This is how he was able to defeat Darth Maul despite being vastly disadvantaged. He struggles against Dooku when he fights him in isolated settings in episodes 2 and 3. But for most fights, Obi-Wan is able to use his surroundings to his advantage. I'm not being salty and I'm not being a Vader fanboy. If anything, I think this makes Obi-Wan pretty badass and cool. Vader is raw power with no discipline. Ob-Wan has less power but much more discipline and this is why hes the better warrior.
The force was with him when he realigned with his purpose which were the kids. Also the planet was a conduit of the force and he was able to tap into that. That is why he lured Vader to that planet. Obi-Wan has been around and he knows his way around the Galaxy. I'm sure the force brought him there.
“Have you come to destroy me” Was anyone else thinking this line could have been an opening for Ben to try to bring him back to the light.. and maybe he wanted to be brought back?
I actually agree with most of what is said… although something that I think should be mentioned is how Vader uses the force to increase his mobility in the suit. When I was watching the last Kenobi episode, all I could think about was how fast Vader was moving given his lack of mobility. As he was being overpowered, you can see his switch from his personally developed single-handed form and he starts using faster techniques more reminiscent of his form V training. I imagine he could only achieve these fast, precise movements utilizing the force to propel them.
There are a lot of Star Wars channels on UA-cam, but I always come to you for your content more than others. You are a true fan and don’t just reiterate what other people have said.
I actually feel that it was the opposite, I felt that Vader's anger toward Obi-Wan is what lead to his defeat. While hatred and anger are usually a good thing for a Sith during a fight, I felt that Vader let it blind him. (Side note: correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a Sith teaching about using anger but not letting it blind you? Anyway) Rewatching A New Hope, when Vader confronts Obi-Wan, he seems much more in control of his anger and levelheaded, unlike in the show where he lets out a guttural yell and charges in at the very beginning of the fight. In regard to Obi-Wan I felt that his guilt was holding him back, and that was the weakness Vader was referring to. When he was buried in the rubble and hearing the voices of the past, that was his guilt holding him back, but when he finally let go of it and focused on the future, i.e. the flashes of Luke and Leah, he was finally able to break free.
Vader usually relies on his monstruous strenght and power to overcome his opponent. But when he finds someone that can either hold off his attacks(like Obi Wan did), be even more aggresive than him(like Luke did) or simply overpower him(like Palpatine could) he is extremely vulnerable.
Look at Vader’s saber handling, too. Beginning of the fight, he goes in with one hand on his weapon, after Obi Wan starts pushing him a bit, Vader puts both hands on, he figured out quick that Obi Wan got his groove back, and wasn’t going to run over him like he did earlier in the series.
I've been watching your channel since like 2016 and it still blows my mind when I see your face in these videos. you helped me form the star wars nerd part of my childhood
I agree he has great moments but leaving Reva alive twice? Now disney are just trying to destroy the evil of a character. She survives as a kid then he doesnt kill her because she placed a tracker and then fails to kill her again so fails 3 times... The empire is a joke in disney star wars i didnt know that Nazi's cared about equality and hiring of women because for some reason the empire did...
The way that Ewan and Hayden acted in the damaged mask scene honestly caused me to tear up. They both portrayed the emotions perfectly. This paired with the best use of lighting in the entire series made it one of my favourite ever star wars moments despite the flaws of the show.
I don’t really see how Obi Wan managed to force push Vader twice, he’s not stronger than him and Vader wasn’t distracted. Perhaps it was because Vader was too focused on killing him. Also can Obi Wan actually lift that many heavy rocks at once and throw them, if it was Vader doing it then I’d get that. Probably just thinking of Leia gave him extra strength
Well obiwan is pretty strong in the force within his own right if you look at the lore but what i think happens when Vader fights people anakin loved and cared he’s not just fighting said person but Vader is also fighting anakin from within which is why his power seems to be hindered
not to mention he was able to also match Vaders physical strength and be better at offense than him... all that while he is 10 years with no training or anything
Dude I got chills because it was so epic when Vader stopped the boulder and was like "Ahh, Your strength has returned.... But the *WEAKNESS, STILL REMAINS* !
Ep 1: rescuing a kidnapped princess, finding the chosen one Ep 2: protecting a princess, exploring the universe of Star Wars, fighting bounty hunters Ep 3: a fight between a master and an apprentice, one of them ended up burning Ep 4: rescuing a kidnapped princess, infiltrating and escaping an imperial base Ep 5: the empire strikes back, stormtroopers right at the front gate Ep 6: epic lightsaber duel full of emotional turmoil that end the saga, one of the antagonist is turned back into the light after seeing Luke Skywalker It's like poetry, it rhymes
The circle is now complete. Because i saw it kn that sense i understood instead of being disappointed. Lots complained. But it came as a love letter to what George Lucas had done both to prequel and original trilogy. And seeing what they out to reference in both ks exactly this
Thematically this kind of works but if you break down the series of plot driving events this is what the show consisted of. Episode 1: princess captured Episode 2: princess rescued Episode 3: princess captured Episode 4: princess rescued Episode 5: Obi-wan captured and then escapes Episode 6: A final duel between Vader and his older master (which was awesome) and a repetitively troped out redemption arc for the supporting villain character (already seen with Vader, Kyle ren, Asaj ventress off the top of my head) I really liked some of the writing when it came to developing characters for ANH and retconning dialogue in that makes later lines in the sequels extremely powerful. However the overall plot driving this show was lazily written. The reva arc was an annoying nuisance that detracted from the other characters and for only a six episode series I think they were paced poorly.
I love Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. My uncle gave me a CD of it on one of my birthdays when I was a child and I listened to it so many times. What a great story. Also: I hope we are going to see Ian McDiarmid in Andor again as well. We get to see the Imperial Senate in live action for the first time, they have to give us a Palpatine speech or something like that. That would be so cool
They hinted that thinking of saving the children from the dark side (Luke and Lelah) gave Obi Wan the extra strength. Like a mama bear whose cubs are in danger. It's a very Disney thing.
I totally agree with this. Sometimes it's easy to forget while watching this series that this is only the beginning of vader and this is the first time he has faced obiwan since Mustafar. I'm not angry that obiwan beat him. It makes sense. Obiwan was able to get his strength back and center himself thinking about his true purpose. Vader is still conflicted and I think this is the most conflicted he will be until ROTJ. I love hoe that fight showed that. Not to mention his janky tech he is working with and most of his agility gone.
Fight should’ve ended after Vader buried Kenobi. He even called Kenobi master at that point and this connects it to the original trilogy when Vader said he was the leaner and kenobi was the master. Vader shouldn’t have lost. He’s in his prime and at this point is capable of defeating any of the prequel era Jedi. If this show took place maybe a few yrs after ROTS it would make sense for Vader to lose but, this is 10 yrs after and Vader has learnt a lot and has been hunting Jedi for fun whilst kenobi has been disconnected from the force and combat. Vader should’ve won ...
this resolution wasn't about powel levels. It was about Anakin's conflict and Obi-Wan's force clarity he gained from the adventure he was on. The same argument is made when talked about Anakins loss in ROTS. He lost because he was conflicted, not because he was underpowered compared to Obi-Wan, on the contrary- the chosen one was a favoured horse strength-wise.
He is not in his prime. He's more powerful in a new hope. All this was explained. In a new hope he became more used to his suit and most importantly he completely let go of his old self anakin. Vader is this series was still not at his prime. Vader in a new hope is honed, controlled, hatred.
As much as I enjoyed that final fight, I genuinely laughed out loud when Obi-wan went God mode and just started force throwing a hundred rocks at him. Was there ever any indication before that Obi-wan was that powerful with the force? That was like Yoda/Sidious level power, which he never really had.
I wondered about that but I'm fine with it. Lucasfilm has made worse mistakes. It could be explained that Obi Wan tapped into another level he didn't know he had.
But at the same time, Theory made a video about George talking about the different power levels of the Sith and Jedi in A New Hope and George said that Obi Wan and the Emperor were the same power level. I do think Kenobi was not naturally gifted with the force, he had to work hard to get to these levels but as said above, I think him using his love and hope for the Skywalker kids fueled him past even the power he had in ROTS.
I figure he just went Super Saiyan and tapped into power he didn't know he had - rising to the challenge and all that. I was more confused by how a clapped out old shuttle was able to withstand an assault from a brand new Star Destroyer for long enough for everyone to stand around talking for ages - or why Vader didn't just tractor beam it. Anyway much as I had my issues with this series, I think they really nailed the ending pretty well.
His original robotic arm beating superior to his newer limbs actually makes a ton of sense, and gives some extra explanation to why Vader so often opts for one handed lightsaber combat rather than a more secure grip he only resorts to when trying to beat down his opponent with power swings.
I am speaking as a real kenobi fan here. You are just talking about how vader is limited in his abilities, but I think obiwan grew much more powerful in this dual than ever before. In the past he only followed the ways of the jedi teachings wich limited him in his powers. Now he embraced his feelings for luke, Leia and past anakin (affection) and grew more powerful with his love for them. Since it's Disney this makes even more sense to me. With him becoming clear in his ways and vader not so much I think it's just logical he beats him at this point, basend on the assumption the most powerful jedi (obiwan is clearly one of) are not naturally a lot weaker than a sith apprentice. But then again, this is me speaking as a huge kenobi fan😍
Well, you are right. I am a die hard Vader fan (I love Obi wan a lot too) but Obi wan was literally his prime in that fight we have never seen an Obi wan as strong as this one. I mean literally when he used the force to lift all those rocks and other stuffs I was like oh shit! Vader you are f'ed :) . I think this obi wan without a doubt is a candidate to the greatest jedi duelist and maybe even on par with Yoda and Mace windu (in my opinion even better :)) I mean dude he literally destroyed Vader
I find it interesting that Obi Wan received a "power boost" when he thought of those that he was protecting in Luke and Leia. He gave into those emotions allowing him to be more aggressive but not to the point where he lost his control. I may be wrong but I believe that someone who is truly powerful in the force is someone who can balance the light and dark, who knows when to use those emotions to give them strength but not to the point where they lose who they are.
That was so cool you shouting out the DARK LORD novel. I went to the bookshelf and grabbed my old beat up hard cover, remembering what a great read it was. This is why you're my favourite STAR WARS critic/fan. You always give your honest opinion but mostly instead of bitching about the problems with the newest stuff (far too easy), you focus on STAR WARS at it's best and the all great stuff some of the newer fans might not have encountered yet.
With all the ridiculous feats he has in this time period (well, he should have, but he didn't because Disney barely knows who Darth Vader is), he would have the right to be overconfident and still beat Obi-Wan with low difficulty.
Or consumed by his own rage as well as overconfident. After the fight after saying to the Emperor he means nothing Vader decided to focus on his failure to improve himself especially since they’re part of the reason why he is in that suit which led to rebels, Rogue one and well I’m sure everyone got the rest. Oh for the record just for the heck of it when it comes to his personal enemies it would be a big wonder why Vader would lose his temper😏.
He lost because he was conflicted. His emotions were so messed up that he couldn't use the dark side appropriately. When he is calm he is pure destruction. However, he was emotional from the very first swing of the saber.
@Bingo Of course you would say that. Yeah, the show isn’t perfect, but that’s also true for anything that has been released, even Star Wars. Nothing is perfect, and nothing ever will be.
@@Arahan96 During episode 3 Obi-wan was terrified and inexperienced with the force. As conflicted as Vader was it wasn't nearly as bad as Obi-wan was at that time.
Well, Theory, please tell us your opinion about Obi-Wan’s evolution. We know, that you are a master in the Anakin/Vader knowledge, but also your unique attend to analyse SW characters should be a great deal in this question. I personally am interested in your speculation on Obi-Wan’s power level, skill, etc. obviously he is more experienced now, than he was before, even though he didn’t use the force for the past 10 years. The series show that he regained his abilities very fast and there are some tremendous factors, like his acceptance of the new ways of thinking beside the old Jedi teachings, especially on the attachments. Because we saw that now he received the power because of his feelings to Leia and Luke. I know that his ability to defeat Vader is mostly because of he is his former master. But I think many people doesn’t give him much acceptance. However I think that he is powerful Jedi and one of the best in his era. Please release a video on Kenobi, now that we know his new power level and abilities. Also please tell us the possible outcome of their match up on Death Star, cause I think he still had the power to oppose Vader at that time period. It obviously was his choice to sacrifice himself in order for the kids to escape. Thank you. Been a subscriber since I don’t know for how many years already.
The series did a great job with episode 6. Seeing Hayden under the mask and hearing his voice connected Vader and Anakin in a way we've never seen. It hit really different
beating vader a second time was dumb it make kenobi look like an idiot for not killing him. Badly written with a hero who is a serial killer but awe she didnt kill one little kid. Wow what a hero
I'm curious to get your thoughts on the dialogue between Anakin/Vader and Obi Wan. I felt it was some remnant of Anakin that said "Anakin is gone. I'm what remains" "I am not your failure, Obi Wan" I think this Anakin telling Obi Wan that he is responsible for his own decisions and shortcomings. This is also Anakin telling Obi Wan that the Anakin he remembers is gone and can't come back after the atrocities that he committed during order 66. There's no way for him to go back to that Anakin. And he sounds very sad about that imo. "You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker. I did" - this is Vader speaking. Totally maniacal. It's like a total 180 in facial expression, tonality etc. It's like we're talking to a totally different person in the same body. Brilliant scene. I loved it because it shows that there's a sad, broken Anakin inside of Vader that is crying for help and is sad about where his life has gone.
First, it was amazing having Hayden play Vader, and hearing his own voice speak to Kenobi after the mask was slashed open. Second, it was equally amazing hearing Anakin seemingly let Kenobi off of the hook by telling him that his master did not fail him, only to hear Vader come back and say that he killed Anakin. I felt that there might have been a missed opportunity for Kenobi to instill the idea in Vader that Anakin was still in there despite things. I think it's obvious that Vader overestimated Kenobi's ability by still thinking of him as weak and not realizing his own suit limitations against a Jedi as powerful as Kenobi, and one so powerful that Vader had not faced in his quest to hunt down remaining Jedi in the galaxy to that date. Kenobi could have finished Vader. Kenobi came back and fought like he did against Maul when Qui Gon was killed.
I feel that Vader really hates what he has become and deep inside and even with his systems damaged he was willing to fight with Obi Wan Kenobi to his last breath, even if he got killed by Obi Wan.
Hello again Jordan, always a pleasure to see your comments. I’m surprised that you’re still claiming Vader lost due to his confliction. You obviously didn’t pay any attention while watching the series. (And to all the times I’ve called you out on this). Vader lost, and the series makes it very clear why he lost, with the flashbacks and commentary that Obi Wan gives. Vader undoubtedly has more raw power than Obi Wan, even as Anakin he quickly became more powerful than Obi Wan as his apprentice. (As shown in the flashbacks). However, raw power alone doesn’t decide the outcome of a duel. Somehow a big portion of the Star Wars fanbase seems to think this, but it’s a simple minded view that is debunked time and time again. Vader lost, not because of his power level, but because of the flaws with his personality. Vader is impatient, arrogant and his desire to win blinds him. Obi Wan knows this, and even mentioned it during the flashback. While Obi Wan might not have the raw power of the chosen one, he definitely makes up for it with his wit. It’s why he was able to defeat Maul in 3 moves, even though Maul is arguably stronger than Kenobi.
Honestly I almost cryd when I saw Qui gon jin in the last episode, I went back to the watch party to see your reaction and I almost did again when I did
The real life reason is we need an explanation for why he was so clunky in the og films lol. I think the Canon reason is that the suit caused him more pain and that made him stronger in the darkside. Keeping his hate strong.
I have read that he did to whatever extent he could, which was limited, a lot of the stuff that would be needed to change for him to control better robotics would require him to remove some of his life support and also stuff conected to his brain i think botho of which could kill him.
In canon Vader did upgrade the armor multiple times. Palpatine spared no expense and gave him the best equipment. It's only in legends that he had subpar cybernetics.
Ewan *did* say that “This is a 100%, fully realized Vader”. I know that Ewan does not have authority over Star Wars but that is most likely what he was told by the writers.
Kinda wonder how Vader would react if in that moment, obiwan told him that he’s been protecting his kids from sidious and that it’s not too late to do the right thing
@@BlueLion1996 I get what you saying but Obi-wans lack off knowing how to talk to Anakin is why he always fails him he is just a Jedi in full throttle no proper social skills
I can’t agree with that, 10 years of killing Jedi and everything else vs no training not touching the force not touching a lightsaber, it was plot. I liked and hated this so I just wish he didn’t lose as bad its just hard for me to grasp it😹
Maybe if this was a year or two after ROTS but 10 years? Completely recontextualized Vader after his defeat in Rots he created his own Saber form to specifically overcome his armour completely dedicated to using his full extent of force ( unlike anakin) has crazy Feats and power , so at this time period Prime vader is considered to be more powerful than Anakin Mustafar and yet he loses to a 10 year past his prime obi wan ? and too add obi wan was considered to have one of the weakest connections to the force in the temple.... In these sort of fights you make plot reasons why its a draw like superman v goku you cant really have a winner so its better to have a Draw this just makes me think vader isnt a threat at any time obi wan without practicing can just beat him... Not to mention all the thousands of people vader will kill after this thats now on obi wan first time he thought he killed him this time he just walks away.. there is a comic issue next month that Vader is duelling Palps for the first time I was hyped.... now he cant even beat obi wan what chance does he have to even scratch palps sadly
yes, it's clear Vader was able to fight by this point, those troubles he had were something from the first year in the suit , not at this point where he's slaughtered every Jedi he's encountered for 10 years , also it's just weird Obi Wan apparently had zero connection to the force for 10 years, if this was set like 3 or 4 years after ROTS then maybe , but the state of those 2 made no sense with the time scale they used to have Leia feature more prominently
While everyone knows that obi wan was supposed to get the best of Vader this time, to setup the new hope line, I hate how it happened. Obi wan completely overpowered Vader the 2nd half of the fight which should be impossible for anyone in this point in time except for the emperor. I thought this fight should’ve been about Vader displaying his immense power of obi wan but obi wan somehow finding a clever way to outsmart Vader in the end. Just hard to imagine Darth Vader the lord of the sith being overpowered by a Jedi who had disconnected from the force for 10 years. Idk just my opinion
Your right how is it that Vader who has been hunting Jedi for 10 years loses to someone has not been training for 10 years and, I don't know why people said that Vader had to lose in order to connect to a new hope but he did not they could have had that fight end in a drawn.
@@shadowslayer9988 I agree, but hearing anakin's voice and broken vader's voice was veey good. Fight could be more tied tho, at least when obiwan destroies vader's suit
I think it was made very clear that Vader was fairly weakened by his emotions and was blinded by his hate for Obiwan. He also showed flashes of Anakin and the conflict between is past self made him weak. Vader is comfortably a stronger fighter but that's not always what matters.
So accurate comment! And I am really surprised that people thinking like this are minority vs. who liked it. Ofc. the scenes were enjoyable but there is no single way Vader could be bested, let alone being humiliated like this.
@@jaker9674 I got a problem with this "conflicted" argument. This is the same Vader that threw Obi Wan into fire and wanted to burn him alive.The same guy that already hunted many Jedi and who just cracks the necks of ordinary people. Also, no Jedi becomes one with the Force and geta non-sense power upgrade in 2 days. It takes much more than a man who disconnected from the Force for 10 years. İt was a complete Kenobi fan service, I am not gonna deny that it was very emotional and enjoyable - the execution of this scene is illogical and not realistic within SW universe.
Agree that Obi wan just brings to much emotion on Vader for him to overcome, don’t agree that he lost because of his suit limiting his movements, maybe that was the case in Legends but in the new Canon Darth Vader suit doesn’t seem to be much of a issue
Was anyone else hoping to see Obi-Wan use force speed again? I thought it was one of coolest force abilities and I can't help but to feel as though they missed an opportunity to show that off again in Kenobi.
Hearing Anakin’s and Vader’s voice cross paths gave me chills. Truly cinematic
Made this whole series worth it.
Honestly one of the best Star Wars moments in my opinion.
Definitely one of the Star wars moments
Kinda made a grown man a bit misty.
Truly amazing. I wish we could see more.
Palpatine was correct, Vader was weakened whenever he faces anything in his past, like obiwan. When Vader was facing reva, it was effortless. He has no attachment to her at all. But obiwan brings all the emotions of his childhood and Jedi years. Obiwan was his brother figure and no matter what, he is not yet stable enough to deal with it. Hence why The light side of Anakin came out for a split second when he said that he wasn’t his failure.
So cool to see that some other fans intepret this this moment the same way I do! I freaking loved that scene!
So I keep commenting this under respective videos 😅:
"The most powerful thing to come out of this show for me and one that actually adds a great deal to the characters we love (Anakin/ Vader and then Obi Wan), if you allow it to become your canon, is that dialogue between the two.
Some of the most meaningful moments in fiction are actually the ones which leave room for interpretation!
When Anakin/Vader tells Obi that he didn't kill Anakin, but he himself did it (after Obi apologized to him), it almost seems like there is the light side shining through, as Anakin wants to lift Obi Wan of that burden, of that feeling of guilt. He himself is now taking responsibility for the way things went. I mean, was he really ready to kill Obi Wan? He wanted, but then again he didn't want to. After all he decided to bury him, instead of actually killing him in a way where he can be certain. He then walked away.
On the orher hand, it could be that telling Obi Wan that he (Vader) killed Anakin, is the dark side, his massive ego really embracing what he has become and owning that path, taking away from Obiwan that he could possibly have had a part in shaping his future, telling him that he wasn't significant enough so he could have possibly done that, thereby trying to hurt him even more.
I personally lean towards the former, also because of hayden's voice when he said the part about Obi not having any part in it. Then again, when he said "I did!" it's realy vadery and kind of evil. I don't know, maybe its both. The character stays ambivalent after all and holds sort of two peole. So who knows.
Either way, seeing Anakin like this and hearing what he had to say, lifted the burden of guilt from Obi Wan and he could finally be free again.
Very very powerful scene for me!"
Oh and I like the comparison you made between the Rever and the Obi Wan fight :-)
Great perspective!
Same with Ahsoka and their duel. Anakin "pops" out for that brief moment. Vader wants to kill his past, Anakin won't let him.
This would make sense if Vader was emotional during their first encounter but he wasn’t. He was calm and collected. The first interaction would’ve been the struggle for Vader to deal with.
Like Kenobi says in Rebels: “If you define yourself by the power to take life, the desire to dominate, to possess… then you have nothing.” He knows Anakin still hates himself for losing Padme. Vader’s rage and emotional instability is how Kenobi was able to win. He just used it against him and stayed level-headed.
He used it against him in the flash back too. But that’s what I don’t like about Kenobi. Instead of instilling strength through encouragement, he just manipulated Anakin to get the higher ground. It’s obnoxious. And why, I’ll, Kenobi is a failure. He absolutely failed Anakin. Every. Freaking. Time. He just doesn’t get it. But Luke did. ❤️
@@bornwithoutboundariestarot he didn’t use anything against him, anakins self hate was all from himself.
@@bornwithoutboundariestarot although I think you have a point in some regards, if you watch The Clone Wars you’ll see that Anakin was always a loose cannon, and despite Obi-Wan’s best efforts, he was always jumping the gun. Obi-Wan tried to use experiences to train Anakin, but he was too thirsty for power to adhere to his master’s guidance. I don’t think you can blame Obi-Wan for that.
@@bornwithoutboundariestarot That wasnt manipulation that was a lesson to Anakin showing that his drive for power will inevitably get him nowhere, and his opponents will use it against him. And Anakin didnt listen🤷♂️
Nope, its just bullshit writing, in no way does it make sense that Obi won can beat a prime Vader. Fuck out of here
I was torn apart when Anakin spoke... and then Vaders voice said "remains". This is the best line in Star Wars ever. So emotional. Everything came together in that just one sentence. Goosebumps.
The red lighting on Vader's scarred face and his ragged, rattling breathing also lends a certain 'zombie-like' quality to his appearance. You really get the sense that Vader is the twisted, broken, and hollowed out corpse of what used to be Anakin Skywalker. 😢
Absolutely agree, this series was phenomenal
And Blended to trilogies nicely
"I am what remains." Probably the best Vader line.
The blending of Anakin and Vader’s voices was so eerie, and heartbreaking. It was like a split personality.
Chills every time.
Yeah I remember feeling actual chills running down my spine, also allot of sadness
The sinister smile that's on his face after saying obi wan didn't kill Anakin Vader did. Chilling.
Ikr? It was just WOW
I'm surprised how well it worked tbh.
What if Vader didn’t yell “Kenobi” for him to come back and finish the duel. Vader yelled at Kenobi for leaving him to suffer again.
Yea he does that with alot of people
@@heisenberggutenberg95 I could be wrong but Vader has lied to a lot of people but has never lied to Kenobi.
@@PULPperson that’s more heartbreaking
No I think he yelled Kenobi because he wanted to finish the duel and kill him. Vader made it clear to Kenobi that he wasn’t responsible for Anakin’s turn to Vader. In other words, he doesn’t want Obi Wan’s help. If he did, he would have left with Obi wan.
I felt that too. It sounded a bit like a scream of despair as well as anger. Fookin heartbreaking
This makes me a bit sad. I never thought about the physical pain he feels in the suit. He is the most iconic villain of all time, but also the most tragic.
Just so you know mate his suit was designed to be torturous
I’ve always wondered why Palpatine wanted someone as strong as him yet kept him weak by that horrible suit.
@@mrj5447 done at the “Emperor Palpatine Reconstruction Centre” with some Woodoo hide.
It's a hill i'm willing to die on, but anakin skywalker/darth vader is *the* best character ever written. Granted there is so much material about him that it's hard for him not to be extremely well fleshed out, but he is the most tragic example of what happens when our inner demons win.
@@semperfiyorkies6084 the suit was a punishment for vader, and basically once vader lost to kenobi sidious decided that vader was no longer worthy of taking his place as the dark lord of the sith, but sidious realized that even weakened vader could still fuck up his day so decided to make him weaker to make it easier to kill him since he no longer had any intention of letting vader take over. That's why sidious was constantly trying to replace him, he wanted a new apprentice and the first test for this new potential apprentice was to kill vader, but vader is too stubborn to die and keeps killing them so sidious is kinda stuck with him.
Broke my heart watching Obi wan realize that at this moment Anakin was gone. I loved how it ties the "from a certain point of view" when Ben told Luke that Vader killed Anakin
I also like how he called him "Darth" when he said goodbye, like how he did in A New Hope. I think it's Obi Wan's way of calling him a generic evil Sith. He knows he is called Vader but only calls him Darth.
It was cool - but this whole thing already happened on Mustafar 10 years prior.
@@TerryKashat yeah but people hated the prequels because it was missing emotional weight and conversion to Darth Vader was very rushed. The dialogue in Obi-Wan Kenobi series was reminiscent of Return of the Jedi between Vader and Luke. The prequels didn't have that depth for some reason.
@@rexmagi4606 Darth is a title for a Sith Lord. Obi-Wan is basically acknowledging that he is that Sith and no longer Anakin his old friend etc.
@@donramon9723 I hear you - prequels are still some of the best stuff ever made
There is so much more to star wars duels then just skill or strenght, especially when the characters participating have emotions surounding eachother.
Exactly I say this whenever people say kylo is trash because he lost to rey and struggled with finn kylo was stated to be conflicted and weakened after killing his father and its stated rey got a determination amp and became one with the force to defeat kylo
@Basil true its sad she is the strongest non god character in sw
Yeah but it does get a bit tiring after a while. In a good part of the Star Wars duel there’s always someone holding back or toying rather than fighting. It wouldn’t be too bad if it weren’t the majority of the duels we get to see in this universe.
The revenge of the sith book does a really good job showing what really goes in to Star Wars duels.
@@Vader255 Rey maybe,but he still shouldn't be struggling with Finn bro lol.
Ewan is the embodiment of Obi Wan. Dude was born to play the role. He was always my favorite of the Jedi only behind Qui Gon. Man saw the whole universe fall apart and still follows his mission. I hope we see another season
I'm such a Qui Gon fan I screamed at the end of the episode I knew it was coming but love him so much!
Obi Wan is the embodiment of the Jedi spirit, fearless, passionate, disciplined, and he's true to himself and the Jedi.
Been confirmed that there will be season 2
Technically he was born to play Wedge's nephew :)
@@nessierey6721 It has not been confirmed.
I feel like during the conversation after Kenobi broke Vader's mask, Anakin was almost trying to talk to Kenobi through Vader. When Vader said "I am not your failure" or "you didn't kill Anakin Skywalker", it's almost like Anakin was trying to apologize and saying that he blames himself for his downfall, not Kenobi. And then Vader takes the wheel again and says "...I did". Finally when Kenobi leaves, and Anakin/Vader start calling for him, it has a double meaning. Vader wanted to finish the duel with Kenobi and finally kill him, but Anakin was basically saying "please don't leave me" just like Kenobi had left him in ROTS.
He said "I am not your failure" as he doesn't consider himself to be a failure, as he still mostly believes he made the right choice. He also says he killed Anakin because he is saying that Anakin died once he transitioned into Vader and joined the sith. Whilst an interesting thought, I don't think its very likely that he was saying these things as anakin through vader.
@@croftsy2135 I agree with the top guy. Between it being anakins voice, the lack of sith eyes, and him being thematically covered in blue light when he’s saying I’m not your failure, you didn’t kill anakin skywalker, to the transition to the complete opposite from “I did” and on plus the emotional sadness in anakins voice versus the anger in Vader’s. It’s pretty clear imo that’s what they were going for.
@@butterflymage5623 @Croftsy I also agree with OP. I mean, at least that's the BETTER interpretation for my taste anyway, regardless of the actual intention of the writers: for Anakin just witnessed Kenobi deeply hurt, deeply guilty, apologizing for Anakin's downfall... We know there has to be a bit of good Anakin deep inside, and we know the actual result of Anakin's words: Kenobi overcame his guilt. I would rather believe the good side in Anakin did that deliberately, than Vader just stupidly did a favor to Kenobi, on top of losing the battle. Indeed, I can only believe Vader lost that battle if his good side was THAT prominent all along, if that was the effect of Kenobi's presence - then I can even find plausible why Vader would go for just burying Kenobi under rocks: way to avoid actually killing Kenobi FOR SURE, without having to admit to himself any emotional conflict. All that is in line with how Vader "works" when it comes to Luke.
There are those who interpret anakin and vader as two different entities and there are those who interpret anakin is vader transformed. I think the ladder is true. The split personality isn't common in star wars, it's only really prevelant in the story of anakin because he has always been so conflicted, up until his final moments with Luke in ep 6. It makes more sense that he has allowed/allowed himself to be vader due to the consequences of his own actions and suffering rather than the personality of vader takes over him leaving him sunken where he can say something like "don't leave me ".
I agree. The blue on his face and temporary lack of sith eyes shows that Obi-wans apology touched him, and by him saying that he is not his failure is just to make Kenobi feel a little better and to not be hard on himself. ironically, to do this, it pulls on his self-loathing and rises up the darkside again.
I think we're also seeing Obi-wan just slipping into the Force in way that he hadn't yet. It's like the transformation that Kanan goes through when fighting the Grand Inquisitor. Obi-wan had time to accept what was about to happen and truly embrace the Force.
OB1 got his mojo back. They did an OK effort in showing that imo. Coulda/shoulda been way way better/epic though. Just look at the Mandolorian. Evertything they do for that show makes it feel freakin epic - which is fantastic. Why not do that for legacy Star Wars too huh? No? gotta make it bland so people forget about it? If true, that FKN SUCKS BIG STINKN ASS.
I refuse to accept that
I really like the idea of Vader's suit being that inhibiting for him. The sheer delay on his mind-to-limb-movement means that every time we see Vader fighting he's *several* steps ahead of his opponents, that's so badass lol. It sells just how powerful Anakin is, I don't think any other Star Wars character would handle being in the Vader suit, at least not nearly as well as he does
Don’t you think that if Vader’s tech was truly so out of date initially - that he couldn’t have gone and put together/ sourced his own to upgrades later? I mean he has a history of being very good at building things from a young age…
@@bs_ms palps prolly forbid it
@@bs_ms In canon Vader's armor was up to date and he routinely modified it to his exact specifications. Once he returned from his mission of bleeding a kyber crystal, Palpatine told him he could change the armor if he wanted. So what we see is what Vader wanted.
@@thewarner2139 isn't this what Vader wanted because the pain strengthening his contact with the dark side of the force, rather than having it 'optimised'?
@@chigi5461 Vader needed the armor to be optimal in order to fight at his peak. His body was already in constant pain. Even when he connected the armor, it was a painful process of piercing his skin and nerves.
I think Anakin came out while saying “you didn’t kill Anakin” in a way to remove the burden off obi wan and in a way say it’s not his fault. But Vader finished the sentence with “I did”, showing the conflict within Anakin even while speaking a singular sentence.
Thats the way I understood that part to be. More of Anakin cutting him some slack in a way.
Definitely. Tiny bit of Anakin resurfaces for a moment, but hatred and rage of Vader shuts him down again. Plus, I don't know, but I have a feeling like he wanted to die there. That's why he was like "I'll destroy you", even though he knew it's literally not possible, he was barely standing and was still teasing Obi Wan, trying to get him to strike again.
@@michacieslak2346 exactly. I part of me feels like he wanted obi wan to kill him. Of course he wants to kill obi wan, but the way he yelled at the end made me feel like he didn’t want obi wan to leave him defeated again like in revenge of the sith, instead wanted him to put him out of his pain.
Obi Wan had just defeated him. I took it that he was speaking out of spite. "You beat me, but you can't pity me. I won't take your pity. _I_ did this, not you."
I viewed it as him saying he is not anyone's 'failure', that he is not a failure in any way. He believes he killed Anakin in order to become stronger and more powerful. The last thing he would do is cut Obi some slack.
My opinion is Obi-Wan tapped into the true nature of the light side. Loving but not attached, like Qui-Gon. This gave him the ability to use the force aggressively without falling to its power, similar to how Kanan was able to save the Ghost crew in Rebels
@Bingo I’d disagree there. Do you know the phrase “if you really love someone let them go?” I think this phrase means that you can love something without desire to gain personally from it. That’s where I get the idea that that is the true definition of the “light side.”
@Bingo there is such a thing lmao. it died with qui gon. you arent wrong that the jedi ideology is pathetic but the only one who could have done anything about the events that happened in episodes 1-3 was qui gon himself
I agree that it showed that love is more powerful than whatever Vader was feeling. There’s just no such thing as the light side though. There’s only the force
@Bingo perhaps that's why Qui-Gon wasn't liked so much by the jedi council, but it is possible
Wow us Starwars Fans are so passionate!!!!
It’s also worth mentioning Obi-Wan found a second wind after he escaped from the rubble. Like when Qui-Gon died, Obi-Wan was emotionally in tune with the force and was fighting with power than he ever had before.
While I agree he got a second wind and was fighting with much more skill after the rocks, is it realistic from all we know about Kenobi that he could raise that many boulders and fling them at Vader?
I am not familiar with all the novels, etc., just the movies.
@@iwannaseenow1 yes. He has demonstrated to he with the likes of Maul and even Anakin at times. Both of which are extremely powerful in the force
@@evansanchez8722 Except he didn’t do anything very impressive with the force to defeat Maul or Anakin. That was pure lightsaber skill and tactical sense. Maul made a mistake by underestimating Obi-Wan which Obi-Wan took advantage of, and Anakin made the exact same mistake by trying to use the same move on Obi-Wan that Obi-Wan used to defeat Maul. Neither of these times did Obi-Wan demonstrate an uncharacteristic amount of force skill, he merely used his lightsaber skill and training to take advantage of his enemies weakness. Obi-Wan is a very impressive duelist, but the fact that he uses a defensive lightsaber style tells you that his strength lies in his use of a lightsaber, not his force abilities.
I could easily see Yoda, or possibly even Mace Windu demostrating such a crazy amount of force potential in the heat of a duel, but both their midichlorian counts were far higher than Obi-Wan’s. Obi-Wan is a strong duelist, not a strong force user. If he had such a strong potential to tap into, he could have used it to defeat Dooku. He could have even used it when he dueled Grievous. But he didn’t. He used his defensive lightsaber style to defeat all of his enemies, because that is what he was best at.
@@aarongolden5608 the prequels created this misconception that obiwan is not a skilled force user, whereas in the og trilogy he is one of few that becomes a force ghost so i dont really buy it
When He said, "Anakin is gone, I am what remains", You could feel the sadness in his voice.
I got "It is too late for me, son" vibes
One of the coolest parts of episode 6 was just after Kenobi but Vaders mask, the sound Vader makes when he tries to take that first breath sounds so painful. I had headphones on and it almost gave my chills
I love the moment when they hold hands during a fight.
In this scene, I had the impression that every such detail, gesture, movement, words are not accidental, and everything has meaning and is inspired by emotions - loss, anger, hatred, longing, sadness, revenge, love.
And how Ewan and Hayden played it is amazing. The crying Obi Wan played by Ewan is so real. And especially Hayden deserves a mention after all these years, thank you for coming back because, oh Hayden, Anakin's voice and his eyesight broke my heart for the second time after many years when I was a child and I hid under my grandmother's armchair crying because I didn't want to watch Anakin falls and transforms into Vader ...
For so many years, I had a hard time reconciling the voice, speech patterns, demeanor of Anakin Skywalker with Darth Vader. They just seemed like two different people.
But Hayden navigated and bridged that perfectly. When he started speaking with the damaged helmet, it all made sense
@@Killzoneguy117 Yes! I agree. It has always been difficult for me to imagine Anakin hiding in this man-machine.
Anakin is the one who loved too much, the one who cared, and the one who lost everything.
On the other hand, Vader is a ruthless, hateful machine and it seems that there are no dilemmas.
Completely different persons.
I fully agree.
When looking at Vader, you always have to remind yourself from time to time that this Anakin is inside. With what Hayden did, you don't have to remember anymore because you know he's there. And you feel it. And it hurts you more.
@@Killzoneguy117 essentially Anakin and Vader are two different people.
With Hayden's amazing acting plus his voice/Vader's voice makes this whole scene so emotional, I love it
Not gonna lie, I teared up when Obi-Wan saw what happened to Anakin and apologized to him.
What got me even more, was when Anakin slipped through for just a bit, and told Obi-Wan that he doesen't really blame him for everything that had happend. He blamed himself.
Same man. I wish their dialogue lasted longer.
Same here
That's my biggest criticism of the show. Ewan McGregor is a great actor and his is supposed to be his show. The show should have focused more on Obi-Wan. I still loved the show but did not care much for the distractions that were Reva and others.
@@davidmun1601 hopefully s2 is focused on obi wan and Luke and obi wans master
It makes sense to me that, because Vader is so physically limited, that he would focus his training on the force instead.
I also found it interesting that, compared to Ep3, Obi-Wan was more the aggressor here instead of Anakin who was almost 100% the aggresor in ep3
Obi wan was using anakins style to defeat Vader thats why
Anakin and Vader fight very differently
@@bobaketthepartyfett3405 Glad you caught that too. After the pit, Kenobi switched too Anakin’s style and definitely caught Vader off guard.
@@bobaketthepartyfett3405 Sooooo glad someone caught this as well!
That made me sad cause he’s truly lost his abilities as a light saber duelist he’s still alright but he just ain’t him no more
@@TheRealLastJedi721 what doesn’t make sense is Vader actually learned more lightsaber forms and got better
My thoughts on it is that for years kenobi fought like how the jedi of that Era were taught, use no emotion. But in that moment much like qui gon Obi-Wan found that ignoring emotion isn't the way of the light. This allowed him to channel the will he had to fight for the children and the love he had for them. This meant for the first time kenobi fought with emotion, not with anger but with purpose. Just my take, then Qui gon saying he wasn't ready to see could be not just him using the force but him not seeing the true state of the light side like qui gon did.
Motivation is fuell for the engine, keeps us going. That was for me the scene when obi wan pushed away the rocks.✌🏻👍🏻
yoda pretty much got a re write near the end of clone war's were they have em fight his inner dark side
Exactly how they should’ve made the sequels. The Jedi were wrong, the sith are evil -
emotions like love etc … this is the way.
@@jalyndixon9352 the sith are a Alternative to how one use's the force - space magic -
@@creatorsfreedom6734 Yoda's dark side potential is mentioned by Dooku too in an inner monologue iirc , from around episode 2, so it's more an adaptation than a re write , Yoda does have a dark side, but Yoda's thing is to always choose the light anyway.
I legitimately believe Vader and Obi never actually wanted the other dead. They had so many opportunities - they both left each other burnt and didn’t go for the kill for example, which stands out to me. But also when Vader buries Obi and when Obi slashes Vader’s helmet. If they truly wanted the other dead, it would have happened way sooner than episode 4.
It speaks volumes as to how deeply enmeshed in one another Anakin/Vader and Obi-Wan are. It's like they're locked in this violent, painful, and brutally loving embrace. Anakin NEEDS Obi-Wan, simply cannot let his former master and brother go, even as he torments, rages against, and hunts him. Obi-Wan likewise still carries too much love for Anakin's memory to ever kill Darth Vader by his own hand. They're at an ultimate impasse, one which could only be broken by Obi-Wan cognitively splitting Anakin and Darth Vader into two separate entities...and walking away.
obi wan thought anakin was dead because he thought hed killed him on mustafar lol, thats nonsense
@@mouse7965 what? He knew he survived, he said I’m sorry I failed you Anakin to Vader earlier on in the show. Nonsense😂😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@mouse7965 lol
@@Schlex reva literally tells obi wan that vader is alive and obi wan is shocked, he thought anakin was dead
Honestly, I wish this battle would have ended in a flat-out draw with neither the clear winner. Obi and Vader need a draw where they both didn’t win or lose. Vader is ridiculously powerful and has been training (and hating) this whole time. Obi completely forgot his powers. He shouldn’t be able to suddenly out-do the chosen one who has been training and hating this entire time (even if Palp has gimped him). I feel like Obi got the “Rey” treatment
I feel the exact same way
The battle ending any other way than obi-wan beating him would break canon.
In a new hope when vader says the last time he left him 'I was but the learner, now i am the master'
You are 100% correct. Sadly most Obi Wan Fanboys doesn't see it that way.
@@steffan5304 not really. Obi Wan couldve tricked him or something and disappear or leave.
Obiwan got the Disney treatment. Which means disregard 80% of what you know and just shut up and love it cause he said hello there.
I felt that Vader was bragging about having killed Anakin, but was also sympathetic to Obi-Wan, and was reassuring his former master in a way. He was telling Obi-Wan not to blame himself for Anakin's death. Sure, Vader smiles an evil smile behind the cracked mask, but I think a small part of Anakin was sympathetic to Obi-Wan's tears, and was helping his former master to move on from what happened on Mustafar 10 years earlier. It was a very emotional scene with so many layers. I loved it and I've watched it again and again.
I always thought of it as a force-induced split personality. Anakin lives on but is buried by Vader. The moments when he feel sadness and sorrow, that is when Anakin comes out. However, his hatred is what keeps him alive and so Vader has dominant control. Anakin retreats into Vader as a means of reluctant self-preservation.
100% agree. His apology actually reached Anakin at some level.
I have a bit of a theory on the end of the fight. Vader knew that, in his injured state, he wouldn't be able to beat Obi-Wan. He wanted Obi-Wan to kill him, to end his suffering. Vader's greatest suffering is having to live in a world where Obi-Wan defeats him but chooses to let him to continue being what he has become. He would rather live on with no memories of the past, or not live at all.
The reva & Darth Vader fights was beautiful displaying his strength & ability with the force ! In the Kenobi vs Vader fight showed whos the master still ' obi wan ! '' blows my mind how on point you are in each video ! Truly the best star warz analysis UA-camr out there ! Great videos 💯👌
You support woke?
It’s trash. Kenobi should NEVER have won at this point
I really think Disney have a perfect opportunity for a Vader limited series here, set somewhere between Kenobi and Rogue One, really focusing intently on all the struggles he’s had becoming this hybrid of man and machine, the pain he still feels for what he’s lost, and the fear he has that he is not good enough and that Palpatine will replace him. Gods know there is enough material in the books and comics to draw from. The show can lean in to the increasing atrocity of Vader pitched against the residual goodness of Skywalker that never quite seems to disappear completely- and yes, please ask Hayden Christensen to reprise. He deserves it. Come on D+ we want moreeeee 😎
I’d also love to see a young Leia show, showing a slightly older Leia getting involved in the Rebellion.
the whole saga is about him but i see what you mean and maybe it could be interesting
Bro just read the comics
@@asaptrizzy967 or Disney could just make the comics into another series as with The Book of boba Fett
I want vaders and palpatines relationship explored, I want to see palpatine training him, building him up, being nice to him, only to torture him minutes later, so we really, truly sympathise with vader, instead of viewing him as a maniac, he is just a slave to the dark side
I think having a Vader series would have a lot of problems. Besides the hard core fans, seeing a series about a guy in a full body suit isn't really that appealing.
Many good points have been stated here, but I haven't seen this mentioned - I loved the "technical" details of how Obi-Wan won against Vader.
Kenobi starts out with Soresu (form 3, defense, what he used to win the first time), but as the fight goes on, starts to mix aggressive Ataru, Djem So attacks (Anakin's traditional style) and even Makashi (Dooku's fencing style and the one counter to Anakin's/Vader's). I think Vader was caught off guard by seeing this newfound aggression from someone who was always pretty much 100% defense; he never trained for this, of all circumstances.
Midway in the fight you also see a shot that highlights the difference between an amateur like Reva and a pro like Kenobi. Vader does the "force block lightsaber strike" thing and instead of fighting against force power with brute strength, Kenobi uses the momentum of the push to spin and pin down Vader's blade before countering with an effective force push of his own. That's pretty much the real-life counter to someone "pushing you really hard" in martial arts too, just use their momentum against them and stop resisting, and usually they'll fall on their face or run into a wall (or you can throw them, but that's more complicated). Reva just tried to push back harder, and that was never going to work. But, even as someone with technically less "raw force potential", Kenobi handily won this, combining Soresu that disabled whatever assault Vader threw at him, with an unrelenting Ataru/Djem So assault that he never had to face from his old master, as well as the Jedi he might have killed.
I also think a lot of this battle was psychological. Vader was flip-flopping, as you said, but Kenobi became "fully tapped" into the light side, when he focused on his primary objective of protecting Luke and Leia, and pushed back all the rocks - like he had never before. I think that, just as dark side users draw the most strength from hatred, light side users draw it from love, and here for the first time, Obi Wan truly gained sight of the people who he loved and was trying to protect. This was also a flaw of the old Jedi order, which almost encouraged suppression of emotions like love (indirectly, from suppressing attachment), and therefore crippled itself before the Sith even came into the picture. Obi Wan finally overcame this limitation, and I think it's beautifully symbolized in and interwoven with his more aggressive fighting style, because for the first time now he's fighting _for_ something and he NEEDS to win, instead of just passively defending the status quo that he was taught his entire life was the ultimate good (the Jedi code).
Good points. I too noticed and at least in my opinion, attribute his upper hand to the form switch. The only problem I have with it… we were handicapped to 6 episodes and weren’t really able to see any visible meditation or refresher training whatsoever to regain that confidence and ability. A Dagobah visit or even Qui-Gon reaching out prior to, could’ve provided more of an answer than just “oh looks like he’s back and using styles he’s never used before!” in a very limited amount of time
Amazing read!
beautiful comment!
I am ‘like’ 66
I feel like I'm reading world-class playoffs sports commentary but for lightsaber duels. Getting hyped for Kenobi's next match-up!
Also I LOL'd so damn hard at "...highlights the difference between an amateur like Reva and a pro like Kenobi." 🤣🤣🤣💀💀💀 YES!!! Call me toxic but FUCK that noob Reva man! 🤣 We were ALL rooting for Vader in that fight, no matter who his opponent would have been unless it was Kenobi.
i think vader was just overwhelmed by obi-wan's aggressive tactics compared to his usual defensive ones. he never expected it, nor did obi-wan really.
vader took obi wan's high ground, you know what happened to maul when he took it from him..
That’s exactly how I took it, it caught him completely off guard
Awesome analysis for sure, but I disagree with a few things. First off, generally when Vader fights most of anyone else, he is more in tune with the dark side and thus much more powerful. I feel the reason he lost here is because as you said he is so conflicted, not because he’s close to Obi Wans power level. I thought that the 80% of Palpatine thing was now legends and that the new Cannon Vader is stronger in raw force power. It is even stated a couple times that he is more powerful, such as in Fallen Order. I always viewed it as Palpatine just had way more knowledge of the force and thus could apply his power better. That and Palpatine was 100% in tune with the dark side as compared to his apprentice would would become conflicted when confronted with his past. The new way cannon uses midiclorions isn’t the total amount present in the body, but the number per cell. It makes more sense im my mind as if it was number per body then Yoda would be much weaker. Therefore in new cannon I don’t believe Vader lost any. And lastly Vader is stated in several sources to be the best dueler in Star Wars, even above Palpatine and Dooku. If Vader wasn’t so conflicted while fighting and was able to keep a level head, I believe he would have won. That’s just my take anyways, no disrespect or anything. Awesome video tho!
You are correct about the 80% thing and the statements surrounding Vaders force power. That’s the dynamic between Vader and Palpatine, Vader has more raw power while Palpatine has more knowledge and can apply his powers better. Also that Vader is actually Palpatines apprentice instead of an outcast attack dog in legends
Yes. In canon Vader is no longer physically handicapped and it certainly doesn't affect his force potential. Dude's just too psychologically damaged to want to do anything with it.
Where could I find this stuff
i wanted to say this as well lol
Obi wan is one of the greatest duelists of all time too. He 100% mastered seresu and it's defensive capabilities, the longer a fight went on with an aggressive style (ala anakins form 5's) the more chance obi wan had of winning. What really spun Vader's mind in this recent duel, is the fact obi wan switched to Ataru (qui gons style and obi wans original form) vadar has spent years assessing a way to beat seresu only for old Ben to switch it up and have an ace in his sleeve mid battle. It's literally a turning point in the battle, many viewers picked up on him starting to do some cool new things like the behind the back hand switch etc, not actually realising they were witnessing him change forms. It was there for the true geeks.
The most unrealistic part I think is that Obi-Wan has not been practicing for 10 years (presumably). It's hard to believe that he has so much stamina, agility, and fighting ability without at least some prep time to get back in shape. Any athlete knows that if they don't practice for 10 years... welll, shit
Yes but he also had a adrenaline that happens when you know you ethier win or you die. Where vader doesn't care about that.
Right ✅️ try not going to the gym for 10 weeks 😑
You are all stupid. What does Yoda say in Ep. 5? A jedi's strength flows from the force. It has nothing to do with muscles or stamina. How do you think he does all those backflflips and shit against dooku and palps when he has a walking stick?
That’s what I thought as well but then I remembered how Yoda said that muscle matters not but how connected you are in the force. Meaning Obi-Wan being connected in the force so strongly aligned with his body as well
@@americanrebelking8337 adrenaline means nothing for stamina when out of shape. Short term maybe for 1-2 minutes then u would be out of breath. In fact, in mma, if benefits you to be calm. When you are afraid, you gas quick.
This was the Obi-Wan that Anakin talked about to Padmé in Episode 2: "As wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu." It was always there.
Obi-Wan was always more humble and reserved. Even when fighting an enemy he rarley went all in. Only when Maul killed Qui-Gon (Obi-Wan shattered his double blad in just a few seconds) and when engaging Vader he went for the kill stroke once it was beyond clear that Anakin was not there anymore.
Hayden's performance was THE GOAT in star wars lore imo, it followed on from his prequel performance succinctly and realistically portrayed his character's fall to the dark side in its darkest depiction yet. The eye colour in the final fight sequence provided the perfect juxtaposition to his eventual redemption. With respect to the timeline this series was emotionally spectacular and a great conclusion to vader and kenobi's cannon appearance prior to episode IV, theory you are the best SW UA-cam artist of all time
" I Hate Sand "
Bloody shit mate, if you consider Hayden's performance as a piece of good acting you haven't watched enough movies.
@@jonataspereira1691 His dialogue was pretty bad and Lucas' direction on his acting wasn't great, but he had moments where he showed his acting can be good, which proves his "bad" performance isn't because of himself, but because of outside factors.
I agree bro. I have always loved Hayden as Anakin ever since I was 7 when I saw AOTC. I think most people mistaken his acting for his performance. His acting was directed by George. But his performance is himself. He gave his all to play Anakin. And he still is. He loves playing Ani and it means so much to him. Just as much if not more than Ewan playing Obi-Wan. What gets on my nerves is all these people acting like they loved him in the prequels when 90% of people back then didn’t like them.
Obi-wan told yoda that he would not kill Anakin under any circumstance he stuck to that… on a side note damn ewan’s light Sabre work was truly awesome very well done! Behind the back, both hands, over hand, under hand, he hit Vader with everything! That’s being total committed to the part hats off to great acting!! I hope they carry on the obi-wan story line just because the cast I think they have so much to add to the full story
The glow of the lightsabers signifying anakins struggle within himself was simply amazing, such an emotional finale
When Obi-wan says he’s sorry,
It genuinely looks like “Anakin” is doing everything in his power to hold onto his rage and anger. This whole scene is fucking tragic.
Vader had more force potential, and was in his prime. Either than Disney being hot garbage, he could've only lost to Obi-Wan by being drawn back to the light through emotion thus losing his power.
This comment right here 💔
Dude I almost teared up. Hayden’s emotes through a cracked helmet and mcgregor tears almost made it happen
@@nashwalker7 bro I was a mess
More flashbacks were needed and a whole dedicated episode to Anakin and Obi Wan would have been an absolute treat.. I still enjoyed it. I hope to see a vader series.. To dive deeper into the conflict between anakin and vader, his search for padme through the force, fighting with palpetine etc.
We have an entire other series with those two and three moves, pretty sure we have enough.
That would be nice but considering how short the episodes are, that would a lot of space
I would love a series on him, I want to see rogue one Vader. He did not look powerful at all. I get it that you have to follow the story and we know how it ends, but it didn’t feel like blow alderaan up while leia watches evil. I want to see more of that
@@King330h that was more Tarkin not Vader who made Leia watch. Vader was on Tarkins leash to an extent.
@@mocha9072 well that's just your opinion man.
I think we see it in the flashback he never learned everything there was to learn to become a Master Jedi but Obi-wan did. Obi-wan was granted the rank of Master because he proved that he could. Being strong in the force is one thing but learning to Master your feelings is even more important. Even Vader said in a New Hope that he was but a learner the last time they met.
Yeah, this disney trash didn't exist, so it made sense
You could even argue that Vader learned from the mistakes in this duel hence the caution when fighting obi-wan in episode 4. But Obi-wan was again a step ahead.
Kenobi knew win or lose, he won. Becoming a force ghost and achieving immortality is a spit in thr face to the guy who literally fell to the dark side seeking the answers to immortality in the first place lol.
@@drd444 he didn’t know how to become a force ghost at this point tho
@@krispybacon9927 we ain't talking about this fight. We're talking about the A New Hope fight.
I think its a perfect fit for why they fight so fridgetly in ep 4 even if it was in the 70s and ghey literally couldn’t touch sabers because they would break
The slight smirk when Vader says he killed Anakin was horrific. Hayden did an amazing job.
Sidebar: I think this season would have been more accepted if Disney just dropped the whole season at the same time.
Yes. Later half was good.
Great idea 🙌🏿
I've been thinking about this a little.
This series should have been 3 episodes rather than 6. Keep most of the intro and episodes 5 & 6. Cut out the filler and the ridiculous chase scenes (like the 1st episode, they only had to show up to Leia getting surrounded, we can figure it out from there geniuses 😂) Also the 2nd capture was unnecessary and the Fortress Inquisitorius section could be cut (or just completely reworked)
I don't want to go into specifics as it'd be too long a comment. I do feel that an overall running time of 3 to 3.5 hrs condensed into 3 episodes would've worked better.
The only reason why it worked on Mando S2 is because damn near every episode in that show made the wait worth it.
No just people are too impatient and cant wait for things to play out. Everybody criticizes the littlest of things and just tries to make morale low. Just like people complaining about the 1st Kenobi and Vader fight in Episode 3 or people complaining saying the GI is dead and now rebels isn't canon when in reality the GI is still alive as shown in the end of Episode 5. Also people still wanting to complain about a chase scene with a little girl. I mean yeah the chase looks cheesy but it isn't going to pull me out of the show. People just need to let things play out then make your judgements. One thing is for sure...you cannot please everybody.
As someone who is still kind of new to star wars but inadvertently listening to these videos in the background when my husband watches them, it wasn't till I watched kenobi when I really understood darth vader and finally could see past some of hadens performance as anakin in 1 2 and 3. Seeing this side of him has really helped me to connect the dots in between 3 and 4 and this fight with obi wan was enough for me to want a vader series and really see the conflict and what happens in that 10 year gap and that is something I'd never thought I'd say for someone who never even wanted to know what star wars was about...
You should watch clone wars
Anakin was done by Jake Lloyd in 1
His performance served a purpose that you now understand. Most things you don't get about prequels come with age and with the understanding of SW universe.
There are so many comics here on UA-cam and Spotify that go over the early years of his time as Darth Vader, give em a look if you haven't already
@@mosesgutierrez8744 I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't watched it by the end of this year
Easily the best scene in disneys Star Wars reign, anakin and vaders voices combining, and giving us the first real feeling that they are the same person. Always felt as though they were separate people. And the pure emotion kenobi shows! I personally fricking loved obi-wan series.
Kenobi was calm and clear headed when fighting Vader, he knew what he had to do. Vader was overconfident after overpowering Kenobi from the first encounter, the same exact thing happened in Revenge of the Sith. Vader was also conflicted and wasn't as clear headed as Kenobi was. Anger clouds your mind, it makes you blind and you end up making mistakes. Towards the end of the fight, you see how clumsy Vader is fighting, he's struggling, his anger is not focused, he's trying for a quick victory. You can see how calm Kenobi is fighting Vader, whereas you see Vader struggling, with clumsy strikes, wielding his lightsaber with two hands after the first 40 seconds of the fight after fighting with one hand at the start. At that time, Vader knew Obi-Wan had his strength back.
Anakin was the chosen one but Obi-Wan ranks high in my Jedi ranking.
One thing i like to think is obi wan switching to a more offensive lightsaber style upon getting out of the rubble also took vader by surprise. Since vader is very used to seeing obi wan use his defensive style.
Not only was he trying for a quick victory, the sudden fighting style change made obi wan even less predictable.
Exactly. Kenobi was focused and had a real reason to fight, and call upon the force.
Anakin was probably near his angriest, yet the only reason he had to win was to get back at someone, who he knew in his deepest subconscious, wasn’t even the real problem.
Kid that’s because Disney wrote and choreographed it that way. That’s IT. “Disney canon” doesn’t matter. Not one bit. In no universe would Kenobi EVER beat Vader by that point. That’s Vader in his prime. In the actual Lucas era timeline, Kenobi would never best him like that. Never. That was just stupid. If you know anything at all about the actual timeline, if you’ve read anything at all, then you know that. Maybe they can do whatever they want in this horrible Disney timeline, but in the real timeline, the Lucas timeline, the “legends” timeline, Vader would slaughter Kenobi by that point. Period.
@@dazdavis7896 Legends was never George’s timeline. It was “you have creative license that I can overwrite at anytime”
Anything outside TCW and the original 6 is gonna be made by someone else, hardly different from Disney doing it, so stop gatekeeping. George himself said Anakin was a 9 and Obi Wan was an 8.
When Anakins voice came through his mask, that was insane. That was fantastically done. Hearing his struggle breathing was an awesome touch too.
Rebels did it better imo
I agree! Its a shame for every positive comment there has to be a miserable negative one. Balance in the force I guesx
@@paulmccormacksvideogamesan2912 Wouldn't be so negative when it takes every ounce of this channel to not just accept that Disney star wars has been poorly written and written by people who just don't care.
Episode 6 was the most key jangling, member berry episode that it was just plainly insulting
@@ThunderTurkey100 well for Gods sake stop watching, if after 2 episodes it makes you that unhappy just stop
I love how Obi-wan's deciding blow was with the hilt. The move he learned from Maul: the Sith Lord that killed Kenobi's master and decided the faith of Anakin. It's like poetry...
It rhymes
Indeed- it’s so like him too, since he was always looking for non lethal solutions as “the negotiator” yet at the same time always picked up on weaknesses since he was almost never as strong as his opponent.
Yes I noticed that! Real cool!!! Just loved it.
also he defends against Maul AND Vader with a move, where he puts his arms over his head and deflects on his back. On maul it works, on Vader it fails :) and then taking moves from his enemy (mauls hilt-strike) to defeat vader
To be fair, he couldve killed vader had he only used his lightsaber the other way
I think seeing Obiwan’s strength return awakened the Anakin-part of Vader that shows up from time to time. My theory is that Anakin let Obiwan win, and for a brief moment he held Vader back in hopes the Obiwan would kill him and end his suffering.
Maybe maybe not
no bro
I agree
Disney is stupid for making obi wan beat darth vader again.
Agreed. It was absolutely unnecessary to have obi wan win
I was kind of hoping Obi Wan would make some kind of reference to Padme during his fight with Vader. Something like, "Padme would be ashamed of what you've become." Or something to that effect.
@Bingo that doesnt mean they cant mention her…
That would only make him more angry and stronger.
Another HUGE mistake on the script. The dialogue was little to nonexistant as far as the relevance to where the two characters should be right now, and the fight itself did nothing to move us forward. Good fight but total waste
@I’m on UA-cam When Obi wan struck Vader in his helmet exposing his face, almost fatally, he was weakened and his defenses were down. That would have been a good time for Obi-wan to point out how the reason why he wasn't trying to kill him and that he didn't try to before in ROTS is because he really does love him and believe that there is good in him, and also for him to bring uo the fact that the Emperor had deceived him and caused him to destroy everything that he said he was fighting for including Padme. This would bave forced Anakin to think about the truth of the situation and realize that the Emperor didn't really care about him or Padme and that he lied about how powerful he was and wanting to teach Anakin to be more powerful which he didn't. Then we could've went on from there, but instead they said basically nothing and they spared each other for no reason other than both of them canonically HAVE TO survive for us to get to Episode 4. You can be a fan and simultaneously admit that some decisions made were stupid, pointless, and should've been better.
@@phieble move us forward to what?...the next 9 years is quite boring except for Maul.
I'd love to see more of Vader in future shows. It's been said many times already but a Vader show taking place very soon after ROTS would show us his early life in his new identity. Seeing Vader deal with losing everything and his eventual conclusion that his old self, Anakin Skywalker, is dead and he should fully embrace his new reality would be so damn awesome. I doubt Disney will make such a "depressing" show based on their supposed rejection of the first Kenobi Movie script.
What was the first kenobi script about i keep hearing about it but can’t find links to anything about it lol
There’s an official comic that covers that exact time period. Not sure if they’d redo it in live action
yes, it would be cool to shoot the series as a kind of drama, for example, like the Joker, i.e. not action, but more emotional experiences, Vader's doubts and conversations with himself
I also wouldn't mind something set between the Originals, although I'm not sure what exactly they could do there/what hasn't been covered
I would love to see a show about the new canon Vader comics. Those are pretty amazing.
The most powerful thing to come out of this show for me and one that actually adds a great deal to the characters we love (Anakin/ Vader and then Obi Wan), if you allow it to become your canon, is that dialogue between the two.
Some of the most meaningful moments in fiction are actually the ones which leave room for interpretation!
When Anakin/Vader tells Obi that he didn't kill Anakin, but he himself did it (after Obi apologized to him), it almost seems like there is the light side shining through, as Anakin wants to lift Obi Wan of that burden, of that feeling of guilt. He himself is now taking responsibility for the way things went. I mean, was he really ready to kill Obi Wan? He wanted, but then again he didn't want to. After all he decided to bury him, instead of actually killing him in a way where he can be certain. He then walked away.
On the orher hand, it could be that telling Obi Wan that he (Vader) killed Anakin, is the dark side, his massive ego really embracing what he has become and owning that path, taking away from Obiwan that he could possibly have had a part in shaping his future, telling him that he wasn't significant enough so he could have possibly done that, thereby trying to hurt him even more.
I personally lean towards the former, also because of hayden's voice when he said the part about Obi not having any part in it. Then again, when he said "I did!" it's realy vadery and kind of evil. I don't know, maybe its both. The character stays ambivalent after all and holds sort of two peole. So who knows.
Either way, seeing Anakin like this and hearing what he had to say, lifted the burden of guilt from Obi Wan and he could finally be free again.
Very very powerful scene for me!
Dude was literally smiling when he said “I did!” So yeah the former is most likely true.
I thought of Vader burying obi wan as Vader attempting to “bury his past”. Wonder if any other people thought this too cause I think it makes that scene even more interesting
@@olivermichalak7556 Also very interesting indeed! So there us just lots of symbolism in all of this. Also with the red and blue light alternating with shining into Vader's/ Anakin's face
The cool thing about Obi-Wan is that he makes up for his relative lack in force abilities with intellect, strategy, and dedication.
@@tommycocacocke and that was the only thing I didn't like about the episode other than that I loved it.
Where do you see a lack of force abilities ? That's just vader fanboys being salty that have this narrative
@@simonl5074 obi wan is weaker than Yoda and Qui Gon in raw force abilities. You can see here that he struggles to hold up the same rocks that Vader can dispatch with ease.
What makes Obi-Wan a more powerful warrior and fighter than Vader is his ability to use his surroundings and the weaknesses of his enemies to his advantage.
This is how he was able to defeat Darth Maul despite being vastly disadvantaged. He struggles against Dooku when he fights him in isolated settings in episodes 2 and 3. But for most fights, Obi-Wan is able to use his surroundings to his advantage.
I'm not being salty and I'm not being a Vader fanboy. If anything, I think this makes Obi-Wan pretty badass and cool. Vader is raw power with no discipline. Ob-Wan has less power but much more discipline and this is why hes the better warrior.
@@tomstepp3954 Qui Gon is intermediate between Obi-wan and Fisto in force abilities. He is fairly powerful but not of the level of the elite.
The force was with him when he realigned with his purpose which were the kids. Also the planet was a conduit of the force and he was able to tap into that. That is why he lured Vader to that planet. Obi-Wan has been around and he knows his way around the Galaxy. I'm sure the force brought him there.
“Have you come to destroy me”
Was anyone else thinking this line could have been an opening for Ben to try to bring him back to the light.. and maybe he wanted to be brought back?
Facts, the jedi always strike first too lmao.
I actually agree with most of what is said… although something that I think should be mentioned is how Vader uses the force to increase his mobility in the suit. When I was watching the last Kenobi episode, all I could think about was how fast Vader was moving given his lack of mobility. As he was being overpowered, you can see his switch from his personally developed single-handed form and he starts using faster techniques more reminiscent of his form V training. I imagine he could only achieve these fast, precise movements utilizing the force to propel them.
The ending felt very fitting, the show had some crazy and odd moments, but the ending really put it all together, giving us all what we wanted!
yes but i wish the entire show was like the last two episodes
Definitely not all of us
Absolutely, the shows had it's flaws for sure, but in the end i'm satisfied.
@Bingo cry
@@bigstarwarsfan5714 you cry first
There are a lot of Star Wars channels on UA-cam, but I always come to you for your content more than others. You are a true fan and don’t just reiterate what other people have said.
I actually feel that it was the opposite, I felt that Vader's anger toward Obi-Wan is what lead to his defeat. While hatred and anger are usually a good thing for a Sith during a fight, I felt that Vader let it blind him. (Side note: correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a Sith teaching about using anger but not letting it blind you? Anyway) Rewatching A New Hope, when Vader confronts Obi-Wan, he seems much more in control of his anger and levelheaded, unlike in the show where he lets out a guttural yell and charges in at the very beginning of the fight. In regard to Obi-Wan I felt that his guilt was holding him back, and that was the weakness Vader was referring to. When he was buried in the rubble and hearing the voices of the past, that was his guilt holding him back, but when he finally let go of it and focused on the future, i.e. the flashes of Luke and Leah, he was finally able to break free.
Vader usually relies on his monstruous strenght and power to overcome his opponent. But when he finds someone that can either hold off his attacks(like Obi Wan did), be even more aggresive than him(like Luke did) or simply overpower him(like Palpatine could) he is extremely vulnerable.
Look at Vader’s saber handling, too. Beginning of the fight, he goes in with one hand on his weapon, after Obi Wan starts pushing him a bit, Vader puts both hands on, he figured out quick that Obi Wan got his groove back, and wasn’t going to run over him like he did earlier in the series.
When Vader loses, but he had the high ground:
*“Wait that’s illegal”*
That’s disney for you
loses*
@@DarthVader1977 mesa destroy u darth vader
Tbf Maul had the high ground too
@@therobloxpro885 😂 jar jar funny as always but i see you are a sith lord
I've been watching your channel since like 2016 and it still blows my mind when I see your face in these videos. you helped me form the star wars nerd part of my childhood
This show has a lot of questionable moments , but Vader's lines , voice acting and general characters is SO on point
pretty much sums up star wars since the OT really
@@nutrientocean nahhh the PT was great too
@@nutrientocean OT wasn't, and never will be, perfect. It's got heart for sure.
I agree he has great moments but leaving Reva alive twice? Now disney are just trying to destroy the evil of a character. She survives as a kid then he doesnt kill her because she placed a tracker and then fails to kill her again so fails 3 times... The empire is a joke in disney star wars i didnt know that Nazi's cared about equality and hiring of women because for some reason the empire did...
Vader’s strategy and actions were illogical outside of the good fight scenes
The way that Ewan and Hayden acted in the damaged mask scene honestly caused me to tear up. They both portrayed the emotions perfectly. This paired with the best use of lighting in the entire series made it one of my favourite ever star wars moments despite the flaws of the show.
I don’t really see how Obi Wan managed to force push Vader twice, he’s not stronger than him and Vader wasn’t distracted. Perhaps it was because Vader was too focused on killing him.
Also can Obi Wan actually lift that many heavy rocks at once and throw them, if it was Vader doing it then I’d get that. Probably just thinking of Leia gave him extra strength
Well obiwan is pretty strong in the force within his own right if you look at the lore but what i think happens when Vader fights people anakin loved and cared he’s not just fighting said person but Vader is also fighting anakin from within which is why his power seems to be hindered
"he’s not stronger than him"
That's where you're wrong kiddo
Maybe its just a bad show thats why?
not to mention he was able to also match Vaders physical strength and be better at offense than him... all that while he is 10 years with no training or anything
Obi Wan is an extremely strong force user, I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
I love this channel so much. It’s so cool to see someone nerd out with something you personally love
Dude I got chills because it was so epic when Vader stopped the boulder and was like "Ahh, Your strength has returned.... But the *WEAKNESS, STILL REMAINS* !
Plus the force earthquake, still shows that if he really wanted to be could've crushed kenobi
Ep 1: rescuing a kidnapped princess, finding the chosen one
Ep 2: protecting a princess, exploring the universe of Star Wars, fighting bounty hunters
Ep 3: a fight between a master and an apprentice, one of them ended up burning
Ep 4: rescuing a kidnapped princess, infiltrating and escaping an imperial base
Ep 5: the empire strikes back, stormtroopers right at the front gate
Ep 6: epic lightsaber duel full of emotional turmoil that end the saga, one of the antagonist is turned back into the light after seeing Luke Skywalker
It's like poetry, it rhymes
Ah very clever never noticed this
Yeah it's interesting how each episode shadows the movies
The circle is now complete. Because i saw it kn that sense i understood instead of being disappointed. Lots complained. But it came as a love letter to what George Lucas had done both to prequel and original trilogy.
And seeing what they out to reference in both ks exactly this
This is why i loved it. Sure Reva i got they could have done better if the episodes were longer like at least 1 hour each
Thematically this kind of works but if you break down the series of plot driving events this is what the show consisted of.
Episode 1: princess captured
Episode 2: princess rescued
Episode 3: princess captured
Episode 4: princess rescued
Episode 5: Obi-wan captured and then escapes
Episode 6: A final duel between Vader and his older master (which was awesome) and a repetitively troped out redemption arc for the supporting villain character (already seen with Vader, Kyle ren, Asaj ventress off the top of my head)
I really liked some of the writing when it came to developing characters for ANH and retconning dialogue in that makes later lines in the sequels extremely powerful. However the overall plot driving this show was lazily written. The reva arc was an annoying nuisance that detracted from the other characters and for only a six episode series I think they were paced poorly.
I love Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. My uncle gave me a CD of it on one of my birthdays when I was a child and I listened to it so many times. What a great story.
Also: I hope we are going to see Ian McDiarmid in Andor again as well. We get to see the Imperial Senate in live action for the first time, they have to give us a Palpatine speech or something like that. That would be so cool
They hinted that thinking of saving the children from the dark side (Luke and Lelah) gave Obi Wan the extra strength. Like a mama bear whose cubs are in danger. It's a very Disney thing.
Meaning lame canned bs?
I totally agree with this. Sometimes it's easy to forget while watching this series that this is only the beginning of vader and this is the first time he has faced obiwan since Mustafar. I'm not angry that obiwan beat him. It makes sense. Obiwan was able to get his strength back and center himself thinking about his true purpose. Vader is still conflicted and I think this is the most conflicted he will be until ROTJ. I love hoe that fight showed that. Not to mention his janky tech he is working with and most of his agility gone.
Fight should’ve ended after Vader buried Kenobi. He even called Kenobi master at that point and this connects it to the original trilogy when Vader said he was the leaner and kenobi was the master. Vader shouldn’t have lost. He’s in his prime and at this point is capable of defeating any of the prequel era Jedi. If this show took place maybe a few yrs after ROTS it would make sense for Vader to lose but, this is 10 yrs after and Vader has learnt a lot and has been hunting Jedi for fun whilst kenobi has been disconnected from the force and combat. Vader should’ve won ...
Exact same thoughts
True. Makes much more sense. Instead we got that stupid outcome.
Exactly.
this resolution wasn't about powel levels. It was about Anakin's conflict and Obi-Wan's force clarity he gained from the adventure he was on.
The same argument is made when talked about Anakins loss in ROTS. He lost because he was conflicted, not because he was underpowered compared to Obi-Wan, on the contrary- the chosen one was a favoured horse strength-wise.
He is not in his prime. He's more powerful in a new hope. All this was explained. In a new hope he became more used to his suit and most importantly he completely let go of his old self anakin. Vader is this series was still not at his prime. Vader in a new hope is honed, controlled, hatred.
As much as I enjoyed that final fight, I genuinely laughed out loud when Obi-wan went God mode and just started force throwing a hundred rocks at him. Was there ever any indication before that Obi-wan was that powerful with the force? That was like Yoda/Sidious level power, which he never really had.
I wondered about that but I'm fine with it. Lucasfilm has made worse mistakes. It could be explained that Obi Wan tapped into another level he didn't know he had.
yeah, i was thinking the same! but i guess it is called "rey/mary sue/disney skills....
But at the same time, Theory made a video about George talking about the different power levels of the Sith and Jedi in A New Hope and George said that Obi Wan and the Emperor were the same power level. I do think Kenobi was not naturally gifted with the force, he had to work hard to get to these levels but as said above, I think him using his love and hope for the Skywalker kids fueled him past even the power he had in ROTS.
I figure he just went Super Saiyan and tapped into power he didn't know he had - rising to the challenge and all that. I was more confused by how a clapped out old shuttle was able to withstand an assault from a brand new Star Destroyer for long enough for everyone to stand around talking for ages - or why Vader didn't just tractor beam it. Anyway much as I had my issues with this series, I think they really nailed the ending pretty well.
That was not anything crazy, literally just throwing rocks
His original robotic arm beating superior to his newer limbs actually makes a ton of sense, and gives some extra explanation to why Vader so often opts for one handed lightsaber combat rather than a more secure grip he only resorts to when trying to beat down his opponent with power swings.
I think that it's also because his armor makes it harder for him to use both hands for a lightsaber fight.
I am speaking as a real kenobi fan here. You are just talking about how vader is limited in his abilities, but I think obiwan grew much more powerful in this dual than ever before. In the past he only followed the ways of the jedi teachings wich limited him in his powers. Now he embraced his feelings for luke, Leia and past anakin (affection) and grew more powerful with his love for them. Since it's Disney this makes even more sense to me. With him becoming clear in his ways and vader not so much I think it's just logical he beats him at this point, basend on the assumption the most powerful jedi (obiwan is clearly one of) are not naturally a lot weaker than a sith apprentice.
But then again, this is me speaking as a huge kenobi fan😍
Well, you are right. I am a die hard Vader fan (I love Obi wan a lot too) but Obi wan was literally his prime in that fight we have never seen an Obi wan as strong as this one. I mean literally when he used the force to lift all those rocks and other stuffs I was like oh shit! Vader you are f'ed :) . I think this obi wan without a doubt is a candidate to the greatest jedi duelist and maybe even on par with Yoda and Mace windu (in my opinion even better :)) I mean dude he literally destroyed Vader
@@kasraharichehpour3553 i love both. But it was an ass pull to obi wan being evem close to vaders level here.
@@halloweenjack95 to be honest he was not just close, he beat the shit out of him :)))
@@kasraharichehpour3553 and thats makes it even more worse. It makes 0 sense.
@@halloweenjack95 ;)))) yes
I find it interesting that Obi Wan received a "power boost" when he thought of those that he was protecting in Luke and Leia. He gave into those emotions allowing him to be more aggressive but not to the point where he lost his control. I may be wrong but I believe that someone who is truly powerful in the force is someone who can balance the light and dark, who knows when to use those emotions to give them strength but not to the point where they lose who they are.
Like Mace windu
correct as in real life
You are correct. It's why Luke was able redeem his father.
it be cool if they made a vader spin off series. see how his character develop over the years
That was so cool you shouting out the DARK LORD novel.
I went to the bookshelf and grabbed my old beat up hard cover, remembering what a great read it was.
This is why you're my favourite STAR WARS critic/fan.
You always give your honest opinion but mostly instead of bitching about the problems with the newest stuff (far too easy), you focus on STAR WARS at it's best and the all great stuff some of the newer fans might not have encountered yet.
Love seeing Vader trying revert back to fighting like anakin for a moment. I think shows even more that Vader is heavily conflicted.
Because he was overconfident in his abilities just like in Revenge of the Sith.
So 10 years after losing in ROTS he hasn't changed at all??? Great writing!
not true
With all the ridiculous feats he has in this time period (well, he should have, but he didn't because Disney barely knows who Darth Vader is), he would have the right to be overconfident and still beat Obi-Wan with low difficulty.
Or consumed by his own rage as well as overconfident.
After the fight after saying to the Emperor he means nothing Vader decided to focus on his failure to improve himself especially since they’re part of the reason why he is in that suit which led to rebels, Rogue one and well I’m sure everyone got the rest.
Oh for the record just for the heck of it when it comes to his personal enemies it would be a big wonder why Vader would lose his temper😏.
@@eskanda3434 GrEaT wRiTing, seriously since the kenobi serious launched everyone become a film director that won like millions of oscars
He lost because he was conflicted. His emotions were so messed up that he couldn't use the dark side appropriately.
When he is calm he is pure destruction. However, he was emotional from the very first swing of the saber.
Exactly!!!!!
@Bingo Of course you would say that. Yeah, the show isn’t perfect, but that’s also true for anything that has been released, even Star Wars. Nothing is perfect, and nothing ever will be.
flashback to episode 3 when in his "conflict" he threw kenobi in the damn fire
@Bingo LoL
@@Arahan96 During episode 3 Obi-wan was terrified and inexperienced with the force. As conflicted as Vader was it wasn't nearly as bad as Obi-wan was at that time.
Your Palpatine impression was spot on!
I'll give you 10283 dollars (my savings)
Well, Theory, please tell us your opinion about Obi-Wan’s evolution. We know, that you are a master in the Anakin/Vader knowledge, but also your unique attend to analyse SW characters should be a great deal in this question. I personally am interested in your speculation on Obi-Wan’s power level, skill, etc. obviously he is more experienced now, than he was before, even though he didn’t use the force for the past 10 years. The series show that he regained his abilities very fast and there are some tremendous factors, like his acceptance of the new ways of thinking beside the old Jedi teachings, especially on the attachments. Because we saw that now he received the power because of his feelings to Leia and Luke. I know that his ability to defeat Vader is mostly because of he is his former master. But I think many people doesn’t give him much acceptance. However I think that he is powerful Jedi and one of the best in his era. Please release a video on Kenobi, now that we know his new power level and abilities. Also please tell us the possible outcome of their match up on Death Star, cause I think he still had the power to oppose Vader at that time period. It obviously was his choice to sacrifice himself in order for the kids to escape.
Thank you. Been a subscriber since I don’t know for how many years already.
The series did a great job with episode 6. Seeing Hayden under the mask and hearing his voice connected Vader and Anakin in a way we've never seen. It hit really different
He won because nothing beats the 'light-side-happy-flashbacks-when-the-main-character-almost-dies' Power
beating vader a second time was dumb it make kenobi look like an idiot for not killing him. Badly written with a hero who is a serial killer but awe she didnt kill one little kid. Wow what a hero
I'm curious to get your thoughts on the dialogue between Anakin/Vader and Obi Wan. I felt it was some remnant of Anakin that said
"Anakin is gone. I'm what remains"
"I am not your failure, Obi Wan"
I think this Anakin telling Obi Wan that he is responsible for his own decisions and shortcomings. This is also Anakin telling Obi Wan that the Anakin he remembers is gone and can't come back after the atrocities that he committed during order 66. There's no way for him to go back to that Anakin. And he sounds very sad about that imo.
"You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker. I did" - this is Vader speaking. Totally maniacal. It's like a total 180 in facial expression, tonality etc. It's like we're talking to a totally different person in the same body.
Brilliant scene. I loved it because it shows that there's a sad, broken Anakin inside of Vader that is crying for help and is sad about where his life has gone.
I agree completely. Anakin and Vader seem like a split personality.
First, it was amazing having Hayden play Vader, and hearing his own voice speak to Kenobi after the mask was slashed open. Second, it was equally amazing hearing Anakin seemingly let Kenobi off of the hook by telling him that his master did not fail him, only to hear Vader come back and say that he killed Anakin. I felt that there might have been a missed opportunity for Kenobi to instill the idea in Vader that Anakin was still in there despite things. I think it's obvious that Vader overestimated Kenobi's ability by still thinking of him as weak and not realizing his own suit limitations against a Jedi as powerful as Kenobi, and one so powerful that Vader had not faced in his quest to hunt down remaining Jedi in the galaxy to that date. Kenobi could have finished Vader. Kenobi came back and fought like he did against Maul when Qui Gon was killed.
I feel that Vader really hates what he has become and deep inside and even with his systems damaged he was willing to fight with Obi Wan Kenobi to his last breath, even if he got killed by Obi Wan.
Yeah I mean Palpatine pretty much said that Vader wasn’t at full power:
“Perhaps your feelings for your old master have left you weakened.”
Hello again Jordan, always a pleasure to see your comments.
I’m surprised that you’re still claiming Vader lost due to his confliction.
You obviously didn’t pay any attention while watching the series. (And to all the times I’ve called you out on this).
Vader lost, and the series makes it very clear why he lost, with the flashbacks and commentary that Obi Wan gives.
Vader undoubtedly has more raw power than Obi Wan, even as Anakin he quickly became more powerful than Obi Wan as his apprentice. (As shown in the flashbacks).
However, raw power alone doesn’t decide the outcome of a duel.
Somehow a big portion of the Star Wars fanbase seems to think this, but it’s a simple minded view that is debunked time and time again.
Vader lost, not because of his power level, but because of the flaws with his personality.
Vader is impatient, arrogant and his desire to win blinds him.
Obi Wan knows this, and even mentioned it during the flashback.
While Obi Wan might not have the raw power of the chosen one, he definitely makes up for it with his wit.
It’s why he was able to defeat Maul in 3 moves, even though Maul is arguably stronger than Kenobi.
@@m_rubenboy even palpatine said it in the end, if it were any other jedi even stronger than obi wan they would have been cooked
Master I been waiting for the lesson
First
U first
I know
Honestly I almost cryd when I saw Qui gon jin in the last episode, I went back to the watch party to see your reaction and I almost did again when I did
Same tho
I always wondered why Vader didn't upgrade his technology himself. He just kept the junk Palpatine set him up with?
Exactly, always wondered the same thing.
The real life reason is we need an explanation for why he was so clunky in the og films lol. I think the Canon reason is that the suit caused him more pain and that made him stronger in the darkside. Keeping his hate strong.
The suit was a benefit to him because of the pain it put him in, which he used to draw on the dark side for power
I have read that he did to whatever extent he could, which was limited, a lot of the stuff that would be needed to change for him to control better robotics would require him to remove some of his life support and also stuff conected to his brain i think botho of which could kill him.
In canon Vader did upgrade the armor multiple times. Palpatine spared no expense and gave him the best equipment. It's only in legends that he had subpar cybernetics.
Ewan *did* say that “This is a 100%, fully realized Vader”. I know that Ewan does not have authority over Star Wars but that is most likely what he was told by the writers.
Kinda wonder how Vader would react if in that moment, obiwan told him that he’s been protecting his kids from sidious and that it’s not too late to do the right thing
I mean at this point, Vader hates Obiwan. I doubt he’d believe anything he would say.
He'd likely obsess over kidnapping them and turning them to the dark side.
@@BlueLion1996 I get what you saying but Obi-wans lack off knowing how to talk to Anakin is why he always fails him he is just a Jedi in full throttle no proper social skills
I can’t agree with that, 10 years of killing Jedi and everything else vs no training not touching the force not touching a lightsaber, it was plot. I liked and hated this so I just wish he didn’t lose as bad its just hard for me to grasp it😹
Maybe if this was a year or two after ROTS but 10 years? Completely recontextualized Vader after his defeat in Rots he created his own Saber form to specifically overcome his armour completely dedicated to using his full extent of force ( unlike anakin) has crazy Feats and power , so at this time period Prime vader is considered to be more powerful than Anakin Mustafar and yet he loses to a 10 year past his prime obi wan ? and too add obi wan was considered to have one of the weakest connections to the force in the temple....
In these sort of fights you make plot reasons why its a draw like superman v goku you cant really have a winner so its better to have a Draw
this just makes me think vader isnt a threat at any time obi wan without practicing can just beat him... Not to mention all the thousands of people vader will kill after this thats now on obi wan first time he thought he killed him this time he just walks away..
there is a comic issue next month that Vader is duelling Palps for the first time I was hyped.... now he cant even beat obi wan what chance does he have to even scratch palps sadly
Disney's odd obsession with the good guys coming out ahead shows through in the worst ways.
@@tek512 I agree. and having bad guys become good ( boba )
yes, it's clear Vader was able to fight by this point, those troubles he had were something from the first year in the suit , not at this point where he's slaughtered every Jedi he's encountered for 10 years , also it's just weird Obi Wan apparently had zero connection to the force for 10 years, if this was set like 3 or 4 years after ROTS then maybe , but the state of those 2 made no sense with the time scale they used to have Leia feature more prominently
If I hear /read that "Left Side / Right Side / Entire Mask" analogy ONE MORE TIME I'm going to puke.
While everyone knows that obi wan was supposed to get the best of Vader this time, to setup the new hope line, I hate how it happened. Obi wan completely overpowered Vader the 2nd half of the fight which should be impossible for anyone in this point in time except for the emperor. I thought this fight should’ve been about Vader displaying his immense power of obi wan but obi wan somehow finding a clever way to outsmart Vader in the end. Just hard to imagine Darth Vader the lord of the sith being overpowered by a Jedi who had disconnected from the force for 10 years. Idk just my opinion
Your right how is it that Vader who has been hunting Jedi for 10 years loses to someone has not been training for 10 years and, I don't know why people said that Vader had to lose in order to connect to a new hope but he did not they could have had that fight end in a drawn.
@@shadowslayer9988 I agree, but hearing anakin's voice and broken vader's voice was veey good. Fight could be more tied tho, at least when obiwan destroies vader's suit
I think it was made very clear that Vader was fairly weakened by his emotions and was blinded by his hate for Obiwan. He also showed flashes of Anakin and the conflict between is past self made him weak. Vader is comfortably a stronger fighter but that's not always what matters.
So accurate comment! And I am really surprised that people thinking like this are minority vs. who liked it. Ofc. the scenes were enjoyable but there is no single way Vader could be bested, let alone being humiliated like this.
@@jaker9674 I got a problem with this "conflicted" argument. This is the same Vader that threw Obi Wan into fire and wanted to burn him alive.The same guy that already hunted many Jedi and who just cracks the necks of ordinary people.
Also, no Jedi becomes one with the Force and geta non-sense power upgrade in 2 days. It takes much more than a man who disconnected from the Force for 10 years.
İt was a complete Kenobi fan service, I am not gonna deny that it was very emotional and enjoyable - the execution of this scene is illogical and not realistic within SW universe.
Agree that Obi wan just brings to much emotion on Vader for him to overcome, don’t agree that he lost because of his suit limiting his movements, maybe that was the case in Legends but in the new Canon Darth Vader suit doesn’t seem to be much of a issue
This was almost as emotional as Luke’s return in the Mandalorian.
Bruh luke is my fav character I cried because they gave him justice 🙏
@@brockbartlett666 he's my favorite too. I'm glad we finally got to see him shine.
Was anyone else hoping to see Obi-Wan use force speed again? I thought it was one of coolest force abilities and I can't help but to feel as though they missed an opportunity to show that off again in Kenobi.