Why Obi-Wan Let Vader Live AGAIN After Vowing to End Him - My Analysis
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- Опубліковано 4 лис 2024
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In episode 6 of the Obi-Wan Kenobi show on Disney plus, we saw Obi-Wan fight Anakin / Vader once again, and this time, let him live again.
I see a lot of discourse regarding him letting Kenobi live, so here's my take on it.
Do you think Obi-Wan should have let him live? Do you think it makes sense?
I think it fits well with A New Hope where Vader tells Obi-Wan '''when I left you I was but the learner...now I am the master.'
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To me, it would have been cool to see Obi Wan (reluctantly) ready to kill Vader, but Qui Gon's voice tell him not to, kinda like he did to Anakin as he was killing the tusken raiders
That would’ve been good
That would’ve worked.
Damnnnnnn that’s a great idea
Bro yesss
I agree, killing Vader would have messed with the continuity for 4-6 lol
Frodo: “It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance."
Gandalf: "Pity? It is pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment." -Tolkien
I was thinking this very thing, plus: "My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many."
Obi Wan literally encourages Luke to kill Vader though so using this quote is meaningless lol
"he's more machine than man now"
Good reference
@@mgd8867 because he fails to do it himself.
I kinda hoped Obi-Wan would’ve said something along the lines of “I know there’s good in you. Padme believed there’s still good in you” which would’ve pissed off Vader hearing Padme’s name and lead to him saying “Anakin is gone!” This would also connect to how in Return of the Jedi when Luke said all the “I feel the good in you” stuff, Vader responded with “Obi-Wan once thought as you do.” I think this would’ve made the scene that much more emotional than it already is.
You literally stole my comment it’s good tho. And he tried turning him by apologizing and referring to him as anakin.
Not but idea but what’s the fun in character verbalize everything in his mind??? That’s what made Lucas’s screenplay childish.
That would’ve been good because I never got a sense from Obi-Wan that he ever actually believed in the goodness in Vader. We know from the OT that he thought Vader was totally evil, in ROTS he pretty much felt the same way, immediately dismissing him as irredeemable despite apparently being like a brother. So I’m wondering where Vader got the idea that Obi-Wan ever felt the same way Luke did, because he never once seemed to believe in Vader’s ability to find the light.
@@tommyl.dayandtherunaways820 He tries to reason with him the entire way through until Anakin completely blocks him out and they start fighting. He does it a bit agressively because he's emotionally hurt, but if he didn't believe in Anakin he would've wasted no time engaging him. Instead he talked, tried to reason with him. Even paused after they started fighting to try to reason some more. "But Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!" He says this halfway through the fight, Anakin just responds "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" and Obi-wan can't respond to that, so he just accepts that Anakin is lost.
So no, he didn't immediately dismiss him being redeemable. He tried, but Anakin wouldn't budge, so he gave up. So in this sense, yes Obi-wan once thought as Luke did. A long time ago when he still had three limbs.
Damn..
The problem is that Obi-wan says “then my friend is truly dead.” He realizes that there is no hope to save him, and refers to him as “Darth,” not Anakin. He now has every reason in that moment to finish him off, in order to protect Luke, Leia, other Jedi in hiding, and the potential millions of innocents that Vader would go on to murder in the future. At the very least he should have finished him off to put him out of his misery, in the name of the love he had for his former best friend.
I kinda feel like he maybe pity Vader by saying that? And not really meaning it?
your right but plot armour since they have over done this same time line we always know who lives and dies
I think it proved that Obi-Wan is still a Jedi. He wouldn't kill a beaten opponent who couldn't defend himself anymore. Which isn't always the logical choice as pointed out by Anakin many times.
It’s not the Jedi way to execute. When Anakin killed Dooku that was a dark side move.
Ben wouldn’t make a dark side move. I don’t get how ppl don’t see that.
By killing Vader then & there that would’ve hindered the Empire sure.. but Palpatine is still the head honcho which means the Empire would still exist, the Death Star would still be made.. millions of people still would die.. he’s not really gaining/stopping anything by finishing Vader off.
Kenobi knows full well if he kills Vader he would simply be replaced just like when he killed Maul.. it stopped NOTHING..
as long as Palpatine is Emperor, the fate of the galaxy would still have the same outcome.
Kenobi might win the battle but the Jedi are still losing the war.. in the end it IS Vader who destroys the Empire & Palpatine.. not Obi-wan or Luke.
If OWK hadn’t seen Anakin’s face, he’d have probably gone for the kill, but after revealing his face, he realised he wasn’t just fighting Vader, he was fighting Anakin. Ben had a burst of power from the force drawing from emotion, thinking about the twins, think of it like an adrenaline rush, seeing Anakin’s face stopped this rush. Kenobi was in beast mode and then once he realised what was going on, the rush was over.
Exactly ! Well put :)
What you said 😅👌🏾💯
I can see where you're coming from but I don't believe Darth Vader or Obi-Wan are able to be completely honest in their dialogue. My head canon is that Obi-Wan still sensed Anakin in Darth Vader (when he calls him Darth, it comes off as mocking as Obi-Wan believes he is not aware of it himself). As a student of Qui-Gon, someone who believed in the Living Force, Obi-Wan's instincts told him to spare Darth Vader's life. Perhaps in the short term, killing Darth Vader prevents more tragedy but it is not what the Living Force is telling him. I think that Obi-Wan finally being able to see Qui-Gon's Force Ghost is an acknowledgment that Obi-Wan is on the right path and made the decision attuned to the Living Force.
I think something worth mentioning is that I think there's a good chance that Darth Vader might have spared Obi-Wan when he was toying with him in Episode 3.
On the gradient of the pacing, it comes off that they worked backwards from the last episode. The writers knew that they needed Obi-Wan to best Darth Vader (if there was any direct conflict between the two) and they needed to be sure to set the pieces so the story can still flow into A New Hope.
It might be interesting to look into how the 6 different episodes map onto the prequel and original trilogy, they might rhyme.
I think this scene would have been the perfect opportunity to have the Qui-Gon cameo. Have Qui-Gon speak to Obi-Wan's mind and tell him that he would not be the one to defeat Vader, and that he may yet bring balance to the force. It would have made way more sense than Obi-Wan just walking away after vowing moments before that one of them would die, and it would add to why Obi-Wan doesn't even try to beat Vader in A New Hope and just lets him strike him down.
Agreed
When did obi-wan vow one of them has to die? think i missed it
@@Radec913 when he talks about finishing this.
Yeah that’d be cool
but I think the way they brought Qui-Gon in solidified the kind of peace with the light side you need to have to be able to perceive those who have become one with the force
He wouldn’t have been able to communicate with Qui-Gon in the state he was in mid fight
Yeah you’d never get hired by them your take is too logical.
I saw it as Obi-Wan was conflicted about killing Anakin. In his mind he believes Anakin is gone but subconsciously I think he still has hope Anakin could return. He still loves Anakin, he wouldn't be able to live with himself if he actually struck him down. Almost similar to how Anakin is conflicted about Obi-Wan aswell.
That makes me think of a quote by Yangchen from ATLA,
"Avatar Aang, I know that you're a gentle spirit
and the monks have taught you well,
but this isn't about you.
This is about the world.
But the monks taught me that I had to detach myself
from the world so my spirit could be free.
Many great and wise Air Nomads have detached themselves
and achieved spiritual enlightenment,
but the Avatar can never do it
because your sole duty is to the world.
Here is my wisdom for you:
Selfless duty calls you to sacrifice
your own spiritual needs
and do whatever it takes to protect the world.
I guess I don't have a choice, Momo.
I have to kill the Fire Lord."
Here Obi-Wan selfishly chooses his own spiritual needs over the fate of the galaxy.
It is plausible that his guilt over killing Anakin extremely weakened his connection with the force, and that he would lose it again, if he actually preoceeded to kill him.
Still a very selfish move.
I wish the dialog reflected that…
I don't know why this is a debate, literally dating back to the Old Republic (Canon Gray Area) Bastila says Jedi don't execute their prisoners, no matter what their crimes, they literally saved Darth Revan who had at that point done more damage to the galaxy physically than the Galactic Empire had at this point in the canon(Deathstar and all the forcible galactic oppression comes later).
Obi-Wan would do what he must have (like he said). He's done it even in ep3 when Anakin actually looked liked Anakin and haven't slaughtered thousands yet
@@freepizza589 he killed maul without hesitation...
Your point is greatly flawed.
This show just had bad writing
As soon as his face was partially revealed and Kenobi's initial reaction was to see Anakin, and feel sorrow, there was no way he was going to be able to kill him. And finishing off somebody when they are down and beaten is "not the Jedi way", as we saw with Luke vs Vader, but not Anakin vs Dooku..
But that also makes Obi-Wan responsible for the countless murders that Vader would go on to commit. Wouldn't the Jedi Way be to try to redeem them and if that's not possible to stop them from killing? If imprisonment isn't possible, then killing them would be the only way to stop them. Because Obi-Wan let Vader live, all of Alderaan is destroyed and the Empire's number one enforcer is alive and well to come back stronger.
Well now let’s be honest here for a second, if the war had not been a totally fabricated set up from the beginning, letting Dooku live would’ve been one of the stupidest things Anakin could have done. The man is a master tactician and manipulator, it would have been no trouble for him to worm his way out of prison, get a couple of prosthetic hands for himself, and be right back to leading the confederacy, causing countless more deaths in the galaxy. You never let an enemy as dangerous as Dooku live if you can help it. Don’t take my word for it, Mace Windu said it himself when referring to Palpatine: “He’s too dangerous to be left alive”
So yeah sometimes Jedi do need to kill, and honestly Obi-Wan should have finished Vader if he had the chance. I think the reason he didn’t is because he still had an attachment, which is great character development because Obi-Wan spent the entire prequel trilogy chastising Anakin for his attachments, but now he realizes that it isn’t as easy to let go as he thought it would be.
Similarly Anakin spared Kenobi twice in this series: when he cast him out of the fire and when he left him under the rubble without sensing him going cold. They just can’t bring themselves to kill one another. For Vader it is ab beating Kenobi and for Kenobi it is ab stopping this evil
Agree, i dont think vaders obsession was ever really about killing obi wan, but proving he was better and could best him in combat now.
@@keelobrown4991 have you even watched a new hope fella?
@@mouse7965 im talking about in this show, not a new hope, im fully aware that vaders goal was to kill kenobi in that. But he even says "now i am the master" so that competitive obsession is still there to. Take your sly little comments somewhere else "fella"
@@keelobrown4991true, as a jedi Anakin knew he was a better swordsman’s hence the confidence he had, Also in the show Anakin duels obi wan and Anakin beats obi wan and disarms him, not to mention on mustafar Anakin was winning easily it was just the move obiwan did against
maul that Anakin was gonna do obi wan knew how to counter it hence “don’t try it”
@@keelobrown4991sensitive you were
The fact that Vader said ‘Anakin wasn’t your failure. I killed Anakin’ actually implied that Anakin was still there, despite what he literally said. Anakin wanted to relieve him of his guilt. That created sympathy in Obi Wan to where he couldn’t kill him.
You notice he didnt have sith eyes at that point. Anakin knows obi wan through and through and to see his former master literally break down for something that he felt reasonable for.. anakin in a twisted way was just stating facts but at the same time wanted to own his own failure to himself and take it off obi wan.
I don’t think that’s true. Anakin didn’t kill Anakin. Darth Vader killed Anakin. Anakin ceased to exist and became Darth Vader. At least that’s what he was saying, which I don’t think necessarily constitutes him manifesting himself as Anakin. That being said obviously he did not turn all evil.
I think Anakin came through and told Obi Wan that he wasn't his failure. Then Vader took over again
I totally agree, Nirvana. That was so well-written.
I think it was more Dath Vaders pride than anakins sympathy. You didn't kill me I did. It shows Vaders power and growth.
Pretty cool idea, the “Qui Gon Jin” thing. But I just believe Obi saw his face and completely broke down. He had been dealing with failing Anakin since it happened. But technically hadn’t seen his face although with the force he can sense the Anakin somewhere in Vader. I think it was too much for him once he saw his face through the broken helmet. All the emotions hit him at once. And now he was the conflicted one…
To me Obi-wan was ready to kill Vader, he was fully committed during their fight. It was like the old days, fighting a droid, a very powerful one, very much like facing Grievous again. UNTIL he saw his face, until he heard his voice. Obi-wan face changed, he then realized who he was really fighting. He was so much into putting an end to Vader that he forgot who he really was. After ten years, he saw Anakin again, what remains of him, the very same way he left him, phisically and mentally damaged . His heart broke once again. He could kill Vader, he had defeated him twice now, but he cannot kill Anakin. That is Obi-wan weakness. Anakin was his brother, he'd rather die than kill him. He simply can't. Seeing him again brought enough pain and memories to Obi-wan. So of course he left, how could anyone kill his brother.
"The bond between a jedi teacher and his apprentice is strong"
Anyway that's MY view on this matter. Loved this scene either way. "I'm not your failure, Obi-wan", c'mon i'm already crying
He confirms that anakin is dead, is now darth vader. But doesn’t kill him? Everyone who dies thanks to vader and his own children being at risk with vader being alive.. that’s all down to obi wan now. Too many Star Wars fans are delusional to how bad this is for continuity and the characters and how bad the writing is in this show..
@@jak3brap10 brodie everyone knows the writing was bad. it was honestly atrocious, like this show shouldn’t have even been written. we were just happy to see ewan and hayden regardless of the way this messes up the continuity. and there were some great moments, we just have to take the good with the bad.
That could be a good answer, but the series (and ep. V) shows clearly that Obi-Wan believed that Anakin was really gone. He said to Luke that Vader killed his father, and to Maul that he believed Luke was the chosen one.
The fact that Luke bring Anakin back from the dark side at the very end is entirely Luke's merit.
Obi-Wan tried, Ahsoka kinda tried, everyone tried and failed, and gave up. But Luke tried despite all that, and finally succeeded.
@@jak3brap10 Vader was always conflicted. The fact that he said I'm not your failure significates Anakin was there, even though he says he killed him. He always said that, and tried to show everyone and even himself how distant he was from Anakin. You can even see his eyes turning from sith to Anakin's blue. This Vader doesn't even refers to Anakin as a third person in some moments, which he does in future time. So Anakin was always there, otherwise Luke wouldn't be able to bring him back in ROTJ.
Was the writing bad? Some times.
Were thing that didn't make sense at all? Definetly.
But Anakin was always there.
@@PCGeines pretty much agree with that, but I also think that older Obi-wan had more time to meditate about it and to see the atrocities Vader was commiting and the tirany he ruled with. This Obi-wan went from knowing he was alive to fighting him in like 4 days, so you could say it caught him by surprise.
About Luke bringing him back, all the credit to the man, for sure. The only thing in the entire galaxy that Vader cared of was Padmé and the boy was the only thing that left of her. So I guess his heart got soft and the man gave up. Given the situation that after 20 years of getting deeper and deeper into the dark side he couldn't acomplish bringing her back from the dead.
Letting him live the first time worked out so well… I’m going to let him live again. What’s the worst that could happen? It’ll be fine…
Execution is not the Jedi way. This was proven when Anakin’s turn to the dark side started when he killed Dooku while defenseless
@@Ravensbro04 tell that to Obi Wan when he sliced Maul and blasted Grevious.
@@HoodedSpidey that wasn't an execution tho and he wasn't defenseless 🤔
Exactly!
@@lukedaley7385 Oh, yes. Let him execute BILLIONS then
Here’s a theory on Kenobi’s perceived power during this fight with Vader: As you mentioned in another video, Obi Wan enters the fight with renewed strength that was similar to his strength as a Jedi had been. Kenobi’s strength comes full force when he is in desperation and contemplating the twins. Mind you, he’s not just considering his responsibility or duty to them, but he is overwhelmed with his love for them. Time and time again, we see Obi Wan become much more powerful when he allows his attachments to motivate him. He was trained his whole life in the temple to reject attachments, but he can’t help but love Satine, Anakin, Luke, and Leia. His attachment is what strengthens him, so that he comes out of the pit with newfound power to absolutely overwhelm Vader. I think it is similar to their experience on Mustafar in ROTS. Further, this is why Obi Wan is able to see Quigon on Tatooine. Quigon was committed to serving the living force above the Jedi counsel, which is why he was the first to transcend the counsel’s abilities, even that of Yoda. I think that Quigon understands that being a steward of the living force means being balanced in purpose and passions. Star Wars has never been about finding balance between dark and light side. That was the greatest farce of The Last Jedi. To “bring balance to the force” means balance in passion for the sake of love. That is why Quigon became self actualized after death. That is why Luke became a Jedi master. And ultimately, that is why Anakin had the strength to defeat the emperor in ROTJ. Anakin was motivated in the light side of the force by his love for his son. Luke’s mastery was in his understanding of his passion for his friends, his sister, and his father. He never denied himself the passion, he just ruled over the passion rather than letting it rule over him. So when Kenobi fights Vader in this final episode of the season, he is strengthened in the force by his motivation of passion and love. That’s why he defeated Vader, that’s why he couldn’t kill Vader, and that’s why he can begin his training with Quigon.
Additionally, Luke was never taught to stifle his passion for attachments. So immediately when Obi Wan dies in A New Hope, he is able to communicate with Obi Wan’s force ghost. Luke was a perfect template to become a true grand master, as he didn’t have any of the flaws of the Jedi and was solely allowing himself to become what the force would shape him to be. Mastery of passions is balance in the force. Rejecting attachments is a dogmatic strategy for avoiding the downfall of the Sith, which was to be ruled by one’s passions. True balance is the reconciliation of passion, and is always on the light side of the force.
@@michaelaper5101 THIS
The training session actually explains this. "A Jedi's task is to defend life, not take it." "Mercy doesn't eliminate the enemy" - Anakin. Obi Wan has always been a Jedi through-and-through; and stuck to the Jedi code when it came to ending the "chosen one's" life, and to his dying days. Also, the brother dynamic; he couldn't bring himself... again.
HE WANTS LUKE TO KILL VADER IN THE OT!
Leaving Vader alive makes no sense with Obi-Wan in the OG trilogy. He actively wanted Luke to kill Vader to save the galaxy. Kenobi doing this also dooms countless people. It makes no sense to me personally
How about the poor stroomtropers in the series ? Did he think about that when he kill general Grevious in the prequel ? How about the scavangers in the New Hope, didnt they just try to make a living ? I find this idea very inconsistent
Okay you have half of it, but from the replies, it seems the others aren't connecting the rest of it. Jedi can't execute their opponents. They can't kill helpless opponents. A jedi, in their quest to defend life, can end the life of those who endanger them in battle. However, if an opponent yields, is unarmed, or helpless, the Jedi can no longer kill that opponent. Vader was barely managing to stay on his own two feet, he was definitely helpless, even if he was armed with a lightsaber. Obi-wan couldn't kill him without breaking the Jedi code.
@@mar_speedman I get what you mean but what about Grievous? He was unarmed and running away when Obi-Wan killed him.
And even if it is against the code, it still puts countless people at risk by leaving Vader alive. It reminds me a bit of the Mandalorian Wars. Revan wanted to venture out and stop the bloodshed and the councils wanted the Jedi to wait. Or even with Mace and Palpatine where Mace stated that Sheevy was too dangerous to be kept alive.
It would have made more sense if Palpatine went over Vader’s head and ordered a platoon to Stormtroopers to come to his aid. That way Kenobi wins the duel, but is forced to leave.
Yes that would’ve been much better👍
This but it's starkiller
Or the Grand Inquisitor swoops in and forces Obi Wan to retreat
That would never have worked. Palpatine sees the conflict between the two as the final right of passage for Vader
Dude yes!! Perfect.
He did not finish him because this was the exact moment he realized that Qui-Gon was right and the prophecy was true.
When he was in the pit of rock he felt the importance of Luke/Leia and this vision gave him his path which gained him strength in the force.. When Obi-Wan cut open Vaders mask and he seen the light and the dark side flashes on his face and in his eyes he knew that Vader/Anakin must live in order to fulfill the prophecy and bring balance to the force. Qui-Gon finally appeared to him at the end of the episode signifying this insight.
He understood Anakin must live and never tried to kill him again, even on the Death Star. Obi-Wan knew he must live to fulfill the prophecy, Luke/Leia were critical to this even if he didn't understand exactly why.
That's a long post to applogize for bad writting...
@@HockeyRiveNord Yeah i was about to say…. None of this is actually in the show. All this is just baseless speculation
I don't think Obi-Wan thought that Anakin was the chosen one. He thinks Luke is the chosen one in Rebels
@@Sizzox true, but its a Star Wars Theory. I needed a better reason then he just wasn't a threat anymore.
@@HockeyRiveNord lol, good point. I hope you are not right though.
He didn't only see leia when he was burried, he also saw luke, I don't think it was his love that gave him strength it was his hope for the future being restored when he saw leia being like padme and Luke (pretending to podrace) being like anakin in the phantom menace. He's seeing them as a second chance for the galaxy where things can turn out better
YEAH I guess therefore in ROTJ he is trying to convince Luke to kill Vader... something he couldn't bring upon himself to do
Yes!
Lol one shot of Luke, the rest leia. Because leia is what matters, “it’s not about the boy”.
he saw mostly Leia lmao
This is how is trying to convince us that Leia's relationship with Obi-Wan is more important and yet they act like they've never met in NEW HOPE and she never even reacted to Obi-Wan's death.
It makes it even worse when Obi Wan lies to Luke and then gaslights him to Kill Vader when he himself couldn't do it.
I think Anakin's affection/hatred for Obi Wan had made him slightly weaker in the fight ,although he tried to bury it, knowing the fact that he knew he was better than his master, but again just like in revenge of the sith he became overconfident and blinded towards Obi Wan's his strategy and deception to defeat him.
Here’s my interpretation, and this even lines up with his decision to let him live in ROTS. George Lucas has confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one even when he destroyed Sideous as darth Vader. My bet is that the force (whether obi wan realizes it or not) is willing obi wan to let Anakin live because he still needs to bring balance to the force. The force is literally intervening in obi wan’s tendencies because it’s that important for Anakin to live. Simple answer and very cool, and still cannon
This what I think too.
Trusting in the force.
That is how the force works! 🤟🏻
Best answer right here 👍
Lines up with the battle on Scarif where everyone dies the moment they are no longer needed. The force is a horrible, bloodthirsty bitch and I’m with Kreia on ending it. The force is the greatest slave owner and tormentor that has ever existed to enslave the will of an entire galaxy.
However I doubt they’re thinking along these lines when writing the new star wars content, I have no faith in them after the new trilogy.
Exactly what I said to a mate today. Trust in the force or the force subconsciously telling Obi Wan to let him live. Good comment 👍
I like this, I thought as much also
I very much believe that had the mask not been “removed”, obiwan would’ve killed him. But anakins face was revealed and all obiwan could see what his tormented friend. I don’t think obiwan had it in him. This is somewhat comparable to anakin and dooku a fight. Dooku was defenseless and beaten. Anakin had enough darkness in him to still kill dooku anyways. Vader is now in a very similar position as dooku and obiwan doesn’t have that darkness in him, it’s not the Jedi way, and on top of that, it’s still his friend in there
Except he says “my friend is dead” showing he doesn’t think that. Also, duku would have been imprisoned if not killed. So then why didn’t obi wan do that?
Except Anakin would have taken Dooku as a prisoner if he didn’t execute him where as Obi wan let him live and just walked away.
@@ShadowWolfIsTheGOAT hey man, obi wan would just let hitler go to prove he isn’t a bad guy…. Cause stopping hitler would totally make you evil.
lmao. cue the excuses. it was terrible. weak writing like a horrible fan film. reva pointless. vader dumb and soft. leia was awesome of course. luke no whre to be seen. useless. ben terrible. 😂
@@edwardrichtofen8530 and then Obi Wan and Yoda telling Luke he has to kill Vader all throughout ROTJ really resonates with the character decisions of Obi Wan in this show. Well done writers, you probably watch Star Wars once 30 years ago. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This scene is what I have always wanted because it was so cool to see obi wan still expressing his emotions to anakin and realizing Vader will never change until Luke shows him the light again, also great fight maybe vader could have showed a little more power.
It almost like Vader kind of wants someone to kill him he always toys with people but because they’re not strong/worthy enough they can’t beat him.
Yes absolutely agree 5 years would have been perfect, his prime as Vader and obiwan looked at least 33 in this series if they had just made the timeline 5 years then old man Ben would make much sense and then Leah not really remembering him too well (i think they shouldn't have made Leia a main/secondary plot point because it makes the original trilogy look bad but that's just me)
Didn't stop much evil lol but truth
this man can't even spell Leia's name...
@@Channel-zf9xv auto correct exists. There's more important things out there than spelling a fictional name right lol
@@tonydiazist fr he trippn
I mean...I think it's philosophical, really. When Obi-Wan spoke to Qui-Gonn and said "It's either him or me." He was referring to Anakin, not Darth Vader. It makes sense with what Obi-Wan tells Luke in ANH. Vader DID betray and murder Anakin and Vader confirmed that at the end of the fight. Vader represents the dark side in Anakin. Promises of great power, everything he craved, etc. But it cost him EVERYTHING. It even cost Anakin his own identity.
from a certain point of view ;)
Bold of you to think that they put that much hidden meaning in a script
Lol, that explains nothing. New star wars fans are just eating this nonsense up and giving it more meaning than it deserves, just because when George was making it, he made these things special.
Deep point!!. Love it
Even if Obi wan meant Anakin instead of Vader, why would Obi-wan want to spare Vader now, but want to kill him throughout the ENTIRE ORIGINAL TRILOGY?
Why would he want to spare Vader in general. To him, Vader is a ruthless murderer consumed by the Dark Side. How does that make him worthy of life compared to Anakin who was his friend?
I feel like it should have played out that towards the end of the fight Obi Wan would sense Luke is in danger. Causing him to leave Vader alive so he can rush back to Tatooine.
It was pity that stayed Obi Wan's hand. Many who live deserve death, some who died deserved life. Can you give it to them?
Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgement, even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Darth Vader has a part to play, for good or evil.. before this is over.
The pity of Obi Wan, may rule the fate of many.
Haha Darth is a lot more bada$$ than Gollum though
I truly believe that if he hadn’t cut through the helmet to see what’s left of Anakin, he would’ve killed Vader then and there. I think seeing Anakin’s face again gave him the willpower to walk away. I think he also knew that Vader was suffering, and in a way I think he wanted that to continue.
@Thisis Gettinboring I think it made him pity Vader, coming to the realization just how pathetic he was.
I absolutely love the unexpected creative decision to have Obi-Wan murk him again. Does so much more service than if it’d been the other way around with Obi-Wan barely escaping.
Also, I can imagine sending Vader back to the Star Destroyer battered and defeated again, must have been very awkward when he arrived. That can’t be good for morale when you see your powerful lord come back defeated.
@@TheFlightSimDeck they probably know it’s Disney so it’s all fake
He would have. Because he all ready tried it twice. he cut him in pieces and let him burn to death. And the attack what broke Vader his helmet definitely was a attack with the intend to kill. It reminded me of Troy when Brad Pitt stabbed someone in the neck. I think it was an attack like that but his helmet got smashed instead. His last attack was an attack to finish him of but then he saw his face and heard his voice again.
To walk away from him twice only fuels his rage even more…
Had Qui Gon appeared to Obi Wan yes i suppose this would've made sense. However, the reason as to why he is unable to speak with Qui Gon is the inner turmoil he feels over Anakin turning to the dark side and abandoning his teachings. Obi Wan evidently suffers from extreme PTSD as a result, and the series is about him working through that.
Obi Wan exemplifies what a true Jedi is. He doesn't kill or maim a living being that's no longer a threat. As such, he reframes the issue in his mind realizing that at this point in time, Anakin Skywalker is long gone and all that remains is Vader.
Overcoming this mental and emotional strife, paves the way towards his enlightened point of view, realizing that Luke becoming a Jedi must be of his own free will. Likewise, he obtained the ability to speak to his fallen master.
Letting him live was a little weird to me until I remembered Anakin’s fight with Count Dooku. Anakin beats Dooku and has the lightsabers to his neck, but hesitates to kill him because as he says, it’s not the Jedi way. But he still does it. Obi Wan is a true Jedi, and won’t kill a defenseless opponent when he already has him beat.
The Jedi were arrogant
Do it! Do it now!
You can’t just ignore that sexy Sidious voice lol
@@justingorton9596 who doesn’t love sexy sheev
@@alexg5237 the sith were literal murderers and very bad people. So yes, they might be arrogant but a 100 times better than the sith
Yet mace windu storms in to slaughter palpatine with no trial lol
Obi Wan literally said in the episode 5 flashback “A Jedis purpose is to protect life not take it”
Bro vader blew up a whole planet 💀
but that choice led to more deaths
Luke: *Tries to take his nephew's life*
Which makes no sense. Even Batman realized that he had to finally kill joker to protect others. Jedi are allowed to kill to save.
And if taking one life means protecting billions?
Could Kenobi not have just force-pushed Anakin into the lava in ROTS?
I know he obviously had to live for the series to make sense;
but a lil push could've finished him off 😂
Was thinking this exact thing. Would be a great theory video on Obi-Wan turning to the dark side after force pushing Anakin into the lava
@Ryan Rifenberg an evil Obi-Wan 😨 someone make it happen haha!
Anakin would just go with it and flip to the other side of the lava or resist it
@@Cts_99 nah he was in no state to resist in anyway
The Grand Inquisitor explained in the first episode that the Jedi Code is the Jedi’s weakness, that really shows with Obi Wan. He’s too good and too “weak” to really kill Anakin, which is pretty sad.
But pushes his child to do it. Great.
He left him to die on Mustafar. Vader only lived because Palpatine sensed something wrong and showed up to save him.
@@BuscaLoEsencial Of which even Luke showed mercy.
Now... How that resonates with the ST.. That's another story.
@@Biosynthnut Of course Luke showed mercy, unlike Obi-Wan, who wanted Vader killed, by his own child. Twisted.
@@jigawatt1.215 because the prequels are poorly written and nonsensical
The difficulty for the writers being that he couldn’t be killed so how to get around it, my wife strongly disagrees but I honestly think anakin wanted to die, he new he was beaten yet he wanted to carry on with no chance of winning, he calls out for obi wan which I found very moving, I see it as he wanted to be put out of his misery, but alas it ended and Vader’s rage increased.
It wasn't a difficult thing to write out of though. Just off the top of my head, they could have cut to a scene back with the Inquisitors recieving direct instruction from Palpatine (who could well have sensed that Vader was in danger) to go and help. There's loads of scenarios where they could have had Obi Wan have his rematch and win while still allowing Vader to live. Having Obi Wan just walk away was a pretty dumb choice on the writer's part.
But, even if the writers couldn't think of another way out of that scenario, then the most sensible choice would be to not go there at all.
Part of that goes back to a line in Episode III, where Obi-Wan tells Yoda that Anakin is like his brother and he cannot kill him. If Vader had never had a quick reversion to Anakin, maybe he could have killed him, but he loves Anakin too deeply to simply take his life.
Also, Vader couldn’t die in this series. He’s got Rogue One, and 3 original trilogy movies to live through…
I've been actually thinking the same thing. In episode 3, vader literally says "you shouldve killed me when you had the chance" although you could give the benefit of the doubt as to what he meant. But in the last episode he asks obi-wan "have you come to destroy me obi-wan?" And he continues to call obi-wan after he's obviously beat. I think he really wants obi-wan to just end him already. Or i might be overthinking it lol
@@carlloren5499 not at all it’s interesting to see everyone’s take on it, I’m in agreement with you especially Witt the blue lightsaber light reflecting off his face I’m sure there was still a small part of him left, but yes at the end when he’s calling out for him literally on his knees it could only of ended one way, glad it wasn’t just me who saw it that way !
I feel like they could've done it a bit better, maybe had some qui Gon in there, but I also think this is a much needed flaw in an otherwise pretty perfect character. Obi wan never really turned dark, or did anything wrong. But the fact that when it comes to Anakin, he can never do the right thing, because of his feelings, I think is really good for his character.
Except that you're talking about Obi Wan, a real jedi master who can and has done the greater good even despite his feelings. Except that one time on Mustafar. Which he regrets. And now he does the same mistake again and lets him live, so that he may continue his murderous rampage?! That is NOT Obi Wan jedi master, and breaks his character.
@@michaelaredo3546 i agree with you, but that's what's so interesting about him. He always does the right thing. Satine gets killed in front of him, but he stays strong. But when it comes to Anakin, he just isn't able to. This bond these two men share is really incredible, and it's even reinforced by Anakin briefly breaking through Vader. These feelings are what separates Obi wan from the collected and calm Jedi master he usually is.
But if that was the case they should have done a better job to show that was the reason. The whole point of that ending moment is to show kenobi no longer feeling guilty for Anakins fall and also the idea that Obi wan now views Anakin as being fully killed by Vader. If that is the case then you're going to have to show more hints that he still can't bc he still sees anakin. Like having him lift up his saver to kill him and then hesitating looking into his eyes again and then putting it down and walking away would have made it more clear to the audience.
Friend of mine pointed out that there's some serious force lore in that moment where Obi unlocks his power. It's basically a statement that love and relationships are stronger than the fear that the sith teach and also stronger than the calm that the jedi counsel taught. I agree with him on this, but really feel like they could have presented it better.
The Sith are a terrorist organization made of emo broken ex-Jedi.
What this show was all about was obi wan overcoming his grief. His grief was that he thought he killed anakin and it was his fault for anakin to even fall to the dark side. He didn’t even know anakin survived. People always say he let him live the first time, well he didn’t even know he was alive to begin with. The second time was obi wan finally acknowledging that anakin wasn’t “ his failure” and that his friend is gone. Obi wan knows what Vader will eventually do. Bail says “ the empire is rising fast and he fears for the world leia will live in. U can even see obi wans face say it all. Obi wan doesn’t wanna be the one to kill anakin. U can clearly see it throughout the show. Reva even says “ do you really want anakin dead” this is right after he just got burned by anakin. It’s obvious to me that obi wan’s breakthrough was his mindset and that he is now free of believing he was the person that killed his brother. Instead it was Vader who killed his brother. And this is what this show was all about! Obi wan overcoming his ptsd for losing anakin and believing it was his fault for 10 years! Obi wan did what he had to do in the force and that’s find inner peace in himself!
Also he has a purpose and that purpose is what saved his life before being crushed by “ vaders words” and literally by the “rocks”. What saved obi wan is anakins kids and he remembered them before he was gonna die.
Hence why, qui gon officially returns!! He said “you just weren’t ready to see.” This is beautiful. He’s basically saying, you were clouded by the dark side and clouded by the wrong things.
I agree . Obi Wans inner peace was 2 things. 1. being able to overcome the mindset that he lost anakin to Vader and the emperor not himself
2. His other inner peace was his purpose in life and that’s anakins kids
I haven't seen the episode yet but did they ever show how Darth Vader made it off world?. Did someone come pick him up? I don't know if he could have survived long enough with his suit reached to get back to the shuttle and up to the Star destroyer. He must have been very embarrassed in front of the inquisitors too.
@@jonathanperry8331 it was offscreen I’m assuming he just flew the ship he came down with back to mustafar. Watch it bro it’s good
Having fought competitively I can absolutely confirm the number one factor that decides victory is a fighters mindset. You could train as hard as possible, have all the skill and experience but still lose if you are not focused; it could be something as simple as having an injury that's distracting you or argument with a loved one that you can't stop thinking about. This is why IMO it makes perfect sense Vader lost to Obi Wan, he was too conflicted, power had nothing to do with it.
He lost because Obi-Wan got a friendship power up and attacked his breathing box
Mabye its just me, but it seemed like Vader was pretty resolute in his hatred for Obi-wan. Until OBW beat him and his face was revealed, and he started to be conflicted after OBW started apologising for his mistakes.
@rileymorrisroe6743 Hatred isn't focus though. Hatred is an emotional response, it can make your blows powerful, but powerful blows achieve nothing if you don't have the focus of mind to make them land.
@@jimslater8685 Fair enough
Vader CLEARLY states that Anakin is dead.
Kenobi CLEARLY accepts and agrees stating “then my friend is truly dead” so then why not eliminate this GALACTIC THREAT AKA VADER? You’re gonna just walk away knowing this? After witnessing him kill those innocent ppl in order to lure out Kenobi?? Kenobi let a Jedi die earlier on but now supposedly has enough “pity” to let a galactic tyrant (because remember, Kenobi has already accepted Anakin is dead) live by just walking away. There should’ve been a final saber blow after the “goodbye Darth” 🤦🏾♂️
As much as I really do appreciate Theory trying to make sense of this, one simply cannot piece together things that aren’t there.
Yes Vader should’ve been rescued by storm troopers or something, and have obi wan crying as he is about to kill Vader
@@rhysnichols8608 exactly! like right as a tearful Kenobi raises his saber, Storm troopers start blasting, and Kenobi escapes. Thats it.
Personally I’m less angry and more so just extremely disappointed that current era Lucasfilm is so incompetent. The inconsistency of Kenobi sparing Vader is just 1 small moment in the grand scheme of questionable decisions this show made
Yes!
Ngl I had a HUGE problem with this. All they had to do was “interrupt” the fight with like a legion of stormtroopers overwhelming the area to make it make sense.
Makes even less sense when in the SAME episode Obi Wan says, “Either I die or he’s dies.” Then walks off after defeating him. They should have had Qui Gon tell him that Anakin is still the chosen one THEN it would make sense.
I mean, yea that was his plan, but he found he couldn’t bring himself to do it in the end. Call it weakness if you must, but he couldn’t kill his best friend / brother, even if he believed Anakin was truly gone. Really don’t think it’s that crazy of a moment
This
One of them DID die. Anakin did.
People’s minds can change. He saw Anakin’s morbid, rotten face and pitied him instantly. It makes perfect sense.
He meant anakin or him, he discovered during his duel with Vader that anakin is dead
Here's a thought: THEY NEVER SHOULD'VE FOUGHT TWICE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
If it ain't broke....
Exactly
Money's more important than quality
@@kuhanblock9380 Not when it comes to the new Andor show: Now that's worth a watch!!!
I believe Obi-Wan could never kill Anakin. Look at every fight. 1st one after he cuts his legs off and disarms him to where he’s no longer a threat he tells him he was his brother and he loved him. 2nd fight he cuts through Vaders mask and sees Anakin. He says his friend is dead but still let’s him live because he can’t kill the person he has trained and loved. The 3rd fight on the Death Star he knows it’s Darth Vader but only fights long enough to see Luke. Once he sees they can escape he gives up and let’s Vader kill him because he has never found it in himself to destroy his former padwan. And he’s says it himself before the other fights. “I will do what I must” not I will kill you. It’s a tragic story but a beautiful one.
But Vader tells him that he killed Anakin, and Obi-wan accepted that Anakin was gone (hence why he started calling him Darth), so not killing him because he's his brother makes less sense
Regardless, he still saw the man under the machine and everything changed.
Totally agree with how fast obi-wan got back to his full strength. Really was no progression, just kinda magically happened.
Wrong, it happened over 6 episodes. He's pre conditioned as a Jedi to use the force. You're not very bright my dude.
Disagree, he’s extremely strong with the force, he found his purpose which is Leia and Luke so it makes sense he regains a lot of his strength.
It‘s like riding a bicycle again. It was all in there, he just had a psychological detachment which went away when he was reminded of his purpose of saving Leia
@@floridajames04
Nah he pulled a Gohan on that one
Literally got thrown in a bacta tank after getting clapped by vader and everything is better instantly. Zero progression disney bot
The mental gymnastics it requires to make this make sense when in reality it’s just as simple as: Vader is alive in the OT. It’s written poorly, that’s it. Also obi wan not being able to traverse that little slope into the lava bed is a BAD excuse. It’s been established these guys can jump like ten feet into the air.
Something I liked about it, was that it corrected something I used to hear complaints about in Episode III. After his defeat on Mustafar, Vader didn’t have the head injury. When his helmet was slashed in this battle, the damage to the helmet goes over the exact spot where his head injury was, so possibly this is where the head injury comes from.
It's also easy to imagine he got shot or blown up at any other point, or his body is just rotting away, or he had a surgery, or the Dark Side is eating him
Not every little detail needs to be explained on screen
Bro lol that head wound was from mustafar. Google an image of him from that scene on Mustafar he definitely has the gash on his head. That wound was not fresh, it would’ve been glowing red.
yes it is in revenge of the sith zatch it again
Did you even watch that scene in Episode 3? That head scar is 100% there. How does this completely wrong comment have so many likes.
6:48 I actually think part of Obi Wans flashes to Leia and Luke are connected with his love for Anakin as well. In the last episode he describe Leia having qualities of Anakin and the same would go for Luke. So trying to defend the kids is also preserving the Anakin he knew and loved. From a certain point of view
Ahhh yes a certain point of view.
Because Vader has plot armor as we see him alive in the future. There’s my analysis
I think the flashbacks worked because it was one of the first times on screen we got to see Obi wan give into attachments. And it allowed him to tap into the force and become the strongest we have seen him on screen too. Curious to hear your thoughts on that scene :)
I think obi-wan understands that the jedi clearly werent right about everything, like we see in episode two he's remorseful of a family he can barely remember, maybe realising that attachment can give you comparable power and the only real threat is what you choose to do with it not allowing and idea to control you.
There are just some people you can’t make happy and will complain about everything 🤷🏼♂️
Exactly
it doesn't make sense to just let him go
Or maybe people are allowed to have opinions. If you see so many people that dislike the show it’s probably not as good as you think.
So true
It’s a real reason to be upset about….I love how some fans just ignore criticism by calling it “nitpicking” or “you can’t make them happy”
Killing Vader would have made things even worse...Vader was just a pawn for the emperor...the real threat is sidious..he would replace Vader and would get more furious at these proto rebel alliance...and he would have seen them for what they are actually capable of and destroyed them in the early stage.
I was upset too but then I realized that if he did kill him, we wouldn't have all those awesome scene from IV, V, VI movies. Plus Obi Wan said that he would kill Anakin and not Vader, that's why he calls him Vader at the end, since Anakin is dead.
Yeah plus it was Luke’s job to turn vader back to the light not obi wan
@@davidordaz5251 Exactly.
Yep, it was needed. It made sense he let him live.
Yeah well guess what none of that shit matters anymore cause it was all for nothing.
@@Alexs.2599 yeah but that scene was hard to watch but even though obi wan failed anakin little did he know years later luke skywalker anakin flesh and blood would come to redeem him from his darkness he must have been proud
Vader staying alive just breaks continuity completely!!! How could they do this!!???!??
Lol sarcasm I love it
They could’ve done it in a better way tho,
@@rhysnichols8608 facts they could have had Vader struggling to fight obiwan after his lil monologue like him crawling all crippled
@@ikevizual6969
They should have had Vader rescued by storm troopers or inquisitors as obi wan is crying trying to kill him
@@rhysnichols8608 nah dude remember he told the grand inquisitor that he’ll face him alone, granted the most likely picked Vader up after the fight
Bro I LOVE how you mention DBZ from
Time to time in your videos! That was our generation bro. 90s kids was all about Star Wars and anime hands down 💪🏼🔥
Obi-Wan was ready to kill Vader, not Anakin. That first blow to Vaders helmet could have killed him if the blade was just abit closer
You hit the nail in the head.
lol he just said 'Then my friend is truly dead'.
@@shadytano he was inches from killing vader before his mask got cut open. After seeing anakins face he couldn’t kill him anymore what made him change his mind? Or was he just 100% sure that strike would not kill vader from the start?
@@shadytano this. It’s like people don’t watch the episode at all.
Yes, so let's make his child kill him instead
I really like this series. but everytime I try to defend it online I get called a consumer, why can't people let others enjoy stuff?
thank you theory for the video. you are one of the good ones and your community is very welcoming
Stuff like that is why I love Star Wars but loathe Star Wars fans. Seems like the people who enjoy the newer content get alienated and I feel like it defeats the purpose of Star Wars as being a medium that has something for everyone and just makes the hater’s come off looking like judgmental neckbeards who try to gate-keep the franchise and ostracize anyone who likes the newer stuff. Which truly makes me sad because I liked the prequels as a kid and I hated the OT fans who would dump on people who enjoyed them and I’m noticing the same pattern again.
the same reason why OG Star Wars fans, those of us who werent born yesterday, cant be allowed to enjoy anything anymore.
thank your overlords for "The Message."
Ask a Tolkein fan, a true Tolkein fan, why we dont like Rings of Power, same with Star Wars.
they should have gave it a different name bc this isnt Star Wars.
This series breaks even more of the Star Wars universe.
some people dont understand not everyone shares the different opinion, i like the show too even if i think it couldve been better. but i dont think it breaks any part of canon either
I wouldn’t call you a consumer. I’d call you a casual
As far as I am concerned you can enjoy the parts like you like and not enjoy the parts you don't enjoy. Me personally, I love all of the current star wars shows I just don't like the sequel trilogy
I just watched a rescored version of that final fight, and I quite like the hybrid Vader voice between Hayden and James. I would gladly have that as a voice mod. Also, Vader's lines describing what happened to his Anakin half when Obi-Wan apologises (along with said apology) has to be my favourite part, narrowly followed by the choreography, Hayden really made the absolute most of Vader's limitations. Truly better in every way to the Episode 4 duel.
I don't know; the Episode 4 duel as the twinkle in Alec Guinness's eyes going for it.
Thanks for all of your coverage on this show Theory! Really appreciated your insight!
What else could they do? Were you expecting him to die before he shows up in a new hope? Yeah he made a mistake but that’s not who obi wan is. I would be more upset if he slaughtered him because it wouldn’t be right for his character
Exactly!
Thats a dumb excuse. The writers backed themselves into a corner, which could have easily been avoided. There was no reason for Obi-Wan not to kill Vader, as he was gonna kill more people and it was his responsibility if anything.
@@speedycheese790 exactly.
I agree. That ideology let’s the writers off the hook. Come up with a creative reason he lets vador live. But after that series I guess that was to much to ask for
@@speedycheese790 that’s the most valid explanation there is
Finally! To be honest, was expecting this reaction from you a lot earlier but still a relief.
Vader losing to Obi-Wan after 10 years simply does not make any sense at all. 5 years would even also make no sense but much better than 10.
Also Obi-Wan gaining unlimited force powers in 2-3 days is just way too funny. I love the idea of attachment being core for light-side powers, but one simply does not freaking get it like this. And it takes a lot more than this to defeat Vader. Here is why:
1) As much as Obi-Wan has these light-side abilities, Vader has the dark side ones and unlimited anger / hatred
2) Obi-Wan's force potential is way lower than Vader despite him having lost his limbs
3) Vader being conflicted here makes absolutely no sense. A conflicted man simply cannot put his master into fire to just burn him alive 2-3 days ago. What the hell could have been changed in due course?? And 10 freaking years after ROTS?
4) Will take this one step further: Obi-Wan cannot even simply defeat a heavily conflicted Vader. The conflict level of Vader was probably much much more in ROTS and he had limited dark side abilities, yet Obi-Wan only managed to defeat him due to Vader's own mistake. Vader felt more powerful throughout the duel.
One could argue that Vader lost his limbs and now less powerful than ROTS Anakin - absolutely not. Vader was stronger than Anakin, not in terms of full potential but current power level.
Maybe the writers' original idea wasgood, but the first 4 and last 2 episodes have so much disconnection that the end was very bothering. And - actually Obi-Wan and Vader meeting twice in the series was also nonsense. It should have been only once, where we see Vader overpowering Obi-Wan like hell and on the verge of defeat, Obi-Wan should have unlocked these new powers. Then it should have turned into a stalemate or sth., enabling Obi-Wan escape.
The reason I am saying this is that the most logical theory for Obi-Wan not killing Vader here is what SWT explained here - But even this does not make sense. Obi-Wan knows that from this point on, Vader continued spreading terror across the galaxy. If Obi-Wan knew that he could defeat Vader, he would freaking come back to fight once again and end it this time in the 9 year period until ANH.
The writers never understood Star Wars, they just wanted to do something that was enjoyable and made some sense, but completely ignored the full connection between events. I enjoyed watching this but have to consider the series as a whole as non-canon.
I’m not mad about that at all. It would’ve been out of context for kenobi to end Vader then and there.
Yeah it was a very Jedi like thing to do and also it shows how Obi Wan has grown as a Jedi and now rather let the force and future play out itself rather than intervene with it
Plus it would have totally made the OT null and void.
@@hannahskeldon7944 Also if Vader had destroyed Obi Wan again i would be extremely dissapointed and it would be very unsatisfying. Now we got to see both Vader and Obi Wan using force powers never seen before and be very powerful on screen. Vader lost because he seems to get conflicted and weakened whenever Obi Wan is involved
It’s stupid that we now have this scene be a thing.
Than I guess him killing maul and grievous was out of context. Also the unarmed droids too or the clones in the revenge sith him and Yoda killed
I think Obi Wan still had a shred of hope that Anakin could be saved one day, but not by him. That's why he let him live. He put that hope into Luke. The son saving the father in the end.
Yet he tells Luke he needs to kill Vader lol
@Alexandro He literally asked Luke, his own child, to KILL him. Not playing with words, or killing Vader to save Anakin...he wanted Luke to finish him, murder his father.
@@lore7070 His correct words were "You Must Face Vader Again!"...
Obi didn't tell Luke to kill Vader, that's not the Jedi way
@@KeepPunchin76 when luke says "I will not kill my own father" obi wan says "then we have already lost"
@@Awesomeness4627 His Point was to face Him,only after he fought his father and defeated VADER, without killing him,then Luke would be a Jedi knight
I think it was also foreshadow to the flashback they had in episode 5. When Kenobi and Anakin were dueling. Kenobi tells Anakin “Your too aggressive Anakin. The duty of jedi is to protect life, not take it” so he spared his life once again.
You really gotta suspend your disbelief to believe Obi-Wan wouldn’t have been ready to kill Vader/Anakin, he is one of the most insightful Jedi and definitely knows the mass murder Vader/Anakin is capable of.
All I can think about is how Obi-Wan sparing Vader/Anakin for the second time eventually leads to the destruction of alderan.
Exactly
No your wrong in ur assessment that he let anakin live on Mustafar. He thought he killed anakin, hence why he has ptsd for 10 years. He didn’t even know anakin lived. So how could u let someone live when he didn’t even know he was alive to begin with. Man was burning up last time he saw him
It also leads to the death of Palpatine and the fall of the Empire. Would that happen if Obi-Wan killed Anakin?
Vader has nothing to do with the destruction of Alderaan
@@oXRaptorzXo Vader captures Leia and it is specifically her presence that that leads to Alderaan's destruction. We can't sat she would have been caught if Vader wasn't there.
I think Obi-Wan was gonna kill Anakin then and there. Though it was until he saw his old friend and brother's face along with hearing his voice that he sort of couldn't do it anymore. Anakin knew he was beaten so he started to play the mental warfare upon seeing Obi-Wan eyes tearing and you see Vader smirking a few times during this altercation. Though as you said, at the end of him walking away from him it was the fact that he knows that Vader is no longer a threat to him as he's beaten him twice now as Anakin and as Vader.
@ 5:50 - I'm glad you said it. I've complained to some Star Wars fans about how 2 days ago Vader wiped the floor with Obi Wan with ease and then apparently couldn't stop him. Now, Vader could have easily won if he just kept dropping boulders on him and pushing them down with the force. Maybe that was some Anakin creeping in since he stopped pinning him down. I guess it wasn't unreasonable to assume Obi Wan was dead at that point. They both kind of didn't finish the job when they had an opportunity to do so. Thanks for pointing out a lot of problems with the fight, like when Vader just stood there when Obi Wan wailed on his computer chest thingy.
I’m pretty sure Obi Wan’s “God Mode” was a one-time thing. Sort of a “world of cardboard” scenario. Obi Wan has been known to always, ALWAYS, keep his emotions in check. And Vader reminded him why Anakin was always so powerful. And thus Obi Wan let go of his ironclad control over his emotions.
and went ham on Vader, just hurling boulders at Vader not giving him a chance to recover.
I definitely got darkside feels like in Obi’s second wind
As a jedi knight/master yes, but watch him as a padawan in TPM he goes full beast mode emotional fighting Darth Maul.
@@lanceheaps581 I wouldn’t go that far. Losing your Master is indeed emotional, but Obi Wan had been trained from a very young age to keep himself in check. He didn’t go Beast Mode on Maul, he doubled down on his training and staying defensive, looking for that exact moment to strike, which he did when he broke Maul’s saber in half, and again when he focused his efforts on the force to jump past Maul and slice him in half… all in under a second.
Movie magic makes it hard to understand this, but Force Users and move faster than we can comprehend. Sidious does the same when he takes down three Masters in the span of a second. We see Sidious take up to five seconds, but that’s because we saw it slow motion.
So no, Obi Wan didn’t go Beast Mode. He doubled down on his training, focused on surviving, and finding that opening.
Heroes need to learn that allowing the villain to live isn’t always the smart move
or even a morally right move
Then the original trilogy would not make sense
@@typerez8132 Exactly! Vader was already evil and then went on to slaughter whole planets. If kenobi (the hero) wanted to the right thing he would have killed vader right there.
Yes and you'd think he would have learned from last time , i mean he literally saw Vader randomly kill some citizens while searching for him
Y’all are absolutely right
I used to watch this channel 2 years ago and I this is the first vid I’ve watched since then and I already know I’m about binge watch this channel keep up the good work
we didnt get to see grogu heal reva...maybe we will in mando 3
Theory, throughout Vader/Anakin's story he is conflicted between light and dark whenever he confronted by those Anakin knew and loved. Ten years time does not matter with him. He is beaten twice by Obi Wan. He is technically beaten by Ahsoka and he is defeated by Luke. All three brought out Anakin from within. And that compromised his power as Vader. In-between those events Vader is nearly unstoppable.
I’m pretty sure Ahsoka lost she got his helmet good but if I remember right she only didn’t die because of the weird rift Ezra pulled her through but I agree Vader is weak against anyone that was very close to Anakin
@@logwundawg1970 She was about to sacrifice herself in order to end Vader by knocking out the floor. Vader was about to cut her down as she did this, but it was too late. That's when Ezra yanked her out as you say. She could have continued that fight and likely would have defeated Vader as he was mechanically compromised at that point much like he was against Obi Wan part deux.
The whole aspect of the blue light and the red lights interacting on Vader’s face representing his inner conflict is interesting to me. Obi-Wan ends up leaving him, and then Vader is left in only the red light of a Sith saber. In their first duel, Obi-Wan told him “you were mens to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness!” And yet here Obi-Wan, perhaps the only one who could have brought balance to Anakin, left him in darkness.
I feel there are two reasons why Obi-Wan didn’t kill Vader. Firstly, He had already defeated Vader, and to kill a beaten enemy is against the Jedi Code. Second, I don’t think Obi-Wan could ever get passed the man Anakin used to be and just couldn’t kill him despite having Vader at his mercy.
Anakin killed Dooku. Mace tried to kill Palpatine.
Obi-Wan walked away.
@@craighicksartwork Anakin killed Dooku which helped Sidious greatly with turning Anakin, and Mace Windu has always been toying with the dark side and at that moment he was not able to control himself as he usually does. If he had killed Palpatine it would have been an execution, which is not the Jedi way as Anakin states. It would put Mace Windu on a path to the dark side for sure. Obi-Wan followed the Jedi way by not killing Vader, if that was the right call is of course debatable. It would change everything, perhaps not for the best even though we might think it would.
plus had Obi wan killed Vader, it would have broke Star wars Cannon (I think). and it would have given fans a reason to be angry with Disney.
@@gamepad3173 Of course it would break cannon, so it would never happen. But it does of course become a point of discussion as to why he would not do it when he had the change. Since the show itself does not tell you why you, we just have to find a reasonable way to make sense of the writing.
Exactly Nolan, you are perfectly right
Well if Obi-Wan had killed Anakin/ Vader here then we wouldn't have had the events of New Hope. Then Vader would have already been dead for over decade. It makes complete sense for the timeline canon for Obi Wan to let him live. Otherwise no original trilogy.
Exactly why don't these people understand that!? They had to keep Vader alive!
Exactly!!!
Than have obi wan defeat Vader in a way he thinks he's dead. It's not that hard
@@rayvonvelez3129 I don't know, it's just the way they wrote it. Obi Wan accepts Anakin is gone but he can't quite kill Vader because he still holds out hope that Anakin can return at some point to throw off a s kill once and for all his Dark force persona of Darth Vader. But yeah maybe they could have gone the route you said just as easily.
@@Alexs.2599 Also they could've had the star destroyer come down and help Vader in some way. Making obi wan retreat. Also what happened to the star destroyer? Why didn't it stop obi wan from leaving after Vader lost.
On what you said about how 10 years would be about for Anakin to be a bit more composed,
I think that’s a good point, but what I saw from it was that Vader was composed like that for the whole series up until his moment of defeat with his mask torn open. Once Anakin’s face was forced into view by Obi-Wan, I saw the conflict force its way out.
As I’m writing this, I’m realizing what this signifies for Vader’s conclusion in RotJ. As Vader is set into his dark side path up until a Jedi he cares about brings out the good in him, it “foreshadows” Luke being able to fully bring him back to the light. Luke believed in the good in Bader, which is why he was able to do what he did.
Vader was scared, obi wan was scared. Obi wan finally gave up on Anakin and it's why in the originals he claims Darth Vader killed Anakin, as well as why he was so adamant on luke having to stop and kill him. I think it was fine and people really wanted the show to break continuity but it tried not to
So he can't finish the job and tricks his own child to kill him. Nice move
@@BuscaLoEsencial ????? Obi wan isn't lukes dad, and luke was never corrupted by Vader. Vader only discovered luke was his son after obi wan was already dead lol
@@Sphilxx hes saying that Obi Wan couldn't kill Vader so he tricks Anakin/Vader's own son to kill Vader
@@lore7070 mkay it was just confusing that they called luke obi wan's own child
@Sphilxx “people really wanted the show to break continuity,” is a strawman: they already broke continuity when Reva as a youngling survives her lightsaber stab.
What we WANTED was competent writing to justify this series’ existence other than a few meme lines. Instead what we got is two main characters outright refusing to capture/kill each other solely because the plot demands they live.
It was great seeing Hayden come back and get some redemption for the prequels, but having Obi Wan fight and spare Vader was a horrible idea. I get that Kenobi pitied Vader, but now the lore is that he spared Vader who went on to kill countless people. And the blood of all those victims are now in part on Kenobi’s hands.
Exactly they should have made Vader get away
@@freekill1018 they should have had Vader lose the lightsaber due and then win using the force, and Obi Wan having to escape. Only thing that makes sense.
I think that attachment leading to the dark-side was a strong theme in the series.
Obi-Wan found new strength in the force by channeling his feelings of attachment for the children, just how anger or fear gives a sith focus. He realized that if he were to kill Darth Vader he would just succumb to a dark-sided victory. Like a trained jedi though, he managed to put it all away and let it flow back into the force. Just like a distraction during meditation, you acknowledge it, but you don't let it expand its power.
First I love that you used a Dragon Ball reference and I can’t believe people are actually upset over this…the story would change immensely if he killed Vader and episodes 4-9 wouldn’t happen as it did originally
Their mostly mad they didn't give a better reason he didn't kill him story wise and I agree. If he no longer saw him as anakin he should of sliced him right their obi wan has killed sith before
Well I mean ofc he can't kill Vader but the writers really couldn't come up with a better reason why he didn't or why he needs to leave.
it makes sense but for “the fight of the century “ it surely didn’t feel like it
it only makes sense bc It has to due to the events of a new hope
Plot armor aka plot hole
@@captaindc3889 what plot hole you muppet? There were no plot holes in the series.
I think it was because of the awful choreography of Disney.
Obi-Wan blames himself for the state of Anakin, killing him for his own misstakes would be difficult! ("It's not the Jedi way" - Anakin ep. 3) Also after this defeat, I belive there would be less conflict within Vader.
Vader got owerwhelmed in this episode, beliveing that he has come so much further then their fight on Mustafar. Then when Obi-Wan puts up a fight, Vader gets more conflicted. Why Obi-Wan got his strength back is because he realises what he is fighting for.. To do Anakin right, by protecting his children.
Great video as always Theory!
I feel like they should have made it so that Obi-Wan would have said, "Goodbye, Darth" and then try to slash him, but the Grand Inquisitor would show up with some fighters and troop carriers above and would start shooting Obi-Wan. Then Obi-Wan flees, and Darth Vader has to live in his misery and defeat, and yet not relish in the release of death. He would also hate being saved by the Grand Inquisitor.
Of course he had to let him live. He still has a whole trilogy to be in 😂
To what you were saying that you felt Vader should have been less conflicted and more powerful. I agree but I think what should also be considered is that Vader seeing Obi-Wan would have brought back that conflicting. Love your videos. Keep them up!
I've been pretty critical of the show. My guess is that Vader simply couldn't keep his head cool against Kenobi. I'm fine with Obi-Wan winning this fight just on the back of the visions he has of the children. Much like in Return of the Jedi when Vader threatens to go after Leia, Obi-Wan was fighting for the children just like Luke would do a 13 years later. I do think the fight should have been a bit more even, with it looking like the fight could really go either way. Obi-Wan choosing not to finish off Vader to me gives him much more character. Even after all Vader has done, all he's going to do in the future, Obi-Wan still can't bring himself to finish Vader off for good.
It should even be Vader having the edge but Obi-Wan's new attachments being able to hold his defense and then somehow help him escape.
Otherwise, he would have fought Vader later on. After seeing so much terror he is spreading, a Jedi cannot simply wait. He perfectly knows that only Luke can defeat Vader, not himself.
But Obi wan tells Luke he must kill Vader in Rotj or the Emperor has won. This makes nooo sense.
I saw it like Obi-Wan witnessed the "final death" of Anakin and the complete take over of Vader. It was kind of like backing a wild animal in a corner, listen to how Vader screamed, and Obi-wan knew if he re-engaged to finish him off then he risks being killed in the process. Vader was defeated and the people he was protecting would be safe. So Obi-wan took the chance to walk away without further risk in order to protect the children. Someone would still have to fight the emperor, and no one would train Luke if Obi-wan died trying to finish off Vader.
Ben’s transformation in the rocks was about Obi Wan truly letting go of the past which was blocking him and weighing him down
Once his thoughts shifted to the hope of the future he was open to receiving again and let the light in
Theory, I must say that without you, the fandom wouldn’t be as big as it is. You add such genuine love to the fandom and really encourage everyone to dig deeper into Star Wars. Thank you Theory, and keep it up!
@Spacetrooper Maybe
Wow. That's really disappointing.😟
@Spacetrooper You are 100,000% correct! Such wisdom.
Imho we could analyze the 2 different moments:
- He left him on Mustafar because He thought Anakin was dead
- In Kenobi show he left him for the reason you explained, but also because Ben reach his "Redemption" and he understood Anakin Is totally Lost.
I feels when Obi said "I'm Sorry" and "Goodbye Darth". I hope this finale will be iconic in a similar way like Ep 5.
There was a moment when they we’re fighting and they faced each other Vader was holding his saber with both hands, he then clearly flexes his grip/hand and fingers. Just thought it was cool and showed he was either nervous or anxious in that moment.
It’s kinda the same route Tolkien took with Sméagol. Bilbo could have killed him, after all he tried to kill bilbo and was mad and violent. But bilbo showed pity for him. He couldn’t do it. “Some times true courage is knowing when to spare a life not take one”. Also in the flashbacks obviously there was more towards Leah and not Luke because at that point he hadn’t said so much as hello there to Luke. Owen never let him see him so Leah was the first time he got to understand how much like there parents they where.
I was going to comment essentially the same thought concerning the Tolkien parallel . "Pity!? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand! ...Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." And maybe even to Obi Wan's surprise it was a good thing that he chose not to end Vader in both opportunities - after all how different would have Luke's encounter been with Palpatine?
Just that it doesn't make sense, Gollum is little to no threat to anyone while Vader is the mass murderer leader of a oppressive and corrupt Empire with the capability to destroy civilizations. This is just bad writing.
Sure this isn't the biggest issue ever, but in Return of the Jedi when Luke says "I can't kill my own father", Obi Wan responds with a disappointed look and says "then the Emperor has already won."
With this outcome it really makes Obi Wan look like a hypocrite because he is asking Luke to do something he was unable to do himself when presented the opportunity.
Especially when he was presented the opportunity twice.
Exactly. And Luke is his own blood and almost a kid. I can't understand where he gets the morals to ask him to do that
@@BuscaLoEsencial Because he thought Luke wouldn't feel any emotion towards Vader.
However, luke is loyal to his family even to his unch owen and aunt beru.
@@WildWeavile You mean in ROTJ, when he confirms he is his father, tells Obi-Wan he can't kill him and Obi-Wan still pushes Luke to kill him?
Obi-Wan does come off to be a bit of a dick sometimes throughout the movies and shows.
Mr. Miyagi : Because, Daniel-san, for person with no forgiveness in heart, living even worse punishment than death.
I think obi wan didn't kill him on purpose. He knew that killing vader would be counter intuitive. Mace was willing to sacrifice all his ideals because he feared sidious which is why the jedi order fell. If obi wan did the same thing and struck vader while he was down he would be doing exactly what caused the purge in the first place. Now the only thing that mattered was luke and leia. He wanted vader to know that he does not matter to him, Anakin mattered and he no longer exists so..... He just walked away.
6:06 I know, I hate to bring up the sequels but: Luke was disconnected from the force for more than 10 years right? and then he out of nowhere used force projection which is no easy feat. I dont remember anyone complaining about that. Granted he died after doing it.... But I think is not about training again, is about reconnecting with the force, which is not a matter of time I think... idk maybe Im wrong but that is my take, this aint dragon ball z hahaha
people didnt complain about that because there was far worse things in that movie
@@mouse7965 fair point lol
I think obi wan was at peace when he realized Anakin was already
Knowing Obi-Wan’s character, it makes sense he let him live. He has a mature understanding of his personality and the interactions his actions have with the force’s pull on him, and vice versa. He knows he can finally let go and grow by letting him live, with the closure from their second confrontation.
You think it makes sense for Obi Wan's character to let him live here but then encourage his son to kill him instead in 10 years? Makes no sense.