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Jerry Garcia Style Rig Comparison - SMS JG Classic/MC50 vs. Milkman The Amp
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- Опубліковано 29 кві 2020
- Jerry Rig Shootout - Comparing my main Jerry Garcia style amp (SMS JG Preamp-McIntosh MC50) vs. Milkman's "The Amp" - Both through JBL K-120 Vintage speakers.
Once the band kicks in there’s be zero perceived difference. Everyone has a different ideal for this tone…and it wasn’t the same every night/year. Hard to hit a moving target.
That said, either would completely serve you well on a GD/JG gig. Thanks for the demo/comparison.
Holy Moly! I can't believe someone made a video comparing these two as I've been trying to settle on a choice. You're great brother!
See you down the road!
Your sound is pretty much spot on.....your playing is on point too man. Nicely done.
Nice video. I have The Amp 100 hooked up to multiple JBL-ish speakers and love the tones. Gets that growl, sparkle, and all that. For the size/weight (ignoring price) it can't be beat!
Very cool and nice sounds. In all the years I've been listening the Jerry's music, I've always been a fan of the 1972 -75 era when he was playing one of his Stratocasters through the Fender Twin with very few effects. Pure, clean and simple.
Really appreciate this vid. I just got “the amp” by milkman. Paired with a weber 12” signature fb in an open backed cab it sounds amazing. The Weber’s are about $93. Wonderful and way way way cheaper and lighter. I play a mexi strat w David Gilmour emg setup. Very jerryish and at a fraction of the price.
they both sound great, if you play with feeling
the audience will feel it no matter which amp
the Garcia rig has a bit more overtones but it
comes down to taste, you could probably even dial them both a bit closer to each other
Jerry had so many tones and he made them all sing
I think using the milk man with an EQ pedal to cut a little bass and add some upper mids would be even closer.. or possible the John Kadlecik method of using a boost pedal to hit that first preamp tube to get more overtones.
@@grosebud4554I’m using a Milkman The Amp 100, which has a FET boost in between the two tube stages, and it does exactly that.
Thanks so much for doing stuff like this! UA-cam is so great.
You're so great!
nice! both rigs sound really good
I really like the punch in the amp, and the overall tone of the MC50. Very hard pick.
Hi Mike,
Both sound right…pretty liberating I’d imagine. Now you can concentrate on the playing.
Great video (and great playing)! I was thinking about getting a Milkman and your vid was very helpful. Thanks again from a California Deadhead!
Awesome. I'm also a California Deadhead but from NY originally. My Dead band plays in the Bay area if you're nearby. We're based in Marin.
@@mikekennedy5785 That's great! I'm in Sacramento. Let me know when you are playing - I'd love to see your band 😀
@@mikesmusicden Were playing tomorrow night halfway to you in Winters at Green River Brewing & Taproom! www.bluelightcheaphotel.com
fb.me/e/1vBlY000G
Nice job, thanks for a grate video! There is nothing quite like the real thing but the Milkman rig does a very good job!
Both sound great and they both sparkle
thanks to your demos I set myself up with basically the setup you have on the right. and if you're poor like me it is a great jerry set up for about $1200, i built a hard truckers style cab to put the jbl120 in to. its nice and jangly. i've had a few people be skeptical when i bust out my little amp but the sound speaks for itself
That makes me very happy Ricky !!! You got the JBL, which is really key. Keep on rockin' brother !
And I'm thrilled to see the support for Tim at Milkman. He's an awesome dude and a great player.
@@mikekennedy5785 I think the Milkman is a super nice little hybrid package! I was playing it through a Celestion, and when I finally got the JBL120 I felt like i found the last piece to a jigsaw puzzle, I honestly couldn't believe my ears. I really appreciate the demos, and I am thoroughly impressed with your solos! thank you for the knowledge brother!
Hey Mike, thanks for posting. I’m just wondering how the milkman holds up volume wise. Does it stay clean enough to play at full band volumes? I have the SMS/MC50 rig also and a Dual showman Reverb that both have more than enough power. but they’re both cumbersome. I guess my question is, can the milkman be used on its own in a band setting? I’ve used my Deluxe Reverb (which I also love) in a band environment and found at times I’ve had to turn it up to the point of too much break up to cut through the mix. I’d never get rid of the SMS/Mac, but it sure would be nice to have a portable board mounted alternative at times.
Hi Kevin - It handles a band situation easily. It has a good amount of clean headroom, as it was basically made in the same vein as Mikman's steel guitar amps. It does 100 watts at 4 ohms (for when I use my 2x12... 8 each >4 ohm). 50 watts at 8 ohms. They also now have a newer model with 100 watts at 8 ohm, etc.
Much more clean headroom than a Deluxe Reverb.
came back to delete a dickhead comment i made about lessons/gear...sorry, you sound great man. Im just jealous you have such nice stuff. keep doing what you love brother
I'm thoroughly impressed by the milkman. And a whole lot more portable, inexpensive and also a bit warmer sounding as well. I think I might even prefer it over the OG JG rig.
I have to admit that it's a brilliant sound but I don't see the need in going any further than plugging into a vintage fender twin turned up to the sweet-spot myself. After the twin he used as a preamp, the 300 watt McIntosh 230 was for the extra stage volume he wanted and unless you plan on playing the Oakland Coliseum, it's just not necessary.
All of his tone came from the twin and his guitars.
I spent around 2500 on a strat I modified with stainless frets, set of Little 59s, a treble bleed and a stratoblaster - plugged that into a boss equalizer and a digital delay thru a vintage twin and I had Jerry's foundational tone including the compression and his powerful edgy, slightly overdriven sound coupled with the beautiful sound of the wood of the strat I used.
It's so gorgeous, the only reason i would even spend money on a replica wolf or tiger would be... the looks. I wouldn't even consider the effect loop wiring - It's just not necessary, especially when you consider the expense. It would be like spending 15 to 20k on a set of low profile windshield wipers because the salesman said I could get an extra 3 miles per gallon out of my truck.
A good vintage twin is the same price as the SMS/Mac setup. And a lot harder to haul around. And the Milkman is like carrying 2 pedals, plus choice of speaker cabinet. Yes, any fender twin with JBLs gets extremely close. The JBLs are a huge portion of the tone. Twin or twin clone pre-amp and then guitar w/buffer, in that order.
The new milkman 100 has a boost that gets even closer adding a little more hair to the tone.
Yes. I have several different boosts already in front of it, but that would be handy.
Love the vid and have a gear question. Where can you buy the aluminum speaker clamps? Building my own cabinet and can't find the for the life of me.
Here you go
www.ebay.com/itm/185427128395?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=rS0baBFAQWm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=By3-24hGT_K&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Love my Milkman!
Sound great and I love the setup. Great playing!!! I'm actually in the process of building a 2x12 cabinet and want this exact look. Already got all the materials, now it's just matter of dialing in the dimensions. Was wondering if you'd be able to share the dimensions of that cabinet?
Thanks. There are a number of plans for this style 2x12 cabinet available on various message boards (and Facebook) shared by Grateful Dead musicians and gear enthusiasts. I didn't build it and do not have anything handy, but you'll be all set searching around the internet, including FB and rukind.com
Thanks for posting, Mike. The tone in both sound great to me! Qusetions for you: I had a combo amp built using a SMS, a JBL K120., and an Electro-Harmonix pedal, power amp. The tone is in the ballpark but has always been missing something. I was considering buying a McIntosh, but have been reluctant due to the weight. Do you think that I could use the Milkman as the power amp? On Milkman's sight, they sell a Hi-Fi 5W Mini Amplifier Head. Do you think that would work better? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Colin - Great question. I think the Milkman already has too much fender twin blackface-type tone built into it and you would already be getting that from the SMS. I tried a similar approach with a Quilter Micro (pedal-sized amp) and my SMS and it sounded terrible.
I think you really need a better clean, transparent power solution like one of the Quilter Tone Block or one of the other models. To be honest, I have not tried them, but I have heard really good things in using them, especially with an SMS. I may consider getting one as a back-up to my MC50 at some point. I would start by asking around about which of the Quilters the Jerry folks use with an SMS. My guess is you will be really happy and "only" have to spend another 400 or so (maybe less used) to have a great rig. There are some other alternatives like Carvin rack amps, but I think they cost more and are harder to find. Best of luck on your Jerrytone adventure !
@@mikekennedy5785Gotcha. Thank you, Mike.
@@mikekennedy5785 Hi Mike, I reached out to Tim at Milkman Amps to get his take on things. He ended up building me a custom power amp pedal for $300.00. It is light weight and sounds awesome!
Dang. It’s a tough call. The sms/mc50 has a little more punch but the milkman has a little more spaciousness at times. Another good comparison would be to play them both through the same speaker cab. How does the milkman sound through 2x12?
Zach- I have used it with the 2x12 and it is the same tone and fantastic. Either way, the milkman sounds really good when turned up louder in either cab. You get more high end to work with, similar to the sms/Mac. Makes sense because Jerry played really loud and blew out these 100 watt, and even the 300 watt E-120s quite often according to those who were there. It's a great option for a lower price, more portable, solid Blackface tone, though it does lack a bit of the Jerry mojo that is amazingly captured in the SMS.
Great video
I'ma just gonna go with the Milkman. Its right there. Less less mid rangy. Toss a Thick Air before it and one could do all ya need for Jerry. the weight difference and ease compared to the Mac rig also has supreme benefit.
that mc 50 sounds better then the milkman, in terms of tone that setup on the left sounds exactly like jerry, but the milkman gets close, but not exactly, makes me wanna use the newer mc75 and see what happens.
That milkman sounds amazing! Thanks for doing this. So, are you running it directly into that speaker with no power amp? Just the 50W pushing the speaker? If so, that time is even more impressive. I’d love to see a pick of the settings you dialed in on the Milkman.
The Milkman is a power amp and pre-amp. Nothing else needed. Settings are same as in a Fender amp for Jerry. Maxxed treble, little to zero bass. High on Master volume as needed, and lower end of gain for cleanest tones.
@@mikekennedy5785 thanks brother. I was planning on getting a sms but after hearing this… those overtones are superior. Are you running an E120? I’ve heard great things about the K120
@@jasonmathis7662 I use all K-120s. I think they are the best fit for wattage for us mortals.
@@mikekennedy5785 right on. I was leaning that way. Do you have a recommendation for a cabinet maker? And thanks for all the sage advice
Sweet licks
Nice video. What kind of stand do you use to prop up The Amp on an angle? I own The Amp and have been looking for one! Can you please point me in the right direction?
I don't use a stand. I must have just propped it up on something just for that video.
@@mikekennedy5785 ah got it
Mc50 definitely gives you a very very close Garcia tone.
Damn i like both, kinda like SMS a little more but very tough call.
Actually would love to hear both in stereo at same time ;-)
Where can i find the speakers mounts at?
You know it's stupid they both sound fine they really do it is nice to have variety and you could make either one of those rigs sound identical to each other with any shaping they both sound alike
What made you choose the K-120's over the E-120's? I just picked up a pair of BEYMA Liberty-8s....Most faithful E-120 replicas you can get? I'm just curious...sounds good brother, cheers.
K-120s were for several reasons. They are lighter, I cannot imagine needing 300-watt speakers, I want them to break up when needed, they are more common, and they seem to be cheaper. I don't think anything sounds close to a JBL x-120. There are no faithful replicas that I have heard.
@@mikekennedy5785 Tell Me about it. These bad boys are 30 pounds each. usspeaker.com/beyma%20liberty-1.htm check them out! Touring musicians all over are using them! Much easier to ascertain! I just ordered a hard truckers cab! They love em over there.
@@whistlemusic8572 Yes, I'm sure they are amazing speakers, but I don't think they sound like the JBLs, which is why I've been collecting K120s like toilet paper for a zombie apocalypse.
@@mikekennedy5785 hahaha that’s a great hobby! Love the videos bud!
@@mikekennedy5785 and thanks for the info on the K’s . So they are pretty much just a lower watt version ?
I'm just learning that The Ditto is a primary unit, not just a random piece of cool gear that I found, which I thought it was for about six weeks LOL. True story. I really thought that.
I know it has been quite a while but can you please post the approximate settings? I have a USA Strat into The AMP 50-->Weber California 1x12 and although I can get some good tones .... They aren't as good as yours .. Thanks very much.....
You are missing 2 important things:
1. A JBL speaker
2. A spud Waldo buffer in your guitar.
Settings are max treble, minimum bass on The Amp, and middle pickup selected.
@@mikekennedy5785 Thanks for replying.. I do play through a "Thick Air" pedal which I was led to believe would be nearly identical to the buffer. It is always on. I was also told a Weber California was a pretty faithful recreation but maybe it isn't getting me nearly far enough... Do you use open or closed back cab?
@@garethmurphy8235 Nothing sounds like a JBL. Those speakers are marketed that way, and probably sound great, but it will not sound like a JBL.
The Thick Air gives the Jerry dirt and thicker tone perhaps, but I don't believe it can replace the active buffer. It, like many pedals, has a buffer, but not one that makes the sparkling cleans like the spud, in the guitar. I went through all this when I started. You will not believe the difference those 2 make. There's a Grateful Dead Musicians Group and Gear Group on Facebook you should join.
@@mikekennedy5785 Hey Mike. Do you recommend any specific Spud Buffer. They have 4 or 5 versions on the site...
@@garethmurphy8235 The Spud I is the one I use. Recreation of the Tiger one. But if you want earlier or later recreations, or ones with added gain, you can do that. I'm sure they all sound 5 stars. Send Mike Wald a note if you'd like. He's really helpful and knowledgeable.
Have you ever plugged the milkman as a preamp into the McIntosh?
No, as I don't see the need. If something happened to my SMS pre-amp, I would use the Milkman on its own to replace the SMS and the McIntosh both. (Temporarily). So no real advantages in using The Amp as a pre-amp only, though it might be an interesting experiment.
@@mikekennedy5785 thx, yes would be interested to hear how it would sound as an experiment.
The milkman sounds good but the other thing is definitely more Jerry like.
Do you run your mutron before or after your drive . Iv be running it before but iv seen some ppl run it at the end with like delay and time base fx?
Tony- I have all my drive/dirt/distortion pedals after. The non-OBEL chain all comes after to begin with. Some people feel the need to boost their signal with a dirt/boost pedal before an envelope filter in order to get it to behave properly, especially with one like the Micro Qtron, which I used to have. The buffer in my guitar removes that need, especially if I switch from split/single coil to humbucker when using the Mutron.
So you can run 2 cords ? On into the obel and one in to the amp like a regular pedalboard. I was thinking that the other day . I do have the mirco qtron . I feel it sounds better at the end of my over drive and distortion. But that'll change when the wolph gets her .another question (sorry) what would you recommend for a late 80s jerry distortion. I have a new mxr plus and it's cool . I'm just looking for a fatter jerry distortion
@@tonywaterman8072 Google OBEL and you can see how it works. I use this distortion pedal after trying many others I did not care for.
www.sarnomusicsolutions.com/products/solar-flare-distortion.html
Thank you sir . And thanks for being cool with me asking these questions. ✌
Hey so is it OK to run the milkman into 2 jble e120 s?
Hey man where did you get that guitar and awesome amps and llaying
curious if ever tried the SMS into the milkman or if thats even possible?
The Milkman is more of a pedal/amp. The SMS is only a pre-amp. So it would not make a lot of sense, unless you can bypass the pre-amp of the Milkman and get just the SMS pre-amp. Not sure you can do it. I would think you would be better off just using the SMS and running through a pristine power amp of some kind. Not necessarily a McIntosh.
@@mikekennedy5785 yeah just curious . I’ve been trying to find some alternatives for power amps with the SMS. Not familiar with the milkman stuff .
@@BlackMath69 Try Quilter. Even a used low-end one w/o much effects.
MC50 sound more nuanced to be. The difference is so small that it really would not matter much in anything but a UA-cam comparison. However owning the Jerry Rig would bring a smile to my face everyday, so there is that ;)
Who built the guitar? I want one!
Troy Post
Milkman gets my vote
To my ears, I like the SMS JG preamp better. Warmer tone. The MIlkman's "The amp" sounds a little too brittle to me.
Is the Mc50 decently loud enough for a band setting?
Yes, by a mile. I dont think ive ever needed it past 50%.
Thanks man✌
@@jimslawnikowski1861 This is probably around 25% and that's not even with any boosting/gain pedals engaged.
ua-cam.com/video/LxqvlhOkuIU/v-deo.html
The amp sounds better overall.
Which guitar is that?
Troy Post
Although they both sound great, there is no comparison really - the SMS JG Classic/MC50 can't be beat. You can especially hear in it in the single note lines.
well as a bass player for 50+ years i'd go with the MC50.. just sets in my ears a bit better.. more perceived full range .. i think i hear the "note" a bit better, easier.. milkman sounds a bit more modern.. more effected... just an opnion.. good luck.. ;p
I think if you tweak the Milkman a bit, especially on the treble side, you can almost achieve the same tone of the Mac. The mac is naturally more rounded but that punchiness of the Milkman may give an edge in a band situation
The Milkman treble is maxed on here I agree. On lower volumes it lacks a bit of the high-end needed. But when you dial it up, it's perfect. It's the same with the SMS. The "bright" switch helps the SMS at lower volumes to get the needed high-end, e.g. when I am practicing at low volumes. But it is overkill in band situation.
The SMS/Mac combo has the flavor. Consider the spud, you won’t regret it! Edit: should clarify that the Milkman sounds pretty great for the price, but it’s missing the warmth and bit of growl imo. Both amps are absolutely killer
What is the spud?
The Milkman does plenty of grit if you need it to. I was trying to keep it clean and match the sms at how I usually play bit before using pedals tho. You can definitely set it with a bit of grit like Jerry and just dial it back. But it would get a bit complicated for me to change amp settings and mess around during the video.
@@mikekennedy5785 Ooo I don't want grit! I want growl! Haha. For sure, that makes total sense. The "Spud" mod is the same thing as the Maestro if you've heard of that. By Waldo. The dynamic range feels twice as big and the whole amp opens up
@@WhirlASound Yes, I have heard of the Maestro mod, but I have never gotten enough information about what it actual is, how much it costs, or if it's a Waldo-only type thing, etc., to have enough desire to pursue it. I don't envision being able to do without my SMS or having a second suitable replacement (vintage blackface twin) to do without the one I have for gigs. Maybe some day.
The sms Mac is bit more punchy and full
They need to be compared through the same speaker.
They are the same model.
@@mikekennedy5785 doesn't matter. The same model will have many variations in a speaker that old.
@@searing7549 Except that they were both reconed the same year by the same guy, using the same kit, 2 years ago.
@@mikekennedy5785 that's good info to know. Thanks. Not trying to bust your balls or anything. Just trying to ensure authenticity.
McIntosh = Jerry Garcia tone. Milkman = John Mayer tone. Does anyone have a McIntosh through a Fender Rhodes setup that they can post?
The tone almost all comes from the blackface w/Jerry mods, twin reverb preamp clone... The SMS. The McIntosh is mainly just a very transparent and clean power amp.
@@mikekennedy5785 I'm playing my guitar and Rhodes through a mesa boogie studio preamp and mesa 50/50 power amp into a Fender Twin Cab (I don't like the amp portion of it). I want the exact same tone I have currently without the fan noise of the 50/50. I can't disconnect the fan because Mesa Boogie says not to do that. Would the McIntosh MC30 be a good replacement or is there a cheaper option do you think?
@@karlmoore6354 You need a class D power amp that can be transparent. Don't need to spend as much as us Jerry purists on a McIntosh. Check out the Quilters. Tons of power. Some decent eq controls and some with reverb too.
Sounds close enough but the tubes add a little something it’s hard to say what it is.
Both units have 12AX7 tubes for preamp. Neither have tubes for power amp.
@@mikekennedy5785 thanks for the demo. Decided to get the milkman
very very very very very very little difference between the 2.
That's a cool video and all, but Jerry sounds EXACTLY like Jerry through his career, and on acoustic or electric. I dig the rig man, but there's no mistaking the guy.
Of course
I'm a big fan of Jerry. First show was '87...'86? East Rutherford. That tone you're getting is so clean. Nicely done.
Imitation is suicide. Emulate, don’t imitate.