Can You Lose Your Salvation?
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- Опубліковано 30 кві 2018
- What does the Bible teach about losing your salvation?
We'll talk about it...
The notes, turns out, are too long to fit in the description, so I posted them up on the humbly named blog. You can find them here:
www.wolfmueller.co/losesalvation
World-Wide Wolfmueller www.wolfmueller.co
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“Jesus is a better savior than you are a sinner” great stuff
"Jesus is a better Savior than you are a sinner." As someone who keeps being drawn to God, but suffers from feeling like I'm not good enough to be saved or forgiven for some of my past sins. That statement meant a lot to me.
None of us are good enough to be saved. That’s what makes His Grace so amazing. God chose the foolish, the weak, and the lowly so that no man could boast before Him. 1 Corinthians 1:25-29. God bless!
"Where did my salvation go? I just had it a minute ago." Lol. Great way to drive the point home ❤
that ending was priceless
Hey pastor! Your law&gospel approach to this subject makes infinetly more sense than what I was served when I was a neo-calvinist! Thanks be to God for faithful men like you!
Hello. Could you, please, tell what the main differences between old and new calvinism are and what with lutheranism? Thank you.
jordan tsak have you figured out the answer to this question?
What is neo Calvinists?
Calvinists are exceedingly evil.
@@robertoarriola-bustamante9169 Neo means new or revived.
You can loose your salvation but only God can keep you in it. Awesome!!
So he picks and chooses as he pleases?
All YOU can do is reject salvation. What is given by God’s grace will not be removed.
once your in, your in. God has you in a holy headlock...
haha!
😂😂😂
Bless God❤️ he really is a truly loving Father
Thank you for these videos pastor. My Calvinist friend and I debate a lot (usually about tulip). We both know we are in fellowship evangelically but it can get really tough sometimes. These videos are a source of reassurance for me that there are many that share my Lutheran worldview as well.
My Calvinist friend is pretty rigid about their beliefs. When I quote versed to support my belief she just says "No".
This comment has brought me great comfort. Thanks
Wow, I love that. 'You cannot out so the grace of God with your sins.' lord have mercy on me. Please keep you children safe in your salvation.
Mind blown! Lately I have been struggling with this and you did an awesome job at not only explaining but giving me hope that I am secure. Thank you! God bless you!
Its like sitting in a physics class as a English major. Dumping out equations and theories everywhere. I skipped backward more than forward. A+++ presentation. Great content great presentation. Thank you for such a great presentation!!! Going to watch again !!!!!
Something occurred to me later, I think I watched this long, long ago.
Anyway, to "lose salvation" we always must remember it is possible. By so many ways. The one I was hammered with most recently was listening to Keith Green over again during Lent, in The Prodigal Son Suite.
The younger lost it. And regained it. The older was in danger of losing it.
But like you said, sir, at the end. He won't lose us. EVER. The father saw him from afar and had never ceased looking for him until he returned. God never stops pursuing us, never stops following us, trying to lead us back to Him, trying to save our souls (SOS).
Praise be to God.
You know, I do believe that God does pursue certain ones of us. I fell in love with Christ as a child. Since then, my dad died when I was 15, and I have done some very unrighteous things. I should have been dead more than once. I believe that God has always pursued me...he knows my heart loves Christ, and always has, but I have done some things that are more worldly. I believe he has his hand on me snd will not leave me until I get it right. I know this may sound crazy to someone who hasn't felt this, but I can only say, that I know what I feel.
@@MissMolly3377 we cannot disagree with that. We have been washed in the water and the Word! We are dead to sin in Baptism with Christ, and now we will live FOREVER in Him. It's ok that we will never get it right, because He will keep His hand on us until He plucks us out of our misery and pain to be in everlasting paradise. God will never stop pursuing all of His precious children, and whether it is to convict me in the Law or to comfort me in the Gospel, I know He holds me eternally
Just finished The Hammer of God, which just "hammered" this home for me
Hallelu Yah!!!
..
@@rb5 isn't avoiding sin a work?
@@dubbelkastrull no!
@@liljade53
What is work then?
I prefer the term “willingly forfeit” to “lose.”
You can't give salvation back
@@bullwhip2444 but you CAN willingly walk away from it
@@Outrider74 no you can't devil
Saved Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit until we go to Heaven. So you can't make God Leave.
@@Outrider74 you are of the devil for teaching and believing that lie from Hell
Wow, thank you! Glory be to God, He is definitely using you as an instrument of righteousness and His good works.
Totally not on topic....I was seriously bummed when WETV disappeared. Pr. Wolfmueller, you have kicked it into overdrive and have more than filled the hole. Thanks and Deo Gratias!
The Trinity saves the sheep. The Father chooses the sheep, The Son dies for all the sins of the sheep, and the Holy Spirit regenerates the sheep.
Jesus says:
“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me- just as the Father knows me and I know the Father-and I lay down my life for the sheep!”
John 10:14-15
Jesus also says:
“You do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one!”
John 10:26-30
The Bible says:
“My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:1-2
This was written after Jesus taught that he lays down his life for the sheep. In order to not contradict Jesus, this passage must teach that even though Jesus Christ was a Jew he is the atoning sacrifice for the whole world without distinction including the non-Jewish sheep scattered through the world as taught in John 11:51-52.
“He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.”
John 11:51-52
Plus if Jesus died for all the sins (1 John 1:7) of the unbelieving goats, then they are saved because their sin of unbelief has been paid for by Jesus’ death and was nailed to the cross. (Colossians 2:14, 1 Peter 2:24) But not everybody is saved so Jesus did not die for the sins of the goats.
Also Jesus did not die for the sins of people who were already in hell. Why would he?
Jesus died for the sheep who the Father gave him otherwise we split the Trinitarian work and nature of God and His will in which the three persons are in agreement.
Jesus says:
“For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.”
John 6:38-39
Jesus laid down his life for the sheep the Father has given him and Jesus says he will lose none of the sheep given to him.
Like Peter the sheep might fall away for a time. But God will preserve his sheep to the end.
“Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 1:6
The sheep have everlasting life (salvation) and it is impossible to lose something that lasts forever. Otherwise they never had everlasting life. They had temporary life.
“They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.”
1 John 2:19
In most Evangelical churches they don't believe you can lose your salvation. They just believe only a few can earn it. Kind of depressing.
This had been wreaking me for about a year.
Thank you for clarifying. Your work is appreciated
Thanks, helpful. A 4th reason might be you're worried that a friend or child has lost their salvation.
I love this. I've been trying to explain this to people and I love how he so beautifully did. The only thing that I would describe differently is... It's a relationship. It is a living breathing relationship. Repentance takes us to the cross, and love and appreciation fills us to want to obey the laws of love, which is what the ten commandments are: Loving God with all our heart with all our soul with all our mind and with all our strength, and loving our neighbors ourself, and that's exactly what the ten commandments are all about. His yoke is easy and his burden is light.... And in our relationship with him we learn of Him. It truly is the narrow way. ❤️
Yes
The title is suggestive: when it is ‘your salvation’ it will always remain vulnerable.
As a Calvinist, I agree fully with your points. The reason Calvinists love to talk about these is because 'salvation' in their mind is pretty much 'predestination'. After all, they are very rational. But the Bible does not use that term in a singular way, thus you are right in bringing us back to the law and the gospel.
Thank you for always bringing the love of Christ to us.
I sure hope you found what you were looking for. Thank you for this crystal clear explanation.
EXCELLENT TEACHING, BRYAN.
Salvation means precisely this: Self Elevation. Ours is a do-it-on-your-own project, because you yourself are on your own. The Disciple of Christ does NOT go on strike. This is NOT a dress rehearsal.
Probably the best treatment of this question I have seen online. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for the fine overview of the topic. I am glad for these opportunities to learn the Lutheran perspective on such topics, so that I might come closer to the truth.
Praying hopefully *This Also Will "help"* get *Closer To The Truth!* Amen?:
*Grace/Peace From God, The Father, And From The LORD And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST!*
*LORD JESUS, Before you Come To Gather us Home To Heaven, Please*
*Grant Thy Divine Help to understand Thy Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!"*
Amen:
*What Would God, In HIS Age Of GRACE Today, Have* us Also "DO," that was:
*"learned, and received, and heard, and seen, In Paul"? (Philippians 4 : 9!)*
*"Study to shew thyself Approved Unto God, a workman That Needeth*
*not to be ashamed, Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2 : 15!)*
*"Sample" Of Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth!:*
Leaders/Numbers in *God's TWO "Different" Programs:*
(1) Representative apostles + number! For: God’s LAW/PROPHETIC Program:
God’s Complete Number TWELVE “represents” ► TWELVE "baptismS," ◄ TWELVE tribes
of Israel, TWELVE apostles who will rule in the "Prophesied" Kingdom *With CHRIST!,*
on TWELVE thrones (Genesis 49 : 28; Isaiah 9 : 7, 32 : 1; Matthew 19 : 28;)
(Luke 22 : 30; James 1 : 1!)
►►► *gospel of the kingdom!* ◄◄◄
►► Salvation = "he that believeth AND is baptized Shall Be SAVED!"
(Mark 16 : 16 cp Luke 7 : 29-30; Acts 2 : 38; James 2 : 17-18!) ◄◄
Note: ALL "Diligent" students of *Scripture* "should" Already "know"
that ALL of *God's Promises TO Israel,* Are _For The EARTH!,_ correct?
prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1 : 68-70; Acts 3 : 21!)
► The Second { "Prophesied" } Coming To Set Up:
God’s “Earthly Kingdom” = HIS Purpose FROM “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25 : 34) ◄
►►►► The Second { "Prophesied" } Coming Belongs HERE! ◄◄◄◄
---------------------------------------------------------------------
*Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15) From:*
------------------------------------------------------
►►►► *The MYSTERY { "Secret" } Coming Belongs HERE!* ◄◄◄◄ Amen?:
► *God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose BEFORE “the foundation of the world”*
*(Ephesians 1 : 4!)*
*Kept Secret “since the world began”*
*(Romans 16 : 25; Ephesians 1 : 4-11, 3 : 5-9!)* ◄
*(2) Representative apostle + number! For:*
*God’s Revelation Of GRACE In The MYSTERY ("HEAVENLY Program!"):*
*Paul, ONE individual apostle, BOTH Roman and Hebrew, "represents"*
*reconciliation, by GRACE, of BOTH Jew and Gentile, as INDIVIDUALS,*
*SPIRITUALLY Baptized (And "United!"), ► By ONE Baptism! (1 Corinthians 12 : 13!),* ◄
*Into ONE Body, In HEAVEN!,* ...
... *[ By The DEADLY, But Amazingly Wonderful CROSS! ] Of CHRIST,*
*The Risen And Glorified SAVIOUR, The Only HEAD Of HIS Church!!*
*(Acts 22 : 27-28; Philippians 3 : 5; 1 Corinthians 12 : 13;)*
*(Ephesians 2 : 11-16, 4 : 1-6!, 5 : 30!)* *Praise HIS Precious NAME!* Amen?
►►►► *Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!* ◄◄◄◄
►►► *Salvation = "For By GRACE are ye SAVED Through faith; and that not*
*of yourselves: it is The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast!"*
*(Ephesians 2 : 8-9! cp Most of Romans through Philemon! # )* ◄◄◄
Note The Contrast!: ALL "Diligent" students of *Scripture* "should" Soon See
That ALL of *God's Promises TO HIS Body, Today, Are ""HEAVENLY!"" #,* correct?
►►►►► *God's GRACE Departure!* ◄◄◄◄◄
*HE "Could Catch us UP!, To GO THERE, At Any Moment!," According To:*
*ONE { Mystery} "prophetic" Doctrine Of resurrection/departure To Heaven!*
*(Esp: 1 Thessalonians 4 : 13-18; 1 Corinthians 15 : 51-57!, In Romans-Philemon #)*
{ So, please *Do Be Ready For JUDGMENT THERE! (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15!) }*
Amen?
Do you, friend, agree that ALL "members" of *The Body Of CHRIST!* "should" be
in *ONE agreement,* And should be:
*"Endeavouring to keep the Unity of The Spirit in the bond of Peace!*
*There is ONE Body, and ONE Spirit, even as ye are called in ONE hope of your calling;*
*ONE LORD, ONE Faith, ONE Baptism, ONE God and Father of all, Who Is Above all,*
*and through all, and in you all!" (Ephesians 4 : 3-6!)*
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
{ ALL The "NUMBERS experts" know there is A Vast "Difference" Between 12 &
*"ONE,"* Correct? }
Or, we could Make This Fatal ERROR, & just stay With The "wonderful/marvelous"
2000-year-old judeo/christian "combo":
(1) LAW + *(2) GRACE* = (3) "religious Confusion Of Contradictions" Method...
..."remaining" as a weak And Divided *Church, Displeasing God!* Correct?
Friends, "which" of the above do "you Believe," In *God's Age of GRACE Today:*
*Are CURSED By God! (Galatians 1 : 6-9!)???*
IF your "particular" group "subscribes" to (1) OR (3), Please, *Obey God...*
*...As HE "Beseeches"!:*
*"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, Saith*
*The LORD, And touch not the unclean [ ACCURSED!? ] thing; and I Will Receive*
*you, And Will Be A Father Unto you, and ye Shall Be MY sons and daughters,*
*Saith The LORD Almighty!" (2 Corinthians 6 : 17!)*
-----------------------------------------------
*GRACE/Repentance And FAITH, Found In SCRIPTURE, to The Honor And*
*GLORY Of GOD, The Father, Through The LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST!*
Amen?
Please Prayerfully and Carefully *( 1 Corinthians 2 : 13! )* Study, enjoy,
And learn From *The Blessed Teacher,* and, Always Be Richly Blessed! In:
*God's Inexhaustible Mine of Precious Gems = Pure and Holy Scriptures! ##*
Please Always Be Richly Blessed *In HIM And HIS Precious Word! #*
brother Chris - - *ETERNALLY Saved In JESUS CHRIST!*
{ i must decrease; *HE Must Increase!* }
*I ❤️ JESUS And HIS Truth!:*
*The Word, 👑 Law, Rightly*
*Divided From GRACE✝️ ( 2 Timothy 2 : 15! )*
{ = *God-Given "Key" For Understanding Scripture! #* } Amen?
*## KJB Only Is God's Preserved Word!*
gracebiblecommunitychurch.org/kjb/ or:
*KJB PowerPoint Presentation!:*
www.theoldpathspublications.com/PDFs/Defending%20The%20KJB%20By%20Dr%20Waite.pdf
*# Romans - Philemon = God's GRACE Love Letters For us Today For:*
*Consolation, Comfort, Edification, Enjoyment, Encouragement, And*
*spiritual Building Up Of ALL the "members' ( saints! ) In The Body Of CHRIST!,*
*HIS Church, Seated In HEAVEN!* Amen?
Best "dispensational" teaching, imho {this "changed" my "confusion" *Into Light!* Amen?}:
*Things That Differ! (PDF) =* shopeshop.org/Searchable%20Riches!/Authors/Stam,%20CR/Things%20That%20Differ.pdf
And/or:
*7-Part Video Series:* gracebiblecommunitychurch.org/rightly-dividing/
or More *Rightly Divided "studies"...* from bro Chris, IF you wish...
Again, please *Be RICHLY Blessed In The LORD And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST!*
The last parable in the end of Matthew 18 is pretty clear as day that you can be saved one moment and then lose it the next. Also Revelation 2:11 is pretty obvious too.
Ask yourself this: is forgiving others, and enduring to the end a means to be saved, or is it a product of salvation, that is of one that is saved?
Clear and Scriptural. Thank you and God's peace be with you.
Thank you for this message. Long story short, I was married and divorced twice to the same man.I fell away from the Lord several times in my life. Raised Assemblies of God but never felt at home there. Left the church and fell away. I met and married a Lutheran (Missouri Synod). Meeting him helped me leave my involvement in the occult. I should say The Lord led me out of the occult. I became Lutheran but I see it as coming into the family of God. Praise the Lord! My husband invited me to church, when we were dating and I heard the gospel preached. I no longer wanted to be lost in sin. I was baptized into the Lutheran church and am now a member. Satan likes to attack the past. I just happened to be looking into why Catholics believe as they do. I read that divorced people, who remarried, are not allowed to take communion because they are considered living in sin. That absolutely horrified me that I could be living in sin because I remarried. I couldn’t understand it. I was married in the Lutheran church by a Lutheran pastor. I became a member and was allowed to take communion. So why does the Catholic Church say that I’m still living in sin? I became so depressed and worried sick that I was sinning every moment by being married again. I ask for the Lord’s forgiveness everyday and believe that Jesus Christ alone is my salvation. But still am somewhat worried. But the phrase that keeps coming to me over and over is His grace is sufficient for me. Could you please address this topic for those of us that have gone through divorce and have remarried? I believe I am a sinner but I also believe that the Lord’s forgiveness is greater than all my sin, including from the past. After getting back to listening to your videos, peace has come back to my heart. Thank you. I choose to follow the Lord everyday and read the Bible daily with prayer. I love the Lord and want to be accepted by him and go to Heaven.
Hi Angela, I used to be Catholic. It's just their own church rule, it doesn't apply outside their jurisdiction. Basically, if a Catholic marries someone in the Catholic church, then gets divorced, they are not free to remarry and allowed to remain Catholic. But, if they are Catholic and get married outside the Catholic church, then get divorced, they can get married again in the church because it doesn't recognize any marriages outside of its own jurisdiction. I have not found this to apply anywhere else.
My mother was raised Catholic in England, and married my dad who had no religion. They were married in the Catholic church, then later were divorced. When she married again, the church did not recognize it as a valid marriage, and excommunicated her for "living in sin". They also would not perform the ceremony because of her divorce. I cannot even describe the horrific effects that had on her for the rest of her life. It is a despicable thing for them to do. They were basically telling her she had no chance to escape eternal condemnation.
I would encourage you not to let the Roman church decide your spiritual status, especially since you're not even Catholic in the first place. They would have said you were living in sin in your very first marriage because you're not Catholic and didn't have them perform the ceremony. They say no one can be saved unless they're Catholic and follow all their rules and church commandments. They believe they are the mediator between God and man, instead of Jesus being that as the Bible says. He is our High Priest. I hope you won't let it bother you any further. Have you asked your Lutheran Pastor about this?
@@doriesse824 Thank you Dorie for replying to my comment. Thank you for sharing from your own personal story and that of your mother. I haven't asked my pastor about it. I seem to have a peace about it now like I never did before. I just know the past can be so painful and the devil really likes to try and get to me about my past. I'm so thankful to the Lord for his salvation and his peace that surpasses all understanding. God bless!
Thank God for this channel.
Great Pastor. Thanks for the video!
The strong Word.
*Can A Christian Lose Their Salvation?* Here is Jesus' answer:
"But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." (Luke 12:45,46)
Unfortunately this is pre crucifixion
And its meant for Israel.
Romans 15:8
King James Version
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Be blessed
@@livingwater7580 If "once saved, always saved" were true, then there would have been no point in warnings like these, which were all given AFTER the resurrection:
⚫ Romans 11:19-22: The apostle Paul warned that Gentiles, even after being "graffed" into the "vine," could be "cut off" the vine, just as the "natural branches" - the Israelites - had been broken off:
"Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."
⚫ Hebrews 4:1: "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."
⚫ 1 Corinthians 9:24-27: The apostle Paul had the holy spirit. Paul clearly refuted "once saved, always saved": he stated it was possible for him to revert to a life of sin and therefore be rejected . . . a "castaway." Here's verse 27:
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
There's a message there for all who have been misled to believe that *having* the holy spirit is a "seal" or guarantee of your salvation. We must remain in repentance, ready to be *led* by the holy spirit (Romans 8:13,14), "walking after the spirit" (Romans 8:1) . . . not just _having_ it and ignoring it.
⚫ 2 Peter 2:20-22 If, after overcoming sin through knowing Jesus, a person then returns to sin, "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
⚫ Hebrews 10:26,27 delivers the same warning about returning to sin:
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
⚫ Hebrews 6:4-6 It IS possible to fall away, even after receiving the holy spirit! There would have been no point in writing the next passage if it were impossible to fall away:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
⚫ Hebrews 12:14,15 We can "fail of the grace of God":
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;"
⚫ Revelation 3:5 and 22:19 Our names CAN be blotted out of the book of life:
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
⚫ 2 Peter 1:10,11 Here's another example of "if" with conditions:
"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."
⚫ Heb 3:12-14 Another "if" with conditions:
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"
⚫ Col 1:21-23 Another "if" with conditions:
"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"
⚫ Romans 8:13 Another "if":
we must choose to be led by the holy spirit:
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the
deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans
8:13,14)
Well said,
Also 5 foolish virgins
Not enough oil to make it ..
Wonderful video Pr. Wolfmueller
Thanks! You always make me Chuckle- but I thank God for you ( and Kerri)
Even after five years from the posting of this video, all it’s contents, STILL true! Rock on, Wolfmueller! 😎
Excellent. Thanks 🙏 so much pastor
Fantastic video!
Nicely done Pastor.
I come a 'once saved always saved' AE/Ch background. We were taught you can lose your salvation by choosing to be unforgiving toward a 'brother who sinned against you and asked for forgiveness but you refuse to do so.'
For those who are distracted by the wobbling of the camera just click on the three dots that are near the 'share button' and scroll down. You will find the transcript of this video. You can listen to Pastor while you read along with the transcript. If you know anyone learning English as a New Language and this feature will help him/her too.
As an IFB I believed OSAS and I sinned at will. Glory to God that He's faithful and just.
Beautiful Pastor thank you.
Thank you for holding true to the holy Scripture and the key of Law and Gospel. Loved the ending, God's peace
Good video. I wish more LCMS pastors preached this from the pulpit.
Hallelujah! Great teaching!
Love your teaching videos, we really need to hear Gods Word taught in its truth and with clarity, so many churches in America are more concerned with putting butts in the seats and entertaining them, than teaching the whole truth of God! Loved your book, do you have another book coming out? Have you considered writing a book about the "End Times" so that we better understand what scripture says compared to all the heretical teaching out there? Please keep the videos coming! I have stage 4 Cancer and I use your videos to help teach my children and my grandchildren.... God Bless! If you ever make it out to Houston, I'd love to come hear you teach! BE SAFE, GOD BLESS!!!
My Brother I m agree with you 100%
I m suffered with a Baptist church here ‘ about this topic ‘ I told them the same things and they call me fake one)
It’s sad for sure ‘ they told me that we never lose the salivation ‘ also they told me that a Christian can kill self that it’s ok God will still got them into the kingdom of God ‘ it’s was so sad ) bless you sir
I cling to the promises of Jesus “ only those who are faithful to the end Will be saved!” A promise the Baptist Church doesn’t follow in their doctrine.
I am part of that second group. I guess I needed to hear this. I have always thought that God has had his hand on me. I have loved Jesus since I was a child. I mean, really loved him, with my whole heart. I still love him and believe in him. I just feel that I am not worthy of what he has done for me. I have done some bad things in my life, after my dad died when I was 15, yet, I have always felt he has a hold on me. I am his and, thankfully, he won't let go, no matter what. I just can not forgive myself, for what I have done, and I think I am not worthy. I then feel guilty because I know that feeling that I am not worthy is, also, a sin. Which, then, makes me feel even more worthless. Thank you, for describing what I have always been feeling. I have always felt like God has me in his hand, always!!!
Man, you’ve described my exact experience for most of my life. I just said a prayer that God would give you peace and comfort. Scrupulosity is a pain in the but, and the devil loves using it to torture you. But your salvation has absolutely, positively nothing to do with you, and absolutely everything to do with God’s grace, won for you on the Cross and given to you in the Word and Sacrament ministry of the Church. If you were brought into the faith by grace, then surely you continue by grace (that’s in like Galatians or Romans or something, sorry I don’t have the verse. But it’s something like, “if you were saved by grace are you now being perfected by the spirit” saying it in a tone that is contextually clear to be “of course not! That grace which brought you into the faith is the same grace that sustained you!”)
11:30pm Grace is always available to the penitent and the forgiveness of sins is always there for us sinners. Faith cometh by the hearing of the Word of God... us ALC... "believe your sins forgiven in the Name and Blood of Jesus".
No man can pluck us from the Father's hand, but through free will, we are able to leave His hand (how I have explained it to my children). Willful living in sin hardens one's heart and they can walk away...
Powerful truth! Thank you sir.
Yes. The way to lose your salvation is to try and save yourself.
Michial Brown
Where was that asserted?
There exists a distinction between descriptive and prescriptive language.
Living with addiction is very much like the first two situations. Plotting a grave sin and doing it, then being afraid of losing my salvation because of that. As you said in the video I always need to hear the Law for my sinful behaviour and then come to Christ for salvation.
As I often leave and try to decieve myself and the Lord, He isn't like me. He is faithful and praise be to God takes me back.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
You should have said at the end, "Carrie, Have you seen my salvation?!".
This is Great
I'm Lutheran, but I think that we have a huge misunderstanding of what calvinism really says, and so we make a flawed critique of them. Of course they know those passages that seem to imply that you lose salvation, and they explain them in the light of the others you yourself give here. They simply say that the only saving grace includes perseverance, so that those who don't fall in good soil and "lose" their salvation, was never an object of that saving grace, in the first place. It's not a big mystery. We do know that everyone receives what he received according to God's purposes and not for something that is in them. And of course, calvinists also teach that it's your own fault if you reject the faith, be it at the beginning or at any point after believing. I'm 100% sure if this, because I was a calvinistic theologian before being Lutheran. In other words, you are completely right, but you saying exactly what orthodox calvinism also says. "They were among us, but didn't belong to us" is perhaps their favorite verse for explaining this apparent mystery. Now, we are encouraged to keep our salvation because through those encouragements the grace of God acts and puts in our hearts the desire to persevere. Grace never operates apart from law and gospel.
I think we talk past one another on these issues . As a Presbyterian who embraces Lutheran Law/Gospel distinction it seems we are seeing the same things from different angles is all .
John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life,and they shall NEVER perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
Excellent! You may know of the book “The Narrow Lutheran Middle” (Daniel Deutschlander, NPH) which goes through main doctrines such as this and contrasts the very two sides you have identified. I highly recommend it!
I must retorn în Italy and l see you from there.
I see that after WW2 The Matthew was funcțional (Gospel) You cannot serve The Money and The God. A side from mony The communistes, a side from God, The Occident, în Europe. Save God America
I am a part of an eternal security, Calvinists leaning independent Baptist Church. I grew up in an assembly of God church that always preached "Once saved always saved is lie from the pit of hell!" After doing tons of research, and also reading my Bible many times through, I have come to lean more towards eternal security... but... I don't want to just agree with people's theologies just to make them happy, or because I am in the same church as them. I still really struggle with a lot of the verses you mentioned that warn against apostacy and/or falling away from the faith. Many great Christian theologians have believed that you CAN truly apostatize from the faith.
I understand your church background very well. I had a lot of experience with this. First of all, allow me to clarify using the Scripture Rules of EXPOSITION.
We do not find anything taught by the Lord and the Apostles that was not already taught in essence by Moses and the Prophets. Consider how the people were instructed to test all prophets , even Jesus by this test:
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to THIS WORD it is because there is no light in them"
(Isaiah 8:20)
So we would expect anything taught in the Gospels or in Acts or in Peter's writings or in Paul or in Hebrews to be consistent with the Law (Torah = Doctrine) and the Prophets, right?
Notice we often have Baptists arguing using human reason saying:
"Mark 16:16 says he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved BUT he that believes not shall be damned. Therefore (the Baptists say) we are not lost if unbaptized." But the text doesn't say this, it says the very opposite.
However, consider why this is relevant to your questions ....
Both Paul and Hebrews teaches that believing and baptized Christians can be lost through unbelief, exactly as in Mark 16:16. And it for this reason that Mark 16:16 is so written, especially using the aorist tense which denotes solid fact. For the verbs "believes" , "baptized" and "believes not" are all aorist tense, the tense of fact.
Now Hebrews states that his readers were ALL BAPTIZED.
"Having ... Our bodies WASHED with pure water". Hebrews 10:22.
Two things, here:
1) Hebrews uses the same root word "washed" in the Greek that Paul uses of his baptism in Acts 22:16. "Arise and be baptized and WASH AWAY your sins"
2) The perfect tense is used. This "Washing" in baptism remains ongoing, just as Jesus said it would in John 13:10, where he uses the same Greek word "Washed" .
But ... Hebrews addresses these BAPTIZED and WASHED persons saying
"Take heed lest there be in any of you AN EVIL HEART IF UNBELIEF IN DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD" (Hebrews 3:12). And this word "DEPARTING" is identical to the Greek word used by the Lord of those who "BELIEVE FOR A TIME but afterwards FALL AWAY" in Luke 8:13.
So it is possible for baptized believers to fall away and depart from God with an evil heart of unbelief. And Jesus states "He that believes NOT shall be damned"
But these Hebrews, to whom this warning was applied, were most certainly born again and truly Christian. Lest you should be seduced by Calvinist reasoning. For he writes "Having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience...." Hebrews 10:22
That's saving faith.
So saved individuals may indeed fall away again into unbelief . Without doubt.
But not only Hebrews, but Paul also teaches that Baptized believers may fall again into unbelief .
In Collosians 2:12 and Romans 6:3, 4 and 1 Corinthians 6:11, Paul teaches that we were Baptized and washed (1 Corinthians 6:11 using the same Greek word used for baptism in Acts 22:16).
Yet, in 2 Timothy 2:12, 13 Paul writes:
"If we deny Him HE WILL DENY US,
If we BELIEVE NOT, yet He abides faithful, He cannot deny Himself."
Two things:
1) Jesus warns that on judgement Day he will deny before his father and all the holy angels anyone who denies him. And Paul reaffirms this and includes himself with the use of the personal pronoun "We".
2) If we fall into unbelief , Christ remains faithful. On the one hand this does not mean we are automatically saved in we fall away. He has already pointed out that denial of Christ will lead to be rejected on judgment day. Rather, just because we fail, he doesn't . He stands true to his promise, that "If we confess our sins HE IS FAITHFUL and JUST to FORGIVE your sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" 1John 1:9.
Paul is of course alluding to the covenant promises made by God that his mercy extended to us by Christ doesn't depend upon our performance (Isaiah 54:10 and similar passages like Ezekiel 33:11)
One final point. When Paul warns:
"If you live after the flesh YOU SHALL DIE, but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
(Romans 8:13)
Paul isn't introducing anything new ... This is precisely the theology of Ezekiel who says of those righteous (through faith in Christ)
"When the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, SHALL HE LIVE? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them SHALL HE DIE."
(Ezekiel 18:24)
And again Paul warns:
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.". Galatians 6:7.
And this is precisely what Hebrews teaches later on on those who depart from faith:
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." (Hebrews 10:38)
@@mathete9968
No, OSAS is true
@@dubbelkastrull One of the very last of the warnings Jesus gave to the Apostles to teach unto the church was:
WATCH YOU therefore, and PRAY
ALWAYS, that YOU may be
ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE
ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to
pass, AND TO STAND before the Son
of man."
(Luke 21:36)
And in the parallel account in
Mark 13:37 , Jesus presses home this message and shows us who the intended recipients are:
And what I say unto YOU
I say unto ALL: WATCH
(Mark 13:37)
Jesus once described the foolish man who was likened to a man that built his house upon the sand.
And EVERY ONE that HEARS these
sayings of mine, and DOES THEM NOT,
shall be likened unto a
FOOLISH MAN,
which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods
came, and the winds blew, and beat
upon that house; and it fell:
AND GREAT WAS THE FALL OF IT.
You have a choice here.
You can trust the doctrines of men or you can trust the Son of God.
You can hear the Son of God and disregard his sayings, and continue on in the delusion that a believer cannot fall away and be lost.
Or you can heed Christ's warnings, and the warnings found in the Prophets , and the warnings found also in the epistles .
Watch carefully what foundation you choose to build upon my friend .
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in
any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in
departing from the living God ...
Now the just shall live by faith: but if
anyone draw back, my soul shall have
no pleasure in him."
(Hebrews 3:12; 10:38)
@@mathete9968
None of the verses you post proves osas wrong
@@dubbelkastrull Spoken like a fool
I really enjoy your messages, and that even when you get something wrong it seems that you’re really in love with God and have an honest desire for all to practice righteousness.
The real conundrum is that being married to a particular denomination rather than the Bible itself can cause one to be stuck with a particular doctrine, even the parts they got wrong.
Jesus spoke in parables for the same reason the Bible is written as it is; we hear what our hearts desire to hear. This separates the goats from the sheep.
If our love and desire is for God and His righteousness, we are drawn to what Jesus, His disciples, and even Paul says about God’s commandments and obedience.
But if we love sin and hate God’s authority over us, we are drawn to anything else that sounds like we’d be able to get away with sin.
The “mixed signals” you claim the impossibility of reconciling are of course mostly thanks to Paul’s exceptionally verbose choice of words.
Peter tells us Paul’s wordiness is *erroneously used* to condone sin (lawlessness), and we know there is no accident in Paul’s wordiness, just as there is no accident in the use of parables.
2 Peter 3:16 speaking of this as Paul does in all his letters. *There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction,* as they do the other scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, *beware* lest you be carried away with *the error of lawless men* and lose your own stability.
Chapter 3 reminded me alot of Peter walking out to Jesus on the water and sinking when he saw the storm raging. He was only walking successfully by Christ's power, and it was his own doubt and fear and lack of faith that caused him to sink down.
Wonderful explanation..when debating others, I merely say, once saved always saved is salvation without faith, and there is no salvation without faith...thanks, now I have a secondary rationale for disbelieving that doctrine
Jesus is a better Savior than I am a sinner.... Pastor my soul needed to hear that today. For I Am His & He is mine.
Thanks!
1 John says that we stumble in many things, but we can confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all inequity...
Well said. Guten stuffen.
Do good works not to gain from God but because you love God it helps alot when i catch myself like feeling pride.
I find that the most common reason some people I know embrace the “once saved always saved” heresy is that they have beloved friends and/or family members who were once walking in the Faith, by God’s grace, but who have since made shipwreck of their faith and wandered off, LOST. They can’t bear to think of their loved ones being lost, and prefer the false comfort of the “once saved always saved” heresy to facing the truth, that their loved ones, unless by God’s grace they repent, WILL be lost to hell for eternity for rejecting the Faith.
@ProLifeBryce I find the most common reason people embrace the heresy of losing one's salvation is ignoring the great body of Scripture that proves we cannot lose what was freely given when we first believed. By the way--can you be unborn? Do you cease to become your parents' child because you disobey them, or sass them, or otherwise sin against them? Of course not. You may have to go to your room, or get spanked, but you are still their child.
That’s pretty much my view. I’m not Calvinist or Arminian. So, I see the balance in this
Pastor, Glory to God for this teaching! What is missing is the Lutheran approach to salvation in my country, Brazil. Here we are always between Calvin and Arminius. But you were simply biblical and this is wonderful. I would like to ask you for permission to subtitle your video in Portuguese, would it be possible? Would you authorize me?
A big and fraternal regards!
Pastor, Glória a Deus por este ensinamento! Que falta faz a abordagem luterana da salvação no meu país, o Brasil. Aqui ficamos sempre entre Calvino e Armínio. Mas o senhor foi simplesmente bíblico e isto é maravilhoso. Gostaria de lhe pedir a autorização para que eu legendasse seu vídeo em português, seria possível? O senhor me autorizaria?
Um grande e fraterno abraço!
Luther loved the paradox!
I was just thinking about how to explain this to some new-ish Christians. That was great. I was thinking of this like a one-way street, we can lose our salvation but not the other way - earn it. I like the ending - we can lose it but Jesus is working to hold us.
Do you have a video on the concept of free will?
Look up "wolfmueller free will" and you'll find it 🙂
i am a trad catholic, but i love this guy.
John 1: 1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." In Greek, Word is Logos, which is the same word we derive Logic from. So lets go through this logically and biblically, starting with a few presuppositions:
God is perfect, as is His Son, Jesus Christ, whom is God incarnate, correct? And God cannot fail at His job, since failure is evidence of imperfection. Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners (1 Timothy 1: 15). We also know from Ephesians 2: 8-9 that eternal life is a gift from God, and Romans 11: 29 says "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." meaning God will not change His mind on this matter.
Jesus is not an ineffectual savior, to say otherwise is heresy. Nor will God take back His promise, as that would make Him a liar, which is blasphemy. Therefore, if someone is saved by Jesus Christ, they are 100% secure in that salvation.
I grew up in a church that taught once saved always saved. later in life the church was exposed to be very problomatic in its doctrine I can no longer have peace believing just like a baptist. Im at a stage in my life where ive been let down by one faith and im open to see what other people are teaching. The once saved always saved teaching makes the most sense to me though. What I took away from this if a saved person, gets drunk, fornicates, cusses, or any really bad sin the bible condemns we are on are way to hell. You know how stressful that teaching is !? its a slippery slope into you relying on your own good deeds to have assurance
Did you listen to the second half of the video where he read the promise of God to keep you in the faith. He also said a wonderful line that brings much comfort. “Jesus is a better savior than you are a sinner.”
Watch the video again a few times through and especially hear when he talks about the kinds of reasons why people ask this question in the first place and go to where Bryan says to for your specific question.
I hope this response was helpful. Blessings brother!
@@christianb164Thank you for this beautiful, encouraging response!
@jaymiewilson9844 The only way a rebellious child of God can be taken out of this world for sinning repeatedly is by a 'sin unto death', as John says in I John 5. This is God's discipline, but never His rejection of His child. He simply says 'Come home'. Keep in mind God's longsuffering. I have struggled with a sin for many years. It is besetting, but not eternally fatal. Jesus did say, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you. after all, and He cannot lie.
I still believe Calvinists and Lutherans are merely talking past one another . As a Calvinist when I read those warning passages I never feel that they aren’t for me because I’m elect . I know they are for me because I’m elect and the Spirit that regenerated me is working in me to continually bring me to repentance and looking to Christ .
This was great. I never understood the once saved always saved idea but this gives me biblical reasons.
Do you have a video on habitual sin? Ie drinking, revenge, sexual immortality, etc.
Another reason they want to know assurance other than the 3 you mentioned. They want to know if they have security from outside attacks such as persecution or various schemes from the enemy (not that they are plotting for a license to sin).
i stopped praying at 25 and came back to the faith and now its stronger than ever. what does that mean for me then since i 'fell away'?
I have a private question. How may I get that to you?
Thank you
If it's left up to my willpower, (or rather the lack thereof), then I'm done... no chance for me!
That is why we have confession and absolution weekly and the lord’s supper weekly (hopefully) for us poor beggars Jesus gives us grace and faith. We just have to always receive what Jesus freely gives.
Gotta say, what was said here is eerily similar to what is taught in Reformed theology. As a Reformed believer watching through this, I agreed with most of what was said. I firmly agree that the perseverance of the saints is completely a work of God. I do not believe in OSAS and many other Reformed brothers would say the same.
I would encourage you to not just think that Calvin is the crux of everything Reformed. While he definitely greatly influenced the Reformed tradition, the thing as a whole was further worked out.
Probably the main point of distinction is how the Reformed in the doctrine of election see two groups of people: the elect and non-elect. A lot of people criticize the distinction, giving it the term double predestination, which is fair, but not quite what people think. In terms of God actively choosing and predestinating the elect, we and the Lutherans are in agreement. The Reformed in seeing this and in also seeing how God does not elect everyone to salvation see that there are those that God has not chosen and not elected. Even in understanding this distinction, we also don't know who is and who isn't. So, I think there is a point of agreement there with the Lutherans on that we don't know.
All that said and to keep this short, we are not far off in this area and this video was encouraging as I think there is a majority agreement, mostly with some of us more catholic Reformed.
I challenge the watcher to read every verse that is quoted with the whole context. The whole letter and chapter. Understand scripture with scripture.
If salvation is mans work, then it follows that yes you can lose it. If you can lose it, then it implies you gained it. But it isn’t a work of man because by works of the law no human being will be justified.
Rom 3:28
The work that God has started he will complete.
Rom 8:30
If they left it is because they were never of us.
1 John 2:19
Yeahhhhhh you should probably start by reading your own verses in context first
Come on Patrick!
Can you post the notes? I don't see them in the comments
The notes are on his website: wolfmueller.co/losesalvation/
I will be blessed if you Please tell me tell us all how to spell Francis last name that you mentioned here on this video Thank you
What’s is the Lutheran understanding of “cooperating” with God’s grace. That wording is used many times in the Roman tradition, and it makes sense to me. I’m in the ELCA
I relapse on my addictive sins even after confessing them and I continue to sin in other ways and get angry at people who make me angry. It seems too mammoth a task to keep God's Commandments and also feel remorse for them. That's why I worry I have lost my salvation, maybe it's the pietism instilled in me but I don't bear good fruit at all and therefore I still feel like I never was saved.
Comfort is the meaning of 'merit'.
There is a passage that you will practically NEVER see Christians bring up. What I'd like to know is, how can you lose your salvation when God is apparently presently NOT IMPUTING/COUNTING ANYONE'S sins against them?
(2 Cor. 5-19) God was in Christ, reconciling THE WORLD to himself, NOT IMPUTING their trespasses unto them, and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
What do you say about if ur not in 4 good then how do you not lose ur salvation period just wondering
“Romans 8:38-39 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
That seems to go to extreme lengths to convey how impossible it is to be separated from God, ever, even by my own power, no? 🤔
However, I do get it, it is hard to hear people say, “now go forth and do whatever you please!” 🤷♀️
Maybe that isn’t the best question - keeping or losing salvation...?
Everything Starts With a Dream
Dear ‘God always love us ‘ but if we decide to turn away from he ‘ he don’t care because it’s our choice’. We will lose the salivation if we don’t take a care of it ‘ if you don’t drive well what will happen to you ? Law will take your license away )
And what about the parable of the lost sheep? How would you interpret that? Is that related to this discussion at all?
Also, I have a question: you mentioned the passage in Corinthians about Paul giving those guys over to the Devil because they made shipwreck of their faith. That’s a case of practicing church discipline correct? And do we know if they were restored? If they were restored, would you say they lost their salvation, but got it back?
One can no more lose the new birth than one can lose their first....This is why Jesus made the analogy of being born of the flesh and being born of the Spirit...Neither of which one is the master of..."He that has begun a good work in you WILL see it through to it's completion......" Phil. 1 :6 ..
Of course you can lose your first birth. It's called dying.
You can also willfully abort your second birth. It's called apostasy.
*Ezekiel 18:23; 33:11* God wants all wicked to repent and live.
*Luke 7:30* God's βουλή (plan/purpose/resolve/counsel) for the Pharisees was to accept them. But they rejected this βουλή of God for themselves, by refusing John's baptism.
*1 Timothy 4:10; 1 John 2:2* He is especially the Savior of believers. He remains the Savior of all people. This makes the labor of evangelism and the reproach of scoffers bearable. He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the church AND the world.
*John 1:29; 3:16* The lamb of God takes away the sins of the world. God loved the world.
*Luke 8:13* Jesus asserts that some really do *joyfully believe* the gospel for a while, and actually *fall away* through trials and temptations.
*Luke 11:13* Jesus is emphatic that the Father gives the Holy Spirit to anyone who asks.
*Romans 11:32* Who does God have mercy for? Everyone whom he consigned to disobedience!
*1 Corinthians 8:11* It is possible to destroy the saving faith of a brother for whom Christ died.
*Eph **4:30* The Ephesians were sealed for the day of redemption, yet Paul warned them that the possibility of grieving the Holy Spirit was a reality.
*2 Peter 2:1* Christ bought even the heretics who deny Him and destroy themselves.
*1 Tim 2:1-6* Christ died for all people and wants all people to be saved. Therefore, Paul commands us to *intercede* even for godless kings and rulers.
*Hebrews 3:1-12* Even "holy brothers and sisters" can "turn away from the living God" with an "evil, unbelieving heart."
*Hebrews 2:1, 12:25* The author and the audience could reject God's warning and not escape.
*Hebrews 6:4-6* It is possible for one to be enlightened, taste the heavenly gift, have the Holy Spirit, tasted the goodness of the word of God, and then fall away.
*Ephesians 3:3-6; Isaiah 45:19* As God has revealed his secret will in scripture, it is always to extend greater mercy.
*1 John 2:2* Christ is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, not only for the church.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh and not be undone...That which is of the Spirit is Spirit and can not be reversed...True believers have been bought with the blood of Christ...WE belong to Him forever.
@@71superbee39 You clearly do not believe the verses above. That's a pretty good indicator that you are actually self-deceived, are slipping away, and may not be a true believer with him forever.
@@Mygoalwogel And you clearly use poor hermeneutics ....though you now also claim to know what is in another's heart and here was I thinking only God could know that....We're done...
@@71superbee39 Your words are the evidence of your heart. Your two comments directly contradict the verses I've provided. If you verbally contradict the Bible you are, by definition, and unbeliever. It doesn't matter what you think is in your heart. Your words are evidence.
You made a claim about my hermeneutics but have not supported it with any evidence.
What about scripture saying things like “branches being cutoff and thrown into the fire, virgins without oil being told I don’t knew you, ppl saying have we not healed sick in your name and being told I never knew you, remain in me and my love and I will remain in you", these scriptures refers to believers… and what about scripture describing the new Jerusalem as being kinda a small place? Does this not suggest ppl can loose their salvation?
What about all the ministers like Ray Comfort telling ppl if they sin after getting saved then they are not a Christian and never was; they claim they don’t believe in a works doctrine but their msg suggests everything Jesus did isn’t enough if you don’t repent; committing any sin after getting saved means you never truly repented thus are not and never were a Christian… By this standard and a rational persons understanding we can never live up to God’s standards and will always make mistakes and have bad periods, so if what Ray Comfort preaches is true then what’s the point in even trying as we are just going to fail and have ppl like Ray tell us we never were a Christian to begin with.
For that matter what us the point in ever praying as these same ppl say if your living with sin then God won’t answer your prayer or forgive you if you have habitual sin? Many ppl can live a very holy life but run into a time of trouble and have bad moments and according to the Ray’s of the world this means they were never saved to begin with which just makes ppl give up all hope… If Ray’s beliefs are true then it would be best to end your life right after you get saved so you don’t lose your salvation as we humans will always fail…
I personally believe we are saved by grace through faith by what Jesus has done and believing his Word is true and that every believer is saved unless they fully commit to denying Jesus in which case they filed for divorce thus met the only requirement for loosing their salvation; and if you have sin in your life after converting then your life on this earth won’t be as great or as long and when you get to heaven your rewards and position will be low but you will still be saved… Hearing and reading scripture about the grace God has given to us to save us is encouraging but so so many Ray Comforts are out their preaching things that confuses and lets ppl down ppl leaving them stuck therefore not involved or trying to advance their walk in faith as what’s the point in trying if your not actually saved per Ray’s beliefs of what being is…
Pastor,thank you. I do have a question now. If God does the saving and according to Jesus the wind blows where it will and we don't know where it comes from or where it goes ( his discussion with Nicodemus Regarding being born again) how then can we lose salvation if it is a gift from God and not of my works?
Short answer-yes
Semi-Pelagianism]
While not denying the necessity of Grace for salvation, Semi-Pelagianism maintains that the first steps towards the Christian life are ordinarily taken by the human will and that Grace supervened only later.
[Arminianism]
In contrast to semi-pelagianism, Arminianism teaches that the first steps of grace are taken by God.
Thank you. I have a couple questions. I feel a scenario wasn’t addressed. You mentioned some who feels they’ve committed “a sin” so wicked that God couldn’t forgive. What about someone who’s concerned, not about a certain sin, but a period of sin (known sometimes as backsliding)? Were they lost during that time? This leads into my next question which would be, if someone falls away, is it permanent? Can they come back? Will they be able?
Dan Lutherans would say that anyone can come back to faith if they repent.
1920s - What about “impossible to renew them” in Hebrews? Thanks.
Dan Paul Kretzmann, the son of a Lutheran pastor, wrote his Popular Commentary of the Bible, which "has been a favorite among confessional Lutherans since publication of the first volume in 1921."
In his comments on Hebrews 6, he called attention to the characteristics of the one who is spoken of in the passage: they were once enlightened, tasted of the heavenly gift, were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come. The description, he says, could only apply to those who were actually saved.
If persons to whom this description applies, people that have undoubtedly accepted Jesus as their Savior, placed their trust in His salvation, and anticipated the joys of eternal life by reason of the power given to them through the Word, now fall away in spite of this saving knowledge, by a deliberate denial of that knowledge, then their return to repentance is excluded. The reason for this fact is not to be sought in God, as though His gracious intention and will in their behalf had not been sincere, but in the people themselves. If their apostasy takes place as here described, with a deliberate, malicious denial of the truth, then they crucify to themselves the Son of God and set Him forth to shame and ignominy before men. They purposely and willfully deny all connection with the Lord, who was crucified for them, they brand Him as a criminal, as a false Messiah, who suffered the disgrace of death on the cross. All this they perpetrate against Him whom they formerly acknowledged as the Son of God, whom they knew to be the Savior of the world. They cannot plead ignorance, or that they acted in foolish unbelief. For that reason their behavior brings upon them judgment, eternal condemnation. Therefore the reason why their hearts become hardened, why it becomes impossible for them to return and to be renewed unto repentance, is to be found in the character of their transgression. They steadfastly and persistently persevere in their antichristian, blasphemous conduct, they harden their own hearts against all attempts of the Word to find an entrance, and are thus finally given over into their hardness of heart.
The writer does not say that his readers have reached this stage; he merely states the possibility that it may happen to them as it has to others, thus warning them to beware of spiritual sluggishness, of lack of diligence in the use of the means of grace. ... If, therefore, any persons that have received these blessings harden their hearts and bring forth fruits of blasphemy and malicious denial of grace, they have sealed their own doom. For the behavior here described is the sin against the Holy Ghost, for which there is no forgiveness, neither in this world nor in the world to come.
In other words, the passage is not describing a mere "falling away" -- Kretzmann's position is that "they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame" is not a characteristic of all apostasy, but of a special kind of apostasy: the sin against the Holy Ghost.
Regarding the sin against the Holy Ghost (spoken of in Matthew 12, Mark 3, and Luke 12), he writes:
The sin is committed, not against the person, but against the work of the Holy Ghost, which consists in calling sinners to Christ and giving them the assurance of their salvation. Not the mere blasphemous thoughts, but the actual speaking, the open mockery of the work of the Holy Ghost, is condemned in these passages. If the work of the Holy Ghost is believed to be, and is openly declared to be, the work of Satan, then the blasphemy is directed against the Spirit. Such blasphemy is uttered in full consciousness and with the most perfect comprehension of the import of the blasphemy; the blasphemer glories in his blasphemy. ... Man having gotten into this condition of continual blasphemy by his own fault, repudiates all attempts of God to influence Him for good. The soil of his heart has become cursed, and will bear nothing but thorns. The sin against the Holy Ghost is therefore one which cannot be acknowledged; a confession of sin and a desire for forgiveness is excluded by its nature.
The person living in this sin will continue in his stubborn resistance, with blasphemous, outspoken mockery of the work of the Holy Ghost, until the end. The sin is not unpardonable on account of its greatness, but on account of its nature of rejecting all pardon. No one has committed the sin that still seeks repentance.
Pardon is excluded not by God, but by the apostate himself, as Kretzmann said in both of the sections I've quoted. "Restoration unto repentance" is excluded because such a person will not seek repentance.
So an act of apostasy is permanent if the apostate wills it to be so by continually rejecting and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. An apostate can be restored upon repentance, but one who never repents is never restored.
@Dyount09 The only unpardonable sin a person can commit today is unbelief; rejecting Jesus Christ as one's Savior. Many believers are backslidden, because we cannot attain sinless perfection in this life. I John 1:9--actually, the whole letter--was written to Christians. We go out into the world daily in one way or another, and somewhere along the line we sin. Use the analogy of a child going outside to play. They get dirty, one way or another. Later on Dad or Mom calls them in the house, and they have to be cleaned up. The child never ceases to belong to his parents. He simply needs to be washed up, or have his clothes changed. The same is true in the spiritual realm. We need to get cleaned up by confessing our daily sins, so we can remain close to our heavenly Father.
God extends grace to all. Many choose not to accept it or live in such a way their faith dies.
As a Christian with (weaker than I would like) faith, hearing all this sounds very troubling to me. How in the world are we able to feel confident in my home in heaven? If I trust that I am going to heaven, that means I'm trusting in myself...or vice versa if I follow a sin filled life, then I am also not going to heaven...
Here I am looking upon my life, and what the Bible says...that I am a sinful human being and I know I will always life a sinful life. No matter how much I try, I will never be able to live a perfect life. Which means I am "living a sinful life..."
Also, being told that there's nothing I can do to "accept jesus" is even more troubling.
So how do I know when I'm safe with christ? I feel very lost and alone these days.
The only thing you can look to is that Jesus told you through his Word (proclaimed to all people generally), and his Sacraments (applied to you, personally: Baptism - Jesus claims you as His own, it is His work, not yours, and His Supper, He gives his body and blood, which save you, to you, where you literally ingest it and let it come into you), that He will do it.
Know that the righteous will be confused at the last day by Jesus telling them they did good works (saw Him naked and clothed Him, saw Him hungry and fed Him, etc.), so you should expect not to see your sin getting lesser, but rather, the work of the Holy Ghost will reveal more and more of it through your life.
I had the most incredible intimite walk with Jesus. O died a d experienced hell...you give probably don't.believe me, however the intimicy I had with Jesus was I loved him with all my heart and soul and strength. Leonard ravenhill, David pawson, joe sweet, pastor poomen. Great men this last century believe you can lose your salvation... obviously I'm confused and saddened I experienced this. God bless you all.
Note that NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES ARE RANDOM. The 800 pound gorilla in the room is a simple question: Why do seemingly good people sometimes experience terrifying NDEs, and Mafia-level people get bathed in unconditional love? This has been researched and is known. Some even happen to small kids, some were 6 year olds. 3% of them reported a distressing or "hell"-like experience. How many 6 year olds is your afterlife torturing? Don't try to categorize them into "good people" and "bad people" categories, it's not true. See here:
Nancy Bush (IANDS) - "Negative experiences further complicate matters, because THEY HAVE NO DISCERNABLE RELATION TO WHAT KIND OF LIFE a person has lived. In other words, being a good person is no guarantee that you won’t get into a terrible car accident and suddenly find yourself experiencing what feels, in a very real sense, "hellish.”" As Bush has seen, “What we think people deserve has nothing to do with whether they have a glorious experience or a terrible one. Saints have reported extremely disturbing NDEs, while felons have encountered bliss. Although people have sometimes wondered whether good people have pleasurable experiences and bad people have distressing ones, RESEARCH HAS SHOWN NO SUCH RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN APPARENT LIFE DEEDS AND TYPE OF NDE. In spite of the findings of these prior studies, this erroneous stereotype persists.
In addition, AMONG PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD MULTIPLE NDEs, SOME HAVE HAD A PLEASURABLE EXPERIENCE ONE TIME, AND A DISTRESSING EXPERIENCE ANOTHER, IN NO DEFINITE ORDER. NO EVIDENCE supports the conventional assumption that “good” people get pleasant NDEs and “bad” people have distressing ones. THERE IS NO HARD EVIDENCE THAT CHARACTER TRAITS “CAUSE” ANY TYPE OF NDE. The list of character traits that people assume help to create a distressing NDE include: being hostile, cold, repressed, suppressed, unloving, controlling, rigid, sinful, guilt-ridden, non-God-loving, fearful, mean. Although authors, even some researchers, have said those traits are connected to distressing NDEs, no testable evidence has been produced in support; THE LIST IS BASED ON GUESSWORK, ASSUMPTIONS, AND EXPERIENCERS’ SELF ASSESSMENTS (“I think I was unloving”), NOT ON FACTUAL EVIDENCE.
By contrast, THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WITH A PERFECT FIT TO THOSE DESCRIPTIONS WHO HAVE HAD PLEASANT, EVEN BLISSFUL NDEs. Some describe themselves as having been unloving, even hostile, before the NDE. On the other hand, some kindly, friendly, peaceful, religious, loving people have had a really difficult experience. The observable characteristics of a person simply do not match up to the type of NDE. The weakness I find is twofold: first, that people are so often crippled by their fear and guilt about a literal meaning of the NDE as they understand it (punishment, unworthiness, blame) that THEIR LIFE BECOMES DEFORMED. These kinds of experiences can be deeply traumatizing, enough so that reactions like those in PTSD may be commonplace."
Nancy Bush (IANDS): "Now...into all this comes Marilyn Mendoza, a Louisiana woman with a PhD in counseling and a curiosity about what it is like to die in prison. She also wondered if the deathbed visions of dying felons might be especially difficult. So far as anyone knows, deathbed visions differ from near-death experiences only in the fact that their experiencers don’t come back afterwards. Otherwise, the descriptions are virtually identical. Mendoza’s findings are therefore applicable to the study of near-death experiences and are reported in the latest issue of the IANDS newsletter. Her study population is housed at Angola, one of the most notorious of U.S. prisons. In her words, “Angola is a maximum security prison that has been called the bloodiest prison in America. It houses 5,000+ men whose crimes range from mu*der, ra*e, and armed robbery to drug offenses. The majority of men who come to Angola die there." “As is common with most people, the experiences the caretakers described were pleasant. The most frequently seen visions were of family members. Caretakers reported that the dying saw mothers, grandmothers, sons, fathers, and other family members. The dying spoke of people waiting for them and calling them to come home. The dying also spoke of angels, beautiful gardens, gates and the Light. The men stared at corners of the room, at the wall and the ceiling. They reached for and called out to the deceased they saw. In other words, the dying prisoners saw and experienced the same things as the general population."
"There is not a shred of evidence that good people get good experiences and bad people get bad experiences. The conviction that types of NDEs and deathbed visions are tied to moral qualities and behaviors simply does not hold up."
NDE STUDIES - (Los Angeles Times excerpts)......................
Researchers estimate that around 17 percent of people have an NDE. That means about 80% don't. Scratch beneath those alleged flat EKG lines, and the stories are a veritable twilight zone of inconsistencies. Some near-death voyagers claim to have met God - BUT A FEW SAW ELVIS PRESLEY OR GROUCHO MARX, researchers say. Others get to heaven not through the famous “tunnel”, but ABOARD GHOSTLY TAXICABS, FERRIES THAT CROSS THE RIVER STYX, OR SPANGLED COWS.
Even children - often touted as the best source of unbiased information - sometimes return from “death” claiming they were GREETED IN THE OTHER WORLD BY STILL LIVING TEACHERS, AND NINTENDO CHARACTERS, instead of deceased relatives.
HINDUS WHO BELIEVE IN YAMRAJ, the Hindu god of the dead, EXPERIENCED MEETING HIM. A Hindu girl "died" and WENT TO HEAVEN ON A COW. Would that mean people will be riding cows to heaven? Jews who don’t believe in Jesus or "hell", experienced God as described in the Old Testament; while Messianic Jews experienced God as Jesus.
In one study carried out, the experiences of 16 Asian Indians were compared with those of Americans, and it was found that THE INDIANS HAD ENCOUNTERED YAMRAJ, the Hindu king of the dead, WHILE THE AMERICANS HAD NOT.
Dr. Richard Eby had an NDE and allegedly Jesus told him he had to go back, and that he (Jesus) would return (2nd coming) before Richard Eby died permanently. BUT, DR. RICHARD EBY HAS NOW DIED, AND JESUS HAS NOT RETURNED.
A few hospitals have placed signs in their cardiac units - with nonsensical messages visible only from above - but so far NOBODY HAS RETURNED FROM DEATH CLAIMING TO HAVE FLOATED UP AND SEEN ONE.
You would expect, that if any particular religious account of the afterlife were true, NDEs would be pretty much the same. BUT THESE ACCOUNTS ARE SO VARIED AND ARE ALL BASED ON CULTURAL EXPOSURE. IN INDIA PEOPLE SEE HINDU GODS, IN SAUDI ARABIA IT'S MOHAMMED, ALLAH, AND A BUNCH OF VIRGINS. The kid from the book/movie Heaven Is For Real saw a Jesus with sea green-blue eyes on A RAINBOW COLORED HORSE, God with BLUE EYES, YELLOW HAIR AND HUGE WINGS, and ONE LITTLE GIRL WENT TO HEAVEN AND WAS GREETED BY A PORTLY MAN WITH A WHITE BEARD AND A RED CAP A.K.A. SANTA CLAUSE.
The Mapuche people of South America and residents of Hawaii are more likely to SEE LANDSCAPES AND VOLCANOES, whereas NDEs in Thailand and India rarely involve landmarks, tunnels or light; for Tibetans, light features more heavily, as do illusions of reincarnation. Europeans and North Americans often visualize beautiful gardens; intriguingly, the Kalai of Melanesia are more inclined to SEE AN INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD OF FACTORIES. An NDEr’s subjective experiences can be attributed to many factors: THE NDEr's PSYCHOLOGY, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, BACKGROUND, ETC. - NOT JUST CULTURE.
The terrain of heaven also varies wildly - from gardens, forests, or CATTLE FILLED PASTURES in some accounts, to clouds, COMPUTER ROOMS, or castles in others. A TEXAN SAW BARBED WIRE FENCES IN THE AFTERLIFE; Micronesians describe large, noisy CITIES WITH CARS AND SKYSCRAPERS.
This is a wonder. Is the hereafter actually mining, and refining in factories, the materials needed to build castles, cars, barbed wire fences, computers, and skyscrapers? Is the hereafter developing the tools and machinery needed to manufacture? Where is the hereafter getting the raw materials and tools needed to manufacture and construct those cubes, cages, and rooms in hell that some claim? And, exactly which of the variety of hells do you actually go to? The Christian one? Hindu? Buddhist? Spiritualist? Muslim? Strangely, the answer seems to be whichever one the experiencer has been exposed to. Thai afterlife voyagers regularly claim to encounter lord Yama and Yamatoots, and being sentenced for butchering and eating chickens. And what fuel do those spiritual cars run on? Wouldn't the hereafter then require waste disposal and a sewage system as well?
Even in her rather homogenous western European clientele, Kübler-Ross could see the effects of early enculturation: “I never encountered a Protestant child who saw the Virgin Mary in his last minutes, yet she was perceived by many Catholic children.”
But there also are some hard-to-explain differences, Melvin Morse says. Whereas American near-death survivors are typically sent back by God because “it’s not your time yet,” INDIA'S AFTERLIFE VISITORS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE TOLD THERE WAS A “CLERICAL ERROR.”
Even more curious: SOMETIMES THE BEING OF LIGHT IS ELVIS PRESLEY. Moody has chronicled at least two such sightings.
Yet the evidence for near-death paranormal powers remains shaky at best. TWO STUDIES HAVE FOUND THAT PATIENTS’ “OUT OF BODY” ACCOUNTS OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE OPERATING ROOM WERE WRONG. So were the 1988 Armageddon forecasts hyped by Ring and others.
Michael Sabom, however, offers a compromise stance: He rejects the idea that they provide glimpses of a heaven or hell. "I’m not saying these people didn’t experience something odd. But I am saying that we should take it with a grain of salt, because IF ANECDOTES MEET YOUR STANDARD FOR WHAT QUALIFIES AS EVIDENCE, then you should probably start buying tin foil and food buckets, because THERE ARE JUST AS MANY PEOPLE WHO REPORT SEEING REPTILIANS AND WHO HAVE BEEN ABDUCTED BY ALIENS."
But what about veridical NDEs - near-death experiences in which the person supposedly sees something they couldn’t otherwise have known while ‘flat-lining’ and others are able to verify that what they saw is indeed correct. The most notorious example of this is Maria’s shoe. A lady named Maria reportedly left her body, floated around and saw a shoe on a ledge outside her hospital window, that she ‘couldn’t have possibly seen.’ Her critical care provider, Kimberly Clark, looked outside and saw the shoe, just as described. BUT WHEN RESEARCHERS TRIED TO TRACK DOWN MARIA TO CONFIRM CLARK'S STORY, THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO FIND ANY SUCH PERSON OR ANYONE ELSE TO CORROBORATE THE ACCOUNT. And when they placed a shoe on the ledge, it was clearly visible from the hospital room, PROVING CLARK HAD EXAGGERATED AT LEAST PART OF THE STORY. Here’s the topper. There is no record of Maria being in that hospital.
Sixty years ago, Dr. Wilder Penfield, a neurosurgeon, poked around the right temporal lobe of some epileptic patients and discovered that they would hear heavenly music, relive their pasts in 3D, and have out-of-body visions. Similar experiments continue.
There’s growing evidence that the temporal lobe plays a huge role in creating NDEs. When patients had their brains scanned after an NDE, it was discovered that they had increased levels of temporal lobe activity compared with those in a control group. That could help explain why only a small percentage of people who flat line have NDEs. When Dr. Olaf Blanke implanted electrodes into the brains of patients, HE WAS ABLE TO TRIGGER SUPERNATURAL AND OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES BY STIMULATING THE TEMPORAL PARIETAL JUNCTION.