Good point. However, I think that the question isn't whether or not you can "lose," "earn" or "sustain" something. The question is whether or not you can abandon, forsake or leave your part of this new covenant. A covenant, after all, is a binding agreement made between two or more parties. It's like a marriage covenant between a husband and wife. This is why God hates divorce. In terms of covenants, God's part of a covenant is ETERNAL. He will not forsake his part. He will always extend his part to those he enters into covenant with. Still, the question is whether human beings who come to Christ are capable of abandoning the covenant. In the old covenant, it was entirely clear that they could -- and God's elect (i.e., the "Chosen People") did quite a few times (which ultimately led to captivity). Early on, it happened at Peor just before God's people entered the Promised Land. Balaam (that "prophet-for-hire") taught a foreign king that God could not pour out wrath upon his people UNLESS they had forsaken the covenant. So, the king of the Amorites sent women to entice many of the Israelites to forsake the covenant by engaging in immorality and idolatry. The wrath of God -- via a plague -- ensued. Many thousands headed to the Promised Land died. However, that was under the OLD covenant. The question today is whether or not there is responsibility of believers in the NEW covenant. What must we do to be a part of this new covenant? Obviously, we must believe in Christ Jesus. By the cross, ALL PEOPLE are all drawn to Christ Jesus (John 12:32-33). However, it is not enough to simply believe (because even the demons believe...and tremble) but to have unwavering faith in Christ. After all, the writer of Hebrews said, "And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must BELIEVE THAT HE EXISTS and that HE REWARDS THOSE WHO SEEK HIM" (Hebrews 11:6 ESV). That word "seek" is translated as "diligently seek" in the KJV and "earnestly seek" in the NIV. The Greek verb (ekzēteō) differs from other more prevalent word for of "seek" (i.e., "zēteō") because this "ek" prefix conveys earnestness and diligence. Moreover, the word is a verb in the form of a present participle. It's not that you once sought him...but that you (presently) diligently seek him. Is it possible for someone to ever STOP believing and/or seeking God? In the end, the New Testament teaches that unbelievers cannot enter the Kingdom of God. We also know that sin is always at the door -- and humans are incapable of being "sinless" while living in this earthly flesh. It is just as true now as it was under an old covenant in which sacrifices for sin were a regular part of the life of God's people. However, we have an eternal atonement made for our sins by Christ's sacrifice. So, that promise of atonement is ETERNAL. However, this still begs the question for whether someone can abandon/forsake/leave the covenant (the same Hebrew word is used for this concept in the old testament). Can someone who once believed wholeheartedly in Christ ever stop believing? Can someone who was devoted to seeking the Lord ever stop seeking?
You don't sustain it, Jesus does. He continually intercedes on our behalf. Once you understand the blood covenant from the ancient near East practises you'll know why it won't make sense to try and earn something once the sacrifice has already been offered.
Because the Holy Spirit has come into to guide you into the ways of righteousness. Zechariah 4:6 So he answered and said to me: “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
This is crazy! I am the guy who asked this question back in 2016!!! This was 8 years ago and someone just told me they saw me on this video. I was less then two years into the faith and going to a false church and apologetics helped me expose it. The church I was at was a new apostolic church with female Pastors that didn’t confront sin yet preached we are immutable to it. Now I am a graduate of many biblical studies and go to an expository church in a middle school with no light shows or smoke machines and we love the word of God! My question was sincere because I was at war with my church and what was really true. Thank you men! I still follow Dr Frank Turek and prescribe his book “correct, not politically correct” for all parents struggling with their children in the alphabet religion influence. God bless you all and hope this question seals the deal you CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION BUT YOU CAN LOSE YOUR FELLOWSHIP!
Thank you for commenting and updating! That is so awesome! I’m so glad to hear it!!! Just wanted to add, you can also forfeit rewards and inheritances, but didn’t want to come off all negative sounding without thanking you for your comment brother!!!
Agreed 100% that once saved always saved. It's the how that bothers me.? Asking Jesus into your heart is not salvation. Go with me to what Paul said. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2 verse 8 to 9. Asking Jesus to come into your heart is works.
@@vanessaG275 Asking Jesus to come into your heart is an act of faith. James says, faith without works is dead. You have to do something with your faith. The works Paul was addressing was the works of the Levitical law. I call it the religious law. Paul continues to correct Jewish Christians that were constantly trying to go back to the religious law. That is why he would say things like, by the works of the law no flesh will be justified. Jewish Christians would boast about getting gentile Christians to follow Jewish religious law, the chief of which was circumcission. Acts 15. But in another place Paul says, not the hearers of the law will be justified but the doers of the law will be justified. He is addressing two different laws. One law is foundational law while the other religious law. The two are seen in the Old Testament. One was specifically for the Jews and the other for all nations. God instructed Jonah to speak to the people of Nineveh that God was going to destroy the city. The people of Nineveh repented and was not destroyed. It was not because they were not keeping the Levitical that God was going to destroy the city but because they were not keeping foundational law. We can call this law foundational because if it is not being kept no other law can reverse the consequences of violating it. So what is foundational law? Jesus tells us in Matthew 19, “Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” Matthew 19:16-19 NKJV “Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 7:12 NKJV Jesus has the power of eternal life and He gives it to whom He wills. Here He tells us whom He wills, those who keep His word. Those who do not enter by the gate but climb up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Please pray for my brother Kenneth. He has been diagnosed with depression in the past but is now showing signs of schizophrenia. Please pray that God would heal him from all mental disorders, release him from any demonic opression and fill him with the Holy Spirit. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen!
Have him go on the Carnivore diet! Dr. Jordan Peterson, Dr. Ken Berry, Mikhayla Peterson all have miraculous testimonies with depression being healed with an all animal foods diet!🙌🏽✝️❤️ God created real food for us, man spoiled it and became physically and mentally ill…
I went through a similar situation with my wife, I know how scary this can be. I pray that your brother is delivered in the Mighty name of Jesus Christ!
Salvation is a completed act done by our creator, He saved us while we hated him and were enemies against him. He who began a good work will complete it.
@@justnii2056you’re comfortable saying that God didn’t actually save anyone through the cross of Jesus, but only made people “savable”, because ultimately God can’t save without man allowing Him to?…
You got a sure one way ticket to heaven brother. Go and live your life like pagans do. Eat, drink, women's, drugs have fun. Cause you don't have to do any works right? Satan has deceived the whole world with lies. There is no easy way to heaven.
@@baldbull4397that means if you do not have a changed life, your probably not saved. Not that you must provide works to be saved, unless that’s what you meant.
Praise God I am saved, even though I am truly a filthy, wretched sinner, who STILL screws up… sometimes on purpose. But Jesus is my Lord, and he is my center and I come back to Him and He has never abandoned me. Praise God.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
We are called to be faithful! Not by my own doing but by allowing God's grace to overpower the sin problem. It's about submission to God. Not about trying to overpower the problem of sin which we can't do on own own. I still battle the question about losing salvation. Seeing how easy it is to receive with a true repentant heart but some of those people still turn and run from God. Hebrews talks about it more than any book. Mainly Hebrews 6 4-6. Also we must never forget that there are requirements for our covenant with God. Simple. Not easy.
Once you are saved you are always saved, and that's a promise Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise We won't want to walk away either 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. we always sin, God knows that , so we cannot lose our Salvation from sinning "Jesus cannot deny himself, he remains faithful " once saved always saved
Hello. Those who have placed true faith in Christ and have been born of the Spirit have their spirits sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption of the purchased possession. If we continue to sin after that He will deliver us up to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. John 6:37 King James Version 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 1 Corinthians 3:15 King James Version 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1 corinthians 5 kjv 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 corinthians 11 kjv 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. God bless
Once saved, always saved is contradicted by multiple passages in the New Testament. On the one hand, I have seen people who believe that doctrine but work like they don't. On the other hand, I have seen people who do not believe that doctrine but behave like they do. Jesus used the parable of the two brothers to emphasize that obedience is essential. The parable of the sower speaks of those who believe but do not last. Jesus also said, "He who endures to the end will be saved." (Matthew 10:22, 24:13, and Mark 13:13). There are many other passages that emphasize obedience, including passages written by the Apostle Paul. We need to take all of the passages that touch on this subject -- especially those where Jesus is doing the teaching.
I came across a very interesting view which pointed out that we are no longer slaves to sin and that the law has no dominion over us. The Law actually creates the passion for sin and Jesus died to liberate us from the same. You are either saved by grace or by words. Can't do both. I'll add though that once you have been saved by grace, you are also empowered to forsake your sin and adherence to the Holy Spirit is important. He is a better guide than the letter of the law. If you truly believe hmHe will reveal to you even the deep things of God. We are encouraged to not grieve Him. He literally points us back to Christ in whom we are saved. So i guess once you shut yourself or mind from His direction then you can nolonger continue having faith and that messes your salvation up! Just thinking.
Dawebster21 You're right, I stand with you. I know many " Christians" that called themselves believers, but do the opposite of the word of God. But they believe with all their heart that they're saved.
Hebrews ch.10 tells us that by one offering, we are perfected forever. “Forever” is a pretty strong word to use that should put any doubts to rest. Once you are saved, you are saved for good.
2 Peter 1:10-11 KJV Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure... Gal. 5:1-5), be "cut off" from salvation (Rom. 11:18-22), have their names removed from the Lamb's Book of Life (Rev. 22:19), by committing certain sins and not repenting of them (cf. Eph. 5: 3-5; 1Cor. 6:9; Gal. 5:19, Rev. 21:6-8). Salvation is sure through Jesus but all because we say a prayer and believe in God is not enough.
@@jareddevine8813read the next 2 verses in 1 Cor. 6: “and that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” The Corinthians were carnal Christians. Paul called them believers even though they were living these sinful lifestyles. He’s reminding them that they now have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them and are no longer judged by their sinful works. That’s how God used to see them. Keep reading in verse 12. Just because they have freedom in Christ doesn’t mean they can live however they want. They should live for Christ now and confirm their calling, which is what you quoted in 1 Peter. It doesn’t mean we can lose salvation once we have it, because we got it as a free gift and received it by believing. We can’t keep it by doing good works (Paul condemns this in Galatians). Justification positionally before God is always by grace through faith in Christ. Never by works, because if it was, it’s no longer grace.
I have yet to see anyone who believes in eternal security do a verse by verse exegesis of the book of hebrews. It would be helpful because taken at face value, you can definitely lose something that sounds like our salvation
Another strong argument for salvation assurance is additionally in Hebrews 10, and sadly, that passage has been used to scare people. In 10:26-29, instead of reading this dire warning in context, preachers teach this is proof of salvation loss. If one "goes on sinning willfully" is defined within a few verses. "ANYONE who has set aside the law of Moses dies...how much severed punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God...( in other words who HAS NOT RECEIVED the final offering that forever perfects those who trust in Jesus, the Lamb of God). Misunderstandings of this and other passages plagued me for years. But thank God, I have found peace through proper discernment.
The greater question that seems to never get asked or answered is, "can you walk away from your salvation". I don't believe we can lose our salvation, but I also believe we have free will. This is a question not an argument.
Born again then become un born again redeemed by jesus christ then un redeemed by jesus christ, ,THINK ABOUT IT, osas is in the DNA OF GOD PERIOD AND THAT LAST FOR EVER LASTING JOHN CH 3 VS 16 workes for salvation is spit out time from Jesus Christ
@@theodoreritola7641 Judges 16:20 and 1 Samuel 16:14 say that "the Spiirit departed..." Samson and Saul respectively. Are they eternally saved? They had the Holy Spirit and then it departed from them as they were being disobedient to God's commands.
@@ShepherdMinistry Can you answer me what happens to us when the Holy Spirit departs us? As the examples of Samson (Judges 16:20) and Saul (1 Samuel 16:14). David cried out in Ps 51:11, "Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me."
@@treilers666visionI suggest you read the first verse of James.. James 1:1 James A servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad and who are the twelve tribes the twelve tribes of Israel.. The book of James is written to the Jews not to us lean had to rightly dividing the word of truth.. In 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth.. In Ephesians 28-8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of God 9 Not by works lest any man should boast we are not saved by our good works we are saved by grace though faith in what Jesus Christ did on the cross for our sins
The Holy Spirit seems to make it pretty clear for us... 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
@@ShepherdMinistry 1 Cor 15:1 Now I would remind you, BROTHERS, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you-unless you believed in vain. Heb 3:12-14 Take care, BROTHERS(Christians), lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. (notice: the deceitfulness of sin causing those to fall away from the living God.) You're teaching a false gospel and humanism, "If it were up to us we would miss it up" lol No my friend, as believers we have a responsibility to live out our salvation, proving that indeed we are followers of Christ. Faith and trust is not a mind exercise. You cannot believe or have faith in a God whom you do not obey.
@@ShepherdMinistry Rev. 1-5, Matt. 18:21-35 you can't lose salvation, you can throw it away or God can take it from you because you chose to turn from Him.
“Some will depart from the faith” doesn’t mean depart from (lose) their eternal salvation. It means they once believed the gospel of grace (THE faith), but became deceived by false doctrine and no longer believe that Christ ALONE obtained our redemption, but that they must work to remain saved. They’re still saved, because they’ve been born of God and are sealed with the Spirit unto redemption, but were carried off by winds of doctrine, which are not the true faith.
The people who Jesus said depart from me, I never knew you were all standing on their works. We did this and that for you. You are not saved by works but by faith in Jesus.
If or when you become “…not saved by works but by faith in Jesus,” is the same free will used to believe and receive salvation disabled if or when you decide to reject what you initially accepted? To simplify: are you then forced to be happy in a heaven you no longer are interested in? I believe you hold the power of compliance and agency, it’s just that we don’t deserve what Jesus gives.
@@roba7737 VERSES THAT SAY WE NEED WORKS, TOO, TO BE SAVED/REMAIN SAVED Luke 6:37 [37]Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: John 5:29 [29]And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 15:6 [6]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 3:3,5 [3]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [5]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Matthew 18:3 [3]And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. James 1:21 [21]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. John 12:48-50 [48]He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. [49]For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. [50]And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Matthew 7:21 [21]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. John 8:51 [51]Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Romans 10:9 [9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Hebrews 10:26-27 [26]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Romans 2:6-10 [6]Who will render to every man according to his deeds: [7]To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: [8]But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, [9]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; [10]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Hebrews 12:25 [25]See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Revelation 22:12,14-15 [12]And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. [14]Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. [15]For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
@@roba7737 More verses showing we need works and more to be saved or remain saved Matthew 6:14-15 [14]For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15]But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Romans 10:9 [9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Matthew 25:34-36 [34]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: [35]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: [36]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 1 Timothy 6:12,18-19 [12]Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. [18]That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; [19]Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. 2 Peter 1:5-8,10 [5]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [8]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [10]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: FOR IF YE DO THESE THINGS, YE SHALL NEVER FALL: 2 Peter 1:11 [11]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. James 2:14-17,24 [14]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? [15]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, [16]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? [17]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [24]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. James 5:15,19-20 [15]And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. [19]Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; [20]Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. 1 Timothy 4:1,8-10 [1]Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [8]For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. [9]This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. [10]For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. Hebrews 6:10-12 [10]For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. [11]And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: [12]That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises. 1 Peter 4:8 [8]And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
The question isn't whether or not you can "lose" something. The question is whether or not you can abandon, forsake or leave your part of this new covenant. A covenant, after all, is a binding agreement made between two or more parties. It's like a marriage covenant between a husband and wife. God's part of that covenant is ETERNAL. He will not forsake his part. The question is whether human beings who come to Christ are capable of abandoning the covenant. In the old covenant, it was entirely clear that they could -- and God's elect (i.e., the "Chosen People") did quite a few times (which ultimately led to captivity). Early on, it happened at Peor just before God's people entered the Promised Land. Balaam taught the foreign king that God could not pour out wrath upon his people UNLESS they had forsaken the covenant. So, the king of the Amorites sent women who engaged in immorality and idolatry with many of the Israelites. The wrath of God -- via a plague -- ensued. Now, the question is whether or not there is responsibility of believers in the NEW covenant. To be a part of this new covenant, we must believe in Christ Jesus. However, it is not enough to simply believe (because even the demons believe...and tremble) but have unwavering faith in Christ. After all, the writer of Hebrews said, "And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must BELIEVE THAT HE EXISTS and that HE REWARDS THOSE WHO SEEK HIM" (Hebrews 11:6 ESV). Is it possible for someone to ever STOP believing and/or seeking God? In the end, the New Testament teaches that unbelievers cannot enter the Kingdom of God. We also know that sin is always at the door -- and humans are incapable of being "sinless" while living in this earthly flesh. It is just as true now as it was under an old covenant in which sacrifices for sin were a regular part of the life of God's people. However, we have an eternal atonement made for our sins by Christ's sacrifice. So, that promise of atonement is ETERNAL. However, this still begs the question for whether someone can abandon/forsake/leave the covenant (the same Hebrew word is used for this concept in the old testament). Can someone who once believed wholeheartedly in Christ ever stop believing? Can someone who was devoted to seeking the Lord ever stop seeking?
I agree with the panel's response. Those who supposedly "abandon" their faith never were truly saved to begin with. Sure, outwardly they may have looked, talked, and acted the part.... but when the heart is transformed by the Holy Spirit, are we saying he just didn't do a good enough job on some people? God forbid we should ever say the Holy Spirit's work is not sufficient! This goes back the the parable of the sower and the four types of soil. Two of the four will produce the outward appearance of salvation (i.e. a beautiful plant springs up quickly), but when the worries of the world or the scorching heat of persecution arise, their outward works shrivel up and die. That's why when former so-called "Christians" say they've deconstructed their faith, I don't think they really mean it. They likely never believed at all, but for reasons they found convenient, they pretended to be Christian, possibly even deceiving themselves about their sincerity for a time. I've seen people do this in many other areas of life. There's no reason to believe that we can't deceive ourselves about faith. How could a person who truly understand how lost he/she is and trusts in Christ's mercy as the only solution ever say... "Nah, that's not for me." Either one of two things happened: they never truly understood how lost they are (lacked true conviction, and so eventually turn back to self for answers) or they were convicted and fell into despair (never truly regenerated).
@@sidwhiting665even a person who truly understands how lost they are l, still have the capacity to fall in unbelief. Ive seen and heard many who truly believed and was swayed by other reasoning or circumstances. Apostasy is Real thing, that’s why Paul warned the gentile in Romans 11 that you too can be cut off from the branch if you stop believing just the like Israel. Gods part is true in Salvation, it’s finished and done. But man has to receive and Man can abandon the gift he was given.
@@sidwhiting665 yeah I would say if someone says they were a Christian and now isn't a Christian I truly believe they never actually believed wholeheartedly in the first place, you can't tell me someone is actually born again, understands and knows that's Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Knows that we're saved by grace through faith, and also knows that if it weren't for Jesus we would have to pay the penalty for our sins all by ourselves, Would ever actually want to give up their relationship and salvation with God and say "I don't want to accept Gods free gift anymore" and ultimately would want to rather accept hell instead of heaven after "believing" in Jesus and having the holy Spirit. As a believer I literally couldn't imagine forfeiting my salvation even when I never deserved it in the first place glory be to God the father for sending his son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins even when I was a sinner Amen❤️❤️
@@jayguison480 I hear what you're saying and am familiar with Paul's warning in Romans 11. That said, I'm also familiar with John's statement in 1 John 2:19. They went out from us because they never were of us. If they were of us, they would have stayed with us. I'm also familiar with Ephesians 1:13-15 which says the Holy Spirit is our guarantee that once we believe we are sealed with his power and guaranteed to obtain the inheritance of life. And one of the most blessed passages, Romans 8:38-39 which says nothing in all creation can separate us from the love of God which is ours in Christ. I'm not sure which passages you're relying on explicitely. Romans 11 also describes how God's call is "irrevocable", suggesting it cannot be undone once it is done. that would make God's call ineffectual and subject to change. This is where I believe we have to let Scripture interpret Scripture rather than relying on human logic. I've always understood Romans 11 to be about how the Gentiles as a group were extended the same grace as the Jews, that they too could now participate as part of God's chosen people. It's a call back to the OT concept that was exclusive to Israel, but now includes all peoples of all nations. It's a reminder not to rely on one's heritage or ancestry. I do not believe it pertains to individual believers who have been born again. If you wish to say how you came to your conclusion, I'd be interested to hear it.
@@sidwhiting665 This is my perspective as well. I've seen some of the work Christ has done in my life (not to mention the lives of others). There is no way I would EVER consider abandoning the faith. You'd have to kill me first. I agree with Peter in John 6:68 when he said “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." It's either Jesus or it's no one.
@@chad9455 hang in there and you will catch up one day once you have entered the rest Jesus Christ bought and paid for. Until then, try not to dig yourself a hole that's so deep you can't climb out of. God bless,
@@chad9455 Don't be to hard on yourself. Jesus already paid the FULL price, so simply walk and live in Christ, then relax and enjoy the life He has made available to you.
Is it possible to lose one's salvation? Read these verses: Matthew 24:24; Galatians 5:4; Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:38-39, Heb. 12:15; 2Pet. 2:20-22, 2Pet. 3:17-18; Rev. 2:5. Thus, the answer to the question is YES!
I think Hebrews 6:4-6, 2 Peter 2:17-18 and Revelation 2:4-5 are the strongest points against becoming apostate. In Hebrews 13:5(b) we read, 'God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you". Yes, God will never forsake us, but He gives us the free will to not only accept Jesus as our Savior but to also later reject Him.
@@davidward3991 I think his point wasn't to rationalize things with our own finite understanding. Those quotes are almost the same I always use to show to those who claim that a Christian can't commit apostasy... The Bible is full of warnings against this
@@davidward3991by your definition, Adam and Eve were stronger than God. Because though they were sinless and under the covering of God, God forsook them to the devil's deception. Don't use red herrings to make your point, use the Bible. And the Bible says no one will lose their salvation as long as THEY REMAIN IN THE VINE. John 15:1-6.
Galatians 6:8-9 [8]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [9]And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
I don't believe you can "lose" salvation, but you can give it up. We still have freewill. We can make the choice to follow the world. Ezekiel chapter 18 talks about that very topic. We have to consider the whole Bible rather than just bits and pieces.
@@mountainskyaerialphotograp3921… Yes, you can definitely choose to backslide and depart from salvation of your own free will. One can be saved and on their way to heaven and then choose to fall as the scripture says Judas did and end up in hell.
@@gregorylatta8159Hebrews 10:26-27 [26]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
The question I hear asked most often in Calvinist circles is, "How can I know that I am saved?" or stated another way, "What assurance do I have that I am saved?". Non-Calvinists never ask that question and I think there is a reason.
Calvinism takes away man’s free will. Therefore making God only able to save certain individuals which is disgusting. Jesus said if ANY man come after me let him take up his cross and follow me.
Calvinist or not, the humblest Christians are the ones who are the most astounded that God saved such sinners as they. God's electing love is so scandalous. Why me? We must continue asking that. God is so, so good.
@@BFM777who are we to decide who gets saved .. a sovereign God doesn’t need anyone’s permission to save whom he pleases out of PURE GRACE . Or do you not believe in a sovereign God ? What does he owe US ?
Is this 'Born Again?' “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation ; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” II Corinthians 5:17 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." - Matt 7:20 "Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples." - John 15:8 ------------ "… by their fruits ye shall know them." So the 'Symptoms' of being Born Again are 'bearing fruit?' "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." John 15:2 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." - Matt 7:19 So, "Fruits" are apparently pretty important." "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." - Matt 12:50 "Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." John 14:23,24 So someone actually 'Born Again' will be found DOING... the will and commandments of God..? So "Works" are part of what "Born Again" looks like? That's probably 'WHY...' James says, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." - James 2:26 Yea…, I'll bet he's trying to tell us something…. Our 'Salvation' is absolutely an act of Grace and cannot be earned. However, being "Born Again" as a "Child of God" comes with responsibilities. (A… "Child of 'GOD'...") and "a heart of flesh" that moves us to do what is right before the eyes of the Lord without further prompting and micro-managerial commands. "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; AND I WILL- NOT- BLOT OUT HIS NAME out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." - Rev 3:5 You can never cancel out one N.T. scripture with another, they are complimentary not contradictory. "Born Again? "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 These are the WORDS of Jesus Christ from His own lips : (… and He's 'blotting out names'.) 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." - Matt. 25:31-46 The Bible is written solely to the people who are going to hear and read it and have the heart to accept it - The Elect. "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." - John 12:40 The people the Lord is talking about BELIEVE… they are saved - but they are not. "21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matt 7:21-23 ---------------------------- "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1 Faith & Works do not contradict, 'works' are part of what "Born Again" looks like. "Worship in spirit and in truth." - John 4:24 No matter what 'deeper meanings' you believe you see in a scripture, and they go very deep, but they never contradict the face-value meaning of the verse(s) you are 'interpreting.' Let The Bible speak for itself - it never contradicts itself and Jesus Christ never subordinated HIS Word in His Gospels to Paul or anyone else… That would absolutely result in chaos. And it has. "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 20,21 That includes Churches, 'Scholars,' book writers and all of their conflicting doctrines and chaos without which there would be no "Christian Denominations." - 'Chaos.' "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 Let The 'Biblical Word' on the page speak for itself.
I can try to help explain it if I can hopefully. Paul is basically saying he’s always examining his self. Paying attention to how he is carrying himself walking in the Lords eyes and the eyes of others who he preaches to. Knowing that God has called you to bring souls to salvation but you refuse to accept salvation for your own life! It’s what we call a hypocrite pretty much. Someone who appears to be qualified, and seems to sound good and knows what’s right to say, but does not apply it to their own life. In their own life they have secret sins and a lifestyle of being unrepentant. It’s foolish and deceiving your own self. In a lot of cases these days, with so many of these false preachers, teachers and people it’s not even a secret! They live a double life so out in the open stevie wonder could see it! So basically it makes you a castaway: By definition unqualified or better yet disqualified to preach, teach or even spread the gospel. Simply because you have not even accepted salvation and truly believed in the gospel for your own life. Paul is saying when you do that you’re wasting your time. That’s why it is imperative that we take heed to 2 Corinthians 13:5 and 2 Peter 1:10-11. It can be very hard fighting the temptations of this world on a daily basis… But we have to! Some temptations we have to even flee from!! But we must do as the Lord says. And when we fall, we crawl right to God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ asking forgiveness. Listening and responding to the correction of the Holy Spirit! If we run the race with the attitude of that always being in the forefront of our minds and deeply imbedded in our hearts, it is VERY TRUE that you will Never lose your salvation! I minister this to myself first, as well as to you in Jesus’s name!
We have free will. We can break our part of our covenant with God. Its called divorcing God. Even though it's hard to walk completely away from God. He loves us so much he relentlessly chases us yet respects our free will.
WHAT ABOUT REDEMPTION ? AFTER JESUS CHRIST REDEEMS HIS OWN WILL JESUS LATER ,UN ..REDEEM THEM ? THINK ABOUT THAT PLEASE BE hounest with your self and my personal REDEEMER Jesus Christ
@@theodoreritola7641 Can you change citizenships? Jesus is currently seated on His throne reigning as King with "all authority in heaven and on the earth" (Mt 28:18). Those who love the King and obey His commands (Jn 14:15) have become His disciples and have entered His Kingdom. His Kingdom is characterized by righteousness, peace, joy, love, faithfulness, grace, mercy, and salvation. Salvation in found only in Him (Acts 4:12). Those who continue to remain in His Kingdom (by being obedient to Him), will receive eternal life on the Last Day. Those who return to love this present world more than loving Him and following His commands (i.e. changed citizenship from the Kingdom back to the Evil One's), will not receive salvation or eternal life on the Last Day. Remain in the King.
It's about obedience. "Only those who DO the will of my father" "if you love me you will obey" "thier belief did not save them because it was not mixed with faith" "they could not enter because they did not obey" we don't obey to be saved, we obey from love for Jesus.
The question is poorly framed. The question is not "Can I loose my salvation?", rather "Can I forfeit my salvation?" or "Can I break the New Testament/Covenant with God?"
CAN a REAL CHRISTIAN BE ..UN ..;.REDEEMED BY MY REDEEMER JESUS CHRIST ? I NEED YOUR ANSWER FAST SO YOU WILL STOP TRYING TO CALL JESYS CHRIST A LIAR IN JOHN CH 3 VS16, I say you will be to afraid
You are poorly framed! Haha. The question was answered correctly. And I think a lot of people will get some clarity to something I was very confused with when I asked it 8 years ago. You cannot walk with Jesus and deny Him. When you make Him King, there is no turning back. If you walk away from Jesus you were never of Him as 1 John makes clear. (1 John 2:19)
@@conservativefather5446 If the debate was about whether aliens existed, and someone showed you a verse in the Bible ( which doesn't exist , I'm making it up to make my point) that said " There is no such thing as an alien", you would have to conclude that based on that verse alone, there are no aliens. What if there were two verses that showed you that a person can fall away and when they do, they can't come back? I give you Hebrews ch 6 : vs 4-5 which says " It is IMPOSSIBLE for a person who has been enlightened, who has tasted of the heavenly gift, who has shared in the Holy Spirit, who has tasted of the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance..." There is no other way to explain this verse except to say that some people who have genuinely accepted Christ and lived a Christian life according to God's word, can decide to choose to walk away and reject what they had previously accepted...and there is no way back for them.
Jesus: Matthew 5: 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches [i]others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [j]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Luke 13: 23 And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.’ 1 John 2: 3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. Romans 2: 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress [e]for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned [f]without the Law will also perish [g]without the Law, and all who have sinned [h]under the Law will be judged [i]by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers [j]of the Law who are [k]just before God, but the doers [l]of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have [m]the Law do [n]instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having [o]the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. James 2: 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy [m]triumphs over judgment. 1 Peter 4: 17 For it is time for judgment to begin [l]with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, [m]what will become of the godless man and the sinner? 19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right. Philippians 2: 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Jesus: Revelation 3: 4 But you have a few [a]people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
Read the epistles and also of course what Jesus said. It appears that many will and many will not find salvation. Jesus said many will be surprised. One fallacy is to think we are saved, Jesus said we are on our way. It is a way, and a gate. A disciple journeys. Paul says on one instance, you ate nearer to your salvation. Indeed we are dependent, as Jesus said, abide in me, that is to say follow him, obey him, or be thrown away.
Then you were never saved in the first place. I struggle all the time with certain sins ,but I’m holding on to my salvation. If you enjoy the sin and there is no remorse you most likely weren’t saved in the first place. But if you are aware and remorseful you are definitely saved. Remember Lot he was declared a righteous man even tho in his righteousness he was tormented day and night. He still struggled.
James 5:19-20 tells us a saved soul can turn away. The victory there is turning them (Bretheren) back to God, saving a soul from death. Apostasy is real
Yes, the once saved always saved idea is used like an indulgence by some. They feel safe to do whatever they want because they believe they cannot lose salvation through rebellion. Rebellion and apostasy is found throughout the Bible. I think the Bible is abundantly clear on the matter.
Soul can, and is refering to physical life. Not all verses are about spiritual salvation. One can sin oneself to death in this life and still be saved.
That is only interpretation at best. Multiple translations like the KJV, ESV, and others even specifies saying saving their souls from death. Death of one’s soul is more than just physical.
@@antonkoivisto2999 You are being deceived. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 1 Jn 3:6. If you are not abiding in Christ you'll die. We have to be IN Him. It's possible to sin for a believer. But if you keeps on sinning that means you are getting away from Christ not abiding
Still looking for a satisfactory explanation of Hebrews 6. Every OSAS believer I have come across, has seemed to dance around this passage. It appears to me that you can lose your salvation, but only once. Would genuinely love a OSAS believer to exegete Hebrews for me 6 if you see it differently.
The whole books needs the treatment and the fact that it seems to not have been done is telling. Main reason why Luther wanted it gone. If anyone has a series taught by anyone, I would love it
Hebrews 6 is addressing the issue of false converts. They may have tasted some of the good things associated with genuine faith in God, such as fellowship time with believers, comfort from sorrows, and even material blessings.... but in the end they never were crucified to the flesh and raised again spiritually. They are rather the two types of soil in the Parable of the Sower: the rocky soil and the thorny soil. The Gospel showed some fruit in their lives, but they were never rooted deeply in the soil of Christ. When persecution and worldly troubles came, they shriveled up and died. This is particularly troubling, because as that passage says, "Hey, you KNEW everything you needed to know. You had the head knowledge about God. You even got some of the good things that come with following him... but in the end, you never really trusted him." There's no going back once you willfully, fully, utterly, and unrepentantly reject the things of God. The Good News is, like the Prodigal Son, the character of the Father is what matters, not how bad the son behaves. No, we should not sin. We should be, as Paul says in Romans, dead to sin and alive in Christ. But outwardly, we may sin repeatedly and stubbornly for many years before--as the parable says--remembering the good things of God. Then we return in repentance, and the Father is rich in mercy and love to forgive before we even formally ask. Hebrews is advanced theology, no doubt. But if we let Scripture interpret Scripture (always the best idea), there are far too many places where God gives assurance of a promise that isn't based on our efforts. Even in Hebrews 6, the latter half of the chapter is about how faithful God was to Abraham in spite of how many times Abraham sinned by rebelling against God. We have to be careful, lest we add in our works to the process of salvation. Works confirm our salvation and serve the kingdom. They do not earn it, not even one bit. Paul is clear on this.
You cannot pick one chapter or verse to discuss something so complex. What a reasonable believer does is try to reconcile verses all across the new testament. Jesus made the claims below in the "present tense". "Rejoice because your names are written in heaven". "I give them life everlasting and no man can snatch them out of my hand". Was Jesus lying or powerless to keep his promise? He alone has the power to save, sanctify and preserve us to the finish line. Peter adored His Savior yet he denied Jesus 3 times.....but Jesus sustained Him in prayer.
I needed to hear this discussion on losing your salvation ...for a long time and now I had the same question and appreciate that it is out here. Now I feel I can discern the appropriate answer.
1 Peter 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead..." It's called GRACE and MERCY..🎉❤😊
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Can someone willingly walk away from the Father, and leave the safety and security of His house?? Jesus tells the story of the father with 2 sons, the one rebelled and left. While He was out of the father's will and out of the father's house, the father declared him to be "LOST" and "DEAD" ... - Luke 15:24, 32 The Bible also clearly speaks of the falling away, believers departing from the faith in the last days. You cannot depart from something you were never a part of. I believe that God is holding me and that I am eternally secure in Him, however, I also believe that I need to abide with Him and stay in His house!!
In order to gain salvation, one has to accept, follow, believe and have faith in Jesus claiming him as the son of God. One must have faith to love God and love thy neighbours in faith in Jesus.
Paul said "If we deny Him, He will deny us" The apostle Paul knew that if anyone, even himself, would turn from Christ they would be lost. And he also says to the galatians that if they accepted the false Gospel, they were "fallen from grace" and "severed from Christ" Yes, a person can be saved and later be lost. That's what severed from Christ means. Let's take this warning to heart and be faithful to Christ until the end.
If you lose your Salvation, then you were never saved. Please tell me how could it be called saved. Where does it say that we can be saved two times. So then losing a persons Salvation they never have a chance again. I can assure you that my God when giving me a Gift will never be dishonorable and take it away.
I was born and raised catholic and have always had faith in God and Believed That Jesus was the son of God And died for our sins, in my mid to late 30s I worked with a Pastor at a job and really didn't like going to catholic church for many years and decided to go to his Christian church and listen to him preach cuz I was searching for a church a Christian church and went to many and didn't see a lot of good places I visited they were money driven, etc.I moved back to my hometown and went to church with my folks for them and not me cuz I don't like going to any church I can't bring my Bible to anyway I wasn't getting a good message and left and decided I don't believe in the catholic doctrine so we don't have too much of anything else in my town so I pray and call myself a Christian but never found a church, I know there are some great ones out there and also a lot deceiving ones as well. I don't think Going to Catholic school really has Is any influence on why I believe that I could be still unsaved I mean it could be but I went to Catholic school from first to sixth grade Only as a child And I know the Catholic doctrine says faith and works that's what they believe and I know Christians is grace But I try to be a good person all the time my girlfriend says I'm a wonderful person my daughter says I'm a wonderful dad but I'm always feeling like I can do better and better and that a lot of times I'm worthless or I should have been a better father and wasted some time and a lot of time actually I was on drugs in my 20s I was an alcoholic from the age of 11 to 26 And then never had a drink again and God saved me And let me tell you that's a story for another time but it is true And God did intervene! Because I never lost my faith ever since I was young I never blamed God for anything bad I might have been displeased sometimes but I never ever blamed him for anything I just kept praying always for years and years and years and really never got tired of it because I knew and always knew he is there and always has been there and is listening But the last prayer that I had left in me basically at my rock bottom I've asked the same thing over and over for him to help me and save me so I could quit drinking because the doctors didn't give me 6 months to live and my parents were out shopping for coffins believe it or not and I found it out years later and that's pretty sad but it's true But he did answer me on my last prayer I had the answers Of things that no one could possibly know there was no internet there was no cell phones Even if there was you wouldn't have known the things that I knew and then to find out that Everything was True and was there even the time was exactly correct of when I should Go somewhere and be there It's quite amazing story but haven't had a drink sense and that was Over 25 years ago, I don't know why he answered me but I believe he answered me because it was his time I mean if he's gonna do something for you or answer your prayer it's gonna be in his time not when I know that to be true But like I said I prayed and I prayed but never lost my faith and never was Mad about anything Or him So I know that he knows I'm a true believer, Anyway I have adhd so sorry to make this so long but I talk, talk, talk, My mind goes a 100 miles an hour. LOL Sorry I didn't mean to get off track that's what happens, I got it saying I don't think being raised Catholic has anything to do with why I feel the way that I feel I still feel like I'm just not good enough and and it God might reject me and it scares me and I'm frightened a lot by it and I pray a lot to be forgiven for my sins all the time And I don't really do nothing that bad I mean I still cuss and have that issue and I'm sure I have some bad thoughts But nothing too major I try to live my life as moral and as best as I can I used to cheat on my ex-wife when we were younger and I was a drunk and I would never do something like that now and I haven't I've been faithful to my new wife and we've only been together for 10 years but I would never ever jeopardize that I believe God gave us this gift and it is a gift from God to be married And we should all stay true and faithful to one another But something in the back of my mind or something deep down just bothers me all the time that I fear God And no I haven't murdered anybody or anything like that quite the contrary I try to help everyone as much as possible would give anyone the shirt off my back but I'm not the best person in the world I'm not perfect like any of us but I somehow seem to feel unworthy like I can lose My chance of going to heaven and I feel somehow that it's a chance because if I do bad enough things down here or keep repeating the same sins that he's gonna reject me And that really might have something to do with the way I was brought up Catholic, It just doesn't feel right that once you're saved you're always saved to me if you keep sinning And yes if you keep sending on purpose then that's not good and I get that Because a lot of times we don't try to quit sinning and keep doing it But I generally feel bad every single time that I do something bad and I try to stop like I said cussing or bad thoughts and things like that, It's just hard for me to believe that once saved always saved And that you can't be unsaved Once you are saved Because of the sins that I continue to do even if I'm not doing it on purpose , I'm not trying purposely to turn away from God Or fall away as far as I knowI but I still feel so bad about it... Any advice you could give me would be much appreciated , and I apologize for the long comment I just wanted to give you a little background
If we turn away Christ/God still holds onto us and we continue being saved forever. He may and likely will severely punish the one who falls away and the punishment could be as severe as DYING at an earlier time (The Sin Unto Death), but the individual remains saved….HOWEVER… that individual will very likely lose all of his blessings and rewards and as a result will be at the lowest of hierarchy in Heaven.
Yes in Jesus we are saved, but if we abandon him and then die in disbelief then i guess thats what we get, an eternity whithout him. God doesnt force you to love him.
Excellent explanation to the question. When scripture appears to contradict itself, its us that misunderstands the word of God. The bible verses the young man brought up are used often by people who want to refute eternal life and the security we have in Jesus' words. Either we believe Jesus, or we do not. Its very simple.
This scripture clarifies things perfectly_ [20]The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. [21]“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [22]None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. [23]Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live? [24]“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die. [25]“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? [26]When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. [27]Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. [28]Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [29]Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair? [30]“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. [31]Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? [32]For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” Ezekiel 18:20-32
Always thought that if we don't have to do anything to go to heaven, then we might not have to do anything to go to hell either. Seems there is no assurance but merely a hope that we are lucky.
@@BFM777 ”“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.“ John 6:44 NIV… no one decides or chooses to be saved .. no one is saved unless it’s GOD who brings you to him
Heb 10:26 ¶ For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, Heb 10:27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
That scripture is misquoted as usual. It is about false converts who walk away. They are going back into the law and animal sacrifices. You cannot lose your salvation. If you could who would have it.
Buy what about apostasy, Bart Erhman is a prime example. Went to Bible seminary, became a pastor, knows scripture. But for some reason turned away from the faith and now an atheist. What if a believer to save his own skin takes the mark of the beast to feed his family? What then? You cannot serve 2 Masters. In Revelations 22:19 it speaks of those who keep His commandments having access to the Holy City and the tree of Life. Tree of life is needed to sustain immortality is it not?
@@RichardM1366Read this then Hebrews 6:4-8 NKJV [4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. [7] For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; [8] but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. It's not referring to "false converts"!
The heart of the matter here is FAITH because it is through faith that one is saved by God'd grace. The question is can a believer who was saved by grace through his faith eventually lose his faith? Yes, because the kind of faith through which we are saved from eternal damnation is an ENDURING FAITH. Mat. 24:13. When one's faith is gone it is done by his own decision because God has given us freedom of choice. James. 1:12.The lose of one's salvation is just the consequence when one loses his faith, and genuine faith is countenanced by deeds. James. 2:20.
@@cassiebennet4262 Sure it is. Have you ever received a post card in the mail saying "come into a store and you will receive a free gift"? What would the store say if you called them and asked them to mail the free gift to you? They would say "No" because part of receiving the free gift is the condition that you come into the store. In Ex 19:5-6, 3 months after leaving Egypt as they were still wandering around in the desert, God told the Israelites that "IF you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, (THEN) you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." This is conditional. IF they obeyed Him as King, THEN they would be His Kingdom. Peter says this about the Church in 1 Peter 2:9. So we must obey King Jesus' commands in order to be in His Kingdom. If we stop loving Jesus and disobey His commands, then we are no longer part of His Kingdom.
@@cassiebennet4262 If you have a baby, you will receive a postcard in the mail saying "Come into the store for a free gift." What would the store tell you if you called them up and asked them to mail the free gift to you? They would tell you no because the free gift is conditional if you come into the store. As Acts 4:11-12 say, "there is salvation in no one else". Salvation is IN Jesus alone. If a person does not remain IN Jesus, then they no longer have salvation. How does a person remain IN Jesus? By loving Him and obeying His commands (Jn 14:15). Jesus is reigning as the King with "all authority in heaven and on the earth" (Mt 28:18) and those who obey His commands have entered into His Kingdom. If a person goes back to loving this world instead of following the King's commands, then they have left the Kingdom and are no longer found IN Him, but they are IN the world. If the person stays IN the Kingdom, they will continue to have salvation which, again, is found only IN Him.
Reading in context, it appears that the question is one of sorting the wheat from the chaff. Human beings are incredibly good at deceiving ourselves as to our own motives and intentions. I consider the Parable of the Sower: there are four kinds of soil that the seed of the Gospel falls on. Two of the four (shallow rocky soil and thorny soil) allow the plant to grow for a time. It may look GREAT outwardly, but it has not root in Christ. When persecutions or worldly worries come up, then those plants shrivel and die. Take for example many of the so-called Christian pastors, podcasters, and music artists that have fallen away in recent years. They may have had all the outward signs of salvation: leading a large church, writing amazing worship songs, giving solid Biblical teaching, but they themselves may never have been truly convicted, repented, and put their faith, hope, and trust in Christ. Odds are they probably thought they were sincere, at least for a time. As 1 John says, "They went out from us, because they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us." The lesson I learn is that looks can be very deceiving, even to the person who is putting on the deception. Enduring to the end is the confirmation that we are saved. The trick is... we don't know in this lifetime who will endure to the end. The confidence of the faithful is that we trust in God's word, that he WILL carry us through to the end. Even in our doubts, fears, and trembling.... we turn to him. It may take time, but eventually we turn back to him.
Great question. Matthew 24:13 talks about how true Christians endure to the end. I don't believe that verse is talking about people losing salvation. I believe it's talking about how true Christians endure to the end. I believe that verse is talking about how you can tell whether someone is truly saved. When someone becomes saved, God changes them to where they aren't slaves to sin anymore (they still sin, still have sin struggles, etc, but they aren't slaves to sin anymore), they will persevere until the end, they will endure to the end, they'll always be saved, etc. Christians do backslide at times, but Christians endure, persevere, etc to the end in the faith and aren't slaves to sin anymore. Matthew 7 talks about how there's a lot of people who say "Lord Lord" but when they die, God tells them to depart from him due to him never knowing them. That verse isn't talking about people losing their salvation. The point of that verse is not everyone that claims to be a Christian is a Christian, and that God is not fooled into thinking someone's a Christian when they're not. God knows who's a Christian and who isn't a Christian. There's a lot of people in this world that claim to be Christians that aren't Christians. Some people think they can fool God into thinking that they're a Christian when they're not a Christian. There is a lot of evidence in the Bible that proves people can't lose their salvation. 1 John 5:13 talks about how you can know for certain that you have eternal life. If you can know for certain that you have eternal life, that' s strong evidence how you can't lose your salvation. 1 John 2:19 talks about how there's no such thing as an ex-Christian. If there's no such thing as an ex-Christian, that implies how people can't lose their salvation.
@@jessicabattenfield5575Matthew was written to the Jews. Read the parable of the wheat and tares in Matt and compare with the other gospels. There are differences. It’s subtle but there. Matt addresses Israel in particular.
Are we not free moral agents before receiving salvation? Do we loose that freedom to choose after receiving salvation? Can we not still choose to reject Christ after we have been justified?
Losing one’s salvation is not dependent on God, but on us. What I mean is if someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, then they are “saved.” However, what if that same person later decides that they enjoy sin more or would rather spend eternity separated from God? Would God force this person into His presence against their will?
John, 3:3, Ephesians 2:8-9, every believer is going to continue to sin. Judging can be a tricky situation. But if there is absolutely no change in a person’s life after they claim to become a believer. Then most likely they’re not a believer to begin with. That’s one of the dangers of growing up in the church. You take part and all the church activities. You have an emotional experience on a Sunday morning or at a camp. Everyone else is going forward so you go forward the person in front pronounces you saved. the only problem is you’re not saved and you only had an emotional experience. Any person who is truly born again would never choose to leave their heavenly father and go to hell. True, out of all the hundreds of millions of people in heaven there won’t be one single person there because they were forced to be there. If they were there, it would be like hell to them.
I've heard you guys defend the morality argument in numerous videos, but this time just resonated so well with the blend of humor and the chemistry on stage hahaha i know it'll connect with atheist very effectively (have some friends in mind that I want to share that part with) so please clip that into a short! Thanks 🍻🙏🏾
Shalom aleichem (peace be unto you). Except the scripture was written in Greek and Hebrew not Latin or English. The Hebrew word is owlam, the Greek is aion, aionion or ainios, of which we have the English eon, eonion and eonios. The vulgate turned aion into aeternium then instead of eon made it eternal. Making this a non sequitor. Hebrew words are based on the root word and it's first appearance in scripture. What if some think they are saved when they are not, then they are convinced they cannot lose what they do not have, thinking they have and cannot lose what is not theirs. Better to ask are you really saved at all and how can you be sure, many are called and few chosen, the elect are chosen. But the many are not chosen, yet the many think they are because they were called. Even the chosen must be faithful, hence "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful." Paul says clearly to the Galatians KJV "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." NIV "For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace." To be cut off you must be attached. To fall away you must have once been close and ascended. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. "IF" you continue in goodness ....IF NOT /CUT OFF. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Because the carnal (flesh) mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Who reigns in your body the Lord or sin? Enmity means the state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something (an enemy). Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; You cannot serve 2 masters, you serve the one you choose to yield to, sin or grace? Disobedience is rebellion and witchcraft. Practice the acts of the flesh and you will not inherit the kingdom of God, do not let sin deceive you. You can depart from God (no he will never leave nor forsake us but we can freely leave at any time). So I EXHORT you HOLD FAST to the end and do not count the thing were by you are sealed as unholy!!! For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Sinning willfully as opposed to falling into sin, you are not repentant if you sin willfully, you chose to freely and willfully sin and turn the grace of God into lasciviousness, thereby denying the Lord who bought you with his blood. You can depart from the faith and many will in these last days by being deceived about false doctrines and will depart. God will not stop you if you depart, you are free to choose, but God loves you and did everything he could to make a way for you (the straight and narrow path) but if you choose the broad path to destruction you will have no one else to blame. Amen and Selah, Maranatha!!!
[20]The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. [21]“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [22]None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. [23]Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live? [24]“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die. [25]“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? [26]When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. [27]Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. [28]Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [29]Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair? [30]“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. [31]Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? [32]For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” Ezekiel 18:20-32
Can you die should be the question. Romans 8:12-13 (ESV) 12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Do you think Paul is talking about earthly death? It's about spiritual death. See what Jesus talk about Sardis Church . “ ‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead., Re 3:1.
Salvation ... is free & simple. But only God knows ... on Judgement Day ... whose names are written in the Book of Living. And Jesus clearly said there will be a falling away (loss of salvation) before He returns ... and ... clearly told believers 2000 years ago ... that you must always be ready ( keep the faith) ... for His return .... as you do not know the day or hour .. you die. Jesus just said you can lose your salvation ... by NOT ... being ready for His return ... and you will not join Him at the Wedding Feast.
Technically even if you fell away from your faith. You would be at fault and God never breaking his promise or seal because you decided to fall away. That would be on you. Just like the Israelites back in the Old Testament was in the promise and they sinned and was then outside of the promise. That falls on them falling away not on God not keeping his promise.
I would have to many passages to find them all but I suggest you start with John 15 v6 and Hebrews 6v6 It's possible to be erased from the book of life both in the OT and in the NT Psalms 69:28 & Revelation 3v5
I understand the arguments for security of salvation, as well as that at least some seem to have been elected, but that doesn’t stop the fact that there are Apostates. One cannot become an Apostate if they first were not saved. We are saved by grace through faith. Many give up the faith and thus lose the grace of salvation. After the Resurrection and living the millennial reign, Satan is let back out of the pit. He takes people who have been Resurrected by Christ and lived 1,000 years and causes them to give up their salvation by grace in abandoning their Faith. If you truly were once saved always saved, Paul wouldn’t talk about finishing the race until the end.
I HAVE A QUESTION 😁 (I look forward to the answer). If God gave us free will, then it means that we can choose whether to believe or not. If so, then we can also choose whether we want to KEEP ON believing or to STOP believing. So my question is "How come we can't lose our salvation?" If your answer is "Once we believe, we can't stop believing", then you're saying that all of the believers in Christ have lost their free will (turned into robots). Are we stuck in salvation? 🤔 Please give me an explanation 🙏🏼 May God bless us all ✌🏼
This is just my own perspective but the things I’ve seen and read over the years, the very rare times he spoke directly within my mind, those moments when his Word hits just right and you grapple a passage differently even though you’d read it before, the hints of his awesomeness or greatness that I briefly saw in the world or felt…no way I would ever give that up. It would be as unthinkable as ignoring a bottle of water after a walk in the desert or food after being shipwrecked at sea for weeks.
If salvation can be lost then most people won't be saved and Jesus talking about entering the narrow gate and few are the ones who wil be saved begins to make sense 😅😅
And that very same apostle you speak of states “I have fought a good fight. I have finished my course. I have KEPT the faith” so would Turek say that if Paul had not kept the faith he never had it to begin with? That’s ridiculous. This argument that you can’t lose salvation is a cop out for Protestants to not sound legalistic and it sounds nice to simply say as long as you confessed that Christ is Lord 20 years ago, you are saved. Then protestants say God elects us to be saved. Well in that case, why should anybody go out & evangelize? God is going to save who he elected anyways right? See how ridiculous that reasoning is. God chooses everybody to be saved & some reject that grace, which causes them to not be saved but God desires everybody to be saved. This argument that everybody who is elected to be saved is going to be saved is not found in scripture. That’s calvinism BS that cannot be backed up by scripture. I’m protestant but wow there are so many protestant beliefs that simply can’t be backed up by scripture…
I can't lose my gender, my skin color. I can't lose my American citizenship if I do nothing about it. I can't lose what I never had. The prodigal son probably came home more than once. I have. As long as my confidence is in Jesus, I'm not worried about it. The dad I knew loved me anyway.
Patrick, you cannot loose that you are a human being, but you can indeed loose your salvation. Those things you talk about are things you have intrinsically. You are not intrinsically saved therefore you cannot logically conclude you cannot loose salvation. It's a stupid analogy Pat. You didn't think that bad idea through, because you listen to pastors that teach once saved always saved lies. They tickle your ear and you love being told what you want to hear.
@@dman7668. And what kind of person counsels someone by calling their analogy stupid. Is this the unity Christ prayed for. Once saved always saved is not a doctrine critical to salvation, and Patrick has a right to his opinion without being talked down to.
Nice sounding rhetoric but yet Scripture clearly indicates, in multiple places, that we can. I wonder if the confusion doesn’t stem from the misconception that “Salvation” is a one time incident and not a changed life. One is not married simply because he or she said the words, “I do” on one particular day but because one faithfully keeps the commitment one’s entire lifetime until the end.
Question(s) about losing your salvation. 1. What does it take to lose it? We talking about a sin here and there or just basically deciding not to follow Christ anymore? I assume this is what is considered an apostate? By definition do we know that this only refers to those that were once saved? 2. If you can lose it, can you get it back?
The Greek word "Christ" is the same as the Hebrew word "Messiah" which means "the Anointed One". Anointed for what? Anointed to be a King. This is seen when the religious leaders brought Jesus before Pilate in Luke 23:2 (“We found this man misleading our nation and...saying that he himself is Christ, a king.”) So, every time you read or say the word "Christ" it implies that Jesus is "King", which He is as he is currently seated on His throne. Those who love Him and are obedient to His commands enter into/comprise His Kingdom which is spreading across the world. His Kingdom is one of righteousness, peace, joy, faithfulness, salvation, grace, and mercy, and it can never be shaken. Only the King has eternal life which He will reward to His faithful children on the Last Day. Can a person ever leave His Kingdom? Sure, by stop loving Him and being obedient to His commands, looking to the things of this world instead of trusting in Him alone.
Only those who endure to the end shall be saved. Anyone who puts their hand to the plough and looks back is not fit to enter into the Kingdom of God. Jesus Christ
The context is the 7year tribulation, not now. If ur there, then ur there because either u rejected Christ altogether or u never had a chance to except Him. Context can fix a lot of blunders.
@@aarondowler2466So you have to believe in a pretrib rapture in order to maintain a once-saved-always-saved theology? Just compare every verse used to argue pretrib with the ones describing the 2nd Coming; it's the same advent. Jesus isn't coming back, leaving again and then coming back again. Pretrib theology was only developed in the 1800s/propagated by obvious charlatans, whilst the early church understood that Jesus wasn't praying for them to be taken out of the world, but that they would remain firm in the faith. Also, there are a multitude of passages that clearly teach that one needs to abide in Christ through faithful obedience and a turning away from the things of this world. No one is sinless and salvation is through the finished work of the cross alone, but that work has to do with sanctification whereby one's works are the evidence of the fruits of salvation, i.e., the fruit of a branch grafted into the tree, and yes, branches can be cut off and cast into the fire.
Uh yes you can loose it. Because what didn't understand is salvation isn't just a free gift. It's also a reward. Nobody gets a reward for doing nothing.
Maintaining salvation is deoendent on what we do, not what Christ does. Jesus even ssys so in the bible. Stop with the idiotic once saved always saved heresy.
What you do is supposed to change as a result of what He did on the Cross. Romans 2:5-8 NASB2020 [5] But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, [6] who will repay each person according to his deeds: [7] to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life; [8] but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation. Repentance is a gift, just like most things. However, the caveat is that the double-minded person cannot RECEIVE ANYTHING FROM GOD, James 1:7,8. Everything a double minded person is a figment of his imagination. It has no substance. Purity of heart, righteousness, repentance... ALL a figment. ALL fake. ALL name-it-claim-it. Zero reality. Which is why this nation will probably be turned into Hell, unless, in the very least the Church repents.
We can’t lose our salvation because we can’t lose our Savior: “I WILL NEVER [under any circumstances] DESERT YOU [nor give you up nor leave you without support, nor will I in any degree leave you helpless], NOR WILL I FORSAKE or LET YOU DOWN or RELAX MY HOLD ON YOU [assuredly not]!” (Heb. 13:5b, Amplified Version, emphasis in original).
Amen Jesus said He will not lose not one. John 6:39 “This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.”
Jesus is always Lord (which means "owner", as in "landlord") before He is Savior. Try to find in the Bible where it says that he is "savior and lord" in that order. I'll help you out, it's not there. The Scripture always presents Jesus as "Lord and Savior" if those two are in close proximity to each other. A person can reject Jesus as Lord and follow after earthly things. If Jesus is no longer a person's Lord, then He is not the person's Savior any longer. And salvation is only found in Jesus.
@@ZeckArriaga To say otherwise is denying the power of God. Deny the power of human beings all day long but don’t deny the power of God, it’s why Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith not use. John 3:3 (AMP) “Jesus answered him, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless a person is born again [reborn from above-spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified], he cannot [ever] see and experience the kingdom of God.”
Because interpreting Scripture is subjective, I will state that, in my opinion, Scripture read in context, signals that it is possible to lose one's salvation.
Yeah God didn’t waste his time with warnings just for us to come to a conclusion that all is well just believe sit back and relax, Jesus said why do you call me Lord and don’t DO what I say. Many say Lord but don’t do the works that Jesus gives them, all his parables point to lazy half hearted phonies who will not be in his kingdom.
The Bible is not open to interpretation! You either understand what is written or you don't. Jesus even says multiple times "He who has ears, let him hear"; when you write something, do you leave it open for interpretation, or, are you trying to convey a particular message?
As with any statement of Scripture, taking this verse out of context leads to misinterpretation. The immediate context of Christ's remark is the state of the world immediately prior to His second coming (Matthew 24:14). The broader framework of His teaching is found in other lessons (John 5:24; 10:28-29). Those who survive the tribulation will be "saved" in the sense of being "spared," and will continue to live in the millennial kingdom. The concept that one could lose or walk away from eternal life is contrary to other teachings of both Christ and the apostles (1 John 3:14; 5:11-12).
If that is true, then it means that it is MY behavior that has saved me. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
That entire chapter is actually about what will happen to Israel, not Christians and the church. The context is Jesus taking jewish questions from His Jewish disciples about what will happen to Israel. Notice all the "jewish only" references Jesus uses in answering their question "What will be the sign of the end and of your coming?" : He mentions "the abomination of desolation", "the temple", "the sabbath", "the rooftops", " the "Judean countryside " and the "elect". He goes on to give us more info about who the "elect " are. He said "If those days weren't shortened, not even the elect would survive". This is a reference to Zechariah 13:8-9 which is about Israel during the Tribulation and it says... " In the whole land " , declares the Lord, "Two thirds will be struck down and perish yet one third shall remain in it. This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold." It is this "one third that shall remain" who Jesus is referring to as the "elect", and NOT the church.
Titus 3:5-7 “He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.” “This is the Spirit He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by His grace, we would become heirs with the hope of eternal life.”
To be bold enough to state that Judas was “never” even after knowing he must of spent so much intimate time in the presence of Jesus is wild to me. Adam was crafted by the finger of God and still fell to sin. Do we ever question if Adam was ever truly ever saved? God walked with Adam in the Garden, Jesus walked with Judas trough out Israel. Both fell short. Salvation is freely given but its our job to maintain it.
These guys need to become familiar with the MASSIVE amount of teaching from early Christian fathers AND the centuries of Christian dogma that pre-dates the Reformation. Eternal security (perseverance of the saints) was never taught. Ever. Yes, we can walk away from our relationship with Christ and His Church, to our eternal peril.
Wanna bet they believe in free will but of course if you get a free gift and you can abuse the gift giver and never lose it it seems they are fine with abusing the blood of the one who sanctified them. Setting the stage for the son of perdition imho
@@eddiesblacksmithingkjv9185 Is it? Please consider these Hebrews 10:29-31 ESV [29] How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant👉 by which he was sanctified,👈 and has outraged the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge 👉his people.”👈 [31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Please think on this more my friend. Not so you may live in fear, because we can have assurance, but that you nit be decieved by the decietfulness of sin. We have an enemy , we must not be ignorant of his schemes. Hebrews 3:12-13, 15 ESV [12] Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. [13] But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. [15] As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” Ephesians 5:5-6 ESV [5] For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. [6]👉 Let no one deceive you with empty words,👈for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Ezekiel 33:13, 17-18 ESV [13] Though I say to 👉the righteous👈 that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die. .....[17] “Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just,’ when it is their own way that is not just. [18] When👉 the righteous👈 turns from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it. Romans 2:9-11 ESV [9] There will be tribulation and distress 👉for every human being 👈who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, [10] but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. [11] 👉For God shows no partiality. 👈 Food for thought Thanks for sharing, God bless you friend
@@eddiesblacksmithingkjv9185 Jude 1:21 ESV [21] 👉keep yourselves👈 in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. John 15:9-10 ESV [9] As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you.👉 Abide in my love. [10] If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love,👈 just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 1 Timothy 4:16 ESV [16] Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing👉 you👈 will save both yourself and your hearers.
Should've asked them to defend 'once saved, always saved' in light of: Hebrews 6:4-6 NKJV For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
God cannot take away your salvation. You can withdraw it. It's up to us. We are saved if we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. The minute we reject Him (fall away), we reject our Him as our Lord, thus rejecting our salvation.
@@aaronharlow2137 Not a very comforting thought, is it? So ... what do you think? 1) Are you saved? 2) Is there anything in all the world--especially something you've never experienced before--that could cause you to lose your salvation? 3) If so, then what work must you do to keep your salvation, and is that a credit to you for having done it? "“ In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.” - Ephesians 1:13-14
The way I interpret this is that "falling away" is deciding to stop believing. To make a conscious decision to walk away from him and turn your back on him knowingly. We couldn't be good enough to gain salvation .... we aren't good enough to hold onto salvation either.. .no works are good enough. There would be no point for Jesus to die for our sins, if even after his sacrifice and accepting him, asking forgiveness and believing he is lord, you just lose it by being human. If you keep faith and love him, he never forsakes you. That's what I believe.
People don’t understand what happens at the point of salvation. You are a new creation. You are a child of God. Whoever is born of God overcomes the world.
I keep seeing this discussion / question, shouldn't it be better if we just try to be the best Christian we can everyday and produce more fruit and try to become hollier so that we can see the face of the Lord? Why keep thinking negative and not try to reach ahead as Paul did?
Ananius and Sapphira both had the Holy Spirit; yet they lost their salvation when they lied to Him and were struck down; remember? Also, remember, Judas Iscariot was saved at one stage and then he let greed get the better of him?
100%. People that you cannot lose salvation so tightly it’s just crazy to me it’s not biblical. I do believe often people were not really saved… a lot of scripture supports that. Scripture also explicitly reveals that people can turn away from no longer follow God. That does not mean never followed him. There are thousands of examples, but a very clear and simple one is in the second when he says that it is better to have never known the way of righteousness to have known it and turn from it. is it better to have never known if you are still going to be with the Lord for eternity? No, I don’t need you lose salvation ever by accident. often people never really knew the Lord walking that path. But any person who says has a free will, and could choose stop following God. Even the angels and Satan turned from God. Solomon turned from God. I also think to 100% assume that Judas was not saved, is a little foolish. just because he went to hell as the scripture says doesn’t mean that he didn’t believe in Jesus with him. Maybe he didn’t actually know him. think we can say that certainty:
A born again Christian can NOT THROW THERE REDEMPTION A WAY U FOOLOR BE ,,un,, born again And Jesus Christ will never ,, un.. redeeem his own never .. osas.. is the DNA OF JEUSUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD MY PERSONAL REDEEMER
The devil wouldn't continue to temp us after we become Christians if there wasn't a chance that he could get us back. Back sliding is surely not recommended, but possible. We have to ask God every day to help us lead as holy of a life as we can, and to help us not commit sin. Unfortunately we will fall short here and there, but He will forgive us when we ask Him to, and He will help us to do better in the future if we allow Him to.
Salvation comes when you trust in Christ. Acts 16:30-31 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-you and your household.”
God has given us a freewill so that we can reciprocate love back to Him. God will never leave us and no one can take our salvation away from us, BUT we can walk away from our salvation. We must be followers of Jesus Christ. Be faithful unto death and you will receive a crown of life. I have witnessed Christians walk away from their faith on multiple occasions.
Signed, Sealed, Delivered we’re in Christ. Ephesians 1:13🕊️ “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
thats not in the Bible. Read the parable of the Sower and the seed. Thats the answer. These are all verses ppl you to promote their pro or against eternal security but all of them are to be understood with one question.......which soil is this? Matthew 24:13 John 15:6 Romans 11:17-22 Galatians 5:4 John 6:37-40, 47 John 8 John 10 John 10:27-29 John 14:16-17 Romans 8:38 Romans 10:9 Romans 11:29 Ephesians 1:12-14 Ephesians 4:30 Philippians 1:16 Colossians 3:3 1 Peter 1:3-5 1 Peter 1:23 1 John 5:1,13 Jude 1:24-25 Hebrews 3:12 Hebrews 6:1-8 Hebrews 10:26-27 1 Timothy 1:19 1 Timothy 4:1 1 Timothy 5:15 2 Timothy 2:12 2 Timothy 4:3-10 James 5:19-29 1 John 1:7 II Peter 3:1-18 Jude 1:5 Jude 1:12
You are wrong, if salvation could be lost it wouldn't be salvation, it would be probation, what amount of sin would cause someone to lose salvation ? There is no guidelines, one sin would qualify loss... Now what ? Do you have the ability to remove yourself from God's hand ? If you somehow had the ability would you want to be removed ? Saved equals sealed ! Can't undo what God has done.
Well said - King David was a man after God's own heart and look at the mess He made. Thats why Jesus warned us to be on guard because the devil is a roaring lion. Anyone working hard to earn their salvation is being religious.
The folks in Matt that Jesus never knew did not trust on Him alone for salvation. They trusted in him + sin management. The demons believe God exists but do not believe unto Him for salvation.
Because the demons can't believe unto Him for salvation. They knew Him before humans did, and they choose to rebel, their damnation was sealed from that moment, no salvation/forgiviness for them ever.
True but to be fair demons can never get salvation anyway. Romans 5 and the first few chapters of Hebrews shows clearly that angels cannot partake in the substitutionary atonement.
Is this 'Born Again?' “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation ; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” II Corinthians 5:17 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." - Matt 7:20 "Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples." - John 15:8 ------------ "… by their fruits ye shall know them." So the 'Symptoms' of being Born Again are 'bearing fruit?' "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." John 15:2 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." - Matt 7:19 So, "Fruits" are apparently pretty important." "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." - Matt 12:50 "Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." John 14:23,24 So someone actually 'Born Again' will be found DOING... the will and commandments of God..? So "Works" are part of what "Born Again" looks like? That's probably 'WHY...' James says, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." - James 2:26 Yea…, I'll bet he's trying to tell us something…. Our 'Salvation' is absolutely an act of Grace and cannot be earned. However, being "Born Again" as a "Child of God" comes with responsibilities. (A… "Child of 'GOD'...") and "a heart of flesh" that moves us to do what is right before the eyes of the Lord without further prompting and micro-managerial commands. "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; AND I WILL- NOT- BLOT OUT HIS NAME out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." - Rev 3:5 You can never cancel out one N.T. scripture with another, they are complimentary not contradictory. "Born Again? "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 These are the WORDS of Jesus Christ from His own lips : (… and He's 'blotting out names'.) 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." - Matt. 25:31-46 The Bible is written solely to the people who are going to hear and read it and have the heart to accept it - The Elect. "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." - John 12:40 The people the Lord is talking about BELIEVE… they are saved - but they are not. "21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matt 7:21-23 ---------------------------- "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1 Faith & Works do not contradict, 'works' are part of what "Born Again" looks like. "Worship in spirit and in truth." - John 4:24 No matter what 'deeper meanings' you believe you see in a scripture, and they go very deep, but they never contradict the face-value meaning of the verse(s) you are 'interpreting.' Let The Bible speak for itself - it never contradicts itself and Jesus Christ never subordinated HIS Word in His Gospels to Paul or anyone else… That would absolutely result in chaos. And it has. "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 20,21 That includes Churches, 'Scholars,' book writers and all of their conflicting doctrines and chaos without which there would be no "Christian Denominations." - 'Chaos.' "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 Let The 'Biblical Word' on the page speak for itself.
Therefore knowing the goodness and the severity of God, on those that fell severity, but toward thee goodness, if thou continue in thy goodness, otherwise thou also shall be cut off. The good news is that you can be grafted back into the vine. Don’t be fooled by these false teachers. You betray the Lord if you go back to your sin!
I tend to ask similar questions. It is often said that salvation is a gift. But can't a gift be rejected? For instance, if someone were to give me a birthday gift and I had a falling out with the giver, I might reject the gift. Not that I would do that, but it's just an analogy.
@@japexican007 He won’t lose you, but you can walk away. And seals can be broken. So from a purely logical point of view those passages don’t contradict the nearly 85 passages that say or convey you can forsake your salvation.
If a person loses his/her's salvation the John 3:16 would not be true. " For God so love the world he sent his only begotten Son, that who so ever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
@manaomialiusamoa6813 Yeah, John 3:16 qouting ignores that this is an omission. It was already mentioned in John's gospel that one must be water baptized in order to gain this new everlasting life. So to read this passage but ignore the context of it is where heresies spread like the idea that all you gotta do is "believe and you are good". One must be baptized *water baptism* to be saved. If you had the gutts to research Christianity on Google you will learn that's exactly how Christians always understood it pre reformation disaster.
Please get saved, God won’t save anyone who thinks they have to give up all their sins in order to be saved, he will not share his glory with you, it’s all about him, his sacrifice in the cross, his death and resurrection
Eternal life alone says it. If you have eternal life then that means it's eternal. It doesn't say temporary eternal life it says eternal eternal means never ending.
This scripture clarifies things perfectly_ [20]The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. [21]“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [22]None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. [23]Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live? [24]“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die. [25]“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? [26]When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. [27]Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. [28]Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [29]Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair? [30]“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. [31]Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? [32]For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” Ezekiel 18:20-32
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit. Who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance" (Hebrews 6:4,5,6)
If you're unworthy to earn salvation, then how could you possibly be worthy enough to sustain it?
Good point. However, I think that the question isn't whether or not you can "lose," "earn" or "sustain" something. The question is whether or not you can abandon, forsake or leave your part of this new covenant.
A covenant, after all, is a binding agreement made between two or more parties. It's like a marriage covenant between a husband and wife. This is why God hates divorce. In terms of covenants, God's part of a covenant is ETERNAL. He will not forsake his part. He will always extend his part to those he enters into covenant with.
Still, the question is whether human beings who come to Christ are capable of abandoning the covenant. In the old covenant, it was entirely clear that they could -- and God's elect (i.e., the "Chosen People") did quite a few times (which ultimately led to captivity).
Early on, it happened at Peor just before God's people entered the Promised Land. Balaam (that "prophet-for-hire") taught a foreign king that God could not pour out wrath upon his people UNLESS they had forsaken the covenant. So, the king of the Amorites sent women to entice many of the Israelites to forsake the covenant by engaging in immorality and idolatry. The wrath of God -- via a plague -- ensued. Many thousands headed to the Promised Land died.
However, that was under the OLD covenant. The question today is whether or not there is responsibility of believers in the NEW covenant.
What must we do to be a part of this new covenant?
Obviously, we must believe in Christ Jesus. By the cross, ALL PEOPLE are all drawn to Christ Jesus (John 12:32-33). However, it is not enough to simply believe (because even the demons believe...and tremble) but to have unwavering faith in Christ. After all, the writer of Hebrews said, "And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must BELIEVE THAT HE EXISTS and that HE REWARDS THOSE WHO SEEK HIM" (Hebrews 11:6 ESV).
That word "seek" is translated as "diligently seek" in the KJV and "earnestly seek" in the NIV. The Greek verb (ekzēteō) differs from other more prevalent word for of "seek" (i.e., "zēteō") because this "ek" prefix conveys earnestness and diligence. Moreover, the word is a verb in the form of a present participle. It's not that you once sought him...but that you (presently) diligently seek him.
Is it possible for someone to ever STOP believing and/or seeking God?
In the end, the New Testament teaches that unbelievers cannot enter the Kingdom of God. We also know that sin is always at the door -- and humans are incapable of being "sinless" while living in this earthly flesh. It is just as true now as it was under an old covenant in which sacrifices for sin were a regular part of the life of God's people. However, we have an eternal atonement made for our sins by Christ's sacrifice. So, that promise of atonement is ETERNAL.
However, this still begs the question for whether someone can abandon/forsake/leave the covenant (the same Hebrew word is used for this concept in the old testament). Can someone who once believed wholeheartedly in Christ ever stop believing? Can someone who was devoted to seeking the Lord ever stop seeking?
You don't sustain it, Jesus does. He continually intercedes on our behalf. Once you understand the blood covenant from the ancient near East practises you'll know why it won't make sense to try and earn something once the sacrifice has already been offered.
Because the Holy Spirit has come into to guide you into the ways of righteousness.
Zechariah 4:6
So he answered and said to me:
“This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:
‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
Great way to put it.
This is great. Going to use this
This is crazy! I am the guy who asked this question back in 2016!!! This was 8 years ago and someone just told me they saw me on this video. I was less then two years into the faith and going to a false church and apologetics helped me expose it. The church I was at was a new apostolic church with female
Pastors that didn’t confront sin yet preached we are immutable to it. Now I am a graduate of many biblical studies and go to an expository church in a middle school with no light shows or smoke machines and we love the word of God! My question was sincere because I was at war with my church and what was really true. Thank you men! I still follow Dr Frank Turek and prescribe his book “correct, not politically correct” for all parents struggling with their children in the alphabet religion influence. God bless you all and hope this question seals the deal you CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION BUT YOU CAN LOSE YOUR FELLOWSHIP!
Thank you for commenting and updating! That is so awesome! I’m so glad to hear it!!! Just wanted to add, you can also forfeit rewards and inheritances, but didn’t want to come off all negative sounding without thanking you for your comment brother!!!
Agreed 100% that once saved always saved. It's the how that bothers me.? Asking Jesus into your heart is not salvation. Go with me to what Paul said. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2 verse 8 to 9.
Asking Jesus to come into your heart is works.
@@vanessaG275 Asking Jesus to come into your heart is an act of faith. James says, faith without works is dead. You have to do something with your faith. The works Paul was addressing was the works of the Levitical law. I call it the religious law. Paul continues to correct Jewish Christians that were constantly trying to go back to the religious law. That is why he would say things like, by the works of the law no flesh will be justified. Jewish Christians would boast about getting gentile Christians to follow Jewish religious law, the chief of which was circumcission. Acts 15. But in another place Paul says, not the hearers of the law will be justified but the doers of the law will be justified. He is addressing two different laws. One law is foundational law while the other religious law. The two are seen in the Old Testament. One was specifically for the Jews and the other for all nations. God instructed Jonah to speak to the people of Nineveh that God was going to destroy the city. The people of Nineveh repented and was not destroyed. It was not because they were not keeping the Levitical that God was going to destroy the city but because they were not keeping foundational law. We can call this law foundational because if it is not being kept no other law can reverse the consequences of violating it. So what is foundational law? Jesus tells us in Matthew 19, “Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” Matthew 19:16-19 NKJV “Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 7:12 NKJV Jesus has the power of eternal life and He gives it to whom He wills. Here He tells us whom He wills, those who keep His word. Those who do not enter by the gate but climb up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
You can't even lose fellowship because the Holy Spirit lives in you and He says he will never leave
I am happy that the Father got you straight on the doctrine of salvation. I knew this was an old video, Jack Hibbs has more gray hair now LOL...
Please pray for my brother Kenneth. He has been diagnosed with depression in the past but is now showing signs of schizophrenia.
Please pray that God would heal him from all mental disorders, release him from any demonic opression and fill him with the Holy Spirit.
In the name of Jesus Christ, amen!
Amen! I'll definitely add him to my daily prayer list ❤
Have him go on the Carnivore diet! Dr. Jordan Peterson, Dr. Ken Berry, Mikhayla Peterson all have miraculous testimonies with depression being healed with an all animal foods diet!🙌🏽✝️❤️ God created real food for us, man spoiled it and became physically and mentally ill…
I'll pray for him!
Be delivered in Jesus name!
However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”
Matthew 17:21
Deliverance is vital to his salvation
I went through a similar situation with my wife, I know how scary this can be. I pray that your brother is delivered in the Mighty name of Jesus Christ!
Salvation is a completed act done by our creator, He saved us while we hated him and were enemies against him. He who began a good work will complete it.
Terry, I am in agreement with you. Be blessed.
He didn't save us without our permission and never will
@@justnii2056you’re comfortable saying that God didn’t actually save anyone through the cross of Jesus, but only made people “savable”, because ultimately God can’t save without man allowing Him to?…
@@justnii2056
My people perish because of a lack of Knowledge
Our Salvation is revealed to us….
Amen Glory to God 🙏
My 3.5yr old son listening to James Warner Wallace - "he's talking about dying", "no, we don't die in the dirt!"
We are saved by grace through faith, what we lose is rewards . Works play no part in our salvation,
Faith without works is dead
You got a sure one way ticket to heaven brother. Go and live your life like pagans do. Eat, drink, women's, drugs have fun. Cause you don't have to do any works right? Satan has deceived the whole world with lies. There is no easy way to heaven.
@@baldbull4397that means if you do not have a changed life, your probably not saved. Not that you must provide works to be saved, unless that’s what you meant.
@baldbull4397 that verse isn't about salvation, it's about our testimony among fellow humans
James says we are to do good works as a sign of that promise of salvation we are waiting for on resurrection day
Praise God I am saved, even though I am truly a filthy, wretched sinner, who STILL screws up… sometimes on purpose. But Jesus is my Lord, and he is my center and I come back to Him and He has never abandoned me. Praise God.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
I'm saved thank you Jesus
We are called to be faithful! Not by my own doing but by allowing God's grace to overpower the sin problem. It's about submission to God. Not about trying to overpower the problem of sin which we can't do on own own. I still battle the question about losing salvation. Seeing how easy it is to receive with a true repentant heart but some of those people still turn and run from God. Hebrews talks about it more than any book. Mainly Hebrews 6 4-6. Also we must never forget that there are requirements for our covenant with God. Simple. Not easy.
Once you are saved you are always saved, and that's a promise
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
We won't want to walk away either
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
we always sin, God knows that , so we cannot lose our Salvation from sinning
"Jesus cannot deny himself, he remains faithful "
once saved always saved
Hello. Those who have placed true faith in Christ and have been born of the Spirit have their spirits sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption of the purchased possession. If we continue to sin after that He will deliver us up to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
John 6:37
King James Version
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
1 Corinthians 3:15
King James Version
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1 corinthians 5 kjv
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 corinthians 11 kjv
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
God bless
So what are you asserting???
@@keithkahleyYou first!
John 8:51
[51]Verily, verily, I say unto you, IF a man KEEP my saying, he shall never see death.
Once saved, always saved is contradicted by multiple passages in the New Testament. On the one hand, I have seen people who believe that doctrine but work like they don't. On the other hand, I have seen people who do not believe that doctrine but behave like they do. Jesus used the parable of the two brothers to emphasize that obedience is essential. The parable of the sower speaks of those who believe but do not last. Jesus also said, "He who endures to the end will be saved." (Matthew 10:22, 24:13, and Mark 13:13). There are many other passages that emphasize obedience, including passages written by the Apostle Paul. We need to take all of the passages that touch on this subject -- especially those where Jesus is doing the teaching.
Once ( genuinely) saved always saved is also supported by many scriptures.
I came across a very interesting view which pointed out that we are no longer slaves to sin and that the law has no dominion over us. The Law actually creates the passion for sin and Jesus died to liberate us from the same. You are either saved by grace or by words. Can't do both. I'll add though that once you have been saved by grace, you are also empowered to forsake your sin and adherence to the Holy Spirit is important. He is a better guide than the letter of the law. If you truly believe hmHe will reveal to you even the deep things of God. We are encouraged to not grieve Him. He literally points us back to Christ in whom we are saved. So i guess once you shut yourself or mind from His direction then you can nolonger continue having faith and that messes your salvation up! Just thinking.
Dawebster21 You're right, I stand with you. I know many " Christians" that called themselves believers, but do the opposite of the word of God. But they believe with all their heart that they're saved.
@@davidmcclatchey2133
🤥 👈🏼👈🏼
Once saved always saved is from hell ( lies )!!
Isaiah 59:1-2 👈🏼🤣😂
Hebrews ch.10 tells us that by one offering, we are perfected forever. “Forever” is a pretty strong word to use that should put any doubts to rest. Once you are saved, you are saved for good.
How then do you explain verses 26 and 27 of that same chapter? Not arguing btw, I'm legit curious as I've wrestled with this for a long time.
2 Peter 1:10-11 KJV
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure...
Gal. 5:1-5), be "cut off" from salvation (Rom. 11:18-22), have their names removed from the Lamb's Book of Life (Rev. 22:19), by committing certain sins and not repenting of them (cf. Eph. 5: 3-5; 1Cor. 6:9; Gal. 5:19, Rev. 21:6-8).
Salvation is sure through Jesus but all because we say a prayer and believe in God is not enough.
@@jareddevine8813read the next 2 verses in 1 Cor. 6: “and that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” The Corinthians were carnal Christians. Paul called them believers even though they were living these sinful lifestyles. He’s reminding them that they now have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them and are no longer judged by their sinful works. That’s how God used to see them. Keep reading in verse 12. Just because they have freedom in Christ doesn’t mean they can live however they want. They should live for Christ now and confirm their calling, which is what you quoted in 1 Peter. It doesn’t mean we can lose salvation once we have it, because we got it as a free gift and received it by believing. We can’t keep it by doing good works (Paul condemns this in Galatians). Justification positionally before God is always by grace through faith in Christ. Never by works, because if it was, it’s no longer grace.
I have yet to see anyone who believes in eternal security do a verse by verse exegesis of the book of hebrews. It would be helpful because taken at face value, you can definitely lose something that sounds like our salvation
Another strong argument for salvation assurance is additionally in Hebrews 10, and sadly, that passage has been used to scare people. In 10:26-29, instead of reading this dire warning in context, preachers teach this is proof of salvation loss. If one "goes on sinning willfully" is defined within a few verses. "ANYONE who has set aside the law of Moses dies...how much severed punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God...( in other words who HAS NOT RECEIVED the final offering that forever perfects those who trust in Jesus, the Lamb of God). Misunderstandings of this and other passages plagued me for years. But thank God, I have found peace through proper discernment.
The greater question that seems to never get asked or answered is, "can you walk away from your salvation". I don't believe we can lose our salvation, but I also believe we have free will. This is a question not an argument.
Can you answer me what happens to us when the Holy Spirit enters us?
Yes you can lose your salvation and no we don’t have free will.
Born again then become un born again redeemed by jesus christ then un redeemed by jesus christ, ,THINK ABOUT IT, osas is in the DNA OF GOD PERIOD AND THAT LAST FOR EVER LASTING JOHN CH 3 VS 16 workes for salvation is spit out time from Jesus Christ
@@theodoreritola7641 Judges 16:20 and 1 Samuel 16:14 say that "the Spiirit departed..." Samson and Saul respectively. Are they eternally saved? They had the Holy Spirit and then it departed from them as they were being disobedient to God's commands.
@@ShepherdMinistry Can you answer me what happens to us when the Holy Spirit departs us? As the examples of Samson (Judges 16:20) and Saul (1 Samuel 16:14). David cried out in Ps 51:11, "Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me."
We are saved by grace through Faith . Having faith in Jesus is better than placing your trust on mankind.
faith without works is dead
@@treilers666visionI suggest you read the first verse of James.. James 1:1 James A servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad and who are the twelve tribes the twelve tribes of Israel.. The book of James is written to the Jews not to us lean had to rightly dividing the word of truth.. In 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth.. In Ephesians 28-8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of God 9 Not by works lest any man should boast we are not saved by our good works we are saved by grace though faith in what Jesus Christ did on the cross for our sins
The Holy Spirit seems to make it pretty clear for us...
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
There’s faith and saving faith. If it were up to us we would mess it up.
@@ShepherdMinistry 1 Cor 15:1 Now I would remind you, BROTHERS, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you-unless you believed in vain.
Heb 3:12-14 Take care, BROTHERS(Christians), lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
(notice: the deceitfulness of sin causing those to fall away from the living God.)
You're teaching a false gospel and humanism,
"If it were up to us we would miss it up"
lol
No my friend, as believers we have a responsibility to live out our salvation, proving that indeed we are followers of Christ. Faith and trust is not a mind exercise. You cannot believe or have faith in a God whom you do not obey.
@@ShepherdMinistry Where does the Bible say this? How many "units of faith" do you think one needs to have "saving faith"? what's the unit of measure?
@@ShepherdMinistry Rev. 1-5, Matt. 18:21-35 you can't lose salvation, you can throw it away or God can take it from you because you chose to turn from Him.
“Some will depart from the faith” doesn’t mean depart from (lose) their eternal salvation. It means they once believed the gospel of grace (THE faith), but became deceived by false doctrine and no longer believe that Christ ALONE obtained our redemption, but that they must work to remain saved. They’re still saved, because they’ve been born of God and are sealed with the Spirit unto redemption, but were carried off by winds of doctrine, which are not the true faith.
The people who Jesus said depart from me, I never knew you were all standing on their works. We did this and that for you. You are not saved by works but by faith in Jesus.
John 8:51
[51]Verily, verily, I say unto you, IF a man KEEP my saying, he shall never see death.
If or when you become “…not saved by works but by faith in Jesus,” is the same free will used to believe and receive salvation disabled if or when you decide to reject what you initially accepted?
To simplify: are you then forced to be happy in a heaven you no longer are interested in?
I believe you hold the power of compliance and agency, it’s just that we don’t deserve what Jesus gives.
@@roba7737 VERSES THAT SAY WE NEED WORKS, TOO, TO BE SAVED/REMAIN SAVED
Luke 6:37
[37]Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
John 5:29
[29]And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 15:6
[6]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 3:3,5
[3]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[5]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Matthew 18:3
[3]And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
James 1:21
[21]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
John 12:48-50
[48]He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
[49]For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
[50]And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew 7:21
[21]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
John 8:51
[51]Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Romans 10:9
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Hebrews 10:26-27
[26]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Romans 2:6-10
[6]Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7]To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[8]But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[10]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Hebrews 12:25
[25]See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Revelation 22:12,14-15
[12]And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[14]Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15]For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
@@roba7737 More verses showing we need works and more to be saved or remain saved
Matthew 6:14-15
[14]For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[15]But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Romans 10:9
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Matthew 25:34-36
[34]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[35]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[36]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
1 Timothy 6:12,18-19
[12]Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
[18]That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
[19]Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
2 Peter 1:5-8,10
[5]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[6]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[7]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[8]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[10]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: FOR IF YE DO THESE THINGS, YE SHALL NEVER FALL:
2 Peter 1:11
[11]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
James 2:14-17,24
[14]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[15]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[17]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[24]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 5:15,19-20
[15]And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
[19]Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
[20]Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1 Timothy 4:1,8-10
[1]Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[8]For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
[9]This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
[10]For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Hebrews 6:10-12
[10]For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
[11]And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
[12]That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
1 Peter 4:8
[8]And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
That's so true and so good!!!
The question isn't whether or not you can "lose" something. The question is whether or not you can abandon, forsake or leave your part of this new covenant.
A covenant, after all, is a binding agreement made between two or more parties. It's like a marriage covenant between a husband and wife. God's part of that covenant is ETERNAL. He will not forsake his part. The question is whether human beings who come to Christ are capable of abandoning the covenant. In the old covenant, it was entirely clear that they could -- and God's elect (i.e., the "Chosen People") did quite a few times (which ultimately led to captivity).
Early on, it happened at Peor just before God's people entered the Promised Land. Balaam taught the foreign king that God could not pour out wrath upon his people UNLESS they had forsaken the covenant. So, the king of the Amorites sent women who engaged in immorality and idolatry with many of the Israelites. The wrath of God -- via a plague -- ensued.
Now, the question is whether or not there is responsibility of believers in the NEW covenant. To be a part of this new covenant, we must believe in Christ Jesus. However, it is not enough to simply believe (because even the demons believe...and tremble) but have unwavering faith in Christ. After all, the writer of Hebrews said, "And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must BELIEVE THAT HE EXISTS and that HE REWARDS THOSE WHO SEEK HIM" (Hebrews 11:6 ESV).
Is it possible for someone to ever STOP believing and/or seeking God?
In the end, the New Testament teaches that unbelievers cannot enter the Kingdom of God. We also know that sin is always at the door -- and humans are incapable of being "sinless" while living in this earthly flesh. It is just as true now as it was under an old covenant in which sacrifices for sin were a regular part of the life of God's people. However, we have an eternal atonement made for our sins by Christ's sacrifice. So, that promise of atonement is ETERNAL.
However, this still begs the question for whether someone can abandon/forsake/leave the covenant (the same Hebrew word is used for this concept in the old testament). Can someone who once believed wholeheartedly in Christ ever stop believing? Can someone who was devoted to seeking the Lord ever stop seeking?
I agree with the panel's response. Those who supposedly "abandon" their faith never were truly saved to begin with. Sure, outwardly they may have looked, talked, and acted the part.... but when the heart is transformed by the Holy Spirit, are we saying he just didn't do a good enough job on some people? God forbid we should ever say the Holy Spirit's work is not sufficient!
This goes back the the parable of the sower and the four types of soil. Two of the four will produce the outward appearance of salvation (i.e. a beautiful plant springs up quickly), but when the worries of the world or the scorching heat of persecution arise, their outward works shrivel up and die. That's why when former so-called "Christians" say they've deconstructed their faith, I don't think they really mean it. They likely never believed at all, but for reasons they found convenient, they pretended to be Christian, possibly even deceiving themselves about their sincerity for a time. I've seen people do this in many other areas of life. There's no reason to believe that we can't deceive ourselves about faith.
How could a person who truly understand how lost he/she is and trusts in Christ's mercy as the only solution ever say... "Nah, that's not for me." Either one of two things happened: they never truly understood how lost they are (lacked true conviction, and so eventually turn back to self for answers) or they were convicted and fell into despair (never truly regenerated).
@@sidwhiting665even a person who truly understands how lost they are l, still have the capacity to fall in unbelief. Ive seen and heard many who truly believed and was swayed by other reasoning or circumstances. Apostasy is Real thing, that’s why Paul warned the gentile in Romans 11 that you too can be cut off from the branch if you stop believing just the like Israel. Gods part is true in Salvation, it’s finished and done. But man has to receive and Man can abandon the gift he was given.
@@sidwhiting665 yeah I would say if someone says they were a Christian and now isn't a Christian I truly believe they never actually believed wholeheartedly in the first place, you can't tell me someone is actually born again, understands and knows that's Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Knows that we're saved by grace through faith, and also knows that if it weren't for Jesus we would have to pay the penalty for our sins all by ourselves, Would ever actually want to give up their relationship and salvation with God and say "I don't want to accept Gods free gift anymore" and ultimately would want to rather accept hell instead of heaven after "believing" in Jesus and having the holy Spirit. As a believer I literally couldn't imagine forfeiting my salvation even when I never deserved it in the first place glory be to God the father for sending his son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins even when I was a sinner Amen❤️❤️
@@jayguison480 I hear what you're saying and am familiar with Paul's warning in Romans 11.
That said, I'm also familiar with John's statement in 1 John 2:19. They went out from us because they never were of us. If they were of us, they would have stayed with us.
I'm also familiar with Ephesians 1:13-15 which says the Holy Spirit is our guarantee that once we believe we are sealed with his power and guaranteed to obtain the inheritance of life.
And one of the most blessed passages, Romans 8:38-39 which says nothing in all creation can separate us from the love of God which is ours in Christ.
I'm not sure which passages you're relying on explicitely. Romans 11 also describes how God's call is "irrevocable", suggesting it cannot be undone once it is done. that would make God's call ineffectual and subject to change.
This is where I believe we have to let Scripture interpret Scripture rather than relying on human logic. I've always understood Romans 11 to be about how the Gentiles as a group were extended the same grace as the Jews, that they too could now participate as part of God's chosen people. It's a call back to the OT concept that was exclusive to Israel, but now includes all peoples of all nations. It's a reminder not to rely on one's heritage or ancestry. I do not believe it pertains to individual believers who have been born again. If you wish to say how you came to your conclusion, I'd be interested to hear it.
@@sidwhiting665 This is my perspective as well. I've seen some of the work Christ has done in my life (not to mention the lives of others). There is no way I would EVER consider abandoning the faith. You'd have to kill me first. I agree with Peter in John 6:68 when he said “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." It's either Jesus or it's no one.
It boils down to believing/loyalty and trusting/love..
Repentance, submission, humility, holiness
@@chad9455 hang in there and you will catch up one day once you have entered the rest Jesus Christ bought and paid for. Until then, try not to dig yourself a hole that's so deep you can't climb out of. God bless,
@@chad9455 Don't be to hard on yourself. Jesus already paid the FULL price, so simply walk and live in Christ, then relax and enjoy the life He has made available to you.
THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST ONLY.THE CROSS ONLY ,TRUST JESUS CHRIST .ONLY, OUR WORKS ARE AS FILTHY RAGS TO GOD ONLY,
AAAAAMMMMMEEEEENNNN
Is it possible to lose one's salvation? Read these verses: Matthew 24:24; Galatians 5:4; Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:38-39, Heb. 12:15; 2Pet. 2:20-22, 2Pet. 3:17-18; Rev. 2:5. Thus, the answer to the question is YES!
I think Hebrews 6:4-6, 2 Peter 2:17-18 and Revelation 2:4-5 are the strongest points against becoming apostate. In Hebrews 13:5(b) we read, 'God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you". Yes, God will never forsake us, but He gives us the free will to not only accept Jesus as our Savior but to also later reject Him.
If you have the ability to lose the salvation then that makes you stronger that God and that is not possible. Think about it.
@@davidward3991 I think his point wasn't to rationalize things with our own finite understanding. Those quotes are almost the same I always use to show to those who claim that a Christian can't commit apostasy... The Bible is full of warnings against this
A few more texts you would be:
Hebrews 3:12-14;
1 Timothy 4:1
@@davidward3991by your definition, Adam and Eve were stronger than God. Because though they were sinless and under the covering of God, God forsook them to the devil's deception.
Don't use red herrings to make your point, use the Bible. And the Bible says no one will lose their salvation as long as THEY REMAIN IN THE VINE. John 15:1-6.
it's by grace we are justified and by grace we are also sanctified.
Yes Sir 💯
Galatians 6:8-9
[8]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
[9]And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
I like how they keep it alive and banter each other but accepting it as fun.
Lauren... brilliant!
I am so pleased to see a young woman eager to share her faith in Christ with her atheist acquaintances.
Bless her heart! 💗
I don't believe you can "lose" salvation, but you can give it up. We still have freewill. We can make the choice to follow the world. Ezekiel chapter 18 talks about that very topic. We have to consider the whole Bible rather than just bits and pieces.
We don't have freewill, we can't will something into existence. But we have free choice, and we can choose to turn away.
Nope. You cannot give back your salvation. You do not have the power or authority to become "Un-saved".
@@mountainskyaerialphotograp3921… Yes, you can definitely choose to backslide and depart from salvation of your own free will. One can be saved and on their way to heaven and then choose to fall as the scripture says Judas did and end up in hell.
We certainly made to choice to be saved and we can certainly undo this by choice.
@@scott1414 Backsliding is not giving up salvation. It is impossible to give up salvation, just like it is impossible for you to be "unborn".
It’s not about earning anything. It’s about loyalty-believing loyalty. Biblical faith that saves is faithfulness to one’s faith.
Biblical faith is believing in Jesus alone for your salvation.
@@gregorylatta8159Hebrews 10:26-27
[26]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
God sustains your salvation.
He chose you and He will keep you.
Yes 💯
Only with your willingness and cooperation.
@@therighteousrighthandThat hints that you can lose it. Not possible.
@@therighteousrighthandYou are implying that God is not powerful enough to keep you. Salvation is HIS work from Beginning to end
No It's Lie
The question I hear asked most often in Calvinist circles is, "How can I know that I am saved?" or stated another way, "What assurance do I have that I am saved?". Non-Calvinists never ask that question and I think there is a reason.
Calvinism takes away man’s free will. Therefore making God only able to save certain individuals which is disgusting. Jesus said if ANY man come after me let him take up his cross and follow me.
Calvinist or not, the humblest Christians are the ones who are the most astounded that God saved such sinners as they.
God's electing love is so scandalous. Why me? We must continue asking that. God is so, so good.
Well, from Romans 10:9-10, once you believe that Jesus being God, died was buried and resurrected then you are saved.
@@BFM777who are we to decide who gets saved .. a sovereign God doesn’t need anyone’s permission to save whom he pleases out of PURE GRACE . Or do you not believe in a sovereign God ? What does he owe US ?
Is this 'Born Again?'
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation ; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” II Corinthians 5:17
"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." - Matt 7:20
"Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples." - John 15:8
------------
"… by their fruits ye shall know them."
So the 'Symptoms' of being Born Again are 'bearing fruit?'
"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." John 15:2
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." - Matt 7:19
So, "Fruits" are apparently pretty important."
"For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." - Matt 12:50
"Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." John 14:23,24
So someone actually 'Born Again' will be found DOING... the will and commandments of God..?
So "Works" are part of what "Born Again" looks like?
That's probably 'WHY...' James says,
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." - James 2:26
Yea…, I'll bet he's trying to tell us something….
Our 'Salvation' is absolutely an act of Grace and cannot be earned. However, being "Born Again" as a "Child of God" comes with responsibilities. (A… "Child of 'GOD'...") and "a heart of flesh" that moves us to do what is right before the eyes of the Lord without further prompting and micro-managerial commands.
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; AND I WILL- NOT- BLOT OUT HIS NAME out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." - Rev 3:5
You can never cancel out one N.T. scripture with another, they are complimentary not contradictory.
"Born Again?
"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34
These are the WORDS of Jesus Christ from His own lips : (… and He's 'blotting out names'.)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." - Matt. 25:31-46
The Bible is written solely to the people who are going to hear and read it and have the heart to accept it - The Elect.
"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." - John 12:40
The people the Lord is talking about BELIEVE… they are saved - but they are not.
"21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matt 7:21-23
----------------------------
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1
Faith & Works do not contradict, 'works' are part of what "Born Again" looks like. "Worship in spirit and in truth." - John 4:24
No matter what 'deeper meanings' you believe you see in a scripture, and they go very deep, but they never contradict the face-value meaning of the verse(s) you are 'interpreting.' Let The Bible speak for itself - it never contradicts itself and Jesus Christ never subordinated HIS Word in His Gospels to Paul or anyone else… That would absolutely result in chaos. And it has.
"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34
"knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 20,21
That includes Churches, 'Scholars,' book writers and all of their conflicting doctrines and chaos without which there would be no "Christian Denominations." - 'Chaos.'
"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34
Let The 'Biblical Word' on the page speak for itself.
Paul said…”lest after I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway”.
Paul is not talking about eternal life or salivation rarher he's talking about crown
@@zewudekia7473
Kindly prove that's the case.
Thanks
@@zewudekia7473repent.
Not 'castaway' - "Disqualified"
there are biblical qualifications for being a preacher/pastor/teacher etc..
I can try to help explain it if I can hopefully. Paul is basically saying he’s always examining his self. Paying attention to how he is carrying himself walking in the Lords eyes and the eyes of others who he preaches to. Knowing that God has called you to bring souls to salvation but you refuse to accept salvation for your own life! It’s what we call a hypocrite pretty much. Someone who appears to be qualified, and seems to sound good and knows what’s right to say, but does not apply it to their own life. In their own life they have secret sins and a lifestyle of being unrepentant. It’s foolish and deceiving your own self. In a lot of cases these days, with so many of these false preachers, teachers and people it’s not even a secret! They live a double life so out in the open stevie wonder could see it! So basically it makes you a castaway: By definition unqualified or better yet disqualified to preach, teach or even spread the gospel. Simply because you have not even accepted salvation and truly believed in the gospel for your own life. Paul is saying when you do that you’re wasting your time. That’s why it is imperative that we take heed to 2 Corinthians 13:5 and 2 Peter 1:10-11. It can be very hard fighting the temptations of this world on a daily basis… But we have to! Some temptations we have to even flee from!!
But we must do as the Lord says. And when we fall, we crawl right to God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ asking forgiveness. Listening and responding to the correction of the Holy Spirit!
If we run the race with the attitude of that always being in the forefront of our minds and deeply imbedded in our hearts, it is VERY TRUE that you will Never lose your salvation!
I minister this to myself first, as well as to you in Jesus’s name!
We have free will. We can break our part of our covenant with God. Its called divorcing God. Even though it's hard to walk completely away from God. He loves us so much he relentlessly chases us yet respects our free will.
God doesn't Chase after anyone.He is ever present,thus giving us a free will
Can you explain to me what happens to us when we are born again?
WHAT ABOUT REDEMPTION ? AFTER JESUS CHRIST REDEEMS HIS OWN WILL JESUS LATER ,UN ..REDEEM THEM ? THINK ABOUT THAT PLEASE BE hounest with your self and my personal REDEEMER Jesus Christ
YOU can NOT walk a way from REDEMPTION
@@theodoreritola7641 Can you change citizenships? Jesus is currently seated on His throne reigning as King with "all authority in heaven and on the earth" (Mt 28:18). Those who love the King and obey His commands (Jn 14:15) have become His disciples and have entered His Kingdom. His Kingdom is characterized by righteousness, peace, joy, love, faithfulness, grace, mercy, and salvation. Salvation in found only in Him (Acts 4:12). Those who continue to remain in His Kingdom (by being obedient to Him), will receive eternal life on the Last Day. Those who return to love this present world more than loving Him and following His commands (i.e. changed citizenship from the Kingdom back to the Evil One's), will not receive salvation or eternal life on the Last Day. Remain in the King.
It's about obedience. "Only those who DO the will of my father" "if you love me you will obey" "thier belief did not save them because it was not mixed with faith" "they could not enter because they did not obey" we don't obey to be saved, we obey from love for Jesus.
The will of the Father is to believe on Jesus. I suggest you do so.
@@gregorylatta8159 amen.
The question is poorly framed. The question is not "Can I loose my salvation?", rather "Can I forfeit my salvation?" or "Can I break the New Testament/Covenant with God?"
CAN a REAL CHRISTIAN BE ..UN ..;.REDEEMED BY MY REDEEMER JESUS CHRIST ? I NEED YOUR ANSWER FAST SO YOU WILL STOP TRYING TO CALL JESYS CHRIST A LIAR IN JOHN CH 3 VS16, I say you will be to afraid
Is this you're show ?
You are poorly framed! Haha. The question was answered correctly. And I think a lot of people will get some clarity to something I was very confused with when I asked it 8 years ago. You cannot walk with Jesus and deny Him. When you make Him King, there is no turning back. If you walk away from Jesus you were never of Him as 1 John makes clear. (1 John 2:19)
@@conservativefather5446 If the debate was about whether aliens existed, and someone showed you a verse in the Bible ( which doesn't exist , I'm making it up to make my point) that said " There is no such thing as an alien", you would have to conclude that based on that verse alone, there are no aliens. What if there were two verses that showed you that a person can fall away and when they do, they can't come back? I give you Hebrews ch 6 : vs 4-5 which says
" It is IMPOSSIBLE for a person who has been enlightened, who has tasted of the heavenly gift, who has shared in the Holy Spirit, who has tasted of the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance..."
There is no other way to explain this verse except to say that some people who have genuinely accepted Christ and lived a Christian life according to God's word, can decide to choose to walk away and reject what they had previously accepted...and there is no way back for them.
@@theodoreritola7641
Ur the 🤥. 👈🏼😂🤣
Isaiah 59:1-2 👈🏼👈🏼
if you can lose your salvation then you will. Your salvation does not depend on you but on Christ. See John 10:27-30
So choosing to believe in what Jesus did, is that not something you do? By making a choice weather to believe or not?
Jesus: Matthew 5: 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches [i]others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [j]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 13: 23 And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.’
1 John 2: 3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
Romans 2: 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress [e]for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned [f]without the Law will also perish [g]without the Law, and all who have sinned [h]under the Law will be judged [i]by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers [j]of the Law who are [k]just before God, but the doers [l]of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have [m]the Law do [n]instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having [o]the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
James 2: 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy [m]triumphs over judgment.
1 Peter 4: 17 For it is time for judgment to begin [l]with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, [m]what will become of the godless man and the sinner? 19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.
Philippians 2: 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Jesus: Revelation 3: 4 But you have a few [a]people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
Christ also tells us that we are judged by our faith AND our works. So it does also involve us. We have free will.
Read the epistles and also of course what Jesus said. It appears that many will and many will not find salvation. Jesus said many will be surprised. One fallacy is to think we are saved, Jesus said we are on our way. It is a way, and a gate. A disciple journeys. Paul says on one instance, you ate nearer to your salvation. Indeed we are dependent, as Jesus said, abide in me, that is to say follow him, obey him, or be thrown away.
Then you were never saved in the first place. I struggle all the time with certain sins ,but I’m holding on to my salvation. If you enjoy the sin and there is no remorse you most likely weren’t saved in the first place. But if you are aware and remorseful you are definitely saved. Remember Lot he was declared a righteous man even tho in his righteousness he was tormented day and night. He still struggled.
James 5:19-20 tells us a saved soul can turn away. The victory there is turning them (Bretheren) back to God, saving a soul from death. Apostasy is real
Yes, the once saved always saved idea is used like an indulgence by some. They feel safe to do whatever they want because they believe they cannot lose salvation through rebellion. Rebellion and apostasy is found throughout the Bible. I think the Bible is abundantly clear on the matter.
Soul can, and is refering to physical life. Not all verses are about spiritual salvation.
One can sin oneself to death in this life and still be saved.
#BiblicallyUneducated
That is only interpretation at best. Multiple translations like the KJV, ESV, and others even specifies saying saving their souls from death. Death of one’s soul is more than just physical.
@@antonkoivisto2999 You are being deceived.
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 1 Jn 3:6.
If you are not abiding in Christ you'll die. We have to be IN Him. It's possible to sin for a believer. But if you keeps on sinning that means you are getting away from Christ not abiding
You can't lose your salvation, if you're truly saved. Once saved always saved, if truly saved.
Amen
That's so so dangerous man...
@@federicomarz5161Why do you say that
Still looking for a satisfactory explanation of Hebrews 6. Every OSAS believer I have come across, has seemed to dance around this passage. It appears to me that you can lose your salvation, but only once.
Would genuinely love a OSAS believer to exegete Hebrews for me 6 if you see it differently.
The whole books needs the treatment and the fact that it seems to not have been done is telling. Main reason why Luther wanted it gone. If anyone has a series taught by anyone, I would love it
Hebrews 6 is addressing the issue of false converts. They may have tasted some of the good things associated with genuine faith in God, such as fellowship time with believers, comfort from sorrows, and even material blessings.... but in the end they never were crucified to the flesh and raised again spiritually. They are rather the two types of soil in the Parable of the Sower: the rocky soil and the thorny soil. The Gospel showed some fruit in their lives, but they were never rooted deeply in the soil of Christ. When persecution and worldly troubles came, they shriveled up and died. This is particularly troubling, because as that passage says, "Hey, you KNEW everything you needed to know. You had the head knowledge about God. You even got some of the good things that come with following him... but in the end, you never really trusted him." There's no going back once you willfully, fully, utterly, and unrepentantly reject the things of God.
The Good News is, like the Prodigal Son, the character of the Father is what matters, not how bad the son behaves. No, we should not sin. We should be, as Paul says in Romans, dead to sin and alive in Christ. But outwardly, we may sin repeatedly and stubbornly for many years before--as the parable says--remembering the good things of God. Then we return in repentance, and the Father is rich in mercy and love to forgive before we even formally ask.
Hebrews is advanced theology, no doubt. But if we let Scripture interpret Scripture (always the best idea), there are far too many places where God gives assurance of a promise that isn't based on our efforts. Even in Hebrews 6, the latter half of the chapter is about how faithful God was to Abraham in spite of how many times Abraham sinned by rebelling against God. We have to be careful, lest we add in our works to the process of salvation. Works confirm our salvation and serve the kingdom. They do not earn it, not even one bit. Paul is clear on this.
The key is in the title of the book - "Hebrews". It applies doctrinally to Jews in the tribulation, not saved believers in the Church age.
The parable of the sower best explains it
You cannot pick one chapter or verse to discuss something so complex. What a reasonable believer does is try to reconcile verses all across the new testament.
Jesus made the claims below in the "present tense".
"Rejoice because your names are written in heaven".
"I give them life everlasting and no man can snatch them out of my hand".
Was Jesus lying or powerless to keep his promise?
He alone has the power to save, sanctify and preserve us to the finish line.
Peter adored His Savior yet he denied Jesus 3 times.....but Jesus sustained Him in prayer.
I needed to hear this discussion on losing your salvation ...for a long time and now I had the same question and appreciate that it is out here. Now I feel I can discern the appropriate answer.
1 Peter 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead..."
It's called GRACE and MERCY..🎉❤😊
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
What a great discussion room
Can someone willingly walk away from the Father, and leave the safety and security of His house??
Jesus tells the story of the father with 2 sons, the one rebelled and left. While He was out of the father's will and out of the father's house, the father declared him to be "LOST" and "DEAD" ... - Luke 15:24, 32
The Bible also clearly speaks of the falling away, believers departing from the faith in the last days. You cannot depart from something you were never a part of.
I believe that God is holding me and that I am eternally secure in Him, however, I also believe that I need to abide with Him and stay in His house!!
In order to gain salvation, one has to accept, follow, believe and have faith in Jesus claiming him as the son of God. One must have faith to love God and love thy neighbours in faith in Jesus.
But before you do any of that you have to repent of your sins.
He who endures to the end shall be saved
So 'Faith, Hope and Love abide these three, but THE GREATEST of these is LOVE'... 1Cor.13:13
Great discussion gentlemen. Thank you for getting into the weeds of this very important & hotly debated topic. More of this please!
Paul said
"If we deny Him, He will deny us"
The apostle Paul knew that if anyone, even himself, would turn from Christ they would be lost.
And he also says to the galatians that if they accepted the false Gospel, they were "fallen from grace"
and "severed from Christ"
Yes, a person can be saved and later be lost. That's what severed from Christ means.
Let's take this warning to heart and be faithful to Christ until the end.
If you lose your Salvation, then you were never saved. Please tell me how could it be called saved. Where does it say that we can be saved two times. So then losing a persons Salvation they never have a chance again. I can assure you that my God when giving me a Gift will never be dishonorable and take it away.
That depends on who Paul meant when he said "we." Is he speaking of those in the church or is he speaking of the human race?
We were saved, we are saved, we are being saved. “Falling away” is clearly stated in the Bible. Jesus doesn’t let us go but we can turn away.
...just as outlined in Galatians.
I was born and raised catholic and have always had faith in God and Believed That Jesus was the son of God And died for our sins, in my mid to late 30s I worked with a Pastor at a job and really didn't like going to catholic church for many years and decided to go to his Christian church and listen to him preach cuz I was searching for a church a Christian church and went to many and didn't see a lot of good places I visited they were money driven, etc.I moved back to my hometown and went to church with my folks for them and not me cuz I don't like going to any church I can't bring my Bible to anyway I wasn't getting a good message and left and decided I don't believe in the catholic doctrine so we don't have too much of anything else in my town so I pray and call myself a Christian but never found a church, I know there are some great ones out there and also a lot deceiving ones as well. I don't think Going to Catholic school really has Is any influence on why I believe that I could be still unsaved I mean it could be but I went to Catholic school from first to sixth grade Only as a child And I know the Catholic doctrine says faith and works that's what they believe and I know Christians is grace But I try to be a good person all the time my girlfriend says I'm a wonderful person my daughter says I'm a wonderful dad but I'm always feeling like I can do better and better and that a lot of times I'm worthless or I should have been a better father and wasted some time and a lot of time actually I was on drugs in my 20s I was an alcoholic from the age of 11 to 26 And then never had a drink again and God saved me And let me tell you that's a story for another time but it is true And God did intervene! Because I never lost my faith ever since I was young I never blamed God for anything bad I might have been displeased sometimes but I never ever blamed him for anything I just kept praying always for years and years and years and really never got tired of it because I knew and always knew he is there and always has been there and is listening But the last prayer that I had left in me basically at my rock bottom I've asked the same thing over and over for him to help me and save me so I could quit drinking because the doctors didn't give me 6 months to live and my parents were out shopping for coffins believe it or not and I found it out years later and that's pretty sad but it's true But he did answer me on my last prayer I had the answers Of things that no one could possibly know there was no internet there was no cell phones Even if there was you wouldn't have known the things that I knew and then to find out that Everything was True and was there even the time was exactly correct of when I should Go somewhere and be there It's quite amazing story but haven't had a drink sense and that was Over 25 years ago, I don't know why he answered me but I believe he answered me because it was his time I mean if he's gonna do something for you or answer your prayer it's gonna be in his time not when I know that to be true But like I said I prayed and I prayed but never lost my faith and never was Mad about anything Or him So I know that he knows I'm a true believer, Anyway I have adhd so sorry to make this so long but I talk, talk, talk, My mind goes a 100 miles an hour. LOL Sorry I didn't mean to get off track that's what happens, I got it saying I don't think being raised Catholic has anything to do with why I feel the way that I feel I still feel like I'm just not good enough and and it God might reject me and it scares me and I'm frightened a lot by it and I pray a lot to be forgiven for my sins all the time And I don't really do nothing that bad I mean I still cuss and have that issue and I'm sure I have some bad thoughts But nothing too major I try to live my life as moral and as best as I can I used to cheat on my ex-wife when we were younger and I was a drunk and I would never do something like that now and I haven't I've been faithful to my new wife and we've only been together for 10 years but I would never ever jeopardize that I believe God gave us this gift and it is a gift from God to be married And we should all stay true and faithful to one another But something in the back of my mind or something deep down just bothers me all the time that I fear God And no I haven't murdered anybody or anything like that quite the contrary I try to help everyone as much as possible would give anyone the shirt off my back but I'm not the best person in the world I'm not perfect like any of us but I somehow seem to feel unworthy like I can lose My chance of going to heaven and I feel somehow that it's a chance because if I do bad enough things down here or keep repeating the same sins that he's gonna reject me And that really might have something to do with the way I was brought up Catholic, It just doesn't feel right that once you're saved you're always saved to me if you keep sinning And yes if you keep sending on purpose then that's not good and I get that Because a lot of times we don't try to quit sinning and keep doing it But I generally feel bad every single time that I do something bad and I try to stop like I said cussing or bad thoughts and things like that, It's just hard for me to believe that once saved always saved And that you can't be unsaved Once you are saved Because of the sins that I continue to do even if I'm not doing it on purpose , I'm not trying purposely to turn away from God Or fall away as far as I knowI but I still feel so bad about it... Any advice you could give me would be much appreciated , and I apologize for the long comment I just wanted to give you a little background
If we turn away Christ/God still holds onto us and we continue being saved forever. He may and likely will severely punish the one who falls away and the punishment could be as severe as DYING at an earlier time (The Sin Unto Death), but the individual remains saved….HOWEVER… that individual will very likely lose all of his blessings and rewards and as a result will be at the lowest of hierarchy in Heaven.
Yes in Jesus we are saved, but if we abandon him and then die in disbelief then i guess thats what we get, an eternity whithout him. God doesnt force you to love him.
@@Jacke7111if you abandon him , you never knew him The one who sins has never seen nor knew Me. 1john3:6
Finally someone asking this question
Excellent explanation to the question. When scripture appears to contradict itself, its us that misunderstands the word of God. The bible verses the young man brought up are used often by people who want to refute eternal life and the security we have in Jesus' words. Either we believe Jesus, or we do not. Its very simple.
Guiding principle…if I can do nothing to gain Salvation, then I can most certainly do NOTHING to lose my salvation.
Spoken like a true lukewarm Christian
This scripture clarifies things perfectly_
[20]The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
[21]“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
[22]None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.
[23]Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
[24]“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
[25]“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair?
[26]When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies.
[27]Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive.
[28]Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
[29]Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?
[30]“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
[31]Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?
[32]For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”
Ezekiel 18:20-32
Always thought that if we don't have to do anything to go to heaven, then we might not have to do anything to go to hell either. Seems there is no assurance but merely a hope that we are lucky.
@@BFM777 ”“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.“
John 6:44 NIV… no one decides or chooses to be saved .. no one is saved unless it’s GOD who brings you to him
@@kiwisaram9373 Yes, you are born with sin. It doesn't matter what you do you are still going to hell.
Heb 10:26 ¶ For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
Whats your point?
That scripture is misquoted as usual. It is about false converts who walk away. They are going back into the law and animal sacrifices. You cannot lose your salvation. If you could who would have it.
@@RichardM1366 if they aren't real converts, what do they have to walk away from?
Buy what about apostasy, Bart Erhman is a prime example. Went to Bible seminary, became a pastor, knows scripture. But for some reason turned away from the faith and now an atheist. What if a believer to save his own skin takes the mark of the beast to feed his family? What then? You cannot serve 2 Masters. In Revelations 22:19 it speaks of those who keep His commandments having access to the Holy City and the tree of Life. Tree of life is needed to sustain immortality is it not?
@@RichardM1366Read this then
Hebrews 6:4-8 NKJV
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. [7] For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; [8] but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
It's not referring to "false converts"!
I love these brothers in Christ. God bless. Maranatha.
The heart of the matter here is FAITH because it is through faith that one is saved by God'd grace. The question is can a believer who was saved by grace through his faith eventually lose his faith? Yes, because the kind of faith through which we are saved from eternal damnation is an ENDURING FAITH. Mat. 24:13. When one's faith is gone it is done by his own decision because God has given us freedom of choice. James. 1:12.The lose of one's salvation is just the consequence when one loses his faith, and genuine faith is countenanced by deeds. James. 2:20.
I love to see these guys together. GOD bless brothers
even thogh the rong view goes to HELL 4EVER?
If you can lose it, that means it’s not a free gift of grace and it’s works. It can only be one or the other.
Free gifts can be conditional.
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; (Ephesians 2:8,10). It’s all God.
@@billerickson5604A gift with conditions it is not a free gift. It's an oxymoron and you're speaking double talk.
@@cassiebennet4262 Sure it is. Have you ever received a post card in the mail saying "come into a store and you will receive a free gift"? What would the store say if you called them and asked them to mail the free gift to you? They would say "No" because part of receiving the free gift is the condition that you come into the store.
In Ex 19:5-6, 3 months after leaving Egypt as they were still wandering around in the desert, God told the Israelites that "IF you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, (THEN) you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." This is conditional. IF they obeyed Him as King, THEN they would be His Kingdom. Peter says this about the Church in 1 Peter 2:9. So we must obey King Jesus' commands in order to be in His Kingdom. If we stop loving Jesus and disobey His commands, then we are no longer part of His Kingdom.
@@cassiebennet4262 If you have a baby, you will receive a postcard in the mail saying "Come into the store for a free gift." What would the store tell you if you called them up and asked them to mail the free gift to you? They would tell you no because the free gift is conditional if you come into the store.
As Acts 4:11-12 say, "there is salvation in no one else". Salvation is IN Jesus alone. If a person does not remain IN Jesus, then they no longer have salvation. How does a person remain IN Jesus? By loving Him and obeying His commands (Jn 14:15). Jesus is reigning as the King with "all authority in heaven and on the earth" (Mt 28:18) and those who obey His commands have entered into His Kingdom. If a person goes back to loving this world instead of following the King's commands, then they have left the Kingdom and are no longer found IN Him, but they are IN the world. If the person stays IN the Kingdom, they will continue to have salvation which, again, is found only IN Him.
If you can't lose your salvation then what is the meaning of Matthew 24:13??
Reading in context, it appears that the question is one of sorting the wheat from the chaff. Human beings are incredibly good at deceiving ourselves as to our own motives and intentions.
I consider the Parable of the Sower: there are four kinds of soil that the seed of the Gospel falls on. Two of the four (shallow rocky soil and thorny soil) allow the plant to grow for a time. It may look GREAT outwardly, but it has not root in Christ. When persecutions or worldly worries come up, then those plants shrivel and die.
Take for example many of the so-called Christian pastors, podcasters, and music artists that have fallen away in recent years. They may have had all the outward signs of salvation: leading a large church, writing amazing worship songs, giving solid Biblical teaching, but they themselves may never have been truly convicted, repented, and put their faith, hope, and trust in Christ. Odds are they probably thought they were sincere, at least for a time. As 1 John says, "They went out from us, because they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us."
The lesson I learn is that looks can be very deceiving, even to the person who is putting on the deception. Enduring to the end is the confirmation that we are saved. The trick is... we don't know in this lifetime who will endure to the end. The confidence of the faithful is that we trust in God's word, that he WILL carry us through to the end. Even in our doubts, fears, and trembling.... we turn to him. It may take time, but eventually we turn back to him.
So I would ask the questions to myself if Jesus was talking about the Jews during the tribulation or the Gentiles before the rapture.
Great question. Matthew 24:13 talks about how true Christians endure to the end. I don't believe that verse is talking about people losing salvation. I believe it's talking about how true Christians endure to the end. I believe that verse is talking about how you can tell whether someone is truly saved. When someone becomes saved, God changes them to where they aren't slaves to sin anymore (they still sin, still have sin struggles, etc, but they aren't slaves to sin anymore), they will persevere until the end, they will endure to the end, they'll always be saved, etc. Christians do backslide at times, but Christians endure, persevere, etc to the end in the faith and aren't slaves to sin anymore.
Matthew 7 talks about how there's a lot of people who say "Lord Lord" but when they die, God tells them to depart from him due to him never knowing them. That verse isn't talking about people losing their salvation. The point of that verse is not everyone that claims to be a Christian is a Christian, and that God is not fooled into thinking someone's a Christian when they're not. God knows who's a Christian and who isn't a Christian. There's a lot of people in this world that claim to be Christians that aren't Christians. Some people think they can fool God into thinking that they're a Christian when they're not a Christian.
There is a lot of evidence in the Bible that proves people can't lose their salvation. 1 John 5:13 talks about how you can know for certain that you have eternal life. If you can know for certain that you have eternal life, that' s strong evidence how you can't lose your salvation. 1 John 2:19 talks about how there's no such thing as an ex-Christian. If there's no such thing as an ex-Christian, that implies how people can't lose their salvation.
@@jessicabattenfield5575Matthew was written to the Jews. Read the parable of the wheat and tares in Matt and compare with the other gospels. There are differences. It’s subtle but there. Matt addresses Israel in particular.
@@bikerboy9010 Matthew addresses Israel. So it is talking about the tribulation.
Are we not free moral agents before receiving salvation? Do we loose that freedom to choose after receiving salvation? Can we not still choose to reject Christ after we have been justified?
To know him that is the only true God is eternal life. If you really know him You would never want to leave
Can you choose to return a gift? Yes you can!
Losing one’s salvation is not dependent on God, but on us. What I mean is if someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, then they are “saved.”
However, what if that same person later decides that they enjoy sin more or would rather spend eternity separated from God? Would God force this person into His presence against their will?
John, 3:3, Ephesians 2:8-9, every believer is going to continue to sin. Judging can be a tricky situation. But if there is absolutely no change in a person’s life after they claim to become a believer. Then most likely they’re not a believer to begin with. That’s one of the dangers of growing up in the church. You take part and all the church activities. You have an emotional experience on a Sunday morning or at a camp. Everyone else is going forward so you go forward the person in front pronounces you saved. the only problem is you’re not saved and you only had an emotional experience. Any person who is truly born again would never choose to leave their heavenly father and go to hell. True, out of all the hundreds of millions of people in heaven there won’t be one single person there because they were forced to be there. If they were there, it would be like hell to them.
Love may compel, discipline, correct, BUT NO , LOVE DOES NOT FORCE. GOD IS LOVE
I've heard you guys defend the morality argument in numerous videos, but this time just resonated so well with the blend of humor and the chemistry on stage hahaha i know it'll connect with atheist very effectively (have some friends in mind that I want to share that part with) so please clip that into a short! Thanks 🍻🙏🏾
Answered the first question so beautifully and used Logic
"Its called eternal life for a reason"
Shalom aleichem (peace be unto you).
Except the scripture was written in Greek and Hebrew not Latin or English. The Hebrew word is owlam, the Greek is aion, aionion or ainios, of which we have the English eon, eonion and eonios. The vulgate turned aion into aeternium then instead of eon made it eternal. Making this a non sequitor.
Hebrew words are based on the root word and it's first appearance in scripture.
What if some think they are saved when they are not, then they are convinced they cannot lose what they do not have, thinking they have and cannot lose what is not theirs.
Better to ask are you really saved at all and how can you be sure, many are called and few chosen, the elect are chosen.
But the many are not chosen, yet the many think they are because they were called. Even the chosen must be faithful, hence "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."
Paul says clearly to the Galatians KJV "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
NIV "For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace."
To be cut off you must be attached. To fall away you must have once been close and ascended.
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
"IF" you continue in goodness ....IF NOT /CUT OFF.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Because the carnal (flesh) mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Who reigns in your body the Lord or sin? Enmity means the state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something (an enemy).
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
You cannot serve 2 masters, you serve the one you choose to yield to, sin or grace? Disobedience is rebellion and witchcraft. Practice the acts of the flesh and you will not inherit the kingdom of God, do not let sin deceive you. You can depart from God (no he will never leave nor forsake us but we can freely leave at any time). So I EXHORT you HOLD FAST to the end and do not count the thing were by you are sealed as unholy!!!
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Sinning willfully as opposed to falling into sin, you are not repentant if you sin willfully, you chose to freely and willfully sin and turn the grace of God into lasciviousness, thereby denying the Lord who bought you with his blood. You can depart from the faith and many will in these last days by being deceived about false doctrines and will depart. God will not stop you if you depart, you are free to choose, but God loves you and did everything he could to make a way for you (the straight and narrow path) but if you choose the broad path to destruction you will have no one else to blame. Amen and Selah, Maranatha!!!
He completely failed to use logic.
What is eternal is the life not your possession of it.
[20]The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
[21]“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
[22]None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.
[23]Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
[24]“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
[25]“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair?
[26]When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies.
[27]Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive.
[28]Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
[29]Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?
[30]“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
[31]Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?
[32]For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”
Ezekiel 18:20-32
Can you die should be the question.
Romans 8:12-13 (ESV)
12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Do you think Paul is talking about earthly death? It's about spiritual death. See what Jesus talk about Sardis Church .
“ ‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead., Re 3:1.
Salvation ... is free & simple.
But only God knows ... on Judgement Day ... whose names are written in the Book of Living.
And Jesus clearly said there will be a falling away (loss of salvation) before He returns ... and ... clearly told believers 2000 years ago ... that you must always be ready ( keep the faith) ... for His return .... as you do not know the day or hour .. you die. Jesus just said you can lose your salvation ... by NOT ... being ready for His return ... and you will not join Him at the Wedding Feast.
Excellent points! There is no where in Bible we are ever unsealed
Technically even if you fell away from your faith. You would be at fault and God never breaking his promise or seal because you decided to fall away. That would be on you. Just like the Israelites back in the Old Testament was in the promise and they sinned and was then outside of the promise. That falls on them falling away not on God not keeping his promise.
Grieve not the Holy Spirit by which you are sealed?
Romans 11:22
I would have to many passages to find them all but I suggest you start with John 15 v6 and Hebrews 6v6
It's possible to be erased from the book of life both in the OT and in the NT
Psalms 69:28 & Revelation 3v5
I want to believe this, but how would you explain Hebrews 10:26-27?
I understand the arguments for security of salvation, as well as that at least some seem to have been elected, but that doesn’t stop the fact that there are Apostates. One cannot become an Apostate if they first were not saved.
We are saved by grace through faith. Many give up the faith and thus lose the grace of salvation. After the Resurrection and living the millennial reign, Satan is let back out of the pit. He takes people who have been Resurrected by Christ and lived 1,000 years and causes them to give up their salvation by grace in abandoning their Faith.
If you truly were once saved always saved, Paul wouldn’t talk about finishing the race until the end.
Is Paul talking about salvation, which is a gift or rewards?
If Paul finished the race poorly it doesn’t mean he was going to hell. He just wasn’t going to maybe hear well done good and faithful servant
#Deceived
Philippians 1:6
😊4 b
There are many that has been taught the word of God but has not entered into God's mercy which is Salvation
I HAVE A QUESTION 😁 (I look forward to the answer).
If God gave us free will, then it means that we can choose whether to believe or not. If so, then we can also choose whether we want to KEEP ON believing or to STOP believing.
So my question is "How come we can't lose our salvation?"
If your answer is "Once we believe, we can't stop believing", then you're saying that all of the believers in Christ have lost their free will (turned into robots). Are we stuck in salvation? 🤔
Please give me an explanation 🙏🏼 May God bless us all ✌🏼
This is just my own perspective but the things I’ve seen and read over the years, the very rare times he spoke directly within my mind, those moments when his Word hits just right and you grapple a passage differently even though you’d read it before, the hints of his awesomeness or greatness that I briefly saw in the world or felt…no way I would ever give that up.
It would be as unthinkable as ignoring a bottle of water after a walk in the desert or food after being shipwrecked at sea for weeks.
Isaiah 59:1-2
👇🏼👇🏼👇🏼👇🏼
Hebrews 13:8
Don’t listen to 🤥 of once saved always saved.
If salvation could be lost then NO ONE would be saved.
If salvation can be lost then most people won't be saved and Jesus talking about entering the narrow gate and few are the ones who wil be saved begins to make sense 😅😅
@@dman7668it’s a narrow way, because there’s one way and that’s Jesus Christ.
The apostle Paul says that he finds himself doing what he shouldn’t do and not doing what he should, what a wretched man I am
And that very same apostle you speak of states “I have fought a good fight. I have finished my course. I have KEPT the faith” so would Turek say that if Paul had not kept the faith he never had it to begin with? That’s ridiculous. This argument that you can’t lose salvation is a cop out for Protestants to not sound legalistic and it sounds nice to simply say as long as you confessed that Christ is Lord 20 years ago, you are saved. Then protestants say God elects us to be saved. Well in that case, why should anybody go out & evangelize? God is going to save who he elected anyways right? See how ridiculous that reasoning is. God chooses everybody to be saved & some reject that grace, which causes them to not be saved but God desires everybody to be saved. This argument that everybody who is elected to be saved is going to be saved is not found in scripture. That’s calvinism BS that cannot be backed up by scripture. I’m protestant but wow there are so many protestant beliefs that simply can’t be backed up by scripture…
But he repented, is cannot be consistently sinning against God.
I was not saved until I fully repented from alllll my sins…
I can't lose my gender, my skin color. I can't lose my American citizenship if I do nothing about it. I can't lose what I never had. The prodigal son probably came home more than once. I have. As long as my confidence is in Jesus, I'm not worried about it. The dad I knew loved me anyway.
Amen 🔥
Patrick, you cannot loose that you are a human being, but you can indeed loose your salvation. Those things you talk about are things you have intrinsically. You are not intrinsically saved therefore you cannot logically conclude you cannot loose salvation.
It's a stupid analogy Pat. You didn't think that bad idea through, because you listen to pastors that teach once saved always saved lies. They tickle your ear and you love being told what you want to hear.
@@dman7668. And what kind of person counsels someone by calling their analogy stupid. Is this the unity Christ prayed for. Once saved always saved is not a doctrine critical to salvation, and Patrick has a right to his opinion without being talked down to.
You were indeed blessed in your family.
Nice sounding rhetoric but yet Scripture clearly indicates, in multiple places, that we can. I wonder if the confusion doesn’t stem from the misconception that “Salvation” is a one time incident and not a changed life. One is not married simply because he or she said the words, “I do” on one particular day but because one faithfully keeps the commitment one’s entire lifetime until the end.
Question(s) about losing your salvation.
1. What does it take to lose it? We talking about a sin here and there or just basically deciding not to follow Christ anymore? I assume this is what is considered an apostate? By definition do we know that this only refers to those that were once saved?
2. If you can lose it, can you get it back?
The Greek word "Christ" is the same as the Hebrew word "Messiah" which means "the Anointed One". Anointed for what? Anointed to be a King. This is seen when the religious leaders brought Jesus before Pilate in Luke 23:2 (“We found this man misleading our nation and...saying that he himself is Christ, a king.”) So, every time you read or say the word "Christ" it implies that Jesus is "King", which He is as he is currently seated on His throne. Those who love Him and are obedient to His commands enter into/comprise His Kingdom which is spreading across the world. His Kingdom is one of righteousness, peace, joy, faithfulness, salvation, grace, and mercy, and it can never be shaken. Only the King has eternal life which He will reward to His faithful children on the Last Day. Can a person ever leave His Kingdom? Sure, by stop loving Him and being obedient to His commands, looking to the things of this world instead of trusting in Him alone.
Only those who endure to the end shall be saved.
Anyone who puts their hand to the plough and looks back is not fit to enter into the Kingdom of God.
Jesus Christ
Did you take into consideration the context of that first verse. Context is crucial in finding out truth.
The context is the 7year tribulation, not now. If ur there, then ur there because either u rejected Christ altogether or u never had a chance to except Him. Context can fix a lot of blunders.
@@aarondowler2466you are incorrect! Don’t get caught off-guard!
@@aarondowler2466 read Matt 24, notice it says “immediately *after* the tribulation of those days..”
@@aarondowler2466So you have to believe in a pretrib rapture in order to maintain a once-saved-always-saved theology? Just compare every verse used to argue pretrib with the ones describing the 2nd Coming; it's the same advent. Jesus isn't coming back, leaving again and then coming back again. Pretrib theology was only developed in the 1800s/propagated by obvious charlatans, whilst the early church understood that Jesus wasn't praying for them to be taken out of the world, but that they would remain firm in the faith. Also, there are a multitude of passages that clearly teach that one needs to abide in Christ through faithful obedience and a turning away from the things of this world. No one is sinless and salvation is through the finished work of the cross alone, but that work has to do with sanctification whereby one's works are the evidence of the fruits of salvation, i.e., the fruit of a branch grafted into the tree, and yes, branches can be cut off and cast into the fire.
Salvation is a gift. If this is true then you can't lose it.
Uh yes you can loose it. Because what didn't understand is salvation isn't just a free gift. It's also a reward. Nobody gets a reward for doing nothing.
Can a person throw away a gift.
Truth
@dman7668 God doesn't renege on his promises and he doesn't lie. Study the Bible.
Salvation is NOT dependant on we do but on us believing in what Jesus did on the cross.
Maintaining salvation is deoendent on what we do, not what Christ does. Jesus even ssys so in the bible. Stop with the idiotic once saved always saved heresy.
You are correct, Alex !
@@dman7668incorrect.
What you do is supposed to change as a result of what He did on the Cross.
Romans 2:5-8 NASB2020
[5] But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, [6] who will repay each person according to his deeds: [7] to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life; [8] but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation.
Repentance is a gift, just like most things. However, the caveat is that the double-minded person cannot RECEIVE ANYTHING FROM GOD, James 1:7,8. Everything a double minded person is a figment of his imagination. It has no substance. Purity of heart, righteousness, repentance... ALL a figment. ALL fake. ALL name-it-claim-it. Zero reality. Which is why this nation will probably be turned into Hell, unless, in the very least the Church repents.
Precisely. That's why we can lose our salvation by choosing to not believe what Jesus did on the cross.
The parable Mat-18:23-35 proves that you can Loose your Salvation
We can’t lose our salvation because we can’t lose our Savior:
“I WILL NEVER [under any circumstances] DESERT YOU [nor give you up nor leave you without support, nor will I in any degree leave you helpless], NOR WILL I FORSAKE or LET YOU DOWN or RELAX MY HOLD ON YOU [assuredly not]!” (Heb. 13:5b, Amplified Version, emphasis in original).
Amen Jesus said He will not lose not one.
John 6:39
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.”
Jesus is always Lord (which means "owner", as in "landlord") before He is Savior. Try to find in the Bible where it says that he is "savior and lord" in that order. I'll help you out, it's not there. The Scripture always presents Jesus as "Lord and Savior" if those two are in close proximity to each other. A person can reject Jesus as Lord and follow after earthly things. If Jesus is no longer a person's Lord, then He is not the person's Savior any longer. And salvation is only found in Jesus.
We can't lose the gift because we can't lose the gift giver? That doesn't make sense to me.
If I could lose my salvation, I would lose it all the time!! Also, how many times can you be born again?
this is a question i have had for quite some time now.
Once eternally. And you can only die once eternally.
Hebrews 9:27
“And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,”
@@ZeckArriaga
To say otherwise is denying the power of God. Deny the power of human beings all day long but don’t deny the power of God, it’s why Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith not use.
John 3:3 (AMP)
“Jesus answered him, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless a person is born again [reborn from above-spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified], he cannot [ever] see and experience the kingdom of God.”
What is the definition of apostasy?
AMEN!
Because interpreting Scripture is subjective, I will state that, in my opinion, Scripture read in context, signals that it is possible to lose one's salvation.
So you think truth is subjective?
Yeah God didn’t waste his time with warnings just for us to come to a conclusion that all is well just believe sit back and relax, Jesus said why do you call me Lord and don’t DO what I say. Many say Lord but don’t do the works that Jesus gives them, all his parables point to lazy half hearted phonies who will not be in his kingdom.
But Jude says "Now unto him that is able to keep you from FALLING, and to present you FAULTLESS before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy"
The Bible is not open to interpretation!
You either understand what is written or you don't.
Jesus even says multiple times "He who has ears, let him hear"; when you write something, do you leave it open for interpretation, or, are you trying to convey a particular message?
Remember the Name of Jesus. What does it mean?
Hello! Jesus tells us we must endure till the end to be saved Matthew 24:13 KJV
As with any statement of Scripture, taking this verse out of context leads to misinterpretation. The immediate context of Christ's remark is the state of the world immediately prior to His second coming (Matthew 24:14). The broader framework of His teaching is found in other lessons (John 5:24; 10:28-29).
Those who survive the tribulation will be "saved" in the sense of being "spared," and will continue to live in the millennial kingdom. The concept that one could lose or walk away from eternal life is contrary to other teachings of both Christ and the apostles (1 John 3:14; 5:11-12).
If that is true, then it means that it is MY behavior that has saved me.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
JESUS CHRIST TELLS PEOPLE TO TRUST HIM ONLY ARE OU AFRAID ? JOHN CH 3 VS 16
That entire chapter is actually about what will happen to Israel, not Christians and the church. The context is Jesus taking jewish questions from His Jewish disciples about what will happen to Israel. Notice all the "jewish only" references Jesus uses in answering their question "What will be the sign of the end and of your coming?" : He mentions "the abomination of desolation", "the temple", "the sabbath", "the rooftops", " the "Judean countryside " and the "elect". He goes on to give us more info about who the "elect " are. He said "If those days weren't shortened, not even the elect would survive". This is a reference to Zechariah 13:8-9 which is about Israel during the Tribulation and it says...
" In the whole land " , declares the Lord, "Two thirds will be struck down and perish yet one third shall remain in it. This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold."
It is this "one third that shall remain" who Jesus is referring to as the "elect", and NOT the church.
Titus 3:5-7
“He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.”
“This is the Spirit He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by His grace, we would become heirs with the hope of eternal life.”
This is talking about the first step of salvation.
To be bold enough to state that Judas was “never” even after knowing he must of spent so much intimate time in the presence of Jesus is wild to me. Adam was crafted by the finger of God and still fell to sin. Do we ever question if Adam was ever truly ever saved? God walked with Adam in the Garden, Jesus walked with Judas trough out Israel. Both fell short. Salvation is freely given but its our job to maintain it.
These guys need to become familiar with the MASSIVE amount of teaching from early Christian fathers AND the centuries of Christian dogma that pre-dates the Reformation. Eternal security (perseverance of the saints) was never taught. Ever. Yes, we can walk away from our relationship with Christ and His Church, to our eternal peril.
Wanna bet they believe in free will but of course if you get a free gift and you can abuse the gift giver and never lose it it seems they are fine with abusing the blood of the one who sanctified them. Setting the stage for the son of perdition imho
This implies that my going to church and my commitment to Christ brings me salvation.
"I never knew you"
Then explain the Name of Jesus. OR SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION. You can't. Further you believe you can lose baptism too.
Let me guess...you're a catholic, right? 🤦♂️
If we forsake him , he will forsake us
In a nutshell, yep.
This is before salvation
If you are responsible for keeping or salvation you would lose it.
@@eddiesblacksmithingkjv9185
Is it? Please consider these
Hebrews 10:29-31 ESV
[29] How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant👉 by which he was sanctified,👈 and has outraged the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge 👉his people.”👈 [31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Please think on this more my friend. Not so you may live in fear, because we can have assurance, but that you nit be decieved by the decietfulness of sin.
We have an enemy , we must not be ignorant of his schemes.
Hebrews 3:12-13, 15 ESV
[12] Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. [13] But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. [15] As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
Ephesians 5:5-6 ESV
[5] For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. [6]👉 Let no one deceive you with empty words,👈for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Ezekiel 33:13, 17-18 ESV
[13] Though I say to 👉the righteous👈 that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die.
.....[17] “Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just,’ when it is their own way that is not just. [18] When👉 the righteous👈 turns from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it.
Romans 2:9-11 ESV
[9] There will be tribulation and distress 👉for every human being 👈who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, [10] but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. [11] 👉For God shows no partiality. 👈
Food for thought
Thanks for sharing, God bless you friend
@@eddiesblacksmithingkjv9185
Jude 1:21 ESV
[21] 👉keep yourselves👈 in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
John 15:9-10 ESV
[9] As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you.👉 Abide in my love. [10] If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love,👈 just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love.
1 Timothy 4:16 ESV
[16] Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing👉 you👈 will save both yourself and your hearers.
Should've asked them to defend 'once saved, always saved' in light of:
Hebrews 6:4-6 NKJV
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
God cannot take away your salvation. You can withdraw it. It's up to us. We are saved if we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. The minute we reject Him (fall away), we reject our Him as our Lord, thus rejecting our salvation.
@@aaronharlow2137 Not a very comforting thought, is it? So ... what do you think?
1) Are you saved?
2) Is there anything in all the world--especially something you've never experienced before--that could cause you to lose your salvation?
3) If so, then what work must you do to keep your salvation, and is that a credit to you for having done it?
"“ In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.” - Ephesians 1:13-14
The way I interpret this is that "falling away" is deciding to stop believing. To make a conscious decision to walk away from him and turn your back on him knowingly. We couldn't be good enough to gain salvation .... we aren't good enough to hold onto salvation either.. .no works are good enough. There would be no point for Jesus to die for our sins, if even after his sacrifice and accepting him, asking forgiveness and believing he is lord, you just lose it by being human. If you keep faith and love him, he never forsakes you. That's what I believe.
@aaronharlow2137 please explain what Hebrews is talking about then. You can't do that because it doesn't fit any other interpretation
@@aaronharlow2137 once saved always saved ppl dont even believe you can withdraw it; as you call it.
People don’t understand what happens at the point of salvation. You are a new creation. You are a child of God. Whoever is born of God overcomes the world.
I keep seeing this discussion / question, shouldn't it be better if we just try to be the best Christian we can everyday and produce more fruit and try to become hollier so that we can see the face of the Lord? Why keep thinking negative and not try to reach ahead as Paul did?
You can not lose what you never had. Matthew 24:13 Those who persevere until the end shall be saved
Ananius and Sapphira both had the Holy Spirit; yet they lost their salvation when they lied to Him and were struck down; remember?
Also, remember, Judas Iscariot was saved at one stage and then he let greed get the better of him?
Salvation is a gift from God that assures us eternal life when we receive it, but free will also allows us to throw that gift away.
😆😆😆😆
Exactly
100%. People that you cannot lose salvation so tightly it’s just crazy to me it’s not biblical. I do believe often people were not really saved… a lot of scripture supports that. Scripture also explicitly reveals that people can turn away from no longer follow God. That does not mean never followed him. There are thousands of examples, but a very clear and simple one is in the second when he says that it is better to have never known the way of righteousness to have known it and turn from it. is it better to have never known if you are still going to be with the Lord for eternity?
No, I don’t need you lose salvation ever by accident. often people never really knew the Lord walking that path. But any person who says has a free will, and could choose stop following God. Even the angels and Satan turned from God. Solomon turned from God.
I also think to 100% assume that Judas was not saved, is a little foolish. just because he went to hell as the scripture says doesn’t mean that he didn’t believe in Jesus with him. Maybe he didn’t actually know him. think we can say that certainty:
A born again Christian can NOT THROW THERE REDEMPTION A WAY U FOOLOR BE ,,un,, born again And Jesus Christ will never ,, un.. redeeem his own never .. osas.. is the DNA OF JEUSUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD MY PERSONAL REDEEMER
The devil wouldn't continue to temp us after we become Christians if there wasn't a chance that he could get us back. Back sliding is surely not recommended, but possible. We have to ask God every day to help us lead as holy of a life as we can, and to help us not commit sin. Unfortunately we will fall short here and there, but He will forgive us when we ask Him to, and He will help us to do better in the future if we allow Him to.
Salvation comes when we realize how badly we need to be saved.
How does one realize this?
Salvation comes when you trust in Christ.
Acts 16:30-31
He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-you and your household.”
No.
Salvation comes from grace alone, faith alone, belief in Christ alone.
Really? I think Jesus would disagree.
God has given us a freewill so that we can reciprocate love back to Him. God will never leave us and no one can take our salvation away from us, BUT we can walk away from our salvation. We must be followers of Jesus Christ. Be faithful unto death and you will receive a crown of life. I have witnessed Christians walk away from their faith on multiple occasions.
Signed, Sealed, Delivered we’re in Christ.
Ephesians 1:13🕊️
“In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
What I've heard many times is that no you can't lose your salvation, but you can lose the closeness you have with God,
thats not in the Bible. Read the parable of the Sower and the seed. Thats the answer. These are all verses ppl you to promote their pro or against eternal security but all of them are to be understood with one question.......which soil is this?
Matthew 24:13
John 15:6
Romans 11:17-22
Galatians 5:4
John 6:37-40, 47
John 8
John 10
John 10:27-29
John 14:16-17
Romans 8:38
Romans 10:9
Romans 11:29
Ephesians 1:12-14
Ephesians 4:30
Philippians 1:16
Colossians 3:3
1 Peter 1:3-5
1 Peter 1:23
1 John 5:1,13
Jude 1:24-25
Hebrews 3:12
Hebrews 6:1-8
Hebrews 10:26-27
1 Timothy 1:19
1 Timothy 4:1
1 Timothy 5:15
2 Timothy 2:12
2 Timothy 4:3-10
James 5:19-29
1 John 1:7
II Peter 3:1-18
Jude 1:5
Jude 1:12
You are wrong, if salvation could be lost it wouldn't be salvation, it would be probation, what amount of sin would cause someone to lose salvation ? There is no guidelines, one sin would qualify loss... Now what ? Do you have the ability to remove yourself from God's hand ? If you somehow had the ability would you want to be removed ? Saved equals sealed ! Can't undo what God has done.
Well said - King David was a man after God's own heart and look at the mess He made. Thats why Jesus warned us to be on guard because the devil is a roaring lion. Anyone working hard to earn their salvation is being religious.
VERY TRUE BUT YOU CAN WITH YOUR DAD TOO BUT HES STILL YOUR DAD OR YOUR SON OR YOUR DAUGHTER BLOOD IS BLOOD
You cannot lose your salvation but you can lose Eternal Rewards.
The folks in Matt that Jesus never knew did not trust on Him alone for salvation. They trusted in him + sin management. The demons believe God exists but do not believe unto Him for salvation.
Because the demons can't believe unto Him for salvation. They knew Him before humans did, and they choose to rebel, their damnation was sealed from that moment, no salvation/forgiviness for them ever.
True but to be fair demons can never get salvation anyway. Romans 5 and the first few chapters of Hebrews shows clearly that angels cannot partake in the substitutionary atonement.
Exactly.
That is not even close to being Biblical!
Stop spewing lies like you know something.
Is this 'Born Again?'
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation ; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” II Corinthians 5:17
"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." - Matt 7:20
"Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples." - John 15:8
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"… by their fruits ye shall know them."
So the 'Symptoms' of being Born Again are 'bearing fruit?'
"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." John 15:2
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." - Matt 7:19
So, "Fruits" are apparently pretty important."
"For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." - Matt 12:50
"Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." John 14:23,24
So someone actually 'Born Again' will be found DOING... the will and commandments of God..?
So "Works" are part of what "Born Again" looks like?
That's probably 'WHY...' James says,
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." - James 2:26
Yea…, I'll bet he's trying to tell us something….
Our 'Salvation' is absolutely an act of Grace and cannot be earned. However, being "Born Again" as a "Child of God" comes with responsibilities. (A… "Child of 'GOD'...") and "a heart of flesh" that moves us to do what is right before the eyes of the Lord without further prompting and micro-managerial commands.
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; AND I WILL- NOT- BLOT OUT HIS NAME out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." - Rev 3:5
You can never cancel out one N.T. scripture with another, they are complimentary not contradictory.
"Born Again?
"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34
These are the WORDS of Jesus Christ from His own lips : (… and He's 'blotting out names'.)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." - Matt. 25:31-46
The Bible is written solely to the people who are going to hear and read it and have the heart to accept it - The Elect.
"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." - John 12:40
The people the Lord is talking about BELIEVE… they are saved - but they are not.
"21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matt 7:21-23
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"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1
Faith & Works do not contradict, 'works' are part of what "Born Again" looks like. "Worship in spirit and in truth." - John 4:24
No matter what 'deeper meanings' you believe you see in a scripture, and they go very deep, but they never contradict the face-value meaning of the verse(s) you are 'interpreting.' Let The Bible speak for itself - it never contradicts itself and Jesus Christ never subordinated HIS Word in His Gospels to Paul or anyone else… That would absolutely result in chaos. And it has.
"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34
"knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 20,21
That includes Churches, 'Scholars,' book writers and all of their conflicting doctrines and chaos without which there would be no "Christian Denominations." - 'Chaos.'
"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34
Let The 'Biblical Word' on the page speak for itself.
oh man, I needed this so much today ! Thank God for sending this to me ! God bless you guys !
I so appreciated the discussion on not being perfect but it doesn’t mean you’re not a Christian.
Yes I agree 👍🏾 💯
This was very encouraging, thank you, for the messages!
Therefore knowing the goodness and the severity of God, on those that fell severity, but toward thee goodness, if thou continue in thy goodness, otherwise thou also shall be cut off. The good news is that you can be grafted back into the vine. Don’t be fooled by these false teachers. You betray the Lord if you go back to your sin!
Were they broken off because of sin or because of unbelief?
I tend to ask similar questions. It is often said that salvation is a gift. But can't a gift be rejected? For instance, if someone were to give me a birthday gift and I had a falling out with the giver, I might reject the gift. Not that I would do that, but it's just an analogy.
What is eternal is the life. Not your possession of it. So yes, you can lose the gift of eternal life
Christ said he would lose none, scripture says you’re sealed unto the day of redemption, how do you account for these?
@@japexican007Once saved always saved isn't true. It's heretical.
@@japexican007 He won’t lose you, but you can walk away. And seals can be broken.
So from a purely logical point of view those passages don’t contradict the nearly 85 passages that say or convey you can forsake your salvation.
If a person loses his/her's salvation the John 3:16 would not be true. " For God so love the world he sent his only begotten Son, that who so ever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
@manaomialiusamoa6813 Yeah,
John 3:16 qouting ignores that this is an omission. It was already mentioned in John's gospel that one must be water baptized in order to gain this new everlasting life. So to read this passage but ignore the context of it is where heresies spread like the idea that all you gotta do is "believe and you are good". One must be baptized *water baptism* to be saved.
If you had the gutts to research Christianity on Google you will learn that's exactly how Christians always understood it pre reformation disaster.
Revelation 3:5..Says our name can be blotted out of the Book of Life...that means our name was in there but can be removed...if we do not overcome....
I fell from grace tryIng to stop vaping to be right with God. He left me the next day. I miss Him so much!!! feel hellbound😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Please get saved, God won’t save anyone who thinks they have to give up all their sins in order to be saved, he will not share his glory with you, it’s all about him, his sacrifice in the cross, his death and resurrection
Then you probably are. 😉
You might want to get some fire 🔥 insurance. . . . that stop drop and roll crap ain't going to work there !
*YES! YOU CAN.*
IN THE TRIBULATION.
How'd you come to that conclusion?
@@TheRealTrucidoreading the Bible by myself.
👍👍👍👍
Isaiah 59:1-2
👇🏼👇🏼👇🏼👇🏼
Hebrews 13:8
The amount of wisdom on that stage is staggering
Eternal life alone says it. If you have eternal life then that means it's eternal. It doesn't say temporary eternal life it says eternal eternal means never ending.
However, one may “think” ones has eternal life when in fact one may not have it.
This scripture clarifies things perfectly_
[20]The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
[21]“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
[22]None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.
[23]Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
[24]“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
[25]“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair?
[26]When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies.
[27]Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive.
[28]Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
[29]Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?
[30]“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
[31]Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?
[32]For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”
Ezekiel 18:20-32
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit. Who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance" (Hebrews 6:4,5,6)
This is super great, good questions and answers, I really enjoyed this and will pass this on to others