My sincere thanks to Dr. Berry @KenDBerryMD for being willing to come on and have this conversation. He didn't have to but he was genuinely happy to do it. Hopefully this cordial, respectful evaluation of different views based on scientific evidence helps viewers achieve clarity and make informed decisions.
Doctor, this was too long of an interview and I love everything you do. I went straight to the summary and take aways after skimming some of the chapters and having been a devotee of Dr Ken Berry for 18 months. I have now returned to my whole foods plant-based way of eating, low saturated fat and high fiber and reduce my LDL from 200 carnivore to 47 whole foods.
Sorry but I don't think these videos where you try to find common ground with obvious grifters are particularly helpful and may in fact only serve to grant them undue credibility. Which is why for example, Dr. Berry is willing to do it - because he knows you will treat him with kid gloves and therefore he gets something out of it. You can debunk these frauds (and have in the past) without engaging them personally and treating them with a respect they frankly don't deserve.
@@NutritionMadeSimple I don’t know how you do it Gil, I have the patience of a pissed off pitbull. The first BS I hear I go off. This is why I probably shouldn’t phone bank or canvas for these elections. Kudos to you for putting up with so much.
Ken Berry deserves prison time. I'm not sure if you are aware of this,but he's been disciplined by the medical board. He reused medical equipment on patients that could have spread HIV. He lies about being on the Carnivore diet. He continues to say he eats only animal products to sell himself to his followers. His wife Neisha has a channel where she cooks foods with plants and Ken is seen eating the food she makes. This guy is a liar and a fraud and doesn't deserve to have any respect. With all that being said, I'm still glad you had this video with him to prove that he knows nothing about science. Ken is one of the biggest quacks I've seen. It's scary how he has over 3 million followers and spreading misinformation.
This reminds me of a story of an English noble man, who in a despariging way told a Scotsman that the English feed oats to their horses and the Scots eat outs. The wise Scot said that's why the Scotds have such great people and the English have great horses.
I honestly walk away from Gil's interviews with a lesser view of myself, because I'll never have his level of patience... Is it wrong that I just want him to shatter someone's entire fundamental view of reality or am I just overly sadistic? On that note, never change Gil lol... Your patience is grounding. My constructive criticism, which I understand why you do it your way, but I think you 'let points of misinformation' go unchallenged. But that said, it's why you (Gil) can have a discussion, not a debate
I don't know if it's a technique or not but it's very effective, he stays calm and lets the guest jump in and talk as long as they want while he takes less time for himself but when he talks his comments are straight to the point and devastating
I am 78 years old and have been eating raw rolled oats blended with bananas, mango, pineapple and papaya for more than 50 years. Still going strong, brisk walking 2 hours 5 days a week. I am a strong believer in eating food as close to the earth possible without unnecessary processing.
Trump is almost 80. Doesn't exercise (except for golf), eats junk food, he's obese, yet he's sharp as a tac and has the energy of a 25-year-old, so junk food is healthy now?
This was one of the most surprising video on YT I have seen for a long long time. A lots of topics touched, a lot of disagreements... but everyhing calm and focused. Additionally some excurses for the audience to get them onboard if the discussion was moving to quickly. No screaming, no cursing, no personal attacks, no echo chamber pseudo discussion. I love it and subscribed.
I am an 82 year old Surgeon with no problems, still working. I have eaten oatmeal every day for all my life as did my other family members. My grand parents lived into their 90's. Fibre is essential. Scots and Irish ate oats from centuries ago and still do. Steel cut oats are the best.
Some say they will, and some say they won't, Some say they do, and some say they don't, Some say they shall, and some say they shan't, And some say they can, and some say they can't, All in all, it's all the same, But call me if there's any change. Some say there's nothing, and some say there's lots, Some say they've started, while some say they've stopped, Some say they're going, and some say they've been, Yes, some say they're looking, and some say they've seen, All in all, it's all the same, But call me if there's any change.
Instinctively I started rejecting the standard american diet about 20 years ago as a high school senior. It just made sense to me to drink water and only consume what exists in nature. Sure I have bread, cookies and pizza every now and then, but these are rare happenings. Fast forward 20 years and now we have access to these kinds of conversations between experts, and we can make our own decisions. I couldn't be more thrilled about the nutritional awakening happening on youtube. Everytime i read a comment from someone saying they cured metabolic disease or lost 100 lbs by challenging the staus quo it puts a smile on my face.
Excellent discussion. I appreciate Dr. Berry's sincere concern and hard work in this matter, but i've been a regular morning oatmeal eater for several years and have none of the metabolic issues that he speaks of. I will continue to eat oats, with extra nuts, berries, bananas, dates, chiaseeds, coconuts, flaxseeds, cinnamon, cloves and cardamom.
I think you and possibly GIl are giving this guy too much credit if you think he's "sincerely concerned". I think his "concern" is directly correlated to the number of clicks and $ he can get by fear-mongering and promoting fad diets.
I love how you approached this, kept an open mind until the end, tried to find common ground, and didn't disrespect him in any way even though you had a lot to disagree with. That is how debates should be. I've learned a lot from you and Dr. Berry. I believe it is important to expose yourself to people with opposing opinions, maybe it will strengthen your stance on your current beliefs or you could always learn something new. Thanks for this! 🙌
this video is a textbook battle of science vs story-telling. By having these debate videos Gil is illustrating what he's been teaching us all this time
Storytelling is a good word to use. I'm a former carnivore and devotee of Dr Ken Berry. LDL through the roof eating carnivore. Once I switch back after 18 months and jump started my whole food plant-based eating with a low dose statin did my LDL go down to 46. This carnivore crap is playing BS.
I followed Ken Berry for a while and his convincing words “probably and should be” encouraged me to go keto even though as far as I am aware I am not diabetic nor type 2 nor overweight. Within two weeks my blood pressure skyrocketed 190/115. I stopped immediately. My dad ate rolled oats every morning, and mixed vegetable and some form of fish or meat throughout the day for the best part of his life, never over weight and passed away at 97 years. He hardly ever visited the doctor.
I was carnivore/keto for 3 years. My blood pressure was 110, but at the end all the other important markers were very bad and I ruined my health. Now I am vegan again.
Caffeine does that to my BP, switched out coffee for black tea, problem solved. Wrist BP checker helped me figure it out after no diet helped. BMI of 24 and have MS so I have other issues, but enjoying my rolled oats, fish and broccoli. BP hangs out at 110/75 if I stay away from heavily processed foods, alcohol and keep my gluten intake low. I dose w/ 15 g's of NAG daily for my condition and my blood sugar is solid. Glucose isn't the problem, fructose and sucrose are the body destroyers.
I am a statistician not an anthropologist but I work with people who research human migrations in prehistory with a focus on the Americas and some groups focus on nutrition, life style adaptations and climate in particular. From this perspective, his point of "cows eat grass" is really really off on so many levels and betrays a level of lack of understanding. And Dr. Berry does present it as a "gotcha" argument, which baffles me. 1. Cows did not colonize the whole damn world by self-adapting to different climates and environments. If cows live in highly varied environments it's usually because their humans adapt them. Several species of human apes did colonize very large portions of the earth in varied climate conditions because we do not just "eat grass" or just "eat meat". 2. What are we measuring as beneficial nutrition? We measure outcomes for cows differently than we do for humans, for one, and that's just one of the issues with this argument. 3. when we look at paleo-anthropological evidence, that tells us very little about the "perfect" human diet. Eating to survive is far from eating to be your healthiest self!! Anyone who has been through a famine and lived to tell about it can attest to that. When people ate gras seeds to survive they were not leaving evidence for the best diet but evidence for the fact that humans can adapt to the situation as best they can. 4. The most important argument from the "evolutionary model" perspective: I feel like the paleo argumentation usually misses the causality entry point into the cycle. Animals (like cows, again...) go through a process of feature selection that benefit the transmission of genes of those individuals that can benefit from a particular environment, e.g., giraffes have long necks to reach tall greens; or elephants on Malta who are related to the straight tusked elephants of the European mainland but decreased in size dramatically due to insular dwarfism. Cows have the microbes in their guts to eat grass because they adapted to their environment. The fact that humans could clearly adapt to an unbelievable range of environments in lightning speed time should maybe clue some people in a bit to the fact that the comparison might be off a bit.
He didn't provide an argument, though. It was a one-sentence appeal to nature. He was trying to trick people using a fallacy. You can make the same justification for sunbathing: we evolved to be outside in the sun, and nature has done this experiment countless times, therefore sunbathing is good for our health. There is no evidence in it, it's a simple statement that seems true if you don't think about it in some cases and not in others depending on what you apply it to and your knowledge available at the moment. In the cow example, it seems true on the surface, knowing that cows evolved to eat grass, but again if you think about it, you might ask what type of grass is optimal? How much grass is optimal, etc. This highlights our limited understanding of the optimal types of grass, despite millions of years of "natural experimentation". In fact, farmers often supplement cow diets because the grass will often be nutritionally deficient.
I generally find all these anthropological arguments to be so horrendously bad. We are studying humans with randomized controlled trials as they are now, why the hell am I looking at anthropological data that is fraught with knowledge gaps and assumptions?
A debate is productive when the participants in it are interested in truths and are not tambourine behind inflexible positions. However, beyond the general researches and their results, a clinical approach is needed for each person and, in addition, personal experience. This discussion is in good context and has been productive
Dr Gil gives many of the people he responds to waaaaay too much credit when he goes in with the assumption that they are arguing in good faith. Dr Ken is on UA-cam to sell a narrative that is profitable to him, not to give evidence-based advice
Boom! 💥 You hit the nail on the head. He is making money and increasing his net worth. I'm a former follower and carnivore who sought out the truth and now have returned to whole foods plant-based eating and my health is better for it.
@@jeffj318I have watched and followed Dr Berry off and on for years; going back and forth between keto/carnivore and WFPB. Every time I find myself thinking “why did I fall back into this trap”! I feel best on real foods and eating at a caloric deficit to keep my weight at target. I’m 63 yo woman with hypothyroidism but all other markers are perfect, including blood pressure, cholesterol and glucose!! Keep it real and balanced!!!❣️
Just because someone make a profit does not automatically make him wrong. and like Gil, Dr. Berry isn"t selling any supplements or products like so many other You tubers on both sides Carnivore channels and vegan channels
I was poking around on Reddit, trying to find some information on the guy, and someone had pointed out that Ken Berry secretly grows vegetables on his own farm (called OB Farms or Oxford), and eats vegetables himself, and serves them to his family. So, he wasn't following a carnivore diet himself. If he is now, it's looking mostly like an attention getting stunt with close to zero real health benefit. Even if he really is sensitive to eating carbs, he should explain the specific conditions under which eating a carnivore diet would be appropriate. I DO know people who have IBS. I can see the vulnerable people all the time in the carnivore promoter comments: "I had lost sixty pounds with your diet! You're the best! I can't believe all the criticism! Look at all the people this man had helped!". What the affected person had really done, was cut out all the junk food they used to binge on uncontrollably (which had nary a mention). Carnivore is a low calorie diet in disguise, for them.
This dialog was fascinating. Whenever Dr. Berry has his beliefs questioned, he pivots, makes general statements about how difficult nutrition science is, and makes positive-sounding statements about how we should trust common sense, etc. His ideas are clearly anecdotal and opinionated and occasionally based on cherry-picked studies that he did not actually cite. The biggest win in this video is the first part where you teased out the absolutism that he used in his oats-are-bad video, and he had a terrible response to it. He did not back off of his absolute claims at all. Also, no one mentioned oat groats, just steel cut.
This is exactly why I am no longer a follower of Dr Ken Berry. He has so much BS I don't have enough time to shovel all of it into the manure spreader.
@@MrCalyhobut that doesn't make any sense. Quaker Oats had a financial motivation to promote oatmeal even before being bought by PepsiCo. Mentioning PepsiCo does seem like an attempt to tie the negative health halo of pepsi to oatmeal by association.
Just mixed oats with kefir, letting it ferment overnight on the counter. In the morning, I’m gonna mix in a banana and let the batter go over a pan to get nice oats-banana pancakes 😋
I respect Berry doing this even though it wasn't going to be easy for him, but he digs himself into a hole when he dismisses every study even though it's obvious he hasn't read them. This isn't how scientists should think? I´d respect him more if he just said "ok I haven't seen any of that maybe I´m wrong"
Here is what just happened: Gil stood on firmer ground. He did not waver. He spoke of science-studies, trials, data. Ken? He pushed aside the studies. Called them unreliable. Leaned on what he had seen in his patients, on mechanisms that made sense in his head but had no proof to back them up. Gil knew oatmeal could spike glucose. Exercise does the same, but no one says exercise is bad. Ken was worried. But he had no studies, no trials, only what he’d seen, a handful of cases that didn’t line up with what the broader science showed. On glycated hemoglobin, Gil was clear. Oatmeal didn’t make it worse, citing trial after trial, even for diabetics, and the numbers didn’t lie. Ken? He had nothing but his gut. Blood pressure was the same story. Gil had the numbers. Ken? He thought it would raise pressure. But he hadn’t seen a single study to back it up. Gil wasn’t blind to the flaws in nutrition science. But still, he relied on the best we had: randomized controlled trials, meta-analyses. Ken doubted it all, said the field was biased, but offered little more than doubt. Eat your oatmeal.
@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 Cooked porridge is disgusting slime. Uncooked oats, with seeds, dried fruit & flavourings (cinnamon, cocoa powder, ginger, protein powder, stevia) are delicious.
@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 I eat oatmeal every day with fruit, ground flax, and wheat germ. I also add unsweetened applesauce and unsweetened soymilk. Sometimes I add cinnamon, or peanut butter powder. I find it delicious and never get bored of it, because I can vary it by alternating the toppings. Adding cocoa powder can also add variety.
I've yet to see a single keto/carnivore proponent on UA-cam that wasn't at least a little bit emotionally invested in that diet/lifestyle and also hung up on the ancestor/historical aspect of human diet while not have any real research or data behind that assertion. For now I'm sticking with the "don't eat too much of one thing and don't eat too much" approach.
I agree, its only suggestive and theres plenty of evidence to suggest humans have eaten a very broad diet compared to other animals who do eat mainly meat. That said, I think there is no fixed diet, not only for all individuals, but at all points in time. It could, for example, be with dealing with the effects of anti-biotics that one may need to eat a low carbohydrate diet to reduce digestive issues, following by the reintroduction of a broader diet. Blood and tissue groups may also play a role. All the food we eat works together, both positively and negatively, this is why its so difficult to study given the interplay. We arer years away from have a conclusive picture as to the ideal diet for each individual at each point in time.
"don't eat too much of one thing and don't eat too much" This is going to be my new mantra. Along side: ""It is by Caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Java that: My thoughts acquire speed My hands acquire shakes The shakes become a warning. It is by Caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."" - @williambishop2384
I love the fact that you gave specific examples of trade off foods with different health scenarios - this sort of approach will do the most good and do the least harm if any. I have personal experience being scared away from all foods known to me until I found some sane voices to listen to. Before this was resolved, it did me significant harm which I am still recovering from.. Gil Carvalo is one of those voices from whom I started my recovery.
Excellent discussion. I am a physician in Canada. I have tried to guide my patients towards healthy/lifestyles for 25+ years. Not easy. Also not easy to keep up with studies etc. I feel your analyses are thoughtful and you apply the recommended highest rigor - clinical outcomes in good studies. I also really like the You Tube Channel "Viva Longevity(Formerly Plant Chompers) for bringing studies and thoughtful analyses to the forfront. Dr Berry is well spoken and articulate even convincing but I agree clinical outcomes/studies are most important not mechanisms. I dont agree with many things he says. However, I must say in the real world with " real patients " there is ALOT of biologic diversity and alot of surprises relative to the data/consensus. One of your videos discussed this idea as seen in "waterfalls plots" and diverse individual responses. Keep up the good work.
It sounds like you didn't find the "but rich people 4,000 years ago wouldn't have eaten oats" argument very persuasive. Shame on you for not following the science.
@@amycaruthers7858 Is this true? In what time period? I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is... During feudalism, peasants had little dietary diversity, consuming grains and little else; they died of dietary deficiencies. Rulers had more dietary diversity; they overconsumed game, fish, poultry, and other domesticated animals, and died of diseases of dietary excess such as heart disease and experienced conditions like infection and gout. Their mating behaviors also differed wildly, with rulers sex lives being somewhat more deliberate/controlled (often leading to a lack of genetic diversity among offspring). Further, many of the cultural cuisines associated with blue zones originated among poor and peasant classes using locally available foodstuffs rather than supply chains that were globalizing only a few hundred years ago. So what's the deep, historical point here?
I haven't even watched it yet and can't thank you enough for doing this. I've been waiting for this a long time. As far as I've seen all Dr. Berry does is go before "friendly" audiences, or his own channel of course, so it is good that someone is finally going to evaluate his claims.
Fantastic effort by both parties no matter which conclusions you take away. 2 fantastically prepared guys exchanging arguments and opinions like they came down from trees and are not monkeys anymore. I applaud the host for civility and special praise to @KenBerry for joining on foreign turf and standing up to some challenging questions about a video which is at least a few years old.
46 yo male 6'3 195lbs here. I do not care what anyone has to say about who's right or wrong with this interview. I know from someone who has to check blood sugar daily. If I eat oatmeal or any other high carb foods, my blood sugar goes into the 200s. In my 20s I could eat anything and be fine didn't start having problems until I got in my 30s.
I'm also a 46 yo male and have been eating oats for breakfast everyday for 20 years and I'm one of the healthiest people I know. Maybe they don't work for you but oats are great, eat your oats people.
These are symptoms of something that went wrong, blaming the symptoms is a wrong focus, the real way to solve any imbalance over sugar levels is to have a healthy gut bacteria, if people keep grifting over symptoms they will never find out the real cause of their problems, but I am happy that science is finally focusing on gut bacteria there is a great deal of research lately even looking at ways to strengthen gut bacteria even causing the body to remove any Alzheimer’s and Diabetes symptoms, we must focus on what we ingest every little thing we put into our body will affect the immune system it is your choice to ingest whatever you want but be aware your body will accumulate whatever damage you are making it causing inflammation, nutritional imbalances, among others ending with a chronic illness most likely, so choose wisely. Usually a gut bacteria doctor can help you to make smart choices.
I'd been enjoying steel cut oats for many years (no sweetener, no fruit, walnuts only) , but I'm VERY GLAD I checked my response via CGM. It spiked my blood sugar very high , and I don't eat it anymore. (Now I'm 100% grain-free.) Thanks for the excellent review and conversation.
a blood glucose spike is a normal response. did you check it again 2 hours later? Try adding some protein and some chia seeds to it., and take a nice 20 minute walk afterwords I use it before i exercise so it works perfectly for me. If its still spiked after a few hours it would be best to avoid for you, but a spike is normal after eating
A low fat whole food plant based diet over enough years prevents our cells from becoming insulin resistant. As long as they aren't insulin resistant, then (as with exercise spikes) blood sugar spikes are not a problem. The insulin goes into the cells to do what the insulin is supposed to do. Too much fat in the cells prevents that.
Yep, he literally goes from "too many Americans have metabolic issues, so I wouldn't recommend oatmeal" completely ignoring where the metabolic issues come from and that oatmeal or other (especially whole) grains in moderation did not cause them. Textbook definition of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
I love when you bring people from the other side of the fence to your podcast gil. It's so nice that you can respond directly to their rebuttals and see what they have to say when they're outside of their Echo chamber. I would also like to thank Dr Ken Berry for coming. It takes a lot of nerve to do something like this. I eat a mostly low-carb diet so I was very interested in this conversation.
The one thing about oats probably most if not all of followers of this channel know is that oat fields are still being sprayed with glyphosate (the ingredient in “Round Up” ) so Best buy organic oat groats/steel cut/rolled oats if you can, which seem to be best forms.
Thank you Gil and Dr. Berry for this frank conversation. You may have disagreed on various points, but you did it in such a respectful way. I encourage you to do a repeat. For topics I would like to have a discussion on the benefits of fruit, and vegetables, and meat. Also about the humanitarian/environmental aspects of our diet.
I always find it fascinating how one displays authority in medicine. I see Dr. Berry hanging stethoscopes in his office, displaying his degrees and signing into the zoom meeting with MD. Gil, who I would argue has more credentialed experience around nutritional research doesn’t highlight any of that. My fiancée is a provider and I notice that whenever I ask her a question about medicine, she’ll always say “I’ll look that up to confirm” or “that’s out of my scope or discipline.” I really wish Dr. Berry would be more interested in looking into experts around research, instead of relying on credentials and patient experience alone. This was a great exploration in the difference between ideology and data.
Any doctor or researcher worth their salt will explain the limits of their knowledge and the complexities of the issues. Metabolic processes are extremely complex, humans are complex, and on top of that we have an inordinate number of confounding variables that make his assertions absolutely silly.
I laughed out loud when Dr. Ken Berry said he was fighting against people who say things with authority... while pretending to be an authority on health and telling people what to think.
@@justaname999Perhaps if they're writing research articles they would specify limitations but I don't often see researchers or doctors mentioning this on YT.
@@kyotango In that case Gil's videos must be quite the revelation for you. I've never seen him do a video without the appropriate caveats. He will outline perfectly what we know, what we don't know and how some aspects might interact with results. And that should be a part of successful scientific communication. Without that we get BS science headlines.
This was a BS discussion. Anyone who knows Dr Ken Berry and his watched enough of his videos like I have and also explored all avenues understands oats can be good for you.
I’m a big fan of your show and really appreciate the detailed, evidence based information you share. I previously suggested the idea of shifting your talks to a podcast or audio version, as it would allow people like me to enjoy your content while multitasking. I just wanted to follow up and say I still think it would be a fantastic addition to your online presence. Keep up the great work!
Professor Tim Spector over in England demonstrated that porridge oats DID spike blood sugar in many people, including the professor, but not all, as part of the ZOE study. The British Professor’s advice was to use a CGM for a couple of weeks to see how YOU individually will respond to porridge oats, ie, does your blood glucose spike or not based on your metabolic status and genetics. The soluble fibre in oats (beta glycan?) is often hugely helpful in relieving colon problems so between bowel regularity and CGM data should help decide if it’s for you.
It's also worth noting that there's literally nothing wrong with glucose spikes as long as they're not sustained for long periods of time (days/weeks). There is exactly zero evidence that a short term glucose spike does any damage at all.
Most people who are pre diabetic, had been told to avoid eating naked carbs (such as oatmeal on its own), and to eat protein and fiber first, to stimulate more insulin secretion, and give your body more time to process the carbs in the meal. I feel that part, had been left out of the conversation, so, it had been oversimplified. I have greek yogurt before my oats with soy protein powder blended in. Then, berries with my oats. I think it's wrong to only discuss carbs in isolation. I had agreed with the statement that instant oats are less healthy than steel cut oats. Especially for people who have the condition.
ZOE sell glucose monitors. There is no evidence that glucose spikes cause damage in non diabetic individuals. Please don't get caught in this latest trend!
All I know is that ever time my husband and I eat oatmeal steel oaks, we get bloating in our stomach and our sugar is spiking significantly. Therefore we stopped eating it and have been able to lower our A1C and stomach area significantly.❤
Bloating would suggest some digestive sensitivity with oats. I am type 2 diabetic, and oats spike my blood sugar ONLY if I eat them alone. (Oatmeal and blueberries). As long as I also eat enough protein and fat with them, I am fine. I usually eat full fat Greek yogurt with it. No blood sugar spike.
Love the way Gil listens and tries to understand the other doctor’s point of view and they can even agree on a few points. Gil presented data and the doctor did not present or find a single trial where oatmeal increases a1c over time. You can’t throw all the research out the door. Gil looks at all the cumulative research as everyone should. The doctor said not to deal in absolutes, but he affirmed that oatmeal will harm people with no substantial evidence
You're a saint for doing this. Ken Berry reminds me of the saying, "Be open-minded. But not so open-minded that your brains fall out." Oats were poor people food. So what? Lobster used to be poor people food at one time. This guy.
Because poor people ate more of something it means it's unhealthy? Is that his argument (I haven't watched the video yet; just came to look at comments)? Refined white bread used to be rich people food; the poor people would have had more whole grains in their lowly brown bread.
This is why I stopped carnivore eating and returned to whole foods plant-based. My health is better, my constipation went away and my lipid panel actually looks better.
@@traceybell3673 Or what was cheap and available. Like in a 18th century prison you had to eat your lobster with with some side dish or starve... If you was a gladiator in the Roman Empire, you ate your ostrich drums and elephant and camel meat stew.
I had always wanted to eat oatmeal because I read of the several health benefits, but never had the time. About 15 years ago I wanted to add more protein to my diet and found people were adding oatmeal to their smoothie, so I thought I'd try it. It was pretty simple; 1/2 cup quick oats, banana, protein powder, frozen blueberries, water. In 6 months my cholesterol fell 20 points, which was more than 10%. My GP said he has patients on statins that haven't done that well. I said, "You should prescribe oatmeal."
How do you not have time for oats? Im out of the house 15 hours a day five days a week and rolled oats with frozen blueberries in the microwave is the easiest meal I can think of besides bananas.
I have the same smootie every evening, but with half an avocado instead of banana. I also add a spoonfull of chia seeds, psyllium husk and a bit of naturell youghurt. Will check my cholesterol soon.
Well done. But careful about eating blueberries and bananas together: a recent, much-quoted study has shown that bananas interfere with the absorption of flavanols which blueberries are valued for.
I soak steel cut oats in oat milk overnight. Then I eat it cold with walnuts, blueberries and orange and apple slices. Takes only the time to pour liquid, peel an orange, slice an apple, and sprinkle berries and walnuts.
I appreciate that Dr. Berry was willing to come on to the video and that Gil conducted it. It gives me an inside peek and Dr. Berry's thought process, but makes me even more trusting of Gil's videos. BTW. I was never a follower of Dr. Berry's advice, but see his videos a lot, and it would normally just add the the confusion if I gave it more weight.
What you guys did here is not easy, considering the view differences in some contexts. However, you were an absolute example of how these topics should be discussed. Thank you guys. Definitively following you both. Keep it up.
Type 2 diabetic here, love oats, grits and cream of wheat for breakfast. That was a default breakfast for almost fifty years. After my diagnosis of diabetes however, my CGM says my blood sugar level does not enjoy the experience. Yes N=1 data…
@@judithcervizzi6609 It's not even just no oil that's helping them, it's low saturated fat, which heavily blunts insulin sensitivity, but also slow digesting healthy carbs with lots of fiber, and also staying leaner and exercising. As an old book on diabetes says, which might end up controversial nowadays: The most significant factor in controlling diabetes is eating no more than is necessary for the activity level of the individual. I would say added sugars are the secondary important factor, and saturated fat thirdly, but also significant for overall health.
I'm in my mid 60s and eat a huge bowl of oatmeal with fruit and sometimes honey in it. Have been eating this for decades.. My fasting glucose is in the 80s,cholesterol levels are great without meds. Disagree with Dr Ken.
I was diagnosed with lymphoma in 2004 , I started eating oats with flaxseed for breakfast every morning and been doing that for 20 years. I'm 77 and in good health, I'm not on any pharmaceutical meds.
I'd been enjoying steel cut oats for a few years (no sweetener, no fruit, walnuts only) , but I'm VERY GLAD I checked my response via CGM. It spiked my blood sugar immediately, and I don't eat it anymore. (Now I'm 100% grain-free.) Thanks for the review.
Blood sugar isn't everything, though. Average matters more. Blood sugar (and pressure) spikes during exercise too, but that's healthy in a broader context. What was your average blood sugar? Ken Berry might have an A1c of 5.5 with no carbs, but a type 1 diabetic might have an A1c of 5 despite eating 500g of carbs a day, despite the spikes.
There was only one-sided open mindedness and that was on Gil’s side. His patience and graciousness were phenomenal given that Berry is a chiropractor who practices Scientology and he, Gil, is a medical doctor with a PhD in nutritional science, I believe. They are in no way peers in terms of their training…not in terms of their manners either. It was the first video from Gil I had difficulty watching. Oh, and my degrees in archaeology included courses in paleoethnobotany (aka archaeobotany) and medical anthropology. The so-called facts about historical use of oats that Berry spewed belong buried deep in a midden.
This is why I love Gil and raise an eyebrow at people like Ken who ignore ALL the data and call all nutrition science BS. ALL? it is laughable. great job keeping it amicable.
Reality is, a majority of people have issues with blood sugar and would benefit greatly from significantly reducing their carb intake. Type 2 diabetes is rampant. Nothing applies to everyone.
I've watched an unhealthy amount of online 'health' content and am pretty aware of how much 'story telling' underpins the movements, but it's fascinating to watch someone have their arguments calmly deconstructed and pulled apart in a format like this. Preaching to the converted is one thing and a lot of these influencers do well in their echo chambers, but talking to someone who has attempted to examine the data with as little bias as possible is something else. Tought discussion to get through with the ideological rants at times, but worth it.
I listen to Dr. B because he was a practising Doctor has seen what high carb diets do to peoples health. Plus he is polite with his views and his experiences. Most of the comments on this site are rather rude about Dr.B. its a shame. Oat eaters should allow for difference in health populations ( and Americans are not healthy ) if the stats are to be believed.
my takeaway: If you are Diabetic stay away from Oats because it will have bigger and longer spike of your blood sugar if you are Pre-Diabetic stay away rom Oats because it will have bigger and longer spike of your blood sugar if you are not sure if you are Pre-Diabetic get a CGM to check how your body will react to Oats within 2hrs and after 2hrs. If you are healthy you can eat Oats as long sa you dont put "High sugar / syrup" on it When you become overweight it's time to get a CGM to check how your body responds to Oats Thank you for this informative discussions.
You will be able to do that for many long and healthy years if you do everything else right. Your brain might not benefit from your viewing choice, however. Once was enough for me!
Very well done Gil. Love listening to your videos. You are my go to for health information as I trust you're only agenda is to present all evidence in an unbiased way.
All i can say, i recently starting using a Stelo CGM to monitor glucose levels. As a prediabetic, I'm just testing my body's responses to various foods. So far, 1/4 cup of steel cut oats (no topping/addins) consumed in isolation caused the first dangerous spike that lasted 4 hours to return to normal. It spiked from 105 to 250+ - exceeding the sensor's range. A blood prick indicated 257. Just one data point. But was super surprising. Testing continues.
Thank you. It seems that Dr. Berry had at least one good thought: you should try out the meals and measure if possible their effects. Do not trust blindly the studies and doctors.
Wow that's crazy I'm fit and make gainer shakes with steel cut oats blue berries hemp seeds walnuts bananas for breakfast it's like 1k calories but i get a huge crash after i drink it. Now that i think about it it's probrably a huge insulin spike causing the crash yikes
I have perfect metabolic health and have been eating oatmeal for at least 30 years, at least. Gil, you're name should be GOLD. Thank you for enduring this and interjecting truth where it is so dearly needed. From the top, my reactions... Anthropological history on oats? who gives AF! It was considered food for horses and livestock... so... food for the poor, well, the king's diet comes with the king's diseases, hence we have things like the hispanic paradox, right out the gate Berry is totally derailed. Adaptation, 8:46 and he's said nothing really meaningful, human outcomes matter in our current disposition. If adaptation matters then lets adapt to the most sustainable and compassionate, safest foods. Not eating animals which requires adapting to the most violent jobs, the most unsustainable practices that result in over 20,000 CAFO's in the US alone that are toxic to surrounding communities and the leading cause of deforestation, desertification, aquatic dead zones, species extinction, antibiotic resistant bacteria, deadly pathogens and zoonotic diseases that kill millions of people, and ultimate increase risk for chronic diseases that we didn't anthropologically live long enough to encounter. Thank god Gil responded intelligently, unfortunately Berry interrupted constantly up to the 11:20 minutes, cows should eat grass? WTF does this have to do with anything Berry? It's a HORRIBLE analogy. There are literally billions of people that don't eat meat and many of them come from at least thousands of years religious history surrounding this. Ok, now 16:00 in and we're getting to the heart of this. He completely omitted groat oats. WTF has a serious conversation about oats and omits the most healthful oat? So annoying... Has Berry not heard of the second meal effect? "Eating whole oat groats can reduce blood sugar and insulin responses after a meal. This is because oat groats are a good source of soluble fiber, which forms a gel in the stomach and slows down digestion." So, essentially Berry is trying to appeal to vulnerable sick people, not healthy people who want to stay healthy or sick people who want to become healthy thus far at the 20:29 mark. 22:16 The problem with his appeal to a sick population with metabolic disease is that PEOPLE ARE REVERSING THEIR METABOLIC DISEASES GOING ON A WHOLE FOOD VEGAN DIET BERRY!!!!!!!! 29:30 in we're supposed to appeal to Berry's experience? yet I have doctors on my channel who have been practicing twice as long as he has and even longer who wholeheartedly would disagree with Berry. So, it's not just the science Berry, it's also people with more experience and a better record as well. 36:10 is that an oxymoron, enjoy a bowl of oatmeal, only if you're a m0r0n berry. I add berries to my oatmeal, dates, ceylon cinnamon, fresh ground clove, cardamom, fresh ground flax, etc... it's called developing a sophisticated palate. I brought my father a bowl of this last week when his power was out from hurricane helene and he said it was the best meal he's had a very long time, he LOVED IT. Nothing taste better than healthy feels, but even this taste awesome. But I suppose Berry has an acquired taste for rotting flesh and can't understand something so healthy and natural and clean being delicious. Berry's n of 1 experiment, to try eating steel cut (instead of groats for some reason) 38:00, it would be interesting to see if he has an excursion. But, the problem with this n of 1 is, well, his horrible diet probably has him insulin resistant. (nice that Gil ended up covering this at the end :) ). 20:30 Berry, it does matter how long the excursion lasts because the longer blood glucose is sustained the more likely reactions will occur with proteins or lipids. It's about time and concentration, not just concentration. Glycation takes time. 42:40 so now Berry acknowledge the time variable, he's so inconsistent. 53:00 Berry's "main concern" is people saying oats are going to cure and solve everything. NO ONE IS SAYING ONE FOOD FOR ONE MEAL A DAY IS GOING TO DO ANYTHING MAGICAL. He is trying to weasel out of his fraudulence. Organic oats, ideally groat oats, are a perfect food along with other grains, legumes, greens, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs & spices. When eating a well planned whole food vegan diet oats are excellent Berry. If a person is sick then they need to find a way to get their lifestyle right so they can consume these whole foods, not take your meds or horrible dietary advice and avoid these whole vegan foods. 55:00 again Berry is trying to weasel out, it's such common quackery to overgeneralize and throw carbs under the bus and get vulnerable people confused who don't have time to question and discern the unspoken nuance. No, don't say oats are bad and then later say you meant quick oats loaded with sugar and a bunch of other ingredients. You could have qualified, or are you saying you think your audience is too ignorant to understand this distinction or you're just trying to mislead people? 57:00 he suggested to patients to eat oatmeal with other things like banana and said their glucose spiked, it could have been the banana dude, DUH! 104:30 Berry said if all the people watching his video stopped eating oats it would not impact their health negatively. What?????? That is just insane to say, what are they replacing it with? Obviously that is a very ignorant, like much of what Berry says, comment. 106:50 Berry's overgeneralized opinion of how corrupt science is says more about him than it does about science. Then he goes back to what our ancestors did, he clearly doesn't know what antagonistic pleiotropy means. 108:15 wow, so Berry is going to interrupt, overtalk Gil, and talk most of the time repeating himself and putting words in Gil's mouth that Gil never said and then he's going to say he's got to bounce. What a typical clown move. Baker did the same thing with Nick the Nutrivore. 111:45 Berry is now going to suggest that the only way to eat oats is to eat it for every meal and snacks too. No one is suggesting this. When we teach people about what to eat we suggest a balanced, varied diet of legumes, greens, grains, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs & spices. Berry makes it out like we're saying just eat oats? 112:45 so Berry is going to waste more time after saying he's out of time and repeat himself again saying research is junk. So, in other words he knows nothing and therefore can't say anything. He can only go off of his clinical experience, yet those with more than twice his experience and having better results apparently don't matter either. He's pure clown. Nice wrap up Gil putting mechanistic theories in their place and human outcomes at the top. As for people testing themselves, I've heard some doctors having a problem with this. I don't recall the exact reasons why. But, I can imagine one may be misunderstanding exactly what is causing things to happen (e.g. a second meal effect or not having one). Keeping a food diary along with that of course may help hone in on things though and of course consulting with your doctor and ideally one that practices lifestyle medicine.
I appreciated points from each of you. For a Part 2, though, I think it'd be fair if it begins with you, Gil, elaborating on your positions in some depth, the way your guest did at the start of this video. -- Thank you for doing this!
So if we are gonna go by anecdote, I’ve been eating oats every day (I have the same breakfast every day), and I add oatmilk to my coffee to top it off. Been doing this for about 5 years now, nothing has happened to me, I’m as healthy as I’ve ever been.
I've been eating oats every day for decades and I have a lot of chronic health issues, constant gut pain, joint pain & bad itchy skin. But I doubt it's related to oats, probably genetic or pathogenic.
I think there are likely to be people who predominantly follow two different philosophies that are watching this video. After years of videos, books, and studies that I've read, I lean heavily on the side of fellow physician Dr. Berry. However, this was a great example of proper discourse.
As a two-year carnivore who was able to reverse auto immune disease, fix my decades long digestive issues and lose weight, I will freely admit that Gill easily won this debate hands-down. Dr. Barry was extremely under prepared, and his arguments were less than convincing. In fact, they were silly at times. This was a great video and overall a very well presented debate. Thank you gentlemen…
Many single-food diet fads have become popular over the years. They all have followers who swear by them. I'm most familiar with the rice diet, but there are others. I think people find them useful because they drop their calorie intake substantially and stop eating inflammatory fast food and junk food. It becomes a problem when people get fanatical about the diet and stay on it too long. Long-term single-food diets are a good way to get scurvy and other nasty diseases. I reversed my auto-immune disease with a whole food plant-based diet and a lot of self-discipline.
I don't think he was willing to be "prepared" in the way you might of wanted him to be. In fact he may never be. He has a very rigid belief system that is irrational and not based on science, or he is just trying to make money out of mistruths. Probably the former though.
Thx for an intelligent and civil discussion between two medical professionals. If one keeps an open mind this can create an atmosphere of awareness to stimulate us to think for ourselves about our dietary intake which is the main point in my mind.
Believing oatmeal raises blood pressure is a wild thing to believe. A personal bias I have, is when someone has one way out there opinion, I have a hard time believing anything they say. If you think that Earth is flat, I have a hard time taking advice from you in financial matters. This of course is my own personal bias, which I must recognize. And I will try to give his other opinions the weight that they deserve.
What do you mean the Earth is not flat? What's next, gonna tell me that Earth is not rulled by a lizard/vampire/alien hybrid? Don't make me laugh, it's gonna make my tinfoil hat fall off. Can't let those 5G waves get into my brain and give me COVID...
No need to give his opinion any thought. He is just full of BS. I am a former carnivore of 18 months and I speak the truth. I return to whole foods plant-based and my health has never been better and my LDL is not 200.
I even sprout my oats grouts and it's delicious and nutritious. The phytic acid is neutralized by the germination process. Concerning carbs. I don't have much issue with them, I avoid bad quality fats, such as seed oils and saturated fats to prevent the free fatty acids from causing insulin resistance.
I have never heard dr Berry like this. Suddenly things are more relative. Thank you Gil. :) I have been vegan for 30 years this year and I have eaten so much oats that I should be half dead by now but my blood works are great. Except for iron levels, but I had that as a kid too when I ate meat. In Sweden where I live we have Blutsaft though, really good vegan drink for elevating iron levels so I'm okey as long as I stick to that regularly.
I don't know for how long it has an effect or if you can counteract it by combining the oats, but from what I've seen, the phytates in oats and other plant foods can interfere with iron absorption. If you haven't already, check to see what other ingredients you can add to increase the absorption rate
Thank you, Ken & Gil. I could not watch this debate as you Ken kept steamrolling Gil and did not give him room as he politely tried to set up his viewpoints. We all enjoy Gil's view points as he always sites the scientific data to back them and most of us are here for science-based nutrition and not personal anecdotes.
Plant based works for me. After I started eating oats and berries for breakfast every morning my blood pressure is under control and I have lost weight.
My sincere thanks to Dr. Berry @KenDBerryMD for being willing to come on and have this conversation. He didn't have to but he was genuinely happy to do it. Hopefully this cordial, respectful evaluation of different views based on scientific evidence helps viewers achieve clarity and make informed decisions.
Doctor, this was too long of an interview and I love everything you do. I went straight to the summary and take aways after skimming some of the chapters and having been a devotee of Dr Ken Berry for 18 months. I have now returned to my whole foods plant-based way of eating, low saturated fat and high fiber and reduce my LDL from 200 carnivore to 47 whole foods.
Sorry but I don't think these videos where you try to find common ground with obvious grifters are particularly helpful and may in fact only serve to grant them undue credibility. Which is why for example, Dr. Berry is willing to do it - because he knows you will treat him with kid gloves and therefore he gets something out of it. You can debunk these frauds (and have in the past) without engaging them personally and treating them with a respect they frankly don't deserve.
@@NutritionMadeSimple I don’t know how you do it Gil, I have the patience of a pissed off pitbull. The first BS I hear I go off. This is why I probably shouldn’t phone bank or canvas for these elections. Kudos to you for putting up with so much.
@@adamrischHe gives him way too much respect.
Ken Berry deserves prison time. I'm not sure if you are aware of this,but he's been disciplined by the medical board. He reused medical equipment on patients that could have spread HIV. He lies about being on the Carnivore diet. He continues to say he eats only animal products to sell himself to his followers. His wife Neisha has a channel where she cooks foods with plants and Ken is seen eating the food she makes. This guy is a liar and a fraud and doesn't deserve to have any respect. With all that being said, I'm still glad you had this video with him to prove that he knows nothing about science. Ken is one of the biggest quacks I've seen. It's scary how he has over 3 million followers and spreading misinformation.
This reminds me of a story of an English noble man, who in a despariging way told a Scotsman that the English feed oats to their horses and the Scots eat outs. The wise Scot said that's why the Scotds have such great people and the English have great horses.
😂😂😂😂🤣This is hilarious! I'm gonna start using it from now on.
I am here to present Gil with this extreme patience award 🥇
I am 10 minutes in and the interruptions are already brutal.
I honestly walk away from Gil's interviews with a lesser view of myself, because I'll never have his level of patience...
Is it wrong that I just want him to shatter someone's entire fundamental view of reality or am I just overly sadistic?
On that note, never change Gil lol... Your patience is grounding. My constructive criticism, which I understand why you do it your way, but I think you 'let points of misinformation' go unchallenged. But that said, it's why you (Gil) can have a discussion, not a debate
The patience of a saint, for real.
The patience of Job!
I don't know if it's a technique or not but it's very effective, he stays calm and lets the guest jump in and talk as long as they want while he takes less time for himself but when he talks his comments are straight to the point and devastating
I am 78 years old and have been eating raw rolled oats blended with bananas, mango, pineapple and papaya for more than 50 years. Still going strong, brisk walking 2 hours 5 days a week. I am a strong believer in eating food as close to the earth possible without unnecessary processing.
Trump is almost 80. Doesn't exercise (except for golf), eats junk food, he's obese, yet he's sharp as a tac and has the energy of a 25-year-old, so junk food is healthy now?
@@terryolay4613collect enough anecdotes and you’ll realize that vegans are on to something
This was one of the most surprising video on YT I have seen for a long long time.
A lots of topics touched, a lot of disagreements... but everyhing calm and focused. Additionally some excurses for the audience to get them onboard if the discussion was moving to quickly.
No screaming, no cursing, no personal attacks, no echo chamber pseudo discussion. I love it and subscribed.
@@naalsocomment9449 that's because trump is not here. Refreshing
Although I thought Gil irritated at times, but who wouldn’t be!
I am an 82 year old Surgeon with no problems, still working. I have eaten oatmeal every day for all my life as did my other family members. My grand parents lived into their 90's. Fibre is essential. Scots and Irish ate oats from centuries ago and still do. Steel cut oats are the best.
Have you tried whole oat groats? I'll never go back to steel cut oats. Rolled or whole groats for me, no middle ground.
What does it matter that only poor people ate oats? Rich people are usually not an example of healthy eating, only excessive and indulgence eating
Yes, gout, heart disease, etc. go with "rich folks" diets
Exactly!!!!!
Well said!
Very good point.
Rich people are on averge much healthier than poor people.
@@Leiska86No but they have access to better health care.
I an 85 and have eaten oats every day. Still going to continue. X
May i ask are you a diabetic?
I'm almost 80, same here. I'm healthy and fit, normal weight, no blood sugar issues.
Some say they will, and some say they won't,
Some say they do, and some say they don't,
Some say they shall, and some say they shan't,
And some say they can, and some say they can't,
All in all, it's all the same,
But call me if there's any change.
Some say there's nothing, and some say there's lots,
Some say they've started, while some say they've stopped,
Some say they're going, and some say they've been,
Yes, some say they're looking, and some say they've seen,
All in all, it's all the same,
But call me if there's any change.
@@RaveyDavey wow!!!
@@RaveyDavey i can contimue to eat my roll oats evyday
I am going to enjoy eating a bowl oatmeal after watching this video.
Instinctively I started rejecting the standard american diet about 20 years ago as a high school senior. It just made sense to me to drink water and only consume what exists in nature. Sure I have bread, cookies and pizza every now and then, but these are rare happenings.
Fast forward 20 years and now we have access to these kinds of conversations between experts, and we can make our own decisions. I couldn't be more thrilled about the nutritional awakening happening on youtube. Everytime i read a comment from someone saying they cured metabolic disease or lost 100 lbs by challenging the staus quo it puts a smile on my face.
Excellent discussion. I appreciate Dr. Berry's sincere concern and hard work in this matter, but i've been a regular morning oatmeal eater for several years and have none of the metabolic issues that he speaks of. I will continue to eat oats, with extra nuts, berries, bananas, dates, chiaseeds, coconuts, flaxseeds, cinnamon, cloves and cardamom.
I think you and possibly GIl are giving this guy too much credit if you think he's "sincerely concerned". I think his "concern" is directly correlated to the number of clicks and $ he can get by fear-mongering and promoting fad diets.
Boom! 💥 You got that right.
My great grandma's been eating oats since before WWII and her 92nd birthday is up and coming in a few weeks. I'll take it from her and stick to it.
Same here.
I’m eating a big bowl of this right now! Yum! Exactly as you describe, minus the cloves 😊
I love how you approached this, kept an open mind until the end, tried to find common ground, and didn't disrespect him in any way even though you had a lot to disagree with. That is how debates should be. I've learned a lot from you and Dr. Berry. I believe it is important to expose yourself to people with opposing opinions, maybe it will strengthen your stance on your current beliefs or you could always learn something new. Thanks for this! 🙌
this video is a textbook battle of science vs story-telling. By having these debate videos Gil is illustrating what he's been teaching us all this time
Absolutely ❤️🇬🇧
Storytelling is a good word to use. I'm a former carnivore and devotee of Dr Ken Berry.
LDL through the roof eating carnivore. Once I switch back after 18 months and jump started my whole food plant-based eating with a low dose statin did my LDL go down to 46. This carnivore crap is playing BS.
He's the gOAT!
so true
@@darthsmokester4759You didn't...
An expert knows everything, a genius knows he doesn’t. Top work Dr GC
I followed Ken Berry for a while and his convincing words “probably and should be” encouraged me to go keto even though as far as I am aware I am not diabetic nor type 2 nor overweight. Within two weeks my blood pressure skyrocketed 190/115. I stopped immediately. My dad ate rolled oats every morning, and mixed vegetable and some form of fish or meat throughout the day for the best part of his life, never over weight and passed away at 97 years. He hardly ever visited the doctor.
I was carnivore/keto for 3 years. My blood pressure was 110, but at the end all the other important markers were very bad and I ruined my health. Now I am vegan again.
Caffeine does that to my BP, switched out coffee for black tea, problem solved. Wrist BP checker helped me figure it out after no diet helped. BMI of 24 and have MS so I have other issues, but enjoying my rolled oats, fish and broccoli. BP hangs out at 110/75 if I stay away from heavily processed foods, alcohol and keep my gluten intake low. I dose w/ 15 g's of NAG daily for my condition and my blood sugar is solid. Glucose isn't the problem, fructose and sucrose are the body destroyers.
@@mesterferenc2688 i think be a moderate eater is the best
just one month on keto my blood pressure dropped back into normal range
@@bobhope8767 lucky you.
I am a statistician not an anthropologist but I work with people who research human migrations in prehistory with a focus on the Americas and some groups focus on nutrition, life style adaptations and climate in particular. From this perspective, his point of "cows eat grass" is really really off on so many levels and betrays a level of lack of understanding. And Dr. Berry does present it as a "gotcha" argument, which baffles me.
1. Cows did not colonize the whole damn world by self-adapting to different climates and environments. If cows live in highly varied environments it's usually because their humans adapt them.
Several species of human apes did colonize very large portions of the earth in varied climate conditions because we do not just "eat grass" or just "eat meat".
2. What are we measuring as beneficial nutrition? We measure outcomes for cows differently than we do for humans, for one, and that's just one of the issues with this argument.
3. when we look at paleo-anthropological evidence, that tells us very little about the "perfect" human diet. Eating to survive is far from eating to be your healthiest self!! Anyone who has been through a famine and lived to tell about it can attest to that. When people ate gras seeds to survive they were not leaving evidence for the best diet but evidence for the fact that humans can adapt to the situation as best they can.
4. The most important argument from the "evolutionary model" perspective: I feel like the paleo argumentation usually misses the causality entry point into the cycle. Animals (like cows, again...) go through a process of feature selection that benefit the transmission of genes of those individuals that can benefit from a particular environment, e.g., giraffes have long necks to reach tall greens; or elephants on Malta who are related to the straight tusked elephants of the European mainland but decreased in size dramatically due to insular dwarfism. Cows have the microbes in their guts to eat grass because they adapted to their environment. The fact that humans could clearly adapt to an unbelievable range of environments in lightning speed time should maybe clue some people in a bit to the fact that the comparison might be off a bit.
❤
thank you for saving me an hour and half, I enjoyed your take
He didn't provide an argument, though. It was a one-sentence appeal to nature. He was trying to trick people using a fallacy. You can make the same justification for sunbathing: we evolved to be outside in the sun, and nature has done this experiment countless times, therefore sunbathing is good for our health. There is no evidence in it, it's a simple statement that seems true if you don't think about it in some cases and not in others depending on what you apply it to and your knowledge available at the moment.
In the cow example, it seems true on the surface, knowing that cows evolved to eat grass, but again if you think about it, you might ask what type of grass is optimal? How much grass is optimal, etc. This highlights our limited understanding of the optimal types of grass, despite millions of years of "natural experimentation". In fact, farmers often supplement cow diets because the grass will often be nutritionally deficient.
It’s because that’s his grift the whole eat carnivore nonsense.
I generally find all these anthropological arguments to be so horrendously bad. We are studying humans with randomized controlled trials as they are now, why the hell am I looking at anthropological data that is fraught with knowledge gaps and assumptions?
A debate is productive when the participants in it are interested in truths and are not tambourine behind inflexible positions. However, beyond the general researches and their results, a clinical approach is needed for each person and, in addition, personal experience. This discussion is in good context and has been productive
Berry pretends to be flexible, but he's really not. He wont change any of his behavior after this.
Dr Gil gives many of the people he responds to waaaaay too much credit when he goes in with the assumption that they are arguing in good faith. Dr Ken is on UA-cam to sell a narrative that is profitable to him, not to give evidence-based advice
Boom! 💥 You hit the nail on the head. He is making money and increasing his net worth. I'm a former follower and carnivore who sought out the truth and now have returned to whole foods plant-based eating and my health is better for it.
@@jeffj318I have watched and followed Dr Berry off and on for years; going back and forth between keto/carnivore and WFPB. Every time I find myself thinking “why did I fall back into this trap”! I feel best on real foods and eating at a caloric deficit to keep my weight at target. I’m 63 yo woman with hypothyroidism but all other markers are perfect, including blood pressure, cholesterol and glucose!! Keep it real and balanced!!!❣️
Felt the same. This honestly felt like a waste of Gil’s time.
Just because someone make a profit does not automatically make him wrong. and like Gil, Dr. Berry isn"t selling any supplements or products like so many other You tubers on both sides Carnivore channels and vegan channels
I was poking around on Reddit, trying to find some information on the guy, and someone had pointed out that Ken Berry secretly grows vegetables on his own farm (called OB Farms or Oxford), and eats vegetables himself, and serves them to his family. So, he wasn't following a carnivore diet himself. If he is now, it's looking mostly like an attention getting stunt with close to zero real health benefit. Even if he really is sensitive to eating carbs, he should explain the specific conditions under which eating a carnivore diet would be appropriate. I DO know people who have IBS. I can see the vulnerable people all the time in the carnivore promoter comments: "I had lost sixty pounds with your diet! You're the best! I can't believe all the criticism! Look at all the people this man had helped!". What the affected person had really done, was cut out all the junk food they used to binge on uncontrollably (which had nary a mention). Carnivore is a low calorie diet in disguise, for them.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." ~Upton Sinclair
How true is that!!
This dialog was fascinating. Whenever Dr. Berry has his beliefs questioned, he pivots, makes general statements about how difficult nutrition science is, and makes positive-sounding statements about how we should trust common sense, etc. His ideas are clearly anecdotal and opinionated and occasionally based on cherry-picked studies that he did not actually cite. The biggest win in this video is the first part where you teased out the absolutism that he used in his oats-are-bad video, and he had a terrible response to it. He did not back off of his absolute claims at all. Also, no one mentioned oat groats, just steel cut.
Because Pepsi co bought Quaker, oats must be unhealthy. Love the scientific rigor on that one.
Yes. Goes to prove you don't have to be smart to be a Dr.
This is exactly why I am no longer a follower of Dr Ken Berry. He has so much BS I don't have enough time to shovel all of it into the manure spreader.
Exactly!
@@MrCalyhobut that doesn't make any sense. Quaker Oats had a financial motivation to promote oatmeal even before being bought by PepsiCo. Mentioning PepsiCo does seem like an attempt to tie the negative health halo of pepsi to oatmeal by association.
Coca Cola sells water therefore water is bad for you.
I was eating oatmeal when this came through. Timings everything!
Me too. Jumbo overnight oats with chia seeds and fruit. Delicious 😀
@@BenjaminimizeThis is the way to do it.
I'm about to eat my oatmeal too while listening to this in the background
Just mixed oats with kefir, letting it ferment overnight on the counter. In the morning, I’m gonna mix in a banana and let the batter go over a pan to get nice oats-banana pancakes 😋
I respect Berry doing this even though it wasn't going to be easy for him, but he digs himself into a hole when he dismisses every study even though it's obvious he hasn't read them. This isn't how scientists should think? I´d respect him more if he just said "ok I haven't seen any of that maybe I´m wrong"
If he was the kind of person to do that he wouldn't do what he does on UA-cam to begin with lol.
@@mikeywallis4085❤🇬🇧
❤🇬🇧
MDs are not trained to be scientists.
exactly this
Thank you both for having an intelligent conversation without demeaning your opponents position. Refreshing.
I appreciated the respectful conversation. Thanks for the interview.
Here is what just happened: Gil stood on firmer ground. He did not waver. He spoke of science-studies, trials, data. Ken? He pushed aside the studies. Called them unreliable. Leaned on what he had seen in his patients, on mechanisms that made sense in his head but had no proof to back them up.
Gil knew oatmeal could spike glucose. Exercise does the same, but no one says exercise is bad. Ken was worried. But he had no studies, no trials, only what he’d seen, a handful of cases that didn’t line up with what the broader science showed.
On glycated hemoglobin, Gil was clear. Oatmeal didn’t make it worse, citing trial after trial, even for diabetics, and the numbers didn’t lie. Ken? He had nothing but his gut.
Blood pressure was the same story. Gil had the numbers. Ken? He thought it would raise pressure. But he hadn’t seen a single study to back it up.
Gil wasn’t blind to the flaws in nutrition science. But still, he relied on the best we had: randomized controlled trials, meta-analyses. Ken doubted it all, said the field was biased, but offered little more than doubt.
Eat your oatmeal.
I don't eat oatmeal because I frankly don't really like it that much, but this exchange made me want to start.
@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 Cooked porridge is disgusting slime. Uncooked oats, with seeds, dried fruit & flavourings (cinnamon, cocoa powder, ginger, protein powder, stevia) are delicious.
@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 I eat oatmeal every day with fruit, ground flax, and wheat germ. I also add unsweetened applesauce and unsweetened soymilk. Sometimes I add cinnamon, or peanut butter powder. I find it delicious and never get bored of it, because I can vary it by alternating the toppings. Adding cocoa powder can also add variety.
Legend comment 👊
Love me some oats! 😅
This is why interviewing researchers is far more informative than interviewing GP doctors
I've yet to see a single keto/carnivore proponent on UA-cam that wasn't at least a little bit emotionally invested in that diet/lifestyle and also hung up on the ancestor/historical aspect of human diet while not have any real research or data behind that assertion. For now I'm sticking with the "don't eat too much of one thing and don't eat too much" approach.
I agree, its only suggestive and theres plenty of evidence to suggest humans have eaten a very broad diet compared to other animals who do eat mainly meat.
That said, I think there is no fixed diet, not only for all individuals, but at all points in time. It could, for example, be with dealing with the effects of anti-biotics that one may need to eat a low carbohydrate diet to reduce digestive issues, following by the reintroduction of a broader diet. Blood and tissue groups may also play a role.
All the food we eat works together, both positively and negatively, this is why its so difficult to study given the interplay. We arer years away from have a conclusive picture as to the ideal diet for each individual at each point in time.
I think the glycation argument is valid, at least in either diseased states or advanced biohacking optimization.
yeah and even their ancestral logic is flawed every single time.
"don't eat too much of one thing and don't eat too much" This is going to be my new mantra.
Along side:
""It is by Caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the juice of Java that:
My thoughts acquire speed
My hands acquire shakes
The shakes become a warning.
It is by Caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.""
- @williambishop2384
what I have yet to hear is a very clear reason why would should give a shit what we ate in the past.
I love the fact that you gave specific examples of trade off foods with different health scenarios - this sort of approach will do the most good and do the least harm if any.
I have personal experience being scared away from all foods known to me until I found some sane voices to listen to. Before this was resolved, it did me significant harm which I am still recovering from.. Gil Carvalo is one of those voices from whom I started my recovery.
Excellent discussion. I am a physician in Canada. I have tried to guide my patients towards healthy/lifestyles for 25+ years. Not easy. Also not easy to keep up with studies etc. I feel your analyses are thoughtful and you apply the recommended highest rigor - clinical outcomes in good studies. I also really like the You Tube Channel "Viva Longevity(Formerly Plant Chompers) for bringing studies and thoughtful analyses to the forfront. Dr Berry is well spoken and articulate even convincing but I agree clinical outcomes/studies are most important not mechanisms. I dont agree with many things he says. However, I must say in the real world with " real patients " there is ALOT of biologic diversity and alot of surprises relative to the data/consensus. One of your videos discussed this idea as seen in "waterfalls plots" and diverse individual responses. Keep up the good work.
We have always eaten plants! They don’t run as fast as animals 😊and they are easy to “sneak” up on
Wait... So you're telling me hunter gatherers... Gathered? Not just hunt?
This is so true and a very humorous comment. Kudos to you.🎉
@@Ryan-wx1bi lol 😆
Plus, plants don't bite back. Pretty hard to find an Urgent Care 4,000 years ago.
@@doernerrr Whaaa? (as Chris Griffin would say) Are you kidding? Lots of plants “bite back”….and no, i’m not a “carnivore”!
Let Dr Gil finish a thought !!😮
This was little painful to watch ... Berry is so biased.
But I am grateful to have had the opportunity to witness the discussion. Thank you.
It is good to be biased when you have the facts on your side, but Berry is dumb and dishonest.
It sounds like you didn't find the "but rich people 4,000 years ago wouldn't have eaten oats" argument very persuasive. Shame on you for not following the science.
@@metalWarriorCZ more than a little painful to watch…
actually that is the point. The rich people tended to be fatter and poorer in health then the people who ate grains.
@@amycaruthers7858 Is this true? In what time period? I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is...
During feudalism, peasants had little dietary diversity, consuming grains and little else; they died of dietary deficiencies.
Rulers had more dietary diversity; they overconsumed game, fish, poultry, and other domesticated animals, and died of diseases of dietary excess such as heart disease and experienced conditions like infection and gout.
Their mating behaviors also differed wildly, with rulers sex lives being somewhat more deliberate/controlled (often leading to a lack of genetic diversity among offspring).
Further, many of the cultural cuisines associated with blue zones originated among poor and peasant classes using locally available foodstuffs rather than supply chains that were globalizing only a few hundred years ago.
So what's the deep, historical point here?
This was the most intelligent conversation I’ve heard in a long time. Great content!
Overall a good debate. Respectful conversation, tensions didn’t run high. I appreciate that. Both are trying to make a positive difference.
I appreciate the way you conducted this conversation Dr Gil.
I haven't even watched it yet and can't thank you enough for doing this. I've been waiting for this a long time. As far as I've seen all Dr. Berry does is go before "friendly" audiences, or his own channel of course, so it is good that someone is finally going to evaluate his claims.
I love this format! Please keep it up and your professional, methodically rigorous, good-faith approach to these discussions.
Fantastic effort by both parties no matter which conclusions you take away. 2 fantastically prepared guys exchanging arguments and opinions like they came down from trees and are not monkeys anymore.
I applaud the host for civility and special praise to @KenBerry for joining on foreign turf and standing up to some challenging questions about a video which is at least a few years old.
46 yo male 6'3 195lbs here. I do not care what anyone has to say about who's right or wrong with this interview. I know from someone who has to check blood sugar daily. If I eat oatmeal or any other high carb foods, my blood sugar goes into the 200s. In my 20s I could eat anything and be fine didn't start having problems until I got in my 30s.
I agree. Weight loss is extremely challenging (if not impossible) for me if I’m eating Oats for breakfast.
Did you watch the video? It’s not how high your blood sugar goes, but how long it stays elevated.
I'm also a 46 yo male and have been eating oats for breakfast everyday for 20 years and I'm one of the healthiest people I know. Maybe they don't work for you but oats are great, eat your oats people.
These are symptoms of something that went wrong, blaming the symptoms is a wrong focus, the real way to solve any imbalance over sugar levels is to have a healthy gut bacteria, if people keep grifting over symptoms they will never find out the real cause of their problems, but I am happy that science is finally focusing on gut bacteria there is a great deal of research lately even looking at ways to strengthen gut bacteria even causing the body to remove any Alzheimer’s and Diabetes symptoms, we must focus on what we ingest every little thing we put into our body will affect the immune system it is your choice to ingest whatever you want but be aware your body will accumulate whatever damage you are making it causing inflammation, nutritional imbalances, among others ending with a chronic illness most likely, so choose wisely. Usually a gut bacteria doctor can help you to make smart choices.
How fast does your blood sugar spike up after you eat guys? Like is it minutes
I swear i never saw this coming. I expected a debunk, but not an interview, and i am pleasantly suprised too.
I'd been enjoying steel cut oats for many years (no sweetener, no fruit, walnuts only) , but I'm VERY GLAD I checked my response via CGM. It spiked my blood sugar very high , and I don't eat it anymore. (Now I'm 100% grain-free.) Thanks for the excellent review and conversation.
Thank you for sharing
a blood glucose spike is a normal response. did you check it again 2 hours later? Try adding some protein and some chia seeds to it., and take a nice 20 minute walk afterwords I use it before i exercise so it works perfectly for me. If its still spiked after a few hours it would be best to avoid for you, but a spike is normal after eating
Steel cut oats perturbs my cgm readings as well.
Likewise
A low fat whole food plant based diet over enough years prevents our cells from becoming insulin resistant. As long as they aren't insulin resistant, then (as with exercise spikes) blood sugar spikes are not a problem. The insulin goes into the cells to do what the insulin is supposed to do. Too much fat in the cells prevents that.
Traditional oats is one of the few breakfast products that fits the category of cereal.
99% are either biscuits or confectionery.
I'd love to see a part 2 of this. Having those kinds of discussions are my favourite videos to watch when it comes to nutrition
I don’t think I can take a part 2 with Dr Berry because of his constant interruptions.😢
I'm glad Berry never attempted to put words in Gil's mouth.
I had a bowl of slow cook, sprouted oatmeal yesterday morning for the first time in a long time. It was great and I was full for hours.
It's silly to attack oatmeal, considering all the crap choices out there. Maybe worry about PopTarts.
Layne Norton has entered the chat. lol
Yep, he literally goes from "too many Americans have metabolic issues, so I wouldn't recommend oatmeal" completely ignoring where the metabolic issues come from and that oatmeal or other (especially whole) grains in moderation did not cause them.
Textbook definition of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Gosh I ate plenty of those when I was a kid!
Maybe worry about meat, cheese and cow's milk more like. Poptarts are awful but animal products are even worse.
Yes and no: avoid instant oats, rolled better, steel cuts (or oat groats) best. Unless you like spiking blood sugar.
Applause for doing this Gil! You’re a hero for it.
I love when you bring people from the other side of the fence to your podcast gil. It's so nice that you can respond directly to their rebuttals and see what they have to say when they're outside of their Echo chamber.
I would also like to thank Dr Ken Berry for coming. It takes a lot of nerve to do something like this. I eat a mostly low-carb diet so I was very interested in this conversation.
We need part 2, 3 and 4. I love Dr Berry and I love your channel.
Do you not understand that Berry is a quack?!
No part 2 please. Your summary was useful.
Thanks for being reasonable in a world of extremes. Amazing content as usual!
The one thing about oats probably most if not all of followers of this channel know is that oat fields are still being sprayed with glyphosate (the ingredient in “Round Up” ) so Best buy organic oat groats/steel cut/rolled oats if you can, which seem to be best forms.
Thank you Gil and Dr. Berry for this frank conversation. You may have disagreed on various points, but you did it in such a respectful way. I encourage you to do a repeat. For topics I would like to have a discussion on the benefits of fruit, and vegetables, and meat. Also about the humanitarian/environmental aspects of our diet.
I always find it fascinating how one displays authority in medicine. I see Dr. Berry hanging stethoscopes in his office, displaying his degrees and signing into the zoom meeting with MD. Gil, who I would argue has more credentialed experience around nutritional research doesn’t highlight any of that. My fiancée is a provider and I notice that whenever I ask her a question about medicine, she’ll always say “I’ll look that up to confirm” or “that’s out of my scope or discipline.” I really wish Dr. Berry would be more interested in looking into experts around research, instead of relying on credentials and patient experience alone. This was a great exploration in the difference between ideology and data.
Any doctor or researcher worth their salt will explain the limits of their knowledge and the complexities of the issues.
Metabolic processes are extremely complex, humans are complex, and on top of that we have an inordinate number of confounding variables that make his assertions absolutely silly.
I laughed out loud when Dr. Ken Berry said he was fighting against people who say things with authority... while pretending to be an authority on health and telling people what to think.
@@justaname999Perhaps if they're writing research articles they would specify limitations but I don't often see researchers or doctors mentioning this on YT.
@@kyotango In that case Gil's videos must be quite the revelation for you. I've never seen him do a video without the appropriate caveats. He will outline perfectly what we know, what we don't know and how some aspects might interact with results. And that should be a part of successful scientific communication. Without that we get BS science headlines.
where are the published clinical papers of Dr. Berry I wonder?
This is a great discussion! I think in the end it's best to do some trial and error for yourself and see how oatmeal affects your body
This was a BS discussion. Anyone who knows Dr Ken Berry and his watched enough of his videos like I have and also explored all avenues understands oats can be good for you.
We need a TLDR video. Can't stomach an hour and a half of Ken Berry :(
Yeah sign me up for the TLDR too, he keeps interrupting and I am like 15 minutes in.
Timestamps are your Friend ;)
@@yogiyoda oats are fine. Like and subscribe
"ooga booga - ancestors ate meat. Meat good. oats bad" pretty much his entire worldview
TLDR carnivore dIet-promoting grifter ignores scientific evidence while Gil patiently and as kindly as possible explains to him why he's wrong.
I’m a big fan of your show and really appreciate the detailed, evidence based information you share. I previously suggested the idea of shifting your talks to a podcast or audio version, as it would allow people like me to enjoy your content while multitasking. I just wanted to follow up and say I still think it would be a fantastic addition to your online presence. Keep up the great work!
Professor Tim Spector over in England demonstrated that porridge oats DID spike blood sugar in many people, including the professor, but not all, as part of the ZOE study. The British Professor’s advice was to use a CGM for a couple of weeks to see how YOU individually will respond to porridge oats, ie, does your blood glucose spike or not based on your metabolic status and genetics. The soluble fibre in oats (beta glycan?) is often hugely helpful in relieving colon problems so between bowel regularity and CGM data should help decide if it’s for you.
It's also worth noting that there's literally nothing wrong with glucose spikes as long as they're not sustained for long periods of time (days/weeks). There is exactly zero evidence that a short term glucose spike does any damage at all.
After seeing spikes in oatmeal I switched to oat groats 50-60 grams slow to cook but great taste, texture and filling.
Most people who are pre diabetic, had been told to avoid eating naked carbs (such as oatmeal on its own), and to eat protein and fiber first, to stimulate more insulin secretion, and give your body more time to process the carbs in the meal. I feel that part, had been left out of the conversation, so, it had been oversimplified. I have greek yogurt before my oats with soy protein powder blended in. Then, berries with my oats. I think it's wrong to only discuss carbs in isolation. I had agreed with the statement that instant oats are less healthy than steel cut oats. Especially for people who have the condition.
ZOE sell glucose monitors. There is no evidence that glucose spikes cause damage in non diabetic individuals. Please don't get caught in this latest trend!
@@dan-qe1tbDr. McDougall had 100% cure rate in his patient population of T2D and he recommended eating oats.
Thanks Gill for coming to defend the science.
Good to see a platform in which parties of different thoughts can discourse
Dr Berry has been disciplined numerous times by the Tennessee medical board.
I stopped watching his videos years ago after yet one more sounded off.
He should be in prison for reusing medical equipment and potentially spreading HIV to his patients.
Yeah. Galileo Galilei was put to prison by his peers.
Elevate this comment!
So maybe he's right!
All I know is that ever time my husband and I eat oatmeal steel oaks, we get bloating in our stomach and our sugar is spiking significantly. Therefore we stopped eating it and have been able to lower our A1C and stomach area significantly.❤
Bloating would suggest some digestive sensitivity with oats. I am type 2 diabetic, and oats spike my blood sugar ONLY if I eat them alone. (Oatmeal and blueberries). As long as I also eat enough protein and fat with them, I am fine. I usually eat full fat Greek yogurt with it. No blood sugar spike.
Love the way Gil listens and tries to understand the other doctor’s point of view and they can even agree on a few points. Gil presented data and the doctor did not present or find a single trial where oatmeal increases a1c over time. You can’t throw all the research out the door. Gil looks at all the cumulative research as everyone should. The doctor said not to deal in absolutes, but he affirmed that oatmeal will harm people with no substantial evidence
You're a saint for doing this. Ken Berry reminds me of the saying, "Be open-minded. But not so open-minded that your brains fall out."
Oats were poor people food. So what? Lobster used to be poor people food at one time. This guy.
Because poor people ate more of something it means it's unhealthy? Is that his argument (I haven't watched the video yet; just came to look at comments)? Refined white bread used to be rich people food; the poor people would have had more whole grains in their lowly brown bread.
This is why I stopped carnivore eating and returned to whole foods plant-based. My health is better, my constipation went away and my lipid panel actually looks better.
@@allein1001 Great point!
Yes, I think the rich in the past were just choosing foods that they liked or that had status.
@@traceybell3673 Or what was cheap and available. Like in a 18th century prison you had to eat your lobster with with some side dish or starve... If you was a gladiator in the Roman Empire, you ate your ostrich drums and elephant and camel meat stew.
I had always wanted to eat oatmeal because I read of the several health benefits, but never had the time. About 15 years ago I wanted to add more protein to my diet and found people were adding oatmeal to their smoothie, so I thought I'd try it. It was pretty simple; 1/2 cup quick oats, banana, protein powder, frozen blueberries, water. In 6 months my cholesterol fell 20 points, which was more than 10%. My GP said he has patients on statins that haven't done that well. I said, "You should prescribe oatmeal."
How do you not have time for oats? Im out of the house 15 hours a day five days a week and rolled oats with frozen blueberries in the microwave is the easiest meal I can think of besides bananas.
I have the same smootie every evening, but with half an avocado instead of banana. I also add a spoonfull of chia seeds, psyllium husk and a bit of naturell youghurt. Will check my cholesterol soon.
Well done. But careful about eating blueberries and bananas together: a recent, much-quoted study has shown that bananas interfere with the absorption of flavanols which blueberries are valued for.
I soak steel cut oats in oat milk overnight. Then I eat it cold with walnuts, blueberries and orange and apple slices. Takes only the time to pour liquid, peel an orange, slice an apple, and sprinkle berries and walnuts.
You are the only person I trust LOVE your channel! ❤❤❤
I appreciate that Dr. Berry was willing to come on to the video and that Gil conducted it. It gives me an inside peek and Dr. Berry's thought process, but makes me even more trusting of Gil's videos. BTW. I was never a follower of Dr. Berry's advice, but see his videos a lot, and it would normally just add the the confusion if I gave it more weight.
What you guys did here is not easy, considering the view differences in some contexts. However, you were an absolute example of how these topics should be discussed. Thank you guys. Definitively following you both. Keep it up.
Type 2 diabetic here, love oats, grits and cream of wheat for breakfast. That was a default breakfast for almost fifty years. After my diagnosis of diabetes however, my CGM says my blood sugar level does not enjoy the experience. Yes N=1 data…
Check out Mastering Diabetes
@@RobZwierleinThis. They're type 1 diabetics eating 500g of carbs a day with a better A1c than Ken Berry.
@@RobZwierlein But they are vegans and don't use oil of any type.I couldn't live like that.
you choose not to live like that.
@@judithcervizzi6609
It's not even just no oil that's helping them, it's low saturated fat, which heavily blunts insulin sensitivity, but also slow digesting healthy carbs with lots of fiber, and also staying leaner and exercising. As an old book on diabetes says, which might end up controversial nowadays: The most significant factor in controlling diabetes is eating no more than is necessary for the activity level of the individual. I would say added sugars are the secondary important factor, and saturated fat thirdly, but also significant for overall health.
I know people who eat a bowl of oats every morning. They are the healthiest people I know.
My great grandma's turning 92 this month, that checks out. She still lives alone and can drive.
I'm in my mid 60s and eat a huge bowl of oatmeal with fruit and sometimes honey in it. Have been eating this for decades.. My fasting glucose is in the 80s,cholesterol levels are great without meds. Disagree with Dr Ken.
i eat overnight oats every morning with fruit and honey for the past 3 months. loss 25 lbs. no other changes.
I was diagnosed with lymphoma in 2004 , I started eating oats with flaxseed for breakfast every morning and been doing that for 20 years. I'm 77 and in good health, I'm not on any pharmaceutical meds.
I’m one of them… 41 years old… no health issues… I’ve been eating oats since I was a kid…
I'd been enjoying steel cut oats for a few years (no sweetener, no fruit, walnuts only) , but I'm VERY GLAD I checked my response via CGM. It spiked my blood sugar immediately, and I don't eat it anymore. (Now I'm 100% grain-free.) Thanks for the review.
Blood sugar isn't everything, though. Average matters more. Blood sugar (and pressure) spikes during exercise too, but that's healthy in a broader context. What was your average blood sugar?
Ken Berry might have an A1c of 5.5 with no carbs, but a type 1 diabetic might have an A1c of 5 despite eating 500g of carbs a day, despite the spikes.
Blood sugar is supposed to spike immediately. It's ok if it's lower again after two hours, as they discussed.
All doctors should be open minded to talk to each even though they disagree each other.
There was only one-sided open mindedness and that was on Gil’s side. His patience and graciousness were phenomenal given that Berry is a chiropractor who practices Scientology and he, Gil, is a medical doctor with a PhD in nutritional science, I believe. They are in no way peers in terms of their training…not in terms of their manners either. It was the first video from Gil I had difficulty watching.
Oh, and my degrees in archaeology included courses in paleoethnobotany (aka archaeobotany) and medical anthropology. The so-called facts about historical use of oats that Berry spewed belong buried deep in a midden.
This is why I love Gil and raise an eyebrow at people like Ken who ignore ALL the data and call all nutrition science BS. ALL? it is laughable. great job keeping it amicable.
Reality is, a majority of people have issues with blood sugar and would benefit greatly from significantly reducing their carb intake. Type 2 diabetes is rampant. Nothing applies to everyone.
People just hate to admit that common foods like oatmeal are better to avoid for most people.
@@marciamakoviecki3295 But what about the other confounding variables? Exercise or lack thereof? Muscle mass or lack thereof? Highly processed food?
This was a great debate between two people. I absolutely love Dr Ken Berry 😊
My Grandfather ate oats every day for 90 years. He died.
Big oat strikes again
@@mastervule1844 They play the long game!
@@mastervule1844 They play the long game!
@@mastervule1844 Now THAT's funny, I don't care who you are!
@@mastervule1844 I would take the 90 shot .
The important takeaway here is never eat something that poor people once ate.
Lmao
😆
You better add /s otherwise some people will believe you...
thats why i throw my caviar away all the time.
The balls to present that as evidence with a straight face.
I've watched an unhealthy amount of online 'health' content and am pretty aware of how much 'story telling' underpins the movements, but it's fascinating to watch someone have their arguments calmly deconstructed and pulled apart in a format like this. Preaching to the converted is one thing and a lot of these influencers do well in their echo chambers, but talking to someone who has attempted to examine the data with as little bias as possible is something else. Tought discussion to get through with the ideological rants at times, but worth it.
Hugely entertaining and interesting. Thank you Dr Gil. The distinction between medicine and science on full show.
I listen to Dr. B because he was a practising Doctor has seen what high carb diets do to peoples health. Plus he is polite with his views and his experiences. Most of the comments on this site are rather rude about Dr.B. its a shame. Oat eaters should allow for difference in health populations ( and Americans are not healthy ) if the stats are to be believed.
did you watch this video? I get why you like Dr B but science isn't advanced by rhetoric, its advanced by data.
my takeaway:
If you are Diabetic stay away from Oats because it will have bigger and longer spike of your blood sugar
if you are Pre-Diabetic stay away rom Oats because it will have bigger and longer spike of your blood sugar
if you are not sure if you are Pre-Diabetic get a CGM to check how your body will react to Oats within 2hrs and after 2hrs.
If you are healthy you can eat Oats as long sa you dont put "High sugar / syrup" on it
When you become overweight it's time to get a CGM to check how your body responds to Oats
Thank you for this informative discussions.
I'm gonna watch this video every day (when I have my oats).
You will be able to do that for many long and healthy years if you do everything else right. Your brain might not benefit from your viewing choice, however. Once was enough for me!
Me too 😂
Very well done Gil. Love listening to your videos. You are my go to for health information as I trust you're only agenda is to present all evidence in an unbiased way.
All i can say, i recently starting using a Stelo CGM to monitor glucose levels. As a prediabetic, I'm just testing my body's responses to various foods. So far, 1/4 cup of steel cut oats (no topping/addins) consumed in isolation caused the first dangerous spike that lasted 4 hours to return to normal. It spiked from 105 to 250+ - exceeding the sensor's range. A blood prick indicated 257. Just one data point. But was super surprising. Testing continues.
Are you sure that you're only a pre?
But you are you, doesnt mean it will do the same for everyone
Absolutely correct sir, thank you for pointing this out no one here will want to talk about that
Thank you. It seems that Dr. Berry had at least one good thought: you should try out the meals and measure if possible their effects. Do not trust blindly the studies and doctors.
Wow that's crazy I'm fit and make gainer shakes with steel cut oats blue berries hemp seeds walnuts bananas for breakfast it's like 1k calories but i get a huge crash after i drink it. Now that i think about it it's probrably a huge insulin spike causing the crash yikes
Listening to this video as I am eating steel cut oatmeal for breakfast. Perfect to lower my cholesterol.
I have perfect metabolic health and have been eating oatmeal for at least 30 years, at least. Gil, you're name should be GOLD. Thank you for enduring this and interjecting truth where it is so dearly needed.
From the top, my reactions... Anthropological history on oats? who gives AF! It was considered food for horses and livestock... so... food for the poor, well, the king's diet comes with the king's diseases, hence we have things like the hispanic paradox, right out the gate Berry is totally derailed. Adaptation, 8:46 and he's said nothing really meaningful, human outcomes matter in our current disposition. If adaptation matters then lets adapt to the most sustainable and compassionate, safest foods. Not eating animals which requires adapting to the most violent jobs, the most unsustainable practices that result in over 20,000 CAFO's in the US alone that are toxic to surrounding communities and the leading cause of deforestation, desertification, aquatic dead zones, species extinction, antibiotic resistant bacteria, deadly pathogens and zoonotic diseases that kill millions of people, and ultimate increase risk for chronic diseases that we didn't anthropologically live long enough to encounter. Thank god Gil responded intelligently, unfortunately Berry interrupted constantly up to the 11:20 minutes, cows should eat grass? WTF does this have to do with anything Berry? It's a HORRIBLE analogy. There are literally billions of people that don't eat meat and many of them come from at least thousands of years religious history surrounding this.
Ok, now 16:00 in and we're getting to the heart of this. He completely omitted groat oats. WTF has a serious conversation about oats and omits the most healthful oat? So annoying... Has Berry not heard of the second meal effect? "Eating whole oat groats can reduce blood sugar and insulin responses after a meal. This is because oat groats are a good source of soluble fiber, which forms a gel in the stomach and slows down digestion." So, essentially Berry is trying to appeal to vulnerable sick people, not healthy people who want to stay healthy or sick people who want to become healthy thus far at the 20:29 mark. 22:16 The problem with his appeal to a sick population with metabolic disease is that PEOPLE ARE REVERSING THEIR METABOLIC DISEASES GOING ON A WHOLE FOOD VEGAN DIET BERRY!!!!!!!!
29:30 in we're supposed to appeal to Berry's experience? yet I have doctors on my channel who have been practicing twice as long as he has and even longer who wholeheartedly would disagree with Berry. So, it's not just the science Berry, it's also people with more experience and a better record as well.
36:10 is that an oxymoron, enjoy a bowl of oatmeal, only if you're a m0r0n berry. I add berries to my oatmeal, dates, ceylon cinnamon, fresh ground clove, cardamom, fresh ground flax, etc... it's called developing a sophisticated palate. I brought my father a bowl of this last week when his power was out from hurricane helene and he said it was the best meal he's had a very long time, he LOVED IT. Nothing taste better than healthy feels, but even this taste awesome. But I suppose Berry has an acquired taste for rotting flesh and can't understand something so healthy and natural and clean being delicious.
Berry's n of 1 experiment, to try eating steel cut (instead of groats for some reason) 38:00, it would be interesting to see if he has an excursion. But, the problem with this n of 1 is, well, his horrible diet probably has him insulin resistant. (nice that Gil ended up covering this at the end :) ).
20:30 Berry, it does matter how long the excursion lasts because the longer blood glucose is sustained the more likely reactions will occur with proteins or lipids. It's about time and concentration, not just concentration. Glycation takes time. 42:40 so now Berry acknowledge the time variable, he's so inconsistent.
53:00 Berry's "main concern" is people saying oats are going to cure and solve everything. NO ONE IS SAYING ONE FOOD FOR ONE MEAL A DAY IS GOING TO DO ANYTHING MAGICAL. He is trying to weasel out of his fraudulence. Organic oats, ideally groat oats, are a perfect food along with other grains, legumes, greens, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs & spices. When eating a well planned whole food vegan diet oats are excellent Berry. If a person is sick then they need to find a way to get their lifestyle right so they can consume these whole foods, not take your meds or horrible dietary advice and avoid these whole vegan foods.
55:00 again Berry is trying to weasel out, it's such common quackery to overgeneralize and throw carbs under the bus and get vulnerable people confused who don't have time to question and discern the unspoken nuance. No, don't say oats are bad and then later say you meant quick oats loaded with sugar and a bunch of other ingredients. You could have qualified, or are you saying you think your audience is too ignorant to understand this distinction or you're just trying to mislead people?
57:00 he suggested to patients to eat oatmeal with other things like banana and said their glucose spiked, it could have been the banana dude, DUH!
104:30 Berry said if all the people watching his video stopped eating oats it would not impact their health negatively. What?????? That is just insane to say, what are they replacing it with? Obviously that is a very ignorant, like much of what Berry says, comment.
106:50 Berry's overgeneralized opinion of how corrupt science is says more about him than it does about science. Then he goes back to what our ancestors did, he clearly doesn't know what antagonistic pleiotropy means.
108:15 wow, so Berry is going to interrupt, overtalk Gil, and talk most of the time repeating himself and putting words in Gil's mouth that Gil never said and then he's going to say he's got to bounce. What a typical clown move. Baker did the same thing with Nick the Nutrivore.
111:45 Berry is now going to suggest that the only way to eat oats is to eat it for every meal and snacks too. No one is suggesting this. When we teach people about what to eat we suggest a balanced, varied diet of legumes, greens, grains, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs & spices. Berry makes it out like we're saying just eat oats?
112:45 so Berry is going to waste more time after saying he's out of time and repeat himself again saying research is junk. So, in other words he knows nothing and therefore can't say anything. He can only go off of his clinical experience, yet those with more than twice his experience and having better results apparently don't matter either. He's pure clown.
Nice wrap up Gil putting mechanistic theories in their place and human outcomes at the top. As for people testing themselves, I've heard some doctors having a problem with this. I don't recall the exact reasons why. But, I can imagine one may be misunderstanding exactly what is causing things to happen (e.g. a second meal effect or not having one). Keeping a food diary along with that of course may help hone in on things though and of course consulting with your doctor and ideally one that practices lifestyle medicine.
It was a good discussion, I enjoyed it. Thanks for willing to have these without it turning ugly.
I appreciated points from each of you. For a Part 2, though, I think it'd be fair if it begins with you, Gil, elaborating on your positions in some depth, the way your guest did at the start of this video. -- Thank you for doing this!
So if we are gonna go by anecdote, I’ve been eating oats every day (I have the same breakfast every day), and I add oatmilk to my coffee to top it off. Been doing this for about 5 years now, nothing has happened to me, I’m as healthy as I’ve ever been.
I've been eating oats every day for decades and I have a lot of chronic health issues, constant gut pain, joint pain & bad itchy skin. But I doubt it's related to oats, probably genetic or pathogenic.
@@valleyshrewhave you tried low carb? Or something the like autoimmune protocol diet
Nope, it can be the fiber.
Oats is very good for you, I have porridge 🥣 (made with milk) and add honey to it, best of all it’s cheap! 😃
Same here sir 😊
I think there are likely to be people who predominantly follow two different philosophies that are watching this video. After years of videos, books, and studies that I've read, I lean heavily on the side of fellow physician Dr. Berry. However, this was a great example of proper discourse.
As a two-year carnivore who was able to reverse auto immune disease, fix my decades long digestive issues and lose weight, I will freely admit that Gill easily won this debate hands-down. Dr. Barry was extremely under prepared, and his arguments were less than convincing. In fact, they were silly at times. This was a great video and overall a very well presented debate. Thank you gentlemen…
Many single-food diet fads have become popular over the years. They all have followers who swear by them. I'm most familiar with the rice diet, but there are others. I think people find them useful because they drop their calorie intake substantially and stop eating inflammatory fast food and junk food. It becomes a problem when people get fanatical about the diet and stay on it too long. Long-term single-food diets are a good way to get scurvy and other nasty diseases. I reversed my auto-immune disease with a whole food plant-based diet and a lot of self-discipline.
I don't think he was willing to be "prepared" in the way you might of wanted him to be. In fact he may never be. He has a very rigid belief system that is irrational and not based on science, or he is just trying to make money out of mistruths. Probably the former though.
Thx for an intelligent and civil discussion between two medical professionals. If one keeps an open mind this can create an atmosphere of awareness to stimulate us to think for ourselves about our dietary intake which is the main point in my mind.
This was so needed. Thank you both for the discussion!
Believing oatmeal raises blood pressure is a wild thing to believe. A personal bias I have, is when someone has one way out there opinion, I have a hard time believing anything they say. If you think that Earth is flat, I have a hard time taking advice from you in financial matters. This of course is my own personal bias, which I must recognize. And I will try to give his other opinions the weight that they deserve.
Careful with that bias. Look up the "Nobel Disease"
Ask a pilot if the Earth has curvature. Wake up..
What do you mean the Earth is not flat? What's next, gonna tell me that Earth is not rulled by a lizard/vampire/alien hybrid? Don't make me laugh, it's gonna make my tinfoil hat fall off. Can't let those 5G waves get into my brain and give me COVID...
No need to give his opinion any thought. He is just full of BS. I am a former carnivore of 18 months and I speak the truth. I return to whole foods plant-based and my health has never been better and my LDL is not 200.
One someone shows their an idiot its hard to take them seriously, thats for sure
Why does he assume everyone is eating QUACKER oats? With all the added stuff.. some people eat whole oats, which I think changes things a lot.
Right? Like everyone knows that processed food is generally not good for you, and that includes the instant flavoured oats and granola bars...
I didn't hear him state that as an assumption, only that it was Quaker that made oats popular as a food.
I even sprout my oats grouts and it's delicious and nutritious. The phytic acid is neutralized by the germination process.
Concerning carbs. I don't have much issue with them, I avoid bad quality fats, such as seed oils and saturated fats to prevent the free fatty acids from causing insulin resistance.
I have never heard dr Berry like this. Suddenly things are more relative. Thank you Gil. :) I have been vegan for 30 years this year and I have eaten so much oats that I should be half dead by now but my blood works are great. Except for iron levels, but I had that as a kid too when I ate meat. In Sweden where I live we have Blutsaft though, really good vegan drink for elevating iron levels so I'm okey as long as I stick to that regularly.
I don't know for how long it has an effect or if you can counteract it by combining the oats, but from what I've seen, the phytates in oats and other plant foods can interfere with iron absorption.
If you haven't already, check to see what other ingredients you can add to increase the absorption rate
I am shocked and delighted to see that you did this! Cannot wait to DIG INTO it! Maybe I'll watch while I eat my daily oats.
Thank you, Ken & Gil. I could not watch this debate as you Ken kept steamrolling Gil and did not give him room as he politely tried to set up his viewpoints. We all enjoy Gil's view points as he always sites the scientific data to back them and most of us are here for science-based nutrition and not personal anecdotes.
Plant based works for me. After I started eating oats and berries for breakfast every morning my blood pressure is under control and I have lost weight.