Sail Life - Diaphragm replacement 130S saildrive (D2-40) & engine back in it's place
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- In this video, I replace the diaphragm on my 130S saildrive and I finally get both the saildrive and the engine back in the engine compartment.
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The same exact case with the ATF oil happened to me! My Volvo Penta, Md22L owners manual indicates ATF oil for the Hurth zf 150 that's attached on it ! I was pretty close to rebuild the €1000 reverse box ,cause I thought its working days was over !
With the ATF oil the forward gear was failing to engage or if it did ,it was after a lot of switching back and forth to idle ,instead reverse gear had no engaging issues !!!
Thankfully after a lot of reading on the internet I run onto a man ,who his owners manual for the same model of Volvo Penta engine indicated the use of plain engine oil !!!! 750 ml ,about €5 worth,of engine oil solved my problem ,!!
I was very surprised listening to the same incident of a different Volvo Penta engine with a saildrive this time .
Mads,
In a former life (before retirement) part of my role as a Qa Auditor was checking and setting torque values for airtools and torque wrenches in a car manufacturing plant.
Whatever you do do not use the spiffy new wrench to undo fasteners!!!
You will alter the calibration if you do.
Cheers Eric
Volvo engineer #1: I've got a great idea, let's make one of the holes in the saildrive needlessly smaller than the others. That way they might mix up the expensive O-rings we sell and need to buy more.
Volvo engineer #2: Good idea. Also why don't we change our recommendations for oil, so new owners can get confused and maybe break stuff. Then we can sell them our new expensive replacements?
Volvo accountant #1: I love you guys! You're the best!
Only one problem with that...Volvo Penta don't have any engineers - the saildrives and gearboxes are made by ZF-Hurth, and the engines are made by either Perkins-Perama or Perkins-Shibaura. the whole thing is a badge engineering exercise - i.e. paint them green, put a Volvo badges on them and charge triple or quadruple the price! Its the Volvo way
Mads, besides the other comments about using a torque wrench, here is one other not yet mentioned. When installing and tightening/torqueing down fasteners, install all fasteners finger tight. Then snug them down to a uniform torque (in specified pattern if given). Then go back and increase the setting on the torque wrench and do it again ( and again, and again, if necessary). You don't want to torque one fastener while the others are loose )or not installed).
You want to evenly apply pressure to the parts by incrementally increasing the amount of torque applied to all the fasteners in sequence, until you reach the specified torque. For your 22 nm fasteners I would have used finger tight, somewhere 12-15nm, and then 22nm. For higher torque settings add an additional step or two in the sequence. Just don't torque fasteners to their final setting in one step, especially if there is more than one fastener used to hold an assembly together.
I want to personally thank you for this video. This subject has kept me awake at night and you made it look so easy. We will be replacing our diaphragms in a few months and your explanation will help me sleep...you are my DIY rockstar!
Thanks, Teal! That means so a lot to me :) I've been watching a lot of your videos over the last two nights. You guys are the rockstars! I look forward to your next video :)
just a hint, set the torque wrench to 0 or very low when storing it. keeps it more accurate.
Now THATS a cliffhanger for next weeks episode. I have to say, without noticing I switched a long time ago from tv program to your channel as a main event on Sunday night. And now it’s become so normal to wait for your episode to be released that a friend of mine asked if I was waiting for a phone call. He was wondering what I was doing. Turns out after tidying up my kitchen after dinner, turning down the lights in my living room and hopping in my pj‘s I started looking on my phone, waiting impatiently for your latest video to be released.
Enough yak yak, thanks Mads for the last two years of proper boat building madness and glorious, glorious sanding 😊
Cheers and hellos to Ava, too
Dude that was so smart to test fit the ring before trying to place the sail drive. I guarantee you that if it was me I would have tried to fit it over and I would have been yelling very, very loudly when the ring didn't fit lol
ATF has a different additive package versus engine oil since it’s primary function is to be used with gears and clutches with no combustion products. There are extreme pressure additives for the gear meshing. Seems best to contact Volvo directly and discuss best approach for your year sail drive that has only had ATF in it.
I agree. Talk to an expert over at Volvo, otherwise, keep to the old spec.
I also agree. I've seen this same issue with transmissions that Yanmar uses. There can be differeny oil specs on what appears to be the same transmission. Call Volvo with the exact model and/or serial number on the transmission. I would bet that the little red sticker is correct.
@@sailingvesselsouthernlady447 At the very least, they may have a flushing recommendation to use when changing lubricant types. But if there is nothing else on the boat that uses ATF, and it is appropriate for his drive unit, it would be worth the change just to eliminate one more thing that would need to be carried.
Might be more about the changes to modern atf rather than the suitability of say dexron 3 or 4 atf.
Lot of sealed autos these days, got to be some chemical wizardry in there that may not be suitable for a plain old sail drive?
The aluminum tape does not have to stick to the foam, use it to tape the edges to the glass or wood the foam is yup against. This will also help keep stuff from getting behind the foam and loosening the adhesive.
Any project that requires a new tool is a good project!
Hi Mads - as an aircraft engineer i never trust dry gaskets - i would have used loctite 515 or 518 Master gasket as well, the comment below regards grease on the threads are valid, it chnages the torque but hopefully not to detrimental, copper based antiseize would be better. great videos!
Ooohhh... Pretty Engine Room!
Couple suggestions:
Use of Loctite or thread lubricant/locker changes torque readings. In effect you might be overtightening as it reduces friction. Be careful.
As others mentioned, set torque wrench to minimum setting for storage.
Try to cover the exposed insulation foam. It will absorb fluids/diesel fumes.
I see others have mentioned this too. Great minds...???
Keep up the great work.
I watch a lot of boat videos yours are my favorites I think its your sense of humor thanks
Pretty Spiffy ! That engine compartment is "Looking GOOOOOD."
Besides doing a cross or star pattern when tensioning bolts you can also tighten in stages by picking one or two intermediate torque settings to tighten too. This can be important when you want to minimize warping on mating surfaces.
You have no way of knowing if Volvo made any changes to the inside of the sail drive when they made their recommendation change. But I would find any manual that told me to use motor oil in a gearbox highly suspect. And whenever your in doubt use the original spec from time of production, contacting the manufacturer will just have some half wit in a call center read off the same garbage you printed out. This is why it is so important to have binders with copies of all your service manuals, bulletins, etc that you collect as you install the parts. Manufactures often make changes without updating model numbers. Had a lot of fun a couple of years ago on a water pump where they made the depth of a blind hole a little shorter and ended up splitting the casting twice! The best part was the water pump had no documentation on the change we only figured it out when we went to do the third install and had to at that point replace the bracket that used the hole since anger had caused it to be ripped out and bent, and the dealer asked us if we wanted a pre or post 2006 bracket.
You're the best tech teacher so ever. I love you and all your post. All of them like masterpiece . Thank you from Stockholm. best best best.
PROGRESS! Great job Mads!
Well - I went online and read a number of threads and I guess you are correct on using 10 W40 in the sail drive. That’s quite a unique situation for a gearbox. I will admit my error. Crazy!
Just did this Mads x 2 D2-40's on my catamaran. Very labor intensive and expensive. The clamp ring new replacement is about $400-500 US. Was able to salvage the clamp rings by rust converter and epoxy fill and epoxy paint. The bigger problem is the clamp ring on that big seal corrodes and then looses viable sealing surface. *MAKE SURE THE PAINT IS SOLID BEFORE PUTTING THEM BACK* Used Trilux 33 for repainting the 130S saildrive leg.
All though greasing the screws might seem like a neat idea, it actually changes the tourque requirement. Lubricated threads calls for a lower tourque than dry ones. Hopefully your manual came with double recommedations.
Yes, torque specifications are generally for clean, dry fasteners.
@@patquintin3730 True, but it all depends on what his manual specifies. I wouldn't bet against Mads having followed it precisely.
From the Volvo 130s manual; Apply grease, VP part number 828 250 to the screws.
Torque 22 ± 1 Nm.
Ha! The old Volvo sail drive debacle! There was a technical update notice issued. We have a copy (it's on the net). It tells you what oil to use in all their sail drives. Generally, those with ATF have now changed to 15w/40 as per the engine. But their are some exceptions. The great thing about your 130 is the split anode. No taking the prop off every year to change the anodes!!!!!!! Fantastic, if like us you have a Brunton Auto-prop. (take a look at their youtube vids or give us a PM. We have data on our findings) The performance in sail or motorsail is very much improved, somthing you may want to consider? Sail safe Mads and keep up the great work. Ant & Cid (SV Impavidus)
Its good practice, if you can, to recheck the torque after a couple of days, sometimes new gaskets compress slightly because of this the bolts/fasteners can lose torque. Not always necessary but good practice.
As people have said release the tension (Zero) the torque wrench after use if you don't and the mechanism of the wrench remains in tension a sort of memory is created which will make the wrench inaccurate over time.
Before changing from ATF to engine oil I suggest you contact the manufacturer to confirm you can use engine oil in your serial number drive, and whether you need to flush every trace of ATF out before adding engine oil. Sometimes mixing fluids is a very bad idea. For example with engine coolant, never mix glycol (greenish color) with Dexcool (orange color). They are not compatible and can coagulate inside the engine causing lots of problems.
Some advice...
At 10:00 in the video, you should not be going by memory. The ports where you put the new O-rings are your guide. Fortunately, your memory was correct.
Pretty sure the green O-rings are not green for position identification, they will be a different material based on the fluids that are passing.
During torquing of the bolts, you really want to stop turning as soon as the torque wrench clicks, don't continue at all.
Also, after going around all bolts once, it is a good idea to repeat on all bolts in the correct order since the new gasket may compress as you are tightening. It is often possible to get a little more torque on the second round of tightening.
Who wouldnt be excited over a torque wrench? I got my first one when I was 15. Waaaaaaaaaaay back in the 70s
Not only is some form of lube helpful to keep o-rings in place, you should always use lube to prevent the rings from twisting during installation. I noticed last week you put a ring in dry. Still, I'm sure it will be ok and I applaud your attention to detail. Love this channel, and cannot wait to see the boat hit the "wet"! Keep up your enthusiasm and excellent work.
not sure if you did but when torquing bolts you'll want to go over the bolts a second time in the same cross pattern to verify torque since as you tighten down the other bolts the surfaces can flex or pivot a little
Mads is the only person I know that doesn’t bat an eye when describing a project that my require gutting his boat. Btw, his engine room looks smoother and prettier than most hulls. 😂😂👍
engine compartment looks really nice!
I'm presently binging on Project Athena playlist. Quite a few episodes are missing from that playlist, like this one.
Torque is not always Tight ! Obviously lubrication of threaded bolts has lots of benefits, but with it comes the overriding concern that the lubricant will change the torque required to develop proper tension on the bolt-and how that could affect the integrity of the joint. Some estimate that adding a lubricant could reduce the required torque reading by up to 40 percent!
The engine compartment is so bright and well lit, it looks like a museum exhibit! Bravo!
Remember to release the tension on the torque wrench, otherwise it goes bad
Piers Bird now you know 😂 just ask me how i learned that 🤣
And have it calibrated once in a while according to manufacturing edicts.
Just saying this good advice another way - once done with the torque wrench always set it back to zero. Also try to avoid going less than zero as this can also impact calibration, though this may be manufacturer specific. Lastly, when using extensions between the wrench and the socket, some claim you lose a little bit of the torque, and so going a small bit past the ‘click’ when using an extension should compensate for this.
Piers Bird nah... cheapo one, but still... the trouble of buying a new one was pain
Matias Forsman yes, we always had to check for calibration stickers when used on aircraft.
Looking great Mads. Remember when torque paterens are available, always revers for removal. A quick and easy though on the tape seal of sound insulation. Try two strips per edge. On to stick to firewall and overlap to foam, and a second that joins overlap on foam to mylar (shinny part of insulation) edge.
Glad you resolved the ATF/ engine oil problem. I recall VP had some issues with saildrives that used ATF, so they changed the recommendation to engine oil. My saildrive doesn't have that red sticker, and the manual said to use the same oil as the engine so I didn't lose any sleep over it. Hoping you don't have to gut the interior...
Absolutely love your attention to detail when you're taking things apart and putting them back together again. love the little red pen sketch for the bolts, great idea. Cheers.
To close the sides of the soundproofing, place the ½ width of the aluminum tape on the aluminum surface of the soundproofing and bend it in over the side so it reaches or almost reaches into the backplate where the insulation is glued on, and put a strip of tape equal to, ½ on the back cover and out over the tape from before
I love how your engine compartment came out. It's like an operating room with the patient ready for surgery.
That’s an engine display case, not an engine bay
Wallace Grommet morning
Nice progress Mads! A little tip for unbolting @5:39 try to avoid loosening everything on one side. It would have been better to rotate the saildrive and loosen one bolt from each side so you spread the tension better. For the rest great job and thanks for sharing
Great job on getting the engine in. I have done that twice now. Both sail drives. Your engine room looks 'pretty damn spiffy'. You should be really proud.
Putting things back together is so satisfying to me. Love how things are moving along for you.
Hello Mads, I'm watching your playlist "Project Athena (DIY sailboat restoration)" and this video is missing. You should insert it in 108th position, between "Sail Life - Sound insulation & Volvo D2-40 heat exchanger cleaning" and "Sail Life - Dang it! Structural members & demolishing the head - DIY boat restoration".
Thanks a lot for all your sharing about your boat restoration, it's amazing! Hope the best for the next!
congratulations on your first torque wrench! also about the camera... i dont think you could bore us with anything, even if you tried! its all so good! (spiffy even!)
You have mentioned quite a few times in different videos how smart 'concrete boat guy' is and yet..... he is spending time & money restoring a Ferro cement boat?!
🤔😏🤔
All joking aside, great video and explanation of the work required to get the sail drive diaphragm sorted out.
The best looking engine compartment I have ever seen!
Congrats on the huge milestone! Hope you and Ava have a very merry christmas
Happy December! A great (boat-related)milestone to end 2018 with for sure. Cheers from PEI Canada, Bryan
Exciting Spifftastic news! I received my 100% Spiffy decals in the mail :) Thanks Mads and Ava!
Use the ATF oil, what was good for the drive in the past will be good also in the future. ATF has a different viscosity characteristics that motor oil! I am surprised about the recommendation of the motor oil; that used to be recommended as an emergency if no proper gearbox oil was available and it had to be a simple, low-detergent type. And don't forget to zero down the torque wrench.
Yes, ATF is the better option, manufacturers tend to do this changes because it is not good but, good enough, saves them in inventory and with that a few bob.
I have a VP saildrive and my shop manual specifically says to use the same oil and viscosity(15w-40) as the engine. And when I had the saildrive out 4 years ago to have the seals replaced, the dealer said the old recommendation was ATF, but it caused more problems, so they now recommend engine oil.
Your attention to detail and DIY is impeccable. Love your channel. I wish I had half your motivation to maintain our boat. LOL. Your boat is looking great by the way.
Great work, I like your passion for details.
I have learned SO much from watching this channel. It is amazing. I didn’t know what a torque wrench was. Or how to use one. Thank you. I will now you tube a torque wrench and learn even more. There hasn’t been one wasted moment with your videos!
Hi Mads, you mentioned prior to the sail back from Scotland you changed the water pump impeller. I did post a comment before that on an engine that has not run for many months the impeller can bind to the housing causing the vanes to rip off on starting up.... I’d recommend taking the impeller out and checking it before you start her up ? Don’t get caught out like I did .... no link this time !!
👍 my respect for you went up 100% for 1) reading instructions on things mechanical. Up another 100% for using a tourque wrench. 👍🙂
+Sail Life: Hello Mads, you ol' NEWB! Hate to tell you this, *_BUT_* ...
You _over-torqued_ the 10 socket hex bolts holding the outer and inner pieces/parts together. To properly use that *_super-spiffy tor - que wranch_* , *DO NOT* go past the break point, or the click, when using the _wranch_ . (See your "vid" for specifics). Other than that, you did a very credible, _spiffy_ , job!
Keep up the good "work," and keep the "vids" comin'! They make my Mondays!
Wow the engine bay looks super spiffy ! Very nice ! You should be proud !! Great job
If anything can be called spiffy... that engine compartment certainly is! Well done.
Excellent video! I'll have to be changing the diaphragm on my sail drive in the next few years so this was perfect. Thanks!
Mads, you do such a great job with Video documenting all of the work you are doing on Athena. I hope that as you have done all of this wonderful work that you were able to document and keep up with the amount of money you have spent for everything that it has taken for you to get it done. I would love to see the financial end result and broken down by category such as paint, parts, upgrades, electronics and also Tools! You are a huge tool guy so please if you do this don't forget to include all the expenses involved with the tools. Great work on the engine and sail drive.
Good job on the saildrive and engine. I would suggest putting some marine grease on the splines of all your various drive shafts. It's pretty much standard practice and prevents galling. Although, I can't say I've ever heard of using engine oil in a saildrive :/ Why can't you use regular lower unit oil like that used for outboards? Keep up the great work!
Very spiffy engine room!
Great job.
That is one spiffy torque wrench. But it's missing your name all over it... probably be the most borrowed tool in a marina! Yes, properly torqued bolts in a tightening pattern is a must. Have a wonderful Christmas.
When you put your sail drive together something dropped out
I hope it isn't one of the round O rings. Checkout your video it dropped just as you pushed them together.
Don't know if you should maybe of checked your bearings too.
Kind regards Ed💡👍
I noticed this too!
Yep at 11:37 - a little black thing tipped out
Edward Wood , well that was a great looking to see it fall out, help he reads your comment
JoeTheLion60 I’ve looked four times and seen nothing fall out..........?
@@stephencrowther524 Try freezing it at around 11.38 - A black dot falls from the center of the top piece to about 7pm on the piece below
Quick suggestion for sealing the edges of the sound insulation... use a spray adhesive or contact cement on the raw foam edge first. After the adhesive drys sufficiently the tape will stick very well to the foam.
Your project looks fantastic!
First, thanks for sharing such a wonderful moment as a person's first torque wrench...awesome stuff. Never grease, antisieze or lock tight, & yes this changes your torque specs. Would highly recommend using synthetic lubricants, last better, maintain their properties under a wider spectrum...keep up the great work. Love reading the comments, great to learn from others vast experience.
Not to wish you any hate or discontent, but I was kinda thinking we would have heard a bit of Danish swearing when you put the engine back in place...JK, really, REALLY glad it went in so easily.
Thank you for taking stuff apart and putting it back together for us. Really helpful and interesting.
I would love to be a "fly on the wall" when you try to explain to TSA what an "exhaust elbow" is ! I don't know what your schedule for getting Athena in the water, but you should also order a bunch of spare gaskets, impellers, fan belts, etc. Might be early for building up your "spare parts" supply !
That is one hell of a beautiful engine compartment!! Holy cow!!
Wow Mads! Way to make it look easy!! Thanks
For sealing the edges of the sound insulation you might consider something like Plasti-Dip. It sprays on nicely, comes in a lot of colors, and will neatly seal the cells of the foam.
Problem with that is that it's flammable.
Oh. Yeah. Pretty important consideration. 😢
Hot glue might work ...use it the same way......put a line down on top the foam.. then use a stir stick or bit of wood to smooth it down and press it down into the foam a little before it hardens (work FAST!!) . it will set hard, and then the tape will have a firm surface to grab onto....
When ya'll start cruising, you will be the most popular guy in the anchorage, you'll know a lot about boat repair and have tools...
Thank you so much for the GREAT stickers Mads I love them they are pretty dang spiffy 👍 I plan on putting them on my boat next summer..I will send a picture then ..thank you
Thanks Mads, good timing with this! I was planning on replacing my130s sail drive gaskets soon, so your clear step by step video is very helpful.
Mads, great video, this can help other DIY sailors.
Remember to fill the oil of the saidrive, didn’t see you do it.
If the original manufacturer manual states ATF and your unit says ATF only then you should use ATF, later units may have lesser tolerances on some components allowing safe use of thicker oil
Congrats on having the inboard back in. It is remarkable how frequently instructions are inconsistent, even from the same source. You may already know this and didn't mention it, but torque settings are usually different for dry vs. lubricated (thread locker, tefgel, etc.) threads. Be sure to stop tightening as soon as the wrench clicks or you may affect the torque wrench calibration. Also, for the new stainless exhaust elbow be sure the raw water injection point is at least 25 cm above the loaded boat static waterline or you will need to modify and raise it, or provide an anti-backflow/vacuum valve apparatus.
Getting the engine & Saildrive in is so exciting! Thank you for the awesome content and for the spiffy stickers :)
Congratulations on another milestone completed.
Wow, you made that look easy! Nice vid
Excellent job. The engine bay looks great.
Awesome bro. So much closer to the finish line lookin sweeeet. Peace and be safe out there.
Bought one the U.S. stainless elbows for my yanmar 1gm10 and it's a well made piece and so much cheaper than the original part.
Your such a TEASE!!! You had me all excited when you said 'I picked up a new fancy tool'. I was literally salivating thinking you got a new spiffy sanding doo-hickey! I was crushed when you said it was a torque wrench... Oh well, maybe you will get to do some sanding in your next episode??
Great! The motor is in again. Major move forward. Now the rudder.
Fun😀
Cheers,
Jay
Need an update on the hull dryout after finding the stinky swampy foam bilge. Unless I missed it.
It's looking better and better every episode sir, i bet it's a great feeling too finally have the engine out of the way and back in it's now spiffy home, and i feel that the new camera is going too make your videos pop out marvelously.
P.S. I received the decals, i love them, very high quality and the packing was spot on.
Mads, on your torque wrench don't rely on it when doing the low torque bolts. They are only good in the middle 85% of the range and go out quickly. So doing a 30Nm torque and the lowest setting is 30Nm it will not be accurate. Also ATF is the same as engine oil but with more detergents in it to clean the lassanges in a automatic transmission. Use high quality full synthetic ATF and you will never have an issue.
Good Job There are a lot of good advice points in the comments. Mine will come when you pull your bulkhead and do your stringer inspection Thanks ,thats a big milestone
Few tips with your new torque wrench, in case ya didnt find tips on it or were told.
When running bolts in, the bolts should turn by hand. But some times they dont. If they are stif and have to be wrenched in, try to measure what the running torque is. The running torqe should be added to the torqe spec called out for the size of bolt. Set your wrench to the total. Because the running torqe adds friction so the end torqe could be too low for proper bolt stretch.
Make sure on machine splits with numorous bolts do a tighting pattern a little on each building torque in a zig zag pattern. Many items like engine heads will have specific torque patterns the manufacturer requeats.
Never allow liquid in engine bolts thread holes. Touch of anti seize is ok, but oil below the bolt, like in heads, will crack the block over time from hydraulic force as the block swells and shrinks from heat.
That torque wrench will help calibrate your elbow eventually. By the way, youre a damn good mechanic man. Thanks for sharing!
Drive shaft and Engine looks great !
What a beauty! Congratulations on completing a major step!
Torque patterns are always from inside to outside and depending on the material you're torquing down, and the torque required you may need to step up the torque as you go along.
A good idea is too change the gaskets at the propeller shaft as well, in swedish "packbox" 😉
It’s so much easier to do engine work when its not in the cramped engine compartment isn’t it? Good job on the install....didn’t the previous owner give you the manual that he was referring to? And what was the final decision ATF or engine oil?
Mads, use some Silicone grease / spray on the rubber parts, it will help protect them from drying out which will extend their lifespan
This is an excellent point, I have had this same experience, couldn't recommend enough...
From the Volvo 130s manual: WARNING! The rubber sleeve must be installed
dry. No kind of grease, silicone sealant
or other sealant may be used.
Thank you...much fun to watch
It might be worth it for you to find out from Volvo exactly why they changed such an important specification.
I maintained two Harley Davidsons and two sailboat diesels for years.....and changing an oil spec is definitely a BIG issue as transmission oils and engine oils are quite different; engine oil has to adapt to large temperature differences, especially in cold weather (10w30, 20w50 etc..)...not the transmission oils
Cheers
Awesome job. Looks great. Congrats
Milestone!she can float!!!