How we made our Sailboat's Engine 50% quieter - [Ryan's Tech Corner]
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2023
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For years, our engine was the bane of our existence, but also a necessary evil. This year, as we prepare to potentially motor more than usual, we decided to do something about it and re-insulate the engine room.
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![WATCH THIS before installing lithium batteries on your sailboat ⚡ [RYAN'S TECH CORNER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vraRhNpEWcE/mqdefault.jpg)
If you are watching this video shortly after its release, you may notice a “minor discrepancy” in the sailing plans we discuss in this video VS last week’s 😉
That is because this particular video was produced a few weeks before we decided to alter our plans! If you’ve missed it, here’s the episode about some untold and harsh realities of sailing as a lifestyle in which we talk about our plans and how they’ve changed: ua-cam.com/video/I_xpYEED7uE/v-deo.html
The best part of diesel engines is the sense of relief when you turn them off and the only sounds are the waves on the hull and the wind on the sails.
Ryan you should know that about 50% of the engine noise come from the intake wrapping your intake line might decrease your noise level as much as the work you have done. I worked on a project to reduce the noise level in RV 's generators and that is what we found. love you and Sophie both, sweet dreams!
Ryan, are you saying to wrap any piping leading up to the throttle body? I know on a diesel there other big sources would be the hydraulic head/ injector pump.
@@MisterSunday yes
I love the Tech Corner!
While watching the measurements, I kept saying: "tell the people about the dB scale, tell them -3dB is half". I was relieved at the end 😊
Well done!
Can we agree that was a complete waste?
@@thinkcasting3182 This depends very much on how high (or how unrealistic) your expectations are. Getting 3dB out of a (special) foam (halving the noise) is a pretty good result in my book. A good part of the noise cannot be removed by acoustic insulation. The engine is coupled to the hull, the vibrations will propagate. The engine is coupled to the shaft, the shaft goes through the hull, it will make noise. The engine needs air. Where the air comes in, the noise will come out. I'll stop here.
So, my opinion stays: foam, 3dB (half the noise) , thumbs up. You are entitled to a different opinion.
😎
If it hasn't been mentioned already, don't forget your engine air intake. I put an Edelbrock racing airfilter on my Perkins 4-108. I was surprised what a difference it made.
Yeah air inlet noises are not to be forgotten, yanmar engines have no air silencer boxes. Donaldson CPL filters are cheap and used on many Kohler gensets with yanmar engines just to make them much more quiet. The difference in sound pressure is night and day!!
What model did you use
@@donzimari Don’t know the model number off hand. It was the one that would fit. I had to cut the mounting piece off of the Perkins part and welded up an adapter to fit the air filter. Pretty simple
@@donzimari just a compatible filter sized for the inlet using the normal inlet cover with an hose over it.
Love Ryan’s scientific approach using the decibel meter proving the outcome. It’s been a while since we were all together but I’ve noticed Ryan has absorbed Sophie’s humour irony delivery over the last couple of years 😊
every boat should have a foam machete.
nice vid
An added bonus for the soundproofing you used is that your engine compartment is much brighter.
It’s definitely worth it! When you are basically “forced” to hear anything repetitive at those levels for extended periods of time, even a small bit makes a huge difference to me and enables me to “relax”. It’s really maddening because it affects your attitude & attention to everything & everyone else & you’re “mad” mentally and take it out in other ways that aren’t constructive. It keeps me from giving anything my full attention. (I owned a sign shop…lots of machines.😂 )
Hi Ryan. Not got to the end yet, but something that can help make even More difference to the noise level if you can fit it, is to add soundproofing to the walls inside the aft Cabins that are next to the engine room. the thinner sheets of soundproofing could make the difference worthwhile, plus should be a lot easier to fit than inside the engine room as well. Best Wishes. Bob. 👍⛵️✨️✨️✨️
Decibels are a logarithmic scale so -3 dB is half as quiet and getting a -4dB reduction in the rear cabin is really good. (I posted that just before you did the summary at the end!)
Excellent!
Outstanding quality video! Congrats, Ryan, its flawless as such, and the progress vs earlier videos is amazing. Great job for both West Marine and the audience.
I have to say Ryan, I love your tech videos! You do them so well.
Two things to consider addressing; the engine's air intake and the exhaust tubing.
Nice. A job done well is a job well done. I love when you do the tech corners as they cover a lot a detail and you always explain why
Thanks for your feedback I am going to start this on our Benateau 405
Great share Ryan👍👍
We used the same material for our engine compartment.
We noticed the same thing. We loved it.
Ah, nice! I'm glad you explained the DB scale, I did not realize that,!
Not only useful, but that was a very neat job in the back corners of the engine bay as I’m sure cutting the material and then aligning it accurately on those retention spikes isn’t anything like as easy as it might seem. Nice job 😊
Seal with tape any cracks.
Noise travels like water. You have to seal closed any gaps.
Weight of the insulation also plays a part. The heavier the better.
Polar Seal gets a heartbeat makeover. Pretty job
I just have to let the two of you know, I love the way your channel and its content have matured. Are used to watch you guys often on in the beginning. But for me, it was tough to get a stride with the content and format. After a break and now coming back over the last six months, I have really enjoyed your honest and insightful approach to sailing content on UA-cam. As somebody who is almost at the stage of making the commitment, I just don’t need to see more pain killers, and soggy dollar bar episodes. Thank you so much for putting out not only interesting, but insightfully relevant videos.
Nice video, as always. Good information and the presentation always come with some humor and are very enjoyable.
In addition, we have the same boat, the 2008 model, and no teak deck, so the North American version. We learned an awful lot about our boat just by following your videos-all good stuff.
We hope that you are making your trip through the canals. We are in the upper Chesapeake Bay and have considered a similar trip.
I love the purr of my old Perkins. It knocks me out, blocks out rig noise, clanging pots, plates, etc.
Very good advice. 👍
Really interesting video, Ryan. Now you can hear Sophie better as required 😁 (and Barny too). Thanks for sharing. All the best,,,
Enjoyed your video, great info, and your very clean engine room! Looks great! Now I want to do the same✌
That's perfect! I need to redo all the insulation in the generator housing. Totally falling always and it is loud! Oh! Maybe the RO pump too :)
Love the video❤
One of my favorite sail trips was from Chicago out the St Lawrence seaway with stops on the Atlantic coast, throigh the panama canal, to the Galapagos and ending in Honolulu.
In truth, i was ready to get off that boat. I was a counseler for violent youth who had been placed ok the boat in a pilot rehab program. Oh the stories ive got.
50% les insane is great! Safe travels ❤️
Even on UA-cam the _character_ of the sound is much less harsh! Thx for the vid!
Oh, I really like that sound insulation something I’m very interested in
That's a big improvement. I think there are some other tweaks which will reduce noise: Engine mountings, injector maintenance.
This season the engine will drive us 50% less insane xDDD... Love it
Thanks Ryan, hopefully the ‘hammering’ from the engine will be lessened a bit too, also it’s not just the pure decibels but the type of sound too.
Any gaps or crack are huge sound transmitters as are any loose covers , you might try clips to hold covers /doors tight to reduce noise that way too ( slightly longer engine access though).
Fyi you can get free phone apps that are decibel meters too!
Cheers Warren
We love West Marine.
I used to work on a navy base and they used graphite impregnated foam for sound insulation. They also used it in a "silent" room where they tested radar missile seekers. I don't know the cost of it compared to what you used, but this stuff sure did keep sound from passing through.
There are two things that is very important to note when doing insulation in engine room like this. Engine room Ventilation and Engine air suction (calculated separately). Each engine manufacturer have specifications for these two parts, if not followed you will get problems with your engine down the road and higher fuel consumption is guaranteed.
The pins and spray adhesive remind me of doing commercial ductwork installation.
even if the swap didn’t produce drastic noise reduction, the old foam was starting to fail and was likely to start affecting the air filter as it disintegrated into dust… that is, it was a job needing to be done soon anyway.
Love the tech corners! You should add a reference of how long the work actually took so we can appreciate the complexity of boat work! And I'm only talking about the actual work, not the preparation, nor when you have to adapt and re-prepare. So how long did this one take?
I love your videos, however I would like to add if you had added double insulation where possible you would have noticed much more reduction. I also would have added more lights prior to insulation. Great video and yes I no longer sail. You two are really fun to watch.
My tayana 55 has a layer of lead on the back of that foam .
Making the engine compartment completely airtight will help also, vents to have soundtrap barriers, shaft tunnel to be soundproofed too or shaft penetration through insulation.
I could hear the difference!!
Cool install Ryan. You may want to put some EVA/Butyl foam under your muffler if it’s directly fixed to the glass to steal a few more dB👍
nice acoustic mod...well done!
it also helps to pay regular attention to the correct valve clearance as well as injector opening pressure setting and timing.
the engine mounts obviously are a huge factor to the noise transmitted, check if there are liquid filled mounts as well as various different (preferrably softer) shores available.
edit: the last resort could be some noise cancelling headphones 😀
Yanmar engine mounts are not liquid filled
@@rhirwin10 hydraulic motor mounts, or hydro motor mounts are available in a wide range of dimensions and mounting options, i am sure it doesn't have to be a Yanmar product if you are looking to improve your set up.i did a 2min google search and i already found plenty of Yanmar replacement options, with various damping characteristics and even in stainless steel...
I installed a sigma drive on the shaft, it significantly reduced the engine noise and vibration when the prop is engaged.
You have sound power level and perceived loudness confused. The sound power level halves every 3db, but this only represents a 20-25% decrease in perceived loudness. Still worthwhile, but not half the noise.
Beautiful. I use wool. It's fire resistant, long life, and installed with round aluminum fender washers screwed in place.... No glue. Small diesels are often optimised to run at 1750 RPM. If the injection timing is slightly retarded, idle and low speed become smoother and a smidge more efficient = quieter at low speed. You can also carve rubber engine mounts with a Stanley Sureform and cut out leather washers to mount noisy equipment.
Another thing that’s also interesting is the frequency scale. If you remove the higher frequencies, it will also feel much more quiet.
That's funny. I'm just replacing the sound deadening of the pump compartments on our Leopard 48 sailing catamaran with new material. And guess what - the factory has already used what Ryan put in on Polar Seal. Kudos to Robertson&Caine for not using the cheap stuff... 👍
There are more things you can do to decrease the volume, some more extreme than others!
On the lower end of the extremity scale is to use automotive sound-deadening panels - these are designed to lower the resonant frequency of large flat sheets, such as the wall to your cabin, and the hull itself - they work by adding weight to the panel, which lowers its resonant frequency below the audible range.
Further up the scale there is swapping the engine mounts, which you have already done.
Then we get to the really extreme stuff!
If you have space to introduce a pair of CV joints between your gearbox and packing gland then this reduces the amount of vibration transmitted from the engine to the prop-shaft and then to the hull itself.
Next we have the ultimate in noise reduction, which likely also comes with the ultimate cost. Balancing the engine - by stripping the engine down and removing the pistons and connecting rods, you can weigh each piston/rod pair and then shave bits of metal off the skirt of the piston until they all weigh the same amount.
By doing this you're removing the vibrations at the source, since when all the components of the engine are in balance with each other they don't vibrate so much to begin with - this results in not only a quieter engine, but also better performance/fuel-economy, and increases reliability of the engine because it's not constantly trying to tear itself apart.
😊 yes, get that stink pot blueprinted & balanced.. NICE..!
PS
For the penultimate in noise reduction:
I found this info.. "When LPG is injected into a Diesel engine, it enhances fuel economy and power by making better use of the air it consumes. The end result:
1). much lower harmful emissions,
2). increased power & torque,
3). & the system pays for itself with increases in fuel mileage!"
Thrust: be extremely mindful of where the thrust from the prop is transferred to the hull. The most common place/connection are the gearbox/engine mounts. CV joints are not designed for that force/thrust.
JUST a heads-up from a (former) tech/engineer.
So much cleaner too! It would be nice to not have the little bits of old insulation appearing around the engine bay.
Ryan if you can find electronic injectors and electronic fuel system for that engine it would reduce the noise level dramatically. The problem is that is creating so much noise is the mechanical injectors, this how the auto industry has reduced the noise level of diesel powered trucks so much. And also electronic injectors could give the engine more power.
Would it be cost effective, I don’t know. But there is lots kits available for diesel engines in performance parts. But since this engine is not a road version power plant their may not be a set up for it.
It is considered a stationary engine, I think, so you may have try to find out if something is available. If you haven’t already. And it would also require a computer engine control module.
Yes it is noticeable. But I was hoping it would be more quiter.
Nicely done..... just add noise cancelling AirPods or Bose quiet comfort headphones depending on how you roll. These don't absorb the noise but attempt to apply noise 180 degrees out of phase with the noise that it hears at same frequency. They tend to work better with noise at lower frequencies as its spectral response is better.
Ryan, it's NOT a "...salon..."!! It's a SALOOOOOOOON!!
Hello. Thank you for all your content. We look forward seeing you each week. Are you able to let me know what video editing software you use. Thank you, Mike
More important, I think the insulation changed the nature of the sound from the engine. Not all sounds are equal. While the camera may have something to do with it, the engine didn’t seem to have the sharp rattle it did before. You could likely reduce the cabin noise more with additional sound barrier and a false wall.
Whatever helps✌️💜
If you’re already 100% insane , where does 50% more insane put you ? 🤪🤣🍻🍻🍻
Look again to your intake....use a sound muffler from the ventilation industry, cheap and good. When possible, instal some heavy material on the outside walls of the motor compartment. Look at drywall material that is resistant to vibrations. For the trip: invest in a good headphone with active noise reduction..I prefer Sony.
Thanks for the videos. First question is are you making cutouts for the devices that need to mount to the wall? Some looked like it. Others seemed to be on the surface of the sound proofing. Cutouts will transmit a fair amount of noise. Any thoughts on the trade-offs or best approach.
Secondly, it seems like a miracle that you hit the pins accurately enough to have the precut panel fit correctly. Any tips or tricks that helped?
I would suggest lead sheets mounted to the panels underneath your new sound insulation?
That's probably not a good option now as you have already glued it. The best you could do now is put the lead sheets on top of your insulation. Sound energy is mostly heat. Lead sheets absorb that heat energy. Line the bilge as best you can around the engine compartment as well. Check shafts and upgrade shaft joints and tune props. I would love to see the results after those additional upgrades. You should see dramatic results. Best of luck, enjoying your content!
Change the exhaust muffler and install the intake filter in a muffler box with insulation wrapped around the intake pipes. All car manufacturers are able to reduce the sound of a diesel car motor mostly using these parts. You can barely hear the diesel in my VW Toureg inside and out.
$1000!!?? Good thing y'all are sponsored. West Marine is expensive AF.
Goo gone is really decent, even for pulling decal residue off of guitars! Strange, but your comparison with acetone reminds me of experiments that guitar builders go through. I was concerned that it would damage the wood, but it doesn't! Maybe you should start building guitars on the side!
I am curious if you looked at non-marine products like those from the auto industry? I have used a few products like hush mat in antique cars with good results. Given they are not designed for a marine environment.
Insulation cutting machete. Oscillating insulation cutter needed.
when you hear a thumping don't come knocking, just call out its just the engine keeping us awake
Hi Ryan. What do you have on the right which looks like a pc power adapter? On 1:22
I know it's a bit late, but i wonder what the decibel level change would have been only changing the insulation on the doors.
💯
Your dry humor leaves me rolling on the floor....bahahahaha!!!
70db and above is considered "harmful" so getting the levels below 70db is good for your hearing and overall health.
Is there a way to sound insulate the bilge?
hey ryan - do you know how to ship a dakota lifepo4 to europe/uk from north america ?
I think I would have went with the first layer of dynamat then the additional on top
So then you used non certified materials?
What is the octave band sound reduction index R on your chosen mylar film foam?
I think 45mm cork is better!
I have some Stihl hearing protection devices - overhead strap with ear covers if want quieter. Kind of defeats the purpose of being on a sailboat though. I thought it was funny so I threw that comment in there for you. Hope you got a laugh out of it too.
I used waterproofing paint like rubber And the sound was reduced dramatically.
There are active noise cancelling machines. I have not idea of the cost. at the source (engine compartment) and Bubble (around your head in the cabin) And interesting experiment would be to put on some noise cancelling head phone and test the results. If that works then installing an active system around your head in you berth.. If that helps then adding active to the engine compartment.. Of course only if it is noise/cost effective. The practical/cheap solution, I work on drilling rigs where something is always running loudly and someone is always banging on something. A noisy fan in my bedroom ,"white noises out" darn near all of it, along with some foam ear plugs, I'm out pal...
Keep in mind the db level is a logarithmic scale. So, 10 db change is 10 times as loud.
As most of us actually watched the whole video before trying to prove how clever we are, this was explained in a much clearer way than you did.
I thought that 6db reduction or increase in noise level would effectively increase or decrease noise by half or increase by double ?
You thought wrong, as explained in the video. We get informed and entertained on this channel.
Ryan, you need to trade in the sail boat for a motorhome. Wheels instead of sails.
"it's almost as efficiency as therapy.....almost" ;-) haha..
Hummmmmm all that for -3db......LOL. I used to soundproof Lincolns and then F250 diesels at FOMO. Not easy to quiet down noise it takes a lot more dense material at the wall then foam then dense then foam........Get it twice as much as you think. And I mean that stackup gets heavy to hang. Just look under the mats, firewall and engine compartment of a diesel ford truck layers of rubberized foam.
Use oscillating multitool .
Electric motor?
Ah, Boat yoga.......... A good result though
He did a good job. But what about noise cancelling headphones? Fall asleep to whale sounds.
Why not convert to an electric motor?
I meant dB iso Db, sorry for that
Hello there
Hi!!! Happy Monday! :)
If Honda only made a diesel. It might be quiet 😏
Aluminium ducters tape
Foam ear plugs 26-29 db reduction only $0.80. Bob's your Uncle.