[TF2] Meter-Building Weapons
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- "Now... I'm motivated!" Also known as "Ultimates" or "Supers", in this video, we discuss some TF2 weapons that take time and effort to charge, but reward you handsomely when you do. Maybe. Let's dive in.
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![[TF2] Beginner's Trap Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xz9XE-NbdkU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Beginner's Trap Weapons](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Self-Healing Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IZTfXzGQtaE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] The Huntsman VS The Sniper Rifle - A Balance Discussion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vQdbmPC-jbE/mqdefault.jpg)
A few people have been commenting about the Baby Face's Blaster so I wanted to clear that up. I chose not to talk about it in this video because it's meter acts more passively, with the boost being gained and lost without a real "ultimate" or "super" at the end (Like the Focus, Hype, Crikey, or Mmph). It's meter is more used as a visual representation of a passive buff rather than a tangible "super". Compared to everything we discussed in this video, the BFB meter functions a bit differently if that makes sense.
As a trade off, I'd like to mention that I HAVE talked about the BFB twice separately in scripted videos in the past. Both in my "Weapons Valve Actively Hates" video and in my "50 Kills With Every Scout Primary in One Day" video. So if you wanna hear me talk about it, you do have options. Thanks all! I hope you enjoy regardless.
fun fact, the hitman's heatmaker can activate its focus no matter at what amount you have it, either 1% or 100%, i only know this cause its every snipers main weapon in mvm.
WHAT, WHY THE FUCK DID NOBODY TELL ME THIS
@@MariaFlores-KAIICould have sworn he only said that it requires 5 assists or 3 kills to fill, not that it can be activated from any charge level.
Edit: Never mind, he just waited a bit.
actually its the huntsman, the strength of lower range, No crowd control, and such make it way better
I have been playing TF2 for 12 years and I am ONLY JUST LEARNING THIS
I THOUGHT YOU NEEDED FULL CHARGE
A note that makes the carbine even more awkward to use:
The CRIKEY effect cannot be activated during a reload. If you have autoreload on, you can fire a shot to cancel the reload and activate the effect. This can be really awkward to do if you built your meter and then immediately holstered the carbine. And in the event the weapon is empty and holstered, you're forced to equip it, reload it, then activate CRIKEY. This is for obvious reasons very awkward and clunky to do in a pinch.
You’re telling me a meter builds these weapons?
bro i know crazy right?
Meanwhile, at Mann Co. HQ...
"A METER COULD NOT BUILD THIS!" ~ Saxton Hale, probably
I'm pretty sure the Soda Popper has a hidden downside that gives it the same penalty to bullet spread as the Force a Nature. It might just be a rumor though, but it feels accurate in-game.
The crafting recipe for this requires a force-a-nature I believe, and even looks like one, so the similarities make sense.
Okay, the videos are great, but seeing the Mercs in different team colors, but having those team colors still adhere to the color scheme of the game has really made me want to play on GRN Co. & PURP Ind.
Typical colors 2:
I've always felt like there was a lot of design potential for meters on melee weapons.
Imagine if the KGB crit on kill mechanic was a meter you could time when to use, or if there were a combo-centric melee weapon that gave you a special attack if filled. Maybe even tame that second one and flip it around for a defensive option that gave you a short burst of damage resistance like an active parry.
what you are describing is essentially activating the buffalo steak sandwich and I gotta say, that feels pretty bad.
@@HellecticMojo What if it's more like the Heatmaker or Manmelter? Like the more hits you land maybe the more Parry's you get, and you can negate a melee attack or gain a quick speed boost by spending it, or a dash, you know, something creative and dynamic that doesn't lower your effective health. There's actually lots of things you could do with a melee based meter/special system, maybe even allowing it to combo with primary and secondary weapons by having the melee be a combo starter. Lots of things!
@@redactedoktor both the heat maker and manmelter feel like garbage to use because you rapidly alter your playstyle or speed when using it.
Everyone pretends to like "interesting" mechanics but what they want is just an escalation of what they were already doing. Bazaar bargain and heatmaker have similar design goals of rewarding skill with increased efficiency over stock, but one is considered a monster while other a completely forgotten weapon.
@@HellecticMojo Well I personally enjoy shotgun heavy eviction notice combos, the manmelter, and heat-maker, so maybe that's just me :(
If I'm looking at it right, I believe the design of Hitman's Heatmaker loosely resembles that of the VSS Vintorez, a Soviet era sniper rifle made distinct by the suppressor integrated into the gun barrel.
It was basically a large tube with washers (the kind you would use with nuts and bolts) welded inside. The washers were welded in at a certain angle so that when the gun was fired, the bullet would pass through the bolt holes in the washers but the report of the rifle was massively quieter.
its also hugely inspired by the w2000, such a weird gun
I personally always thought the phlog was meant to be a more extreme version of the backburner and that we should play it that way. Sneaking around for an ambush, except of course we deal crits by burning enemies in any direction instead of just the back, but no airblast instead of being the most expensive airblast cost
Though, this would make the phlog even more broken
imagine the phlog airblast is just 201 ammo and you just never have enough to do it
the soda popper can definitely still be good without its meter, whenever i use it i end up forgetting to use the meter and still do well lol
The Carbine could be SO COOL if it had an accuracy buff of 20-30% reason being it gives it a legitimist niche to be used as a more midrange poke tool and would also allow for more consistent building of the Crickey meter
I swear thats Gura at roughtly 8:12
I love counterpicking demoknight against pisswacka, if you time your charge correctly, the sniper completely wastes his jarate and now he's left without crits and a literal demoknight charging at him.
On the other hand, if he times it well, you're covered in piss and quickly approaching where he wants you to be.
@@Rogeryoo the entire point of even timing your charge is to cancel out the debuff the moment you get hit by the piss
2:48 , ayy he finally got the animation loop right
9:44 nvm
Expect nothing, deliver less.
The real secret with using the cleaners carbine is just using it exactly the same as you would the SMG, emergency self defense and cleaning up low health enemies, then treating the crikey as more of a nice bonus or emergency emergency close range option in combination with the Bushwakcka.
Running out guns ablaze with the carbine is less effective than running out guns ablaze with the SMG, needless to say not very effective.
Hitman's heatmaker is surprisingly good. Compared to the Stock and Bazaar Bargain. Also, if Stock Sniper Rifle does not have good fedback, try the AWPer Hand.
Cleaners Carbine would be better if either the magazine side was 30 and reserve was also improved to match(30 magazine size and 90 reserve) or faster fire rate. However what you mentioned about fire rate ramp up plus my suggestion for ammo increase and maybe even make Crikey meter give increased reload speed on Cleaners Carbine would make it even better.
as in. Proposed buffs for Cleaners Carbine is:
30 magazine and 90 reserve
fire rate ramp up the longer you fire and
Crikey meter gives increase reload speed on Cleaners Carbine.
I think it would be intersting.
Soda Popper would be interesting if it had the Hype meter(Bonk Atomic Punch can for Jumping) and Psyche Meter(Critacola can for minicrits for 8 seconds either as a Soda popper buff or Cleaners Carbine minicrit buff, although a Soda popper only buff would be better, Crita cola exists. maybe give the Soda's 50HP on use that can heal like Dalokosh bar to make then good at sustain. I am of the opinion that we need to improve weapons to be good, not everything bad) which would be intersting to see and use.
Pyro's Phlogistinator. Strap in, we are going for a ride!
First and most important, Phlog gets no airblast for the alt fire becoming the Short Circuit like Delete ball that costs 65 ammo.
second. the Mppph meter, get 50HP that can Dalokosh bar type healing, and we remove the problem of the older version that healedyou completly, while also allowing for surivability and the crits could be minicrits instead.
Short circuit might benefit from the primary fire getting the Widowmaker stat of sentry fire marked foes get more damage from the weapon(Wodowmaker and Short circuit would benefit from 15% or 20% more damage on targeted foes), and primary attacks give ammo on hit(maybe up to 20 ammo or more depending on what we need) to make it better
what do you think of this?
Aggressive sustained counterfire?
i remember the good old days before sods popper was nerfed to charge with dsmage instead of movement. it was great for exploring maps on community servers.
Cleaner’s Carbine is my go-to secondary for Huntsman. Still enough to one shot light classes after a body shot and crickey allows mini-crit arrows which is very deadly plus Bushwacka for obvious reasons
This is barely relevant now that I think about it but I’m gonna say anyway, As a medic mean sometimes when I run the kritzkreeg and see a sniper that has an SMG it’s a dumb but surprisingly effective strategy to give him the kirtz because it’s just kinda funny to see a sniper melting people with his SMG. This is the true carbine that cleans the battlefield free of enemies.
If you can stand on an enemy or tank while taunting with the phlog you can mmmph for longer by taunt cancelling
and those meters make HUD developer goes insane
i dont think the soda popper is banned in sixes because of its comparison to the scattergun, but rather because it gives scout ridiculous extra mobility that he really doesnt need that just allows him to bully soldiers even more than he already does. its not that its overpowered compared to scattergun but rather that scout already makes soldiers his bitch and doesnt need more help.
fun video!
Fat magic has taught me that the heat maker can also ignore the half second of scope-lock that you get after firing a shot while focus is active
Which can come in clutch for quickscoping
I like using the carbine with the huntsman sometimes, a 162 damage arrow bodyshot is no joke, and the closer range playstyle of the huntsman fits the carbine better
The soda popper is banned in comp because it’s so good at bursting (+ hype is really strong against projectile classes ofc) I don’t think that many ppl are underestimating it actually
Your description for your love of the hitman’s is exactly why it because one of my first strange professional killstreak weapons. Idk what about it makes it feel better than some other rifles, but I absolutely adore using it
I'm a High Tour Harry myself, and I can certifiably say that the Hitman's Heatmaker is a god-tier weapon in MvM and is basically the Gas Passer but on steroids. Very fun to use, 10/10.
I think it says a lot about how much I like Medic that, when you said he was your least played class, my first thought was “good, I’ll cover your bases there.”
Definitely not for discussing the mediguns, though. I’d much rather forget the Vaccinator ever existed.
Unexpected crit bushwacka tears are the only reason I use the cleaners carbine, it's just hilarious 😂
Give the sniper a coat at 9:08! hes freezing!
Very nice, the TF2 idea well never dries up.
Holey shit Metal Slug reference at 1:54
I don't see why you'd get heat for picking sniper in MVM. He's well recognized as a necessary class for most tours. Unless you're using the huntsman (even though it's fun), sniper is a very respected choice.
I'd kinda like to hear more about how these mechanics themselves affect the weapon they're on. Like, if you swapped out the meters for Heads, how would these weapons change?
Meters in tf2 act as effectively a stance system, giving you a Super Mode and a not-Super mode. Conversely, Heads grant slowly increasing buffs that are always on.
Pyro snowballing into an unstoppable inferno engine? Scout farming an extra double jump per kill? Sniper... I dunno, getting an extra no-unscope shot per head? Bazaar Bargain already does the head thing.
All of those sound awful, actually.
Cooldowns on the other hand usually apply a debuff... Maybe the Phlog would pour explosive Gas Passers or something.
While I’ve never used the Carbine, the SMG itself was a bit of a problem for me. I used to use it exclusively, since I didn’t really want to get in melee range of anyone who got in close to me. And so I got a front row seat to just how terrible it is: in the situations I wanted to use it, it simply did not do enough to save me. I use the Camper now, regen does just a bit more for me in the long run.
First I want to start off by saying good video, it's interesting getting other peoples' takes on these kinds of items in tf2.
I've been playing since 2011 and have somewhere around 2k-2.5k hours on pyro alone so please believe me, as a pyro main, when I say that using the scorch shot with the phlog is just bad. Well, actually I think using the scorch shot at all is kinda dumb since the detonator can do everything it can but better minus the knockback. It is by far a better pair with the phlog than the scorch shot. There are so many situations where the manual detonation of the detonator is just straight up better than the scorch shot's flare, plus detonator jumping gives you way more freedom as to when and where you show up with your phlog crits, not to mention it's the most consistent way to straight up cancel the mmmph animation and hold onto the couple seconds of uber that the activation gives by landing on an enemy's head and activating it. It is a bit more intricate than just "land on enemy's head and activate mmmph" but I'm not going any more in-depth with the explanation than that as it gets the point across. So please, please, PLEASE, learn how to use the detonator and stop using the scorch shot. And that wasn't directed at you, the creator of the video, it was directed at the wider TF2 community as a whole.
I also only take issue with what you had to say about the phlog because you said you're a heavy main but weren't using positioning to your advantage is most of the clips that you were using it in. Heavy mains of all people should know how important positioning is. Imo, if you use the phlog enough you'll learn how to position yourself better. But I do also agree that it does also teach a fair few bad habits to new players, but the scorch shot also teaches really bad habits. Like spamming flares down chokepoints and be as annoying as possible. You may get a few kills here and there but you're not helping your team that much with that strategy. I almost never see someone actually tapping into the greater potential that the scorch shot's knockback really has. It's always the same thing of spamming into a chokepoint to light groups on fire, or hit someone just outside of flame thrower range with splash damage to light them on fire. Both of which the detonator is just better at and was designed to do. I think the only reason people choose the scorch shot over the detonator is because it takes more brain power to time detonations than to just spam.
12:43
What if the Hitmaker and the Carabine have swapped Effects?
The focus make you deal minicrit with all your weapon and the crikey activate the Hitmaker effect for the primary
That sounds terrible
That just means you gotta swap weapons around and as he said, Sniper is not a combo class.
That is not gonna be a good thing
Ngl I'd love to hear an entirely separate video purely on the mediguns from you simply because now I'm curious about it.
I'll give this a watch later but I clicked on this without paying attention and thought I was going to watch optimals/labbed combos. 😭😆
this video is what taught me that the heatmaker doesn't need full charge to activate focus and I'm thinking maybe it'll be my favorite too
I always just assumed it needed to be full so i never tried activating it on partial
That Johnny Cage taunt is something
they should make a gamemode where alk weapons get a charge meater
What happens if you try to impale someone with your lightsaber does it just hit them with the metal or does the little yellow flame burn them a little bit
I'm surprised the hitman's heatmaker doesn't silent kill when not using the meter.
Its crazy to think that sniper would be slightly more powerful if he just pissed on all of his weapons instead of into jars
The phlog may not be able to extinguish, but you know what does? The manmelter.
You really miss charging that meter very fast though
literally mentioned in the video.
but really its a poor substitute, given you need to switch to it and unlike the degreaser, the phlog doesnt have a switch speed upgrade, meaning you waste precious milliseconds where your teammate can burn to death switching to the manmelter.
Plus running the manmelter means you dont run the scorch shot or detonator, which give you a significant edge in building mmmph meter thanks to their AOE fire damage projectiles
He's the person who doesn't play medic. GET HIM!
I love enemy Phlog Pyros actually, I can just shoot my rockets/pipe bombs at them without a care in the world. Beats having to wait the Pyro missfire their airblast and punishing him for it, or having a rocket reflected at me or an ally.
I feel like people give the Carbine too much flak when it is simply a slower smg, and the slower firing speed is what definitely throws people off about it. But when you hit your shots, it can surprisingly hold up with the stock in terms of finishing off targets and winning 1v1s against flankers.
The Carbine works better if you pair it with the Huntsman, a weapon that completely reverses the sniper's normal playstyle.
If there was anything I'd want to change about it, i'd want to give it a faster reload speed.
Yeah, but everything you said could apply to the stock with more forgiveness. Also I don't think huntsman wants an SMG. You can hit huntsman shots in close or midrange easier than quickscopes so I see no real reason to use it when I could piss combo or have a backpack for some survivability.
Fun fact the soda popper fires 9 pellets and fires with a fixed shot pattern like the panic attack and the shotgun from rec room
honestly carbine could be fixed with a simple +25% accuracy
this + mini-crits denying fall-off could make it pretty fun (biased, i already enjoy it) and easier to build meter up off of chip damage
doesn't fix the fundamental problems, dœ
Someone forgot about the gas passer...
mostly joking, but it DOES sort of charge with damage
19:18 omg this is so true
soldier mains are just the
Even if I try combo pyro I'm still use Phlog for a bit "Judgement" for thoes poor lil soul, other than casual Phlog is quite popular on mvm cuz y'know why lol.
someone has to not play medic, or else who would we heal?
The heat maker does make you more tunnel visioned too in the focus mode which makes you a lot more vulnerable to flankers like spies and scouts. Overall I’d say it is a very well balanced weapon and it’s honestly what the bazaar bargain should be like. That thing is just overpowered since it’s just stock but better with no downsides
PS you also forgot to mention how fucked you are against demoknights when you use the phlog. You literally went from their best counter to their free kill
18:41 Not about the commentary, but the footage... do I... do I see a Shin Getter pfp? Do I see a super robot fan?
This was a really nice video and you explained everything very well (even for your hatred against the phlogistinator lol) but what about the baby face blaster meter?
Edit: im dumb and didn't read your pinned comment lol
I absolutely adore your profile photo Sparky!
@@BryantVonMiller thank you!
@@SparkyTheRiolu You're most welcome Sparky! Did ya draw it yerself or have it commissioned or gifted?
@@BryantVonMiller oh well...i found it mostly haha i never said it was mine, but this image haves like...8 years being my pfp here on youtube so...yeeee
@@SparkyTheRiolu Hahaha thats pretty much how I found this photo over 10+ years ago. Lol good taste Sparky
You’re pretty cool teal opal. I like this channel
Thanks Tommy Tapia.
NOT THE TRUCK OPAL
"we're not going to talk about the banners because they charge passively?"
What? They take damage to charge. Maybe he meant passively as in you don't have to work for it, so he'll be emitting damage charged weapons?
"The first weapon is the heatmaker"
Oh what the hell.
So what if the Phlog built mmmph on taking damage instead of dealing it? Better design or even worse?
Waay worse
What of the Gas Passer?
For those who's interested Opals most played classes
...misc
pyro: 63h
soldier: 60h
spy: 47h
sniper 44
medic: 21
If you're interested in the full list, it's:
Heavy: 174 hours
Engineer: 89 Hours
Demo: 78 hours
Scout: 65 hours
Pyro; 63 hours
Soldier: 60 hours
Spy: 47 hours
Sniper: 44 hours
Medic: 21 hours
It's worth noting that I reset my time a few years ago. If I hadn't, each class would comfortably be over 100.
What about gas passer?
Even the weapon stats say it's a meter building weapon: "gas meter builds with damage done and/or time"
I think that it's so shit
He didn't bother with it
Why in gods name did valve remove the damage penalty from the phlog!?
23:40 i also don't think you should be able to uber plog pyros while they have crits, idk how many games i've just had ruined because no one on my team could leave spawn because of a phlog pyro being ubered and just coming back over and over killing everyone every time when we can't do anything it's more disruptive than bots at this point
ubering phlog pyro only works if your team has a lot of momentum tho (aka already winning by a big margin), this strat does not work if the teams are even or you're on the losing team. It's a win-more weapon meaning that it works wonders against bad players but being utterly useless garbage against ppl that remotely know what they're doing (he literally said in the vid that if the odds are greatly in your favor and the other team is exceptionally bad). I mostly play community servers and I rarely, if ever, see phlog pyros shredding the other team with a pocket medic and even when that happens, it's in games where one team is steam rolling the other team anyways and the phlog pyro is always on the rolling team. Just like what Teal Opal said, it's not difficult at all to walk out of the way and punish a pyro that's just wm1ing into you (literally just shoot his ass as flamethrowers deal 0 damage if you stay outside of their range, crits or not). It's just that most players in valve casual are so bad at the game and they panic and freeze when they see a pyro running at them with guaranteed crits and they forget they have an S key. Also think of this, the fact that the phlog needs to have a medic just so it can function already implies it's very weak on its own compared to pyro's other primaries, which are all functional without needing a medic up your ass 24/7. EVERYTHING in the game works wonders if you're ubered or when the other team is bad so it's nothing special. If your team gets rolled by a phlog pyro, it just means that your team is very bad. Heck i wouldn't even say soldier or demo, a single good enough sniper or scout is enough to stop a phlog pyro for good and render him useless
The reason why I use the carbine over jarate is because jarate is insanely overpowered, and I feel like a dweeb using it
Babyface's blaster exists
WHERE THE HELL IS THE BABY FACES BALSTER AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Building meters?
Did the engieneer become a parking attendant or something?
r u playing on contoller
"If you cleaned i up a bit and removed the meters you could mistake it for stock"
So the force-a-nature then :L
This is not next week
I like video no know what write this is for the algorithm
I don't enjoy the Phlog playstyle you describe
(spam flares then suicide in)
Instead try phlog+a shotgun for midrange without airblast
You're basically playing 2007 pyro (before airblast)
Pyro is janitor cleaning stray enemies
Make things simple for your power classes
Roam backline, health packs, flanks, etc
Find wounded or isolated enemies
Run away from bad fights
When you crit just take what you can get
Stay alive for key moments
Same for Backburner
BB is a fine alternative to stock
People get BB brain and have to go on spy missions
Or Phlog brain and have to aggro
Don't
I think pyro (even with phlog) is one of the least linear classes
There's always other places to go and other fights to take
I think that playstyle is the fault of the Scorch Shot rather than the Phlog itself
BFB after this:
I am a joke to you?
I didn't include the BFB because it's the only weapon in the potential discussion that loses its meter from anything other than death or the player using it. It seemed a bit too different mechanically than what I was going for, which are primarily weapons that act as "Supers" or "Ultimates".
Also I've already talked about it twice and do not like using it.
@@TealOpalDon’t blame you. Even as someone who did like using the current version, at some point the easily lost boost became too painful.
Real fun on CTF maps, though. If you get full boost and the enemy Engie’s asleep, you can just say f$&@ it and run off with the intel. Beyond that, though, the fragility of the snowball potential is too great; a unique flavor of fun, but one that’s at risk every second you have boost.
mfw no baby face blaster
Bruh, The Phlog is a very bad weapon but fun. The Phlog is not at fault, the problem is and will always be the Scorshot being completely braindead to use...
I wouldn't say very bad (but yes, it is the worst of the slot)
Crits on a flamethrower is still quite powerful
But yes, it's still underpowered, maybe give it like a Vaccinator type meter, each meter gives airblast
Also yeah, Scorch Crotch too powerful
@@RandomFurry07 Nah, it is the worst of its slot but it doesn't need a change. Airblast does a lot for the Pyro, that's why the ability to store crits to activate on demand is justifiable. I don't get mad at a Pyro if he manages to catch me off guard with crits because if I am playing:
Scout: I could have gotten away in the time the taunt ends.
Demo or Soldier: He is always an easy target to juggle without airblast.
Sniper or Medic: I deserve death if I let him get that close to me.
Engineer: He only would approach if me if all my stuff is dead at which point, I might as well be.
Heavy and Spy are the only classes I do feel frustrated since there is nothing I could have done to avoid death...
i love men
1:10 you are wrong, to activate a banner you need to do damage
He literally said
Building the meter with the weapon ITSELF
@@RandomFurry07 i didn't understand that, thanks
Idk what to write but first
This video made me fail NNN
overwatch
Hi.
I’m so early
third