[TF2] Beginner's Trap Weapons
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- We were all new to TF2 at some point, and these weapons may or may not have helped us. Let's take a look.
Twitch: / tealopal
Trade URL (Donations will never be sold): steamcommunity.com/tradeoffer...
I own none of the copyrighted materials used in this video, and am not trying to claim or express any ownership over them. - Ігри
![[TF2] Meter-Building Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/plYo3b8Taa0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Meter-Building Weapons](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Self-Healing Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IZTfXzGQtaE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Ranking Every Minigun! (For Casual)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bHn3mV0p2qw/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] The Huntsman VS The Sniper Rifle - A Balance Discussion](/img/n.gif)
Hey all! I hope you enjoy. I want to stress that this video is in no way entirely comprehensive, and that the weapons that different new players latch onto can vary wildly from person to person. I was just speaking from my experience for this video. Feel free to share YOUR beginner's trap weapon experiences in the comments. Thanks all! Time to get back to whatever it is I do.
While I understood that the video is mostly about the effects of the weapons on the beginners, I have to bring up the fact that you didn't mention the Shotguns and Market Gardener during the Liberty Launcher section.
The mobility provided by the Liberty Launcher was meant to allow you to close the gap between you and the enemies so you can do high damage with the Shotguns or Market Gardener. I know this is some advanced techniques though, not just equipping your banner and only using primary.
Also, how does the Sydney Sleeper teach players not to prioritize headshots though? It just have a weaker headshot compared to stock.
I maybe wrong to say this, but I like to compare the Sydney Sleeper with the Big Earner. Both of them offer a speed advantage (faster charge rate and speed boost on kill), but while the Sydney Sleeper can be helpful without headshots, the fact that you don't have to backstab an enemy to gain a speed boost doesn't mean you should stop backstabbing, but rather encourage it because of the reduced health. Therefore, I still think the Sydney Sleeper encourage people to headshot, you are one-shotting a regular Soldier instead of crippling him after all.
*phlog flames move faster I think
When I first started, I always ran Natascha Heavy. I went on godlikes and it wasn't until I played the game more I realized I was playing as a sadist and it's safe to say I ruined many people's days
As a demo knight main, I hate the Natascha with a burning passion. I used to use it a lot today, but I never want to touch it again. It’s not fun when your entire play style is nullified by one person, and you can’t even escape
@timbuktuesday It's infuriating, isn't it? Back then, I didn't know that. I didn't understand the effects that my play style choice had on people just trying to play the game. I don't know what made me stop using it but I'm glad I did, and as I'm sure the other people I play against are as well.
@@timbuktuesday just spam a and d
instant counter
Keep going, RUIN THE FUN FOR EVERYONE
@@timbuktuesdayi use that gun just to ruin your day and scouts days honestly
The Liberty Launcher is an interesting case, because it seems to be designed to be used more so as a secondary. It allows you to play roamer with a shotgun, but in doing so the shotgun is your main damage dealer. This is not a bad thing but it gives this odd feeling because it goes against the conventional way of playing Soldier. I find it far from training wheels or a bad weapon, but it focuses more on a play style for someone that likes to jump a lot that doesn't want to be restricted by gunboats.
I mean you can also use gunboats to discount trolldier while not giving up a damage dealing primariy
Honestly the libery launchers super fun as a diet jumper that can still do damage if you run gun boats iwth it. You are purely diving on really low health classes with it but its genuinely REALLY fun for just how much movement you can do even when hurt. You can just dive bomb someone and still have like 2 or 3 rockets to get out often times and because the rockets almost never do above 20 damage when you jump with them while wearing gunboats you are literally just a pest that jumps in and jumps out before the enemy can really evne stop you. its not GREAT but its kind of exilerating just how much you can move around with the thing. Its weirdly effective on medics too for as middle of the road as it is. they sorta have trouble running away since you can just chase them with your rocket jumps since you barely take any damage while also having an extra rocket. Their lower health also makes them not too hard to kill with the liberty launcher too, if still harder than with stock. The air strike also kiiiinda can do this but the need to build up to having more rockets, the lower rocket speed, smaller blast radius, and the more damage you take jumping with it makes it kind of harder to actually use if you're not like really good with it. Air strike does have more options though if you can use it well but evne then that higher self damage still imo makes the liberty have a place in its own small niche.
Tbh at that point just go rocket jumper
the extra rocket is huge if you're running the gunboats trying to get market gardener kills, it allows you to chain more rocket jumps and get out easier, plus having an actual damage dealing rocket launcher for when you screw up is nice
could also run it with a banner and play a backline "Support Soldier", using the reduced self-damage to avoid direct fights and stay alive long enough to pop multiple banners.
With the Beast, occasionally I would notice a Demo or Soldier would shoot me three times and then immediately turn to face another target. I can only assume those guys are just so used to a Heavy dying in three shoots.
It's not about killing enemies
IT'S ABOUT PISSIN ON EM FROM 500 FEET AWAY
*"Professionals have standards"*
Pyro main here, the taunt noise for the phlog can be masked in the same way as Uber masking for medic, which is helpful for its main thing of catching players off guard.
However it is easily counterable by what is normally the reverse situation, any high damage projectile class like soldier or demo. Never understood why people called it OP when it destroys survivability for being able to play pyro like spy, in that you take advantage of people unaware, as soon as they become aware, you're dead from lack of airblast
I know. Right? Ive dealt with phlogs everywhere and they're only troublesome when they're pocketed or ubered. The same people who say phlog is overpowered are the same people who get killed by every kritz charge always. Just people who dont know the game enough to know how to respect kritz. Same with the people who use it, just people who dont know how horrifying and unchecked projectile class can be
I haven’t gotten to try this yet but is phlog cancelling still a thing in the game? Or do we not talk about it in fear of it getting removed atm ._.
@@Iwatoda_Dorm its still real but nobody does it. Even if someone does they tend to rely on it. once its out they die like any f2p phlog
I think Opal missed the mark on calling out the Phlog for being OP when the real menace is the Scorch Shot *combined* with the Phlog.
@@Iwatoda_Dorm
Phlog Cancelling is powerful, but you're still using a flamethrower with no airblast and a charge attack that requires lengthy buildup
The Phlog Cancelling strategies can be applied to the Backburner for more consistent results
Fun fact: Right clicking with the phlog when the mmmph meter is full you do the taunt and activate instant kill mode, instead of having to press G twice.
or if you're a new player, you probably don't have any taunts, so you only have to press G once, because fun fact: if you have no equipped taunts, then the taunt menu doesn't pop up.
I thought everyone knew this, weapon abilities are usually on M2
Ubersaw right click also activates the taunt kill
The Sydney Sleeper has a legit use in pubstomping, even if you can hit headshots. You can use it to stay hidden instead of having the kill-cam reveal your location. You intentionally try _not_ to kill your target, but take their health down so low that someone else is practically guaranteed to kill them. So for instance, a fully charged body shot to a soldier or pyro will leave them with 25-50 health _and_ jarated.... they rarely make it back to spawn. And for weaker classes, just dont fully charge. Because you only ever get assists, the kill-cam never reveals where you are at. There is a really nice hiding spot on a certain commonly played map where I always use the Sleeper. The only real downside is just accepting that you won't be the top fragger on your team. And if your team figures out what you are doing they'll love you for handing them easy frags.
Don't try this against veterans of the game though, as they'll know ever hiding place on a map and find you sooner rather than later. It's great fun for pubstomping though.
The Sydney Sleeper is actually a really good anti-sniper weapon, because if you can get a few cheeky kills on the enemy sniper with it you will tilt them super hard.
not quite, cuz snipers require vision, when you pay attention to the point you watch while charged, it's difficult to notice the threat elsewhere, for a decent sniper they just click your head within 0.5s💀💀
@@3cneall the more tilting when a bad sniper peepees you
(the whole point is to get elites aggravated with a suboptimal strat)
@@yargolocus4853 As someone who played full Croc-O-Style Sniper back before sets got broken - it was some of the most fun tilting enemy snipers to force them to spend 2 snipers to counter me instead of them focusing on my team, as one might get a cheeky headshot that I'd survive on 1hp due to the set and then cave their chest in and it'd take a second sniper effectively third-scoping in order to kill me.
That was unless I had a pocket medic (or a dispenser) hiding behind some cover so even if their second sniper tried to headshot me I'd survive it as long as I had 2hp or more after the first sniper's headshot.
While I do agree the brass beast is new player bait
In defence of the brass beast, it’s not a pushing weapon( aside from payload )it’s meant to make heavy more of an immovable object shredding most pushes aside from Uber when properly backed up by his team ( which I will admit is hard in casual )
A good brass beast is terrifying especially if it’s one sticking close to his engineer or medic . I will admit that it’s not better in a lot of situations due to it being a specialized weapon but in those situations it excels
yeah theres a reason the brass beast is actually pretty popular in 6s, because in 6s youre guaranteed to have teammates that will back you up, since on last holds the heavy is usually the main target of the enemy team, and as soon as its time to push out of last youre just gonna switch back to scout anyways
imagine picking up a brass beast near the enemy spawn💀💀
brass beast is definitely great if you a absolutely need DPS over mobility in a situation
To add to the defense of the Brass Beast, the shotgun pairs very well with it and allows you to go places you really shouldn't and abuse the raw power of the BB.
This is somewhat in defense of the shotgun too, in 1v1s a Fat Scout is surprisingly powerful. Once the minigun is revved and ramped up it'll outdamage the shotgun, absolutely. However, you're looking at maybe a 2 second delay before the minigun has the edge, at which point the enemy has already escaped, the shotgun would have already killed them, or you're already dead. Still usually not worth the loss of a lunchbox item especially if you stay near your team like a good Heavy, but if you're running the Brass Beast and plan to go for cheeky flanks...
Personally, I feel like the brass beast tends to further show the game state. If you're rolling (mainly on payload offense or practically spawn camping) then it's stronger than stock, but when you're loosing, it makes it even harder to get the crucial foothold to potentially turn the game around. And yes, it works much better with a shotgun than a lunchbox item, a shotgun's still a shotgun, even if the scout's not using it.
Little story for ya about the brass beast.
It's 2Fort with some serious play, I'm rocking the full hibernating bear set. My medic using the vaccinator, Red had taken our last intel and it was in the T section in their base where the medic and I held off the whole enemy team for 31 kills. Sure we lost in the end but damn was it fun, I'm probably one of the few 7,000+ hour players that like using the full hibernating bear set for fun.
I also think the Sydney Sleeper is the most balanced sniper rifle for SUPPORT.
Aye, the Sleeper is great as a sniper that supports their team, particularly as a counter-sniper to draw attention away from their team by pissing on (and pissing off) the enemy sniper.
I both fear and respect you
you mentioned this, but one of my favorite things to do as spy is to run one direction, cloak after getting chased, then just _stopping,_ and watching everyone scramble after where they think I went :)
I thought the community generally agreed that the Brass Beast had to be paired with one of the shotguns so that Heavy could have the best of both worlds.
I got an ad for cream cheese at the moment the second option for the "which is more fun" segment was supposed to play, so I think I will run cream cheese heavy from now on
The Sydney Sleeper maintains great use on the high end as a means to crush engineer nests from afar if even the engie's toe is poking out from behind his sentry which it often is. The faster charge time allows you to do a rapid 150 damage to the sentry if you can manage to tap out the engie, and another quick full charge shot or someone else firing at it, the sentry is gone. You also often just need to do only 150 or often less damage to the explosive jumping soldier/demo.
Sure, you can't immediately take out a heavy or do the bs quick two quickscope shots on them, but people forget that it charges up to do over a hundred damage in like a second of scoping in. It's also great to make cocky sniper mains that think they're unkillable really upset when you dominate them out by shooting them in the leg repeatedly on 2fort.
The Liberty Launcher combined with The Reserve Shooter is a powerful, but somewhat niche weapon combination, and something I've been trying to get as much practice in as possible. Plus, I love having the increased projectile speed throw off Pyros, it is hilarious.
Brass beast is actually my favorite minigun mostly because it slows down my gameplay. I like being the brick wall that my team rallies behind and my enemies bounce off of, that’s why I normally gravitate towards tank characters. So having a weapon that leans into that even harder was a no brained pick for me. Not that the others aren’t good as well. Stock is great for all around play, and if my team is having trouble pushing through a choke, I’m definitely pulling out the Tomislav. But for anything remotely defensive, or if im against a team who doesn’t have too many demos and snipers, my BB is attached to my hands with superglue.
Living sentry nest basically then?
The best part of the brass beast is the synergy with the chocolate, that extra 50 hp affects the damage resistance by raising it from 150 to 175.
This means that you can tank 4 rockets or 4 demo pipes at full health without medic healing.
I'm reminded of when I first started playing the game and unlocked the Kritzkrieg, back then I didn't know the different medi guns had different effects, all I saw was that +25% uber charge rate.
That said an experienced soldier did guide me to a four bomb assist with it
The banners work great with the Liberty Launcher because you can be in more places, hit harder to hit shots, and can stay in fights for longer. Sure it's probably not as good as stock, but it isn't a bad choice
I just want to say, the liberty launcher does act as somewhat good training wheels to a sidegrade to the standard on trolldier. The extra rocket can get you out of bad situations for the subclass with the extra rocket, and you don't need to worry about the lower damage because of meme spoon. And yes I know that it has a stigma of the "I can't hit my gardens" primary, but again, extra rocket.
As a spy main, it is worth noting the 15 percent louder decloak sounds absolutely makes uncloaking harder. With the stock invis watch, you can decloak RIGHT behind an enemy and they might not hear you, but with the C&D, you could uncloak around a corner about 5 steps away from your target and they’ll STILL hear you!
I like brass beast but more as an engineer nest guard sorta thing, taking down spies while still harassing enemies outside the turret's vision. That said, it's a strat that I only use on certain maps where there's a choke near The Sentry Spot for that part of the map, allowing me to multitask without having to move around much
Interestingly enough, the Brass Beast being my favorite minigun has affected how I play Engineer. I'll typically use the Eureka Effect so I am not beholden to ammo boxes or my Dispenser for metal, that way I can put my Sentry in a cheeky spot the enemy team won't expect, and my dispenser closer to the chokepoint for my team, especially the Heavies, to benefit from.
How I wish more engis would do the same for me when I play Heavy.
With the Sydney sleeper I find nothing more satisfying than having half the enemy team focusing me after 5 min cause I’m ‘piss’ing them off
honestly I think the Dragon's Fury is a much better training wheels weapon for Pyro, because while it has more costly airblast, it still allows you to use it, and its more gun-like fire system makes a better transition from hitscan type weapons to your literal fire hose as Pyro.
As one spy main said about the CaD, "One of the greatest strengths of the Cloak and Dagger is that it's very hard to tell when someone is using it." and another thing, they can be pretty scary if they know how to use it correctly
i will say that I sometimes find matches where I end up getting more use out of the Cloak and Dagger than I do stock simply due to factors like there not being a lot of ammo to grab on the way or otherwise just needing to go deeper than the default watch allows safely. It's somewhat rare but it's just something you'll have to recognize when you're in the match proper.
for the liberty launcher, it does pair well with the reserve shooter to become a combo soldier kinda thing, you get to keep a secondary without doing too much self damage with it so its easier to go in, combo some people, and get out
So funnily enough the brass beast is amazing on that one map where you turn giant and run to the enemy base with the bomb. The speed decrease doesn't matter when you're that big, you kill most classes from across the map in like a second, you melt the other giant and with more health you get your defense boost faster and longer
I love the liberty launcher when used with the rest of its set. You have an extra rocket for jumping around and popping people into the air to desl the real damage (with your mini crit boosted reserve shooter)
Used to use the liberty launcher a ton when I was a little baby man but ever since I tried “challenging” myself by using only stock weapons I haven’t switched from stock since
When i first started to play as heavy i used brass beast and nothing else and didn't even touched the other miniguns and to this day i still used it and i dont even know why
Liberty launcher + gunboats + market gardener is a pretty good combo that allows for a lot of mobility and reduced fall damage while still dealing decent damage and being able to kill beefier targets with the market gardener. Definitely a different and fun way to play soldier :)
I feel like to help encourage headshots with the sleeper you could have the jarate effect be able to go to enemies near the target as well as the target itself
Im not a heavy main but I love using the brass beast on defense or payload attack I usually use it with the family business or the chocolate bar kinda funny cuz I main engi Im basically becaming a sentry
I think the optimal way to run the Liberty Launcher would be to equip it along with the banner of your choice and the Disciplinary Action, turning Soldier into a support class. Hang out in the backline, near the Medic or the Engineer and spam rockets, making use of the reduced self damage to rocket jump away from threats, focusing primarily on filling your banner meter and staying alive long enough to make optimal use of your banner, while giving teammates headed for the front a helpful whip for speed boost.
It's trash, optimal way to run liberty launcher is not to use liberty launcher.
If you're good with meatshots, alternating one rocket and one panic attack results in burst damage capable of oneshotting medic if you launch a rocket then shoot him with panic attack right as rocket hits, then you switch back to liberty launcher and repeat the process, this works because projectile is fast and they don't expect you to use a shotgun like ever. This isn't as good with stock because you completely give up self damage reductions as opposed to stock + gunboarts or liberty launcher + shotgun, meaning you will have less health, and health is more important than doing 150+ damage per rocket + shotgun shell.
Still, in the end it's only fun but completely useless, it's better to bomb medic with 2 rockets and get out.
Been waiting for this! (:
The Liberty Launcher is good for combo Soldier, so paired with either the Reserve Shooter or Panic Attack by taking advantage of the lowered damage to you so you can get point blank and blast their face off.
But ya, it can get you into bad habits.
You should have put the classic on the list because when I was starting out on sniper I didn’t realize it was bad until someone pointed that out but at least it had funny explosions when a headshot hits
17:38 "Airblast is Pyro's most important tool"
but...
2007: Flamethrower doesn't airblast
2008: Backburner doesn't airblast
2011: Phlog doesn't airblast
There has always been a flamethrower that can only burn enemies
It's not a mistake
Burning enemies is the core design of Pyro
Consequently, flames are Pyro's most important tool
Watch some high level Highlander VODs
I see remarkably few uses of airblast that accomplish anything
While I find it silly that Phlog charges off secondary weapons,
Phlog is just a tweaked 2007 flamethrower (guaranteed rather than random crits)
Consequently it's the BEST flamethrower to start with
I encourage new Pyros to use Phlog+Shotgun and learn vanilla Pyro
(ie the fundamentals: positioning, timing, game-sense, what fights you can take, stay alive for the critical moment)
before worrying about airblast, flare combos and so on
How much training do you need to right click on a burning teammate?
16:39 You ruined a push on upward last with a press of the button G
(plus building up the meter and taking an uber yourself)
While you can ruin an uber push by just right clicking
So how much more skillful is airblast really?
Reflecting projectiles sometimes requires much skill
However, I think reflect is the most overhyped feature of the airblast
I often see Pyros on the front lines trying to reflect demo spam and achieving little
That same Pyro would usually be more effective spychecking, denying health/ammo pickups on the flanks, or spamming himself
You accuse the Phlog of promoting bad habits but you seem blind to the bad habits promoted by airblast
Other bad airblast habits:
airblasting enemies that would just die to W+M1
"predictive" reflects that become predictable and get you killed
fishing for reflect in a mid-range fight when your secondary would be more effective
One thing to note about Brass Beast:
It is the only heavy primary that has synergies with the shotguns on a core gameplay level…
Spies? Snipers? Scouts? You can pull out a consistent weapon that deals 80/90 damage point blank, much more akin to 2007 heavy play-style.
Too slow with the shotgun? Pull out The Eviction Notice, land one hit, and you gain additional speed boost to go with your shotgun.
And finally, when it is time to solidify one team’s position on the map, you can rev-up Brass Beast around the cover, or better, use high-ground to drop down on the enemy team, negating the speed penalty, because air strafing has no penalty.
When you drop into the fight with heavy’s most important game sense of *TIMING* and *POSITIONING* , it always feels like a titan falling from the sky, shredding through opposition.
You become the King piece of the action, anyone that dares challenge you in your dominion, without preparation, will get out-damaged.
For Brass Beast Heavy, He can only be defeated by another Brass Beast Heavy, or overwhelming pressure.
TF2 players got so mentally and physically insane that they hoaxed a nonexistant character into existance
it's like graggle simspon or goncharov. it's really fun tbh
Interesting thing to note with the brass beast, it's actually viable in 6s due to the damage resistance making breaking last holds considerably harder, since you're only really switching to heavy on last in 5cp. However, it's worth noting that sometimes a player will swap to heavy when pushing *into* for the extra DPS, and in those instances they almost always go stock.
I’m in the low Sniper skill level where using the Sydney Sleeper as a crutch seems really enticing. My aim is so jittery that the bodyshots are hard for me to hit, let alone headshots. And yet I don’t currently run it, choosing stock instead, out of some vain hope of improving. Which has borne no fruit.
Forget the Sleeper crutch, my answer seems to be to just not play Sniper.
Same with Spy, and the C&D is another crutch I used before eventually switching to stick to improve. Only in that case I do feel like that swap to stock made a difference; just a shame that does f$&@ all for the rest of my nonexistent spy skill.
I like the Sydney conceptually, but I kinda wish they kept the jarate explosion on headshot thing. I like the idea of a backline support option that hits a group of people instead of a single shot "this one person is dead" weapon.
If you were using the stock they would be just as dead (if not more dead) after your it them with a fully charged headshots, so it just Kinda... falls flat, especially when the bazaar bargain and hitmans heatmaker fill basically the same niche
Lower your sens, SS also works better if you can get headshots because the extra minicrit damage makes it easier to your team to secure the kill.
I actually love using the brass beast even after a couple thousand hours in the game. While im not the most competitive player (I for some reason main hoovy) I like the gun because it really emphasizes the strenghts and weaknesses of Heavy as a whole
I usually use the liberty launcher as a more forgiving rocket jumper when playing trolldier (if you use the gunboats)
As a Sniper main, I view the Sydney Sleeper more as a sidegrade rather than downgrade to Stock.
You can still one-shot up to a Soldier in a single shot since the headshots with this rifle deal mini-crit damage and so a full-charge headshot deal 203 damage. The only class you can no longer one-shot are Heavies.
I know this sounds like a bad downside considering Snipers are meant to be a counter to Heavies... however people forget that Heavies already several tool to make themselves survive (and even thrive) against Snipers : the Fist-of-Steel, Natasha and Brass Beast with full overheal, an Uber or just simply moving extremly unpredictably while crouch-spamming.
Furthermore, I've noticed that Jarate Heavies tend to retreat almost always, especially when you dealt 203 damage to them and their HP now sits at 97 hp (or 243 if overhealed) so easily one-shotable (or two-shotable with overheal) to both Demos and Soldiers, meaning it still performs the Sniper's job of denying a Heavy push just fine.
The 25% faster charge rate means you're gonna output full-charge shots in about 0.5s less wait than stock (3.3s for stock, 2.8s) meaning you'll output full-charges much more often.
But the kicker is that Jarate makes EVERY players on your team a mini-sniper : minicrit remove damage falloff.
So you trade some of your firepower to GREATLY increase your team's firepower. Fair trade if you ask me.
Also, being able to extinguish teammates at any ragen with consuming a cooldown is nice upside too.
i like the cloak and dagger. i find it more reliable to always be able to cloak when i need to rather than to run out and be left in a pickle. the downside of the weapon being the need for patience is actually a good learning tool for players if they use the tool correctly.
i feel like the cloak and dagger rewards tricky movement when trying to run from enemies. if i have enough space to move around i'm usually able to escape the enemy pretty well. the few times it doesnt work is because of unlucky positioning, not having enough space to escape [being sandwiched in between enemies or a wall], or someone being a cheater that can see me being cloaked, deliberately trying to bump me in the most suspicious "i can see you cause wallhacks" way just so he can justify killing me. or skip all that fidgeting and just have a bot kill me on sight.
i know the tool well enough to know how people respond to bumping into a spy, or chasing a spy who has just cloaked. they shoot around frantically, moving in a single direction, or they stand still and shoot frantically trying to locate me using their bullets... someone doesnt just stand completely still without firing, look in my direction and then walk forward to bump and immediately shoot me.
YES I AM TALKING ABOUT A CHEATER and yes i can confirm they cheat. 2.7 hours in tf2, 20 hours total, 1 vac ban on record. only has 2 games. top scoring as scout. and he shot me before when he was running past in a direction that did not align with where i was standing at all. anyone that has a vac ban, only has 2.7 hours on tf2 and is top scoring in a match has to be a cheater.
coincidences? i think NOT!!!!!
OH SHIT, HERITAGE FOR THE FUTURE INTRO, nice to see a video from ya teal! been a while
The brass beast goes hard if you position yourself well and i run it with the shotgun, it also goes hard in heavy vs heavy like u said
The brass beast is kinda like how the gunslinger is on engineer, the gunslinger makes engi more offensive while the brass beast makes heavy more oriented play style
Id go so far as to say the sydney sleeper is a more well designed and interesting weapon that actually makes sniper a SUPPORT class based around lining up and timing shots to maximise the rests of your TEAM's abilities instead of being Just Instant Kill Them: The Weapon. Because tbh with stock sniper is probably the least team-oriented character in TEAM fortress 2
11:36 the Tetris music came in so hard I almost died
I moved my mouse to skip an ad when the Liberty Mutual jingle played
I'm only part way through on this video, but my god as a Heavy main myself I agree 200% with the take of the Brass Beast.
To me in short terms, while it can work if you use it as you described to use it. For normal use? It can't do anything that any other miniguns can't do, and is stuck with the downside of larping as a sentry.
I have a unhealthy addiction to underated channels
I used to be a liberty launcher/batallions backup player when I first started. The splash was amazing for me who wasnt able to hit directs. Then I switched to black box, and I ocasionally play direct hit ever since my aim got better
I remembered using the Pomson as Engineer when I was starting out.
Quickly realized my mistake when I realized I was doing literally nothing.
these weapons are probably also useful for players who don't actively main the respective classes, but have to switch class to fill an empty role in their team.
if a player has to switch to one of these classes but is not proficient with their playstyle, they can contribute more to their team than if they use the regular weapons badly.
for example, a heavy main has to switch to sniper, so they equip the Sydney sleeper.
the cloak and dagger is good i swear
My hot Phlog take is "Damn, I remember when the Phlog didn't exist and its downside was exclusively on the Backburner instead, so all of the negative press the Phlog Pyros get used to be doled out to Backburner Pyros instead," and it's always been wild to me that Backburner Pyros can airblast. Going back to tf2 a few years ago really threw me for several loops.
Bigger problem for new players is not being aware that you can use mastercomfig to fix performance issues and not knowing obscure (yes I just said it) binds such as class switch (I use numpad for this) and class loadout switch (I use F1-F4 for this), and most important of all, 1-4 over qwerty for sentry's buildings, which get automatically destroyed if already built, I don't have to manually destroy anything, only decide to build something and game takes care of the rest, for the rare case where I intend to destroy my teleporter that is being camped, I can just decide to "rebuild" my teleporter then cancel it.
The amount of engineers that don't know to switch to eureka effect, place teleporter then switch back in spawn to jag to upgrade the teleporter x2 faster is insane, almost as insane as the fact that I see players burn to death in spawn while running to locker when they could just hit F1 or whatever loadout they were using to instantly respawn with full health. Even getting metal back to 200 is faster with F1 than running back to locker and I abuse this as engineer, honestly it's almost impossible to play engineer without abusing this, I do extremely fast setups on offense when on attack/defense maps by placing my half cost teleporter, a sentry, hitting F1 to get back to jag with 200 metal, upgrading sentry, F1 again to reset metal and then carry the sentry to frontline.
If I'm not the only engineer, the other engineer has 99.97% chance to be building level 1 sentry on frontline just for spy to leftclick on it with his gun (to be fair, a scout could do same thing, sentries start out at very low hp when placed) and immediately remove 130 metal from the game just like that while my lv2 sentry will kill one or two people, while being constant area denial it was made to be, by the time I built my dispenser too, another engineer is STILL looking for metal to attempt to rebuild his lv1 sentry again... It's just mindboggling how people can play like this.
Oh yeah and same, frankly, stupid people will certainly come to steal metal from my dispenser because their stupidity leads to them wasting metal and they cannot exist without wasting my metal too...
Most games that I am playing engineer, I spend more time helping other engineers setup their stuff than I spend on my own, because when you do it right, it's so fast, that it's not surprising why most people have deep hatred for turtling 4-6 engineers on defense, any uber that destroys over half of their stuff will be rebuilt before another uber can happen, but at the same time, luckily, one team never has 4 engineers who know what they're doing.
Also I think brass beast isn't a bad weapon, it's extremely good in MvM and by extension very good for defense. Slower rev time isn't a problem at all, I see gibus heavies permarev with tomislav... Your comparison segment of whether stock or brass beast looks more fun... Obviously stock, but for me it has to do with the fact that I prefer offense, I prefer proactive play more than defensive play, on defense maps, making a proactive play is hard, you can only push so far before you end up in enemy spawn with noone to back you up because objective is most important part of the game and defending team is always tied to objective while attacking team can be anywhere on the map freely because they don't have constraints like that, they can even afford wasting time flanking because they respawn twice as fast, dying on stupid flank as defender means you won't be here to defend objective for 20 seconds, dying on stupid flank as attacker is no biggie, you have about 50 more tries before overtime.
For example, dustbowl, if you push too far, enemy spy can backcap 2nd point, if you can't push more than heavy's range worth anyway due to this risk, you may aswell sit with brass beast to kill the spy and everyone else 25% faster.
Everything you criticise about brass beast can be deflected as criticism of being the defending team on any attack/defense map, because yes, you're quite literally waiting for enemy to come to you to the objective, if you aren't on objective as heavy when enemy is capturing it, you're being useless.
Also yes, on defense there's so much spam, that brass beast both kills enemies faster and helps you die less, brass beast is direct upgrade on some maps, for example dustbowl, heavy's gameplay on dustbowl is holding M1 at a chokepoint and hoping that no crit sticky will pop below your feet, not even tomislav heavy can dodge a crit sticky.
Also, brass beast downsides never infuriated me more than the medic in your video who let you get knocked back by the sentry instead of rushing in forward, for some reason medics are so dumb they don't know about the fact that medic is second fastest class in the game and therefore should ALWAYS tank the sentry during uber.
Something in weapon discussion videos I dont think gets brought up enough is that it is perfectly okay to switch weapons midgame to shift your playstyle and goal.
If you're defending last against hard pushes and the enemy team doesn't have snipers, brass beast can be quite solid as it can do more damage against a push than tommy or stock if you use it right, especially if you're by a dispenser.
Part of being good at TF2 is recognizing when certain loadouts might be favorable in certain situations.
I actually think the Brass Beast is a fantastic weapon, it's just situational. It really shines in tight maps where sniper is weak and escape routes are common, so it's much more important to dish out as much damage as possible as fast as you can to get the best chance of killing the enemy before they can get away. Since one of the biggest jobs of Heavy is zones of control at close to mid range, a weapon that maximizes his efficacy at it is pretty reliably a good choice whenever you're in a situation that makes that the top priority.
The brass beast drops Heavy's skill ceiling so low he doesn't even have room to jump - literally, as it takes away his jump revving potential - while simultaneously raising the floor slightly by making him so much more punishable to things bad Heavies do such as poor positioning. The design of the weapon forces Heavy into such a narrow range of play expression that it's hard to enjoy playing or even do do effectively due to how things change so much through a match.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:34 The Liberty Launcher
07:28 The Brass Beast
14:39 The Phlogistinator
20:10 The Sydney Sleeper
26:28 The Cloak And Dagger
30:29 Final Verdict
Breathe, brother.
I love the Liberty Launcher since it’s got very unique upsides and trades losses in some matchups for much better matchups that Stock can often lose
The high speed of the rockets lets you chase down medics and scouts while also throwing timing off for pyros
However you notice worse matchups with anything having higher health
It’s a fun weapon and a fair trade IMO, it just requires a different mindset… it’s just much less obvious than Demoknight
I play both Stock and LL and find they’re comparable enough that bouncing between the two can throw off any Pyros and Scouts that might be harassing you
In the Phlogs defence it made my flair aim insane
28:43 That poor Scout X_x.
29:42 This Scout too.
this might be my personal bias but i feel like the bazar bargain is in a similar situation, it installs so much fear into you about loosing your kill streak, you never try to push objectives because once you die your instantly worse than stock. snipers goal is picking off medics, and enemy defenders, but you don’t see those enemies much when your in the back line far away from the fight because your scared of a scout flanking you and then dying . it’s bonus appears to be perfect for sniper due to faster charge= more heads, but to get to that point you essentially have to fight from spawn instead of supporting your teams frontline
I like to use the cloak and dagger to troll engineers on ctf
To me the Sydney sleeper have one BIS moment, and it's when you have a killstreak/ stat trak SMG
I would like to throw another positive onto the Brass Beast. You are almost guaranteed to win Heavy duels. I've taken down Heavies that had continual Medic support during our fight because they had Stock or Tomislav while I had my beasty boi and a Dalokohs bar increasing my Max HP, which also increases the threshold of the Beast's damage reduction. When using the BB offensively, I'm pretty vulnerable to Spy, because I'll stop just before a corner to eat my chocolate bar before jumping around the corner revving my gun.
If you’re struggling to get picks with the liberty launcher, you must equip the reserve shooter and market gardener.
This post was made by Liberty Gang
The Sydney Sleeper works a littler better conceptually because Sniper is not a front-line class. That being said, the cases where it is most useful are fringe, since you'd have to be in a push with your team against tough human targets, not have enough time to charge a full stock headshot, and not have the jarate equipped.
Used to play liberty launcher. Used the splash radius and speed as a crutch to compensate for my 300-700 ms ping. Swapped to stock after 4 months. Been 5 years, never looked back once.
I thought the dead ringer would be in this video, was not expecting the cloak and dagger
Yeah when I first got the brass beast, it’s all I used. I saw it as a direct positive but it really turned my play style into being a level 2 sentry, nesting up next to an engi and his dispenser but that’s it… one thing I wish I could take back about this game was picking that gun up at first
I never even really saw Heavy as an offensive class because of this… I always thought he was just a defensive tank
one time during my F2p days i got a brass beast and decided to use it since it was something other than stock and to this day i use it no matter what and i dont even know why
Based
I wouldn’t say I’m a new player to TF2 anymore, I’ve been playing it for a few months now and that’s after having watched content on UA-cam about it for like 5 years, but back when I was first starting out I got 3 unlocks for Spy that, although I know they’re horrible at worst and just okay at best, I still use them often when I play as Spy
Those unlocks being the Spycicle, the Enforcer, and Your eternal reward
Why do I use them? Well, same reason I use the pompson on Engineer and the Classic on Sniper
I barely play those classes anyway, so I might as well be as memey and horrible as possible when I do
…………
Classic ain’t that bad though
I find this video pretty amusing considering I actually do use 2 sometimes 3 of these weapons fairly consistently (at least when I play those classes). I know they are not optimal but the liberty launcher just became a solid pick for me after I realized that every single match has at least 2 soldiers so I can focus on chip against whole teams rather than frags, and the cloak and dagger is really good IF you use comms or for essentially guaranteeing the medic never gets uber so long as you are willing to be essentially afk for half the match. Obviously neither is the ideal way to play the class, but considering if I really care about winning I find myself on scout or medic, having my off class picks being less than optimal is just kinda fun. Also brass beast is amazing because big number is good
Imo the problem with the cloak and dagger is that invis is used in much the same way as a movement ability, like rocket jumping or scout sprinting and double jumping. You use invis to get into position for a kill, spending no more time than necessary invisible because you're not getting value by staying invis. Once you have got into position, you decloak as soon as you can and go straight for a kill.
This is a team based first person shooter that is really quite fast paced, this isn't a stealth game. The more time you spend invisible, the less value you're getting for your team, and there's really just not very much use for a watch that allows you to hide in a corner waiting for prey. Sure you might get a big pick on a medic but if you had the stock invis or **that** watch, you could have killed the entire team in a chainstab.
The problem with the c&d is the same problem with most unlocks that aren't as good as stock - they lack consistency and flexibility. Most stock weapons are great in almost every situation, allowing you to get consistent value the entire time you're using them. Sure other weapons like the c&d might be better in some situations but 9 times out of 10, you're going to be able to do the exact same thing with stock but without the annoying restrictions.
Doing an aggressive sydney-smg loadout is kinda fun
I'm a heavy who runs brass beast almost full time. Course that is also because I like my shotgun more than I like my sandvich. I have no problem switching out to other miniguns when they are nessary but I just enjoy being that lumbering tank and just watching the enemy team scatter behind a corner as I slowly creep around a corner and ther is nothing they can do.
Great content!
I would argue that the dead ringer is such a worse item for learning spy, because of the get out of jail free nature of it that taught me so many terrible habits I had to unlearn.
You must be playing against braindead players if you think that dead ringer is get out of jail for free card.
Pyro can hear louder flame noise while tickling your anus in dead ringer cloak and chase you down because speed boost doesn't last forever.
The brass beast just makes heavy a level 2 sentry
That does more damage than actual level 2 sentry even when wrangled.
with the liberty launcher, i find the best way to play is it basically like a roaming trollider just with the ability to damage. using gunboats and market you take so little self damage and having 5 rockets you are super mobile and are still really good at killing low health classes when you bomb and can just go for gardens frequently to take out still majority of classes in one shot. if on an open map to have space to jump around, its a decent sidegrade, if you play into it. trying to be a medic pocket solider type you are just a downgrade to stock then.
I'd argue the Machina is one too, since the increased bodyshot damage doesn’t force headshotting as much amd the required scoping doesn’t help with awareness/quickscoping (doubled with the tracers revealing your position)
bodyshot damage on machina doesn't do anything special though, still can't oneshot demoman without headshot.
I disagree with the Brass beast. The rev-up penalty actually means that positioning is more important, and more difficult, especially on attack. So to get the best position, you have to take risks getting there (which actually usually makes it better to have a shotgun secondary instead of a lunchbox). It generally changes the way you think about playing heavy, and your role. You become more of a crowd control class, in the sense that you stop pushes, and lock down areas, or in offensive team plays, you either become the reason why the attack is unrelenting (by not being the foremost man on the frontline, but instead the slowly advancing point behind which ground gained is a no-go for the enemy, but a retreat to safety, without being out of the fight fully for your team), or you become a second line of attack on your own, especially by doing a scout like flank, or just coming from a different direction, with maybe a med or another power class, and not being the real people push, but making sure the enemy is always in crossfire, as long as they hold the objective.
Also as a bonus, you win any heavy on heavy 1v1s where it's somewhat equal to start with, unless you are at considerable range, and the other guy has a tommyslav
Once I realised this, the brass beast became my favourite minigun, although I still rarely use it on some types of maps, due to the changes in what routes people take, and the positions of the objective. For example payload maps generally have only one or two places where a brass beast heavy is in his element, Koth maps are basically 50/50, etc. Control points and attack/defense maps tend to be the best for a brass beast heavy, I've found.
Basically with the brass beast you have to either lean in to the tank=impassable wall, or into very aggressive initial positioning, but not necessarily feeling the need to chase people down, a few kills and some retreats, but position fully secured is better for you than many kills, but the enemy is likely to push back here in the next 30-40 seconds.
Basically there's a time and a place for a brass beast heavy, it's just that most people think these times and places are somewhere else than they really are.
Surprised you didn’t mention the Black Box (specifically when paired with Concheror). I don’t really see it as a crutch. Well, in a traditional sense that is. I see it as Medic with a rocket launcher. You probably won’t be killing much, and you’ll be a sitting duck without your shotgun. I see it as a handicap to play worse unless you’re using the shotgun with it.
the combination is super effective xd
I use it if I want more survivability for more banner deploys (not the Concheror though).
I think if the Sydney Sleeper always applied full jarate on a headshot no matter how much charge you had, it would be a much better weapon.
Liberty Launcher, for the trolldier that still want blast damage.
Or just want to compleat the Airborn Arsenal set loadout.
Phlog, ten years on and I still can't get the meter built to use later. Want to continue being able to extinguish teammates.
Dosn't stop the good phlog pyro appearing from the flanks to burn down the team. Happens ridiculusly often too on Upward and Frontier on the community servet I play on.
Sydney Sleeper, a decade later, I still prefer hardscoping, part of why I am nowdays using Machina and Cozy Camper. I like not missing due to the flinching, I like the hit for prenetrations, and the camper helps minimize the annoying clientside occurance of multiple travers from a single shot.
From time to time, I do go to either stock or Bazar just to force myself to not hardscope all the time.
Cloak and Dagger, Letrange, Your Eternal Reward, my go to spy loadout. Keeping your actions out of the feed just feels exiting to me.
Though, I got to watch my use of voicechat on the community server I play on, all talk, so the speach bubble shows up for them while cloaked. Though, hearing others reactions to battles, or just random discussions feels good, team talk is nice, but it gets lonely.
Glad that I can atleast use it unlike the Ringer. The playstyle that requiers isn't for me. The most I get out of it is to help people grind the pumpkin contracts, or fake the death of a teammate sniper in the duel to buy them time.
Im surprised you didnt mention the loch-n-load
Honestly I think the liberty launcher is really fun with gun boats. Everyone says it pairs well with either the mini crit banner or shotgun and it kinda does. My issue with doing that is thats just trying to cover its weaknesses which in ways works but you're not playing into the strengths of the weapon. I honestly like running it with gunboats. You're not that threatening to many of the classes like heavies, demos, soldiers, and pyros when you do this. However your damage threshholds still can techincally reach 2 tapping 125 classes and possibly even medics if I recall if you're close enough for ramp up to take effect. Granted the airstrike also kinda fills a similar niche and imo its a much better weapon both due to the more versitile design and how it has so many specific quirks that gives it unique abilities if you learn how to actually utilize it. Even then though the lower explosion radius, higher self damage vs the liberty, and the fact you do still have to earn your extra rocket clip imo makes the liberty still occupy this sort of niche without being completely useless compared to the airstrike.
What the liberty launcher gunboats combo does is turn soldier into a low health dive bombing character that can arguably get out of situations almost as well as a scout while giving up actually decent damage in return. The gunboats and liberty launcher together means you're maybe doing like 12-15 damage at most a jump usually and the extra rocket lets you usually have an extra way to get out of jail free. You run it if you want to just dive bomb really weak classes and easily run away even while sustaining damage, because you take so little damage from jumping that you can honestly even use it at really low health and still be safe as long as you dont take fall damage. You're going to STRUGGLE against classes with more than 150 health but you honestly can just be kind of annoying for anyone playing a low health class since they just cant punish you that easily if their team doesnt help focus you due to how often you can just run away at a moments notice.
The faster rockets and lower damage also in a weird way make it harder for pyros to punish you. Its very bad against pyros imo due to the pitiful damage and because you'd have to get into their range to really do anything other than a sneeze to them, but that also means when they reflect it, assuming the faster speed doesnt affect their timing since thats a thing that trips up a surprising amount of pyros, you're not probably going to die from it neither and you're kinda able to escape them rather easily due to their range problem.
its kind of weak and its in a very specific niche but honestly its SUPER fun on maps like land fall or double cross or a lot of more open maps like earlier parts of most payload maps. Do NOT play this combo in more cramped maps and areas. From what Ive played with it, this loadout ironically does not like to be in areas of combat that soldier often excells at (like cramped hallways that allow for large amounts of splash damage) when hes not roaming due to its low damage and high movement focus. It also isnt good against sentries, the loadout is in fact REALLY bad against them. You're also much weaker on attack defend maps because of sentries, heavies, and indoor choke points usually too. Its very bad for spam too since its so pitiful damage wise. You're basically an airborn flank with 200 health that doesnt do much self damage for their movement but has mediocre damage and often has to run away after going for a pick.
I remember when I first started one of the first weapons I ever got was the eternal reward. I thought for so long that the disguise kit was something I had to unlock/find. I was watching a UA-camr I like one day and found out that was not the case.
But for months the spy was ruined for me
The problem with Brass Beast is the double negative, does it really need to have a slower rev to balanced? Also you should be using a shotgun with it to make up for the mobility and practicality weakness if your going to use it all the time. Only useful for last stands on defense or Frontier cart riders that have insane amount of heals being pump into them, the only actual good uses i've gotten out of it.
I like making Sydney Sleeper X Bushwaka combo.
When i stated i was Thinking Baby face blaster is the best scout wepon so i youse it to this day i wil stay with the think that baby face blaster is the *best* Scout wepon
great content, used to play the shit out of tf2 in 2014, good to see fresh stuff for this game