An oddly high number of people seem to be confused as to why airblast wasn't included with the Pyro's abilities. And that's just cause it isn't an ability of the TF2 Pyro. It's an ability of the TF2 Flamethrower. Something like afterburn immunity is an innate attribute of the Pyro but airblast is tied directly to 1 weapon which was why it was covered in the flamethrower segment and not abilities.
@@GallusCorvus Grenades and the Incendiary Canon are also TFC only features. Like I said in the begining of the vid, this series is primarily about comparing the 2 games. Bunnyhopping is an important ability in TFC and should be shown. But also when it comes to the hypothetical 1v1 being able to pick the best of dozens of unlocks for the matchup is a massive advantage. It kind of invalidates the reasoning for a 1v1 to exist. Sticking to default options is the only way to have a consistent standard of fairness and by default TFC classes can bhop. (Plus let's be real, TFC has extremely lackluster weapons so it kinda needs an edge somewhere.)
I've never realized, but all the tfc team had to do to win is to say "excuse me, I'm in need of some medical attention," then the tfc medic will rush out of the retietirement home and not heal, but poison the tf2 team because it's too hard to heal in that game.
I recall somewhere that the TFC Pyro was made with the design of basically kamikazeing the enemy team. The Pyro would die in the attack, but afterburn would claim the enemy team at the same time That philosophy seems to have carried over to TF2 as well
Let’s remember that the developers of the original Team Fortress themselves stated pyro was effectively cannon fodder. His role was to be the first line of defense and Inevitably die just to weaken the enemies for the rest of your team to clean up
It's weird that you didn't point out that in a fight with grenades tfc pyro could heavily loose due to the fact that tf2 pyro can just deflect a grenade and it could destroy tfc armor due to the mini crits
I did though. A few times! But realistically the TFC Pyro isn't going to be spamming projectiles in the face of the TF2 Pyro in the same way Soldier and Demos ideally avoid it in TF2. Assuming these are hypothetically 2 players who both know what they're doing. I'd view it more as a deterent rather than a consistent form of damage for TF2.
@@RedShocktrooperRSToh definitely That thing chews through a Heavy and it will ignore the afterburn immunity. TF2 pyro needs to bunny hop constantly to avoid getting hit by it and needs to bait out an airblast to have a chance at winning.
I guess it would be a lot easier to mod in the weapons as opposed to trying to recreate the entire TFC class in TF2 since implementing armor and especially bunny hopping I expect would be very difficult. Also from what we have seen so far, it looks like a lot of weapons wouldn’t be very viable in TF2 but they would be neat to see nonetheless
In TF2 for some weird reason, Pyro is the only class to reliably gain speed from simply doing the motions of bhopping. You don't really need to do it all that well, you still gain a lot of speed, especially with the Powerjack.
Pyro’s original purpose for tfQuake was to be a low skill floor, low maximum output class. It was made for people with bad connection or who didn’t have enough free time to get really good at the other classes. Robin Walker’s original description of the pyro stated that it would probably die in most 1v1 situations, but would provide enough damage to still benefit the team. So even if you can’t dominate a server or carry your team, you can still be helpful. Tf2’s pyro serves a similar purpose, with a very low skill floor that provides new players a way to learn the mechanics while still helping their team and getting kills here and there, but unlike the tfc pyro it also has a very high skill ceiling. I think literally any of Sketchek’s pyro videos are enough to prove just how powerful a skilled pyro can be. Airblast and the ability to combo with secondaries and melee make tf2 pyro a much more versatile class in the hands of an experienced player.
even by the standards of tfc, the tfc pyro is a janky mess. the pyro for the original tf was basically designed for people with bad connections to still be able to contribute, rather than actually be good at the game
I'd like to imagine that the TFC Pyro's voice sounding like that could be explained as her maybe having smoked a lot of cigars to where it gave her a deeper and rougher voice like real people can have happen to them if they smoke a lot over their life.
Dont forget that in TFC pyro used the same ammo (cells) as the engineer used to build, wich means that pyro was the only class unable to help engineers obtain materials for their buildings. It wasnt easy being a Pybro.
don’t forget enemy engineer’s EMP grenades. both rockets and cells which you can’t discard cause you to explode instantly if you are hit by one of those.
strange, because the tfc pyro was specifically intended to be a low-skill-floor class that was good at helping out the team for people who weren't good enough to topfrag
He could still be helping by distracting and blinding enemies long enough for them to mess up. (And obviously spycheck) But his damage was too low for a good defense and speed was too low for a good offense. I guess when valve decided to give him crits everywhere in TF2 they really overcompensated fearing any class being useless, even though the TF2 pyro is extremely versetile and usefull even if he would have low damage output, with tools for mobility, unzapping, sniper hickups, sticky clearing and of course airblast.
If one class has a clear movement advantage your response shouldn't be "Well it doesn't matter because if pyro gets close enough to the enemy he wins easily". Its the same idea behind the buffalo steak sandwich and I don't think I need to explain why that doesn't work out
@@helloworld4990 that's a case by case and works for both, what's the point of having a movement speed advantage if you need to get close to the enemie that can shut down your movement and aim or in heavy's case, kill you.
@@thelastmlg2699 ? I don't think you understood what I said... the tfc pyro is a slightly tankier class with better mobility and lower damage. You can't disregard a major part of their skillset because of a situational ability that doesn't counter it in the slightest. Overall the tf2 pyro is a better designed class that doesn't mean completely disregarding things in an effort to prove what we already know (tf2 is a better game than tfc)
@@helloworld4990 i don't see why we can't disregard it if airblast does indeed counter most applications of their mobility, especially when you consider that grenade jumping damages TFC pyro and B-hopping shouldn't even be considered as it is a exploit rather than a mechanic, and even then, what good is his mobility if he is forced to be upclose to the pyro, thus subject to airblast? Yes, we can disregard a major part of their skillset if tf2 pyro has a way to counter + it barely mattering for their combat style. At this point, considering it an advantage is arbitrary, this is like having someone who's strong and skilled beat someone who's very fast because "they got two advantages" when speed counters both, it is simple not the purpose of the video which the OP pointed out
@@thelastmlg2699 It's laughable to disregard a core game mechanic as an exploit. Bhopping has been a part of the goldsrc engine since HL1 the developers of the game made it with bhopping in mind and can be considered intended behaviour. If you didn't know that basic fact then I have absolutely 0 confidence in you knowledge of anything relating to valve. Secondly you say that bhopping only applies to skilled players yet so does popping someone in the air with airblast? You are hypocritical in your arguments. Tf2s pyro clearly has the close range advantage but there are many things in the tfc pyros arsenal that points to it being better in the medium range category having the mobility to stay far out of range of the tf2 pyro and projectiles effective even against the most skilled airblaster. In addition to this the effective health of the tfc pyro is significantly higher and the tf2 pyro suffers much more from the loss of afterburn as TFCs afterburn is absolute trash. Overall both pyros have useful abilities and attributes that in a stock battle isn't as simple as just "pop them in the air" it could easily go either way
I can tell you first hand that pyro was perhaps the least played class in TFC, and was considered a very garbage class because it just didn't do a lot of damage or get a lot of kills, and was awkward to use. While pyro is considered the "noob class" of TF2, Heavy took that spot in TFC. Pyro was really hard to utilize effectively.
Virgin TFC Pyro -Relatively weak projectiles -Trying her best to fight and cant beat TF2 Pyro -Needs to Bhop to compensate and didn't win Chad TF2 Pyro -Unaware of his actions and is a menace to the gameplay -More consistent and superior damage -Doesn't need advanced skills to kill
I think something else to mention in this discussion is just how much airblast counters mobility. Sure, bunnyhopping allows TFC Pyro to basically play as a Scout, but think of how often a decent TF2 Pyro shuts down the mobility of a Demoknight, Trolldier, or even Scout in enclosed spaces. And if you consider how much TFC Pyro is similar to Heavy (high health, high point-blank damage, minimal spread), the tactic of pinning your enemy in a corner and throwing off their aim just becomes that much more viable.
I'm a little confused here: Bunny hopping was considered a unique ability for TFC, but air blast wasn't considered for TF2? I realize that one of the flamethrowers can't air blast, but seeing as unlocks aren't the main focus of the video, it seems strange that it wasn't mentioned in that section of the video as a unique power as that's exactly what it is. Amazing video tho, love the content! Keep it up, these are super entertaining to watch!
Airblast was included with the flamethrower because it's specifically only on that weapon. Where afterburn immunity and bunnyhopping are innate abilities able to be active at all times. And thank you!
tbh, since TF2 Pyro has the phsyce of a 6 year old, and TFC Pyro is an old woman. I can honestly see both Pyros acting as a wholesome Grandmother and her grandson
You mentioned that the TFC Cannon did a little as 20 damage, then you mentioned that splash damage does 20, the game might have simply though it splash damage when it wasn't
The close range time to kill of the flamethrower might not be accurate, there's a quirk with the flamethrower where the oldest flame in contact with a target is used to calculate damage falloff (which is time based and not distance traveled based) so burning a target in front of a wall, which will stop the old flames from moving past the target, will result in longer kill times. Also the pyro has damage ramp up as well, which takes about 1 second and doubles his damage output if he has consistently kept flames touching a target, so the low health numbers don't necessarily reflect the actual damage output capabilities of the pyro.
Incendiary cannon also can ignite players behind the walls. Combined with screen being blocked by fire (yes, it ACTUALLY significantly affects the game) this weapon is the best for spamming into walls, spy checking and annoying snipers. That's basically is even more broken scorch shot, and i really think TFC should have win this round.
@@HB-fq9nn yeah, he can, yet it have kind of a "fire shotgun" style of application in the close quarters combat because of horrifyingly big splash radius and a very fast firing speed. It requires some skill and knowledge, but that's the most powerful TFC pyro weapon if it used right.
There's a glitch with damage rampup on the flamethrower in tf2 where it calculated damage with old particles. The effect is that a foe against a wall doesnt take optimal rampup at point blank. You should have tested it in an open space.
everything went downhill for the TFC pyro when they unveiled her gender meanwhile our current chad/chadette pyro is obnoxiously strong and still ambiguous as ever
To be honest? Bad as the TFC Pyro was, it would be cool to see them do TF2 cosmetics based on the outfit for the modern Pyro, much like what Heavy and Medic have. Something like the mask, flak jacket and camo suit as three pieces could work well!
I was an avid TFC player, and I kinda liked the pyro, but I considered them more like a support class. You never deal really good damage, but I think you severely underestimate how much getting your screen obscured by flames can ruin your day I had become quite good at killing heavies in 1v1 if I could circlestrafe around them while they were spinning around looking for me, and in a team fight, a good incendiary rocket could really destabilize the entire enemy team and give them a significant handicap because they didn't really know where they were shooting anymore Then again, I was playing for fun on a gaming site's servers, so maybe in higher ranked competitive the players had learned to not be bothered anymore...
@@sonicdml4175 yeah, someone in the comments did call it projectiles but i'm not sure if they mean't it literally, is there any weapon that interacts with projectiles in tfc?
@@Roebloz if you could eqip the scorchshot as a primary ? Yes If you can't/ have it as a 4th pyro weapon ? No If you can go for the reads/can hit close range targets it can be decent as it's explosion Radius is higher than from Any flaregun. The Dammage is unimportant as you want to get critz with the flaregun the large explosion Radius helps assist you in longer range encounters as you'll be able to Sync shots. I'd eqip it as primary if i could, to learn flare combo-ing.
I'd imagine beatrice as a sort of femme fatale in her younger years. Give her ling blonde hair and be physically pretty with the offset of the massive burn scar on her face.
the IC is useful for distraction. it broadcast itself to the enemy and causes them an attempt to dodge, player conditioning. The other great thing about it is that the explosion goes through walls and functions fully underwater. Shots under the battlements would ignite people above it, shooting the respawn door could ignite people inside. Less of an offensive class, more of a zoner and area control.
I feel like if Beatrice and Pyro actually canonically met, Beatrice would actually know what was going on psychologically with Pyro, because I feel like Beatrice would inherently know that Pyro suffers from the enslavement of the Pyrovision goggles, since it would be rare to find someone to willingly do that so joyously, and would reveal to Pyro what’s *actually* going on, and act like a parental figure to Pyro, and help them adjust to the real world
It's also worth noting that having airblast also further limits the TFC Pyro's options. You can't lob grenades or use that launcher because the TF2 Pyro can just airblast them back. Underwater, hilariously, the TF2 Pyro wins. On land, if you can chip away at the armor, get the afterburn going, the TFC Pyro's especially screwed. She'd have more than that burn on the side of her head
I have played nearly 27,000 hours of Team Fortress Classic. I was a member of the last standing TFC clan, which still operates servers today, that being esclan.net, or -[EVIL]-. Not bragging but I want this to be clear: TFC pyro is a mess. The only feasible way of dealing reliable damage is through using a mix of the incendiary RL and nades. Napalm nades are really only good if you plan on throwing two or three in a cramped space loaded with enemies. For instance, blue team's gate on dustbowl last, shutdown2 flag room, 2fort entrance to battlements by main spawn. Even then, at most the damage enemies will take is lackluster. Grenades rule the world, and thankfully pyro has them. The flamethrower is a complete joke. It fires literal flame projectiles which deal, again, lackluster damage. The only real thing I ever have used it for is to blind snipers aiming at me, to limited effect, and maybe killing a scout or two. The only two effective tools for dealing damage Pyro has are the incendiary RL, and his four grenades. Shite class overall. I would prefer that the prospective pyro player learn to play medic, solly or demoman. HW is a tough one to master, with conc grenade spam and such. I figure I ought to prove my claim with a screenshot. prnt.sc/z5c1dTupa7Rh (my hours)
I remember playing in a competitive highlander TFC league. Boy, did everyone absolutely hate having to play pyro. You're essentially regulated as an additional flag runner/grenade thrower. The fire was a total non-factor.
I don't feel like bunnyhopping should be taken into account. It's a glitch that wasn't removed. There are glitches for infinite crits, health and so on in tf2, so should we incude those?
It was a bug in the original engine but purposely leaned into for TFC. It wasn't some unown thing at the time, they even capped the max speed for it through a patch. Things like rocket and grenade jumping started out as bugs as well but were fully embraced when making TF. Theres not really an equivalent in TF2. If there was then it would included.
good video overall and I agree with a lot of the points, but was interested as to why you compared the flaregun to the cannon and not the dragon's fury, that weapon seems much more similar in nature and identity to it
The Incendiary Cannon and Dragon's Fury have some key similarities but the DF having a very limited range and no explosion makes its overall function/purpose much different. I think the Scorch Shot would definitely be the closest parallel and the Flare Gun is the base version so I went with that.
Squim, for the grenades, one should consider using other assorted items for each class, for example, soldier could get a banner or base jumper, sniper could get either a backpack item or jarate
I want another addition or something where there would be the best loadout for the TF2 class against their TFC counterparts, especially for the ones that lose.
i like the modern pyro's mystery which helps valve give them much of a personality because that way i won't hate them because of their personality like i do with modern scout
Yeah, air blast would actually counter alot of TFC pyro's abilities, including bunny hop. You can't bunny hop if you are constantly pinned by air blast.
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Sharpened Volcano Fragment](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UscChAbVCpE/mqdefault.jpg)
An oddly high number of people seem to be confused as to why airblast wasn't included with the Pyro's abilities. And that's just cause it isn't an ability of the TF2 Pyro. It's an ability of the TF2 Flamethrower. Something like afterburn immunity is an innate attribute of the Pyro but airblast is tied directly to 1 weapon which was why it was covered in the flamethrower segment and not abilities.
@lol oak
Why include a TFC specific feature like B hopping but not Unlocks?
@@GallusCorvus Grenades and the Incendiary Canon are also TFC only features. Like I said in the begining of the vid, this series is primarily about comparing the 2 games. Bunnyhopping is an important ability in TFC and should be shown. But also when it comes to the hypothetical 1v1 being able to pick the best of dozens of unlocks for the matchup is a massive advantage. It kind of invalidates the reasoning for a 1v1 to exist. Sticking to default options is the only way to have a consistent standard of fairness and by default TFC classes can bhop. (Plus let's be real, TFC has extremely lackluster weapons so it kinda needs an edge somewhere.)
@@SquimJim Yeah that make sense
Do the medic
I've never realized, but all the tfc team had to do to win is to say "excuse me, I'm in need of some medical attention," then the tfc medic will rush out of the retietirement home and not heal, but poison the tf2 team because it's too hard to heal in that game.
The real reason the TFC Medic doesn't show up in the comics is because he would've solo'd the entire TF2 team.
a pissed-off TFC medic can solo the avengers
I think TFC medic either died of old age, or was sneakily killed by TF2 medic in order to create "space" for himself
@user-25352
I feel like that’s a great head canon as to what happened to the TFC Medic
@@yocapo32except that in the comic, TF2 Medic is the TFC Medic, and he beats TFC Heavy by poisoning (implanting Baboon Uteruses in) him.
I recall somewhere that the TFC Pyro was made with the design of basically kamikazeing the enemy team. The Pyro would die in the attack, but afterburn would claim the enemy team at the same time
That philosophy seems to have carried over to TF2 as well
W+M1 kind of sounds like wemone which is close to women.
DEEP LORE
Yup
How he is gonna kill the entire enemy team with 8 afterburn?
@@utku1441 the tfc pyro is a woman
@@professionalclown7166 no shit sherlock
Let’s remember that the developers of the original Team Fortress themselves stated pyro was effectively cannon fodder. His role was to be the first line of defense and Inevitably die just to weaken the enemies for the rest of your team to clean up
And for people with bad connections, cause aiming was hard when you had lag
Her*
@@Kittypower3422 Game Theory Made A Video
That Said That The Pyro Is Male
@@luckykidz804
A. That was TF2 Pyro. They were talking about TFC Pyro
B. His points were fuckin garbage.
C. Pyro is whatever gender they wanna be.
As a Pyro main, this is a job I am willing to do.
It's weird that you didn't point out that in a fight with grenades tfc pyro could heavily loose due to the fact that tf2 pyro can just deflect a grenade and it could destroy tfc armor due to the mini crits
I did though. A few times!
But realistically the TFC Pyro isn't going to be spamming projectiles in the face of the TF2 Pyro in the same way Soldier and Demos ideally avoid it in TF2. Assuming these are hypothetically 2 players who both know what they're doing. I'd view it more as a deterent rather than a consistent form of damage for TF2.
@@SquimJim [Reading this in SquimJim's voice.]
@@yazidefirenze now that you say that i do the same thing
@@yazidefirenze same
@@thebingus9671 well sh*t me too
Goldsource is honestly so jank, it’s really what set the Pyro back in TFC. The flamethrower is the biggest testament to that
The Incendiary Cannon is basically the dragon’s fury + the detonator . The animations are also similar on dragon’s fury and the incendiary cannon !
Man, would the Dragon's Fury have mulched TFC Pyro or what?
@@RedShocktrooperRST it would be near instant kill.
@@RedShocktrooperRSToh definitely
That thing chews through a Heavy and it will ignore the afterburn immunity. TF2 pyro needs to bunny hop constantly to avoid getting hit by it and needs to bait out an airblast to have a chance at winning.
wouldn't it be cool if someone modded the weapons in and see how well they would do against stock TF2? sounds fun
Be a cool game mode if red was tf2 and blue was tf
I guess it would be a lot easier to mod in the weapons as opposed to trying to recreate the entire TFC class in TF2 since implementing armor and especially bunny hopping I expect would be very difficult.
Also from what we have seen so far, it looks like a lot of weapons wouldn’t be very viable in TF2 but they would be neat to see nonetheless
@@bobbyferg9173 on average so far,TF2 would be better for getting in close ,TFC would be better at distance fights and burst damage/utility factors
Open fortress has tfc inspired and TF2 weapons
Gmod: am i a joke to you
In TF2 for some weird reason, Pyro is the only class to reliably gain speed from simply doing the motions of bhopping. You don't really need to do it all that well, you still gain a lot of speed, especially with the Powerjack.
They all gain speed from bunnyhopping, it's just a very low amount.
Pyro’s original purpose for tfQuake was to be a low skill floor, low maximum output class. It was made for people with bad connection or who didn’t have enough free time to get really good at the other classes.
Robin Walker’s original description of the pyro stated that it would probably die in most 1v1 situations, but would provide enough damage to still benefit the team. So even if you can’t dominate a server or carry your team, you can still be helpful.
Tf2’s pyro serves a similar purpose, with a very low skill floor that provides new players a way to learn the mechanics while still helping their team and getting kills here and there, but unlike the tfc pyro it also has a very high skill ceiling.
I think literally any of Sketchek’s pyro videos are enough to prove just how powerful a skilled pyro can be. Airblast and the ability to combo with secondaries and melee make tf2 pyro a much more versatile class in the hands of an experienced player.
sketchek's videos?
P
@@wgetJane Yah his videos are insane! As Pyro he somehow figured out how to use the DeadRinger
@@wgetJane Yah his videos are insane! As Pyro he somehow figured out how to use the DeadRinger
@@bobbyferg9173 I can't remember the DR turning me into an anime vtuber boy, must be a new update.
Im imagining the TFC pyro thinking they're hot shit for having grenades then immediately having it airblasted back at them
I wish this was in the comics
How do you airblast a perfectly cooked nade blowing up in your face?
@@SevenCompleted get good
@@wesellclams8657 you tf2 players don't realize most of us are wise to your tricks we all played tf2 realized tfc was better and went back.
@@SevenCompleted the way you word it sounds like don’t even play tfc, but don’t like tf2. Idk why
even by the standards of tfc, the tfc pyro is a janky mess. the pyro for the original tf was basically designed for people with bad connections to still be able to contribute, rather than actually be good at the game
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
pyro in tf2 is just a much better-designed and more well-rounded class than in tfc
@@fluffydestroyer8336 But Pyro in MTF was much better though. In FortressOne is like a Soldier and more usefull in a competitive scene
I'd like to imagine that the TFC Pyro's voice sounding like that could be explained as her maybe having smoked a lot of cigars to where it gave her a deeper and rougher voice like real people can have happen to them if they smoke a lot over their life.
Or the mask could just have a voice modifier.
Or maybe she was 2nd TFC Pyro after the first one (one with voicelines) died/retired.
Or they fucked up the continuity
or maybe she's trans lol
Cigars do not affect your voice.
Dont forget that in TFC pyro used the same ammo (cells) as the engineer used to build, wich means that pyro was the only class unable to help engineers obtain materials for their buildings.
It wasnt easy being a Pybro.
don’t forget enemy engineer’s EMP grenades. both rockets and cells which you can’t discard cause you to explode instantly if you are hit by one of those.
strange, because the tfc pyro was specifically intended to be a low-skill-floor class that was good at helping out the team for people who weren't good enough to topfrag
He could still be helping by distracting and blinding enemies long enough for them to mess up.
(And obviously spycheck)
But his damage was too low for a good defense and speed was too low for a good offense.
I guess when valve decided to give him crits everywhere in TF2 they really overcompensated fearing any class being useless, even though the TF2 pyro is extremely versetile and usefull even if he would have low damage output, with tools for mobility, unzapping, sniper hickups, sticky clearing and of course airblast.
More like being a Pysis in this case.
@@NeidhardtDerBlitzschnelle Afterburn ran out almost instantly too so there wasnt much point backing up either.
Anyone else a little concerned that the TFC average for close ranged flamethrower killing time is 0.666?
Seems more fitting if anything
Lucky devil
pyro lore
The tfc pyro probobly worships the devil in shes basement
@@Nuh_Uh._69420airline 21662668392691725366263746266900101096699420692983929691839273540
bunnyhopping is barely an advantage when the tf2 pyro can airblast you into the air to kill your movement while also throwing off your aim
If one class has a clear movement advantage your response shouldn't be "Well it doesn't matter because if pyro gets close enough to the enemy he wins easily". Its the same idea behind the buffalo steak sandwich and I don't think I need to explain why that doesn't work out
@@helloworld4990 that's a case by case and works for both, what's the point of having a movement speed advantage if you need to get close to the enemie that can shut down your movement and aim or in heavy's case, kill you.
@@thelastmlg2699 ? I don't think you understood what I said... the tfc pyro is a slightly tankier class with better mobility and lower damage. You can't disregard a major part of their skillset because of a situational ability that doesn't counter it in the slightest. Overall the tf2 pyro is a better designed class that doesn't mean completely disregarding things in an effort to prove what we already know (tf2 is a better game than tfc)
@@helloworld4990 i don't see why we can't disregard it if airblast does indeed counter most applications of their mobility, especially when you consider that grenade jumping damages TFC pyro and B-hopping shouldn't even be considered as it is a exploit rather than a mechanic, and even then, what good is his mobility if he is forced to be upclose to the pyro, thus subject to airblast?
Yes, we can disregard a major part of their skillset if tf2 pyro has a way to counter + it barely mattering for their combat style.
At this point, considering it an advantage is arbitrary, this is like having someone who's strong and skilled beat someone who's very fast because "they got two advantages" when speed counters both, it is simple not the purpose of the video which the OP pointed out
@@thelastmlg2699 It's laughable to disregard a core game mechanic as an exploit. Bhopping has been a part of the goldsrc engine since HL1 the developers of the game made it with bhopping in mind and can be considered intended behaviour. If you didn't know that basic fact then I have absolutely 0 confidence in you knowledge of anything relating to valve.
Secondly you say that bhopping only applies to skilled players yet so does popping someone in the air with airblast? You are hypocritical in your arguments. Tf2s pyro clearly has the close range advantage but there are many things in the tfc pyros arsenal that points to it being better in the medium range category having the mobility to stay far out of range of the tf2 pyro and projectiles effective even against the most skilled airblaster. In addition to this the effective health of the tfc pyro is significantly higher and the tf2 pyro suffers much more from the loss of afterburn as TFCs afterburn is absolute trash. Overall both pyros have useful abilities and attributes that in a stock battle isn't as simple as just "pop them in the air" it could easily go either way
Fun fact the crowbar can do headshots damage and the hitbox is very generous if you know where to aim
That is stupid and awesome
imagine if melee headshots were in tf2.
" i prefer aiming for the head. "
"oh, so your a sniper main? "
" no, a demo knight main. "
@@GunSpyEnthusiast Would be fun if there was a scout bat that encouraged headshots so the lines about beating your head in would make more sense
I can tell you first hand that pyro was perhaps the least played class in TFC, and was considered a very garbage class because it just didn't do a lot of damage or get a lot of kills, and was awkward to use.
While pyro is considered the "noob class" of TF2, Heavy took that spot in TFC. Pyro was really hard to utilize effectively.
Is Squim secretly Tom Jones? I mean we have never seen both of them in the same room at the same time. 🤔
Shhhh! Don't give away my secrets!
I realized I should have saved this question for the spy episode. Oh well I'll be back next time with a question
@@SquimJim you can't hide it from us forever
OH MY GOD
SquimJim is Scout's father?!
That's cuz he's dead.
its definitely a good choice to leave unlocks mostly out of these as theyd make this entire series obselete
Virgin TFC Pyro
-Relatively weak projectiles
-Trying her best to fight and cant beat TF2 Pyro
-Needs to Bhop to compensate and didn't win
Chad TF2 Pyro
-Unaware of his actions and is a menace to the gameplay
-More consistent and superior damage
-Doesn't need advanced skills to kill
_dragon's fury makes pyro, a damage dealing beast_
Based redpilled
forgot to add one for tfc pyro
-has ugly mask
-female
@@godofshovels4031 "women" (drinks coffee)
Afterburn in tfc is supposed to blind enemies more than damaging them.
I think something else to mention in this discussion is just how much airblast counters mobility. Sure, bunnyhopping allows TFC Pyro to basically play as a Scout, but think of how often a decent TF2 Pyro shuts down the mobility of a Demoknight, Trolldier, or even Scout in enclosed spaces. And if you consider how much TFC Pyro is similar to Heavy (high health, high point-blank damage, minimal spread), the tactic of pinning your enemy in a corner and throwing off their aim just becomes that much more viable.
I'm a little confused here: Bunny hopping was considered a unique ability for TFC, but air blast wasn't considered for TF2? I realize that one of the flamethrowers can't air blast, but seeing as unlocks aren't the main focus of the video, it seems strange that it wasn't mentioned in that section of the video as a unique power as that's exactly what it is. Amazing video tho, love the content! Keep it up, these are super entertaining to watch!
Airblast was included with the flamethrower because it's specifically only on that weapon. Where afterburn immunity and bunnyhopping are innate abilities able to be active at all times.
And thank you!
@@SquimJim I did notice you didn't consider pyro's innate fire *damage* resist too. Or the fact that armor breaks in TFC.
@@vyor8837 because pyro doesn't resist fire damage, at all, only afterburn
You don’t know that the TFC Pyro isn’t still a woman in the actual game! I mean working with fire and smoke CANNOT be good for your lungs and voice.
She also has a mask over her head, obfuscation her voice further.
@@Rogeryoo I mean hey who said the TFC Pyro had a better mask than the TF2 Pyro.
@@supermudkipz plus its 1930 so gas mask isn't as good as 1960 gas mask
so the TFC Pyro would basically be:
Degreaser/phlog
Panic Attack
Axtinguisher
(or which loudout would most resemble his on TF2?)
_woman moment_
@@Alltheprayers nah.. I got sausage, brother
It would be funny to make some skin mod that turns this loadout pyro into the tfc one (in the style of tf2)
This is still my favorite series.
Always fun having a history lesson that is about something I care about.
Rock and stone, brother!
@@isaacmayer-splain8974 YEAH ROCK AND STONE!
IF YOU AINT ROCK AND STONE, YOU AINT COMING HOME
TFC Pyro died of inflation. Big F.
Kinky, ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Lol.
You mean fiscal inflation, right?
Right?
Always a treat seeing you upload!
We look who we got here
@@inspektor5560 who do we have here? i forgot
@@MooseGuy From sunday livestreams from OldSchoolTF2
@@inspektor5560 i know lol, i was just trying to be funny
tbh, since TF2 Pyro has the phsyce of a 6 year old, and TFC Pyro is an old woman. I can honestly see both Pyros acting as a wholesome Grandmother and her grandson
You mentioned that the TFC Cannon did a little as 20 damage, then you mentioned that splash damage does 20, the game might have simply though it splash damage when it wasn't
I remember that game! We put up a good hold at the end despite BLU's 2 spies which were probably abusing interp!
Squim out of all the other UA-cam channels I have seen YOU are the only one I find bingeable. Thank you
0:51 I have heard woman that sounds like that which was mostly likely due to a smoking problem.
Smoking problem
The close range time to kill of the flamethrower might not be accurate, there's a quirk with the flamethrower where the oldest flame in contact with a target is used to calculate damage falloff (which is time based and not distance traveled based) so burning a target in front of a wall, which will stop the old flames from moving past the target, will result in longer kill times. Also the pyro has damage ramp up as well, which takes about 1 second and doubles his damage output if he has consistently kept flames touching a target, so the low health numbers don't necessarily reflect the actual damage output capabilities of the pyro.
Anyways, TFC Pyro can talk. We can hear he says "Medic!"
Incendiary cannon also can ignite players behind the walls. Combined with screen being blocked by fire (yes, it ACTUALLY significantly affects the game) this weapon is the best for spamming into walls, spy checking and annoying snipers. That's basically is even more broken scorch shot, and i really think TFC should have win this round.
I agree
TFC did win the secondary weapon round though.
Even though it's damage is shit and Pyro could just airblast the slow as hell projectile.
@@HB-fq9nn yeah, he can, yet it have kind of a "fire shotgun" style of application in the close quarters combat because of horrifyingly big splash radius and a very fast firing speed. It requires some skill and knowledge, but that's the most powerful TFC pyro weapon if it used right.
Considering TFC pyro was garbage tier in her own game, that's highly unlikely.
@@jumpinghunter9152 tf2 pyro is immune to afterburn so it wouldn't matter.
Crazy jumpy old women vs -murderous arsonist- happy magic girl
"Which averages out to 0.666 seconds"
That couldn't be more serendipitous if it tried.
9:26
-440% projectile speed means it would go backwards at more than 4 times the speed. You probably meant -75 or -80%
I have finally watched you after breakfast
There's a glitch with damage rampup on the flamethrower in tf2 where it calculated damage with old particles. The effect is that a foe against a wall doesnt take optimal rampup at point blank. You should have tested it in an open space.
I love the Team Fortress Classic Voicelines of the Pyro because it does not fit after TF2 comic #5 or #4 old wounds
everything went downhill for the TFC pyro when they unveiled her gender
meanwhile our current chad/chadette pyro is obnoxiously strong and still ambiguous as ever
Waiting for someone to complain and say this comment is sexist lol
we might just have to congratulate them on winning the gold medal for jumping to conclusions
i dont get it whats wrong with TFC pyro
Woman = what the fuck is that thing
based
Now I'm excited for Tf2 Engineer vs tfc Engineer (who is presumably tf2 engineers father)
Congratulations on getting your first rank of Hale’s own!
Did not expect a new video today. O_O
To be honest? Bad as the TFC Pyro was, it would be cool to see them do TF2 cosmetics based on the outfit for the modern Pyro, much like what Heavy and Medic have. Something like the mask, flak jacket and camo suit as three pieces could work well!
Can I get an internet high five from the real SquimJim TF2?
Yes
Here you go
My favorite parts of these videos is how the old weapons would transition over to tf2
0:52 but this is Open Fortress civilian sound
From tfc. Open fortress was lazy and reused it
I was an avid TFC player, and I kinda liked the pyro, but I considered them more like a support class. You never deal really good damage, but I think you severely underestimate how much getting your screen obscured by flames can ruin your day
I had become quite good at killing heavies in 1v1 if I could circlestrafe around them while they were spinning around looking for me, and in a team fight, a good incendiary rocket could really destabilize the entire enemy team and give them a significant handicap because they didn't really know where they were shooting anymore
Then again, I was playing for fun on a gaming site's servers, so maybe in higher ranked competitive the players had learned to not be bothered anymore...
awesome video keep up the great work :D
Great video Squim, im so happy Pyro won
3:22 you forgot tf2 pyro’s airblast
i hope more of tf2 and tfc battles happen , i love this alot
The gas passer wishes it was the napalm grenades.
Would it be possible to reflect TFC flamethrower fire, like you can with the Dragon's Fury projectiles, they seem to work fairly similarly?
The dragon fury shoots projectiles, not sure if the stream of fite from tfc is a projectile, at least similar enough to rockets and grenades
@@thelastmlg2699 who knows
@@sonicdml4175 yeah, someone in the comments did call it projectiles but i'm not sure if they mean't it literally, is there any weapon that interacts with projectiles in tfc?
@@thelastmlg2699 I have no idea.
Probably not. You can't reflect other pyros flames, and those ARE projectiles. No reason the TFC flamethrower would be reflectable
Yo, did everyone forget that the incendiary cannons damage can go through walls? I felt that was a pretty major point to miss
Congrats on the Hale's Own, and it was fun playing with you and Jib :)
love your content squimjim, keep it up!
I feel like airblast should be in the abilities category
AFTER BREAKFAAAAAAAST UPLOOOOOOOOAD
Incendiary cannon could be combo'ed with the flare gun as a primary.
Hit the objective (and hit a lot of people) and then snipe with the flaregun.
Scorch Shot with extra steps
@@Roebloz if you could eqip the scorchshot as a primary ? Yes
If you can't/ have it as a 4th pyro weapon ? No
If you can go for the reads/can hit close range targets it can be decent as it's explosion Radius is higher than from Any flaregun.
The Dammage is unimportant as you want to get critz with the flaregun the large explosion Radius helps assist you in longer range encounters as you'll be able to Sync shots.
I'd eqip it as primary if i could, to learn flare combo-ing.
15:36 you scared the shit out of me bru
The incendiary cannon looks like it functions a lot like the dragons fury than the flare gun. In my opinion.
I feel like that’d be worse for tfc, so dragons fury would just be overkill
Someone make a TFC vs TF2 game so we can all finally settle this
WHY IS THE COMMENTS SO NEW???
Bruh ikr
I wanna see this done with every class, I would love to see that.
I'd imagine beatrice as a sort of femme fatale in her younger years. Give her ling blonde hair and be physically pretty with the offset of the massive burn scar on her face.
She could use her hair to cover that half of her face, furthering the femme fatale style
the IC is useful for distraction. it broadcast itself to the enemy and causes them an attempt to dodge, player conditioning.
The other great thing about it is that the explosion goes through walls and functions fully underwater. Shots under the battlements would ignite people above it, shooting the respawn door could ignite people inside.
Less of an offensive class, more of a zoner and area control.
Mmmph hudda mmmph
I agree.
I feel like if Beatrice and Pyro actually canonically met, Beatrice would actually know what was going on psychologically with Pyro, because I feel like Beatrice would inherently know that Pyro suffers from the enslavement of the Pyrovision goggles, since it would be rare to find someone to willingly do that so joyously, and would reveal to Pyro what’s *actually* going on, and act like a parental figure to Pyro, and help them adjust to the real world
Squim why isnt my dad back with the milk yet?
They ran out. I am your father now.
It's also worth noting that having airblast also further limits the TFC Pyro's options. You can't lob grenades or use that launcher because the TF2 Pyro can just airblast them back. Underwater, hilariously, the TF2 Pyro wins. On land, if you can chip away at the armor, get the afterburn going, the TFC Pyro's especially screwed. She'd have more than that burn on the side of her head
I have played nearly 27,000 hours of Team Fortress Classic. I was a member of the last standing TFC clan, which still operates servers today, that being esclan.net, or -[EVIL]-. Not bragging but I want this to be clear: TFC pyro is a mess. The only feasible way of dealing reliable damage is through using a mix of the incendiary RL and nades. Napalm nades are really only good if you plan on throwing two or three in a cramped space loaded with enemies. For instance, blue team's gate on dustbowl last, shutdown2 flag room, 2fort entrance to battlements by main spawn. Even then, at most the damage enemies will take is lackluster. Grenades rule the world, and thankfully pyro has them. The flamethrower is a complete joke. It fires literal flame projectiles which deal, again, lackluster damage. The only real thing I ever have used it for is to blind snipers aiming at me, to limited effect, and maybe killing a scout or two.
The only two effective tools for dealing damage Pyro has are the incendiary RL, and his four grenades. Shite class overall. I would prefer that the prospective pyro player learn to play medic, solly or demoman. HW is a tough one to master, with conc grenade spam and such.
I figure I ought to prove my claim with a screenshot. prnt.sc/z5c1dTupa7Rh (my hours)
Medic is basically scout but better, in fact lots of comp servers in tfc outright banned medic for being too op
i always win
pyro gaming
these are so good can't wait for more
8:20 you know what else is massive?
I remember playing in a competitive highlander TFC league. Boy, did everyone absolutely hate having to play pyro. You're essentially regulated as an additional flag runner/grenade thrower. The fire was a total non-factor.
we all tend to forget that in the tfc universe everyone has armor and it makes the pyro trash
If anyone is wondering, the music kicking in at the beginning, barily noticable for the rest of the video is Ragnarok Canyon from Battletoads SNES
Can't wait for demo, thats will be fun
I don't feel like bunnyhopping should be taken into account. It's a glitch that wasn't removed. There are glitches for infinite crits, health and so on in tf2, so should we incude those?
It was a bug in the original engine but purposely leaned into for TFC. It wasn't some unown thing at the time, they even capped the max speed for it through a patch.
Things like rocket and grenade jumping started out as bugs as well but were fully embraced when making TF.
Theres not really an equivalent in TF2. If there was then it would included.
Bunnyhopping isn't a glitch in TFC, it's just an advanced mechanic.
good video overall and I agree with a lot of the points, but was interested as to why you compared the flaregun to the cannon and not the dragon's fury, that weapon seems much more similar in nature and identity to it
The Incendiary Cannon and Dragon's Fury have some key similarities but the DF having a very limited range and no explosion makes its overall function/purpose much different.
I think the Scorch Shot would definitely be the closest parallel and the Flare Gun is the base version so I went with that.
@@SquimJim fair enough.
Can't wait to see the next episode of this series.
And thank you for explaining why you went with your choice
You're my favourite TF2 content creator. Always great to see a new video from you
informative! Don't really know much about tfc.
Yoooo the series is back
Can't wait for soldier!
I thought the incendiary cannon would be much cooler when i first heard of it.
man need more of these
" on to the grenade round, which is basically a free win for tfc, "
airblast : * swears in miles per hour *
I’ve been waiting for this
How much of a coincidence that the average flamethrower damage is .666 seconds...
What will win a weapon meant to call for help or A canon that shoots fire balls
TF2 Spy vs TFC Spy should be next!
Squim, for the grenades, one should consider using other assorted items for each class, for example, soldier could get a banner or base jumper, sniper could get either a backpack item or jarate
I want another addition or something where there would be the best loadout for the TF2 class against their TFC counterparts, especially for the ones that lose.
i like the modern pyro's mystery which helps valve give them much of a personality because that way i won't hate them because of their personality like i do with modern scout
Yeah, air blast would actually counter alot of TFC pyro's abilities, including bunny hop. You can't bunny hop if you are constantly pinned by air blast.