[TF2] Weapons Ruined by One Stat
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
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Team Fortress 2 weapons have stats. Sometimes the good ones don't balance out the bad ones. These are some TF2 weapons ruined by one stat.
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![[TF2] Head Collecting Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7SU8Xz5-qAU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Head Collecting Weapons](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Self-Healing Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IZTfXzGQtaE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Slept On Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeedLZsJwjo/mqdefault.jpg)
I’d wager the classic would be used a LOT more, regardless of stats if Valve released the strange filter for CTF_2fort
I have seen the classic used more on dustbowl for some reason
They should make it have a unique strange filter for noscopes like how the loose cannon has one for double donks
@@BurgerBoi945*Bloke!*
@@yspear_it’s because of the long hallways on Dustbowl. It’s the same reason why you cannot play dustbowl without one huntsman sniper on either team.
I refuse to use any non-Classic sniper rifle
im amazed you didnt mention the Baby Face's Blaster, "lose boost on hit" is one of the biggest pains you can experience as a scout
Honestly that part isn't the problem, it rewards your skill at not being hit, it's the lose boost on double jump that really hurts because you're losing out on your ability to evade incoming damage.
@@king_acceler8755the thing is, it's an effective trade off. You sacrifice vertical mobility for heightened horizontal mobility. That's what it was originally and it was considered one of Scout's best shotgun. I think it would be fine with one or the other but both at once leaves you dead in the water. You can avoid taking damage if you have double jump, or you don't need double jump if you can bail with a few scrapes. But you get the worst of both.
Honestly? I've found a pretty unique advantage that gives you. Since you lose a LOT of boost on a simple hit, if you take just a slight amount of damage, you get slowed down pretty significantly. Which is bad, EXCEPT for predicting movement. If you know how to utilize the speed loss, you can start doing some INSANE weaving, especially if you can get a solid shot or two in the middle of dodging.
@@U.Inferno I just think it would be better if the damaged required to drain the bar would be the same you news to completely fill it.
@@king_acceler8755 it is not per-se but as it stands you lose it EXTREMELY quickly, like, 4 damage is enough to drain a third of your bar, its ludicrous how little damage you need to take to become effectively a sitting duck with less than 125 hp
I just want to add some to the Your Eternal Reward, if you are using the clock and dagger, you can change disguise while invisible and still be invisible, as long you have full clock and stand still when changing disguise, you aren't kicked out of invisibility
How useful that is, don't know, just liked to point out
It's useful, but also incredibly boring as I often find myself standing still while invisible, waiting for my cloak to come back up and it doesn't combo well with the C&D's already faster cloak drain
@@bobthebox2993you know the revolver that gives a longer cloak right?
@@Monke99_ yup, you're pretty much forced to use it if you're running C&D and YER together.
Equipping the l'etranger is like putting a bandage on the place where your leg got cut-off. It's better than nothing, but it doesn't fix the problem
on defence the yer, cloak and dagger and letranger is ok to use but u need to stop being passive if the enemy team tries to invade lol
@@thamzhiyong3161 you can just be a useless spy too. It's like a midpoint between tryhard and hoovy. You could be a super passive spy that stabs only 5 times each match, but nobody sees it coming ever. It never carries, but you hate to lose because of a ghost
October 20, 2017 Patch #1 (Jungle Inferno Update)
Changed attributes:
Removed Cannot Disguise penalty.
Non-kill disguises require and consume a full cloak meter. Backstab-based disguises are still free.
Increased cloak drain rate by 33%.
The YER wasnt able to disguise at all before jungle inerno, so it was a buff.
It was intended to be a buff, but the cloak drain penalty is such a downside it dragged it down
Imo, it kind of evened out away from being a buff back to pretty much the same effectiveness as it was before. It didn't need an extra downside from before because losing all your cloak for a disguise is a downside in of itself. The weapon was obviously painfully undertuned before, and still is
The YER’s has a combo with the C&D as you can disguise with it while invis and still be invisible
Only issue is the cloak drain penalty is super high,
@@samtricks1966 If you use l'Etranger with it, it COMPLETELY counters the cloak drain and even give you slightly more clock than usual.
The TF2 wiki calculated it : while running, you have 6.6 seconds of invis with the C&D.
If you equip BOTH the YER and l'Etranger, that timer actually goes UP to roughly 8 seconds.
@@drucy.which is 2 seconds less than usual
@@fadesaway If you compare with the boring stock cloak, sure. But you really shouldn't be using the stock watch with the YER, as the C&D was MADE for the YER.
If you compare with base C&D (with non-YER knife and non-Etranger revolver), it's one and a half more second of cloak.
And the C&D allows you to stay cloaked while you manually disguise provided you stand still and let it fill all the way up.
And if you get caught without a disguise, the C&D allows to go invisible to lose your attacker, then you go stay in a corner until it fills back up, disguise while invisible then rinse and repeat.
And if you don't have any cloak meter left when spotted, just hit the enemies a two or three times with l'Etranger, then casually cloak and repeat the previous paragraph.
My point is that the C&D and l'Etranger completely remove the YER downsides (or at least, circumvente them easily) while letting take full advantage of its upsides.
@@drucy.YER with CND isn't that good ngl, stabbing a target everyone just confirmed wasn't a spy already gives you enough cover and time to make a play as long as nobody saw you do it, it's designed for chain stabbing and dealing with engie nests, CND is designed for well-timed single target picks, and if it's only 1 kill then at that point just use any other knife that doesn't add on to the CND's already low mobility.
L'etranger, stock watch, and YER is the best load out for it.
I find the cloak drain on the YER to be its primary downside. You're going to rely on the cloak to get behind the enemy and stab them far more than you will rely on the disguises to fool them. You practically need to use the L'Etranger or Cloak 'n Dagger with the YER to be effective, since otherwise you're just not going to be invis long enough to get into a good position. At which point it doesn't matter if you have a disguise or not, because the enemy team is always going to spycheck the weirdly positioned "teammate."
I actually think the update that added the Cloak Drain penalty and the Manual Disguising for the YER was a pretty significant nerf because of this. The manual disguises are really only worth using if you're in spawn, because most of the time you're going to want your cloak more than you're going to want a disguise.
Valve really decided to double nerf Spy in what was already a Pyro themed update lol
You don't really need to use the L'Etranger. I only play spy with the YER, so I've gotten used to the cloak drain and I just use the amby instead.
I dont see how they nerfed the YER in that update, you werent even able to change your disguise before at all, it's a slight buff even tbh
YER used to be my favorite spy knife until it got nerfed in jungle inferno, I really don't know why valve decided to nerf spy so hard there, imo YER could have been buffed with a lower cloak drain rate and it would have been perfect, the ability to put on disguises in spawn or by spending cloak was so dumb and really removed the fun factor for me
the manual disguises are worth using outside of spawn. you just need better cloak management and make better use of ammo boxes. it does make the gameplay slower at times, but it does really pay off. very underrated knife, just requires more thought to use (and the l'etranger).
The classic has semi unironically become my favourite Sniper weapon somehow.
I named mine "The hitscan huntsman" and I love landing unscoped headshots. Tho only being able to headshot from 100% charge is a massive pain (I mean 50% would be fine IMO) you kinda get used to it and work around it.
Being able to jump while charging and the far large FoV while preparing a charged shot is definetly a plus.
Same
yesss i unironically use the classic so much, it's actually my favorite rifle :D it makes you think a little differently from the other rifles
When I played a lot more I definitely preferred the Classic. It also annoyed people almost as much as the Huntsman because some people hate it when they die to bad weapons.
I'm on the no-scoping ever train with it. The time I played for months on end almost solely using the Classic was the time I got best at Sniper since it forced me to make my shots count.
I use the Classic in a way that gets a lot of people scratching their heads, but is really fun. I use it as a support rifle.
Find a weird niche sightline that overlooks the teamfight, and pump out no-charge or low-charge bodyshots. You can do around 45-60ish damage a hit, which is nothing to sneeze at in terms of suppressing fire helping a teamfight, it keeps enemy medics from being as effective due to the whole "medics heal faster if you haven't taken damage" mechanic, and you can rack up a surprising amount of assists. People also generally don't expect to take 50 damage from halfway across the map in the middle of a fight, and will generally run away more often.
Theres literally no such thing as "semi unironically". You just have no idea what youre trying to say, or no idea what youre actually saying. Now also drop the word penultimately and youre a complete conc_jump into a ceiling fan.
26:00 Admire that big brain Heavy play of blocking rockets.
The amby is still really good, you make it sound like it does peashooter damage out of smelling distance which it doesn’t it only does peashooter damage from really far away
It's actually less effective overall than the revolver if you0 don't land every headshot perfectly at its furthest range, and falls behind pathetically at bodyshots only. Combined with the fact that up close the revolver's DPS very easily beats it, your only major advantage is damage thresholds at that range. So you can 2 tap light classes and your most effective range compared to stock is at the very edge of the headshot range. It's really not worth it if you want to play seriously, especially since the Enforcer covers the same important damage thresholds up close without losing out on a ton of damage. Spy still has an important team role in cleaning up enemies with his gun, after all. Being able to take a fight safely and reliably matters quite a bit.
Still a fun weapon though, despite the steep range nerf
@@OmegaRC59to me the biggest problem is how hard it is to headshot with it.
And you need to do it TWICE for little benefit and at a close range
Just give up if the targets can survive 2 headshots since its basically roulette at that point
And the funniest thing is today gun spies are way more of threat , even non competent players.
Back in the day everyone uses amby but if they sucked they sucked, couldnt land a single headshot or normal shot and would look like an idiot.
Today a non competent player has an easier life since they dont need to aim at the head and shoot the body
Give the Liberty Launcher extra knock up for better synergy with the reserve shooter, that's all I need.
That and a weapon switch bonus for the combos
Extra knockback both for the enemy and the soldier who fires it, so it combos with the reserve shooter and the market garden.
Not-so-fun fact: Knockback escalates with damage dealt, and since the LL deals less damage, its knockback its actually LOWER than the rest of the rocket launchers, which means that its actually worse for combos, so your change + the one that was said before about a faster switch speed might actually be all what it needs to shine.
@@Guaporacerthen how does the rocket jumper work?
@@HellecticMojo apparently the RJ damage is not just straight up set to 0, but it's actually the same as the default RL but multiplied by 0
How exactly that leads to only user being affected, i don't know.
I love how you have the spy is just being there in the thumbnail, it got me thinking that you are just going to list every spy weapon and be like it is ruined by it being on the spy
Figured that’d be more the case with Heavy, since you can put a lot more powerful stuff on the guy since he’s so damn slow. Definitely a case where the class itself is a balancing factor.
The Buffalo Steak would count as a weapon ruined by this: even with the faster move speed, Heavy’s not made for melee, especially since he takes more damage. On the other hand, I recall Great Blue theorizing that the Fists of Steel would be an absolute nightmare on any other class.
I really enjoy using the Liberty Launcher with Gunboats or Mantreads and treating it like a poor mans rocket jumper, the extra rocket is really handy, it's insane that (from memory) the Cow Mangler had all it's current stats + 1 rocket to play around with.
It's interesting thinking about how the Liberty went from being a faster projectile weapon -1 rocket to this monstrosity. It really feels like the "my rocket launcher has an extra rocket and it's projectiles are faster and and I take less blast damage while using it so I can rocket jump more but she lives at a different school and and and" of rocket launchers.
The old Cow Mangler also had a 10% slower reload, but yeah the 5 rockets was downright silly and completely underrated
@@Mud-Brain I always thought the slower reload was a bug oppose to being intended but apparently that's not the case according to the wiki? Very odd.
Also I heard that even today the cow mangler shoots rockets 'somewhere in-between where stock & the original' shoots rockets from although I gained that information from a random Jump Map player.
@@TanteiRotana Never heard of it firing from a different coordinate, but it wouldn't surprise me at this point. Sometimes it's worth using just for the projectiles, since the lazers can be harder to notice on certain maps and against certain backgrounds.
Spy is my second most played class and, honestly, I think the Ambassador nerf was quite justified, alongside the Dead Ringer nerf in the same update. I can't comment on YER since I never use it, but old Amby and DR were outright dirty on their own, let alone together. Nowadays, they are still extremely powerful tools, but much more balanced, even in skilled hands. Now, the Diamondback not being nerfed is a whole different can of worms but I guess Valve somehow thought stored crit weapons are somehow more balanced?
Finally, someone who knows that the Amby still kicks ass even after the nerf. Why they passed up on the Diamondback for the crit range nerf, only Valve knows.
@@jblazerndrowzy The Diamondback requires that you come into melee range of an Engineer's buildings and survive the wrath of his team.
Yes, the Diamondback can drop a 102 crit from across the map, but you have to get close before it'll give you that kind of power.
Meanwhile, you can just walk out of spawn with the Amby and get all Counter-Strike on those oversized head hitboxes.
@RdTrler Bro, it's on backstab as well. Combine it with the kunai and the Dr and you got someone who can rack up hp and crits on new players and when the skilled ones catch up cheese their way out with hundreds of effective hitpoints
The Diamondback is one of the strangest ideas design wise. It's like if Sniper had a rifle that starts off with slightly slower charge speed but charges significantly faster as he racks up headshots. It rewards you for doing the task the class was designed to do.
@@RdTrler the diamondback requires that you do your job as spy or do your other job as spy it's very much ridiculous
The Ambassador, Deadringer and YER used to be the OP pub stomper loadout that rolled through servers for someone who was good at utilizing it. It’s funny you talked about the Yer’s manual disguise because that was a buff to the weapon.
Yes, and no.
Like. Technically, it is, but truthfully losing a full cloak meter for a disguise is PAINFUL. Combined with the increased cloak drain it means you almost never have either cloak or disguise. I honestly wish it'd just go back to the old way.
(But nostalgia goggles are a thing.)
Sad.
@@The24thWight I mean the old way was no manual disguise and no extra drain.
@@The24thWight No, it's a buff. Them adding the increased cloak drain isn't an issue with the disguising thing, it's a dumb thing they slapped on for no reason. And regardless of how crippling it is to do, having it in general is a buff. Not that it would have been much of a buff regardless, but hey.
spy cicle actually
@@The24thWightI wasn't there but from what I've heard you could Not disguise at all unless you stabbed someone with old YER no?
Having the option to disguise Manually anytime you want as opposed to not at all seems like a buff to me
And If you don't want it to have manual disguise you could just choose to not use it, and it's basically the same thing but now you have the option if you so wish
Honestly my main appeal with the Classic is it helps a lot with tunnel vision. You can still charge your shots, but you're also able to look around rather than hope the enemy isn't too smart and doesn't send scouts or spies after you (or heck other snipers). To me the unspoken major perk is just being able to see more
Library launcher:
+literally everything
- damage
Everyone:wtfing shit is this stupid weapon
Rip Library launcher
Damage tends to be everything because the faster you kill someone else the more chance you live and win the fight.
They already did nerf the Tomislav a long time ago, then boosted it back up. And the YER was once an essential enough tool while it was part of the Saharan Spy set, back when there was once a Fez that could make your cloak and decloaking noises borderline quiet, especially for the Dead Ringer back then. So imagine a world pre-nerf YER (back when it couldn't manually disguise period and didn't have the cloak drain as bad as it was) a probably post-buff or pre-buff L'tranger, and a pre-nerf Enforcer and Ambassador, and you'll get an idea of the paradise that Spies used to live in before it was all burned down to the ground until there was nothing left but today.
Technically, unlike the Pomson 5000, or anything else for that matter, the Ambassador is still a reliable 3 shotting light class with the possibility of it being a 2-shot. On top of the fact that it can still pick off low-health targets reliably, at any range, and the weapon is honestly fine. In fact, I would say that the only thing that changed for Spy is that you can no longer take down the overheal off of targets as great as a sniper can.
The Ambie is a *very* reliable killer of light classes, if you aren't shit.
Like Teal apparently is.
That heavy blocking you from destroying the sentry that's the true mvp
You probably explained the Classic in depth, faster, and much better than any dedicated videos to the Classic I've seen. Hats off.
That's exactly what has annoyed me about the Ambassador nerf: the Diamondback was left untouched
It's also noted that the blog-post "Balance Changes" on June 20,2017 explains they tried to get people use YER more:
"This is the least-used Spy knife (technically, the reskin [Wanga Prick] is, but anyway...). While silent-kill and rapid-disguise-on-kill are good, the downside on this knife is extreme. "
YER biggest hindsight is that The Jungle Inferno nerfed disguises in the same update. Every second uncloaked in disguise, your location and current disguise is given out to anyone spawning in the opposing team. These changes must have been probably worked on by 2 different people with different goals.
It's also a problem if you utilize the free spawn disguise: friendly players popping in vision inside enemy spawn just aren't a thing, forcing you to use cloak beginning from spawn. The only major drawback of not being able to disguise manually was that you couldn't disguise as your own team member which is not very common thing to do anyway.
Considering how well the liberty launcher pairs up with soldier's shotguns, I'd say the fact that the rockets are weaker is very much by design, since it trades off burst damage for DPS through comboing
Well you can just combo with stock, the liberty has nothing encouraging combos, it would be cool if it had a switch speed buff but it doesn't and never will because valve will valve
problem with the combo idea is that it inherently discards the "extra rocket in clip" advantage, which at that point, just use stock.
If you aren't dumping the full load like the airstrike, what was even the point of using the LL?
Since the LL does less damage it also does less knockback so it’s worse at juggling than stock (and no one uses the reserve shooter for combos lol). Also its higher clip size doesn’t mean anything when you need 5 rockets to kill a single heavy anyway. The LL used to be a simple crutch weapon but valve just tacked on random upsides with no real direction and turned it into a monstrosity that isn’t good at anything. The direct hit shoots faster rockets and makes better use of them with its high damage allowing it to one shot light classes, and the gunboats reduces more damage from rocket jumps and doesn’t make soldier sacrifice his best damage dealing weapon. What is the actual point of the LL.
@@4lksk363 can't deny that the LL is just a smorgasboard of stats, but I feel like it sort of "fails" its way into its own niche as a utility rocket launcher, as you can bomb for as little as 20 health while still keeping your shotgun / banner (plus, you get a rocket half as fast as the Direct Hit while keeping the stock blast radius)
Assuming you can hit your mark at mid range, a LL rocket will usually deal between 55-65 damage
and if you aim for the ground and get at least some upward knockback, the RS can reliably deal between 80 and 120 damage with the minicrit and a 20% faster deploy
In the worst case scenario that's still a reliable two-hit on light classes in less time than two stock rockets, think of it as a pyro combo on soldier
Shotguns are very overlooked. People that have gotten familiar with tf2 will never use shotguns, which I have done too ashamedly. Soldiers will equip gunboats or banners even if they don't use them
Especially the Panic Attack. It’s a nice combo with the Black Box since it kinda makes up for the one less rocket with how quickly you pull it out
Does “using the Conch regen in place of Gunboats” count as using a banner I’ve equipped? I dunno, I just prefer potentially healing all my self damage back to just taking less of it.
Guess it wouldn’t matter anyway, since I do occasionally use the banner actively too. Occasionally not because I forget, but because I don’t always live long enough to get the banner to begin with.
I use my festive shotgun as a soldier and people occasionally send me hate mail when they die to it. It's kinda funny that they call me tryhard for it, when I don't know how to even rocket jump properly.
I was a demo main because demo can dish out tons of damage and kill anybody so long he hit his shots.
Even overhealed heavies
But with soldier its not as easy cause fighting a heavy especially overhealed makes it tough to kill before he miniguns you down
That was until i discovered the beggars bazooka panic attack(or shotgun) combo
Just load all the rockets , hit him with em and finish him off with rapid shotgun switch
Acting is the spys strongest weapon.
I mean as like looking at your team shortly before an engagement, or checking if as spy is behind you with the heavy disguise?
The funny thing is that the liberty launcher also makes a good escape tool for when stuff starts looking bad. Less damage done in blast jumps means you can pull off some cheeky escapes, while still having your second slot not occupied by metal boots.
Course, that situation may not have been so bad if you had more damage to get those kills with, but its dependent on the scenario. If you see a freshly respawned team on the way and think 'crap, i can't handle this', the extra health saved may make the difference between regrouping with your team or seeing the respawn timer ticking down.
Weird idea, but what if all sniper rifles could only crit on full charge and any rifles with a damage penalty lost that penalty. That way sniper finally gets balanced. Just a thought
Honestly, if the other rifles required full charge to headshot but also had the charging while unstopped stat, Sniper would actually be kinda fun to play, at least for me
I think I just like the Hunstman too much though or just really hate tunnel vision
As much as i hate being one-shotted, i feel like it would be too much of a downside
that would ruin sniper, and although it would be funny, overall it would not be a good thing
@@Anshhhhhhhhhk what about only being able to crit when you have over 50% charge
Weapons ruined by one stat have always seemed like a strange case to me
If you like how a weapon looks but don't like how it works, it's nice to have another option to choose from.
16:08 if it did so much damage, use the goddamn diamondback. It gives you crits for doing what spy's main job is - backstabbing and sapping - basically meaning that an ACTUALLY good player (an ACTUAL pro who focuses on the objective and their team, not a murder-hobo) will get so many crits that they effectively have a better ambi.
Literally all the Classic needs is the ability to be able to fire it in the air. That's it.
As someone with a Collector's Classic, not being able to fire in midair completely ruins it, since you cannot even fire it in the water. I love this gun, and being able to fire it midair would let me be able to challenge soldiers
I hope you talk about the Beggar's Bazooka eventually, it's a really fun weapon. I'd almost say the projectile deviation ruins it, but the ambush capabilities of it make it pretty underrated in PvP imo. And then it's also the MvM meta so it's not totally forgotten.
Beggars is a solid side grade and all of its downsides are necessary or else it would be incredibly broken. Only real thing the projectile deviation hurts is hitting air shots but it’s still possible with the BB anyways.
Beggars actually is quite strong and deviation is one thing that prevent it from being broken. For instance, beggar allows you to have continuous fire that is just a bit slower than rocket launcher but faster than reloading one rocket and immediate firming it, which mean you can literally spam your enemy with 20 rocket barrage. Another thing which is overloading mechanic is just amazing. You can use it to "rocket" jumping and bombing at the same time. You can literally close the range to your target and bomb him with rapid fire of your 2 rockets that left.
It is one of the most skillful rocket launcher in game, not by landing shot on enemy, but how to utilize all the mechanics it works with. Which kinda makes it a high risk high reward weapon
the saddest part is the YER was given the cloak drain penalty because you could use the gun mettle dropped weapons mechanic to disguise for free, so they wanted to give it a proper downside that couldn't be exploited around. On a weapon that was barely usable even with that exploit mitingating it's only downside sometimes.
YER should have a mechanic that makes the victim unable to comunicate to his team for a few seconds after he gets killed, because YER its supposed to be a silent asassin tool for the stats that it has, but the enemy can always use the chat in any moment to reveal the spy, and with the disguise and cloak nerfs that gets even worst. The enemy should be punished for not locating the spy and get fooled by him, and the spy should be awarded for succesfully get in the enemy lines and take his kill, so if the spy can achieve that he could get at least have the chance to get away alive or try to take another kill, and not being suddenly ambushed by 3 pyros because his victim has a microphone and fingers
3:41 Remember kids: Taunting after a kill is always morally justified against a vac medic.
Hmm. The Classic is something I’d disregarded for the usual reasons (tried it once, it felt terrible, then everyone kept saying it was terrible), but even with the stat that ruins it, your rundown has me thinking. Already as a sniper, I tend to charge up shots waiting for people, and often get caught out because of the scope (I do try to stay aware of my surroundings, but that just makes me more aware of how the scope gets in my way). And I had a Harvest game somewhat recently where I got a surprising amount of mileage out of no-scope shots, at least in that I somehow managed to land them. Doubt I’d ever switch to the Classic full time, but it might be worth trying it.
Funny thing for me is, the “one stat that ruins it” wouldn’t even be the problem stat for me. I’ve mentioned this on previous Subcategories videos: I’m such a bad sniper that I’m just working on hitting people at all, forget headshots. And I believe you said the Classic does less body shot damage.
Honestly, I don't see any reason for the less damage on bodyshot stat. No headshots till charged makes sense, especially for the classic, but that other stat makes absolutely no sense to me.
The Liberty Launcher would be a great weapon if it fired rockets instead of pillows.
6:18 big respect for using Nightwish as music, been a fan of that band since 4yo
Sticky Jumper and Rocket Jumper:
*Whistling in the background*
“And these positive stats can honestly be a bit of a curse in disguise.”
A curse _in disguise?_ There is no way that wasn’t intentional.
19:28
Fun fact: The woman engraved in the barrel is Scoutma.
To be honest, The YER is my favorite knife. the silent kill is so useful, and it great for dealing with engies. my load out is Dimond back, YER, and the cloak and dagger. the YER's cloak drain does make the Cloak and daggers cloak really short, but becuase you can stand still to regain charge, you can just wait and manually disguise while staying invisible the whole time.
also, if you stab someone who's being healed, the medics beam auto jumps to you.
You really undersold the power of the YER’s Silent Killer. This is perhaps one of the greatest stats on any unlock Spy has. Audio, the thing that almost always sells you out when going for chainstabs, becomes near impossible for the enemy team to utilize. A giant fucking instant deathscream gets replaced by a greatly delayed and likely frantic “SHXPHHSSPYMESPMYESPYSNIPER” that takes significantly more time to actually process and utilize in the heat of a battle. In effect, this buys you untold seconds to keep stabbing or to get away, in a manner far more consistent against good players than trying to jankstab them with the kunai ever will be. The problems you listed can certainly be troublesome, but I find that solid cloak management fundamentals and acting ability can really take this knife above and beyond anything else even the most unwashed of trickstabbing one-tricks can pull off.
23:25 the way he jumps makes me cry
I like the liberty launcher as a trolldier option. gunboats plus liberty launcher means you take no real damage from jumps so you can hop and garden to your heart's content. while still actually having a weapon when you need it.
I feel like a good downside to switch out for the YER would be a damage vulnerably increase instead of faster cloak drain. That way once you get into the spot that the weapon works best at, then it also becomes a bit more skill needed as if your caught even with the silent kills and insta disguises, you're punished for it then, and not punished for trying to get into the spot in the first place
also the cloak on disguise being changed to 50% instead of the full bar, to give some extra leeway with getting into the spot, without completely removing the downside thats intended to make you play the weapon smart (that being that you shouldn't get free disguises and perfect position on kill and be able to freely disguise everywhere as well)
if i were to rebalance the liberty launcher i would do something along the lines of giving it more knockback and make it charge banners faster so that it is equal to or better than stock in those regards. you could also give it slightly more damage and switch speed but i feel that would be much too many stats so probably just the first 3.
For me the classic has always been my go to when I wanna mess around with some friends since it can be(for me at least ) a weapon I know can be in both the back and frontlines comfortably without any drawbacks or disadvantages especially when paired with the smg
According to a promotional magazine from 2006, the Spy being able to instantly disguise with the eternal reward was actually originaly going to be a feature of the stock loadout. We also learned about the inciendary rockets for Pyro there as well.
I wasnt expecting you to quote Big Top Burger but it was a welcome suprise
It would be kinda cool if the YER gave you clock on backstab, like the big earner
YER got me an ubercharged chainstab from the enemy medic... poor bastard couldnt comprehend what was happening...
I am a YER/Dead Ringer spy, because... yes.
You must be either new to the game or incredibly stupid to actually use YER and the dead ringer together, you lose your ability to disguise and your ability to go invisible why even taking Spy at this point?
I have no idea how few people know this, but the ambassador on release MINI CRIT on headshot, but it was changed shortly after its release
I think the ambassador is still good, it’s basically trading consistent damage overtime with high burst damage and the old strategy of hiding in a corner to headshot people across the map was not the core strength of the gun, you’re not using any other revolver (except the diamond back) that way, even if the it doesn’t have the utility of the l’tranger I think it’s good alternative to the stock (if you can hit your headshots which is easy with some practice).
Also I think diamond back doesn’t overshadow the ambassador because the only reason you’re bringing your gun out is if you miss a stab or getting caught before you get a chance to sap a building or stab someone which you have to be close to your opponent for it to happen which invalidates the headshot damage fall of.
The jungle inferno rework for the YER was meant to make it easier to use but was ultimately a direct nerf, it's a weapon about being sneaky that makes it harder to sneak via weaker cloak use
Classic is just fun to mess with, charging while going around a corner just to hit whoever you can find. My personal use for it is against second scoping snipers, makes them scope first or just get gibbed, with the unscope charge giving more visibility to find em.
YER+Cloak'n'dagger is actually a synergy. you can disguise while cloaked, provided you're stationary and out-of-the-way. Picture the roof above the point on Suijin
6:02 you didn't have to bully your spy like that😭
The Classic, as someone who's been wanting to get into TF2 and played a ton of Splatoon, sounds like the Charger class from that game. Charge up a shot for a long range one shot kill, but less damage on a shot that's not at full charge.
5:09
Now that was a close shave.
liberty launcher is underrated. that extra rocket and increased rocket speed really do work for me
when i was just starting to play the game back in 2015-2016 i remember thinking the bazaar bargain was a straight downgrade to the stock sniper rifle bc it only had red and white text in its stats, and at the time I thought the white text meant nothing, so no blue text = bad weapon
26:00 that heavy is a true hero
Amby rebalance idea:
Return back to base BUT , Headshots only count if you are disguised.
- Shots are LOUD ,
- Skill is still rewarded and less " random" with falloff (no need to read distance all the time)
Now you ....make yourself known ...... as an ambassador while trading in your stealth for surprise damage.
This emphasises spys gameplay loop : Get in , pick, get out.
If you try and overdo it like before the nerf you will die FAST, as you are easily seen and tracked throughout the map and since it is still slow to fire you cant kill 3 or 4 people at once
I think those weapons would be better if:
- The Classic: Needs either full or at least half charge to headshot on no-scope only. (Also adding a hud meter to allow the player to see the charge when not scoping.)
- Your Eternal Reward: Remove the increased drain.
- The Ambassador: Remove the damage falloff, keep the range limit. If it still OP, either reduce the range or decrease the fire rate.
- The Liberty Launcher: Maybe a longer damage falloff threshold? Or Teal Opal's suggestion.
21:21 the axtinguisher and the power Jack are absolutely better than the liberty launcher bro.
If I’ve got a particularly nasty sentry nest either in need of breaching or over watching the enemy base of fire, the YER is my go to knife. It’s stats hurt but I still find it so satisfying to get off such nasty chain stabs with it.
Golden frying pan at 25:52
I feel people overstate the impact of the Ambassador nerf as a final killing blow to the Ambassador being good. Yes, it's outclassed by the Diamondback, but it still can be used effectively.
It's no longer the rapid fire crit machine, but instead is an revolver requiring patience for the ability to two tap at mid range.
If you try using it like you would the Diamondback, you will not land your crits due to random bullet deviation. But if you reload after every shot, you'll be able to consistently recenter your revolver for the next crit.
I think the dismondback’s stored crits should be changed to stored minicrits.
This still gives spy a extra damage boost as an award for doing their job but it isn’t as broken as getting full crits as an award.
no
@@unaincreibleroca3427 if you ain't got any actual input then you can shut up.
@@Boomrainbownuke9608minicrits on a gun with a 15% damage penalty make it do barely anymore damage than stock.
Congrats, we now have a worse enforcer.
@@Inserting-a-Perfect-Username that is unless you lower or remove the damage penalty.
@@Boomrainbownuke9608And then the Diamondback has no actual downside now.
Should probably give it a -50% clip size then if the damage penalty’s getting removed.
Tbh Your Eternal Reward just needs the cloak drain to be removed for it to really help put it as viable, when using the knife at the moment makes it where you can only use one loadout to make it work
The Ambassador wasn't even complained about until Jungle Inferno hardly at all. It was very rare to encounter a spy capable of using it on a moving target and it added to the spy's skill ceiling. Now post-jungle inferno people decided it was suddenly a good thing that it was nerfed, though over the years the community has backtracked on this sudden change of position. To little too late though I suppose. Now spy's really only got three options for revolver, none of them really skill dependent and the overall skill ceiling of spy is much much lower.
Being able to do a headshot in any range as a SPY is just horrible especially since you already have a way to instantly kill anyone from behind
And just because nobody complained about it doesn't mean it didn't suck like hell look at random crits
@@LamerGuy People like you only thought it was horrible or unfair after Valve decided to butcher the weapon with their mangled MYM update.
@@ReshyShira it wasn't unfair to the extent of the old wrangler but it definitely deserved the nerf
yo opal I think if u ever run out of ideas reviewing the weapon sets and they synergies (or lack) would be a rly cool video for your style and it would still be multi weapons per video
I think in order to mitigate the downside to the Liberty Launcher, it should do more damage after rocket-jumping and have less or no damage falloff from long distances to facilitate the faster projectile speed and encourage distance fighting while still having overall less damage.
The Classic should mini-crit on headshot when not fully charged. That's 63 damage on a tap fire and up to about 180-200 right before you hit full charge and will just crit normally. Since the rifle already doesn't have ramp-up or fall-off, this is effectively just a 40% damage bonus if you manage to hit the headshot before getting fully charged, compared the the Classic we have now.
For the YER, I have two suggestions. First, the cloak drain rate should be changed to a cloak recharge rate. Then, manually disguising should still require a full cloak to do but it should not consume your cloak. This would change the dynamic between the YER and the different cloak watches. The Dead Ringer would be more useable but would have more downtime even if you make it out with a disguise, the Cloak and Dagger could go father but would need to stay put for longer as well, and the stock watch would largely just be a straight upgrade as the added cloak duration would allow you to get to an ammo box to skip the recharge.
The Ambassador is a tricky one; its massive range really made it stupid good back in the day so I'm not going to touch that. Instead I'd like to propose a meter that builds up over time that increases the weapon's headshot damage by up to 50%. However, shooting immediately drains the meter completely and taking damage drains it considerably. This would make the weapon great for instantly picking off important target from range, being able to deal 153 damage on a headshot, but only if the spy has gone unnoticed.
Now, the Liberty Launcher...Honestly, as stated in the video, this isn't that bad of a weapon. One thing I think would be nice for the weapon is increased knockback. I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure the reduced damage of the weapon also reduces how much knockback it applies to enemies. So, applying a compensation knockback bonus would be nice and could prove very potent with the Reserve Shooter.
I'm a very shotgun reliant soldier who generally plays on the front line or close on flanks, and the liberty launcher is unfathomably stupid. It gives me the mobility to manage the flank with one of the most devastating 1v1 capabilities when combined with the panic attack. Without a pocket medic, it's pretty much your best option for managing flank because you have the mobility to contest boots soldiers and can easily make up for your lack of damage with your insane ability to stay in prolonged fights. The lack of damage is easily made up for by its ability to stay in a fight for so much longer.
20:54 an Airstrike is literally liberty launcher, but with much better positives for less negatives
Instead of liberty launcher, I feel more strongly about the cow mangler.
It's a stock rocket launcher with no ammo issues, but a fun alt fire mode that's more meme than good, but that "only 20% damage to buildings" really kill all usage in pubs even with the building disable.
15:00 OBJECTION!
SAHARAN DESERT SET SPY
ENOUGH SAID
I got an idea for the classic to buff it that would make it a LOT better and still have downsides: combine it with the bazaar bargain. You might need to do some number tweaking, but it would be perfect. You get slower charge on top of it not being able to headshot without full charge, but once you get some kills, you get faster charge. This will make it much faster to reach full charge, giving you a reasonable snowball weapon(unlike the bazaar bargain)
I do not play soldier and like the liberty launcher where it's at sure it may not be the strongest weapon but it seems balanced on paper and what makes it lacking is in practice there is no time where it cannot be out classed in which I would say is that much different from the rocket jumper? I highly doubt the rocket jumper being more useful alone than the liberty launcher alone. I think the liberty launcher is fine being relegated to meme status for those who want to maybe get something out of combos or to maximize rocket jumping while still having access to damage without using the gun boats. I could see people use it with the panic attack for their dives.
I NEVER THOUGHT THAT THE THING WOULD EVER BE MENTIONED, LET ALONE IN A TF2 VIDEO
Nitpick - "spy me" is a useless callout in pub.
It's useless because of the simple question: Who are you?
In comp that might not be a problem. In casuals game it is a thing.
The most important peace of info for calling out a spy is class disguise.
I like to say "spy as me as soldy" for example.
So teammates know to look for a soldier with my name. Which they'd know my name because they read my callout.
Even if you only call out the disguise, it's more useful to know to look out for a soldier than to look out for Bob, whom you know nothing about.
Hot take the ambassador is perfectly fine as is if the diamond back didn't exist
I honestly think that the YER consuming cloak when you disguise manually should be reverted.
You DID NOT call the ambassador a bad weapon.
Take away the ability to two-shot people from far away and the thing suddenly sucks now, even though it can still output very good damage up close
he didnt say it was bad he said it was ruined by one stat and at the end he said most of the weapons in the video are mediocre.
@@monkeeboy830 the ambassador isn't even close to being mediocre still.
@@CH4RL3S_69 i would say it is compared to other weaons in his kit, compararitbly you don't get much for how much skill it takes.
I'm of the opinion that the Classic needs one change to be usable.
You still can't crit unless fully charged, but headshots at any charge other than full will minicrit.
The reserve shooter is actually just straight up worse than the regular shotty with the liberty launcher as one of the downsides to it's lower damage means people get juggled lower and less often. The banner or just gunboats for almost no self damage is much better to run imo. It's so hard to use when you jump a medic and then rocket him 3 times and he walks away laughing while you get mowed down. The time to kill is much more of a hinderance than just the lower damage. It just compounds everything about it with one downside.
ie this is a thing from TF Classic, The Classic Sniper Rifle can also slow down enemies with body shots to the legs, let that sink in for just a second.
7:51 Bigtop burger reference!! Yippee :D
YER's upsides don't mean shit when enemy hits u and types "spy as me using YER". That's why I think that enemies screaming and so on is stupid.
People never spycheck and don't turn around, so none of these things matter.
POV: you're healing a heavy, suddenly a spy pops up, you hit Spy! keybind, stop healing heavy and pull out your ubersaw, you hit the spy but it's not a crit so heavy dies.
6:30 this should be in "moments before disaster" compilation.
My fix for the liberty launcher:
Increase it's knockback so you can use it with the reserve shooter more effectively and maybe increase it's max base damage to 70 so you can 1 shot kunai spies.
As someone who remembers the Your Eternal Reward pre cloak for disguise trade off and cloak consumption please do mention weapons throughout the patches if you were around.
Back in the day you started without any disguise possibility until you killed someone but without losing so much cloak iirc.
everyone knows that the worst statbin the game is...
"No Random Critical Hits"
I'm shocked the Red Tape Recorder wasn't on here.
It's actually pretty useful against mini sentries and when the enemy pyro is using the homewrecker. And it really pisses off engineers.
It does useful stuff when there are 99 engies on last.
You wont destroy their stuff but they have to upgrade back to max wasting ammo and most importantly shifting their full focus on turtling the sentry making your team have a window to find the sentry unnattended and gun it down
As an old head 2010 tf2 player, i wanted to note some things.
The current YER is the buffed version, it used to just not let you disguise at all and was also incredibly underused as a result. I was glad to hear about the buff but why they decided to kneecap it by also introducing the faster cloak drain makes no sense. Even if it only ate half your cloak to disguise and had no other downsides, (and disabled your ability to chat for 10 sec)i think it'd still be less powerful than the other knives but at least useable and much more fun.
The ambassador change needed to happen, I'm sad it got over-nerfed, but having spy be a better sniper than sniper, who didn't need to scope in or lose move speed, could get into strange positions, even behind your team, didn't have a laser sight and could invis out as soon as he got a shot would have been awful. Having the first shot be a headshot won't fix anything bc spys already would reload between every shot bc that helped time when the next headshot was ready. Maybe if it was the last shot of the clip, but remove the firing rate penalty and give it a reload speed reduction to make the spy vulnerable after getting his headshot. I'd say having the damage falloff is fine too, it just needs to be less harsh and only apply at far ranges so aggro gunspy worked but not sniperspy.
Also bring back the old letrange stats where you shot people to get cloak, it eas way more fun that way.
*Was incredibly awful and people were more angry at spy at the time than sniper. You do not want it reverted
Oh and i forgot one more thing, the diamondback wasn't just untouched, it was buffed at the same time as the ambassador nerf, when it came out it only gave crits on successful building saps, which meant it was a boring and useless weapon. I'm glad the buff gave it a more reliable way to get a damage boost that enourages getting stabs and enables a nice aggressive hybrid style, but it def needs to get brought down and only do minicrits or have a big base damage nerf
the worst part about the liberty launcher is that its in the same item set as the reserve shooter.
it can't get people up in the air as effectively or for as long as other rocket launchers because of its damage penalty since knockback scales with damage. its just sad.
To be fair about the Amby, it was also perceived and joked about in the community as being comically overused by every Spy main in existence to the point where its alternatives (yes, even the Diamondback) were overlooked because they _simply weren't the Ambassador._ Was the nerf warranted? I dunno, I don't play Spy, but from what I can tell it's still fairly effective if you've got good aim, it's just not diet Sniper anymore, which was absolutely the intention of the nerf as stated by Valve in the Jungle Inferno patchnotes. The Diamondback probably could use a nerf, though, but it does at least encourage actually playing the class well. The Dead Ringer absolutely needed to be nerfed, though, no question.
Thank you for the bigtop burger reference
was not expecting a Bigtop Burger reference there!
I feel that with the ambassador, I remember being a baby child and playing TF2 and seeing people use it and wanting to use it myself, and because of that feeling I still wanna use it despite its obvious downsides.