Critically Misused: Elder Elementals
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Welcome to Critically Misused, where we discuss potentially misused aspects of Dungeons and Dragons fifth edition. This episode, we will be covering Elder Elementals, as requested by commenter Yellow and Pink.
I have been expecting this one, thank you! I have a lot of thoughts on this video, so I’ll go elemental after elemental.
The Phoenix has always been my least favorite of the bunch, and I never seriously considered using it in my games (especially considering the Elder Tempest also fills the niche of flying destruction), but now I realize that I had completely misunderstood the point of the Phoenix. I had never considered the fact that it is the perfect immortal monster and basically impossible to get rid of, and as such that its role was most likely the one of an everlasting threat to the world that can only be stopped while it’s at its most powerful. It’s still my least favorite Elder Elemental, but I actually really like it now (also, the image of a Gargantuan bird made of fire that casually slides in from under a door is something I had never considered, and absolutely hilarious).
I basically have always thought about the Zaratan as the most efficient way to destroy a city (which is exactly what I wanted from it, no complaints there), but I was always hesitant to use it as its Thunder vulnerability could mean it had to lock itself in place and do nothing but regenerate or die if faced with a well prepared spellcaster, but it’s only when you mentioned its movement speed that I realized that it could literally just run away in one such situation (40 ft. speed + 3 Move legendary actions for a total of 160 ft. in a single round, not accounting for potential Dash). With that, I’ll feel a lot more comfortable with using it.
I think you calling the Leviathan disappointing is justified, since it’s most powerful ability is useless on land, but it’s land speed is equal to the Zaratan (even accounting for legendary actions), so even outside of its natural environment, it’s still at least decent. Regardless, I wouldn’t have a Leviathan leave the water, unless my party really annoyed me that day, but I fully understand it’s only one amongst many aquatic destroyers, and as such that it isn’t always the most appropriate thing to throw at players.
I have nothing to add about the Elder Tempest. I also think it’s the best of the bunch, and I’m planning to throw one at my party eventually (not as a boss, more as an unlikely “ally” against a Topaz Greatwyrm).
Overall, excellent video! It really changed my mind on the Phoenix and Zaratan, and gave me a few ideas for future campaigns I’ll DM for. In the end, I might have actually been one of the people that misused the Elder Elementals (though not critically I hope), but I’ll make sure it won’t happen again.
Once again, thank you so much for making this video! It truly was worth the wait!
No problem. I didn't know much about these monsters from the start, so I waited to cover them until I knew how I was going to do it. Once I realized they were being misused like the Tarrasque, I knew exactly how to cover them.
The running away strategy also works wonderfully for the Zaratan, since its movement alone does tons of damage.
They removed Thunder vulnerability from zaratan in monsters of the multiverse
You can break cities now
@@lyebatenkaitosofgluttony2452 I really should get Monsters of the Multiverse, I’m starting to feel like I’m missing out. Honestly, I’d keep the Zaratan’s Thunder vulnerability, just to make it a bit more fair for my players, but the loss of the vulnerability really helps it feel like a true living disaster.
@@yellowandpink1199 they're level 20 or near it
If they can optimize their characters even halfway decently, It's fair without the vulnerability
Unless they're facing off against this thing much lower than they should be, in which case you're probably intentionally tpking them or not intending for them to fight it, the vulnerability is just a cheese
@@lyebatenkaitosofgluttony2452 I have a handful of homebrewed rules at my table that make my players a lot more powerful than they should normally be for their level, and I give away lots of magic items. The whole thing is basically designed so that I can throw very high level challenges at them without too much risk of death.
I really don’t see the damage vulnerability as a problem, as I prefer to use such ridiculously high CR monsters as threats to the world/area rather than threats to my players, so the idea would be that some of my players would help the victims of the Zaratan’s destruction while some would actually fight it. In the end, the win conditions for such an encounter wouldn’t be for the party to survive, but to make it so as little damage would be done to wherever the Zaratan would emerge. If my players played very well, they would probably be able to destroy the Zaratan before any damage is done by it, but only assuming they would actually know about its Thunder vulnerability, which isn’t guaranteed.
In a situation where the Zaratan suffered massive damage fairly quickly, I would make it move as much as it can to either cause massive amounts of destruction, or to get it closer to its target (I’m assuming a settlement). In any case, I think it would be a fair situation at my table for characters level 15 and up, though I really wouldn’t recommend such an encounter before level 18 at least using the normal rules.
In my game there's an ancient red dragon: the phoenix queen. She took that title by eating a phoenix. Now she has near limitless elemental power(, is driven insane by an angry immortal elemental spirit coursing though her veins) and has the greatest last laugh: if you kill her you unleash a phoenix on your world.
Here's something I want to add to the phoenix too: it's not a bird that's on fire, it's a fire taking the shape of a bird. If the phoenix flies over a town and the church tower is in the way that will not stop it, nor will the phoenix knock it over. The fire will simply flow though every hole filling the insides with fire as it flies though the tower as if it's a burning ghost, except that's done by just part of its wing. If it flies lower its just a wildfire moving though entire city blocks in seconds. Within minutes the largests capitals in the world would turn into raging infernos, and nothing can stop it.
I'm surprised that WotC didn't make a Warlock whose Patron is one of the Elder Elementals, or even a Sorcerer whose magic come from one of the Elemental Planes.
For the warlock, I can imagine it would have overlapped a bit too much with Genies. The sorcerer would be a cool idea though
For warlocks there is technically the genie but not really, and there is an elemental air sorcerer and we’re supposed to be one of each element but the other 3 never made it through Playtest, if you want they are stone water and Phoenix respectively and they are decently balanced
Eh-
I'd allow it!
To be totally honest, the Elder elementals are a bit too dumb to make a pact with anyone. Like, warlocks get their power from a pact, but how do you make a pact with a being whose intelligence score is two and has no languages?
I mean aside from slapping a headband of intellect on one which would be hilarious tbh
@@lyebatenkaitosofgluttony2452 well I was thinking that it's more like how you can make unintentional pacts with a Patron where even the Patron doesn't realize a pact was made. The Warlock just came into contact with the presence of the Patron and it formed the bond between them, such as a survivor who was at the origin summoning point of the Elder Elemental.
Perhaps if a permanent gate to the plane of water is created, a campaign revolving around the leviathan could be very interesting, where every day, the water level rises in the world and the leviathan is able to devastate more and more areas until the party either closes the gate, finds a way to banish the leviathan, or some other way to defeat it.
I feel like that all 4 of these elder elementals are living disasters. The Phenoix is a living firestorm/wildfire. The Leviathan is a living title wave. The Tempest is a living Hurricane. Etc etc.
It would be awesome to have a campaign where you have to defeat them all.
I feel as though leviathan works best if you never make it leave the water. So one of the best ways to run it rather than have it come to land is have it drowning cities and flooding in itself. Giant tidal waves and all.
This video is a godsend. I have been considering a storyline where Elementals are used as weapons of mass destruction and this video is helping me polish the idea a lot better
Glad I could help!
Another great video! The thing that makes these monsters so great is their simplicity. They only want to destroy and aren't easy to goad into sticking around. They also fit very well into nearly any setting.
I'd you're talking about misused party killers, maybe the Hydra is a good place to go next. For mishandled lore, maybe the Kuo-Toa?
I'll look into them, for sure. Kuo-Toa are more underused than misused, though
This series is very fun! Its great to see more content about the monters that never get to appear in common campaigns. I was once going to have my players fight a elder tempest. Good they dodged that bullet. 😂
I wrote a lvl 2 to 20 adventure where my players are after psycho who's trying to get power of ancient elementals for himself to reshape the world, so they travel all elemental planes, it was 3 Years of great campaign
I absolutely love these things
They're so much fun
Oh god these lads. Yeah, I'm very sad the Elementals as a concept are so underused. Although there's some very cool ones out there.
Talking specifically about the Elders, though, I feel it might've been cool to give them specific detriments, or bonuses, were they to be in their native plane or in a place with sufficient relation to that plane, like the Leviathan being so good in the sea but lacking on the underground, air and land, although it is hard to balance knowing that the sea is also, quite undeveloped in 5e.
I see zero love for Morkoth, so maybe that could be a video?
The Tarrasque isn't indestructible? I suppose you are correct, but the only way to kill it permanently is a Wish spell. The Elder Elementals are killable that way too, but I'm pretty sure you can take out most of them without having to resort to that.
Oh and with the Tarrasque, you have to reduce it to 0 Hp first, then use your wish to disable the regeneration. It's not like you can just wish it dead, and expect it to stay that way
All that was taken out of fifth edition, sadly. Many people in my Tarrasque video were quick to note that
hey i really love your videos but please make the volume a bit higher!! i can't hear you sometimes even when its in max volume y_y
Thank you and I'm working on it
@@thegayerest i really appreciate it!! i mean it!!
Awesome. I want my players to have to fight all of them, because they accidentally unleashed them and have to go kill them all.
You missed Xixecal the walking Ice Mountain, CR22.
Not in 5e yet. The one you are probably thinking of is a homebrew by Dungeon Dad
@@thegayerest Yeah, but it was based on a previous edition (3.5e?), it was his 5e update spec. Didn't realise you were keeping strictly to 5e, my bad, love your content.
@@Natsirt666 No prob. I pepper in a few 3e and 3.5 monsters, but my focus is on the current edition right now
Why is it always destruction? You would think that the elementals would have a lot more nuanced to them especially the elders.
Basically, they don't want to be in the Material Plane. They have no way of knowing how they got there, and they aren't intelligent enough to figure out how to get back. All they can really do is smash stuff
@@thegayerest they’re almost like children who were ripped from their parents screaming and crying until they can get back home
@@claytonwilde5750 Excellent metaphor!
Don't think of elder like the myth that older people know more. Think of it like how older things are often bigger. The phoenix is not the leader of fire elementals, it's the burning of London compared to a housefire.
make them into respawning raid bosses to farm and grind into for crafting material for apocalitic armor and weapon sets
once they full craft and upgrade greter elemental gear move to the next big thing
the grind never ends
the loot always flows
there is always a bigger fish, and you always need a bugger fishing rod
We don't do that here
Thega, can you do a video on vegapygmies?
I'll add that to my list
elder elementals....eh I rather retune the Espers/Edolions from FF into elder elementals...or the digimon that these 4 are roughly based off of...if I was to use them I'd think they would make great guardians of the world, then again you kinda said that, Zaratan makes a great god of the world tortoises.
Can you do goku