The Problem With Metalcore...
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- I challenge The Punk Rock MBA aka Finn Mckenty on his thoughts on the current state of metalcore. Subscribe for more honest music reaction / reviews and to discover new music.
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#Metalcore
Kublai Khan, Jesus Piece, Knocked Loose, Dying Wish, and Boundaries are directly from the Hardcore scene which is why they have a more aggressive sound. They all still play DIY hardcore shows, and members of Knocked Loose play in two Hardcore bands Weapon X and Two Witnesses.
My roots are in Hardcore so I agree with most of what Finn says, Metalcore just doesn't have an edge anymore. And the bands that do have an edge are directly from the Hardcore scene and have somehow cut through to gain more popularity. I do agree that Metallic Hardcore is a better way to describe bands like Knocked Loose or Kublai Khan. Some other Hardcore adjacent bands that are playing Metalcore/Metallic Hardcore to check out are Balmora, Foreign Hands, Wristmeetsrazor, Azshara, Year of the Knife, Vamachara, and Momentum.
I do like some of the pop oriented Metalcore like Spiritbox and Bad Omens tho.
Loving this type of content birb hope to see more of this ❤
I just found your channel yesterday, and I´m really enjoying it! Great content man!
I'm 44 and Invent Animate is probably top 3 of my favorite bands right now. They were my top artist last year on Spotify and 3 of my top 5 songs listened to.
I agree with Finn here. But that's because I also have the early 2000s Metalcore background. Growing up with Killswitch Engage, Trivium, As I Lay Dying, Parkway Drive, August Burns Red, All That Remains etc. Chimaira was one of my favorite bands back then, why I appreciate the love for "Pure Hatred" from Finn :D. I feel way more emotions listening to Pure Hatred or the Resurrection album from Chimaira (one of the best metal records of all time if you ask me) than any Invent Animate song. But like you said, that's just personal taste. It's just subjective.
I feel like Finn takes his personal distaste for what is popular and projects it onto the entire genre. There are numerous bands making the exact music he is looking for, and while they may not be as popular as say Spiritbox or even Invent Animate, they are still there.
You can never make something popular just because you subjectively think it is better than what is currently popular. Popularity exists because more people prefer that sound in that moment. He is certainly entitled to his taste in music as everyone is, but things evolve and tastes change, it doesn't mean the genre is now worse just different. I think bringing up the example of False Meridian to counter the point where he used Without a Whisper is a great example of how things change and evolve but the intention and roots can remain the same.
I agree with Finn. An feel what people consider metalcore now. It's more metalpop,metaldjent...etc...
Since there is no hardcore in it
I agree with pretty much all you said Birb. I respect Finn’s perspective and I think it’s fair but maybe a bit too overly cynical. I remember back in the mid 2000s people were also complaining about the over abundance of generic metalcore bands copying the same breakdown patterns and At The Gates riffs. There’s always a small handful of artists who push the genre forward each generation while most of the others try and emulate them.
22:06 there’s a band called One morning Left that mixes metalcore with 80’s synths on their recent output
I think Finn's emotion comment take is less about expressing emotion but more about the direction of the emotion. This is because the emotion in metalcore music among the more prominent bands went more from outward "pissed" core in the noughties to more internalized "vibe/shoegazey" core of late. I think this is a take I heard reflected in the wider music space with modern music going away from chorus-led power pop songs to more vibey songs. And while it is not directly applicable to metalcore, you can kinda see the connection between what he is saying and why that is kind of true.
Seems like people like/ find relatable emotion from different sounds, lyrics, and themes. Omg you brought up human abstract! My friend got his guitar signed by them in a Walmart in Idaho, and I ended up a big fan of them a few years later.
Finn appears to know only one emotion: Anger. Not an angry song? No emotion. Zero empathy.
Im just glad that we evolved away from crabcore/pop punk style shit. I think most of the internet hatred toward modern metalcore is that its too djenty and while that may be true metalcore has also never been more diverse with the industrial, pop, trap and progressive fusions it has now.
Where Finn loses me somewhat is his focus on aesthetic, I've heard him spend a lot of time in videos talking about fashion sense and cultural relevance which don't interest me a lot. I do agree that metalcore has changed and it's like every genre, there are mediocre bands and there are really good ones!
Unless you hate the genre but that's on you.
Regardless of whether individual bands are good or not, far too much modern metalcore has zero connections to hardcore or even early metalcore. Every time I see someone list the best new bands (Spiritbox, Invent Animate, etc.) they're always just alt-metal or prog bands that just so happen to play breakdowns. So when you have bands like that muddying that water of what constitutes "metalcore", yeah, the genre as it currently stands kinda sucks.
I was in high school in the early 2000s and definitely remember metalcore being a subgenre. Emo/screamo were a separate thing.
I agree with this. I feel like the people who don't were probably too new to the scene at the time to have known what was really happening. I also remember the terms fashioncore and girlfriend hardcore being used for the bands they're referencing.
"Its not SCREAMO, ITS POST HARDCORE" - me still being wrong
"It's okay to be sexy"
The actual issue the genre is facing/
There’s two types of fans: One that basically are only interested in what bands from 2007-14 are doing now and then there’s fans who only stick to the uninspired Spiritbox stuff that gets played on hard rock radio in markets large enough to have those stations.
A lot of newer bands don’t stick out. And people are trying to pull a lot from older bands who don’t have the same sound they did in 2010. And you can kind of notice that in tour bookings.
I’m not saying this as a way to be snooty, if I picked out my favorite metalcore albums from the past five years, probably all of them would be from bands who were active during the Warped Tour era.
Hey Birb, content of the video aside, you'd do well to spell check your thumbnail.
It's "battling," not "battiling."
Stuff like that is small ofc, but important if you want your content to be taken seriously.
lol he actually adjusted it! Nice birb! Good vid btw!
Finn ain’t wrong. Metalcore is bland. Having said that EVERY genre goes through this problem of growth and evolution. It’s just metalcores turn. DM, BM, Grind, HM, Thrash, etc. It needs time to mature and push past boundaries.
I can confirm that at least in 02/03, Metalcore was a term, albiet a bran new baby one! Shout to midwest Metalcore circa 03 "Scars will fade"! baby!
Bury Tomorrow emulates the exact sound the early 2000s Metalcore has.
I agree with Finn´s opinion. Most of today´s metalcore is not good. Take a band like Invent Animate. They are putting two litres of ideas into a one litre bottle. The result is that they don´t have any songs, there are no hooks! It´s just music from guitarists for guitarists.
I believe Finn when he says he is a fan of metalcore. I also believe he just says a bunch of divisive things to set off groups to argue in his comment section to get more engagement for the UA-cam algorithm.
Seems like a cool dude though, no shade.
It seems to me like he has more problem with the scene rather than with the actual music
Agree. I love today's metalcore more because of the different sounds it uses, not just the typical "metalcore" or "hardcore" sound - Which would be boring af honestly
I do think its funny that people are trying to rebuttal some of the points that finn is making by saying "well what about XYZ band etc" all whilst those bands have like 1/100th of the plays on Spotify compared to the popular, leading bands in the scene. Kinda proves his point a little. I mean metalcore is so massive that its basically just synonymous with just "metal" at this point. Outside of the rise of nu metal in the past few years (although no new bands popping off, just nostaliagacore) metalcore has been on top for the past 20 years so naturally the sound is just not gonna have any resemblance to the OG bands that started the genre, which in my opinion is a good thing cause a stagnant genre is a dead genre.
One thing I find interesting about Finn's point about not really understanding the metaphorical/symbolic lyrics of modern metalcore is that he's a fan of emo/posthardcore bands like Circa Survive which use a ton of poetic symbolism and metaphors
I see where Finn is coming from, Loath and sleep token aren't exactly my idea of badass music. But there are a ton of underground bands holding it down with legit heavy metalcore like year of the knife and dying wish, etc
Hot damn never been first anywhere before
Wait…you mean in 2024 people on the Internet can have a different opinion, but not scream and yell and fight over it? Impossible!
Seriously though, great breakdown. I like to see different opinions that can respect the other side.
12:43 love Finn but he could not be more wrong. Without A Whisper is one of the most emotional metalcore songs I've heard in a long ass time. The whole Heavener album really. Hot take indeed hahah
He wasn't referring to it as no emotion as in no emotion. He was more reffering to the anger and ready to fight someone type of emotion that metal core is about. Yes without a whisper has emotion but not the type he was referring to.
@@Lancr-jq2or whats silly is that killswitch engage is a band he will reference for good early metalcore but barely has any of that agrressive emotions like you see in madball or hatebreed or similar hardcore
@@Lancr-jq2or But metalcore is not about anger, Hardcore is. I think Finn is mixing different concepts
instead of saying it was emotionless, he could've said it wasn't angry enough for him. I love angry, brutal music too but there is a space for songs like Without a whisper in the scene too.
I think the problem with Finn's opinions is that he doesn't fully think through what he's feeling. Talking about the genre losing its emotion is completely opposite of what actually happened. It's more emotional now than it ever was but that's not what he means, he means the music lost its aggression and sole purpose of making you move. Hardcore, to me, didn't have much emotion other than anger, it was only there to make you want to mosh and punch sheetrock. He has a great point but he doesn't express that point very well, he doesn't exactly say what he means and that comes across the wrong way to most people
The real title is "The problem with UA-camrs saying there is a problem with Metalcore".
Okay there we go, I fixed it. :) Rock on everyone!
Traditional heavy metal, thrash, nu metal etc. were far more appealing & accessible to casual music listeners, than metalcore. Case in point, Metallica songs are readily available on the radio than any metalcore bands, still to this day. 😅
No hate for metalcore, but they need to reinvent & break the wall more often to stay relevant. Maybe like BMTH (Bring Me)?
Japan's metal scene has a lot genre-bending metal bands, generally speaking. They are becoming more popular too.
If you love the music you adapt. I liked metalcore when i was 14 and i love the metal core of 20 years later. Killswitch wiĺl play in playlist then next song will be imminence
this can’t be happening
It was a good one but i must say 2000s Metalcore was much more boring what we get today, there more like different sounds. The 2000s feels like everyone has done the same thing. So today we got much more than that, so i don't can to much agree with him.
And it's kinda funny evyone says aaah the older stuff was better, everytime. In fact only because today the using clean vocals. But actually i love it, more different sounds so yea.
Finn's right and MetalBirb knows it. Not more than a couple of vids. ago, where he said Memphis May Fire was generic. Which they are. So is most metalcore these days. An over abundance of bands stick to a formula. At least in the formative days, the metalcore bands had an unhinged quality to them 👌
I actually agree with you however if you're willing to put in the work then the underground scene might be the best it's ever been if you use stuff like Spotify or Bandcamp to try and discover underground stuff, whatever your tastes are there is probably a band doing exactly what you want to hear, I've been able to discover hundreds of modern bands that are badass, they just aren't popular.
@@lightningmonky7674 Absolutely. Just for clarification, I do have at least a hand-full of modern bands, that I consider just as good as the pioneers.
It's just obvious that these bands are struggling, and maybe disband after 2-3 records, because of the lack of exposure. They don't get to prove their worth like the earlier legacy bands.
He went after my bois in Patient Sixty-Seven, not cool. They slap.
I read the comments and someone said it best: he has a problem with the scene. I talk to/interview hundreds of smaller, local and DIY bands and lemme tell you, there's good music out there if you STOP JUST LISTENING TO THE BIGGER BANDS WITH BIG NUMBERS.
I always laugh when Finn complains about bands not evolving their sound, then complains that metalcore has evolved too much away from Hardcore.
I also grew up in the 90's hardcore scene and love modern metalcore music. The part that I struggle with is live shows, they just aren't the same as seeing EC, Madball, VOD, etc back in the day. Modern metalcore kids don't know how to mosh, and you rarely ever see mic grabs anymore.
Except you don't actually know what Finn thinks at all because you didn't watch the entire video.
@@transient442 He has talked about this in multiple videos.
@@nicklarson801 the genre isn't "evolving" that is the issue. Bands have sounded like this for the past 10 years. Finn is making a comparison between the new and old. And comparing what is good and bad about both. He literally said at the end of the video that the genre should NOT go back.
@@nicklarson801 so if you didn't actually watch the video your opinion on it is invalid
@@transient442 If something evolves enough, it becomes something new entirely...
My problem with Finn's opinion here is that he says "I'm not gatekeeping, but" and then proceeds to gatekeep. Bands just play what they want to play. They are honest about their influences, then FANS and music industry bigwigs "label them" as metalcore. Most bands don't go out and says, lets be specifically this subgenre. Most find a groove and it evolves into who they are, it's usually not intentional. Like Spiritbox, who Finn loves to talk about. Fans labelled them as Prog, djent, and metalcore, then proceeded to get upset when they released songs that weren't those things, when the band have specifically said they don't write songs to a genre, they just do what they want to do. They aren't the only ones, but I have seen some of his content on Spiritbox.
Metalcore is not the same today. Its to much of the same oversaturated sound. Not much originality these days.
Every genre gets inundated with samesy bands with similar tropes. That’s true of modern metalcore as well. But there are definitely bands doing cool stuff, introducing pop, electronic, and hip hop elements to keep it fresh. However even the best modern metalcore bands are tiring me out a bit with the overly slick production. I understand the reasons, but I just prefer the sound of an actual real drum set. I also don’t mind vocal effects to make cool sounds, but I wish I could hear more of the natural singing voice with minor imperfections. But that is a hot take that I do not think modern audiences would agree with me on, so I will let that one go.
The only core element in modern metal core is breakdowns. It is not the same. There are a few. Knocked loose in particular even though they are very different than the big metal core bands who kind of. Defined the genre. There is zero hardcore in modern metal core. It is almost exclusively Linkin Park/Deftones pop metal. I mean. It's just true. R&B is fine but it's not hardcore. It's not metal core. There's no energy in the shows. Knocked loose is an exception. Shows used to be literally dangerous. It was so energetic there was a lot of fucking passion in the scene just like hardcore. The passion is gone. The coomer is in.
there's different kinds of energy. Hardcore has a really bad name for itself and I actually find the energy has improved in metalcore. It's a more positive genre since moving away from hardcore into more of an entry to metal, and that can only be a good thing. Metalheads look out for each other. I remember concerts as a teen, and was just getting into alternative music, and didn't understand how dangerous hardcore was until I saw it. It coloured my feelings on the music, like that it was for violent people who had no empathy, because of the way the fans behave. it's not okay to be that insane because "its the culture". I moved away from that music and more towards metal because of the community. I feel like some bands don't want to be associated with injured fans and that bad rep. I've seen metalcore bands stop a show to help a fan who was stuck or injured. That may seem "soft", but that's a reflection on you, and how callous you are.
I still enjoy metalcore, but I've been listening to this genre for like 19 years and it was my main genre for many years. I'm leaning towards Post-hardcore a lot more now, because I truly feel there are more bands that are experimenting and the diversity is more interesting to me personally. If a band can mix many genres and make it work, it's the best of both worlds. Bands like Johnny Booth, Boundaries, Greyhaven, Norma Jean and many others are really the perfect examples of what I mean.
Metal is better than hardcore.
No it’s not. Hardcore is better, and most Metalcore is more to side of hardcore. Metal is corny.
Nuh uh, metal is better, and hardcore is corny @@ryanbollinger1759
@@ryanbollinger1759you corny
@@ryanbollinger1759how is Bad Omens NOT corny exactly?
If you're talking about all the different types of metal , then yes , but if you're just talking about metalcore , a singular genre. Then no
Invent Animate is probably the best thing that has happened to metalcore like... ever. I think this guy Finn is stuck in the past with that old metalcore sound (which I personally don't like at all). Sleep Token, Invent Animate, Loathe.... All these three bands alone are so much better than the old metalcore imo
If the genres name ends in core, it isnt a metal genre, we metalheads do not accept djent and crabcore in our scene.
nu metal?
@gx1tar1er eh it's not true but at least it shows actually inspiration from metal
I agree so much. He deleted my comment on his video lol. Cause the video doesn't make sense for today imo, this made sense 10 years ago, but I'm 30, I grew up on killswitch as daylight dies and those bands, I only know metalcore's origins of hardcore from Finn, this was never a thing me and my friends ever talked or even cared to think about, the connection to hardcore has been long gone and it's been something else for a while now. I think he has already made this video too, I learned everything from the video from him already lol.
As well, you said exactly what I said too the music of metalcore today I would describe as more broad, proggy, and experimental, I feel like basically anything can be considered metalcore at this point. Bands from killswitch, dying wish, silent planet, invent, bring me, northlane, sleep token, dayseeker, octanecore stuff, you mentioned kublai klan, this can all be considered metalcore. There's like 20 subgenres of metalcore. You can play 2 different metalcore songs and they sound literally like different genres. If you look at the criticisms of metalcore, so many comments will be saying different things are the problem, which the fact there is so much difference with this proves the point.
Also, I just went to see Northlane and Invent live a little bit ago, there were so many more girls that were singing along to everything which I was kinda like wtf, but showing the fans of this are much more than guitar nerds he wants to claim the fans of this music are.
Finn is that “how do ya do fellow kids meme” he tries to act woke & progressive then can’t keep up with current music trends. Quite funny actually
Lol he did a long interview with Blaire White. Very woke to talk friendly with her...
What's your least favorite Finn take?
I def side with the birb on this one
2010 to 2020 was the peak of metalcore . Lately the new gen isnt metalcore any more ..it has lost the hardcore vibe . Hopefully the success of knocked loose and KKTX bring that inspiration back
Most hardcore is horrible. All the bands he says Metalcore should be more like suck.
Metalcore is without a doubt the most uninspired and bankrupt genre within metal. That's not to say there aren't any good bands, there's maybe like.. 5 or so. However that is substatially less than other genres that are similarly same-y, like traditional death metal and black metal. The irony here is that black metal fans have caught on and 'kvlt' is no longer really a thing within the genre, whereas metalcore fans are the most insufferable people I've met so far.
Some smaller bands EVERYONE should check out:
Patient Sixty-Seven
Two Sides of Me
Single Wound
Soulthief
Red Keep
What Lies Below
If Not For Me
DeadSwitch
Take Hold
No Hope X Mankind
Without The Accent
LarcɆnia RoɆ
Fight From Within
Captive State
Suffer the Nine
Of the Fallen
Gone Cold
Phantom Hourglass
Wither the Fallacy
Sails End
HEAVYHEX
As Beings
Shoot on sight
VOIDS
WindWaker
Who They Fear
Varia
Half Heard Voices
Sable Hills
Until I Wake
Once you get into hardcore, metalcore does sound a lot cheesier, and just not as “cool.”
Most people in metalcore bands are def more talented though. I like both genres idk