Your ability to make so many videos out of one topic is truly a talent. I watch & enjoy them all. I look forward to seeing your 1,000th video on the state of nu-metal, 10 years from now
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA personally, I don’t mind genre/topic changes between videos, but I totally understand your predicament due to how the UA-cam algorithm works and that sort of stuff. You’re one of my trusty music UA-camrs to start my mornings off in a good mood.
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA You can do videos about anything that happened within the world of rock between 1978 and 2010. Anything beyond that…we don’t care. In fact, it would be crazy diddy creepy if we did. Depressing, but it is what it is. I can’t make myself care about stuff that appeals to whippersnappers. The stuff that neopunkfm covers…for example…just too childish and internet oriented.
Classic metal sounds dated, sure, but they invented the entire concept of metal and heavy guitar music, downtuning, shred and even the aesthetics, the "evilness". The "horns" is probably the most influential symbol in all popular music and considering all of this list, I think not even the most modern Spiritbox type of band can escape the fact that classic metal was the foundation
@@deathring7339 Nah man, all those things made up the classic metal tree... thrash was the crazy whirly-bird type seed that flew away and planted a whole new forest. The first form of rock to totally ditch its roots.
The most important genre is probably "classic metal" since that is the one that made the most money and provided a platform for all of the other sub-genres to exist.
Thrash is my favorite subgenre for many reasons. Theres an endless list of bands to discover, there's bands that sound different strictly based on their vocal style, each scene has its own take on it, the album cover art tends to be awesome, the feeling you get from hearing a solid riff that adds a second guitar on top of the first one
Agreed, ever seen that top 150 thrash metal albums list? I modified/elongated it a little to my own tastes, but the basics is, a lot of thrash bands came and went, leaving amazing music not many have heard, like say Atrophy, just 2 albums, but holy fuck are they good.
As someone who's been watching your videos for several years now, I think this might be one of your most fair and objective videos so far. Even though it's all for fun, you brought up so many important factors on each genre that it really allows you to see both sides of each matchup
I understand why everyone is saying nü metal but I'd argue hair metal was more important for the same reason. It showed the industry that heavy music could be commercially viable on a large scale.
My issue with Nu Metal beating Classic Metal in terms of importance is that, while Nu Metal probably is more directly influential to metal now, Classic metal influenced the genre (well, created it) at a time when metal was much, much more influential as a whole. Classic Metal directly influenced bands like Metallica which is a household name. Nu Metal influences bands that, respectfully, the vast majority of people have never heard of and probably will never hear about. In 40 years time, the bands that classic metal influenced will be remembered, the ones that Nu Metal influenced probably will not, at least they won't if current trends continue.
The jump from classic metal like dio iron maiden priest sabbath etc to thrash is enormous. The guitar tone, speed of the drumming, the riff style and lyrical content being so dark its such a huge leap
the existence of nu metal still feels like a fever dream. nu metal is one of the most recent metal subgenres, but the impact it has to this day is massive
If you really look at both musical and cultural dimension of bands such as Korn, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, Linkin Park, SOAD, Deftones, Evanescence, the genre legacy and it's lasting impact on several generations, I think it's fair to say that overall Nü Metal is bigger than Thrash.
yeah, like if we made a bracket of all your content, brackets would probably go head to head in the final match up, and lose to the S tier that is tier lists.[Id also love to see a bracket of core genres too honestly]
On classic sounding 'rocky', I really think one of the reasons modern metal sounds so stale, with some exceptions, is it stripped out so much blues and rock influence that it became kind of rigid
I absolutely agree that modern metal sounds stale, especially with the overuse of "djent" and extremely formulaic production methods. However, blues and rock oriented guitar playing became stale, too. There were only so many riffs or melodies you could write in the pentatonic scale, unfortunately. I think modern metal's predicament is that there are metal bands doing new things, but they're too weird. I love experimental black and death metal that uses bizarre scales and all kinds of dissonance (which is still pretty inventive), but I recognize it's far too angular to ever be popular. Then, on the other end, artists like Sleep Token or Poppy make occasionally heavy music that is accessible but feels a bit too distant from what metal started as. This was really long, sorry, lmao. I guess my point was that bands are kinda damned if they do, damned if they don't
@@AgainstTheeWickedlyMusic I don't think blues or rock being stale has a lot to do with metal's situation though (that is a whole separate discussion, worth having but too big for me to get into here). The point is, metal spends too much time avoiding rock and blues sounds, which would add much needed tones it is now sorely lacking. Maybe the blues got stale, but the blues in the hands of Iron Maiden wasn't stale when they were putting out albums like the Seventh Son, because it had some of those blues elements but also had a lot of other elements like classical in there. These days I would much rather listen to a metal band whose sound is all over the map and not strictly confined to a narrow subgenre than one following a narrow path of sound
@Bedrockbrendan I agree with what you said about Maiden, they did use those sounds well. And I will say, too, if you do still want blues and rock influence in your metal, doom metal, stoner metal, and sludge metal all take a lot of influence from blues and psychedelic rock. (Though, I will say I vastly prefer the gothic/melodic side of doom, and the noisy kind of sludge.) Unfortunately, a good chunk of them just sound like Black Sabbath knockoffs, and I think that's maybe part of the issue with that playing style. The classic metal bands used that sound so well that new bands just sound like they're copying them if they do. Which cycles back to why bands are stuck, cause they either sound generic for playing somewhat dated, traditional metal riffs, or generic in a modern sense for copying Architects or Periphery
@@AgainstTheeWickedlyMusic This is one of the reasons I always liked early Doom. There is value in going back to classic stuff like sabbath and deep purple. It can get old though if that is all band does
As someone who loves power metal, and considers the genre to be one of my favs, I am self aware enough to know that it really bears 0 influence/importance on music/metal at large. I just love cheeseball music about battles and dragons. I'm just a big nerd.
But thrash bands wouldn't of been the way they were without the new wave of brittish heavy metal, Maiden and Priest were massive influences on bands like Metallica and Exodus
Of course classic metal is the most important as it started it all. And it's also the best! ❤ There's no way any metal after classic metal features such iconic songs like: "War Pigs" "Heaven and Hell" "Hallowed be thy Name" "Children of the damned" "Breaking the law" "You've got another thing coming" Etc etc.
The thing with grindcore vs. metalcore is that as long as adding the “core” to anything makes it just as if not more inaccesible, then it’s metal, but if it makes it more appealing to broader audience, it’s clearly not. The gatekeepy metalhead’s worst nightmare is HIS kind of music being listened to by women and nuch of high schoolers.
Metalcore and deathcore are like 80percent metal , 15 percent core and 5 percent other. As such should def be included when the winner ( and correctly so ) genre of Thrash contains a higher percentage of core by at least 8 percent . I’ve compiled these numbers just from memory , my own perspective and comprehension of the clear differences between the genres , but if tasked to do so could come up with the raw data to support my claim.
Agree with this take. When you look at the big four of the US and also factor in bands like Sodom, Destruction and Kreator, it's kinda hard to argue that thrash isn't the king.
One thing you should have added for criteria is who acceptable the songs are to non metal fans that is a big one because if you can not not reach your core audience but then reach people outside that’s when you know it’s important.
@@hulluporo9067 Yeah, no. Not to people who discovered them when they were 22 like me. But yes, their return is highlighted by their first 2 albums when reforming, All Hell Breaks Loose and The Antichrist. I like their newest one though, Mike's alcohol addiction was showing even through their music since after 2015 and his replacement is a young talented guy, he shreds as much as Mike did but he can do solos, which Mike couldn't do very well since 10 years, so many guest guitarists for leads in those albums post 2005, their last great album was that one from 2005. It's crazy the list of thrash bands who have high quality records but you and I were too young to know about, nothing wrong with discovering older metal and getting into it. That's why it doesn't matter if things are stagnating a bit as of now, get that top 150 best thrash albums list that goes around since a decade...3/4 of the bands in there are worth knowing about, most are disbanded, but there are bands whose classics are even obscured despite the quality of the music and musicians, for example Sadus (before they reformed in the 2000's, they are not anything like they were in the early 90's).
@@eenpersoon2881 Probably their best song ever, at least after the last LP from 1990, yep, I like when Schmier's has hearable basslines and his in that one is perfect.
Obituary holds up great. When Death Metal first came out, I remember the sense of power it had and also recall thinking how can the genre get any heavier. I think in a lot of ways, metal peaked with the Death
I think you also have to define "influential/important" in terms of what the genre had an influence on- culture outside of metal or within metal. Cuz within metal, the greatest influence is probably classic metal because it started it all. But influence of things outside of metal might have a different answer.
When i saw the thumbnail i immediately thought "has to be thrash or death". I guess there's no arguing the impact of nu metal but i think , if we're solely speaking about music , death metal is still to this day more influential. Brutal death, tech death, deathcore etc... So many genres derive from death metal. (Although i'd agree that i can hear the slipknot influence in many bands today, slipknot wouldn't have ever sounded like they did without the death metal influence) ITS A CLOSE ONE
You are very right about there being too many subgenres. I feel like when the subgenres were first emerging, it was kind of exciting, but one of the reasons I have so much trouble getting into newer metal (and at my age newer means stuff that came out some point after the 2000s), is the way subgenres both proliferated and crystalized (I find it was the early days of those genres forming that is more interesting than after they have developed)
@dimitrije018 Eventually, yeah. Just remember them being the first time I heard the term "Metal core" Best example is the intro guy saying it at the beginning of their "Live at the Ritz" video
Yeah, both crossover thrash and metalcore was used in the 80's, in Canada, Sacrifice was described as metalcore by some people, the name is older than Converge strangely enough, but crossover thrash or just crossover is the main label for their stuff. Check out Dead Horse, that was another great Crossover band, or Cryptic Slaughter. Agnostic Front even went there with the Cause For Alarm LP, some songs were co-written by the main guitarist from Carnivore heh, they toned it a bit down with Liberty And Justice For... but it was still Crossover imo. The Eliminator is the best song they made from that phase of theirs.
Thrash for sure, it was the first version of rock that used intervals completely unrelated to its roots. Its integration into other forms of music pretty much killed blues-based rock in a matter of years. While grunge might be the dividing line between classic rock and almost everything after, it started with thrash.
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA I'm not even that much of a metal head, but as far as I'm concerned the two defining moments in rock evolution were Robert Johnson, and Thrash. Everything else was a blend of pre-existing elements.
FYI meshuggah did heading that European festival so significantly more people. Not sure if that counts and they also had that headline tour in 2022 I believe
1:10 haza i will pull out my power card that says grindcore has the CORE at the end but you consider that real metal, while metalcore has the word METAL in it and arguably grindcore is more related to genres outside of metal like punk, while metalcore and deathcore are more closer related to metal, they just have hardcore breakdowns. Welp i got to this part 8:50 im sorry finn pls forgive me
I'll die on the hill of classic metal. It is only dated because it progressed insanely fast. They went from sabbath doing spooky blues, to sabbath detuning down to C# on master of reality, priest picking up speed on stained class, motorhead amping it up, venom starting black metal, then thrash shows up and in 2 years you get death metal starting. Within 15 years they went from the first sabbath album to possessed seven churches
Do agree with thrash being number 1. Right now it looks like numetal is close, but we are in the middle of 90s nostalgia. 80s nostalgia ended but nearly everyone lost it when slayer announced a return for festival dates and metallica is still selling out stadiums.
Tool fan here: bracketing in competition only makes sense if there is seeding. Can I see the seeding and its basis? Who is responsible for the seeding?
Metalcore and deathcore both have the metal kind and the hardcore kind. If that’s the rationale for having grindcore, then metalcore and deathcore 100% need to be included. Especially deathcore is so far removed from hardcore that most people get it confused with death metal. Metalcore was also the last heavy genre that was mainstream in modern times.
Thrash vs. Prog is like fighting Alex Pereira and losing but not getting KO'd and also looking competitive at times, but still not enough to win. Nu metal vs. Thrash in the final is the most expected result though. I'm guessing the MMA equivalent of that is a prime GSP vs. a prime Anderson Silva.
Power metal should have fought with Classic metal in the first round. So sad to see the foundations just disregarded straight off the bat. Death metal vs Nu metal a much fairer comparison, especially when you introduce merchandise etc.
The best type of Metal is actually somewhere between Classic and Power - for instance the US Power Metal scene of the mid to late 80s. I enjoy stuff like Helloween and Rhapsody but I'm surprised that's more popular than US Power like Iced Earth and Nevermore.
I think you got it right with putting Nu Metal as the winner of one side but Thrash on top. Death metal is my favorite but I remember how many Death Metal and Metal core bands switched to a Nu Metal Sound in later years. It’s the go to for bands who commercialize their sound a bit and was the last time Metal was huge on the charts as well. There is no denying the importance of Nu Metal love it or hate it.
Oh, I so much agree with you. Core genres are derivatives of Hardcore Punk. There can be metal influence but it is at its core , no pun intended, a punk genre
Time to start new genres (coremetal and coredeath) so Finn can acknowledge them as real metal. I only just started watching, but that's my hot take from the whole video
Alright, got it, but I'd still keep it away from the metal, for the same reason you're not including metalcore and deathcore. ✌️ Long live vhs porn in the basement! 🤘😄🍻
I agree thrash is more important and probably sells more shows at stadiums. But just checked Spotify monthly listeners and looking at the big 4 compared to the big nu metal bands is pretty low surprisingly.
I wanna see a debate for this. Nu vs Thrash For thrash, it is the sound of metal when you think about metal from that time, the 70's and 80's, it was more dirty and raw, and wasn't afraid to be nasty and is unintentionally sloppy, but in a good way that just gives you a mean stink face. Thrash just sounds and feels like what metal should sound like. This is what metal back then sounded like. But for nu metal, that is the sound of the modern era, which we're still currently in, everything since nu metal is still relative to nu metal in some way or another. For example how it popularized down tuning and band have been getting lower since, and for more emphasis on rhythm. Nu metal has bouncy guitar riffs giving it a rhythmic feeling, then as we progress we get to metalcore with breakdowns which is also rhythmic section in the song, following that, you get djent, another heavily rhythm based genre. In the modern era, i have noticed that the next big influence is in some way, rhythm based. The way I see it, thrash is more important for its era, and nu metal is more important for its era Hard decision for me, but im gonna say Nu-metal
I’m not a big death metal fan or a big nu metal fan. But death metal is the foundation for all current extreme metal. It’s because of death metal that we have bands like Archspire, Slaughter To Prevail, Lorna Shore, Whitechapel. And whether you like deathcore or techdeath or not they are currently at the forefront of metal 🤷♂️
Check out my UA-cam coaching program: www.finnmckenty.com/work-with-me
Nü metal aka the mortgage payer
Your ability to make so many videos out of one topic is truly a talent. I watch & enjoy them all. I look forward to seeing your 1,000th video on the state of nu-metal, 10 years from now
Trust me man, I’m sick of it. But my audience hates when I do anything outside of this niche so I’m not really sure what to do
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA not everyone hates it there must be at least a minority that appreciates a new topic.
Prog is by definition the most important music. Not popular, not particularly good, but very important.
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA personally, I don’t mind genre/topic changes between videos, but I totally understand your predicament due to how the UA-cam algorithm works and that sort of stuff. You’re one of my trusty music UA-camrs to start my mornings off in a good mood.
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA You can do videos about anything that happened within the world of rock between 1978 and 2010. Anything beyond that…we don’t care. In fact, it would be crazy diddy creepy if we did. Depressing, but it is what it is. I can’t make myself care about stuff that appeals to whippersnappers. The stuff that neopunkfm covers…for example…just too childish and internet oriented.
You forgot about post prog ambient blackened atmospheric brutal technical death metal
Name 3 bands 😂
You want some good ambient listen to the full metal jacket film score by Kubrick’s daughter.
@@lubitz161 Blink 182, Sum 41, NFG.
@@playtime20214 Sum 41 is clearly technical atmospheric brutal ambient deathened black metal! 😤
Ah yes, it’s so brutal and technical that the speed results in looping back to somehow being atmospheric
Every power metal song I’m waiting for them to say “go go power rangers”
There's a lot of darker power metal too, it's not all happy happy joy joy. Try some Persuader, they're pretty badass.
Unironically great song! Also the 90s X-Men intro song shreds af. Rod Wasserman made both.
Powerglove literally has it on one of their albums
Punk rock factory covers the power rangers theme song, they’re great 😊
If Metal was a tree Classic Metal is the trunk.
Classic metal sounds dated, sure, but they invented the entire concept of metal and heavy guitar music, downtuning, shred and even the aesthetics, the "evilness". The "horns" is probably the most influential symbol in all popular music and considering all of this list, I think not even the most modern Spiritbox type of band can escape the fact that classic metal was the foundation
Blues, surf rock, and hard rock would be the seed
Fair
@@sickfitz4256Rock and surf like The Beatles and The Beach Boys, respectively, would be the roots. Now, the blues and jazz would be the seed
@@deathring7339 Nah man, all those things made up the classic metal tree... thrash was the crazy whirly-bird type seed that flew away and planted a whole new forest. The first form of rock to totally ditch its roots.
The most important genre is probably "classic metal" since that is the one that made the most money and provided a platform for all of the other sub-genres to exist.
“Classic metal” did not make that much money. Hair metal did
Thrash is my favorite subgenre for many reasons. Theres an endless list of bands to discover, there's bands that sound different strictly based on their vocal style, each scene has its own take on it, the album cover art tends to be awesome, the feeling you get from hearing a solid riff that adds a second guitar on top of the first one
Agreed, ever seen that top 150 thrash metal albums list? I modified/elongated it a little to my own tastes, but the basics is, a lot of thrash bands came and went, leaving amazing music not many have heard, like say Atrophy, just 2 albums, but holy fuck are they good.
As someone who's been watching your videos for several years now, I think this might be one of your most fair and objective videos so far. Even though it's all for fun, you brought up so many important factors on each genre that it really allows you to see both sides of each matchup
I understand why everyone is saying nü metal but I'd argue hair metal was more important for the same reason. It showed the industry that heavy music could be commercially viable on a large scale.
I've always felt Hair Metal and Nu Metal were distant sonic and cultural cousins of each other, separated by about 20 years
To the same point, I’ve always thought hair metal and grunge are just two siblings that don’t get along
Indeed - "hair metal" was bigger than "nu metal'.
Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Motley Crue, Poison, Whitesnake, Skid Row, Heart. All MASSIVE in the 80s.
@@VampireJack10and Guns N Roses as well.
@@ChristopherJames1993 yup, GnR too. Although many don't consider them to be hair metal per se.
Saying Core isn’t metal is like saying Killswitch isn’t metal
My issue with Nu Metal beating Classic Metal in terms of importance is that, while Nu Metal probably is more directly influential to metal now, Classic metal influenced the genre (well, created it) at a time when metal was much, much more influential as a whole. Classic Metal directly influenced bands like Metallica which is a household name. Nu Metal influences bands that, respectfully, the vast majority of people have never heard of and probably will never hear about. In 40 years time, the bands that classic metal influenced will be remembered, the ones that Nu Metal influenced probably will not, at least they won't if current trends continue.
Did not expect that ending but I respect it and appreciate it!
The jump from classic metal like dio iron maiden priest sabbath etc to thrash is enormous. The guitar tone, speed of the drumming, the riff style and lyrical content being so dark its such a huge leap
Papa Finns Rough Metal Genre Guide
The production on images and words is absolutely insane for 1992. It sounds better than most modern records imo. And those drums 😩
Shout out to Grand Seiko at @8:56 - the most beautiful watch in the world.
My favorite subgenre of metal music is "heavy" :)
Glam 🤟💅
the existence of nu metal still feels like a fever dream. nu metal is one of the most recent metal subgenres, but the impact it has to this day is massive
If you really look at both musical and cultural dimension of bands such as Korn, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, Linkin Park, SOAD, Deftones, Evanescence, the genre legacy and it's lasting impact on several generations, I think it's fair to say that overall Nü Metal is bigger than Thrash.
I wonder what finn's vhs collection looks like.
I love you Finn. Thank you so much for making me smile after a long day. God bless you
1:05 my guess is the final two will be thrash and nu
yeah, like if we made a bracket of all your content, brackets would probably go head to head in the final match up, and lose to the S tier that is tier lists.[Id also love to see a bracket of core genres too honestly]
Lol that reminds me of the alignment chart of alignment charts, where alignment charts are neutral neutral
On classic sounding 'rocky', I really think one of the reasons modern metal sounds so stale, with some exceptions, is it stripped out so much blues and rock influence that it became kind of rigid
I absolutely agree that modern metal sounds stale, especially with the overuse of "djent" and extremely formulaic production methods. However, blues and rock oriented guitar playing became stale, too. There were only so many riffs or melodies you could write in the pentatonic scale, unfortunately. I think modern metal's predicament is that there are metal bands doing new things, but they're too weird. I love experimental black and death metal that uses bizarre scales and all kinds of dissonance (which is still pretty inventive), but I recognize it's far too angular to ever be popular. Then, on the other end, artists like Sleep Token or Poppy make occasionally heavy music that is accessible but feels a bit too distant from what metal started as.
This was really long, sorry, lmao. I guess my point was that bands are kinda damned if they do, damned if they don't
@@AgainstTheeWickedlyMusic I don't think blues or rock being stale has a lot to do with metal's situation though (that is a whole separate discussion, worth having but too big for me to get into here). The point is, metal spends too much time avoiding rock and blues sounds, which would add much needed tones it is now sorely lacking. Maybe the blues got stale, but the blues in the hands of Iron Maiden wasn't stale when they were putting out albums like the Seventh Son, because it had some of those blues elements but also had a lot of other elements like classical in there. These days I would much rather listen to a metal band whose sound is all over the map and not strictly confined to a narrow subgenre than one following a narrow path of sound
@Bedrockbrendan I agree with what you said about Maiden, they did use those sounds well. And I will say, too, if you do still want blues and rock influence in your metal, doom metal, stoner metal, and sludge metal all take a lot of influence from blues and psychedelic rock. (Though, I will say I vastly prefer the gothic/melodic side of doom, and the noisy kind of sludge.) Unfortunately, a good chunk of them just sound like Black Sabbath knockoffs, and I think that's maybe part of the issue with that playing style. The classic metal bands used that sound so well that new bands just sound like they're copying them if they do. Which cycles back to why bands are stuck, cause they either sound generic for playing somewhat dated, traditional metal riffs, or generic in a modern sense for copying Architects or Periphery
@@Bedrockbrendan I do completely agree with what you said about bands mixing styles together, though, cause that's also what I prefer these days
@@AgainstTheeWickedlyMusic This is one of the reasons I always liked early Doom. There is value in going back to classic stuff like sabbath and deep purple. It can get old though if that is all band does
As someone who loves power metal, and considers the genre to be one of my favs, I am self aware enough to know that it really bears 0 influence/importance on music/metal at large.
I just love cheeseball music about battles and dragons. I'm just a big nerd.
The truth is that Power Metal will fall off in the future because today's kids are into other kinds of Metal.
@@hulluporo9067 maybe in some way, but as long as there are EU metal festivals, it'll be around for a long time.
Sabaton disagrees
Another amazing video Finn.
Thrash because it injected speed and aggression and paved the way for the ultimate form of metal: death
But thrash bands wouldn't of been the way they were without the new wave of brittish heavy metal, Maiden and Priest were massive influences on bands like Metallica and Exodus
@@nemesis8626 True also, but for future influence its trash. All extreme metal spew from it.
I think you mean VENOM....
@@nemesis8626and Motorhead as well.
Of course classic metal is the most important as it started it all.
And it's also the best! ❤ There's no way any metal after classic metal features such iconic songs like:
"War Pigs"
"Heaven and Hell"
"Hallowed be thy Name"
"Children of the damned"
"Breaking the law"
"You've got another thing coming"
Etc etc.
The thing with grindcore vs. metalcore is that as long as adding the “core” to anything makes it just as if not more inaccesible, then it’s metal, but if it makes it more appealing to broader audience, it’s clearly not.
The gatekeepy metalhead’s worst nightmare is HIS kind of music being listened to by women and nuch of high schoolers.
Metalcore and deathcore are like 80percent metal , 15 percent core and 5 percent other. As such should def be included when the winner ( and correctly so ) genre of Thrash contains a higher percentage of core by at least 8 percent . I’ve compiled these numbers just from memory , my own perspective and comprehension of the clear differences between the genres , but if tasked to do so could come up with the raw data to support my claim.
Okay I don't disagree with you at all, but I just have to see how you would actually back that up with data lol.
love the font colors for real!
Every morning I'm watching your videos! Thank you Uncle Finn!
Agree with this take. When you look at the big four of the US and also factor in bands like Sodom, Destruction and Kreator, it's kinda hard to argue that thrash isn't the king.
One thing you should have added for criteria is who acceptable the songs are to non metal fans that is a big one because if you can not not reach your core audience but then reach people outside that’s when you know it’s important.
This is about what I expect from Finn. Love his ability to analyze a musical genre and disagree with just about all his musical opinions.
Thrash 'till Death said a little German band called Destruction when reuniting and better than ever in the year fucking 2000.
Destruction is just a band for boomers right now.
@@hulluporo9067 Yeah, no. Not to people who discovered them when they were 22 like me. But yes, their return is highlighted by their first 2 albums when reforming, All Hell Breaks Loose and The Antichrist.
I like their newest one though, Mike's alcohol addiction was showing even through their music since after 2015 and his replacement is a young talented guy, he shreds as much as Mike did but he can do solos, which Mike couldn't do very well since 10 years, so many guest guitarists for leads in those albums post 2005, their last great album was that one from 2005.
It's crazy the list of thrash bands who have high quality records but you and I were too young to know about, nothing wrong with discovering older metal and getting into it. That's why it doesn't matter if things are stagnating a bit as of now, get that top 150 best thrash albums list that goes around since a decade...3/4 of the bands in there are worth knowing about, most are disbanded, but there are bands whose classics are even obscured despite the quality of the music and musicians, for example Sadus (before they reformed in the 2000's, they are not anything like they were in the early 90's).
I love that song Nailed to the Cross👌🏻
@@eenpersoon2881 Probably their best song ever, at least after the last LP from 1990, yep, I like when Schmier's has hearable basslines and his in that one is perfect.
@@hulluporo9067 there's no way anyone above the age of 18 would think like this unironically
Finnigan “If it doesn’t sell albums the music automatically sucks” McKenty
Well, we're talking about which metal subgenre is the most important, so album sales are pretty significant.
@@dominikaksiazek7177 concealing fate by tesseract didn’t sell a whole bunch of albums and it’s considered one of the best albums in prog metal today
@@Jakereisman11111”we’re not talking about what’s good, we’re talking about what’s important”
I dig power metal, but the close genre next to it called speed metal was waaay more influential. Paved the way for thrash too!
Have we had a video on which genre of metal has the best drip?
Obituary holds up great. When Death Metal first came out, I remember the sense of power it had and also recall thinking how can the genre get any heavier. I think in a lot of ways, metal peaked with the Death
There is a difference in importance vs influence. Video was done more with taking influence as more important than anything else.
I think you also have to define "influential/important" in terms of what the genre had an influence on- culture outside of metal or within metal. Cuz within metal, the greatest influence is probably classic metal because it started it all. But influence of things outside of metal might have a different answer.
When i saw the thumbnail i immediately thought "has to be thrash or death". I guess there's no arguing the impact of nu metal but i think , if we're solely speaking about music , death metal is still to this day more influential. Brutal death, tech death, deathcore etc... So many genres derive from death metal. (Although i'd agree that i can hear the slipknot influence in many bands today, slipknot wouldn't have ever sounded like they did without the death metal influence) ITS A CLOSE ONE
I want to pick Prog over thrash because I’m truly a Prog-head, but even Meshuggah basically started off sounding like Metallica.
Behemoth are also a massive band
You are very right about there being too many subgenres. I feel like when the subgenres were first emerging, it was kind of exciting, but one of the reasons I have so much trouble getting into newer metal (and at my age newer means stuff that came out some point after the 2000s), is the way subgenres both proliferated and crystalized (I find it was the early days of those genres forming that is more interesting than after they have developed)
I love it when my PR MBA and mma UA-cam collides
D.R.I. was sometimes called "metalcore" back in the 80's
Crossover thrash?
@dimitrije018 Eventually, yeah. Just remember them being the first time I heard the term "Metal core"
Best example is the intro guy saying it at the beginning of their "Live at the Ritz" video
@@leftymcnally6913i always think crossover thrash is just basically proto metalcore except much more thrash metal influenced.
Yeah, both crossover thrash and metalcore was used in the 80's, in Canada, Sacrifice was described as metalcore by some people, the name is older than Converge strangely enough, but crossover thrash or just crossover is the main label for their stuff. Check out Dead Horse, that was another great Crossover band, or Cryptic Slaughter. Agnostic Front even went there with the Cause For Alarm LP, some songs were co-written by the main guitarist from Carnivore heh, they toned it a bit down with Liberty And Justice For... but it was still Crossover imo. The Eliminator is the best song they made from that phase of theirs.
@@severed111 Deadhorse... don't see them mentioned too often. I used to listen to Peaceful Death & Pretty Flowers quite a lot.
Thrash for sure, it was the first version of rock that used intervals completely unrelated to its roots. Its integration into other forms of music pretty much killed blues-based rock in a matter of years. While grunge might be the dividing line between classic rock and almost everything after, it started with thrash.
Great point! Wish i had thought of it 😅
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA I'm not even that much of a metal head, but as far as I'm concerned the two defining moments in rock evolution were Robert Johnson, and Thrash. Everything else was a blend of pre-existing elements.
FYI meshuggah did heading that European festival so significantly more people. Not sure if that counts and they also had that headline tour in 2022 I believe
Now I can safely play Lorna Shore without my family complaining about me playing metal (because core isn’t metal)
That grindcore song sounds like angry Rottweilers 😂
Thrash Metal, Power Metal, Black Metal & Death Metal for the most important sub genre of Heavy Metal.
1:10 haza i will pull out my power card that says grindcore has the CORE at the end but you consider that real metal, while metalcore has the word METAL in it and arguably grindcore is more related to genres outside of metal like punk, while metalcore and deathcore are more closer related to metal, they just have hardcore breakdowns.
Welp i got to this part 8:50 im sorry finn pls forgive me
Remember, Metallica is the only band to have played on every continent including Antarctica. That shows how important of a genre thrash is
I'll die on the hill of classic metal. It is only dated because it progressed insanely fast. They went from sabbath doing spooky blues, to sabbath detuning down to C# on master of reality, priest picking up speed on stained class, motorhead amping it up, venom starting black metal, then thrash shows up and in 2 years you get death metal starting. Within 15 years they went from the first sabbath album to possessed seven churches
Where do you put bands like Converge or Zao if there's no core?
Those are hardcore bands not metal
Do agree with thrash being number 1. Right now it looks like numetal is close, but we are in the middle of 90s nostalgia. 80s nostalgia ended but nearly everyone lost it when slayer announced a return for festival dates and metallica is still selling out stadiums.
Tool fan here: bracketing in competition only makes sense if there is seeding. Can I see the seeding and its basis? Who is responsible for the seeding?
@@andyjaniszewski2130 👨🎓
Have you ever discussed the band (Hed) p.e. in your videos? If so which video(s)
Hair metal for me and it's not even close. Love that Sweden has been keeping the genre alive with a heavier and more punk approach.
How did grind and power get picked over groove alt or industrial
It's clearly technical-brutal-black metal.
Uh, excuse me, it's brutal technical black metal.
My apologies, sir.
Metalcore and deathcore both have the metal kind and the hardcore kind. If that’s the rationale for having grindcore, then metalcore and deathcore 100% need to be included. Especially deathcore is so far removed from hardcore that most people get it confused with death metal. Metalcore was also the last heavy genre that was mainstream in modern times.
At very beginning.. I'm gonna predict Nu vs. Thrash in finals (w/ Nu winning)
tha was close
Pittin prog against grind is like making me choose a favorite child 😭
As someone whos not really familiar with metal aside from metalcore and deathcore, why dont people consider those two genres as metal?
where does Cave In sit ...I always think of it as hardcore but the last album feels much more metal
How important would you say Industrial Metal is?
Is Finn getting into watches?
I’m seeing lots of watch UA-cam video suggestions for him?
We all knew the answer before the video started . . but you still made it interesting and a fun listen.
Subtle Grand Seiko flex.
I almost gave up on this video expecting Finn to inevitably pick nu metal bc it's a Finn video, but he made the right choice.
Thrash vs. Prog is like fighting Alex Pereira and losing but not getting KO'd and also looking competitive at times, but still not enough to win. Nu metal vs. Thrash in the final is the most expected result though. I'm guessing the MMA equivalent of that is a prime GSP vs. a prime Anderson Silva.
You were so right on the prog popularity lol, periphery is playing here on a Wednesday night.
Power metal should have fought with Classic metal in the first round. So sad to see the foundations just disregarded straight off the bat. Death metal vs Nu metal a much fairer comparison, especially when you introduce merchandise etc.
The best type of Metal is actually somewhere between Classic and Power - for instance the US Power Metal scene of the mid to late 80s.
I enjoy stuff like Helloween and Rhapsody but I'm surprised that's more popular than US Power like Iced Earth and Nevermore.
I think you got it right with putting Nu Metal as the winner of one side but Thrash on top. Death metal is my favorite but I remember how many Death Metal and Metal core bands switched to a Nu Metal Sound in later years. It’s the go to for bands who commercialize their sound a bit and was the last time Metal was huge on the charts as well. There is no denying the importance of Nu Metal love it or hate it.
Metalcore is not only metal but it's the best metal genre.
I'll die on this hill ⛰️
90’s Death metal… although it is a product of 80s thrash… it has changed everything for the past 25 years!
8:11 You a Teddy Baldassarre fan Finn?
Great video
Pop punk, groove metal or Killswitch-era metalcore
Probably the only Finn Mckenty video that I didn’t disagree with him
“Prog vs grind, which is more influential?”
Shows James Labrie with a Napalm Death T-Shirt
Look at Finn Gatekeeping with that "if it has core at the end it's not real metal" 😂😂😂😂 I'm jk love the channel bro
Good old Obituary
Finn Mckenty be like:
"Alright guys, without a doubt the most important subgenre of metal is *PERIPHERY* "
Oh, I so much agree with you. Core genres are derivatives of Hardcore Punk. There can be metal influence but it is at its core , no pun intended, a punk genre
Did your instagram got deleted? Can't find your profile 😂
I don't understand how having core at the end of the subgenre makes it not metal.
Time to start new genres (coremetal and coredeath) so Finn can acknowledge them as real metal. I only just started watching, but that's my hot take from the whole video
Well, there's core in grindcore, still haven't seen the whole video though, don't know if somebody else brought it up. 😅
Alright, got it, but I'd still keep it away from the metal, for the same reason you're not including metalcore and deathcore. ✌️ Long live vhs porn in the basement! 🤘😄🍻
You need to stop grinding nu metal. It's 3/10 and every other genre is better.
Bradley Hall is gonna love this one 🤘 A metal vid from Finn! let's GO. 👊
I agree thrash is more important and probably sells more shows at stadiums. But just checked Spotify monthly listeners and looking at the big 4 compared to the big nu metal bands is pretty low surprisingly.
I wanna see a debate for this.
Nu vs Thrash
For thrash, it is the sound of metal when you think about metal from that time, the 70's and 80's, it was more dirty and raw, and wasn't afraid to be nasty and is unintentionally sloppy, but in a good way that just gives you a mean stink face. Thrash just sounds and feels like what metal should sound like. This is what metal back then sounded like.
But for nu metal, that is the sound of the modern era, which we're still currently in, everything since nu metal is still relative to nu metal in some way or another. For example how it popularized down tuning and band have been getting lower since, and for more emphasis on rhythm. Nu metal has bouncy guitar riffs giving it a rhythmic feeling, then as we progress we get to metalcore with breakdowns which is also rhythmic section in the song, following that, you get djent, another heavily rhythm based genre. In the modern era, i have noticed that the next big influence is in some way, rhythm based.
The way I see it, thrash is more important for its era, and nu metal is more important for its era
Hard decision for me, but im gonna say Nu-metal
Realistically, probably thrash or death metal. Also glam as well.
Metalcore and deathcore are more metal than nu metal.
+1
Amen
eh, metalcore has a metal variation at least, same can't be said for the other two.
-2.
LOL
I’m not a big death metal fan or a big nu metal fan. But death metal is the foundation for all current extreme metal. It’s because of death metal that we have bands like Archspire, Slaughter To Prevail, Lorna Shore, Whitechapel. And whether you like deathcore or techdeath or not they are currently at the forefront of metal 🤷♂️