Tankiest Vect unit? Close, but I’d say Bjorn holds that title. T9 on a 2+ save, halves all damage and has a 5+ FNP with 8 wounds. Would be neat to see a math comparison of some of the vect units.
We just spent the last year with battleshcok that doesn’t matter and a “die efficiently playstyle that most people didn’t enjoy. Let have a moment to actually be able to fight. Until this moment our main strategy for taking on tanks or heavy units was just ignoring it with more bodies than it can shoot.
After listening to the zoy'd/neurotyrant big able to use the BGNT rule I did some digging. ■Rules Commentary under Keyword seems to bar Infantry shooting: Some units can contain models that have different keywords. While this is the case, such a unit is considered to have all of the keywords of all of its models, and so is affected by any rule that applies to units with any of those keywords. Remember that attacks are made against units, not models. Example: An Attached unit contains a Leader model with the Psyker keyword. While that Leader is part of that unit, the entire unit is considered to have the Psyker keyword. If that unit is attacked by a weapon with the [ANTI-PSYKER 4+] ability, any unmodified Wound roll of 4+ made against that unit scores a Critical Wound, even if the attack itself is not allocated to that Leader model. ■ If a rule only applies to models with a specific keyword, then it instead only applies to models in such a unit that have the correct keyword. (This would be Big Guns Never Tire, the unit is considered a Monster Unit but the Infantry inside are not individually Monster keyword) there for just the neurotyrant could use this rule Luckly its a torrent weapon so no -1 penality.
Correct, ust to make sure everyone gets it though. BGNT applies to the UNIT's Keywords. The PENALTY applies only to the Model specifically. Therefore only the Neurotyrant would suffer the -1 to hit. but as you elucidated that is irrelevant. The zoanthropes will still hit on 2's
Interesting take on the neurotyrant and zoas getting big guns benefit. Do you know of another army that can embed monsters in infantry? I know people thought at the beginning that tyrant could wall walk in a guard unit, but that was ultimately not allowed as it was judged model by model. I think when they wrote BGNT, they did not consider your scenario. Most monster or vehicle units are single or all the same type. I have a feeling this is unintended and will be patched out if it gets too much attention. Thanks for the great video as always.
You mean the weapon choice giving them 2 attacks hitting on 4s? Not a lot really cares i think. Tyrant guard arent amazing.
Місяць тому+1
@@danielhammer619 Not amazing, no. They still do some solid anti tank damage and giving a FNP to a Swarm or Brood Lord in a Detachment where you regenerate damage every round is not nothing.
you cant walk them with Broodlords, and most dont wanna pour more points in to already expensive hive tyrants/swarm lords. They are expensive already as they are.
cheers bud, i think its pretty much just spamming the bigs and hormagaunts. I am still 100% including a biovore, because spore mines can still get BEL, engage, Area denial, and they mess up peoples movements phases
i hope if they do go up its more focused as opposed to over everything. specifically stuff like exocrine going up also swarm isnt doing so well rn, id love to see them to become more useful without buffing other lists
yeah swarm is likely dead, but vanguard is gonna be top, synaptic is great, invader is still solid, and crusher got a huge boost (i doubt crusher will be top, but its still a big improvement)
I used swarmy against WE. He got first turn and charged ant tried to jail me in my deployment zone. He ran into an aura of -1cp. His damage output was hampered and I played VO so could fall back and charge. Swarmy in VO is amazing.
on average 6 zoans deal more dmg to armored targets than tyrannofexes. and they are better vs invulns due to higher volume of attacks. with a neurotyrant they deal close to 2 tyrannofex' dmg. i'd say purely from a damage dealing standpoint they still win, though the tyrannofex is now much closer and not that much of a trap. though the thropes still do very well vs elites and even hordes and with a neurotyrant are a nice overwatch target. they are squishier though and more vulnerable to a wider array of weapons with t5 and 3 wounds.
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007dude for real. I think the objective requirement in theory is fine, but if you keep it I think it needs a range increase. All 4 harvesters are melee bugs (except pyrovores) so to use them they need to get in, but then they'll get gunned down before they can reach objectives that matter with the rest of your army. Rippers are fine since they're cheap, and decently fast, but I don't know if they're honestly good enough for that purpose. I will say tho that completely removing the objective requirement might make the detachment a bit obnoxious. Just run as many harvesters as possible and as many tanky units as you can. Some hormagaunts to tie up, neuro lictors, tyrants of all kinds, and zoanthropes with beautiful 4+ invulns. It'd be hard to actually kill anything lol
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 Yes, I have played them. They are not. I could easily beat our army with almost any out there. I am a tyranid main and only player. Easy to beat us. We are average 50% maybe now, if we spam our best units.
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 lets see where we are at in a couple weeks, Vanguard is certainly good, but according to this weeks torny stats as an overall army we are mid
First the positive. They fixed 80% percent of the codex. But Exocrines and Trygons need to go up in points as an example. Assimilation Swarm needs more harvester keywords, Venomthropes and Norn Assimilator. Trygons/Mawlocs lack deadly demise. They are monsters. We in Nid discord are wondering now if an underpaid intern at nighttime wrote the codex on a short deadline. Lack of keywords, weird synergies, lack of deadly demise. It looks like the release of a game like cyperpunk 2077. Another example is Regenerative monstrosity enhancement in Assswarm. It doesn’t target monster. Is it because too strong? Not proofread enough? We don’t know and cannot know design parameters as customers of that end product. The codex at release is full of Puretide Engram Neurochip issues, things that just don’t worked or lack internal structure. Interesting to see the development and GW made great work but the codex shouldn’t have been released like that :/ So I play them it’s amazing but it makes me wonder what the design space was. Same with Custodes and GSC.
i mean WE are amazing, easily top 3 in the game right now, they dont need any real shift's. they dont even need their strats, they get all of their buffs from the blessings of khorne
BGNT the zoans are clearly an oversight. U want them to shoot out of combat just take the -1 to hit… u can’t want the positive without taken the negs with it. If this will be abused u might risk a ruling they losing the monster keyword… so anyone reading this don’t be that guy….
![[V10] Présentation de Liste Vanguard Onslaught Post Dataslate.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VvtyU-iRJfE/mqdefault.jpg)
Tankiest Vect unit? Close, but I’d say Bjorn holds that title.
T9 on a 2+ save, halves all damage and has a 5+ FNP with 8 wounds.
Would be neat to see a math comparison of some of the vect units.
good idea, ill put one together!
T9 to T10 is a big difference. Melta profile is great against T9
Fatewaever has entered the chat
We just spent the last year with battleshcok that doesn’t matter and a “die efficiently playstyle that most people didn’t enjoy. Let have a moment to actually be able to fight. Until this moment our main strategy for taking on tanks or heavy units was just ignoring it with more bodies than it can shoot.
yeah man i am excited for all of it
Great content, never seen this channel before and was searching for tyranid stuff! Subbed!
Cheers bud! Super happy to have you aboard!
After listening to the zoy'd/neurotyrant big able to use the BGNT rule I did some digging.
■Rules Commentary under Keyword seems to bar Infantry shooting:
Some units can contain models that have different keywords. While
this is the case, such a unit is considered to have all of the keywords
of all of its models, and so is affected by any rule that applies to
units with any of those keywords. Remember that attacks are made
against units, not models.
Example: An Attached unit contains a Leader model with the Psyker
keyword. While that Leader is part of that unit, the entire unit is
considered to have the Psyker keyword. If that unit is attacked by
a weapon with the [ANTI-PSYKER 4+] ability, any unmodified Wound
roll of 4+ made against that unit scores a Critical Wound, even if the
attack itself is not allocated to that Leader model.
■ If a rule only applies to models with a specific keyword, then
it instead only applies to models in such a unit that have the
correct keyword. (This would be Big Guns Never Tire, the unit is considered a Monster Unit but the Infantry inside are not individually Monster keyword) there for just the neurotyrant could use this rule
Luckly its a torrent weapon so no -1 penality.
Correct, ust to make sure everyone gets it though. BGNT applies to the UNIT's Keywords. The PENALTY applies only to the Model specifically. Therefore only the Neurotyrant would suffer the -1 to hit. but as you elucidated that is irrelevant. The zoanthropes will still hit on 2's
Interesting take on the neurotyrant and zoas getting big guns benefit. Do you know of another army that can embed monsters in infantry?
I know people thought at the beginning that tyrant could wall walk in a guard unit, but that was ultimately not allowed as it was judged model by model.
I think when they wrote BGNT, they did not consider your scenario. Most monster or vehicle units are single or all the same type. I have a feeling this is unintended and will be patched out if it gets too much attention.
Thanks for the great video as always.
cheers buddy, it is likely unintended, but it is oddly written having different sections for monster unit vs monster model which makes one wonder
Tyrant Guard can now go to strength 10 with their twin linked claws in Assimilation Swarm with the Parasitic Biomorphology enhancement.
All the detachment do, with the Army rule.
@@LA-hx8gj No, because the Tyrant Guard claws have strength 8...
You mean the weapon choice giving them 2 attacks hitting on 4s? Not a lot really cares i think. Tyrant guard arent amazing.
@@danielhammer619 Not amazing, no. They still do some solid anti tank damage and giving a FNP to a Swarm or Brood Lord in a Detachment where you regenerate damage every round is not nothing.
you cant walk them with Broodlords, and most dont wanna pour more points in to already expensive hive tyrants/swarm lords. They are expensive already as they are.
Awesome content as always dude. Question, what would your Crusher list be? Taking a Norn & Swarmlord gets me excited for Nids.
cheers bud, i think its pretty much just spamming the bigs and hormagaunts. I am still 100% including a biovore, because spore mines can still get BEL, engage, Area denial, and they mess up peoples movements phases
I came here for the custodes content and stayed for the new(?) tyranid one!
muwahahaha, a happy krumper in the making!
Genestealers doesn,t have advance and charge online in the GSC codex in the nids codex theynhave reroll the woundroll on an objektive you controll
i hope if they do go up its more focused as opposed to over everything. specifically stuff like exocrine going up
also swarm isnt doing so well rn, id love to see them to become more useful without buffing other lists
yeah swarm is likely dead, but vanguard is gonna be top, synaptic is great, invader is still solid, and crusher got a huge boost (i doubt crusher will be top, but its still a big improvement)
I used swarmy against WE. He got first turn and charged ant tried to jail me in my deployment zone. He ran into an aura of -1cp. His damage output was hampered and I played VO so could fall back and charge. Swarmy in VO is amazing.
yeah i am a big fan of him, basically everywhere
on average 6 zoans deal more dmg to armored targets than tyrannofexes. and they are better vs invulns due to higher volume of attacks. with a neurotyrant they deal close to 2 tyrannofex' dmg. i'd say purely from a damage dealing standpoint they still win, though the tyrannofex is now much closer and not that much of a trap. though the thropes still do very well vs elites and even hordes and with a neurotyrant are a nice overwatch target. they are squishier though and more vulnerable to a wider array of weapons with t5 and 3 wounds.
yeah i like them
Assimilation swarm does good with swarmy and 6 tyrant guard. Ez to rez full units of guard
sadly the rule is so hard to fufill, if only they removed the objective requirement
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007dude for real. I think the objective requirement in theory is fine, but if you keep it I think it needs a range increase. All 4 harvesters are melee bugs (except pyrovores) so to use them they need to get in, but then they'll get gunned down before they can reach objectives that matter with the rest of your army. Rippers are fine since they're cheap, and decently fast, but I don't know if they're honestly good enough for that purpose. I will say tho that completely removing the objective requirement might make the detachment a bit obnoxious. Just run as many harvesters as possible and as many tanky units as you can. Some hormagaunts to tie up, neuro lictors, tyrants of all kinds, and zoanthropes with beautiful 4+ invulns. It'd be hard to actually kill anything lol
Awesome
Points increase? You must not realize that we are barely playable now.
Have you played them since the dataslate hahaha, they are Top in the game right now
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 Yes, I have played them. They are not. I could easily beat our army with almost any out there. I am a tyranid main and only player. Easy to beat us. We are average 50% maybe now, if we spam our best units.
yeeeeah give it a few weeks lol. Those things are stronger than BA now. Top 3 easily
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 Not even. We are middle now.
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 lets see where we are at in a couple weeks, Vanguard is certainly good, but according to this weeks torny stats as an overall army we are mid
First the positive. They fixed 80% percent of the codex. But Exocrines and Trygons need to go up in points as an example.
Assimilation Swarm needs more harvester keywords, Venomthropes and Norn Assimilator.
Trygons/Mawlocs lack deadly demise. They are monsters.
We in Nid discord are wondering now if an underpaid intern at nighttime wrote the codex on a short deadline. Lack of keywords, weird synergies, lack of deadly demise. It looks like the release of a game like cyperpunk 2077. Another example is Regenerative monstrosity enhancement in Assswarm. It doesn’t target monster. Is it because too strong? Not proofread enough?
We don’t know and cannot know design parameters as customers of that end product. The codex at release is full of Puretide Engram Neurochip issues, things that just don’t worked or lack internal structure.
Interesting to see the development and GW made great work but the codex shouldn’t have been released like that :/
So I play them it’s amazing but it makes me wonder what the design space was. Same with Custodes and GSC.
yeah i would love to see assimilation swarm doable
WEs will need some shooting elements and some Fights first elements I think.
I dont agree!
@@dominicdwk WE need a vect unit too 😢unfair that Nids have Swarmy as melee counter and don’t have range for a vect character.
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 what would be good additions to a WE list considering this shift in meta?
i mean WE are amazing, easily top 3 in the game right now, they dont need any real shift's. they dont even need their strats, they get all of their buffs from the blessings of khorne
Master of Executions: "Am i a joke to you?"
i have to play at 0.75 of normal speed to not go crazy. Good content though
:P cheers homie
BGNT the zoans are clearly an oversight. U want them to shoot out of combat just take the -1 to hit… u can’t want the positive without taken the negs with it. If this will be abused u might risk a ruling they losing the monster keyword… so anyone reading this don’t be that guy….
Gamesworkshop needs to clean up their rules writing no argument from me. As is, this is the way it works
6 Zoans and a Tyrant is also 305 points, seems a little expensive to me but they are still good.
that is where i am! I like them in vanguard since you can re strat reserve them