And then there's detective conan. Where the movies aren't canon but characters and plot points get introduced in the movies and after that just start showing up in the manga without ever getting properly introduced there
And then the movies' and show's depiction of them don't even really match. Shiratori in the first four movies is practically a completely different character from how he is in the show/Movie 5-onwards. The fact that starting with Movie 5 he has a new actor (Admittedly only because the old one died) doesn't exactly help.
@@brutalnobody5240 If you're talking about Deku's braces in the Villain Hunt Arc, it's technically not out of nowhere. IIRC Two Heroes is the only movie considered "canon" to both the anime and manga, and in the main series all Deku says about them is that he got them shipped from America, because that's all the reader really needs to know to get the gyst
I think, from my perspective, the Hero Academia films are a good example of my problem with these films. It feels like there's almost an obligation to go back to specific formulas when it comes to these movies, and I think it drags them down. The third film, World Heroes' MIssion, I think starts out really strong since it gives opportunity to see a lot more of the world you don't normally see in the series, with a bit of a different dynamic between Deku and the new character (almost a road type, bromance film). But then the stuff with the cult and the climactic fight of the film just drags it down, and it made me remember "Oh yeah, this is a shonen filler movie". Like I dunno, I can't help but wonder if they feel "audiences are expecting this from the film" when making it, so things such as the overly drawn out fight and power ups, as well as the corny villain are kind of forced into a narrative that doesn't really need them to be interesting. But those are just my two cents.
I totally agree. BUT, Deku drop-kicking the main villain from across the room after going Super Saiyan Full Cowling is awesome lmao That's just the dumb monkey shounen fan brain in me though
Idk I get what they're saying but I feel anytime this criticism is brought up you get mfs saying stuff like you. Ik you're saying it in defense of shines but all it ever does is sell it short when ya lob it at mfs who simply prefer a story with substance. It implies all these stories are are meathead romps that are nothing but action for actions sake. Dragon balls one of the most basic shonen out there and it usually understood that integrating the fighting WITH the story rather than pausing it for it because ''since its a shonen, it just has to have fighting I guess'' Goku vs freeza isn't memorable just because it's a fight, otherwise goku vs dr wheelo would be equally as reverered. It's memorable because it was a storyof a tryrant Hyped up for 50 chapters, slowly losing their sanity as the result orn how far they pushed the heroes and created his worst enemy as a result of the cruelty of his life choices We didn't notice as kids but our brains did, it's why we felt such a wave of relief when goku finally arrived and an even bigger one when he landed a clean golden fist right in his gut. The most memorable action set pieces and fight scenes in general are always the ones that had something to say beyond the spectacle. Coolness for coolness sake is great! I just think Op wanting/favoring the action to actually be integrated well and have a point is as ''anti-shonen'' as you make it seem and really undersells the core powner it actually has a genre and story telling device to tell its stories Idk man, as a shonen fan myself, I also take a liking to the stories that are just well written rather than lying on the glitter to imitate gold.
I saw so much of the process behind this video (even watching some of the movies with Mathwiz!) and it was still completely absorbing, I watched it completely transfixed for the entire runtime. So good to finally see it come to fruition!
I think one of the most unique experiences I had with a Shonen Anime movie of all things was the Assassination Classroom movie "365 Days", I kinda went into it knowing it was basically a glorified recap movie with extra new scenes that made the movie act as a clip show of the series' entire story. Literally just having Karma and Nagisa reflect on their one year with Korosensei seven years prior. But something strange happened when I started watching it... I felt a similar connection they did. As the audience and fan of the series, I was able to completely feel like I was with them, reflecting on the journey we went through. It's very hard for me to feel this way about clip shows and recap movies, but this movie not only succeeded in making me sob at the emotional parts all over again, but also getting me to feel like I actually got something out of the whole thing. The whole series and this movie was something I *HIGHLY* recommend, and it's been one of my biggest comfort media that left the biggest impact on me this year.
I'm having flashbacks to AX 2018 now, with its hours-long lines where con staff would herd people back into the "approved" line locations every five minutes because everyone would naturally gravitate to the shade for self-preservation instead. And how I miraculously talked my friend out of camping out overnight to be first in line for that HeroAca movie... good times.
My favorite part of this whole affair is when the story retroactively look back at the movies and canonize them in some way. Such is the case with MHA, which was a highlight of the latest manga chapters for me. Learning that the 2 heroes movie explores a discarded idea to the series ending also made me accept its ideas much more readily, rather than dismiss them as fanservice. Now I've got the nostalgic urge to watch some movies again. If you'll excuse me, I need to go rewatch the Bleach trilogy divided into 10 minutes chunks as unlisted videos with spanish fansubs on my own youtube channel. Relive the good old days, maybe cry a little, possibly even take another stab at making anime analysis videos.
This is actually something Pokémon did with their last stretch of Ash episodes. The main thing with them was that Ash had finally achieved his dream and went on a bunch of nostalgic adventures catching up with various characters he'd met on his journey. There's a Latias following him around for a few episodes, and it's revealed to be the same Latias he met in Movie 5. Essentially said the movies were canon to his adventures, too.
I feel like the biggest issue with Shonen filler movies is that they come from the desire to expand upon the brand of the franchise, not the actual ideas of the series, and if you wanted to write a movie with cool ideas or decisions, that is probably not the place for it. However, that is mostly an extension of the demand that exists for the series in the first place, and the way that the giant hype stone just keeps rolling and crushing other things in its path. The best decision companies could make would be to bet on people who have a weird or interesting idea, as most of these films are safe financial bets whether they appeal to the sensibilities of the fans or not. The best thing an audience could do is engage in a wider media diet that isn't entirely centered around the small set of endless Shonen series they are currently watching, so they don't end up feeding money into movies that only exist to exploit their enthusiasm.
It's interesting how much of Shonen adaptation is just seen as a conduit for the mangaka's work, not as art unto itself. In many cases, people mainly pay attention to the way an adaptation improves its source material when a particular fight is either notably impressive or directed by an known animator, and almost every time the show's staff makes writing decisions at all the work is reviled out of hand.
@@murderman8578 I mean, I think people's slavish commitment to the source material over anything new that causes whole adaptations to be thrown away, but same diff honestly.
@@murderman8578 I mean, in a non-shonen example, tell that to half of Excel Saga. Also, many of people's favorite moments from the YYH, most of the beginning of Trigun, and numerous other examples I cannot think of. The problem is, in the current industry, the only reason people ever deviate from the manga is when they need to cut corners, so people get the impression that no change can ever help the series, regardless of how many problems the original has.
Great video, and I love the direction you went towards the end about anime production. This is a topic that needs more discussion on youtube I feel. Maybe this video will be the one to lead us to seeing more of it.
Well, there have been such videos over the years that deep dive into the production of individual series or the industry as a whole. -The Canipa Effect has been consistently putting out videos about various topics in the anime industry like digital technology, 3D translations and the state of the industry as a whole, individual studios like UFOtable & P.A Works and the production of individual series from the Nier Automata anime to My Hero Academia to Land of the Lustrous. -AnimeAjay & Forgotten Relic have both extensively covered the Dragon Ball franchise and other anime on rare occasions and Skippy has done breakdowns on most episodes of the Wano arc of One Piece. -Yonkou Productions has also done videos on One Piece as well as the anime industry as a whole. -The Animators Dormitory Channel which is part of a program that has been ongoing since 2011 about building a better means for training upcoming animators has put out a bunch of videos about the state of the anime industry what goes into work life and earnings of a couple of animators that have joined the Animators Dormitory Project among other topics. -Dong Chang is an animator who has done work in the anime industry who gives insider knowledge and how-tos about various tasks while working on an anime production, even providing official terms to refer to things that anime fans may have recognized but never knew a name for like ‘man-pu’ which refers to anime iconography like the exaggerated vein pop, sweat drop, the soul leaving the mouth, etc..
It's interesting because nowadyas the trend seems to be to adapt an arc of the series that can stand on its won into a movie. It's cool to see some arcs with really good animation but i like the idea of getting a bit extra, something new we haven't seen before
This kinda goes hand in hand with battle shounen anime taking breaks between major story arcs now instead of trying to keep the show running constantly until the manga finishes however many years that takes. (Or in the case of Demon Slayer, also having a completed story to work with instead of one in progress probably made it easier to go "Hey Mugen Train would work better as a movie than a season of TV" before pulling a Gundam Unicorn and _also_ recutting the movie footage into a season of TV anyway.)
Loved one piece movie 6 but my first time viewing it felt akward how hosoda managed to believably depict the crew falling apart but no time at all showing it come back together. But maybe thats part of how the strawhats are special cause of how they'll come back together. But i would have appreciated maybe an extra 5 minuets to show them making up
never really cared that much if a new Shonen movie is canon or not. If I like the series and characters enough I’ll likely get some enjoyment out of it and in some cases, a non-canon movie or filler in general might at least have a character or concept that was cool enough that’ll have some fans kinda wish it was canon.
just a heads up, Summer wars is the fully realized rendition of the Children's War Games section of the digimon movie and it is one of the best movies i've ever seen.
I love the Baron Omastsuri movie so much. As much as a family as the crew is. You would have some serious conflicts from time to time. And while I certainly understand from some people's pov that there is some OOC moments at times. I think in a more realistic manner (at least in terms of character interaction) It makes sense for them.
I interpreted it as the flower/island itself somehow making them act that way to drive them apart like Omatsuri wanted. In either case though I think it was used to great affect to make everything feel Wrong for both us and Luffy.
was waiting for the one piece movie 6 name drop this whole time just to find out it was the purpose of the video all along when you mentioned it😭🙏great video
Fairy Tail has an interesting case with the second movie where certain background events for the film were planted in Final Season. In fact, a scene in the third to last episode included an event that was the one-off villain's origins but in a way that you'd never realize outside of the movie. It's a very diagetic way of integrating a movie into canon without you needing to have seen it. On a western side of things, Seasons 8 and 9 of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic are built off of the movie that premiered during Season 7's airing with the events leading to the Friendship School's establishment.
Pretty good overview of shonen movies. Personally would have loved to hear which ones you liked from the large swath of movies you have seen. I also realized that american superhero movies have a slight advantage over shonen movies due to having numerous takes on the characters. Don't need to stick to canon if there are a bunch of canons and have accepted stand-alone stories. Not to say anime doesn't have its own franchise movies with looser canon or multiple adaptations (like Lupin III or Doraemon), but usually I don't see the complaints of shonen movies levied at those films.
Well, reading between the lines I got the impression that he thinks Omatsuri is a gem, which it is (best anime original film imo). Aside from that idk.
I love seeing anime movies in the theaters. I think my favorite experiences were seeing Promare in a packed theater full of fans. We cheered at all the Gainax and Trigger references (I yelled “PIERCE THE HEAVENS!!” when the obligatory giant robot showed up).
If you wanna impress me with a shonen tie-in movie; you gotta do something the main series can't or won't do. Having a character arc helps too, especially if it belongs to the main character. Now if you're exploring themes or ideas or the main story and setting? Now we're talking! I've been riding high off One Piece Film Red since I saw it in theatres.
something I'm not surprised you didn't mention but that I felt also warranted some clarification is that the my hero academia movies have a much squishier relationship between filler and non filler than most people think. horikoshi himself provided most of the character designs for movie original characters, a rough outline on the plot, and has at least partial credit on the screenplay for all three of them. he's also written cameos for all of them into the plot of the manga, so while they aren't essential to the plot, they aren't not canon either. everyone including the author consented to the existence of these movies the issue with the canon vs non-canon debate itself I think it that it fails to consider that artists collaborate with each other sometimes. even in scenarios where the author didn't write something in the anime there's nothing to stop them from retconning it into the source material if they like it enough
My only experience with My Hero Academia is watching the second movie with some friends. But one thing I noticed about the movie was that the allusions to the series' other villains, and how it bends over backwards to return everything to the status quo at the end, certainly makes it clear that the staff wanted you to believe that the film was cannon.
We know for a fact that One Piece films and TV specials pulled away resources from the TV show during the 00s and 2010s so that concern under Anime Production isn´t without merit. A decent research paper exists about this very issue. Not that Toei´s one chapter an ep adaption could be salvaged at that point.
Also, just an anecdote but AX2018 was also the con I met a bunch of my lifelong friends in person, and the Air BNB we were in had its Air Conditioning break right at the peak of the heatwave, and we had a whole adventure obtaining a $50 10 inch fan just to make it 5% less awful. Incredible memory we've all never forgoitten about, unlike that hero aca movie where I remember nothing about it
Seriously though, super glad you're back Math. Anything you make I'll be interested in and this was no exception. Great video I'm sure to rewatch again!
I had gone to AX 2018 but I will be honest, I don't remember this movie premiering nor do I recall the long line. I think I was trying to avoid being outside for too long since I had forgotten to bring sunscreen that time.
Every time I'm offered accessibility to a new Detective Conan movie, I loose my bannanas. So many modern ones don't even have a "mystery". I would not call Fist of the Blue Sapphire or Darkest Nightmare a "mystery". And those are both relatively old at this point. But every time, I get excited because I want to see Shinichi interact with his friends. And for the new cycle of movies, what bannanas action set pieces. New full stories with Kaito throwing Shinichi out of a blimp, or Hatori catching ya boi flying across the sky. Ran dodging a bullet point blank. Shin focusing on Ai for once instead of Ran. Sometimes you get a story with heart. Sometimes you get mindless bonkers outrageous set peices. Sometimes you get both. Occasionally you get neither, because they can't all be winners. But every time, I get something to be excited about.
I think it's also important to remark that the same basic template/framework also applies to "Shoujo filler movies" (or at least stuff like the Cardcaptor Sakura movies) or Precure Movies. I think the issue is that sure people criticize shonen manga as being formulaic but ultimately every mangaka will execute the basic template of "rescue arc"/"tournament arc" in their own manner while non-canon movies are drawing from the same framework and the usual restrictions that come with non-canon material. Even when a movie starts like One Piece Stampede starts with a fun boat race which is something not often seen in the manga, it just ends with the generic evil guy turning big and being finished by everyone hitting it. I think what elevated Film Red was actually committing to the musical aspect and Uta being an atypical original character but the part with the big monster they have to hit at the same time still showed up and I tuned off. Also wouldn't consider the Dragon Ball Super filler movies, they are continuing the plot from where the series ended, same with JJK0, but that's more that the manga/anime expects you to know about Yuta. Also that The First Slam Dunk/JJK0/Mugen Train were also big hits with Slam Dunk doing better than Film Red so I think ultimately audiences prefer something drawing from the source material. Also fun fact the first Dr Slump movie is actually just adapting chapters from the manga so it's technically not filler/non-canon.
35:01 this is my speculation as to why the Black Clover movie was made, when the TV anime stopped they were too caught up to the manga so my guess is that they made that movie so the core staff could stay together and work on something BC for a couple of years while the manga got ahead. I really hope they make another season to finish the Spade arc now that both it and the movie are done.
Great video. There are definitely anime original movies that I’ve loved, mostly for amazing animation and fight scenes, but also sometimes for narrative reasons. You kept mentioning that among the many movies you’ve seen for this video, you found some real gems. Is there any chance we could get a list of recommendations?
As a guy that was excited to see the first MHA movie, let me give some context: *First of all, at least in Latin America, this movie could have been (and ended up being) the first time we heard MHA in Spanish since it didn't have a dub before. *The movie seemed to be a bit more than just filler since it was supposedly "confirmed canon by Horikoshi". Not only that but it also had two manga one shots (one which tells a bit of how All Might lost Nana and why he left Japan, this one would also be turned into a short previous to the movie) and in the trailer we saw a young All Might so many were theoryzing we would see All Might's past. *There was an infamous Kachako fanart of the movie where Bakugou and Uraraka were dancing and it looked pretty realistic so both the Kachako fans and haters where extremely curious about how would that happen. *This was for me and probably many other fans the first non Dragon Ball nor Pokemon anime movie so we didn't know about all those "Believe me guys, this is totally plot relevant" clickbaity tricks. Man, that fifty second introduction of the video cracked a lot of old memories 😂
I feel like the newer DBS films, Broly and Superhero also are more character driven compared to most of the DBZ films, barring Fusion Reborn(which is more about Goku and Vegeta's dynamic, than about Janemba himself, unlike other DBZ films) and Wrath of the Dragon. Though I'll always like first Cooler movie for his hubris and cool design, and Bojack Unbound for its artstyle and setting being stand out at least. I'll have to go through the Yu Yu Hakusho movies at some point. They seem cool and tackle the ideas similarly to what you said about Naruto, where the established characters act as a point of inspiration to the film original cast.
Really enjoyed this video! The discussion was great. Just finished rewatching yyh and I didn’t even know there was a film for it. Also, thoughts on OP movie 4? I actually didn’t think it was that bad! Plus the narrative with the child was really engaging!
One Piece movie 4 surprised me, I enjoyed it a lot. I didn't initially expect much out of the OP films pre-Strong World (outside of movie 6), but the narrative thread in movie 4 is pretty solid.
>there are some gems Ok well what are they??? No like dead serious I generally agree with all the ppoints made but like what of these movies do you rec? I thought you'd say so at some point.
As far as shonen filler movies go, I remember really enjoying the third Inuyasha movie as a kid. It actually fit within the show by mostly elaborating upon lore and a specific supporting character that was already present in the main story. So while it does have a similar formula to the main series with a movie-only villain and conflict arising, there still felt like there was some value for long-time fans in watching it beyond some entertainment for an hour and a half. It somehow struck a good balance of fitting within the series' canon, but didn't feel so simplistic as an "extended episode of the week." Obv not saying it's the only one to do that or even that it was the most successful. But when I tried thinking back on ones I've actually seen (i.e. no Dragonball, Gintama, etc...), it stood out in addition to some of the ones already mentioned in the video like Baron Omatsuri. I feel like Film Red tried to do that to an extent, at least with the Shanks marketing, but like... obviously we aren't going to get that much on a character that's been so under wraps in the main series this long and its mostly going to focus on Uta beyond a couple flashbacks. I feel like nowadays, I just want an interesting and unique vision when it comes to shonen non-canon movies, whether it's purely visual, how its directed compared to the tv show, or it's storytelling standing apart (both of FMA's films, Beautiful Dreamer, Baron of Omatsuri, etc...). But I understand on a financial aspect why it makes more sense to just go the "extended, higher stakes episode with potentially(?) upgraded animation" route. And it's not like that means its automatically bad at least, but I might not be rushing out to go watch it.
I'll definitely give the Inuyasha movies a shot whenever I get around to reading/watching that series. I watched about 20 episodes over a year ago thinking I might add it into this project, but I fell off of it and haven't gotten back yet lol
I might make a separate video going into some of the films on a more individual level, but I didn't want to promise something like that in the video itself. Wanted this one to cover the subject in a more broad sense, because that's what kinda got me interested in them in the first place, but that also means I left a lot out. Just haven't quite figured out what I want to do with it.
@@MathWizHQ Aha, good to know. I really like anime movies for the simple fact that they have the freedom to do a lot of crazy wacky stuff without affecting the main story and lore. We also get a chance to see how different writers and directors interpret these characters, like turning Naruto into a heartthrob in the Shippuden era movies, sometimes the results are good and sometimes they're not.
Something I've never seen an anime do before is for One Piece Film Z the TV anime made an original 4-episode filler arc to introduce TV anime watchers into the movie's canon. Since there's no reason Luffy's crew would be at the film's events in-between Fishman Island and Punk Hazard, the filler arc introduced Z as a character prior to the movie's release and attempts to transition these events into the events of the movie. Even though none of the filler characters are mentioned in the movie itself. They never did this since.
the fun thing for me with anime filler movies is I'm kinda all over the place on which ones I'll watch. One Piece is my favorite anime but the only movies I've seen are Film Z & Film Red & for different reasons. I saw Film Z because it was in the theater room at one Sakura Con I went to & I just said "fuck it I have no panels or tourneys in my schedule atm" while I actively went to a theater to watch Film Red because "OH SHIT THE SINGING VOICE OF THE NEW CHARACTER IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE JAPANESE ARTISTS *AND* SAID CHARACTER IS SHANK'S DAUGHTER MEANING 99% CHANCE AT SHANKS SCREENTIME"
It's interesting that all anime movies (as far as i know, specially the original ones) are stand alone. I think it'd be intersting if, for example, the next 3 One Piece films were thought of as a trilogy. The story could be much more interesting and they could make some memorable villians that are developed as the trilogy goes
Not all anime movies are standalone. Ghost in the Shell had a sequel for example. Some of the Gundam movies are also direct sequels to previous series. That being said, I think the reason you don't see a lot of planned sequels or trilogies in anime is because the expensive and time consuming nature of animation production probably makes the staff not want to plan for a sequel they might never get.
The only show I bothered watching a lot of these filler movies for is One Piece. It's mostly stinkers, either bad retellings(whether directly, or regurgitating old villains and scenes with a new coat of paint) or the overindulgent recent movies where characters that hadn't appeared in hundreds of chapters showed up again to do some lame punch-ups. Talk about undercutting the manga just to have some stuff for the trailers. In the manga, Luffy hasn't met Aokiji again for over a decade of real-world time. It would be something I eagerly await as a reader, except that in Film Z, they took a bath together. It's just silly. In Film Red, it's even worse, since Shanks is a major feature of it despite only appearing a handful of brief times in the manga so far. That kinda stuff should be saved for when it matters. However, there were three movies I thought were cool! Clockwork Island Adventure is like an hour long and took place during or close to East Blue, it's a short, funny adventure that looks a lot better than anything from that era of One Piece but still has that early style. It's not exactly moving, but it is a good time. Strong World is great, it feels like a canonical episode that got cut for time, which I believe is the actual case. If it wouldn't undercut the introduction of Marineford and Impel Down, it would slot perfectly in after Thriller Bark, and it's a really fun movie. I don't have a high opinion of the later One Piece movies in this "style", Red, Z, Stampede or Gold. But Strong World is a wonderful movie that feels like the author of the manga wrote the whole thing. And Baron Omatsuri is an amazing original work, the kinda stuff you get when a strong director does a take on the material in his own way but still respects the themes of the original. The mood is unique, the animation and art style is completely different from normal, but it still feels like One Piece. As far as I'm concerned, it's a Mamoru Hosoda movie that's just as good as Wolf Children. I think Film Red stinks, but at least the songs were tight. Ado is a great singer, and it was welcome to have a One Piece movie with a bunch of songs.
I've never had the strong opinion that movie tie-ins are bad (your video introduced me to the argument) but I found your rebuttal unconvincing. Just because it makes sense in the current industry w.r.t. breeding talent and *keeping* it, (which I agree could strengthen the TV production in non-direct ways) doesn't mean that filler movies can't be a waste of man hours. "Filler" movies are a format whose limitations this video explores, and there are many limitations to point to. The common argument is bemoaning exactly that, maybe filler movies are just not that good. The common opinion hasn't done the research to know that movie-ins are a sacrificial child for the industry's gears, but they feel that movie tie-ins ought not to exist. At the core, you're trying to rebuke an 'ought' with an 'it is' (descriptive) argument, and the latter type of argument was used to justify things like slavery in their time. "That's just how the world works" can be used to justify *anything*, sorry for the dark turn. A descriptive argument can enlighten us to what 'can possibly be' but it is meaningless pitted against what 'ought' to be.
I don't think I agree with what you're saying. Not just the jump to slavery, though that is a pretty drastic shift from the subject of the video. When I said "that's not the anime industry we have," I wasn't saying that as a defense of the system. Ideals of "what ought to be" are important to have, but if I just stopped at what I think "ought to be" in the industry, that wouldn't address the practical conditions that plague modern anime production. Getting caught up in my own image of an ideal anime industry wasn't really the point of my video. I think finding the practical ways in which those ideals can be applied is important to making those necessary changes actually happen. I just don't think the tie-in movies are one of those necessary changes. If someone who has considered those practical issues disagrees with me on that point, that might just be an "agree to disagree" situation.
@@MathWizHQ I might've been after an epic counterpoint when that isn't even the objective in that section of the video. You've got to wonder as the video maker, if the section provoked the misunderstanding, but it's likely I also brought an argumentative lens into my watching of the video, and into that comment. You're right in this comment that arguments about ideals are cheap, and exposing them to reality (through some research) probably improves them, which is what the section is merely doing. Practically, yeah, somehow getting rid of movie tie-ins would just be attending to a symptom rather than the source of the problems of the industry.
@@averesenso Anime production is definitely something I'm gonna have to keep studying if I want to bring it up again in the future. There's room for improvement on my end for sure.
I think people just generally want project like Mugen Train, The First Slam Dunk, JJK0, Super Broly or the upcoming Reze arc Chainsaw Man movie which are prequels, sequels or adaptations of the source material. Also I think the video ignores that the MHA anime took a hit in quality since they started putting people like Umakoshi into the movies and the adaptation itself suffered from trying to cram the movie into the canon/lore. Sure Umakoshi worked on other projects like the Doremi movie, Film Red and Witch from Mercury but still seems mostly preoccupied with MHA movies.
I've never understood the canon vs non-canon discourse. Why people wouldn't want to see more of the worlds and characters that they love is odd to me. I like that they exist outside the primary story line, it makes the world's feel larger and allows for new, interesting ideas. To be honest the idea that people want canon movies so they can pay £15 to see a slightly better animated version of something they would get anyways through the TV anime is strange to me. Mugen train for example I found extremely uninteresting as it was essentially a few anime episodes put together without an ad break. I like Demon Slayer as much as the next person but I like my movies to feel like movies. Having said that ultimately the thing that matters is whether it's good or not. People say they don't like non-canon movies or that there are too many Superhero movies but that's mostly the case because their quality is generally poor.
Non canon movies will have contradicting details to the canon lore, timeline wise not make sense, and ofcourse moments power scaling issues that dont make sense with again, the canon material. Then theres the fact that, they want Author involvement so that the story isnt on the high chance of being a messy story that became a waste of time viewing.
you didn't like Mugen Train because demon slayer sucks ass, not for whatever reason you tried to cope with. Literally the only saving grace from that boring ass movie was the final fight.
You don't need to reevaluate your stance, sometimes these movies filler are indeed trash 😂 Some are good tho and added context into the story. But, *some* are bad.
I wonder, has Mexico, and to a much further extent the rest of South America and Mesoamerica, ever had a legendary franchise like how Japan and the United States have had theirs? I know that we have Zorro, La Llorona, and a few couple others but aside from those, do we have anything much more modern or special or that took specific inspiration from certain historical events and created something new and unique? I know that this is a totally out-of-left-field question, but I would genuinely like to know. How is Mexico doing compared to other countries, it really and honestly seems to live in a perpetual shadow compared to most other countries, and most Mexicans on UA-cam that I know of grew up with either Anime or more Northern American hand-me-downs, but I haven't heard of any diamonds in the rough. All I ever heard about was some very adult and kind of, for a lack of a better term, stupid flash animation, Novellas, and some very niche comedies like Chavo del Ocho or 30 Minutos, etcetera. I am genuinely curious if I am going to be the first Mexican to ever pull those countries out of their shadow and create some relatively legendary things (I might be hyping myself up a bit after all the ideas I have are barely even finished, much less begun in production), or that maybe there might be some diamonds in the rough or failed projects that never saw the light of day or were ever given a chance.
I have no problem whit toei making two DBZ movies in the 90s due to DBZ being popular in the 90s. But it doesn't change the fact most of those movies were terrible. Toei knew fans would watch the movies no matter what until the movies started making less money in the mid 90s. They were so predictable at that point you already knew how things were gonna turn out before watching them. What worst how the movies only made goku look better then everyone while others characters were getting there ass kicked by the main villain or his minions. Who goes to watch movies to see there favorite characters lose all the time? Especially vegeta who was a big time fan favorite that the movies made him look like a loser who didn't know how to fight. He never use any of his special attacks like final flash in none of the 90s movies compare to goku who not only use every moves from the canon series but get new ones too. The movies got so bad that GT didn't get a movie. Then again GT was so bad it didn't deserve a movie. The movies would get better whit battle of the gods and other characters finally get better treatment from the staff for a change. The only bad movie of the four made is resurrection of F which is where everyone finally agrees the vegeta disrespect needs to stop. Since then vegeta been treated well in the movies for once. I don't mind filler movies all of them don't always have to perfect but atleast treat other characters whit a little respect and not just make it all about the lead character.
The hxh movies is a Terrible example of how to do a filler movies. The bleach movies are a great example of how to do filler movies The my hero movies are a decent example though I personally thought that the second mha movie was phenomenal.
One Piece movie 6 (Baron Omatsuri), Dragon Ball movie 13 (Broly Second Coming) and Saint Seiya movie 5 (Heaven Chapter Overture)... those are the 3 masterpieces of shonen films. Truly spiritual works. There are films in the film school canon that are not as good as these 3
24:49 ah, another person who thinks that Canon and continuity are the same thing. (fun fact: as long as something is officially made or commissioned, then it's canon. So every dragon ball movie is Canon since they're officially made.)
call me a purist, but original source material is basically the word of god when it comes to these things, anything outside out of it basically shouldn't exist
I dont think they shouldn't exist I mean Hell Bardock from dragon ball wouldn't exist with that mind set but I do think said films need to be good like hell not having watching more than 30 seconds off this video I can't help but feel bad for the people who waited 6 hours to watch a thoroughly mediocre movie and I love my hero academia
Wow, I thought there wouldn't be any surprises in 2023...but welcome back
almost into the new year, too
And then there's detective conan. Where the movies aren't canon but characters and plot points get introduced in the movies and after that just start showing up in the manga without ever getting properly introduced there
that's also happening in bnha to
And then the movies' and show's depiction of them don't even really match. Shiratori in the first four movies is practically a completely different character from how he is in the show/Movie 5-onwards. The fact that starting with Movie 5 he has a new actor (Admittedly only because the old one died) doesn't exactly help.
@@brutalnobody5240 If you're talking about Deku's braces in the Villain Hunt Arc, it's technically not out of nowhere. IIRC Two Heroes is the only movie considered "canon" to both the anime and manga, and in the main series all Deku says about them is that he got them shipped from America, because that's all the reader really needs to know to get the gyst
@@dip.918 all of the mha movies are canon btw, all MHA media is canon
@@brutalnobody5240 not it's not, all of the MHA movies are canon and always have been
I think, from my perspective, the Hero Academia films are a good example of my problem with these films. It feels like there's almost an obligation to go back to specific formulas when it comes to these movies, and I think it drags them down. The third film, World Heroes' MIssion, I think starts out really strong since it gives opportunity to see a lot more of the world you don't normally see in the series, with a bit of a different dynamic between Deku and the new character (almost a road type, bromance film). But then the stuff with the cult and the climactic fight of the film just drags it down, and it made me remember "Oh yeah, this is a shonen filler movie". Like I dunno, I can't help but wonder if they feel "audiences are expecting this from the film" when making it, so things such as the overly drawn out fight and power ups, as well as the corny villain are kind of forced into a narrative that doesn't really need them to be interesting.
But those are just my two cents.
I totally agree.
BUT, Deku drop-kicking the main villain from across the room after going Super Saiyan Full Cowling is awesome lmao
That's just the dumb monkey shounen fan brain in me though
@@dip.918 Haha I imagine it would have been more fun to see on the big screen. I didn't watch it until after the fact.
i think you dont like shonen manga/anime in general
@@tobiasarevalo9929 I'm sorry, have we spoken before?
Idk I get what they're saying but I feel anytime this criticism is brought up you get mfs saying stuff like you.
Ik you're saying it in defense of shines but all it ever does is sell it short when ya lob it at mfs who simply prefer a story with substance.
It implies all these stories are are meathead romps that are nothing but action for actions sake.
Dragon balls one of the most basic shonen out there and it usually understood that integrating the fighting WITH the story rather than pausing it for it because ''since its a shonen, it just has to have fighting I guess''
Goku vs freeza isn't memorable just because it's a fight, otherwise goku vs dr wheelo would be equally as reverered.
It's memorable because it was a storyof a tryrant Hyped up for 50 chapters, slowly losing their sanity as the result orn how far they pushed the heroes and created his worst enemy as a result of the cruelty of his life choices
We didn't notice as kids but our brains did, it's why we felt such a wave of relief when goku finally arrived and an even bigger one when he landed a clean golden fist right in his gut.
The most memorable action set pieces and fight scenes in general are always the ones that had something to say beyond the spectacle.
Coolness for coolness sake is great! I just think Op wanting/favoring the action to actually be integrated well and have a point is as ''anti-shonen'' as you make it seem and really undersells the core powner it actually has a genre and story telling device to tell its stories
Idk man, as a shonen fan myself, I also take a liking to the stories that are just well written rather than lying on the glitter to imitate gold.
I saw so much of the process behind this video (even watching some of the movies with Mathwiz!) and it was still completely absorbing, I watched it completely transfixed for the entire runtime. So good to finally see it come to fruition!
The Torishima to Mathwiz Toriyama?
I think one of the most unique experiences I had with a Shonen Anime movie of all things was the Assassination Classroom movie "365 Days", I kinda went into it knowing it was basically a glorified recap movie with extra new scenes that made the movie act as a clip show of the series' entire story. Literally just having Karma and Nagisa reflect on their one year with Korosensei seven years prior.
But something strange happened when I started watching it... I felt a similar connection they did. As the audience and fan of the series, I was able to completely feel like I was with them, reflecting on the journey we went through. It's very hard for me to feel this way about clip shows and recap movies, but this movie not only succeeded in making me sob at the emotional parts all over again, but also getting me to feel like I actually got something out of the whole thing.
The whole series and this movie was something I *HIGHLY* recommend, and it's been one of my biggest comfort media that left the biggest impact on me this year.
I'm having flashbacks to AX 2018 now, with its hours-long lines where con staff would herd people back into the "approved" line locations every five minutes because everyone would naturally gravitate to the shade for self-preservation instead. And how I miraculously talked my friend out of camping out overnight to be first in line for that HeroAca movie... good times.
My favorite part of this whole affair is when the story retroactively look back at the movies and canonize them in some way. Such is the case with MHA, which was a highlight of the latest manga chapters for me. Learning that the 2 heroes movie explores a discarded idea to the series ending also made me accept its ideas much more readily, rather than dismiss them as fanservice. Now I've got the nostalgic urge to watch some movies again. If you'll excuse me, I need to go rewatch the Bleach trilogy divided into 10 minutes chunks as unlisted videos with spanish fansubs on my own youtube channel. Relive the good old days, maybe cry a little, possibly even take another stab at making anime analysis videos.
This is actually something Pokémon did with their last stretch of Ash episodes. The main thing with them was that Ash had finally achieved his dream and went on a bunch of nostalgic adventures catching up with various characters he'd met on his journey.
There's a Latias following him around for a few episodes, and it's revealed to be the same Latias he met in Movie 5. Essentially said the movies were canon to his adventures, too.
Btw yes; Summer Wars and Wolf Children are both certified 10/10 bangers
Yes, Summer Wars... the better Digimon Movie.
I feel like the biggest issue with Shonen filler movies is that they come from the desire to expand upon the brand of the franchise, not the actual ideas of the series, and if you wanted to write a movie with cool ideas or decisions, that is probably not the place for it. However, that is mostly an extension of the demand that exists for the series in the first place, and the way that the giant hype stone just keeps rolling and crushing other things in its path. The best decision companies could make would be to bet on people who have a weird or interesting idea, as most of these films are safe financial bets whether they appeal to the sensibilities of the fans or not. The best thing an audience could do is engage in a wider media diet that isn't entirely centered around the small set of endless Shonen series they are currently watching, so they don't end up feeding money into movies that only exist to exploit their enthusiasm.
It's interesting how much of Shonen adaptation is just seen as a conduit for the mangaka's work, not as art unto itself. In many cases, people mainly pay attention to the way an adaptation improves its source material when a particular fight is either notably impressive or directed by an known animator, and almost every time the show's staff makes writing decisions at all the work is reviled out of hand.
The writing decisions will cause the whole Adaptation to be thrown away
@@murderman8578 I mean, I think people's slavish commitment to the source material over anything new that causes whole adaptations to be thrown away, but same diff honestly.
@@jpickens189 mostly those new additions are unwelcome and unnecessary
@@murderman8578 I mean, in a non-shonen example, tell that to half of Excel Saga. Also, many of people's favorite moments from the YYH, most of the beginning of Trigun, and numerous other examples I cannot think of. The problem is, in the current industry, the only reason people ever deviate from the manga is when they need to cut corners, so people get the impression that no change can ever help the series, regardless of how many problems the original has.
@@jpickens189 I said Mostly
Great video, and I love the direction you went towards the end about anime production. This is a topic that needs more discussion on youtube I feel. Maybe this video will be the one to lead us to seeing more of it.
Well, there have been such videos over the years that deep dive into the production of individual series or the industry as a whole.
-The Canipa Effect has been consistently putting out videos about various topics in the anime industry like digital technology, 3D translations and the state of the industry as a whole, individual studios like UFOtable & P.A Works and the production of individual series from the Nier Automata anime to My Hero Academia to Land of the Lustrous.
-AnimeAjay & Forgotten Relic have both extensively covered the Dragon Ball franchise and other anime on rare occasions and Skippy has done breakdowns on most episodes of the Wano arc of One Piece.
-Yonkou Productions has also done videos on One Piece as well as the anime industry as a whole.
-The Animators Dormitory Channel which is part of a program that has been ongoing since 2011 about building a better means for training upcoming animators has put out a bunch of videos about the state of the anime industry what goes into work life and earnings of a couple of animators that have joined the Animators Dormitory Project among other topics.
-Dong Chang is an animator who has done work in the anime industry who gives insider knowledge and how-tos about various tasks while working on an anime production, even providing official terms to refer to things that anime fans may have recognized but never knew a name for like ‘man-pu’ which refers to anime iconography like the exaggerated vein pop, sweat drop, the soul leaving the mouth, etc..
You're back! It's great to hear from you again!
Honestly FIRE video. Glad to see you finally get this project done!
Thanks! It's been a long time coming.
It's interesting because nowadyas the trend seems to be to adapt an arc of the series that can stand on its won into a movie. It's cool to see some arcs with really good animation but i like the idea of getting a bit extra, something new we haven't seen before
This kinda goes hand in hand with battle shounen anime taking breaks between major story arcs now instead of trying to keep the show running constantly until the manga finishes however many years that takes. (Or in the case of Demon Slayer, also having a completed story to work with instead of one in progress probably made it easier to go "Hey Mugen Train would work better as a movie than a season of TV" before pulling a Gundam Unicorn and _also_ recutting the movie footage into a season of TV anyway.)
16:00 made me lol, good to have you back Mathwiz
Cool discussion video! My favorite fact about a anime movie is that they used real chanting from fans in the DBS Broly movie
Nice video!! Glad to see u were able to finish it on time
Seeing you talk about tokusatsu was something else, great video as always
decent chance this video finally gets me into toku lol
Was it the Littlekuriboh tweets?@@MathWizHQ
@@hombrelagartoenemigod first I'm hearing of that lol
Loved one piece movie 6 but my first time viewing it felt akward how hosoda managed to believably depict the crew falling apart but no time at all showing it come back together. But maybe thats part of how the strawhats are special cause of how they'll come back together. But i would have appreciated maybe an extra 5 minuets to show them making up
This is why MHA movies are peak, completely canon side stories that get referenced and even set up some plot things
never really cared that much if a new Shonen movie is canon or not. If I like the series and characters enough I’ll likely get some enjoyment out of it and in some cases, a non-canon movie or filler in general might at least have a character or concept that was cool enough that’ll have some fans kinda wish it was canon.
THE MATHWIIIIIZZZZZ
THE MATHWIZ IS BAAAAAACK
Excellent analysis. Thanks for the video Mathwiz.
Always appreciate your insight and breakdowns.
That’s An amazing video,you deserve more views!!
just a heads up, Summer wars is the fully realized rendition of the Children's War Games section of the digimon movie and it is one of the best movies i've ever seen.
most shonen movies are just fun to watch. a simple plot with good fights and straight fanservice
Holy shit! the goat has returned!!!
This was a great discussion with some really thoughtful points just like all your vids
I love the Baron Omastsuri movie so much. As much as a family as the crew is. You would have some serious conflicts from time to time. And while I certainly understand from some people's pov that there is some OOC moments at times. I think in a more realistic manner (at least in terms of character interaction) It makes sense for them.
I interpreted it as the flower/island itself somehow making them act that way to drive them apart like Omatsuri wanted. In either case though I think it was used to great affect to make everything feel Wrong for both us and Luffy.
was waiting for the one piece movie 6 name drop this whole time just to find out it was the purpose of the video all along when you mentioned it😭🙏great video
Fairy Tail has an interesting case with the second movie where certain background events for the film were planted in Final Season. In fact, a scene in the third to last episode included an event that was the one-off villain's origins but in a way that you'd never realize outside of the movie. It's a very diagetic way of integrating a movie into canon without you needing to have seen it.
On a western side of things, Seasons 8 and 9 of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic are built off of the movie that premiered during Season 7's airing with the events leading to the Friendship School's establishment.
Happy new years goat welcome back
Ngl I forget you exist in between like every video you upload but keep up the yearly bangers.
lol it'll be more than yearly I swear!
@@MathWizHQ Well that's nice to know
Pretty good overview of shonen movies. Personally would have loved to hear which ones you liked from the large swath of movies you have seen. I also realized that american superhero movies have a slight advantage over shonen movies due to having numerous takes on the characters. Don't need to stick to canon if there are a bunch of canons and have accepted stand-alone stories. Not to say anime doesn't have its own franchise movies with looser canon or multiple adaptations (like Lupin III or Doraemon), but usually I don't see the complaints of shonen movies levied at those films.
Well, reading between the lines I got the impression that he thinks Omatsuri is a gem, which it is (best anime original film imo). Aside from that idk.
I love seeing anime movies in the theaters. I think my favorite experiences were seeing Promare in a packed theater full of fans. We cheered at all the Gainax and Trigger references (I yelled “PIERCE THE HEAVENS!!” when the obligatory giant robot showed up).
my fav non-canon anime movie is One Piece: Baron Omatsuri and the Secret Island
Yoooo! Good video man!
If you wanna impress me with a shonen tie-in movie; you gotta do something the main series can't or won't do. Having a character arc helps too, especially if it belongs to the main character.
Now if you're exploring themes or ideas or the main story and setting? Now we're talking!
I've been riding high off One Piece Film Red since I saw it in theatres.
Peak video, this was enlightening
something I'm not surprised you didn't mention but that I felt also warranted some clarification is that the my hero academia movies have a much squishier relationship between filler and non filler than most people think. horikoshi himself provided most of the character designs for movie original characters, a rough outline on the plot, and has at least partial credit on the screenplay for all three of them. he's also written cameos for all of them into the plot of the manga, so while they aren't essential to the plot, they aren't not canon either. everyone including the author consented to the existence of these movies
the issue with the canon vs non-canon debate itself I think it that it fails to consider that artists collaborate with each other sometimes. even in scenarios where the author didn't write something in the anime there's nothing to stop them from retconning it into the source material if they like it enough
I know Oda has also integrated parts of certain One Piece films into the manga itself, either in a quick panel or like worldbuilding.
My only experience with My Hero Academia is watching the second movie with some friends. But one thing I noticed about the movie was that the allusions to the series' other villains, and how it bends over backwards to return everything to the status quo at the end, certainly makes it clear that the staff wanted you to believe that the film was cannon.
Like dragon ball did whit broly.
@@KingCam20I mean it is canon.
3:52 I am dying of laughter after hearing tokusatsu for the 50 time being the father of anime at this point
LETSSSS GOOOOOO.
Happy I stayed subed :D
Just as happy as I'm happy
that subscribed to your sister's OF
Great video! Would love to get a list of recommendations for some of those gems you mentioned.
We know for a fact that One Piece films and TV specials pulled away resources from the TV show during the 00s and 2010s so that concern under Anime Production isn´t without merit. A decent research paper exists about this very issue. Not that Toei´s one chapter an ep adaption could be salvaged at that point.
what's the research paper called? I'll give it a read
Having the best One Piece film in the thumbnail? Mathwiz is back. Let's go.
Still a tossup between Baron Omatsuri and Film Red for me, both are peak.
@@MathWizHQ I know that you know it's baron in your heart!
Also, just an anecdote but AX2018 was also the con I met a bunch of my lifelong friends in person, and the Air BNB we were in had its Air Conditioning break right at the peak of the heatwave, and we had a whole adventure obtaining a $50 10 inch fan just to make it 5% less awful. Incredible memory we've all never forgoitten about, unlike that hero aca movie where I remember nothing about it
Seriously though, super glad you're back Math. Anything you make I'll be interested in and this was no exception. Great video I'm sure to rewatch again!
I had gone to AX 2018 but I will be honest, I don't remember this movie premiering nor do I recall the long line. I think I was trying to avoid being outside for too long since I had forgotten to bring sunscreen that time.
Hello I have subscribed to your UA-cam channel
I usually really like the Digimon movies. It's a chance to mix things up and maybe get some good animation bits.
Detective Conan pretty much perfected the formula of Shounen Filler Movies from everything I hear about them.
Every time I'm offered accessibility to a new Detective Conan movie, I loose my bannanas. So many modern ones don't even have a "mystery". I would not call Fist of the Blue Sapphire or Darkest Nightmare a "mystery". And those are both relatively old at this point.
But every time, I get excited because I want to see Shinichi interact with his friends. And for the new cycle of movies, what bannanas action set pieces. New full stories with Kaito throwing Shinichi out of a blimp, or Hatori catching ya boi flying across the sky. Ran dodging a bullet point blank. Shin focusing on Ai for once instead of Ran.
Sometimes you get a story with heart. Sometimes you get mindless bonkers outrageous set peices. Sometimes you get both. Occasionally you get neither, because they can't all be winners. But every time, I get something to be excited about.
I never knew there was a Yu Yu Hakusho movie, I'm going to go watch it right now.
I think it's also important to remark that the same basic template/framework also applies to "Shoujo filler movies" (or at least stuff like the Cardcaptor Sakura movies) or Precure Movies. I think the issue is that sure people criticize shonen manga as being formulaic but ultimately every mangaka will execute the basic template of "rescue arc"/"tournament arc" in their own manner while non-canon movies are drawing from the same framework and the usual restrictions that come with non-canon material. Even when a movie starts like One Piece Stampede starts with a fun boat race which is something not often seen in the manga, it just ends with the generic evil guy turning big and being finished by everyone hitting it. I think what elevated Film Red was actually committing to the musical aspect and Uta being an atypical original character but the part with the big monster they have to hit at the same time still showed up and I tuned off.
Also wouldn't consider the Dragon Ball Super filler movies, they are continuing the plot from where the series ended, same with JJK0, but that's more that the manga/anime expects you to know about Yuta. Also that The First Slam Dunk/JJK0/Mugen Train were also big hits with Slam Dunk doing better than Film Red so I think ultimately audiences prefer something drawing from the source material. Also fun fact the first Dr Slump movie is actually just adapting chapters from the manga so it's technically not filler/non-canon.
Babe wake up mathwiz is back.
Your non existent babe has left you for me
@@goldeneaglereborn having a new imaginary friend is a weird flex but ok.
35:01 this is my speculation as to why the Black Clover movie was made, when the TV anime stopped they were too caught up to the manga so my guess is that they made that movie so the core staff could stay together and work on something BC for a couple of years while the manga got ahead. I really hope they make another season to finish the Spade arc now that both it and the movie are done.
Great video. There are definitely anime original movies that I’ve loved, mostly for amazing animation and fight scenes, but also sometimes for narrative reasons. You kept mentioning that among the many movies you’ve seen for this video, you found some real gems. Is there any chance we could get a list of recommendations?
Cowboy bebop movie
FMA 2003 movie
Some Lupin Movies
Film red and Stampede
Gintama movies
4th bleach movie
And DBZ broly
And Fist of the north star movie
Film Z
Filler? I hardly know her!
I love the Anime Gataris outro.
I like that the mha movies are all canon
As a guy that was excited to see the first MHA movie, let me give some context:
*First of all, at least in Latin America, this movie could have been (and ended up being) the first time we heard MHA in Spanish since it didn't have a dub before.
*The movie seemed to be a bit more than just filler since it was supposedly "confirmed canon by Horikoshi". Not only that but it also had two manga one shots (one which tells a bit of how All Might lost Nana and why he left Japan, this one would also be turned into a short previous to the movie) and in the trailer we saw a young All Might so many were theoryzing we would see All Might's past.
*There was an infamous Kachako fanart of the movie where Bakugou and Uraraka were dancing and it looked pretty realistic so both the Kachako fans and haters where extremely curious about how would that happen.
*This was for me and probably many other fans the first non Dragon Ball nor Pokemon anime movie so we didn't know about all those "Believe me guys, this is totally plot relevant" clickbaity tricks.
Man, that fifty second introduction of the video cracked a lot of old memories 😂
I feel like the newer DBS films, Broly and Superhero also are more character driven compared to most of the DBZ films, barring Fusion Reborn(which is more about Goku and Vegeta's dynamic, than about Janemba himself, unlike other DBZ films) and Wrath of the Dragon. Though I'll always like first Cooler movie for his hubris and cool design, and Bojack Unbound for its artstyle and setting being stand out at least.
I'll have to go through the Yu Yu Hakusho movies at some point. They seem cool and tackle the ideas similarly to what you said about Naruto, where the established characters act as a point of inspiration to the film original cast.
Really enjoyed this video! The discussion was great. Just finished rewatching yyh and I didn’t even know there was a film for it.
Also, thoughts on OP movie 4? I actually didn’t think it was that bad! Plus the narrative with the child was really engaging!
One Piece movie 4 surprised me, I enjoyed it a lot. I didn't initially expect much out of the OP films pre-Strong World (outside of movie 6), but the narrative thread in movie 4 is pretty solid.
Welcome Back...
>there are some gems
Ok well what are they???
No like dead serious I generally agree with all the ppoints made but like what of these movies do you rec? I thought you'd say so at some point.
As far as shonen filler movies go, I remember really enjoying the third Inuyasha movie as a kid. It actually fit within the show by mostly elaborating upon lore and a specific supporting character that was already present in the main story. So while it does have a similar formula to the main series with a movie-only villain and conflict arising, there still felt like there was some value for long-time fans in watching it beyond some entertainment for an hour and a half. It somehow struck a good balance of fitting within the series' canon, but didn't feel so simplistic as an "extended episode of the week." Obv not saying it's the only one to do that or even that it was the most successful. But when I tried thinking back on ones I've actually seen (i.e. no Dragonball, Gintama, etc...), it stood out in addition to some of the ones already mentioned in the video like Baron Omatsuri.
I feel like Film Red tried to do that to an extent, at least with the Shanks marketing, but like... obviously we aren't going to get that much on a character that's been so under wraps in the main series this long and its mostly going to focus on Uta beyond a couple flashbacks.
I feel like nowadays, I just want an interesting and unique vision when it comes to shonen non-canon movies, whether it's purely visual, how its directed compared to the tv show, or it's storytelling standing apart (both of FMA's films, Beautiful Dreamer, Baron of Omatsuri, etc...). But I understand on a financial aspect why it makes more sense to just go the "extended, higher stakes episode with potentially(?) upgraded animation" route. And it's not like that means its automatically bad at least, but I might not be rushing out to go watch it.
I'll definitely give the Inuyasha movies a shot whenever I get around to reading/watching that series. I watched about 20 episodes over a year ago thinking I might add it into this project, but I fell off of it and haven't gotten back yet lol
I feel if something like Omatsuri was made Today Sabo, Law and Yamato and Akainu would randomly show up for example
Will you do a ranking of your favorite movies from each series?
Loved the video btw.
I might make a separate video going into some of the films on a more individual level, but I didn't want to promise something like that in the video itself. Wanted this one to cover the subject in a more broad sense, because that's what kinda got me interested in them in the first place, but that also means I left a lot out. Just haven't quite figured out what I want to do with it.
@@MathWizHQ Aha, good to know. I really like anime movies for the simple fact that they have the freedom to do a lot of crazy wacky stuff without affecting the main story and lore. We also get a chance to see how different writers and directors interpret these characters, like turning Naruto into a heartthrob in the Shippuden era movies, sometimes the results are good and sometimes they're not.
Something I've never seen an anime do before is for One Piece Film Z the TV anime made an original 4-episode filler arc to introduce TV anime watchers into the movie's canon. Since there's no reason Luffy's crew would be at the film's events in-between Fishman Island and Punk Hazard, the filler arc introduced Z as a character prior to the movie's release and attempts to transition these events into the events of the movie. Even though none of the filler characters are mentioned in the movie itself. They never did this since.
Give me a Top Shonen Anime Movies!!! Feed the BEEEEAST
Always wanted avatar the last air bender to get its animated movies
42:00 I certainly don't think Baron Omatsuri's a bad movie, I just don't love seeing the crew act petty and bitter to serve the narrative.
Saint Seiya's movies in particular would become the template for DBZ's movies, especially since the same staff on the former worked on the latter.
the fun thing for me with anime filler movies is I'm kinda all over the place on which ones I'll watch. One Piece is my favorite anime but the only movies I've seen are Film Z & Film Red & for different reasons. I saw Film Z because it was in the theater room at one Sakura Con I went to & I just said "fuck it I have no panels or tourneys in my schedule atm" while I actively went to a theater to watch Film Red because "OH SHIT THE SINGING VOICE OF THE NEW CHARACTER IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE JAPANESE ARTISTS *AND* SAID CHARACTER IS SHANK'S DAUGHTER MEANING 99% CHANCE AT SHANKS SCREENTIME"
the sakura thing was a translation error from japanese to english
There's a difference between non-canon & filler.
Welcome back bro, we missed you.😺
I missed your mom's
W bideo
It's interesting that all anime movies (as far as i know, specially the original ones) are stand alone. I think it'd be intersting if, for example, the next 3 One Piece films were thought of as a trilogy. The story could be much more interesting and they could make some memorable villians that are developed as the trilogy goes
Pokemon of all things had a movie trilogy once, the Darkrai and Giratina movies lead directly into the Arceus movie
@@lilylopnco
That's cool, didn't know about them. Were they good? I feel like One Piece would really benefir from it
Not all anime movies are standalone. Ghost in the Shell had a sequel for example. Some of the Gundam movies are also direct sequels to previous series. That being said, I think the reason you don't see a lot of planned sequels or trilogies in anime is because the expensive and time consuming nature of animation production probably makes the staff not want to plan for a sequel they might never get.
The only show I bothered watching a lot of these filler movies for is One Piece. It's mostly stinkers, either bad retellings(whether directly, or regurgitating old villains and scenes with a new coat of paint) or the overindulgent recent movies where characters that hadn't appeared in hundreds of chapters showed up again to do some lame punch-ups. Talk about undercutting the manga just to have some stuff for the trailers. In the manga, Luffy hasn't met Aokiji again for over a decade of real-world time. It would be something I eagerly await as a reader, except that in Film Z, they took a bath together. It's just silly. In Film Red, it's even worse, since Shanks is a major feature of it despite only appearing a handful of brief times in the manga so far. That kinda stuff should be saved for when it matters.
However, there were three movies I thought were cool!
Clockwork Island Adventure is like an hour long and took place during or close to East Blue, it's a short, funny adventure that looks a lot better than anything from that era of One Piece but still has that early style. It's not exactly moving, but it is a good time.
Strong World is great, it feels like a canonical episode that got cut for time, which I believe is the actual case. If it wouldn't undercut the introduction of Marineford and Impel Down, it would slot perfectly in after Thriller Bark, and it's a really fun movie. I don't have a high opinion of the later One Piece movies in this "style", Red, Z, Stampede or Gold. But Strong World is a wonderful movie that feels like the author of the manga wrote the whole thing.
And Baron Omatsuri is an amazing original work, the kinda stuff you get when a strong director does a take on the material in his own way but still respects the themes of the original. The mood is unique, the animation and art style is completely different from normal, but it still feels like One Piece. As far as I'm concerned, it's a Mamoru Hosoda movie that's just as good as Wolf Children.
I think Film Red stinks, but at least the songs were tight. Ado is a great singer, and it was welcome to have a One Piece movie with a bunch of songs.
what about ygodsod?
I've never had the strong opinion that movie tie-ins are bad (your video introduced me to the argument) but I found your rebuttal unconvincing. Just because it makes sense in the current industry w.r.t. breeding talent and *keeping* it, (which I agree could strengthen the TV production in non-direct ways) doesn't mean that filler movies can't be a waste of man hours. "Filler" movies are a format whose limitations this video explores, and there are many limitations to point to. The common argument is bemoaning exactly that, maybe filler movies are just not that good. The common opinion hasn't done the research to know that movie-ins are a sacrificial child for the industry's gears, but they feel that movie tie-ins ought not to exist. At the core, you're trying to rebuke an 'ought' with an 'it is' (descriptive) argument, and the latter type of argument was used to justify things like slavery in their time. "That's just how the world works" can be used to justify *anything*, sorry for the dark turn. A descriptive argument can enlighten us to what 'can possibly be' but it is meaningless pitted against what 'ought' to be.
I don't think I agree with what you're saying. Not just the jump to slavery, though that is a pretty drastic shift from the subject of the video. When I said "that's not the anime industry we have," I wasn't saying that as a defense of the system. Ideals of "what ought to be" are important to have, but if I just stopped at what I think "ought to be" in the industry, that wouldn't address the practical conditions that plague modern anime production. Getting caught up in my own image of an ideal anime industry wasn't really the point of my video. I think finding the practical ways in which those ideals can be applied is important to making those necessary changes actually happen. I just don't think the tie-in movies are one of those necessary changes. If someone who has considered those practical issues disagrees with me on that point, that might just be an "agree to disagree" situation.
@@MathWizHQ I might've been after an epic counterpoint when that isn't even the objective in that section of the video. You've got to wonder as the video maker, if the section provoked the misunderstanding, but it's likely I also brought an argumentative lens into my watching of the video, and into that comment. You're right in this comment that arguments about ideals are cheap, and exposing them to reality (through some research) probably improves them, which is what the section is merely doing.
Practically, yeah, somehow getting rid of movie tie-ins would just be attending to a symptom rather than the source of the problems of the industry.
@@averesenso Anime production is definitely something I'm gonna have to keep studying if I want to bring it up again in the future. There's room for improvement on my end for sure.
I think people just generally want project like Mugen Train, The First Slam Dunk, JJK0, Super Broly or the upcoming Reze arc Chainsaw Man movie which are prequels, sequels or adaptations of the source material. Also I think the video ignores that the MHA anime took a hit in quality since they started putting people like Umakoshi into the movies and the adaptation itself suffered from trying to cram the movie into the canon/lore. Sure Umakoshi worked on other projects like the Doremi movie, Film Red and Witch from Mercury but still seems mostly preoccupied with MHA movies.
What's the name of the movie or series in the middle in the thumbnail?
Fullmetal Alchemist: The Sacred Star of Milos
To anyones who's seen the video how bad are the YYH spoilers im at the end of the dark tournament arc.
the spoiler warning is more for the movie, and that doesn't really spoil anything beyond Dark Tournament
@@MathWizHQ thanks Wizzy I can now view safely
I've never understood the canon vs non-canon discourse. Why people wouldn't want to see more of the worlds and characters that they love is odd to me. I like that they exist outside the primary story line, it makes the world's feel larger and allows for new, interesting ideas.
To be honest the idea that people want canon movies so they can pay £15 to see a slightly better animated version of something they would get anyways through the TV anime is strange to me.
Mugen train for example I found extremely uninteresting as it was essentially a few anime episodes put together without an ad break. I like Demon Slayer as much as the next person but I like my movies to feel like movies.
Having said that ultimately the thing that matters is whether it's good or not. People say they don't like non-canon movies or that there are too many Superhero movies but that's mostly the case because their quality is generally poor.
Non canon movies will have contradicting details to the canon lore, timeline wise not make sense, and ofcourse moments power scaling issues that dont make sense with again, the canon material. Then theres the fact that, they want Author involvement so that the story isnt on the high chance of being a messy story that became a waste of time viewing.
you didn't like Mugen Train because demon slayer sucks ass, not for whatever reason you tried to cope with. Literally the only saving grace from that boring ass movie was the final fight.
super hero and broly, filler? those are right after the tournament of power (2 saga in between broly and hero actually) those are not filler lol
Late af but exactly lol
This is uncanny, i JUST watched all the naruto shippudden non canon movies for the first time!
SHE DID IT EVERYONE
IT'S HERE
WE WON
👀
Promo-SM 💥
You don't need to reevaluate your stance, sometimes these movies filler are indeed trash 😂
Some are good tho and added context into the story. But, *some* are bad.
I wonder, has Mexico, and to a much further extent the rest of South America and Mesoamerica, ever had a legendary franchise like how Japan and the United States have had theirs? I know that we have Zorro, La Llorona, and a few couple others but aside from those, do we have anything much more modern or special or that took specific inspiration from certain historical events and created something new and unique? I know that this is a totally out-of-left-field question, but I would genuinely like to know.
How is Mexico doing compared to other countries, it really and honestly seems to live in a perpetual shadow compared to most other countries, and most Mexicans on UA-cam that I know of grew up with either Anime or more Northern American hand-me-downs, but I haven't heard of any diamonds in the rough. All I ever heard about was some very adult and kind of, for a lack of a better term, stupid flash animation, Novellas, and some very niche comedies like Chavo del Ocho or 30 Minutos, etcetera. I am genuinely curious if I am going to be the first Mexican to ever pull those countries out of their shadow and create some relatively legendary things (I might be hyping myself up a bit after all the ideas I have are barely even finished, much less begun in production), or that maybe there might be some diamonds in the rough or failed projects that never saw the light of day or were ever given a chance.
45mins? dont get weird on me
Wow, MathWiz remembered that he had a UA-cam page. 👍🏿
She*
Sorry
I have no problem whit toei making two DBZ movies in the 90s due to DBZ being popular in the 90s. But it doesn't change the fact most of those movies were terrible. Toei knew fans would watch the movies no matter what until the movies started making less money in the mid 90s. They were so predictable at that point you already knew how things were gonna turn out before watching them.
What worst how the movies only made goku look better then everyone while others characters were getting there ass kicked by the main villain or his minions. Who goes to watch movies to see there favorite characters lose all the time? Especially vegeta who was a big time fan favorite that the movies made him look like a loser who didn't know how to fight. He never use any of his special attacks like final flash in none of the 90s movies compare to goku who not only use every moves from the canon series but get new ones too. The movies got so bad that GT didn't get a movie. Then again GT was so bad it didn't deserve a movie. The movies would get better whit battle of the gods and other characters finally get better treatment from the staff for a change. The only bad movie of the four made is resurrection of F which is where everyone finally agrees the vegeta disrespect needs to stop. Since then vegeta been treated well in the movies for once.
I don't mind filler movies all of them don't always have to perfect but atleast treat other characters whit a little respect and not just make it all about the lead character.
The hxh movies is a Terrible example of how to do a filler movies.
The bleach movies are a great example of how to do filler movies
The my hero movies are a decent example though I personally thought that the second mha movie was phenomenal.
I still don't understand MHA hype
One Piece movie 6 (Baron Omatsuri), Dragon Ball movie 13 (Broly Second Coming) and Saint Seiya movie 5 (Heaven Chapter Overture)... those are the 3 masterpieces of shonen films. Truly spiritual works. There are films in the film school canon that are not as good as these 3
24:49 ah, another person who thinks that Canon and continuity are the same thing. (fun fact: as long as something is officially made or commissioned, then it's canon. So every dragon ball movie is Canon since they're officially made.)
dude make more concise videos
there is very little I could have done to make this video more concise
call me a purist, but original source material is basically the word of god when it comes to these things, anything outside out of it basically shouldn't exist
Weird mindset but to each their own
Baron omotsuri is one of the best bits of one piece media tho
I dislike your opinion
I dont think they shouldn't exist I mean Hell Bardock from dragon ball wouldn't exist with that mind set but I do think said films need to be good like hell not having watching more than 30 seconds off this video I can't help but feel bad for the people who waited 6 hours to watch a thoroughly mediocre movie and I love my hero academia
the only thing that matters is that you praise one piece movie 6 which is the best one piece movie. good job, proud of you.