ERIC BISCHOFF + BULLY RAY EXPLAIN "SELLING" vs "REGISTERING" in WRESTLING
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Eric Bischoff hears Bully Ray explain the magic of good storytelling through registering and selling properly during a wrestling match.
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What Bubba is describing is basically how DDP ended up getting over so much in WCW, fans became invested in his constant struggle to overcome the odds. Tommy Dreamer was the same way.
Not in WWE. Tommy Dreamer sucked their. He lost more matches than winning. Tommy Dreamer is forever a WWE loser. ECW sucked too
@@larrystilltheeman39and what have you done Larry
@mario9739 I have done your mother son. I am your daddy! I left your moms because of you. I did her real good and we produced a bastard so I left and neglected a little bastard.
@@xanaduseECW Minor League. Indy Promotion. 81% Small Dudes. Then Some Heavyweights In Cruiserweights Bodies. And The Rest 6% Were Heavyweights. Heavyweights. ECW Was Overrated/Overpraised/. They Had Only 2 Originals With The Size & Talent To Be Main Eventers, Mike Awesome And Rob Van Dam. Vince Russo Made Mike Awesome Midcard Because After Vince Russo Hulk Hogan Fired, His Nephew, Mike Awesome ‘s Cousin Horace Hogan Left WCW. Eric Bischoff Was Going
To Continue To Push Mike Awesome & Sign RVD Had He Been Able To Buy WCW.
The classic "thank you Sir, may I have another?" segment with Sandman. For me I always go back to the Jeff Hardy Undertaker ladder match on RAW for a great example of seeing "the struggle". Jeff was seriously good at it, it's just a shame that "outside interference" always managed to affect him.
Don't worry, at least someone here understands what you're talking about.
More Bubba, less conrad. Youll rake in numbers with this combo Eric. Dont let Thompson tell you otherwise. Trust that gut instinct
Agree 100%
Yeah... Eric don't need no Host. His "Gift of Gab" is right up there with Austin and The Rock. And this proves that Eric is an excellent Host.
def true.
I could listen to Bully ALL DAY rather than conrad! What a great change for a little while.
I’ve always like Bully but I’ve heard he was a dick to ppl behind the scenes like CM Punk was. Billy still worked his ass off n helped run ECW.
@@gman2015zMy take is, like CM Punk he is deeply devoted to the ritual of wrestling behind the scenes. Working for your spot, giving and paying respect. I think you have to earn his respect.
There’s pranksters like Mr. Perfect
Straight dicks like JBL
Then, from the stories I’ve heard there’s people like Punk or Bully who have a high standard for what they do and don’t want to see it any less.
I dunno. Maybe it’s all whatever.
💯
Probably cause Bully Ray doesn't suck both AEW and Dave Meltzer every 2 seconds like Conrad does.
@jonpike9502 True ✅
Man I learned something today. Bully is so good at explaining and giving examples of what he was talking about
He's the Anti-Meltzer
Bret Hart is the guy to watch for a perfect example of what Bully is talking about here. Bret sold ass whoopings better than anyone. Every time he rose up in a match, it required effort. He looked like a guy who had been through the ringer. And thays how you should look.
💯%
Exactly who came to my mind when they were talking. What made him such a masterful babyface was that struggle. He would die a million deaths, writhe in pain, and all of that which goes towards recognition and selling, but he was ALWAYS giving little indications that he was fighting to stand, fighting to defend, fighting to counter; he was always fighting for something. That's what created the FRENZY in the crowd throughout his matches.
The other aspect I'd add to everything Bully said here is not forgetting the struggle when you're on offence. It should be the through line in your performance, and that's the part that I've found most lacking in a lot of modern wrestling, and that's what separates spotfests from great matches that have a lot of spots. It's the great "why" that underlies absolutely everything to do with psychology and in-ring characterization.
Also, if anyone ever wondered what separated Big Match John from Cena Sucks, it's whether he brought the struggle on that particular night.
What bully is talking about is critical in wrestling.. you have to be tricked into disbelief.. if you’re just watching moves it’s just like a dance performance not wrestling
You need to believe things hurt, you need to believe that the person is pushing through pain & showing heart…
Rocky 2 is the perfect analogy
I remember screaming at the tv screen wanting the guy to get up.. & I was watching a movie where nothing was real.. I didn’t think that there’s cameras & lighting & things are getting done 3 or 4 times for cuts & camera angle changes.. I was invested in this pretend person’s story… his struggle…
That’s exactly what you want from wrestling.. if I want to watch a fight il watch mma, boxing or martial arts.. I know wrestling is choreographed & they’re helping each other or standing in the right place but I forget that if I see everything he mentioned.. if I see it looks like it’s real or hurt my brain switches off from thinking it’s all planned
What you're talking about is "Suspension of Disbelief." It's not enough to make the audience believe what they're seeing and hearing is real. The true art form is in making them believe what they're seeing isn't fake. In other words, don't make what you do seem real, rather make what you do not seem fake. In doing so, that audience will "suspend" their "disbelief" in reality. Because once you distract that audience away from that "disbelief," then belief in what IS there takes hold. And then you've got them. Vince lost sight of that YEARS ago and the Industry followed suit. The Pro Wrestling Industry has been so focused on "reality" that they forgot how they achieved that "reality" in the "Glory Days." There's a reason "kayfabe" was so heavily protected back in the day and why being excellent on the mic was so important. It wasn't to make things seem more real. It was to make things seem less fake.
What Vince and the Industry forgot is that Pro Wrestling Fans KNOW that Pro Wrestling is fake. So if you try to make things more real, most fans are just going to balk because they know you're not being genuine, especially if you focus on pushing the "reality" instead of hiding the "fakeness." But if you focus, instead on hiding that "fakeness, " even to a Veteran Pro Wrestling Fan, your storyline and characters will feel more real because the things that immediately tell your trained brain that "oh this is fake and I know it" are gone and only what the wrestlers WANT you to focus on remains.
With Triple H fully and firmly at the helm, WWE is slowly regaining that lost art form. Why? Because Triple H was and is a student of that art form. He was one of the undisputed masters of it. Cody vs The Bloodline, once The Rock (speaking of Masters of The Art Form) entered the picture, didn't feel real because they went out of their way to make it real. It felt real because they went out of their way to remove the fakeness. And what you were left with was "reality."
And the "Art of the Register, Sell, and Struggle" is as huge part of that "Suspension of Disbelief." In fact, I would argue it might be the most important part. Because it's the Climax of the Story. This is what dictates success or failure. It's the race to the finish line. You can craft the best characters and story on the planet and have the talent to execute that story to perfection, removing all fakeness to imbue reality. But it all means nothing if the wrestlers can't wrestle. If they can't sell that story in that ring, you have failed because the fans won't buy it. This is, actually, a lesson that Kurt Angle had to learn. He's actually mentioned it in interviews. He's one of the most technical wrestlers on the planet. But WWF/E is a whole 'nother ball game. He had no idea how to be a "WWE Superstar" when he was hired by Vince. He had to learn that. He had to learn to tell a story both in and out of the ring. He had to learn how to speak on the mic. He had to learn, the hard way, that all the technical prowess in the world don't mean shit if the fans don't believe you. And fans will believe you if you don't give them a reason not to believe you. Suspend their Disbelief in the reality of the situation. Kurt Angle doesn't have to work and learn to make wrestling seem real. Why? Because he's an Olympic Gold Medal Wrestler. He's a REAL wrestler. But that means nothing in the WWE and in Pro Wrestling because the first thing you learn is how to make your real wrestling fake so as not to actually harm your opponents. Then the true test is can then can you hide or remove that "fakeness" from your modified wrestling style. Or in other words, can you make what you do in that ring into what you can REALLY do without ACTUALLY doing it? And THAT is the Art Form that Kurt Angle has Mastered and Perfected over the course of his Pro Wrestling Career.
What Pro Wrestling REALLY wants to achieve with its fans, though they may have lost sight of it and no longer realize it, is the old Pro Wrestling Meme: "It's Real To Me Dammit!"
Bubba has a great mind for the business. He has been underutilized by the major companies for a long time.
How? Everyone knows who he is. You expect him to hold the title like hogan or Bruno? He’s a mid carder
No his not, he is part of the more decorated team in the history of wrestling and #2 in the more times win WWE tag team titles. Trust by Paul Heyman and Vince. Run his on ideas in TNA and more and more.
@@Trumpisgod I didn’t mean as a wrestler. Post his in ring career he has a lot to contribute backstage.
Bubba might low key be one of the smartest people in the business. I’ve never heard someone describe it so eloquently so that even someone who has zero knowledge of wrestling could understand.
Amen! I'm of course familiar with the selling. But I'd never heard anyone describe registering in the industry prior to today. And man did he nail his point perfectly.
Both Sami and IIya Dragonov sells really great in their matches. The emotion and adrenaline they have in their matches are unmatched. You could see they are giving everything.
Common denominator = GUNTHER!
All jokes aside because both are incredible in what they do, but damn does it help when you have a true monster heel to work with.
I've never actually thought of Sami doing this, but Bubba is absolutely right. Sami is really good at it too.
80s hogan was the man at this dude take a forearm from a guy smaller than him fall to a knee knee walk to the rope beg the fans slowly pull himself up the ropes. Dusty was the same way. They played to the crowd and sold and reacted like they were being murdered. Bret Hart and Shawn. Also amazing. Made getting up a struggle. Amazing work
Steamboat and Santana were great at this. Brett Hart too.
Always loved how Scott hall sold too, Randy Orton does amazing selling too.
dolp zigler great at selling too
I`m sorry if anyone has said this alot of people call these two has been`s. No, they are they have been there and can call what they have learned. Beutiful explanation of the art of wrestling. Total pro`s in every way.
It's so lost people would tap out the moment they were put in a submission rather than fighting and struggling to the ropes.
Sami is in a class all his own
No he’s not
LOL
If there is one thing I hate with some of modern wrestling is the overuse of super kick. The usos match at Mania pissed me off they abuse the super kick, too many matches do that as well.
Bubba has a grasp of professional wrestling that very few have or even try to have. I love listening to him describe the business and the guy could easily run his own company.
Billy Ray talks so much insight. He helps you see what you don’t see and opens a curtain and story you never saw coming. He’s refreshing. Tony really needs someone who really understands the business to take AEW to a different level. Whether he wants to listen or not. WWE understands that fans want a storyline that pulls at our emotions in a million different ways that we relate to .
Bubba Ray is one of those guys who just GETS wrestling. He understands it on a fundamental level and can understand what an audience needs and what a wrestling match can provide for them.
His description of struggle is definitely a lost art. Selling overall is one of the most lost arts especially in WWE, largely because they go for so many high spots it's near impossible to sell being hurt.
Some of my favorite wrestlers of all time were the ones that sold struggle. Bret Hart was great at it, and the ones I love today are the ones who can sell being hurt, the ones who can make me believe they are at their absolute last bit of life in that ring when they pull something off.
I think that's what I like about Cody and Roman. They sold, they registered, they struggled.
Bout to go watch that Rocky 2 scene...
That was so well worded & explained by two wrestling geniuses that know the business the art the delivery & everything in-between great video awesome conversation thank you both I enjoyed it
Bully explains it so well, the way he was explaining what Sami does had me feeling the same way as watching Sami. It's the purest for of the ART of Professional Wrestling.
I've been calling Pro Wrestling: "Athletic Live Theatre" for years.
"Fight Opera" sounds pretty cool too!!
one type of selling i really hate in todays wrestling is the “KO” sell. The wrestler gets hit and they just get stunned and fall down slowly, it looks so cartoony. i rather see when they get hit they drop to the mat and writhe/roll around in pain. that to me looks way more painful than just seeing someone get hit and fall down like they got KO’d. you could watch any old match from the 80/90s and they sold punches, kicks , body slams etc. by rolling around in pain on the mat. Austin for example would grab his head and roll while kicking his feet in pain after a big move.
Flair made the cartoony his shtick, only Micheal’s and Scott Hall could pull off what you’re talking about believeably
@@Madeoftea yes, i’m not saying it should never be done but like you said Flair was the king of comedy selling. i always marked out when Ric did the flop
Bubba and Eric should be the podcast, they know what they're talking about.
Another art I appreciate is the extended sell. If you and I are in a match, and you start targeting any one particular part of my body (foot, leg, arm, shoulder, etc.) - I need to remember that it's been targeted for a good part of the match. If my leg/knee has been targeted, I shouldn't be able to run full-speed. If it's my arm/shoulder, I shouldn't be able to lift the weight I can normally lift.
It bugs me when wrestlers forget to sell their injuries.
older veterans still do it right. that includes john cena.
This was awesome. Thank you very much for discussing the psychology of the match and the comparisons of the struggle versus selling.
If you're gonna tell a story where the hero struggles and climbs the unclimbable mountain, don't forget to build up the mountain. Very few can build a mountain like Sami can. He is like a modern day Bret Hart when it comes to this, and the registering as well. Another guy who I thought wasn't mentioned enough for this was Mikey Whipwreck back in his ECW prime.
I love this eric and bully dynamic
I knew it was gonna be a classic because nobody takes a beating like Sami, and nobody gives a beating like Gunther. But I didn't know it'd be THAT good. Instant top five all time matches for me.
Maybe it's the accent and the Paul Heyman vibes from it, but I can't help but think Bully would make one hell of a manager.
My gawd Mark. You are one of the best wrestling minds ever. I truly appreciate your knowledge and experience. Cheers bro
FIRE CONRAD
All the kids in AEW need to see this. Not that they even want to learn
After years of watching AEW, I caught WWE around Mania season this year, and the selling and registering that WWE does brings me into their matches more. New Japan talent also bump and sell really well.
I'm someone who appreciates both styles. I can pop just as hard for crazy spots as I can for a long story with a huge climax
Spot fests are good if done sparingly and should be done towards the end of the match to keep the audience guessing who will win. Exchanging spots rapidly at the beginning or middle don't make sense.
@@lasko24 That's why the whole Undertaker/Shawn Michaels/HHH Mania saga worked so well, even with one of those matches being a HIAC.
This is the first time I sat through a clip of 83 Weeks. Why? No Conrad.
When he started talking about opera, it made me combine the discussion of selling, struggling and registering to the scene in Shawshank where Andy Is Playing the record player ….
The only ones who are talking are the two guards, the warden and the narrator , andy never speaks, the other prisoner never speak, in the opera SINGERS are not singing in a language we know, but they are all telling the story for us like the wrestlers in the ring ate telling a story, and the referee and any manager helps them tell the story
Bully is 200% correct. Side note: if you get a chance to watch Kofi vs Gunther, Kofi showed an level of underneath work that I had no idea he was capable of.
I think the highly rehearsed nature of modern wrestling has a lot to do with it. Instead of registering the current move they’re thinking 10 a heads and trying focus on the remembering the spots and timing
Performance art is absolutely universal as an actor and certainly as a wrestler with non-verbal storytelling.
These two would make for a great podcast
I enjoyed bully raised matches the best when he was in Aces and eight
In the 80s wrestlers had long hair and would snap their head back so the hair would flick.
There's something about Eric looks and vibe wise that reminds me of the evil Dr will from big brother
Weathers and Stallone were brilliant
This is why love him or hate him, Babyface Hulk Hogan was always the best at registering, selling, and the struggle....just incredible at making it look like he was fighting for his life, before the incredible Hulk up.....
I can't find anything to disagree with here. Class was in session
gota love bully his comentary on the match cycle and eb and flow is always on point he should teach this stuff the new guys coming through to make them better and the product better
live vicariously.... yep, that pretty much sums up how I feel when I watch pro wrestling.
Bully gave a great example of people reacting to the wrestler doing the move: Shawn Michaels. Everyone does Super Kicks these days, but only one person did the Sweet Chin Music. Same with Undertaker's Tombstone, Triple H's Pedigree, Randy Orton s RKO, John Cena's FU, Stone Cold Stunner..
interesting that he touched on the hockey fight thing.. i like it.. but it is really too meta in wrestling rn. The reason it happens in hockey is they need balance and control on ice.. and they have something to grab onto. You try this in a street fight and you will get rocked if the other person knows how to fight. Speaking from sad experience there, lol.
Samy is Fn AWESOME Thank You Bully Ray
the struggle is why most old school wrestling was so good. You saw it, look at Hogan vs Andre, how Hogan struggled until the Hulk up right at the end, or Spike Dudley he was a master of the art Bubba is talking about.
Id argue kickouts count as well. If someone just got hut with a barrage of devastating moves, they dont need to fully kick all the way out right after 2 with all their might. Wait till that .2 before the 3, and just get a shoulder up.
There should also be few matches, where the wrestler couldn't kick out of move in time like in the old days. The wrestler is tryjng to kick out, but he is so numb that he couldn't make it before the 3 count, so the other wrestler wins. The kickout or, as you said, getting a shoulder up happens after the 3 count.
@@rjuniverse7289 Kane used to lose that way a lot. It was a good way to show you couldn't keep a monster like that down for much longer than 3 seconds.
What was beautiful about the mania match was despite the masses wanting to see Gable in the match instead of Sami, Zayn captured the audience with his performance and by the end of the match I was all on board with him dethroning Gunther. It was at that moment, I realized why they chose Zayn for the Mania spot. I do still hope they push Gable, but he just needs more build for his climb to the top
Don't worry. Perc Gable is gonna be a menace. Wouldn't be surprised if he did beat Sami eventually.
I hate how everyone struggles up to 9 outside the ring before running full speed to get in at the last second now.
I've been seeing that a lot lately and it really gives the impression that you are wasting my time instead of looking to struggle to get back in the ring. If you can run full speed at 9, there is no reason you can not move at all at 8.
I have loved watching sami since his days in the indies always a joy to watch
I would like a discussion of the lost art of the finishing move in today’s wrestling for example when hbk tuned up the band and hit sweet chin music u knew it was over or almost over nowadays everyone hits 15 super kicks 10 spears 5 stunner’s and it’s all just part of a regular move set it waters down the excitement imo
I was thinking this when watching the Cody Rhodes vs Carmelo Hayes last smackdown 4/26/2024. There was no good selling, registering, or struggle in that match. Even after Carmelo took the Cross Rhodes he set up like it wasn't even that effective or damaging.
I agree with bully's take on sammis unique way of selling the struggle.. I felt so bad for him when he was getting pushed and shoved around while he was in the Bloodline
I think everyone needs to go back and watch Sami's "brain buster" again. One of the biggest whiffs I've ever seen.
this was very good
Eric bringing up Curt reminds me that, back in the day you would watch him against some jobber. He would sell so well that he had you thinking 'my god Dwayne Gill is gonna Mr Pefect!'
The more I hear Bubba talk, the more I like him.
Eric bischoff not knowing what the eff hes talking about here but trying to sound like he does to bubba is funny
It is not even Rocky 2, it is Rocky 3, the eye of the tiger. Apollo Creed is training Rocky in Rocky III.
Bubba kind of sounds like Heyman.
You mean Bully explained it hahaha
If I were to own a wrestling company. I would do what I could to hire Bully for the back. As a teacher to the younger generation. And I would demand they listen to him and learn from him. But from what I hear. Most of the young talent in wrestling think they know more than the veterans like Bully.
Exactly AEW needs to learn from this
🚫 Doing 40 finishers and kicking out at 2, going through a table and beating the 10 count like it was nothing
left a video with conrad on it to rewatch this 💀
Listening to this, I realized what makes logan paul better than ricochet. Like what bully ray is saying, you tell the story so that when you do the move, it pops. Logan Paul can be just any highflyer out there. He can be just like any other athletic wrestler out there. But most, if not all of his recent matches are bangers.
So you have an entire show, then break it down into pieces. I SAW THIS ALREADY!!
Then don’t watch it
BULLY!!!!!!! Once again! The Man knows! When you are edge of the seat and screaming at the screen to GET THE FUCK UP!!! KEEP FIGHTING!!!!!!! Yeah, that is so lost now. Take me with you, through the pain, through the anguish, until the end, good or bad! Make Us feel what you are going through! THIS is why I love Bully and now that Eazy E has struck out on his own? We can have these discussions without Chunky ass conrad licking taint and shilling for his flavour of the fucking month. Bless you Both Eric And Bully.
Love Eric and bubba. It's a damn shame bubba can't replace conrad
I hate when somebody kicks out and the opponent does that fake surprised look, like they can't believe it. Becky Lynch does that bullcrap all the time.
Conrad is a fan. He doesnt have the experience, just the info... Bubba has the experience and info, so he has the knowledge.
Eric has the storytelling knowledge.
These guys just know what theyre talking about. Conrad doesnt.
A spot takes a few seconds, while telling a story requires some investment of time. The insistence that fans have no attention span and so should never be asked to focus has done a lot of damage to the product.
Less Conrad. He's just a AEW hack.
you are a hack
Sami is at Steamboat level as for as the psychology they use to get people to buy into their fight.
Damn, I have seen Sami struggle a lot and he is the best at it!
Never noticed how mu ch Bully Ray's voice sounds like Heyman
Sami is the best "babyface in peril" in all of wrestling.
Been saying this for years.
He sound like paul hayman 😂
Someone called Sammy Hulk Hogan as an insult and I left me surprised that wrestling fans can watch it for 30 years and still not get it
Bret Hart was great at the sell and the struggle.
Seems like bully ray should orchestrate a match.
Does bubba sound like paul heyman ?
Act like you're making a wrestling movie.
Randy orton does this too
REAL TALK in this video
Eric and Bully Ray are on a HIGH HORSE of what wrestling should be
Shibata no sell king
Conrad blows bubba rules
Eric knows how to kill a company
How stupid can a billionaire be not to get rid of three chumps you don’t use to hire and listen to one great wrestling mind?
Use this as a shout out to Sami Zayn Button !
Close your eyes and listen to Bully you will see Paullllllllllll Heyman