Welcome to Season 3 of Extra Sci Fi! BTW, we have some Extra Sci Fi merch on the store now, including this soft t-shirt - store.dftba.com/collections/extracredits/products/extra-sci-fi-logo-shirt and a pack of illustration prints from the first 2 seasons, by series artist David Hueso - store.dftba.com/collections/extracredits/products/extra-sci-fi-illustration-pack
Can I recommend to the crew at Extra Credits the Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson? Sanderson, at least in my opinion, has fantastic world building and foreshadowing in his books. Check it out!
I cannot wait to dive into this. Right now I am world building a lot for my game, using existing and fantasy languages and expand on them. I've written a book with the entire story script, shaped the World and even drew Maps for every place, so that I may not miss a single thing. Each continent and island is messured after what I've learned about earth and I even studied Meteorology to make every place feel real. Heck, I even created a Universe in the "Universe Sandbox Game" to see if my idea with three moons and a large sun would even be possible for a habitable planet. I will learn so much from all of this, since I want this RPG to be as captivating as Lord of The Rings and Dune were for me :3
Good video, but there is one error I could find. Tolkien was adamant in saying that he created middle-earth to give the languages he made a world, not creating languages to expand that world.
Yes, Tolkien's primary field was philology, or evolutionary linguistics. Basically, he studied the way languages evolve, relate to, and influence one another. He took this knowledge and reproduced it in Arda. It's why you have the different dialects of Elvish stemming from the Sundering of the Elves, and why the Rohirric (i.e. the language of Rohan) we see in the text is based on Anglo-Saxon, among many other connections. (Tolkien saw the relationship between Westron/Common Speech and Rohirric as analogous to the relationship between English and Anglo-Saxon. Since he used English to represent Westron, it follows that he used Anglo-Saxon to represent Rohirric.)
The silmarillion, a book comprised of the unfinished works of Tolkien after his death, incredibly describes middle earth's history and details that never made it into their own stories. Tolkien had a knack for providing extensive description of the world he created almost to the point where it kinda becomes too much. He's the kind of writer who will write a chapter describing the wind conditions on a particular evening but write a battle in one paragraph. A friend of mine said that If the silmarillion were made into a movie it would just be a long family tree on the screen scrolling down for 3 hours.
Thats not really the case. The the most important story in the silmarillion, the quenta silmarillion is my all time favourite story. It really feels like reading a real epic history or ancient myth. It has loads of names yes, but also so many interesting stuff going on. From the tale of Hurin and his children, to Barahir and Beren and Luthien. All of these could be made into a great movie.
I'd love that movie. It could be made as narration with family trees but also breaks for action sequences showcasing some of the most important events. Imagine 10 hr long Silmarillion movie like that... One could only dream...
It would be really boring. But epic. And I would definitly pay money for it and watch the first hour, before leave it to dust in my bookcase. Just like the book. :)
I don't think you'd do that: you'd pick ONE of the many Silmarillion stories, and just concentrate on that. Not the whole thing, it's too too too detailed.
You keep talking about how Tolkien put his heart and soul into coming up with languages and names to fit them which made me remember that there were three trolls in the hobbit named Tom, Bert, and William.
Or, for a 'Dune' take: you came to this moment because this is the only moment you allowed to be because you tried to avoid this very thing despite knowing it was the only true choice! 🤯
I've read Dune sixteen times, and I still find intriguing and new things each time I read through it, as well as the other five in the series. Absolutely fascinating books
@@シロダサンダー yes I definitely still get so much out of Dune every time I read through it, mainly the aspects of politics, theology, metaphysics, ecology etc. that are everywhere in the novel. I'm no expert or 'intellectual' by any stretch, but Dune and the rest of the series are some of the only books that had me writing down certain quotes in a notebook because they were so profound to me. I know I'm probably over-hyping Dune, but when I first read it when I was 13 it really made me contemplate the actual capabilities of the human mind and body, even though I knew that most of the mentat and bene gesserit feats of control and computation were impossible. Though it made me consider how humanity might evolve in the future in ways which would be able to achieve such mastery over their own bodies. Anyway, the point is that it made me think deeply about more subjects than any other novel I've read, and it still does every time. It's some good shit 👌
so, how bout them atriedes? elitist swine! good think for the harkonnens hanging around making them look better. siona was the worst of them all though, getting all her friends killed in her feud with worm uncle
cloudbloom I feel the same about LOTR . I’ve read them many times and even bought books about the books and history of them and everything but it’s been a few years since I’ve read them last
Why Lord of the Rings feels alive? I'll just left it here The world was young, the mountains green, No stain yet on the moon was seen, No words were laid on stream or stone When Durin woke and walked alone. He named the nameless hills and dells; He drank from yet untasted wells; He stooped and looked in Mirrormere, And saw a crown of stars appear, As gems upon a silver thread, Above the shadows of his head. The world is grey, the mountains old, The forge's fire is ashen-cold; No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Durin's halls; The shadow lies upon his tomb In Moria, in Khazad-dûm. But still the sunken stars appear In dark and windless Mirrormere; There lies his crown in water deep, Till Durin wakes again from sleep.
This is one of the few times I've seen Herbert's Dune mentioned and explained in current media. I honestly think more people should get involved in the Dune universe, it is a very deep and entertaining world.
Legendary is working on two new dune movies so more and more youtubers are jumping on the dune hype train and discussing dune. It is said that the new dune movies will blow any other recent Scifi (along the lines of Star Trek Discovery and the Star War Sequel movies) out of the water.
One part of Herbert's Dune that always fascinated me was how the Fremen have such a strong resemblance with arabic nomad tribes, and how one can basically experience in the books how religion is very direct translation of a peoples relationship to the natural environment they are confined in. I find it fascinating how Christianity has a lot of animistic undertones when placed in it's original landscape, and how it has become disjointed and misunderstood by spreading it into other environments that do not represent the original landscape. In Dune this also happens as the holy Crusade of the Fremen spreads throughout the galaxy. While the religion of Shai-Hulud serves a very real and important function on the desert planet of Arrakis, it becomes corrupted once it has spread to other planets that in no way represent the religions original environment. Dune is basically a case study in how all religions stem from an animistic tradition, but how civilization tends to remove the meaning from a religion as the people lose contact with their natural environment. Another thing that I find fascinating is that Herbert adds Daoistic elements in the Zensunni philosophers that wander in the Arrakeen deserts. Since I have strong fascination for Daoist philosophy, I find it wonderful to find such a deep understanding of the importance of landscape and ecology in human culture and how an environment shapes a persons identity. Destroying an environment also destroys the people living there, even if you give them all the modern advantages. Nature just tends to inspire spiritual experience and philosophy in people once they have learned to tackle the dangers of that environment. I find it amazing that such a deep understanding of ecology and culture was presented in Dune as early as 1965.
Tolkien is a personal hero of mine. He crafted a world, steeped in British themes, that had a sense of grand beauty and pure awe. When i watch return of the king, it never fails to make me sob at the last ten minutes, from Sam’s heroic push to Frodo’s leaving middle earth. It’s just a world that feels so whimsical and anciently grand.
This reminds me of a Dungeons & Dragons book that I read once. It was written by Gary Gygax, the creator of D&D, and also went over the topic of names alone called "Gary Gygax's Extraordinary Book of Names". It also provides a lot of building blocks for names.
Herbert's work has had a profound impact on popular culture. The Dune series has been cited as an influence by writers such as George R.R. Martin, Ursula K. Le Guin, and William Gibson. Herbert's work has also been praised by scientists for its prescience on issues such as climate change and environmental degradation. On this day, we pay tribute to Frank Herbert, one of the greatest science fiction writers of all time. His work has inspired and entertained readers for generations, and his legacy continues to inspire new writers and creators. Thank you, Frank Herbert, for your gift to the world. *LOVE FROM INDIA*
I love worldbuilding as a hobby... I have more of a Herbert approach to names, as I lack the fortitude and patience to create entire language, though, and I rather build my names from our languages. A city surrounded by a river that’s black from ash is named Schwarzwasser, literally "black water" in German. It’s basic, but it gets the job done.
I find German names do give medieval towns a fun gothic feel. Maybe I've just focused on middle-ages Germany too much. I love the trick of naming towns after their surroundings, like Rivendell and your Schwarwasser. So many real cities are named that way, that it just seems natural. One good example is the city of Rothenburg ob der Tauber. Awesome sounding name. It just means Redcastle over the Tauber river. (Ironically, the castle's actually mostly gone.)
I like to take a half-way approach. If I need an exotic or cool name, I'll take a word that best describes what I'm naming, boot each consonant up by one or two in the alphabet, and play with it until it sounds good. I test it by using it in casual conversation and seeing how out-of-place it is.
@@helicongremory8480 Theres also Gothic armor, architecture & literature, etc... I know my history. I even used the typo myself. I just recomended the language because its "litteraly gothic". ;p
What I like about the names of human NPCs in Dark Souls is how many are just real European names that not a lot of people have anymore. Not hating on con-lang names or anything (hell, Dark Souls even borrows a lot from elvish), its just that it was refreshing to get my estus flask from Oscar of Astora and not Schmibadongulor of Astora. Less is more sometimes.
You know what's interesting? Dark Souls went about like how Tolkien's writings went about. Tolkien fiddled with languages and made a world for it. Dark Souls was a game that had a game mechanic and then was given a world for it. Started with Demon Souls. Or so I heard.
Oscar is still a pretty common name in Spanish, and it was rather funny to find it in Dark Souls. But yeah, Dark Souls borrows a lot from Elvish. Just think about Anor Londo meaning "Port of the setting Sun"
@@kenobi6257 Yeah it's fun how Spanish has kept so many names in common use derived from the many cultures that mixed in the Iberian peninsula over the ages. Oscar by the way is a germanic name composed of Os (God or Gods) and Garr (spear) so Oscar is Godspear! We can probably thank the visigodos for that one.
Tolkien inspired me so much, I love fantasy and wrote my own fantacy world trying to make something as exiting as what he did and with what I have now I'm satisfied
2:36 Okey. This is from 6:48 in the morning in Madrid, Spain. And this Lothlorien made me wake up the neighbour's dog. Pure laught. Probably first of the year. Thanks.
I just finished Tolkien's The Fall of Gondolin. Finished The Children of Hurin a month ago. This video came out of the perfect time for me. Gonna have to read both again.
@Mason West those fail to adapt the source material. They don't have the LOTR tagline because the Tolkien Estate refused them that trademark due to their disregard for the lore. Those games are literally just poor man's AC in a bastardized Middle Earth
@Mason West the two most faithful LOTR games are Lord of The Rings: War in the North and The Lord of the Rings Online. I have not played Lord of The Rings: Battpe for Middle Earth, but I have heard it trys to stay relatively faithful
I'm so excited for an ENTIRE SEASON of Tolkein (and Herbert). I really love Lord of the Rings (and I haven't read Dune). I'm excited to see them analyzed closely.
If you love the epiness and myth of Tolkien's universe, you will love Dune. It has the same thousands of years spanning backstory that you can get lost in.
0:58 most mythic world building is inspired by ancient religion. I believe this is covered in the Extra Mythology Series Announcement (Oct 4, 2018). Additionally, this is also backed up by another series, Crash Course World Mythology, specifically called out in episode 1 (Feb 24, 2017). I am very happy we are able to enjoy these concepts and stories as entertainment :)
I find it extremely amazing how Tolkien's universe feels real, without at all being realistic. Like, the political,economical and psychological world building in lord of the rigs is very, very flat but it doesn't seem important in this world. This world isn't like ours, the humans aren't like we are, but they are still weldefined.
You nailed it, EC! These two authors established a tapestry upon which they hung the narrative. Without this, the reader falls out of a story, like a bad movie where the backdrop is flimsy cardboard.
This video came out on the exact right moment for me. Ive been working on a game passion project for a very long time and felt a bad that I didnt get to the world building until now (just been working on the classes and mechanics) but realized I didnt have the right knowledge to create an in depth world that I wanted until I had the right knowledge for it
I hope sometime in Extra Sci Fi, you get to David Weber's Honorverse. The rich worlds of Manticore, its enemies and allies, and the complex politics and personal relationships revolving around the Harringtons and their allies, especially the treecats. This universe is both implausible, and yet very possible depending on how you look at it.
It all reminds me of a time when J.R.R. Tolkien met with George R.R. Martin at a little cafe in Seattle. He said, “That’s nice, you should write it down.”
Best name in an RPG campaign I played in. Rab el Hali. An Arabic (fantasy equivalent of course) wizard. My friend named his wizard after a real desert. The name just fit perfectly. He went overboard later with the stereotyping as he dressed as his culture dictates (no problem there) and used his magic carpet to travel (even to the local market).
Huge sincere thanks for making this video! :) A "public service announcement" that is very sorely needed, judging from the many friends/acquaintances/coworkers I know who are massive sci-fi/fantasy fans, but are not even aware of the novel Dune's existence. I've been trying for literally decades to educate them all about precisely what this video is saying, that Frank Herbert was a Tolkien-level worldbuilding genius! :) Thank you again, awesome work!
I originally subscribed to this channel because I was interested on the workings of the video game programmers and how the Video Game World works, even though I was never going to be a part of that world. now I have all this EXTRA cool content, keep up the fantastic work guys 👊😎👌
Thanks for this , it made me realize one of the reasons I love my favourite author Terry pratchett. The world he built was amazing with amazing cultures clearly based on our own. But also seeing main characters turn up as minor ones in stories not about them gave me more interest in every book I read
Worldbuilding can take some weird but cool paths. Jojo's Bizzarre Adventure takes names from pop rock bands from the previous century; Homestuck has names based from astrology and ancient religions; Dragon Age takes inspiration from real life cultures from Europe, like France, Spain, etc.; Wakfu has names that are basically inverse versions of related words and some really bad puns.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure takes names from modern music too. Part 8, for instance, has a Stand called Born This Way, named after the song by Lady Gaga. The author was interviewed by Viz last year, and he said that he's currently a fan of Kanye West.
I am a massive Dune fan and I have a homebrew D&D setting where each language is given a real world inspiration. For example Elven is real world Latin and Halfling is Spanish. I did not realize that this may have been inspired in part by my favorite piece of fiction ever. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
If I hadn’t read tolkien as a child, I would have been a different person. His works are such an important part of my life I can’t imagine a world without them. I wouldn’t have my best friend without tolkien. (We met when she overheard me talking about the new hobbit movie coming out in 3rd grade)
Thanks for the breakdown! I want to publish a Sci Fi / Fantasy book before I turn 21, and my World Building revolves around the works of Tolkien, Hebert and the intricacies of Star Wars Legends!
Kwizats Hadarech in Hebrew is actually pronounced Kfitzat ha-de-rekh (the end is that ch\kh sound you don't have a letter for in English). As a native Hebrew speaker, I don't believe I would ever notice the reference while reading it in English, but it's nice to know. Also that mouse mua-dib would be pronounced Mu-Adib with an emphasis on the "a" sound.
Love you and all your series. I am not sure that Asimov's Foundation does not qualify as world building. Especially considering you could trace a line from the robot series through the empire series to the very end of foundations. I am not saying it's better or on the same level as Tolkien or Herbert, but it is world building.
This video reminds me of the very first Extra Credits video narrated by Matt, about the three pillars of game writing: Plot, Characters and Lore, and how is difficult to equalize the quality of those three pillars.
I've read a lot of fantasy books on my 33 years, and no one, has ever come close to the same Galaxy Tolkien resides in the art of naming places, people and things. It repeatedly blows my mind how when I try to read other authors no one has ever gotten close to do what he did. I think it's a severely underrated and underappreciated aspect of solid world building.
It seems that a lot of times people (both involved with worldbuilding/fantasy and not) write off settings as "tolkien clones" and "more of the same," but I sometimes wonder what it would have been like for him to develop all this stuff that wasn't really around until he did it. Herber too, I suppose, I don't know all that much about him though.
Tolkien have saved a bunch of authors many hours of world building. "In my world we have orcs, except they are caused by demons. And we have elves, except they are...." etc. Take the movie "Bright (2017)" for example. There is no way that movie would have worked if people didn't know what orcs and elves are, or the concept of "Dark Lord". They would had to spend a lot more of the movie on background information. Wether that is a good or a bad thing... I love learning about fictional cultures so I'd rather disappointed Bright didn't spend more time on it. But I also appreciate that not every work out there need to do its own world building.
Well, currently I'm marathon-reading Lovecraft chronologically (I'm in the mid-20s of his bibliography right now - in his "immigrants have ruined New York" period) and there's actually one or two of his short stories that kind of read as LotR but *without* the characters, plot, history or finesse. Essentially just paragraph after paragraph after paragraph of Lovecraft describing every fucking stone in the walls of this fantasy city I imagine he dreamed about during some recreational drug use. Reading these short stories was about as fascinating as watching paint dry in slow motion, but they do a pretty good job of demonstrating what the fantasy setting sounds like on its own. Horribly boring.
Another excellent example of how careful naming can influence a work is Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series (which I am currently reading). As the title suggests, time in The Wheel of Time is cyclical, so the events of the series simultaneously take place in the distant past and the far future. One of the ways this is established is how almost all of the names sound like they could prefigure or be descended from names that we are more familiar with. Some of the names sound similar to names from old myths and legends, like Egwene al'Vere to Guinevere or Artur Paendrag, commonly nicknamed Artur Hawkwing, prefiguring our legends of King Arthur, Arthur Pendragon. On the flipside, occasionally characters in the story reference the myths and legends of their time, some of which are based on corruptions of names and events of our time, like Noal Strongarm journeying to the Moon in the belly of an eagle being a clear reference to Neil Armstrong's lunar landing. And of course, similar to Tolkien and Herbert, all of the names of a given culture feel like they belong together, with the Aiel, a desert warrior people, for instance, having names like Aviendha, Bair, and Sorilea, while the simple country folk of the mountainous Two Rivers region, where the mighty kingdom of Manetheren once stood (notice the same concept as Rivendell in LOTR there -- the prosaic name, and the mysterious, ancient name), often have surnames like al'Thor or al'Vere, perhaps implying to the reader that these names may have originally referred to their ancestry or place of origin, although, like many modern Americans, they generally do not themselves know the origins of their names or what they mean. Jordan has other tricks as well, of course -- characters will sometimes pass old ruins and ancient monuments, some said to predate even the semi-mythic Age of Legends that preceded the written history of their world -- that come together to make the world feel very large and with a very deep history.
This is so helpful to aspiring writers! I can't remember how many stullpid names ive had to scrap, and this is a much faster way than just making up, because then you dont end up spending hours on such a comparatively small thing
Pratchett comes later, but if there isn't at least an episode on him I will be upset. His worldbuilding is very unique ,from my opinion, in that it isn't based around pure originality, but around incredibly skilfully developing parody of our primary world. That's what makes Discworld, and other books of his such as the Nomes trilogy, so amazing to read (at least for me).
I totally agree with everything except the dismissal of Asimov's Foundation and the Galactic World he created, it felt so alive when I read through it.
thanks for making another great video you always keep me entertained there internet that many youtube channels that make me drop what i am doing just to watch you and this channel is one of those channels
PSNSMANIACALMIND1st that’s true. The manga followed the same way as the show and wasn’t really great in my opinion. Was more like if the show was on paper. Now the End of Evangelion. Oh boy
I love this video I'm building my own world (and trying to make a language...) but this gives me the motivation to carry in for a while longer to shape my world like they did to try rival their works in both detail and the actual story
Great video. I love Tolkien and Herbert. I love LotR and Dune. They are best. Without Tolkien there wont be Game of Thrones. Without Herbert there wont be Warhammer.
That was awesome- I was in need of a way to explain the name thing to a friend and you were much more articulate than I was. Thanks. Can’t believe I missed 2 whole seasons. Still catching up on history. (But not as far behind on mythology, haha)
Alright, I'm curious. I lost my original Dune book, so I picked it up in the store a few months ago and was confused by things I don't remember being in the original text. Indeed, references are made to Brian Herbert's prequel books... which weren't nearly as good. While I have your attention, does anyone know if Brian went back and added to the original text? Because damn, it is distracting to read about Leto's previously unknown sister and this close relationship he had with Ix which never got mentioned again.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Welcome to Season 3 of Extra Sci Fi!
BTW, we have some Extra Sci Fi merch on the store now, including this soft t-shirt - store.dftba.com/collections/extracredits/products/extra-sci-fi-logo-shirt and a pack of illustration prints from the first 2 seasons, by series artist David Hueso - store.dftba.com/collections/extracredits/products/extra-sci-fi-illustration-pack
I love you guys
Can I recommend to the crew at Extra Credits the Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson? Sanderson, at least in my opinion, has fantastic world building and foreshadowing in his books. Check it out!
Don't forget thr battle of helms deep and the charge of pelennor were both based of he battle of on the siege of vennia
How soft is the T-shirt? I mean is it really, really soft, or just kind of soft?
I cannot wait to dive into this.
Right now I am world building a lot for my game, using existing and fantasy languages and expand on them.
I've written a book with the entire story script, shaped the World and even drew Maps for every place, so that I may not miss a single thing.
Each continent and island is messured after what I've learned about earth and I even studied Meteorology to make every place feel real.
Heck, I even created a Universe in the "Universe Sandbox Game" to see if my idea with three moons and a large sun would even be possible for a habitable planet.
I will learn so much from all of this, since I want this RPG to be as captivating as Lord of The Rings and Dune were for me :3
"We start with the simplest of things-"
Me: A hobbit!
"-names."
Oh.
What do you mean by "a habit"? Did you mean "a hobbit"?
Glad to hear I wasn't the only one to go that way.
I mean.... Technically you weren’t wrong.
I had the same exact thought
Same.
Good video, but there is one error I could find. Tolkien was adamant in saying that he created middle-earth to give the languages he made a world, not creating languages to expand that world.
Pretty much, he was a linguist and enjoyed creating languages.
I'm guessing Tolkien was a bit autistic.
Yes, Tolkien's primary field was philology, or evolutionary linguistics. Basically, he studied the way languages evolve, relate to, and influence one another. He took this knowledge and reproduced it in Arda. It's why you have the different dialects of Elvish stemming from the Sundering of the Elves, and why the Rohirric (i.e. the language of Rohan) we see in the text is based on Anglo-Saxon, among many other connections. (Tolkien saw the relationship between Westron/Common Speech and Rohirric as analogous to the relationship between English and Anglo-Saxon. Since he used English to represent Westron, it follows that he used Anglo-Saxon to represent Rohirric.)
Edward Armstrong real classy comment, very convincing. Your powers of deduction are truly beyond compare
@@kana22693
Who here isnt?
Tolkien + Herbert
Mt. Dune
sums up!
BOO!
The silmarillion, a book comprised of the unfinished works of Tolkien after his death, incredibly describes middle earth's history and details that never made it into their own stories. Tolkien had a knack for providing extensive description of the world he created almost to the point where it kinda becomes too much. He's the kind of writer who will write a chapter describing the wind conditions on a particular evening but write a battle in one paragraph. A friend of mine said that If the silmarillion were made into a movie it would just be a long family tree on the screen scrolling down for 3 hours.
Thats not really the case. The the most important story in the silmarillion, the quenta silmarillion is my all time favourite story. It really feels like reading a real epic history or ancient myth. It has loads of names yes, but also so many interesting stuff going on. From the tale of Hurin and his children, to Barahir and Beren and Luthien. All of these could be made into a great movie.
I'd love that movie. It could be made as narration with family trees but also breaks for action sequences showcasing some of the most important events.
Imagine 10 hr long Silmarillion movie like that...
One could only dream...
It would be really boring. But epic. And I would definitly pay money for it and watch the first hour, before leave it to dust in my bookcase. Just like the book. :)
I don't think you'd do that: you'd pick ONE of the many Silmarillion stories, and just concentrate on that. Not the whole thing, it's too too too detailed.
The lord of the rings and hobbit movies should have incorparated elments of silmarillion.
You keep talking about how Tolkien put his heart and soul into coming up with languages and names to fit them which made me remember that there were three trolls in the hobbit named Tom, Bert, and William.
That's just what he thinks of the English XD
😂😂😂😂🍸🍸..you tellm bro!!😂😂
Bifor, Bofur, Bombur...Tolkien later regretted pulling all the dwarves' names straight from Norse mythology rather "lazily" or something like that.
@@squamish4244 either way I’m glad he did it, cause it’s hilarious.
based.
I feel like UA-cam is watching me like the eye of Sauron because this is precisely what I was thinking about. They see everything.
Or, for a 'Dune' take: you came to this moment because this is the only moment you allowed to be because you tried to avoid this very thing despite knowing it was the only true choice! 🤯
World History With Dan Oh tell me about it, I was reading The Lord of the Rings when I noticed this in my notifications
@@scarredchild Kul Wahad! Your words contain meanings within meanings within meanings.
@@scarredchild I'm with you, except why would anyone avoid Extra? Pure joy, every time.
I'll be honest. I've never heard of Herbert and even his work. Sorry
I've read Dune sixteen times, and I still find intriguing and new things each time I read through it, as well as the other five in the series. Absolutely fascinating books
Even after 16 times?
I gotta make an effort and read them again a 5th time.
@@シロダサンダー yes I definitely still get so much out of Dune every time I read through it, mainly the aspects of politics, theology, metaphysics, ecology etc. that are everywhere in the novel. I'm no expert or 'intellectual' by any stretch, but Dune and the rest of the series are some of the only books that had me writing down certain quotes in a notebook because they were so profound to me. I know I'm probably over-hyping Dune, but when I first read it when I was 13 it really made me contemplate the actual capabilities of the human mind and body, even though I knew that most of the mentat and bene gesserit feats of control and computation were impossible. Though it made me consider how humanity might evolve in the future in ways which would be able to achieve such mastery over their own bodies. Anyway, the point is that it made me think deeply about more subjects than any other novel I've read, and it still does every time. It's some good shit 👌
so, how bout them atriedes? elitist swine! good think for the harkonnens hanging around making them look better. siona was the worst of them all though, getting all her friends killed in her feud with worm uncle
cloudbloom I feel the same about LOTR . I’ve read them many times and even bought books about the books and history of them and everything but it’s been a few years since I’ve read them last
They're terribly-written monstrosities.
I'm crying already. Tolkien and Herbert are my idols on fantasy and sci-fi respectively. Thank you Extra Credits! We are not worthy (but we try).
You are right my lady!!!
Why Lord of the Rings feels alive? I'll just left it here
The world was young, the mountains green,
No stain yet on the moon was seen,
No words were laid on stream or stone
When Durin woke and walked alone.
He named the nameless hills and dells;
He drank from yet untasted wells;
He stooped and looked in Mirrormere,
And saw a crown of stars appear,
As gems upon a silver thread,
Above the shadows of his head.
The world is grey, the mountains old,
The forge's fire is ashen-cold;
No harp is wrung, no hammer falls
The darkness dwells in Durin's halls;
The shadow lies upon his tomb
In Moria, in Khazad-dûm.
But still the sunken stars appear
In dark and windless Mirrormere;
There lies his crown in water deep,
Till Durin wakes again from sleep.
You son of a bitch, I JUST got the Clamavi De Profundus song version of the poem out of my head and BACK IN IT GOES.
Where does this poem comes from?
@@swishfish8858
YESS damn it!
that is exactly why i don't read tolkien
@@luciferangelica , which makes no sense, thanks for playing.
This is one of the few times I've seen Herbert's Dune mentioned and explained in current media. I honestly think more people should get involved in the Dune universe, it is a very deep and entertaining world.
Legendary is working on two new dune movies so more and more youtubers are jumping on the dune hype train and discussing dune. It is said that the new dune movies will blow any other recent Scifi (along the lines of Star Trek Discovery and the Star War Sequel movies) out of the water.
One part of Herbert's Dune that always fascinated me was how the Fremen have such a strong resemblance with arabic nomad tribes, and how one can basically experience in the books how religion is very direct translation of a peoples relationship to the natural environment they are confined in. I find it fascinating how Christianity has a lot of animistic undertones when placed in it's original landscape, and how it has become disjointed and misunderstood by spreading it into other environments that do not represent the original landscape. In Dune this also happens as the holy Crusade of the Fremen spreads throughout the galaxy. While the religion of Shai-Hulud serves a very real and important function on the desert planet of Arrakis, it becomes corrupted once it has spread to other planets that in no way represent the religions original environment. Dune is basically a case study in how all religions stem from an animistic tradition, but how civilization tends to remove the meaning from a religion as the people lose contact with their natural environment. Another thing that I find fascinating is that Herbert adds Daoistic elements in the Zensunni philosophers that wander in the Arrakeen deserts. Since I have strong fascination for Daoist philosophy, I find it wonderful to find such a deep understanding of the importance of landscape and ecology in human culture and how an environment shapes a persons identity. Destroying an environment also destroys the people living there, even if you give them all the modern advantages. Nature just tends to inspire spiritual experience and philosophy in people once they have learned to tackle the dangers of that environment. I find it amazing that such a deep understanding of ecology and culture was presented in Dune as early as 1965.
Frank Herbert was a real life Mentat.
Tolkien is a personal hero of mine. He crafted a world, steeped in British themes, that had a sense of grand beauty and pure awe. When i watch return of the king, it never fails to make me sob at the last ten minutes, from Sam’s heroic push to Frodo’s leaving middle earth. It’s just a world that feels so whimsical and anciently grand.
Dune is one of my all time favorite novels, thank you for showing appreciation for the world building of Frank Herbert.
He did a good job in exploring the human condition and its mannerisms when exposed and shaped by the environment, religion, government, etc.
One does not simply make a master piece.
@William Blevins one does not simply discredit sean bean
Woo, Extra Sci-Fi is back, and it's on Tolkien and Herbert. This series is great, and I can't wait for more! Great video!
This reminds me of a Dungeons & Dragons book that I read once. It was written by Gary Gygax, the creator of D&D, and also went over the topic of names alone called "Gary Gygax's Extraordinary Book of Names". It also provides a lot of building blocks for names.
PLEASE do more on tolkien. Hell, middle-earth deserves a mini-series in its own right. There's *so* much there
Herbert's work has had a profound impact on popular culture. The Dune series has been cited as an influence by writers such as George R.R. Martin, Ursula K. Le Guin, and William Gibson. Herbert's work has also been praised by scientists for its prescience on issues such as climate change and environmental degradation.
On this day, we pay tribute to Frank Herbert, one of the greatest science fiction writers of all time. His work has inspired and entertained readers for generations, and his legacy continues to inspire new writers and creators.
Thank you, Frank Herbert, for your gift to the world.
*LOVE FROM INDIA*
Its obligatory on every video relating to Dune.
The spice must flow.
Arakis. Desert Planet. Dune.
FATHER! THE SLEEPER HAS AWAKENED!!!
@@weldonwin That's more of a Lynchean thing
@@armr6937 Hmmm... *(Spits on the floor)*
@@weldonwin Thank you
I love worldbuilding as a hobby... I have more of a Herbert approach to names, as I lack the fortitude and patience to create entire language, though, and I rather build my names from our languages. A city surrounded by a river that’s black from ash is named Schwarzwasser, literally "black water" in German. It’s basic, but it gets the job done.
I find German names do give medieval towns a fun gothic feel. Maybe I've just focused on middle-ages Germany too much. I love the trick of naming towns after their surroundings, like Rivendell and your Schwarwasser. So many real cities are named that way, that it just seems natural. One good example is the city of Rothenburg ob der Tauber. Awesome sounding name. It just means Redcastle over the Tauber river. (Ironically, the castle's actually mostly gone.)
I like to take a half-way approach. If I need an exotic or cool name, I'll take a word that best describes what I'm naming, boot each consonant up by one or two in the alphabet, and play with it until it sounds good. I test it by using it in casual conversation and seeing how out-of-place it is.
@@Bombom1300
You want Gothic sounding names?
Try Gothic, its an East-Germanic language. ;)
@@gunjfur8633 There is a reason we associate "Gothic" with Germany. The Germans used a typo we call "Gothic" well into the 20th century.
@@helicongremory8480
Theres also Gothic armor, architecture & literature, etc...
I know my history. I even used the typo myself.
I just recomended the language because its "litteraly gothic". ;p
What I like about the names of human NPCs in Dark Souls is how many are just real European names that not a lot of people have anymore. Not hating on con-lang names or anything (hell, Dark Souls even borrows a lot from elvish), its just that it was refreshing to get my estus flask from Oscar of Astora and not Schmibadongulor of Astora. Less is more sometimes.
The titles tell you a lot about the characters as well. Like when you finally face the 'lord of sunlight' he's become the 'lord of cinder'.
You know what's interesting?
Dark Souls went about like how Tolkien's writings went about.
Tolkien fiddled with languages and made a world for it.
Dark Souls was a game that had a game mechanic and then was given a world for it. Started with Demon Souls.
Or so I heard.
I'm going to use Schmibadongulor as a character name thanks :)
Oscar is still a pretty common name in Spanish, and it was rather funny to find it in Dark Souls. But yeah, Dark Souls borrows a lot from Elvish. Just think about Anor Londo meaning "Port of the setting Sun"
@@kenobi6257 Yeah it's fun how Spanish has kept so many names in common use derived from the many cultures that mixed in the Iberian peninsula over the ages. Oscar by the way is a germanic name composed of Os (God or Gods) and Garr (spear) so Oscar is Godspear! We can probably thank the visigodos for that one.
It's almost like Tolkien taught linguistics or something.
He did.
@@K.N.1453 Sarcasm, man.
Yeah, sarcasm...never heard of it!(i'm ebarassed and trying to hide it)
@@K.N.1453 It's OK, we'll just give you a obligatory r/wooosh. Have a nice day!
Tolkien inspired me so much, I love fantasy and wrote my own fantacy world trying to make something as exiting as what he did and with what I have now I'm satisfied
As a big Tolkien fan I’m excited that you’ve finally gotten to making a video about him.
2:36
Okey. This is from 6:48 in the morning in Madrid, Spain. And this Lothlorien made me wake up the neighbour's dog.
Pure laught. Probably first of the year. Thanks.
I just finished Tolkien's The Fall of Gondolin. Finished The Children of Hurin a month ago. This video came out of the perfect time for me. Gonna have to read both again.
@Mason West There are more than 2 LOTR games. Not all are lore-friendly, though.
Children of Hurin is fantastic, would have loved one adaptation rather than a Hobbit trilogy.
Did you cry at the end of hurin?... Just me?
@Mason West those fail to adapt the source material. They don't have the LOTR tagline because the Tolkien Estate refused them that trademark due to their disregard for the lore. Those games are literally just poor man's AC in a bastardized Middle Earth
@Mason West the two most faithful LOTR games are Lord of The Rings: War in the North and The Lord of the Rings Online. I have not played Lord of The Rings: Battpe for Middle Earth, but I have heard it trys to stay relatively faithful
So happy to have this series back.
That moment when you are watching a video about Dune while reading Dune. :D
This is more about a world than Oddworld will ever be written about, thank you for this
I'm so excited for an ENTIRE SEASON of Tolkein (and Herbert). I really love Lord of the Rings (and I haven't read Dune). I'm excited to see them analyzed closely.
If you love the epiness and myth of Tolkien's universe, you will love Dune. It has the same thousands of years spanning backstory that you can get lost in.
Me:I'm bored.
*This gets uploaded*
Me:What did I say?
I think you said yo were shorn?
"Flash!! savior of the Universe!!",,"Flasssh!!!"...
make the quote!!
0:58 most mythic world building is inspired by ancient religion. I believe this is covered in the Extra Mythology Series Announcement (Oct 4, 2018). Additionally, this is also backed up by another series, Crash Course World Mythology, specifically called out in episode 1 (Feb 24, 2017). I am very happy we are able to enjoy these concepts and stories as entertainment :)
I find it extremely amazing how Tolkien's universe feels real, without at all being realistic. Like, the political,economical and psychological world building in lord of the rigs is very, very flat but it doesn't seem important in this world. This world isn't like ours, the humans aren't like we are, but they are still weldefined.
You nailed it, EC! These two authors established a tapestry upon which they hung the narrative. Without this, the reader falls out of a story, like a bad movie where the backdrop is flimsy cardboard.
I've been waiting for herbert's episode. So excited he gets a whole season!
This video came out on the exact right moment for me. Ive been working on a game passion project for a very long time and felt a bad that I didnt get to the world building until now (just been working on the classes and mechanics) but realized I didnt have the right knowledge to create an in depth world that I wanted until I had the right knowledge for it
I hope sometime in Extra Sci Fi, you get to David Weber's Honorverse. The rich worlds of Manticore, its enemies and allies, and the complex politics and personal relationships revolving around the Harringtons and their allies, especially the treecats. This universe is both implausible, and yet very possible depending on how you look at it.
It all reminds me of a time when J.R.R. Tolkien met with George R.R. Martin at a little cafe in Seattle. He said, “That’s nice, you should write it down.”
Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien
Jirt
In case anyone's wondering, it's actually John Ronald Reuel Tolkien.
@@Ashebrethafe
Neat, how bout Martin?
Gunjα Fury George Reorge Rartin Martin
@@gunjfur8633 George Richard Raymond Martin.
Best name in an RPG campaign I played in. Rab el Hali. An Arabic (fantasy equivalent of course) wizard. My friend named his wizard after a real desert. The name just fit perfectly. He went overboard later with the stereotyping as he dressed as his culture dictates (no problem there) and used his magic carpet to travel (even to the local market).
Huge sincere thanks for making this video! :) A "public service announcement" that is very sorely needed, judging from the many friends/acquaintances/coworkers I know who are massive sci-fi/fantasy fans, but are not even aware of the novel Dune's existence. I've been trying for literally decades to educate them all about precisely what this video is saying, that Frank Herbert was a Tolkien-level worldbuilding genius! :) Thank you again, awesome work!
They definitely knew what they were Tolkien Herbert.
Bah dum tss
Got em.
Uhhh my soul *seriously* needed some Extra SciFi 💪💚
I greatly enjoy the work of both these authors, I even incorporated Dune as part of a final essay for a class
I've been waiting for this for months, and already can't wait for the next episode!
I originally subscribed to this channel because I was interested on the workings of the video game programmers and how the Video Game World works, even though I was never going to be a part of that world. now I have all this EXTRA cool content, keep up the fantastic work guys 👊😎👌
it is great to have extra scifi back this is going to be a great series I can already tell
Yes! Finally Herbert! Plus Tolkien and you made my day :)
So glad this channel is highlighting two of the best and my favourite authors ever :)
Thanks for this , it made me realize one of the reasons I love my favourite author Terry pratchett. The world he built was amazing with amazing cultures clearly based on our own. But also seeing main characters turn up as minor ones in stories not about them gave me more interest in every book I read
I certainly hope Ursula K. Le Guin will come up soon! She’s certainly up there with Frank Herbert and Tolkien when it comes to names and languages.
I JUST started to re-read Dune the other day. What perfect timing, can't wait for more!
Worldbuilding can take some weird but cool paths. Jojo's Bizzarre Adventure takes names from pop rock bands from the previous century; Homestuck has names based from astrology and ancient religions; Dragon Age takes inspiration from real life cultures from Europe, like France, Spain, etc.; Wakfu has names that are basically inverse versions of related words and some really bad puns.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure takes names from modern music too. Part 8, for instance, has a Stand called Born This Way, named after the song by Lady Gaga. The author was interviewed by Viz last year, and he said that he's currently a fan of Kanye West.
@@Overhazard I am happy that Araki is working with current times, but I am sad about him liking Kanye West.
You don't even know how happy I am this series is back
I am a massive Dune fan and I have a homebrew D&D setting where each language is given a real world inspiration. For example Elven is real world Latin and Halfling is Spanish. I did not realize that this may have been inspired in part by my favorite piece of fiction ever. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
I'm so glad this series is back.
Tolkien, Heubert, and Gaiman. This should span generations.
As someone who is ready to publish my first novel and influenced by both writers, this is the best late christmas present ever
Now this has an impact on me, as I want one day write tales or at least short histories, so actually this is great.
Awensome job as always, keep it up
Dune taught me the complex history behind the wars in the Middle East
This is absolutely fantastic. Currently reading Children of Dune and Fellowship is actually next on my list. So pumped for the rest of this season!
I appreciate this video because how Tolkien used language for world building was the topic of my Brit Lit final project in high school :)
I'm so happy Extra Sci-Fi is back!
If I hadn’t read tolkien as a child, I would have been a different person. His works are such an important part of my life I can’t imagine a world without them. I wouldn’t have my best friend without tolkien. (We met when she overheard me talking about the new hobbit movie coming out in 3rd grade)
Thanks for the breakdown! I want to publish a Sci Fi / Fantasy book before I turn 21, and my World Building revolves around the works of Tolkien, Hebert and the intricacies of Star Wars Legends!
Kwizats Hadarech in Hebrew is actually pronounced Kfitzat ha-de-rekh (the end is that ch\kh sound you don't have a letter for in English). As a native Hebrew speaker, I don't believe I would ever notice the reference while reading it in English, but it's nice to know.
Also that mouse mua-dib would be pronounced Mu-Adib with an emphasis on the "a" sound.
Great video, my friend. All story makers should watch this!
Love you and all your series. I am not sure that Asimov's Foundation does not qualify as world building. Especially considering you could trace a line from the robot series through the empire series to the very end of foundations. I am not saying it's better or on the same level as Tolkien or Herbert, but it is world building.
This video reminds me of the very first Extra Credits video narrated by Matt, about the three pillars of game writing: Plot, Characters and Lore, and how is difficult to equalize the quality of those three pillars.
Herbert and Tolkien’s language making skills are what I seek to aspire.
Like Terry Pratchetts Diskworld?
I guess.
I'm still waiting for the Ursala Le Guin episode
I've read a lot of fantasy books on my 33 years, and no one, has ever come close to the same Galaxy Tolkien resides in the art of naming places, people and things. It repeatedly blows my mind how when I try to read other authors no one has ever gotten close to do what he did. I think it's a severely underrated and underappreciated aspect of solid world building.
It seems that a lot of times people (both involved with worldbuilding/fantasy and not) write off settings as "tolkien clones" and "more of the same," but I sometimes wonder what it would have been like for him to develop all this stuff that wasn't really around until he did it. Herber too, I suppose, I don't know all that much about him though.
Tolkien have saved a bunch of authors many hours of world building. "In my world we have orcs, except they are caused by demons. And we have elves, except they are...." etc. Take the movie "Bright (2017)" for example. There is no way that movie would have worked if people didn't know what orcs and elves are, or the concept of "Dark Lord". They would had to spend a lot more of the movie on background information.
Wether that is a good or a bad thing... I love learning about fictional cultures so I'd rather disappointed Bright didn't spend more time on it. But I also appreciate that not every work out there need to do its own world building.
Well, currently I'm marathon-reading Lovecraft chronologically (I'm in the mid-20s of his bibliography right now - in his "immigrants have ruined New York" period) and there's actually one or two of his short stories that kind of read as LotR but *without* the characters, plot, history or finesse. Essentially just paragraph after paragraph after paragraph of Lovecraft describing every fucking stone in the walls of this fantasy city I imagine he dreamed about during some recreational drug use.
Reading these short stories was about as fascinating as watching paint dry in slow motion, but they do a pretty good job of demonstrating what the fantasy setting sounds like on its own. Horribly boring.
I'm SUPER looking forward to this season!
The illustration at 3:51 is interesting because it shows they see Tolkien's building of his world as the building of something larger than himself.
I've been re-reading Dune lately, so this series is more than welcome.
Can't be more excited for this new season!
Been waiting for you to get to Herbert and then you mix it up with some Tolkien. Oh this is gonna be good!
First time I've been early to one of these. I've never clicked "like" so fast, and I'm delighted that this will be a series.
Another excellent example of how careful naming can influence a work is Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series (which I am currently reading). As the title suggests, time in The Wheel of Time is cyclical, so the events of the series simultaneously take place in the distant past and the far future. One of the ways this is established is how almost all of the names sound like they could prefigure or be descended from names that we are more familiar with. Some of the names sound similar to names from old myths and legends, like Egwene al'Vere to Guinevere or Artur Paendrag, commonly nicknamed Artur Hawkwing, prefiguring our legends of King Arthur, Arthur Pendragon. On the flipside, occasionally characters in the story reference the myths and legends of their time, some of which are based on corruptions of names and events of our time, like Noal Strongarm journeying to the Moon in the belly of an eagle being a clear reference to Neil Armstrong's lunar landing. And of course, similar to Tolkien and Herbert, all of the names of a given culture feel like they belong together, with the Aiel, a desert warrior people, for instance, having names like Aviendha, Bair, and Sorilea, while the simple country folk of the mountainous Two Rivers region, where the mighty kingdom of Manetheren once stood (notice the same concept as Rivendell in LOTR there -- the prosaic name, and the mysterious, ancient name), often have surnames like al'Thor or al'Vere, perhaps implying to the reader that these names may have originally referred to their ancestry or place of origin, although, like many modern Americans, they generally do not themselves know the origins of their names or what they mean. Jordan has other tricks as well, of course -- characters will sometimes pass old ruins and ancient monuments, some said to predate even the semi-mythic Age of Legends that preceded the written history of their world -- that come together to make the world feel very large and with a very deep history.
This is so helpful to aspiring writers! I can't remember how many stullpid names ive had to scrap, and this is a much faster way than just making up, because then you dont end up spending hours on such a comparatively small thing
If you want a good example of ever-developing worldbuilding, there is always Pratchett.
Pratchett comes later, but if there isn't at least an episode on him I will be upset. His worldbuilding is very unique ,from my opinion, in that it isn't based around pure originality, but around incredibly skilfully developing parody of our primary world. That's what makes Discworld, and other books of his such as the Nomes trilogy, so amazing to read (at least for me).
I totally agree with everything except the dismissal of Asimov's Foundation and the Galactic World he created, it felt so alive when I read through it.
So happy this series is back!
thanks for making another great video you always keep me entertained
there internet that many youtube channels that make me drop what i am doing just to watch you and this channel is one of those channels
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, a full season of this titans!? This is going to be epic!
This channel keeps on giving
Oh man. I can’t wait until you guys get to things like manga. Serial experiments lain and neon genesis evangelion. Great discussions right there.
Eva manga isn't near as impactful as the show. Hopefully they transition mediums for those episodes.
PSNSMANIACALMIND1st that’s true. The manga followed the same way as the show and wasn’t really great in my opinion. Was more like if the show was on paper. Now the End of Evangelion. Oh boy
Together they are known as: TOLBERT! ALL HAIL TOLBERT!
I love this video I'm building my own world (and trying to make a language...) but this gives me the motivation to carry in for a while longer to shape my world like they did to try rival their works in both detail and the actual story
I can't wait for the next episode! I ended up taking notes for the entire thing, so thanks!
Great video. I love Tolkien and Herbert. I love LotR and Dune. They are best.
Without Tolkien there wont be Game of Thrones.
Without Herbert there wont be Warhammer.
3:48 is legit a visual representation of Gaelic.
This is gonna be such a good series, I am so excited!
That was awesome- I was in need of a way to explain the name thing to a friend and you were much more articulate than I was. Thanks. Can’t believe I missed 2 whole seasons. Still catching up on history. (But not as far behind on mythology, haha)
Whaaat how did you guys know I just finished reading Dune? An episode just for me? D'aww you're too sweet!
Just finished Dune, and now I'm starting the sequel. I'm so excited!
Alright, I'm curious. I lost my original Dune book, so I picked it up in the store a few months ago and was confused by things I don't remember being in the original text. Indeed, references are made to Brian Herbert's prequel books... which weren't nearly as good.
While I have your attention, does anyone know if Brian went back and added to the original text? Because damn, it is distracting to read about Leto's previously unknown sister and this close relationship he had with Ix which never got mentioned again.