As a Rome: Total War fan, I will heartily recommend that you check a mod for the game called The Fourth Age: Dominion of Men. It is the final release of a modification that is fully based in The New Shadow. In it, with lore always in mind and trying to keep as true as possible to Tolkien´s vision, the creators personify Herumor, develop the cult as both a political and religious entity, and try to forecast what would have happened from Aragorn´s death until the the year 350 of the Fourth Age. It is at that moment that the player finally is allowed to participate in the game.
I'm all for it! Any new Tolkien content is exciting. There are so many open ends and potential for more content in the Tolkien universe. Still I would prefer more detailed stories from the First or Second ages if I had to choose
As much as I long to hear more, at the same time, his having left this unfinished allows there to be a "more" to long for. I think, in the whole, I"m glad he didn't complete it. He had good, sound, reasons and we ourselves can well imagine potential outcomes and continuations with the threads he did begin.
In my opinion, the greatest aspect to Tolkien is that he writes and speaks of Middle Earth like a historian, not a novelist. He presents FACTS about the world he created, not just ideas and narratives. It adds a whole other dimension to the experience of those who choose to read and learn.
Yeah he says things like he discovered or he ponders about what happened to the Ent Wives, he speaks about it like he's an observer, which makes me able to imagine that it really exists somewhere
I think not. As everyone knows,Tolkien was a true Catholic and the doctrine of this religion is intimately embedded in all of his work. And this doctrine says that evil needs to be fought and defeated. And not just supported or tolerated for mere convenience.
What is so bad with evil anyway. Typically its more epic and badass. Because of what Morgoth did. He made the middle-earth more intresting place as whole, when without Melkor influence on arda. The world would be booring place with no conflict, when its just booring peace forever.
This reminds me of a great quote from Neil Gaiman's Sandman. For those who haven't read it, Bette is a minor character who likes to create stories about the people she knows: "All Bette's stories have happy endings. That's because she knows where to stop. She's realized the real problem with stories-if you keep them going long enough, they always end in death.”
What bad with sad ending. It makes it more engaging realzing through the story why this person ended up like that. Happy stories with nice ending with peace are just focking booring, when there are thousands of them, so I dont really mind sad or devastating ending, when it can also tell through the story why this person ended up like this.
@@jout738 True - but Gaiman wasn't presenting Bette's philosophy as right. She's a naive character who doesn't want to deal with pain, but Gaiman makes it very clear that pain and death are natural parts of life. Tolkien felt the same. I only quoted the line about Bette because I think "Well, I'm back" at the end of The Return of the King was the perfect place to end LotR. I think he was right to stop work on The Return of the Shadow.
@@jout738 It's not about why sad endings are bad. It's that all things end, and the final end is death, destruction, decay, losing what was once there. To have a happy ending means cutting the story off at the right moment, not the last moment when the story runs out and leaves only rot.
Just like movie franchises that lose their touch, drifting far away from their roots of form if more movies kept being made by abusing it as a trend. Sequels tend to forget what made the concepts special in the first place. For example, Star Wars, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, MCU, and Jurassic Park.
Not only was Tolkien a mythologist, but he deeply understood human nature. We can see much of his concerns manifesting on the world stage today. Man becomes bored in his safety, and creates strife with others to validate his need for excitement and importance. Tolkien knew it will never end, this hunger for wickedness. And he was right to leave his brilliance with the trilogy.
ye, and the authorwrote it as a trilogy, and decided it should be a trilogy. without the author, there is no lotr, so ima just call it a trilogy@@harlengreen8981
It would have been fascinating to have a sequel, but in many ways I'm glad it didn't. LotR can be considered perfect as a story, and a sequel would have probably been overshadowed (pun intended) by the original story
Well on the other hand imagine a thriller featuring the lost kings of the Avari elves Morwe and Nurwe having lived on into the third age and with the addition king Thranduil not being a companion of Cirdan on the last ship. Awesome villains + good real fear (without jumpscares) + massive plot twists + awesome surrogates + unparalleled endings.
Yeah a "sequel" would be great if it were solely about human concerns, "magic" moving forward doesn't fit well to the overarching narrative. Sauron was really just the last vestige of Valar interference, and it's clear that a sequel would have to be a sorta dry human story.
This would have made an amazing short film It's mood and theme are creepy and mysterious But I agree with Tolkien; end the story we know on a high note Our reality is a burden enough
If it should end on the high note, then I feel like Tolkien's rejection to write it was not because it would make the ending depressing, but because he felt that he would not have time to create an uplifting sequel that would take place after the depressing sequel.
I, unlike most Middle Earth fans, completely disagree with the idea that the story and history of evil in Middle Earth would not have made for a very interesting continuation (I am saying this after having heard what the video said so please pay attention). Christopher or any other Tolkien would have done well had they wanted to keep writing more on Middle Earth and we would have loved it if, they had visions and ideas of how amazing it could have been done. I know how it could have been done, but it's obvious Tolkien didn't want to think deeper on the possibilities and the wonderful dynamics and paths that were open to more Middle Earth life, color, adventure and horror. I do hate seeing how everyone MUST follow along and never think outside that narrow tunnel. You all give up so easily. The Silmarillion, TLOTR, The Hobbit and the rest of Tolkien's fantasy writings are my favorite readings, btw.
I would have liked to have read the new shadow. It would have been akin to the Scourging of the Shire on steroids with a little bit of game of thrones mixed in. The reason Tolkien created the Lord of the Rings was to create a new mythology for England. This story would effectively serve as a bridge between middle earth and real earth. It is the part where high fantasy turns into low fantasy and then merges with known history. I could see tie ins with the Mabinogion tales and Arthurian legend. Narsil could be Excalibur. Maybe there would be a great cataclysm that would rend apart middle earth and reshape the land to look like Europe similar to what happened to Berriland at the end of the first age. Gondor would be drowned under the English channel and north sea.
I cannot fully describe how gut-wrenching it was to find out in Star Wars that this "First Order" had risen and taken control of the galaxy in one go. It completely destroyed the great victory over the empire in ROTJ, when even for Star Wars there were so many significant threads that were left undone that could have been explored. LOTR seems to have shored up a vast majority of their loose ends, so doing a sequel seemed kinda pointless.
The story described here seems more akin to the thrawn novels from the star wars legends, the empire and Republic have swapped roles and its the "empire" as a small insurgent force vs the larger, un organised new Republic, great way to flip the story. Shame the new star wars films didn't at least follow that part of the thrawn books, or understand luke skywalker but thats a whole other conversation.
"...not worth doing" Tolkien was a scholar of myths. He was a myth-writer. A mere "thriller" set in the LotR universe would have been a disservice to the "high fantasy" which had gone before. He was a wise steward of the world he had created. It would have been easy to do otherwise.
Not the greatest author really but he created his own language and used some linguistic gimmiks which may be appreciated by some but all in all a decent fantasy author.
No doubt a great story could have been written in this setting. However, the point as I understand it is that having this story set in Middle Earth would not have added additional value.
It would have been easy to write such a book poorly, but that doesn't mean the attempt shouldn't be made. Perhaps it wasn't time to tell that particular story just yet. Perhaps the time will come.
@@crowonthepowerlines , My point wasn't that the book would have been poorly done in itself, but that it would have been a different kind of book, even if done well. The shift would have detracted from what had already been written even if the newer book was well-written for what it was.
Unlike most storytellers today, Tolkien truly believed what he preached--that food, cheer and song are more valuable than hoarded gold, and a good story cannot be measured in monetary value. Today, most authors and writers are more concerned with making bank and catering to whatever the current fad is, than even telling a good story. Marvel, Disney, Paramount, Amazon, all busy corrupting priceless literary gems like Ungoliant and Melkor destroying the Trees of Valinor.
"most authors and writers are more concerned with making bank and catering to whatever the current fad is, than even telling a good story." You can't blame writers for wanting to make a decent living.
@admiralfrancis8424 they don't want a decent living. They want money. It's different. Do you believe that Tolkien or any other old writer, were poor poor or rich? Probably the most of the money was earner by his family after him.
I always did wonder if Tolkin had written the sequel if he would have linked it to the fate of the two Blue Wizards. He dithered on their fate but them falling to evil and starting magical cults could have been used for the New Shadow.
That would have been interesting, and would have continued Tolkien's pattern of greater things being replaced by somewhat lesser (Morgoth > Sauron > Blue Wizards). The danger is that those who can stand on par with the Blue Wizards have left Middle Earth. I can see a couple of paths involving the Blue Wizards: 1) Fallen as best friends, they function as one. "Herumor" is perceived as one Black Lord, but is actually two, and can therefore appear in distant places when expected in another. 2) A tragedy of separation: One is fallen, twisted of Sauron. The other remains true to the Valar, and must lead the fight against his best friend.
My problem is that with LOTR you practically removed all magic, and it was essential to that point, so yes, Blue Wizards could be used. However I do not feel it would be enough. There are no golems, no dragons, no orcs, ents, or elves, plus some small number of dwarfs... Goblins?! You still have vast infrastructure built by dwarfs and elves, maybe that could be used. So it would be most logical to start evil with human greed, but also in same time roll over whole reality of those passed 100 years since Aragorn died. Maybe human finding some elves literature and gaining advantage over others... That would actually be really corny way of extending legacy.
@@GranDaddo Many of the things you listed there are still present in this time period. All of these races and creatures didn't vanish and many of them went on to flourish in some way.
@@Jnaathra I thought Smaug was the last one, that fleed after defeat, but did not survive long after, that all of Elves left to Valinor, and ones that remained slowly decline. Not many dwarfs left after battle of five armies... So I thought thats it.
@@GranDaddo Smaug was the last of the great dragons, lesser kin survived after the war of the ring. The Dwarven race has all sorts of cool things that happen after the War of the Ring. They help rebuild cities in Gondor and the fortress of Hornburg. The Glittering Caves become a newly established realm for them. The Lonely Mountain kingdom prospers. Durin VII (the Last), retakes Moria and brought Khazad-dûm back to its original splendor, and the Longbeards lived there till the "world grew old and the days of Durin's race ended." You also mention Ents, but I don't know of any writings that state they departed or ceased to be. I know they are gifted Nan Curunír by King Elessar in gratitude for their aid and that they established a new forest there called Watchwood. The list goes on!
Tolkien had a lot of weight on his shoulders after the war and I think he removed a lot of it with the Lord of the Rings. He found peace and was content with that. In that light it makes sense as to why he never made a sequel. Why trudge up old wounds for similar outcomes.
I would be careful to link Tolkien's writing to his war experiences. Tolkien hated allegories like that, because he deemed them to be pretentious and (above all) condescending. In his foreword to LOTR he vehemently denies that war guided his writing hand.
@@MightyJabroni I've always questioned that a little. I respect what he said of himself but none of us can truly say 100% with certainty that we are never guided by past experiences.
The only full follow up I would have ever wanted to read would be about the end of time on middle earth. We know that Tolkien had created a rough outline for it. Melkor gets free and there is a final battle that results in the destruction of all evil forever and Eru Illuvatar creates everything new. That's what I would have enjoyed. The ending of the old world and the creation of the promised paradise.
I think it would've definitely been a story worth writing, because it doesn't take anything from the great victory over Sauron, but it does remind us that eternal vigilance is the price of virtue and freedom, and that people, put in a situation of plenty and wealth, will often become complacent and bored, leading to stagnation, weakness and sometimes outright evil.
but there is nothing epic,no great evil just men doing plots... it would be a game of thrones...and i think that is no place for that in tolken's world.
@@ArlindoBuritiThere would still be room for epicness... Apart from Gondor and King Aragorn's newly-revitalised Arnor - which would be fascinating to explore in itself - there were many distinct cultures of Men in Middle-Earth which would be fascinating to explore like the Dúnedain Rangers up north in Eriador and Rhôvanion, the Haradrim from the deserts and jungles of Harad, the reclusive Druedain, the men of Dol Amroth, the men of Khand, the men of Umbar (now liberated from the corsairs who had ruled since shortly after the fall of Númenor IIRC), Easterlings from Rhûn and further East, and the men of Breeland. So there would be a lot of room for riveting intrigues, alliances and undoubtedly further conflicts as new borders are delineated, new realms established and long-forsaken regions repopulated. Though unfortunately it seems that Tolkien wasn't too fond of political intriguesm I believe he specifically mentioned them as a reason to abandon the inchoate sequel 😅 Plus several Elven kingdoms remained in Middle-Earth for quite some time into the Fourth Age, such as Lothlórien, Dorwinion, the Grey Havens, and Kirkwood/Greenwood. Plus there's the Dwarves at the Iron Hills, the Grey Mountains, Erebor and the reborn Khazad-Dûm, among others. Then there's still the Ents (who I believe _did_ find the Entwives after all💙), the Eagles, the Beornings, the Hobbits of the Shire and Breeland, and of course the perennial perplexing enigma that is Tom Bombadil and his wife. There were/are still many potential candidates for a new antagonist(s), Tolkien never explicitly elaborated on the fate of Morgoth's myriad abominations, and the fact that a Balrog was still alive in Moria and Shelob even existed at all suggests to me that many Balrogs, Spiders and other "demons" reside in the vestigial halls and corridors of Morgoth's dungeons. I like to think that there's also still other Balrogs, Cave Trolls, and other malevolent disciples of Morgoth lurking amongst the buried and overgrown ruins of his cavernous, labyrinthine fortresses at Utumno and Angband, doubtlessly followed by a frenzied throng of goblins or orcs, who IMO still linger in substantial numbers in the "deep places or the world". So the primary antagonist needn't be restricted to a Man, there were lots of potential candidates - but I can see how defeating a "mere servant" of Morgoth might seem anti-climactic, as opposed to essentially his right-hand man in Sauron, but I dunno, I reckon there _would_ be other corrupted Maiar equal to or even more powerful than Sauron hiding in the deepest dungeons of Utumno and elsewhere, there could even potentially be more dragons out there (that's my headcanon anyway 😅). Oh, and there's the Blue wizards, they could have been an interesting foundation for a sequel. We NEED to know what happened to them! My headcanon is that they split up, with one going north east to the shores of the inland sea of Rhûn, while the other went south east towards the realms east of Mordor; they each protected an individual realm from Sauron's influence, as Gandalf did, but similarly to Gandalf they lacked the time and manpower to "cast their net" any wider, thus they decided to knuckle down and aid the defense of these realms were besieged by Sauron's armies. I like to think they remained in Middle-Earth for many generations (along with Radagast the Brown), but ultimately returned to the Undying Lands. It's a shame Tolkien never went ahead with it, but I can appreciate his rationale for discarding it. He wasn't really interested in creating a "franchise" per se, at least not in the modern sense of the term. And I suppose that with the Elves' continual departures to Aman, the prospect of writing more stories in this universe seemed saddening or unfulfilling to him, since it's clear from his letters and from the texts themselves that the Elves held a very special place in his heart, alongside Tom and Goldberry and Beren and Luthien who both represent Tolkien and his wife Edith (in fact I believe their gravestones are engraved with "Beren" and "Luthien", which is just beautiful, just absolutely beautiful). May they rest in eternal peace 🙏🏻💙 May💙
I would have preferred more prequels than sequels. The end of Sauron isn't exactly final, as there are balrogs and dragons and evil spirits and men not entirely accounted for... but it's an end of great evil power. That the stories end there before the fourth age is good.
Yea they need movie prequels that lead up to the hobbit or lord of the rings where its set in the 1st and 2nd ages and when Morgoth was tryna take over middle earth, it would probably take like 15 long movies to tell all those stories written by Tolkien.
The final chapter of ROTK book is so powerful and emotional and that shall always be the ending. I am pleased he had the foresight to not write further and ultimately subtract from that ending.
In many ways, Tolkien was writing a mythical history for England, a British tale of lore that he felt was lacking. So the sequel to the LOTR is... now, really. We're living in "The Age of Men". And we all see what we've done with the place.
Funny enough, I'm not English and after I finished reading his books, especially The Silmarillion, I felt like what he wrote was part of my heritage too. I hope he knew what he wrote was more than a mythical history of England.
Not only what we are doing to earth but much more. Like men losing their testosterone, more men becoming sterile etc. Big signs of comfort and degeneracy
"The New Shadow" is so compelling for what it is. The short story/moody piece we are given is such a potent reminder of our grim nature. I find I think about it more often than I'd like to these days. It might not be finished or an epic sequel, but I still value it for what it is - and like many in the comments below I think it's for the better that Tolkien didn't complete it.
I find it interesting that Tolkien embarked on this kind of sequel at all, since, as he seemed to recognize, it would be exclusively human-centric, when the whole rest of the Legendarium is about the tendency of the Elves to weariness and how they interact with Men. Eliminating the Elves entirely creates a story very disconnected from the rest. Nevertheless, I do want to see how this might have turned out.
It was still during the era where other races roamed middle earth, but with increased scarcity. Although almost all the elves were gone, the dwarves actually recovered several of their old holdings and returned to a level of prominence they had not enjoyed in living memory (Gimli even founded a dwarven colony in the Glittering Caves behind the Hornburg and his people rebuilt the walls of Helm's Deep far stronger than ever). Tolkien also notes in some of these writings that the surviving orcs had gathered into their own societies and were relatively peaceful without the influence of sauron, but they faced discrimination and fear from the other races for many generations after.
Not all of the elves would have left. Numbers of them had been sailing West for millenia, which is why their numbers in Middle Earth were so diminished but there's no indication that they all suddenly left after the fall of Sauron.
@@Codex7777 IIRC Tolkien mentioned in a few places that the remaining elven communities, even Rivendale dwindled rapidly, and within century was basically empty.
I, unlike most Middle Earth fans, completely disagree with the idea that the story and history of evil in Middle Earth would not have made for a very interesting continuation (I am saying this after having heard what the video said so please pay attention). Christopher or any other Tolkien would have done well had they wanted to keep writing more on Middle Earth and we would have loved it if, they had visions and ideas of how amazing it could have been done. I know how it could have been done, but it's obvious Tolkien didn't want to think deeper on the possibilities and the wonderful dynamics and paths that were open to more Middle Earth life, color, adventure and horror. I do hate seeing how everyone MUST follow along and never think outside that narrow tunnel. You all give up so easily. The Silmarillion, TLOTR, The Hobbit and the rest of Tolkien's fantasy writings are my favorite readings, btw.
You have just described exactly what the "Alien" franchise ruined. For decades there were countless message boards and fans who came together to theorize on the unexplained lore: the jockeys, where the aliens came from, etc. etc. But the making of Prometheus and the sequels butchered the mystique. Suddenly and forever more, the conversation was dead. There was no room left for speculation and theory crafting. Be glad some things were left open to your imagination. It's a blessing
The arc is perfect as it stands, beginning with the Great Music and ending with Merry, Pippin and Sam listening to its remaining echoes as they stand by the ocean. Tolkien was wise to stop there.
I 100% agree with your take on Tolkien’s wisdom in practicing restraint. While I yearn for more tales of Middle Earth to dive into, adding more to a perfectly crafted and completed story often cheapens the original effort. Your use of Star Wars was a perfect example. Even the images from Star Wars that you highlighted to make your point were perfect. Thank you for making this video!
@@poppag8281Felt like they didn’t think things through the fullest. All they did do a rehash of the og trilogy be a sequel needed a payoff of the heroes victories.
I always saw the end of LOTR as a transition into OUR timeline and history. No more fantasy and magic, just the regular history of men with all the issues we know about our past. War, politics, famine, industrialization, etc. In other words, if you wanted to get an idea at what a world after LOTR would look like, you just had to pick up a history book.
@@yosafatvalentinus3440 It's not just dwarves and hobbits. I am sure, I ran into some Orcs in my day. And we all know that the internet is full of trolls.
Most people think as you do because they fail to grasp possibilities, vision and dynamics that still existed in Middle Earth. You don't disconnect Tolkien from the world of Middle Earth. A write creates the world it wrote about, but everything in it still lives on. There are far, far too many things Middle Earth can still provide in an amazing fantasy setting.
Great summary. I feel like what comes after, is like much of the writing of recent years: dystopian, gritty, dark and depressing truths about human nature. While that can be useful, we have enough of that in the real world, so it's always left me cold. Maybe it's escapism, but I'd rather be inspired and leave with hope, not be tempted into despair. The primary world has plenty of that. I'm glad that Tolkien resisted what many modern writers have not.
I agree, but as a world-view type of thing: I always like to remember that bad news always travel farther than the good ones. I love escapism, but there is no reason to lose hope in the real world. Sam's famous speech in Osgiliath applies to the real world as well and we don't even have immortal beings of pure evil. It's telling that Tolkien saw that coming as well - after evil was defeated in the great war, a long time of prosperity and peace came about, but everything good just seems normal when there is nothing bad to compare it to.
@@folksurvival i dont know where you got that from. It's not what happened in Tolkien's world and it's certainly not what happened in the real one either
@@folksurvival hey melancholy can be just as beautiful as euphoria so I don't want to step on your journey there, but last time I checked the fascists lost the war and I might be stepping into a hornets nest here but the US got the bloody nose they were bound to get from meddling in other nations affairs. Everything since then can scarcely be called a war, since it is little more than international bullying. I would agree that the current state of society looks a bit grim, but of course your own problems always look bigger than those of others or the past.
I'm very much a lover of uplifting, happy endings to stories. I think LotR ended perfectly. Like someone else said earlier, it is similar to Game of Thrones in many ways. I like GoT, but I also find it sometimes rather too dark and depressing. This sequel would have likely done the same. I have no doubt it would have been masterfully written and probably would have ended on a good note. But, I don't think I would have enjoyed the read. So I'm glad that this never got written.
That reminds me of reading the Witcher series. The books are more 'realistic' than LOTR in the sense of politics and war but they really make you feel crappy reading them sometimes. Especially after reading actual accounts of Easter Europe during WWII.
Tough call. It was all so good a tale that, when it was over, there was emptiness along with the gladness of victory. But peace brings boredom, and that begats evil.
You have a poet's heart, your closing comments were very moving and true. And extra thumbs up for referencing the Last Jedi and the dismantling of Luke Skywalkwer therein.
Enjoyed that reference to the Star Wars sequel trilogy at the end. Not that a sequel trilogy never could have worked, but it was a mistake to make the new big bad, the First Order, just a carbon copy of the Empire. Like Tolkien said, that's just kind of depressing and the overthrow of the same big bad isn't really worth telling. If they had tried something completely different, I would have been on board. But no.
I have SO MANY thoughts on Star Wars. They had some great, compelling characters in Force Awakens that they totally squandered (esp Finn). They totally botched integrating the OT characters. Their integration served little purpose but to give their characters some of the most depressing ends possible. They would’ve been far better off having the OT characters be primary characters or setting the whole thing centuries later.
@@NerdoftheRings Imagine after all Aragorn went through, he abandons his kingdom to live in exile as a depressed hermit because of a mistake he made that contradicts his established character. This is what Luke is like in TLJ, and it's the most depressing outcome for this hopeful and optimistic character. He should never have considered trying to kill Ben Solo in his sleep, considering his arc in the OT is trying to bring Anakin back, no matter the cost. Let alone trying to kill Ben he should never have just abandoned the galaxy and his friends to suffer another Sith controlled fascist regime. Even though the sequel would be set years after Aragorn's death, it still runs the issue of making the ending of the LOTR meaningless almost, like what happened with the Star Wars OT, so it seems wise for Tolkien to stop after that realisation. Although I would have liked (good) Star Wars sequels.
@@NerdoftheRings Cobra Kai is a good example of how to continue the story of the original main characters decades later, and how to introduce new characters without ruining the original characters. It can be done, you just have to have respect for the original story and the original characters. You must continue their story forward from where it was left, not push it all back to the original starting point.
Yeah that was some subtle but powerful shade he threw at Disney... From my point of view the main problem wasn't Luke as a hermit, or even him trying to kill his own nephew for the stupidest reasons. No, they simply went for the quick buck and the only thing they do : a bloody reboot with almost no continuity. Written with their feet... 🤬
The worst crime was to declare the whole extended universe culture non-canon. Star Wars was apparently unquie in that way that it was the fans who drove the story outside the movie triolgy, and what was considered canon was mostly by popular vote.
I'm not going to lie, I would have absolutely loved this sequel. I know people think that it potentially could have fallen into the trap of other sequels, as in, never living up to LOTR, but I genuinely believe that Tolkien would be incapable of not turning this into a perfect masterpiece, as with all his other works.
@@cq7t agreed! I understand totally that Lord of the Rings is a beautiful end to our knowing of Middle Earth, but I feel we are left with the impression that darkness can arise at anytime if evil is left unchecked and I always assumed that many more great wars occured after the War of the Ring anyway
I agree. In a way it would have made Middle Earth feel like perhaps it actually existed a few thousand years ago. That's silly, obviously, but to tell a post-fantasy story where it's mostly humans (no longer other fantastical creatures) dealing with the rise of evil mischief whenever things get too easy, well we can very much relate to that. It almost connects the fantasy to reality.
I actually like this. It speaks true of what we've seen throughout our history. When there's an age of complacency and we don't stress on the record of struggle that got us to that point, there's misrule, anarchy, distrust, arrogance among the youth and conniving scheming heads who take advantage of this to foment the seeds of dissent and chaos.
There has to be a point in any franchise where the author decides that this is a good place to end it. When the tale is done and you’ve reached the climax, and there’s no more mileage out of it. Just quite while you’re ahead. Tolkien was right to not make a sequel to return of the king.
Exactly or you end up no longer having the passion for the world or story because you focus in trying to make something as impressive yet fail to capture what you once did. This is the reason George RR Martin wrote himself into a corner and can't finish his work it's the same reason jk Rowling's newer stories make no sense in the timeline or lore of her own world. If you make a world so magical and intriguing that people love then make a lore for it whether that be in your story or a separate piece, you need to know when to end it. Once the passion goes, you've run out of ideas. If you can't read your own work and get excited at ideas and possibilities you have pushed it too far. It's far better to end it even with more ideas than to run out of ideas and be left reaching for something.
True artists know when to end their painting, their symphony, their story, or any other creation. They know when "less is more". Most of the "more" in creative pursuits today are driven purely by the prospect of making more money from them.
From about 10:15 to 11:40, Tolkien's comments about humanity prove wiser than even he could have guessed. Revelations of his thoughts like these further increase my amazement at his genius. Thank you "Nerd" for bringing these things to the rest of us.
@@Green-cactus. it's not just a perhaps, Tolkien treated LotR as a translation of an ancient tome called the Red Book of Westmarch. It's meant to be a historical myth / legend
@@OtepRalloma The "Red Book of Westmarch" was written by Tolkien. It was Bilbo's journal or the one he was working on and then later Frodo writes in it too. Becca Tarnas talks about the red book of both Tolkien and Carl Jung in a video. This is the video ua-cam.com/video/l6oh14vfhlI/v-deo.html
@@AwakeningWings I know Tolkien wrote it, because the Red Book IS the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. He was pretending it's a real historical book that he translated, which I think is hella neat
@@OtepRalloma Oh okay, I had a feeling you already knew about it. But not everyone knows about this stuff. That is true, he did use it in that way. In a way it's like Tolkien's journal; a lot like Carl Jung's Red Book.
He creates myths and legends, cultures and races, religions and politics, languages and accents, creation to end he tells the tales of love and hate and darkness and light, hope and loss and everything in between. The symbolism, concepts and ideas he plays with, the abstracts and philosophy, the metaphors and way of describing it like a poem , how he slowly reveals the world in greater detail than any historic document, about the people, their feelings, their thoughts, about the interactions and bonds. How the world he created changed and grew is just beautiful.
The story as you presented it seems like it would’ve been quite a page turner! Your voice acting was excellent and the mysteries being hinted at were enticing. I would have liked to have had the full story. Not everything Tolkien wrote necessarily had to be some grand king epic! I wish he would have done this as a one off story.
I feel very much that Tolkien understood a very hard truth in the hearts of men and that this book wouldn't have been relevant when it was written but is very relevant today. It's a good thing to not push past the ending of the Lord of the Rings as a story, it is really well told and brings up something withing my spirit that I always need to hear. Not sure if I would have wanted to read the sequel, but I feel there is a story that needs to be heard in its harsh reality. Thanks for your work in sharing this material. It means a lot to me today.
The New Shadow - about evil returning in the Fourth Age, but found it both repulsive and depressing. He wrote it for some 13 pages, but quit after 14 pages.
Oh, goodness! This is exactly what I needed for my fanfiction. To take this kind of "doom and gloom" as the final battle type trope, but instead of wreck and ruin, it's the end/beginning of time with Eru and the Valar walking on Arda and being with her people, all of whom are now eternal beings.
Very intriguing. I obviously want more content like the rest of us however, all of the content we have is typically from the perspective of a being in middle-earth. Who would be “telling us” the story of the 4th age, or would it be a first person experience? The Valar themselves haven’t seen what happens after, in their initial vision of the Music. As stated in early pages of the Silmarillion, “Some have said that the vision ceased ere the fulfillment of the Dominion of Men and the fading of the Firstborn; wherefore, though the Music is over all, the Valar have not seen as with the sight the Later Ages or the ending of the World.”
I get that the original ending was very satisfying for nearly all fans of LOTR, but this honestly sounds like a very mature and compelling story to tell. I would be very interested in an adult story that has no more monsters and dark lords left to defeat, but only the evil left in men. The parts that Tolkien started with sound like a very logical beginning for the story he wanted to tell in the century after Aragorn. If done right, it could've been a pretty cool story. Oh well, I trust Tolkein's judgment to leave it be.
If the Silmarillion had been published by then,… Tolkien may have decided to take a different direction with additional stories. I just have this burning feeling that Tolkien always planned for the return of Morgoth.
then Men could've been the ones to defeat him this time, as Morgoth comes back to a world bereft of darkness, but also stuck in it's lack of conflict. Thus he'd initially find man easy to corrupt and turn against himself. But once good people rose up to face him, the fight would begin and soon, without Elves or maybe even the Valar, Men, and probably Dwarves too, would triumph over Morgoth and whatever nasties he summoned from the deep places of the world (perhaps another Balrog that had been slumbering like Durin's Bane but was never discovered?)
@@enderman_of_d00m24 You mean repeat the same thing again. Morgoth was taken out from arda in the end of first age, so im not sure can he even be able to return back.
@@jout738 in the canonically uncertain Dagor Dagorath, at the end of ages, the now separated from Arda - Valinor, the Valars and all the inhabitants of Valinor begins to decay with Ea after holding it back for so long, so much so that it made the guards of the gates to the timeless void "sleepeth" while Morgoth slowly regained his power from his essence in Arda and the decay of Ea. That's how he escaped the timeless void according to Dagor Dagorath.
@@enderman_of_d00m24 so, basically Dagor Dagorath? because Morgoth resurrecting evil entities, the final war, battles against the valars, and Morgoth's death by Turin Turambar (a man), fits your description, and it also mentions the return of the Elves and Dwarves to Arda
Morgoth was very much doomed to return one final time thanks in part that he became nigh inseparable from Arda, while the decay of the world will eventually bite the Valars sooner or later, but whether it'll be like Tolkien's uncertain Dagor Dagorath or different is uncertain
I have much enjoyed your expositions and commentary on J.R.R. Tolkiens works, including this one. I agree that he indeed chose wisely to leave his Magnus Opus finished as it was. I would like to add however that there is a very interesting counterpoint that is reflected in the work you are referring to in this commentary. Carl Jung the famous Swiss psychologist who was a contemporary of Professor Tolkien has stated that the winners of a conflict take on the shadow of those whom they defeat. If this is understood consciously it can be managed in a constructive manner. However, if this shadow remains in the unconscious it will manifest in the negative. If you look at the long and innumerable wars that the elves fought against Morgoth (and Sauron) and the victories they achieved without succumbing to the shadow incurred by those victories it may have been because of their age and experience that they were consciously able to recognize the shadow that they had assumed and bend it towards the positive by ownership and recognition. I think this can be demonstrated by both Gandalf and Galadriel's reaction to what accepting the power of the One Ring would do to them. In other words, they were very conscious of their own potential for evil, unlike Saruman.
Man, they way you read that was amazing...I was so into it...making me want to know so much more. I love the ending of LOTR as it is and how Tolkien decided not to continue but as a Tolkien fan we can all agree if he would have continued...well, we would love it!
This sounds eerily similar to what is occurring in our own world at this very moment!! The lessons of before are forgotten and now the young cheer for the removal of their own freedoms and wish to instill the very evils an entire generation spent fighting against!!
@@francescomercanti7500 no I refer to Brexit and similar situations when nations that had it good for a long time decide to ruin their country because they grew bored and complacent to new dangerous politics because they took prosperity and peace for granted! these are usually people born into prosperity, wealth, and peace who never had to fight for any of it... they are usually the ones that will destroy everything that their fathers gave their life for
@@Berndr My bad, I was referring to the first comment though. Also didn't the youth vote help the Remain campaign? I'm pretty sure that young people votes overwhemingly to Remain. It's actually older who voted to leave. The reason I give is that young people have a more open mind to diversity and globalism whereas older generations are nostalgic of times of isolationism and soft(not Fascist) nationalism and patriotism
I can't express how much I agree with you... and the exemple of Star Wars at the end was just perfect. I hope the same never happens with LOTR, and I would be lying if I said I'm not worried about the Amazon series. It won't have the same impact as the Sequels did for Star Wars, but it would still hurt to see the same treatment being given to my favorite franchise.
It is the most expensive TV show ever so I hope they are careful with it or else it will be the biggest disaster in the history of TV (I think they are also in a 5 season contract with the Tolkien estate so that is another reason for them not to mess it up).
I think it was a wise choide to have the show take place in the Second Age, where there is a whole lot more room to make, shall we say, "smaller" stories. We're talking about a span of time almost 3500 years long, with good guys, bad guys, sorcerers, Elves, Dwarves, Men, Numenoreans, Orcs, etc. all existing and interacting in the same realm, and Tolkien himself only ever explored very little of it. I'm up for a well told tale. It may just be elevated fan fiction, but I'm up for exploring places that Tolkien only briefly described, like Lindon or Harad.
We all know there is going to be some useless ‘representation’ that won’t add anything to the overarching story. Before I get slaughtered for this, what I mean is when they add that stuff in for the sake of having it. Not to help drive the story or plot. Like Cowboy Bebop Netflix mode, Faye Valentine having a full on lesbian sex experience. For one I don’t remember her being lesbian in the original, and it literally didn’t add to the story.
I always thought that the concentration of evil in purely malevolent beings in fantasy was unrealistic, because there is always the struggles in humans themselves. But then again, it's fantasy, you can come up with anything. But if there is always a greater evil force after one has been overcome, it really is depressing. So I guess it's the right choice of Tolkien not to have continued with this sequel. Even though I find it fascinating to think that this sequel might be his thoughts about how the second world war would be remembered after everyone who experienced it had died.
Two thoughts: 1: this excerpt really felt like game of thrones to me, especially the murky level of intrigue you get in storm of swords. 2: I think it would be been thrilling to have this plot intermingled with maybe a dragon, or dragon cult or something. We never really know if Smaug is the last great dragon, and we never get a long look at the north or south of middle earth. Perhaps there is room for growth with a political tale mixed with a dragon adventure? Thanks, great video.
The name of the world is Arda, middle earth is middle earth because it is on the middle. Kinda like south america and north america in the continental scale.
Also a hundred years could have changed a lot maybe the Kingdom of Man is now an Early Modern society, with their Late Medieval Period being the War of the Ring to make it different from the rest of the series and act as its own thing with plots, intregue and a Human Civil War. A Kingdom with Pike and Shot but still hints of the Medieval days like Orders would be interesting, as well as the dying Fantastical elements like Dwarves and even Orcs maybe even twist it a bit where some Orcs are grey or even good helping the heroes against the rebellion. (Basically like Warhammers Empire but its England in the Early Modern Period and not the Holy Roman Empire) But like Tolkine said its just not LOTR.
It’s so incredible how well Tolkien understands history and how much it repeats because the young generations don’t know about the horrors of the past. Having young teenagers worshiping orcs and Sauron would be the equivalent of young people praising the Nazi or Communism in the modern day, which is pretty freaking accurate.
@@tominiowa2513 I don’t think Neo Liberalism or “New Liberalism” praises communism since they strongly support free markets. People supporting communism nowadays are mostly part of the Democratic Socialist of America or simply a bunch of delusional tankies blind to the atrocities caused by communism
@@darthxandrum2986 Neo-Liberalism is letting banks and corporations run roughshod over everything in cooperation with government - similar to fascism. The founders of Neo-Conservatism were followers of Trotsky in their younger days, and have carried over much of the Bolshevik philosophy (the so-called communist countries practiced Bolshevism and not communism).
@@tominiowa2513 Tom in Iowa. I grew up in a communist country and left it over 13 years ago. Communism is real and it’s horrible. Trying to deny it and using the term “‘neoliberalism” deliberately to name things you don’t like is pretty much the point of Tolkien saying how the young generation forgets about the horrors of the past. Neo-liberalism is not the one letting banks and coorporations do whatever they want, it’s “coorporatism”. Fascism and Neo-Liberalism have nothing in common. But yeah. Nowadays left leaning kids just name anything they don’t like “fascism” or “neoliberalism”, which truly is an insult to those who really suffered from fascism or communism.
@@darthxandrum2986 You may have grown up in a country that labeled itself "communist", but its real political philosophy was that of the Bolshevism of Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, etc., and not the workers controlling the means of production as Marx suggested. Similarly, neo-liberalism has nothing to do with traditional liberal values. The three great destructive "ism's" of the 20th Century were all funded in their infancy by the same set of City of London/Wall Street bankers. Ever hear of "divide and conquer"?
Going against the grain here but I really wish he had written the New Shadow. It doesn't need to be a direct sequel. It could be an entirely self-contained story with a smaller scale than Lord of the Rings. Plus, it could have been written as an affirmation of his worldview. Pity he chose to dismiss the idea. I think it would have been amazing to see Tolkien's take on a thriller.
Thanks for sharing this! It definitely seems to predict the future for the culture of humanity in a way. I think Tolkien was very wise in how he wrote his stories, and even though it was nice to hear more work from him, I understand why he stopped. Also had he lived longer, I wonder if he would have written anything else? We'll never know I suppose, but I'm thankful he wrote the books that he did.
I think Tolkien was warning us about something too many symbols coincide with our own world and his not to mention that our Tolkien has been trough a lot in his lifetime he probably wondered at one point why his buddies died in the Trench with him and he probably wondered about the Germans going trough exactly the same on the other side. If you think about all of it , his story makes sense and punches deep no matter how many decades we go at it... If nothing we have from Tolkien something to keep to heart till the end of our days Gandalf the White: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it.
"boredom of men with the good" Oh my God... He knew humans just too well. That is something I will never understand. I value peace and quite so much, yet so many people are constantly looking for thrill and danger for no reason.
People, men especially feel the need to be constantly fighting something or someone. It gives those kinds of people a measure of purpose in an existence that would otherwise be quite leisurely. Perhaps it’s evolution, perhaps it’s by design or perhaps it’s by corruption. However I noticed the same thing Tolkien noticed. Men without demons of their own to slay will summon new ones over enjoying the fruits of their father’s victories. My theory is that it comes from a kind of shame or guilt. Questions like “why should I get to enjoy my life when my father’s, father’s bled and died for their’s?” or “what kind of man am I if I cannot be greater than those who came before me?” flood the mind. Soon enough the shame of peace becomes too much to bear.
@@My10thAccount It is very much possible. Funnily enough I never had any such thoughts or needs. I do not suffer from existencial crisis or need for adventure and I am a man. I think it has alot to do with the way my parents brought me up. They always explained to me the reality so I do not fall victim to temptations of bad things. I love my life where I do not have to fight anybody.
It’s amazing how he told this story, as it relates to us today. None remember the fights and struggles for freedom, and over time the young start wanting and demanding the evil rule their parents and grandparents fought so hard to defeat.
Depends which country your elders are from and which side they fought on. Many people's grandparents or great grandparents fought hard on the side of evil to defeat the good, and their contribution helped their side to win. Unfortunately most were heavily brainwashed and pressured and so they didn't really know it at the time. Now we have all had to live in the wreckage for all these decades since.
Wow.. that Reading of the Sequel, had me Sucked in instantly. If only JRR could have lived to complete it..! I have loved LOTR from hearing the Hobbit, read to me at about 8yrs Old. ( it started me Reading for Pleasure, not as a Chore.) And have always wanted more..!! Aged now 66 if it were Released tomorrow. I would fall upon it, akin to a Junkie. Great Story, Great Video and have Subscribed..! Cheers kim in Oz. 😎
The memory of evil facing the ignorance of those who have never known it. Tolkien captured in his work the eternal struggle of human nature with its inner evil. When we go without knowing evil and struggle for a long time, we forget the suffering and hardship, we long for conflict, confrontation. My questions are why can't we be contempt in peace? Why do we conflict to evolve? Why must we always forget...?
Because everyone after generation is reminded of previous ones glory so they seek it as well to prove themselves and then you have those who hate it as well, that's how everything starts like today as well.
I feel like this was supposed to be the beginning of the Battle of all battles . Considering that after the war of the ring there wasn't much evil left , leads me to believe that "New shadow " refers to the return of Melkor.
Tolkien thought to middle earth as *our* earth and to his legendarium as a new mytology enriching English literature. He even mentioned in a letter that we currently live in the 7th age and that the fall of Sauron happened somewhere around 6000 BC. So no, the return of Melkor (i.e. the Apocalypse) is supposed to be in an indefinitly far future.
Isn’t melkor already in everything? I feel like without the big bad to unite them all, humans and others would just turn on each other. He doesn’t need to be physically there for the world to be fucked up
@@indio4-215 it is mentioned in the recent book "nature of middle earth", which reports some previously unpublished comments by JRRT, including one comment mentioning that "we are now at approximately year 1970 of the seventh age". This topic has been also discussed in a recent video by a UA-cam creator (check "the tolkien lore" channel).
Hey, you know what you should do next for the series? Tolkien's journey. I think it would be wonderful this way so many more of the newer fans will get to know who the creator of our favorite world is. Much love, Cam.
I second that. The movie we have of Tolkien's life doesn't take a lot of his life into account, especially his deep religious rootedness in Christianity
Hey Nerd. With so many Tolkien channels suddenly popping up out of nowhere, just wanted to say thanks, for your genuine love of Tolkien and the lore of Middle Earth.
I legit applauded at the end of this video, so good. The last Jedi reference was perfect as well. Love you videos, been I’ve binging them since i discovered your channel 4 days ago lol
@@springpondnc They serve three dark lords; greed, lack of empathy and hunger for power. And these have sub-cults, the best known recent one being the Cult of Trump.
I'm sure if Tolkien had continued the story we would've heard more about the lands to the east and south and further exploring what happened to the blue wizards. It would be an interesting addition to the story if the blue wizards became masters of their own and what such consequences would be for the rest of the peoples of Middle earth. Makes you wonder...
@@blobloblob1627 not really, the reason why he canned the sequel was less about the Universe was expanding but because the story was becoming way too dark for LOTR, imagine if LOTR got a sequel in the same vain as Warhammer or Game of Thrones where the High Fantasy element is dying out, people would at best just like it but its not what LOTR as a series is suppose to be.
Love that he wrote about the ending and an afterwards. Tolkien is The Godfather of not only fantasy but any written book in the 20th century. His love for languages and history really shows in his writings I hope they do him justice on the new Amazon show but I doubt it.
While a sequel can enhance a story, it is certainly true they can also lessen a story if done improperly. I think Tolkien could have indeed done a fantastic continuation of Lord of the Rings and the morals it discussed are most assuredly relevant, but him not being invested in the story is understandable and I can respect his restraint of wanting to keep the story where it was. Some things just don’t need sequels even if the universe it has is big and deep. Though I won’t lie, I still enjoyed the Star Wars sequels.
A Pike and Shot version of the Reunited Kingdom (with Pikemen, firearms and Gendarme like Gondorian Horsemen and Footment with Rohan updating their look to more of a Turco-Mongolo-Anglo-Saxon look and Arnor having the older Middle Earth look to contrast Godor and Rohan would be a sight.) set in an English Civil War Senario with some intervention of the dying Mythical elements being added in (maybe there is tension between the Dwarves, Arnor and the more developed Eastern Realms one thinking its far too industrial and losing its way by trying to become Isenguard and the other far too backwards clinging to the older ways of the long gone Elves, maybe tne Easterlings can intervine on the side of both the Kingdom and the Rebels doing some political manuvering, Orcs might be more grey in this world as Tolkien did want to make them less Evil) would be awesome but I can see why Tolkien canned it by page 13.
This is more than just a review, it's a deep philosophical look into the true Spirit of life. Truly marvelous and inspiring that such words come from the mouth of a man. Perhaps there is hope for human kind after all. Thank you I am moved.
In every interview I have seen or read with Tolkien, he was clear that what he did was mythology, not allegory. Mythology is about what is within, allegory is about what is without. If he pursued a fourth age and new darkness, he would have made the switch to allegory and commentary on the objective world rather than the life course of the internal world. I have no doubt that there is a reason Tolkien was a contemporary of Jung. The ages of Tolkien's legendarium overlay with the ages of a single human lifetime and the internal battles, victories and defeats, that a person will experience if they make it to old age. I believe that is a perspective that should always be in the back of one's mind with engaging with Tolkien's work.
I would have loved to read The New Shadow. I agreed with the idea it was better that he had not written a sequel, but after hearing part of it here, I want to hear more !!
God bless Tolkien and truth he wrote! It is truly amazing how much one can learn from "just a story". In my mind he took a grasp at the divine and and had more than a handful to share with this world. A true gift.
My opinion on this is torn, a part of me would want to read a full sequel because like Tolkien I to believe the rise of chaos is inevitable after a sustained period of order. The thing is Sauron was portrayed as the ultimate evil, the next evil would of been worse. Evil festers and plots in secrecy (think of the secret societies) and what came out of that would have revealed itself with a vengeance and from hearing these excerpts it seems men were not prepared to face whatever was coming. It isn't surprising he found this line of thought depressing, the process of writing the sequel would not have been a comfortable one especially if he hadn't worked out how men would have conquered that darkness.
It is pretty painful to think that no additional lore, history, or new stories from this work will ever bless us. There's always much to learn for most of us...but man, it's hard to digest sometimes when you realize you've reached the end of the journey.
I think an unpublished short but completed novel would've been really compelling and to me seems like Saelon would've had a redemption arc and Borlas's son the mysterious "Herumor". The cyclical nature of good and evil fits well in a fantasy setting and remnants of magical elements from the Third Age could still be found presumably (orcs, wargs and trolls scattered few and far in between, ruins of Mordor, Minis Morgul and Dol Guldor, giant spiders of and Elves of Mirkwood, Smaugs massive skeleton under the Long Lake and the Dwarves of Erebor, etc) within merely a century after Sauron's deafest.
Just finished listening to your podcast about Rhun. So fascinating! All your podcasts are! Makes me want to go and catch up on all the extra Tolkien writings. When it comes to a sequel, just feels like there is so much potential. If this was a different literary family, some of the descendants might have picked up the pen (ala Tony Hillerman’s daughter continuing her fathers mystery series. And many other examples.) I think Christopher would have been too exhausted, especially with all his efforts in compiling his fathers works. Nor do I imagine he would have even considered the possibility. And have a feeling that even the youngest Tolkien descendants would be hesitant in forging a continuation of any of JRR Tolkiens work. Too much pressure and expectation I would imagine. And it would probably feel daunting to connect and make a harmonious continuation of those story threads started by JRR Tolkien. Pressure to keep things the same and pressure to change and expand. But after hearing about Rhun and another video you did, which mentioned the Southron’s coming under the fealty of Gondor, leaves so many intriguing possibilities! “ Of course I kind of understand why Tolkien preferred to leave his story unfinished. Though his words about satiety with peace are chilling. It seems from this tale many were already forgetting the last conflict with Sauron. As always thank you for such interesting and well summarized videos! Love it!
Beautiful video! Extraordinary! Thank you. I couldn't agree more, life is accepting things the way they are and learning to let things go. Tolkien knew this, he had something that nowadays is almost extinct, and that is principles.
Would you have preferred Tolkien written a full LOTR sequel? Or are you glad he decided against it?
As a Rome: Total War fan, I will heartily recommend that you check a mod for the game called The Fourth Age: Dominion of Men. It is the final release of a modification that is fully based in The New Shadow. In it, with lore always in mind and trying to keep as true as possible to Tolkien´s vision, the creators personify Herumor, develop the cult as both a political and religious entity, and try to forecast what would have happened from Aragorn´s death until the the year 350 of the Fourth Age. It is at that moment that the player finally is allowed to participate in the game.
I'm all for it! Any new Tolkien content is exciting. There are so many open ends and potential for more content in the Tolkien universe. Still I would prefer more detailed stories from the First or Second ages if I had to choose
It’s hard to say no to more Tolkien content.
if someone writes the dagor dagorath writes anywhere close to tolkien then why not because tolkien didn't write it i wish he had
As much as I long to hear more, at the same time, his having left this unfinished allows there to be a "more" to long for. I think, in the whole, I"m glad he didn't complete it. He had good, sound, reasons and we ourselves can well imagine potential outcomes and continuations with the threads he did begin.
In my opinion, the greatest aspect to Tolkien is that he writes and speaks of Middle Earth like a historian, not a novelist. He presents FACTS about the world he created, not just ideas and narratives. It adds a whole other dimension to the experience of those who choose to read and learn.
Exactly
Yeah he says things like he discovered or he ponders about what happened to the Ent Wives, he speaks about it like he's an observer, which makes me able to imagine that it really exists somewhere
Tolkien's writing isn't artifical history, it's artifical mythology.
@@Apfelmelonenmann conceptually they are the same thing
Some use magic to tell a good story and some tell good stories about a magical world
I guess this unwritten sequel would show that evil is not something to defeat, it is something to resist and battle against whenever it springs forth.
I think not.
As everyone knows,Tolkien was a true Catholic and the doctrine of this religion is intimately embedded in all of his work. And this doctrine says that evil needs to be fought and defeated.
And not just supported or tolerated for mere convenience.
Absolutely not.
That would be smarter than mere religious doctrine, but you can’t have everything I guess.
The original commenter is correct. Look into the “circle of light” that was a large inspiration for Tolkien’s perspective on fighting evil
What is so bad with evil anyway. Typically its more epic and badass. Because of what Morgoth did. He made the middle-earth more intresting place as whole, when without Melkor influence on arda. The world would be booring place with no conflict, when its just booring peace forever.
This reminds me of a great quote from Neil Gaiman's Sandman. For those who haven't read it, Bette is a minor character who likes to create stories about the people she knows: "All Bette's stories have happy endings. That's because she knows where to stop. She's realized the real problem with stories-if you keep them going long enough, they always end in death.”
I was thinking of this exact same thing after watching this video
What bad with sad ending. It makes it more engaging realzing through the story why this person ended up like that. Happy stories with nice ending with peace are just focking booring, when there are thousands of them, so I dont really mind sad or devastating ending, when it can also tell through the story why this person ended up like this.
@@jout738 True - but Gaiman wasn't presenting Bette's philosophy as right. She's a naive character who doesn't want to deal with pain, but Gaiman makes it very clear that pain and death are natural parts of life. Tolkien felt the same. I only quoted the line about Bette because I think "Well, I'm back" at the end of The Return of the King was the perfect place to end LotR. I think he was right to stop work on The Return of the Shadow.
@@jout738 It's not about why sad endings are bad. It's that all things end, and the final end is death, destruction, decay, losing what was once there. To have a happy ending means cutting the story off at the right moment, not the last moment when the story runs out and leaves only rot.
Just like movie franchises that lose their touch, drifting far away from their roots of form if more movies kept being made by abusing it as a trend. Sequels tend to forget what made the concepts special in the first place. For example, Star Wars, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, MCU, and Jurassic Park.
Mom read me Lord of the Rings nightly...back in the 1970's when I was a very young boy... I would give anything I have to hear her again............
After death.
May you and your mother reunite in the Halls of Mandos, my friend.
Sorry for your loss
Sorry for your loss.😢
That sounds like a great memory
Not only was Tolkien a mythologist, but he deeply understood human nature. We can see much of his concerns manifesting on the world stage today. Man becomes bored in his safety, and creates strife with others to validate his need for excitement and importance. Tolkien knew it will never end, this hunger for wickedness. And he was right to leave his brilliance with the trilogy.
🤝
@@weirdgilly8727it wasn’t a trilogy it was one book
@@harlengreen8981 huh?
it has been punlished in one book, but lotr is a trilogy.
unless u mean the sequel?
@@roblox_bedwars_content it was never intended to be a trilogy that was what the publishers decided
ye, and the authorwrote it as a trilogy, and decided it should be a trilogy. without the author, there is no lotr, so ima just call it a trilogy@@harlengreen8981
It would have been fascinating to have a sequel, but in many ways I'm glad it didn't. LotR can be considered perfect as a story, and a sequel would have probably been overshadowed (pun intended) by the original story
Was the 1st or 2nd age forgotten? No. This would have great
Well on the other hand imagine a thriller featuring the lost kings of the Avari elves Morwe and Nurwe having lived on into the third age and with the addition king Thranduil not being a companion of Cirdan on the last ship.
Awesome villains
+ good real fear (without jumpscares)
+ massive plot twists
+ awesome surrogates
+ unparalleled endings.
PLUS THE BLUE WIZARDS
Lotr is already a sequel to the Silmarillion.
Yeah a "sequel" would be great if it were solely about human concerns, "magic" moving forward doesn't fit well to the overarching narrative. Sauron was really just the last vestige of Valar interference, and it's clear that a sequel would have to be a sorta dry human story.
This would have made an amazing short film
It's mood and theme are creepy and mysterious
But I agree with Tolkien; end the story we know on a high note
Our reality is a burden enough
A short movie? This could be a trilogy with the last movie split into 2 parts a la Hunger Games style. Milk the money.
Or a Novella
If it should end on the high note, then I feel like Tolkien's rejection to write it was not because it would make the ending depressing, but because he felt that he would not have time to create an uplifting sequel that would take place after the depressing sequel.
I, unlike most Middle Earth fans, completely disagree with the idea that the story and history of evil in Middle Earth would not have made for a very interesting continuation (I am saying this after having heard what the video said so please pay attention). Christopher or any other Tolkien would have done well had they wanted to keep writing more on Middle Earth and we would have loved it if, they had visions and ideas of how amazing it could have been done. I know how it could have been done, but it's obvious Tolkien didn't want to think deeper on the possibilities and the wonderful dynamics and paths that were open to more Middle Earth life, color, adventure and horror. I do hate seeing how everyone MUST follow along and never think outside that narrow tunnel. You all give up so easily. The Silmarillion, TLOTR, The Hobbit and the rest of Tolkien's fantasy writings are my favorite readings, btw.
I would have liked to have read the new shadow. It would have been akin to the Scourging of the Shire on steroids with a little bit of game of thrones mixed in.
The reason Tolkien created the Lord of the Rings was to create a new mythology for England. This story would effectively serve as a bridge between middle earth and real earth. It is the part where high fantasy turns into low fantasy and then merges with known history. I could see tie ins with the Mabinogion tales and Arthurian legend. Narsil could be Excalibur.
Maybe there would be a great cataclysm that would rend apart middle earth and reshape the land to look like Europe similar to what happened to Berriland at the end of the first age. Gondor would be drowned under the English channel and north sea.
"Tolkien knew when to practice restraint" if only Hollywood writers could figure out this rare skill 😂
Hollywood is profit orientated, that’s why it doesn’t practice restraint, as long as there is money for a sequel, then a sequel it is
Yass!! Everything doesn’t need a sequence or reboot!
Tolkien wrote as a hobby as he had a job as a professor. Hollywood is a business.
I think Hollywood is restrained at the same time. They’re restrained to sequels remakes and super hero movies. Lol
@@dacronic1646 They exist to make money. So anything that made money in the past is a selling point.
I cannot fully describe how gut-wrenching it was to find out in Star Wars that this "First Order" had risen and taken control of the galaxy in one go. It completely destroyed the great victory over the empire in ROTJ, when even for Star Wars there were so many significant threads that were left undone that could have been explored.
LOTR seems to have shored up a vast majority of their loose ends, so doing a sequel seemed kinda pointless.
The sequel isn't canon, period! ;)
The canon star wars after ROTJ is Heir to the empire. No discussion.
Not to mention how Palpatine returning makes Anakin's sacrifice basically meaningless.
I didnt like how they handled the original characters. Luke a coward? Han a deadbeat dad?
The story described here seems more akin to the thrawn novels from the star wars legends, the empire and Republic have swapped roles and its the "empire" as a small insurgent force vs the larger, un organised new Republic, great way to flip the story.
Shame the new star wars films didn't at least follow that part of the thrawn books, or understand luke skywalker but thats a whole other conversation.
"...not worth doing"
Tolkien was a scholar of myths. He was a myth-writer. A mere "thriller" set in the LotR universe would have been a disservice to the "high fantasy" which had gone before. He was a wise steward of the world he had created. It would have been easy to do otherwise.
Not the greatest author really but he created his own language and used some linguistic gimmiks which may be appreciated by some but all in all a decent fantasy author.
No doubt a great story could have been written in this setting. However, the point as I understand it is that having this story set in Middle Earth would not have added additional value.
@@paulgoogol2652 "Decent fantasy author" Okay, mate.
It would have been easy to write such a book poorly, but that doesn't mean the attempt shouldn't be made. Perhaps it wasn't time to tell that particular story just yet. Perhaps the time will come.
@@crowonthepowerlines ,
My point wasn't that the book would have been poorly done in itself, but that it would have been a different kind of book, even if done well. The shift would have detracted from what had already been written even if the newer book was well-written for what it was.
Unlike most storytellers today, Tolkien truly believed what he preached--that food, cheer and song are more valuable than hoarded gold, and a good story cannot be measured in monetary value. Today, most authors and writers are more concerned with making bank and catering to whatever the current fad is, than even telling a good story. Marvel, Disney, Paramount, Amazon, all busy corrupting priceless literary gems like Ungoliant and Melkor destroying the Trees of Valinor.
"most authors and writers are more concerned with making bank and catering to whatever the current fad is, than even telling a good story."
You can't blame writers for wanting to make a decent living.
@@admiralfrancis8424 you can blame them for being hacks
@@Jonathan-gj1rlI would place a higher emphasis on blaming the market for encouraging hacks.
Nice way to say it ❤
@admiralfrancis8424 they don't want a decent living. They want money. It's different.
Do you believe that Tolkien or any other old writer, were poor poor or rich?
Probably the most of the money was earner by his family after him.
I always did wonder if Tolkin had written the sequel if he would have linked it to the fate of the two Blue Wizards. He dithered on their fate but them falling to evil and starting magical cults could have been used for the New Shadow.
That would have been interesting, and would have continued Tolkien's pattern of greater things being replaced by somewhat lesser (Morgoth > Sauron > Blue Wizards). The danger is that those who can stand on par with the Blue Wizards have left Middle Earth. I can see a couple of paths involving the Blue Wizards: 1) Fallen as best friends, they function as one. "Herumor" is perceived as one Black Lord, but is actually two, and can therefore appear in distant places when expected in another. 2) A tragedy of separation: One is fallen, twisted of Sauron. The other remains true to the Valar, and must lead the fight against his best friend.
My problem is that with LOTR you practically removed all magic, and it was essential to that point, so yes, Blue Wizards could be used. However I do not feel it would be enough. There are no golems, no dragons, no orcs, ents, or elves, plus some small number of dwarfs... Goblins?! You still have vast infrastructure built by dwarfs and elves, maybe that could be used. So it would be most logical to start evil with human greed, but also in same time roll over whole reality of those passed 100 years since Aragorn died. Maybe human finding some elves literature and gaining advantage over others... That would actually be really corny way of extending legacy.
@@GranDaddo Many of the things you listed there are still present in this time period. All of these races and creatures didn't vanish and many of them went on to flourish in some way.
@@Jnaathra I thought Smaug was the last one, that fleed after defeat, but did not survive long after, that all of Elves left to Valinor, and ones that remained slowly decline. Not many dwarfs left after battle of five armies... So I thought thats it.
@@GranDaddo Smaug was the last of the great dragons, lesser kin survived after the war of the ring. The Dwarven race has all sorts of cool things that happen after the War of the Ring. They help rebuild cities in Gondor and the fortress of Hornburg. The Glittering Caves become a newly established realm for them. The Lonely Mountain kingdom prospers. Durin VII (the Last), retakes Moria and brought Khazad-dûm back to its original splendor, and the Longbeards lived there till the "world grew old and the days of Durin's race ended." You also mention Ents, but I don't know of any writings that state they departed or ceased to be. I know they are gifted Nan Curunír by King Elessar in gratitude for their aid and that they established a new forest there called Watchwood. The list goes on!
Tolkien had a lot of weight on his shoulders after the war and I think he removed a lot of it with the Lord of the Rings. He found peace and was content with that. In that light it makes sense as to why he never made a sequel. Why trudge up old wounds for similar outcomes.
I've convinced myself that writing was therapy for Tolkien, years before such therapy become common in self-help groups.
@@TheDanEdwards Hence *The Inklings* ?
I would be careful to link Tolkien's writing to his war experiences. Tolkien hated allegories like that, because he deemed them to be pretentious and (above all) condescending. In his foreword to LOTR he vehemently denies that war guided his writing hand.
@@MightyJabroni I've always questioned that a little. I respect what he said of himself but none of us can truly say 100% with certainty that we are never guided by past experiences.
@@MightyJabroni He may have said he hated allegories, and others have also said LoTR is not allegorical, but it is clearly loaded with allegory.
The only full follow up I would have ever wanted to read would be about the end of time on middle earth. We know that Tolkien had created a rough outline for it. Melkor gets free and there is a final battle that results in the destruction of all evil forever and Eru Illuvatar creates everything new. That's what I would have enjoyed. The ending of the old world and the creation of the promised paradise.
I actually just released a vid on the Dagor Dagorath if you’re interested: ua-cam.com/video/NqsBnvejfdw/v-deo.html
Yep, good point.
Eru Amazonitar is already recreating the world
Cause you’re a goofy
@@ChadSmith-nq8ty lol😂 true
I think it would've definitely been a story worth writing, because it doesn't take anything from the great victory over Sauron, but it does remind us that eternal vigilance is the price of virtue and freedom, and that people, put in a situation of plenty and wealth, will often become complacent and bored, leading to stagnation, weakness and sometimes outright evil.
but there is nothing epic,no great evil just men doing plots... it would be a game of thrones...and i think that is no place for that in tolken's world.
@@ArlindoBuriti not everything has to be over-the-top epic. tolkien's world can contain all kinds of plots that would fit very well.
@@ArlindoBuritiThere would still be room for epicness... Apart from Gondor and King Aragorn's newly-revitalised Arnor - which would be fascinating to explore in itself - there were many distinct cultures of Men in Middle-Earth which would be fascinating to explore like the Dúnedain Rangers up north in Eriador and Rhôvanion, the Haradrim from the deserts and jungles of Harad, the reclusive Druedain, the men of Dol Amroth, the men of Khand, the men of Umbar (now liberated from the corsairs who had ruled since shortly after the fall of Númenor IIRC), Easterlings from Rhûn and further East, and the men of Breeland. So there would be a lot of room for riveting intrigues, alliances and undoubtedly further conflicts as new borders are delineated, new realms established and long-forsaken regions repopulated. Though unfortunately it seems that Tolkien wasn't too fond of political intriguesm I believe he specifically mentioned them as a reason to abandon the inchoate sequel 😅
Plus several Elven kingdoms remained in Middle-Earth for quite some time into the Fourth Age, such as Lothlórien, Dorwinion, the Grey Havens, and Kirkwood/Greenwood. Plus there's the Dwarves at the Iron Hills, the Grey Mountains, Erebor and the reborn Khazad-Dûm, among others. Then there's still the Ents (who I believe _did_ find the Entwives after all💙), the Eagles, the Beornings, the Hobbits of the Shire and Breeland, and of course the perennial perplexing enigma that is Tom Bombadil and his wife.
There were/are still many potential candidates for a new antagonist(s), Tolkien never explicitly elaborated on the fate of Morgoth's myriad abominations, and the fact that a Balrog was still alive in Moria and Shelob even existed at all suggests to me that many Balrogs, Spiders and other "demons" reside in the vestigial halls and corridors of Morgoth's dungeons.
I like to think that there's also still other Balrogs, Cave Trolls, and other malevolent disciples of Morgoth lurking amongst the buried and overgrown ruins of his cavernous, labyrinthine fortresses at Utumno and Angband, doubtlessly followed by a frenzied throng of goblins or orcs, who IMO still linger in substantial numbers in the "deep places or the world". So the primary antagonist needn't be restricted to a Man, there were lots of potential candidates - but I can see how defeating a "mere servant" of Morgoth might seem anti-climactic, as opposed to essentially his right-hand man in Sauron, but I dunno, I reckon there _would_ be other corrupted Maiar equal to or even more powerful than Sauron hiding in the deepest dungeons of Utumno and elsewhere, there could even potentially be more dragons out there (that's my headcanon anyway 😅).
Oh, and there's the Blue wizards, they could have been an interesting foundation for a sequel. We NEED to know what happened to them! My headcanon is that they split up, with one going north east to the shores of the inland sea of Rhûn, while the other went south east towards the realms east of Mordor; they each protected an individual realm from Sauron's influence, as Gandalf did, but similarly to Gandalf they lacked the time and manpower to "cast their net" any wider, thus they decided to knuckle down and aid the defense of these realms were besieged by Sauron's armies. I like to think they remained in Middle-Earth for many generations (along with Radagast the Brown), but ultimately returned to the Undying Lands.
It's a shame Tolkien never went ahead with it, but I can appreciate his rationale for discarding it. He wasn't really interested in creating a "franchise" per se, at least not in the modern sense of the term.
And I suppose that with the Elves' continual departures to Aman, the prospect of writing more stories in this universe seemed saddening or unfulfilling to him, since it's clear from his letters and from the texts themselves that the Elves held a very special place in his heart, alongside Tom and Goldberry and Beren and Luthien who both represent Tolkien and his wife Edith (in fact I believe their gravestones are engraved with "Beren" and "Luthien", which is just beautiful, just absolutely beautiful).
May they rest in eternal peace 🙏🏻💙
May💙
I would have preferred more prequels than sequels. The end of Sauron isn't exactly final, as there are balrogs and dragons and evil spirits and men not entirely accounted for... but it's an end of great evil power. That the stories end there before the fourth age is good.
Yea they need movie prequels that lead up to the hobbit or lord of the rings where its set in the 1st and 2nd ages and when Morgoth was tryna take over middle earth, it would probably take like 15 long movies to tell all those stories written by Tolkien.
There are prequels.
@@thewzy9225 YESS! amazon is going to give us a prequel, in sept, 2nd age of sun tv show!? wow.. I will be curious !!
@@TrueMithrandir It's not gonna be anything like LotR. It's gonna be a complete deconstruction of Tolkien. You're going to regret watching it.
@@Arcessitor It’ll be ok, Lotr can live outside of Tolkien. After all, it’s for us and our imaginations. Keep the stories living on and on.
The final chapter of ROTK book is so powerful and emotional and that shall always be the ending. I am pleased he had the foresight to not write further and ultimately subtract from that ending.
In many ways, Tolkien was writing a mythical history for England, a British tale of lore that he felt was lacking. So the sequel to the LOTR is... now, really. We're living in "The Age of Men". And we all see what we've done with the place.
Funny enough, I'm not English and after I finished reading his books, especially The Silmarillion, I felt like what he wrote was part of my heritage too. I hope he knew what he wrote was more than a mythical history of England.
@@saelind73 it is everywhere in the West. He predicted the future and it depressed him, hence no sequel.
Not only what we are doing to earth but much more. Like men losing their testosterone, more men becoming sterile etc. Big signs of comfort and degeneracy
@@FragbiteOeXistenz damn youre right tho
Amen you're so right.
"The New Shadow" is so compelling for what it is. The short story/moody piece we are given is such a potent reminder of our grim nature. I find I think about it more often than I'd like to these days. It might not be finished or an epic sequel, but I still value it for what it is - and like many in the comments below I think it's for the better that Tolkien didn't complete it.
All the catchy names and Debbie, never fails to make me smile ☺
I find it interesting that Tolkien embarked on this kind of sequel at all, since, as he seemed to recognize, it would be exclusively human-centric, when the whole rest of the Legendarium is about the tendency of the Elves to weariness and how they interact with Men. Eliminating the Elves entirely creates a story very disconnected from the rest. Nevertheless, I do want to see how this might have turned out.
It was still during the era where other races roamed middle earth, but with increased scarcity. Although almost all the elves were gone, the dwarves actually recovered several of their old holdings and returned to a level of prominence they had not enjoyed in living memory (Gimli even founded a dwarven colony in the Glittering Caves behind the Hornburg and his people rebuilt the walls of Helm's Deep far stronger than ever). Tolkien also notes in some of these writings that the surviving orcs had gathered into their own societies and were relatively peaceful without the influence of sauron, but they faced discrimination and fear from the other races for many generations after.
@@Rob_Fordd Didn't he write that the Dwarves have difficulties to find wives and slowly die out?
@@ignatzmeyer1978 I think that was part of it yeah lol
Not all of the elves would have left. Numbers of them had been sailing West for millenia, which is why their numbers in Middle Earth were so diminished but there's no indication that they all suddenly left after the fall of Sauron.
@@Codex7777 IIRC Tolkien mentioned in a few places that the remaining elven communities, even Rivendale dwindled rapidly, and within century was basically empty.
Tolkien was a wise man, he didn't continue the sequel to gave us a space to dream up. I am glad he did so.
@Sergei Boyakhchyan yes, refreshing!!
I, unlike most Middle Earth fans, completely disagree with the idea that the story and history of evil in Middle Earth would not have made for a very interesting continuation (I am saying this after having heard what the video said so please pay attention). Christopher or any other Tolkien would have done well had they wanted to keep writing more on Middle Earth and we would have loved it if, they had visions and ideas of how amazing it could have been done. I know how it could have been done, but it's obvious Tolkien didn't want to think deeper on the possibilities and the wonderful dynamics and paths that were open to more Middle Earth life, color, adventure and horror. I do hate seeing how everyone MUST follow along and never think outside that narrow tunnel. You all give up so easily. The Silmarillion, TLOTR, The Hobbit and the rest of Tolkien's fantasy writings are my favorite readings, btw.
You have just described exactly what the "Alien" franchise ruined. For decades there were countless message boards and fans who came together to theorize on the unexplained lore: the jockeys, where the aliens came from, etc. etc.
But the making of Prometheus and the sequels butchered the mystique. Suddenly and forever more, the conversation was dead. There was no room left for speculation and theory crafting.
Be glad some things were left open to your imagination. It's a blessing
This was like the unknown tale that all tolkien fans thought would never come
The arc is perfect as it stands, beginning with the Great Music and ending with Merry, Pippin and Sam listening to its remaining echoes as they stand by the ocean. Tolkien was wise to stop there.
I 100% agree with your take on Tolkien’s wisdom in practicing restraint. While I yearn for more tales of Middle Earth to dive into, adding more to a perfectly crafted and completed story often cheapens the original effort. Your use of Star Wars was a perfect example. Even the images from Star Wars that you highlighted to make your point were perfect. Thank you for making this video!
the sad thing is its not impossible to continue on satisfyingly from a completed work (just look at the eu) disney just mostly did a really bad job
@@poppag8281Felt like they didn’t think things through the fullest. All they did do a rehash of the og trilogy be a sequel needed a payoff of the heroes victories.
I always saw the end of LOTR as a transition into OUR timeline and history. No more fantasy and magic, just the regular history of men with all the issues we know about our past. War, politics, famine, industrialization, etc. In other words, if you wanted to get an idea at what a world after LOTR would look like, you just had to pick up a history book.
Seriously man. No elves no party, I'm glad the Dwarves and Hobbits are still with Men otherwise Middle Earth would be 100% Earth.
@@yosafatvalentinus3440 It's not just dwarves and hobbits. I am sure, I ran into some Orcs in my day. And we all know that the internet is full of trolls.
@@MightyJabroni If you wanna see orcs, visit any pride day parade. They're called Drag Queens these days.
me too
Most people think as you do because they fail to grasp possibilities, vision and dynamics that still existed in Middle Earth. You don't disconnect Tolkien from the world of Middle Earth. A write creates the world it wrote about, but everything in it still lives on. There are far, far too many things Middle Earth can still provide in an amazing fantasy setting.
Great summary. I feel like what comes after, is like much of the writing of recent years: dystopian, gritty, dark and depressing truths about human nature. While that can be useful, we have enough of that in the real world, so it's always left me cold. Maybe it's escapism, but I'd rather be inspired and leave with hope, not be tempted into despair. The primary world has plenty of that. I'm glad that Tolkien resisted what many modern writers have not.
I agree, but as a world-view type of thing: I always like to remember that bad news always travel farther than the good ones. I love escapism, but there is no reason to lose hope in the real world. Sam's famous speech in Osgiliath applies to the real world as well and we don't even have immortal beings of pure evil.
It's telling that Tolkien saw that coming as well - after evil was defeated in the great war, a long time of prosperity and peace came about, but everything good just seems normal when there is nothing bad to compare it to.
@@totaleNonale Good was defeated in the war and evil won, hence the world we live in now in the aftermath where evil can run amok unopposed.
@@folksurvival i dont know where you got that from. It's not what happened in Tolkien's world and it's certainly not what happened in the real one either
@@totaleNonale " i dont know where you got that from."
It's just a tragic reality of history and the way historical events played out.
@@folksurvival hey melancholy can be just as beautiful as euphoria so I don't want to step on your journey there, but last time I checked the fascists lost the war and I might be stepping into a hornets nest here but the US got the bloody nose they were bound to get from meddling in other nations affairs. Everything since then can scarcely be called a war, since it is little more than international bullying.
I would agree that the current state of society looks a bit grim, but of course your own problems always look bigger than those of others or the past.
I'm very much a lover of uplifting, happy endings to stories. I think LotR ended perfectly. Like someone else said earlier, it is similar to Game of Thrones in many ways. I like GoT, but I also find it sometimes rather too dark and depressing. This sequel would have likely done the same. I have no doubt it would have been masterfully written and probably would have ended on a good note. But, I don't think I would have enjoyed the read. So I'm glad that this never got written.
That reminds me of reading the Witcher series. The books are more 'realistic' than LOTR in the sense of politics and war but they really make you feel crappy reading them sometimes. Especially after reading actual accounts of Easter Europe during WWII.
Tough call. It was all so good a tale that, when it was over, there was emptiness along with the gladness of victory. But peace brings boredom, and that begats evil.
"A price too great for what is promised, let alone delivered", followed by images from the latest Star Wars trilogi. Ouch, that hits close to home!
You have a poet's heart, your closing comments were very moving and true. And extra thumbs up for referencing the Last Jedi and the dismantling of Luke Skywalkwer therein.
Enjoyed that reference to the Star Wars sequel trilogy at the end. Not that a sequel trilogy never could have worked, but it was a mistake to make the new big bad, the First Order, just a carbon copy of the Empire. Like Tolkien said, that's just kind of depressing and the overthrow of the same big bad isn't really worth telling. If they had tried something completely different, I would have been on board. But no.
I have SO MANY thoughts on Star Wars. They had some great, compelling characters in Force Awakens that they totally squandered (esp Finn). They totally botched integrating the OT characters. Their integration served little purpose but to give their characters some of the most depressing ends possible. They would’ve been far better off having the OT characters be primary characters or setting the whole thing centuries later.
@@NerdoftheRings Imagine after all Aragorn went through, he abandons his kingdom to live in exile as a depressed hermit because of a mistake he made that contradicts his established character. This is what Luke is like in TLJ, and it's the most depressing outcome for this hopeful and optimistic character. He should never have considered trying to kill Ben Solo in his sleep, considering his arc in the OT is trying to bring Anakin back, no matter the cost. Let alone trying to kill Ben he should never have just abandoned the galaxy and his friends to suffer another Sith controlled fascist regime.
Even though the sequel would be set years after Aragorn's death, it still runs the issue of making the ending of the LOTR meaningless almost, like what happened with the Star Wars OT, so it seems wise for Tolkien to stop after that realisation. Although I would have liked (good) Star Wars sequels.
@@NerdoftheRings Cobra Kai is a good example of how to continue the story of the original main characters decades later, and how to introduce new characters without ruining the original characters. It can be done, you just have to have respect for the original story and the original characters. You must continue their story forward from where it was left, not push it all back to the original starting point.
Yeah that was some subtle but powerful shade he threw at Disney...
From my point of view the main problem wasn't Luke as a hermit, or even him trying to kill his own nephew for the stupidest reasons. No, they simply went for the quick buck and the only thing they do : a bloody reboot with almost no continuity. Written with their feet... 🤬
The worst crime was to declare the whole extended universe culture non-canon. Star Wars was apparently unquie in that way that it was the fans who drove the story outside the movie triolgy, and what was considered canon was mostly by popular vote.
I'm not going to lie, I would have absolutely loved this sequel. I know people think that it potentially could have fallen into the trap of other sequels, as in, never living up to LOTR, but I genuinely believe that Tolkien would be incapable of not turning this into a perfect masterpiece, as with all his other works.
I'm suprised that so many people think it would be a bad idea for Tolkien to write the sequel. I'd love to read it and I'm sorry it was never written.
@@cq7t agreed! I understand totally that Lord of the Rings is a beautiful end to our knowing of Middle Earth, but I feel we are left with the impression that darkness can arise at anytime if evil is left unchecked and I always assumed that many more great wars occured after the War of the Ring anyway
Same I would so like to read it too.
I agree. In a way it would have made Middle Earth feel like perhaps it actually existed a few thousand years ago. That's silly, obviously, but to tell a post-fantasy story where it's mostly humans (no longer other fantastical creatures) dealing with the rise of evil mischief whenever things get too easy, well we can very much relate to that. It almost connects the fantasy to reality.
@@cecilcharlesofficial 100 percent agree! Oh well, I guess we'll have to stay wondering what could have been 💓
Your ending comments are very well thought out and spoken. Hats off.
I actually like this. It speaks true of what we've seen throughout our history. When there's an age of complacency and we don't stress on the record of struggle that got us to that point, there's misrule, anarchy, distrust, arrogance among the youth and conniving scheming heads who take advantage of this to foment the seeds of dissent and chaos.
There has to be a point in any franchise where the author decides that this is a good place to end it. When the tale is done and you’ve reached the climax, and there’s no more mileage out of it. Just quite while you’re ahead. Tolkien was right to not make a sequel to return of the king.
Exactly or you end up no longer having the passion for the world or story because you focus in trying to make something as impressive yet fail to capture what you once did.
This is the reason George RR Martin wrote himself into a corner and can't finish his work it's the same reason jk Rowling's newer stories make no sense in the timeline or lore of her own world.
If you make a world so magical and intriguing that people love then make a lore for it whether that be in your story or a separate piece, you need to know when to end it. Once the passion goes, you've run out of ideas. If you can't read your own work and get excited at ideas and possibilities you have pushed it too far.
It's far better to end it even with more ideas than to run out of ideas and be left reaching for something.
True artists know when to end their painting, their symphony, their story, or any other creation. They know when "less is more". Most of the "more" in creative pursuits today are driven purely by the prospect of making more money from them.
As always, I am stunned by the Professor's wisdom. It must have been so tempting to write that tale! And yet I'm glad it never happened
somehow Sauron returned.
the people at Disney truly are geniuses
Sigh
From about 10:15 to 11:40, Tolkien's comments about humanity prove wiser than even he could have guessed. Revelations of his thoughts like these further increase my amazement at his genius. Thank you "Nerd" for bringing these things to the rest of us.
Shrek in the 4th age: can there not be a rising evil
FOR FIVE MINUTES!?
😂😂😂
Glad he never wrote this. LOTR has a very sad ending and pretty much eluded to this depressing story. We are living it now.
yep perhaps middle earth is out past and the sequel is us today
@@Green-cactus. it's not just a perhaps, Tolkien treated LotR as a translation of an ancient tome called the Red Book of Westmarch. It's meant to be a historical myth / legend
@@OtepRalloma The "Red Book of Westmarch" was written by Tolkien. It was Bilbo's journal or the one he was working on and then later Frodo writes in it too. Becca Tarnas talks about the red book of both Tolkien and Carl Jung in a video. This is the video ua-cam.com/video/l6oh14vfhlI/v-deo.html
@@AwakeningWings I know Tolkien wrote it, because the Red Book IS the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. He was pretending it's a real historical book that he translated, which I think is hella neat
@@OtepRalloma Oh okay, I had a feeling you already knew about it. But not everyone knows about this stuff.
That is true, he did use it in that way. In a way it's like Tolkien's journal; a lot like Carl Jung's Red Book.
Those Star Wars screenshots accompanying the end are too perfect
He creates myths and legends, cultures and races, religions and politics, languages and accents, creation to end he tells the tales of love and hate and darkness and light, hope and loss and everything in between.
The symbolism, concepts and ideas he plays with, the abstracts and philosophy, the metaphors and way of describing it like a poem , how he slowly reveals the world in greater detail than any historic document, about the people, their feelings, their thoughts, about the interactions and bonds.
How the world he created changed and grew is just beautiful.
The story as you presented it seems like it would’ve been quite a page turner! Your voice acting was excellent and the mysteries being hinted at were enticing. I would have liked to have had the full story. Not everything Tolkien wrote necessarily had to be some grand king epic! I wish he would have done this as a one off story.
I feel very much that Tolkien understood a very hard truth in the hearts of men and that this book wouldn't have been relevant when it was written but is very relevant today. It's a good thing to not push past the ending of the Lord of the Rings as a story, it is really well told and brings up something withing my spirit that I always need to hear. Not sure if I would have wanted to read the sequel, but I feel there is a story that needs to be heard in its harsh reality.
Thanks for your work in sharing this material. It means a lot to me today.
Yes, I agree. It does feel very relevant to today.
this especially nowadays
The New Shadow - about evil returning in the Fourth Age, but found it both repulsive and depressing. He wrote it for some 13 pages, but quit after 14 pages.
Oh, goodness! This is exactly what I needed for my fanfiction. To take this kind of "doom and gloom" as the final battle type trope, but instead of wreck and ruin, it's the end/beginning of time with Eru and the Valar walking on Arda and being with her people, all of whom are now eternal beings.
Go write it! I'd definitely be a reader
Very intriguing. I obviously want more content like the rest of us however, all of the content we have is typically from the perspective of a being in middle-earth.
Who would be “telling us” the story of the 4th age, or would it be a first person experience? The Valar themselves haven’t seen what happens after, in their initial vision of the Music.
As stated in early pages of the Silmarillion, “Some have said that the vision ceased ere the fulfillment of the Dominion of Men and the fading of the Firstborn; wherefore, though the Music is over all, the Valar have not seen as with the sight the Later Ages or the ending of the World.”
I get that the original ending was very satisfying for nearly all fans of LOTR, but this honestly sounds like a very mature and compelling story to tell. I would be very interested in an adult story that has no more monsters and dark lords left to defeat, but only the evil left in men. The parts that Tolkien started with sound like a very logical beginning for the story he wanted to tell in the century after Aragorn. If done right, it could've been a pretty cool story. Oh well, I trust Tolkein's judgment to leave it be.
If the Silmarillion had been published by then,… Tolkien may have decided to take a different direction with additional stories. I just have this burning feeling that Tolkien always planned for the return of Morgoth.
then Men could've been the ones to defeat him this time, as Morgoth comes back to a world bereft of darkness, but also stuck in it's lack of conflict. Thus he'd initially find man easy to corrupt and turn against himself. But once good people rose up to face him, the fight would begin and soon, without Elves or maybe even the Valar, Men, and probably Dwarves too, would triumph over Morgoth and whatever nasties he summoned from the deep places of the world (perhaps another Balrog that had been slumbering like Durin's Bane but was never discovered?)
@@enderman_of_d00m24
You mean repeat the same thing again. Morgoth was taken out from arda in the end of first age, so im not sure can he even be able to return back.
@@jout738 in the canonically uncertain Dagor Dagorath, at the end of ages, the now separated from Arda - Valinor, the Valars and all the inhabitants of Valinor begins to decay with Ea after holding it back for so long, so much so that it made the guards of the gates to the timeless void "sleepeth" while Morgoth slowly regained his power from his essence in Arda and the decay of Ea. That's how he escaped the timeless void according to Dagor Dagorath.
@@enderman_of_d00m24 so, basically Dagor Dagorath? because Morgoth resurrecting evil entities, the final war, battles against the valars, and Morgoth's death by Turin Turambar (a man), fits your description, and it also mentions the return of the Elves and Dwarves to Arda
Morgoth was very much doomed to return one final time thanks in part that he became nigh inseparable from Arda, while the decay of the world will eventually bite the Valars sooner or later, but whether it'll be like Tolkien's uncertain Dagor Dagorath or different is uncertain
I have much enjoyed your expositions and commentary on J.R.R. Tolkiens works, including this one. I agree that he indeed chose wisely to leave his Magnus Opus finished as it was. I would like to add however that there is a very interesting counterpoint that is reflected in the work you are referring to in this commentary. Carl Jung the famous Swiss psychologist who was a contemporary of Professor Tolkien has stated that the winners of a conflict take on the shadow of those whom they defeat. If this is understood consciously it can be managed in a constructive manner. However, if this shadow remains in the unconscious it will manifest in the negative. If you look at the long and innumerable wars that the elves fought against Morgoth (and Sauron) and the victories they achieved without succumbing to the shadow incurred by those victories it may have been because of their age and experience that they were consciously able to recognize the shadow that they had assumed and bend it towards the positive by ownership and recognition. I think this can be demonstrated by both Gandalf and Galadriel's reaction to what accepting the power of the One Ring would do to them. In other words, they were very conscious of their own potential for evil, unlike Saruman.
Man, they way you read that was amazing...I was so into it...making me want to know so much more. I love the ending of LOTR as it is and how Tolkien decided not to continue but as a Tolkien fan we can all agree if he would have continued...well, we would love it!
Honestly I am glad Tolkien never finished "New shadow ". It sounds more like "Game of thrones " then "Lord of the rings ".
the scary music in the background really adds to this story
This sounds eerily similar to what is occurring in our own world at this very moment!! The lessons of before are forgotten and now the young cheer for the removal of their own freedoms and wish to instill the very evils an entire generation spent fighting against!!
My exact thoughts!
I swear, if you're talking about vaccines that save lives... stop saying no sense
@@francescomercanti7500 no I refer to Brexit and similar situations when nations that had it good for a long time decide to ruin their country because they grew bored and complacent to new dangerous politics because they took prosperity and peace for granted! these are usually people born into prosperity, wealth, and peace who never had to fight for any of it... they are usually the ones that will destroy everything that their fathers gave their life for
@@Berndr My bad, I was referring to the first comment though. Also didn't the youth vote help the Remain campaign? I'm pretty sure that young people votes overwhemingly to Remain. It's actually older who voted to leave. The reason I give is that young people have a more open mind to diversity and globalism whereas older generations are nostalgic of times of isolationism and soft(not Fascist) nationalism and patriotism
Not surprised these generations got brain rot@@francescomercanti7500
This reminds me of what i heard someone say. "we are only one generation from destruction"
I can't express how much I agree with you... and the exemple of Star Wars at the end was just perfect.
I hope the same never happens with LOTR, and I would be lying if I said I'm not worried about the Amazon series. It won't have the same impact as the Sequels did for Star Wars, but it would still hurt to see the same treatment being given to my favorite franchise.
It is the most expensive TV show ever so I hope they are careful with it or else it will be the biggest disaster in the history of TV (I think they are also in a 5 season contract with the Tolkien estate so that is another reason for them not to mess it up).
The Amazon series is high-budget fan fiction, and therefore will not affect Tolkien's true legacy.
@@tominiowa2513 It also is a prequel and will not hurt the films as much
I think it was a wise choide to have the show take place in the Second Age, where there is a whole lot more room to make, shall we say, "smaller" stories. We're talking about a span of time almost 3500 years long, with good guys, bad guys, sorcerers, Elves, Dwarves, Men, Numenoreans, Orcs, etc. all existing and interacting in the same realm, and Tolkien himself only ever explored very little of it. I'm up for a well told tale. It may just be elevated fan fiction, but I'm up for exploring places that Tolkien only briefly described, like Lindon or Harad.
We all know there is going to be some useless ‘representation’ that won’t add anything to the overarching story. Before I get slaughtered for this, what I mean is when they add that stuff in for the sake of having it. Not to help drive the story or plot.
Like Cowboy Bebop Netflix mode, Faye Valentine having a full on lesbian sex experience. For one I don’t remember her being lesbian in the original, and it literally didn’t add to the story.
All of those images are absolutely divine!
This is so poetic! I honestly feel like anything after Aragorn would have to wait a couple decades until the audience becomes complacent as well
I always thought that the concentration of evil in purely malevolent beings in fantasy was unrealistic, because there is always the struggles in humans themselves. But then again, it's fantasy, you can come up with anything. But if there is always a greater evil force after one has been overcome, it really is depressing. So I guess it's the right choice of Tolkien not to have continued with this sequel. Even though I find it fascinating to think that this sequel might be his thoughts about how the second world war would be remembered after everyone who experienced it had died.
Two thoughts: 1: this excerpt really felt like game of thrones to me, especially the murky level of intrigue you get in storm of swords. 2: I think it would be been thrilling to have this plot intermingled with maybe a dragon, or dragon cult or something. We never really know if Smaug is the last great dragon, and we never get a long look at the north or south of middle earth. Perhaps there is room for growth with a political tale mixed with a dragon adventure? Thanks, great video.
The name of the world is Arda, middle earth is middle earth because it is on the middle.
Kinda like south america and north america in the continental scale.
Also a hundred years could have changed a lot maybe the Kingdom of Man is now an Early Modern society, with their Late Medieval Period being the War of the Ring to make it different from the rest of the series and act as its own thing with plots, intregue and a Human Civil War.
A Kingdom with Pike and Shot but still hints of the Medieval days like Orders would be interesting, as well as the dying Fantastical elements like Dwarves and even Orcs maybe even twist it a bit where some Orcs are grey or even good helping the heroes against the rebellion. (Basically like Warhammers Empire but its England in the Early Modern Period and not the Holy Roman Empire)
But like Tolkine said its just not LOTR.
It’s so incredible how well Tolkien understands history and how much it repeats because the young generations don’t know about the horrors of the past. Having young teenagers worshiping orcs and Sauron would be the equivalent of young people praising the Nazi or Communism in the modern day, which is pretty freaking accurate.
"young people praising the Nazi or Communism in the modern day"
They do, just under the new names of neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism.
@@tominiowa2513 I don’t think Neo Liberalism or “New Liberalism” praises communism since they strongly support free markets. People supporting communism nowadays are mostly part of the Democratic Socialist of America or simply a bunch of delusional tankies blind to the atrocities caused by communism
@@darthxandrum2986 Neo-Liberalism is letting banks and corporations run roughshod over everything in cooperation with government - similar to fascism.
The founders of Neo-Conservatism were followers of Trotsky in their younger days, and have carried over much of the Bolshevik philosophy (the so-called communist countries practiced Bolshevism and not communism).
@@tominiowa2513 Tom in Iowa. I grew up in a communist country and left it over 13 years ago. Communism is real and it’s horrible. Trying to deny it and using the term “‘neoliberalism” deliberately to name things you don’t like is pretty much the point of Tolkien saying how the young generation forgets about the horrors of the past. Neo-liberalism is not the one letting banks and coorporations do whatever they want, it’s “coorporatism”. Fascism and Neo-Liberalism have nothing in common. But yeah. Nowadays left leaning kids just name anything they don’t like “fascism” or “neoliberalism”, which truly is an insult to those who really suffered from fascism or communism.
@@darthxandrum2986 You may have grown up in a country that labeled itself "communist", but its real political philosophy was that of the Bolshevism of Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, etc., and not the workers controlling the means of production as Marx suggested.
Similarly, neo-liberalism has nothing to do with traditional liberal values.
The three great destructive "ism's" of the 20th Century were all funded in their infancy by the same set of City of London/Wall Street bankers. Ever hear of "divide and conquer"?
Going against the grain here but I really wish he had written the New Shadow. It doesn't need to be a direct sequel. It could be an entirely self-contained story with a smaller scale than Lord of the Rings.
Plus, it could have been written as an affirmation of his worldview.
Pity he chose to dismiss the idea. I think it would have been amazing to see Tolkien's take on a thriller.
Don't let Amazon ANYWHERE NEAR THIS PLEASE GOD
Thanks for sharing this! It definitely seems to predict the future for the culture of humanity in a way. I think Tolkien was very wise in how he wrote his stories, and even though it was nice to hear more work from him, I understand why he stopped. Also had he lived longer, I wonder if he would have written anything else? We'll never know I suppose, but I'm thankful he wrote the books that he did.
I think Tolkien was warning us about something too many symbols coincide with our own world and his not to mention that our Tolkien has been trough a lot in his lifetime he probably wondered at one point why his buddies died in the Trench with him and he probably wondered about the Germans going trough exactly the same on the other side. If you think about all of it , his story makes sense and punches deep no matter how many decades we go at it...
If nothing we have from Tolkien something to keep to heart till the end of our days
Gandalf the White: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it.
"boredom of men with the good" Oh my God... He knew humans just too well. That is something I will never understand. I value peace and quite so much, yet so many people are constantly looking for thrill and danger for no reason.
People, men especially feel the need to be constantly fighting something or someone. It gives those kinds of people a measure of purpose in an existence that would otherwise be quite leisurely. Perhaps it’s evolution, perhaps it’s by design or perhaps it’s by corruption. However I noticed the same thing Tolkien noticed. Men without demons of their own to slay will summon new ones over enjoying the fruits of their father’s victories.
My theory is that it comes from a kind of shame or guilt. Questions like “why should I get to enjoy my life when my father’s, father’s bled and died for their’s?” or “what kind of man am I if I cannot be greater than those who came before me?” flood the mind. Soon enough the shame of peace becomes too much to bear.
@@My10thAccount It is very much possible. Funnily enough I never had any such thoughts or needs. I do not suffer from existencial crisis or need for adventure and I am a man. I think it has alot to do with the way my parents brought me up. They always explained to me the reality so I do not fall victim to temptations of bad things. I love my life where I do not have to fight anybody.
It’s amazing how he told this story, as it relates to us today. None remember the fights and struggles for freedom, and over time the young start wanting and demanding the evil rule their parents and grandparents fought so hard to defeat.
None remember the evil that was done during the fights and struggle for freedom and prefer to push it under the rug.
@@yzfool6639
Instead you prefer the all the sacrifice to be forgotten and the graves of those who died to give you peace spit on.
Depends which country your elders are from and which side they fought on. Many people's grandparents or great grandparents fought hard on the side of evil to defeat the good, and their contribution helped their side to win. Unfortunately most were heavily brainwashed and pressured and so they didn't really know it at the time. Now we have all had to live in the wreckage for all these decades since.
You did an awesome job in this. Your perspective is 100% spot on. I loved it.
Wow.. that Reading of the Sequel, had me Sucked in instantly.
If only JRR could have lived to complete it..!
I have loved LOTR from hearing the Hobbit, read to me at about 8yrs Old. ( it started me Reading for Pleasure, not as a Chore.) And have always wanted more..!!
Aged now 66 if it were Released tomorrow. I would fall upon it, akin to a Junkie.
Great Story, Great Video and have Subscribed..!
Cheers kim in Oz. 😎
The memory of evil facing the ignorance of those who have never known it. Tolkien captured in his work the eternal struggle of human nature with its inner evil. When we go without knowing evil and struggle for a long time, we forget the suffering and hardship, we long for conflict, confrontation. My questions are why can't we be contempt in peace? Why do we conflict to evolve? Why must we always forget...?
Because everyone after generation is reminded of previous ones glory so they seek it as well to prove themselves and then you have those who hate it as well, that's how everything starts like today as well.
Because live IS conflict
I feel like this was supposed to be the beginning of the Battle of all battles . Considering that after the war of the ring there wasn't much evil left , leads me to believe that "New shadow " refers to the return of Melkor.
No, that's still far, far off in the future.
Tolkien thought to middle earth as *our* earth and to his legendarium as a new mytology enriching English literature. He even mentioned in a letter that we currently live in the 7th age and that the fall of Sauron happened somewhere around 6000 BC. So no, the return of Melkor (i.e. the Apocalypse) is supposed to be in an indefinitly far future.
@@Sletty73 Which letter was that exactly in which Tolkien stated that? I'm curious.
Isn’t melkor already in everything? I feel like without the big bad to unite them all, humans and others would just turn on each other. He doesn’t need to be physically there for the world to be fucked up
@@indio4-215 it is mentioned in the recent book "nature of middle earth", which reports some previously unpublished comments by JRRT, including one comment mentioning that "we are now at approximately year 1970 of the seventh age". This topic has been also discussed in a recent video by a UA-cam creator (check "the tolkien lore" channel).
Hey, you know what you should do next for the series? Tolkien's journey. I think it would be wonderful this way so many more of the newer fans will get to know who the creator of our favorite world is. Much love, Cam.
I second that. The movie we have of Tolkien's life doesn't take a lot of his life into account, especially his deep religious rootedness in Christianity
Yes, yes.
Hey Nerd. With so many Tolkien channels suddenly popping up out of nowhere, just wanted to say thanks, for your genuine love of Tolkien and the lore of Middle Earth.
Hey, "Nerd", I wanted to say that your closing remarks are among your best (among many great comments and conclusions). Great work!
I can not express enough how much I love this channel. absolutely amazing, please don't stop making videos anytime soon.
Rian Johnson has been hired as writer/director of "The Last Hobbit"
thA g0aL iZ 2 sUbVeRt OdDyINnNs eXpCTayShiNs!
Oh God no if what he did to star wars is anything to go by
I legit applauded at the end of this video, so good. The last Jedi reference was perfect as well. Love you videos, been I’ve binging them since i discovered your channel 4 days ago lol
Thanks so much! So glad you found the channel and are enjoying it!
I loved your commentary at the end about sequels killing the original. The clips you used were perfect
Thak god he didn't write that sequel at all. It is too much, after such a great victory and a peace which gained after thousands of years.
It seems like Tolkien was keen to the actual cults that exist/ed during his time.
@@Manakuuchiha and it has always been around, possibly more so today than ever. The elite families of the earth surely serve a dark lord.
@@springpondnc They serve three dark lords; greed, lack of empathy and hunger for power. And these have sub-cults, the best known recent one being the Cult of Trump.
@@adamdavis1648 *Antifa/BLM
@@Manakuuchiha People were showing interest in teachings of the hermetic order of the golden dawn, and Aleister Crowley.
Love this, and I think it was well that Tolkien didn't write a sequel.
I would love to have read this. The concept sounds fantastic
I'm sure if Tolkien had continued the story we would've heard more about the lands to the east and south and further exploring what happened to the blue wizards. It would be an interesting addition to the story if the blue wizards became masters of their own and what such consequences would be for the rest of the peoples of Middle earth. Makes you wonder...
I wish Tolkein introduced the concept of MultiVerse to Middle Earth.
@@gunner4ever924 i am sorry to say this, but multiverse concept will take the essence of Tolkien's world away. It belongs to superhero universes.
@@blobloblob1627 not really, the reason why he canned the sequel was less about the Universe was expanding but because the story was becoming way too dark for LOTR, imagine if LOTR got a sequel in the same vain as Warhammer or Game of Thrones where the High Fantasy element is dying out, people would at best just like it but its not what LOTR as a series is suppose to be.
Love that he wrote about the ending and an afterwards. Tolkien is The Godfather of not only fantasy but any written book in the 20th century. His love for languages and history really shows in his writings I hope they do him justice on the new Amazon show but I doubt it.
While a sequel can enhance a story, it is certainly true they can also lessen a story if done improperly. I think Tolkien could have indeed done a fantastic continuation of Lord of the Rings and the morals it discussed are most assuredly relevant, but him not being invested in the story is understandable and I can respect his restraint of wanting to keep the story where it was. Some things just don’t need sequels even if the universe it has is big and deep.
Though I won’t lie, I still enjoyed the Star Wars sequels.
A Pike and Shot version of the Reunited Kingdom (with Pikemen, firearms and Gendarme like Gondorian Horsemen and Footment with Rohan updating their look to more of a Turco-Mongolo-Anglo-Saxon look and Arnor having the older Middle Earth look to contrast Godor and Rohan would be a sight.) set in an English Civil War Senario with some intervention of the dying Mythical elements being added in (maybe there is tension between the Dwarves, Arnor and the more developed Eastern Realms one thinking its far too industrial and losing its way by trying to become Isenguard and the other far too backwards clinging to the older ways of the long gone Elves, maybe tne Easterlings can intervine on the side of both the Kingdom and the Rebels doing some political manuvering, Orcs might be more grey in this world as Tolkien did want to make them less Evil) would be awesome but I can see why Tolkien canned it by page 13.
Stories enhanced or even equalled by sequels are exceedingly rare in print or film. I'm glad Tolkien opted not to pursue one.
Such a good set up I was hooked
Wow this would have been amazing to see in live action! And the way it is narrated in this video is wonderful!
This is more than just a review, it's a deep philosophical look into the true Spirit of life. Truly marvelous and inspiring that such words come from the mouth of a man. Perhaps there is hope for human kind after all. Thank you I am moved.
In every interview I have seen or read with Tolkien, he was clear that what he did was mythology, not allegory. Mythology is about what is within, allegory is about what is without. If he pursued a fourth age and new darkness, he would have made the switch to allegory and commentary on the objective world rather than the life course of the internal world. I have no doubt that there is a reason Tolkien was a contemporary of Jung. The ages of Tolkien's legendarium overlay with the ages of a single human lifetime and the internal battles, victories and defeats, that a person will experience if they make it to old age. I believe that is a perspective that should always be in the back of one's mind with engaging with Tolkien's work.
What is the "internal world"?
@@adamdavis1648 Your psyche
I agree with you with somethings, I would have liked to have the last battle with Morgoth.
Have Eru and the Valar involved and end the story Day Of Reckoning/John's Revelation style.
I would have loved to read The New Shadow. I agreed with the idea it was better that he had not written a sequel, but after hearing part of it here, I want to hear more !!
That small excerpt of the sequel seems more fascinating than plenty of thrillers and horrors put together.
God bless Tolkien and truth he wrote! It is truly amazing how much one can learn from "just a story". In my mind he took a grasp at the divine and and had more than a handful to share with this world. A true gift.
My opinion on this is torn, a part of me would want to read a full sequel because like Tolkien I to believe the rise of chaos is inevitable after a sustained period of order. The thing is Sauron was portrayed as the ultimate evil, the next evil would of been worse. Evil festers and plots in secrecy (think of the secret societies) and what came out of that would have revealed itself with a vengeance and from hearing these excerpts it seems men were not prepared to face whatever was coming. It isn't surprising he found this line of thought depressing, the process of writing the sequel would not have been a comfortable one especially if he hadn't worked out how men would have conquered that darkness.
It is pretty painful to think that no additional lore, history, or new stories from this work will ever bless us. There's always much to learn for most of us...but man, it's hard to digest sometimes when you realize you've reached the end of the journey.
We are the additional lore
We have the shire
I think an unpublished short but completed novel would've been really compelling and to me seems like Saelon would've had a redemption arc and Borlas's son the mysterious "Herumor". The cyclical nature of good and evil fits well in a fantasy setting and remnants of magical elements from the Third Age could still be found presumably (orcs, wargs and trolls scattered few and far in between, ruins of Mordor, Minis Morgul and Dol Guldor, giant spiders of and Elves of Mirkwood, Smaugs massive skeleton under the Long Lake and the Dwarves of Erebor, etc) within merely a century after Sauron's deafest.
Just finished listening to your podcast about Rhun. So fascinating! All your podcasts are! Makes me want to go and catch up on all the extra Tolkien writings.
When it comes to a sequel, just feels like there is so much potential. If this was a different literary family, some of the descendants might have picked up the pen (ala Tony Hillerman’s daughter continuing her fathers mystery series. And many other examples.)
I think Christopher would have been too exhausted, especially with all his efforts in compiling his fathers works. Nor do I imagine he would have even considered the possibility. And have a feeling that even the youngest Tolkien descendants would be hesitant in forging a continuation of any of JRR Tolkiens work. Too much pressure and expectation I would imagine. And it would probably feel daunting to connect and make a harmonious continuation of those story threads started by JRR Tolkien. Pressure to keep things the same and pressure to change and expand.
But after hearing about Rhun and another video you did, which mentioned the Southron’s coming under the fealty of Gondor, leaves so many intriguing possibilities! “
Of course I kind of understand why Tolkien preferred to leave his story unfinished.
Though his words about satiety with peace are chilling. It seems from this tale many were already forgetting the last conflict with Sauron.
As always thank you for such interesting and well summarized videos! Love it!
Beautiful video! Extraordinary! Thank you. I couldn't agree more, life is accepting things the way they are and learning to let things go. Tolkien knew this, he had something that nowadays is almost extinct, and that is principles.