Thank you so much for doing this video. I'm sick of $50-$70,000 supra's and BMWs being labeled as the "affordable car" comparisons on all the other channels
I so agree, though with the median car price being near $40k, it's hard to define affordable. Below median price? Under $50k? I think the group they selected makes a lot of sense, with all under $35k. I do wish they had done a better job of defining who they were intending this for. Mark may ne able to afford a high-performance weekend car, but that's an expensive extra most people won't have. Jack can get a little nutty about German cars, but at least he was clear that they had to be cars that worked on the street as a primary vehicle. The Elantra is mildly compromised as a daily driver, but not that much. It's still reasonably quiet driven normally, and the ride isn't so stiff as to be painful. With the DCT it's an even better daily driver. For me the ridiculous controls would drop the GTI out of contention. I like the styling and have always loved the size and boxy hatchback, but that's not enough. The Subaru is improved, and if I lived in a harsh climate the AWD might sell me on it, but it still looks like the previous generation, which looked horribly dated, too. That interior is nasty, the trunk is not great, and the infotainment is weak. It would be great if that engine and AWD system was under a better car, something like the Civic Si. The Honda would be very tempting because of its smoothness, ease of use, spaciousness, low price, and high gas mileage. As an everyday car it would be super appealing, if uncompetitive as a performance car. I also wish it came as a hatchback. Guess I have to get an Integra, or wait for the R. That may be a little too hardcore for daily use, but maybe Honda will solve that dilemma.
@Michael Charity you might feel triggered by my comment, but the nature of successful media is to be sociopathic and pander to what people want to see and hear, not necessarily what the creator wants to convey. I might hate the game, but I don't hate the players. Savage Geese choose specific formats despite that they see other channels finding success at what Jack and Mark find a little distasteful.
Having driven the N multiple times along with civics and the wrx, I really like the N, it's fast, the exhaust sounds incredible, and the interior is comfortable and clean. It's fun to drive but still practical.
@@almightykevinnn tbf I think the Si, GTI, and EN all have a similar 13 gallons. Which puts the EN on par with the WRX in terms of range per tank while being cheaper to fill
Bringing on Mr. Casey to start setting lap times is a brilliant idea. You're only solidifying your credibility & quality work of work by adding this crucial element to your reviews. Attentive film-making, drone shots, uninvasive musical scores, connections to press cars & brand reps, your own track to test on, your own merch, confidence in your own humor, and now a pro driver who can consistently set lap times to compare cars. I'm blown away, Mark, you've come so far from back when you were making videos on your FR-S. I wonder what's next, but I know it will be good, I wish you and your whole team the best. ✌🏼
You guys outdid yourselves with this multi-car review - really nice job in describing the technical characteristics and the relative merits (and disadvantages) of each vehicle. Would love to see a similar comparison in the future that includes the GR Corolla.
Yes! These comparison videos take a lot more work I imagine, but provide lots of value. I feel it's difficult to compare feedback of similarly rated cars between different videos. Having it done as comparison in a single video takes the guess work out of the picture. That's a real value add.
@@thepiratepenguin_ I can't imagine what a 1.6 liter, 3-cylinder turbo would sound like on a 10-hour road trip. But - I can imagine having fun with it at a race track.
@@gorgonismztruth1551 Maybe on a smooth track with perfect traction. But put it against a WRX on a mountain road with switchbacks, and the AWD system of the WRX will allow it to quickly pull any of these other cars. Even on a track, you take a driver who knows how to exploit the traction of that WRX and leverage the balance of the symmetrical drivetrain, and he’s going to put the others in his rearview mirror.
Despite coming off initially as an enthusiast car channel that just wants to drive cars around a track, I feel like I learn more about how cars are like to drive day-to-day better than almost anyone else. Great insight as far as interior ergonomics are concerned, long-term maintenance, and just working past the white paper you're getting from the manufacturer. Keep up the great work!
Yeah. Their VW and Audi bias is blatant despite being among the least reliable and most expensive to own cars they review. These guys are all about click bate and being courted by car manufacturers.
@@sharedknowledge6640maybe you’re the one who should pull their head out their ass and realize that both the brands you mentioned have been making very reliable cars in the past decade. Especially VW
VB WRX (+2022) are good for modding. The gearing improved so much, that it’s equally fast as an STi without having more ppweer than the previous gen AND using 4psi less of boost (12psi). Which is insane. Ugly cladding helps keep it clean and protected… my wife hit another car while exiting a parking spot with our volvo xc90 and messed up that area around the wheel. Wish I could just remove and replace. GTI might be im the middle, but VW has never really understood “fun”… just good engineering, because it tends to leas you to “fun” as a biproduct - but that is not always the case. One German that truly understands “fun” and “good engineering” was Albert Biermann. You can see that because he ruled the M-division (bmw) with an iron fist. Now it’s all reflected in the N cars. If the Kona N pops while shifting a gear, the N guys clap while the GTI engineers rush to fix the problem.
I was car shopping . Ended up getting the WRX. I LOVE it. Hyudai dealer was stuck on 10k over msrp. I really wanted the huuyndai but living in canada I think I made the right choice. Don't pay more if you live in a place with snow. The WRX is still an amazing car for daily.
I live in the PNW and also picked up a WRX. I love it. I am not sure how the testers got such crappy gas milage though. I get 29 MPG on the freeway and 21 city .
@TheKrisBunch that's almost the exact mileage that I get with my 23 WRX. I suspect if you sweep the tach to the redline every time you change gears, you'd get closer to the rated mpgs.
Got my ‘22 WRX prem in April and I’m so in love with it. After a month, I was fully in-tune with the car. Coming from a FWD ‘15 Ford Focus hatch. Besides skiing, I’ve never been more excited for winter in Buffalo NY because of the AWD, and ACTUAL HANDBRAKE.
@AlexStopper91 awesome! I found the engine breaks in around 10,000 miles, and the car feels smoother. Also, the summer performance tires that come stock are worthless in cold temperatures and less than worthless in snow, so I highly recommend winter tires. You probably know that already, but some people don't.
@@punkindrublic001 I am unaware of any publicly available video. I don’t have any local club. Not sure anyone would want to be identified. I likely do have photo of timing sheet, though. You can email me and I can see if I got something I can share.
@@punkindrublic001 trying to find somewhere to drop that for you. I have fuelly, too! you need to follow SD's "Official Auto Car Ride & Drive Events:"
I’ve been a Honda tuner for a long time and lately a Subaru fan the last 3 years. Always liked the GTi.. but I never thought I’d consider a Hyundai as a true Sports car. Great video guys! Keep up the awesome work. 👏🏻
@@42cuba... I don't know about their new cars but I know a few people with reliable 400hp tiburons the beta and delta engines are good engines also the main reason people say a "can is untuneable" has to do with how much hp a car was designed to make and little odd tuning things on old cars. Cylinder 4 cooling mod requires a tune, because the car can't tell when to pull timing if it can't look at mild knock reliably from cylinder 4 on old ej motors. Doesn't mean they're not good motors but people blow the transmissions and engines up often because they don't understand the compromises that the engineers made when designing the cars. The same thing applies to lower gears in old wrxs people modify them to make more power not understanding that the cars are specifically down tuned in 1st 2nd and 5th because they don't have the tires to get the powerdown and if they did they would much more easily damage the transmission and because the low rpm in fifth gear will damage the turbo so 1st and 2nd and fifth have reduced timing and fifth also has reduced boost.
I love that you had 4 manual trans cars to test against each other. And I'm left just appreciating that these 4 cars can have a unique identity in such a closely packed market. Great video!
My dad has a 2013 hyundai sonata and there's been so many recalls on it. Engine, seat belts, air bags, fuel system, etc. He's had the car for a little less than 8 years, and nearly every year since he finds out about a new recall.
@@factsmatter6980 Sure, all manufacturers have recalls but which have the MOST recalls? And which have the most ENGINE-RELATED recalls? On both accounts, consistently, it's HYUNDAI. No thanks. They've been making vehicles for decades yet they still haven't figured things out? Why bother with Hyundai at all.
I showed this video to my Nigerian prince penpal and he was so impressed he sent me enough money to become a Patron. Thanks for all the work you guys do, we know it runs you ragged and often doesn’t provide the returns it should but the automotive world would be less without the Geese.
Savage Geese videos always resonate so hard with me that I begin to feel like everything is right with the world. But, then my wife gets mad at me for leaving the toilet seat up or farting in bed, and I remember that the world is a cruel place where you will always be punished for having hope. The end.
Back during the 8th gen (fg2 and fa5) with the k20z3 engine, not only was it practical as hell, it sounded like a race car with that 8200 redline. That car was FUN
@@kevinkim9620 I think the K24Z7 from the 9th-gen Si is still in production. Would the Si be compelling if it still had that engine? It would be the only naturally aspirated car in its class (putting aside the two-door & now also 2.4L GR86), but obviously a 2.4L Si's fuel consumption would be horrible compared to the L15B7. The complaints of the 9th-gen Si, that the handling was a bit soft unless you got the HFP package, seem to have been fixed by Honda now and now the standard Si seems to handle pretty well.
@@fhowland Nah, new cars are worse. I've done the 2.0 turbo thing both old-school and modern twin-scroll, and I prefer the K20Z4 (FN2) by far. It's so much snappier and more fun for a street car! I could not care less that it's a little bit slower, the modern 2.0 twin-scroll was quicker but it simply was not more fun, not by any means [the engine sounded and felt like a blender, not nice at all :(].
I just purchased the VB WRX in the premium package. Mine is black so the cladding blends well and doesn’t look awful in my opinion. So fun to drive. No bias compared to the other offerings in this video.
Exactly. I hate the videos for the top .1% of people who can afford them. The reality is that this is what the majority of enthusiast are buying nowadays. It has to take the kids to school and be able to hit the track. This is just the reality for the 99.9% of us.
Agreed! The super car head-to-heads actually get boring after a while. You start to realize there's a lot of overexaggerating for the camera which makes it feel like you're watching a kid's show.
Idk about you but this channel doesnt seem to focus all that much on super cars. Very wide variety of cars. Though I tend to watch more of the affordable end than anything else. Rarely am I interested in high end cars (100k+).
There is much way too much hate for "poverty" specs or "poverty" cars. I'm far far more impressed when people show up with a fun sport value based car rather than a 6 figure flex. At the onset of Rona Feb/Mar 2020 I picked up an ND Miata ('16 RWD MT ST Sport w 45k miles) for $10k OTD. I have no payment have had no depreciation and it only required oil changes, new tires, and new fluids. It's literally the best money I've ever spent on a product and made the pandemic a blast by "isolating" driving in the rocky mountains.
That's great...some of us need more doors and a solid roof. I have a 19 wrx base and wish I got the limited instead. I've learned not to buy a base Subaru. Is possible, the base spec miata is a better spec'd base than the wrx. Or Mazda shrunk the (feature) gap btwn the base and grand touring trims.
@@ZeroFidelity Sean, it would be awesome for you to review car stereos. No one is doing this well, and your approach whether on your own or partnering with SG would make for very interesting content.
I bought my 2022wrx in February. Premium trim with some extras, including a sti short throw shifter. It is my daily. It is so fun to drive and i have absolutely no regrets. I love this car. The infotainment system blends in after a bit of owning it and does not bother me.
Infotainment took some getting used to on the Outback Wilderness, but I've grown to like it a lot, especially with the last update which moved the heated seats to their own buttons !
Proud owner of a 2015 MK7 GTI here. I like all of these cars, I like the entire class. Having been a teenager in the 70's, with today's fuel prices - it's deja vu all over again. This segment makes more sense than ever, particularly if it's your only car. I could have gone for a Mustang or Camaro in 2015, but I knew a situation like the one we are in now might come - though I had no idea it would be this severe. Cars like this always make sense. Oh, I said it before and it bears repeating: Savageese are the UA-cam equivalent of what Car & Driver Magazine was in its glory days. That's a huge compliment.
@Incomudro As soon as I read your C&D comment I realize you're absolutely correct. I started reading it in '87 and remained a loyal subscriber until too much of the old guard retired. Spot on comparison.
I don't know which part I like better, the 25 minute jab that every drag race video is (plus annoying ass music) or how much I love Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec sound. Pure art opening.
Once again Team SG knocks it out of the park with in-depth technical details that most car reviewers gloss over (or never mention) and feedback from an enthusiast & pro driver perspectives. This was a great comparison segment. Thank you for all your efforts.
Very much appreciate this comparison. I bought a '22 GTI S a couple of weeks ago, and have put 2k miles on it. Have to agree with the video, for the most part. Super livable, lots of fun when you want to have some, and a sense of purposeful refinement that belies the price. Lots of reviewers dig on the haptic steering wheel and dash controls - I've found spending a number of miles with them, I've gotten accustomed to them (and I'm a bit of a Luddite). No regrets....
Great review - really. For me, living where we receive 150+ inches of snow per year, the Subaru is the only choice. I wouldn't be able to get to work 30+ days per year with the other three cars. Incidentally, we love the unpainted black plastic here, because paint on many other cars gets blasted off by the salt and sand in the first winter. I had a BMW 340xi, and because of the way the back tires peak out, it had no paint on the sides of the back bumper after its first winter here. Most cars are like that, but the Subarus don't have that problem.
If you want a hatch get the GTI If you want awd get the WRX if you want a fun sedan get the Elantra N If you want a fun car that won’t give any problems get the SI
Thank you guys for the awesome review. You guys covered them perfectly with the time pressures. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate these videos but I do understand that the fun of these cars gets neutered with all the constraints you guys overcome.
I bought a 2011 Elantra with the six speed manual. I now have 263,000 miles on it. It does not use oil, runs very well. I’m happy with it. Two days ago, I bought a 2023 Elantra N with the 6 speed manual in the performance blue. Only 56 miles on it now.
@@classicdufferin8739 I have almost 23,000 on the 2023 Elantra. No problems at all, so far. The 2011 Elantra I still going strong. The a/c quit working though 🥵269,000 on it now. Just put front pads and rotors on it.
Awesome review. 6 mos later we know how underated the WRX is, consecutively testing faster than a stock STI. Mild tune and the WRX now with it's upgraded stable suspension is loads of fun for mid $30k. I personally tested a few cars and considered S3 along with model R but find this to be a very good handler. Coming from e92.
You're 100% correct. I recently got myself a VB. I liked the older WRX's but hated the way they drove. They felt like you had to wring them out to get the power to be competitive. The stock VB has one of the most linear feeling power delivery curves I've ever felt. Even better than the older 5.7's from GM that had a flat torque curve similar to the WRX. The best part about the VB is it's ability to go off the pavement. Any of these other cars meet the dirt; they have no change competing against the WRX. Now people are getting 70-80hp gains with an intake, exhaust, and a tune. You're talking 350hp for under $1500. That 350hp puts the car into a completely different bracket. I won't burn my warranty up, but damn it's so tempting.
@@phorkit5717 No kidding. I appreciate the warranty myself but this car is so tempting to tune. Haven't decided yet which way I'm going... The lifted bad ass turbo crosstrek or wider wheels lowered and aero dynamics. Guess staying stock for now ain't too bad.
@@HarryTwatter much smoother than I thought it would be. Personally I didn’t like the seats or the plastic grab handle in the middle but the N is a joy to drive.
@@HarryTwatter Totally liveable if you adjust it to the mild setting. If you put in N mode, which is the most intense mode, you will lose some fillings.
Love this. This is the group of cars that's most relevant in my life and kind of what really got me into cars in the first place (the last gen at least). Love the break down. They all really have their own place and there's a solid place for each one in the market I feel. And kudos to these automakers for keeping affordable enthusiast cars alive.
Never thought I would be a wrx owner, but after learning a bit about the new platform and taking a test drive, I was sold. Also available for under msrp. Not only as a stock daily driver is it wonderful, but it seems to be the best of this bunch for basic mods. It’s like Subaru created this wrx for basic tuning while keeping reliability.
The fact that we were able to buy one at or below MSRP really sealed the deal with me. Im half way through the break in and can't wait to fully test it out.
@@Gabriel-vj1cf - it’s been great to us so far. We had a 2003 Evo 8 new back in the day and three Galant VR4s. I get the Evo vibes with this wrx. The fact this new WRX is only running 12ish psi stock boost while all the other turbo/small displacement cars in its segment are running 20+ stock, really says a lot. Enjoy!!
The GTI is hands down the most tuneable for the least amount of mods done. And holds up to the power the best. Air intake, turbo inlet, down pipe, stage 1 engine and trans tune. Go from 240 HP to 360-400 hp for about $3,000
Another highlight in your feature career. Yesterday I saw a video of a comparison between affordable sports cars and this is on par! Great stuff on a Friday. Thanks SG
Driving an i30N FL I can really say that Hyundai has managed to make these cars handle exceptionally well. The first time I planted the gas pedal in a turn I nearly drove into the inside curb, because I was expecting the car to start understeering like my old first gen Leon Cupra R, but it did none of that; the handling is incredibly neutral, despite being FWD and front heavy, it feels like the car wants to push over all four tires evenly and even if you manage to let the rear slip, a slight correction is all you need to keep the car from spinning out, never making you feel like its not responding to your steering input.
@@stephenkim589 nah hell no. It’s ugly doesn’t look retro at all. I still own my 95 integra gsr that’s fully built n this new si is horrible. Even the new type r still iffy to me.
This comparo ushers in a new era of SG greatness! So well done and entertaining. Just make every future video a comparo - I'm sure it's no more difficult to do than a single car review. I mean, you've already got the cameras rolling... Proud to be a SG Patreon supporter!
SO glad you guys actually state your opinion and rank the cars! Too many other reviewers put titles on their videos that suggest a comparison..."Is the new GTI better than the Civic SI?" or "X brand vs. Y brand", but then completely wimp out in the video, and instead say something like "Which do you think is the better vehicle...leave your opinion in the comments." WTF? (I'm looking at YOU Raiti's Rides). Savage geese are much more like the great review hallmarks like Car and Driver. You guys don't pull punches and state what you honestly think. Well Done!
Jack is on point with the ratings. I don't think most people who are in the market for these cars have a dedicated sports car in addition to their daily, so Mark's take is not resonating with me this time. Overall, great job as always.
I agree that most shoppers of these cars are shopping for their one and only car. I was such a shopper and for a long time my MK7 GTI was my only car. However, I'm still glad Mark offered a different opinion. His ratings offer a different perspective that results in a more comprehensive review. Now that I also have an NA Miata, I especially appreciate the refinement the GTI offers.
@@JaRW7 Jack had a GTI at one point along with his C7. He replaced the GTI with the new BRZ, which is maybe $5k more than these cars. TheTopher (another car UA-camr) recently bought his new Civic Si and he has at least 1 weekend car.
@@JaRW7 ah it depends. I’m looking for a weekend car to race but I can’t afford to pay 50k for one. So this is the limited market I’m in. I have my Durango for long road trip n if I need to tow anything. N then I have my Jetta for work travel.
Excellent video guys, I enjoyed it. My top pick would be the Civic. There's absolutely no way to track a normal car where I live (or at the least it would be very costly I think) so my focus is more on daily fun driving so that fits the bill with it also having imo the nicest interior.
Always a excellent review. I bought the WRX. I never felt comfortable with my wife driving the ND2 Miata. For her it was the size and visibility that’s makes her feel comfortable. My wife loves the looks of it and I’m really glad because I got her to marry me also. I still think the ND2 is the perfect street toy btw.
It looks like Hyundai is really stepping up their game. I know the stereotype they carry is going to be hard to get rid of, but if they keep outperforming their competition in performance and price, that would change in the future! Never had a Hyundai and currently have a WRX, but the stuff they've been putting out has been really intriguing.
@roboticvenom1935 Did Subaru just like fire all there Engineers from 99-2014 or so? They really are just making them generic af and not putting too much special into it. It needs that umf that other's have had. Or at least transfer the Japanese umf into American umf. Seems like we are lately getting the short end of the stick lately!
Albert Biermann (just retired but still consulting Hyundai) is the man probably behind the best cars ever made, the BMW M’s of the 90’s-00’s. He worked with Hyundai/Genesis the last 7 years. The N cars along with G70 are his works and the reason Hyundai N and Genesis have risen to being great cars.
@@blzaner Genesis are super dope. Especially their SUV's that are no fixable if they get in a fender bender by the way they are made into the car grooves.
I've never owned a sporty Hyundai and the last one we owned was a 2011. However it is literally the worst brand I've ever had. I've had VW,Mini,Ford,Subaru, Dodge, Toyota, etc. and the only two I would never own again are that and the Mini. The hyundai had insane amounts of issues I'd never experienced with any car. interior quality was trash, drive-ability was trash, and MPG was bad even for an SUV. The only place that works on hyundai's in my town of 800K people is the stealership. They always treated us horribly rude and never liked that I knew how cars worked and would call BS when they'd slap fake crap on.
Ok ok... This vid is amazing. I love this shootout and track timings with the pro. How about doing a dedicated "affordable" track car 2-door shootout, GR86, Miata, Camaro SS 1LE, Mustang GT:PP, Z, Supra. That would be as the kids say, 🔥.
The Supra is in no way affordable. The Z is borderline, but in base trim could compete, though its omissions will hurt it. The rest would be fun to compare if they could get them similarly equipped, which is no small thing.
Having owned a 19 SS 1LE....driven a few NDs, and owned a first gen 86....the SS 1LE will destroy everything on that list for track use. It has fantastic inputs and the limit is absurdly high. The shifter and clutch feel is perfect, way better than the Miata IMO. The steering is really good, really sharp/direct and has good feel, the chassis is amazing, the brakes are insane. It's amazing how well it hides its weight/size. It's only real let down is visibility and the running costs suck. Big heavy car, needs huge ass tires, huge brakes etc. It gets good fuel economy for what it is (a friggin huge V8)....I regularly got 19mpg and drove it like an asshole....but I'd cringe paying current gas prices. Tires are $2k and last maybe 20-30k miles if you're lucky on the street. Staggered set up, so can only rotate tires left to right. Oil changes are expensive if you don't do it yourself, 10qts of oil. And then I'd imagine brake parts would be pricey, enormous rotors and what not. It's an "affordable" entry..but you'd need deep pockets to regularly track it compared to a Miata or GR86.
I think you nailed it with making the review of these cars even. Every car had a manual. There was no “manual vs auto” comparison. They all were manual, which made it a fair comparison. This is something so many car reviewers do wrong. They don’t make proper comparisons when reviewing multiple cars at once. Good job in this.
It no doubt took quite a lot of work with the brand reps to get all four of these similarly equipped cars at the same time. I'm very impressed by the work put into the video. Good job, guys.
The Elantra N is so much fun to drive and the cabin noise isn’t that bad even on long highway drives. Also the stock exhaust sound is brilliant 🤌 like they say, if you want fun over an easy drive that car is no question the best
@@mharro88 mostly the flooring and door panels, but anywhere that doesn't have any deadening would help slightly. To do it properly, you need to pretty much tear out the interior to the bare chassis metal. Then put layers of different materials. It could add up to 100 pound to the weight of the car tho (for a proper installation), just something to keep it mind. But if you plan on keeping it for long, I'd say it's worth trying. Maybe do sections at a time, like doors and trunk area first, then the main body. It's time and labor intense for diy tho.
Always been a subaru driver, picked up my 2022 WRX Premium WR Blue, and let me tell you it is refined. Not as up to date as the GTI, but certainly nice and solid. Performance is great, and being AWD it is most practical for me as a daily. Loved the comparisons and glad to see these manual transmissions still in the game!
@@freework24 subaru has the history and the heritage, the elantra is faster but for daily use in this climate its certainly the better car for me. No need for this comment lol all about the rally culture!
@@freework24none of these cars are that fast, so I think the one that fits the specific persons wants and needs is the best not which one is quickest. You’ll still get gapped in the Elantra by anything decently fast so who cares? The wrx is much better in poor road conditions, it’s funner to chuck around cause of the awd, it’s more comfortable, and the tiny straight line advantage of the Elantra doesn’t even matter. You’ll still get gapped by every Tesla or ev out there lol
I think when you get used to the infotainment on the GTI (or get the more base level gear?) - once you get rid of these crappy all season tires, and preferably move up to the DSG, it's a no-brainer. It's by far the most practical car as I have a Mark 7 and you can literally stick two full size mountain bikes in the back with the front wheel off. It's an obscure example of how much room there is but it is amazing what you can stuff back there. That, and the level of refinement, the fun to drive factor, an engine that's exceedingly easy to get extra power from for cheap - not to mention the fact they have a ridiculous aftermarket - and if you're not a maniac with the throttle, these cars give incredible fuel mileage and it's easy to get mid to high 30s in highway fuel mileage. They're just an exceptional overall package. They've had many, many years to fine-tune it, and it shows. The only real drawback is unlike the other three, if you're not fastidious with your maintenance it will bite you in the ass like any German car. Keep it in good running order and follow the proper protocol and you'll never want to sell it. And I'm speaking from experience having had seven gti's in pretty much every rendition except Mk2.
I've got a MK7 GTI too. I put my road bike in the hatch once or twice a week. The ability to do that makes the MK8 my only real choice for my next vehicel should I stay in this segment. And yeah, I can get over 30mpg's in mixed driving here in central NJ if I go easy on it. I can get a good 36mpg's on the highway if I set cruise control to 68mph. Now more than ever, my GTI makes so much sense.
I got 2023 VW GTI. All the negative reviews about infotainment total BS. I found it no issues whatsoever using. GTI well made car, driving dynamics unmatched to any other car in this segment. Beautiful machine. I love it. I agree it’s all about how you take care of your care dictate the life of your car. It doesn’t matter what car.
This was a great video! Thanks for putting it together for us to enjoy! Have a deposit on a rally blue WRX in sport-tech trim on the way... the cladding's actually grown on me since seeing it in person, and it's going to be a great 4-season daily driver here in Ontario. Looking forward to getting flamed for putting a previous gen STI wing on it 😄
I'm in Toronto. Mines coming in July. World rally blue. Sport tech. Can't wait. Did these guys mention what the real world HP is? I think they said all the cars are underrated
I'm inline with Mark's mindset. I have a 981 Cayman for fun and needed a fun daily. I got the Civic Si. Second choice would have been the GTI. Great video!
for me after driving all 4 the Elantra N was the pick for me easily I didn't find that car be that harsh at all and it just felt so much more fun to drive , the gti would be my second choice and ive owned 3 of them but that infotainment system was a deal braker I hated it so bad I didn't even want to drive the car anymore.
Yeah for a car you're gonna drive daily, I feel like the infotainment of the GTI would have you loathing it within a few weeks. So annoying to be fighting a system that shouldn't be complicated in the first place, not to mention potentially dangerous....takes your attention away from driving. Hopefully the MK8.5 or whatever they call it will go back...the GTI is basically the perfect all rounder.
Great test! Goes so show by your final rankings what people value will dictate your choice at that 30k mark. Thank you for acknowledging the tire width and compound differences….very few reviewers call attention and understand just how important that is. Owners of all four vehicles will more than likely change rims, widths, and compounds throughout ownership 👍
Went to a couple stealers (dealers) to check out the Elantra N and Civic Si. They wanted $8k over the top for the Elantra N and $4k over MSRP for the Si. The Si had almost every conceivable HPD accessory added to it, which put the total at almost $40K! No thank you.
I've checked at least 20 dealers, no Si no GTI no WRX no N products. They're all sold out. Even with these crazy markups. This dealership system needs to go down, needs to go down fast. On the other hand; I've a Ford Maverick order in place, and it's been 6 months, not a single email or news about it's build date 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️ So that's that.
I bought a Civic SI for a commuter car and I am glad you felt it was the best for that. Fun to drive, excellent gas mileage, it feels quick even though it was the slowest of the group. Excellent presentation as always.
Great review/comparison. I shopoed all these cars and included the Civic R , the Acura Integra type S and the Volkswagen R. The absolute best bang for buck option was the Golf GTI S with DSG at 33.2 k. Second only to the Golf R in speed and the Civic SI in mpg.
When you guys tested the GTI I said exactly that. The car would come with all seasons and the 200tw tires would hide a lot of under steer and I was told I was idiot in not so many terms. Lap times don’t lie and the best improvement anyone can make to a car is the tires.
The cars biggest issue/ the biggest difference other than over all levels of grip versus the re71r is corner exit. The car simply struggles powering out with all seasons. The p zeros are also a exceptionally unsticky tire. I think they were 400-600 treadwear
I find it remarkable they managed to turn a very ordinary economy compact into such a serious performance car. The investment must have been enormous. I guess they're serious about establishing the cred of the N sub-brand.
@@markmiller3279 I think they planned the performance aspect of the car right in the beginning with the chassis design. It does share the platform with the i30 and the veloster, first two cars with the special N treatment. They just have to adapt and refine them for the elantra n and kona n. A good chassis can go a long way.
Great video! I currently am sitting at about 9k miles on my ‘22 GTI S DSG… I use it to work out of and take kids to and from school drop off/pick up line etc and my global average across all 9k miles is 29.5mpg! Hooning, highway and AC idle for hours a day included! I’m getting 35.5 at 80mph on I-65 as an average with 39-40mpg in the winter as the high bar on 87 octane which is what she’s designed to run with the new higher pressure direct injection system! To say I’m pleased for $31k in having a sub 5second 0-60 car that gets 30mpg average on ‘87 is a major understatement!
Thank you guys for making this video! Absolutely the most beneficial video I've seen from anybody for affordable performance cars. All points were touched on.
This video was so well done gentlemen. Thank you for putting in the extra effort as always! The Elantra N has to be the best…it’s a first gen. It’s that dialed and really doesn’t sacrifice anything if you buy it as advertised. The other cars have had decades of development!
Had a Golf3 in the 1990s after owning an ‘88 Jetta. Both manual. The Golf was more “refined” but felt less “dangerous” once in montion. My buddy’s GTI felt the best of both - higher end and faster to the danger zone. Loved cruising in on I-15 from Salt Lake to Ogden in 30 minutes💨 💨 💨
The Mk7.5 infotainment was the perfect balance of physical controls and touchscreen controls imo. They should have carried it right over into the Mk8 without changing a thing.
Mark, thanks for talking honestly about the armrests in the Subaru. I had the same problem in my wife's 2010 Forester, and it's a major ergonomic issue on long trips.
Awesome video. It's perfect for me right now. It's actually the first time I've seen you guys. I'm about to see much more. Thumbs up and following. I loved how you guys broke those cars down. P.s. That Elantra N though... I never thought I'd be thinking about a Hyundai.
While I'm glad Honda has a sub $30k option it'd be nice if they offered a higher performance version that slots between the Si and Type R. It'd be interesting to see how a ~$32-33k Si-R would compares performance-wise to these other cars.
They could do a HPD model with some bolt-ons, a tune, and the missing features from the CA spec. I think the Integra should of been that in-between model. If they had given it the Accord's 2L and manual as standard, it would compete with the GTI.
@@DragonKnightX12 adding some HPD's would just be minor though, at that point would get dusted by GTI, esp if the buyer is ok with some basic aftermarket mods.. "if they just given accord 2L and manual" sounds like someone who does not work in the auto industry! mate the price would BALOON if it had that powerplant and would require significant changes for the vehicle to handle it
@@roboticvenom1935 Who said had to compete with the GTI? That’s CTR territory. The Si should be around the performance of the GLI or GR 86. Sounds like someone is trying to be a internet expert. Not really. They already got the means to do it, and the Integra is already at the price range where everyone offers a bigger engine.
Thanks Mark, for making the adult choice with the Civic Si. With gas prices beyond ludicrous these days, mileage matters, and what good is having a manual if the shifter's not a joy to use? Bummer about the clutch. A smooth engagement with a wide friction zone is a beautiful thing.
I was fortunate enough to have driven a late 90s/early 2000's Accord and can't tell you enough about how smooth and easy to drive it was. Honda's back in the day were so buttery smooth that it almost felt like you were riding a cloud. From what I hear, modern Honda manuals just don't feel as good unless you're driving a Type R.
If I had the money for an SI, I would just but an older Honda like an Accord 6mt or that Civic coupe from last gen. Size matters. But I will admit that I like the interior design.
I’m as big a Si fan as anyone. Having owned a brand new 00 back in the hayday. I have seat time in the new 22 and while I love the layout, gas mileage, Bose stereo, etc….the performance is horrendous in 2022. A stock 06 Si would demolish the new Si. And that’s sad.
I love the N buttons with custom dampers/exhaust/steering/LSD/engine/ESC/rev match. It works really well to be driving normal and hit the button for an onramp or corner then go back to normal. The car is really very nice in normal mode. If you value a splash of sport in your cars, you will be fine in the N. Recently did 10 hour/day roadtrip and Im a fat guy age 45.
I bought a 2022 Oryx White SE 6-Speed about 2 months ago and it’s absolutely fantastic in every way - the infotainment and Haptic Touch buttons is something that completely grows on you and now whenever I drive another car it feels prehistoric with all of the buttons - please don’t dismiss this car before you go to the dealer and spend an hour with it! It’s awesome and I’m truly happy with my purchase.
Just got a 2024 GTI SE in moonstone gray, today on the highway I got 38 mpg and saw 39 a few times! ONLY THE GERMANS use ultra high strength steel. It’s a tank!
Just hit 23,000kms on the poverty spec ‘22 WRX and so far so good. Gas mileage sucks. Even when trying to get the best mileage it can. Can get the same mileage with a 5.0L V8 mustang gt. The stock tires have performed beyond expectations though they are down to under 4/32. They wear relatively fast but the trade off is performance. My winter tires are at 7/32 after one season, because, well, this car is fun in the winter… Have an appointment at the dealership to deal with a clicking front strut mount and a fuel gauge sending unit that now registers max 3/4 when full and min 1/4 when empty. Should be warranty so all good…thus far.
THE most relevant video ever on the channel, this is what, as a wild ass guess, 70% of your viewers are either in the market for or contemplating. Not to mention the production value and technical insights are at a professional level, just as it has been for years, and we just expect it at this point. It’s even enough to forgive the next dozen Porsche unobtainiummobilereviewbideos that will inevitably show up next week.
The GTI is still too soft. It needs solid bushings in key suspension areas vs the bushings that have voids and compliance built in. The solid bushings add feel/firmness w/o the harshness most ppl think they do.
I ran a 13.1 in the 1/4 mile with the DCT Elantra N. The other 3 won’t come anywhere close to that. The M/T is tougher to launch no doubt, but the DCT is a different animal.
@@billydee1879 lmao, I bet you believe I’m not a man because I didn’t choose the manual version too. Wouldn’t be surprised if you drive a Dodge Charger, but it’s ok to drive an automatic in one of those. It’s not 1960 anymore, new automatics are becoming the more powerful option.
@@sleeper.simulant7327 Dude what? It ALREADY mops the floor with the WRX. They don't need to add AWD to it. Just like the Civic Type R mops the floor with the STi and pretty much any other AWD performance car in its price range. The Elantra N doesn't need the complexity and cost of AWD unless they want to give it a significant power upgrade, which would end up putting it in a higher price bracket. The car is fine as is.
This review came at a really important time for me as I try and decide between these cars. As some one who has only really driven a manual trans on his dads rust bucket Jetta, I'm a bit apprehensive on buying a brand new car with 3 pedals. But this was very helpful! Keep up the great work!
You’ll get the hang of it in a few days. I drove a brand new si home without any experience, sketchy as hell and stalled out a few times, but by the end of the week I was fine. Nervous still, but fine lol
You'll learn. Evwryone used to drive manuals, and they managed. However, don't feel like you have to to get more out of a car. The best autoboxes are superb and almost always give better 0-60 times and better gas mileage. They're also much more pleasant in stop-and-go traffic, of you have a tough commute. The Hyundai's DCT has been much praised, and I'd buy it every time over a fairly poor manual.
WOW! With all sincerity, THANK YOU for the best affordable performance car review I’ve seen thus far! These are the four cars I’m considering for my daily drive/track day car. I’m so happy you used affordable cars. I hate how all the popular 90’s and early 2000’s icons have been turned into $60K+ “supercars”. These four vehicles represent that target tuner audience and you nailed the comparison. You have provided potential buyers with great information to make a decision on the car that’s right for them. Again, thank you and keep up the great videos!
Great video guys just an awesome round up of realistic cars the everyday driver can afford. By far the best Auto channel on UA-cam. The cinematography and flow of the review is what sets you apart from the rest. I pretty much look here and throttle house for my car reviews. The let’s check the sun visor guys have lost their way, stuck in clique corner over and over…..Once again guys awesome review, massive thumbs up 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏
Best all around car is the SI. Best Track Car is the Elantra N. Best all-weather car is the WRX. Best refined car is the GTI. Can't go wrong with any of them. Just pick the one that's the best fit for your lifestyle. Personally, I'd pick the SI for a daily, and have a GR86 as my weekend warrior.
I find it most interesting how for a similar price a collection of similar sized cars for the same purpose with a very similar powertrain layout diverge so vastly in execution and capability. The variety and option of these cars in todays world is a great thing!
Great content as always guys. You are my go-to for legit and non-biased car reviews. Currently own an Elantra N manual and I can agree with all your points. Had a Veloster N DCT before and I sort of wish I would have stayed with the DCT. The sacrifices in daily road driving are starting to wear on me a little though. Guess I am just getting old. I will say there are a few of us doing HPDE and autocross and none of us have had to change or upgrade anything on the car, other than changing oil before/after events and tires. No overheating, no brake fade. It’s been holding up very well. I will honestly admit that if VW had not completely shit showed the infotainment system I would probably be in a Mk8 Golf R. Any possibility of a new Audi RS3 review soon?
I have an N DCT and I have no problem daily driving it. Maryland has great roads though so the rigidity never becomes a factor. Plus you can always throw it in eco and the dampers help a ton.
@@enkymion We're you able to find a dealer that wasn't marking up over MSRP? I've only found one that's over an hour away (Danbury) from me but they are charging a dealer fee of $1299 since there is no limit in this state on dealer fees....
I'd only seen Mr Geese through some snippets on the straight pipes. This was my first watch and it was awesome. Jack was an unexpected surprise and dang what a pro. Both great presenters, and I'm now subscribed!
Thank you so much for doing this video. I'm sick of $50-$70,000 supra's and BMWs being labeled as the "affordable car" comparisons on all the other channels
Well do you want a sports car or an economy car? Sounds like a you problem
@Sohc_Vtec when he said he was watching videos of Supra’s and BMW’s you clown. Reread his comment if you’re struggling so much.
@Sohc_Vtec oh is the Civic and WRX super high performance cars to you? 🤣 goofy man….goofy…. They’re economy cars bud
@Sohc_Vtec oh is the Civic and WRX super high performance cars to you? 🤣 goofy man….goofy…. They’re economy cars bud
I so agree, though with the median car price being near $40k, it's hard to define affordable. Below median price? Under $50k? I think the group they selected makes a lot of sense, with all under $35k. I do wish they had done a better job of defining who they were intending this for. Mark may ne able to afford a high-performance weekend car, but that's an expensive extra most people won't have. Jack can get a little nutty about German cars, but at least he was clear that they had to be cars that worked on the street as a primary vehicle.
The Elantra is mildly compromised as a daily driver, but not that much. It's still reasonably quiet driven normally, and the ride isn't so stiff as to be painful. With the DCT it's an even better daily driver. For me the ridiculous controls would drop the GTI out of contention. I like the styling and have always loved the size and boxy hatchback, but that's not enough. The Subaru is improved, and if I lived in a harsh climate the AWD might sell me on it, but it still looks like the previous generation, which looked horribly dated, too. That interior is nasty, the trunk is not great, and the infotainment is weak. It would be great if that engine and AWD system was under a better car, something like the Civic Si. The Honda would be very tempting because of its smoothness, ease of use, spaciousness, low price, and high gas mileage. As an everyday car it would be super appealing, if uncompetitive as a performance car. I also wish it came as a hatchback. Guess I have to get an Integra, or wait for the R. That may be a little too hardcore for daily use, but maybe Honda will solve that dilemma.
That call out to every other car comparison channel was glorious
It's also a call out to viewers who are basic enough to make those videos popular.
@Michael Charity you might feel triggered by my comment, but the nature of successful media is to be sociopathic and pander to what people want to see and hear, not necessarily what the creator wants to convey. I might hate the game, but I don't hate the players. Savage Geese choose specific formats despite that they see other channels finding success at what Jack and Mark find a little distasteful.
I immediately thought of carwow
@Michael Charity weird flex but okay.
@Michael Charity you confuse what people want versus what people will tolerate.
The Gran Turismo nostalgia baked in 😭
@Rapunzel ♪ What the fuck?
OMG Greg is awesome to see you here. Love your channel!
Finally it has arrived...
ua-cam.com/video/MNtCawGYGs4/v-deo.html
Exactly what I thought. I miss those days where I’d do endurance races in GT3 all night.
@@drummeralex9198 Being a car enthusiast is like being a power-tool enthusiast.
Having driven the N multiple times along with civics and the wrx, I really like the N, it's fast, the exhaust sounds incredible, and the interior is comfortable and clean. It's fun to drive but still practical.
This is how I sum it up as well. It’s just fun and practical and it works for me as a daily driver.
@@stabshimi976 only downside is the small gas tank I would say imo
@@almightykevinnn tbf I think the Si, GTI, and EN all have a similar 13 gallons. Which puts the EN on par with the WRX in terms of range per tank while being cheaper to fill
@@Courtesyflush52 even tho it’s 93 ?
@@almightykevinnn I think the WRX and EN both recommend 91 as per the manuals/ gas caps
Bringing on Mr. Casey to start setting lap times is a brilliant idea.
You're only solidifying your credibility & quality work of work by adding this crucial element to your reviews.
Attentive film-making, drone shots, uninvasive musical scores, connections to press cars & brand reps, your own track to test on, your own merch, confidence in your own humor, and now a pro driver who can consistently set lap times to compare cars.
I'm blown away, Mark, you've come so far from back when you were making videos on your FR-S. I wonder what's next, but I know it will be good, I wish you and your whole team the best. ✌🏼
You guys outdid yourselves with this multi-car review - really nice job in describing the technical characteristics and the relative merits (and disadvantages) of each vehicle. Would love to see a similar comparison in the future that includes the GR Corolla.
A Golf R, new Civic Type R, and GR Corolla comparison would be fantastic.
Yes! These comparison videos take a lot more work I imagine, but provide lots of value. I feel it's difficult to compare feedback of similarly rated cars between different videos. Having it done as comparison in a single video takes the guess work out of the picture. That's a real value add.
the CIVIC is t best looking ... ELANTRA N is the best performer ...
@@thepiratepenguin_ I can't imagine what a 1.6 liter, 3-cylinder turbo would sound like on a 10-hour road trip.
But - I can imagine having fun with it at a race track.
@@gorgonismztruth1551 Maybe on a smooth track with perfect traction. But put it against a WRX on a mountain road with switchbacks, and the AWD system of the WRX will allow it to quickly pull any of these other cars.
Even on a track, you take a driver who knows how to exploit the traction of that WRX and leverage the balance of the symmetrical drivetrain, and he’s going to put the others in his rearview mirror.
Despite coming off initially as an enthusiast car channel that just wants to drive cars around a track, I feel like I learn more about how cars are like to drive day-to-day better than almost anyone else. Great insight as far as interior ergonomics are concerned, long-term maintenance, and just working past the white paper you're getting from the manufacturer. Keep up the great work!
There are clear biases / badge snobbery in their videos. Just be aware, SG is hardly impartial and doesn't try to be.
@@dannnsss8034 What is the badge snobbery you're talking about? I know they have their preferences but I am seemingly unfamiliar with their snobbery.
Yeah. Their VW and Audi bias is blatant despite being among the least reliable and most expensive to own cars they review. These guys are all about click bate and being courted by car manufacturers.
@@sharedknowledge6640maybe you’re the one who should pull their head out their ass and realize that both the brands you mentioned have been making very reliable cars in the past decade. Especially VW
This is by far the best car review channel on UA-cam in my opinion
It's honest about all the good and bad, which is what we actually need
SG reminds me of Car and Driver magazine back in the 80s and 90s. They would call out crappy cars and poor features
The long balls comment at around 3:50 😂
VB WRX (+2022) are good for modding. The gearing improved so much, that it’s equally fast as an STi without having more ppweer than the previous gen AND using 4psi less of boost (12psi). Which is insane. Ugly cladding helps keep it clean and protected… my wife hit another car while exiting a parking spot with our volvo xc90 and messed up that area around the wheel. Wish I could just remove and replace.
GTI might be im the middle, but VW has never really understood “fun”… just good engineering, because it tends to leas you to “fun” as a biproduct - but that is not always the case.
One German that truly understands “fun” and “good engineering” was Albert Biermann. You can see that because he ruled the M-division (bmw) with an iron fist. Now it’s all reflected in the N cars. If the Kona N pops while shifting a gear, the N guys clap while the GTI engineers rush to fix the problem.
I was car shopping . Ended up getting the WRX. I LOVE it. Hyudai dealer was stuck on 10k over msrp. I really wanted the huuyndai but living in canada I think I made the right choice. Don't pay more if you live in a place with snow. The WRX is still an amazing car for daily.
I live in the PNW and also picked up a WRX. I love it. I am not sure how the testers got such crappy gas milage though. I get 29 MPG on the freeway and 21 city .
@TheKrisBunch that's almost the exact mileage that I get with my 23 WRX. I suspect if you sweep the tach to the redline every time you change gears, you'd get closer to the rated mpgs.
@@Madman6505 I actually got 32 MPG on the freeway the other day.
Got my ‘22 WRX prem in April and I’m so in love with it. After a month, I was fully in-tune with the car. Coming from a FWD ‘15 Ford Focus hatch.
Besides skiing, I’ve never been more excited for winter in Buffalo NY because of the AWD, and ACTUAL HANDBRAKE.
@AlexStopper91 awesome! I found the engine breaks in around 10,000 miles, and the car feels smoother. Also, the summer performance tires that come stock are worthless in cold temperatures and less than worthless in snow, so I highly recommend winter tires. You probably know that already, but some people don't.
The winner meets a rental Altima at 6pm for a SUDDEN DEATH final round of this comparison.
...nahhh, sudden death matches happen at midnight on a low traffic highway...6pm is the pre-match trash talking
The Elantra N drives like a proper sports car. i cannot believe how well they nailed it with this car. The steering is just chef's kiss 👌
The Elantra N beat all similar cars on autocross track with multiple drivers switching cars constantly. Including BMW M240 I, GR 86, Subaru WRX, MX-5.
@@NewCastleIndiana is this a video on UA-cam or something that happened at your local club?
@@punkindrublic001 I am unaware of any publicly available video. I don’t have any local club. Not sure anyone would want to be identified. I likely do have photo of timing sheet, though. You can email me and I can see if I got something I can share.
@@NewCastleIndiana thanks bud, got it! Not sure how you found me on SD however
@@punkindrublic001 trying to find somewhere to drop that for you. I have fuelly, too! you need to follow SD's "Official Auto Car Ride & Drive Events:"
As we get older, we cannot ignore the importance seats that provide adequate ball clearance. So important...
Why? Does your balls hang low, can you throw them over your shoulder... 🎵 🎶
Got rid of my balls to increase my lap times.
I’ve been a Honda tuner for a long time and lately a Subaru fan the last 3 years. Always liked the GTi.. but I never thought I’d consider a Hyundai as a true Sports car. Great video guys! Keep up the awesome work. 👏🏻
LOL good luck tuning the elantra. Those engines grenade and can't handle power
@@42cubastop the cap. 😂
@Lemonshamp00 fr like, does that mean he's dogshit at tuning or...
@@42cuba... I don't know about their new cars but I know a few people with reliable 400hp tiburons the beta and delta engines are good engines also the main reason people say a "can is untuneable" has to do with how much hp a car was designed to make and little odd tuning things on old cars. Cylinder 4 cooling mod requires a tune, because the car can't tell when to pull timing if it can't look at mild knock reliably from cylinder 4 on old ej motors. Doesn't mean they're not good motors but people blow the transmissions and engines up often because they don't understand the compromises that the engineers made when designing the cars. The same thing applies to lower gears in old wrxs people modify them to make more power not understanding that the cars are specifically down tuned in 1st 2nd and 5th because they don't have the tires to get the powerdown and if they did they would much more easily damage the transmission and because the low rpm in fifth gear will damage the turbo so 1st and 2nd and fifth have reduced timing and fifth also has reduced boost.
Since it’s a VW, it looks the best and seems the most equipped.. I like it the best. German engineering baby!!
I love that you had 4 manual trans cars to test against each other. And I'm left just appreciating that these 4 cars can have a unique identity in such a closely packed market. Great video!
And base models.
My dad has a 2013 hyundai sonata and there's been so many recalls on it. Engine, seat belts, air bags, fuel system, etc. He's had the car for a little less than 8 years, and nearly every year since he finds out about a new recall.
@@factsmatter6980 Every manufacturer has recalls. As long as they fix the issue I don't see the problem. Costs you nothing.
@@factsmatter6980 Wow its almost like that car is 9 years old
@@factsmatter6980 Sure, all manufacturers have recalls but which have the MOST recalls? And which have the most ENGINE-RELATED recalls? On both accounts, consistently, it's HYUNDAI. No thanks. They've been making vehicles for decades yet they still haven't figured things out? Why bother with Hyundai at all.
I showed this video to my Nigerian prince penpal and he was so impressed he sent me enough money to become a Patron. Thanks for all the work you guys do, we know it runs you ragged and often doesn’t provide the returns it should but the automotive world would be less without the Geese.
the CIVIC is t best looking ... ELANTRA N is the best performer ...
Lol
Savage Geese videos always resonate so hard with me that I begin to feel like everything is right with the world. But, then my wife gets mad at me for leaving the toilet seat up or farting in bed, and I remember that the world is a cruel place where you will always be punished for having hope.
The end.
I’m with Mark on the “gentle on long balls” Civic Si. Best daily street car for the long ownership experience
Back during the 8th gen (fg2 and fa5) with the k20z3 engine, not only was it practical as hell, it sounded like a race car with that 8200 redline. That car was FUN
@@kevinkim9620 that’s what I have! It’s starting to feel pretty dated now though. Lusting after a new one.
GTI is obviously a better daily street car
@@kevinkim9620 I think the K24Z7 from the 9th-gen Si is still in production. Would the Si be compelling if it still had that engine? It would be the only naturally aspirated car in its class (putting aside the two-door & now also 2.4L GR86), but obviously a 2.4L Si's fuel consumption would be horrible compared to the L15B7.
The complaints of the 9th-gen Si, that the handling was a bit soft unless you got the HFP package, seem to have been fixed by Honda now and now the standard Si seems to handle pretty well.
@@fhowland Nah, new cars are worse. I've done the 2.0 turbo thing both old-school and modern twin-scroll, and I prefer the K20Z4 (FN2) by far. It's so much snappier and more fun for a street car! I could not care less that it's a little bit slower, the modern 2.0 twin-scroll was quicker but it simply was not more fun, not by any means [the engine sounded and felt like a blender, not nice at all :(].
I just purchased the VB WRX in the premium package. Mine is black so the cladding blends well and doesn’t look awful in my opinion. So fun to drive. No bias compared to the other offerings in this video.
Finally, non super-car content. Excellent cinematic quality work here.
Exactly. I hate the videos for the top .1% of people who can afford them. The reality is that this is what the majority of enthusiast are buying nowadays. It has to take the kids to school and be able to hit the track. This is just the reality for the 99.9% of us.
Agreed! The super car head-to-heads actually get boring after a while. You start to realize there's a lot of overexaggerating for the camera which makes it feel like you're watching a kid's show.
Idk about you but this channel doesnt seem to focus all that much on super cars. Very wide variety of cars. Though I tend to watch more of the affordable end than anything else. Rarely am I interested in high end cars (100k+).
There is much way too much hate for "poverty" specs or "poverty" cars. I'm far far more impressed when people show up with a fun sport value based car rather than a 6 figure flex. At the onset of Rona Feb/Mar 2020 I picked up an ND Miata ('16 RWD MT ST Sport w 45k miles) for $10k OTD. I have no payment have had no depreciation and it only required oil changes, new tires, and new fluids. It's literally the best money I've ever spent on a product and made the pandemic a blast by "isolating" driving in the rocky mountains.
To be fair 99% of cars have had no depreciation since March 2020 hahahaha but very cool car
Fancy seeing you here. :). Nearly copped an ND Miata before Rona and regret not doing so. Enjoy!
That's great...some of us need more doors and a solid roof. I have a 19 wrx base and wish I got the limited instead. I've learned not to buy a base Subaru. Is possible, the base spec miata is a better spec'd base than the wrx. Or Mazda shrunk the (feature) gap btwn the base and grand touring trims.
the CIVIC is t best looking ... ELANTRA N is the best performer ...
@@ZeroFidelity Sean, it would be awesome for you to review car stereos. No one is doing this well, and your approach whether on your own or partnering with SG would make for very interesting content.
The quality of videos like this is why I watch every single SG video. Even if I have no desire to buy the vehicle.
I rewatch the Pacifica video pretty often.
The Elantra N description is very appealing
I bought my 2022wrx in February. Premium trim with some extras, including a sti short throw shifter. It is my daily. It is so fun to drive and i have absolutely no regrets. I love this car. The infotainment system blends in after a bit of owning it and does not bother me.
same bro absolutely love my wrx
Is that short shift kit worth the price of admission? Noticeable shorter throws?
Infotainment took some getting used to on the Outback Wilderness, but I've grown to like it a lot, especially with the last update which moved the heated seats to their own buttons !
Mpg?
Proud owner of a 2015 MK7 GTI here.
I like all of these cars, I like the entire class.
Having been a teenager in the 70's, with today's fuel prices - it's deja vu all over again.
This segment makes more sense than ever, particularly if it's your only car.
I could have gone for a Mustang or Camaro in 2015, but I knew a situation like the one we are in now might come - though I had no idea it would be this severe.
Cars like this always make sense.
Oh, I said it before and it bears repeating: Savageese are the UA-cam equivalent of what Car & Driver Magazine was in its glory days.
That's a huge compliment.
@Incomudro As soon as I read your C&D comment I realize you're absolutely correct. I started reading it in '87 and remained a loyal subscriber until too much of the old guard retired. Spot on comparison.
@@markpainter6988 Right?
And, and thank you!
Yes, those witty, sarcastic and fun day of C&D in the 80's.
I don't know which part I like better, the 25 minute jab that every drag race video is (plus annoying ass music) or how much I love Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec sound. Pure art opening.
Once again Team SG knocks it out of the park with in-depth technical details that most car reviewers gloss over (or never mention) and feedback from an enthusiast & pro driver perspectives. This was a great comparison segment. Thank you for all your efforts.
Most people buy CUV and SUV. If it works and has apple car play and looks fashionable they mostly don't care.
Very much appreciate this comparison. I bought a '22 GTI S a couple of weeks ago, and have put 2k miles on it. Have to agree with the video, for the most part. Super livable, lots of fun when you want to have some, and a sense of purposeful refinement that belies the price. Lots of reviewers dig on the haptic steering wheel and dash controls - I've found spending a number of miles with them, I've gotten accustomed to them (and I'm a bit of a Luddite). No regrets....
Great review - really. For me, living where we receive 150+ inches of snow per year, the Subaru is the only choice. I wouldn't be able to get to work 30+ days per year with the other three cars. Incidentally, we love the unpainted black plastic here, because paint on many other cars gets blasted off by the salt and sand in the first winter. I had a BMW 340xi, and because of the way the back tires peak out, it had no paint on the sides of the back bumper after its first winter here. Most cars are like that, but the Subarus don't have that problem.
Agreed! good comment
Thanks for all the great contents and reviews. Been watching you guys for 5 years !
If you want a hatch get the GTI
If you want awd get the WRX
if you want a fun sedan get the Elantra N
If you want a fun car that won’t give any problems get the SI
Thank you guys for the awesome review. You guys covered them perfectly with the time pressures. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate these videos but I do understand that the fun of these cars gets neutered with all the constraints you guys overcome.
I bought a 2011 Elantra with the six speed manual. I now have 263,000 miles on it. It does not use oil, runs very well. I’m happy with it. Two days ago, I bought a 2023 Elantra N with the 6 speed manual in the performance blue. Only 56 miles on it now.
How is it now
@@classicdufferin8739 I have almost 23,000 on the 2023 Elantra. No problems at all, so far. The 2011 Elantra I still going strong. The a/c quit working though 🥵269,000 on it now. Just put front pads and rotors on it.
Awesome review. 6 mos later we know how underated the WRX is, consecutively testing faster than a stock STI. Mild tune and the WRX now with it's upgraded stable suspension is loads of fun for mid $30k. I personally tested a few cars and considered S3 along with model R but find this to be a very good handler. Coming from e92.
You're 100% correct. I recently got myself a VB. I liked the older WRX's but hated the way they drove. They felt like you had to wring them out to get the power to be competitive. The stock VB has one of the most linear feeling power delivery curves I've ever felt. Even better than the older 5.7's from GM that had a flat torque curve similar to the WRX. The best part about the VB is it's ability to go off the pavement. Any of these other cars meet the dirt; they have no change competing against the WRX. Now people are getting 70-80hp gains with an intake, exhaust, and a tune. You're talking 350hp for under $1500. That 350hp puts the car into a completely different bracket. I won't burn my warranty up, but damn it's so tempting.
@@phorkit5717 No kidding. I appreciate the warranty myself but this car is so tempting to tune. Haven't decided yet which way I'm going... The lifted bad ass turbo crosstrek or wider wheels lowered and aero dynamics. Guess staying stock for now ain't too bad.
@@marcinfil3673 Trust me, I come from a Focus ST... Tuning was impossible to wait for.
Their video on the wrx track test, the motor blew up. Subaru is the worst manufacturer here...
@@AmericanBusinessman422 link or didn't happen
I traded my mustang for a 6 speed Elantra N earlier this year and I absolutely love it.
How bad is the ride on the street I've thought about ordering one
@@HarryTwatter not bad at all.. you can change the suspension for the street
@@HarryTwatter much smoother than I thought it would be. Personally I didn’t like the seats or the plastic grab handle in the middle but the N is a joy to drive.
@@HarryTwatter Totally liveable if you adjust it to the mild setting. If you put in N mode, which is the most intense mode, you will lose some fillings.
V8 mustang?
Thanks chaps, very interesting stuff.
I'm sure tests like this take a hell of a lot behind the scenes work and logistics. Let that be known.👍👏
Only your wallet can lose with those crazy dealer markups and skyrocketing gas prices especially for premium...absolute clown world
Ooooorrr you can live in Canada where dealer markup are illegal and the most they can sell you at is MSRP!
Yup most civic si are being sold around 40k after mark up, accessories, and ttl
@@sephiros9883 one advantage just like with your conversion rate you get wrx for 24k meanwhile it starts 30k for us lol
@@sephiros9883 what are you talking about? That’s not true
I paid sticker last month for a new GTI.
Love this. This is the group of cars that's most relevant in my life and kind of what really got me into cars in the first place (the last gen at least). Love the break down. They all really have their own place and there's a solid place for each one in the market I feel. And kudos to these automakers for keeping affordable enthusiast cars alive.
Never thought I would be a wrx owner, but after learning a bit about the new platform and taking a test drive, I was sold. Also available for under msrp. Not only as a stock daily driver is it wonderful, but it seems to be the best of this bunch for basic mods. It’s like Subaru created this wrx for basic tuning while keeping reliability.
The fact that we were able to buy one at or below MSRP really sealed the deal with me. Im half way through the break in and can't wait to fully test it out.
@@Gabriel-vj1cf - it’s been great to us so far. We had a 2003 Evo 8 new back in the day and three Galant VR4s. I get the Evo vibes with this wrx. The fact this new WRX is only running 12ish psi stock boost while all the other turbo/small displacement cars in its segment are running 20+ stock, really says a lot. Enjoy!!
The GTI is hands down the most tuneable for the least amount of mods done. And holds up to the power the best. Air intake, turbo inlet, down pipe, stage 1 engine and trans tune. Go from 240 HP to 360-400 hp for about $3,000
We are the same… NEVER would have thought I would be a WRX owner. Traded my X3 M40i for my subie. I love it
If you think Subaru is reliable I can tell you only read the marketing..
Another highlight in your feature career. Yesterday I saw a video of a comparison between affordable sports cars and this is on par! Great stuff on a Friday. Thanks SG
Driving an i30N FL I can really say that Hyundai has managed to make these cars handle exceptionally well. The first time I planted the gas pedal in a turn I nearly drove into the inside curb, because I was expecting the car to start understeering like my old first gen Leon Cupra R, but it did none of that; the handling is incredibly neutral, despite being FWD and front heavy, it feels like the car wants to push over all four tires evenly and even if you manage to let the rear slip, a slight correction is all you need to keep the car from spinning out, never making you feel like its not responding to your steering input.
the CIVIC is t best looking ... ELANTRA N is the best performer ...
@@gorgonismztruth1551 the si looks horrible. Gti is best looking.
@@gorgonismztruth1551 the civic is boring as hell!
@@ll.7927 Civic is going for that retro styling from the early 2000's
@@stephenkim589 nah hell no. It’s ugly doesn’t look retro at all. I still own my 95 integra gsr that’s fully built n this new si is horrible. Even the new type r still iffy to me.
This is literally the comparison that's running through my head 24/7. Thanks guys
It's worth a mention that the WRX has the one feature that matters to some people (who drive in snow)... AWD.
Yes 👍 can’t drive the SI or the N in the snow and play 😅
That Hyundai looks like a blast! Now if someone can guarantee that the engine won't die a premature death
probably not before some teenager steals it.
I mean, the manufacturer guarantees the engine for 10 years or 100k miles
@@jamesjosh they all fight tooth and nail to not honor their warranties. it’s a business not a charity.
Great video. This is what normal people can afford. Keep this type of content coming! Bring on the new Type R.
Only 5 minutes in so I'm unsure if it's brought up again later, but the brace in the trunk of the Elantra N is removable.
The comparison video we all really care about. Great insight on these
This comparo ushers in a new era of SG greatness! So well done and entertaining. Just make every future video a comparo - I'm sure it's no more difficult to do than a single car review. I mean, you've already got the cameras rolling...
Proud to be a SG Patreon supporter!
SO glad you guys actually state your opinion and rank the cars!
Too many other reviewers put titles on their videos that suggest a comparison..."Is the new GTI better than the Civic SI?" or "X brand vs. Y brand", but then completely wimp out in the video, and instead say something like "Which do you think is the better vehicle...leave your opinion in the comments." WTF? (I'm looking at YOU Raiti's Rides).
Savage geese are much more like the great review hallmarks like Car and Driver. You guys don't pull punches and state what you honestly think.
Well Done!
love the comparison, you can see how much work went into this
Jack is on point with the ratings. I don't think most people who are in the market for these cars have a dedicated sports car in addition to their daily, so Mark's take is not resonating with me this time. Overall, great job as always.
I agree that most shoppers of these cars are shopping for their one and only car. I was such a shopper and for a long time my MK7 GTI was my only car. However, I'm still glad Mark offered a different opinion. His ratings offer a different perspective that results in a more comprehensive review. Now that I also have an NA Miata, I especially appreciate the refinement the GTI offers.
Mark is just getting old lol
I don't think anyone with "weekend car" money is shopping for any of these.
@@JaRW7 Jack had a GTI at one point along with his C7. He replaced the GTI with the new BRZ, which is maybe $5k more than these cars. TheTopher (another car UA-camr) recently bought his new Civic Si and he has at least 1 weekend car.
@@JaRW7 ah it depends. I’m looking for a weekend car to race but I can’t afford to pay 50k for one. So this is the limited market I’m in. I have my Durango for long road trip n if I need to tow anything. N then I have my Jetta for work travel.
Excellent video guys, I enjoyed it.
My top pick would be the Civic. There's absolutely no way to track a normal car where I live (or at the least it would be very costly I think) so my focus is more on daily fun driving so that fits the bill with it also having imo the nicest interior.
Always a excellent review. I bought the WRX. I never felt comfortable with my wife driving the ND2 Miata. For her it was the size and visibility that’s makes her feel comfortable. My wife loves the looks of it and I’m really glad because I got her to marry me also. I still think the ND2 is the perfect street toy btw.
It looks like Hyundai is really stepping up their game. I know the stereotype they carry is going to be hard to get rid of, but if they keep outperforming their competition in performance and price, that would change in the future!
Never had a Hyundai and currently have a WRX, but the stuff they've been putting out has been really intriguing.
new WRX is shit, so yeah just go with competitors.
@roboticvenom1935
Did Subaru just like fire all there Engineers from 99-2014 or so? They really are just making them generic af and not putting too much special into it. It needs that umf that other's have had. Or at least transfer the Japanese umf into American umf. Seems like we are lately getting the short end of the stick lately!
Albert Biermann (just retired but still consulting Hyundai) is the man probably behind the best cars ever made, the BMW M’s of the 90’s-00’s. He worked with Hyundai/Genesis the last 7 years. The N cars along with G70 are his works and the reason Hyundai N and Genesis have risen to being great cars.
@@blzaner Genesis are super dope. Especially their SUV's that are no fixable if they get in a fender bender by the way they are made into the car grooves.
I've never owned a sporty Hyundai and the last one we owned was a 2011. However it is literally the worst brand I've ever had. I've had VW,Mini,Ford,Subaru, Dodge, Toyota, etc. and the only two I would never own again are that and the Mini. The hyundai had insane amounts of issues I'd never experienced with any car. interior quality was trash, drive-ability was trash, and MPG was bad even for an SUV. The only place that works on hyundai's in my town of 800K people is the stealership. They always treated us horribly rude and never liked that I knew how cars worked and would call BS when they'd slap fake crap on.
Ok ok... This vid is amazing. I love this shootout and track timings with the pro. How about doing a dedicated "affordable" track car 2-door shootout, GR86, Miata, Camaro SS 1LE, Mustang GT:PP, Z, Supra. That would be as the kids say, 🔥.
Agreed
The Supra is in no way affordable. The Z is borderline, but in base trim could compete, though its omissions will hurt it. The rest would be fun to compare if they could get them similarly equipped, which is no small thing.
Having owned a 19 SS 1LE....driven a few NDs, and owned a first gen 86....the SS 1LE will destroy everything on that list for track use. It has fantastic inputs and the limit is absurdly high. The shifter and clutch feel is perfect, way better than the Miata IMO. The steering is really good, really sharp/direct and has good feel, the chassis is amazing, the brakes are insane. It's amazing how well it hides its weight/size. It's only real let down is visibility and the running costs suck. Big heavy car, needs huge ass tires, huge brakes etc.
It gets good fuel economy for what it is (a friggin huge V8)....I regularly got 19mpg and drove it like an asshole....but I'd cringe paying current gas prices. Tires are $2k and last maybe 20-30k miles if you're lucky on the street. Staggered set up, so can only rotate tires left to right. Oil changes are expensive if you don't do it yourself, 10qts of oil. And then I'd imagine brake parts would be pricey, enormous rotors and what not. It's an "affordable" entry..but you'd need deep pockets to regularly track it compared to a Miata or GR86.
I think you nailed it with making the review of these cars even. Every car had a manual. There was no “manual vs auto” comparison. They all were manual, which made it a fair comparison. This is something so many car reviewers do wrong. They don’t make proper comparisons when reviewing multiple cars at once. Good job in this.
It no doubt took quite a lot of work with the brand reps to get all four of these similarly equipped cars at the same time. I'm very impressed by the work put into the video. Good job, guys.
hi jace
VW really let down their GTI (and GLI) when they spec’d those GARBAGE tires…having test drove these cars it truly is a shame.
The Elantra N is so much fun to drive and the cabin noise isn’t that bad even on long highway drives. Also the stock exhaust sound is brilliant 🤌 like they say, if you want fun over an easy drive that car is no question the best
The n-line Elantra premium is the one to go for for comfort
If you're willing to add your own sound deadening, the experience would be mint. The noise in my veloster n is just meh for long trips.
@@2010ngojo what would that involve? Sound deadening the floor and doors?
@@mharro88
mostly the flooring and door panels, but anywhere that doesn't have any deadening would help slightly. To do it properly, you need to pretty much tear out the interior to the bare chassis metal. Then put layers of different materials. It could add up to 100 pound to the weight of the car tho (for a proper installation), just something to keep it mind. But if you plan on keeping it for long, I'd say it's worth trying. Maybe do sections at a time, like doors and trunk area first, then the main body. It's time and labor intense for diy tho.
@@2010ngojo yeah cool , sounds doable though.. from your experience did you notice it reduce Db noticeably?
Always been a subaru driver, picked up my 2022 WRX Premium WR Blue, and let me tell you it is refined. Not as up to date as the GTI, but certainly nice and solid. Performance is great, and being AWD it is most practical for me as a daily. Loved the comparisons and glad to see these manual transmissions still in the game!
how do the elantra tail lights look from back there?
@@freework24 subaru has the history and the heritage, the elantra is faster but for daily use in this climate its certainly the better car for me. No need for this comment lol all about the rally culture!
The elantra n will only last a few years anyways 😂
@@ccouch5859 Exact same thing can be said for the gti.
besides the gti doesn’t have a 10 year warranty.
@@freework24none of these cars are that fast, so I think the one that fits the specific persons wants and needs is the best not which one is quickest. You’ll still get gapped in the Elantra by anything decently fast so who cares? The wrx is much better in poor road conditions, it’s funner to chuck around cause of the awd, it’s more comfortable, and the tiny straight line advantage of the Elantra doesn’t even matter. You’ll still get gapped by every Tesla or ev out there lol
I think when you get used to the infotainment on the GTI (or get the more base level gear?) - once you get rid of these crappy all season tires, and preferably move up to the DSG, it's a no-brainer. It's by far the most practical car as I have a Mark 7 and you can literally stick two full size mountain bikes in the back with the front wheel off. It's an obscure example of how much room there is but it is amazing what you can stuff back there. That, and the level of refinement, the fun to drive factor, an engine that's exceedingly easy to get extra power from for cheap - not to mention the fact they have a ridiculous aftermarket - and if you're not a maniac with the throttle, these cars give incredible fuel mileage and it's easy to get mid to high 30s in highway fuel mileage. They're just an exceptional overall package. They've had many, many years to fine-tune it, and it shows. The only real drawback is unlike the other three, if you're not fastidious with your maintenance it will bite you in the ass like any German car. Keep it in good running order and follow the proper protocol and you'll never want to sell it. And I'm speaking from experience having had seven gti's in pretty much every rendition except Mk2.
I've got a MK7 GTI too.
I put my road bike in the hatch once or twice a week.
The ability to do that makes the MK8 my only real choice for my next vehicel should I stay in this segment.
And yeah, I can get over 30mpg's in mixed driving here in central NJ if I go easy on it.
I can get a good 36mpg's on the highway if I set cruise control to 68mph.
Now more than ever, my GTI makes so much sense.
I got 2023 VW GTI. All the negative reviews about infotainment total BS. I found it no issues whatsoever using. GTI well made car, driving dynamics unmatched to any other car in this segment. Beautiful machine. I love it. I agree it’s all about how you take care of your care dictate the life of your car. It doesn’t matter what car.
This was a great video! Thanks for putting it together for us to enjoy! Have a deposit on a rally blue WRX in sport-tech trim on the way... the cladding's actually grown on me since seeing it in person, and it's going to be a great 4-season daily driver here in Ontario. Looking forward to getting flamed for putting a previous gen STI wing on it 😄
I'm in Toronto. Mines coming in July. World rally blue. Sport tech. Can't wait. Did these guys mention what the real world HP is? I think they said all the cars are underrated
How are you liking yours I just got mine in ceramic White :)
I got a sport tech aswell but in black in halifax. It's a blast on the twisty back roads
Excellent work gentlemen. I truly love all your content. I bought a T-shirt to support you guys and watch all your videos.
I'm inline with Mark's mindset. I have a 981 Cayman for fun and needed a fun daily. I got the Civic Si. Second choice would have been the GTI. Great video!
This is one of the best car comparaison video i have ever seen. The quality is up there with the tv shows.
for me after driving all 4
the Elantra N was the pick for me easily I didn't find that car be that harsh at all and it just felt so much more fun to drive , the gti would be my second choice and ive owned 3 of them but that infotainment system was a deal braker I hated it so bad I didn't even want to drive the car anymore.
Yeah for a car you're gonna drive daily, I feel like the infotainment of the GTI would have you loathing it within a few weeks. So annoying to be fighting a system that shouldn't be complicated in the first place, not to mention potentially dangerous....takes your attention away from driving. Hopefully the MK8.5 or whatever they call it will go back...the GTI is basically the perfect all rounder.
@@NDEEZMiata completely agree and what's crazy at night there isn't any illuminated lights to known where to press to even use the system
Civic would be my choice. Best daily driving experience but still capable enough to have some fun every once in awhile
GTI is a better daily driving experience lol, cabin, ride, performance, hatch, incredible DCT(that'll make it beat the subaru mind you)
Great test! Goes so show by your final rankings what people value will dictate your choice at that 30k mark. Thank you for acknowledging the tire width and compound differences….very few reviewers call attention and understand just how important that is. Owners of all four vehicles will more than likely change rims, widths, and compounds throughout ownership 👍
Went to a couple stealers (dealers) to check out the Elantra N and Civic Si. They wanted $8k over the top for the Elantra N and $4k over MSRP for the Si. The Si had almost every conceivable HPD accessory added to it, which put the total at almost $40K! No thank you.
I've checked at least 20 dealers, no Si no GTI no WRX no N products. They're all sold out. Even with these crazy markups. This dealership system needs to go down, needs to go down fast. On the other hand; I've a Ford Maverick order in place, and it's been 6 months, not a single email or news about it's build date 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️ So that's that.
These are crazy days. When I drove the Elantra N last month it was the only MT in the state of Arizona, and was marked up $4K.
@@agrisizkulak a ford maverick, LMFAO
GTI has least markups mate..
@@roboticvenom1935not in Arizona, alas.
I bought a Civic SI for a commuter car and I am glad you felt it was the best for that. Fun to drive, excellent gas mileage, it feels quick even though it was the slowest of the group. Excellent presentation as always.
any steering issues?
Great review/comparison. I shopoed all these cars and included the Civic R , the Acura Integra type S and the Volkswagen R. The absolute best bang for buck option was the Golf GTI S with DSG at 33.2 k. Second only to the Golf R in speed and the Civic SI in mpg.
When you guys tested the GTI I said exactly that. The car would come with all seasons and the 200tw tires would hide a lot of under steer and I was told I was idiot in not so many terms. Lap times don’t lie and the best improvement anyone can make to a car is the tires.
The cars biggest issue/ the biggest difference other than over all levels of grip versus the re71r is corner exit. The car simply struggles powering out with all seasons. The p zeros are also a exceptionally unsticky tire. I think they were 400-600 treadwear
Great video guys! The Subaru is nice and the Civic is a solid choice but I think Hyundai hit a home run with the Elantra N!
I find it remarkable they managed to turn a very ordinary economy compact into such a serious performance car. The investment must have been enormous. I guess they're serious about establishing the cred of the N sub-brand.
@@markmiller3279
I think they planned the performance aspect of the car right in the beginning with the chassis design. It does share the platform with the i30 and the veloster, first two cars with the special N treatment. They just have to adapt and refine them for the elantra n and kona n. A good chassis can go a long way.
the subaru is less nice then the gti..
Great video!
I currently am sitting at about 9k miles on my ‘22 GTI S DSG… I use it to work out of and take kids to and from school drop off/pick up line etc and my global average across all 9k miles is 29.5mpg! Hooning, highway and AC idle for hours a day included! I’m getting 35.5 at 80mph on I-65 as an average with 39-40mpg in the winter as the high bar on 87 octane which is what she’s designed to run with the new higher pressure direct injection system! To say I’m pleased for $31k in having a sub 5second 0-60 car that gets 30mpg average on ‘87 is a major understatement!
Man golf GTI used to cost 20k brand new like couple years ago... 30k now? God, I'd rather get 3 series BMW
@@Efreet17 username checks out
Thank you guys for making this video! Absolutely the most beneficial video I've seen from anybody for affordable performance cars. All points were touched on.
This video was so well done gentlemen. Thank you for putting in the extra effort as always! The Elantra N has to be the best…it’s a first gen. It’s that dialed and really doesn’t sacrifice anything if you buy it as advertised. The other cars have had decades of development!
Had a Golf3 in the 1990s after owning an ‘88 Jetta. Both manual. The Golf was more “refined” but felt less “dangerous” once in montion. My buddy’s GTI felt the best of both - higher end and faster to the danger zone. Loved cruising in on I-15 from Salt Lake to Ogden in 30 minutes💨 💨 💨
Imagine if the GTI had a reasonable infotainment and control system... I loved the controls and switch gear in my '17 Sport trim.
How trash like that gets through design, testing, and quality control is mind-boggling.
The Mk7.5 infotainment was the perfect balance of physical controls and touchscreen controls imo. They should have carried it right over into the Mk8 without changing a thing.
16' SE and man the interior space is lovely
@@povertyspec9651 you have to wonder if the people who approved the decision to move forward with this all touch interface still have their jobs.
touchscreen is cheaper than physical controls
Mark, thanks for talking honestly about the armrests in the Subaru. I had the same problem in my wife's 2010 Forester, and it's a major ergonomic issue on long trips.
I flipping hate the seats in my wifes '17 outback. They are horrible. That being said it is dirt cheap to opperate.
There’s an easy fix: buy the armrest extension, an accessory available for the WRX. I wouldn’t buy it without that.
@@desertdriver7056 easy fix: buy a superior product lol
Awesome video. It's perfect for me right now. It's actually the first time I've seen you guys. I'm about to see much more. Thumbs up and following. I loved how you guys broke those cars down.
P.s. That Elantra N though... I never thought I'd be thinking about a Hyundai.
While I'm glad Honda has a sub $30k option it'd be nice if they offered a higher performance version that slots between the Si and Type R. It'd be interesting to see how a ~$32-33k Si-R would compares performance-wise to these other cars.
That would be awesome to see a 2 liter turbo engine option.
They could do a HPD model with some bolt-ons, a tune, and the missing features from the CA spec.
I think the Integra should of been that in-between model. If they had given it the Accord's 2L and manual as standard, it would compete with the GTI.
oh well, will never exist
@@DragonKnightX12 adding some HPD's would just be minor though, at that point would get dusted by GTI, esp if the buyer is ok with some basic aftermarket mods.. "if they just given accord 2L and manual" sounds like someone who does not work in the auto industry! mate the price would BALOON if it had that powerplant and would require significant changes for the vehicle to handle it
@@roboticvenom1935 Who said had to compete with the GTI? That’s CTR territory.
The Si should be around the performance of the GLI or GR 86.
Sounds like someone is trying to be a internet expert. Not really. They already got the means to do it, and the Integra is already at the price range where everyone offers a bigger engine.
Thanks Mark, for making the adult choice with the Civic Si. With gas prices beyond ludicrous these days, mileage matters, and what good is having a manual if the shifter's not a joy to use? Bummer about the clutch. A smooth engagement with a wide friction zone is a beautiful thing.
If Honda would bring back the manual transmission (that doesn't suck) for the Accord, I'd be a happy camper.
I was fortunate enough to have driven a late 90s/early 2000's Accord and can't tell you enough about how smooth and easy to drive it was. Honda's back in the day were so buttery smooth that it almost felt like you were riding a cloud. From what I hear, modern Honda manuals just don't feel as good unless you're driving a Type R.
If I had the money for an SI, I would just but an older Honda like an Accord 6mt or that Civic coupe from last gen. Size matters. But I will admit that I like the interior design.
@@kevinnorris6558 I had an early 90s Accord and that car was so smooth and comfortable I would doze off driving. I miss that car.
I’m as big a Si fan as anyone. Having owned a brand new 00 back in the hayday. I have seat time in the new 22 and while I love the layout, gas mileage, Bose stereo, etc….the performance is horrendous in 2022. A stock 06 Si would demolish the new Si. And that’s sad.
I love the N buttons with custom dampers/exhaust/steering/LSD/engine/ESC/rev match. It works really well to be driving normal and hit the button for an onramp or corner then go back to normal. The car is really very nice in normal mode. If you value a splash of sport in your cars, you will be fine in the N. Recently did 10 hour/day roadtrip and Im a fat guy age 45.
The EN was made for fun. If the stability bar in the trunk is a deal breaker for you, then you are to practical for this car.
I bought a 2022 Oryx White SE 6-Speed about 2 months ago and it’s absolutely fantastic in every way - the infotainment and Haptic Touch buttons is something that completely grows on you and now whenever I drive another car it feels prehistoric with all of the buttons - please don’t dismiss this car before you go to the dealer and spend an hour with it! It’s awesome and I’m truly happy with my purchase.
You bought what? You typed out everything but the brand and model.
Just got a 2024 GTI SE in moonstone gray, today on the highway I got 38 mpg and saw 39 a few times! ONLY THE GERMANS use ultra high strength steel. It’s a tank!
Bought the WRX…1000kms in I am thoroughly enjoying it…
Just hit 23,000kms on the poverty spec ‘22 WRX and so far so good.
Gas mileage sucks. Even when trying to get the best mileage it can. Can get the same mileage with a 5.0L V8 mustang gt.
The stock tires have performed beyond expectations though they are down to under 4/32. They wear relatively fast but the trade off is performance. My winter tires are at 7/32 after one season, because, well, this car is fun in the winter…
Have an appointment at the dealership to deal with a clicking front strut mount and a fuel gauge sending unit that now registers max 3/4 when full and min 1/4 when empty. Should be warranty so all good…thus far.
You guys are so dialed in. Love this channel.
THE most relevant video ever on the channel, this is what, as a wild ass guess, 70% of your viewers are either in the market for or contemplating. Not to mention the production value and technical insights are at a professional level, just as it has been for years, and we just expect it at this point.
It’s even enough to forgive the next dozen Porsche unobtainiummobilereviewbideos that will inevitably show up next week.
Simply the best car review/comparison channel because the time and thought you guys put into your perspectives for each car.
Mark talking about his "long balls" and how they don't bang on the seat bolsters. THIS is why I come here. LOL
The GTI is the best all rounder, but I'd pick the Hyundai for the 10/10 fun factor.
The koreans are just killing it, plus they have the best stock warranty
I know everybody says it but those touch buttons are just a dealbreaker no matter what
The GTI is still too soft. It needs solid bushings in key suspension areas vs the bushings that have voids and compliance built in. The solid bushings add feel/firmness w/o the harshness most ppl think they do.
@@everydaybodybuilding2282 a sedan is also a deal breaker in a lot of cases.
@@K03sport in Europe they have the GTI Clubsport which is basically a fwd Golf R, but even faster.
I ran a 13.1 in the 1/4 mile with the DCT Elantra N. The other 3 won’t come anywhere close to that. The M/T is tougher to launch no doubt, but the DCT is a different animal.
Unfortunately it’s let down by being FWD. if they added AWD and made it a proper WRX competitor it would probably mop the floor with them all
I'm sorry you can't drive. DCT was not part of this comparison because it's cheating. This was a real fair comparison.
@@billydee1879 lmao, I bet you believe I’m not a man because I didn’t choose the manual version too. Wouldn’t be surprised if you drive a Dodge Charger, but it’s ok to drive an automatic in one of those. It’s not 1960 anymore, new automatics are becoming the more powerful option.
@@billydee1879 how is DCT cheating? Would AWD be deemed cheating as well, since it has a MAJOR advantage in grip off the line?
@@sleeper.simulant7327 Dude what? It ALREADY mops the floor with the WRX. They don't need to add AWD to it. Just like the Civic Type R mops the floor with the STi and pretty much any other AWD performance car in its price range.
The Elantra N doesn't need the complexity and cost of AWD unless they want to give it a significant power upgrade, which would end up putting it in a higher price bracket. The car is fine as is.
This review came at a really important time for me as I try and decide between these cars. As some one who has only really driven a manual trans on his dads rust bucket Jetta, I'm a bit apprehensive on buying a brand new car with 3 pedals. But this was very helpful! Keep up the great work!
You’ll get the hang of it in a few days. I drove a brand new si home without any experience, sketchy as hell and stalled out a few times, but by the end of the week I was fine. Nervous still, but fine lol
Do it! You won't regret it.
You'll learn. Evwryone used to drive manuals, and they managed. However, don't feel like you have to to get more out of a car. The best autoboxes are superb and almost always give better 0-60 times and better gas mileage. They're also much more pleasant in stop-and-go traffic, of you have a tough commute. The Hyundai's DCT has been much praised, and I'd buy it every time over a fairly poor manual.
@@markmiller3279 better gas mileage in the city. Manual gets better highway mpg
WOW! With all sincerity, THANK YOU for the best affordable performance car review I’ve seen thus far! These are the four cars I’m considering for my daily drive/track day car. I’m so happy you used affordable cars. I hate how all the popular 90’s and early 2000’s icons have been turned into $60K+ “supercars”. These four vehicles represent that target tuner audience and you nailed the comparison. You have provided potential buyers with great information to make a decision on the car that’s right for them. Again, thank you and keep up the great videos!
Great video guys just an awesome round up of realistic cars the everyday driver can afford. By far the best Auto channel on UA-cam. The cinematography and flow of the review is what sets you apart from the rest. I pretty much look here and throttle house for my car reviews. The let’s check the sun visor guys have lost their way, stuck in clique corner over and over…..Once again guys awesome review, massive thumbs up 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏
Best all around car is the SI.
Best Track Car is the Elantra N.
Best all-weather car is the WRX.
Best refined car is the GTI.
Can't go wrong with any of them. Just pick the one that's the best fit for your lifestyle. Personally, I'd pick the SI for a daily, and have a GR86 as my weekend warrior.
You could drive the GR86 everyday (as long as you don't need to carry rear passengers)?
@@TassieLorenzo oh boy for daily driving is not that comfortable
I find it most interesting how for a similar price a collection of similar sized cars for the same purpose with a very similar powertrain layout diverge so vastly in execution and capability. The variety and option of these cars in todays world is a great thing!
Great content as always guys. You are my go-to for legit and non-biased car reviews.
Currently own an Elantra N manual and I can agree with all your points. Had a Veloster N DCT before and I sort of wish I would have stayed with the DCT.
The sacrifices in daily road driving are starting to wear on me a little though. Guess I am just getting old.
I will say there are a few of us doing HPDE and autocross and none of us have had to change or upgrade anything on the car, other than changing oil before/after events and tires. No overheating, no brake fade. It’s been holding up very well.
I will honestly admit that if VW had not completely shit showed the infotainment system I would probably be in a Mk8 Golf R.
Any possibility of a new Audi RS3 review soon?
I have an N DCT and I have no problem daily driving it. Maryland has great roads though so the rigidity never becomes a factor. Plus you can always throw it in eco and the dampers help a ton.
The infotainment is exactly why I'm avoiding the GTI right now.
I went with the DCT Elantra N and I have absolutely no regrets.
Thanks for that feedback! Very helpful.
@@enkymion We're you able to find a dealer that wasn't marking up over MSRP? I've only found one that's over an hour away (Danbury) from me but they are charging a dealer fee of $1299 since there is no limit in this state on dealer fees....
You guys always do an honest, awesome job with these cars. Appreciate it and keep up the good work!
I'd only seen Mr Geese through some snippets on the straight pipes. This was my first watch and it was awesome. Jack was an unexpected surprise and dang what a pro. Both great presenters, and I'm now subscribed!