GTI vs Civic Si - Battle of Icons | Everyday Driver TV Season 10
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- The VW GTI and Honda Civic Si have legions of dedicated fans and different approaches to the same idea of an affordable hot hatch do-it-all. We put the 8th generation GTI against the 11th generation Si to see which one advances the hot hatch thinking the most.
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00:00 - 1:57 New versions of Icons
1:57 - 5:48 Design & Interior
5:48 - 10:38 Power & Performance
10:38 - 15:12 Handling & Driver interaction
15:12 - Conclusions and favorites
This TV episode first premiered on MotorTrend cable channel in Jan of 2022, and is also available on Amazon Prime Video.
#CivicSI #GTI #HotHatch #comparison
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As a GTI fan there's no denying they're getting too pricy, but I've only seen higher-specced Mk8s reviewed and my experience for 20 years is the most simple, base GTI you can get is often the best one. The diff and the brakes are must haves in the Mk7+ cars IMO but once you have those, skip the interior trimmings and save $8k.
Have to agree. Of course, yesterday I bought a 2019 White GTI S, 6MT with plaid interior. 14,900 miles for $24.5k. Steal of a deal. Loving the big brakes and LSD so far.
@@j.3854 dang! Where??
It got 180kw now
@@k3iler05 private party that wanted out of his loan. Off Craigslist ad.
I am not sure why they keep saying the Civic is 10K cheaper, should they not be comparing base spec to base spec? In that case the price difference would be 3k. IF the price difference really was 10K then of course Honda would win hands down
A base GTI at around 30k would have make a better comparison. Someone shopping for a top trim GTI will probably just not look at a SI.
or the GLI
Absolutely agree. Should have compared the Si to the GTI S and or Jetta GLI. I was lucky enough to find a GTI S manual. I keep hearing a similar theme with the Si. It sounds like the younger crowd would enjoy it most. I loved the luxurious feel while still fun drive of the GTI. Si’s are presold everywhere and waitlisted, so no chance for a drive. Price, price, price.
@@Stclairm1 At any trim the GTI/GLI are better cars overall than the SI.... BUT.... in fun/$$$ ratio the SI win. So yeah , the SI is a win for youngers buyers.
@@hitmanhart6275 isn't the Honda way more reliable though? Atleast it will last much longer right?
@@wurlinnawurl biased point of view , it depends where you live, the 1.5t seems to dont like winter up here 😀
I paid $32k for a GTI S. With manual. And buttons (because it’s the S). And because it’s a 380 it has all the dynamic goodies of the Autobahn.
Love the behind-the-driver view that you're using at times. Really helps give a sense of speed, especially on these curvy roads.
This is high quality stuff right here! Love the little shots spliced in of the slightly shaky camera shooting from a little behind the shoulder of Paul when he’s driving the GTI in the first minute of the piece. And those chase/follow shots…. You guys have those DOWN! 👏🏼
True!
Makes me want to drive canyons too.
I am the weird guy that owned both. First was the mk6 Gti, then mk7 golf R, a 9th gen Si and now own a 11th gen Si. Yes the civic lacked some power, but the interior is really good, huge upgrade from the last car. The handling and driver focused controls are fantastic. After downpipe, tune, springs, wheel/tire upgrade and a larger rear sway bar I'll tell you it's a weapon now.
How reliability for both?
@@gigi9467 I think Honda overall has better reliability stock but the VWs are easier and more reliable to push with mods and tuning.
Already voided that warranty? 🤣
@@michaelfreestone8184 oh yeah.. custom tune for pump /E30 with flex fuel sensor and had to upgrade clutch to handle the power/tq lol. What I did is not ideal for someone that needs the car to last. It's just a toy for me.
How's the SI in its stock form?
Was really cool to meet you Paul and Todd out there while filming. You really picked the right road to test these, Little Tujunga Canyon is so good for feeling out a suspension too. Hope to see you in CA again - Parker (black Carrera T)
Awesome! You guys really help crystallize the relative trade offs. Can’t wait for a comparison between the SI and the new Elantra N
You guys are just knocking it out of the park. Incredible content. Keep up the great work. And if you’re ever in Kentucky, I’d like to tag along down KY-22 about 25 miles south of Cincinnati.
I still don't know how I feel about all digitial instrument clusters.. I know some others hold the same opinion but there's just something about analog gauge faces that are satisfying to look at, with a 3D depth to the cluster. The current digitial clusters do offer far more information and usefulness but it just always seems bland to me, whether its the GTI, 400z or the GR86.
All those screens and digital everything, make me seriously question what the long term reliability will be for those systems. Vehicles have gotten so complex in a very short time period.
I know what you mean. That and push button start is just alien to me. Never owned a car remotely modern enough to have them, nor do they appeal to me. My 94' Camry has a fancy new touch screen stereo and even that thing is pushing it for me.
I vastly prefer real dials and buttons that actually directly do something. Also the cost and reliability factor...I'm just not sure how you handle these cars when something goes wrong or how long they will really last a few decades from now.
I think late 10s lexuses got it right with the real bezel/gague on top of a screen
I concur. Back in the 90's a friend had a Chrysler New Yorker that was digital dash. When the instrument panel went out, the only thing that worked was the gas gauge. The cost was over $4,000 to replace... and that was early 90's. Like you, I like analog better as a result.
@@blazonbyrd5996 Ironically my 88' Supra had the option for an all digital dash. They look pretty sweet, but it's no replacement for how good the normal gauges look in that particular car.
Back in the 80's I think a digital number for your speed is OK, but what blows my mind is completely digital replacements for analogue gauges these days. Just seems completely backwards.
Good review as always.
Ive been watching everday driver for about 10 years now.
Thank you! We're glad to have you with us for so long!
Ive enjoyed watching both of these car evolve over the years.
I'd definitely cross-shop these two cars. I have a Mk6 GTI and love it, but as my dad is looking for a new car, I'm hoping he chooses the SI, mostly for the shifter feel and interior control.
I compared both and went with the si. Something about the driving position was better for me. Probably gonna tune and throw some bolt ons in and call it a day. Great mpg and it's smooth. Perfect commuter for sure. I highly recommend the si if you're looking for a commuter biased sporty car.
(Edit) I'm coming from owning 2 gti's. I had a 2000 gti and a 2008 gti. This is my first honda.
What do you think of it so far?
Si is bouncy, underpowered, & Rev hang
@@bluester02 I'm not him, but I purchased a '23 Si myself and was neck-deep in the buying market for a Mk8 GTI or Golf R, until I gave up after combatting dealer ADM and slow inventory. Managed to find an Si with zero ADM and pulled the trigger after a short test drive.
I can't say enough good things about the car and it fit exactly what I wanted: a car that was just large enough to comfortable seat four (and not a hair larger), a ride that was on the firmer side of comfortable, a manual gearbox (and it has a great one at that), great fuel economy (averaging 30mpg with 10,000 miles of *enthusiastic* driving), good looks (it's extremely germanic for a Honda, in a way that reminds me of 2010s era models), and decent cost.
If you're shopping for an efficient, economical commuter and think "damn, I wish I could buy a reliable, fuel-efficient Civic, but make it fun by adding a great suspension and manual" then that's exactly what you're getting.
Also added a Ktuner and TSP tune and it increased power to the perfect level (approx 240whp) and got rid of the rev hang.
@@oppos727 I'm still searching for one without ADM but everywhere here in southern cali, its going for at least $34K + fees. I found a used 2022 Si with 3K mileage at $34K, gonna take a look at it on monday.
@@jongjong Good luck dude. I've purchased cars out of state and paid the nominal shipping fee to skirt local ADM before. You might want to expand your search to 500 miles. Who knows, you might find a new example at MSRP with a ship fee between $500-2000. That's what I did for a GT350.
Having owned a 4th gen Prelude, 9th Gen Si, and Mk6 Golf TDI (and a NC Miata and an e46 currently), I can say I do not have strong brand loyalty, but based on your great review and others elsewhere I think I would go for the Civic for the more analog feel (of the driving) and to avoid all the touchscreen stuff!
As previous owner of a MK6 GTI I like this new one. Release of the new Si really grabbed my attention and was a serious contender. However, the GR86 checked all the boxes for me and that was my choice. I don’t think one could go wrong with the GTI or Si.
Same for me. I had a mk7.5 and went BRZ.
But aren't they different? I mean gr86 it's a 2 door coupe style of car,GTI and și are 4 doors sedans that can be a family car no?
The gas in the oil engine issue will continue with Honda. I think they are quiet about the situation and extended the warranty and offered software explanations for the root cause. I think that engine is too high pressurized and gets too hot. I cannot see buying this Honda if it starts developing issues at 60,000 miles. More oil changes does not quell this issue in my book either.
As for the GR easily marks all the boxes for me except the high octane gas....and 93 gas is going to skyrocket still.
The GR86 may be a very hot collectors item in 10 years. Almost S2000 worthy.....okay almost almost at least.
@@tamasbogdan9493 I was shopping fun and price point rather than package. Function over form but I do miss the utility on occasion. But for that we have a VW Alltrack, an old Rabbit 4D, and a 2011 CRV. So my case isn’t likely the same as others.
@@aroundomaha i understand your point,I just saying that those are practical but i saw alot of video with gr86 and vezi and they are really nice drivers car
rev match is great to have for daily driving, i don't have to think about engine speed, its just so smooth.
Great review, and both excellent cars for every reason you pointed out. I was stuck between the two. However, its ironic that in this day and age, the civic is the more expensive car (36K in my area) so I picked up the less expensive GTI S 6sp for 31.5K, and Im very pleased. Im curious why reviewers always choose the most expensive trim GTI, especially when comparing it to Civic.
It's crazy that a base model is $31,500. I bought a '18 Mk7.5 base for $21,500 three years ago.
Great review guys thank you!
I can't believe this is season 10 and I only found you guys in season 9...
and I'm a car guy! Outstanding channel, gentlemen. I love it.
Check out their podcast as well. A great addition to their videos.
Those seats look amazing in the GTI. And the metallic chartreuse is a great change of pace. Very European looking. But I think for the money I’d take the Si in red or black. That transmission is excellent and MPGs are really good.
Nice job as always! I am a former 2017 GTI owner who paid 26K for an SE with a manual, leather and the Fender audio. I honestly wish I still had it. In my mind the VW GLI is a competitor with the Si as they are both sedans and the interiors are similar. On paper the GLI costs more but… at least here in central Texas there are 3 Honda dealers within 20 miles. All 3 want significant markups for an Si. The first time I looked it was 5K on top of MSRP at all of them. I looked today and it’s $6500 at the closest one. I didn’t look at the others. There are also 3 VW dealers. I can order a GTI or GLI for MSRP and the ones in stock are $1000 over. That still sucks but I just can’t pay 36K for a car that doesn’t have seat heaters. I really don’t want cloth seats either. It also annoys me that they get a few more features in Canada for less money. If I could really find one for MSRP I would probably try it. I’m done with GTIs unless they fix the interior. I like the GLI because the high level of equipment and previous gen infotainment which was fine to me. Bottom line is that I rarely get to drive in a place where fun driving is really possible so I don’t want a car that is not easy to live with. I don’t mind a manual in traffic as much as a lot of people. The extra engagement is absolutely worth it. I don’t want to be engaged with the infotainment menus trying to change the temp.
The GLI is amazing and severely underrated, thank you for showing it some love. I would definitely take that over the Civic Si , especially the new generation 💯
I believe I got my MK5 GTI after watching your video over decade and a half ago, and still have that MK5 GTI! Good review gents.
Excellent review
Got a Red MK 8 SE in manual myself. Other than the occasional software glitch, it’s been awesome.
Let's be real for a moment. The GTI is way better to drive when you're not in canyon with drones filming you. 😂
Love my 23 Si. Wouldn’t but a car without watching your review first. Love everything about this car. Coming from a coyote mustang, you think I’d miss the power. But the handling, gas mileage, and practicality are amazing. Plus it’s a blast to drive. Flawless manual transmission! Was on the fence with the new gti, but so glad I went with the si
As someone coming from more powerful RWDers myself and thinking of an Si as a second car, could you go into more depth on how the Si compares to your old Mustang (mainly on the subject of driving dynamics). I'd love to hear what you prefer about the Civic or miss about the Mustang.
@@elenchus great question. The things I miss most from my mustang is: RWD, the sound, and the straight line power / speed. With the civic you won’t be winning any races or anything like that. Also not much engine or exhaust sound at all. But I find myself never missing my mustang. Speaking on driving dynamics, I honestly have more fun driving my civic than my old mustang. The reason for that is how refined the civic is. The handling is unlike any car I’ve personally driven. Feels like it’s on rails. The transmission is amazing. Won’t find anything better at this price point. Rolling through the gears is super satisfying and feels mechanical. Just feel so connected to the car. Auto rev mach is flawless. I wouldn’t call the civic underpowered either. When you throw in how well it handles, how nice the transmission and gearing is, I never find myself wishing it had more power. It’ so much fun driving the canyon/ mountain roads we have out here in Arizona. Even around town it’s a blast to drive. Does great on highway too. The fuel economy is also a huge perk. This is the first 4 cylinder car I’ve ever owned. All my previous cars were manual RWD V8’s , and Turbo 6 cylinders. Use to laugh at civics to be honest.. never would have ever considered a FWD either. The LSD is amazing on this car. Can send it into corners full throttle and it takes it no problem. The space, practicality of it all and how fun it is to drive make it all worth it. After doing tons of research, and watching hundreds of reviews I landed on the civic si and couldn’t be happier. I don’t think you’ll regret getting the civic si. It’s a great car. If you can find one a MSRP I’d suggest it 100 percent.
In SCCA Autocross this is the exact battle in GS. Lately it’s been the SI leading the way but the new GTI should provide for a good battle.
Love both cars and your channel. The base Gti has a different infotainment with a volume button and is only 31k. Not to mention the Jetta Gli which is also a sedan, with dual exhaust, adaptive suspension and the older infotainment and climate control interface with actual buttons and knobs. One trim that’s fully equipped for 32k. That may be the better comparison. The autobahn price is in the Type R territory and that’s a different animal. Can Honda USA please give us the Canadian Civic SI? Canada gets the better features for a cheaper price.
Nice clear verdict
I owned a MK7 GTI with 450 km on the odometer for around $29,000 CAD. It was one of the best, DSG, panoramic roof, leather seats, etc. I got it at the dealership, a demo model and drove it for 4 years. The reason it was so good was also because of the price. I remember hearing my friends say my interior was nicer than BMW 3 series at the time. It was such a bargain. But now that the price is getting so much higher in the Mk8, it gives you pause. You got it right. At this price range, I went with a used BMW 230i (F22).
Finally a review I wanted to see
When faced with the choice of straight line thrust vs nimbleness. I'll take the nimbleness.
Me too. Handling trumps power imho.
Nimble is fun. But to get a away from crap traffic and shit drivers, straight-line pull really helps.
So long as Hondata flash can get rid of rev-hang the width of the Pacific Ocean.
I think if you'd driven the base model this would have been a fairer test. Cloth seats, still some luxury features, still faster.
Great video what an awesome channel can’t believe I’m just now subscribing keep it coming guys !!!
We’re glad you found us. Thanks for watching and subscribing!
@@EverydayDriver your most welcome 🙏
It’s so funny that you guys mentioned that someone shopping for a GTI won’t also be shopping for an Si. I’m doing exactly that! Ive owned a MK 5, ,6, and 7 GTI as well as an 8th gen Si and have such fond memories of all of them for different reasons. Similarly, these two new cars are very appealing. I’ve driven them both and am not sure yet which I prefer. I think they are both pretty special
I was actually cross-shopping these two exact cars. I ended with the GTI though since markups on the Si were insane. The Si would have been maybe 2k cheaper, and it didn't make sense to get the Si at that price point. The GTI in SE trim just has so much more features.
The SI will also likely be more reliable and cheaper to maintain.
I just like to wonder if reliability really is a big concern for car enthusiasts.
If you really concerned about reliability, you shouldn't get a performance car at all. You should be looking at a base corolla or camry lmao
Car enthusiasts typically follow maintenance religiously anyways or they'll be forced to because they want to keep driving their fun car
@@WitchYuki22 Unless you're in a short duration race, then yes. Reliability is a concern for enthusiasts. At least of a certain age. Where do you think all those jokes about British or Italian sports cars came from?
I've had Japanese and German cars... holy crap just fan belts on a 1999.5 A4 1.8T was going to be over $300 because you have to remove the front bumper cover, disconnect the bumper struts, then slide the entire lock-carrier forward half a foot to be in "service position" just so you could remove one of the two alternator bolts. [Not loosen; you could do that. You just couldn't slide it out.]
It's nuts. German engineering my a... That's an annuity for mechanics.
Cost of parts/fluids for my '01 5-series... doing the labor myself... still so much more expensive than my non-German cars.
@EdwoodCA so if I treat a type R just like a base civic and only change its oil every 2 years, the type R will still be running like a base civic would?
Don't buy a performance car if you're not willing to do maintenance on it 😂
Great video!!
Please do a Civic Si vs GR86 video. It may seem weird to cross shop the two, but they are similarly priced and would help those of us trying to decide between really fun and fun/practical.
In the same boat. I put down a deposit for a GR86 a few months ago but was recently told I'll have to wait for the 2023 MY, so I'm now cross-shopping between fun 2dr/RWD car and practical 4dr/fwd car, even though they're so different. I really like the GTI but the infotainment seems awful and is turning me away from even considering it.
Not weird to me. It’s really just a question of what utility you need. Came out of a 2017 brz and - all things considered - provably more of a 2022 brz guy (don’t know for sure as I haven’t yet driven one).
I suppose I could have driven my 2017 brz for another year but put it on Autotrader and sold it in three days for stupid $. That made paying a mark up on the Si much easier to do.
I’ll likely drive the Si for three years and give it to one of my daughters or sell it and get a brz again when I no longer have to shove a field hockey goalie bag in a car.
Having said all that, while - for me - the Si represented a bit of a compromise for me, it’s a terrific car and I’m happy I bought it.
@@MrIAgreeToDisagree I own two mk8s (R and GTI) and the infotainment isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. You forget about the lack of knows quickly, but will take a little getting used to. Honestly I have very little complaints.
I work in the plant that builds the SIs, they're fun to drive, just not very impressive. The interior feels slightly dated, although it's all you really need. Both are very fun cars, and you'll be pleased with whatever you chose. 😀
@@MrIAgreeToDisagree Definitely drive the GTI and see then what you think. That's what I did, and it won me over, buttonless infotainment and all.
@@stms4411 I disagree, yes its wierd, its FWD vs RWD, you cut this question out for all the places that gets snow or at least have real winters. sport RWD is awful DD in winter. Also everyone know a RWD will kinda be more fun... but you need to have the temperatures for it.... without even trying them and knowing what I know: Summer country only 86 wins, 4 season countries SI wins hand down
I drove the Si and GTI as well as BRZ, WRX, Integra, GLI, and Elantra N, all 6MT. I went with the GTI (SE, which is $4K less than the Autobahn and in truth only $4K more than the Si, markups on either or both notwithstanding). I just found it all around the most comfortable, most sophisticated, and most fun to drive. I absolutely love the digital dash. You get used to the infotainment, though there's no question I'd rather have the Civic's HVAC controls. In any case, I think it's great we have so many reasonably priced sports sedans that still have the 6MT! Now if dealers would just stop adding so much markup over MSRP...
The SI is about 28400 after destination with summer tires sunroof and upgraded Bose sound system.
What was the MSRP after the destination of your GTI thanks.
@@Tigerex966 36,400. Si’s all have $3K-$5K markups around here, though some GTIs do too, sadly.
@@desertdriver7056 not everywhere, the west coast for sure.
@@Tigerex966 yeah hopefully we see those all go away soon regardless of vehicle.
@@desertdriver7056 I agree, hopefully automakers will make their own chips and stop relying on others or at least have a backup plan for absolute guages replaceable infotainment 2 din systems or even basic iPad mounts that can wirelessly hook to the car computers or simple smartphone display enlargement without apple carplay or Android auto, that would cut off videos when driving be touch just enlarging your screen.
Apple and Google don't need extra money from selling our info.
But then the carmakers will like Tesla dies now.
Ive always loved the GTI but this gen interior ruined it. I never thought as a GTI fan I would pick a Honda but I prefer the Civic. The interior is the deal breaker for me. Also for the price of the GTI a loaded Acura Integra A spec 6 spd will absolutely obliterate the GTI in terms of value.
It also totally obliterates the GTI in terms of its manual trans. That 6spd and clutch action is just so damn good and puts my previous GTIs manual to shame. Which should be no surprise to anyone. That's why I went DCT on my mk7 Golf R back in 2015.
I'd love to get the mk8 but like you said, the interior just kills it. Got to go into the fricking infotainment just to scratch my nuts in the mk8 lol. Forget that!
Honestly I'd skip both, the new civic is just a mini accord now, it's a good allarounder but it lost it's personality from the 10th gen. The new Golf interior is just bad. I'd go with a GR corolla or a Elantra N to be honest.
@@Toymonkeyjr performance wise, yeah for sure the Elantra N. It's near the top of my list even though I don't find it looks good. But the GR Corolla is gon start around 10K more than the GTI and civic. It's also going to have more PWR/TQ, and that trick AWD system with front and rear diffs etc. GR Corolla is in a different segment and those two cars can't compete with it like the MK8 golf R, 2017 Focus RS, and the type R (even if it is FWD).
Got to say I am incredibly excited to see this GR Corolla. Not excited to see what the dealers are going to be marking it up to 😒
Yeah the fact that the mk8 GTI/R is completely void of any hard buttons killed it for me too. People say you get used to it.. but I can't imagine myself having to go into the infotainment system for every little damn adjustment. Really is a shame cuz the mk8 cars are really great performance cars. No idea what VW was thinking with all that touch capacitive nonsense.
@@Daveyboy_GolfR The corolla will be the same price as the GTI believe it or not. 29k nets you the gti base trim, 30k will net you the core trim GR. It definitely competes with both. Why it's a better price is because it's toyota and not vw, so it's a lot less expensive in the US In Europe it'd probably be cheaper to go VW. It's basically going to ruin the hot hatch market. So if you can get one before they're sold out since they're in limited production (because toyota thought that would be cool) then go ahead.
Great video. I would love to see a GLI to SI comparison also
I love my 2022 Si. 100% worth buying
I’ve owned a 2014 Si, 2016 STI, and 2018 Type R and I miss the Si the most. So much fun to drive anytime, anywhere.
Same, had a 9th gen Si, and sometimes I miss all the drama of a n/a screamer.
In Europe we do not know SI so it"s not ICON for us. UE Compatitors for GTI are Peugeot GTi, Astra GSi, Megane RS, Focus RS, Type r. On streets it has to run like S3 a45 which we have a lot . GTI is better looking car - Si looks just like some car with Honda bedge - cheap styling. Gti is too expensive - its better to buy used S3/Rs3 od RWD BMW. Great shots - good job Guys!
I still miss my 08 Si coupe and I’ve owned a 15 Si coupe. I feel the 08 was more analog and fun. Now I have a 17 accord v6 coupe but still miss the nimbleness of the Si’s.
I love a Golf (and own one) but you're spot on, it has definitely lost some of its playful manner during its maturation over the years. Its the next natural step when you're ready to settle down a little and enjoy a more sedate drive and higher end interior with the occasional b-road blast .. BUT .. now they've made the interface so infuriating that it kind of misses the mark for me (and many others). I like the technology but it seems like they've skipped a generation in order to save and leverage development costs, and now this is the result.
I have both. Si is much better and the interior is superb without the awful touch screen. Si just feels so smooth driving.
Smooth? Horrible rev hang, cheap interior, boring exterior, weak engine.
@@oemj7147 have you driven one ? I literally own both cars. Si is so much better.
@@DownstreamV The SI is more tossable but the rev hang is atrocious and the car feels a lot cheaper than the GTI.
@@oemj7147 rev hand is fine and you can turn it off. Interior is leagues above the gti. That touch screen is absolutely horrible and the worst thing about the gti. Not to mention the gti has been in the shop 3 times with issues in less than 3000 miles.
Waiting for the Integra! Hot Hatch!
"If you want something fun, but you can only have one, which is it?"
2023 Acura Integra Manual.
Key considerations
1: Overall Horsepower less important than Horsepower per pound. The SI is Lighter
2: Handling: changing direction means changing momentum. Si is lighter and therefore switches direction easier
3: considering A manual? Honda on par with. BMW re “shift feel”. Add Rev matching and you’re in heaven.
4: They said: “VW is faster to 60…..but SI feels faster” given the above its not surprising
5/ Add reliability / gas mileage and the SI Should win?
IRonY : i might still choose the GTi 🤔
I see GTI's new start at 31k and new Civics at $28ish. 3k isn't that much money considering most people will finance their cars. But 10k is absurd amounts of money to pay over base trim.
My son was gonna get an Si… not at a 30% premium. Honda is crazy, or at least the dealer is.
This makes me very interested in what new typeR will be. If Honda keeps with the low key attributes and styling of the 11th gen SI I might be a buyer. Hopefully they aren't unattainable when it arrives.
they will be unattainable and marked up
I'm in the same boat as you, I love the Type R, it's the perfect do it all car for me but I just cant get myself to drive one that looks like a racecar like the current one. Pictures of next Type R proto are promising but undoubtedly the pricing will be astronomical.
The Si's already have $5k markups on them. Type R's will probably have $10k+ markups on them.
IF you can even find one it'll be over 10k sticker easily,
Expect about 15K markup.
Unrelated, but I went to check out the new Mazda CX-50 last month..the only one they had on the lot they were marking it up 10k over MSRP. Ridiculous
I'm so glad I got a MK7 Golf R instead of a new MK8 GTI. Literally everything about the MK7 is better than the MK8 platform (other than the MK8 R)
Good review it made me happy as Honda fan boy. Btw
I tested mk8 it's beautiful
I've always wished VW would sell the Polo GTI in North America, even as a niche offering. It's probably a flawed comparison to put it up against the Civic but if they could modernize it and make it cost competitive, they'd at least have something to offer at a lower price point. Of course, VW's future product portfolio basically just consists of electric crossovers and the way things are headed, we'll be lucky if the GTI even makes it to a tenth generation in the United States. Meanwhile, Honda makes the Integra into a premium hatchback right as VW quietly prepares to exit that segment. They probably won't admit to it, but they're certainly signaling it.
why do you keep saying the Si has 80 less horsepower? 241 in the GTi minus 200 in the Si = 41 less horsepower lol
Torque... there's an 80 lb foot difference in torque. Sorry about that. Thanks forw watching!
Yeah, I was confused about that too. 😂
The last time the Civic Si was available in a hatchback in the US was 2003. There was a "Sport" model with a manual available in the 10th generation, but not an Si.
correction, it was 2005 with the final year of the ep3 Si
I test drove both. Ended up buying the MK8 GTI. My wife hated the looks of the Civic. Plus we have dogs and a hatchback works well so there is that. I got the base model S. Plaid seats, manual, and you get knobs for the interface. The interface still sucks but the knobs at least give you the most all important volume control. Gonna' get the APR tune in the future, but dang... off the lot this thing is quick and i felt more involved with the engine then the civic SI - but this is subjective of course to our own personal taste. Both great values if you shop the right spec.
The price thing is an easy fix. Buy the S, it’s $32k…
The civic is missing one major thing… the HATCH!!!
yeah it makes no sense. Before, the sedans were made in North America and hatches in Swindon but now Swindon is closed so they should offer SI in hatch or both.
Acura Integra
The Civic Si only had 1 generation as a hatchback this century, I think people are very well adjusted to it being a sedan.
The 2004 Si hatch says hello.
@@shivamarya5225 7th,8th,9th,10th and 11th generation all exist entirely in the 21st century. Only the 7th was a hatch
@@shivamarya5225 No the SI was 2 door or 4 door without hatch in 10th gen. At least in North America
@@jamesmedina2062 he deleted his comment lol
@@doctorferdinand1003 and he was very emphatic haha
Excellent comparison review. Do both cars require premium gas? And how do they compare with miles per gallon?
Just picked up my 2022 Civic Si with only 15k on it and I'm loving it.
My first car was a gti and if the civic SI stayed with the k20 engine I'd rather have that engine updated in a modern car.
10th gen went down to a more simple and primitive engine you are right but the 11th gen covers the faults in a great way. Great exhaust tuning.
Only one worth getting is the new type r
You can get a base GTI for $32k 🤷🏻
I don't know why the are pretending a GTI is 10k over a si. Auto journalists are so japanese obsessed it's tragic. a GTI is so much nicer, and what a better DD.
Speed doesn't make a car. Is your car fun to drive, is what matters.
When you are not in your car for a few hours, do you get excited about it when you know you are about to drive it? Do you get excited about driving it because you know how much fun it is to drive?
With this in mind, Honda proudly presents to you, the all new 2022 Honda Civic Si.
Hey guys, thanks for the comparison. I think I drive that road you're on all the time. It really shows off the abilities of the Si in a way that makes you forgive almost any of its flaws (other than the awful piped in engine noise). I had the 2020 10th Gen for a couple of years, and that is the road where I learned to love that car's second gear, which I didn't really care for before I drove that road. I never really understood reviewers who dissed the 10th gen car without driving it on a mountain road. Mountain roads are what that car is engineered for, and you can't really understand the car without driving it on one. By the way, you should try the Genesis G70 on that road. It handles it as well as the Si does, but I have to adjust the timing of my brake and throttle inputs a bit, since it is rear drive only on mine. Still, that car really handles twisty mountain roads well, and it has less of a tendency to push wide in corners than the Si does. Though that front differential on the 10th Gen Si was remarkably good. It got rid of most of the push.
As a 10th gen si owner I wanted something a little more quiet and grown up for as a do everything/commuter car. GTI wins on paper, but man I love that Honda shifter and interior. Logic tells me GTI driving feel/emotions tell me SI. Tough decision.
I didn't know driving a slow car evokes emotion lmao
Those high strung little 1.5L engines are nothing like the K20 and K24. All Honda has improved is bringing the torque curve sooner and that's why the 10th and 11th gens feel faster than the 8th and 9th.
Never even mentioned the Veloster N Fun plus performance per dollar it can’t be beat
Agreed.
ep3 is my current hot hatch! honda fo life
While the Si is fun to drive, I'll stick with the GTI. For a daily driver it just offers so much more. Heated and ventilated seats, heated steering, plus vents for the rear passengers. The Honda missed the mark by not offering these features in the US Si (while they do in Canada, minus ventilated seats).
This makes me think the Integra really is perfectly positioned.
An Si, in a hatch, with all the goodies like adaptive suspension and good interior, splitting the difference in price perfectly between these two at $35k.
Personally I’d take the GTI. I like the Si especially in its new generation, it looks much better than the last one. But, I love that the GTI is a hatch, the design overall looks better than the Si imo, and it comes with features not even available on the Si (like heated seats, for whatever reason). I can deal with the infotainment system, every actual owner I’ve talked to doesn’t find it to be too bad. Also, I know the model you tested was 40k, but you didn’t really mention it’s available in a trim that’s around the same price as the Si with 80% of the content as the top trim.
If you compare base trim GTI to the SI, in Canada, the GTI actually comes out cheaper than the SI. With taxes and all fees included, the GTI S comes to about 38k vs the Civic SI which comes to 40k. For whatever reason, Honda vehicles seem to be extra expensive up in the north compared to down south, which makes the GTI imo the no brainer choice for Canadians.
The Canadian SI has so many more features than the USA plus the sunroof and upgraded stereo that the base GTI lacks
@@Tigerex966 true, but i don't know if i think those 2 features justify a 2k difference, especially considering that the GTI is noticeably more powerful and comes in a hatch. Id understand if the civic si was just flat out better, but it really isn't. When you consider that the Civic Si is under 2k in difference from the GTI Autobahn, idk I can't help but think the Civic Si is overpriced for what you get. Not to mention the Si is made in Canada whereas the GTI is imported from Germany, so there are various import taxes on the GTI that the Si doesn't have either. It feels like the GTI is priced on value whereas the Civic Si is priced with what they can get away charging people. Just my opinion though, I'm gonna test drive the Civic Si and compare it to the mk8 gti, could be the civic just feels 10 times better to drive than the gti, i just have my doubts
@@AK-ZL1 GTI is faster no doubt in a straight line, and the hatch has a bigger opening and you can fill it to block the back window, but the SI actually has more real world actual cargo room just a smaller opening, so bulky items are harder to load, and less rear head room.
The rev match shifter clutch lsd have been said by almost every reviewer to be better and more precise and fun in the SI, sharper handling.
Let's not talk infotainment.
Obviously the GTI has a more powerful engine and is faster in a straight line, better brakes and more comfortable ride.
You gain some features and lose some in the base form, some would love heated seats fog lamps heated steering wheel rear vents USB mirror signals led interior lighting better looking full digital dash over a sunroof and Bose sound system.
Canadian SI is much better equipped.
Having said that the SI is still $3-4k less.
Is 1 second 0-60 worth that?
Not to mention reliability service maintenance costs, and resale value. Mpgs.
Both are great, I love both, it's a great choice to have to make, my current SI is from 2007 still going strong besides the paint fade and some rust, and I still see a lot of 8th gen going strong.
Not that vws are unreliable, just that Honda have a better overall record on that, and if something goes wrong it should be less were cost to fix because they sell so many, and Honda is much more lenient with warranty claims even if you do your own oil filter etc they don't deny as much as VW.
@@Tigerex966 honestly after taking a good solid look at the two, I think its really just that I don't value comforts that much. My first car was a tiny econobox with not a single feature (not even AC), so honestly to me as long as I have AC I'm fine and comfortable. If I had the choice, I'd buy the US Spec and save money on things I don't really value, in that case I'd lean definitely more towards the Si hands down. I feel like once you toss in those features I don't really care for, you start to lose me with the cost im paying for the performance I'm getting. To each their own though, the Si is still a great car, and truth be told, I'll probably end up getting one over the GTI anyways due to the reliability trainwreck the GTI mk8 has been.
@@AK-ZL1 i was not aware of reliability problems with the? mk8
Just picked up a 2024 Civic Si. Can’t complain at all.
I'm gonna have to give the edge to the Si because I prefer the styling more but the GTI is also a good choice for someone who wants that extra practicality.
@Bry Zeer It’s all personal preference. Looks are subjective.
To be fair the GTI you guys tested is a top level Autobahn with all of the boxes checked. An S will be equipped similarly to the SI and only a little more expensive. Both great cars no doubt. I choose a MK7 GTI because I wanted the refinement during the day-to-day, but enough fun when I wanted it, and I couldn't be happier with the decision.
@@layne4376 Wrong. Per the manufacturers' websites here is everything you get with a $40k GTI that you don't get with a $30k SI. I've gone ahead and * the expensive stuff....:
*Leather Seats
*Heated Front Seats
*Heated Rear Seats
*Ventilated Front Seats
*Heated Steering wheel
Power Seats
Memory Seats/Mirrors
19” Wheels
*Limited Slip Differential
Rain Sensing Windshield Wipers
*Heads Up Display
VW logo puddle lights
**Adaptive Suspension
LED Fog Lights
Auto Dimming Rearview Mirror
3-zone Climate Control
30 color interior ambient lighting
SI is more comparably equipped with a GTI S trim which starts at $29k....
@@brianfloster2609 VW isn’t gonna give a base model GTI for car reviewers to test they use what there are given
@@f181234 I’m well aware of that. The previous commenter (layne) was just saying that the Autobahn that is tested here is comparably equipped to the SI tested here which is just not factually accurate…
@@brianfloster2609 yeah but base gti s doesent have a sunroof, wireless carplay and a premium sound system, so still more expensive for a comparable trim and still less fun with the worse infotainment
@@brianfloster2609 19 inch are unnecessary and SI has LSD
On the track and street in an all out race the gti would mop the floor with the civic si.. that’s why it’s 7k more.
Great video, may get an 11th gen for my daily but I think the 9th gen Si was the best
The Mazda 3 hatchback is a more compelling choice for me. All around in terms of styling, performance and interior quality, it just ticks more boxes for a one car solution.
and in terms of customizing options Mazda 3 is the king now
@@layne4376
again, an all around performer for every day use, the Mazda 3 is hard to beat Now if you want a stiff uncomfortable ride for track days, then of course, you have other options. Most Mazdas handle quite well, and are praised for their driving dynamics by most automotive reviews . Watch Everyday Driver's review of the Mazda 3 Turbo AWD.
No turbo with a manual engine
Idk, I love the interior, but the high rising doors (putting your arm on the window sill while cruising? good luck) make it look ugly to me.
@@layne4376
You're right! I should have mentioned that i have a 2016 2 5L NA hatch .
I drove the new one and i was not convinced. it seems since Mazda is going up market, they compromised the handling for comfort ,hence the beam axle. Also, everyone seems to be going to small displacement turbos. Partly due to CAFE requirements and how easy it is to boost power. I personally prefer NA engines, not as strained. Plus I can't imagine the repair bills once the warranty expires . Lastly, i think about 200 BHP is the sweet spot for FWD cars. Less torque steer and traction problems.
Currently own Mk7 GTI, super excited for the updated MK8, I have no issues with having no bottons, same thing happened with smartphones. Have only driven a couple 2020 civic SI’s and it just didnt get moving like I was expecting. However it really hurts paying that much for a GTI! Love both cars but the Euro hatch still has my heart
Smartphone are not the same as controlling a dangerous car and going through touch menus at the same time.
@@Tigerex966 You are not supposed to be using your phone or your touch screen while driving. And, I believe you have all of the necessary controls on the steering wheel. Do you have to look down at the shifter when you change gears? My point being, you will learn where the buttons are on the wheel for what you need while driving.
@@t.k.morristhey're oldheads bruh lol
They probably type with one finger 😂😂
Car makers need to understand - minimalist does not equal functional. Somewhere a while back, everyone got obsessed with how Tesla put everything in a screen (imo it's obnoxious, all-show one-trick pony, just like the car itself), and it's not the minimalism or futurism that got them interested, it's the cost. Honda only needed to remove the volume knob to get chewed out, and VW just went HAM. Pretty certain VW will pull the same move as Honda on the next generation and put actual buttons back on.
Thanks for the top quality work as usual! It's interesting the Civic SI feels as fast as the GTI with the power difference! I don't know if I would consider it a competitor being that much less expensive and powerful. I really like the color on this GTI. Super unique for sure. I don't think I've seen one reviewer give praise to the controls or entertainment system so I would hope VW will be changing this in the future MVIII.5?
The Civic does seem like great value for the money but I would definitely go with the GTI but I'm pretty loyal to VW even if I'm loosing my butt on their stock. As a VW guy we always considered Honda the "Dark Side". 😝
I think the appropriate comparison would have been with the GTI "S" model...that's much closer in price. Then, the comparison is really about whether or not you want a more "mature" hot hatch or a slightly watered down "boy racer". The GTI "S" wins for me...and give me the DSG. I'm getting older and my clutch leg gets tired in traffic! Besides, thanks to Paul I have a 6 speed Boxster S for that kind of driving! Great review and cheers guys!
Even if they had the same price, civic si is just more fun on twisty roads.
Now if I could only find a GTI S manual…
I found one in silver
@@Mr99Burns
Nice! I was able to get an SE manual three weeks ago in Atlantic Blue.
Very lovely done. Content, aesthetics, pacing, editing and more. But not overdone , just like the Civic SI.
Glad you found us and enjoyed watching this. Thank you!
These aren’t even a comparison. I’d take the GTI any day of the week.
I really like the new GTI and Golf R, but I absolutely hate the all touch screen lay out. Hopefully VW revert back to physical buttons in the refresh.
I think there are a lot more physical buttons in the Base "S" trim GTI. I feel like a GTI S would be a much better comparison to the Si than the Autobahn that they drove
@@joespittle1 Honestly, I like base models more because outside a few commodities I'm used to not having, it's still great fun and performance!
I like the look. One thing to consider is that reviewers don't have time to learn the car, so after some time the touch screen may seem better.
@@joespittle1 I own an S. They added the volume and navigation knobs with a smaller screen, that's it, everything else is the same
I'm looking for a replacement for a Focus ST. I've yet to drive an Si (Honda dealer is being stingy with test drives), but I had the chance to drive the GTI. I can't agree more with Todd's assessment of the car. It's great, extremely capable, and fast. I just didn't find it fun. It is a precision crafted instument that gets the job done, no more, no less. I was missing the drama, theatrics, and sensations that make my current car so much fun.
Would it be slower if it had those things? Possibly. But I wouldn't care. It's like what they used to say on Top Gear... It would be better if it were worse.
Take a veloster N for a spin. Never thought I'd own a Hyundai until I did.
@@jamesluna162 I have, it's actually too small for what I really need. Back seat is also a little too compromised. 😕
@@genericasian the Elantra N might be a good pick for you then. Although it's not the best looking, and it has more refinement, so it might not be as fun
@@jamesluna162 I really like the elantra N, but the corners Hyundai cut on the interior bothered me. No split fold rear seat, no cup holders in the back, hard touch plastics everywhere, and no sunroof if you went with the manual.
Yup, I'm picky. Though I do have money put towards the new Integra...
@@genericasian I'm surprised you like the Integra. $36k for 200hp seems like a horrible deal to me
The new SI makes me SOOO excited for the new Type R. Honda is the king of making driver centric sporty cars. Reliable, affordable, and one of the best handling cars of all time in the Type R, which the new SI shares alot of its components with.
Great video. My only comment is about price. A quick look on Autotempest and I saw prices used Civic Si to be $36k up to 41k. And GTI Autobahn going for around $41k. So the actual price difference is not 10K. But that having been said, this would be a tough choice. I would have to drive both for sure, as well as the new Integra with the same engine and then decide.
To be honest I would just get the gti at that price. The civic si is nice and handles amazing but it’s not a 36k car. I come from a civic si and want the new one but at this point a 2022 GTI S is 32k and I would rather have that.
I actually heavily cross shopped both of these. Ended up going with the gti. In love with it. Infotainment is overblown completely. Car is on rails and I prefer it over the gti. And my biggest issue is comparing a GTI autobahn to the si. My gti s was under 30k and it’s a perfect comparison to the si.
Love the plaid seats! All that extra power doesn’t hurt either. (And easily added future power)
Gti s doesent have a sunroof or wireless carplay or a premium sound system
@@shivamarya5225 not important things to everyone
@@kc510 but having them doesent hurt either
Loving my Civic Si! With some mods, I'm sure they can compete in power with the GTI. Just reflashing the ECU, the car feels way better and more fun. Great video!
Stage 2 FBO for both GTI & slow SI
Si is still slow lmao
@@lucienl9465 yup but for the GTI price I can grab a type R 🤙🏽
With some mods, gti will lose si...
The last real Si was 8 th gen civic, 2.0l 200 hp real VTEC engine, such a masterpiece, screaming 8300 RPM, then civic's become more and more heavier, bigger and underpowered, loosing the charm
@Gurgen Makaryan 200hp with less than 140lbs torque Vs. 200hp with almost 200lbs torque :) Also, Hondata claims that 11th gen Si has 222 wheel horsepower. I have 8th gen and 11th, and let me tell you that my 11th gen is way faster and more fun to drive.
I've owned a '91 CR-X Si, '94 Civic Si, '94 Prelude Si, '09 Civic Si and '12 Civic Si. Now I own an '11 GTI and can say I was missing out quite a bit driving the Hondas. The later Si's ('06+) have LSD, which is something the GTI crucially needed for a long time. But it's just...a very fun to drive car, not that the Si isn't. However, I like the new Si better than the new GTI on looks alone. The GTI looks frumpy now. I think the best years were Mk5-Mk7. We all know the Si has had frump years too! ('02-05 and '12-13 coupes)
Bought an 1981 Rabbit Convertible. It had full GTI livery. Amazing little converible.
I remember those! Wow what a classic! Good find.
@@blazonbyrd5996 $600 and I drove the wheels off it - for real. One of the "stub hubs" broke off one cold night... and the right rear wheel passed me! Repaired and hooned on ;)
@@bmwloco LoL Good save! Those were quick, lightweight & all sorts of fun to drive. I have an 86 Maxima for nostalgia purposes.
I had a sub-$300 GTI lease and loved it so much I went to lease another one. Until 5 different dealerships told me "forget about it, this car had its lease deal ruined".
So I got a Stinger GT instead. Thank you Volkswagen for bumping me up and away from your overpriced cars.
Why no G70 instead?
@@exothermal.sprocket Way more expensive and I wanted a liftback and more rear legroom. G70 does drive better though.
@@suserman7775 I guess if you're comparing new to new, yes. Used G70 with 3.3T are available searching around.
I am one of those rare breeds that have both. I have two 10th gen Civics and a 19 MK7.5 GTI S 6MT. I see the merits in both.
I’ve always been a fan of the Golf family, have the MK7 Golf and love its blend of practicality, economy, refinement, and Audi “light” level of quality inside. I’ve been eyeing the new GTI or even the R if I can convince myself I need one, but with the current prices, especially the autobahn model, shoot…that’s knocking on the door of the new 230i with classic BMW RWD and balanced weight distribution, and a noticeably higher quality interior... I fear the GTI will become like the Mini, if it hasn’t already, in that they become price prohibitive to the casual shopper, with only the die hard fans buying them because that’s all they want.
I don't know where you get $40000. I only pay $31000 for my car $600. I had it tuned and it's a rocket ship and I love it