The JAPA-Neve Console, First look and Tear Down Yamaha PM700
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- Опубліковано 22 жов 2023
- In this video we take a look at the Yamaha PM700 mixing console. Full over view and tear down. I intend to make another video where I will be recapping the board, so be on the look out!
Unbelievably loud!! NO WONDER YOU SOLD THIS PEICE OF JUNK!!!!
Hi,
I'm Nabil, 30 years old from Morocco and I also have a big addiction on old gears.
Thank you for the review !
This just popped up on Facebook marketplace in my town. Then here you are posting a video a few hours ago lol
It’s a sign from the gear gods 😂
@HeightsLabOfficial No, seriously, this had to be a glitch in The Matrix. Because no one else has a video on this 🤣🤣🤣 I was like there's no way in hell. He just Uploaded a video About this 🤣 🤣
@@HeightsLabOfficial But yeah the gear gods are gonna make me go broke
@@CaptinNimo 😎 The YamaGate Conspiracy
I got a 1604. I will track with it from time to time.
I have a smaller version of this, the pm430. Looove it for thickening guitars, synths, drum-machines and stuff while recording. I was wondering how the -50dB setting on the main-outs might be usefull 🤔 which preamp could this benefit from?
..also, not to be rude but, ..aren't you like, ..an audio engineer?! 😅😂 ..the audio is pretty bad and the video just suddenly stops.. what's the point?
It's such a nice console! Pls. do a proper video, describing the tests, repairs, mods,.. recording through it, using the send/return, summing a mix through it,.. It would be so very interesting!! ✌️🫶
Hi, any opinions on the 1608M monitor desk (early 80s) ? Is it any good as far as pres go?
The 1608M is actually apart of the later MC series, no the same but not bad, the circuits are not discrete so you may have general old gear issues (gross talk, noise, etc), I have worked on the 2404 many times and like them. If you can get it for cheap I say give it a try.
Thanks for the reply- it sold unfortunately..
@@HeightsLabOfficial
Gorgeous desk my man. I’m part 2 please tell us where it came from.
Thanks! And I got it off Facebook marketplace
I love all the double slap echoes on your voice. Midway through your video. That's very cute. You don't have to tell us why you did that. We already know.... LOL.
Yes that's a groovy little mixer. It only weighs about 100 pounds! It'll give you a hernia. I have one. I got it for free. They threw it in with my, 36 input, 1972, custom-built for NBC-TV News in Washington DC... Original Rupert Neve console. And they threw this one in with it. It came from Studio A. We used it for some PA work. But it was big and heavy and clunky. And they got some newer smaller more lightweight, Yamaha portable mixers. For when we needed some PA stuff in the studio. As we certainly didn't use them for recording.
But in fact. They do sound like and are referred to as a Baby Neve. Because they are basically a Japanese clone.. Of said consoles. Only the transformers are God awful! Really really horrible!
I mean they sound fine. If you're going to use it in a Hybrid recording manner. And you're using that as your Neve sounding input source. That's fine.
But do not think for a moment. You are going to loop through this piece of crap. More than once. Because when you loop through it, two, three, four times. It's going to turn everything to nondescript mud. It will sound horrible. It is horrible. It's only good for once through sound. Not twice through or more. It's horrible sounding. I had a world of problems with the PM-1000 version 16 x 4. And that had better EQ in the mid-band. I don't like my mid-band EQ at 1 kHz thank you very much. I like it better between 3 and 5 kHz. Not cardboard box sounding 1 kHz. Ugh!
And so this here. Was produced on a PM-1000 in 1979. It's a series of Jingles and commercial demos with those Jingles. I did for a Major Advertising Agency. When I was 22 years old. And I had this lousy PM-1000 handed to me to record upon. What a nightmare! I hated it!
But now I also have this PM-700. And it does sound like a Neve. If you use it as your input source only. Do not mix through it. What you have recorded with it. Because that's a second loop through. And it's going to turn to nondescript mud the second time through. You will be boosting your high-frequency EQ pot. Then everything will start to sound, shrieking. And you'll need a high-frequency limiter then. To, tone that down a bit. To make it listenable. Otherwise it will not be listenable.
soundcloud.com/remyrad/remygolnickjinglesotdemomb2
I mean it's all kind of silly. This is 9 analog generations down no noise reduction. From sticky tape. Transferred in 1996. It's all damage destroyed junk tape to begin with. Only meant for home demos. As these are not the 15 nor the 30 IPS master copies even. These are the 7.5 IPS home demo copies. 1/4 track stereo. And it kind of held up. As I produced these back in 1979 when I was 22. As the production process I went through. Would boggle your minds. It was beyond deep and involved. I had to modify equipment. I had the plug things in and set things up a certain way. I needed tape recorders both on my left on my right. It was quite a process. Some of these have 72 overdubbed channels. I used, Virtual Analog Tracks. Everything is synchronized by fingertip and flown back in by hand. One track at a time. To a Master 8 Track. From which I then mixed down from. And then made copies of those. And made copies of those. To make this home copy. And everything is about 9 analog generations down. I think it's pretty funny sounding. If you knew how awful the process was I went through to get this.
You are listening to Miami's hottest rhythm section. Along with the Miami Symphony Orchestra. All inside a voice over booth. Originally designed for 4 announcers. And then we moved in a grand piano. And 13 musicians. At a time. In this dead box studio. The whole process goes beyond the way Sgt. peppers was produced. And funny, to mention that.
As these Jingles. Back in the early 1980s. Got played. For somebody who was fundamental, Producing Sgt. Peppers. George Martin the producer. This got played for him. This actual demo. As I was sitting there rather embarrassed. And then he asked me how I produced this? Well that took about one half hour to explain. And he offered me work. So what's that tell you? Nobody knows who I am because they don't need to. I get to remain Anonymous. I am just an, Audio Engineer. Like Bill Schnee. Like Bruce Swedien. Like George Massenburg. Like Bob Clearmountain. Like Geoff Emerick. And I know all those guys personally. Some better than others. We are all in the same club. Audio Dweebs. And always have been.
It's funny because I met George Massenburg when I was 15 and he was 23 and had just opened up his first real studio, ITI. From which the famed Parametric Equalizers came from. ME-230 I think they were called? They were nice. I didn't have any of my own. I used some elsewhere. They were real pretty. And I knew I would be like George Massenburg one day. But never got as famous. Oh well? That would have been nice but? Only a few get lucky. I didn't get that kind of lucky. I had other lucky. Like 2 Vintage Neve consoles I used to use at NBC. Practically handed to me one day. Once in 1996 and again in 2008. When they called me up and told me to come pick up my console. I won the bid. I don't think anybody else bid? My bid was too low. It should have never been approved. It was stupid low. But when you do good things for a major TV network? For many years. You don't get wealthy. You get rewarded. One way or the other.
It's all a great thing to do if you can get the work. I got some good work.
RemyRAD
these were common when I was doing live sound in the 1990s in small/medium venues
I still have one of these. Bought it new. It's in mint condition still - very little use. Would love to be able to hook it up to a DAW but I am not technically minded.
8 inputs two stereo out puts to the recording inputs of your daw/interface. Use the 8 inputs of the mixer to record or mic or connect to a guitar etc use the eqs and preamps of the mixer send the stems to your daw. ✌🏽
Many ways, there aren’t direct outs so the best way would be - A. As a hardware insert in your DAW, you can get 4 outs on this console if you use the mains panned hard L and R, the monitor, and effects send. This will give you the ability to have recall somewhat also if you document your settings. Option B, use it as a summing mixer and group your tracks to be sent from the out outs of your interface to the 12 inputs on the mixer, then back out of the mains on the Yamaha into 2 inputs of your interface to print the sub mix. Message me if you have any questions.
@HeightsLabOfficial Thanks for your reply and suggestions. Option B appeals to me. I'll look into that. Cheers
The PM700 doesn't come close to the PM1000. That's the gem you wanna find. It doesn't have the same inductors and transformers as the true "Japa-Neve" PM1000.
I LOVE old Yamaha consoles. I always thought one of these 700s would be a sweet little sidecar for tracking. That said, this is not a Japaneve. Not even close. The PM1000 is what some people call the Japaneve because it's class A w/ inductor EQs. This is not class A, it's A/B, and in fact it's not even discrete.
EDIT: Below I said the head amp was discrete, but I found the schemo and it turns out I was wrong. Sorry about that. The inputs strips are all IC based. I had been under the impression it as more closely related to the 2K/M15. Sorry for any confusion.
The "head amp" (mic pre) as Yamaha called it is a super cool API 2520 copy, so I guess it's closer to an API than Neve, but an API it is not. After the head amp, there are IC chips sprinkled throughout this thing. Also, I'm guessing this has the same or similar EQ design as the PM2000/M1532, which is a gyrator design, not inductor. If it's like the 2K/M15, the EQ points aren't great either. The good news is, there are mods available for all of this! JLM makes little adapters for either upgrading the ICs or converting them completely do discrete 2520 style DOAs. They also make a wicked inductor EQ mod for the 2K/M15 that I bet can be used on your console. Joe could probably help you figure out how to make it work. With a little work, I bet this thing can punch way above its weight class. But comparing it to a Neve is silly. It shares almost nothing in common with the legendary Neve models. People have been getting these confused for the 1Ks for years now. We have a little Facebook group for 2K/700/M15 users and fans going. Come check it out. We'd love to hear more about your project!!!
Sounds like you have enough experts in your group already! Thanks
@@HeightsLabOfficial ok
Is not the 1k neither. It’s the 2000 that really shines.
Can you share a link to your Facebook page? I have a few Yamaha desks and would love some info
Hey mate can you link me to that Facebook page please 🙏
rear panel and guts look just like a late 70's Yamaha MC series. wonder how close they really are.
Well? It's a mid-1970s, mixer. It's better than the MC, series. It's actually, Japanese clone circuitry of a Neve. But with Yamaha shitty transformers. The transformers are miserable. Good for once through, only. You don't want to go through them, twice. They don't hold up, going through, twice. Everything turns to nondescript, mud. So don't do that. Track with it. Mix with it. But don't do both with it. You'll be sorry if you do. Otherwise? It'll sound like a Neve. Going once through only. Just so you know what you're getting yourself into. As I've had both, PM-1000 and PM-700. And an, $85,000 custom 1972 Neve. And yeah. They sort of sound like a Neve. Once through, only.
Get yourself one for tracking purposes only. You'll like it. It can sound like this:
soundcloud.com/remyrad/remygolnickjinglesotdemomb2
This is what I Produced, Recorded, Mixed and fought with the Yamaha PM-1000. To produce this when I was just, 23 years old. And this required. That I had to create. Complicated New Recording Techniques and Procedures. To accomplish this production. Back in 1979. While these are,, consumer, 7.5 IPS, 1/4 Track, garbage used tape, demos. Which is all I had left. When the studio went up in Flames. But the jingles got used for the next, 20 years. And made the advertising agency, hundreds of millions of dollars. Like a hit record/records. And all with just, 4 pairs of microphones. Not enough headphones to go around. Requiring a new studio technique. I managed to pull off when I was 23 years old.
I am now retired at 68. And thought you would enjoy hearing what a Yamaha PM-1000/PM-700, sounds like. Almost like a Neve. But I had to do things. This audio mixer console was not up to the task for. I hated it. I actually wanted an, API 1604 but the boss said no. You have to use that thing. Ugh! So I did. And regretted it throughout the production. But it had the sound I needed to have.
And I thought you would like to know.
RemyRAD
I used to have a PM430 and a PM180 (same realm as this) and I now have an API console.
These units are by no comparison anything close to sounding like a Neve, and even tho the circuit design is more similar to API overall once again it’s not even close.
These are noisey units, always in need of major maintenance when you get them plus direct out install for proper functionality. They can be made to sound “okay” with work from a proper tech and some electronic upgrades but those are costly and if you just spend that cash and get one amazing channel strip from neve or api you could record much better music I guarantee it.
Think so? Well good thing I am in fact a proper tech then!
@@HeightsLabOfficial that definitely changes the value proposition for you then! my comment is mainly for viewers as it seems attractive to buy a cheap console and imagine it will function to anywhere close to a "good one". they're not useless by any means just most new engineers will probably splurge for something like this before one single very good pre/ channel strip and that's problematic
@@simonaustin1136 No problem, nothing wrong with that pov! I want them to see the opposite, I got this for $75 and a real neve channel will be ATLEAST $750. No it’s not the same but the 80100 opamps are very similar to the 2520 API used. If they watch the whole video they will see exactly how much noise one has, and honestly it’s less noisy than the Neve 5116 I’m working on now. Thanks again for the input!
dude for real @simonaustin Absolutely 100% facts this dude is on youtube talking about his first ever mixing board he bought like its actually worth $150 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Look im not saying start throwing these away or parting them out or turnjng them into channel strips. Just everyone chill because its not time to reingineer old pm700s. Save the pm700s and get them to a good good tech but you need like $1500 to save this board. Starting with making the PsU external. Look im just sahing. This is likea rainy day project board in like 10 years we might have the time to build out. But bro. Yamaha MG32FX. Buy that board and a boatload of cinemag or jensen tranformers and float all the line ins and try using the mic pres as line ins for a second flavor. Way simpler mod. Throw some bipolar caps in cheap places in that board and float all your ins and outs and make sure your external preamps have output transformers. Presto youve got a shot at something useable at a pro level. Can it be done with a PM700? In theory yes, but like when im telling you its an expensive difficult slow proposjtjon... there are a thousand other boards out there 75% closer to being "done" than a yamaha and a soundtracs isnt one of them
I will admit the faders on a pm700 are awesome but also wierdly niche. Time just simply moved a different direction in terms of electronic protocols and tendencies, but if you have one dont get rid of it just wait until one day you fix it up real crazy or sell it cheap to someone willing toput 1250 in it
Okay i figured out the formula for the MG32FX . Buy a bunch of the cheapest Edcor transformers as many as you can afford and just recap the PsU. Done. What i am saying is PM700 is not low hanging fruit. A little bit later board and some cheap transformers would go a lot further for a lot less headache
Brooo 😅😂 that Autofocus as you were filming the back.. wtf? 😂 just record it again if it turns out THIS shity!
Shi… this noise is killer. Would not pay for this more than 200$ nowadays. This is not a good console.
Do you want something musical and not noisy? Grab a good bigger Soundtracs in-line console and with a Blue Dog PSU. Thank me later.
mehhh, .... its an old piece of crap. Noisy AF. Old doesn't always mean good. And that coming from a 53 Year old veteran musician. There are better vintage choices out there.
Bro just get you a burl b2 and be done
I like Ramsa better
Japaneve : chances are the term comes from people who have never heard or touched a Neve. It's "almost" discreet and has a transformer so it SHOULD sound like a Neve. Right? Oh well...
😂
Nahhh . We have a bcm and all the variants of the PM and M series consoles. The Yamahas have that big thing too, maybe not as much or as distinctly British sounding, but they definitely deserve hype.
These older m and pm consoles sound incredible once you clean up the faders.
Oh honey baby child? Listening through this or trying to? Where's your audio?
I am disappointed you are so Green. I thought. I was going to see and hear a nice usage of this as a hybrid interface device to your computer. Plugged into a, stereo USB audio gizmo. But what are you doing?
There is this thing called the blind leading the blind. But you have to find the room that the blind are in, first. And what are you doing turning up inputs with nothing there? We don't want to hear the thing hissing like a pit full of snakes. What's that all about?
Look? You take a portable CD player. You put your favorite musical, very musical, CD in. You plug the headphone jack of your CD player into an input. It doesn't have to be stereo. It just has to have one channel of audio. A signal source as we say. So you don't have to be talking into a microphone you don't have turned up. And you can rely upon a VU Meter. By watching it dance around to the music. To know that you are generating signal at the output we can hear.
So all in all honey baby child. You push the orange faders. All the way up to the line marked, zero as in, 0.
Then. With this, PM-700. It only has, Balanced, XLR, inputs. And they can be either microphone inputs. At those -50 settings. Or a high level line signal. At +4 to the input. When you select +4. That's line level input. But it is balanced with 3 pins on an XLR. So?
You will need a couple of, convenient and available adapters. You will need, 1/4 inch, TRS.. Tip, Ring, Sleeve connection. To a,, 3 pin male, XLR, connector. But you will also likely need a, Transformer DI, Direct Injection, box. Which accepts an unbalanced, Tip & Sleeve only, 1/4 inch male connector. And it has a, XLR output connector. You plug into the Yamaha mixer. These 2 adapters. Will allow you to plug in virtually anything. Into your lovely Yamaha mixer. Because they never included any 1/4 inch unbalanced inputs. The dummies! I mean what the hell? But this was around 1976 so? Everybody was not quite up to speed altogether back then. I'm from that time. And before. So I remember when that was new. And mine is still virtually new. Yours looks real good. That's real clean. That's real stock. That's not been, abused much. I bet it came from a church? It was only used on Sundays. In the multipurpose room. Which didn't always get used. It looks virtually new. So does mine. It sat in Studio A. For most of its, existence. And rarely got used. So mine is still practically new.
But I really hate the transformers. They are just dreadful. And with some Jensen, Reichenbach, Neve, transformers. I think it would be a whole lot better. Because I really hate these transformers. They really are awful sounding. Once through, okay. But that's it. I need a transformer I can go through as many times as I want to. And it's not going to screw nor destroy my sound.
Now outfitting that thing with all Neve transformers would be, hideously expensive to begin with. But then. You might be able to take your audio through one half dozen times. With no audible degradation like this has. Like these have.
You don't need the schematic as much as you need the, operation instruction manual. Really you do. This was really a horrible demonstration of what? What did we hear? We certainly couldn't hear you half the time. You were too busy to check this before you posted it. And you are trying to say what? You are trying to fix and/or modify what?
Do you know your hands are reversed?
RemyRAD