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Why the AMS Neve 8424 is Still a Joke (Follow Up)
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- AMS Neve thought they could sell a low featured console to the masses. They were wrong. Adam details why the 8424 is a waste of money.
0:00 - Back Story
0:32 - Trident 68
1:05 - Audient ASP4816
1:32 - Looptrotter 8 Channel Modular
2:13 - API The Box 2
2:48 - AMS Neve 8424
4:16 - What Adam Would Buy
![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/48PxwspDvrE/mqdefault.jpg)
This console is not for conventional recording. It's for mixing engineers, who moved "In The Box" but wanted to mix with faders in their home studio, draw automation by hand, use motorized faders for recalling, and has small amount of outboard gear for mixing and line inputs on console for summing. And if they want to record something, they simply use outboard preamps. The point is that you don't understand the purpose of this hardware and compare consoles that do different things. From Neve web-site: "The 8424 console is designed to fit the needs of the modern hybrid studio where the speed of in-the-box workflow is enhanced with the ultimate sound quality of analogue outboard gear" So the only joke is your meaningless rant.
exactly plus large format consoles are phasing out any way as consoles are getting smaller that are cut down versions. You often see many of these cut down consoles installed in an Argosy Console desk for Hybrid mixing and some times an Argosy desk without a mixer with Outboard.
Glad someone said it. I love this channel normally but he's completely missing the point. I get that you can get a console with more preamps, no one is disputing that. But this is kind of a niche product for guys who don't want or need all those onboard preamps. Also, everyone knows just the name Neve comes at a premium. Kind of a silly rant, imho.
@@p0llenp0ny If you need more preamps, just order one or a few 1073OPX(s), which can be remote controlled and recalled along with the desk.
then why not buy something like ssl neuclus? why to buy this? That 4000$ ssl neucleus has everything you just mentioned. Why to spend 24 grand for the same, oh sorry less lol as it does not even have daw controll LOL!!!!!!!!!
@@BrijeshSarin The 8424 have DAW control as an option if you need that.
So, it IS a DAW controller. It's fully analog and has 24 inputs, not two. It isn't really a summing box because you tie it into your interface. It's actually quite flexible. I feel like you didn't really do much research on what this console really is. It's designed for smaller setups that already have a bunch of outboard gear, but want something to speed up their workflow and make recording and recall easier. It's a small desk with a lot of large format console features, including the monitoring section, which most of your comparisons don't have, at least not as in-depth.
Yes, it does have two preamps on it, both with transformers built in, but you have failed to do an ACTUAL comparison against all your other "great" mentions.
Personally, I've spent the last couple years console shopping and to be quite honest, for my budget and the features I need, this is actually the ideal console for me. It has literally EVERYTHING on my checklist and none of the cheaper consoles do. Just because it isn't right for you doesn't mean it isn't right for other people. I get where you're coming from, but I think you're painting the 8424 in a pretty dim light while not talking about virtually any of the features this console actually has. I'll be purchasing mine next year.
On the flip side, most people probably don't need all the features the 8424 has. I think it's important that people purchase what best fits their needs. Your video doesn't really have any constructive or useful information for anyone interested in actually comparing these consoles.
I’m afraid that the follow up makes you look even worse.
Wow..... You really have no idea what you're talking about dude. You should probably read up on the actual specs of the console before you spread all this diss information.
Ha! Easy to see that you are not a working, professional engineer. All the consoles you’ve mentioned have specific downfalls compared to what the 8424 offers and what it’s meant for. I didn’t hear you mention the circuitry on pre/EQ/channel/buss/aux/summing once. No real information… just preamp and EQ comparison. Not to knock the consoles you compared to, they’re just not comprable. The closest competitor with preamps and EQ is the SSL Origin at 60k with no automation. If you want Neve preamps and EQ, the closest you can get is a Neve BCM 24 at over $100k. So if your going to produce content regarding professional equipment please do some research on what specs professionals are paying attention to, or maybe just make music. FYI I, do not own an 8424 and I’m not in the market for a new console. But I definitely appreciate that Neve recognized the need for this. “nobody asks a carpenter what tools they used, and nobody ever asks an audio engineer what gear they used. The music is all that matters” -me
opinion on 33609n please..or should i get a 2500+ (studio overdub mixing/tracking/live mixing)
@@trillworldprod.2515 2500+ more versatile
Interesting ... the 8424 just won the Tech Award at NAMM 2022 for "Large Format Console Technology"
Tradeshow awards are a joke. The manufacturer ends up paying to be part of that, and for the most part competes with no one.
@@SoundArtRecording Which product do you suggest should have won in that category instead?
@@JJRockford not the neve, mind you i own two ams neve , VR and digital format Neve. But this to me is a waste of money for 2 preamps and no daw control. SSL should of won this one. Sorry neve.
@@SoundArtRecording DAW control is an option, just as additional preamps. Just add it when you order. I suppose that is a much better way around then ”forcing” people to pay for preamps on every channel. You know, a lot of tracking nowadays can be (and are) done with only two preamps.
It’s not just a summing mixer with faders it’s an entire console minus the pres and eq’s, full masters section and tons of routing. Aux sends and returns. It’s made for mixing not recording. The consoles you showed for comparison were 8 & 16 channels that you would have to put even more money into with 500 series modules. Those trident boards are made like shit. I like your channel and been watching your videos for a while. I totally get that this board is not your thing but for someone else it might be the perfect piece for their set up. Imagine owning a 24 track tape machine that you need to monitor, you need faders and a master section. This is a cool board for monitoring and mixing. I hope it sounds like a Neve although I doubt it does because a real 80 series Neve is class A discrete and has transformers on every input and output not just the ACN outputs like this one. Either way I understand your point of view I just disagree with you on this particular board and I want to like it. I know how important monitoring off of a great Mixbuss is, and it can make all the difference in the world. And I think that’s what they’re trying to provide here. The back bone that all your gear routes through, the main piece you monitor & mix on. Lots of people already have a lot of preamps and a DAW. They can buy this and now have a Mixer with an inspiring sound.
A lot of what’s missing in today’s mixes is the sound of a console with a great MixBuss.
I hope that this is that piece but I don’t know cause I never heard it.
Thanks for the video and I look forward to your future videos...
Steve
Good points, even though I certainly think it is very good for recording as well. Two mic pres would handle a major part of all tracking needs in a modern production. But if you need more, just connect as many preamp as you need and start recording.
@@JJRockford
That’s very true
I came across this video two years late because I am going to be in a studio where I get to use this console. It was installed along with a rack containing extra mic pres and insert effects, as a physical front-end (recording and mixing) to ProTools. This installation was a specific choice by people who actually understand its strengths, weaknesses, and usefulness. I for one am excited to be working with an inline console of this design.
The 8424 is the cheapest possible Neve, with excellent routing and monitoring, for people who don't need (or already have) the outboard gear they require. For other people, there are other Neve consoles and other brands. The 8424 is in its own niche, and not one many people will occupy. That doesn't mean it's trash or a waste of money. People are so full of their own ego, they can't understand that other people, quite unlike them, actually exist. The lack of awareness and maturity on display here is sad.
You make some good points, but I think you missed the main one. It’s not that it’s a bad product. I think what he’s getting at is there is no real bang for the buck! The buck being the most important aspect, because I don’t think anyone here likes to throw money around. And that’s the most important point. Bedroom producers and home studios didn’t come about because large format studios suck. It’s because they’re too expensive and technology is closing that gap. Now with all that said you would think that the ethos of a lot of these companies would be to serve this growing group without sacrificing quality. Especially considering a lot of top professionals are in that group also.
I would have to agree, $25k for two mic pres summing and routing is insane, and can’t be justified to me. Not in this day and age. Especially when the end listener don’t care if the transformer were built buy Neve or Megatron. 🤷🏾♂️. But if the buyer can justify the purchase go for it.
@@ereddick4757 I'm happy to report that Neve released a 88M audio interface at less than $1,300 street price.
It includes two combination line/instrument/ mic preamps, ADAT in and out, balance inserts and sends plus a headphone amplifier.
Now that's a product I can get behind!
@@RealHomeRecording yeah I’m familiar with it. Watched a couple demo/review vids, and it sounds amazing. Still lacking some features of other modern interfaces but you get that Neve quality. I can get behind that too!
@@ereddick4757 I read this comment about that the 8424 is expensive, but still no one have answered the question ”compared to what?”.
The consoles that it is compared to in this video have very different features, and those who doesnt understand those differences should not judge if it is expensive or not, or if it is a good product for some people.
If you want mic inputs, grab an OPX. The 8424 controls it directly. Even with 2 banks of OPX this is $10k cheaper than the Neve 5088 which is its main competition.
You just don't get it, it is beyond your little brain, all the so called alternatives you mention do not come close to the number of mixdown inputs, and it has a DAW controller and recall functionality, it is the most flexible mixer on the market with the most functionality on a small footprint and like said in another comment with 2 8 channel opx pre amps you have 18 mic inputs, and it is still $10k cheaper than the Neve 5088 which is its main competition.
It's far more that 10k cheaper than the 5088 you must be comparing it to the price of an unloaded 5088! The 8424 either way is freaking awesome I've got mine on the way with automation and the 1073 opx included for about half the price of a loaded 5088! I couldn't be more thrilled.
absolutely right
Hmmm, I’m wondering why this comment isn’t liked by the channel like most other comments which agree with him…
i agree you can get a full console from Trident or Audient for less money than the 8424. The thing is, I don't want a console with all those mic pre's. I don't track drums as I work with Superior Drummer 3 in a high end project studio. Having 24 channels/faders to send signal through, 2 mic pre's and EQ's, a nice DAW control, and control center is what I am looking for. In addition, just adding 8 channels of AMS Neve 1073OPX8 is all I need. I love the way it looks and sounds when you sum through it. I could also get a API The Box but it is basically 8 channel strips and a summing box. This unit has been updated with scribble strips, DAW control, and your favorite presets can be added, along with 24 faders, so the 8424 meets my needs the most, plus it looks great and is made with quality.
I'm happy to hear they updated the design!
i find it weird that product manufactures never admit that they make junk products until they get sued.
Do you know any comparable products to 8424?
Ummm, who sued them?
You have completely missed the point. This is designed for automated mixing outside the box. None of those other consoles will do that. If you are happy living in the digital world, why would you even care about a console?
Compare an audient 4816 (i bought a 4816 and sold it after a week) to a Neve.... a YT channel just for homercorders... Pro audio is different.
It's not a studio console as you would usually thing of it, but if you're working in the box and want the Neve sound this is a decent console. I can get a Toft audio 32 channel for way less, but if I have preamps I use, and it has plenty of transformers by the way. If you ever get the chance to lay your hands on this, you will find it's way more than a summing box. watch the link below, all of it. It may be a kissy kissy review but it has tons of info on what this more than a summing mixer can do. Then do our review.And yes, you can get a Neve Genesys but that's a hell of a lot more than this, with the 1073 with transformers you're talking over 4 times the cost. Not every home studio has that much to blow on a console and that's who this is for. If you prefer SSL. try the Origin, 66k with 32 pre's but I prefer the Neve sound myself. Good gear is rarely cheap, there is always that point of diminishing returns for a little more, Neve delivers that in spades and this is cheap, their center piece is over 10K for much much less, so I would recommend you get something that cost less, but I want the sound I know and love, Not for a commercial studio but for my home setup this is great. There is a multi part series on this console too you may want to watch.
There's a real comment. Sounds like you actually did a little research an tried to understand what this thing is about, rather than crying about the toy you can't afford, and blaming the toy.
Yes, anyone seriously looking at this Console, that has actually run a Recording or Mix Session, and has some idea of what Neve Consoles sound like and are capable of, has to be impressed by How much Console they squeezed into $25,000.
But if you don't know, you don't know.
Now, you advised that they Watch other videos that might explain all the stuff they don't understand, but that would make sense.
I know all the pros get it, and I suspect that once these things start shipping, unless they're something wrong with them, they're gonna pop up everywhere.
AMS has been working on this for years, and in terms of routing flexibility and features, they really have mapped it out for a ton of use cases.
I'm glad you get it, and I suspect in time so will others, whether they can afford $25K or not.
A couple of things though:
The Centerpiece is RND (Rupert Neve Designs) not AMS Neve. They are totally separate companies, long story.
The SSL Origin (also an amazing desk, all analog, 32 (New Design) Preamps, 32 Black Knob EQs, G-Buss Comp, nearly identical setup to my Ghost) doesn't have Recall, or Automation. And it's $49K (not $66K) double the 8424, and IT was amazing that they squeezed a whole SSL into under Fifty Grand.
i could've not said it better
To be honest, if I wanted a Neve sound, I would have wanted the actual Neve sound, and not the AMS Neve sound. AMS Neve is on par with all the other Neve clones out there, but priced a hell of a lot more because of the name alone. I used to work every day on two Neve large format consoles that we had, the 72 ch VX and a 36 ch VR. None of them sounded like actual Neve's. Because they weren't Neve's other than in name. I preferred our 48 ch SSL 4040g instead, and we sold the Neve's (kept a sidecar of both consoles for nostalgia). The point is: This is not going to give you a Neve sound. If none of their flagship large format consoles could, then this little toy (in comparison) will not either. You are better off going in a different direction than this money sink in my opinion. No matter what you think of this summing box and what it can do, IT IS A RIP OFF, and that is a fact. It might be absolutely fantastic, but you'll get MUCH more from anywhere else for the same money, which means it is still a rip off that they can legitimise because of the name of their company which happens to bear the same name as someone who designed great consoles and has nothing to do with their current products. I love Neve, but this isn't it. It is a dark spot on AMS's record, no doubt. If it all turns out to be an elaborate hoax by AMS to show how much they can rip people off because of their name, then I would be surprised by their honesty, but not by the hoax itself.
SSL for me please
@@michaelcaplin8969 There is no such thing as ”a Neve sound”., because there are many flavours. Consoles are made with different goals and different purposes. What should matter is if it does the job you want to do.
Anyway, all Neve products have a Neve sound, because it is a Neve product. But it might be different to other Neve products. Logical ;)
I don’t think you know what you’re talking about
I know a bad deal when I see one.
@@RealHomeRecording Unskilled and unaware of it. There are so many things you say in this video this video that, even if they obviously make sense to you, just sound a little bit ”childish” to anyone who understand what is what here.
@@JJRockford well if it makes you feel any better I think that the Neve 1073opx and 88M are good products.
I will stick to what I originally said and that is this mixer is way overpriced for its capabilities. I do not stand alone in this opinion.
@@RealHomeRecording Overpriced compare to what? If you should call something overpriced you need to compare it with something which give you the same features. None or the products you mentioned in the videos do that.
@@JJRockford I already did. API the Box primarily.
Your comparing Neve to lower end consoles. They are not in the same league. AMS Neve offers automation for this console. They also have shelf EQ on the 4 groups and master. There are transformers on on the output bus and monitoring as well. There are two 500 slots so you can add two Neve EQ's after the 1073's. If you want more mic pres, you can hook up the Neve 1073 OPX which gives you 8 Neve mic pre's that you can connect and control right on the console. 24 faders plus group faders, a great monitoring section, talkback, etc. There is also two line ins in the front of the console as well.
All you have shown is that you are a sucker for marketing.
Within the context of a mix, which is the purpose of making music, running audio through any one desk has no identifiable impact. You are effectively paying for faders, a monitoring system, 10 bands of eq, a 2 unit 500 series chassis, and the Neve name.
You can add the 1073 OPX to any setup so that isn’t an actual distinguishing feature of this console.
@@jloiben12 But that is exactly what I want. 24 faders with automation, I will be adding the 8 Neve mic pre's, it has a great monitor section group busses and it will be inspiring to use every single day.
@@revelationsoundstudio If what I said is what you wanted, why did you (or are going to) go spend at least $10k more then what I said was comparable?
@@jloiben12 Maybe because you haven't suggested any comparable equipment?
Remember, counting technical features on paper is one thing, the use in daily work is another. One of the most well-known examples of this is the iPhone. The first model (and a lot of the following) was, when comparing tech features to it's competitors, far from a winner. But the package of the included features together was.
@@JJRockford Except I have. You just aren’t capable of understanding (1) the difference between good v bad and the number of sales a product has and (2) the concept of materiality.
What I have put forward is 48 automatable faders, 72 channels of the Neve sound, and no material difference in workflow. You can pretend that, an at least $10k premium to what I have put forward is worth immaterial differences but it isn’t. If this console was $10k less, it would be a different conversation. Neve just mispriced the product
What you say is valid but Neve users are at the opposite end of the spectrum to users who base purchasing decisions purely on bang for buck. In marketing we would consider the Neve brand a Lovemark...in that the majority of Neve buyers consciously prioritise how it feels to use it above and beyond the practical application (within reason of course). Creators are all about energy and vibe...so you can easily imagine an engineer behind a Neve desk just pouring the energy of "fu*ck yes!" into every mix...just because they own a Neve. Also the gravitas of a studio providing facilities consisting of a Neve desk is irrefutable...but that gravity has much less to do with the features of the desk...than it has to do with a musician imagining their album being mixed on a Neve...it's aspirational and therefore not based on a process of weighing the pros and cons of the feature set...it's based on emotion not intellect. I personally imagine an engineer using a Neve Desk making mix decisions much more based on how it sounds/feels as opposed to what the metres are saying...and of course this assumption could be (and is probably) wrong...nonetheless it's an assumption I made based on how the brand feels to me...and why I see this product as having massive potential to mix engineers more on the creative (feeling) side than the intellectual (thinking) side.
Makes sense to me.
Nike sells a lot of shoes that aren't the greatest, for example. So I agree with you 100% here.
@@RealHomeRecording Oh dear god...
But if you want the Neve sound you can get 12 full channels from RND for the same cost as this. I think this product is Neve trading on its name instead of creating an actual value added product
This is a Ferrari with no engine. It is a poor product because it does not aid in your workflow or contribute much to your sound. If you are in the box running out to a console you still want to tweak EQ. A studio manager that doesn't manage his money wisely should not be in charge of his money. If you are so tight with production costs, get some real engineers and use integrated circuits in your modern eq designs. This is a line mixer. Still need excessive cable management to patch into here just to eq, and if I am going to have outboard eq might as well buy an SSL 4000G used with all the power boxes. Neve reputation "Lovemark" is based solely on the reputation of the 1073 preamp. The 1073OPX is a good product that will give you 8 of those to record a band with. What do I need a line mixer with no eq for? It needs to be a control surface so at least I can say "hey, I control the track here, I have automation, I can use this to patch over to my outboard". While I am setting levels and panning on this I am going to do what? Reach for a send knob? What is this, a Speck Lilo? A bad product is a bad product. Neve Genesys is better bargain ant over twice the cost, and if you cough up 25 Grand for a board you are already on that level. An SSL board with a Neve sidecar would bring more clients than this soulless neve. It's like a Pinata with no candy inside.
@@MisterManiac777 That was a lot of analogies Mr. Maniac. Each one stupider than the one preceding it. It is becoming more and more clear Who has and Who has not ever even touched real studio equipment, or been involved with an actual session, Recording or Mixing.
The funny thing is, just How wrong you all are on so many levels. And like all geniuses that can't admit that they have no idea what they're talking about, you go full drunk guy at the bar, and get louder and louder, exposing to everyone who you really are.
This UA-cam channel gives me nostalgia for the good old days of Gearsluts. When a bunch of Actual engineers first came into contact with the know everything yet done nothings.
I'd advise you to watch the Vintage King video on the 8424. Try to watch it, without searching for Ammunition to use in your lost cause. You might actually learn something.
Good luck!
We live in the golden age of recording where there are so many options to meet everyone's needs. The 8424 meets a lot of peoples needs and I'm super excited that we have the ability to build studios tailored to **anyone's** workflow!! Neve has never been a budget brand so to have access to their 48 channel sum/routing behemoth at 25k, isn't too crazy - and with bags of insert points and a darn good monitor section, this board will find many a great home for peoples who have the outboard to hang off it. It's a lovely creative console and that's the important bit - but as you point out, if the budget doesn't allow for this board, there are always options. Ps, thanks for using the VK website for examples here :)
Very good points. Perhaps it will be a hot seller? Either way, Neve and companies like yours will know.
It has a daw control option now
WRONG! THERE ARE 6 MARINAIR TRANSFORMERS ON THE CONSOLE. IT NOT ONLY HAS DAW CONTROL ABILITY, BUT IT HAS CUE MIX RECALL AS WELL. SO EVERY EQ, COMPRESSOR, ETC, CAN BE DIGITALLY RECALLED ON THE ACTUAL BOARD. NIT TO BE RUDE, BUT YOU SIMPLY DIDN'T DO YOUR RESEARCH ON THIS CONSOLE, THE SAME TRANSFORMERS ON THE BEST CONSOLE IN MUSIC, THE "NEVE 88RS" ARE USED ON THIS CONSOLE. YOU REALLY SHOULD GO LOOK AT THE NEW WEBINAR VIDEO THEY MADE TO EDUCATE YOURSELF ON THE BOARD.
the marinara (marinair) typo made me think of chicken marinara yummm
Yes, these negative replies are from simpletons that refrained from doing their homework. It gives me chills to think of this thing residing in my project studio. With the Two onboard 1073s mic pre’s, plus the 8 that are on my 1073OPX, two more with my Avalon 737s, 4 more with U/A 4-710d and lastly one more with Millenia STT-1 gives me 17 industry leading pre’s and channel strips to record any band striate to the daw. Putting fifteen additional 1073s on board would increase the price 12-15k . I like the different flavors that my outboard units afford me and the idea of needing more mic pre’s, on this desk would render, either my outboard or onboard equipment redundant. (Nathan Bankhead understands)
I’m sure I will own one before the end of 2021.
If you're looking for a reasonable and researched argument against this console... this is not the video for you.
Agreed.
The neve has integrated recall and the faders will be automated soon with a package, the trident doesnt have that. Recall is not a cheap function to add.....and it has 24 channels
I’m a fan of the Nevé sound and own a couple of their products but Neve’s problem has always been that they are drunk with hubris, they actually expect us to empty 24k out our wallets for this “console” that has No freaking DAW control , is mind boggling stingy with EQs and mic pres ...They want us to show them love, without them being required to love us back...(Naw...I’ll pass). I can get a lot more bang for my 24K elsewhere.
Hit the nail in the head. Yup, its HUBRIS
Why do you think they are still around after all this years? Those who are pros enough to pay for products like this will understand the value of it.
I can see how this can be just fine as both a front end and a back end for lots of people. We have a lot of analogue synthesizers in our studio (some of them polychained) and just need a mixer that can combine outputs and do some routing on the front end (say take two polychained synths which typically produce 4 outputs into one stereo path). When you have in excess of a dozen hardware synths it makes sense to connect them all up to a mixer like this (after you normalize to line level of course if need be) and send them all to one mono (for mono synths) and one stereo output. Saves a ton of I/O which is expensive. We actually use a Harrison 950mx in exactly this way. 16 mono channels and 8 stereo channels all sum to just one mono and one stereo bus output. You need only 3 inputs to the recorder (DAW) this way. It's a dual input console so nothing stopping you for also feeding the DAW returns through the console for summing but we use it mostly as front end. The bus outputs have transformers whereas direct outs don't so makes even more sense if you want a bit of analogue transformer magic on the input into the computer.
The other niceties are the monitoring section. That's always a nice option to have. To not need a computer at all to monitor, have analogue signal path so you can actually hear your analogue synths before conversion etc etc. I think this is often overlooked. One of the most useful things on our Harrison is the centre section that does all the monitoring.
It's perhaps unfair to compare because the Harrison has full channel strips with EQ and sweepable HP/LP filters (full frequency range) but the Harrison was designed with a similar use case in mind as this Neve. I think Neve should have included some fully featured channels, maybe 4 or so would do it or at least HP/LP filters across each of the channels since this is another most used and always overlooked but great feature to have. But the Harrison was still pushing like 50 grand whereas this is kind of mid to low 20s. If I was buying I'd ask them if they could include HP/LP filters on each channel if including the EQ would mean exorbitant price increases. And that's probably the only thing I'd change thinking about it now. Keep the price in the low 20s but add HP/LP filters (Sweepable across the full range of frequencies) and call it a day.
If you need an analogue tracking console in a traditional sense then this is probably a bad solution for that. You'll have to pony up for the Genesys or API or something similar. But if you're like us and you do electronic music this actually is a pretty good solution. As I say the only thing I'd add is the fully sweepable HP/LP filters on each channel that you can automate.
To make this better suited as a tracking console, just add one or two Neve 1073opx, which integrates nicely with the 8424.
Forgot the XL Desk for 16k that has 8 pres, a SSL mic bus comp, and 16 500 series slots for EQ. The only thing the Neve has is automated faders, but you can buy 2 SSL UF8s for under 3$k and those have transport controls for Pro Tools, etc.
You are missing everything about monitoring, recall, connecticity, real estate and so on…
And, you will need 3 UF8s ;)
It. Has. Recall!
“iT DoSEnT SaY Neve oN iT”
Coming from a guy with a 5060, MBP, 2x shelford channels lmao. I see why some people want it, it just isn’t for me.
If SSL came out with a newer XL Desk with two UF8s in it and charge 2,200 more than the original that would slay. Add metering for the channels and BOOM.
Isn't this the new origin?
@@vigneshkarthikeyan9702 The eqs are SSL not 500 series to switch out like XL Desk or an API console.
Imagine getting hold of the actual build cost of this console. Just imagine the talk if a screenshot was to appear.this could be done with enough likes
I own one and would LOVE to see this.
well my comment brought out the experience challenged for sure. alot of us that have careers in this business are very confused by neve at this point. i went with ssl, if i want that neve flavor i can use my 1073's. but i will never get the ssl clarity from a neve. personal choice that enables me to have both tones should i wish.
If you have such experience, it is certainly a true mystery if you dont understand the potentional different workflow options the 8424 can give you compared to e.g Api The Box which the video poster showed.
Which SSL console can you buy for the same price as the 8424 and get the same abilities?
I don't understand your take here. This isn't primarily an analog recording console. It's 1) a 24 channel DAW controller 2) a summing mixer and 3) a device to enable you to record with your outboard gear without crawling around repatching after every take.
The only product I'm aware of it competes with is the SSL Matrix2, and the SSL doesn't have any mic pres at all, or even two 500 series slots. (I'm trying to learn about those two products and it seems like the SSL is better as a digital hub for all your outboard gear, but is totally lacking as a recording console in terms of analog "warmth" etc.)
Of course if I wanted a simple analog recording console API's The Box beats this with a stick. But best I can tell The Box doesn't have HUI DAW control, doesn't have motorized faders, etc. Just a completely different product category. When you compare the 8424 to 1970's style analog consoles it's like you're comparing a helicopter to a bulldozer. ("This helicopter doesn't have a shovel on it AT ALL! How much dirt do you think you can move with those flimsy landing rails???")
Here years later and the more time that goes by, the more it makes sense
A lot of us were really disappointed with this release at the time. But AMS.Neve made up for it, to an extent, with their 88M interface.
Obviously not the same kind of product by a long shot but, if you.are only going to have two mic channels then you should at least price it somewhat decently. That's what Neve did with the 88M.
The rest of a console's features are secondary to its Mic preamps and they just did not understand this at the time.
@@RealHomeRecording have you seen the HUM audio N-trophy? Massive options but lack of channels for the space it takes up. 8424 would get me going in the right direction with the small footprint, but I feel the “answer” the the 8424 with a future release of some kind from some brand will get more value.
@@dougleydorite agreed. (I'm just now seeing your reply, seven months later).
@@RealHomeRecording because I’ll end up returning each channel into the DAW as opposed to analog summing, I’m collecting digital recall gear. Mostly Wes audio. Hopefully there will be a way of controlling it all with a SSL type of controller in the future
Quit being poor.
Your first post genuinely made me laugh out loud!
Buy instead 2x AMS Neve 1073 OPX (each 3.900,- Euros), 1x AMS Neve 8816 Summing mixer (3.100,- Euros) and 1x AMS Neve 8804 Faderpack (1.370,- Euros) = 12.270,- Euros in total.
Or what I would buy 2x AMS Neve 1073OPX (each 3.900,- Euros), 1x SSL Sigma (4.500,- Euros) with FADERAUTOMATION, 2X Avid S1 (each 1.300,-) and 1x Avid Protools Dock (1.100,- Euros) = 16.000,- Euros in total.
You will save 8.000,- to 12.000,- Euros and you will have a much better setup.
Thanks for posting this! I am going to pin it.
Even though it might be a good setup for some people, it’s nowhere near the features of the 8424 when it comes to e.g channel count, routing, monitoring and so on.
@@JJRockford You will have 16 1073 Neve preamps, 32 channel of SSL summing with analog faderautomation, two busses Mix A and Mix B (incl. a total professional master and monitorsection) and a perfect DAW control section with the Avid controllers. The Neve console does not even come close to this.
FrancisJoa Your setup still only have 32 channel at mixdown compared to 48 (or even 52 since you can use the reverb returns on the 8424). Not the same amount of auxes or inserts. No processing on the group nor master buss(es). And so on.
Not saying its better or worse, just so much difference that its meaningless to compare ”non biased”. What you choose will depend on your needs.
@@JJRockford Of course you have 32 inserts. You come out of the interface, go through your hardware (Eq, comps etc.) and then to the 32 Sigma inputs. Bang there you have your inserts. You also have inserts on the Mix A and Mix B of the SSl Sigma plus a HP send. Seems you don´t know the unit.
First off, I agree that it's pretty expensive and I wouldn't buy one, BUT the true market for this are twofold
1) people with spare cash
2) pro studios who want a little bump in their business and cred to be able to say they have a Neve desk in their studio. It's a legit reason as far as I'm concerned. Lots of people would see "Neve studio" and understand it to mean that it's a great place to work. I am well aware that Neve does not a studio make, but many people mightn't look much further than that. Especially commercial clients
Very good points, Dave. I agree. Thanks for posting.
@@RealHomeRecording thanks for the video!
3. Professionals who understand the advantages of this console and think it will fit and improve their work process.
Yes, everything is a joke IF you can't afford it. Ferarri, Porsche, and any luxury cars and goods are jokes only IF you can't afford it. You can't say a $30k Console is a rip-off when all you can afford is $500. It is very funny. Also, funnier when people say Ferrari is a rip-off when they can only afford a 20 year old Nissan. LOL
Thanks for unintentionally proving my point!
NO...Wrong because this is an issue of functionality....that is a Joke...even if it was only $2000 it would be useless...I have a SoundCraft LX7II and it is alot more useful than that ...for $1800 your Simply getting more for your money than spending 24,000 on the Neve Name...all of their products are way over priced......Period...music isnt about who can afford something its about what you "Can do with it" these are tools....a Tool is only as good as its "Usefullness"
@@johnisrael5183If you think you that Soundcraft console have the same capabilities as the 8424, you really need to study more. Let just start with the monitoring and recall options.
I thought so also, but after really looking at the features and what it can do, I have to disagree. It's freaking awesome.
Totally agree, this must be the best bridge between hardware and software to this date, keeping all the advantages of both. Lets hope someone makes a similar product aimed for home/project studios.
Audient/Focusrite once made the 2802, but it have some drawbacks, especially the form factor. But lack of recall and the layout of some daw controls also holds it back.
You are completely missing the point. This will sound much better than those other options. SSL and Neve both are at a higher league than trident and Audient and even the poor API designs. I will agree that no DAW control or automation is dumb as it’s main competitor (SSL Matrix) does most of these things better while having DAW control.
Agree, and I would love a Genesys but at over 4 times the cost it's a bit much for my apartment! If I want cheap, I'd go Toft ATB 80, great but no automation. And only about 14K CAD for 32 channels but it's still not a Neve! Pretty close to a Trident though.
For someone whose account name is “Audio Geek,” you make a pretty lazy argument. To begin with, “sound better” isn’t a real measure. The question is does this product provide the sound you want. The Neve product doesn’t really give you the ability to manipulate the sound. You basically get an audio interface and 2 preamps for $24k. This new Neve product is basically trading on the Neve name instead of providing actual value. As the video said, if one wants a small format console, there are many other options that actually provide one with the features one needs to actually impact the sound. If you want the Neve sound, you can get a bunch of outboard gear for a fraction of this price. For $23k you can get 12 RND 517 Pre/Comp modules, 12 RND 551 EQs, and 3 RND 10 unit chassises. That is 12 Neve channel strips for the price of one glorified audio interface. That is why the new Neve “console” is not good
Prove it will sound better.
@@jloiben12 for starters this isn't an audio interface. You are missing the point of the product. This is a studio integrator for high end production studios. That is why it exists. People that buy something like this already have 16 channels of high quality preamps in their frontend rack. Neve knows this and have provided essentially the same circuitry you would find in a Genesys or 88RS for summing in a much smaller footprint and price point. The whole idea is to have every piece of outboard easily accessible and available at the highest possible quality. Objectively a much higher percentage of hit songs have been mixed on either a Neve or SSL console. This isn't a product for anyone. It is sort of like buying a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. Lets say mixing in the box is a Tesla, just as fast but a completely different experience. All those other brands are like supped up Supras or Civics, just as fast but with much less finesse.
Furthermore your argument isn't an apples to apples comparison. What you get with the Neve is a 52 channel summing mixer using the same transformers used on their large format consoles, comprehensive monitoring control (with dual Cues and big console monitoring capabilities), a 24 channel electronic patchbay, and a whole lot of ease of use.
That said, compared to its main competitor, the SSL Matrix it is an inferior product. No DAW control is a big no no for a product like that. The recall feature is also very poorly designed. The Matrix does both these things better. Furthermore the Matrix also allows for up to 40 channel summing in dual input mode. Sure that is 12 fewer channels but there are more FX sends and a much better feature set which includes analog automation.
TLDR: this is a product for high end facilities not power users. If you want to be among the very best in the world you buy this, an SSL Matrix or maybe an API The Box for your production room, not a second tier Audient, Trident or anything else.
Lucas Pereira
You don’t seem to understand what I am saying. I am not saying it is literally an audio interface. I am saying that the features of this product is basically that of an audio interface. What you just said about getting the Genesys/88RS circuitry proves my point. You do understand how you can get all of the following points you brought up for a fraction of the price of this new console: comprehensive monitoring control, a patchbay, easy to use, right? Just because something has a fancy name on it doesn’t make it value added.
What you are paying for is the Neve circuitry and transformers. However, as you said, this is for high end production studios. That means what matters is how it sounds in a mix. I will gladly provide this test for you as I am 100% confident you would not be able to distinguish between what goes through this product, an ssl desk, the RND 500 series products I mentioned, and Neve plugins across a variety of individual tracks, buses, and entire mixes. You can lie that you can tell the difference in a mix but once you post it on UA-cam that lie will be out there forever. What you are paying for is something that people can not distinguish. You can get console capability for a fraction of the price. There are so many products out there that can provide you with faders, monitoring control, and routing that - taken together - cost a fraction of this console.
Which means you are paying for the name instead of the actual features.
The problem with this product is the price. If this was half the price then yeah, it would be a good product. But for this price you can do so much better.
In addition to that, saying “if you want to be the best in the world” therefore you should buy “x” indicates that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Based on that standard, Andrew Scheps must be pretty bad at mixing. Leslie Bratheaite must not be able to make good sounding mixes since Happy only had 14 million sales plus equivalent streams in 2014. Mark Needham must be overrated by your standards.
Saying you should buy any one individual piece of equipment or brand in order to be able to make good music is just a factually incorrect position.
You also agreed with me that this new Neve is an inferior product which I just want to point out
Wow so much hate here. I just had an hour demo on the 8424. I personally say it's a great tool for folks who need 100% recall and a way to mix/track thru loads of outboard gear. I currently own an API 1608 and I love it. But I will tell you, there is nothing on the market that does what the 8424 does, for less than 80k.
This UA-cam channel owner seems very resistant to any real hands on experience. A lot of people are also claiming that it is overpriced, but without being able to suggest a cheaper product with the same feature set.
@@JJRockford the guy clearly is inexperienced and amateur, with his own interpretation on how "things" are done and what's important (Virtually). Maybe tomorrow he will compare a Ferrari with Colin McRae game, and find that the simulation handles better, is cheaper, and safer, so why spend all that money for another "car". So funny nonetheless
@@manostsantirakis897 I am most probably to be considered as an amateur as well, but that shouldnt stop anyone from reading and try to understand things outside their own world :) Thats how you grow. But I suppose videos like this are mostly to be considered as click baits. Which kind of works, I was a little bit hooked... :)
@@JJRockford i just did thrice in comments above. THE SSL NEUCLUS 2. its around4 grand and i can buy and external summer and also an entire 500 series rack for under 10 grand and still have motorized faders with DAW CONTROLL
@@BrijeshSarin It still wouldnt be near the feature set of the 8424
Thank you for making this video I’ve suggested (both videos) to other artist, audio professionals and engineers who were clueless about the lack of value for this over priced piece of gear.
Thanks for sharing!
I strongly doubt that people who are the real target group for products like the 8424 would care at all about videos like this on UA-cam. They will understand that whoever posted this doesnt have a clue about what s/he is talking about.
@@JJRockford There are a lot of products of shitty value that stayed in the market place and only after years of trying to get a foothold ) we’re changed or discontinued all together.
There are plenty of youtube videos of “high end “pro customers” buying such products expressing buyers remorse🤨 and would have made a different decision if they had the information.
@@TheRTM Could be, but most probably not relevant in this case. If you watched the video and understand the feature of the different consoles that are compared, you will also understand that whoever did the video understand the use of the products properly.
@@JJRockford Dude are you trying to convince me or yourself?.. (you’re going into the weeds with this) If you feel that it’s worth the money go ahead and give them your money. why is it important to you that I and the others (who agree with me) not think those of you who would fork over their cash for this thing are idiots?
Neve is the Gucci of the audio industry.
Their stuff is WAY over priced, and only a snob notices or even cares about the difference in quality from something half the price.
I've made some great sounding stuff on my $600 Mackie. No way I'm paying 24K for a console. Let alone the millions some studios pay.
More money doesn't equal better sound. Plain and simple.
It's just a novelty
Haha, that's a great way of putting it!
They're using old technology and still selling it at premium prices. Make it make sense!
Just because you can do acceptable recordings on a Mackie doesnt mean that everything might be easier and sound better if you use other equipment.
You have a point, Neve has that brand hype, which allows them to put the price tag high. But it also has the looks, very important wow -phenomenon, which brings customers in. It has the build quality too. Also 8424 has optional daw ctrl now
A ”hype”? They have been in the top of a very competetive business since at least the 70s :)
@@JJRockford Yes, so you feel the word hype is not correct? It has been hype, and continues to be even more so.
@@petrikokko1167 It could also be that people who are both more skilled and succesful than you and I can see values with the equipment which you dont understand.
@@JJRockford Yes kid. Great convo
@@petrikokko1167 Google the Dunning-Kruger effect, consider the what that means in this context and then feel free to come back if you think you have something meaningful to contribute with.
I hate to bash especially a company like Neve but this thing is a toy. I guess it can be considered one of the cheapest Neve consoles you can purchase. It’s the cubic zirconia of Neve Consoles. They should have given this console the ability to be upgraded so you could add things as you need or can afford them. That may make the upgrade process pricey in the end but at least this would make more sense and would probably sell a lot more than I can see. I guess it could have some “cool” potential in a “man cave “ scenario. Place it next to a 80” OLED tv and kegerator??
1 have 2 8816s and 2 faders 8804 = 32 mono summing. So I'm wondering sonically if there's much difference...
@@chris-rb7bm Now THAT is an actual response to all of this. From an actual engineer with skin in the game, rather than a heckler sitting in the nose bleeds.
A) it wasn't cheap to buy your setup, about $10K, but that was the cheapest way to get that sound.
B) this journey of Analog Studios, then ProTools on the side, then more ProTools and other DAWs, then In The Box, then buying select Analog Pieces maybe racking console channel strips, then Console makers selling pieces of the desk in 19" or 500-series form, and now to Hybrid that includes a miniature Desk (SFC) and high channel count interfaces. (24-channel front end, for tracking sessions without limits and proper inline for monitoring. 48-channels, well 52, at mixdown with voltage summing and Marinair trannies)
C) this thing is supposed to not only sound like, but be, an 80-series Neve. For $25,000. (And the integration with their OPXs is sweet) If true, and my demo keeps getting pushed because AMS is having trouble getting it to LA with Covid, this should be a game changer for anyone who knows what Neve is.
D) I'll add though: For me, they've also set it up where I can basically bypass the Neve Sound when not appropriate, and get an incredibly Clean Analog central nervous system, and add whatever Color you desire ITB or in your rack. I use pretty much All of the console emulation systems, but mostly my Softube Console 1 system, with hands-on SSL 4K, 9K, API, Neve, Summit, etc. I suspect that this Neve, with FULL ANALOG RECALL!!!, will integrate quite nicely with Console 1, and get you dangerously close to that dream system in your mind.
Or maybe the mouse clickers are right, and it's just a pos that costs too much.
The cubic zirconia of Neve consoles is the perfect description!
@@G_handle I'll say it again...a fool and his gold are soon parted. What will this console do that the one you already have or less expensive models can't do?
It is not a shrunk down 80 series Neve. Go look at the circuitry. The line inputs on the 8424 don't have transformers (Neve would list them in the marketing if they did) which is a big part if that analog Neve sound.
I am guessing they and maybe even the mic preamps as well use the same cheaper 1073OPX design. Read more in the Old Meets New part here: www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neve-1073opx
RealHomeRecording.com Yeah all these mini summing consoles(SSL and Neve) are huge fails for the lack of input/output transformers. Yeah I know you get two on the Neve. Big deal! I think the the SSL is better than this in the fact that you get the ability to add a decent amount of pre/line inputs and/eqs and the fact you get “the glue” buss compressor on your two track output. No automation possibility which makes it suck too but over all better than this thing. Too bad for Neve though because I personally would like a board like this but not with all it’s short comings. Oh well...and again, just my personal opinion.
They all have 16 faders and the Neve has 24. And it's a Neve which have more name than those other brands. It's Neve or SSL.
API is a top brand as well. It's one reason why there are a lot of plugin emulations of their hardware.
@@RealHomeRecording The API is still, as Gino wrote, a smaller console.
You make valide points but... The API is flimsy as hell, the looptrotter will run your bank account into the ground once you start buying 500 modules, the audient is nice but will really not appeal to clients as much, the trident is cool but typed for rock. The neve has a clientele in the film composer world, advertising studios, high end home studio etc...
You're not wrong! Seems like API or SSL it is then...
@@RealHomeRecordingWhich API or SSL console can you buy which have the same features as the 8424?
@@JJRockford You're better off just getting an SSL Matrix and a 500 series or SSL Xlogic rack next to it for EQ and/or compression. I've owned a few Matrix's and they're very well built and sound great. You can even get an SSL 4000 for 8424 money and slowly refurb it and have a world-class no-compromise console that'll last a lifetime.
@@mikej6565 Differences between the Matrix and the 8424; Total number of inputs, monitoring options, number of faders/channels, on board processing to name some. Both are great products, but not really comparable.
Of course there is a lot of used products, but if you are dependent on reliable equipment, a used SSL4000 for the same price as a new 8424 wouldnt be my first choice :) You also have to calculate the money you need for a machine room where you put the power supply, and air condition to handle that, and then the power consumption for using the console.
They added automation
It is indeed a very expensive joke❕
When you say expensive, which product with the same features are you comparing to?
@@JJRockford about the Solid State Logic XL-Desk. $18k and it has 4 pres and the legendary SSL Stereo Bus Compressor?
@@quantika72 It actually have 8 pres, and the four group channels are stereo. But its a smaller desk, the Neve have 24 ”normal” channel modules instead of 16, is recallable, one more aux, adds PFL solo mode (more than SIP and AFL which both desk have) and also triple inputs on the channels, as well as the daw control/motorized fader option.
Fantastic console - not cheap once you've added in the flying faders and yearly warranty subscription. The workflow is really fantastic and I personally think Neve has made a great job of the summing bus. It's the perfect console for a busy well healed hybrid studio .... if you can actually afford one as opposed to just talking about one 🙂 .... (Unfortunately I can't afford one)
Totally agree
Diego Oliveira Totally?
Thank you so much for your honest
I was going to make the jump
if you make expensive buying decisions (or not) on the basis of clickbait videos then you don't deserve to have any money to spend. this is a brilliant desk for a specific type of facility / producer who owns a lot of outboard and doesn't need loads of additional pre-amps they're not going to use. I've spent time with it and the automation / DAW control is terrific and the summing buss, mic pre and DI are first rate.
Consoles should have redundant pres and eqs, and dynamics as well. Not having these can create phase issues. Patching all different gear together goes against this principle in a major way.
For those who want a AMS Neve with pres, eqs and dynamics on every channel, there is the Genesys/Genesys Black.
Lets not forget that people hated on the original API The Box for lacking features for the price.
Neve comes in and bettered that times 3 real quick LOL.
Hahaha, yep. I remember the discussions pretty vividly on Gearslutz. It was originally priced at $19k and they dropped it pretty fast to $15 or 16k. When I toured API's building and saw The Box in person, it was neat to look at but only something I would buy if I had $16,000 to burn.
Here is the time capsule: www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/989251-api-box-any-thoughts.html . Only having four inputs/preamps and forcing the 550A down your throat was its biggest drawback. Plus I think the headphone output or direct box was on the back? Either way...
The Box 2.0? I would put that on a credit card. It has a good amount of functionality that I could actually earn some money with. Sound on Sound agrees: www.soundonsound.com/reviews/api-box-2
Gearslutz users mostly liked the upgrades for Box 2.0 as well: www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/1247385-api-releases-box-console-updated-feature-set.html
And I can almost guarantee you, 3 to 6 years from now if Neve puts out a version 2 of the 8424, Sound on Sound's reviewer will agree that the original design was just too limited. They won't dare say that now though, hehehe.
RealHomeRecording.com Well, things can always be developed. But since there are not other comparable products out right now, why compare it with a product which might exist in 3 years from now?
Agreed!! I think that API the Box is the way to go!
Agree completely. Calling something a ‘recording desk’ and including only TWO microphone preamps. Ridiculous.
A lot of tracking nowadays never use more than maximum two preamps at once. However, if you read about this console, it was a very conscious decision based on the assumption that a lot of the potential customers already own a lot of preamps. And, if they dont to, just add 1-3 1073opx.
Fun fact the price now it's 30k
Oh my!
Still around $25,000 at Sweetwater in the USA. I'm happy to see they released a reasonably priced audio interface (the 88M).
I lack of inserts, direct outs, enough channels for my synths and routing options.The Audient and the Neve 8424 are the only options from your list.
Man...thanks for this Video...Im saving up for API...and slapping two SSL EQs on it.....thanks bro
The Box 2 is my dream console.
I understand your point, I prefer the API the Box2 100 times before that mixer.
The API have a pretty different feature set, so I wouldnt say they are comparable.
Your completely ignoring the fact that this unit is meant to work along side the Neve 1073 OPX which would completely changes the way you review the product. I do how ever tend to agree that if this had flighting fader that had DAW control this would be come a lot more reasonable as at the end of the day it is just a $25K 24 channel summing box with faders.
You can order it with motorized faders/daw control.
Generally I don’t agree with you but on this video I totally agree, this is too expensive for a simple summing mixer with transformer only on the mixbus, no EQs and only 2 preamps.
If you buy a summing mixer with more transformers, plus 2 Neve preamps, it will cost way less than 24k, and you will still have money to buy EQs, other pres, and a DAW Controller like the SSL Nucleus with 2 more SSL preamps.
Personally I have a 32 summing mixer, with the same Marinair transformers used in the Neve 8424 plus other transformers and it cost only 2k.
Its much more than a summing mixer. Check out the routing options for example, I dont think you can find anything conprable that match that. The monitoring options is also very good.
Really they marketed it a bit wrong as the 8 ch 8 1073 rack is low priced and with 2 units you’d have a total of 10 chs of 1073 for a low price
who still wants a board with the same preamps anyway? i’d prefer to have uad apollo x system for recording and this bad boy for mixdown than all the other consoles you mentioned. it would be far easier and more versatile in case if there’s revision from the client.
it’s because it’s a neve.. you get neve sound.. and you get to put on your studio site that your mixing down on a neve the most popular brand for consoles
LOL I have this machine and you are talking bollocks mate!
Congrats! Wont pretend I am not jealous :)
But about this video and alot of the comments here... Some people seems to prefer being rude about things they dont understand, instead of trying to figure out what is going on.
I’m kinda new but wouldn’t a person be better off to get a older Neve or SSL console that’s loaded than this small unit? I see some nice consoles that are much more than this but every now and then I see a good deal on one.. that is if you are multi track recording.. and I’m sure most of us probably are.
The problem with the older consoles no matter how good the brand is it eventually they need a lot of maintenance. And you may not be able to find parts or technician to fix those problems unless you live in a major music city.
Older consoles usually needs a lot of maintanence and can also consume A LOT of power. I know studios who stopped using their old Neve consoles because using it also meant that the room became 10 degrees hotter.
Except from that, the 8424 have some nice features which might make it better suited for a more modern hybrid workflow. The recall options are one, as well as the extre C inputs which e.g expands the possibilities to quickly switch between recording and mixing a lot.
@@JJRockford AMS Neve are now offering an Neve 8424 & 1073 OPX Bundle for less than $28,000.
So, I think they got my and others' message loud and clear!
This console is an insult ...no EQ no dynamics no moving faders no daw control ...whats the point? Just volume level? I want to understand who this desk was built for. I would like to see this being used in action with someone who has all the external EQ and such
It does have eq on the groups and on the master buss. Moving faders/daw control can be added as an option.
Here is a user interview: www.ams-neve.site/post/mike-smith-8424?fbclid=IwAR1ngHY7gnKX0VLNg8rUAq1zYpwZ95Z-0h4FBFgeKSbQNH9HK76aZvCb-JU
You can also check the 8424 thread at Gearslutz.
It has DAW control. Don't listen to this guy - it's designed for a pro hybrid studio. Plugins do amazing things that analog can't - digital still can't touch great analog EQs and compressors. It only makes sense if you have outboard gear... I want one.
Yea this is amateur hour lol you should pack it up bro
Whatever,.bro.
Im going to help everyone out here....
anyone that wants basically the "Same thing inside your DAW for $300 -$400
1. Buy Navy 2 and Amethyst 4with Acustica Audio
After Tracking each bus...with Waves...Softube or your favorit Digital Plugin.....
Make a Send effect...and send Navy 2 Strip or Amythest Pre Amp to every Bus...
Get a good level Pre Master Master Mix then
Then on your Master bus
Add Amethyst 4 Pre Amp 2500 Bus...with Navy 2 Comp then a Navy 2 Limiter....
Then Loop that Mix through "Any Affordable Analog Gear...Back into your DAW
Now your Mix with sound...Exactly like its being ran through the 8424
for a Fraction of the Cost....
Thanks for this post! I love me some Acoustica Audio Plugins!
How do you use your plugins to connect and route analog equipment?
@@JJRockford
You dont...
when you do your final pre master of running your mix through whatever "gear you have"
Put Navy 2 or Amethyst 4 on your stereo out on your daw.....turn your out fader down 6db....turn up the out on pre and filter out on Amethyst 4 db then run the mix through your gear....Acustic Audio...will make your gear...sound at least 80% close to the sound on the expensive neve hardware......
I believe the other 20% is not worth paying $40,000
@@JJRockford
but...I also mix down with Nebula first......so my pre mastered music already sounds "analog" before I even run my mix through the gear with Navy, Brown or Amethyst
@@johnisrael5183 Consoles are not only for mixing. Routing and monitoring as just as important.
You are completely right, I mean I guess the analog mixers board game is quite hard nowadays where everyone and their sister is in the box, but yeah this is ridiculous, trying to sell a board without any features, only two preamps... Basically just selling the "Neve" name... No thanks...
Educate your self first. ua-cam.com/video/_SwZm37WWTY/v-deo.html Want cheap and decent? Trident. Want thebest sound you can get? Neve, they will never rip you off.
You’ll probably buy a console like this mainly for being the centerpiece of your studio, connecting everything together, which usually improve e.g routing and monitoring and makes you work faster.
Having looked at the Neve genesys/Black I think I understand what they might have been thinking. The Genesys Black surprised me in that they dont have eq or dynamics controls on the desk - they have to be controled by a plugin from the DAW. Hardware versus software aside, there is a very small jump from controling onboard eq/dyn with a plugin to just using a good eq/dyn plugin in terms of control/workflow in this case. I imagine they were thinking they could take out the onboard eq/dyn and drop the price - but if that was their plan, they should have kept at least 8 premaps or dropped the price to something way more competitive. The SSL XL desk includes per channel 500 series slots. Perhaps something like this would have allowed for some on board expansion and made the desk a little more interesting.
The EQs of that desk has them built into the console however accessible via a plugin like interface but make no mistake its analog!
You dont need a plugin to control the eq and dynamics, it is done directly from some dedicated knobs in the center section.
@@JJRockfordthat’s a lame design.
@@mrhyde2250 A very ergonomic design, where you dont have to stand with your back bent over the console to be able to adjust eq and compressor.
Y'all are adorable.
Large format recording consoles are phasing out that's been on the decline in the past 16 years now. That's why they are getting smaller as cut down versions manly for Hybrid Mixing. The Argosy Console Desks are starting replace a lot of the larger format consoles with smaller mixers installed in them and some without a console at all.
What do u think of the 5060?
That is a summing box it would appear. So it is not exactly comparable to the 8424. Althought is much more reasonably priced.
SSL Sigma or Dangerous Music D-BOX+ would be the hardware I would personally look into for analog summing duties.
The heritage audio MCM 20.4 is also another interesting option
@@RealHomeRecording ”…not exactly…”, that must be the understatement of the year :)
None of the products in your video is exactly comparable to the 8424.
You found a lot of other great options that would work way better for you, and they're way cheaper. That's rad. So what's the issue here? Don't buy the neve haha
8424 Console
Made in their British factory. 24 channel console each fader is numbered, 16 channels on left, 8 to the right. 4 group faders in the front. All channels are balanced +4db u. Use 80 series voltage mixing which is found on the 88R consoles. It is easy to use, no steep learning curve.
All 24 channels have 2 line inputs. Input B is the default recording and you can control your levels with the red knob up front on each channel. Center section has two 1073 mic pres with input and output transformers. You are able to drive the mic pres with the rotary trim pot. Phase button, impedance switch for low impedance situations which include ribbon mics. They can be set to channels 17 and 18, and the two DI’s which have connections in the front to 19 and 20 with no patching. Two 500 slots so you can put in AMS Neve EQ’s. If you want to use your own mic’s, just connect them to input B in the back of the console. There is a digitally controlled trim which shows up on the display on the bottom of the menu. There is a 8 stage led meter which displays it in PPM scale and it gives you 24 db of headroom. Three Aux sends or stereo cue send and you can add any outboard gear their the channel insert. Every channel has a direct output that can be boosted up to 10 db. Can be pre or post fader. FNS option allows you to remotely controller the OPX 8 channel unit.
Listen back to the entire mix through room monitoring input, individual channels by pushing the input to input A, or ILN mode (In line mixing). You can route your DAW signal into the Stereo cue which becomes the small fader and pan fader for the recording. You can monitor latency free. Cue can provide headphone mix. You can provide mix with 2 separate mixes with Aux 2 and 3 with the separate headphone outputs. There is talkback mic on the console without any patches or cabling. It also has a return talkback. Can be used as an additional input as it has its own input control into the unit.
For mixing: Dual input channel strip. Input A is DAW connection. Switch globally to Mix A or go on a channel by channel basis for input A and have other channels that you are recording for Mix B for input recording. Each trim level and output level can be saved for each channel on the console. When you do a recall, it will jump to the setting you had for the song. There are 3 mono sends and one stereo cue send. There is also two stereo reverb returns. There are also inserts for the group channels. Each channel can be sent to any of the group channels or main output mix. There is a group to pan function. That allows the group to follow the pan control in creating stereo stems. When deactivated, pan pot will not affect the group routing which creates mono stems. You can mix up to 48 channels. Each channel has level and pan control with the stereo cues. You can metering 25-48 as well. Input C is used for this. Group 3 and 4 can be used as another stereo bus feature for those channels. Input A can be sent to the fader and Cue at the same time. This allows parallel mixing.
Master control section: two large VU meters for main mix, aux or mix bus signals. Reverb returns into the consoles. Each has level and balance controls. It has its own cue controls as well. They can be routed to the group as well and print reverb in the DAW. Pre or post aux, global console inputs. Solo in place, AFL and PFL.
AFL bus has marinar transformers. 2 band shelving EQ on the 4 group faders and stereo bus. 220 and 10kh. There is also a stereo width function that is the same that is on the AMS Neve Genesis consoles. It can go all the way to mono. Switchable inserts can be pre or post fader on group channels. You can use the 500 series insert on the 2 bus. You can assign the 500 series EQ to the mono groups as well. They can also be used as an insert in the 1073’s or DI inputs.
Control room monitor section, 3 external signals. You can play reference tracks from your smart phone into the main outs. Large monitor level knob, dim button, dim control level, mono and 3 loudspeaker outputs. Each has their own atinuator. Routing and switching options is on the LED screen. All the faders, pots, pan and trims, Aux where you manually reset. 99 settings.
It also provides the option of automation with scribble strips.
This is a wonderful unit and the quality and sound is much better than lower end consoles in my opinion.
bro why just not buy the ssl neuclus then???? or maybe ssl matrix? This is a JOKE!
@@BrijeshSarin I have a matrix that this 8424 is replacing, and for 10,000 less dollars you lose 75% of the feature set this console offers. Idk if you can do the math but something like the matrix is an even bigger rip than something of this caliber would be by today's standards. Maybe 10 years ago the matrix would be a good buy but now that this behemoth is on the market, you'd have to be delusional!!!
@@XRROW_ Congratulations!
A summing bus with faders, no automation. WTF were they thinking?!?
The main purpose is not summing, even if it of course can do that. Otherwise it can be used as any other console, as the centerpiece of your studio, to which you have all your equipment connected and ready to be used. It also have very good monitoring options.
I'll wait for Behringer version... :D
LOL. Or rather the"Klark Teknik", right?
It reminds me more of an on air consoles and I am not referring to the desks DJs use.
I like the layout but yeah. It ain't for me. I would only use a console for tracking and I really like at least minimal EQ for that.
Just put any eq you want in the insert then?
Otherwise, there are the Genesys series Neve.
you had me until you said adat lol
You don't even get the point of the Neve. IT HAS A RECALL FUNCTION! It is not meant for people who want to mix in the daw. I is for people you just want top mix everything with the outboard gear they have, and than use the recall to get fast Recallability.
Look, I also think its a bit to expansive. And it is a little bit too big in terms of size for my studio. And I don't need two mic press on that thing, that just driving the price for no reason. But damn this thing lets you mix completely out of the box, with inserts, sends and everything, and lets you recall everything on the console in like 5 minutes. If there would be a 16 channel version and if I had a bit more money to spare I would buy that thing instantly...
Did the 8424's design change since this video was posted? If it did then I will need to update it.
See the reaction from the initial product launch at gearspace.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/1315895-introducing-neve-8424-console.html .
As one poster put it, "a glorified summing box and a semi-automated switchbox at an outrageous price!"
”A poster” from Gearspace, a very good and reliable source 😂
👍for this video ! Sir, I want to upgrade my Audio interface (focusrite 2i2 2nd gen ). Which one is better audient ID14 or focusrite clarett 2pre. Pls suggest me.
anything but Focusrite. Focusrite might have decent preamps but drivers are total junk, lots of pops and clicks and drop outs etc
I only have experience with the iD14. I have no problem recommending it.
Id14 sounds much better to me but like me you’ll be dis appointed for many other reasons ( i currently use one with my Mac book ) I’d recommend you consider the MUTO
Id14. It sounds so really good.
The 2 input SSL, better deal and not pricey at all. Compatible with the 2i2 in fact, maybe 40 bucks or so more. The software they give you with is costs more than the interface if purchased alone! Including the SSL software bundle, pretty sweet deal.
ssl xl desk also under 20k pres plus buss comp
That thing looks sweet! Didn't know SSL did 500 series module desks!
Less inputs, less faders, no recall, no DAW control. Dont get me wrong, the XL-desk is probably a very good option if you want kind of the same tracking and monitoring features as the 8424, but it’s ”smaller” in almost every comparable aspect.
@@JJRockford if you watch the SSL vid they say you can double up the inserts and use a few other tricks to get more tracks. I think 52 total.
@@woodendoors9532 Yes, but it still has less inputs than then 8424; The 8424 have three inputs per channel, which means you can have both recording gear and DAW outputs connected all the time and switch between 48 channel mixdown (plus the two stereo returns) and 24 channel recording by just pressing a button.
The 48 channels at mixdown are also ”proper” channels with their own level and pan.
@@JJRockford Still not worth $25k. No EQ or 500 series for compression. Only two mic pres, etc.
It's nice to compare other offerings and list their Pros. It's clownish to end with a b*tch fest against the Neve. Don't like it? Move on. Don't you have music projects to tend to?
This is a joke - Neve go to hell for trying to $$$ gouge customers for this large paperweight.!
Large paperweight! I love it!
You are current about all of this.
Please go watch the video from neve on this console.
They got used to make money out of the name alone,
They make money because they develop and sell products enough people wants to buy.
I agree again
treztracks Again?
good man. tell it like it is
A used 02v2 yamaha with 2ssl sigmas or 2of the never 8preamo rack with the adda built in front s a better choice at a1/3 of the cost
I have to say you are kinda spot on all these consoles that are all analog that you showed have Mic and line level so it does the summing. A console at that cost better at least have 8 to 16 pre inputs
Exactly. It's a about value per dollar. unless people just want something with the Neve brand name slapped on it. Which in that case, buy a sticker.
@@RealHomeRecording exactly. Nowadays modern and new companies are all about quality and price and giving you a good bang for your buck. This console costs enough to buy some decent cars and it does the bare minimum. I might as well buy something else.
In the DAW It costs as much as a Honda. But it’s made by Rolls Royce.
@@G_handle I would rather buy 16 bae 1073s put em in a console and add faders it would cost less
@@G_handle trident console's are also highly sought after
No Recall On Any Of These Bro
Most things on this desk is recallable, if you add the motorized faders option the faders are automatically recallable as well.
@Chad Gillihan ?
The API is the best choice out of all of these, imo.
Your absolutely correct man! That’s a joke.
Do you really think Neve would put out a product without careful research about what their present and future customers need?
If it had EQ on every channel I could maybe hear them out.
Then you should look at their Genesys/Genesys Black consoles.
Maybe we could end such silly videos now, at least until you actually tried one and understood what it is.
Here is the conclusion from SoundOnSounds review:
”Of course, you pay for this sort of quality and versatility, and for most of us running even well-specified home studios, the 8424 is likely to be something we can only aspire to. It’s competitively priced for a Neve but, in terms of potential customers, there’s some overlap with more inexpensive products, such as
API’s The Box 2 and a handful of other 500-series-host mixers, from the likes of Looptrotter, Ocean Audio and Purple Audio. Yet, while these may be more affordable, they lack many of the 8424’s big-console features. SSL’s Matrix 2 and XL-Desk arguably offer more overlap
but, still, neither comes close to doing everything the 8424 can, and nor do more traditional consoles in this price bracket, such as Audient’s ASP8024 HE or the Trident 78.”
Keep in mind though, Sound on Sound has to appease their advertisers in order to keep the lights on and food in the fridge. I do not.
"It’s competitively priced for a Neve but..."
That's the most accurate statement. I have confidence that this product will fail and Neve will release something much better at the same or less price.
RealHomeRecording.com Well, first of all, I dont think someone who runs a UA-cam channel which relies 100% on click based adverts should accuse others on being biased in their reviews.
Secondly, you are focusing on the wrong part of the SoS conclusion; As you might see they mention more or less all of your suggested ”alternatives” and concludes that none of them offers all the functionality of the 8424.
(Of course you need to read the complete review to understand why, or at least dig into the documentation of the 8424, and. ot just judge the book by the cover...)
@@JJRockford "Well, first of all, I dont think someone who runs a UA-cam channel which relies 100% on click based adverts should accuse others on being unbiased in their reviews."
I'm not accusing them of being unbiased. I am accusing them of potential bias. This is based on their ad rates, which last I checked was $3,000 for a full page ad. Or was it a 2-page spread? Either way...it was a good chunk of money.
Also remember if SoS were to write something like I did in this video, they would probably no longer be sent product demos from Neve. I have had that happen to me a couple times after giving bad reviews.
I'm not saying the Neve is a bad board for some people. A very small select group of people who care more about name than features. And who have more money and space than they know what to do with.
It's just not a good product for most people...considering the available options. That's all. If I purchased one, it would be a waste of space besides a waste of money. There is much better studio equipment to drop $25,000 on.
RealHomeRecording.com Sorry, english is not my first language. The word I was looking for was of course biased.
RealHomeRecording.com Of course products like this aims for a small group of people. But that doesnt mean that those people are fools who just buy something for the name. Rather the opposite, those are rather people who really understands the features of this console and how to use them. And then there are no alternatives.
I didn’t know neve is not a daw controller
The 8424 have DAW control as an option.
Very true, my good sir !
Maybe someone slipped and released the prototype $$$?
No band makes that much money to buy a desk like that gearfacts live in a stream world
how many streams to pay for that desk hahaha
That's a damn good question.
30k spread over a few years is not much if you have a decent professional business.
@@JJRockford tell me how much income does 1 million music streams generate and then realistically tell me a business that could generate enough income to pay for the desk.
@@theprogrammerrolandmc3039 What kind of relevance do you think a question like that have? We can assume that Neve, who have been at the very top of this risky business since the 70s, make a VERY extensive market research before starting to develop a new product like this. If there wasnt a market for a mixer with this price and feature, they wouldnt put any effort and resources to make it.
@@JJRockford This is not the 70's no one sells albums now and no one can make money from tours. Streaming on social media like youtube and music streaming sites has killed music companies like neive will bankrupt themselves.
They should have made a Neve version of The Box 2. The features just aren't there.
Or, API should try to make their version of the 8424.
Except being ”mixing consoles”, the Box and the 8424 are two very different products. However, it would be much easier to make the 8424 replace the Box then the opposite.
@@JJRockford I get it. But honestly if there's no preamps/EQ's...I'd rather buy really good converters and a Louder Than Liftoff Silver Bullet. Saving money for something else, while also saving a ton of space. This is a "small" format console, but it still takes up a lot of room for basically being a summing mixer. Lastly, I love the sound of the current Neve Genesys generation consoles, so I'm sure this sounds great in use. I'm just again...wishing it had better features suited for MY workflow. A 16 or 24 channel console with full EQ on each channel would be fantastic. Even if it had no Mic Pres for example. Just my opinion...I'm usually a huge Neve fanboy.
@@TheCarymillerIf you look at the 8424 as ”basically a summing mixer” you really miss a lot (well, most…) of the features if this console. It could very well be that it is just because those things would never be of any benefit for you personally, but how many products do that? :) On the other hand, the flexibility and modular nature of the 8424; With the right setup it will be able to replace any other console mentioned in this video (even if it of course might come at a price…).
If you only need eq and summing there are of course a lot of cheaper optioms though.