The negative feedback of light in the tithing process makes sense with the bomb logic. Instead of tithe being pulled upwards to a single point, it’s being spread outward radially to those around it. Wait… the Sword logic works up the chain like a big *pyramid* scheme, whereas the Bomb logic spreads outwardly in all direction like some sort of *sphere* 🤔
The Witch Queens lore is some of the best in the game by far, personally I'm hoping for more of the Lucent Brood in the future. They have a boat load of story potential.
You should take a step back amd read some books. Calling yhis new stiff garbage is being kind. No set up, no progression. No storytelling. It just ping pongs to events cuz reasons.
The Darkness demands a cult-like mentality. Pay heed to your superiors, everything you do belongs to them. The Light works in reverse - your superiors help you to become stronger, more powerful. It seems as though The Light/The Darkness work differently depending on who/what society uses their powers. Think of The Taken power vs Stasis, or how this reverse tithe works for the Lucent Brood. Because the LB have experience with Guardians, The Light gave them familiar powers - ours.
Darkness and Light are both Neutral forces. What you mean is the Witness / Traveler. And even then your Logic is flawed in one regard: The Traveler didn't spread the Light to Humans out of kindness. It did so purely to save its own skin.
@@CedricBassman that might not even be true. We still do not know why Humanity was chosen as its first light bearers that we know of. For me there are two possibilities, first it has no where left to run and we are its last chance or second it had been looking for the right place to make its stand. I honestly feel that there is a chance that all 5 species destiny, Hive Vex Eliksni Cabal and Human/Exo/Awoken, will all have light bearers.
@@goodolboston4522I think we were the last resort, but then we became a chance at redemption. We were the only ones who didn’t seek out the vail, didn’t want to take more power. And with that the traveler may have found hope and then wanted to become our guardian as well
Would be interesting to see a story play out with a season about lucent brood defectors and the internal fighting of the coalition, vanguard, and the city to deal with them. Either to take their word and let them into the city walls or cast them out. I could see Caiatl being heavily against it and threatening to break the coalition, but Mithrax and Crow trying to fight for them to be accepted as they see themselves in them. Being part of struggle for survival for humanity and the cabal.
@@radicalgremlin6440 if the city reacted as it did for the Eliksni, who have comparatively not been anywhere near as bloodthirsty, then the city would probably implode from outrage.
This just makes me hope that my dream of a new introduction quest during the Final Shape/Lightfall which just has a new light getting introduced to the "resistance" of Human, Cabal, Lucent Brood, Eliskni and Vex all working together against the Darkness, as to send the New Lights off planet it's here taking a job to power some Vex construct with Hive Magic and rebuilding the gate with Elinski and human support
They also need to bring back the planet missions. Have the Lost Sector/Public event mission, then the planet mission will be a step in the New Light Quest.
This would be really hard to pull off, as all of the available expansions would take place *before* the "resistance" was created. It would just confuse any brand new players who would purchase any old expansions, unless Bungie could make some clever and easy-to-understand explanation as to why you're playing through the past.
@@abyss6722 ok but cade is dead, yet we see him in strikes, the VOG shield appears in two raids, (and is canonically the same artifact in both), so why cant we have old missions also "frozen in time"?
Bungie: "Oh, you thought you had a good grasp on Destiny's giant and somewhat confusing lore?" *Drops the Witch Queen expansion* Bungie: "Now try to get you head around our game's lore! Bit difficult if some of our most important and well known lore bits ends up with a completely different meaning with only a few additional words! We are as unpredictable as our own game engine/Telesto!"
Maybe it's something people already knew, but I find that Specter lore entry fascinating because there's like... Hive detective? Hive criminal justice system? Please, tell me more, I need Hive crime noir! Also, the fact that Spectre calls Nabenki looking at him a sign of "potential illness" is just sad.
Yeah, I find that pretty surreal. Outside of the Hive Gods and some of their closest subordinates, it's hard to see the Hive as anything more than mindless beasts, but they aren't. They have buildings and spaceships, so they must have architects and scientists. They have glyphs which means they can read and write, and they even have a holiday called Eversion Day that celebrates the creation of Oryx's dreadnaught. It would be cool if we could have more neutral encounters with them and learn more about the "mundane" aspects of Hive life.
There's so much I desperately want to know about Hive culture and their day to day lives. Every time I hear Immaru talking on the Throne World it makes me think of like, a bunch of Hive acolytes sitting around in a barracks, playing games and chatting while they wait for deployment.
I have a few ideas: The lore around Lord Saladin's first years as an Iron Lord. He gets his own lore book about it with this season. The inclusion of Mithrax, and how that might foreshadow the next season. The reintroduction of Spider through this year's Guardian Games The shifting moralities of the Hive Guardians in the Lucent Brood in the Lucent Tales lore book. And speculation on what the next season may be.
Considering the infinite possibilities, it's plausible that a few clusters of Vex may reach the conclusion that allying with humanity would lead to a timeline where they are not overtaken by Darkness. Guardians are the only paracausal force that could be reasoned with.
When embracing the Sword Logic/Darkness, the agency and possibility for the Kril to be other things then the Hive was *Taken*. When the Lucent Brood embraced the Bomb Logic/Light, the possibility for them to things was *Given* back. It’s important to know that any Hive that had a conscious or sense of decency would’ve swiftly culled from The Hive thanks to the Tithing system, if not corrupted by it. It’s not unlike in Warhammer Fantasy, where all Skaven are evil, because any Skaven with tendencies for decency are murdered by their kin (usually with a smile on their snouts). The Sword Logic by it’s own tenets makes little-to-no room for things like compassion, sympathy/empathy, forgiveness, or peaceful coexistence. Since the Lucent Brood are not strictly tied to the Sword Logic and Tithing, this means that some among them may end up developing those traits. That or any of them that are good-natured will less likely be culled or corrupted. This doesn’t mean the Lucent Brood are good now, and many of their number still relish murder, domination, torture, and conquest regardless. BUT It means it’s possible for some Lucent Brood to reconsider their options.
Honestly I just want to see the Lucent separate from the sword and shield logics, to forge a new one. A new trinity. Sword, Shield, Staff. Staff representing the art of magic. Sword, as the Blade. Shield, as the Wall. Staff, as the Magic. Sword is hunter. Shield is Titan. Staff, is warlock. The three logics. Staff logic, is a balance between sword and shield. Sword is of endless darwinism. Shield is of granting a chance to everything. Staff, would be to allow for there to be a chance, but not everyone can be able to live. Sacrifices must be made, but it's to make sure that the world can continue in a safer way. It's like chess. Not everyone can survive. Sacrifices come, and death is an inevitability. Live to the fullest, and make sure that you make something of yourself. Dont necessarily seek out imperialism and conquest, nor defend everyone with blind faith. Use morality and logic. Heart and Smarts. Protect those who seek to make things just in a moral sense of equality.
Yep, just like with humanity in the Dark Ages and the warlords epoch eventually breaking through that and fixing itself up. Light alone does not reform the mentalities of those who recieve it, they still retain free will, which is still useable for malicious deeds that even contradict the principles of Light. Darkness replaces free will with the Sword Logic and leaves only the deadliest, dominant and most invasive lifeforms, pre-determined to be who they are from the start and fated to serve a single strict purpose (like that of a sword which is made only to cut through and slay) while the Light doesn't explicitly do it, but indirectly promotes the least selfish, more protective and traditionally heroic (those who allow others to grow and develop no matter how weak they are from the start and shape their own fate). When the darkness-enslaved races break free from it and the laws they were biologically forced to abide by, they regain free will and the potential to develop further as a species, changing the mentality along with the social structure, though that potential still needs to be brought into actuality, just like humanity which did.
@@zynet_eseled While this concept is interesting it is kind of overstretching it, since the idea of "shield logic" doesn't hold up to the lore. Because the Sword came first, and only then the Shield. The Shield is a tool specifically engineered to stop and defeat a Sword, and not the other way around. It is actually the other way around in the universe : the Sword (logic) is a speciality tool engineered for death, conquest, judgement and establishment of superiority. The community sometimes mentions the "Seed logic" which is the process of fostering lifeforms and letting them freely grow and develop, contemplating it. It was meant to be self-sufficient and eternal. Then came the suicidal "Parasite" which is the Darkness that employs the Sword Logic. It engineers lifeforms to exclusively bring conquest and death and depend on it, or to perish otherwise. But where there's no life, there's no death, just like when the host dies, the parasite dies. They find new "hosts" to kill until there's none left, and so they all die too, leaving total death as the one final thing that "exists" in the end. Now, obviously, the purpose of any "sane" parasite by evolutionary standarts is to survive. Which means it needs the host to be alive and trive so that they thrive together. And so it helps the host, resulting in a symbiosis. Applying that "non-suicidal parasite and host symbiosis" logic to the fusion between Light and Darkness which is the key to defeat the Darkness is rather tricky. It's the variation of the "Seed Logic" that subordinates and uses the Sword to its advantage, to strengthen itself, to give power and the ability to judge to the hands of the Light's creations, so that the "brightest" most vitalistic life-affirming remain, and the "darkest" most parasitic and death-affirming fall. Just like the power of the Light, the power of the Darkness is merely a tool. The Guardians can now wield both, meaning they will either move on to this new fusion of "Logics" and philosophies, or fall to the temptation and lies of the Witness and go for pure Sword Logic. It's an extreme longshot and will most likely not be true, but maybe just maybe we're going to recieve an actual Darkness-enhanced Light to wield that manifests this fusion Logic, near the end of the entire game or in the final DLC. How to tie the Lucent Hive into this is still unclear, but I figure they are going to become the key to obtaining it because they are the only ones to have ever been converted to the Light directly from the Darkness. They just didn't get the chance to play their part to the full yet so we just have to wait (Witch Queen was an interlude chapter that winds up another story arc that will further develop and converge with the main Beyond Light one, just like Forsaken was too a break from the main plotline that continued to advance with Shadowkeep.)
A global physiological change of a species upon receiving the Light isn't without precedent. It is highly implied that the increase to human lifespan after the Traveler arrived had less to do with human advancement in life extension, and was a side effect of the Traveler's presence. And also, there is the immortality of the Awoken to consider as well.
the way I see the little sparks of light in living beings is like a mark the traveler puts on things kind of like how a dog marks its territory like its a way of telling the witness that "I've helped these people I've affected their lives in the way you hate"
Hey Byf? I've a theory for you to look into. So in Immaru's Lucent Tales lore tab, He's getting upset that Human Guardians are killing Hive Ghosts. He then makes a statement that confuses me. He says, "Everyone-Fallen, Vex, even Hive-every last one of 'em knows you don't shoot the medic. But nobody told these jokers apparently." But this confuses me for a couple reasons; Every Race in Sol at this time has at least 2-3 Ghost Kills under their belt,. We have Lore Tabs of Eliksni and Cabal murdering them (The Vex being the exception as they just write them out the Timeline or Drain the Light from them). And he claims HIVE don't kill Ghosts.... But this is blatantly untrue... Which brings me to my theory; Could the Hive Ghosts be being mind controlled with the Ghost Shells they wear? I think it's a possibility that they are, as the Weapons of Sorrow are then implied to soon be used by the Hive, by Savathun, as said Immaru Book. The Weapons of Sorrow include Thorn which Corrupted Rezyl Azzir into Dredgen Yor, and my thought is that The Hive Shells are also imbued with the same Hive Magic that caused his fall... And that the reason Fynch is the only Hive Ghost who is allied with us (as far as we know)... is cause his Shell is Damaged.
I still want to know where the Hive Ghost’s shells came from. Ghost shells in general I suppose, but especially the mass amount of Hive Ghosts that have these shells.
@@progenitor_amborella I can't remember where I read this, I think it's from the collectors edition lore, but I read the Ghosts are altering their own shells to be Hive like to be more readily trusted by their partners.
@@PeriqculosusCZ The theory is that the Hive Ghost Shells are made using the same tech as the Weapons of Sorrow... which have existed for a very long time already... so Immaru having that type of Shell isn't impossible... it just means he had the first version of it... i.e. Theory still holds.
Honestly I think that'd be an awesome game mode. 'Pvp' but it's guardians vs lucent hive on a massive map with various objectives were competing against the hive for. Capture points, CtF, Juggernaut, etc.
Personal theory: The mention of negative pressure within the hive's system thanks to the light is in line with how the light functions as a whole in the sense that it is one for all vs the darkness's all for one. Powerful light bearers spread their power to other guardians in the form of orbs of power/light slowly making everyone stronger as a whole, a similar system may be employed here as the light hijacked the hives societal ladder. I believe that instead of a physiological change (excluding the lucent moths and obvious exoskeleton/carapace changes) the light has instead not eliminated the blood tithing but reversed it. Making it now a system where if your commander/leader satiates their worm, instead of going up, it goes down. This reduces the Para causal growth of the high ranking hive and instead increases the amount of hive that survive the earlier stages of their lives mainly thrall and acolytes. This grows the overall population of the lucent brood and subsequently means that while the hive in the future may have less high ranking figures in the form ascendant hive such as Alak-hul. The population of standard Knights, Wizards and Acolytes will begin the skyrocket. Just how the dreg is a deformed malnutritional Vandal. The thrall/cursed thrall/Ogres are expendable resources meant to die, that is until the introduction of the light. Through natural selection thrall will begin to move more strategically and think freely in combat since they aren't in a hurry to feed their worms and thus the ones to survive will be ones who use the light to it's full extend by being passive and strategic. This new generation of hive (as seen in human society) will be softer and more willing for peace. While not holding any of the 'hive political power' the older more ascendant members may hold, their sheer numbers will overpower the old hive ideologies and make way for what will most likely we are already seeing; A hive renaissance. Where the throne world may act as a shelter and base of operations for Hive guardians to be welcomed/supported by non-militaristic hive, just as we see non-militaristic Eliksni within the city walls.
A system where tribute by feeding the worm passes down rather than up would lead to total equity (equilibrium), after a point the Lucent Hive would be brought to a common denominator with none standing out, the stronger outright directly giving away their power to the weaker for free, and It's not exactly what Light is about. Light gives opportunity for everyone to develop in power, rather than artificially pump them with it (As shown with the failure of Ghaul). Those who work harder and strengthen their bond with it more, end up standing out, but leading less powerful others as "First among equals" that further help the less powerful look up to them and grow themselves (They essentially become Light-like and spread it, incorporating its philosophy through their hard work, altruistic and heroic acts and just leadership). This is the one-for-all principle. The light orbs are a manifestation of that, but they are only generated as a by-product of light usage, not re-distributed. What that kind of hive would be is all-for-all, which is the same as one-for-one.
hasnt it been said multiple times that the light flows through all things, provided it not be doused in darkness? i imagine the lack of the inherent darkness the hive usually have would allow the more natural light to flow into the lucent brood, let alone the presence of hive lightbearers
As Speaker said, The Light lives in all places, In all things. You can block it, even try to trap it. But the Light will always find its way. Time for him to be risen and say something like "called it".
I love that darkness, associated with it's taking. Takes from the tribute created from all the creatures down pyramid to the top like a pyramid scheme. But with the light the pyramid is the opposite with light being GIVEN down the chain of tribute
The thing that still bugs me about this is Stasis. Eramis essentially took the Darkness while we were given the Darkness why aren't we receiving backlash or diminished utility or something of tht nature
not JUST down the chain, in a giant CIRCLE because EVERYONE benefits! The light blesses us with power, we use that power to not just empower humanity but to empower and protect all who embraces the light. including the Traveler. the traveler then blesses us with more light. CIRCLE repeats! The Witness wants to BREAK the cycle!
I think the traveller believes that the only way to win is to unite as many species's as possible, giving savathun the light we didn't lose any light, but we saw it as theft and took her down
Well, she was planning to seal the Traveler in her Throne World which would have lost the light for us for good. She did actually try to rob us of the light.
@@johnromero6315 I think I’m a way, she wasn’t trying to steal the light but protecting the traveler from the witness, right now if Oryx was alive he would see Savathun as a traitor to Sword Logic/Darkness. She in her mind was protecting the traveler to take it to another place.
@enriqueperezarce5485 You're definitely not wrong. I don't think her goal was to steal the light from us, but achieving her goal would have robbed us of the light as an inevitable byproduct. I also don't think that her motives were as pure as "protecting the Traveler" so much as "keeping the Traveler out of the Witness's hands." It's always been about self-preservation for her.
It gives an idea of what Krill design looks like, as opposed to that of the hive. Hive design is jagged. Bony. And dangerous. Violent. If we are to go off of the design of Lumina as a blueprint for possible Krill architecture, it looks to be quite natural. That of forests. Vines. Roots. Society. Connections. And magic. If I could describe all the faction's architectural style would come across as, its these: Eliksni: Scavenger and makeshift. A language of underdogs, and making do with what's available. Not truly sophisticated in most capacities, yet have a reasonable understanding of tech. Krill: Natural. A world of nature, vines, and forests. Taking cues of terra, and life. Vex. Mechanical. Brutalist. Advanced. Robotic. Its not about being truly flamboyant. Its functional to a machine. Yet it prioritizes efficiency. Cabal. Brutalist. Sharp. And focused. Sharp again, with jagged and straight lines. Militaristic and full functional. Nothing meant to embody subtlety. Its large, loud, but it works to the core.
@@zynet_eseled Human tech would be jack of all trades in design and functionality. It works down to it's core, made with only a handful of materials, may use and function with advanced machinery and may sometimes incorporate some natural designs to it. In particular, weapons with wooden stocks.
@@aztumtheknightofwumbo7060 exactly. Humanity tends to take influence from surroundings. Which is why human made weaponry can vary so much in its design language
The darkness focuses on a state of simplicity, with one creature above all others, focusing on a singular point for power to collect. Hence the worms are parasitic, as they must be dominant or subservient to the hive, and if they were subservient the hive would have cut them away. The light focuses on a state of complexity, with many parts in a moving system working together to make the whole stronger than the sum of its parts. Hence a light worm would logically be symbiotic, as to be in the light would have them working with the host to be stronger than either would be apart.
I'm still waiting on the reaction of the House of Light from all these events. Can you imagine the fury Mithrax has seeing the Hive of all beings be given the gift of the Light of the Great Machine? And to top it off we are even trying to have some sort of alliance with the defecting Lucent Hive? (hypothetically speaking the defection does begin to happen, just like how the Cabal under Caiatl also have psion defectors)
@@Mate397 i mean Mithrax is very much polite. Besides he and his House are still in the process of joining into the city proper. Dont think hed be unwise to start making claims and loose his tempe
@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 Sure the guy is more stoic but I can't see him not having at least some kind of anger bubbling in him seeing that creatures of darkness get gifted the Light while his people went through so much suffering to prove worthy of such grace.
I dunno if I am crazy or not but I could have almost sword that The Scorn this season started faded yellow and changed hue to purple later in the season. I wonder if that is like a subtlety to the Scorn becoming principally darkness empowered.
Bungie recolored the Scorn to showcase likely who's in command of them at that given area or moment. Fikrul still leads his Scorn in the Dreaming City while Calus, and Rhulk commanded the Scorn elsewhere.
This is fascinating. I wonder if this alteration of the hive-worm relationship will perhaps provide an out for Hive that want a way out of the Sword Logic, like Nokris did? Maybe we’ll be seeing defectors from the most lowly, cast-out broods of Hive join the Lucent Brood in an attempt to use the Light to escape the need for endless slaughter. The Hive are being divided along the lines of Light and Dark, and a grey area where those like Nokris that want neither inhabit. Sounds familiar to what guardians have experienced.
Reminds me of how semiconductors work - the flow can be seen as either electrons flowing one way, or ‘holes’ flowing the other way (p-type and n-type semiconductors). The Traveller has ‘doped’ the system. Instead of ‘holes’ (emptiness, darkness) flowing one way, now there is light overfilling the holes before they get the chance to move up the tithe hierarchy. ‘Hunger’ is a hole and this retro-flowing light is sating that hunger.
Even before this, I've heard a couple of instances of strange behaviour from the Lucent Brood. Apparently, there was a Lightbearer Acolyte who kept committing suicide repeatedly because the Light felt "wrong." There was also reportedly a Lightbearer Knight who killed a Guardian but spared their Ghost after hesitating to kill it.
Byf, your content is amazing and has added so much to my enjoyment of this excellent game. That said, if you need to slow things down and look after yourself don't worry about us. We'll wait if you need to take breaks and we'll be here when you get back.
I can't believe that people are saying that the hive will be the new good guys of the story just because they were chosen by the traveler, the light and the dark are not these simple one sided entities of good and evil, which means that even if someone has the light that doesn't mean that they are the "good guys". Plus the fact that newly born hive have some light in them is not particularly surprising since their literal queen and god has light powers now, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that the light of savathun is reforming everything in the throneworld and everything new that's being born from it since a throneworld is just an extension of an ascendant being's soul.
I dont think they are gonna end up being the bew good guys of the story. Im not sure if this is the same thing or what you mean, but I feel like everything that is happening is leading up to that gigantic conflict in Lightfall, and we are gonna have factions of each race fighting for either side. Caitl and Calus for cabal, Mithrax and Eramis for eliksni, Savathu'un and Xivu Arath for hive, (purely speculation here forward) something vex lead by Ashir Mir and the Sol Divisive for vex, Fikrul and Crow for Scorn. That would follow a pattern that I personally would enjoy a lot.
Funny that playable hive guardians seems more possible day by day. Feels insane and so exiting like it did waaaay back when Foresaken launched. Honestly i feel like this is the start of a Golden Age for d2 with how genuinely amazing the lore is getting season after season. So glad to have you breaking it down for us everytime Byf. Thank you.
I had the thought that at least some of the Hive could become allies for the coming battle, but the idea of redemption makes this whole thing so much more interesting. They are outdoing themselves with the story. The Hive were always exclusively the enemy, but the idea that they could be more than just a simple “enemy of my enemy is my friend.” I feel like a lot of people would have a hard time accepting this because we tend to think pretty black and white generally, but I REALLY hope they take this potential plot point and run with it.
You may have covered this already, but the developing relationship between Crow and Amanda Holiday and how it has become complicated now that she knows who he is would be a great topic. I’m hoping Bungie takes this and runs with it. The Sweet Sorrow lore tab from this season is particularly good.
Idk if anyone has mentioned this but the lucent moths I think support this idea. A moth develops from a worm-like creature (caterpillar). Could it be that the darkness was suppressing the natural growth of the worms or that the light transformed them into moths?
I’ve been wondering that about Eris. If she could regain her light but retain her memories by being chosen by a Hive Ghost. Yes, she was drained of her light long ago, but whose to say she can’t be chosen again by a new ghost? A Hive Ghost? It’d certainly be ironic, considering that she is the “Hive’s Bane”, and would rather see the Osmium Dynasty crumble with every member of its lineage. Though that may happen one day, us and Eris may keep the Lucent Hive around if they prove to be trustworthy allies. Eris would certainly be a greater threat to the dark-beholden Hive, wielding light and darkness.
Kinda but no. You forget (or don’t know) how many things that had to go right so we could save saint-14 and this is after X amount of years Osiris spent trying to save his best mate. This has been discussed before because the community wanted to bring back cayde
@@garrettviewegh677 Pretty sure eris is a hive human hybreed now so she either needs the tithing to give her light again (through helping any hive guardian allies) or we need to find out how savathun got light. I know that savathun was ment to have light the whole time but consider this. The witness would likely make it so the hive couldnt get chosen by the traveler by removing the sparks in them so its likly that he either planned this (scary) or savathun has a prosess to reignite light in a potental light bearer (could mabey even revive ghosts with some experementing).
The detail that the worm is satiated is very interesting. I always considered the worms to be the ghosts of hive. They are of the worm gods as the ghosts are of the traveler. The implication that they could abandon the darkness has uncomfortable implications for our ghosts.
But we are the ultimate instruments of death. It references that several times in-game throughout D2. We as light-bearers would easily feed the worms if we had them. So in theory, the Hive worm might be more satiated than ever.
Possibly, but if the Light is the pinnacle of what satiates them, what happens when they want more? Savathûn resorted to cursing the Dreaming City and hunting the Distributary because her worm sas becoming unsatisfied with the usual level of tribute. If they become unsatisifed with a steady stream of Light, the worms could still devour the Hive if they don't turn to something else
Maybe Xivu reacts with understanding and forgives the Witness. If she is a true disciple, she would see why the Witness tricked them. If that happens we're in for a lot of trouble. I could see Sav fighting Xivu. A hive light vs dark
The line about "negative ptessure" made me think it's likely that the Light spread from Savathun downward to her brood in an inverted mirror of how the tithe system sent the energy of death upward through the heirarchy.
Couple things: 1) It's funny how just a little over 2 years ago, we were discussing how Savathun was attempting to capture the Distributary and generating her "Murder Battery". Now she's just like, "Fuck it. I'll kill myself and roll the dice." 2) Since we know from the lore that Nokris (the Hive Necromancer) had been under her tutelage, I wonder if it was him who gave her the idea of professing herself to the light and allowing herself to be killed. One other personal thing from my end. While I do think the concept of the Lucent Hive is an interesting one, and poses many opportunities for the story going forward... I'm also somewhat hesitant of the idea as well. I think it's mainly rooted in what could be the potential loss of what's arguably the best enemy faction in the game. While that's not to say that you still wouldn't have the Hive Proper to fight, I just don't want to see us discarding another dedicated foe to the box of Neutral or - potentially - Friendly.
@@fysy9989 I would imagine so as well. I just hope Bungie has plans for the future when it comes to enemy factions. From the looks of it, they're basically bringing every major race (Humanity, Awoken, Fallen, Cabal, and Hive) together, or along similar goals, to fight back The Witness. Once the dust clears on whatever becomes of that, who's the next antagonist? Erimus again? Calus?
Considering Xivu Arath, I really don’t think we have to worry about the Hive becoming “friendly.” She’s the most powerful being we’ll have ever faced, likely, because we’ll be trying to fight the god of war… in a war.
It might also suggest that the hive are developing at least some sort of self preservation given the fact that if the thrall was being tortured by conventional means it should enjoy the pain rather then make any kind of confession real or not just to make it stop perhaps the light causes them to grow more human like in a way
If Rose/Thorn/Lumina has taught us anything, its that The Darkness can [corrupt]....but the Light can [purify]. If Thorn, a weapon of Sorrow cursed with Dark Hive magic, that murdered Guardians, could be cleansed...The light of the Traveller should be able to influence the Hive as well.
I totally trust your theory on this. You've gotten good at predicting general story direction in Destiny. I can't forget when you made your "Fallen Game of Thrones" video, and then the next day the Zero Hour mission launched out of nowhere, confirming the basics of your theory! That was really surreal.
This makes sense considering the hive were originally meant to be chosen by the traveler. Once Savathun renounced the darkness, the traveler was free to take them back.
I would have never imagined the possibly of Hive being capable of redemption. Oh the possibilities. If they can regain some level of empathy or perspective, anything is possible!
This!!!! I was talking about this!!! Some do seem reluctant to kill! I see this as a gateway for hive guardians Edit:- actually you might be right byf, the first worm mother was forced to be aligned with the darkness. What if it wasn't inherant? But rather a social construct due to the only know ones having been offspring of the worm Queen. There could be others! I'm immensely excited for the future storyline, we know some light bearing hive are being held prisoner by xivu arath, seasonal rescue missions? Maybe we could free savathun's daughter? How would she react to knowing she has a child?
For some reason, i doubt savathun doesn't know she has a child. Another child, she has at leadt 2 that we've killed already, 1 on a triweekly basis due to the 3week curse.
@@joelrobinson5457 we did restore her memories though. I don't know about guardians not having kids, but more than half of the guardian population definitely can't. I don't think a fetus would survive something that would kill a guardian, even if the guardian gets ressed not long after.
@@joelrobinson5457 i don't recall us restoring her memories of fundament, but she seemed pretty damn shocked when we gave her the information that she'd been lied to back then, so i think she got most everything back by the ebe of the campaign.
Or as you've stated before... Destiny likes symmetry. Maybe darkness requires tithing up in ranks, and therefore the light actually pushes blessings down the ranks, starting with the queen down to her subjects. Either way, great video to get everyone thinking! Love it!
The real question is, why was Immaru, a freaky hive-lookin ghost, there immediately. I think I'd have preferred them to have normal ghosts, honestly, to really up the "oh my god they didn't enslave these ghosts" vibe.
So from the lore i know so far, the hive could have been good but due to the witness and the sword logic influences that was what made them bad, the hive being lied too placed them on the enemy side but after savathun realized what the true motives of the darkness, had a change of heart but it cant be fully taken into face value because shes the god of cunning. I would not mind lucent hive to be allies if they can fully change over. Imo i think the concept is cool
It seems that the light and dark are intrinsically bound into all living things. Bungie is really showing the ways light and dark are similar just as paracausal
Finally the video I’ve been waiting for, they’re really setting up a redemption arch for at least some of the lucent hive but a lot of people don’t/would rather not see it
I think the gift of light to Savathun and the wave of light going through her brood may be indicative of the hive of Savathun's brood returning to a form of neutrality, returning to a weird hybrid of the dark Hive and their previous Krill genus with worms, basically, light bearing Krill with the physiology of modern day Hive, so they can now live for however long they want without having to savagely feed their worm. It's all very interesting to think about in that regard.
Could we potentially see Savathun and her Lucent Brood join the Coalition, similar to Mithrax's House of Light and Caiatl's Cabal Empire? It would be awesome to see Humanity, the Awoken, Eliksni, Cabal, and Hive all fighting against the Witness.
There’s definitely physiological changes happening with light exposure for the hive: the lucent tales card with the “light tumours” indicates that. I need to get the rest of the moths to get the full story!
Not fully through the video yet, but wasn´t sth like this: In its nature the power of darkness cannot be given, it must be taken. On the other hand light must be or is only given. For the darkness aligned Hive this system was implemented for millions of years. Upper Ranks starting by King/Queen are sucking their power from the layers below them. Now the Top layer stopped to suck/ take power but instead emits/gives it (nature of light):) I guess thats why now the lower ranks now feel a negative pressure. And maybe the worms do not care at all which power they feed on, as long as its power.
Light- cooperation, harmony, living in peace. Darkness- kill everything until there is nothing left. I can see that all the destiny factions: guardians and humans, eliksni, cabal and hive will ultimately defeat the darkness. It’s where it’s all pointing to.
two thing: 1 - since the Savathun doesnt need the tithe of destruction to survive, why is her brood still being created with the worm symbiote? the whole arrangement was that the worm symbiotes will keep them immortal as long as they are fed and I am extrapolating that the three hive gods setup this system of breeding with a symbiote and setting up the tithe network to feed their own worms. But in one of your other lore videos about the new strikes I believe it was mentioned that savathun has kept the worm forge going for some reason, so she has made this choice of keeping the tithe network up. 2- as mentioned in the lore here, the light is seemingly applying a negative pressure to the tithe network since the higherups are all lit up and dont need to feed their own worm, the tithe network is just seeping out light as the ones higher up dont use darkness at all including savathun and they are possibly using the light within them to keep the darkness at bay and that pressure is what is leaking light down all the way to the thrall. 3- I know I said two thing and I am going into the third now, but I realised something while writing the rest up, we also encountered a lot of stolen light in the thorne world, stolen grom guardians and kept in jars, whats up with that? Savathun and hive guardians were chosen by ghost lending them the power of light, so that has nothing to do with the jars of light stored in one of the thorne world towers, whats the use of that?
I still wonder. Will Xivu’Arath accept what we give her? Or will she be too devoted to the Witness. Her brother was a failure, her sister a traitor. And who’s to say that to her, negotiation is no better than a sign of weakness?
Even if we show her the truth, she's too desperate to cling to what powers she still has. The Worm God's are becoming angry that the Hive could lose so handily to the Light. There is no doubt that Xivu will steel her emotions and sense of doubt to the bitter end because she does not want to lose. Ultimately she'll be the next Hive God we have to permanently kill. As for the Worm Gods, well, the Scorn seems to turning into the new pawns of the Darkness. No reliance on a code of Sword afterall. And inevitably the Hive will lose their position amongst the Darkness' favor. Though, losing favor won't mean the Hive will straight up just choose the Light once this is all over. They'll just be scattered Hives and broods fighting for supremacy.
Ya Know, This Book Spooked me as a player Cause I Nicknamed My Guardian's Ghost "Spectre" So hearing This Book and the fact a Lucent Hive Ghost is Called "Specter" Was Scary.
The presence of Light in the throne world would have certainly been an adjustment for the Lucent Brood generally. “What is that light? And why is it getting brigh- OH GODS MY EYES!”
I left destiny a long time ago mostly because I got bored of the gameplay but I come here every once in a while because destiny is well written and you make it even more interesting. Honestly you are doing a great job byf because somehow you manage to keep me tied to destiny even though I left. Keep at it 👍
I think it would interesting if a certain group of hive light-bearers defect from the hive but don't necessarily join us, they maybe have their own neutral party since maybe they don't trust the guardians either really. Maybe at some point down the line we ally our selves with some of them but I imagine it wouldn't be a full on alliance like we have with the house of light or caital's forces, more like a temporary thing for some big reason like maybe for Lightfall or The Final Shape
Im not sure theres need to read that Deep into It. -Regular hive has worms, which requiere light not to kill the host. -Lucent hive lightbearers dont have worms, they may have a light based parasite created by their bodies but its not important for this. -Hive lightbearers radiates light like a radiator, and the light based parasite I mentioned before can change hosts potentially infusing It with light (Lucent moths) Thus, since the Lightbearers radiate light, the thralls (which require less power to work) are fed simply by hanging around their "Guardian" Commanders. Basically instead of hive Ecology needing an external source of energy not to die, they are now potentially self suficient. They just dont know It yet, because they are so used to the Sword logic and murder... But this opens Up the posibility of peaceful coexistence. This is also another point that "Light and Darkness can coexist"
Since sava'thun's ghost got away and we now seen who the leader of the pyramids are this could mean the hive and sava'thun could be potential allies in the future, all she wanted to do was keep the traveler safe as she said so herself.
I love your videos, I've never not enjoyed your content and I'm always hooked until the end. As for what you do next I'd like to hear the ideas you wrote down
I still believe Savathun is going to be the Allied leader of the hive. I don't think Xivu Arath will care about being lied to since she always wanted battle and war. Savathun wanted us to kill her so she can remain innocent in whats to come. Her ghost will bring her back when we need her most for her "Redemption arc"
Savathun did say she was learning the power opposite to taking. Simply put if the tithe was paying up the chain power by destruction would it be to naive to assume that light could work opposite. Bomb logic is supposed to be smaller mechanisms of a large collectively stronger whole. Thrall fit that role pretty well.
Awesome video! Love going through these! I don't think that the Hive are being or are needing to be "redeemed", I don't think the Light redeems anything and is rather another kind of tool like the Darkness that doesn't require the destruction of others to function and grow. The Traveler already visited Fundament but didn't have the chance to interact with and share the Light with the Proto-Hive because of the Witness' lies, so the Hive in a way were already able to carry the Light. Now with the Light experiments and acquisition by Savathun, I believe what was already possible is happening again without interference. In this way Light and Darkness are really more like tools, I'm definitely with Ada on that one haha =] A few of my personal thoughts there and there is so much more to figure out and read up on! Great video again!
So I don't want to sound like an idiot but could the travelers "acquiring" of hive troops be seen a a counter to instances of the darkness corrupting guardians. I know the darkness has reached out to tempt the travelers chosen warriors as part of its on going fight with the light. Its a strategic part of war, so could it be that they traveler is also attempting to turn parts of the forces of the darkness? Im sure there is lore out there to prove me wrong but I was just curious. I mean deplete your enemies forces and he has a much more difficult issue of continuing the fight. Not that they darkness really need troops to fight in its wars however
With all the lore that worms are satiated by the light implies that we could harness their power. Our light could give us their power without the blood tithe, giving us access to the power of the hive, and new darkness powers. Could be a crazy full rounding of the hive and worms joining us against the witness. They certainly have room for a vendetta
The negative feedback of light in the tithing process makes sense with the bomb logic.
Instead of tithe being pulled upwards to a single point, it’s being spread outward radially to those around it.
Wait… the Sword logic works up the chain like a big *pyramid* scheme, whereas the Bomb logic spreads outwardly in all direction like some sort of *sphere* 🤔
😮
Darkness/Hive is an MLM confirmed. We gotta get iilluminaightii to cover the hive as the universes mist destructive MLM
*Gasp in Speaker*
This stuff just writes itself sometimes :D
B R U H YOU GOT IT
I like to imagine a servitor-sized ghost wandering its way to saturn to resurrect oryx. Makes me chuckle.
"your ghosts so big" "thanks i feed it well"
How big cause servitors can get bloody huge
@@samcrompton7270 a Sepiks Prime sized ghost
@@fuckinantipope5511 Jesus that would be big
T H I C C B O I
The Witch Queens lore is some of the best in the game by far, personally I'm hoping for more of the Lucent Brood in the future. They have a boat load of story potential.
You should take a step back amd read some books. Calling yhis new stiff garbage is being kind. No set up, no progression. No storytelling. It just ping pongs to events cuz reasons.
They have so much potential and are really interesting I’m excited for more story lines from them
@@morsorcus8152 Destiny lore is well written and awesome, idk wtf you are on about
@@morsorcus8152 ???
@@morsorcus8152 shit take
The Darkness demands a cult-like mentality. Pay heed to your superiors, everything you do belongs to them. The Light works in reverse - your superiors help you to become stronger, more powerful.
It seems as though The Light/The Darkness work differently depending on who/what society uses their powers. Think of The Taken power vs Stasis, or how this reverse tithe works for the Lucent Brood. Because the LB have experience with Guardians, The Light gave them familiar powers - ours.
Darkness and Light are both Neutral forces. What you mean is the Witness / Traveler.
And even then your Logic is flawed in one regard: The Traveler didn't spread the Light to Humans out of kindness. It did so purely to save its own skin.
@@CedricBassman that might not even be true. We still do not know why Humanity was chosen as its first light bearers that we know of. For me there are two possibilities, first it has no where left to run and we are its last chance or second it had been looking for the right place to make its stand. I honestly feel that there is a chance that all 5 species destiny, Hive Vex Eliksni Cabal and Human/Exo/Awoken, will all have light bearers.
@@goodolboston4522I think we were the last resort, but then we became a chance at redemption. We were the only ones who didn’t seek out the vail, didn’t want to take more power. And with that the traveler may have found hope and then wanted to become our guardian as well
Would be interesting to see a story play out with a season about lucent brood defectors and the internal fighting of the coalition, vanguard, and the city to deal with them. Either to take their word and let them into the city walls or cast them out. I could see Caiatl being heavily against it and threatening to break the coalition, but Mithrax and Crow trying to fight for them to be accepted as they see themselves in them. Being part of struggle for survival for humanity and the cabal.
Would love to see how the city reacts to creatures all ways told as monster and nightmares.
@@radicalgremlin6440 if the city reacted as it did for the Eliksni, who have comparatively not been anywhere near as bloodthirsty, then the city would probably implode from outrage.
They'd need a planet
@@twelved4983 yeah the hive are hated. I could see them capturing a hive gaurdian, and just kill it over snd over again.
Europa for the eliksni. Nessus for the cabal. But which one for the hive? Titan?
This just makes me hope that my dream of a new introduction quest during the Final Shape/Lightfall which just has a new light getting introduced to the "resistance" of Human, Cabal, Lucent Brood, Eliskni and Vex all working together against the Darkness, as to send the New Lights off planet it's here taking a job to power some Vex construct with Hive Magic and rebuilding the gate with Elinski and human support
They also need to bring back the planet missions. Have the Lost Sector/Public event mission, then the planet mission will be a step in the New Light Quest.
This would be really hard to pull off, as all of the available expansions would take place *before* the "resistance" was created. It would just confuse any brand new players who would purchase any old expansions, unless Bungie could make some clever and easy-to-understand explanation as to why you're playing through the past.
@@abyss6722 I mean, there are fallen in the tower lol
@@gackolpz that's very different from being greeted by a lucent hive saying "welcome to the resistance" and then going to the moon to kill hashladun.
@@abyss6722 ok but cade is dead, yet we see him in strikes, the VOG shield appears in two raids, (and is canonically the same artifact in both), so why cant we have old missions also "frozen in time"?
Love how Witch Queen lore is literally just taking everything we assumed to know and just throwing it into a meat grinder
Bungie: "Oh, you thought you had a good grasp on Destiny's giant and somewhat confusing lore?"
*Drops the Witch Queen expansion*
Bungie: "Now try to get you head around our game's lore! Bit difficult if some of our most important and well known lore bits ends up with a completely different meaning with only a few additional words! We are as unpredictable as our own game engine/Telesto!"
Maybe it's something people already knew, but I find that Specter lore entry fascinating because there's like... Hive detective? Hive criminal justice system? Please, tell me more, I need Hive crime noir!
Also, the fact that Spectre calls Nabenki looking at him a sign of "potential illness" is just sad.
Light and order lol
They’re not used to positive feedback.
Sherlock hives
Yeah, I find that pretty surreal. Outside of the Hive Gods and some of their closest subordinates, it's hard to see the Hive as anything more than mindless beasts, but they aren't. They have buildings and spaceships, so they must have architects and scientists. They have glyphs which means they can read and write, and they even have a holiday called Eversion Day that celebrates the creation of Oryx's dreadnaught. It would be cool if we could have more neutral encounters with them and learn more about the "mundane" aspects of Hive life.
There's so much I desperately want to know about Hive culture and their day to day lives. Every time I hear Immaru talking on the Throne World it makes me think of like, a bunch of Hive acolytes sitting around in a barracks, playing games and chatting while they wait for deployment.
I have a few ideas:
The lore around Lord Saladin's first years as an Iron Lord. He gets his own lore book about it with this season.
The inclusion of Mithrax, and how that might foreshadow the next season.
The reintroduction of Spider through this year's Guardian Games
The shifting moralities of the Hive Guardians in the Lucent Brood in the Lucent Tales lore book.
And speculation on what the next season may be.
Considering the infinite possibilities, it's plausible that a few clusters of Vex may reach the conclusion that allying with humanity would lead to a timeline where they are not overtaken by Darkness. Guardians are the only paracausal force that could be reasoned with.
@@79bigcat aye i never thought about that vex would be able to survive with our help, but arent they born in darkness?
@@saikopomp no I believe only the sol divisive are affiliated in any way to the darkness however they were the pattern referred in the unveiling book
@@papercamera2989 i see thanks for the clearing this🤙🏽
When embracing the Sword Logic/Darkness, the agency and possibility for the Kril to be other things then the Hive was *Taken*. When the Lucent Brood embraced the Bomb Logic/Light, the possibility for them to things was *Given* back.
It’s important to know that any Hive that had a conscious or sense of decency would’ve swiftly culled from The Hive thanks to the Tithing system, if not corrupted by it.
It’s not unlike in Warhammer Fantasy, where all Skaven are evil, because any Skaven with tendencies for decency are murdered by their kin (usually with a smile on their snouts).
The Sword Logic by it’s own tenets makes little-to-no room for things like compassion, sympathy/empathy, forgiveness, or peaceful coexistence.
Since the Lucent Brood are not strictly tied to the Sword Logic and Tithing, this means that some among them may end up developing those traits. That or any of them that are good-natured will less likely be culled or corrupted.
This doesn’t mean the Lucent Brood are good now, and many of their number still relish murder, domination, torture, and conquest regardless.
BUT
It means it’s possible for some Lucent Brood to reconsider their options.
Honestly I just want to see the Lucent separate from the sword and shield logics, to forge a new one. A new trinity. Sword, Shield, Staff. Staff representing the art of magic. Sword, as the Blade. Shield, as the Wall. Staff, as the Magic. Sword is hunter. Shield is Titan. Staff, is warlock. The three logics. Staff logic, is a balance between sword and shield. Sword is of endless darwinism. Shield is of granting a chance to everything. Staff, would be to allow for there to be a chance, but not everyone can be able to live. Sacrifices must be made, but it's to make sure that the world can continue in a safer way. It's like chess. Not everyone can survive. Sacrifices come, and death is an inevitability. Live to the fullest, and make sure that you make something of yourself. Dont necessarily seek out imperialism and conquest, nor defend everyone with blind faith. Use morality and logic. Heart and Smarts. Protect those who seek to make things just in a moral sense of equality.
Oh how terrible and wonderful it is, to be able to choose one’s own destiny.
@@fumarc4501 Well guardians do make they're own fate, regardless if they were hunan or hive.
Yep, just like with humanity in the Dark Ages and the warlords epoch eventually breaking through that and fixing itself up. Light alone does not reform the mentalities of those who recieve it, they still retain free will, which is still useable for malicious deeds that even contradict the principles of Light. Darkness replaces free will with the Sword Logic and leaves only the deadliest, dominant and most invasive lifeforms, pre-determined to be who they are from the start and fated to serve a single strict purpose (like that of a sword which is made only to cut through and slay) while the Light doesn't explicitly do it, but indirectly promotes the least selfish, more protective and traditionally heroic (those who allow others to grow and develop no matter how weak they are from the start and shape their own fate). When the darkness-enslaved races break free from it and the laws they were biologically forced to abide by, they regain free will and the potential to develop further as a species, changing the mentality along with the social structure, though that potential still needs to be brought into actuality, just like humanity which did.
@@zynet_eseled
While this concept is interesting it is kind of overstretching it, since the idea of "shield logic" doesn't hold up to the lore. Because the Sword came first, and only then the Shield. The Shield is a tool specifically engineered to stop and defeat a Sword, and not the other way around. It is actually the other way around in the universe : the Sword (logic) is a speciality tool engineered for death, conquest, judgement and establishment of superiority. The community sometimes mentions the "Seed logic" which is the process of fostering lifeforms and letting them freely grow and develop, contemplating it. It was meant to be self-sufficient and eternal. Then came the suicidal "Parasite" which is the Darkness that employs the Sword Logic. It engineers lifeforms to exclusively bring conquest and death and depend on it, or to perish otherwise. But where there's no life, there's no death, just like when the host dies, the parasite dies. They find new "hosts" to kill until there's none left, and so they all die too, leaving total death as the one final thing that "exists" in the end. Now, obviously, the purpose of any "sane" parasite by evolutionary standarts is to survive. Which means it needs the host to be alive and trive so that they thrive together. And so it helps the host, resulting in a symbiosis. Applying that "non-suicidal parasite and host symbiosis" logic to the fusion between Light and Darkness which is the key to defeat the Darkness is rather tricky. It's the variation of the "Seed Logic" that subordinates and uses the Sword to its advantage, to strengthen itself, to give power and the ability to judge to the hands of the Light's creations, so that the "brightest" most vitalistic life-affirming remain, and the "darkest" most parasitic and death-affirming fall.
Just like the power of the Light, the power of the Darkness is merely a tool. The Guardians can now wield both, meaning they will either move on to this new fusion of "Logics" and philosophies, or fall to the temptation and lies of the Witness and go for pure Sword Logic. It's an extreme longshot and will most likely not be true, but maybe just maybe we're going to recieve an actual Darkness-enhanced Light to wield that manifests this fusion Logic, near the end of the entire game or in the final DLC. How to tie the Lucent Hive into this is still unclear, but I figure they are going to become the key to obtaining it because they are the only ones to have ever been converted to the Light directly from the Darkness. They just didn't get the chance to play their part to the full yet so we just have to wait (Witch Queen was an interlude chapter that winds up another story arc that will further develop and converge with the main Beyond Light one, just like Forsaken was too a break from the main plotline that continued to advance with Shadowkeep.)
A global physiological change of a species upon receiving the Light isn't without precedent. It is highly implied that the increase to human lifespan after the Traveler arrived had less to do with human advancement in life extension, and was a side effect of the Traveler's presence. And also, there is the immortality of the Awoken to consider as well.
the way I see the little sparks of light in living beings is like a mark the traveler puts on things kind of like how a dog marks its territory like its a way of telling the witness that "I've helped these people I've affected their lives in the way you hate"
Hey Byf? I've a theory for you to look into. So in Immaru's Lucent Tales lore tab, He's getting upset that Human Guardians are killing Hive Ghosts. He then makes a statement that confuses me. He says, "Everyone-Fallen, Vex, even Hive-every last one of 'em knows you don't shoot the medic. But nobody told these jokers apparently." But this confuses me for a couple reasons; Every Race in Sol at this time has at least 2-3 Ghost Kills under their belt,. We have Lore Tabs of Eliksni and Cabal murdering them (The Vex being the exception as they just write them out the Timeline or Drain the Light from them). And he claims HIVE don't kill Ghosts.... But this is blatantly untrue... Which brings me to my theory; Could the Hive Ghosts be being mind controlled with the Ghost Shells they wear? I think it's a possibility that they are, as the Weapons of Sorrow are then implied to soon be used by the Hive, by Savathun, as said Immaru Book. The Weapons of Sorrow include Thorn which Corrupted Rezyl Azzir into Dredgen Yor, and my thought is that The Hive Shells are also imbued with the same Hive Magic that caused his fall... And that the reason Fynch is the only Hive Ghost who is allied with us (as far as we know)... is cause his Shell is Damaged.
I still want to know where the Hive Ghost’s shells came from. Ghost shells in general I suppose, but especially the mass amount of Hive Ghosts that have these shells.
@@progenitor_amborella I can't remember where I read this, I think it's from the collectors edition lore, but I read the Ghosts are altering their own shells to be Hive like to be more readily trusted by their partners.
you might be unto something...
I am 3 months late but we can clearly see Savathun's ghost having hive shell before it ressurected her so your theory doesnt really add up
@@PeriqculosusCZ The theory is that the Hive Ghost Shells are made using the same tech as the Weapons of Sorrow... which have existed for a very long time already... so Immaru having that type of Shell isn't impossible... it just means he had the first version of it... i.e. Theory still holds.
I'm hoping, praying we can see lucent Hive in the crucible. So we could have 12v12 matches on big ass maps
Honestly I think that'd be an awesome game mode. 'Pvp' but it's guardians vs lucent hive on a massive map with various objectives were competing against the hive for. Capture points, CtF, Juggernaut, etc.
@@immortalsoldier1367 That just reignites the “Alright, Elite preferred species” joke but now its “Alright, Hive preferred guardian”
@@wolfikins2777 You make an excellent point. This should be done immediately.
Fuck no they going to spam super’s
@@wolfikins2777 I’d fight so much harder if I had a hive skin under all my gear
Personal theory:
The mention of negative pressure within the hive's system thanks to the light is in line with how the light functions as a whole in the sense that it is one for all vs the darkness's all for one. Powerful light bearers spread their power to other guardians in the form of orbs of power/light slowly making everyone stronger as a whole, a similar system may be employed here as the light hijacked the hives societal ladder. I believe that instead of a physiological change (excluding the lucent moths and obvious exoskeleton/carapace changes) the light has instead not eliminated the blood tithing but reversed it. Making it now a system where if your commander/leader satiates their worm, instead of going up, it goes down. This reduces the Para causal growth of the high ranking hive and instead increases the amount of hive that survive the earlier stages of their lives mainly thrall and acolytes. This grows the overall population of the lucent brood and subsequently means that while the hive in the future may have less high ranking figures in the form ascendant hive such as Alak-hul. The population of standard Knights, Wizards and Acolytes will begin the skyrocket. Just how the dreg is a deformed malnutritional Vandal. The thrall/cursed thrall/Ogres are expendable resources meant to die, that is until the introduction of the light. Through natural selection thrall will begin to move more strategically and think freely in combat since they aren't in a hurry to feed their worms and thus the ones to survive will be ones who use the light to it's full extend by being passive and strategic. This new generation of hive (as seen in human society) will be softer and more willing for peace. While not holding any of the 'hive political power' the older more ascendant members may hold, their sheer numbers will overpower the old hive ideologies and make way for what will most likely we are already seeing; A hive renaissance. Where the throne world may act as a shelter and base of operations for Hive guardians to be welcomed/supported by non-militaristic hive, just as we see non-militaristic Eliksni within the city walls.
A system where tribute by feeding the worm passes down rather than up would lead to total equity (equilibrium), after a point the Lucent Hive would be brought to a common denominator with none standing out, the stronger outright directly giving away their power to the weaker for free, and It's not exactly what Light is about. Light gives opportunity for everyone to develop in power, rather than artificially pump them with it (As shown with the failure of Ghaul). Those who work harder and strengthen their bond with it more, end up standing out, but leading less powerful others as "First among equals" that further help the less powerful look up to them and grow themselves (They essentially become Light-like and spread it, incorporating its philosophy through their hard work, altruistic and heroic acts and just leadership). This is the one-for-all principle. The light orbs are a manifestation of that, but they are only generated as a by-product of light usage, not re-distributed. What that kind of hive would be is all-for-all, which is the same as one-for-one.
hasnt it been said multiple times that the light flows through all things, provided it not be doused in darkness? i imagine the lack of the inherent darkness the hive usually have would allow the more natural light to flow into the lucent brood, let alone the presence of hive lightbearers
As Speaker said, The Light lives in all places, In all things. You can block it, even try to trap it. But the Light will always find its way.
Time for him to be risen and say something like "called it".
It was also revealed that the same is true for the Darkness too. The "2 wolves" metaphore with the wolf that you feed winning describes it well
I love that darkness, associated with it's taking. Takes from the tribute created from all the creatures down pyramid to the top like a pyramid scheme. But with the light the pyramid is the opposite with light being GIVEN down the chain of tribute
Tbh I don’t get why ppl are comparing it to a pyramid scheme when it is one very specific thing that barely resembles it
The thing that still bugs me about this is Stasis. Eramis essentially took the Darkness while we were given the Darkness why aren't we receiving backlash or diminished utility or something of tht nature
not JUST down the chain, in a giant CIRCLE because EVERYONE benefits! The light blesses us with power, we use that power to not just empower humanity but to empower and protect all who embraces the light. including the Traveler. the traveler then blesses us with more light. CIRCLE repeats! The Witness wants to BREAK the cycle!
Glad to hear you're taking the time you need, Byf.
Keep up the great work, friendo!
I think the traveller believes that the only way to win is to unite as many species's as possible, giving savathun the light we didn't lose any light, but we saw it as theft and took her down
Well, she was planning to seal the Traveler in her Throne World which would have lost the light for us for good. She did actually try to rob us of the light.
@@johnromero6315
And the Traveler seemed fine with it.
@@johnromero6315 I think I’m a way, she wasn’t trying to steal the light but protecting the traveler from the witness, right now if Oryx was alive he would see Savathun as a traitor to Sword Logic/Darkness. She in her mind was protecting the traveler to take it to another place.
@enriqueperezarce5485 You're definitely not wrong. I don't think her goal was to steal the light from us, but achieving her goal would have robbed us of the light as an inevitable byproduct.
I also don't think that her motives were as pure as "protecting the Traveler" so much as "keeping the Traveler out of the Witness's hands." It's always been about self-preservation for her.
Redemption in Light for the Hive…was it foreshadowed earlier with Lumina when it was Thorn?
It gives an idea of what Krill design looks like, as opposed to that of the hive. Hive design is jagged. Bony. And dangerous. Violent. If we are to go off of the design of Lumina as a blueprint for possible Krill architecture, it looks to be quite natural. That of forests. Vines. Roots. Society. Connections. And magic. If I could describe all the faction's architectural style would come across as, its these: Eliksni: Scavenger and makeshift. A language of underdogs, and making do with what's available. Not truly sophisticated in most capacities, yet have a reasonable understanding of tech. Krill: Natural. A world of nature, vines, and forests. Taking cues of terra, and life. Vex. Mechanical. Brutalist. Advanced. Robotic. Its not about being truly flamboyant. Its functional to a machine. Yet it prioritizes efficiency. Cabal. Brutalist. Sharp. And focused. Sharp again, with jagged and straight lines. Militaristic and full functional. Nothing meant to embody subtlety. Its large, loud, but it works to the core.
@@zynet_eseled Human tech would be jack of all trades in design and functionality. It works down to it's core, made with only a handful of materials, may use and function with advanced machinery and may sometimes incorporate some natural designs to it. In particular, weapons with wooden stocks.
@@aztumtheknightofwumbo7060 exactly. Humanity tends to take influence from surroundings. Which is why human made weaponry can vary so much in its design language
Huh. Look at that. One of the last things I ever thought would happen in this universe is now unfolding before my eyes.
I had the same 'mind-blown' moment in the same book as they spoke of the lucent moths and how they start growing from their bodies.... creepy
The darkness focuses on a state of simplicity, with one creature above all others, focusing on a singular point for power to collect. Hence the worms are parasitic, as they must be dominant or subservient to the hive, and if they were subservient the hive would have cut them away.
The light focuses on a state of complexity, with many parts in a moving system working together to make the whole stronger than the sum of its parts. Hence a light worm would logically be symbiotic, as to be in the light would have them working with the host to be stronger than either would be apart.
What I would wish for is the Lucent Hive losing their space zombie looks amd molting into something akin to Moths, to keep with the Lucent Moth theme.
I'm still waiting on the reaction of the House of Light from all these events. Can you imagine the fury Mithrax has seeing the Hive of all beings be given the gift of the Light of the Great Machine? And to top it off we are even trying to have some sort of alliance with the defecting Lucent Hive? (hypothetically speaking the defection does begin to happen, just like how the Cabal under Caiatl also have psion defectors)
In a letter he sent to Ikora he seems confused and a bit dissapointed. He asks Ikora why would the Traveller do It
@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 That's it? I was expecting a little more than that.
@@Mate397 i mean Mithrax is very much polite. Besides he and his House are still in the process of joining into the city proper. Dont think hed be unwise to start making claims and loose his tempe
@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 Sure the guy is more stoic but I can't see him not having at least some kind of anger bubbling in him seeing that creatures of darkness get gifted the Light while his people went through so much suffering to prove worthy of such grace.
I dunno if I am crazy or not but I could have almost sword that The Scorn this season started faded yellow and changed hue to purple later in the season. I wonder if that is like a subtlety to the Scorn becoming principally darkness empowered.
I noticed that too! Glad I'm not the only one.
Same here its as if their rejecting fikrul and joining the darkness
Guys I think it's just bungo thinking we should make a new scorn colour
Bungie recolored the Scorn to showcase likely who's in command of them at that given area or moment. Fikrul still leads his Scorn in the Dreaming City while Calus, and Rhulk commanded the Scorn elsewhere.
This is fascinating. I wonder if this alteration of the hive-worm relationship will perhaps provide an out for Hive that want a way out of the Sword Logic, like Nokris did? Maybe we’ll be seeing defectors from the most lowly, cast-out broods of Hive join the Lucent Brood in an attempt to use the Light to escape the need for endless slaughter. The Hive are being divided along the lines of Light and Dark, and a grey area where those like Nokris that want neither inhabit. Sounds familiar to what guardians have experienced.
Reminds me of how semiconductors work - the flow can be seen as either electrons flowing one way, or ‘holes’ flowing the other way (p-type and n-type semiconductors). The Traveller has ‘doped’ the system. Instead of ‘holes’ (emptiness, darkness) flowing one way, now there is light overfilling the holes before they get the chance to move up the tithe hierarchy. ‘Hunger’ is a hole and this retro-flowing light is sating that hunger.
Even before this, I've heard a couple of instances of strange behaviour from the Lucent Brood. Apparently, there was a Lightbearer Acolyte who kept committing suicide repeatedly because the Light felt "wrong." There was also reportedly a Lightbearer Knight who killed a Guardian but spared their Ghost after hesitating to kill it.
So they gave our constant suicidal tendencies back in the tower a canonical reason lmao
Byf, your content is amazing and has added so much to my enjoyment of this excellent game.
That said, if you need to slow things down and look after yourself don't worry about us. We'll wait if you need to take breaks and we'll be here when you get back.
I can't believe that people are saying that the hive will be the new good guys of the story just because they were chosen by the traveler, the light and the dark are not these simple one sided entities of good and evil, which means that even if someone has the light that doesn't mean that they are the "good guys".
Plus the fact that newly born hive have some light in them is not particularly surprising since their literal queen and god has light powers now, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that the light of savathun is reforming everything in the throneworld and everything new that's being born from it since a throneworld is just an extension of an ascendant being's soul.
I dont think they are gonna end up being the bew good guys of the story. Im not sure if this is the same thing or what you mean, but I feel like everything that is happening is leading up to that gigantic conflict in Lightfall, and we are gonna have factions of each race fighting for either side. Caitl and Calus for cabal, Mithrax and Eramis for eliksni, Savathu'un and Xivu Arath for hive, (purely speculation here forward) something vex lead by Ashir Mir and the Sol Divisive for vex, Fikrul and Crow for Scorn. That would follow a pattern that I personally would enjoy a lot.
Funny that playable hive guardians seems more possible day by day. Feels insane and so exiting like it did waaaay back when Foresaken launched. Honestly i feel like this is the start of a Golden Age for d2 with how genuinely amazing the lore is getting season after season. So glad to have you breaking it down for us everytime Byf. Thank you.
I had the thought that at least some of the Hive could become allies for the coming battle, but the idea of redemption makes this whole thing so much more interesting. They are outdoing themselves with the story. The Hive were always exclusively the enemy, but the idea that they could be more than just a simple “enemy of my enemy is my friend.” I feel like a lot of people would have a hard time accepting this because we tend to think pretty black and white generally, but I REALLY hope they take this potential plot point and run with it.
When I heard the outro music I was genuinely concerned that the video would end before that Lucent Witch got crunched. Glad to have seen it through!
You may have covered this already, but the developing relationship between Crow and Amanda Holiday and how it has become complicated now that she knows who he is would be a great topic. I’m hoping Bungie takes this and runs with it. The Sweet Sorrow lore tab from this season is particularly good.
Yeah, I was surprised it wasn’t included in the video about Crow’s guilt a few weeks ago
0:53 impeccable aim
Idk if anyone has mentioned this but the lucent moths I think support this idea. A moth develops from a worm-like creature (caterpillar). Could it be that the darkness was suppressing the natural growth of the worms or that the light transformed them into moths?
I for one, will welcome our new Hive and Fallen guardian friends.
"... and it reads as follows.
DO YOU WANT TO RECIEVE THE MOST POWERFUL TRIALS OF OSIRIS GEAR?!?"
Myelin Games pointed out that there was a Hive Risen who refused to crush a Guardian’s ghost and released it
i clicked this video uncertain of the content given the title, but i was suddenly relieved when i heard byf's intro music play
I wonder if someone like Osiris who had the light can be given the light again by another ghost? Would be cool if Fynch became his new ghost.
I’ve been wondering that about Eris. If she could regain her light but retain her memories by being chosen by a Hive Ghost. Yes, she was drained of her light long ago, but whose to say she can’t be chosen again by a new ghost? A Hive Ghost? It’d certainly be ironic, considering that she is the “Hive’s Bane”, and would rather see the Osmium Dynasty crumble with every member of its lineage. Though that may happen one day, us and Eris may keep the Lucent Hive around if they prove to be trustworthy allies. Eris would certainly be a greater threat to the dark-beholden Hive, wielding light and darkness.
Can't he use vex tech to bring sagira from another dimension/timeline?
Didn't we do the same with saint-14
@@ASIM_JARADAT it's not that easy. The sun dial only worked on mercury and there were some other big limitations
Kinda but no.
You forget (or don’t know) how many things that had to go right so we could save saint-14 and this is after X amount of years Osiris spent trying to save his best mate.
This has been discussed before because the community wanted to bring back cayde
@@garrettviewegh677 Pretty sure eris is a hive human hybreed now so she either needs the tithing to give her light again (through helping any hive guardian allies) or we need to find out how savathun got light. I know that savathun was ment to have light the whole time but consider this. The witness would likely make it so the hive couldnt get chosen by the traveler by removing the sparks in them so its likly that he either planned this (scary) or savathun has a prosess to reignite light in a potental light bearer (could mabey even revive ghosts with some experementing).
The detail that the worm is satiated is very interesting. I always considered the worms to be the ghosts of hive.
They are of the worm gods as the ghosts are of the traveler. The implication that they could abandon the darkness has uncomfortable implications for our ghosts.
But we are the ultimate instruments of death. It references that several times in-game throughout D2. We as light-bearers would easily feed the worms if we had them. So in theory, the Hive worm might be more satiated than ever.
Possibly, but if the Light is the pinnacle of what satiates them, what happens when they want more? Savathûn resorted to cursing the Dreaming City and hunting the Distributary because her worm sas becoming unsatisfied with the usual level of tribute. If they become unsatisifed with a steady stream of Light, the worms could still devour the Hive if they don't turn to something else
Some how, some way, this’ll lead to a slippery slope of someone getting a Lucent Hive Hunter GF in the Lightfall expansion
One of the most important ideas mentioned by the late and great Speaker is that the lights resides in all things.
Maybe Xivu reacts with understanding and forgives the Witness. If she is a true disciple, she would see why the Witness tricked them. If that happens we're in for a lot of trouble. I could see Sav fighting Xivu. A hive light vs dark
The line about "negative ptessure" made me think it's likely that the Light spread from Savathun downward to her brood in an inverted mirror of how the tithe system sent the energy of death upward through the heirarchy.
I love the idea of allying ourselves with all our enemies to take down the witness and the forces of the taken/scorn, our mirrored images.
Couple things:
1) It's funny how just a little over 2 years ago, we were discussing how Savathun was attempting to capture the Distributary and generating her "Murder Battery". Now she's just like, "Fuck it. I'll kill myself and roll the dice."
2) Since we know from the lore that Nokris (the Hive Necromancer) had been under her tutelage, I wonder if it was him who gave her the idea of professing herself to the light and allowing herself to be killed.
One other personal thing from my end. While I do think the concept of the Lucent Hive is an interesting one, and poses many opportunities for the story going forward... I'm also somewhat hesitant of the idea as well. I think it's mainly rooted in what could be the potential loss of what's arguably the best enemy faction in the game. While that's not to say that you still wouldn't have the Hive Proper to fight, I just don't want to see us discarding another dedicated foe to the box of Neutral or - potentially - Friendly.
I personally doubt Xivu Arath will become neutral or potentially friendly.
does that mean possibly Norkis could of been possibly revived too
@@fysy9989 I would imagine so as well. I just hope Bungie has plans for the future when it comes to enemy factions. From the looks of it, they're basically bringing every major race (Humanity, Awoken, Fallen, Cabal, and Hive) together, or along similar goals, to fight back The Witness. Once the dust clears on whatever becomes of that, who's the next antagonist? Erimus again? Calus?
@@biggydx possibly the vex as well, given their tendency to throw minds at whatever problem they face and see what sticks.
Considering Xivu Arath, I really don’t think we have to worry about the Hive becoming “friendly.” She’s the most powerful being we’ll have ever faced, likely, because we’ll be trying to fight the god of war… in a war.
It might also suggest that the hive are developing at least some sort of self preservation given the fact that if the thrall was being tortured by conventional means it should enjoy the pain rather then make any kind of confession real or not just to make it stop perhaps the light causes them to grow more human like in a way
If Rose/Thorn/Lumina has taught us anything, its that The Darkness can [corrupt]....but the Light can [purify].
If Thorn, a weapon of Sorrow cursed with Dark Hive magic, that murdered Guardians, could be cleansed...The light of the Traveller should be able to influence the Hive as well.
I’m getting some Speaker for the Dead vibes from this lore. Love the content!
I totally trust your theory on this. You've gotten good at predicting general story direction in Destiny. I can't forget when you made your "Fallen Game of Thrones" video, and then the next day the Zero Hour mission launched out of nowhere, confirming the basics of your theory! That was really surreal.
This makes sense considering the hive were originally meant to be chosen by the traveler. Once Savathun renounced the darkness, the traveler was free to take them back.
I would have never imagined the possibly of Hive being capable of redemption. Oh the possibilities. If they can regain some level of empathy or perspective, anything is possible!
“The Light lives in all places. In all things. You can block it; even try to trap it. But the Light will find its way”
The Speaker
This!!!!
I was talking about this!!!
Some do seem reluctant to kill! I see this as a gateway for hive guardians
Edit:- actually you might be right byf, the first worm mother was forced to be aligned with the darkness. What if it wasn't inherant? But rather a social construct due to the only know ones having been offspring of the worm Queen. There could be others!
I'm immensely excited for the future storyline, we know some light bearing hive are being held prisoner by xivu arath, seasonal rescue missions?
Maybe we could free savathun's daughter? How would she react to knowing she has a child?
For some reason, i doubt savathun doesn't know she has a child. Another child, she has at leadt 2 that we've killed already, 1 on a triweekly basis due to the 3week curse.
@@Santisima_Trinidad but she forgot everything when she came back, and it's possible that guardians can't have kids
@@joelrobinson5457 we did restore her memories though. I don't know about guardians not having kids, but more than half of the guardian population definitely can't. I don't think a fetus would survive something that would kill a guardian, even if the guardian gets ressed not long after.
@@Santisima_Trinidad we only restored her memory of the events we witnessed, and that's assuming the guardian dosen't take a 9 month vacation
@@joelrobinson5457 i don't recall us restoring her memories of fundament, but she seemed pretty damn shocked when we gave her the information that she'd been lied to back then, so i think she got most everything back by the ebe of the campaign.
Or as you've stated before... Destiny likes symmetry. Maybe darkness requires tithing up in ranks, and therefore the light actually pushes blessings down the ranks, starting with the queen down to her subjects. Either way, great video to get everyone thinking! Love it!
To paraphrase Praedyth, "That's the thing about Light. You never know where it will shine..."
The real question is, why was Immaru, a freaky hive-lookin ghost, there immediately. I think I'd have preferred them to have normal ghosts, honestly, to really up the "oh my god they didn't enslave these ghosts" vibe.
I vaguely remember a passage that alluded to tower-aligned hive, but I can’t remember where I read it.
So from the lore i know so far, the hive could have been good but due to the witness and the sword logic influences that was what made them bad, the hive being lied too placed them on the enemy side but after savathun realized what the true motives of the darkness, had a change of heart but it cant be fully taken into face value because shes the god of cunning. I would not mind lucent hive to be allies if they can fully change over.
Imo i think the concept is cool
It seems that the light and dark are intrinsically bound into all living things. Bungie is really showing the ways light and dark are similar just as paracausal
The aspects of this potential evolution of Light is pretty damn crazy.
Finally the video I’ve been waiting for, they’re really setting up a redemption arch for at least some of the lucent hive but a lot of people don’t/would rather not see it
I think the gift of light to Savathun and the wave of light going through her brood may be indicative of the hive of Savathun's brood returning to a form of neutrality, returning to a weird hybrid of the dark Hive and their previous Krill genus with worms, basically, light bearing Krill with the physiology of modern day Hive, so they can now live for however long they want without having to savagely feed their worm. It's all very interesting to think about in that regard.
The dark takes, but the light gives.
Could we potentially see Savathun and her Lucent Brood join the Coalition, similar to Mithrax's House of Light and Caiatl's Cabal Empire? It would be awesome to see Humanity, the Awoken, Eliksni, Cabal, and Hive all fighting against the Witness.
There’s definitely physiological changes happening with light exposure for the hive: the lucent tales card with the “light tumours” indicates that. I need to get the rest of the moths to get the full story!
Not fully through the video yet, but wasn´t sth like this: In its nature the power of darkness cannot be given, it must be taken. On the other hand light must be or is only given. For the darkness aligned Hive this system was implemented for millions of years. Upper Ranks starting by King/Queen are sucking their power from the layers below them. Now the Top layer stopped to suck/ take power but instead emits/gives it (nature of light):) I guess thats why now the lower ranks now feel a negative pressure.
And maybe the worms do not care at all which power they feed on, as long as its power.
I love how byf reads 2 friggin lines in a lore book and makes a 20 minute video out of it
Light- cooperation, harmony, living in peace.
Darkness- kill everything until there is nothing left.
I can see that all the destiny factions: guardians and humans, eliksni, cabal and hive will ultimately defeat the darkness. It’s where it’s all pointing to.
It's really just two neutral forces commanded by two entities. The Witness is pure evil, and the Vanguard, humanity, and guardians are good.
two thing:
1 - since the Savathun doesnt need the tithe of destruction to survive, why is her brood still being created with the worm symbiote? the whole arrangement was that the worm symbiotes will keep them immortal as long as they are fed and I am extrapolating that the three hive gods setup this system of breeding with a symbiote and setting up the tithe network to feed their own worms. But in one of your other lore videos about the new strikes I believe it was mentioned that savathun has kept the worm forge going for some reason, so she has made this choice of keeping the tithe network up.
2- as mentioned in the lore here, the light is seemingly applying a negative pressure to the tithe network since the higherups are all lit up and dont need to feed their own worm, the tithe network is just seeping out light as the ones higher up dont use darkness at all including savathun and they are possibly using the light within them to keep the darkness at bay and that pressure is what is leaking light down all the way to the thrall.
3- I know I said two thing and I am going into the third now, but I realised something while writing the rest up, we also encountered a lot of stolen light in the thorne world, stolen grom guardians and kept in jars, whats up with that? Savathun and hive guardians were chosen by ghost lending them the power of light, so that has nothing to do with the jars of light stored in one of the thorne world towers, whats the use of that?
"An incredible failure that has been handed to the witness" is a very eloquent way of saying "The witness took an L"
I love this game.
With the new changes and superb lore, I’m psyched up about this new season coming up!
You absolutely need to take time for yourself, so that you stay on the up&up and we can enjoy your work for a longer time.
this lore leaves me more convinced than ever that we will end up reviving oryx,
I still wonder. Will Xivu’Arath accept what we give her? Or will she be too devoted to the Witness.
Her brother was a failure, her sister a traitor.
And who’s to say that to her, negotiation is no better than a sign of weakness?
Even if we show her the truth, she's too desperate to cling to what powers she still has. The Worm God's are becoming angry that the Hive could lose so handily to the Light. There is no doubt that Xivu will steel her emotions and sense of doubt to the bitter end because she does not want to lose. Ultimately she'll be the next Hive God we have to permanently kill. As for the Worm Gods, well, the Scorn seems to turning into the new pawns of the Darkness. No reliance on a code of Sword afterall. And inevitably the Hive will lose their position amongst the Darkness' favor.
Though, losing favor won't mean the Hive will straight up just choose the Light once this is all over. They'll just be scattered Hives and broods fighting for supremacy.
Ya Know, This Book Spooked me as a player Cause I Nicknamed My Guardian's Ghost "Spectre" So hearing This Book and the fact a Lucent Hive Ghost is Called "Specter" Was Scary.
They didn't even take the light they were blessed like the rest of us.
The presence of Light in the throne world would have certainly been an adjustment for the Lucent Brood generally.
“What is that light? And why is it getting brigh- OH GODS MY EYES!”
I left destiny a long time ago mostly because I got bored of the gameplay but I come here every once in a while because destiny is well written and you make it even more interesting. Honestly you are doing a great job byf because somehow you manage to keep me tied to destiny even though I left. Keep at it 👍
I think it would interesting if a certain group of hive light-bearers defect from the hive but don't necessarily join us, they maybe have their own neutral party since maybe they don't trust the guardians either really. Maybe at some point down the line we ally our selves with some of them but I imagine it wouldn't be a full on alliance like we have with the house of light or caital's forces, more like a temporary thing for some big reason like maybe for Lightfall or The Final Shape
Im not sure theres need to read that Deep into It.
-Regular hive has worms, which requiere light not to kill the host.
-Lucent hive lightbearers dont have worms, they may have a light based parasite created by their bodies but its not important for this.
-Hive lightbearers radiates light like a radiator, and the light based parasite I mentioned before can change hosts potentially infusing It with light (Lucent moths)
Thus, since the Lightbearers radiate light, the thralls (which require less power to work) are fed simply by hanging around their "Guardian" Commanders.
Basically instead of hive Ecology needing an external source of energy not to die, they are now potentially self suficient. They just dont know It yet, because they are so used to the Sword logic and murder... But this opens Up the posibility of peaceful coexistence.
This is also another point that "Light and Darkness can coexist"
Since sava'thun's ghost got away and we now seen who the leader of the pyramids are this could mean the hive and sava'thun could be potential allies in the future, all she wanted to do was keep the traveler safe as she said so herself.
As always Lore daddy does it again.. appreciate you byf ❤️
I love your videos, I've never not enjoyed your content and I'm always hooked until the end. As for what you do next I'd like to hear the ideas you wrote down
I still believe Savathun is going to be the Allied leader of the hive. I don't think Xivu Arath will care about being lied to since she always wanted battle and war. Savathun wanted us to kill her so she can remain innocent in whats to come. Her ghost will bring her back when we need her most for her "Redemption arc"
“The light lives in all things.” -The Speaker
Savathun did say she was learning the power opposite to taking. Simply put if the tithe was paying up the chain power by destruction would it be to naive to assume that light could work opposite. Bomb logic is supposed to be smaller mechanisms of a large collectively stronger whole. Thrall fit that role pretty well.
So cool to have a Hypothesis seemingly ratified as possible. Worms feasting on Light or Dark DIRECTLY. Mmmm.
This is the twist I've been looking forward to.
Finally everyone is starting to understand the Hive even better.
Light gives and dark takes, but the system of tithing remains.
The power is coming back down the ladder.
Awesome video! Love going through these! I don't think that the Hive are being or are needing to be "redeemed", I don't think the Light redeems anything and is rather another kind of tool like the Darkness that doesn't require the destruction of others to function and grow. The Traveler already visited Fundament but didn't have the chance to interact with and share the Light with the Proto-Hive because of the Witness' lies, so the Hive in a way were already able to carry the Light. Now with the Light experiments and acquisition by Savathun, I believe what was already possible is happening again without interference. In this way Light and Darkness are really more like tools, I'm definitely with Ada on that one haha =]
A few of my personal thoughts there and there is so much more to figure out and read up on! Great video again!
I prefer the lore and byf’s narrative than I do playing the game.
So I don't want to sound like an idiot but could the travelers "acquiring" of hive troops be seen a a counter to instances of the darkness corrupting guardians. I know the darkness has reached out to tempt the travelers chosen warriors as part of its on going fight with the light. Its a strategic part of war, so could it be that they traveler is also attempting to turn parts of the forces of the darkness? Im sure there is lore out there to prove me wrong but I was just curious.
I mean deplete your enemies forces and he has a much more difficult issue of continuing the fight. Not that they darkness really need troops to fight in its wars however
With all the lore that worms are satiated by the light implies that we could harness their power. Our light could give us their power without the blood tithe, giving us access to the power of the hive, and new darkness powers. Could be a crazy full rounding of the hive and worms joining us against the witness. They certainly have room for a vendetta