Destiny 2 Lore - What are the Lucent Moths? An extension of Savathun or something else?
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- Опубліковано 24 вер 2023
- Destiny 2's Lore and Story now finally tells us more about the Lucent Moths from Witch Queen. There's some old Destiny 1 Lore on the Moths in Oryx's Dreadnought, but they might not be the same as Savathun's Moths. More importantly, these moths seem to actively assist the Hive, and can actively assist us, through some strange rituals and an offer of symbiosis.
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I always thought the Lucent Moths were like a metaphor for how Savathun sees the Traveller. It empowers the closest thing it feels can defend it, moves on to another if they are defeated, and only attacks if no one else can help. Not out of benevolence but survival.
This sounds exactly what it seems to be.
Wow, never made that connection before
That's the conclusion I've come to
With everything that we've seen it makes the most sense
I always thought there were moths cause y’know, savathicc is a moth
And when they charge towards you and explode, killing themselves and you? Where is ya metaphor there?
Maybe Savathun tried to steal the Traveller so that the Moths would have Lämp.
I was searching for this. Edit: as lightbearers, we are lämps too. The moths love us do much they can't help it
it's so they... stop... bugging her.
Plot of Witch Queen badly explained: A moth tries to steal a giant lightbulb
I love lamp
Lämp?
fun fact: the Hive were going to be based on moths originally instead of just being bug skeleton things. the worms were based on something that infects real moths, and them chasing the Traveler (big light thing) all over the cosmos was going to be a moth behavior, basically
moth activity
I kinda prefer the designs we got instead, with how iconic the hive have become. That said I'm also a massive fan of moths, so the more moth exotics they give us the better-
big light thing
So…..in other words…..LAMP
@@imbadatgamesree I'm a very eloquent commenter, thanks for noticing 😂
The section about lucent moths being essentially isolated light cysts made me think about a possible origin for ghosts. What if they’re the equivalent, little pockets of darkness expelled by the traveler as it was infected by some sort of darkness attack during the collapse. The ghost isn’t just a creature of the light, but also dark. Would explain why they can actually talk unlike the traveler, can remember, and have personality, all things that the light alone cannot do. Also would explain how the witness can possess ghosts by using their darkness connections.
Ok now spinfoil hat is going on. What if savathun did this on purpose, infecting the traveler with a particular darkness attack that she knew the traveler would survive, expelling the extra darkness as ghosts for her later plans. She could have experimented on a shard of the traveler or some other light artifact to find out how it worked. Either way, this both tricks the witness in seeing the traveler disabled, in combination with her hiding the veil, and it creates ghosts to add to her ultimate betrayal of the witness and her eventually becoming lucent and getting rezzed by one.
Thats a far fetch but I see where you are going with that.
On paper its logical but in retrospect I'd say its a dead end, there just isnt enough to back up and justify what would otherwise be a separated blob of both Light and Dark tainting each other before a proper bond could be made, leading to decay
When a worm goes through metamorphosis, a moth comes out of the cocoon, which is the symbolism I always assumed they were going for with the Hive being reborn under the light. But now I think there's more layers to it.
Worms are linked to darkness, they burrow inside the body and there is only one.
Moths are linked to light, they burst out of the body and there are many.
It's a metaphor for the nature of light and dark, in Hive body-horror terms. So cool.
The fact that Arc light is the primary makeup of most of the moths makes me consider the rabbit hole of what the energies of light and darkness truly are, especially since these moths are linked to "dying souls."
Strand may be the river of souls, and Arc might just be the ground holding the river like a vessel.
all i want is for those light-induced biological changes going on with the lucent hive they mentioned in that lore entry to turn savathun and her brood into fluffy moth people.
Same. loved moth people ever since the luminoth from metroid prime 2.
So you're saying Savathicc... but fluffy. Based on some moth girl designs I've seen floating around, I like this idea.
Yes I want more moth mommies
The Dreadnought isnt the only place in D1 to have moths, as i think the crucible map Cauldron has them floating around the pond with a circular object in the ceiling, & i feel like they were definitely in Hive sections around the moon
Warlock: Oryx‘s Weapons of Sorrow
Hunter: Savathun‘s moths
Titan: Xivu Arath‘s ???
Beetle? Trying to guess what her bug theme could be
They aren't Oryx's weapons of sorrow. The weapons of sorrow are all explicitly man made.
@@vorpalweapon4814It's less about the maker being human and more about human design principles combined with Hive magic. That's why some Hive were able to successfully replicate Thorn under Enkar.
@@chaotixthefox I misinterpreted that, thanks for correcting.
The Cauldron crucible map seems to have moths in it, it's even referred to as "Mothball" which is how the moth grenades are described in the Mothkeeper's Wraps exotic perk description
However, they don't seem to be Light infused
The part that I'm most interested in is how the moths are able to shield and protect otherwise non-lightbearing hive. It makes me wonder if there is a way for us to create such "light sharers". Could we make a gadget that we could put a few orbs of power into that would then shield or empower our non-guardian allies?
I like that, maybe we could get a side lore explanation of how humanity engineers a machine or ghostlike “protect-a-pal” drone function similar to the moths using light where it’s needed in order to protect the remaining non-guardian humans in the chaos that’s unfolding during the final shape
@@kinglarry3727 that was something clovis discussed with osiris
Guardians totally can do that, such as Shaw Han sharing golden gun power with a bunch of redjacks, the final shape teaser trailer had Mithrax and Caiatl in a well, I’m sure there’s a bunch of those cases of light being shared with regular life forms. Or we can just use the moths like with the hunter exotic, don’t even need to invent our own way of doing it
Pretty sure the light is in all things means that everyone can benefit from it, and guardians just have an infinite amount of it. Makes me wonder if there is a hospital consisting of a bunch of solar warlocks with wells and healing rifts for lightless humans
Give mithrax blade dance
I’m curious if any of the Lucent Moths are capable of being infused with other energies. With the Hunter exotic, they can infuse Arc Light for offense and Void Light for defense. Would be cool to see how Warlocks and Titans could manipulate them.
hoping we could get a radiant solar moth
@@Seren_Moth We get a Solar bird for Final Shape.
"You attached lucent moths to your knuckles?!"
"I can do an explody punch with it"
"It'll blow your arm off!!"
"Plus whatever got punched" *taps side of head*
*head blows off*
ah yes, typical titan behaviour.
Could you do a video on tormentors? We know their based off Nezarec but that’s it. We don’t know what exactly they are. We know Subjugators are based off Rhulk or perhaps are resurrected Lubreans. We know about Lubraee
But what about tormentors?
Also… why do tormentors sound like fallen/Eiliskni captains?
Perhaps Tormentors were Nezarec's species before he became a God of Nightmares.
I think tormentors and Nezarec are also a similar race to what Psions were before being taken into the Cabal. A video on this whole relationship would be great.
Im 90% sure it was said in the first mission of lightfall that it was a cloning experiment with calus and the witness.
Considering the dialogue that happens after our first contact with the Tormentors, likely they are (lesser) clones of Nezarec.
Wasn't nezerac a god of the psions? I also thought the tormentors were generic clones of him as well
I like that they made the Loyal Moths and independent perk to everything else on Ex Diris, meaning that perk could appear on any other weapons in the future. They could have just tied it into Ex Diris' Intrinsic or Exotic perks but chose instead to separate it. Fantastic. To me it means they're prepared to add more Loyal Moths to our kit, and I'm all for more exotic synergies on my Hunter.
I love that they're finally giving Hunters something equivalent to Necrotic Grips for Warlock, and it makes me hope we we more moth weapons to go with it. But it also tells me there's a good chance they have something in mind for Titan as well, wnd it makes me excited to see what they might think up.
Fun Fact: Ubartu-Ana is a wizard you can find (and murder) ingame. He guards one of the Lucent moths you need to unlock the Lucent Tales lore book.
Another reason the moths consider the Hive hosts and not homes is their behavior. We see in both of the Lucent Tales lore entries featured in this video that, despite the awesome power Hive Ghosts bestow upon their guardians, the Hive still have no respect for them. They're suspected as spies or simply unimportant.
It's not unlikely the moths are receiving the same treatment, if not worse (another lore entry specifically states Savathun has forbidden the destruction of Hive Ghosts) because they are not in such a scarce supply. It's easy to imagine a hive crushing a moth out of disgust or suspicion right after it hatches from their skin. This might be why so many flocked to the dying ogre; a source of light for their symbiosis but the host is too weak to pose a threat.
I recall seeing moths in the corridors of the Dreadnaught, especially in the areas with worms worming
This immediately reminded me of the D2 Strike: Savathun's Song - and how all the stolen light void crystals were swarming with moths.
I think the prime example for psyche swap is Osiris and Savathun. I may not know if Osiris was fully conscious during his possession but Savathun definitely was able to swap her psyche with him for at least a brief Period
1:11 I vaguely remember seeing moths associated with the Hive in either the Cosmodrome or in the Hellmouth back in D1.
There are some moths in the Hellmouth. They’re a bit out of the way, but I definitely remember seeing them around.
Ontoformic is definitely not a word but it does make sense if you look at the base word ontological. Ontological: relating to the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being. which could mean that Ontoformic is the nature of the being forming and determining the reality surrounding it. As I am therefore the world is. Aiat!
That makes so much sense now
BYF, I've commented this to you years ago. In D1, the back of the Titans "crest of alpha lupi," when equipped with a certain shader, showed what looks like savathun in her moth form. Not that you'd read all comments because you get thousands, but I thought I'd try .
I always thought the moths came from dead ghosts as well. In ghosts of the deep dungeon when you are doing your catalyst run. When you go into the area where the first lore tab is, it is absolutely packed with moths, when you get to the end there is a pile of dead ghosts in the floor with moths floating around them. Maybe thats why they have a consciousness? And why they feel more at home with us?
Videos like this are my favorite, nothing directly pertinent to the main story, just a fun dive into a seemingly random oddity of destiny lore.
It looks like the tithe system is inverted and instead of kicking up to Savathun, rather it kicks light down the ladder but makes sense that their physiology is changing due to the introduction of the light. On a side note the moths coming from the hives bodies and their relation to dead bodies reminds me of the og scorn Fikrul calling guardians dead things. Makes sense the gloves the hunters wear allows them and binding the dead souls to the guardians.
The wraps with ExDiris are a solid combo, all the moths are solid when you have three grenades with the bonus grapple grenade being converted into a third pair of moths. The void ones give 50% overshield you can throw them at your team to give them overshields, like mini versions of how they symbiotically merge with hive.
"Thralls don't partner with ghosts" really caught my attention on this reading. I wonder if there is something specific preventing ghosts from partnering with thralls, ogres, and shriekers.
Something about consciousness or willpower maybe, which is interesting since we're now seen l seeing those qualities as in the domain of Darkness
Thralls are too dinky, just a little guy
Shriekers are also allegedly not alive, they are a construct made from hive Magic that functions as an eye from the Ascendant plane to reality (also quite conveniently as a mobile turret).
I’m pretty sure shriekers aren’t alive, basically just automated turrets
It’s a way to show the hive have been reborn, like a caterpillar wrapping itself up in a cocoon and then emerging later as a moth.
That and I’m pretty sure the hive view wings as a mark of divinity, only oryx and savathun (and presumably xivu arath) have wings and they’re hive gods.
Not sure when you started doing it, but I appreciate you blurring out the lines except for the ones you're reading, as I couldn't help but read ahead! Good stuff as always
That intro gag was the BEST possible way to open the video.
Light is about giving, selflessness if Savathun truly sees herself as a mother to her brood, she is giving the light to all of them, using the connection they already had with their tithing network.
Answering questions I didn’t realize I had. Thank you sir 🤝
I didn't expect to get a lore video about the moths. A welcomed surprise. Plus, love that edit at the beginning. Hate those blasted Light bugs.
thank you for making this video! i love the moths and this was something i had only partially considered
Hello Byf sir, this kinda gives me the whole "darkness being creating the light" vibes. How it looks like The Veil has, or can, almost "bud" or create a Traveler, when you see the image of the 2 connected (or as the "one" being). But i always think back to the lore about the Hives' enemy having "bait stars" and remembering specifically rhe plural, i always assumed there could be multiple travelers.
Anyway, point is i like the thought of the hive budding off light moths, akin to the veil budding off a traveler.
Great video as always.
Halfway through the video I had a thought around the moths as the Spren in Brendan Sandersons Stormlight Archive. (Dont want to say more in fear of spoiling the book for someone, but if you know, you know).
On a different note, it would make sense that the light moths have more autonomy than the dark moths, as the light is about life and creation. It would make sense that they are "more" just like the travelers beam creting life on a "lifeless" darkness pyramid
The lucent tales book was so strange for me, especially specter. It was just interesting to get an inside look on the hive from someone that isn't a krill
To answer the question:
They are annoying little insects that screw up my solo flawless run of Ghosts of the Deep
Fun entomology fact:
.
Arthropod immune systems build walls around foreign substances in their bodies. Idk if they push them out or metabolize them but they do form micro-cysts to deal with them.
.
If I remember correctly, fungus can burst through those barriers and metabolize their chiton cause it’s a sugar derivative fungi also use for their cell walls.
Dick move mushrooms, thats not your exo skeleton to eat.
I always wanted to learn more about the whole physiology of the Hive, more than the other races/species in the game. They just seem so interesting.
That's one of the coolest gear lore tabs ever
the @datto callback at 1:46 got me smiling:)
If memory serves you can find hive moths on the moon. In chambers going down into the moon, namely the big room that had 3 locks on it, you could find a few moths fluttering around a hanging light in there. They were in other areas too but very sparce
Ayo byf I have a question that me and my friends are pretty split on:
When using stasis and strand, are abilities like rifts and barricades (which we know are made of light), still made of light? do guardians use light and darkness at the same time? Or when we use darkness subclasses are the class abilities darkness-based?
good question!
I would say still light based since we can use both
I think they are mixed as for Warlock rifts they are described as "Conjure a well of power", & in Beyond Light "Orbs of Light" were changed to "Orbs of Power" instead. Can also be said for the leveling system, it's called Power Level & not Light Level anymore, although for Void Titans that can make a void barricade it's clearly Light based
Probably she hoped for the moths to be A variant of ghosts initially
Best Byf intro in history
Interesting thought on the moths:
So we know that the witness deceived the hive into choosing the deep as the traveller were going to choose them right?
What if it's not the hive body itself that rejects the light, but a reaction/byproduct of the worm specifically? If regular moths are found in a place of death on the Dreadnaught, perhaps it's a form of the hive works without a host instead of the 'worm god' forms we know of, a form that can do very little without the violence of a host.
By that, these 'light moths' could be created by the light reacting specifically with the worms now they don't need to tithe, a byproduct of darkness feeding off light?
Okay I cracked at hearing who I thought was Barb shouting "MOTH."
I mean, if the Light is in all things, and Light was being hoarded in the Cellar, maybe “Soul” is just a metaphor. If Soul=Light, they’re basically formed through the same process of Light being stored in and around Hive bodies.
Rare blue quality Datto reference well played byf
Liking the video based on the intro alone. 10/10.
15 seconds in and I’m already enjoying this XD
I would love to see an ogre boss that would spew out moths from its back as a mechanic or something
The lucent moths abandon their host when they get low on health. When things get rough. Just like the Traveler did in the past.
20:00 Plus the worm being turned into a gun. Different form still existing.
I now got an image/video of IHE watching byf mention moths and moth-people and then losing his mind
1:44 Byf used to watch Datto's D1 Xür videos.
Some hunter after being atomized by a light moth.
"I shall adopt you and your entire flock."
Hunter + Moths + Glaives = a Hunter welding a Insect Glaive From Monster Hunter.
I found it really funny and happy about all these small coincidences comes into a reference to another game.
(^^)
Lol😂😂😂 I was not ready for the moth cry 😂😂😂 nice
I hope titans and warlocks get a moth exotic. I'm a hunter main and love the gauntlets, would be cool to see a fire team of guardians with moths protecting and attacking for them.
You know I just realized that with all the moths and Savathun having the moth-like appearance it further enforces that strand was supposed to come with Witch Queen. She is the moth drawn to the flame (the light) but is caught in the spiders silk (strand). I’m highly curious if that was an analogy meant for the two.
Just remember, Bungie loves their word games and are deceptive. Strand, as we got it, wasn't built for Witch Queen. But we know for certain that the original plan to cap off Destiny's saga with Beyond Light, Witch Queen, then Lightfall was definitely going to have a new Darkness subclass per DLC, just going off of basic pattern recognition. Somewhere along the lines that plan changed, had to get stretched out and filler content injected in to buy more development time, and what would have been the subclass for WQ ended up getting tweaked, retooled, and stuffed into the filler DLC for whatever reasons as Strand. Time will tell if we get the speculated third subclass in Final Shape though.
@@trashjashthey could be saving the 3rd darkness subclass for the raid like you have to learn the 3rd darkness subclass to be able to face the witness again since maybe you were severely weakened but I'm not gonna get my expectations too high
Mothra > Moth > cocoon> Worm < wyrm < dragon < ahamkara < Godzilla
Mothra vs Godzilla is now D2 cannon
Leaving a like because moth lore!
Both Hive leaders wings remind me of Moths, however the Moths might be like the Travelers ghosts, they come from the Host but they are each their own "creature"(their own thoughts, emotions, preference etc) and have some choice
I'd kill to see some art of a Hunter with thier hands outstretched then carried off into the sunset by moths.
Makes sense, Savathun's moth aesthetic. Moths are drawn to THE LIGHT
That intro was killing me☠️☠️☠️ everybody gets one moth
I remember when I 1st played Witch Queen and saw a moth flying towards me. I thought the moths were like the orbs of power so I ran to it and blew up
Imagine if the moths of Oryx's Dreadnaught are the tithes of the fallen Hive, a failsafe for greater powers repelled by the notion of failure to the point of remaining to be claimed by those who might be more deserving.
Man I miss these side story ponderings. So much big picture stuff now that we are almost done with 10 years
I thought the moths were like an evolution or a separation of hive worms, kinda like caterpillar to butterfly, metamorphosis by light into "moths"
Byf can you give us the lore on baboons and bees and weasels?
Because even bound and dying, souls still have power
Imo, the way that the moths accepted, instead of just the grenade, the moths should have been prevalent in all the arc abilities: killing targets with empowered melee can produce the moths, dashing produces a damage moth if enemies are more than allies, and vice versa, and the pole ult just the pole being covered in moths and them disbursing to allies and enemies. We have the pyrogale,and nighthawk exotics that effect ults, this don't seem out of place.
MOTHS IN YOUR SKIN MOTHS IN YOUR SKIN MOTHS IN YOUR SKIN MOTHS IN YOUR SKIN
"MOOTHH" same buddy, same.
Sounds like the moths are the hive version of a ghost like a early prototype
ITS THE MOTHMAN!!
They could be arc souls savthun got from the Leviathan then repurposed or the dead ghost she got from the spider
So if I remember correctly the krill were to be chosen to become guardians by the traveler but the worm gods intervened and took them for themselves so I think they had the light inside them already and then it was tapped into by the traveler when savathun proved herself worthy by sacrifice
The witness intervened and I think it has something to do with savathun becoming a being of light and it having a ripple effect in her brood
what about the well spring in Savathun Thone world, is that a scours of light in that world?
1:51 wasnt the formic colony the name of the bugs in Ender's game?
could have a strange lifecycle of being born in hive, then leave the host then find home with a guardian
The light really said L Ä M P
Is the next power going to be like hive magic or something similar? That would be cool
No, hive magic isn't darkness and hive magic isn't red
@@levicarpenter5509 Ayo what's going on with that pfp of yours? 🤨
Hey byf just a note there're moths on the moon in d1 and d2
I always figured that moths originated from savathûn, given that her wings are moth- like in appearance
The moths have consciousness, something we've established to be a product of Darkness according to Osiris's musings. According to Ghost, they're pure light energy. Perhaps - and bear in mind this is one of those left-fielder hypotheses I like doing - these moths are Hive Awoken. Blend of dark and light, but didn't have a singularity to spend eons evolving into a more familiar form.
How come we don't develop cysts while weilding darkness? Or any such side effects? Other than the whispers and potential corruption, we just fine.
The worms aren’t worms. They are caterpillars that metamorphosis’s into months when they get light. Either through absorbing it when something dies and releases it’s light or when imbued like Savathun’s moths.
Edited first worms from works to worms*
I wonder if theyre souls of people inside of the travel that died in the collapse or just died in general 🧐 all the light inside living things that die must go somewhere. And we already know that theres at least one dead person inside the traveler. And if light comes from the traveler, and the traveler can resurrect, maybe those moths are a forl of reincarnation of those souls for lack of a better term?
Im probably wrong.
Wait so our light is technically dying souls? Maybe sacrificed in the name of the traveler when it’s “leaving” …I have no idea what I’m talking about
16:00 for mothkeeper reading
Could the moth being from a soul idea the reason they’re created from ex diris kills?
Before helping Humanity, the Traveller helped The Fallen and was going to help The Hive when the Witness intervened. If The Traveller chose them before choosing us, why we still look at them as enemies? If the Traveller chose the Fallen for prosperity, why we still see them as foes? We still have not seen the Cabal as been chosen by the Traveller. Maybe they will be the next species chosen by the Traveller. Maybe the Final Shape will be the acceptance and peace between all known species in Destiny.
What are lucent moths? Delicious.
cronchy
"back in the days of Witch Queen" made me feel like a boomer somehow
so, are Moths going to be the next new element?