Excavation costs are not an extra cost limited to ICF construction. You could have saved money by using Form Footer for your footer and eliminated that cold joint, pouring all of basement wall and footer in one day.in same day.
Just to add some additional pro-ICF info. I built a clients house in 2015 using Quad Lock ICF. It is up at over 5k' elevation in the mountains of Northern Utah. The climate pushes high 90s in the summer and a few below zeros in the winter on those special days. The system has 4" of exterior foam, 8" concrete core, and 2" of interior foam. The system was called the R38 thermal mass optimized. The design utilized principles of passive design. We installed hydronic heat into the slab on grade over 2" of rigid foam. There is an ARV to circulate fresh air a few times a day. This house has no cooling system. During the summer days the temp in the house maintains about 75 and holds steady. During the winter the sun heats the slab so effectively that the living room area of the house rarely if ever calls for heat and the owner typically cracks some windows to cool it down. During the summer all windows are shaded so no sunlight directly beams into the house. The house one of the quietest houses I have ever been in as a bonus. My experience was that compared to framing it did take longer to set the foam blocks compared to framing. But building a frame wall with the same insulation as this ICF to compare apples to apples would have cost much more in the end.
@@johnbeyke8486 No. Concrete was not a consideration for the roof as the design did not work with that system. Used traditional trusses with some field framed areas. It is a slab on grade as well so no floor system to deal with as well.
You just don't know how valuable this video is to many of us. Great job. Thank you. I'm torn between going ICF and ICCF. But this was beyond helpful. Looking to do a large (and tall) garage too. Thanks again.
Keep in mind ICCF has a MUCH lower R-value than ICF. May still be a good choice for a basement, but if you live anywhere you need good R-value I wouldn't use it above-grade.
@@fsl4346 Depends on your market. To get a good R-value you have to build a wood wall inside and/or do exterior insulation on ICCF or CMU. Going to come down to cost and personal preference. We are potentially doing an ICCF basement with interior insulation on an upcoming project. It depends how expensive concrete is when we begin, as the significant reduction of concrete with ICCF can be a great cost saver, but will it offset building another interior wall and adding more insulation?
Also call on the iccf. I called perfect block 5 years ago and their price per square foot was $9 per square foot. At the time fox blocks local distributor was $5 per square foot. We have termite swarms as an annual occurrence. Iccf is immune to termites. Icf walls need a 2 inch bare to the inner concrete inspection strip to pass a habitability home inspection. I think within 16 inches of the ground. I think you can stuff it with rockwool, then pull it 2 weeks before the inspection, but it is good to know about before you install your siding. You can cut the slot after you pour. You also may be able to cut a slim slot before you pour and install termamesh a stainless steel insect screen so that it is both embedded into your slab and extends several inches beyond the foam. So termites couldn’t enter the upper foam without climbing over the mesh which could be visually inspected. Iccf is also less desirable to rodents, though if they smelled something tasty they could still chew through it, unlike with an Icf wall which has a barrier plane.
Built our 2000 sq ft one story icf home in maine during pandemic. Math worked out way cheaper with icf. Sooo quiet, sooo warm in winter and cool in summer. I did all the labor, site work, radiant, plumbing, plaster and finishes, subbed electical. Came out to 80$/sq foot. I would recommend icf to anyone who has “some” experience in the trades.
With the housing market where it is in my neck of the woods, houses with half the square footage are going for $350,000. Usually built in the 1970's. No doubt riddled with code issues. Vid like this really helps in bringing perspective on whether building a home from scratch is a better alternative if you have the land. Thank you.
It always amazes me to see people not digging out a basement for a house, as for minimal extra cost you gain double the square footage of the size of the main floor of a house, plus the ability to locate the furnace, water heater, and utilities away from the main living area.
You're not entirely wrong, however, If we would have done that, the ICF would have had to increase to a 14" ICF wall rather than a 12" ICF wall based on structural load. Along with that there would have been much more rebar needed in the ICF wall as well as framing the entire floor system for the primary level. The price significantly increases overall when you add a basement. All to say, yes, it's slightly cheaper square footage to add, but it significantly increases the overall build price.
When you add a second level, you add a significant amount of weight and also load to the wall. In that case, you’ll have to size up your foundation wall to accommodate the load. The wall thickness would have to increase from a 6” internal concrete foundation wall to at least an 8” internal concrete foundation wall. The 12” and 14” widths come from the total wall thickness after you add the foam to the equation, taking up 6” in both applications.
@@WrenBuildingCo of course, one could also simply go with a traditional foundation made with formwork. The point is that without a full basement one is losing the opportunity of basically doubling the size of usable space in the home and avoiding having a noisy furnace upstairs in the living space.
We did the complete home ourselves, tremendous cost savings to what you represented. 2200 Sq.Ft. Basement complete with 10'5" walls and 3100 upstairs with 9' living up to 17' vaulted. All plumbing, heating, electrical and finish is very easy. Our only problem is with the tightness you have to install a whole house air exchanger that if its not running the exterior doors have to be pulled shut because you pull a vacuum on the space. Also never use treated window bucks, they make ICF window bucks so you can completely eliminate any thermal tie from the interior to the exterior. Great video
Ventilation system is key. Not only for what it does airing the house getting any funny odour out. We literally dry our clothes, inside the house, with no heating turned on, overnight. exterior 4 deg C, still. no moisture in windows. We got a stiebel eltron. I would highly recommend buy either Stiebel or Zhender.
@@martiruda OH I am so glad you recomended the stiebel eltron, it's the one we have been looking at for our new ICF build. We have had tankless for almost 20 and absolutely love them!! The brand we have is no longer being made, probably bought out by one of the others. Thank you!!
I've had an ICF home for 15 years - OK a few legit things I figured out and like SERVICE PANEL : Ok when you build a concrete house have the builder basically frame out an extra "window" in the basement or side of the house - not an actual window, just an area that is made out of wood, you can fill it with foam or cinder block - You see when the cable company comes out or you want to run something in and out of the house - yeah your local guy is not going to be able to cut thru these walls - I had a cable guy once come out and I told him where to run the line and explained this is 12 inches of concrete and steel and you need to go thru this area - hes like nah, it'll be fine - 2 drill bits later he came back in the house and asked where that service area was :) SOUND : Go into a new house and you can hear someone closing the car door outside - go into an ICF home and you "might" be able to hear the tornado siren :) STRENGTH : This house stopped any number of bullets - no I'm not in the hood , but not far from an area people like to hunt - so yeah pretty good against random morons who cant hit what they are aiming at ENERGY : Ok yes the R value isnt technically as "good" as a bunch of foam - however in PRACTICE - yeah this stuff works - I paid the same in gas and electric for a 2500 square foot home on PROPANE - as I did for a 1100 sq ft home on Nat gas - its just so dam air tight - and if you know how much propane costs yeah you know thats a great deal - ATTIC : SPEND extra on attic insulation to get the best results - VALUE : Every house I ever walked into that wasnt OLD felt flimsy - my ICF home, yeah you feel safe inside - and well its kind of nice knowing you have something that is gonna hold and protect you. COMPLAINTS : Ok houses settle, they all do - however in an ICF house well the outer walls DONT MOVE - but the inner walls do - So I've had a few cracks in the drywall here and there on some inner walls - nothing huge - but ehh is what it is
Edit: thanks for stating the sq footage at the end of the video. Original: Might have missed it, but the square footage would have been a hood to know. But I saw toward the end where you stated the grand total being roughly $42/ft. Thats a big house and cheap!!! Nice work!
Do you have an anticipated total finished build cost? I love the idea of doing a custom ICF build over mass produced stick frame garbage with poor tolerances where efficency is an afterthought. I also hate the thought of manufactured i joists and it seems like most builders use them today to try and pass them off as a positive for having open floor plans with fewer support structures, but ask firefighters what structures they'd prefer to go in.
I just finished two homes different layout - almost 600 linear feet of walls - first home modern had finish ceiling of 12' and 16' for garage - all 4 feet below grade for frost here in Ontario Canada. Second home same craftsman style home - tallest wall we poured one shot - 14 foot. indoor pool, AMDECK for garage and porch. Block charges are different everywhere, bracing and lumber and material, ICF screws we had $$$hundreds of dollars in screws. WE had 6 experience crew could have used 4 more ! It's still expensive but long term way better you hear the difference.
Great video. How would I find either a builder or home already built with ICF materials. Hard to find unless it's near the coast of SC. Myrtle Beach & Charleston SC areas. Looking for more of Charlotte area.
Awesome. We are moving for my wife's work. Buying a house is out of the question. Prices are obscene. I'm planning to buy property and build a 2400-3000 Sq ft ICF ranch, full basement. In floor heat. Geothermal. I'll do it all myself. I figure I can be all in for less than $100 a square ft.
Prices are for sure a difficult obstacle to navigate when building. But owner builder is one way to drastically reduce costs! $100/sqft can be done, all depends on the finish level of the home. If you have any questions, I’m always here to help :)
Looks like a beautiful new build. How do you run electric along the un-framed walls with ICF? Exposed conduit? I noticed the non-partioning walls weren't wood framed.
Correct, the exterior walls are all ICF and the way we run electrical and plumbing on those walls is by carving out the 2" of foam and running it in the foam. I have a description of how we accomplish that in an earlier video. I will be covering that however in my next video so look out for that here soon!
A good presentation of what they spent. To compare that to wood frame construction you would have to know how wood framed houses costs are broken down to the equivalent build point of this video. That is not easy to do. Also there are other costs to carry the home to completion that need to be compared. Electrical and plumbing can cost more or require modifying the floor plan to accomodate ICFs. Window and door framing can be more expensive, but this video is at least giving you a place to start from, but without good construction knowledge and cost estimating capability the normal homeowner would be at a loss to estimate the completion cost for the home.
We live in a state that experiences all four season. That being said we don’t have extreme weather, which makes an ICF roof extreme overkill. And for the price, it’s a tough sale. Installing a truss system similar to the one we installed will easily allow anybody to achieve R-49 insulation (code compliant) or better. If somebody wants a higher R-value in the roof, I would just blow in a few extra inches of insulation and get closer to an R-60. Cheaper route to maximum efficiency. Thank you for the question! Hope this helps
I was about to ask the same question about Quad Deck or Lite Deck roofing. Seems to be about the same as OSB, trusses, etc. and is pre-insulated, stronger, less labor, and really a lifetime roof. How much of a price difference did you see between concrete and wood? I am in a hurricane and tornado area, so my decision is sort of pre-made by Mother Nature, but would love to know the delta for when my Chief Accountability Officer (wife) asks 😁 @@WrenBuildingCo
Short answer, there is only value to someone who understands ICF. If you try selling the house to someone who doesn't know about ICF, they won't be able to justify spending more. ICF's value is hidden for sure which is a bit unfortunate. To appreciate ICF, you would have to experience the home's consistent environment. Outlining the homes savings throughout the year to a potential buyer would be key to selling at a premium. As this form of building becomes better known, I believe it'll be easier to sell these homes at a premium.
VERY helpful and outstanding video Josh! We are about to do the same thing. We are planning on going with Fox Blocks. I will be subscribed and following from here on out. 👍
Josh, did you run cost on a traditional stick 2x6 walls with foam insulation on your home when making a decision? I am preparing to build a home in CO in the mountains where fire prevention is worth considering. My builder claims the cost is higher but not major and he highly recommends ICF construction .
ICF is superior in many ways, and for that reason it’s a bit pricier. I will say that there are many ways to build efficiently so you really can’t go wrong as long as your builder is taking the proper steps to ensure a tight well insulated house. ICF is a great way to achieve that, but it’s also possible with other building practices. Lean on your builder and make sure he gives you factual reasons in preferring one over the other rather than opinions. I plan to release a video soon going over a direct cost comparison between ICF and traditional.
Are you going to install a whole house dehumidifer on this build? Many of the costs are also going to be area specific along with date specific too. As we know the price of building materials can very wildly in price. What will this house being using for it's HVAC system?
With an architect and premium product, bricked exterior.. Well my brother's new house @ 7k sqft is about 2M$ with a three car detached garage/loft (central IL on farmland, new well). I think it has solar tesla roof.. and dual fire places.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to get personal experience working with any other manufacturer. If I ever get a chance to do so, I would be excited to compare costs! I am not affiliated with Stronghold so my opinion is based its quality and ease of install. I've noticed this brand has more to offer than its competitors.
Amvic R-22 here in BC is about $5.60 per sq ft block cost from PACIFIC ICF. Amvic is 16" tall, full height webs at 6" apart so the block is very strong, the foam density is 1.5 and Amvic is a fully reversible block which means corners fit in every location ( just flip it over to instal)l, so fewer are required and there is less waste overall when blocks are reversible.@@WrenBuildingCo
I went through this and a poured foundation with ZipR-12 sheathing (2-1/2" R-12.5 XPS below grade) and R-18 spray foam on the inside was less expensive in my area. Styrofoam is not nearly as good of an insulator as XPS or closed cell spray foam and your walls won't be as thick for equivalent R-values. You also don't need to add nailing strips for siding, which adds even more thickness using ICF, as ZipR is the nailing surface. ICF is rarely used in my area for a reason. If we lived in Tornado Alley parts of the country, ICF might be the way to go?
I have land in DESOTO, TX.. that I am about to build on, do you recommend ICF OVER THE ZIP system there? CAN you do ICF with 2 story or is it best to keep it a 1 story?
@@joshua3084 I absolutely wouldn't do an ICF house where there's termites. Perkin Bros channel discussed that he couldn't get homeowners insurance where his ICF house is in the Carolinas due to termites potentially burrowing their way into the styrofoam. With an ICF house, it's hard to detect termites because the foam is so thick. ua-cam.com/video/JxJkYAA5jTU/v-deo.html Zip-R could have the same problem with termites but easier to add a screen wrapped around the bottom of Zip-R panels just above ground to keep them out. That's what I did for burrowing bugs but I'm not in a termite area (too cold in winter).
That would all depend on who you use. If they know what they're doing I couldn't imagine the price being too different. I would yield to an architect to answer this question..
Just curious. If you have a truss system for the ceiling do you need bearing walls on the interior? Could you have gone with steel stud interior walls? Much easier for the electrician. And lower labor, ends up cheaper. Thanks.
The only bearing wall is the one that separates the living from the garage. And you’re correct, we don’t have any bearing walls in the living area. Steel studs are typically more expensive in a residential application. Also, my plumbers and electricians seem to prefer installing in wood studs.
How much was plumbing and HVAC? Are you using an active ventilation system? I heard because ICF is so tightly sealed that you'll need strong ventilation for high humidity and mold prevention
Hey perfect timing finding your video, as I am considering doing this. I was in construction for a little, and helped with a single ICF foundation years ago which turned me onto it. Couple of questions: How much change would putting a basement or second floor be? Seems like a cost effective way for more sqft. Where does the plumbing go in, I am assuming in the floor, how much of a problem is it if you get leaks? As far as design of the house, would it be best to get a design from an ICF company, or get an archetit and just say icf? I just need very basic design, nothing crazy.
If you were to add an ICF basement, you would have to get wider ICF blocks over all to support the load (8in+ concrete walls), increase the amount you need, add to excavation costs, labor, rebar, concrete, etc... cheaper option would be to add a second story, ICF or light wood frame you're saving money. Either way you're spending quite a bit more. the plumbing we put below grade gets pressure tested. Both in the drains and water lines. There are also no couplers or 90's in the Pex lines. this minimizes the possibility of a leaking connection. Technically you don't NEED an ICF architect. As long as you have a rebar schedule from the engineer calling out where you need to put rebar, you're good to go. However, having someone familiar with ICF makes the install easier because there are some small things that make install easier if your architect/enginner knows about ICF.
It’s hard to know the costs exactly but ultimately we decided to go with light frame roof system due to ease of other trades installing etc. also, we will be able to stuff 18+ inches of insulation meeting or exceeding the code compliant R-49
Sometimes it makes me wonder if it even makes sense to build an ICF basement if your building an ICF main level.. cost is pretty much the same as long as you have the land to build
It really sucks in north America that we typically have to build with wood. South America is almost all concrete structures, and Europe is a lot of brick. And yet either of those are prohibitive here. Why???
My god. If you haven't started yet, run. Unless a hurricane or tornado is a risk, there is no point. Much better insulated and tighter houses for cheaper. I tried to mount a doorbell today. I needed 5" concrete anchors to get it where I wanted it. Just don't do it.
It’s hard for me to see the cost and effort of ICF being used only for the wall structures when there are ICF roof systems as well. Of course, I am looking at the utility of ICF through a strength and safety lens, not just for the insulation and noise reduction benefits. The ICF system can be used to create tornado proof and hurricane proof homes when combined with a poured lid as a roof.
Why dont you use icf inside of the house? Would you say icf is cheaper than stick build? Seems that there are way less steps. Would you recommend a double 2x4 wall with rockwool or icf from advantages as well as costs?
ICF is definitely not a cheap way to build, however, it is far superior due to its efficiency characteristics. Efficiency in construction and in energy consumption. Doubling up two by fours and staggering them is definitely a great way to construct a wall. There are many ways to build efficiently.
How familiar are you with SuperForm ICF? It seems to be much cheaper than Nundra and Fox Block. Based on some quick research it seems much stronger than and less likely to blowout.
I’m not familiar with SuperForm. Once I found Stronghold and saw a comparison against its primary competitors I became a big fan. It checks all the boxes for my clients and myself. Pricing also tends to come in under its competitors as well.
That’s not bad at all. I suspect you could have gotten it down below $35/sqft if you had gone with a two story design, all else being the same. Less roof and foundation costs. So for a 12 unit studio condo building of about that same square footage, I bet I could get the finished product down to $100/sqft, incredibly affordable, and sorely needed.
@@WrenBuildingCo when I building I’m not going to have thermal bridging cause I’m building for performance. Monopoly framing method with exterior insulation. I think I could get a better R value this way but nothing beats concrete as far as longevity
Damn, considering I have construction experience and I can save 10% at Lowe's/Home Depot with military discount, and considering my dream home is just over HALF this square footage, looks like I could probably build up to this same point of completion for $35/sqft.
Great question! We rented the bracing and plank supports. That cost was worked into the ICF block costs because we have a great sales rep who includes the bracing as part of the ICF costs. The planks we used to walk around on were apart of the overall lumber package cost.
Nice Work, I wish i could do some ICF projects but we just don't have any trades down here in Texas who do that as often. kinda scary to be the guinea pig.
You’d be surprised how simple ICF actually is. None of my trades had experience with ICF and they crushed it right out of the gate. Happy to guide you as much as I can if you ever decide to go down the ICF path!
For the first time, someone just stated the cost breakdown of a project with ICF. Simple, yet so hard to find on the web. Thank You! This helps!
Glad it was helpful!
This is exactly what made me subscribe no bs love it
@@WrenBuildingCo seriously. So hard to find a breakdown on the costs
@@PandorasFolly just you wait. I have a video coming out soon going more into depth and comparing to framed home!
Excavation costs are not an extra cost limited to ICF construction. You could have saved money by using Form Footer for your footer and eliminated that cold joint, pouring all of basement wall and footer in one day.in same day.
We built ICF ourselves. It’s been over 20yrs & we are so pleased. Used all metal framing & trusses & standing seam roof. Best house ever.
thank you for that comment, nice to hear from long term ICF home owners.
I'd love to see a price breakdown of going with metal framing with ICF! That's my dream!
Since when ICF is available in the US ? I live in Brazil and it’s availabel her just a few years !!
@@satyapotratz5637Call BuildBlock in Colorado, US. Very good😊
What gauge was the metal framing that you used? What's the vendor for the framing?
Just to add some additional pro-ICF info. I built a clients house in 2015 using Quad Lock ICF. It is up at over 5k' elevation in the mountains of Northern Utah. The climate pushes high 90s in the summer and a few below zeros in the winter on those special days. The system has 4" of exterior foam, 8" concrete core, and 2" of interior foam. The system was called the R38 thermal mass optimized. The design utilized principles of passive design. We installed hydronic heat into the slab on grade over 2" of rigid foam. There is an ARV to circulate fresh air a few times a day. This house has no cooling system. During the summer days the temp in the house maintains about 75 and holds steady. During the winter the sun heats the slab so effectively that the living room area of the house rarely if ever calls for heat and the owner typically cracks some windows to cool it down. During the summer all windows are shaded so no sunlight directly beams into the house. The house one of the quietest houses I have ever been in as a bonus. My experience was that compared to framing it did take longer to set the foam blocks compared to framing. But building a frame wall with the same insulation as this ICF to compare apples to apples would have cost much more in the end.
Did you incorporate any of the QuadLock roof panels in that build?
@@johnbeyke8486 No. Concrete was not a consideration for the roof as the design did not work with that system. Used traditional trusses with some field framed areas. It is a slab on grade as well so no floor system to deal with as well.
You just don't know how valuable this video is to many of us. Great job. Thank you. I'm torn between going ICF and ICCF. But this was beyond helpful. Looking to do a large (and tall) garage too. Thanks again.
That is very encouraging! Thank you for your kind words
Keep in mind ICCF has a MUCH lower R-value than ICF. May still be a good choice for a basement, but if you live anywhere you need good R-value I wouldn't use it above-grade.
@@joshua_a_boehm Thank you. I didn't know that. Is ICCF still better than wood and concrete blocks as materials?
@@fsl4346
Depends on your market. To get a good R-value you have to build a wood wall inside and/or do exterior insulation on ICCF or CMU. Going to come down to cost and personal preference.
We are potentially doing an ICCF basement with interior insulation on an upcoming project. It depends how expensive concrete is when we begin, as the significant reduction of concrete with ICCF can be a great cost saver, but will it offset building another interior wall and adding more insulation?
Also call on the iccf. I called perfect block 5 years ago and their price per square foot was $9 per square foot. At the time fox blocks local distributor was $5 per square foot.
We have termite swarms as an annual occurrence. Iccf is immune to termites. Icf walls need a 2 inch bare to the inner concrete inspection strip to pass a habitability home inspection. I think within 16 inches of the ground. I think you can stuff it with rockwool, then pull it 2 weeks before the inspection, but it is good to know about before you install your siding. You can cut the slot after you pour.
You also may be able to cut a slim slot before you pour and install termamesh a stainless steel insect screen so that it is both embedded into your slab and extends several inches beyond the foam. So termites couldn’t enter the upper foam without climbing over the mesh which could be visually inspected.
Iccf is also less desirable to rodents, though if they smelled something tasty they could still chew through it, unlike with an Icf wall which has a barrier plane.
Built our 2000 sq ft one story icf home in maine during pandemic. Math worked out way cheaper with icf. Sooo quiet, sooo warm in winter and cool in summer. I did all the labor, site work, radiant, plumbing, plaster and finishes, subbed electical. Came out to 80$/sq foot. I would recommend icf to anyone who has “some” experience in the trades.
With the housing market where it is in my neck of the woods, houses with half the square footage are going for $350,000. Usually built in the 1970's. No doubt riddled with code issues. Vid like this really helps in bringing perspective on whether building a home from scratch is a better alternative if you have the land. Thank you.
It always amazes me to see people not digging out a basement for a house, as for minimal extra cost you gain double the square footage of the size of the main floor of a house, plus the ability to locate the furnace, water heater, and utilities away from the main living area.
You're not entirely wrong, however, If we would have done that, the ICF would have had to increase to a 14" ICF wall rather than a 12" ICF wall based on structural load. Along with that there would have been much more rebar needed in the ICF wall as well as framing the entire floor system for the primary level. The price significantly increases overall when you add a basement.
All to say, yes, it's slightly cheaper square footage to add, but it significantly increases the overall build price.
@@WrenBuildingCo Those thicknesses seem quite excessive, where are those numbers coming from?
When you add a second level, you add a significant amount of weight and also load to the wall. In that case, you’ll have to size up your foundation wall to accommodate the load. The wall thickness would have to increase from a 6” internal concrete foundation wall to at least an 8” internal concrete foundation wall.
The 12” and 14” widths come from the total wall thickness after you add the foam to the equation, taking up 6” in both applications.
@@WrenBuildingCo of course, one could also simply go with a traditional foundation made with formwork. The point is that without a full basement one is losing the opportunity of basically doubling the size of usable space in the home and avoiding having a noisy furnace upstairs in the living space.
Certain climates, the water table and and environmental factors do not permit basements.
We did the complete home ourselves, tremendous cost savings to what you represented. 2200 Sq.Ft. Basement complete with 10'5" walls and 3100 upstairs with 9' living up to 17' vaulted. All plumbing, heating, electrical and finish is very easy. Our only problem is with the tightness you have to install a whole house air exchanger that if its not running the exterior doors have to be pulled shut because you pull a vacuum on the space. Also never use treated window bucks, they make ICF window bucks so you can completely eliminate any thermal tie from the interior to the exterior. Great video
How much? You mention a savings, but don't say how much.
Curious to know your costs as well
Ventilation system is key. Not only for what it does airing the house getting any funny odour out. We literally dry our clothes, inside the house, with no heating turned on, overnight. exterior 4 deg C, still. no moisture in windows. We got a stiebel eltron. I would highly recommend buy either Stiebel or Zhender.
@@martiruda OH I am so glad you recomended the stiebel eltron, it's the one we have been looking at for our new ICF build. We have had tankless for almost 20 and absolutely love them!! The brand we have is no longer being made, probably bought out by one of the others. Thank you!!
Well, most people can’t build their own house.
I've had an ICF home for 15 years - OK a few legit things I figured out and like
SERVICE PANEL : Ok when you build a concrete house have the builder basically frame out an extra "window" in the basement or side of the house - not an actual window, just an area that is made out of wood, you can fill it with foam or cinder block - You see when the cable company comes out or you want to run something in and out of the house - yeah your local guy is not going to be able to cut thru these walls - I had a cable guy once come out and I told him where to run the line and explained this is 12 inches of concrete and steel and you need to go thru this area - hes like nah, it'll be fine - 2 drill bits later he came back in the house and asked where that service area was :)
SOUND : Go into a new house and you can hear someone closing the car door outside - go into an ICF home and you "might" be able to hear the tornado siren :)
STRENGTH : This house stopped any number of bullets - no I'm not in the hood , but not far from an area people like to hunt - so yeah pretty good against random morons who cant hit what they are aiming at
ENERGY : Ok yes the R value isnt technically as "good" as a bunch of foam - however in PRACTICE - yeah this stuff works - I paid the same in gas and electric for a 2500 square foot home on PROPANE - as I did for a 1100 sq ft home on Nat gas - its just so dam air tight - and if you know how much propane costs yeah you know thats a great deal -
ATTIC : SPEND extra on attic insulation to get the best results -
VALUE : Every house I ever walked into that wasnt OLD felt flimsy - my ICF home, yeah you feel safe inside - and well its kind of nice knowing you have something that is gonna hold and protect you.
COMPLAINTS : Ok houses settle, they all do - however in an ICF house well the outer walls DONT MOVE - but the inner walls do - So I've had a few cracks in the drywall here and there on some inner walls - nothing huge - but ehh is what it is
Thank you sooo much for the breakdown of costs. I'm sold on going with ICF
Josh thank you for the break down and detailed explanations - nicely done!
Thanks for breaking down the costs because now I realize that this is doable for me.
Happy to hear that!
That is a very nice driveway you have. I like how it meanders around and isn't a straight shot to the house. It adds a flair to the property.
Great overview! And very good explanation of costs, benefits, and considerations. Wish you luck bud.
Edit: thanks for stating the sq footage at the end of the video.
Original: Might have missed it, but the square footage would have been a hood to know. But I saw toward the end where you stated the grand total being roughly $42/ft. Thats a big house and cheap!!! Nice work!
For the shell only
Thank you for the break down . I was always wondering how much icf would cost roughly.
Wonder no more!
How much faster is it to complete project build compared to stick built home?
Like the RV garage Nice build.
Maybe I missed it, but it would have been nice to see what the cost difference was between the ICF build and a traditional stick frame build.
Do you have an anticipated total finished build cost? I love the idea of doing a custom ICF build over mass produced stick frame garbage with poor tolerances where efficency is an afterthought. I also hate the thought of manufactured i joists and it seems like most builders use them today to try and pass them off as a positive for having open floor plans with fewer support structures, but ask firefighters what structures they'd prefer to go in.
Likely close to $400-500k
Crickets
I just finished two homes different layout - almost 600 linear feet of walls - first home modern had finish ceiling of 12' and 16' for garage - all 4 feet below grade for frost here in Ontario Canada. Second home same craftsman style home - tallest wall we poured one shot - 14 foot. indoor pool, AMDECK for garage and porch. Block charges are different everywhere, bracing and lumber and material, ICF screws we had $$$hundreds of dollars in screws. WE had 6 experience crew could have used 4 more ! It's still expensive but long term way better you hear the difference.
Great video. How would I find either a builder or home already built with ICF materials. Hard to find unless it's near the coast of SC. Myrtle Beach & Charleston SC areas. Looking for more of Charlotte area.
Awesome. We are moving for my wife's work. Buying a house is out of the question. Prices are obscene.
I'm planning to buy property and build a 2400-3000 Sq ft ICF ranch, full basement. In floor heat. Geothermal.
I'll do it all myself. I figure I can be all in for less than $100 a square ft.
Prices are for sure a difficult obstacle to navigate when building. But owner builder is one way to drastically reduce costs! $100/sqft can be done, all depends on the finish level of the home. If you have any questions, I’m always here to help :)
Thank you sooo much for pricing all of the items. Helps a lot for new and prospective builders.
Looks like a beautiful new build. How do you run electric along the un-framed walls with ICF? Exposed conduit? I noticed the non-partioning walls weren't wood framed.
Correct, the exterior walls are all ICF and the way we run electrical and plumbing on those walls is by carving out the 2" of foam and running it in the foam. I have a description of how we accomplish that in an earlier video. I will be covering that however in my next video so look out for that here soon!
Thanks for sharing. Greetings from Sweden! Keep it coming!
Thanks for sharing the break down costs. While every build is different, this gives me a better understanding. 👍
Happy to help!
A good presentation of what they spent. To compare that to wood frame construction you would have to know how wood framed houses costs are broken down to the equivalent build point of this video. That is not easy to do. Also there are other costs to carry the home to completion that need to be compared. Electrical and plumbing can cost more or require modifying the floor plan to accomodate ICFs. Window and door framing can be more expensive, but this video is at least giving you a place to start from, but without good construction knowledge and cost estimating capability the normal homeowner would be at a loss to estimate the completion cost for the home.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that Siri listens to when it's not intended! Got me laughing out loud. haha
Is this type of foundation recommended for places with harsh winters ?
I would say they’re recommended in any climate. It’s a very efficient envelope.
Fantastic information! Did you consider an ICF roof vs wood? If so, why go with wood?
We live in a state that experiences all four season. That being said we don’t have extreme weather, which makes an ICF roof extreme overkill. And for the price, it’s a tough sale. Installing a truss system similar to the one we installed will easily allow anybody to achieve R-49 insulation (code compliant) or better.
If somebody wants a higher R-value in the roof, I would just blow in a few extra inches of insulation and get closer to an R-60. Cheaper route to maximum efficiency.
Thank you for the question! Hope this helps
I was about to ask the same question about Quad Deck or Lite Deck roofing. Seems to be about the same as OSB, trusses, etc. and is pre-insulated, stronger, less labor, and really a lifetime roof. How much of a price difference did you see between concrete and wood? I am in a hurricane and tornado area, so my decision is sort of pre-made by Mother Nature, but would love to know the delta for when my Chief Accountability Officer (wife) asks 😁 @@WrenBuildingCo
Thank you so much. What is the resale value on these builds? Do they depreciate like manufacured homes?
Short answer, there is only value to someone who understands ICF. If you try selling the house to someone who doesn't know about ICF, they won't be able to justify spending more.
ICF's value is hidden for sure which is a bit unfortunate. To appreciate ICF, you would have to experience the home's consistent environment. Outlining the homes savings throughout the year to a potential buyer would be key to selling at a premium. As this form of building becomes better known, I believe it'll be easier to sell these homes at a premium.
VERY helpful and outstanding video Josh! We are about to do the same thing. We are planning on going with Fox Blocks. I will be subscribed and following from here on out. 👍
So happy to hear this was helpful for you! I appreciate your kind words. Thank you :)
PACIFIC ICF supplies AMVIC R-30 and R-22 ICF in BC and western US and Ontario. Amvic is very strong with 6" spacing of webs on the R-22 ICF block
Amvic has better density..Nudura XR 35 R VALVE 48
Five years I was looking for this video 😅
Thanks man
Josh, did you run cost on a traditional stick 2x6 walls with foam insulation on your home when making a decision? I am preparing to build a home in CO in the mountains where fire prevention is worth considering. My builder claims the cost is higher but not major and he highly recommends ICF construction
.
ICF is superior in many ways, and for that reason it’s a bit pricier. I will say that there are many ways to build efficiently so you really can’t go wrong as long as your builder is taking the proper steps to ensure a tight well insulated house. ICF is a great way to achieve that, but it’s also possible with other building practices.
Lean on your builder and make sure he gives you factual reasons in preferring one over the other rather than opinions.
I plan to release a video soon going over a direct cost comparison between ICF and traditional.
Thanks for the prompt reply and I will watch for your future video on price comparisons on ICF vs traditional.
Hey, would you say that this video captures the majority of costs associated with building this home? Thanks.
This video captures majority of the differences between ICF construction versus traditional stick frame construction.
Hi. Thanks for the information.
Quick question. Maybe I’ve missed but Is there roof insulation and how much did that cost?
Thanks
this helps alot! Im looking to do the same. If the land we can find is a good price then this will work even better than i thought ( In florida)
Bruh I've got my house designed and in Florida. This Is crazy yo
nice!! how big and did you do it yourself?@@jbac5767
Am also getting ready to build in Florida with icf
Did you all find a good builder? Thinking of doing the same in SW Florida, just now starting to look around.
ICF walls is the best way to go… if I ever build a house, I would do Quadlock ICF, easier to transport the foams….
ICF; energy efficient and quality
Are you going to install a whole house dehumidifer on this build? Many of the costs are also going to be area specific along with date specific too. As we know the price of building materials can very wildly in price. What will this house being using for it's HVAC system?
Where are you located? We live in Minnesota and this would be great but I’m not sure who to talk to about ICF in our area. Any suggestions?
Spokane WA. You’re welcome to email me and I’ll do my best to answer your questions
This was a great and informative video, would like to see what the total turn key cost was.
With an architect and premium product, bricked exterior.. Well my brother's new house @ 7k sqft is about 2M$ with a three car detached garage/loft (central IL on farmland, new well). I think it has solar tesla roof.. and dual fire places.
how many sq ft is this?
Earned a sub! You broke this down very well!
Great info. Did you shop any other ICF manufacturers (Fox, Nudura, Amvic, etc)? Wondering how Stronghold compares price wise.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to get personal experience working with any other manufacturer. If I ever get a chance to do so, I would be excited to compare costs!
I am not affiliated with Stronghold so my opinion is based its quality and ease of install. I've noticed this brand has more to offer than its competitors.
Amvic R-22 here in BC is about $5.60 per sq ft block cost from PACIFIC ICF. Amvic is 16" tall, full height webs at 6" apart so the block is very strong, the foam density is 1.5 and Amvic is a fully reversible block which means corners fit in every location ( just flip it over to instal)l, so fewer are required and there is less waste overall when blocks are reversible.@@WrenBuildingCo
What does ICF stand for? Insulated Concrete Form?
I went through this and a poured foundation with ZipR-12 sheathing (2-1/2" R-12.5 XPS below grade) and R-18 spray foam on the inside was less expensive in my area. Styrofoam is not nearly as good of an insulator as XPS or closed cell spray foam and your walls won't be as thick for equivalent R-values. You also don't need to add nailing strips for siding, which adds even more thickness using ICF, as ZipR is the nailing surface. ICF is rarely used in my area for a reason.
If we lived in Tornado Alley parts of the country, ICF might be the way to go?
65% of the lower 48 states are in tornado alley or hurricane zone.
I have land in DESOTO, TX.. that I am about to build on, do you recommend ICF OVER THE ZIP system there? CAN you do ICF with 2 story or is it best to keep it a 1 story?
@@joshua3084 I absolutely wouldn't do an ICF house where there's termites. Perkin Bros channel discussed that he couldn't get homeowners insurance where his ICF house is in the Carolinas due to termites potentially burrowing their way into the styrofoam. With an ICF house, it's hard to detect termites because the foam is so thick. ua-cam.com/video/JxJkYAA5jTU/v-deo.html Zip-R could have the same problem with termites but easier to add a screen wrapped around the bottom of Zip-R panels just above ground to keep them out. That's what I did for burrowing bugs but I'm not in a termite area (too cold in winter).
Excellent video and cost breakdown. 👏🏻👏🏻
Only question I have is does the cost of structural/architectural engineering plans defer at all with an ICF build?
That would all depend on who you use. If they know what they're doing I couldn't imagine the price being too different. I would yield to an architect to answer this question..
Just curious. If you have a truss system for the ceiling do you need bearing walls on the interior? Could you have gone with steel stud interior walls? Much easier for the electrician. And lower labor, ends up cheaper. Thanks.
The only bearing wall is the one that separates the living from the garage. And you’re correct, we don’t have any bearing walls in the living area. Steel studs are typically more expensive in a residential application. Also, my plumbers and electricians seem to prefer installing in wood studs.
@@WrenBuildingCo as a commercial plumber, if you go steel studs, I'm in! 😂
I hate drilling so much wood!
EXTREMELY HELPFUL!!!!
So glad!
How much was plumbing and HVAC? Are you using an active ventilation system? I heard because ICF is so tightly sealed that you'll need strong ventilation for high humidity and mold prevention
Great video! Thanks so much!
Awesome video man! Thanks for the info man!
Awesome job, thanks! Nice touch not editing out your phone interruption 😂.
Thanks for the great video, helpful!
Hey perfect timing finding your video, as I am considering doing this. I was in construction for a little, and helped with a single ICF foundation years ago which turned me onto it. Couple of questions:
How much change would putting a basement or second floor be? Seems like a cost effective way for more sqft.
Where does the plumbing go in, I am assuming in the floor, how much of a problem is it if you get leaks?
As far as design of the house, would it be best to get a design from an ICF company, or get an archetit and just say icf? I just need very basic design, nothing crazy.
If you were to add an ICF basement, you would have to get wider ICF blocks over all to support the load (8in+ concrete walls), increase the amount you need, add to excavation costs, labor, rebar, concrete, etc... cheaper option would be to add a second story, ICF or light wood frame you're saving money. Either way you're spending quite a bit more.
the plumbing we put below grade gets pressure tested. Both in the drains and water lines. There are also no couplers or 90's in the Pex lines. this minimizes the possibility of a leaking connection.
Technically you don't NEED an ICF architect. As long as you have a rebar schedule from the engineer calling out where you need to put rebar, you're good to go. However, having someone familiar with ICF makes the install easier because there are some small things that make install easier if your architect/enginner knows about ICF.
Awesome break down. Thanks. Did you consider insuldeck, lite deck concrete roof etc. Think it would have been less than. All the woodwork.
It’s hard to know the costs exactly but ultimately we decided to go with light frame roof system due to ease of other trades installing etc. also, we will be able to stuff 18+ inches of insulation meeting or exceeding the code compliant R-49
Sometimes it makes me wonder if it even makes sense to build an ICF basement if your building an ICF main level.. cost is pretty much the same as long as you have the land to build
Great reviews thanks for sharing
It really sucks in north America that we typically have to build with wood.
South America is almost all concrete structures, and Europe is a lot of brick.
And yet either of those are prohibitive here. Why???
Say, I had an ICF build house and wanted to make an ICF addition, how easy / difficult would it be to do so?
wouldnt you do all the steps and cut out a pathway to get to the addition...
My god. If you haven't started yet, run. Unless a hurricane or tornado is a risk, there is no point. Much better insulated and tighter houses for cheaper.
I tried to mount a doorbell today. I needed 5" concrete anchors to get it where I wanted it. Just don't do it.
Great work bro!
Great breakdown! Can this go to a second story?
Attic Truss's you could, but if you built another full story, you'd need thicker concrete walls. Probably 8"
Best house you could build. It may cost more, but will save you more.
great work bro!
Appreciate it!
It’s hard for me to see the cost and effort of ICF being used only for the wall structures when there are ICF roof systems as well. Of course, I am looking at the utility of ICF through a strength and safety lens, not just for the insulation and noise reduction benefits. The ICF system can be used to create tornado proof and hurricane proof homes when combined with a poured lid as a roof.
Why dont you use icf inside of the house?
Would you say icf is cheaper than stick build? Seems that there are way less steps.
Would you recommend a double 2x4 wall with rockwool or icf from advantages as well as costs?
ICF is definitely not a cheap way to build, however, it is far superior due to its efficiency characteristics. Efficiency in construction and in energy consumption.
Doubling up two by fours and staggering them is definitely a great way to construct a wall. There are many ways to build efficiently.
How familiar are you with SuperForm ICF? It seems to be much cheaper than Nundra and Fox Block. Based on some quick research it seems much stronger than and less likely to blowout.
I’m not familiar with SuperForm. Once I found Stronghold and saw a comparison against its primary competitors I became a big fan. It checks all the boxes for my clients and myself. Pricing also tends to come in under its competitors as well.
That’s not bad at all. I suspect you could have gotten it down below $35/sqft if you had gone with a two story design, all else being the same. Less roof and foundation costs.
So for a 12 unit studio condo building of about that same square footage, I bet I could get the finished product down to $100/sqft, incredibly affordable, and sorely needed.
Thanks man helpful fersure and conrates
Im surprised Washington state only requires such low footers. Usually in 4 season norther states its 4 foot minimum.
Thanks for this presentation
Part of the cost is how long it takes to build as well. The longer takes the more it's gonna cost. It's not just material.
What’s the r value with that? Did I miss it?
R-23 roughly. Far more effective than traditional framing too since there is no thermal bridging.
@@WrenBuildingCo when I building I’m not going to have thermal bridging cause I’m building for performance. Monopoly framing method with exterior insulation. I think I could get a better R value this way but nothing beats concrete as far as longevity
Damn, considering I have construction experience and I can save 10% at Lowe's/Home Depot with military discount, and considering my dream home is just over HALF this square footage, looks like I could probably build up to this same point of completion for $35/sqft.
Great video and information!
Hi Josh , I am thinking about an ICF home in Florida, so total cost was 165k for 3900 sq ft ?
He said that the finished cost of the house was 400-500k (turn key) in response to someone else's question.
How long are those 2x6 joist spans? Wow, no chairs on the rebar?
Soooo helpful oh my goodness.
No mention of sewer and water lines under the slab.
Can you do multiple stories using icf
Yes you can. I have another video showing a client who built a two story ICF home.
To many thinks to thank you about on this videos
The only thing missing was the rough time it took for each install/stage.
Oof! Content moving forward, I’ll try to add those details!
Can you do multiple stories with that?
Yes
What manufacturer are you using? How far was block shipped?
Stronghold ICF. Shipped from Post Falls ID to Spokane WA
@@WrenBuildingCo thanks for reply.
Basement is the best way to go,
Then slab on grade.
Did labor cost include wall bracing? Did you rent or own?
Great question! We rented the bracing and plank supports. That cost was worked into the ICF block costs because we have a great sales rep who includes the bracing as part of the ICF costs. The planks we used to walk around on were apart of the overall lumber package cost.
ICF makes sense for single story , slab on grade-when you get into basement, bugs, and two stories not so much-
What makes you say that?
Can we build 5000 sqft ICF home on the hill?
Nice Work, I wish i could do some ICF projects but we just don't have any trades down here in Texas who do that as often. kinda scary to be the guinea pig.
You’d be surprised how simple ICF actually is. None of my trades had experience with ICF and they crushed it right out of the gate. Happy to guide you as much as I can if you ever decide to go down the ICF path!
Thx, will definitely keep note of that. 🙏🏾@@WrenBuildingCo
May take you up on that offer if its cool bro, Ill give all credit to your channel@@WrenBuildingCo
If you need some guidance, I would be more than happy to help @sammyc1234
ICF videos exist and train installers , a carpenter is able to do it. At Pacific ICF ( AMVIC) we do consultations for folks who are beginning
Very informative video. Cash sound effects are annoying AF. one is good enough
Did you consider metal studs?
Not for this build, no
Is that concrete cost per truck load? Or total?
Total
I gave you a thumb up just because of that long roll of plastic you let fall and totally dead-panned it.
😂
Could see a safe room in One corner of the room in floor heat?
Can you say where this is being built? That'll have an impact on the costs.
Spokane WA
Those prices are so cheap. My ICF house is larger but proportionally it's almost twice as much.
I don’t know if I’m your spirit animal or you’re mine but I also would’ve pulled that Tyvek down & lost patience with Siri!
😂
How many man hours did it take to build and fill the block?
Took a crew varying from 1-4 guys over the span of 2 weeks.