The information you gained (and now sharing) from actually living in an ICF house are golden. Of all the ICF videos i've seen, not one mentioned moisture issues and to consider wet-rated outlets/switches on the icf wall. Thanks for sharing!
I'm glad to help. Just yesterday, I was installing some additional cabinets and had to move a plug up a couple inches, which meant I had to remove a little of the foam. The concrete behind the foam that I removed was bone dry. The good news is, the concrete does seem to dry out over time and the moisture issue goes away. At this point, it's been about 3.5 years. Just a little more data for you to absorb.
I would not call those things Drawbacks. They are part of the Tip & Trick of Beat Practices with ICF. Everything is a problem if you don’t know about it.
This is a great video! I am planning on building an ICF house and doing the plans on my own, starting with an ICF wall design. Your points about wall penetrations are very good. As another wise viewer mentioned, it is probably a good idea to add a few extra electrical penetrations and cap them off with unglued PVC pipes and caps. In ICF, measure twice cut once may not be enough. I'm thinking of measure four times then have someone else check it before finalizing the window and door bucking! Your discussion about moisture was new to me in my review of ICF construction. I am curious if many others have had similar issues with moisture. Overall, you make a lot of really good points and I really appreciate the information.
Those are all very good points. We have been in our ICF rancher for almost three years in Canada. We still run a dehumidifier in our 4' crawlspace. Don't build a crawlspace thinking you will use it for root vegetable storage. It stays too warm. We didn't put siding on until this past summer. If you're building an ICF house yourself, finish the outside before you begin the interior. Doing exterior finishes after that fine yellow powder has formed is a TOTAL pain. We put HardiePlank on our house. It's a little more involved than putting it on a wood framed house but it is doable. We decided that everything considered, we would build ICF again. It's quiet, energy efficient, and we know it's strong. We gave away our air conditioners because the house stays cool and it's very easy to heat. We live in an area where the temperatures in the summer are over 100F and well below zero in winter. During construction, the house stayed quite warm overnight without heat on. Do check into house insurance before you build though. Many insurance companies have very little experience with ICF. Most refused to insure us and some didn't know how to classify the house. Others wanted exorbitant premiums. It's a great product to build with all in all.
@@Fuder95Ibra Yes, ICF meets the building code requirements in Canada. The drywall, plywood, or whatever finish wallboard you put over it will keep fumes out long enough for you to escape.
@@crystalwright1504 so at end of the day we have encapsulation after the building is over, with materials that comply with the required FRR of the NBC?
@@Fuder95Ibra The ICF fully meets the NBC for strength, fire rating, etc. But yes, you would cover both inside and outside with other materials. For instance, we used fibrous cement board siding on the outside and plywood on the inside. Most people would use drywall.
Excellent video. Thanks for the info... definitely gonna put a lotta thought into it before we begin construction.👍🏾 Drawback #1 - 0:39 Drawback #2 - 1:45 Drawback #3 - 4:07 Drawback #4 - 5:05 Drawback #5 - 5:31 Drawback #6 - 6:43 Drawback #7 - 8:12
Really good summary of ICF issues. I would add a couple of comments or clariiers: 1. We actually found moving the blocks to be quite easy. The individual blocks weight very little and moving a bundle is fairly easy - two long 2x4s and two people can move them with ease. I do see your point for the second story. But again- a little help and they can be easily moved. 2. Great comment about penetrations - I have an outside door where I would like to have a light. The idea of drilling through 7” of reinforced concrete has kept me from putting a light there so far. Recommend you develop a “penetration plan” and have someone check it. Also consider going to a home that has been completed and think about the penetrations- think about HVAC drains, power to outside lighting, power to an outbuilding, consider a couple of “spare penetrations” for future electrical. 3. The walls are think but one great thing this gives you is nice shelves on the inside- every room in our home has taken advantage of this. Really nice for decorating at Christmas. 4. Great suggestion about interior walls - we did this as much as we could - made construction much easier. 5. We have had zero issues with humidity - we built “slab on grade” which may be the difference- the other thing we did was to use all mini-splits for HVAC which we have set to specifically remove the humidity. One thing we were warned about is that HVAC installers will oversize the HVAC- this is so true. Even after being very clear about how much more efficient the house is our HVAC guy still oversized the HVAC by 30%. Recommend you install a Direct Vent gas fire place. These are very efficient and heat the downstairs of our home very well. Our typical electric bill is under $200 a month even in the heat of the summer and the coldest part of the winter- and we have 5000ft2
In ICF houses central air is not your friend,. there is no way to size the ac unit exactly based on heat loads that may or may not happen for each year. Mini Splits are your friend because you can over size them by a larger factor. Depending on the model you get can range from x amount to x amount. So a room that requires 5k btu you can over size it to 24k btu if the minimum cooling is 5k btu. You will have to contact the manufacture to get this information. Over sizing your mini split will help in many ways by maintaining the temp set all the time while still having enough cooling power to remove moisture and unexpected heat loads.
@@Taskarnin built for $80.00/sq ft. Did some work ourselves- some painting and some interior trim- oh and did the majority of the ICF work which turned out to be the easiest and most enjoyable part of the project. ICF is extremely easy to work with. Also did most of final plumbing. We have been in the house for 6 years now. Even more happy than when we first built. Very low electric bills, house is very low maintenance and it feels incredibly solid.
@@Taskarnin built for $80/sqft- we did some work ourselves. We did stack the ICF block which turned out to be very easy. Did some paint and interior trim.
Wish I would’ve known about using a dehumidifier on our basement. We moved in and within a month everything downstairs was covered in mold . With that said we now have a dehumidifier and have had no problems and love the energy efficiency. Thanks for the video very helpful!
Where is the moisture coming from? We put a vapor barrier under the slab, and exterior waterproofing and footing drain around the outside, basement is bone dry…
@@htschad9685 i would blame ambient humidity first. High humidity would slow the cc drying, but it should have been at least to the level of the surrounding humidity before the house build was complete.
Great video! I've just started looking into ICF construction and this is the first video that I've seen that deals with what I would call the aftermath. Not that the end product is negative, it's just dealing with an building with a long curing stage that a lot of home owners are not aware of.
House is ICF glad I went this route, learned a lot from the build and wish I could do it over again like any house you build would make changes. Did the plans myself, cost 0, super energy efficient, mouse proof telehandler was great for a lot of the work. Storing outside for short period not a problem. Contractor screwed up windows on second level, had to use concrecte chain saw to fix after pour. Would have put more penetrations in the the walls. Windows were a challenge. Cut runs for wires with a electric chain saw, no plumbing in outside walls. Dehumdifiers usefull.
Plumbing in outside walls is fine if you add an interior wood-framed plumbing wall. This will make the window areas 16" deep. That's perfect for a house plant.
I needed to hear about these concerns. There is a lot about the prose of ICF. Finding an experienced ICF contractor is another important part because there are intricacies that need attention to detail. We are planning an ICF basement only, and on top a stick build with Zip R sheathing, insulation on the outside of the studs for thermal bridging issues. That way there are more options possibly later on should one want to add a window or make structural changes. It is amazing what outer insulation you can put on a home sitting on an icf basement foundation now a day, even here in Eastern Canada, Atlantic region. Thank you for this matter a fact and considerations to think about. 👍 🙏 🇨🇦
Did you succeed in doing this? We are trying to decide whether to do just as you describe (ICF basement and 2x6 zip R sheathing for upper floors-or all ICF). Wondering which is best and if you are glad you approached it half and half?
@@Karen-rx9xo Update: The concern is on going with finding here on Prince Edward Island an experienced contractor to do a full ICF home. Navigating to find an ICF company, contractor, for the basement is a challenge in itself, here on Prince Edward Island. The decision is to do basement only in ICF. Lack of confidence in skilled ICF workmanship here on PEI combined with wanting options in a 2.6 stick build for upper floors were the 2 and only considerations to the final decision. Its very difficult here on Prince Edward Island to trust building, contractors, here. The workmanship in what we observed in viewing homes being built, and talking to new home owners who went through the stress of dealing with the labour building force here is disappointing. The plans are ICF basement with 2.6 stick build on top. :)
Thanks for the great video. I built my first full ICF home a couple of years back. I designed the house for ICF so during the design phase we thought through many of the issues you mentioned. I used Nudura, their blocks fold down so I didn't have the storage issue. They shipped it factory direct in a full semi trailer. I also didn't have any of the moisture issues that you referred to either, mind you we have a fresh air exchange system so perhaps that alleviated that. We did come to the same conclusion though, I would never build a home any other way. We have hot summers and cold winters and heating (radiant) and cooling (HP AC) is a breeze.
TIP: Remove that yellow powdery layer of sun-aged ICF by pressure washing with a wide-spray head. Works well Handeeman did it on his Arizona ICF build... super fast & simple. Done in 30 minutes!
We ran 2 industrial-sized dehumidifiers after walls and roof were up but before any drywall etc was installed. This quickly dried out my full ICF home after most of the water outgassed we finished the interior this works better than drying when sheet rocks ups.
I spent ten years building ICF here in the UK, I think is a great way to build. Most of his points were valid however I think it’s worth it for the type of structure you end up with, although I will say changing your plans to suit the blocks is useful but defiantly not essential. I would definitely recommend a heat recovery system as the wall are so air tight without it you could end up with a moisture problem.
I agree with you that one should not try to run a dryer vent up an ICF exterior wall. However, I recommend you run your dryer vents horizontally, straight THROUGH your exterior wall. This will cause less bends and ductwork where lint can gather and clog up your vent. Keep it short, straight and simple. This way, you can reach into the wall duct and clean it out by hand, rather than hiring a pro. Also, you'll need make up air coming into the home to allow good air flow out the vents. He mentioned this fresh air intake penetration in the video.
Hello. Great video !!! Helps me a lot. Could you telo me the name of the primer you use on the external wall? Is that a pink One ? I am In Brazil and need to know the name of the Brand .
Thanks! Interesting comment about residual moisture. We just did 3 buildings with foam-outside concrete-inside, and had no noticeable residual moisture - in fact they all seemed particularly dry. In these cases the concrete water content was very low, and the concrete is exposed to the interior.
Just Subbed🤗This is a very informative video and has opened my eyes but, has not deterred me from utilizing ICF. You explained everything perfectly,TFS💯
I’m really glad I found your channel. I’m looking into building my first/forever home rather than buying, but am not at all jazzed about building with lumber framing. Really great information here from someone who’s worked with ICF! It seems like it requires a lot more careful planning than lumber framing or even steel, but I think I’d much prefer this for the energy efficiency and strength.
Hey Garrett, really appreciate your video especially about the moisture. We are in Australia and in an area which sounds like it has similar temp to Kansas. Extreme heat during summer and freezing cold during winter. My husband and I have been building our ICF house for the last 5 years we have just moved into half of the house, the bedrooms just before Christmas and I've been finding it difficult to breathe and found it quite stuffy. We did notice the humidity levels are very high and so after seeing your video it makes so much sense what is going on. We will definitely invest in some dehumidifiers. What are your thoughts on L size for the bedrooms? Also, are you still using them?
My humidity levels have dropped more to a normal level (It took 2-3 years from the date we filled the walls with concrete). I definitely still require dehumidifiers during the summer though, as would be usual for any house during the summer in Kansas. It just gets humid during the late spring, summer and early fall.
ICF houses are very tight, so you need a ventilation system to bring in fresh air and expel stale inside air. In the meantime, cracking your windows would certainly help.
We had a brand new Blue Max Home Built as a test market in KC in 1999 this was new to builders....so our home was built as the same price as a stick frame! It withstands hurricane force winds! We did however had a built in Air Filteration system installed due to the very little air flow however utilities are so low!! Its still performing above standards!
Helpful advice. Most of what you say is about project management rather than a fault with the ICF blocks. ie proper design and good site management are key. Helpful tips non the less.
When building plans are drawn for ICF there should be no additional design costs. They force more pre-thinking about the design but that has to be a good thing as design changes during the build always cost money.
@@Dave5843-d9m Building houses or buildings in general, the things you mentioned are common things to do with any project. In my experience, when designs are changed it means someone has to do it and they are paid. Any design changes typically incour a charge and that is normal. To me it sounds like you have a issue with them because of your lack of preporation or planning. There can be unforseen things and someone with experience will know what to do but the concerns you discussed are fairly basic preplanning. I was expecting something major but this is basic stuff for most any major building project unless you are very inexperienced and then this is a project you shouldn't be doing.
Question: I have a 6,762 sq ft 2-story ICF and now working on HVAC for it. I’d entertained Geothermal but common power outages makes me hesitant. I’m interested in knowing the size and quantity of HVAC systems people with ICF use, lessons learned, etc. recommendations. Thanks
Thanks for posting.....Great content....I'm building my own ICF home next year. Just curious why no dryer vent on exterior wall? What problems have you discovered? Thanks for the information.
Thanks for the comment. I ran my dryer vent to the roof. I suppose if you clear enough foam around the dryer vent, you could run one thru. Since the dyers get so hot, I was afraid of the foam melting or off-gassing near the vent as it heated up. I suppose it is personal preference. Other than the moisture, I can't think of any other ICF problems I've had since I finished.
We ran our dryer vent through the exterior wall. After three years, we haven't had any issues. We just did siding so we were able to see the foam clealy. It was a bit of a pain putting HardiePlank around things that come through the walls though. My husband didn't want to saw holes through the center of a plank especially if it had to be split over two rows of siding. There are only ties that the siding can be screwed to every 8" and Hardie is required to be anchored no more than 5" from the cut end of the plank. Less is better. If you put your items too far from a tie, you need to cut your siding short(ending it near the tie that's closest) and use a wood board or something similar that spans across your ties on either side of your dryer vent, electrical box, etc with a cutout for it to come through. It's not always going to end up looking symmetrical. It would have been much easier had we placed those items closer to the vertical ties in the block. Good luck with your build!! It's a very easy system to learn to build. FoxBlocks has a great video series with very helpful tips that would likely apply to any brand of blocks.
I've been on a barndaminium kick for a future build. I like the idea of icf though too. I think both appear to benefit from hydronic heat in the slab. I'm assuming you did that? The only draw back I see with icf is keeping mice out of the foam. I know it could be flashed with tin, but what did you use?
O8:05 Long dryer vents runs, especially long vertical runs, are to be avoided. They are a lint fire hazard. In a long vertical run, moisture will condense within the vent pipe, more so in the winter. That leads to excessive lint accumulation and thus a fire hazard. Not to mention the problem of keeping wind driven rain water from being directed into your dryer, an electrical fire hazard. Ask any code enforcement inspector if dryer vents going through the roof are legal. The solution to dryer vents,along with any other kind of penetration, in ICF walls is to plan ahead for the dryer location before the concrete pour.
I'm considering about using icf for my home in the Philippines 🇵🇭 a very humid country my home will be above grade on footer...would you be concerned with the humidity issue as you describe and would a dehumidifier be your soultion?
#8, if not carefully built mice and rodents will make a maze in the foam insulation behind the siding and make their way into the house. #9, putting up heavy objects inside the house (on the exterior wall) is a PITA. Especially trying to determine where the electrical and "spines" are located. In most cases you have to put anchor bolts in the concrete for heavier items. Professional installation may be required if hanging a 110" TV, etc.
#8 - as with any type of construction, you need to seal holes/access to prevent rodents/insects from getting into things. However, rodents/insects will have a very hard time getting through the concrete. I would recommend either a cement board type of siding, or stone/brick veneer. #9 - ICF homes need planned out in detail, like all homes, but the cost/pain to make changes after is more. In theory, shouldn't a stud finder find the spines, after all they are metal. Otherwise, you may have to drill into the concrete, which while a pain, isn't that big of a deal. But once again, if you know you will be hanging heavy items, then plan ahead and put in the supports before. Or hang the item on an interior wall.
Thanks.....Also your free land is extremely accurate.....Buying a piece of land with an existing home and dividing the land into different plats is exactly my plan.
For the 7th part. Conventional concrete uses cement as the binding agent. Cement goes trough a process called hydration. This means, in order to form the crystal structure cement needs water. Approximately in a 0,3 water to cement ratio ( measured in weight). Without proper moisture content cement cannot cure, nor harden. Concrete can cure and harden even underwater. Please take these informations into consideration. Concrete structures should not be dried out, they are to be kept moist for the end of the hardening process, or at least for the first 5-7 days.
One of my issues was, is that I have had exposed ICF for a few years and now and because of the concrete setting, it has pushed out the icf blocks out slightly and some gaps have formed and we have had water ingress into the two bedrooms at the back. So, this year, I am going to waterproof my icf construction totally prior to putting on external wall insulation. Bar that - they are great but all the points made in the video are valid.
What type of HVAC systems do you put in ICF Homes? Not sure where your located. Forced air furnace and a/c,? and/or air exchange systems or different add on are recommended for them dehumidifier/humidifiers?? Thanks
@@Couchlover47 Watch my video on how much my geothermal system cost. I was able to get the price down to the equivalent of an average heat pump system.
I live in the southern US and was considering having a built in dehumidifier just for climate purposes do you think that unit would be sufficient for also controlling the humidity from the curing process?
For any tight house, you need a ventilation system to exchange stale inside air with fresh exterior air. If you get an ERV system, then that will dehumidify your inside air as part of the air exchange process.
Whom did you get your ICF from? I've seen a lot of stuff on the web from Fox blocks but...I'm not sure whom would have great support/service. Any advice?
My blocks were from BuildBlock and I bought directly from them. I liked their block design and a manufacturing facility wasn't too far away, meaning the shipping was too bad.
Actually, I mention the water proofing in some of my other videos. We don't have any HRV or ERV within the house. They were just too expensive at the time we were building. We just went with 4" fresh air lines for each of my geothermal units.
I watch you build ICF and I have questions. If you don't answer me I understand. I am attaching my pool plans so you can refer to what I'm doing. I'm building a swimming pool jacuzzi love seat and tanning deck within a 22' X40' ICCF swimming pool that will be heated year around. 1. Can I just dig a rectangular hole in my ground and fill with rock to achieve my 3' 6' 3' play pool or does my ground need to match what depths I'm trying to achieve in a play pool flooring foundation? 2. I'm using 10" perfect Blocks for the perimeter walls of the pool. The back wall above the pool line will be a 5' wall above ground attached to the pool wall. For the perimeter walls foundation do I want to use Fab Form, Fast Foot, Foothold, or Form a Drain for my Foundation? The inert walls will be either 6" or 8" perfect Blocks or should I Gunite the interior with Rebar and Gunite? 3. I was originally going to use Amvic Icf form and litedeck for the pool flooring, now I want Perfect Blocks as they seem easier and built in the US. what icf can I use for the pool flooring as I was going to have radiant floor heating? 4. Can I use an high density insulation sheathing for the pool floor as this is where all the heat escapes? 5. I am doing most of the work myself, I'm on a budget and like to do DIY stuff. But this is a huge project and I'm frightened. LOL. 6. I will be using Pebble Tec for the pool finish. I hope you can help and look forward to your input.
I've never built a pool with ICF, but I've done a lot of research on it. Here's my take to your questions: 1. Make sure your footings are all on virgin soil. The rest can be filled with rock. 2. I would pour the pool slab and footings monolithically and avoid all of those footing products. Just pile rock at the outer edge of your pour against 2x4 forms. 3 & 4. Use rigid foam rated at a minimum of 25 psi under your slab. You can passively heat the pool as well if the tubes are also run within the concrete walk/patio surrounding the pool with a small pump circulating it. These walks get incredibly hot when the sun shines on them. Hope this helps!
I am trying to find information on how do I screw something into walls once construction is done. (cabinet, storage plank, etc...) There are no beams, no information anywhere.
The plastic strips provide some level of hanging. But if you are going to hang a large, heavy object, you need to remove a section of the foam and attach a 2x4 directly to the concrete. Then attach the object to the 2x4.
@@Challenged1 Oh my god, 10 X thanks!!! It is a townhouse group. All the walls/finishing will be completed when I move in :( . Do yu know if a "beam finder" will be able to detect these plactic strips? Thanks again for the info!!!
@@Challenged1 you have no idea, 2000 X thanks fr that info!!!! Been searchig/reading quite a long time t fnd that info!!! No inf available!!! Thanks again!!!
i've been wanting an icf house forever, but i'm in central ohio and have never found a builder that uses this technology. considering that this seems to be so much better than traditional "stick" building, i'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be much demand for it.
@@Challenged1 that's lucky. i'v been looking here for years - but nothing. i hate to go through all the effort of building, and not build what i really want. maybe i'll just have to move to an area where this is more prevalent when the time comes!
Jeff, I've been determined to do icf for several years. Call a few of the manufacturers including build block and they'll get you in touch with experienced people
Where in Ohio are you located? I am thinking of becoming a ICF contractor, also have you called nudura and asked if they have a contractor in your area.
@@chptech my neighbor is a builder and has now recently used ICF. He says it is not rocket science. Our Amish community uses it all the time and often DIY. I imagine the Amish builders around us do it also.
Interesting Video very informative. In the UK / Europe we have wood create Block. Made from modified recycled timber so that it is inert/ does burn/ has absolutely no food value for any insects / termites /rodents etc they are completely water proof so you could build a pool with them with no need to line it expect for aesthetics, no need to clad or render the outside of the building except for aesthetics or to comply with local planning legislation. the inside face can be chased out for cable or pipe work to the depth of the block about 40mm / 1 3/4", you can plaster directly onto them and as the insulation is on the external face, but within the block so the concrete structure for a massive thermal mass which help enormously to maintain constant internal temperatures summer and winter. We've built several houses with these and had no issues at all could your concrete have been a little to wet ? ordinarily about 50% of concretes water content is consumed during the curing process.
This is interesting. I've seen some videos with people making walls out of concrete mixed with regular saw dust. I wonder how manufacturers of woodcrete blocks are modifying wood used in them?
Could you educate me on the difference between ICF and UPS concrete construction? I am seeing good things from the UPS forms and they seem stronger and less expensive than ICF but it is also hard to find information on the UPS concrete homes.
I didn't, one of the things that got cut as the costs of the build went up. I may install one retroactively though as I think the price has dropped since the last time I looked. To tell you the truth, enough time has gone by now that any excess moisture in the walls dried up and the humidity levels dropped.
@@Challenged1 That's surprising to me actually, as ICF is intrinsically extremely air tight, and getting fresh air in and stale air out without using an ERV/HRV seems like a near requirement. Unless you're in a climate where your windows are always open or something. They're not very expensive either unless you splurge on a zehnder - a renewaire is like 1-1.5k.
@@Challenged1 Renewaire Premium L is the best for the money that I've found for largerish houses, but some calculations should be done via ASHRAE 62.2 depending on square footage of house. HVI has CFM and efficiency ratings for all of them. Small houses can do well with Panasonic ERV for example. Dedicated ERV ducting is best, but will probably be difficult to put in if wasn't included at construction time. Bathrooms and kitchens are exhaust, and bedrooms/livings are supply, typically in such a case. Hooking it up to existing ducting retrofit style is not ideal, but I'd say still better than no ERV at all.
Awesome advice , my main concern was moisture behind finished drywall from inside ...? ? How do you know after a few years there isn’t a lot of mold build up behind the drywall. ? ? Thx
@@Challenged1 Mold needs food to live and that food is carbon based. There is no carbon in concrete (at least there shouldn't be but every so often, there might be a bit of coal in the aggregate), the ICFs or the drywall; mold cannot grow inside the wall without food.
@@elliottdiedrich2123 According to this, if you spray foam your house and then put Batt insulation over it, you shouldn't have mold, but it still happens. A lot of these "new" technologies are fairly unproven for the long term and a whole lot of them are failing. I'm wondering how long it's going to be until the glue starts failing on all these composite beams people are using to build their houses.
Good, but for the last. Concrete hydrates and the water in the mix remain in the wall for ever. The moisture in your house is more likely due to its air tightness .
Not all of the water used in concrete is hydrated. A certain amount of extra water is added to improve the workability, called "water of convenience", but at the cost of strength. Water reducers are sometimes used, though they probably add more than a trivial amount to the price. I do not know how much extra a yard³ of c-crete with water reducer would cost. If airtightness was the culprit, the humidity would always be high.
Would you say that the two years of construction was driven by the size of your home? I am curious if smaller homes ~2000sqft would take 1/3 of the time or if there is some economies of scale with a larger build and there are parts of the process that will take the same amount of time no matter the size.
Yes!!! I would say the time would definitely reduce, but not quite proportionately. The limiting factor in this whole things was me. I quickly realized I only had so much energy to expend each day before I was exhausted. Plus, the amount of help you think you will get from others on your project is significantly less than you plan for.
@@Challenged1 That is great to know, thank you! I am very interested in applying what I have started to learn with your content in a more urban context, so much smaller lots, smaller homes, and hopefully smaller timelines! haha I'm full of questions over here, but did you look into an ICF roof for your home? It seems like ICF roofs are still a much more specialized building method.
@@Challenged1 makes sense, thank you! Again, thanks for posting your content, I have been able to learn a lot from you on topics that would otherwise take several sources and much more time to compile!
What purpose would the weep holes serve? No water would weep from them. Allowing concrete to cure for an extended period of time makes the concrete stronger.
You mentioned elsewhere you built load-bearing interior walls in lieu of support columns. What kind of wall are those? Not ICF kind, I suppose? Could you elaborate?
PACIFIC ICF supplies AMVIC ICF in British Columbia and I understand some of your negative comments but those are quite a stretch from reality. ICF now is priced at 50% less cost than forming with plywood. And its already insulated. We also sell an R-30 block which is 3.3" think and meets the code for the nest decade or more when we need to have 32 walls. ICF is fast to install, not much stripping time, not much bracing material. Plans are easily made with ICF in mind ( thickness) Penetrations should be made prior to pour , stick a conduit through the wall for pipes, wires or vents/ducts In cold climates plumbing cannot be located in exterior walls, bring your water lines to a kitchen sink through the floor instead. Use poly electrical boxes not metal boxes, screw that flange to an ICF web, channel foam with electric chainsaw ( 2.5") No rain screen nor building paper, housewrap required Any cladding can be installed For stone facing or brick a special shaped "brickledge" ICF block is made. Drywall sheets apply directly to the interior side of ICF, screw into webs 6-8" apart, less cutting , less waste ICF is quiet Various brands have drawbacks, some are reversible, less waste, some are stronger than others and some have less insulation ability Bill PACIFIC ICF
I built 3 ICF houses (Blue Max then Arxx) in 1999/2001. I had moisture issues but I installed UltimateAir/RecoupAerators (ERV) manufactured in USA, Athens Ohio. Moisture was never an issue. When I ran electric, we used Carlton device boxes that had a side flange (shallow version with the appropriate cubic inches - code) which were then screwed to the webs. Snapped a chalk line horizontally, above and below the space in the webbing where the blocks met, about 2”, used an old junky old circular saw (after changing the depth of the blade), then used a pry bar to remove the foam. Then, ran romex and used pieces of the foam to hold the wire in place. I did end up installing a sub panel on the 2nd floor. At that time it was cheaper but with the new electric code (expensive breakers), it may not be now. As far as accommodating penetrations, it’s all about the planning. PVC (using appropriate size of course) used for chases. LVL’s, PSL’s, LSL’s for the floor/ceiling all specified by an engineer who approached the job as if it were conventionally built (stick). And the cost reflected it. It was soooo over engineered it was ridiculous and I ALWAYS tend to overdo things anyway. The TGI’s were 12” OC (25’ long x 14” - maybe 16” if I’m remembering correctly - it was so long ago). The 1st floor was so stiff, it was ridiculous. I think code allows maximum deflection of 320 and these floors were over 800 on the first floor. I did some research, confirmed my findings with another structural engineer (NOT associated with the supplier) and installed the remaining TGI’s 16” OC. In the areas of the house where there was ‘live’ tile was called out (marble/granite), a bed of mortar followed by concrete board installed which allowed for the appropriate stiffness. Used scissor roof trusses raised heel allowing for fiberglass installation at the eave (gable roof). One house used fiberglass, another Icynene under the roof deck and on the last house I used SIP panels. Now THAT was an interesting roof. I decided to felt the SIP’s, then ran 2x4’s flat, installed OSB which was then covered entirely with IWS, continuous ridge (Snow Country) vent using GAF/Slateline shingles. The ‘sub-facia’ and soffit had the same 2x4 application and then the final finished trim was installed. Yes - the houses were extraordinary/bizarrely quiet. I would defiantly build another house for myself except I would seriously look into using ICF for the roof. Storing the blocks were not a problem. They were factory wrapped in bundles and were easy to move as well (as noted in a previous REPLY). In the kitchen, I used 3/4” ply on the walls to facilitate cabinet installation. Required installation of plaster rings (at least that’s what we call the metal bands that are applied on top of the device boxes, 1/4”, 1/2”, 3/4”....whatever) to accommodate the extra depth resulting from the ply and drywall for the outlets/switches. The main issues I had were dealing with HVAC contractors who did not know how to size the heating/cooling systems correctly and did not know how to handle the installation of the ERV’s. Stirling stepped up to the plate. Now I would use mini-splits and a hybrid hot water tank or the SANDEN (I used Takagi tankless, the only game in town in the late 90’s). Oh yeah, the other MAJOR issue I had to deal with in the building trades when I wanted to use something different like ICF’s, tankless, SIPS, plumbing, were the guys who would say stuff like: “why honey, why would you want to use THAT? We’ve always done it this way”. Seriously....HONEY????? And technology marches on. Stick building a house is like buying a car and having it delivered to your driveway. In pieces.
@@janice180 Use an electric chain saw with depth guide so as not to hit concrete for electrical wiring. Chain saw is the same size as the wire. Make a vertical slot not in the ICF webs (studs), horizontals cuts should be at top of a block where there might be no rigid web plastic. Seal wire in slot with spray foam to gain original R value. Pentrations are made with conduits or vent sized pipes as required in any case. Chop off the the conduit with a long recip blade at the surface of the concrete, then run the wire chases , install a poly electrical box onto a web with screws, make a credit card sized hole for the box to insert. Use 1 5/8" drywall screws Bill Pacific ICF
Yeah, chain saw is a good idea but I don’t have one. And I love tools but have not had a reason to purchase one so I just pulled out an old crappy circular saw for the job. I didn’t have to worry about cutting out the webs cause the webs in ARXX did not run from the top to bottom. There was foam only about an inch and a half at the top and bottom which was what I cut out. Outlets/switches/etc: I actually used a hot knife that was modified with a ‘custom’ wire that I used to cut out the foam. In some areas, I just used a jab saw to cut out the ICF block to accommodate the device boxes, push the cut out block into the ICF cavity then spray foamed it in place. When I made chases (various sized of PVC), I just let it stick out of the walls till I was ready to use it. Then I cut it off.
@@janice180 Amvic makes a good block, webs every 6" and no web right where two block lock together, so the chain saw could go sideways in foam if it had to. Lots of web to screw into also, some blocks don't have full height web ( studs) so how does one apply screws for drywall or siding ??? www.amvicsystem.com
You made a comment about being taxed, measuring at home square footage from outside of wall to outside of wall. I don't believe that's the case the actual building code IBC states square footage is measured from the inside of the outside wall. But You may be right for your jurisdiction I'm just going off of what the building code status square footage, being an architect measure square footage for clients all the time not residential commercial maybe the jurisdiction you're in has modified the code
Most contractors are not storing the bulk material for biuld a house they order it when they get job and store the material on the job site things like windows doors plumbing and electrical are figure out when building plans are created that is why biuld plans cost so much icf is sopst to be faster even doing diy seeing the change in color how long did it take u to go frome first form down before u put roof and siding on and tell people that it didn't harm the scf it chaging color but had to wipe it off to get the water barrier to stick that would be a sine that it was damaged not stuckter but if it was flakey that means every spot u hand to rub that off for the membrane to stick that changed its r rating
When buildings with ICF you should always use a fresh air return system in conjunction with your HVAC system. That alleviates the moisture and stale air problems that can otherwise pop up. Dryer vents should actually be located in exterior walls where possible. Using a schedule 40 pipe as a conduit through the ICF forms for all utilities and other penetrations is industry standard for ICF construction. Also the manufacturer of most dryers say that venting more than 8 feet can void the warranty.
The moisture problem described might be from condensation, not concrete curing, in which case it might be seasonal (which is why he didn't see it later on). But thick concrete does take a very long time to fully cure even after it appears dry to the touch.
Only thing that would worry me the most is moisture, but we don't have ICF factory (and other product factory needed for building process) in my country (Croatia ), witch is shame. It would make building way easier and faster. Tehnology has come a long way, so only thing you need is sewer, and water lines, rest can work by eletricity that can be produced by solar tiles, and stored in batteries.
If you ever moved and placed a Symons panel around to pour concrete you would not put in a complaint about a foam form. Cripes that is a really big whine for nothing.
I don't know who you worked with. My friend sells icf and he helps set up house plains. Brings out what you need at the time. He will go out to the sight and help at the beginning and help with trouble shooting. The icf bundles doesn't weight 80lbs, at least his. So maybe people need to check around before you by icf from just one person.
The worst part is the foam beads, from cutting and channeling. It never breaks down, and may end in water ways over time. It’s often mentioned by home owners as a concern. One person mentioned termite protection. I’m still not sure of a better building product. Cheers from Oz
@@Challenged1 Long dryer vents runs are to be avoided, they are a lint fire hazard. In a long vertical run, moisture will condense within the vent pipe, more so in the winter. That leads to excessive lint accumulation and thus a fire hazard. Not to mention the problem of keeping wind driven rain water from being directed into your dryer, an electrical fire hazard. Ask any code enforcement inspector if dryer vents going through the roof are legal. The solution to dryer vents,along with any other kind of penetration, in ICF walls is to plan ahead for the dryer location before the concrete pour.
A 2" x 6" wood-frame home with exterior 2" Zip system and mineral wool wall insulation would have provided as much or more insulation factor for your home and it probably would have been cheaper. It also is much faster to build. However for your basement area, the ICF blocks are a much better choice. A 2" x 6" framed home is also much cheaper than using concrete walls. Again, concrete walls are the best choice for your basement. But above grade, well-built 2"x 6" homes are amazingly energy efficient, solid and cost-effective.
@@Challenged1 I like the ICF concept but they have one inherent serious flaw. Termites, rodents and other pests can get into the foam and create nests. This is especially concerning for termites because in some states, termite companies will not treat a home that has ICF insulation on the exterior. This is a critical flaw because termites could work their way to the interior walls and trusses which are made of wood. While this is true for all homes, ICF termite infestations are hidden.. Here in AZ where I live, codes require a minimum 4" tall exposed section of the concrete stemwalls on homes. This is because the vast majority of termite tubes are formed on the outside of the stemwalls. Termite inspectors are trained to look for termite tubes that extend up the house's stemwall to find the points where termites are entering the home. While termites can occasionally get under the slab and gain access to the house through a crack, this is pretty rare in most cases. With ICF blocks, there is now an easy way to see where termites are entering the home because they are burrowing through the foam insulation. It is my understanding that some manufacturers have started adding borate and other termiticides to their foam mixtures, but that still doesn't eliminate the problem of mice, rodents and other insects burrowing into the foam. I am planning on building a guesthouse in my backyard and the main house has had problems with termite attacks. To eliminate this problem, I will be installing a concrete block basement foundation that his solid grouted and I will use a waterproofing coating over the underground blocks. I will also install permanent holes in the basement foundation fitted with non-rusting cylinders that have metal caps. Termite companies will be able to screw the caps off and inject termiticide all along the edge of the exterior CMU walls through the metal tubes. This will make it possible for me to treat the building easily if I choose to do so. All interior walls on the first floor will be made of LVL studs and plates, which are highly resistant to termites, and I will use pressure-treated bottom plates. This should eliminate any wood that the termites ill be interested in eating in the basement. I will frame the interior wood walls with an air gap from the CMU block and insulate the walls. I plan on using a 12" wide block, so the thermal mass of the block should be sufficient to resist the intense summer heat we deal with when coupled with the insulated 2" x 4" walls. The first and second-floor exterior walls will also be 12" x 16" solid grouted block, primarily for noise Isolation and insulation purposes. On the first floor, I will again use termite-resistant lumber. Only when I get to the second floor will I use regular lumber. The cost to use this system will be much more than a wood frame 2" x 6" structure with a stucco exterior, which is the most common design used here, but it will be incredibly well-insulated from hot and cold weather, nearly soundproof, and highly resistant to termite attacks. I am a civil engineer with a general contractor's license, and I thought you might be interested in the design I have come up with to deal with the challenges that AZ homes face. I enjoyed your videos. Thanks for your reply.
@@franklong6269 It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into you design. I agree, the termite issue is a problem, although not an insurmountable one. We have the same background!!! Very cool!
Do you recommend to build home by home owner from wood ??? I do not recommend to build home by home owner either to from wood or ICF maybe you do not have enough experience with icf blocks. There is no better products but icf block to build you own home . We are building with icf in Massachusetts for years and people are love it
The information you gained (and now sharing) from actually living in an ICF house are golden. Of all the ICF videos i've seen, not one mentioned moisture issues and to consider wet-rated outlets/switches on the icf wall. Thanks for sharing!
I'm glad to help. Just yesterday, I was installing some additional cabinets and had to move a plug up a couple inches, which meant I had to remove a little of the foam. The concrete behind the foam that I removed was bone dry. The good news is, the concrete does seem to dry out over time and the moisture issue goes away. At this point, it's been about 3.5 years. Just a little more data for you to absorb.
Any tightly built home needs an air handler system.
I would not call those things Drawbacks. They are part of the Tip & Trick of Beat Practices with ICF. Everything is a problem if you don’t know about it.
Exactly
This is a great video! I am planning on building an ICF house and doing the plans on my own, starting with an ICF wall design. Your points about wall penetrations are very good. As another wise viewer mentioned, it is probably a good idea to add a few extra electrical penetrations and cap them off with unglued PVC pipes and caps. In ICF, measure twice cut once may not be enough. I'm thinking of measure four times then have someone else check it before finalizing the window and door bucking! Your discussion about moisture was new to me in my review of ICF construction. I am curious if many others have had similar issues with moisture. Overall, you make a lot of really good points and I really appreciate the information.
Why not go with full foam build from sabs international, way more simple.
Those are all very good points. We have been in our ICF rancher for almost three years in Canada. We still run a dehumidifier in our 4' crawlspace. Don't build a crawlspace thinking you will use it for root vegetable storage. It stays too warm. We didn't put siding on until this past summer. If you're building an ICF house yourself, finish the outside before you begin the interior. Doing exterior finishes after that fine yellow powder has formed is a TOTAL pain. We put HardiePlank on our house. It's a little more involved than putting it on a wood framed house but it is doable. We decided that everything considered, we would build ICF again. It's quiet, energy efficient, and we know it's strong. We gave away our air conditioners because the house stays cool and it's very easy to heat. We live in an area where the temperatures in the summer are over 100F and well below zero in winter. During construction, the house stayed quite warm overnight without heat on. Do check into house insurance before you build though. Many insurance companies have very little experience with ICF. Most refused to insure us and some didn't know how to classify the house. Others wanted exorbitant premiums. It's a great product to build with all in all.
Excellent points!!!
Can I ask? How about fire codes is it comply with the safety codes of Canada? Am wondering this foam layer is fire rated at all ?
@@Fuder95Ibra Yes, ICF meets the building code requirements in Canada. The drywall, plywood, or whatever finish wallboard you put over it will keep fumes out long enough for you to escape.
@@crystalwright1504 so at end of the day we have encapsulation after the building is over, with materials that comply with the required FRR of the NBC?
@@Fuder95Ibra The ICF fully meets the NBC for strength, fire rating, etc. But yes, you would cover both inside and outside with other materials. For instance, we used fibrous cement board siding on the outside and plywood on the inside. Most people would use drywall.
Excellent video. Thanks for the info... definitely gonna put a lotta thought into it before we begin construction.👍🏾
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Yep, the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks, especially if you plan for ICF from the beginning...
We had ours built a were fortunate to find local guys that specialized in it
Really good summary of ICF issues. I would add a couple of comments or clariiers:
1. We actually found moving the blocks to be quite easy. The individual blocks weight very little and moving a bundle is fairly easy - two long 2x4s and two people can move them with ease. I do see your point for the second story. But again- a little help and they can be easily moved.
2. Great comment about penetrations - I have an outside door where I would like to have a light. The idea of drilling through 7” of reinforced concrete has kept me from putting a light there so far. Recommend you develop a “penetration plan” and have someone check it. Also consider going to a home that has been completed and think about the penetrations- think about HVAC drains, power to outside lighting, power to an outbuilding, consider a couple of “spare penetrations” for future electrical.
3. The walls are think but one great thing this gives you is nice shelves on the inside- every room in our home has taken advantage of this. Really nice for decorating at Christmas.
4. Great suggestion about interior walls - we did this as much as we could - made construction much easier.
5. We have had zero issues with humidity - we built “slab on grade” which may be the difference- the other thing we did was to use all mini-splits for HVAC which we have set to specifically remove the humidity.
One thing we were warned about is that HVAC installers will oversize the HVAC- this is so true. Even after being very clear about how much more efficient the house is our HVAC guy still oversized the HVAC by 30%. Recommend you install a Direct Vent gas fire place. These are very efficient and heat the downstairs of our home very well. Our typical electric bill is under $200 a month even in the heat of the summer and the coldest part of the winter- and we have 5000ft2
In ICF houses central air is not your friend,. there is no way to size the ac unit exactly based on heat loads that may or may not happen for each year. Mini Splits are your friend because you can over size them by a larger factor. Depending on the model you get can range from x amount to x amount. So a room that requires 5k btu you can over size it to 24k btu if the minimum cooling is 5k btu. You will have to contact the manufacture to get this information. Over sizing your mini split will help in many ways by maintaining the temp set all the time while still having enough cooling power to remove moisture and unexpected heat loads.
What was cost like? Thinking about building. Was considering ICF?
@@Taskarnin built for $80.00/sq ft. Did some work ourselves- some painting and some interior trim- oh and did the majority of the ICF work which turned out to be the easiest and most enjoyable part of the project. ICF is extremely easy to work with. Also did most of final plumbing.
We have been in the house for 6 years now. Even more happy than when we first built. Very low electric bills, house is very low maintenance and it feels incredibly solid.
@@Taskarnin built for $80/sqft- we did some work ourselves. We did stack the ICF block which turned out to be very easy. Did some paint and interior trim.
@@kameljoe21 Radiant floor heating/cooling.
or air through floor.
Wish I would’ve known about using a dehumidifier on our basement. We moved in and within a month everything downstairs was covered in mold . With that said we now have a dehumidifier and have had no problems and love the energy efficiency. Thanks for the video very helpful!
My old man just mentioned this to me after I started researching ICF. Glad I found this.
We had no problems with our house. Have a walk out basement so maybe that helped.
Where is the moisture coming from? We put a vapor barrier under the slab, and exterior waterproofing and footing drain around the outside, basement is bone dry…
@@rronmar The moisture came from the concrete curing and the ambient humidity .
@@htschad9685 i would blame ambient humidity first. High humidity would slow the cc drying, but it should have been at least to the level of the surrounding humidity before the house build was complete.
Excellent video, so important for owners and builders
Great video! I've just started looking into ICF construction and this is the first video that I've seen that deals with what I would call the aftermath. Not that the end product is negative, it's just dealing with an building with a long curing stage that a lot of home owners are not aware of.
Glad to help
@@Challenged1 How long does it take to cure, and fully remove the moisture?
@@jasonbourne1596 For me, it took about 2 years for the humidity to stabilize.
We had no moisture problems with our house and though it is tight no mold or mildew basement or anywhere else.
House is ICF glad I went this route, learned a lot from the build and wish I could do it over again like any house you build would make changes. Did the plans myself, cost 0, super energy efficient, mouse proof telehandler was great for a lot of the work. Storing outside for short period not a problem. Contractor screwed up windows on second level, had to use concrecte chain saw to fix after pour. Would have put more penetrations in the the walls. Windows were a challenge. Cut runs for wires with a electric chain saw, no plumbing in outside walls. Dehumdifiers usefull.
Plumbing in outside walls is fine if you add an interior wood-framed plumbing wall. This will make the window areas 16" deep. That's perfect for a house plant.
I needed to hear about these concerns. There is a lot about the prose of ICF. Finding an experienced ICF contractor is another important part because there are intricacies that need attention to detail. We are planning an ICF basement only, and on top a stick build with Zip R sheathing, insulation on the outside of the studs for thermal bridging issues. That way there are more options possibly later on should one want to add a window or make structural changes. It is amazing what outer insulation you can put on a home sitting on an icf basement foundation now a day, even here in Eastern Canada, Atlantic region. Thank you for this matter a fact and considerations to think about. 👍 🙏 🇨🇦
Thanks for the comment
Did you succeed in doing this? We are trying to decide whether to do just as you describe (ICF basement and 2x6 zip R sheathing for upper floors-or all ICF). Wondering which is best and if you are glad you approached it half and half?
@@Karen-rx9xo Update: The concern is on going with finding here on Prince Edward Island an experienced contractor to do a full ICF home. Navigating to find an ICF company, contractor, for the basement is a challenge in itself, here on Prince Edward Island. The decision is to do basement only in ICF. Lack of confidence in skilled ICF workmanship here on PEI combined with wanting options in a 2.6 stick build for upper floors were the 2 and only considerations to the final decision. Its very difficult here on Prince Edward Island to trust building, contractors, here. The workmanship in what we observed in viewing homes being built, and talking to new home owners who went through the stress of dealing with the labour building force here is disappointing. The plans are ICF basement with 2.6 stick build on top. :)
Thanks for the great video. I built my first full ICF home a couple of years back. I designed the house for ICF so during the design phase we thought through many of the issues you mentioned. I used Nudura, their blocks fold down so I didn't have the storage issue. They shipped it factory direct in a full semi trailer. I also didn't have any of the moisture issues that you referred to either, mind you we have a fresh air exchange system so perhaps that alleviated that.
We did come to the same conclusion though, I would never build a home any other way. We have hot summers and cold winters and heating (radiant) and cooling (HP AC) is a breeze.
Awesome deal. Thanks for sharing
Mind doing a tour video?
@@EATSLEEPJD That's a great idea... I have lots of photo's... I'll string something together.
@@shawncolemusic thanks. subscribed. i'l wait for the video :)
@@EATSLEEPJD I guess he never posted it.
TIP: Remove that yellow powdery layer of sun-aged ICF by pressure washing with a wide-spray head.
Works well Handeeman did it on his Arizona ICF build... super fast & simple. Done in 30 minutes!
Great Tip!!!
We ran 2 industrial-sized dehumidifiers after walls and roof were up but before any drywall etc was installed. This quickly dried out my full ICF home after most of the water outgassed we finished the interior this works better than drying when sheet rocks ups.
How long did it take to dry before drywall put up?, what time of year, what climate zone?
How long was it before you got to drywall the interior? Thanks
@@zebrabuzz Was 15 years ago think the better part of a week. Was summer time and S WI is humid.
I spent ten years building ICF here in the UK, I think is a great way to build. Most of his points were valid however I think it’s worth it for the type of structure you end up with, although I will say changing your plans to suit the blocks is useful but defiantly not essential. I would definitely recommend a heat recovery system as the wall are so air tight without it you could end up with a moisture problem.
I completely agree!!!
I agree with you that one should not try to run a dryer vent up an ICF exterior wall. However, I recommend you run your dryer vents horizontally, straight THROUGH your exterior wall. This will cause less bends and ductwork where lint can gather and clog up your vent. Keep it short, straight and simple. This way, you can reach into the wall duct and clean it out by hand, rather than hiring a pro. Also, you'll need make up air coming into the home to allow good air flow out the vents. He mentioned this fresh air intake penetration in the video.
Hello. Great video !!! Helps me a lot. Could you telo me the name of the primer you use on the external wall? Is that a pink One ? I am In Brazil and need to know the name of the Brand .
Tamko TWP-2
Thanks! Interesting comment about residual moisture. We just did 3 buildings with foam-outside concrete-inside, and had no noticeable residual moisture - in fact they all seemed particularly dry. In these cases the concrete water content was very low, and the concrete is exposed to the interior.
Makes sense
@@Challenged1 Forgot to include that the footings etc are all insulated from thermal/moisture contact with earth.
Just Subbed🤗This is a very informative video and has opened my eyes but, has not deterred me from utilizing ICF. You explained everything perfectly,TFS💯
I’m really glad I found your channel. I’m looking into building my first/forever home rather than buying, but am not at all jazzed about building with lumber framing.
Really great information here from someone who’s worked with ICF! It seems like it requires a lot more careful planning than lumber framing or even steel, but I think I’d much prefer this for the energy efficiency and strength.
You won't regret building with and then living with in an ICF home
Hey Garrett, really appreciate your video especially about the moisture. We are in Australia and in an area which sounds like it has similar temp to Kansas. Extreme heat during summer and freezing cold during winter. My husband and I have been building our ICF house for the last 5 years we have just moved into half of the house, the bedrooms just before Christmas and I've been finding it difficult to breathe and found it quite stuffy. We did notice the humidity levels are very high and so after seeing your video it makes so much sense what is going on. We will definitely invest in some dehumidifiers. What are your thoughts on L size for the bedrooms? Also, are you still using them?
My humidity levels have dropped more to a normal level (It took 2-3 years from the date we filled the walls with concrete). I definitely still require dehumidifiers during the summer though, as would be usual for any house during the summer in Kansas. It just gets humid during the late spring, summer and early fall.
@@Challenged1 thank you, I really appreciate your response and helpful tips. Thanks
ICF houses are very tight, so you need a ventilation system to bring in fresh air and expel stale inside air. In the meantime, cracking your windows would certainly help.
What would happen if you lined the interior side of the ICF walls with a sealed moisture barrier like visqueen?
Good question
We had a brand new Blue Max Home Built as a test market in KC in 1999 this was new to builders....so our home was built as the same price as a stick frame! It withstands hurricane force winds! We did however had a built in Air Filteration system installed due to the very little air flow however utilities are so low!! Its still performing above standards!
Very cool
Helpful advice. Most of what you say is about project management rather than a fault with the ICF blocks. ie proper design and good site management are key. Helpful tips non the less.
When building plans are drawn for ICF there should be no additional design costs. They force more pre-thinking about the design but that has to be a good thing as design changes during the build always cost money.
@@Dave5843-d9m Building houses or buildings in general, the things you mentioned are common things to do with any project. In my experience, when designs are changed it means someone has to do it and they are paid. Any design changes typically incour a charge and that is normal. To me it sounds like you have a issue with them because of your lack of preporation or planning. There can be unforseen things and someone with experience will know what to do but the concerns you discussed are fairly basic preplanning. I was expecting something major but this is basic stuff for most any major building project unless you are very inexperienced and then this is a project you shouldn't be doing.
Did you consider using Helix micro rebar? Why or why not?
Not at the time. Just didn't know anything about it back then
The humidity question is really interesting, thanks!!
Thanks for the heads up on the moisture!
Question: I have a 6,762 sq ft 2-story ICF and now working on HVAC for it. I’d entertained Geothermal but common power outages makes me hesitant. I’m interested in knowing the size and quantity of HVAC systems people with ICF use, lessons learned, etc. recommendations. Thanks
My guess would be around 6 tons needed in your house.
Thanks for posting.....Great content....I'm building my own ICF home next year. Just curious why no dryer vent on exterior wall? What problems have you discovered? Thanks for the information.
Thanks for the comment. I ran my dryer vent to the roof. I suppose if you clear enough foam around the dryer vent, you could run one thru. Since the dyers get so hot, I was afraid of the foam melting or off-gassing near the vent as it heated up. I suppose it is personal preference. Other than the moisture, I can't think of any other ICF problems I've had since I finished.
ua-cam.com/video/hzZVMwxEE2M/v-deo.html
Фундамент под каркасный дом 👍👍👍🇷🇺
We ran our dryer vent through the exterior wall. After three years, we haven't had any issues. We just did siding so we were able to see the foam clealy. It was a bit of a pain putting HardiePlank around things that come through the walls though. My husband didn't want to saw holes through the center of a plank especially if it had to be split over two rows of siding. There are only ties that the siding can be screwed to every 8" and Hardie is required to be anchored no more than 5" from the cut end of the plank. Less is better. If you put your items too far from a tie, you need to cut your siding short(ending it near the tie that's closest) and use a wood board or something similar that spans across your ties on either side of your dryer vent, electrical box, etc with a cutout for it to come through. It's not always going to end up looking symmetrical. It would have been much easier had we placed those items closer to the vertical ties in the block. Good luck with your build!! It's a very easy system to learn to build. FoxBlocks has a great video series with very helpful tips that would likely apply to any brand of blocks.
I've been on a barndaminium kick for a future build. I like the idea of icf though too. I think both appear to benefit from hydronic heat in the slab. I'm assuming you did that? The only draw back I see with icf is keeping mice out of the foam. I know it could be flashed with tin, but what did you use?
Could I put all the pipes & pipe conduit for the electric in the wall as i stack the blocks? So the electric will be in the concrete.
If your building codes allow it, I don't see why not.
What brand is your shop. I noticed the steel main frame.
I bought the trusses used. They used to be from a chicken house
O8:05 Long dryer vents runs, especially long vertical runs, are to be avoided.
They are a lint fire hazard.
In a long vertical run, moisture will condense within the vent pipe, more so in the winter. That leads to excessive lint accumulation and thus a fire hazard.
Not to mention the problem of keeping wind driven rain water from being directed into your dryer, an electrical fire hazard.
Ask any code enforcement inspector if dryer vents going through the roof are legal. The solution to dryer vents,along with any other kind of penetration, in ICF walls is to plan ahead for the dryer location before the concrete pour.
Code allows dryer vents through the roof, and so do the inspectors. They do also require the vent be insulated
I planned mine for very short venting runs.
I'm considering about using icf for my home in the Philippines 🇵🇭 a very humid country my home will be above grade on footer...would you be concerned with the humidity issue as you describe and would a dehumidifier be your soultion?
The humidity will lower over time, but a dehumidifier as well as fresh air supply will be mandatory though. These ICF homes are tight
@@Challenged1 ty merry Xmas brother.
@@gordonramsey8866 Merry Christmas to you
when it comes to strength and durability would you suggest icf floor system or traditional poured concrete or hollow core slabs
Any of those options would be great. Would probably lean toward the ICF floor system though.
#8, if not carefully built mice and rodents will make a maze in the foam insulation behind the siding and make their way into the house.
#9, putting up heavy objects inside the house (on the exterior wall) is a PITA. Especially trying to determine where the electrical and "spines" are located. In most cases you have to put anchor bolts in the concrete for heavier items. Professional installation may be required if hanging a 110" TV, etc.
#8 - as with any type of construction, you need to seal holes/access to prevent rodents/insects from getting into things. However, rodents/insects will have a very hard time getting through the concrete. I would recommend either a cement board type of siding, or stone/brick veneer.
#9 - ICF homes need planned out in detail, like all homes, but the cost/pain to make changes after is more. In theory, shouldn't a stud finder find the spines, after all they are metal. Otherwise, you may have to drill into the concrete, which while a pain, isn't that big of a deal. But once again, if you know you will be hanging heavy items, then plan ahead and put in the supports before. Or hang the item on an interior wall.
Thanks.....Also your free land is extremely accurate.....Buying a piece of land with an existing home and dividing the land into different plats is exactly my plan.
Great video. It looks like The Perfect Block avoid many of these problem except size.
Very true!
For the 7th part. Conventional concrete uses cement as the binding agent. Cement goes trough a process called hydration. This means, in order to form the crystal structure cement needs water. Approximately in a 0,3 water to cement ratio ( measured in weight). Without proper moisture content cement cannot cure, nor harden. Concrete can cure and harden even underwater. Please take these informations into consideration. Concrete structures should not be dried out, they are to be kept moist for the end of the hardening process, or at least for the first 5-7 days.
Yes hydration is key. The concrete is sandwiched between two pieces of foam with no air movement. It stays plenty wet.
Good thing is you can pour even in winter. Insulated and concrete heats up as it cures. Tops of walls is the only issue.
Thanks I decided not to use ICF. To much of a hassle when I can insulate it later after the pour.
Thanks for sharing this! Very helpful ❤️❤️❤️
One of my issues was, is that I have had exposed ICF for a few years and now and because of the concrete setting, it has pushed out the icf blocks out slightly and some gaps have formed and we have had water ingress into the two bedrooms at the back. So, this year, I am going to waterproof my icf construction totally prior to putting on external wall insulation. Bar that - they are great but all the points made in the video are valid.
What type of HVAC systems do you put in ICF Homes? Not sure where your located. Forced air furnace and a/c,? and/or air exchange systems or different add on are recommended for them dehumidifier/humidifiers?? Thanks
I did forced air geothermal systems (2 separate systems). Check out some of my other videos where I discuss what I used.
@@Couchlover47 Watch my video on how much my geothermal system cost. I was able to get the price down to the equivalent of an average heat pump system.
@@Couchlover47 I had to google your abbreviations. But yes that what I was curious if those systems are used or recommended for icf homes
I live in the southern US and was considering having a built in dehumidifier just for climate purposes do you think that unit would be sufficient for also controlling the humidity from the curing process?
Depends how much capacity it has, but probably.
For any tight house, you need a ventilation system to exchange stale inside air with fresh exterior air. If you get an ERV system, then that will dehumidify your inside air as part of the air exchange process.
Excellent channel!
Super advice!
Thanks, you are very kind!!!
how did you get that shop built for $25,000? And where are you located?
Near Wichita, Kansas. I made a video about the shop "My cheap shop build"
What state are you in? Would the moisture be a problem in dry Utah?
Kansas. It's only an issue until the walls dry it, which they do. Location shouldn't matter.
Whom did you get your ICF from? I've seen a lot of stuff on the web from Fox blocks but...I'm not sure whom would have great support/service. Any advice?
My blocks were from BuildBlock and I bought directly from them. I liked their block design and a manufacturing facility wasn't too far away, meaning the shipping was too bad.
@@Challenged1 Thank you!
Excellent video
Thank you for the comment
outside water proofing is wort mentioning
do you have HVR to mediate moisture (air exchange)??
Actually, I mention the water proofing in some of my other videos. We don't have any HRV or ERV within the house. They were just too expensive at the time we were building. We just went with 4" fresh air lines for each of my geothermal units.
@@Challenged1 I would retrofit even now. Due to moisture..., I see it it Europe a lot with houses insulated tightly with styrofoam.
@@tompaj6961 Actually, our moisture problem went away over time.
Some really good info there. Much appreciated :)
I'm glad to help!!!
+1.. Many thanks! 7 Bumps in the road when traveling with ICF's ...
I watch you build ICF and I have questions. If you don't answer me I understand. I am attaching my pool plans so you can refer to what I'm doing.
I'm building a swimming pool jacuzzi love seat and tanning deck within a 22' X40' ICCF swimming pool that will be heated year around.
1. Can I just dig a rectangular hole in my ground and fill with rock to achieve my 3' 6' 3' play pool or does my ground need to match what depths I'm trying to achieve in a play pool flooring foundation?
2. I'm using 10" perfect Blocks for the perimeter walls of the pool. The back wall above the pool line will be a 5' wall above ground attached to the pool wall. For the perimeter walls foundation do I want to use Fab Form, Fast Foot, Foothold, or Form a Drain for my Foundation?
The inert walls will be either 6" or 8" perfect Blocks or should I Gunite the interior with Rebar and Gunite?
3. I was originally going to use Amvic Icf form and litedeck for the pool flooring, now I want Perfect Blocks as they seem easier and built in the US. what icf can I use for the pool flooring as I was going to have radiant floor heating?
4. Can I use an high density insulation sheathing for the pool floor as this is where all the heat escapes?
5. I am doing most of the work myself, I'm on a budget and like to do DIY stuff. But this is a huge project and I'm frightened. LOL.
6. I will be using Pebble Tec for the pool finish.
I hope you can help and look forward to your input.
I've never built a pool with ICF, but I've done a lot of research on it. Here's my take to your questions:
1. Make sure your footings are all on virgin soil. The rest can be filled with rock.
2. I would pour the pool slab and footings monolithically and avoid all of those footing products. Just pile rock at the outer edge of your pour against 2x4 forms.
3 & 4. Use rigid foam rated at a minimum of 25 psi under your slab. You can passively heat the pool as well if the tubes are also run within the concrete walk/patio surrounding the pool with a small pump circulating it. These walks get incredibly hot when the sun shines on them.
Hope this helps!
I am trying to find information on how do I screw something into walls once construction is done. (cabinet, storage plank, etc...) There are no beams, no information anywhere.
The plastic strips provide some level of hanging. But if you are going to hang a large, heavy object, you need to remove a section of the foam and attach a 2x4 directly to the concrete. Then attach the object to the 2x4.
@@Challenged1 Oh my god, 10 X thanks!!!
It is a townhouse group. All the walls/finishing will be completed when I move in :( . Do yu know if a "beam finder" will be able to detect these plactic strips? Thanks again for the info!!!
@@MrTeabag55 They won't, but a magnetic stud finder can find the screws
@@Challenged1 you have no idea, 2000 X thanks fr that info!!!!
Been searchig/reading quite a long time t fnd that info!!! No inf available!!! Thanks again!!!
i've been wanting an icf house forever, but i'm in central ohio and have never found a builder that uses this technology. considering that this seems to be so much better than traditional "stick" building, i'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be much demand for it.
In my area in Kansas, it's starting to pick up. I'm seeing more and more new builds with it.
@@Challenged1 that's lucky. i'v been looking here for years - but nothing. i hate to go through all the effort of building, and not build what i really want. maybe i'll just have to move to an area where this is more prevalent when the time comes!
Jeff, I've been determined to do icf for several years. Call a few of the manufacturers including build block and they'll get you in touch with experienced people
Where in Ohio are you located? I am thinking of becoming a ICF contractor, also have you called nudura and asked if they have a contractor in your area.
@@chptech my neighbor is a builder and has now recently used ICF. He says it is not rocket science. Our Amish community uses it all the time and often DIY. I imagine the Amish builders around us do it also.
Interesting Video very informative. In the UK / Europe we have wood create Block. Made from modified recycled timber so that it is inert/ does burn/ has absolutely no food value for any insects / termites /rodents etc they are completely water proof so you could build a pool with them with no need to line it expect for aesthetics, no need to clad or render the outside of the building except for aesthetics or to comply with local planning legislation. the inside face can be chased out for cable or pipe work to the depth of the block about 40mm / 1 3/4", you can plaster directly onto them and as the insulation is on the external face, but within the block so the concrete structure for a massive thermal mass which help enormously to maintain constant internal temperatures summer and winter. We've built several houses with these and had no issues at all could your concrete have been a little to wet ? ordinarily about 50% of concretes water content is consumed during the curing process.
This is interesting. I've seen some videos with people making walls out of concrete mixed with regular saw dust. I wonder how manufacturers of woodcrete blocks are modifying wood used in them?
Thank you for the info.
Thanks for sharing!!
Great! Thanks for hints!
Could you educate me on the difference between ICF and UPS concrete construction? I am seeing good things from the UPS forms and they seem stronger and less expensive than ICF but it is also hard to find information on the UPS concrete homes.
I have never heard of UPS concrete construction
Thank you for this, priceless information!!!
My pleasure
Did you install an ERV to help with moisture management?
I didn't, one of the things that got cut as the costs of the build went up. I may install one retroactively though as I think the price has dropped since the last time I looked. To tell you the truth, enough time has gone by now that any excess moisture in the walls dried up and the humidity levels dropped.
@@Challenged1 That's surprising to me actually, as ICF is intrinsically extremely air tight, and getting fresh air in and stale air out without using an ERV/HRV seems like a near requirement. Unless you're in a climate where your windows are always open or something. They're not very expensive either unless you splurge on a zehnder - a renewaire is like 1-1.5k.
@@rafflesmaos We are required to have 4" fresh air ducts for each hvac unit which is what I have. What brand would you recommend?
@@Challenged1 Renewaire Premium L is the best for the money that I've found for largerish houses, but some calculations should be done via ASHRAE 62.2 depending on square footage of house. HVI has CFM and efficiency ratings for all of them. Small houses can do well with Panasonic ERV for example.
Dedicated ERV ducting is best, but will probably be difficult to put in if wasn't included at construction time. Bathrooms and kitchens are exhaust, and bedrooms/livings are supply, typically in such a case. Hooking it up to existing ducting retrofit style is not ideal, but I'd say still better than no ERV at all.
@@rafflesmaos Thank you for the info
Awesome advice , my main concern was moisture behind finished drywall from inside ...? ? How do you know after a few years there isn’t a lot of mold build up behind the drywall. ? ? Thx
I wonder that too. I haven't removed any to see.
@@Challenged1 Mold needs food to live and that food is carbon based. There is no carbon in concrete (at least there shouldn't be but every so often, there might be a bit of coal in the aggregate), the ICFs or the drywall; mold cannot grow inside the wall without food.
@@elliottdiedrich2123 The back of the drywall is paper which can mold quickly.
@@Challenged1 you are right, paper can mold.
@@elliottdiedrich2123 According to this, if you spray foam your house and then put Batt insulation over it, you shouldn't have mold, but it still happens. A lot of these "new" technologies are fairly unproven for the long term and a whole lot of them are failing. I'm wondering how long it's going to be until the glue starts failing on all these composite beams people are using to build their houses.
Good, but for the last. Concrete hydrates and the water in the mix remain in the wall for ever. The moisture in your house is more likely due to its air tightness .
Not all of the water used in concrete is hydrated. A certain amount of extra water is added to improve the workability, called "water of convenience", but at the cost of strength. Water reducers are sometimes used, though they probably add more than a trivial amount to the price. I do not know how much extra a yard³ of c-crete with water reducer would cost.
If airtightness was the culprit, the humidity would always be high.
Would you say that the two years of construction was driven by the size of your home? I am curious if smaller homes ~2000sqft would take 1/3 of the time or if there is some economies of scale with a larger build and there are parts of the process that will take the same amount of time no matter the size.
Yes!!! I would say the time would definitely reduce, but not quite proportionately. The limiting factor in this whole things was me. I quickly realized I only had so much energy to expend each day before I was exhausted. Plus, the amount of help you think you will get from others on your project is significantly less than you plan for.
@@Challenged1 That is great to know, thank you! I am very interested in applying what I have started to learn with your content in a more urban context, so much smaller lots, smaller homes, and hopefully smaller timelines! haha
I'm full of questions over here, but did you look into an ICF roof for your home? It seems like ICF roofs are still a much more specialized building method.
@@jmfreerider965231 I didn't. We wanted different vaults throughout our home, so pitched roofs were the only way to go.
@@Challenged1 makes sense, thank you! Again, thanks for posting your content, I have been able to learn a lot from you on topics that would otherwise take several sources and much more time to compile!
Thanks. Here in NM it works well.
Why not drill a bunch of weep-holes in the foam two weeks after pouring ??
Why not recommend a concrete additive ?
What purpose would the weep holes serve? No water would weep from them. Allowing concrete to cure for an extended period of time makes the concrete stronger.
If you build to a passive house standard with 24/7 ventilation, wouldn't that help with the moisture/humidity issue?
In the right climate, I would assume so. We hit 90+% humidity quite often.
@@Challenged1 90%...wow! Jungle living!
It seems like it sometimes. There's a pretty heavy dew most spring and fall mornings.
@@Challenged1 ERV or HRV is a definite must for you.
You mentioned elsewhere you built load-bearing interior walls in lieu of support columns. What kind of wall are those? Not ICF kind, I suppose? Could you elaborate?
Just your typical stick-frame wall with 2x4 lumber on 16" centers. Nothing fancy
Very informative!
What about ICF for pool, a large rectangular pool or a “T- Shape “ pool ?
I have heard of it being used for that
What about using ICF with 6 or 8 inches form on Oahu, Hawaii compared to using metal stud framing?
Do you mean icf blocks with a 6" or 8" core for the exterior walls?
@@Challenged1 Yep. I don't want very thick icf walls for a house in Hawaii. Is 6" core icf wall strong enough compared with 2x6 wood stud framed wall?
@@TheMichaelJu The 6" core icf block is what the main level of my house has. It's far stronger than any 2x6 wood stud wall.
PACIFIC ICF supplies AMVIC ICF in British Columbia and I understand some of your negative comments but those are quite a stretch from reality. ICF now is priced at 50% less cost than forming with plywood. And its already insulated. We also sell an R-30 block which is 3.3" think and meets the code for the nest decade or more when we need to have 32 walls. ICF is fast to install, not much stripping time, not much bracing material.
Plans are easily made with ICF in mind ( thickness)
Penetrations should be made prior to pour , stick a conduit through the wall for pipes, wires or vents/ducts
In cold climates plumbing cannot be located in exterior walls, bring your water lines to a kitchen sink through the floor instead.
Use poly electrical boxes not metal boxes, screw that flange to an ICF web, channel foam with electric chainsaw ( 2.5")
No rain screen nor building paper, housewrap required
Any cladding can be installed
For stone facing or brick a special shaped "brickledge" ICF block is made.
Drywall sheets apply directly to the interior side of ICF, screw into webs 6-8" apart, less cutting , less waste
ICF is quiet
Various brands have drawbacks, some are reversible, less waste, some are stronger than others and some have less insulation ability
Bill PACIFIC ICF
I built 3 ICF houses (Blue Max then Arxx) in 1999/2001. I had moisture issues but I installed UltimateAir/RecoupAerators (ERV) manufactured in USA, Athens Ohio. Moisture was never an issue. When I ran electric, we used Carlton device boxes that had a side flange (shallow version with the appropriate cubic inches - code) which were then screwed to the webs. Snapped a chalk line horizontally, above and below the space in the webbing where the blocks met, about 2”, used an old junky old circular saw (after changing the depth of the blade), then used a pry bar to remove the foam. Then, ran romex and used pieces of the foam to hold the wire in place. I did end up installing a sub panel on the 2nd floor. At that time it was cheaper but with the new electric code (expensive breakers), it may not be now. As far as accommodating penetrations, it’s all about the planning. PVC (using appropriate size of course) used for chases. LVL’s, PSL’s, LSL’s for the floor/ceiling all specified by an engineer who approached the job as if it were conventionally built (stick). And the cost reflected it. It was soooo over engineered it was ridiculous and I ALWAYS tend to overdo things anyway. The TGI’s were 12” OC (25’ long x 14” - maybe 16” if I’m remembering correctly - it was so long ago). The 1st floor was so stiff, it was ridiculous. I think code allows maximum deflection of 320 and these floors were over 800 on the first floor. I did some research, confirmed my findings with another structural engineer (NOT associated with the supplier) and installed the remaining TGI’s 16” OC. In the areas of the house where there was ‘live’ tile was called out (marble/granite), a bed of mortar followed by concrete board installed which allowed for the appropriate stiffness. Used scissor roof trusses raised heel allowing for fiberglass installation at the eave (gable roof). One house used fiberglass, another Icynene under the roof deck and on the last house I used SIP panels. Now THAT was an interesting roof. I decided to felt the SIP’s, then ran 2x4’s flat, installed OSB which was then covered entirely with IWS, continuous ridge (Snow Country) vent using GAF/Slateline shingles. The ‘sub-facia’ and soffit had the same 2x4 application and then the final finished trim was installed. Yes - the houses were extraordinary/bizarrely quiet. I would defiantly build another house for myself except I would seriously look into using ICF for the roof. Storing the blocks were not a problem. They were factory wrapped in bundles and were easy to move as well (as noted in a previous REPLY). In the kitchen, I used 3/4” ply on the walls to facilitate cabinet installation. Required installation of plaster rings (at least that’s what we call the metal bands that are applied on top of the device boxes, 1/4”, 1/2”, 3/4”....whatever) to accommodate the extra depth resulting from the ply and drywall for the outlets/switches.
The main issues I had were dealing with HVAC contractors who did not know how to size the heating/cooling systems correctly and did not know how to handle the installation of the ERV’s. Stirling stepped up to the plate. Now I would use mini-splits and a hybrid hot water tank or the SANDEN (I used Takagi tankless, the only game in town in the late 90’s). Oh yeah, the other MAJOR issue I had to deal with in the building trades when I wanted to use something different like ICF’s, tankless, SIPS, plumbing, were the guys who would say stuff like: “why honey, why would you want to use THAT? We’ve always done it this way”. Seriously....HONEY????? And technology marches on. Stick building a house is like buying a car and having it delivered to your driveway. In pieces.
Oops.....I DID NOT have moisture issues, ever. Or bugs, rodents, air leaks, or thermal breaks.
@@janice180 Use an electric chain saw with depth guide so as not to hit concrete for electrical wiring. Chain saw is the same size as the wire. Make a vertical slot not in the ICF webs (studs), horizontals cuts should be at top of a block where there might be no rigid web plastic. Seal wire in slot with spray foam to gain original R value.
Pentrations are made with conduits or vent sized pipes as required in any case. Chop off the the conduit with a long recip blade at the surface of the concrete, then run the wire chases , install a poly electrical box onto a web with screws, make a credit card sized hole for the box to insert.
Use 1 5/8" drywall screws
Bill Pacific ICF
Yeah, chain saw is a good idea but I don’t have one. And I love tools but have not had a reason to purchase one so I just pulled out an old crappy circular saw for the job. I didn’t have to worry about cutting out the webs cause the webs in ARXX did not run from the top to bottom. There was foam only about an inch and a half at the top and bottom which was what I cut out.
Outlets/switches/etc: I actually used a hot knife that was modified with a ‘custom’ wire that I used to cut out the foam. In some areas, I just used a jab saw to cut out the ICF block to accommodate the device boxes, push the cut out block into the ICF cavity then spray foamed it in place. When I made chases (various sized of PVC), I just let it stick out of the walls till I was ready to use it. Then I cut it off.
@@janice180 Amvic makes a good block, webs every 6" and no web right where two block lock together, so the chain saw could go sideways in foam if it had to. Lots of web to screw into also, some blocks don't have full height web ( studs) so how does one apply screws for drywall or siding ??? www.amvicsystem.com
Excellent information thanks
Moisture. Never thought about that. Great info. Just subscribed!
You made a comment about being taxed, measuring at home square footage from outside of wall to outside of wall. I don't believe that's the case the actual building code IBC states square footage is measured from the inside of the outside wall. But You may be right for your jurisdiction I'm just going off of what the building code status square footage, being an architect measure square footage for clients all the time not residential commercial maybe the jurisdiction you're in has modified the code
Ours and most jurisdictions that I have researched base square footage on the outside perimeter of the house of which is used to assess taxes.
It is too bad that the government penalizes you for a better built wall. No private property, no freedom.
With electrical, plumbing, HVAC, etc it would be best to run it inside using a stylish exposed piping or what not.
Very helpful thank you and thumbs up.
what about if just use it for the foundation only?
As long as you waterproof it, you should be fine. I would still use it for all the walls though, if it were me.
@@Couchlover47 Totally agree!!!
great insights and information.thanks,
Most contractors are not storing the bulk material for biuld a house they order it when they get job and store the material on the job site things like windows doors plumbing and electrical are figure out when building plans are created that is why biuld plans cost so much icf is sopst to be faster even doing diy seeing the change in color how long did it take u to go frome first form down before u put roof and siding on and tell people that it didn't harm the scf it chaging color but had to wipe it off to get the water barrier to stick that would be a sine that it was damaged not stuckter but if it was flakey that means every spot u hand to rub that off for the membrane to stick that changed its r rating
Thank you for sharing!
My pleasure
When buildings with ICF you should always use a fresh air return system in conjunction with your HVAC system. That alleviates the moisture and stale air problems that can otherwise pop up. Dryer vents should actually be located in exterior walls where possible. Using a schedule 40 pipe as a conduit through the ICF forms for all utilities and other penetrations is industry standard for ICF construction. Also the manufacturer of most dryers say that venting more than 8 feet can void the warranty.
I think he meant running it up inside the interior foam of the icf wall. Of course it has to go through it horizontally.
Which ICF primer did you use or recommend?
Tamko TWP-2 Water-Base Primer. This is what my block manufacturer supplied to me.
Great info, thanks
About the moisture problem, I still don't understand how could be possible the existence of mold on the walls when concrete is already cured or dried.
The moisture problem described might be from condensation, not concrete curing, in which case it might be seasonal (which is why he didn't see it later on). But thick concrete does take a very long time to fully cure even after it appears dry to the touch.
What's that background noise? Sounds like truck air brakes releasing air or metal crashing.
Only thing that would worry me the most is moisture, but we don't have ICF factory (and other product factory needed for building process) in my country (Croatia ), witch is shame. It would make building way easier and faster. Tehnology has come a long way, so only thing you need is sewer, and water lines, rest can work by eletricity that can be produced by solar tiles, and stored in batteries.
I'm sorry to hear that
If your are interested in ICF blocks, just let me know. There is the way to get the ICF blocks to Croatia.
Thank you, great information.
Thank You
You're welcome
Great tips
If you ever moved and placed a Symons panel around to pour concrete you would not put in a complaint about a foam form. Cripes that is a really big whine for nothing.
I don't know who you worked with. My friend sells icf and he helps set up house plains. Brings out what you need at the time. He will go out to the sight and help at the beginning and help with trouble shooting. The icf bundles doesn't weight 80lbs, at least his. So maybe people need to check around before you by icf from just one person.
The worst part is the foam beads, from cutting and channeling.
It never breaks down, and may end in water ways over time.
It’s often mentioned by home owners as a concern.
One person mentioned termite protection.
I’m still not sure of a better building product.
Cheers from Oz
I read that a hot knife cuts down on the foam particles.
Thank youuuu!!
08:05 Dryer vent through a interior wall??? Dryer vents have to exhaust through an exterior wall.
Goes up through the wall and then through the roof
@@Challenged1 Long dryer vents runs are to be avoided, they are a lint fire hazard.
In a long vertical run, moisture will condense within the vent pipe, more so in the winter. That leads to excessive lint accumulation and thus a fire hazard.
Not to mention the problem of keeping wind driven rain water from being directed into your dryer, an electrical fire hazard.
Ask any code enforcement inspector if dryer vents going through the roof are legal. The solution to dryer vents,along with any other kind of penetration, in ICF walls is to plan ahead for the dryer location before the concrete pour.
A 2" x 6" wood-frame home with exterior 2" Zip system and mineral wool wall insulation would have provided as much or more insulation factor for your home and it probably would have been cheaper. It also is much faster to build. However for your basement area, the ICF blocks are a much better choice.
A 2" x 6" framed home is also much cheaper than using concrete walls. Again, concrete walls are the best choice for your basement. But above grade, well-built 2"x 6" homes are amazingly energy efficient, solid and cost-effective.
I agree, a 2x6 home is definitely a huge step up from a 2x4 home. What you have to remember is ICF has many benefits outside of just insulation.
@@Challenged1 I like the ICF concept but they have one inherent serious flaw. Termites, rodents and other pests can get into the foam and create nests. This is especially concerning for termites because in some states, termite companies will not treat a home that has ICF insulation on the exterior.
This is a critical flaw because termites could work their way to the interior walls and trusses which are made of wood. While this is true for all homes, ICF termite infestations are hidden..
Here in AZ where I live, codes require a minimum 4" tall exposed section of the concrete stemwalls on homes. This is because the vast majority of termite tubes are formed on the outside of the stemwalls. Termite inspectors are trained to look for termite tubes that extend up the house's stemwall to find the points where termites are entering the home. While termites can occasionally get under the slab and gain access to the house through a crack, this is pretty rare in most cases.
With ICF blocks, there is now an easy way to see where termites are entering the home because they are burrowing through the foam insulation. It is my understanding that some manufacturers have started adding borate and other termiticides to their foam mixtures, but that still doesn't eliminate the problem of mice, rodents and other insects burrowing into the foam.
I am planning on building a guesthouse in my backyard and the main house has had problems with termite attacks. To eliminate this problem, I will be installing a concrete block basement foundation that his solid grouted and I will use a waterproofing coating over the underground blocks. I will also install permanent holes in the basement foundation fitted with non-rusting cylinders that have metal caps. Termite companies will be able to screw the caps off and inject termiticide all along the edge of the exterior CMU walls through the metal tubes. This will make it possible for me to treat the building easily if I choose to do so.
All interior walls on the first floor will be made of LVL studs and plates, which are highly resistant to termites, and I will use pressure-treated bottom plates. This should eliminate any wood that the termites ill be interested in eating in the basement.
I will frame the interior wood walls with an air gap from the CMU block and insulate the walls. I plan on using a 12" wide block, so the thermal mass of the block should be sufficient to resist the intense summer heat we deal with when coupled with the insulated 2" x 4" walls.
The first and second-floor exterior walls will also be 12" x 16" solid grouted block, primarily for noise Isolation and insulation purposes. On the first floor, I will again use termite-resistant lumber. Only when I get to the second floor will I use regular lumber.
The cost to use this system will be much more than a wood frame 2" x 6" structure with a stucco exterior, which is the most common design used here, but it will be incredibly well-insulated from hot and cold weather, nearly soundproof, and highly resistant to termite attacks.
I am a civil engineer with a general contractor's license, and I thought you might be interested in the design I have come up with to deal with the challenges that AZ homes face.
I enjoyed your videos. Thanks for your reply.
@@franklong6269 It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into you design. I agree, the termite issue is a problem, although not an insurmountable one.
We have the same background!!! Very cool!
Really good info. Thanks.
Glad to help
Do you recommend to build home by home owner from wood ??? I do not recommend to build home by home owner either to from wood or ICF maybe you do not have enough experience with icf blocks. There is no better products but icf block to build you own home . We are building with icf in Massachusetts for years and people are love it
I recommend you know the products completely before you build a home. As my video said, I highly recommend ICF, just know the product first.