I have my Phoenix for about 2 years now. Plastic cup still works and I didn't have to replace to O ring. The only cons for me is the retention which can be solved by 1 spray of water.
Thank you for sharing. I have to say that overall Kinu is my favourite. Soon I will be comparing all 4 of my hand grinders to find out which is the best for pour over.
I decided against the Eureka single dose and have a Niche on the way now. Arrives next week! Speaking of seasoning burrs with high end coffee, I’m going to run about a pound of some super cheap beans through the grinder at a fine setting to jumpstart that whole process.
Congratulations! You will enjoy it. Some people do not agree with necessity of seasoning burrs but those who do, usually mention more than one pound. Anyway let me know how you like your coffee from Niche.
As you may know, the Kinu Phoenix came as a result of a factory fire. Like rising from the ashes of the mythelogical bird. Thus the use of plastic to return to business faster. Great show, Jack. You make me laugh, amigo.
I haven’t heard about that. That would explain the name. I don’t buy the explanation of using plastic though as still most of the grinder is metal. For me the only reason to use plastic is to cut the costs. Great story anyway, thank you!
Thanks for the stir, Jack. I personally try to overturn the shot vertically rather than a circular stir, in order to incorporate some crema into the brew. Thanks for another interesting video.
i made totally different experiences with the Kinu: more soft, rich and in a way full mouth than any other grinder, eben compared with some electrical types like df 64... perhaps it differs from bean to bean type?
Thank you for watching. As I said, that depends on how many people will be interested. There have been many videos about C40, not sure if I will be able to add anything to that. Great build quality, great for pour overs and painfully slow for espresso. But maybe there is more to discover.
@@mycoffeeshow111 I'd even be interested in seeing that comparison. I love my C40 but I'd still like to see how it does side by side with the Kinu and Niche.
I'll be curious to know how the high end grinder results are on the Barista express vs a higher end espresso machine. With a dual boiler you should get more consistent temperature maybe, but I think a lot of peoples issue with that espresso machine is with the built in grinder in it. Your little La Pavoni lever machine should give you really good results too, have you tried to compare the two machines? 12:48 Definitely don't use good coffee to season your grinders :D With a new grinder or just for switching between brew methods and getting into the ball park it helps to have some old / bad / cheap coffee to sacrifice :) I used to use a needle tool with cork like that and it works well, now I have the 3d printed one it's a bit nicer since the needles are equal length and evenly spaced out! You can keep the needle tool pointy side down in a cup with rice and it helps keep it clean and it's easy to retrieve without stabbing yourself! I made a long video going through all my accessories and why I have them, what I like or don't like. Not sure if you saw that one. I think the amount of retention on most hand grinders should be negligible. Static does cause SOME retention on my K plus though if you're not aware of it sticking below the burrs. I think stirring IS a good idea, since the start of the shot and end of the shot are going to have very different flavours, stuff may settle in the cup so you'll have layers of different flavours (might be interesting) but also crema is usually not so great tasting although haven't tried it on its own lately to see!
If I still have Barista Express then, I will record the video comparing inbuilt grinder with high end grinder. Denis said I should have it by December, maybe earlier. By this time I may have new espresso machine anyway. I have made BE vs La Pavoni- not my most watched video: ua-cam.com/video/IBg6EJ_sjhs/v-deo.html Last of your videos I saw you were bending puck screens with the sheer strength of your mind 😛
@@mycoffeeshow111 Products from People's Republic of China (mainland China) are referred to as Chinese products. Products from Republic of China (Taiwan) are referred to as Taiwanese. Currently, 2 different countries. Maybe I'm wrong, but I typically expect better quality products from Taiwan.
I don't think you have to worry about aluminum in your grinder, the burrs are steel. I think there were some studies showing aluminum isn't good for people and may contribute to Alzheimer's disease, which is why I always avoided anti-perspirants that contain aluminum (it also clogs up your pores with aluminum to prevent sweating, that cannot be healthy!) but I'm not sure if the study is conclusive. If you're worried avoid aluminum for acidic or high temperature things, no aluminum canned tomatoes / sauce! And no Aluminum cookware, but having coffee grounds in an aluminum container for 1 minute isn't going to react with it :p
Jack you need a hario switch to us the coffee you use to run in the grinder. then you should be able to get some poor over at a decent quality out and not loose it all.
Hmm. I had to read it 3 times to understand. Long day at work. Are you sure it would work or are you just pulling my legs? I was thinking about getting hario switch but never heard about that recipe. If it works I would have to make a video about it and call it my own discovery.
@@mycoffeeshow111 It should work the switch is very forgiving to grind - the simple recipe is to poor all the water in first then dump the coffee, stir and wait. Maybe you will get too many fines and get a low draw down but you should be able to get some good coffee of what other vise is waste.
And if you have actually brewed with it - I actually think you can balance an under extracted brew by pouring it all into a switch and add water for a filter ratio and steep for a minute. but this is really experimental territory - how ever ground braking :-) Maybe adding some extra fresh grounds.. but temperature maintenance etc could be very difficult - and every brew is also different so optimization is not really and option here.
I will have to try it. In fact, my next video will mention something about that. If you are looking for Niche type flavour possibly K-Max is closer but haven’t put them side by side yet.
@@ahmadhusaini8420 from what I heard jx would be similar to Kinu. But in the next video I will show you something interesting about how to change the flavour profile of Kinu.
On the K-Plus it's got a similar magnetic catch cup but without the extra ledge you have so it's even easier to knock off accidentally, I've knocked it off once, while kinda grinding and walking around not paying much attention, I think it hit my stomach or something, but once you're aware of it and paying attention to how you're swinging your grinder around, then you can easily avoid it happening. I think 1zPresso is from Taiwan, which is supposed to be 'better' than China generally, but I think the Lagom P64 is built in China, Niche Zero is too, you can get nice products from China, the amount of cheap products do outnumber them though :) I think I noticed a big improvement on taste after seasoning the burrs on both the Niche and 1zPresso K-plus (same burrs as all the K series, you were correct).
@@mycoffeeshow111 last question and thnks to tell me but for v60 chemex kalita origami etc k ultra or kmax please i have a eletric machine for espresso
@@rolandocalderonguerra2346 some says there is not much difference but for me K Ultra works and tastes better. Is it worth the higher price tag- that isn’t for me to decide.
@@rolandocalderonguerra2346 slightly faster and imo increases fruity aromas in your pour overs. As I said at the beginning- you should be happy with any K grinder but Ultra is my favourite.
To me you seem biased in favor of the 1Zpresso at the start. Kind of like you were making the video to affirm your choice rather than compare them. You make comments that suggest the Kinu is somehow obviously inferior in build quality and knit-pick things about it not coming with a brush that seem to emphasize this bias. However, by the end of the video this bias seems to have mellowed out. I have been searching for a premium hand grinder (primarily for brew coffee not espresso) for a while now and have narrowed my choices down to the 1ZPresso K plus, Commandante C40, or Kinu M47 simplicity/classic. My perspective from way to many hours of research is that for pour over coffee the C40 still subjectively offers the best flavor, but at the cost of outdated adjustment, slow grind speed and some questionable plastic components. The K plus seems to be a more modern C40 that offers near Commandante level brew flavor profiles, but with a more modern stepped adjustment system and a quicker grind time. However, it still retains the plastic lid configuration of the Commandante. It is also hard for me to discern just how well it is built. 1ZPresso is a somewhat newer addition to the worldwide market and seems to have taken it by storm. That said, they do not have the long-standing reputations of Commandante or Kinu. Kinu, especially the Classic/Simplicity models has the best build quality of the three without a doubt. The whole thing is incredibly over-engineered and tremendously durable. It arguably has the best adjustment method of any of the three as it is precise and step-less. It is touted as one of the best grinders for espresso that is very capable for pour over. However, most seem to say it creates more “fines” in the pour over range than others. Maybe, it ever so slightly leaves something to be desired in flavor when it comes to pour over. I am tempted to edge the Commandante out of the race in slight favor of the K Plus, but I have a very hard time trying to choose between the K plus and the M47. Unfortunately, there are very few videos that compares these two grinders head to head. Thank you very much for this comparison. I am not as concerned with price as I am with quality. Which of the three I mentioned do you think would be best for pour over brewing? I know the reality is likely that any one of these 3 would be a good pick.
Hi, thank you for your comments. I try to be as objective as possible but like any parent with multiple kids, even though you say you love all of them the same, you always have a favourite one. My favourite is Kinu, the way it feels in hand, the way it effortlessly grind for espresso. I would go for Classic if this was my one and only hand grinder for espresso . You can also get additional burrs for pour over although some viewers mentioned there is not much difference. Yesterday I recorded a video comparing j max with kinu with k max and C40 grinding for pour overs. I will upload it next week but as you can guess the real battle was between k max and c40. Both offer more rounded flavours. Kinu notes are crisp and sharp but not always pleasent.
Thank you. Yes as far as I am aware Kinu is near stepless. You can really dial in your espresso if you have patience and strength to grind multiple times
...??? in no way that are espresso shots... more some shot americanos.... how thin the coffee looks through the "glass" (how dare you as a pro? glas....)
I have my Phoenix for about 2 years now. Plastic cup still works and I didn't have to replace to O ring. The only cons for me is the retention which can be solved by 1 spray of water.
Thank you for sharing. I have to say that overall Kinu is my favourite. Soon I will be comparing all 4 of my hand grinders to find out which is the best for pour over.
I decided against the Eureka single dose and have a Niche on the way now. Arrives next week!
Speaking of seasoning burrs with high end coffee, I’m going to run about a pound of some super cheap beans through the grinder at a fine setting to jumpstart that whole process.
Congratulations! You will enjoy it. Some people do not agree with necessity of seasoning burrs but those who do, usually mention more than one pound.
Anyway let me know how you like your coffee from Niche.
Great video Jack... keep up the great work as I live vicariously through you and your videos :)
Thank you! You even managed to use a word that I haven’t heard . Had to check b4 I answer in case it is some hidden insult 😛
As you may know, the Kinu Phoenix came as a result of a factory fire. Like rising from the ashes of the mythelogical bird. Thus the use of plastic to return to business faster. Great show, Jack. You make me laugh, amigo.
I haven’t heard about that. That would explain the name. I don’t buy the explanation of using plastic though as still most of the grinder is metal. For me the only reason to use plastic is to cut the costs. Great story anyway, thank you!
Thanks for the stir, Jack. I personally try to overturn the shot vertically rather than a circular stir, in order to incorporate some crema into the brew. Thanks for another interesting video.
Thank you! I guess I will have to attend a course on how to correctly stir the espresso 😜
Suggestions for roaster: St Martins Coffee Roasters, Baristocracy and Northside Coffee.
Thank you. I will have to check them.
i made totally different experiences with the Kinu: more soft, rich and in a way full mouth than any other grinder, eben compared with some electrical types like df 64... perhaps it differs from bean to bean type?
@@tom_nuyts I think I agree. I sold it long time ago but I always enjoyed the coffee from it.
Thank you for sharing! Will you put C40 into the comparison in the near future?
Thank you for watching. As I said, that depends on how many people will be interested. There have been many videos about C40, not sure if I will be able to add anything to that. Great build quality, great for pour overs and painfully slow for espresso. But maybe there is more to discover.
@@mycoffeeshow111 I'd even be interested in seeing that comparison. I love my C40 but I'd still like to see how it does side by side with the Kinu and Niche.
I'll be curious to know how the high end grinder results are on the Barista express vs a higher end espresso machine. With a dual boiler you should get more consistent temperature maybe, but I think a lot of peoples issue with that espresso machine is with the built in grinder in it.
Your little La Pavoni lever machine should give you really good results too, have you tried to compare the two machines?
12:48 Definitely don't use good coffee to season your grinders :D With a new grinder or just for switching between brew methods and getting into the ball park it helps to have some old / bad / cheap coffee to sacrifice :)
I used to use a needle tool with cork like that and it works well, now I have the 3d printed one it's a bit nicer since the needles are equal length and evenly spaced out! You can keep the needle tool pointy side down in a cup with rice and it helps keep it clean and it's easy to retrieve without stabbing yourself!
I made a long video going through all my accessories and why I have them, what I like or don't like. Not sure if you saw that one.
I think the amount of retention on most hand grinders should be negligible. Static does cause SOME retention on my K plus though if you're not aware of it sticking below the burrs.
I think stirring IS a good idea, since the start of the shot and end of the shot are going to have very different flavours, stuff may settle in the cup so you'll have layers of different flavours (might be interesting) but also crema is usually not so great tasting although haven't tried it on its own lately to see!
If I still have Barista Express then, I will record the video comparing inbuilt grinder with high end grinder. Denis said I should have it by December, maybe earlier. By this time I may have new espresso machine anyway.
I have made BE vs La Pavoni- not my most watched video:
ua-cam.com/video/IBg6EJ_sjhs/v-deo.html
Last of your videos I saw you were bending puck screens with the sheer strength of your mind 😛
Great viewing 👍
1Zpresso is from Taiwan, not China. At least, not yet.
I hope I have not made a political statement but isn’t Taiwan part of Republic of China?
@@mycoffeeshow111 Products from People's Republic of China (mainland China) are referred to as Chinese products. Products from Republic of China (Taiwan) are referred to as Taiwanese. Currently, 2 different countries. Maybe I'm wrong, but I typically expect better quality products from Taiwan.
@@mikegurv1818 thank you! on my box says “made in China” that is why I was a bit confused.
@@mycoffeeshow111 I like my K-Max but can't get it to grind coarse even if I go to 9 and above. Thanks for the video.
@@mikegurv1818 I only tried once to grind on 9 and it wasn’t as coarse as one would expect
I don't think you have to worry about aluminum in your grinder, the burrs are steel. I think there were some studies showing aluminum isn't good for people and may contribute to Alzheimer's disease, which is why I always avoided anti-perspirants that contain aluminum (it also clogs up your pores with aluminum to prevent sweating, that cannot be healthy!) but I'm not sure if the study is conclusive. If you're worried avoid aluminum for acidic or high temperature things, no aluminum canned tomatoes / sauce! And no Aluminum cookware, but having coffee grounds in an aluminum container for 1 minute isn't going to react with it :p
I think you are right. Even if it is bad for me, it will take like 30years to hit me anyway.
Jack you need a hario switch to us the coffee you use to run in the grinder. then you should be able to get some poor over at a decent quality out and not loose it all.
Hmm. I had to read it 3 times to understand. Long day at work. Are you sure it would work or are you just pulling my legs? I was thinking about getting hario switch but never heard about that recipe. If it works I would have to make a video about it and call it my own discovery.
@@mycoffeeshow111 It should work the switch is very forgiving to grind - the simple recipe is to poor all the water in first then dump the coffee, stir and wait. Maybe you will get too many fines and get a low draw down but you should be able to get some good coffee of what other vise is waste.
And if you have actually brewed with it - I actually think you can balance an under extracted brew by pouring it all into a switch and add water for a filter ratio and steep for a minute. but this is really experimental territory - how ever ground braking :-) Maybe adding some extra fresh grounds.. but temperature maintenance etc could be very difficult - and every brew is also different so optimization is not really and option here.
@@hookedonwood5830 maybe I will try it when I have some friends for coffee. If they are still my friends afterwards, that would mean the recipe works
Can you compare them with conical niche zero? Do you think these manual conical is a great alternative for niche zero?
I will have to try it. In fact, my next video will mention something about that. If you are looking for Niche type flavour possibly K-Max is closer but haven’t put them side by side yet.
@@mycoffeeshow111 correct. Niche type flavor when i want to change the taste of my df64 Ssp
Actually im looking at jx pro. Probably the same?
@@ahmadhusaini8420 from what I heard jx would be similar to Kinu. But in the next video I will show you something interesting about how to change the flavour profile of Kinu.
@@mycoffeeshow111 oh that's great! But I'm looking for a cheaper options! Haha
On the K-Plus it's got a similar magnetic catch cup but without the extra ledge you have so it's even easier to knock off accidentally, I've knocked it off once, while kinda grinding and walking around not paying much attention, I think it hit my stomach or something, but once you're aware of it and paying attention to how you're swinging your grinder around, then you can easily avoid it happening.
I think 1zPresso is from Taiwan, which is supposed to be 'better' than China generally, but I think the Lagom P64 is built in China, Niche Zero is too, you can get nice products from China, the amount of cheap products do outnumber them though :)
I think I noticed a big improvement on taste after seasoning the burrs on both the Niche and 1zPresso K-plus (same burrs as all the K series, you were correct).
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Please kmax or kplus?
Do they still make K Plus? It is an older model. I would recommend K Ultra if possible. If not, go for Max.
@@mycoffeeshow111 last question and thnks to tell me but for v60 chemex kalita origami etc k ultra or kmax please i have a eletric machine for espresso
@@rolandocalderonguerra2346 some says there is not much difference but for me K Ultra works and tastes better. Is it worth the higher price tag- that isn’t for me to decide.
@@mycoffeeshow111 and why pick ultra and not kmax what other reason different at the price
@@rolandocalderonguerra2346 slightly faster and imo increases fruity aromas in your pour overs. As I said at the beginning- you should be happy with any K grinder but Ultra is my favourite.
To me you seem biased in favor of the 1Zpresso at the start. Kind of like you were making the video to affirm your choice rather than compare them. You make comments that suggest the Kinu is somehow obviously inferior in build quality and knit-pick things about it not coming with a brush that seem to emphasize this bias. However, by the end of the video this bias seems to have mellowed out.
I have been searching for a premium hand grinder (primarily for brew coffee not espresso) for a while now and have narrowed my choices down to the 1ZPresso K plus, Commandante C40, or Kinu M47 simplicity/classic.
My perspective from way to many hours of research is that for pour over coffee the C40 still subjectively offers the best flavor, but at the cost of outdated adjustment, slow grind speed and some questionable plastic components.
The K plus seems to be a more modern C40 that offers near Commandante level brew flavor profiles, but with a more modern stepped adjustment system and a quicker grind time. However, it still retains the plastic lid configuration of the Commandante. It is also hard for me to discern just how well it is built. 1ZPresso is a somewhat newer addition to the worldwide market and seems to have taken it by storm. That said, they do not have the long-standing reputations of Commandante or Kinu.
Kinu, especially the Classic/Simplicity models has the best build quality of the three without a doubt. The whole thing is incredibly over-engineered and tremendously durable. It arguably has the best adjustment method of any of the three as it is precise and step-less. It is touted as one of the best grinders for espresso that is very capable for pour over. However, most seem to say it creates more “fines” in the pour over range than others. Maybe, it ever so slightly leaves something to be desired in flavor when it comes to pour over.
I am tempted to edge the Commandante out of the race in slight favor of the K Plus, but I have a very hard time trying to choose between the K plus and the M47. Unfortunately, there are very few videos that compares these two grinders head to head. Thank you very much for this comparison.
I am not as concerned with price as I am with quality. Which of the three I mentioned do you think would be best for pour over brewing? I know the reality is likely that any one of these 3 would be a good pick.
Hi, thank you for your comments. I try to be as objective as possible but like any parent with multiple kids, even though you say you love all of them the same, you always have a favourite one.
My favourite is Kinu, the way it feels in hand, the way it effortlessly grind for espresso. I would go for Classic if this was my one and only hand grinder for espresso . You can also get additional burrs for pour over although some viewers mentioned there is not much difference.
Yesterday I recorded a video comparing j max with kinu with k max and C40 grinding for pour overs. I will upload it next week but as you can guess the real battle was between k max and c40. Both offer more rounded flavours. Kinu notes are crisp and sharp but not always pleasent.
@@mycoffeeshow111 thanks for the reply. I am looking forward to seeing which one you liked better.
Great video. Subscribed :) One thing, I think the Kinu is stepless so you should be able to fine tune with micro adjustments right?
Thank you. Yes as far as I am aware Kinu is near stepless. You can really dial in your espresso if you have patience and strength to grind multiple times
?? why do you show "over extracted" shots to us? what kinda judgment is this??
@@tom_nuyts thx for watching. Tbh I don’t remember exactly. This is one of my older videos. Hopefully the new ones will be more satisfactory.
...??? in no way that are espresso shots... more some shot americanos.... how thin the coffee looks through the "glass" (how dare you as a pro? glas....)
Those are my vodka shots but can be used for espresso as well 😛