The Kill Team Rumors that I don't want to believe
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- Credit to @ChapterMasterValrak
• HUGE RUMOURS! Kill Tea...
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Kill Team in the sky with daemons?
As opposed to diamonds?
@@CrimsonTemplar2 ?
@@Sully726Beatles reference
@@Orihutcherson The who?
hehe. But also, yes, Chaos Furies would be a great release for this.
Valrak gets more half right, then he gets half wrong. He isn’t for every one, but the pub atmosphere he has does make the rumors and hobby banter fun for me.
Many, many many people love his stuff. I just also know many dislike it. He is, to use a tired phrase a bit Marmite.
IMHO we have a lot of cool Kill Teams at the moment. What I am starving for is new terrain. Bheta Decima has just been a miss.
I'll second this. More cool terrain to use the slew of awesome teams we already have access to.
Hard agree, we need some kind of refreshed season one terrain, possibly with maps.
It seems much more likely to be a "new way to play" in a similar vein as Into The Dark than a replacement for traditional kill team. They'll probably launch a new edition with all the rules in so it will be more like an expansion than a replacement.
Possible possible, I still think they need to refocus on season one play for myself.
By doing so, all the existing kill team boxes would not be bought anymore (in big numbers). That argument seems strongly sugest, that the old teams stay a while in play.
From what I can see, they’re not flying off the shelves now. There’s a pretty decent selection of the individual KT boxes in the FLGS.
Many of them, but not all of them could be sold to 40k players tbh.
I always appreciate that you credit people you talk about. I always give credit to news articles and trailers that I talk about in content and it bugs me when people don't, for whatever reason. I've actually stopped watching certain channels for this reason.
As far as the rumour goes, I just really want new Elysians in any form I can get them 😂
Always give credit where credit is due! (Also allows me to apportion blame if it does not plan out :p)
Imo the only teams to be deleted will be the ones that require more than 1 box of minis to play.
I think this is will be an update on the core rules, with a focus on vantage points, so hammering down better rules for models getting up and down from them.
hmm, I don't think that multiple box bespoke teams will be deleted, I do think all the compendium teams are at risk.
@TabletopImpulse I wish that were the case because the teams that give you more ways to build your team appeal to me, but I can see GW marketing focused on teams that require only 1 box of models to buy to play.
On the other hand it would be awesome if it was the other way around with every bespoke team expanded like some of the compendium teams to give choices in the models you bring.
I’d be very sad if models became obsolete after such a short time in the hobby. I’d probably collect lord of the rings models and play frostgrave or move into mordheim
I would be sad. I'd probably main Warcry or Shatterpoint if the new Kill Team rules were bobbins.
My humble opinion : 1- terrain for next KT season is in rumour engine ( 2023-05-16 + 2023-05-16). 2- problel with flying is in this season becouse of nature of Bheta-decima ( this is reason why Void-dancer Troupe lost flying..). 3 - Next season we are back in normal open with two new teams with flying... ( GW doesn't care about old season balance). I don't think we're going to air next season...
I had forgotten about those rumor engines! Yeah, I like your opinion and hope it is true.
It's feasible that it may 'just be rules for including Jump models', but you might not want an all jump team, in the main game... oh, you kinda said that in your later scenarios 😅
Thanks for the comment :) Watching the whole video can help, but I've definitely done exactly this to other youtubers before
Flying necrons? New models required.
Some kind of smaller flying necron could be super cool!
I personally think it is a new edition (two bespoke teams and unique terrain fits a launch box) but not nearly as dramatic about the fly rules as it sounds (ie whole game doesn’t become about it). Yes, it may add a new dimension with aerial combat (cool!), but I think overall the new edition will be a tweak on the current ruleset. Could see all the fully bespoke kits getting a compendium and anything that’s not also now a 40k unit getting invalidated (goodbye my beautiful hierotek) plus old compendium teams obviously gone.
I certainly hope they don't invalidate bespoke teams from this edition but all things are possible.
I felt KT 21 never did a lot with the Z axis of play, so these rumors make me curious. Sure there were some vantage points on a lot of open board maps, but that's about it. I could see a low G hive world terrain set with lots of spires. This specialized environment would call for the use of specialized "flying" kill teams. Not sure if this would take shape as a red box, new season or totally new edition. I plan to keep an open mind until we know more.
I'd agree, in fact I think Kill Team deliberately took steps not to make verticality a bigger part of the game. No official terrain sets with more then one vertical level, for example.
Rapid-fire comments (because YT flaked out & lost my original post)
Scenario 1) I’m dubious about this one. Not because it’s not within the realm of the probable for GW to start a new edition from scratch, but because a game where all the teams fly doesn’t seem that compelling to me. It’d be like playing a game mode where you’re still moving from cover to cover, but you do it faster & the intervening terrain isn’t a problem. Add to that the shooting gallery effect if you stay up in the air.
Pro: It would let them release or revamp a jump infantry unit from every army except GSC & Necrons (& they could just create those from whole cloth).
Con: It would lose a lot of goodwill from one of the more active player bases.
Scenario 2) The red box (a la Ashes of Faith) is a much more likely option. It lets them release some new sculpts & it’s likely to sell out almost immediately)assuming there AREN’T inventory issues.
Pro: Helps tide folks over until the new edition releases (which I think will be in Q3 or Q4, not summer (Q2)).
Con: It’ll be nigh impossible to get ahold of because of the ongoing production issues.
Scenario 3) I could see this happening, they’d need to either build the teams or errata them pretty quickly to make sure they don’t become OP.
Pro: Yay 4 boxes per year.
Con: Hopefully they’ll be relevant in the next edition.
Great analysis thanks. I think GW could put out a red box with better supply then Ashes of Faith. I agree it doesn't seem compelling for a new edition, but Games Workshop occasionally makes poor choices!
I just bought kommandos two months ago and would reaaaaally dislike, if I only got a few games in, before they were invalidated. I don't think 3 years is fair. Sure, some people, who buy a lot of minis and arr constantly getting the "cool new stuff", have already burned out on those old teams. But many people buy a little and longevity of those minis is a plus, not a minus. For example, my son is starting an army and I am happy, that we can still get classic Predators, for example.
Yeah, that's true I didnt really consider enough the position of someone who buys something thats been out for two and a bit years. It's not like there is a warning on the product that it may be nearing end of life.
8:20 so in a weird way Kill Team becomes the replacement for Aeronautica Imperialis?
See, as an idea, I can see a game focusing on arial infantry combat being really fun, it just would not be kill team.
I want to know about the 40k rumours but don't want to watch him. Consider covering all the rumours!
I'm not sure just doing a "Valrak Digest" is deeply fair. But in summery: A new plastic knight with many visible shield generators and some kind of tesla coil gun. Blood angels will be the next big codex with a partal range refresh. Grey Knights are getting a new codex and a single model, and an upgrade sprue for the Dreadknight - even though they obviously need a whole new range.
It could also be more of a kill team expansion that adds more depth to the game as opposed to out right replacing it, more like Ash Wastes for Necromunda. And it wouldn’t be the first time that both teams were “new.” Just look at Salvation. The Vespid would just be getting a similar updating like the Striking Scorpions did.
The first box of each season usually has two new teams, Octarious, Into the Dark, Salvation.
@@TabletopImpulse I was more meaning new in the literal sense as in “never existed before” vs “first time in plastic”, but that is my more literal side taking over.
In regards to ways to not invalidate older teams, they could also have specific missions that are designed around both teams being flyers, ala the floor is lava type of special rules. They could also have themed missions where the a flying kill team is tasked with assaulting an entrenched ground kill team. Basically along the the lines of a beach head assault or paratrooper raid.
When kill team turns into super smash bros.
What happens if it’s just two levels of terrain, ground level 1 and level 2 and flying is just treated as equipment and you can go from ground to level 2 in circle(2 inch).
I do wonder if it ends up being a red box side game thing, if the normal competitive rules will have flying toned down a little bit
I hope the rumors are wrong too…
A little hope is a dangerous thing!
19:53 I think give me BS 3 flying Scions with Plasma you cowards!
Love to see them balance that.
@@TabletopImpulse I didn’t ask them to balance it 😜🤣
I feel like if everyone has fly then nobody has fly? It feels like such a specific niche to do a flying ONLY season. I could see them making some marquee thing about flying but existing teams still being viable.
I could see a game about 40k Arial combat being a fun thing for them to do as a funny little side game, but it isn't Kill Team.
If you look at the existing scions sprues, one contains the bodies and the other contains the special weapons and command squad upgrades. Conceivably they could create a $60 usd, 10-model killteam comprised of two body sprues and a new jump pack upgrade sprue. This makes scenario 3 at least possible.
However, Valrak also mentioned that Swooping Hawks are being refreshed as a Killteam kit. Conceivably there could be a third team in a Red Box type product, but I think more likely is Scenario 4...
Scenario #4 - It's basically like Into the Dark.
A new season, maybe a new edition, with a vertical terrain set that supports flying teams, but is compatible with existing ground teams. Honestly a vertical map is probably less game altering than the narrow confines of Into the Dark. The remaining season boxes would probably be a mix of flying and non-flying teams. GW would want to offer something to customers not interested in flying teams, and I don't think there are that many likely upgrade sprue candidates for existing jump kits. GW really likes to KT boxes to have at least 10 models, and all existing jump-pack kits are 5 models.
Valrak also recently mentioned a rumor of a Ratling Killteam, which would fit nicely into the season a described due to their use of grappling hooks.
Interesting thought about the sprues, I see it. To be totally clear Valrak knows swooping Hawks are coming, I guesses they are for kill Team. It could well be the start of a new season I suppose, if there is no new edition happening. Ratlings would tie in with an old rumor engine that features a pie.
@@TabletopImpulse I don't remember a pie on WarbossKurgan's unsolved rumor engine list. Maybe that ended up being part of the gnome bloodbowl team?
@@quinn_griffin Check out 2023-06-27 on the WarbossKurgan blog
@@TabletopImpulse haha I guess that could be a pie.
im sure i saw somewhere that the LoS rules were getting an overhaul for the new set. flying units would certainly mean big changes to LoS.
That they would!
I hope they just add another dimension to play rather than it being a whole new way to play, which is the only way to play kill team going forward. #notoKT24
To be totally honest I hope for neither, I hope they refocus on season one syle play with a new terrain set.
Maybe copium but I think scenario 2 is the case. The fact it will drop intbetween boxes 3 and 4 of Season 3 of BD. 4th box of season proper of season 3 will have the Dark Mechanicum + one other team.
I hope so, but where are you getting Dark Mechanicum from?
@@TabletopImpulseI think it was speculated by GHD based on the lore within the Salvation book. In the same video he also correctly called the Brood Coven/Bothers I think? That plus more hopium on my part!
I don't think they'll do "Kill Team takes to the skies" because that's not Kill Team, even conceptually. KT2018 and KT2021 were at least conceptually the same, even if the rules differed. If I wanted to play a game where terrain doesn't matter and we're flying around I'd play X-Wing. I would simply continue to play 2021 and so would a lot of people. So it would do the opposite of sell more models, except to people who are buying them for 40K anyway.
I know we think GW are just robots rolling dice ala Futurama TV execs but if you look at what's actually been produced it's usually been at least a response to what people are asking for. Kill Team with Jetpacks is not what people are looking for.
I don't disagree with your analysis of what people want, and yet I think these two teams in one format or another is what GW is going to deliver.
@@TabletopImpulse I don't doubt the teams are possible and maybe even likely, I just don't think it's going to be the default format of Kill Team 2024
The biggest doubt I have about these rumours is what terrain would be suitable for aerial combat? Steeples? Industrial chimneys and cooling towers? Distillation columns and gantries? Would there be any light terrain or would it be only heavy terrain? Would it be sufficiently different from Bheta-decima?
Valrak does have a good track record, but I hope he’s wrong with this one.
Valrak did suggest in the video they would be tops of buildings and the like, but also said he had not actually seen the terrain.
I can see vespids & jump scions as box 4 or a red box.
Unlike kommandos & krieg, I don’t think they’re enough to sell a launch box for a new edition.
That's true, they don't seem like headliners.
I don't think I believe the rumor unless it's being run as a "Boarding Actions" style annex mode, which might make sense if they need Killteam to get out of Necromunda's way for 6-8 months.
Maybe, maybe. But we badly need them to refocus on Season 1 style play, right now someone coming new to the game can't buy terrain to play the normal open board play. Another gimmicky mode of play would just mean it gets even harder for the game to grow.
Valrak has good sources sure
He does!
To be honest, I've been burned out by the constant stream of releases. I'm getting into Necromunda for now.
The thing is like I said in the video, you don't have to buy them all. I know I do because I have a channel and make content, but you can buy your one team and be done. I guess maybe you want to pick up a terrain set a year if you play at home .
I do agree that he gets excited and goes from things hes been told to thing's he reckons.
The selling you models thing even goes further into the latest attempts at board games.
Its also the same reason all those board games are terrible.
Also not helped for his over excitement for one of the most boring chapters.
Hey now, say what you want about Valrak, the Imperial Fists are cool. Best first founding chapter.
It’s hard to say. From my perspective, Kill Team has just about run its course, in a sense. I don’t know how you keep the game fresh and keep releasing new teams, while at the same time, keep the game balanced. Bheta Decima, as released, strongly favored a handful of teams and very nearly invalidated the rest. Welsh John recently did a video suggesting a number of fairly major changes to Bheta Decima that he felt necessary to make the terrain set viable for balanced tournaments. So, that suggests that, during the development of Bheta Decima, GW was willing to introduce a new setting that pretty clearly left something like two thirds of existing teams out in the cold. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if GW said, okay folks, we’ve developed a completely new skirmish level 40k game. Feel free to keep playing KT21 but we’re not going to support it after this last balance update.
Welsh John has an opinion and the American Meta seems to agree with him, the British meta, from what I have seen is using BD while grumbling a bit about it. But if you want to see how KT could keep rumbling along for three more years, just look at warcry.
I think new editions that completely invalidates old models just kills skirmish games, so let's hope it is only a new scenario and not a shoot in the foot
A little hope is a dangerous thing!
I've been hoping for Primaris Deathwatch Killteam vets since last edition. Ive known the chances have always been slim to none, but I doubt they'll fly. So I guess maybe next edition.😢
Deathwatch with jetpacks? Now we're talking ;)
Deathwatch would be everyone's obvious pick for what should be a in a new launch box, but Valrak is probably right about the models we get.
@@GlassHalfDead You don't even go here.
I think new edition will be cosmetic change not a revolution. I have the same feelings like you about this new edition "in the sky".
I hope you would be correct.
Valrak gets things wrong occasionally, but far more often than not he is correct. Elysians would actually be pretty cool in my opinion, though Scions with jump packs would be a little lame. The old Forgeworld Elysian miniatures were great.
Maybe an aerial combat box will be an option expansion kind of like Apocalypse with 40k. Otherwise I think the game would be terrible if you could only play jump capable units.
Yeah I could definitely see it as some kind of optional expansion, but I bet the new plastic teams would have to be usable in main KT as well or no one would buy it. (Unless they played both IG and Kroot in 40k)
@@TabletopImpulse I agree, I think if they would have to make them compatible with normal KT. To be honest they might be kind of fun teams. I really just hope they don’t try to make a whole season of “things that fly and you need to fly to play this season.”
That said I feel like they are kind of running out of idea for new Kill Teams so who knows.
I really struggle to get to the end of a Valarie video. I just can’t.
I've got you covered for Kill Team anyway!
I've speculated before on UA-cam comments discord and live stream about this. Here is my take. New edition KT will be a rules tidy-up with new books in 2025 (see golden ticket shenanigans and product delays for that push back). Kill Team into the sky will be the 4th box/red box later this year with flappy flap flaps. It will include a flappy game mode for and be a springboard for 40k range refreshes of vespid, jump pack stuff, swooping hawks, nid Gargoyles/Shrikes etc. An only flying new edition is not a game. It is a feature. Also Harlequins losing 'fly' is probably future proof against new 'fly' rules. Insert Jeff Goldblum gif saying *cheeseburger*
All sounds plausible and agreeable, so lets hope!
Yeah, still not watching Valrak. You’re doing me a huge favour translating his stuff into a format I can stand to engage with.
Happy to oblige.
Oh look new boxes nobody can buy.
Last 2 have been fine to get hold of, in the U.K. at least
It's been a lot better in the UK anyway, only the Beta Decima terrain has been hard to get hold of.
I am sorry, but this video seems to be like watching surgeons debating over a dead body.
This iteration of kill team is a fundamentally bad game design. Seriously, the only reason it is even remotely successful is not because it is a good game, but because of the models used to play it. Just like Big 40K.
Honestly the best way to make GW design a better game, is to stop engaging with a bad game entirely.
What suggestions do you have for a fix
You will need to explain exactly how KT'21 is fundamentally bad game design.
From my point of view, having played miniature games for 26+ years (from GW to De Bellis Antiquitatis), KT'21 is one of the company's top two rulesets released since 2001. It's rules promote nuanced, in-game tactical play. It stresses maneuvering much more than typical for GW games. It also has amazing balance despite the number of factions in the system.
The only game that supersedes KT'21 is Underworlds, but it is a boardgame which makes it easier to achieve a balanced environment. Also, when I say these are GW's top games, I also believe their quality stands high among the general gaming crowd.
@@henryrodriguez6260 I don't need to explain anything.
Your logical fallacy of appealing to authority means little, as we can go both go back and forth, waving our grognards in front of each other to see who has the biggest field of experience. In the end, who cares? certainly not I, but you seem to hold such as a justification for how your judgement is better.
Sales also do not equal objective quality.
Again, pretty dollies are why it is popular. Take them away, and you have a shit game using meh models.
You don't expect your mind to be changed, so why the fuck should I entertain justifying my stance to you?
@@Orihutcherson A fundamentally different game engine. Fixing this would be like gold plating a turd. Instead of bothering, gold plate something else of intrinsic value, that isn't based solely on how nice the dollies are.
It's okay, I gave up arguing with 40k players, they will defend GW's poorly written game systems to the Grave and will spit out any suggestions of rules, or trying different game systems like a toddler eating vegetables.
I tried to explain yesterday how the 10th edition Fight phase is silly because if you didn't charge that turn, then your opponent always gets to go first in your own turn wiping out models before they even got to fight. Watched a player get pretty upset when his Blood Thurster died to Custodes before it got to do anything in his turn.
I suggested there are better systems like Battletech. Everyone fires at the same time before models are removed. Told I was too negative and should take my ideas somewhere else.
Like I genuinely don't understand after playing better systems, why the Blood Thurster and Custodes, at least in the fight phase, don't get to both fight before models are removed. I genuinely don't understand how that makes less sense to people than your opponents models fight first in your own turn, and your models die before they get to do anything... but real story