15:30 Small nitpick, Bruno DIDN'T tell Abuela about his vision about Mirabel. The whole reason Bruno disappeared into the walls is so that he wouldn't have to tell anyone about it so that Mirabel wouldn't be shunned like he was.
By that point in the movie the vision of Mirabel destroying things was revealed and on a "Bruno Plaque". So Abuela knows that Bruno had the vision, and it must be from before he "left" since she hasn't seen or heard about him in years. Since she has never seen that vision before, it is logical that Bruno saw the vision and then left the family, therefore Bruno left due to Mirabel.
@@McMindflayer yes it was before he left but he didn't share it and infact distoried it to protect mirabel from abuela. She had no idea till the dinner scene
@@McMindflayer We're told in movie that Abuela asked Bruno to look into the future of the family and then left that night. No other information, and certainly nothing about Mirabel specifically. What Abuela assumes about that is that whatever future Bruno saw made him decide to abandon the family. Until the vision was put in front of her, Abuela had no direct reason to assume that Mirabel was the cause of the trouble rather than the first victim of it. And really the only arguable indirect "proof" of that perspective that Abuela could have was that Antonio's gift ceremony went without issue, since his was the first gift ceremony since Mirabel's.
Explanation Point… I love you. But your “nitpicks” sections clearly indicates you didn’t understand, and didn’t engage with, the entire movie. This entire thing is such a surface level take of the entire film, I kinda think you just created this entire argument based on other peoples takes and based this take on it. All the things you say “don’t make sense” have direct textual reasons, if you treat the characters as characters and not as script lines. There is too much to go into here, but this is a bad take. It’s bad and you should feel bad.
@@Neddyhk "I love you but you only looked at the movie at a surface level despite the amount of in depth analysis you just showed me and you should feel bad" LMFAO
I think an important thing to keep in mind is culture. This story takes place in Colombia in the 1900’s. It would be out of line and very inappropriate for Isabella or Luisa to talk back to Abuela and it’s such a hard mindset to break out of. I think a lot of people see Abuela as more cruel than she’s portrayed because they see themselves in Mirabel. I understand Abuela’s perspective and I don’t think she’s evil. I think her trauma lead her to have certain standards and their culture made it so no one would step up to her. I also see Mirabel’s perspective because being told to step aside and let everyone else set up feels like you’re being told you’re worthless and that feels terrible. I loved your video and I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on it!
Yeah, in Latin America nowadays talking back to an older relative it's still something to be looked down on. I can't imagine how it was 100 years ago in rural Colombia.
This is what I was told, but I'm white, so I'm glad somebody else said it, who I believe is Colombian, so thank you. Although I agree, they could've been more subtle when denoting, where the story takes place, that does not negate the necessity of looking at it through that cultural lens, to fully understand the characters and their motivations, as well as their behaviors.
@@ZeldaWolf2000 in all honesty this isn't a hispanic only thing it's more of the white american thing. nowhere else is it really allowed to talk like that or it is very rare cases where that's the case. from what i heard (and seen) not in japan not in latin america and def not in most european countries
@@LIAuNXeNON that's a good point. I have heard that about other cultures too. I guess I was just zeroing, in on Hispanic, mainly Colombian, culture, because of the movie, but you're right. I might be obvious, but I want to mention either way, that, it's not like we don't respect our parents here, we're just more able to call them out on their bullshit. Also, I can tell you from experience that, many times, even if we do do that, it's not like they listen. I've called my mom out on a lot of her crap before, and she just denies it. We have our own generational trauma. We do not deal with our feelings well at all. Thankfully, I'm trying to break the cycle by actually dealing with my crap, and processing my feelings properly, but not all of us are good at that. Again, thanks for the correction. I love learning about other cultures. I'm just too poor to travel and stuff, but I am learning languages, so that's fun. I've started my Spanish learning journey, and I plan on using Encanto and Coco to help.
Dolores says multiple times that she could hear Bruno the entire time both in "We Don't Talk About Bruno" (with the line "I can always hear him sort of muttering and mumbling" )and in "All of You" (where she explicitly says "I knew he never left, I head him every day"). I mostly think the family is too scared to stand up to Abuela. She is the matriarch of the family and she has been the defacto mayor of the entire town for two generations.
yes, also she probably tried to tell people when he first went into the walls when she was a child, and then was probably told um.... DONT TALK ABOUT BRUNO
Abuela's trauma propagates. It wasn't Abuela who made her hyper sensitive to anything around her. It wasn't abuela who trained her brother to adapt chameleon-like to anybody else. And it wasn't Abuela who made her other brother forsake human contact in favour of his animals. Abuela's trauma created her bipolar mother, her aunt having "samaritan syndrome" (helping others without any self-care) and giving that to HER childre3n, and her sybillic uncle who has learned to serendipidously gauge information and draw conclusions from them, which he is afraid to tell because he's the "bringer of bad news". Encanto isn't about a "villain" Abuela, but about "generational" trauma that propagates through the generations. And it's shown that Abuela had to watch her husband die when her children were babies. In the "behind the scenes" part, that part is elaborated a bit, it seems "Abuelo" was important enough that the city he fled from commemorated him with a statue. "Abuela" also is an authority figure, not in the family, but for the other families as well. She was thrust into this rôle when she had 2-3 babies to take care of, was possibly pregnant with the third, and had to cope with the loss of her husband. Encanto makes it clear there are no "evil stepmothers" or mustache-twirling villains, but everybody does what's necessary to survice. Izabela is as much a "villain" as Abuela, or her aunt. The "happy ending" is everybody in the family finding less destructive ways to cope with generational trauma. Encanto is great for what it is. People who think it was bad for what it isn't have A LOT of other movies they will like better.
The point about most of the stuff being either off-screen or never said directly to Abuela (like Isabela telling her she doesn't want to marry Flynn Rider) is unfortunately cultural differences, speaking as a latin American myself, the generation before myself especially took their parents/grandparents word as gospel, you almost never see people standing up for themselves or challenging their ideas even if they disagree or actively act against them, which isn't to disprove the point mind you, it is bad for a movie and a story and Coco, another movie about latin America, did it much better, but it is an explanation so you're a bit less confused about why that very obvious thing never happened
Coco sucked. "It's a movie about a Mexican family that hates the most iconic musical figure in its' culture." It's subversive nonsense. Book of Life written by ACTUAL Mexicans was far better.
@@Shockguey my god, you again? Do you like everything that's popular? Do you have absolutely no personal grudges with ANY people you have met? Are you even Mexican??
Yup, unfortunately it still happens, my would be mother in law ripped apart my engagement by just making shit up about me and my family and my fiancé at the time took her word for it. Honestly happier without her in my life.
My colombian mother and her sisters got the shit kicked out of them for talking back to their mother as children, it was completely normalized at the time. and even now as adults in their 50s its something her sisters (who never immigrated and stayed firmly rooted to the culture, unlike my mother who came to the US at 23) struggle with. so it does make sense to me that the family would be so hesitant to challenge abuela, but the movie doesn't do a good job of telegraphing that cultural expectation and making it feel like a true barrier for communication
I disagree with your position on abuela; I think it's pretty clear that they don't talk back to her because they can't, and she sees Isabella having some goddamn fun for once and sees that as being 'out of control.'
I think that "out of control" line was pretty damning evidence of the lack of respect Abuela has for Isabella (and by extension, the rest of the family). It pretty explicitly states that she understands to a degree that she is controlling Isabella or wants to and that her having harmless fun is risky behavior that needs to be squashed. When that line happened in the movie, I was like, "Out of control? She's covered in colored powder. All she needs to do is take a bath and wash her clothes. There's nothing 'out of control' about that." Plus, there's Peppa's incessant need to be under control. Clearly her mother never thought to teach her any healthy coping mechanisms to prevent weather-induced disasters. Instead she probably opted for the "sit down, shut up, do as I say" approach. It's her husband or son who come in and try to help her calm down as if she's a wild beast because they don't know how to help her because the people who have been with her longer (mother and siblings) also don't know how to help her.
@@NoiseDay "Out of control? She's covered in colored powder." Um, the whole town was overgrown with her plants, making it difficult for the inhabitants to get around and Abuela watched as one of her plants deliberately hurt someone right in front of her (punched in the face)
I think it's also important to know how similar Isabella looks to young Abuela, and also Mariano to Pedro. It's pretty clear, at least to me, from that, that Abuela was trying to live vicariously through her granddaughter. She wanted to give her the life that she didn't have, but didn't realize that it wasn't what Isabella wanted.
@@BAVy11037 Yeah... I get that she didn't love Mariano, but he seemed like a genuinely great person and did not deserve to be punched in the nose twice
I feel like there's a lot of subtlety that you missed. Isabella and Luisa are rarely criticized by Abuela because they're so accustomed to their roles that it comes like second nature. People are always asking Luisa to do stuff and she doesn't hesitate, but she's also always in the middle of another task when they asked so it's just one thing after another. On the other hand, the fact that you, a Media Understander (complementary), didn't pick up on it supports your initial thesis that it should've been a miniseries. And I think a lot of people watched it like one, going back over scenes to pick up details they missed the first time. It's one of those films that only got so popular because of how the pandemic changed the viewing experience. If it had been released exclusively to theaters it would've had a decent but ultimately disappointing run before the streaming/DVD release, after which it would have exploded into a smaller but super dedicated Twitter/Tumblr fandom.
I'm glad you're pointing out those subtleties. I honestly feel like the movie was very good about not being too subtle... constantly surrounding Luisa with donkeys and using Peppa's weather as a mood barometer felt so clear. As someone who enjoys picking into details like this, I kept excitedly pointing at the screen to point out all those details to my friends when we watched it together.
I think this is just outside his wheelhouse: He's used to Anime Tropes and there being no real "behind the black" character existence. I'm usually pretty even-keeled about people criticizing my favorite cinema (man, there was a dark time after TLJ where I had to be VERY tolerant), but saying it's too "subtle" is based on thinking that characters don't exist outside of what is shown, and that anything not said out loud is not true. It's based on a rejection of the "show, don't tell" mythos.
@@Fureiji88 The comment literally laid out details to pick up on. Luisa's song is literally all about how the issues are beneath the surface and so is Bruno's living situation. The forbidden topic the family doesn't talk about is literally hidden behind the colorful facade! This feels like symbolism 101. Does every movie really need to get as explicit as Turning Red to get the message across? Have we regressed this far in media literacy that even characters spelling out how to read the text doesn't tip us off anymore? Or are you just disappointed that a hyped up movie isn't to your taste and can't just live with that unless the movie has to be objectively bad? Sometimes people don't resonate with good media. Sometimes people resonate with bad media. I just wish everyone could be more honest and reflected about that instead of seeking the reason in devaluing the work. For example, I hate "Parasite". It's a really good movie. But I don't like it. I don't like it because it resonates too much with my daily struggles and worries and makes me sad. I'd still never dream about claiming that this is because it did it's themes wrong or whatever. (Encanto and Parasite are not on the same level, I just needed a pretty uncontroversially good movie)
I remember watching a video once that discussed the strengths and weaknesses of different mediums. It said the greatest strength of Musical Theater, is it's ability to deliver information faster and more directly than any other medium, because the characters can sing very bluntly about their feelings without alienating the audience. For example: Les Miserables, the book, is exceptionally long. The unabridged audiobook is nearly 58 hours. Les Miserables, the musical, manages to fit most of that into a span of 3 hours, by condensing grand events and complex emotional arcs into short catchy songs. I think the reason Encanto doesn't work for you, is because you're analyzing it from the perspective of a traditional movie, when it's conventions are more in line with a musical. The songs are chock full of exposition and implied history, because that's what musicals do; they tell their story through lyrics, rather than show it through character interactions. The audience is meant to believe the grandma is oppressive, not because they're shown it on screen, but because the characters sing passionately about how she feels oppressive to them. Granted, Encanto isn't exactly a musical. And even if you judge it on those terms it's not a great example of the medium. It's kind of a hybrid; a series of music videos strung together by a thin plot. Which might be the key to it's success. Its a mediocre musical, but it's creative and vibrant visuals make it much more appealing to general audiences than something like Hamilton, which is mostly just people standing in a single room.
"key to its' success" There's literally no way to measure its' success. It was thrown on streaming and not allowed to be judged by ticket sales. Just because its' clips are shared by Zoomers who pirated it doesn't mean it's successful. Unless you want to call Morbius social media presence successful.
Yeah, this was my takeaway as well. I'm curious how much musical theater he's actually seen, because a LOT of the setup of the movie's structure is very much in line with musical theater; which makes sense since that's Lin-Manuel Miranda's area of expertise. "The Family Madrigal" is the opening number, which introduces the cast and their roles in the story, doing so quickly while even managing to set up motifs for later songs. (ie. Talk About Bruno & Dos Oruguitas) "Waiting on a Miracle," is the easiest for anyone with a bit of knowledge of musicals to recognize as an "I Want" song, fully establishing what drives the protagonist forward. Then we have a couple "I Am" songs, most notably the aforementioned, "We Don't Talk About Bruno," which serves as a "The Villain Sucks," song. (which establishes Bruno as the villain until the reveal, at which point it is revealed the song was sung by unreliable narrators) A lot of the movie's structure is pretty textbook in terms of musical theater, with a few curveballs and small subversions of tropes here and there to keep it from being _too_ cookie-cutter. I'm not gonna get up on a pedestal and say it's the best musical out there, but yeah, a lot of the complaints and criticisms, *especially* regarding the "show, don't tell" of storytelling, are falling short of realizing the movie is operating on an entirely different set of rules for its narrative. (Encanto actually does "show _and_ tell", the "show" is just a lot more subtle in the animation because the "tell" is at the forefront of the story through its songs)
Yes I agree so badly! I didn't even realize until you pointed it out, but I was thinking how similar the prologue was to Natasha, Pierre, and the Great Comet of 1812, and was wondering if that was why I didn't mind it as badly. Because 1812's prologue is decidedly much more repetitive and long winded than Encanto's, and I still find it very enjoyable. At the beginning of most musicals, there's a boring scene setting song, and that's to be expected and suffered through xD Even so though, I don't think musicals are exempt from internal cohesion? If I judge Encanto as a musical, I think I'd actually end up more disappointed, because there's a tragic lack of repeated motifs :((( there's the butterfly song, sure, and the opening somewhat comes back at the end, and I'm by no means an expert on music, but I didn't notice anything like One Day More in Les Mis, where all the different motifs are tied together perfectly in an Act 1 closer, or parallels like Who Am I and Javert's Suicide, which make explicit character differences. I don't think Encanto does much narratively with its music. It's honestly more like a music album that's tied together with a plot, like the Beatles' Yellow Submarine cartoon.
@@cabbage-soup Agreed! I definitely would have liked to hear more reprises and motifs in general. Unfortunately, I suspect that was more an issue of allotted runtime for the film than it was a lack of artistic desire. Far as I've heard, a *lot* was left on the cutting room floor for this movie to get it to it's final length, so there probably wasn't much that could have been added in that regard. Just looking at Miranda's other musicals, I doubt the man would have passed on the opportunities if he had them.
While I disagree that Encanto is bad, I think it’s quite good actually. I do recognize that a lot of these issues ring true. I also know that part of my joy of this movie is being hispanic and knowing and feeling the generational trauma on a very personal level and plugging in my own experiences to fill in the holes in the story telling.
"part of my joy of this movie is being Hispanic" _AMERICANIZED HISPANIC_ you mean. This movie is massively disrespectful to Hispanic culture in its' direct purpose is disrespect of elders. Which in and of itself is just Boomer bait. "DURR my parents suck maaaaaaan". Which is evident by the fact it was written by a Gen X white guy and a pumpkin spice latina.
Except that's a flat out lie and no actual Hispanic person actually says or feels that cause no movie from enjoying because you are of that culture. That's not how a story gets you into it you schmuck.
11:20 Colombian here. Its an Andinian Coati not to be confused with the Ring Tailed Coati. The former lives on the central mountain chain of Colombia were the movie setting is placed (more or less near the Cocora Valley), while the later lives near the Amazon Rainforest... and yeah it is indeed basically a South American Racoon, they are on the same family after all.
Yeah honestly, I'll have to disagree with this take. The question of "Why doesn't Isabela just tell Abuela she doesn't want to marry someone she doesn't like?", I feel comes from people not understanding how it's like to be put in a household where you're afraid to speak your feelings because of fear of disappointment. Isabella is the "golden child" of the family and because of this, feels the pressures of having to be the perfect child that never speaks out of line or goes against the family's, or just Abuela's, wishes which we see when Abuela says that Isabela is "out of control" in the climax when what she views as her being out of control is Isa just being herself and having fun. It's not that she can't speak out, it's simply that she doesn't want to which is a fear that I have experienced many times. Couple this with the fact of when and where this movie takes place in. It's not only set in Columbia but also in the 20th Century, you have that critique of why exactly do they need to have a big sign that says this takes place in Colombia, but it's important to establish where this movie takes place because of real life events that parallel what happen in this movie's plot. I also feel like some of critiques were levied towards the fanbase and not the movie itself. Why have a whole segment about how some fans view Abuela when that has nothing to do with the actual movie itself? I feel like you're also missing why Luisa was struggling as well. Luisa's struggle isn't just about her feeling like she has to do so much to help out others, it's about how so much of her identity is tied to her powers and how she feels like she is worthless without them. The over-importance of the family's gift plays a hand as to why things are beginning to fall apart and was first shown with Mirabel NOT getting a gift in the first place, because she's the only one who can see these cracks beginning to form. Bruno was shunned because his gift didn't bring anyone anything good, which left to him leaving because he knew it would negatively impact Mirabel. Isabela grew resentment toward her gift and her role in the family because she felt trapped in her role as the golden child and didn't speak out in fear of being a disappointment, and Luisa had her gift become her whole identity. So I don't understand how one could come to conclusion that the Madrigals were a happy family when it is shown repeatedly, even with Pepa's side of the family who didn't get much of a focus, that a lot of them were miserable.
Thank you, I was beginning to doubt my own sanity while watching the video because of this. I feel like so much of this is so clearly readable from stuff like Isabela's cattiness towards Mirabel, which clearly comes from Mirabel seemingly being "allowed" to be imperfect. It melts away the moment Isabela experiences Mirabel as a supportive sister who adores Isabela's imperfections. Or how Luisa's song is kind of a manual for how to read the Madrigal family, with her anxieties being constantly plastered over by the silly dance scenes before reality comes crashing back in. Or Bruno living in the walls. Because he's an issue the family doesn't properly address, so he can't fully go away or fully return. Literally living under the surface of Casita, the family metaphor. "Abuela is nice to Mirabel" Yeah, and also she constantly sidelines Mirabel by making it very clear she's not a helpful part of the family and gaslights her when Mirabel brings up an actual issue Abuela seemingly knows about. "Why doesn't Mirabel have a room" Because the rooms are visibly linked to the gifts! No gift, no room! No room, no gift! That's why the doors flickering and the powers cutting out always coincide! "Why is the music Like That" Because Lin Manuel Miranda put in some actual research and based each song on a popular Columbian music genre. There's some real cool symbolism in the music too. "What's the generational trauma" It literally is to not ask for needs and wants, to sweep issues under the rug and to try fitting into that image of the family who's got it all figured out. That's why eventually the whole village comes in and helps the Madrigal rebuild their house. "Lay down your load/We live only down the road" kind of spells out how the family has been taking on too much responsibility too quietly and how instead, the idea of community is to help each other in any direction. "We have no gifts but we are many" spells out the meaning of Mirabel's whole arc, which is that superpowers shouldn't even be necessary where community exists. I mean! The encanto is literally guarded and shut off until everyone finally speaks up! Agh, I'm sorry. I adore media analysis so the take in the video really frustrated me.
@@Broeckchen These are mostly good rebuttals, but the room one amounts to "just because." Why are the rooms linked to the gifts? Because it helps the storytelling in various ways. Why can't Casita generate a room for Mirabel without first giving her a gift? Because the writers said so and for no other reason. It's not like we have magic houses IRL; there are no pre-established rules for how a magic house is supposed to work, this one is just like that for no stated or implied reason at all. Still, I agree with the rest of your comment.
He sounds like a narcissist who sides with Abuela just because he seems himself in her and legitimately thinks she's in the right when she's not. Unbelievable.. Also, he doesn't seem to understand that Luisa already has a lot of pressure put on her by her grandmother and the town. Saying she should be the one standing up for everyone is missing the point about how she's already pressured to do a lot. This guy didn't seem like he really watched the movie or paid attention to any scene where Luisa was being asked to do everything.
@@ajstudios9210 Why are you trying to psychoanalyze a stranger, using nothing but a youtube video? I get that you disagree with the video, and I do too, but it seems like you're throwing the word "narcissist" around for no good reason. It's just a movie.
@@ajstudios9210 I gotta say I strongly disagree with calling him a narcissist just because of his bad take. People can have bad takes and even lack some compassion without being narcissists amd people can be narcissists without being awful. It's just like he turned his media analysis brain off while watching the movie. It's weird, considering how much he enjoys really tickling the details out of other stuff. I think that's also why it makes me so huffy. Because that makes it feel like he just didn't put in the effort.
As much as I appreciate the "show us Abuela being a tyrant on screen" sentiment generally, I think the greater impact IS in showing us only the implications and aftermath. Mirabel is 15 years old and should be at the height of her rebellious phase, Louisa is a demi-god, Isabela is expected to give up the last real choice she can ever make for herself - they are ALL unwilling to voice their life altering problems. This IS showing us something; even if it leaves the exact nature of "how" to our imagination, whatever she did is frighteningly effective because not one of them considers opposing her for their own sake. These are people who know what happens when someone says no. I think it's CinemaSins level "critique" to see all that and say "Why didn't anyone ask?!".
I feel like it'd also be less effective if she was shown to be this evil coded tyrant. Like, *many* people grow up with a personality like Abuela, and know the complexity of having someone who does love you treat you the way that they do and feeling like you're not able to tell them how they're hurting you because it does come from a place of genuine feelings and in Abuela's case, generational trauma. Arguably the entire point of Abuela's character is that she is the antagonist, but she is not a villain. She is someone who loves but also someone who harms and contains all the complexities that come with that. You would have to strip a lot of that relatable subtlety away in order to code her as a clear villain in the way he says.
@@Cobalt360Degrees having a family member love you but not being able to tell them how they are hurting you? I need to rewatch Encanto and compare Abuela to my dad.
Also, it's important to note that the way abuela deals with her family isn't in shouting matches. It's in little one on one asides in which she implies what they're doing was either wrong or insufficient. Mirabel was literally called out for trying to help with the prep for the kid's party, and for hyping up the family in the village, not sabotaging anything. Imagine the same kind of conversation after Luisa didn't do a 5th super difficult task because she had already done 4 others, or after Isabella had gotten some kind of stain on her pretty dress, or bruno after some superstitious villager got a bad prediction. Even if those conversations are positive, for the sake of the family conversations, that implicit pressure is going to weigh on every one of them on some level. Iike you said, we see an example, and we see the fallout in every family member as they struggle with it. Just because abuela isn't a cartoon tyrant, just because everything she does is coming from a place of love, doesn't make any of it somehow any less harmful, or any less true to life
@@bookreader1997 my biggest gripe with the film is that it RELIES on you to use your imagination. I'm all for subtlety, but this movie instead leaves so much up to us to fill in the blanks that we imagine a better movie with more compelling scenes in our heads and then praise the writers as if they did that? "Oh you have to assume this must have happened at some point" cool I'm sure it did I sure wish I could've SEEN that part. He was right that this movie went through a million revisions and it shows, and there's several deleted scenes or storylines that would've worked much better for the final film but they weren't banger tracks that could play on the radio so *snip snip snip*
"Just step up to your abusive family member" is a bold take to have, particularly as a criticism towards a piece of media about normalized familial abuse.
I think he’s curious about what makes this film important to people despite it showing quite little on screen and leaving said abuse to innuendo. It’s like an inside joke you don’t get. Obviously, it wouldn’t be much of a family film if abuse was portrayed shamelessly on screen. There’s some neglect and pressure portrayed in the start of the film. There’s obviously prejudice brewing in the fabric of the family. But to many it might feel very distant of a struggle because we don’t spend enough time with characters responding to their own struggles - under the context of domestic abuse it would be a bit too heavy for a Disney musical film, wouldn’t it?
But, as he said, the movie didn't put any effort into *showing* that Abuela was an abusive family member. That wouldn't be the case if, say, Abuela screamed at someone stepping up to her, locked them in a room, made them kneel on a bunch of rice on the floor, or did whatever kind of punishment you could think of.
@@enzoqueijao Thing is she's not cartoonishly evil, she's realistically abusive. That's why the movie's good, because it portrays actual nuance in family trauma instead of beating you over the head with the point that you should be nice to family members.
@@1unartic I think that just shows that she's strong and doesn't want to be held down. That doesn't mean it doesn't affect her, it's shown several times that she does feel lesser than but just because she's not teetering on top of a bridge ready to jump doesn't mean it's not a good portrayal of abuse. That's not how it is for most people.
Bruno didn’t leave because of Mirabel. He left because he was afraid Abuela would ostracize her so he took the fall instead. Also, it doesn’t fucking matter why he left, you don’t blame a 9 year old for it that did nothing wrong aside from not receive magic.
It kind of feels like you're trying to force real world logic on a fantasy setting with that last part. In a world where magic clearly exists, is it so unreasonable that a person's mere existence could have negative effects? This is one of the ways fantasy allegories break down upon close inspection. Like the LGBT analogy of X-Men and the infamous scene of Storm (goddess who controls the weather) tells Rouge (teenage girl who can't touch anyone else without killing them) that she's perfect the way she is and doesn't need a cure. In the X-Men universe, some mutations do absolutely make people dangerous and prevent them from living good lives and they would absolutely from being cured. Which is an aspect of the fantasy which doesn't translate to the reality of being LGBT. Bringing this back to Encanto, in the real world family members blaming kids for things going wrong around them over which they have no control is unquestionably abusive because it is unreasonable to think that a child could be responsible for those bad things happening. But is it still unreasonable to think that in a magic world? We as omniscient viewers know that Mirabel doesn't have anything to do with the problems, but the family doesn't have any way of knowing that.
@@SirPhysics I see your point in this. But seeing as Mirabel did not get a gift, there is absolutely no precedent for them to believe she jinxed them in some way that would magically cause Bruno to leave. Believing such a thing would be an ass pull and a terrible excuse as a family member. With the idea of killing people by touching them, if you KNOW that is your ability, that is very different from someone saying "Bruno left after we asked him to look into the future to see why Mirabel didn't get a gift, and he left. Therefore, she must be cursed or this must be her fault." It's a logic leap, and it's trying to assign blame. That's no different than a religious person saying "well, their father died when they were a kid, so they must have done something to deserve it." Regardless of if you are religious or not, if you believe in God or not, blaming a kid for something that they legitimately had no control over is wrong.
@@RealRaven6229 Again you're having trouble separating your omniscience as a viewer from the perspective of the characters. We know that the kid has no control over it, but they don't. In the real world, which has no magic, we know that someone's birth doesn't cause plagues or misfortune because there is no mechanism that would allow that to happen. In the real world it is unreasonable to think that a child is cursed or disliked by God or whatever. A religious person can assign blame to an innocent person via some supernatural explanation, but we know they're wrong because we don't live in a world where supernatural forces exist. Karma isn't real, and so explanations based on karmic justice are wrong. But in worlds where Gods, magic, and curses actually do exist, maybe that kid really is cursed. We don't know, and we can't discard the possibility out of hand the way we can in our real world where curses aren't real. If literally everyone else in this family gets a gift and she doesn't, that's evidence that there may be something strange going on with her, something that could result in the destruction of the house. In a world where magic exists, you don't necessarily have to *do* anything to cause misfortune. If powers that help others exist, powers that hurt others could exist just as easily. This is, incidentally, why religious thinking is so dangerous. If you believe that God exists, and you're convinced that God hates someone to the point that it will cause misfortune to everyone around them (like, for instance, the evangelical pastors who blame America's acceptance of LGBT people for natural disasters, calling them "holy retribution") then you feel extremely justified in persecuting and even executing those people. You believe their mere existence is a threat to everyone around them and so removing them from the community, one way or another, becomes a form of justified self-defense. In a world in which such a petty, vindictive God actually existed, that would be the correct course of action.
@@SirPhysics Either way, they're making a mistake. While I don't agree that there is precedent for a curse, the fact that they blame Mirabel for the ACTION of her uncle is wrong. It's scapegoating. They assume she is cursed or that there is something wrong with her, and as such assign her the role of screwup at best, and accuse her of causing all the harm in their family at worst. Even IF that were the case, and Mirabel's existence WERE causing all these awful things, Mirabel did not do ANYTHING wrong to justify mistreatment from her family, and blaming her when they should be blaming something over which Mirabel has no control is very much so like that dangerous religious thinking you were speaking of. It does not matter if there IS precedent for Mirabel being cursed. At best they are jumping to conclusions by assuming a curse exists or that Mirabel is supernaturally bad or wrong. But even if they thought that were the case, that is absolutely no reason to make her the scapegoat for the actions of OTHER people. If a piano fell on Bruno's head after he looked into Mirabel's future, that would be a SLIGHTLY less egregious failing of the family to assign her the blame. Instead, Bruno LEFT and they blamed her.
In the movie it is actually hinted to be Mirabel's fault. Watch her ceremony then the other kid's ceremony. She wipes her hands after holding the candle but before touching the door. The same thing didn't happen in the other ceremony.
idk, i don't really get how you can't see that abuella's treatment of mirabelle isn't fair since... you literally said it yourself. the problem isn't anything mirabelle is doing, the problem is mirabelle just existing. she somehow started to tear the family apart just by being born, and yeah, she might've made it worse by her actions during the movie, but her original "crime" wasn't anything she could have controlled. she just didn't get a gift.
No, I'm on his side honestly, if Abuela truly believed that Mirabel's existence alone was tearing the family apart, then she was unbelievable accepting of her anyway. But the question is whether she believed Mirabel's existence alone WAS the cause of the cracks. "I don't know why you weren't given a gift, but it's not an excuse for you to hurt this family." Pretty sure Abuela thought Mirabel's actions were to blame, not her existence. Whether or not the cracks were caused by Mirabel's existence, Abuela believed that it was her actions, and had good reason to. It even seems like she felt like Mirabel was doing this on purpose out of bitterness, that she was happy to hurt the family because she never got a gift herself. Yet Abuela, time and time again, asked Mirabel to stop sneaking around and let her handle the situation, only for things to get worse and for Mirabel to be at the center of it. Luisa losing her powers? All started after a talk with Mirabel. Isabella's flowers are damaging the village and hurting people? There she is dancing with Mirabel on the roof without a care in the world. I'd say Abuela was pretty lenient with her based on what she knew about the situation.
If you watch the movie... there is implication she had a gift but failed the ceremony. When she holds the candle the movie very heavily draws attention to her wiping her dress with her hands before touching the handle. Then on the other ceremony we see there is no wiping hands. Straight to the door handle.
@@Feed-Me-Lore I sort of felt that way too. I didn't really like Abuela, but I truly question the people that say she was abusive's understanding of what abuse is. Most of it is a culture that doesn't talk back to elders and tries to meet their expectations. If the elder doesn't know you don't like doing what you are just to make it happy, that's not on the elder. If your spouse asks you if you want the last cookie and you say "no" to make the spouse happy, that's not the spouse being abusive or even manipulative.
@@robinthrush9672 Yeah, I agree. And one thing I particularly dislike when people discuss villains is how they just assume their motivations were malicious when it could very well be a misunderstanding (lowkey applies to the real world aslo). It's like people went into the movie and just didn't pay attention to all the information Abuela had access to, and I've seen a lot of people get mad because they heard Abuela say "Isabella's out of control" and their first thought is "her being happy and having fun is her being out of control?" somehow missing the fact that she was causing pain and destruction in that fun she was having, which was what Abuela witnessed first hand, more than she witnessed Isabella enjoying herself. And not only that, Isabella's whole thing was keeping up a facade of being perfect, which inherently implies she did not and would not allow her true feelings to show, so Abuela had every reason to believe that Isabella really was happy to be getting married just like she said she was. And that's not even getting to the fact that Abuela wanted her family to help the town because she felt it was the moral thing to do for this powerful family to share this gift and to benefit the lives of others, so her accidentally putting a lot of pressure on Luisa came from a place of wanting the best for her people and not realizing Luisa was under pressure to begin with, and Luisa didn't back talk at all, specifically because she felt she needed to carry her burdens quietly even as she was afraid of failing. Sorry to rant a bit at you, I just agree, and found feelings about this topic I didn't know I still had.
Also on the last point of Abuela being justified from her POV, I agree but I also think that's an internet problem of demonizing Abuela, it is very explicitly said in the movie that she was the one with the burden of carrying the family and miracle which led to her acting the way she does, including the mistreatment of Mirabel which as you proved, from her POV is justified. Abuela is not a villain, she's an antagonist to our protagonist Mirabel, they're diametrically opposed with Mirabel trying to get the family to change and Abuela trying to make the family stay static and a pillar for the community, neither of them is right and both of them acted in what they believed was the best they could do for the family, the cracks imo only represent the growing differences between these two positions, neither of which is wrong they just have downsides the other side believes to be irreconcilable (Mirabel would not let Isabela and Luisa suffer under the expectations and Abuela wouldn't let people believe the family is getting lazy or they can't rely on them), as such the cracks show and at the height of it when both of them are doing everything they can to make their positions happen the house falls apart
Others has pointed out that the old school mentality of never talking back is present. Luisa could have been much better I think. She could be an artist or any ambition but just can't leave this duty. Maybe It's unnecessary, but it would be nice. That's it, I think thanks to your comment I understand the movie now
I don’t like encanto, because as Latina who has dealed with generational trauma, it has a TERRIBLE MESSAGE. It’s basically telling everyone that if you feel like Maribel, you should never speak up, never question authority and sacrifice your own happiness to “save the family” We never explore how to solve MARIBEL’s problem, it’s always the family’s problem, the miracle, abuela, Luisa, Isabela…but we never solve the root of Maribel’s issues. She feels like her whole family doesn’t care about her and thinks less of her bcs she doesn’t have a miracle. And no one (aside her mother a few moments after the movie starts) reassured her she they care. That they love her. That she doesn’t have to be anything that the family expects of her to deserve love and a place in her family. Instead she has to fight tooth and nail, mess up, comfort her abuela, and help around the house without powers or a thank you - just to be granted the bare minimum of familial affection from others. In fact, it seems like “surface pressure” can fit Maribel more. Cause she constantly has to put more effort into her work (since she doesn’t have a miracle), help Antonio and reassure him while acting happy, find why the miracle is dying, and ALL with no one looking or helping. Almost like she has to support the burdens of other people, while keeping up the appearances that not having a miracle doesn’t bother her 🫠🫠
Wasn't the act of actually going on to find out what was going on (going against abuela's wishes not to talk about it) and eventually speaking up to her what solved the issues both the family and Mirabel had long-term? What opened abuela's eyes to what her actions and expectations caused within every member of the family was her being forced to confront her own position as a result of Mirabel acting against her. And it actually ends in abuela being both willing and able to give Mirabel the unconditional affection she deserves by being a part of the family not because Mirabel got a gift, "saved" the magic or fulfilled al her wishes. Mirabel didn't get a gift, brought down the house and went against every wish abuela had regarding her. And yet, this is what showed abuela the harm she caused and led her to introspect and understand. Yes, Mirabel did have to fight tooth and nail for any affection from her grandmother, but it is quite explicitly shown that that shouldn't have to be what is necessary, that no one should have to EARN being loved.
Soft disagree. Part of the generational trauma being passed down through the family (mentioned somewhat-ironically in Family Madrigal) is that they need to use their powers to help people, and the movie shows/tells that Abuela will only accept her version of helping people. Isabela is the better version of the under-pressure sister, true. And you can see her being pigeon-holed into the pretty, perfect golden child. However, it's not fair to say that Luisa (while definitely not being as strong a character) doesn't show signs of being overworked, either: if I recall correctly, literally every scene she's in before Surface Pressure has her working in it, so when she starts the song about helping everyone it connects with the previous scenes, recontextualizes them. I will also disagree with your interpretation of Abuela, while also correcting what I think the internet believes of her: she's not some tyrant enforcing her will, she's a scared woman afraid of change. Her song shows she spent years as the sole protector and guide for the family, leaving her inflexible in her beliefs. However, her arc is about learning to listen and reflect when other people tell her what she's doing is harmful, so it's weird that your defend her by saying things are Mirabel's fault from her perspective when it's LITERALLY her greatest flaw that her perspective is too narrow. Also a minor point, but saying trauma doesn't appear happening because everyone in the family is happy misses out on the traumatic effect forced-happiness can have on a family as a whole; however, the movie doesn't do a good job showing this, so the misunderstanding is understandable. I do agree with your other points: we don't know why the magic is dying, Dolores is inconsistent, and Bruno makes little sense in the current version. I suspect the magic was dying because the family was fracturing, but I have no evidence to back that up. Personally, I think the movie would have been stronger had the miracle remained dead: showing the family putting in the work to build the house from the ground up as a metaphor for repairing the family, without the powers that were causing all the issues (or were at least the root cause) is the better ending in my opinion. I don't know how much time you spent writing the analysis, but I think it could have used a few more passes and been punched up a bit more. However, I respect your opinion not to like the movie, and acknowledge there are better movies that depict the same issues; Coco is the better version of this movie even if I do like both. Thanks for the video; I'm looking forward to your "something different" project coming up!
I think the majority of viewers related to Mirabel and had some version of Abuela in their lives. Judging from this video alone, it seems that Explanation Point didn't relate to Mirabel, but Abuela. If you don't relate to the protagonist from the beginning, the rest of the movie falls flat and its flaws are more apparent.
@@NoiseDay I personally didn't relate to either of them (or any of the characters really) and enjoyed and understood what the movie was going for; that isn't and shouldn't be a requirement to understand motivations and subtleties of character building. It feels to me more that EP just went in already viewing the film from an outside/logical perspective and wanted direct examples of what's referenced, rather than just going with the flow or looking for more indirect clues. It's really easy to not give brief or background interactions weight when the movie is already this visually busy, especially when the movie then intends those small events to be the crux of entire songs (like Luisa's.) Took me two viewings to to understand why Isabela was so bitchy to Mirabel -- she is expected to be EXTRA perfect when Mirabel is "excused" from familial expectations -- and I only really saw the whole picture after watching her reactions and expressions. It's a fair preference and criticism imo, just not one I personally needed to enjoy the film.
The Family Madrigal establishes pretty quickly that Alma sees every day as the family working to earn the Miracle (to your point). To some degree, a part of her never really left the river where she lost Pedro, which is why I think the scene with her and Mirabel there at the end works. She spends every day afraid that the Miracle will disappear and that she’ll lose everything she’s gained because of it, so like you said, her arc is letting go of that fear and learning to let the next generation do things their way.
"If someone tried standing up to her & shrugged it off" *stares at the bit DIRECTLY AFTER THE DINNER where Mirabel's parents are going "WHY ARE YOU LIKE THIS" at Abuela* Also, like another comment mentioned, Bruno DIDN'T tell Abuela the vision because he knew how she'd react. Seeing that vision is what made him go into self-imposed exile out of fear of the reactions.
Commenting as I watch: I disagree with the criticism of Luisa. I think it's a somewhat shallow interpretation. I agree that the characters needed more time to be really fleshed out, but I don't think Luisa and Isabella are the same character. They have two different kinds of trauma. Luisa purpose it to be useful, she's capable and confident, or at least that's how she's portrayed. And she's stressed because she doesn't feel as if she's allowed to get a break. Isabella is the face of the family, she's seen as the next generation of Madrigals. So she tries to stay in her lane and fit the image that she's been told to fit. I also disagree with the point that no one stands up to her. We see Mirabel's mother talk to her about it before and after the breaking of the miracle, and we also see how easily she brushes things off that she disagrees with. I don't think Abuela is openly abusive, I think she's ignorantly abusive. She doesn't realize that the things she does hurt those around her, like a lot of families. Most cases of abuse are from people who think that they're doing what's best for those around them. It's far from a perfect movie, but I feel the criticisms you brought up regarding those two points are quite weak.
One of them is dependable, the other is perfect. They both have expectations placed on them, but in very different ways and with different stresses. One supports, the other performs. One is being crushed, the other is being stifled. One is under pressure, the other is trapped.
@@FFKonoko I completely agree. I do think their characters could have benefited from more time fleshing those differences out. But I think a large part of understanding them is based on how much you can relate to them, or maybe know other people who can.
@@naolucillerandom5280 They look upon you in shame. Let's face it, it's not like you give a shit about your family. You're no different than the Whites in Americam
I think what this video has showed me most is that some films rely heavily on the audience filling in the gaps and understanding what's going on. It trusts the audience to fill in the gaps and puts the burden on them to make it make sense. And for a film, which already has a short runtime to begin with, they can be forced to rely on this. In a way I think that's nice, it shows the creators respect their audience enough to be sure they'll understand the situation. And it seems a lot of Encanto's fanbase did. They didn't need to explicitly see Abuela being a bad parent or an overly stern matriarch, we just got it and moved on. But on a textual level it's faulty because it can leave important gaps in the story, and some audience members aren't willing to co-operate or don't want to have to do most of the work. I still think Encanto is a wonderful film, but I can totall see where Explination Point is coming from. I think this film at least needed to be longer to better flesh out most of these elements.
To elaborate on your point about it being faulty on a textual level, for a story about generational trauma like this it is also possible that some audience members are simply unable to fill in the gaps, as they lack the personal experience with the subject to easily do so and possibly don't even realize there's an expectation to fill in the gaps as a result.
@@tamhiding036 Exactly. If you can relate to the characters already then you don't need to movie to spell it out so explicitly, you already get it and can see the subtle hints that gesture towards that. But if you don't relate to it, then you won't be as able to fill in those gaps and the story will feel very tell don't show.
Its all informational shorthand. Comparing someone to a snake? They are deceitful, untrustworthy, selfish, evil. They aren't just bad, they have a specific flavor of bad to them. On a later reviewing though, it might not hold up. That snake comparison starts from somewhere and permeates through specific cultures. With regards to the Bible, it means bad, evil. With regards to the Gadsden flag, it means fiercely independent. How much extra information / runtime would Encanto have to add to get the textual support it needs? And if it did, wouldn't it be less enticing? The audience can't fill in information, they'd have to compare
I think I agree, I think its mainly his content preferences as he said. He tends to review and enjoy series more than movies. In a 12 episode series, having to fill in gaps yourself is annoying because there's so much runtime you should be able to show everything, but in a 90 minute movie it's needed to fill in gaps in your head with implications, at least in this case.
Don't be silly! Luisa can't have Isabella's role in the story because only conventionally attractive (by Hollywood standards) women are allowed to have romantic relationships!
I think the problem with this movie is that it shouldn’t require you to have a specific background to be able to watch it. Amazing film, but a majority of the audience won’t get it unless outside research is done, which SHOULDN’T BE REQUIRED FOR A STANDALONE MOVIE
Don't exactly agree that they should've been willing to voice their grievances to Abuela given the context, but HARD agree that there's like no reason to suspect that their grievances have any merit when we basically never see them going through much on screen.
The thing is, we do see them going through things. We just don't see it from the right perspective, where you realise how toxic their situation is. Abuela says everyone must use their gifts to serve the community. While that is noble, you forget that one needs to take care of themself too. Luisa is *always* busy doing a heavy task (just look at the two scenes she's in before her song, and notice how she uninteruptedly responds to the villagers' requests), but it basically means she never gets a break. Also, when she feels like she was weak for even a moment, she was scared out of her mind by the thought of not being able to be of service like she used to (which is even worse when you think about how Abuela almost indoctrinates the family). Isabela's case is very subtle, but you never see her express her own will before her song. She feels like she has to fulfill the role that Abuela puts on her: To be the perfect exterior and face of the family. Granted, seing most of this takes at least a second viewing before you see all of these things in the right light.
My man really missed the line "under the surface". The intro song tells us how the family os perceived as perfect, happy and stable, even by Mirabel. Then we have a first cotrast to that in the scene where they prepare the party behind closed doors and suddenly there is a tiny bit of bickering and tension. A huge element of the movie is that no one speaks up before Mirabel does. Everyone hides. Luisa does what she's asked for, burying her anxiety in work. Isabella practices secretly to live up to her own hype and gets frustrated when watching Mirabel undermine that effort and getting just as much love from Mama seemingly without ever excelling as much. Luisa and Isabella needed to be separate because one is about never being able to do enough, the other is about being on the pedestal of the golden child and anxiously clinging to it. The Madrigals aren't all happy, oh my Goodness, you entirely missed how anxious Peppa is about her weather constantly. Or how Antonio was incredibly scared of not being accepted without a gift. Julietta being so torn between her mother and daughter. No one *talked* about it until Mirabel did. That was the whole point of it. Their unhappiness was constantly pushed down under the surface in an attempt to present the image expected of them. Which is the trauma Abuela passed down. She always had to be strong and hide her pain and fear to provide for everyone else, and she passed that on to her children. By the end of the story, she wins her family back when she finally makes herself vulnerable to Mirabel. I agree that Turning Red is a fantastic spin on the same themes, but Coco really isn't...
That's kind of the real problem with the film in my opinion. It's very short and breezy in its pacing. This huge ensemble cast and the dynamics have to be gleaned from maybe a few lines of dialogue and a line or two in a song. That's all they get. It makes these things hard to digest because your not even tasting before the next thing is shoved at you.
Love the content, even if i don't agree with a lot of the points in this video. People always say not to yuck someone's yum, but I think it's also important not to overly yum someone's yuck. Not every piece of media needs to be for every person, and we should be allowed to express that both ways
@@Shockguey Quick, genuine question: What does "Americanized latinos" mean to you in the case in which you're using it? Personally, I would hesitate to be reductive by saying that a movie is bad just because it may resonate with particular groups that seem to not include you.
@@grayalmeida9622 Latinos who are ingrained in American culture to the point they don't realize they're just praising recycled stories from the 1960's. There's nothing wrong with being reductive when it's true.
@@Shockguey Well, at least you're honest about that shitty opinion. I'm gonna report this and move on, but I urge you to not label things you don't enjoy as simply for other groups whom you appear to view yourself better than. We all know what that spells
@@grayalmeida9622 These groups claim identity to a culture that they've clearly shed. They are hypocrites. So yes I'm better than them, I recognize a soulless corporate product for what it is.
on another topic, with all of the family members, and their gifts, the youngest, to have their gift, minus Antonio, has had it for 10 years, Luisa has had hers for 14, and Isabella and Dolores for 16 years. Any sort of learned behavior regarding the gifts is definitely solidified by the time of the movie. Isabella has to be perfect, Luisa has to be always doing work around town, etc. In terms of Luisa, always doing work, it's not that she has to protect the town from invaders or anything, but she feels she has to. She grew up hearing the story of how her grandfather, "was lost," (which she would obviously realize later meant killed), by invaders. This, along with what her gift is, along with the pressure from her grandmother to, "make good use," of their gifts, it would definitely make her feel pressured to be the protector. There's also the fact that, whether the villagers can do their own work or not, a lot of things just couldn't happen without Luisa, or would take a lot of time, such as moving a church or bridge or rerouting the river. Without her, the town would definitely have to change to keep operating in the same way. Also, remember, this pressure would've been initially put on a five-year-old! Everybody who had been given gifts, started the pressure when they were five! And the pressure continued until the end of the movie, and by that point, the adults, the triplets, would've had their gifts for 45 years, and, as I said, before, Between 10 and 16 years. I don't know about you, but I would definitely crumble under that sort of pressure. I'd be the Bruno of the family, probably, either that, or almost crumbling lake, Luisa.
This is a good comment! It shows how if you relate the characters (as many do), you love this movie. You can fill in all the gaps with your own experiences. But if you don't already know what it's like to be in a dysfunctional family, you'll feel lost.
Personally I liked the movie, but as a colombian I'll fully admit it was mostly because my experience watching it was me or a friend pointing at the screen every 5 minutes to proclaim "Look they're eating this!" "Look they're wearing that!" "Look they're in that place!" "Oh this is sooo like here!" "Oh this is based on that!" "This is a reference look!" "They said this! They did that! Sooo colombian man soooo relatable so well researched" (And I stand by if, I think regarding the culture the movie was genuinely very well researched) But yeah you're right about pretty much everything about this movie. Specially about Isabela and Luisa not working quite as they're intended to. Idk if the internet demonizing the character of abuela can be used as criticism against the movie itself tho? I never saw her portrayed as evil in the movie, but you're right they didn't show enough of her having too high expectations. You're right alright Except the dinner scene. Idk if it's a colombian thing but I've been on that exact dinner where a harmful rumor mill begins to form and everyone whispers it against their better judgement until someone tells the person that will blow up hearing it and the meal is ruined. I cannot see it as unbelievable man. I just can't.
SomethingI think you didn't notice, when you mentioned that Abuela doesn't critique, Isabella, or correct, her looks, or anything like that, is, during the breakfast scene, when Isabella reacts to Dolores' announcement that Mariano wants 5 babies, all, but one flower that Isabella creates on her head is pink, and Abuela removes that one flower, because she wants Isabella to look "perfect."
Im maybe halfway through this vid, but I feel like the Bruno bit was really misinterpreted. The older family members know Bruno is not evil, but his powers show the cracks in the family. Abuela is obsessed with the family looking strong and capable so the village doesn't have to worry. Bruno shows them all the ugly truth, though. He can't use his powers to coddle the villagers and he can't even really use them to make the family look better. That's why he was estranged. Abuela is the matriarch of the house (which is common in Colombian families), so she decided to shun him and scold anyone who spoke about him. Her children know Bruno is not evil, but they aren't allowed to talk about him. This was instilled in them at a young age. The youngest family members barely know him, so they only know to fear his name. Dolores is still very young and had to grow up knowing she couldn't talk about Bruno living in the walls. If she mentioned it, he'd suffer great consequences. So she has to keep it secret, which is easier to do because the family Does Not Talk About Bruno. They don't even want to mention his name. Mirabel says that she shouldn't have brought up Bruno because of the emotional responses from her family members. Pepa complains about her wedding day, Dolores tells her that she's worried Bruno will be caught living in the walls, Camillo describes him as a rat monster, and Isabela (of course) has some "perfect" prophecy and still finds a reason to complain (which is clarified later in the movie). Mirabel isn't getting a straight answer and no one in the family can tell her why Bruno is so bad because even they don't know. They only know their own experiences with him. She's exasperated and complains that she shouldn't have even brought him up since it just throws everyone in a tizzy. The biggest theme of this movie is generational trauma, abuse, and fear, and it is entrenched in Columbian culture and family dynamics. A lot of the behaviors exhibited in the movie become more clear when viewed through that lens and that culture cannot simply be separated. Some of the things that you claimed "didn't make any sense" are more metaphorical. Mirabel doesn't get a new room because she is being left behind by the family. She was powerless but was loved for her potential. But now she has none, so they dropped her immediately. Isabela and Luisa have very similar struggles. Even Abuela has those same struggles. It represents how women are expected to behave and live within the Madrigal household: Push down your feelings and concerns and look good for the family. Even Pepa has to deal with this. Its a pretty common way of thinking in more community-focused cultures and it can lead to serious problems. I dunno. Your other videos seemed to have a lot more care and interest for nuance. While you raise some semi-decent points here, I don't feel like the same care was given to this movie.
I always thought Luisa was done dirty. I did see her song as her existential crisis because her powers are failing and she has nothing but her strength as a character.
I think an important thing to notice is that as the movie is am allegory for intergenerational trauma, the "powers" of the characters correspond to roles in the dysfunctional family: the "golden child", the "strong one", the emotional bulwark, the one who nurtures and picks up the pieces, the one who has to know everyone's business, the one who tells uncomfortable truths and gets scapegoated, and so on.
Not gonna lie. That video sounded like "I am American" and I don't necessarily mean anything bad for it. I can't expect you to understand things as if you lived your whole life in someone else's shoes... I wanted to explain how it is super believable for me as a brasilian and for my whole family that: 1. Abuela is not evil, but is still the root of all these problems 2. How the gossip kept her mouth shut for years 3. How Luisa and Isabelle's role in the family are diferente 4. Why having such a huge family was essential 5. How come everyone is happily smiling in constant parties, but still falling apart. But to be honest, I would need to either make a 1h long video response or invite you to live with me for a year.
Am half Salvadoran and this was my thought exactly. Like, "why doesn't anyone just speak up to abuela??" ...you wanna die, mfer? either of la chancla or the sheer crushing guilt of knowing your disappointed your abuela who has done everything for you. White americans just don't get it man.
“It looks like abuela fretting about Isabella’s looks constantly because she never Can be perfect enough”. Did you notice when, during breakfast, Isabella sprouts flowers in her hair from the shock when Dolores teases her about how many children Mariano has, and Abuela very non-chalantly picks out the one flower of a different color and throws it away? Subtlety dude. Subtext. Also, as a Mexican… parties like that are honestly not something rare, and it almost never says *anything* about the dynamics of the family or families involved.
Now that I've finished the video, this analysis falls short in many different and disappointing ways with only a handful of valid criticisms. The music in this film does fall victim to typical musical theatre pitfall of "Tell don't show," as well as mentioning strange and unnecessary things that wont matter by the end of the performance. To play advocate for Luisa allegedly never being criticized or controlled by abuela; note how whipped she is in the scenes involving her holding a piano. She doesn't need to HOLD IT UP but when abuela (literally) snaps her fingers or claps her hands, Luisa knows that is her cue to show off for guests. She also helps the entire village without any push back at all. I think it should be clear that abuela has put it into her head that she NEEDS to unflinchingly use her gifts to everyone else's benefits and not talk back or shirk her "duty." I very much agree with your hypothetical of Luisa being the one to stand up to abuela and keep the family from tearing apart, rather than Mirabel. Or that Luisa and Isabella should be combined. I think that you are failing to see how thoroughly controlled the family is by abuela and that's why I vehemently disagree with the last point you make about her not being a manipulator or "bad guy." I agree that she has fair points when she says things are Mirabel's fault, because it seems to be so from her point of view. I agree that we should have seen someone blatantly stand up to her prior to that scene to witness first hand how she reacts to disobedience. It frightens me that you don't understand this next part: You have to understand people can and do hold extravagant parties just to keep appearances in front of others. It may be "hard to believe" but MANY families with abusers can be genuinely happy at certain times, have smiles, and parties but still know that it will quickly go wrong when the abuser is upset by anything. There are so many instances of showing that the Madrigals fear abuela, or at least don't want to upset her in any way, talk back or question her. So unless you're just assuming that every single one of them is spineless and clueless allowing themselves to be walked all over, then you are willfully ignorant to the fact that this sort of kowtowing doesn't happen unless one is AFRAID of the person they are submitting to. Think of it this way.... we never once saw what her power is...
Your last point is especially good and I don't see many other people mentioning it. It's really bizarre to see someone who is old enough to understand how abuse works to think that a person/character can't be happy if they experience abuse in some form. The most abused people I know whose stories would turn your stomach still speak of their abusers in pleasant terms sometimes, because it wasn't always bad. Real people have ups and downs. Real people can still experience moments of happiness or levity even in their darkest times, especially if they're actively working to repress the trauma they're enduring.
@@psychotophatcat some people are so privileged to have never experienced abuse, and alot of those same people have very narrow, cookie-cutter ideas about how abuse looks. That's probably these guys' situation.
"we should have seen someone blatantly stand up to [Alma] prior to that scene to witness first hand how she reacts to disobedience." Actually, we do. The scene where she confronts Julieta and Agustín about the vision, both pretty blatantly confront her with the fact that she isn't considering Mirabel as a part of the family. Alma first deflects to Pepa when Agustín fires back at her, then deflects to the house when Julieta pushes the topic further. It may not be the most memorable scene, sure, but it _does_ exist.
That 109 minute runtime is important, I feel, and I think it's where a majority of your problems (and my own) come from: It chugs along at a breakneck pace and needs the audience to insert their own experience onto the story. I feel as though what Encanto needed was a song about Abuela, ideally right where she screams at Mirabel about breaking the family apart that could just as easily feature Mirabel striking back by pointing out the people in the family were suffering, and not just her... someone to actually stand up to the family matriarch. But I'm also someone who thought that Frozen would have been a better story if Hans wasn't a basic bitch betrayal villain and instead just failed to revive Anna with his kiss because despite what he thought he wasn't actually in love with her (and his attempted regicide on Elsa is a confused heroic attempt to save the dying sister), so what do I know? Edit: Accidentally misremembered the name the one guy Anna fell in love with after one song with the other guy she fell in love with after one song. (It's a miracle she didn't fall in love with the damn snowman...)
in my opinion, she did get her own song, though, or at least she had one with her husband, "Dos Oruguitas"," is there a song. It's a metaphor about change, and how it will eventually come, do you have to deal with it when it comes, I'm on metal things, but that's what I immediately is coming to mind. If you turn on the English subtitles are closed, captions during the movie, and go to that scene, it'll show the direct translation.
@@ZeldaWolf2000 That's not unfair, and it does do more than its fair share of lifting when it comes to establishing the history of the town and family. But like the video points out, it frames her entirely in a sympathetic light and doesn't really leave a place for her to be the accidental villain the movie wants her to be... everyone might be at their breaking point with the pressure she's putting everyone in the family, not just Luisa (a revised version of Surface Pressure, *the actual best song in the movie*, would fit rather well, actually).
I neither love nor hate Encanto & I'm happy that you are willing to say that you don't like it! Too often I see people with "controversial" opinions about media (comics, movies, TV shows, video games, etc.) feel like they can't talk about the problems they have with it because "everyone" either loves/hates it & if you don't agree with "everyone" than you are wrong.
I know I grew up in an bad household, but y'all make it seem like talking back to an adult when you live with them, or respect them, is easy and not at all a scary and stressful thing to even contemplate. Abuela was strong and firm, yes, but it never felt like anyone could, well, talk to her without feeling like they were being talked down to. Abuela had closed herself off to maintain the image of a leader, the unmoving bedrock of not just the family, but the entire community. It's no surprise to me no one in the family would openly speak to her about their feelings and problems. I think you are missing the biggest differences Luisa and Isabella. Luisa is physically strong, but is not emotionally strong. Nearly everytime she's on screen she's lifting some heavy thing that would take multiple people to comfortably move. Why wouldn't EVERYONE in the community ask her to carry the heavy burdens, it's time saving. While she is physically capable, she's always worried about messing up. Oftentimes when someone is always successful, and has not failed, they can have an irrational fear of failure. Hell when her powers do start failing she eventually breaks down crying. Without her strength, who even is Luisa? This is the key difference between Luisa and Isabella. Isabella's gift is growing plants, not being perfect. She practiced her "perfection", whereas Luisa's Gift was strength. Luisa's identity is tied to being "the strong one", tied to her Gift, but Isabella's identity is being "the perfect one", which is tied to her actions and mannerisms, only supported by her Gift. Without her Gift, Isabella can practice hard enough to still be "the perfect one". Even their songs highlight this difference, Luisa's is about constantly feeling the pressure to succeed, of being the big, strong older sister and she wants a goddamn break, to lean on someone's shoulder for a change, because she's clearly a nervous wreck like Pepa, but she's better at bottling it up. Isabella on the other hand has a song that is triggered not by her problems, but on the discovery of something she didn't know ABOUT HERSELF. She for one was okay with going through life being Abuela's perfect granddaughter to the point she practices poses for when she uses her powers. If anything she only thought, not explicitly stated mind you, that following Abuela's plan was fine, if boring. Accidentally sprouting a cactus, something she didn't know she could do, and Abuela definitely didn't know, was all the catalyst she needed to try seeking new things about herself, no perfect blossoms, no perfect smile. Clearly flowers were a major thing with Isabella, most likely because Abuela liked them. Now though, what else can she do that isn't "perfect" but is still hers? She's having fun!
Another thing I forgot to mention in my other comments regarding Dolores, is that she does know when to say something, and not to say stuff. During the dinner scene, she knew her Isabella, doesn't want to marry Mariano, she knew she did, and her way of messing with that engagement, unfortunately involves revealing her cousin's secret. Also, in regards of her, knowing whether Bruno was in the walls, she says, during we don't talk about Bruno, "I can always hear him sort of muttering and mumbling." Keyboard, here, being, "can." Present tense. She also says, later in the song, "I can hear him now." Also, present tense. This is including, obviously, what you mentioned about, "the rats talking in the walls."We're not sure why she kept a Bruno secret, but it's also worth, noting that she was like 11 when he went into the walls, and although he's not her parent, he's still an elder in the family, and she was a kid, so either Bruno asked her to keep her secret, or she felt she had to, or just couldn't tell people. It's also totally possible. She tried to tell people, and they didn't believe her.
This is even more explicit in, "All Of You." "Yo I knew he never left, I heard him every day." So yeah, Dolores definitely knew. It isn't ambiguous in the slightest, so I really don't know how he got confused on this point.
@@firekirby123 neither do I. I think it's also important to realize that, though something may not be logical, to you, it doesn't have to be. It Hass to follow character's inner logic. This doesn't just applied to Dolores obviously, but all of the characters. Look through their eyes as best you can.
I think you're missing an important distinction between Luisa and Isabella's characters (and why they *are* two separate characters): Luisa needs to be strong for the sake of the family. She is, literally and figuratively, holding the family together with her strength. When the cracks start to show, right after Mirabelle looks "Under the Surface", Luisa is suffering. She's hurting. She's *not* strong enough for what's being demanded of her - the pressure of being strong enough to hold their fracturing family together. It's already been proven after Bruno "left" that her grip isn't strong enough to hold onto everyone, and part of her feels like a failure for that. Even if he was the "black sheep" of the family, he was still family. That pressure's been building up more and more, and the general family treatment of Mirabelle probably doesn't help matters because she's *also* being pushed out for not having a gift. Isabella, however, needs to be perfect /specifically/ for Abuela. It's subtle, and I didn't realize this until it was pointed out, Isabella has a strong resemblance to Abuela when Abuela was younger. And, when we look at Isabella's chosen suitor, he has a rather strong resemblance to their deceased grandfather. Abuela is trying to live vicariously through Isabella. She's not dealing with quite the same pressures the rest of the family is. While everyone has to use their gifts for the betterment of the family, Isabella has to be a perfect woman for Abuela to project the life she never got to have onto her. This is also subtly shown during the breakfast scene where Abuela is walking by everyone, reminding Isabella of her future commitment. For a moment, we see Isabella's cracks show and she creates several flowers. We, as the audience, are lead to believe this is excitement, but we later learn that it was frustration. Additionally, one flower was different from the rest, and this flower, specifically, was the one Abuela plucked. This was Abuela reminding her, directly and subtly, what was her place in Abuela's eyes. These pressures on the older siblings are fracturing the family, and, as we later learn, the gifts and the miracle are a direct result of them being a family. If the family falls apart, the magic weakens/dies. That's why Mirabelle doesn't have a gift - her family was the weakest.
In fairness, we do see Julieta stand up for Mirabel and tell Alma to go easy on her only for Alma to brush her off and act like her own concern for the family as a whole is more important. BUT that’s a background shot (easily missable; my wife didn’t catch it until I pointed it out), and it’s really the only overt instance of this that I can think of off the top of my head.
I like your take on the content itself, but I also feel like one of the reasons this movie is so beloved is how well it was constructed stylistically. The telling vs showing issue is certainly there but there is a major difference between a five minute exposition dump about family history and the absolute majesty that is “We Don’t Talk About Bruno”. While being somewhat disconnected from the events of the plot, each characters arc is pretty well brought across by their personalities and the animation and VA that forms those personalities. Isabelle is the prime example. While there is basically no major plot beats establishing where her arc starts and the why she changes in the way she does, everyone watching can see the change happen by how her personality and character design shift. It would be a far better movie if the stylistic elements supported much actual substance, but I think it’s still a major point in favor of the movie and a big reason why it was received so well.
Yeah, it's Brave all over again. I figured the moral was when you're a kid you see you family as either superheroes or magical, but as you grow up that dissipates and you see them as the flawed, struggling people they really were. Til that revelation, you feel unremarkable and the misfit of the family. That's why the ending where they get their magic again kinda disappointed me. I think overall, most of the cast was really charming and well acted. Even if the whole was kind of a mess, the individual parts were entertaining. Encanto could have made a good miniseries.
I didn't agree with the main message of the movie. All of the family's magical talents are metaphors for having successful careers or caregiving roles. Mirabel feels bad because she doesn't do anything that's seen as valuable. For me, this could go one of two ways: either she finds a job/hobby she likes and realizes that you don't have to be born with talent, you can become good at something with a lot of practice, and finds her purpose that way; or she realizes that having an impressive career isn't what's most important to her, and fixes other aspects of her life until she's satisfied with it overall. Instead, Encanto basically says "if you feel insecure because all of your family members are more successful than you, don't worry! They're actually ALL secretly crumbling under the pressure of their high-paying jobs and being admired by everyone! You're actually needed to tell them how much they're suffering so they can get better mentally by not doing so much work!" I never liked the 'everyone better off than you is actually secretly suffering' trope, it always feels like sour grapes to me. One or two people, sure, but everyone??
You know, I’m even of the stance that the abuse that is going on in this household is something that is explained through the way that the characters tend to do common things I directly relate with abuse (like trying to maintain peace without raising an issue or hiding from family members) but even then I have to admit none of this is substantiated by the actual things going on on screen. You make a really good point about the movie showing us absolutely nothing of substance when it comes to the conflict, it feels like those moments of things like Antonio hiding under the bed was part of an earlier draft or a side comment from someone who wanted a little more clearly defined of conflict in the movie but was cut, and it really leaves the movie with the kind of feeling of when you go over to someone’s house and you only see the effects of abuse with a much more functional cover up. Which, I think would be giving them too much credit to say was intended, because, again, the plot is all over the place, the conflict is all over the place, and none of the character’s feelings are backed by actual on screen issues.
4:41, Mirabelle absolutely tells us what her relationship is with her family is. The entire back third of the song is her putting herself aside to refocus the attention on other people, because she doesn't want people to associate her lack of powers with the family she idolizes, because it's how she was raised to act by her grandmother. This is what leads into the tension of her "I want" song, dealing with the neglect that comes from being excluded. The next two songs, meanwhile, use that perspective to highlight the neglect born of expectations in Surface pressure, which then shows how these two things can ruin a life and reputation in We Don't Talk about Bruno. That, in turn, brings us to What Else Can I Do, which is about breaking away from expectations, and actually communicating, and thus being able to do more from a previously restricted situation, making it a hell of a lot easier to at least try to mend a relationship. Which finally leads us to Two Oruguitas, which punctuates a scene telling us why the grandmother, whose enforcement cause much of the strain, acts the way she does in a means of self-reflection, while literally telling the characters to step away from each other a bit, grow up, and reunite for the better. That, in turn, highlights the character growth allowing for the reprise of Family Madrigal, where the home is LITERALLY rebuilt to better service a family together. 6:50, You really didn't notice the themes of excess authority and lack of communication, huh? Not an easy bit for a family movie, but it's pretty damn real. Especially outside South/Central America, where arguing with family, especially older members, is pretty much sacrilege. Social connotation is important. Bruno isolated himself, Abuella refuses to talk about him out of shame (basically all she does to her family), and everyone else (the ones who were young when he left, and his emotionally unstable sister whose wedding was crashed by a storm) just associate the bad memories with the visions they received from him. He's been gone for a decade, and the main characters in We Don't Talk About Bruno are barely older than that. As for Dolores, you start a family argument about the guy in hiding when every word is a migraine in process. Though I do agree it doesn't jive with her gossip personality. I'd say Abuella definitely needed more time for her character, but given how most of her lines are either shutting down Mirabelle or controlling every aspect of Luisa and Isabella's lives, plus the fact that two of her three children are clearly traumatized by what Abuella thinks should be considered gifts, while the third never really speaks to anybody, I'mma say inference can carry a lot where direct visuals don't. Again, communication issues = primary theme. I do agree Coco is absolutely the better put-together movie. Bruno, Dolores, and Pepa are utterly miserable, with the latter two putting on a happy face. Stated pretty explicitly in the movie, especially given all of their powers are both stressors, and prevent them from confronting others, thus furthering the whole "don't communicate" thing. That just leave mom who doesn't talk, cousin shapeshifter, who is criminally underused, and cousin Jungle Book, who feels really out of place barring his ceremony at the beginning. Good wrap up from Abuella's POV though. It can be legitimately hard to argue otherwise if you don't see her fault in the plot. If she had a bit more screentime controlling, like you said, it could definitely be stronger. Still, inference is important, and most people, myself included, could infer Abuella's behavior towards her children and grandchildren well before Bruno or the confrontation. That said, Coco and Turning Red are both excellent alternatives to Encanto. Or ya know, you can watch all three like I did. Lots of stress after each tho. EDIT: A structural thing I noticed. Encanto can be fully understood if you just watch the musical segments, but without them, the story if very scattershot and lacking details. The story is the music, rather than the music supporting the story.
what bugged me the most was that scene where mirabell is trying to... apologize??? to izabella and after their yelling fit are suddenly best friends. as someone with sisters, A YELLING MATCH IS NOT IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY A "YAY OUr PrOBLEMS ArE SOLVED WE'rE BESTIES NOW" just... there was no waiting period. it was literally: im mad at you. well im also mad at you. oh yeah well i'm even more mad. im so mad i made a cactus, wait what. you made a cactus. i made a cactus. you're not perfect so we can be friends now
You know that moment where the faimly is taking a picture and either Mirabel is accidently left out or she feels she should stay out of the photo and starts to cry? That single moment where everyone loves me but I'm still excluded. HIT so close to home. I like it for that moment it's not just relatable that is how I felt.
So, basically this movie falls apart unless you project either a Colombian “you don’t disagree with the matriarch, no matter how unhappy you are” context or a “these few lines from Isabella/Luisa show how abusive Abuela is” sort of analysis.
Feels wrong to say that you have to "project" a Colombian mindset into a movie about Colombian people, but yes, the movie suffers for not providing that context to the viewer.
Wasn't the largest problem with the issues the members of the family had that they had essentially normalised their suffering? They either didn't think of an alternative way to live, like Isabela or Pepa, or did their best to ignore their issues altogether like Luisa. No one talked about it because why would they? Even ignoring the cultural values of respecting elders, bringing up a problem you have with the system the family has in place can very easily be reflected back on you. Everyone else is getting along fine, *you* must be the problem. The last person who failed to live up to their role, Bruno, isn't even talked about now by the rest of the family. Hell, the whole song "We Don't Talk About Bruno" is essentially about how it's better to ignore the uncomfortable truths rather than confront them and see how to work past them. Once someone hears a prediction of the future (or what they think is a prediction), they expect the worst, don't do anything to to work around it, and blame Bruno, who is only guilty if saying that the problem exists. They do this not because they're stupid, but because it's easier to shoot the messenger than acknowledge something's your fault: getting a gut? Maybe you could have eaten better. Your fish died? Did you feed it? Did you check on its health? Your hair's going to fall out?... Okay, not so much you can do about that, but it's easier to blame Bruno than it is to accept that you just got one of the genetic short straws. And when Mirabel says "I never shouldn't brought up Bruno", that's mirroring how when someone mentions something that's wrong, the family doesn't try to fix the problem, they just tell whoever brought it up to stop talking about it. It's paint over the cracks in the walls. Edit: Also, the miracle didn't fail when Mirabel didn't get a power. All of the powers exist to protect the family from a situation like the one that traumatised Abuela (healing, listen for danger, strength, controlling plants, communicating with animals, etc.). They act as another representation of the generational trauma itself. Mirabel not having a gift is supposed to show that she is the member of the family who can break away from the trauma and do something. The Casita chose not to give her a gift, because if she had one, she'd just become another part of the system Abuela put in place. If Abuela views her family via their gifts first and foremost, then having a granddaughter with no gift would highlight that. It would force them to confront the problem rather than avoid it like they always do. Antonio getting a gift, and there being no mention of the miracle failing for the years up until then should have been a strong indicator that the miracle hadn't started failing.
Looking at all the comments, this movie's main problems come from the gap between the culture it's portraying, and the culture it was produced for. The driving forces of the movie are almost entirely things that fall into that gap. Which really leads to one question on my end; why does the movie do almost nothing to portray these important ideas, to an audience for whom they're foreign? If Encanto was originally written in Spanish, for a Latin American audience, and then translated to English, this would be understandable. The primary audience would understand the culture. But Encanto was first and foremost made in English, for an English American audience. An audience for whom family is much less important, and for whom speaking out against your grandparents isn't an unthinkable act of defiance. Why does the movie not lay this out in clear terms? Mulan's opening is almost dedicated to presenting how the Chinese revere their ancestors and the importance of maintaining you family's honor. Ideas that have little impact on the story after Mulan joins the army. There's a song that, in no uncertain terms, tells the viewer that Mulan's the opposite of the culture's "ideal woman", which isn't exactly a driving force in the story either. In Encanto, there's barely a few lines scattered around the entire movie to imply "by the way, people don't speak out against Abuela, not because of any deliberate fear tactics, intimidation, or abuse, but because they respect her and her title as the head of the house, alongside the massive social pressure to not speak out which results from this." You could have an entire song dedicated solely to the how much a character wants to speak out, and can't. That would be a BEAUTIFUL subject for a song that would resonate with rebellious teens, fast food workers, and adults who have to bend to the expectations of corporate hierarchy and out of touch bosses. But does that song exist? We have a song about how one character feels like they have to be perfect, but is it also about how absolute the authority is that demands their perfection?
Abuela isn’t an abuser, she just has toxic habits built on trauma unfortunately that’s to nuanced for internet discourse so people simplify her into being the baddie
I liked Luisa's song because recently three members of my close family died within six months. My little sister is twelve, and her grandma, her uncle and one of her aunts died. I felt as if no matter how sad I was, I had to look after her. My mum was broken after her mother died, and my dad wasn't the same after his siblings died. I watched helplessly as my whole family slowly shattered within six months. We were together, but all sad. As the older sister, I was the one who didn't cry, who didn't break. Long story short, I know what pressure is. So the song hits hard.
There are a lot of points here picking apart what he said in this video, but they all have a problem he already addressed: none of that is actually ever displayed in the movie, only "implied."
Louisa is being used as a pack mule to a degree that she has no time for herself, I think that's it. That's her burden. She feels like she's seen more as a source of labor and not a person. I agree they could have done a lot better, especially with how they did Bruno dirty, but I still liked it.
oh I thought the title was joking, you actually dislike it? this'll be interesting edit: OK I see your point in some places, I disagree w/the Abuela take very strongly... but with all of that your videos are still always entertaining and your use of Agustín in the visual gags cracked me up for some reason
Mr. Point, the candle is a metaphor for burn out. That's why it starts dying and accelerates because when you feel burnout coming people will panic and try to fix it quickly instead of the hard job of letting yourself rest. Mirabel not getting a gift started to snowball negative emotions in the family and during the film they hit critical mass, hence the candle literally burning itself up and going out.
Abuela is not a villain, but I think there's a point to be made that all of the children are over worked and burdened with heavy expectations as it's established Abuela commits them to working for the community as soon as their powers develop at the age of 5. It's literally the day after Antonio's birthday and Abuela is talking about finding a way to put him to work for the town. And the cracks didn't start because of Mirabel, they were happening for years before the start of the movie, as Bruno says. Abuela assumed Bruno left because of Mirabel but he left to protect her from Abuela. We see the way she yells at Peppa, and it is ridiculous to say it's ok to yell at a 15 year old that they are ruining the family. That is a child, a grown ass adult should not be yelling at them for their not malicious actions.
The biggest problem with Encanto is the fact that it's a movie about the bonds of family in which you barely see any member of said family for more than about 2 minutes. And the superpowers are completely pointless beyond the "everyone is special but I'm not" metaphor, it's a gimmick that didn't need to be in the movie.
You know, I’ve been chewing on this thought for a while, and I want to share my thoughts here. Encanto isnt bad… but its not served well by the movie format. It isnt a story about the characters as individuals, its a story about the family as a whole unit, about the complications that come with being a massive family. Its trying to say something different than just ‘family good.’ Its trying to say that a cohesive, loving family is a special, yet fragile thing, and that cracks can easily form between the members and lead to the whole thing falling apart. its a tough story to fit into a 2 hr runtime. so yes I agree that it would be better served by a 12 episode tv show. A short seires that lets every family member breath, have a moment, then move on, with the whole picture of ‘family’ being visible after brushing past each member.
Isabella and Luisa seem the same to you because you’ve completely misinterpreted Luisa’s character. She is a chronic people pleaser who spends so much time on helping the village that she barely knows who she is and has no time for other things she cares about, like her family, which is why the moment near the end where she’s just hanging out with her sisters is so satisfying. “Doing what’s best for the family” is whatever standard Abuela sets because she is the matriarch, she is the head, and her standard is that the Madrigals use their gifts to help the town 24/7 to keep up their reputation and keep them safe, bc that’s the only way she knows how to honor the miracle. Luisa is there as one example of the family’s overcommitment to productivity hurting them internally. Isa is having completely different issues, the ones you pointed out, which stem from the same source as Luisa’s, but manifest totally differently.
Your major complaints so far as I understand them Why didn't Dolores hear Bruno: She did, she explicitly states it several times in "We Don't Talk about Bruno," again speaking up about a long standing issue just to be ignored. No one stood up to Abuela on screen: Mirabel's dad did and recieved explicit support from his wife when Abuela is blaming Mirabel for destroying the family/miracle Abuela should've nitpicked Isa's appearance: Breakfast scene, when the "he want's to have five babies" line pops out and Isa sprouts blooms one is off color, Abuela immediately plucks it off and throws it away, this is done casually and no one reacts, implying it is a normal occurrence Abuela's treatment of Mirabel: Bruno never told Abuela about the vision with Mirabel and the magic failing.
I have just been thinking as I read a lot of these comments, if the issue is that American/white people don’t get the context for the movie (and I think that’s the main problem), why not have written the story to actually have the context within it? Most comments here are basically saying more or less the same thing about how American people don’t get the culture, so why not inform us?
Abuela is the Matriarch of a Columbian Wizard family in the 1900's where her children and grandchildren are walking on eggshells on her because if not, they get ostracized. Abuela wanted nothing more than to make Mirabelle disappear but can't because she is vain as hell, and loves the public images. Take this and compare it to the family functionality of Cinderella, Belle, Mulan, or even Penelope (a bit of a stretch but...)
1 minute in and the dude is already pulling a Lily Peet in terms of political commentary. Like, do these people not realize that this is for a video discussing the merit behind a kids movie?
Come to think of it the movie does squeeze a lot out of assumptions it leads you to have instead of Actual Text. This is a bold title to throw out there, but definitely solid points. Leaves me just wanting to rewatch Coco.
I greatly enjoyed the movie, but I also 100% agree that the movie relies on you believing what it's telling you rather than showing any evidence of it and also that the movie had too much content for too little run time that should have been spread out and expanded in a series instead. A good foundation, but it's really just the cliffnotes instead of a fully fleshed out movie.
There's a lot of comments talking about Latin American culture being the reason no one stands up to Abuela, but you guys are all missing the point. He's saying that, beyond the arranged marriage, there's almost nothing she does for anyone TO stand up to her for. Explanation Point was simply expressing that the bare minimum of at least a throwaway scene or two of someone being angry at her for her actions would've been better than the nothing we got.
It's hard to know where to start, but when you ask why does Mirabel have to stay in the Nursery, it's both complicated and simple at the same time. As you see at the end of the movie, Mirabel's power is the same as Abuela's, in that she keeps the Miracle alive. It's why it goes out when those two fight so directly, or when she doesn't feel like part of the family. Her primary concern has always been the entire family, and encouraging everyone, which you see in the beginning a lot, especially with how much Antonio needs her in the beginning. She is also foreshadowed as the next Abuela in how the kids of the town all care about *her* over the rest of her family. When they were asking about how does she remember everyone in her family, what she (and the audience) hears is they want to know about the family, while what they meant (arguably) is how is *Mirabel* able to remember and care because that's quite amazing to them. While yes, she "deserves" her own room, and it would mean more if she had been offered the choice of having a "normal" room "made" for her, and not one the Casita grants, there's some level of symbolism to her staying in the "nursery" to help the other, younger members of the family, to encourage them, and tell them it's okay to be *them, now.* If you look at the doors, literally all of them with Abuela show them as their adult form/size, what they will *become*. Whereas when Mirabel helps Antonio to his own room, *his* shows him *as he is now.* Abuela has the mindset of what will you become and that's what to strive for, whereas Mirabel's mindset is what you are now is what I love, and will continue to love whatever/whoever you become. Or, you know, I'm just reading too much into it. -shrug- Also, on Luisa, I highly recommend you look up Why Surface Pressure Works & Why It's Catchy by Howard Ho. It does an amazing job of breaking down the song and surrounding info to help explain just how well it shows the pressure Luisa feels to be useful. Because that's the difference between Luisa and Isabell. Luisa is made to feel useful in what she DOES, and is the only one to actively pursue excellence in her power. (We see this in the song when she's exercising first thing in the morning.) She is the middle child who has to contend with the bossy "Perfect Princess" Isabell while also feeling she has to protect Mirabel because her baby sis has no powers, and the easiest way to do that is to try to do *everything* so that Mirabel doesn't. After all, Mirabel has no power, and could get hurt if she tries to do too much! It's the toxic workaholic mindset of have to do everything because I'm the only one who "can" do everything... even when she can't. Isabell, however, has to present the face of perfection, the picture model of just how "together" the Madrigals are. That's why Abuela is so aghast at seeing her dress splotched with colors, because it looks messy and "immature". Isabell's struggle is how she has to mask her feelings, how she presents herself, etc. which is a different kind of mental pressure than what Luisa faces. Still mental pressures, yes, but different kinds.
I’m Latino, lived in Bogota Colombia the first few years of my childhood, and I love other Disney movies like Coco & Luca… I HATED this movie. Lin Manuel Miranda’s lyrics were awkward & bad (and I say that as a fellow boricua🇵🇷), Bruno is treated HORRIBLY by his family & never gets a real apology for it, and the whole conflict with Abuela seemingly causing the house to break & powers to disappear by putting too much pressure on her family was incredibly half baked in execution and its resolution extremely underwhelming & unsatisfying. I liked Mirabel, the Bruno song, the song Carlos Vives did for the movie, and the animation; everything else ranged from underwhelming to actively annoying. Such a disappointment 🤦🏾♂️
What this movie has honestly always felt like to me (as a person who also likes to write and create characters and stories) is that it feels like they said "Wow, let's make some cool characters that have magic powers." Then they thought of things like, "Oh, there has to be a person who has this power, and this one, and it would be REALLY cool if someone also had this power, that would be so interesting!" As in, they thought of the powers first, and how many they could make, and what seemed to be cool. Then they made characters around those powers, and they really liked them. What felt like happened is that the really loved the IDEA of Encanto, a large family with inherited magical powers, except one, Mirabel, and all their struggles and interesting adventures with this idea. That IS the idea of Encanto. Which, isn't a bad idea. However, I think they fell in love with their characters TOO much. They all deserve to have screen time, and be complex, because that is awesome and amazing and we love that. HOWEVER, there IS NOT enough time to dish that all out in a movie. I agree that this should've been a show, and I actually think it would've been a FANTASTIC show. As a movie, there are too many characters. I can understand from a creative standpoint that it's really awesome to have a bunch of awesome characters, and that you REALLY love them, to a point where you don't want to get rid of them. However, sometimes there are simply too many. Or, maybe they don't deserve to be a main characters, just a small side character. All of the Madrigal family members are kind of advertised as main characters, when they shouldn't be. It unfortunately feels like the writers and creatives for the movie really had big ideas, pretty good big ideas. However. I do agree, it feels like it underwent a LOT of revisions, and probably due to a lot of forced cutbacks that limited the creativity and script of the movie. Like hypothetically, maybe Disney said it had to be a short movie because it was marketed towards kids and needed to keep their attention span longer, or maybe since it's a family movie they weren't allowed to go as deep as they wanted to into character development, I don't know, but maybe. It just feels like they were forced to change and alter and cut-down their movie so much that it kind of ruins the story. The story itself is quite complex, and with more time it could of been done BEAUTIFULLY, especially as a short show. There are so many connections you could make between the characters if you had enough time to do it. And, also, the setting is just PERFECT for a show, it was kind of begging to be one. Like, the large house full of rooms that seem like their own world, the jungle, and just the entirety of the village itself, that is such large MAGNIFICIENT setting to drop a show in. There is so much world to explore and go through. It is simply impossible to explore that kind of world in one, 100 minute long movie, especially with it being marked as a kind of staple classic in the Disney timeline. Like The Little Mermaid (cartoon one) is 83 minutes long, and has like, a literal handful of characters? So even though it's shorter than Encanto even, it still justifies the attention it gives to what's important, and maximizes it's time so it only NEEDED to be 83 minutes long. Even at that, we can agree that The Little Mermaid is kind of simple (in a way) right? But it is MUCH better than Encanto because it directed the attention as needed. While I do admit Encanto wasn't my favourite movie, I watched it and I was confused, and it was kind of "eh", I do think it had potential to be a great story, if it was treated correctly. You brought up how it should've been a show and now gosh, that's all I can think about. IT WAS MEANT TO BE A SHOW. Everything about it should've been a show. It feels like a show idea that they tried to fit into a movie runtime because Disney needed a new hit and didn't have any other ideas. It's kind of a shame actually. So I do think it was meant to be a show, and I speculate that due to some directing reason, it was cast into a movie instead (probably because that's where Disney's money and revenue really comes from). I think it was trying to say too much and explore too many things in one go, while it really needed to be something like a show that has moments of filler fun and deep troubles mixed throughout that gives a full resolution in the end. Like, maybe halfway through the show the magic starts to die, and in the last episode the house falls apart and has to be rebuilt. I don't know, that's my own take on it. The movie felt too rushed when I watched it, and at the same time it felt like nothing happened. It deserved to be something greater.
true encanto for me is like they where trying to do something but then say "lets make it for babies cuz real family conflict is traumatic" now we have a movie that is way too afraid of showing actual family arguments and just have characters that somewhat have some related personalities so that the people would forget about the plot
My fanfic brain just kicked in with that idea of a more overtly villainous Abuela and a more explicitly Cassandra'd Bruno. Call it Encanto AU: As a child Bruno is scared of his gift and doesn't use it much. At some point he's playing with a friend who asks him to show off his power; he's hesitant but eventually gives in and shows a vision of something bad happening. The child freaks out and thinks Bruno has cursed him to *make* the bad thing happen and runs away. Bruno of course runs home crying and tells Abuela about it. She comforts him like a good grandma and asks him to show her something too, just to get his mind off it and get him used to using his power. That's when he gets the vision of the miracle dying. Abuela fears their family will be ruined if this gets out, so she uses her special connection to the miracle to place a charm/hex on all the other family members through it: That they will never believe in his predictions. And just to be sure, she also tells them that she was mistaken about Bruno's ability, that he *does* cause the bad things to happen rather than just seeing them coming. After Mirabel doesn't get a gift, she shuts Bruno away and keeps Mirabel in the nursery to make sure the two never meet, because if Mirabel isn't connected to the magic she's not affected by the charm and will be able to see and believe Bruno's visions. This would also explain an insistence on Isabela getting married as fast as possible: Abuela knows their power is going to be gone soon, so she wants to get at least one more of her grandchildren into a stable family before she loses all leverage. Might not fully fit, but I'd say it's an interesting thought.
To be fair about the sign… domestic audience is American and from personal experience, more than half of the audience likely would have assumed that the movie takes place in Mexico. You could take an average American to Spain and half expect the American to assume that the people there were all descended from Mexicans. I wish this was a joke.
Im reading the comments, seeing that you didnt understand the underlyings reasons why isabella didnt confront abuela. But, thats kinda the point that you were trying to make, that, they dont show it If they had shown us that isabella tried that and didnt worked. Like, showing us a flash back or something, it would be believebly But, with it doenst being the case, then its all just assuming.
I enjoy the video, and I can see why you would have a different take on it from people who have dealt with this kind of situation. Speaking as a person with a culture that is similar in how family dynamics develop and are dealt with, this is VERY accurate. People “read into” the story because it’s intended to emulate a specific family experience. In a lot of households, you don’t even think to question or stick up for yourself EVER, especially not against an elder or your parents. People can be “happy” or “content” in that family structure but that doesn’t make it healthy. It’s not just “not sticking up for yourself”. Culturally people can receive violence as a result of being “disrespectful” and since that’s different for every person you’re taught to fear those individuals.
You talk about how abuela isn't as evil as the internet says and that's kinda an issue. Here me out. The general take on Abuela is wrong. A lot of people come from a very Western disneyfied field of view on films. People expect a villian and she is the closest thing. BUT Abuela is the antagonist. This doesn't make her a villian. I found her as a character to be interested because of this. She's meant to be relatable, especially to those with intergenerational trauma in the family, not your average Disney viewer. Your points on the show, not tell are very true, though I think the film was aiming for portrayal of those issues in the same way a musical would; using the songs to show them and move the plot along. Though I definitely agree this does produce issues in the show don't tell department. The film is very entrenched in musical tropes like that. Honestly, my biggest gripe with the film though is the ending. It ends too fast. They should have taken longer to flesh out the ending, to solve the conflict which is jarring.
Strong disagree on how the movie handles Abuela’s antagonistic role, but other commenters have explained that a lot better than I could. You hit the nail on the head with ‘it should have been a miniseries’, though, since that would’ve helped flesh out and give narrative justifications for characters like Louisa’s and Isabel’s feelings. Personally, though it’s not without flaws, Encanto really spoke to me and I felt it had a very nuanced and empathetic portrayal of generational trauma. Interesting video as always m8.
One thing about the “Colombian” squirrels. Those are Coatís (singular coatí) and they’re quite playful. They’re a protected species now, but people used to poach them and had them for pets
Thank you for this video. I no longer feel crazy for not being enraptured by this movie as everyone else was as the only other critics I saw for this move was people saying “they speak Spanish = the end of the world” and I felt like maybe I was missing something? The only thing keeping me sane was the knowledge that my family felt the same way. So thank you for explaining my thoughts in this video in such a clear manner
I watched it expecting to come out loving it as much as everyone else, but the whole thing felt hollow and forced. Seems to be a small group that feels that way though.
Fully agree on the show don't tell. My god did I feel frustrated seeing the line on Wikipedia that the opening song was intended as "proof" that twelve main characters can be efficiently introduced. As if the purpose of stories is to efficiently introduce their characters instead of showing them through the story...
i came here ready to throw down but it looks like the comments have already said it pretty well. Analyzing a musical as if it's a non-muslical movie and also not taking columbian culture into account
It's funny. When my partner and me watched Encanto we both loved it, but when we talked about ut we found the same issues. The vibes and intended message is what we enjoyed, but noted the film itself failed to convey them. We also noted Abuela was pretty reasonable overall, with an aggro focus on Maribel.....as you stated, reasonably so. Def gonna file this one under "Disney can't write stories anymore"
13:54 if i may nit-pick, abuela does fret about isabela’s appearance because she can’t be perfect enough on screen, it’s just not completely on the nose about it: when she’s talking about her boyfriend coming over, she says “everything will be perfect” as she plucks the one white flower next to a bunch of pink flowers that have sprouted in her hair out.
I think Encanto is mid because of plasticity animation, songs are fine, story is pretty weak. It’s all resolved immediately at the end like a baby movie, it doesn’t have the magic, it’s not the only one, examples: lightyear, Raya and the last dragon, strange world, these are all 5-6 out of ten movies
Okay, I made a separate comment semi-defending Encanto but this is the comment that matters: Encanto is a mafia movie. Abuela is an old matriarch of a small Colombian town where she is the defacto ruler and seemingly has final say over anything and everything that goes on there. The madrigals have at least one enforcer in Luisa although you could theoretically call Isabella one since it's clear that her plants can do severe damage. Julieta can heal people so if anyone is acting up you can just roll her and Luisa through and break someone's legs and then force feed them tamales until they agree to comply with The Family. They also have no fewer than three informants in the form of Dolores who can hear everyone in the entire town all the time, Camilo who can look and sound like anyone (so he can spy on the people Abuela thinks are dangerous to the family), and Antonio who can get Toucans and other animals to snitch on the rest of the town. Pepa is shown to help water crops so if suddenly there isn't a big enough harvest for the town then I guess the people the Madrigals don't like are getting fewer rations. Even Bruno could look into the future and see if anyone might try and overthrow The Family. I would love to get a version of Encanto where the incredibly obvious and sinister uses of these powers are on display.
One point you missed: the reason Mirabel doesn’t have a room is because there is *literally* no place for her in this family. The casa responds to the dynamics of the family more than their orders, which is why it cracks when they argue. In this family, a child is *only* given a room when they get their power. Before that, they are not a Madrigal. Abuela is the exception to this because she does have a place, as the family’s leader, and thus even without a power she has a room.
Hard disagree with this take and I'm just going to break it down on what the movie is going for and why it didn't do as bad of a job you are saying it did. 1. The songs really are great because they actually do convey the necessary information you are suppose to have that you somehow keep missing. The first song sung by Mirabel tells the viewer a few key things, a) family has superpowers, b) here is everyone in the family and the dynamics of said family, c) she clearly loves them enough to have this song ready to go for anyone who asks and, d) she tries to not mention she doesn't have any powers. This is a very important thing to note for it matters for the rest of the movie because this is a family trait and you will see examples of it throughout the entire movie. Her little cousin hiding under her bed because he is afraid of not getting a power is also important because it shows the 2nd coping mechanism to hard problems is hiding. This family either ignores the problem or they hide from it, remember these 2 things. Songs sung by Luisa and Isabella further hammer this home with Luisa trying to ignore she is losing her powers and has been for awhile, the song tells us why and when it ends she goes back to dealing with the towns burdens her sisters clearly can't do. Isabella is also just dealing with the fact she has to get married when she doesn't want to while, again, the song explains why. 2. "We don't talk about Bruno" clearly was the only song you got but you missed another vital clue that is the terrifying implications on how Dolores power works with the line of hearing rats in the walls. This is important not because she clearly does know Bruno is there but just how far/detailed she can hear. Towards the end of the movie, she even reveals she can hear the man of her dreams conversations with his mom. This implies she can hear the entire town at all times, and explains why she believes Mirabel on the magic is dying because she just heard Luisa confirming it earlier in the day with her song. We also find out later Bruno definitely talks to the rats and has most likely mentioned why he is hiding to the rats, which would give Dolores a reason not to expose the reason he is hiding and decides to hide that fact that he is hiding. Again this is what this family does best. 3. Grandma is the magic, and she is losing it because the entire family, including her are too busy not addressing major issues. She is not the villain of the story, running anyway from your problems is the villain and Grandma just happens to represent this the most. She ignored several problems dealing with the family/magic and takes her anger out on Mirabel when she can no longer ignore it. Hence the magic house breaking down. So what does Mirabel do? She runs and hides because trying to solve the problem is not working and creating more problems while getting her feelings hurt. Grandma gets confronted about this, admits she is wrong, and finds Mirabel hiding in the one place Grandma has been trying run from her entire adult life, where her husband died. Not sure why you are surprised the internet blew things out of proportion and exaggerates how evil the Grandma is but whatever. The theme here is address your problems and face your social fears. That is what Mirabel's power is, glorified problem solving. For all this complaining about show vs tells, you really missed the forest for the trees here and the cohesive narrative with different story telling mediums interwoven to tell it.
Encanto is a musical, so it only makes sense that the music is key to understanding the characters and themes. If you don't investigate the story though its songs, you've skipped the story! As much as I enjoy your videos (and will continue to, subscribed!), I think you missed basically every mark this time. Also, comparing this story to Coco, with Coco as the option that "treat[s] those issues with all the depth and care they deserve"? How!? Coco, the Mexican story with border control in the Land of the Dead, handling a story with care? Maybe I'm misremembering (it's been years), but all I recall was a bad twist villain and the issue of the family hating music being less resolved and more ignored as the living family somehow took cues from events that happened in the Land of the Dead (and that it was all just a misunderstanding in the end). I dunno, I just thought Coco was a fairly empty movie supported by gorgeous visuals and stunning character designs. But I'm probably just missing or forgetting details, or maybe it just wasn't for me.
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15:30 Small nitpick, Bruno DIDN'T tell Abuela about his vision about Mirabel. The whole reason Bruno disappeared into the walls is so that he wouldn't have to tell anyone about it so that Mirabel wouldn't be shunned like he was.
By that point in the movie the vision of Mirabel destroying things was revealed and on a "Bruno Plaque". So Abuela knows that Bruno had the vision, and it must be from before he "left" since she hasn't seen or heard about him in years. Since she has never seen that vision before, it is logical that Bruno saw the vision and then left the family, therefore Bruno left due to Mirabel.
@@McMindflayer yes it was before he left but he didn't share it and infact distoried it to protect mirabel from abuela. She had no idea till the dinner scene
@@McMindflayer We're told in movie that Abuela asked Bruno to look into the future of the family and then left that night. No other information, and certainly nothing about Mirabel specifically. What Abuela assumes about that is that whatever future Bruno saw made him decide to abandon the family. Until the vision was put in front of her, Abuela had no direct reason to assume that Mirabel was the cause of the trouble rather than the first victim of it. And really the only arguable indirect "proof" of that perspective that Abuela could have was that Antonio's gift ceremony went without issue, since his was the first gift ceremony since Mirabel's.
Explanation Point… I love you. But your “nitpicks” sections clearly indicates you didn’t understand, and didn’t engage with, the entire movie.
This entire thing is such a surface level take of the entire film, I kinda think you just created this entire argument based on other peoples takes and based this take on it.
All the things you say “don’t make sense” have direct textual reasons, if you treat the characters as characters and not as script lines. There is too much to go into here, but this is a bad take. It’s bad and you should feel bad.
@@Neddyhk "I love you but you only looked at the movie at a surface level despite the amount of in depth analysis you just showed me and you should feel bad" LMFAO
I think an important thing to keep in mind is culture. This story takes place in Colombia in the 1900’s. It would be out of line and very inappropriate for Isabella or Luisa to talk back to Abuela and it’s such a hard mindset to break out of. I think a lot of people see Abuela as more cruel than she’s portrayed because they see themselves in Mirabel. I understand Abuela’s perspective and I don’t think she’s evil. I think her trauma lead her to have certain standards and their culture made it so no one would step up to her. I also see Mirabel’s perspective because being told to step aside and let everyone else set up feels like you’re being told you’re worthless and that feels terrible. I loved your video and I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on it!
Yeah, in Latin America nowadays talking back to an older relative it's still something to be looked down on. I can't imagine how it was 100 years ago in rural Colombia.
colombia not columbia
This is what I was told, but I'm white, so I'm glad somebody else said it, who I believe is Colombian, so thank you. Although I agree, they could've been more subtle when denoting, where the story takes place, that does not negate the necessity of looking at it through that cultural lens, to fully understand the characters and their motivations, as well as their behaviors.
@@ZeldaWolf2000 in all honesty this isn't a hispanic only thing it's more of the white american thing. nowhere else is it really allowed to talk like that or it is very rare cases where that's the case. from what i heard (and seen) not in japan not in latin america and def not in most european countries
@@LIAuNXeNON that's a good point. I have heard that about other cultures too. I guess I was just zeroing, in on Hispanic, mainly Colombian, culture, because of the movie, but you're right.
I might be obvious, but I want to mention either way, that, it's not like we don't respect our parents here, we're just more able to call them out on their bullshit. Also, I can tell you from experience that, many times, even if we do do that, it's not like they listen. I've called my mom out on a lot of her crap before, and she just denies it. We have our own generational trauma. We do not deal with our feelings well at all. Thankfully, I'm trying to break the cycle by actually dealing with my crap, and processing my feelings properly, but not all of us are good at that.
Again, thanks for the correction. I love learning about other cultures. I'm just too poor to travel and stuff, but I am learning languages, so that's fun. I've started my Spanish learning journey, and I plan on using Encanto and Coco to help.
Dolores says multiple times that she could hear Bruno the entire time both in "We Don't Talk About Bruno" (with the line "I can always hear him sort of muttering and mumbling" )and in "All of You" (where she explicitly says "I knew he never left, I head him every day"). I mostly think the family is too scared to stand up to Abuela. She is the matriarch of the family and she has been the defacto mayor of the entire town for two generations.
yes, also she probably tried to tell people when he first went into the walls when she was a child, and then was probably told um.... DONT TALK ABOUT BRUNO
Don't forgett he mantra that everybody said in the titular song: we don't talk about Bruno.
Abuela's trauma propagates. It wasn't Abuela who made her hyper sensitive to anything around her. It wasn't abuela who trained her brother to adapt chameleon-like to anybody else. And it wasn't Abuela who made her other brother forsake human contact in favour of his animals.
Abuela's trauma created her bipolar mother, her aunt having "samaritan syndrome" (helping others without any self-care) and giving that to HER childre3n, and her sybillic uncle who has learned to serendipidously gauge information and draw conclusions from them, which he is afraid to tell because he's the "bringer of bad news".
Encanto isn't about a "villain" Abuela, but about "generational" trauma that propagates through the generations. And it's shown that Abuela had to watch her husband die when her children were babies. In the "behind the scenes" part, that part is elaborated a bit, it seems "Abuelo" was important enough that the city he fled from commemorated him with a statue. "Abuela" also is an authority figure, not in the family, but for the other families as well. She was thrust into this rôle when she had 2-3 babies to take care of, was possibly pregnant with the third, and had to cope with the loss of her husband.
Encanto makes it clear there are no "evil stepmothers" or mustache-twirling villains, but everybody does what's necessary to survice. Izabela is as much a "villain" as Abuela, or her aunt. The "happy ending" is everybody in the family finding less destructive ways to cope with generational trauma. Encanto is great for what it is. People who think it was bad for what it isn't have A LOT of other movies they will like better.
The point about most of the stuff being either off-screen or never said directly to Abuela (like Isabela telling her she doesn't want to marry Flynn Rider) is unfortunately cultural differences, speaking as a latin American myself, the generation before myself especially took their parents/grandparents word as gospel, you almost never see people standing up for themselves or challenging their ideas even if they disagree or actively act against them, which isn't to disprove the point mind you, it is bad for a movie and a story and Coco, another movie about latin America, did it much better, but it is an explanation so you're a bit less confused about why that very obvious thing never happened
Coco sucked.
"It's a movie about a Mexican family that hates the most iconic musical figure in its' culture."
It's subversive nonsense. Book of Life written by ACTUAL Mexicans was far better.
@@Shockguey my god, you again? Do you like everything that's popular? Do you have absolutely no personal grudges with ANY people you have met? Are you even Mexican??
@@Shockguey 🙄
@@naolucillerandom5280 Yes, actually born there.
I'll keep shitting on this corporate garbage that literally tries to Copyright Day of the Dead.
Yup, unfortunately it still happens, my would be mother in law ripped apart my engagement by just making shit up about me and my family and my fiancé at the time took her word for it. Honestly happier without her in my life.
My colombian mother and her sisters got the shit kicked out of them for talking back to their mother as children, it was completely normalized at the time. and even now as adults in their 50s its something her sisters (who never immigrated and stayed firmly rooted to the culture, unlike my mother who came to the US at 23) struggle with. so it does make sense to me that the family would be so hesitant to challenge abuela, but the movie doesn't do a good job of telegraphing that cultural expectation and making it feel like a true barrier for communication
I disagree with your position on abuela; I think it's pretty clear that they don't talk back to her because they can't, and she sees Isabella having some goddamn fun for once and sees that as being 'out of control.'
I think that "out of control" line was pretty damning evidence of the lack of respect Abuela has for Isabella (and by extension, the rest of the family). It pretty explicitly states that she understands to a degree that she is controlling Isabella or wants to and that her having harmless fun is risky behavior that needs to be squashed. When that line happened in the movie, I was like, "Out of control? She's covered in colored powder. All she needs to do is take a bath and wash her clothes. There's nothing 'out of control' about that."
Plus, there's Peppa's incessant need to be under control. Clearly her mother never thought to teach her any healthy coping mechanisms to prevent weather-induced disasters. Instead she probably opted for the "sit down, shut up, do as I say" approach. It's her husband or son who come in and try to help her calm down as if she's a wild beast because they don't know how to help her because the people who have been with her longer (mother and siblings) also don't know how to help her.
@@NoiseDay "Out of control? She's covered in colored powder."
Um, the whole town was overgrown with her plants, making it difficult for the inhabitants to get around and Abuela watched as one of her plants deliberately hurt someone right in front of her (punched in the face)
I think it's also important to know how similar Isabella looks to young Abuela, and also Mariano to Pedro. It's pretty clear, at least to me, from that, that Abuela was trying to live vicariously through her granddaughter. She wanted to give her the life that she didn't have, but didn't realize that it wasn't what Isabella wanted.
@@BAVy11037 Yeah... I get that she didn't love Mariano, but he seemed like a genuinely great person and did not deserve to be punched in the nose twice
@@NoiseDay "harmless fun"
We never actually see her remove the plants herself. Which means they have to get someone to do it.
I feel like there's a lot of subtlety that you missed. Isabella and Luisa are rarely criticized by Abuela because they're so accustomed to their roles that it comes like second nature. People are always asking Luisa to do stuff and she doesn't hesitate, but she's also always in the middle of another task when they asked so it's just one thing after another.
On the other hand, the fact that you, a Media Understander (complementary), didn't pick up on it supports your initial thesis that it should've been a miniseries. And I think a lot of people watched it like one, going back over scenes to pick up details they missed the first time. It's one of those films that only got so popular because of how the pandemic changed the viewing experience. If it had been released exclusively to theaters it would've had a decent but ultimately disappointing run before the streaming/DVD release, after which it would have exploded into a smaller but super dedicated Twitter/Tumblr fandom.
I'm glad you're pointing out those subtleties. I honestly feel like the movie was very good about not being too subtle... constantly surrounding Luisa with donkeys and using Peppa's weather as a mood barometer felt so clear. As someone who enjoys picking into details like this, I kept excitedly pointing at the screen to point out all those details to my friends when we watched it together.
I think this is just outside his wheelhouse: He's used to Anime Tropes and there being no real "behind the black" character existence. I'm usually pretty even-keeled about people criticizing my favorite cinema (man, there was a dark time after TLJ where I had to be VERY tolerant), but saying it's too "subtle" is based on thinking that characters don't exist outside of what is shown, and that anything not said out loud is not true.
It's based on a rejection of the "show, don't tell" mythos.
@@Neddyhk Yes, exactly. Encanto did a good job in making stuff noticeable if you pay attention, but doesn't spell everything out.
Except there was never anything to pick up on
@@Fureiji88 The comment literally laid out details to pick up on. Luisa's song is literally all about how the issues are beneath the surface and so is Bruno's living situation. The forbidden topic the family doesn't talk about is literally hidden behind the colorful facade! This feels like symbolism 101.
Does every movie really need to get as explicit as Turning Red to get the message across? Have we regressed this far in media literacy that even characters spelling out how to read the text doesn't tip us off anymore?
Or are you just disappointed that a hyped up movie isn't to your taste and can't just live with that unless the movie has to be objectively bad?
Sometimes people don't resonate with good media. Sometimes people resonate with bad media. I just wish everyone could be more honest and reflected about that instead of seeking the reason in devaluing the work.
For example, I hate "Parasite". It's a really good movie. But I don't like it. I don't like it because it resonates too much with my daily struggles and worries and makes me sad. I'd still never dream about claiming that this is because it did it's themes wrong or whatever.
(Encanto and Parasite are not on the same level, I just needed a pretty uncontroversially good movie)
I remember watching a video once that discussed the strengths and weaknesses of different mediums. It said the greatest strength of Musical Theater, is it's ability to deliver information faster and more directly than any other medium, because the characters can sing very bluntly about their feelings without alienating the audience.
For example:
Les Miserables, the book, is exceptionally long. The unabridged audiobook is nearly 58 hours.
Les Miserables, the musical, manages to fit most of that into a span of 3 hours, by condensing grand events and complex emotional arcs into short catchy songs.
I think the reason Encanto doesn't work for you, is because you're analyzing it from the perspective of a traditional movie, when it's conventions are more in line with a musical. The songs are chock full of exposition and implied history, because that's what musicals do; they tell their story through lyrics, rather than show it through character interactions. The audience is meant to believe the grandma is oppressive, not because they're shown it on screen, but because the characters sing passionately about how she feels oppressive to them.
Granted, Encanto isn't exactly a musical. And even if you judge it on those terms it's not a great example of the medium. It's kind of a hybrid; a series of music videos strung together by a thin plot. Which might be the key to it's success. Its a mediocre musical, but it's creative and vibrant visuals make it much more appealing to general audiences than something like Hamilton, which is mostly just people standing in a single room.
"key to its' success"
There's literally no way to measure its' success. It was thrown on streaming and not allowed to be judged by ticket sales.
Just because its' clips are shared by Zoomers who pirated it doesn't mean it's successful. Unless you want to call Morbius social media presence successful.
Yeah, this was my takeaway as well. I'm curious how much musical theater he's actually seen, because a LOT of the setup of the movie's structure is very much in line with musical theater; which makes sense since that's Lin-Manuel Miranda's area of expertise. "The Family Madrigal" is the opening number, which introduces the cast and their roles in the story, doing so quickly while even managing to set up motifs for later songs. (ie. Talk About Bruno & Dos Oruguitas) "Waiting on a Miracle," is the easiest for anyone with a bit of knowledge of musicals to recognize as an "I Want" song, fully establishing what drives the protagonist forward. Then we have a couple "I Am" songs, most notably the aforementioned, "We Don't Talk About Bruno," which serves as a "The Villain Sucks," song. (which establishes Bruno as the villain until the reveal, at which point it is revealed the song was sung by unreliable narrators) A lot of the movie's structure is pretty textbook in terms of musical theater, with a few curveballs and small subversions of tropes here and there to keep it from being _too_ cookie-cutter. I'm not gonna get up on a pedestal and say it's the best musical out there, but yeah, a lot of the complaints and criticisms, *especially* regarding the "show, don't tell" of storytelling, are falling short of realizing the movie is operating on an entirely different set of rules for its narrative. (Encanto actually does "show _and_ tell", the "show" is just a lot more subtle in the animation because the "tell" is at the forefront of the story through its songs)
Yes I agree so badly! I didn't even realize until you pointed it out, but I was thinking how similar the prologue was to Natasha, Pierre, and the Great Comet of 1812, and was wondering if that was why I didn't mind it as badly. Because 1812's prologue is decidedly much more repetitive and long winded than Encanto's, and I still find it very enjoyable.
At the beginning of most musicals, there's a boring scene setting song, and that's to be expected and suffered through xD
Even so though, I don't think musicals are exempt from internal cohesion? If I judge Encanto as a musical, I think I'd actually end up more disappointed, because there's a tragic lack of repeated motifs :(((
there's the butterfly song, sure, and the opening somewhat comes back at the end, and I'm by no means an expert on music, but I didn't notice anything like One Day More in Les Mis, where all the different motifs are tied together perfectly in an Act 1 closer, or parallels like Who Am I and Javert's Suicide, which make explicit character differences. I don't think Encanto does much narratively with its music. It's honestly more like a music album that's tied together with a plot, like the Beatles' Yellow Submarine cartoon.
@@cabbage-soup Agreed! I definitely would have liked to hear more reprises and motifs in general. Unfortunately, I suspect that was more an issue of allotted runtime for the film than it was a lack of artistic desire. Far as I've heard, a *lot* was left on the cutting room floor for this movie to get it to it's final length, so there probably wasn't much that could have been added in that regard. Just looking at Miranda's other musicals, I doubt the man would have passed on the opportunities if he had them.
hardleg, it's super nice to see you here! like ppl whose Content I enjoy make good takes on other Content I enjoy.
While I disagree that Encanto is bad, I think it’s quite good actually. I do recognize that a lot of these issues ring true.
I also know that part of my joy of this movie is being hispanic and knowing and feeling the generational trauma on a very personal level and plugging in my own experiences to fill in the holes in the story telling.
You personally liking and relating to something /=/ it being actually good
@@wubwubdododo5656 yeah that’s what I said lol
@@wubwubdododo5656 cool. No-one asserted that and you didn't assert any position of your own.
"part of my joy of this movie is being Hispanic"
_AMERICANIZED HISPANIC_ you mean. This movie is massively disrespectful to Hispanic culture in its' direct purpose is disrespect of elders.
Which in and of itself is just Boomer bait. "DURR my parents suck maaaaaaan".
Which is evident by the fact it was written by a Gen X white guy and a pumpkin spice latina.
Except that's a flat out lie and no actual Hispanic person actually says or feels that cause no movie from enjoying because you are of that culture. That's not how a story gets you into it you schmuck.
11:20 Colombian here. Its an Andinian Coati not to be confused with the Ring Tailed Coati. The former lives on the central mountain chain of Colombia were the movie setting is placed (more or less near the Cocora Valley), while the later lives near the Amazon Rainforest... and yeah it is indeed basically a South American Racoon, they are on the same family after all.
Well, they're adorable!
Yeah honestly, I'll have to disagree with this take. The question of "Why doesn't Isabela just tell Abuela she doesn't want to marry someone she doesn't like?", I feel comes from people not understanding how it's like to be put in a household where you're afraid to speak your feelings because of fear of disappointment. Isabella is the "golden child" of the family and because of this, feels the pressures of having to be the perfect child that never speaks out of line or goes against the family's, or just Abuela's, wishes which we see when Abuela says that Isabela is "out of control" in the climax when what she views as her being out of control is Isa just being herself and having fun. It's not that she can't speak out, it's simply that she doesn't want to which is a fear that I have experienced many times. Couple this with the fact of when and where this movie takes place in. It's not only set in Columbia but also in the 20th Century, you have that critique of why exactly do they need to have a big sign that says this takes place in Colombia, but it's important to establish where this movie takes place because of real life events that parallel what happen in this movie's plot. I also feel like some of critiques were levied towards the fanbase and not the movie itself. Why have a whole segment about how some fans view Abuela when that has nothing to do with the actual movie itself?
I feel like you're also missing why Luisa was struggling as well. Luisa's struggle isn't just about her feeling like she has to do so much to help out others, it's about how so much of her identity is tied to her powers and how she feels like she is worthless without them. The over-importance of the family's gift plays a hand as to why things are beginning to fall apart and was first shown with Mirabel NOT getting a gift in the first place, because she's the only one who can see these cracks beginning to form. Bruno was shunned because his gift didn't bring anyone anything good, which left to him leaving because he knew it would negatively impact Mirabel. Isabela grew resentment toward her gift and her role in the family because she felt trapped in her role as the golden child and didn't speak out in fear of being a disappointment, and Luisa had her gift become her whole identity. So I don't understand how one could come to conclusion that the Madrigals were a happy family when it is shown repeatedly, even with Pepa's side of the family who didn't get much of a focus, that a lot of them were miserable.
Thank you, I was beginning to doubt my own sanity while watching the video because of this. I feel like so much of this is so clearly readable from stuff like Isabela's cattiness towards Mirabel, which clearly comes from Mirabel seemingly being "allowed" to be imperfect. It melts away the moment Isabela experiences Mirabel as a supportive sister who adores Isabela's imperfections.
Or how Luisa's song is kind of a manual for how to read the Madrigal family, with her anxieties being constantly plastered over by the silly dance scenes before reality comes crashing back in.
Or Bruno living in the walls. Because he's an issue the family doesn't properly address, so he can't fully go away or fully return. Literally living under the surface of Casita, the family metaphor.
"Abuela is nice to Mirabel"
Yeah, and also she constantly sidelines Mirabel by making it very clear she's not a helpful part of the family and gaslights her when Mirabel brings up an actual issue Abuela seemingly knows about.
"Why doesn't Mirabel have a room"
Because the rooms are visibly linked to the gifts! No gift, no room! No room, no gift! That's why the doors flickering and the powers cutting out always coincide!
"Why is the music Like That"
Because Lin Manuel Miranda put in some actual research and based each song on a popular Columbian music genre. There's some real cool symbolism in the music too.
"What's the generational trauma"
It literally is to not ask for needs and wants, to sweep issues under the rug and to try fitting into that image of the family who's got it all figured out. That's why eventually the whole village comes in and helps the Madrigal rebuild their house. "Lay down your load/We live only down the road" kind of spells out how the family has been taking on too much responsibility too quietly and how instead, the idea of community is to help each other in any direction. "We have no gifts but we are many" spells out the meaning of Mirabel's whole arc, which is that superpowers shouldn't even be necessary where community exists.
I mean! The encanto is literally guarded and shut off until everyone finally speaks up!
Agh, I'm sorry. I adore media analysis so the take in the video really frustrated me.
@@Broeckchen These are mostly good rebuttals, but the room one amounts to "just because." Why are the rooms linked to the gifts? Because it helps the storytelling in various ways. Why can't Casita generate a room for Mirabel without first giving her a gift? Because the writers said so and for no other reason. It's not like we have magic houses IRL; there are no pre-established rules for how a magic house is supposed to work, this one is just like that for no stated or implied reason at all.
Still, I agree with the rest of your comment.
He sounds like a narcissist who sides with Abuela just because he seems himself in her and legitimately thinks she's in the right when she's not. Unbelievable.. Also, he doesn't seem to understand that Luisa already has a lot of pressure put on her by her grandmother and the town. Saying she should be the one standing up for everyone is missing the point about how she's already pressured to do a lot. This guy didn't seem like he really watched the movie or paid attention to any scene where Luisa was being asked to do everything.
@@ajstudios9210 Why are you trying to psychoanalyze a stranger, using nothing but a youtube video? I get that you disagree with the video, and I do too, but it seems like you're throwing the word "narcissist" around for no good reason. It's just a movie.
@@ajstudios9210 I gotta say I strongly disagree with calling him a narcissist just because of his bad take. People can have bad takes and even lack some compassion without being narcissists amd people can be narcissists without being awful.
It's just like he turned his media analysis brain off while watching the movie. It's weird, considering how much he enjoys really tickling the details out of other stuff.
I think that's also why it makes me so huffy. Because that makes it feel like he just didn't put in the effort.
As much as I appreciate the "show us Abuela being a tyrant on screen" sentiment generally, I think the greater impact IS in showing us only the implications and aftermath. Mirabel is 15 years old and should be at the height of her rebellious phase, Louisa is a demi-god, Isabela is expected to give up the last real choice she can ever make for herself - they are ALL unwilling to voice their life altering problems. This IS showing us something; even if it leaves the exact nature of "how" to our imagination, whatever she did is frighteningly effective because not one of them considers opposing her for their own sake. These are people who know what happens when someone says no. I think it's CinemaSins level "critique" to see all that and say "Why didn't anyone ask?!".
Extremely well said, and so concise too, thumbs up
I feel like it'd also be less effective if she was shown to be this evil coded tyrant. Like, *many* people grow up with a personality like Abuela, and know the complexity of having someone who does love you treat you the way that they do and feeling like you're not able to tell them how they're hurting you because it does come from a place of genuine feelings and in Abuela's case, generational trauma. Arguably the entire point of Abuela's character is that she is the antagonist, but she is not a villain. She is someone who loves but also someone who harms and contains all the complexities that come with that.
You would have to strip a lot of that relatable subtlety away in order to code her as a clear villain in the way he says.
@@Cobalt360Degrees having a family member love you but not being able to tell them how they are hurting you? I need to rewatch Encanto and compare Abuela to my dad.
Also, it's important to note that the way abuela deals with her family isn't in shouting matches. It's in little one on one asides in which she implies what they're doing was either wrong or insufficient. Mirabel was literally called out for trying to help with the prep for the kid's party, and for hyping up the family in the village, not sabotaging anything. Imagine the same kind of conversation after Luisa didn't do a 5th super difficult task because she had already done 4 others, or after Isabella had gotten some kind of stain on her pretty dress, or bruno after some superstitious villager got a bad prediction. Even if those conversations are positive, for the sake of the family conversations, that implicit pressure is going to weigh on every one of them on some level.
Iike you said, we see an example, and we see the fallout in every family member as they struggle with it. Just because abuela isn't a cartoon tyrant, just because everything she does is coming from a place of love, doesn't make any of it somehow any less harmful, or any less true to life
@@bookreader1997 my biggest gripe with the film is that it RELIES on you to use your imagination. I'm all for subtlety, but this movie instead leaves so much up to us to fill in the blanks that we imagine a better movie with more compelling scenes in our heads and then praise the writers as if they did that? "Oh you have to assume this must have happened at some point" cool I'm sure it did I sure wish I could've SEEN that part. He was right that this movie went through a million revisions and it shows, and there's several deleted scenes or storylines that would've worked much better for the final film but they weren't banger tracks that could play on the radio so *snip snip snip*
"Just step up to your abusive family member" is a bold take to have, particularly as a criticism towards a piece of media about normalized familial abuse.
Basically.
I still think he made some good points, but by god. he didn’t just miss the mark, he turned around the gun and shot his firing instructor.
I think he’s curious about what makes this film important to people despite it showing quite little on screen and leaving said abuse to innuendo. It’s like an inside joke you don’t get. Obviously, it wouldn’t be much of a family film if abuse was portrayed shamelessly on screen. There’s some neglect and pressure portrayed in the start of the film. There’s obviously prejudice brewing in the fabric of the family. But to many it might feel very distant of a struggle because we don’t spend enough time with characters responding to their own struggles - under the context of domestic abuse it would be a bit too heavy for a Disney musical film, wouldn’t it?
But, as he said, the movie didn't put any effort into *showing* that Abuela was an abusive family member. That wouldn't be the case if, say, Abuela screamed at someone stepping up to her, locked them in a room, made them kneel on a bunch of rice on the floor, or did whatever kind of punishment you could think of.
@@enzoqueijao Thing is she's not cartoonishly evil, she's realistically abusive. That's why the movie's good, because it portrays actual nuance in family trauma instead of beating you over the head with the point that you should be nice to family members.
@@1unartic I think that just shows that she's strong and doesn't want to be held down. That doesn't mean it doesn't affect her, it's shown several times that she does feel lesser than but just because she's not teetering on top of a bridge ready to jump doesn't mean it's not a good portrayal of abuse. That's not how it is for most people.
Bruno didn’t leave because of Mirabel. He left because he was afraid Abuela would ostracize her so he took the fall instead. Also, it doesn’t fucking matter why he left, you don’t blame a 9 year old for it that did nothing wrong aside from not receive magic.
It kind of feels like you're trying to force real world logic on a fantasy setting with that last part. In a world where magic clearly exists, is it so unreasonable that a person's mere existence could have negative effects?
This is one of the ways fantasy allegories break down upon close inspection. Like the LGBT analogy of X-Men and the infamous scene of Storm (goddess who controls the weather) tells Rouge (teenage girl who can't touch anyone else without killing them) that she's perfect the way she is and doesn't need a cure. In the X-Men universe, some mutations do absolutely make people dangerous and prevent them from living good lives and they would absolutely from being cured. Which is an aspect of the fantasy which doesn't translate to the reality of being LGBT.
Bringing this back to Encanto, in the real world family members blaming kids for things going wrong around them over which they have no control is unquestionably abusive because it is unreasonable to think that a child could be responsible for those bad things happening. But is it still unreasonable to think that in a magic world? We as omniscient viewers know that Mirabel doesn't have anything to do with the problems, but the family doesn't have any way of knowing that.
@@SirPhysics I see your point in this. But seeing as Mirabel did not get a gift, there is absolutely no precedent for them to believe she jinxed them in some way that would magically cause Bruno to leave. Believing such a thing would be an ass pull and a terrible excuse as a family member.
With the idea of killing people by touching them, if you KNOW that is your ability, that is very different from someone saying "Bruno left after we asked him to look into the future to see why Mirabel didn't get a gift, and he left. Therefore, she must be cursed or this must be her fault." It's a logic leap, and it's trying to assign blame. That's no different than a religious person saying "well, their father died when they were a kid, so they must have done something to deserve it." Regardless of if you are religious or not, if you believe in God or not, blaming a kid for something that they legitimately had no control over is wrong.
@@RealRaven6229 Again you're having trouble separating your omniscience as a viewer from the perspective of the characters. We know that the kid has no control over it, but they don't. In the real world, which has no magic, we know that someone's birth doesn't cause plagues or misfortune because there is no mechanism that would allow that to happen. In the real world it is unreasonable to think that a child is cursed or disliked by God or whatever. A religious person can assign blame to an innocent person via some supernatural explanation, but we know they're wrong because we don't live in a world where supernatural forces exist. Karma isn't real, and so explanations based on karmic justice are wrong.
But in worlds where Gods, magic, and curses actually do exist, maybe that kid really is cursed. We don't know, and we can't discard the possibility out of hand the way we can in our real world where curses aren't real. If literally everyone else in this family gets a gift and she doesn't, that's evidence that there may be something strange going on with her, something that could result in the destruction of the house. In a world where magic exists, you don't necessarily have to *do* anything to cause misfortune. If powers that help others exist, powers that hurt others could exist just as easily.
This is, incidentally, why religious thinking is so dangerous. If you believe that God exists, and you're convinced that God hates someone to the point that it will cause misfortune to everyone around them (like, for instance, the evangelical pastors who blame America's acceptance of LGBT people for natural disasters, calling them "holy retribution") then you feel extremely justified in persecuting and even executing those people. You believe their mere existence is a threat to everyone around them and so removing them from the community, one way or another, becomes a form of justified self-defense. In a world in which such a petty, vindictive God actually existed, that would be the correct course of action.
@@SirPhysics Either way, they're making a mistake. While I don't agree that there is precedent for a curse, the fact that they blame Mirabel for the ACTION of her uncle is wrong. It's scapegoating. They assume she is cursed or that there is something wrong with her, and as such assign her the role of screwup at best, and accuse her of causing all the harm in their family at worst. Even IF that were the case, and Mirabel's existence WERE causing all these awful things, Mirabel did not do ANYTHING wrong to justify mistreatment from her family, and blaming her when they should be blaming something over which Mirabel has no control is very much so like that dangerous religious thinking you were speaking of. It does not matter if there IS precedent for Mirabel being cursed. At best they are jumping to conclusions by assuming a curse exists or that Mirabel is supernaturally bad or wrong. But even if they thought that were the case, that is absolutely no reason to make her the scapegoat for the actions of OTHER people. If a piano fell on Bruno's head after he looked into Mirabel's future, that would be a SLIGHTLY less egregious failing of the family to assign her the blame. Instead, Bruno LEFT and they blamed her.
In the movie it is actually hinted to be Mirabel's fault.
Watch her ceremony then the other kid's ceremony. She wipes her hands after holding the candle but before touching the door. The same thing didn't happen in the other ceremony.
idk, i don't really get how you can't see that abuella's treatment of mirabelle isn't fair since... you literally said it yourself. the problem isn't anything mirabelle is doing, the problem is mirabelle just existing. she somehow started to tear the family apart just by being born, and yeah, she might've made it worse by her actions during the movie, but her original "crime" wasn't anything she could have controlled. she just didn't get a gift.
No, I'm on his side honestly, if Abuela truly believed that Mirabel's existence alone was tearing the family apart, then she was unbelievable accepting of her anyway. But the question is whether she believed Mirabel's existence alone WAS the cause of the cracks. "I don't know why you weren't given a gift, but it's not an excuse for you to hurt this family." Pretty sure Abuela thought Mirabel's actions were to blame, not her existence. Whether or not the cracks were caused by Mirabel's existence, Abuela believed that it was her actions, and had good reason to. It even seems like she felt like Mirabel was doing this on purpose out of bitterness, that she was happy to hurt the family because she never got a gift herself. Yet Abuela, time and time again, asked Mirabel to stop sneaking around and let her handle the situation, only for things to get worse and for Mirabel to be at the center of it. Luisa losing her powers? All started after a talk with Mirabel. Isabella's flowers are damaging the village and hurting people? There she is dancing with Mirabel on the roof without a care in the world. I'd say Abuela was pretty lenient with her based on what she knew about the situation.
If you watch the movie... there is implication she had a gift but failed the ceremony.
When she holds the candle the movie very heavily draws attention to her wiping her dress with her hands before touching the handle. Then on the other ceremony we see there is no wiping hands. Straight to the door handle.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 that is not implied people just made it up that there is any connection between those events
@@Feed-Me-Lore I sort of felt that way too. I didn't really like Abuela, but I truly question the people that say she was abusive's understanding of what abuse is. Most of it is a culture that doesn't talk back to elders and tries to meet their expectations. If the elder doesn't know you don't like doing what you are just to make it happy, that's not on the elder. If your spouse asks you if you want the last cookie and you say "no" to make the spouse happy, that's not the spouse being abusive or even manipulative.
@@robinthrush9672 Yeah, I agree. And one thing I particularly dislike when people discuss villains is how they just assume their motivations were malicious when it could very well be a misunderstanding (lowkey applies to the real world aslo). It's like people went into the movie and just didn't pay attention to all the information Abuela had access to, and I've seen a lot of people get mad because they heard Abuela say "Isabella's out of control" and their first thought is "her being happy and having fun is her being out of control?" somehow missing the fact that she was causing pain and destruction in that fun she was having, which was what Abuela witnessed first hand, more than she witnessed Isabella enjoying herself. And not only that, Isabella's whole thing was keeping up a facade of being perfect, which inherently implies she did not and would not allow her true feelings to show, so Abuela had every reason to believe that Isabella really was happy to be getting married just like she said she was. And that's not even getting to the fact that Abuela wanted her family to help the town because she felt it was the moral thing to do for this powerful family to share this gift and to benefit the lives of others, so her accidentally putting a lot of pressure on Luisa came from a place of wanting the best for her people and not realizing Luisa was under pressure to begin with, and Luisa didn't back talk at all, specifically because she felt she needed to carry her burdens quietly even as she was afraid of failing.
Sorry to rant a bit at you, I just agree, and found feelings about this topic I didn't know I still had.
Also on the last point of Abuela being justified from her POV, I agree but I also think that's an internet problem of demonizing Abuela, it is very explicitly said in the movie that she was the one with the burden of carrying the family and miracle which led to her acting the way she does, including the mistreatment of Mirabel which as you proved, from her POV is justified. Abuela is not a villain, she's an antagonist to our protagonist Mirabel, they're diametrically opposed with Mirabel trying to get the family to change and Abuela trying to make the family stay static and a pillar for the community, neither of them is right and both of them acted in what they believed was the best they could do for the family, the cracks imo only represent the growing differences between these two positions, neither of which is wrong they just have downsides the other side believes to be irreconcilable (Mirabel would not let Isabela and Luisa suffer under the expectations and Abuela wouldn't let people believe the family is getting lazy or they can't rely on them), as such the cracks show and at the height of it when both of them are doing everything they can to make their positions happen the house falls apart
Others has pointed out that the old school mentality of never talking back is present.
Luisa could have been much better I think. She could be an artist or any ambition but just can't leave this duty. Maybe It's unnecessary, but it would be nice.
That's it, I think thanks to your comment I understand the movie now
I don’t like encanto, because as Latina who has dealed with generational trauma, it has a TERRIBLE MESSAGE. It’s basically telling everyone that if you feel like Maribel, you should never speak up, never question authority and sacrifice your own happiness to “save the family”
We never explore how to solve MARIBEL’s problem, it’s always the family’s problem, the miracle, abuela, Luisa, Isabela…but we never solve the root of Maribel’s issues. She feels like her whole family doesn’t care about her and thinks less of her bcs she doesn’t have a miracle.
And no one (aside her mother a few moments after the movie starts) reassured her she they care. That they love her. That she doesn’t have to be anything that the family expects of her to deserve love and a place in her family.
Instead she has to fight tooth and nail, mess up, comfort her abuela, and help around the house without powers or a thank you - just to be granted the bare minimum of familial affection from others.
In fact, it seems like “surface pressure” can fit Maribel more. Cause she constantly has to put more effort into her work (since she doesn’t have a miracle), help Antonio and reassure him while acting happy, find why the miracle is dying, and ALL with no one looking or helping. Almost like she has to support the burdens of other people, while keeping up the appearances that not having a miracle doesn’t bother her 🫠🫠
Wasn't the act of actually going on to find out what was going on (going against abuela's wishes not to talk about it) and eventually speaking up to her what solved the issues both the family and Mirabel had long-term? What opened abuela's eyes to what her actions and expectations caused within every member of the family was her being forced to confront her own position as a result of Mirabel acting against her.
And it actually ends in abuela being both willing and able to give Mirabel the unconditional affection she deserves by being a part of the family not because Mirabel got a gift, "saved" the magic or fulfilled al her wishes. Mirabel didn't get a gift, brought down the house and went against every wish abuela had regarding her. And yet, this is what showed abuela the harm she caused and led her to introspect and understand. Yes, Mirabel did have to fight tooth and nail for any affection from her grandmother, but it is quite explicitly shown that that shouldn't have to be what is necessary, that no one should have to EARN being loved.
Soft disagree. Part of the generational trauma being passed down through the family (mentioned somewhat-ironically in Family Madrigal) is that they need to use their powers to help people, and the movie shows/tells that Abuela will only accept her version of helping people.
Isabela is the better version of the under-pressure sister, true. And you can see her being pigeon-holed into the pretty, perfect golden child. However, it's not fair to say that Luisa (while definitely not being as strong a character) doesn't show signs of being overworked, either: if I recall correctly, literally every scene she's in before Surface Pressure has her working in it, so when she starts the song about helping everyone it connects with the previous scenes, recontextualizes them.
I will also disagree with your interpretation of Abuela, while also correcting what I think the internet believes of her: she's not some tyrant enforcing her will, she's a scared woman afraid of change. Her song shows she spent years as the sole protector and guide for the family, leaving her inflexible in her beliefs. However, her arc is about learning to listen and reflect when other people tell her what she's doing is harmful, so it's weird that your defend her by saying things are Mirabel's fault from her perspective when it's LITERALLY her greatest flaw that her perspective is too narrow.
Also a minor point, but saying trauma doesn't appear happening because everyone in the family is happy misses out on the traumatic effect forced-happiness can have on a family as a whole; however, the movie doesn't do a good job showing this, so the misunderstanding is understandable.
I do agree with your other points: we don't know why the magic is dying, Dolores is inconsistent, and Bruno makes little sense in the current version. I suspect the magic was dying because the family was fracturing, but I have no evidence to back that up. Personally, I think the movie would have been stronger had the miracle remained dead: showing the family putting in the work to build the house from the ground up as a metaphor for repairing the family, without the powers that were causing all the issues (or were at least the root cause) is the better ending in my opinion.
I don't know how much time you spent writing the analysis, but I think it could have used a few more passes and been punched up a bit more. However, I respect your opinion not to like the movie, and acknowledge there are better movies that depict the same issues; Coco is the better version of this movie even if I do like both.
Thanks for the video; I'm looking forward to your "something different" project coming up!
I think the majority of viewers related to Mirabel and had some version of Abuela in their lives. Judging from this video alone, it seems that Explanation Point didn't relate to Mirabel, but Abuela. If you don't relate to the protagonist from the beginning, the rest of the movie falls flat and its flaws are more apparent.
@@NoiseDay I personally didn't relate to either of them (or any of the characters really) and enjoyed and understood what the movie was going for; that isn't and shouldn't be a requirement to understand motivations and subtleties of character building. It feels to me more that EP just went in already viewing the film from an outside/logical perspective and wanted direct examples of what's referenced, rather than just going with the flow or looking for more indirect clues. It's really easy to not give brief or background interactions weight when the movie is already this visually busy, especially when the movie then intends those small events to be the crux of entire songs (like Luisa's.) Took me two viewings to to understand why Isabela was so bitchy to Mirabel -- she is expected to be EXTRA perfect when Mirabel is "excused" from familial expectations -- and I only really saw the whole picture after watching her reactions and expressions. It's a fair preference and criticism imo, just not one I personally needed to enjoy the film.
The Family Madrigal establishes pretty quickly that Alma sees every day as the family working to earn the Miracle (to your point). To some degree, a part of her never really left the river where she lost Pedro, which is why I think the scene with her and Mirabel there at the end works. She spends every day afraid that the Miracle will disappear and that she’ll lose everything she’s gained because of it, so like you said, her arc is letting go of that fear and learning to let the next generation do things their way.
I didn't read but I find the "soft disagree" then proceeding to 4 paragraphs of why you disagree funny to ma
"If someone tried standing up to her & shrugged it off" *stares at the bit DIRECTLY AFTER THE DINNER where Mirabel's parents are going "WHY ARE YOU LIKE THIS" at Abuela*
Also, like another comment mentioned, Bruno DIDN'T tell Abuela the vision because he knew how she'd react. Seeing that vision is what made him go into self-imposed exile out of fear of the reactions.
Commenting as I watch:
I disagree with the criticism of Luisa. I think it's a somewhat shallow interpretation. I agree that the characters needed more time to be really fleshed out, but I don't think Luisa and Isabella are the same character. They have two different kinds of trauma. Luisa purpose it to be useful, she's capable and confident, or at least that's how she's portrayed. And she's stressed because she doesn't feel as if she's allowed to get a break. Isabella is the face of the family, she's seen as the next generation of Madrigals. So she tries to stay in her lane and fit the image that she's been told to fit.
I also disagree with the point that no one stands up to her. We see Mirabel's mother talk to her about it before and after the breaking of the miracle, and we also see how easily she brushes things off that she disagrees with. I don't think Abuela is openly abusive, I think she's ignorantly abusive. She doesn't realize that the things she does hurt those around her, like a lot of families. Most cases of abuse are from people who think that they're doing what's best for those around them.
It's far from a perfect movie, but I feel the criticisms you brought up regarding those two points are quite weak.
One of them is dependable, the other is perfect. They both have expectations placed on them, but in very different ways and with different stresses.
One supports, the other performs.
One is being crushed, the other is being stifled.
One is under pressure, the other is trapped.
@@FFKonoko I completely agree. I do think their characters could have benefited from more time fleshing those differences out. But I think a large part of understanding them is based on how much you can relate to them, or maybe know other people who can.
"trauma"
It's pathetic that you'd call parental expectations _trauma._ Imagine telling that to your ancestors.
@@Shockguey ...???
Ok, we tell them, and then...?
@@naolucillerandom5280 They look upon you in shame.
Let's face it, it's not like you give a shit about your family. You're no different than the Whites in Americam
I think what this video has showed me most is that some films rely heavily on the audience filling in the gaps and understanding what's going on. It trusts the audience to fill in the gaps and puts the burden on them to make it make sense. And for a film, which already has a short runtime to begin with, they can be forced to rely on this.
In a way I think that's nice, it shows the creators respect their audience enough to be sure they'll understand the situation. And it seems a lot of Encanto's fanbase did. They didn't need to explicitly see Abuela being a bad parent or an overly stern matriarch, we just got it and moved on.
But on a textual level it's faulty because it can leave important gaps in the story, and some audience members aren't willing to co-operate or don't want to have to do most of the work.
I still think Encanto is a wonderful film, but I can totall see where Explination Point is coming from. I think this film at least needed to be longer to better flesh out most of these elements.
To elaborate on your point about it being faulty on a textual level, for a story about generational trauma like this it is also possible that some audience members are simply unable to fill in the gaps, as they lack the personal experience with the subject to easily do so and possibly don't even realize there's an expectation to fill in the gaps as a result.
@@tamhiding036 Exactly. If you can relate to the characters already then you don't need to movie to spell it out so explicitly, you already get it and can see the subtle hints that gesture towards that.
But if you don't relate to it, then you won't be as able to fill in those gaps and the story will feel very tell don't show.
Its all informational shorthand. Comparing someone to a snake? They are deceitful, untrustworthy, selfish, evil. They aren't just bad, they have a specific flavor of bad to them.
On a later reviewing though, it might not hold up. That snake comparison starts from somewhere and permeates through specific cultures. With regards to the Bible, it means bad, evil. With regards to the Gadsden flag, it means fiercely independent.
How much extra information / runtime would Encanto have to add to get the textual support it needs? And if it did, wouldn't it be less enticing? The audience can't fill in information, they'd have to compare
I think I agree, I think its mainly his content preferences as he said. He tends to review and enjoy series more than movies. In a 12 episode series, having to fill in gaps yourself is annoying because there's so much runtime you should be able to show everything, but in a 90 minute movie it's needed to fill in gaps in your head with implications, at least in this case.
You can tell he had a healthy family dynamic growing up
I'm going to frame this.
Don't be silly! Luisa can't have Isabella's role in the story because only conventionally attractive (by Hollywood standards) women are allowed to have romantic relationships!
I think the problem with this movie is that it shouldn’t require you to have a specific background to be able to watch it. Amazing film, but a majority of the audience won’t get it unless outside research is done, which SHOULDN’T BE REQUIRED FOR A STANDALONE MOVIE
Don't exactly agree that they should've been willing to voice their grievances to Abuela given the context, but HARD agree that there's like no reason to suspect that their grievances have any merit when we basically never see them going through much on screen.
The thing is, we do see them going through things. We just don't see it from the right perspective, where you realise how toxic their situation is.
Abuela says everyone must use their gifts to serve the community. While that is noble, you forget that one needs to take care of themself too.
Luisa is *always* busy doing a heavy task (just look at the two scenes she's in before her song, and notice how she uninteruptedly responds to the villagers' requests), but it basically means she never gets a break. Also, when she feels like she was weak for even a moment, she was scared out of her mind by the thought of not being able to be of service like she used to (which is even worse when you think about how Abuela almost indoctrinates the family).
Isabela's case is very subtle, but you never see her express her own will before her song. She feels like she has to fulfill the role that Abuela puts on her: To be the perfect exterior and face of the family.
Granted, seing most of this takes at least a second viewing before you see all of these things in the right light.
My man really missed the line "under the surface".
The intro song tells us how the family os perceived as perfect, happy and stable, even by Mirabel. Then we have a first cotrast to that in the scene where they prepare the party behind closed doors and suddenly there is a tiny bit of bickering and tension.
A huge element of the movie is that no one speaks up before Mirabel does. Everyone hides. Luisa does what she's asked for, burying her anxiety in work. Isabella practices secretly to live up to her own hype and gets frustrated when watching Mirabel undermine that effort and getting just as much love from Mama seemingly without ever excelling as much. Luisa and Isabella needed to be separate because one is about never being able to do enough, the other is about being on the pedestal of the golden child and anxiously clinging to it.
The Madrigals aren't all happy, oh my Goodness, you entirely missed how anxious Peppa is about her weather constantly. Or how Antonio was incredibly scared of not being accepted without a gift. Julietta being so torn between her mother and daughter.
No one *talked* about it until Mirabel did. That was the whole point of it. Their unhappiness was constantly pushed down under the surface in an attempt to present the image expected of them.
Which is the trauma Abuela passed down. She always had to be strong and hide her pain and fear to provide for everyone else, and she passed that on to her children. By the end of the story, she wins her family back when she finally makes herself vulnerable to Mirabel.
I agree that Turning Red is a fantastic spin on the same themes, but Coco really isn't...
That's kind of the real problem with the film in my opinion. It's very short and breezy in its pacing. This huge ensemble cast and the dynamics have to be gleaned from maybe a few lines of dialogue and a line or two in a song. That's all they get. It makes these things hard to digest because your not even tasting before the next thing is shoved at you.
Love the content, even if i don't agree with a lot of the points in this video. People always say not to yuck someone's yum, but I think it's also important not to overly yum someone's yuck. Not every piece of media needs to be for every person, and we should be allowed to express that both ways
Encanto appeals to Americanized Latinos and White women who find it exotic.
It has no staying power.
@@Shockguey Quick, genuine question: What does "Americanized latinos" mean to you in the case in which you're using it?
Personally, I would hesitate to be reductive by saying that a movie is bad just because it may resonate with particular groups that seem to not include you.
@@grayalmeida9622 Latinos who are ingrained in American culture to the point they don't realize they're just praising recycled stories from the 1960's.
There's nothing wrong with being reductive when it's true.
@@Shockguey Well, at least you're honest about that shitty opinion. I'm gonna report this and move on, but I urge you to not label things you don't enjoy as simply for other groups whom you appear to view yourself better than. We all know what that spells
@@grayalmeida9622 These groups claim identity to a culture that they've clearly shed. They are hypocrites.
So yes I'm better than them, I recognize a soulless corporate product for what it is.
on another topic, with all of the family members, and their gifts, the youngest, to have their gift, minus Antonio, has had it for 10 years, Luisa has had hers for 14, and Isabella and Dolores for 16 years. Any sort of learned behavior regarding the gifts is definitely solidified by the time of the movie. Isabella has to be perfect, Luisa has to be always doing work around town, etc. In terms of Luisa, always doing work, it's not that she has to protect the town from invaders or anything, but she feels she has to. She grew up hearing the story of how her grandfather, "was lost," (which she would obviously realize later meant killed), by invaders. This, along with what her gift is, along with the pressure from her grandmother to, "make good use," of their gifts, it would definitely make her feel pressured to be the protector. There's also the fact that, whether the villagers can do their own work or not, a lot of things just couldn't happen without Luisa, or would take a lot of time, such as moving a church or bridge or rerouting the river. Without her, the town would definitely have to change to keep operating in the same way. Also, remember, this pressure would've been initially put on a five-year-old! Everybody who had been given gifts, started the pressure when they were five! And the pressure continued until the end of the movie, and by that point, the adults, the triplets, would've had their gifts for 45 years, and, as I said, before, Between 10 and 16 years.
I don't know about you, but I would definitely crumble under that sort of pressure. I'd be the Bruno of the family, probably, either that, or almost crumbling lake, Luisa.
This is a good comment! It shows how if you relate the characters (as many do), you love this movie. You can fill in all the gaps with your own experiences. But if you don't already know what it's like to be in a dysfunctional family, you'll feel lost.
Personally I liked the movie, but as a colombian I'll fully admit it was mostly because my experience watching it was me or a friend pointing at the screen every 5 minutes to proclaim "Look they're eating this!" "Look they're wearing that!" "Look they're in that place!" "Oh this is sooo like here!" "Oh this is based on that!" "This is a reference look!" "They said this! They did that! Sooo colombian man soooo relatable so well researched" (And I stand by if, I think regarding the culture the movie was genuinely very well researched)
But yeah you're right about pretty much everything about this movie. Specially about Isabela and Luisa not working quite as they're intended to. Idk if the internet demonizing the character of abuela can be used as criticism against the movie itself tho? I never saw her portrayed as evil in the movie, but you're right they didn't show enough of her having too high expectations. You're right alright
Except the dinner scene.
Idk if it's a colombian thing but I've been on that exact dinner where a harmful rumor mill begins to form and everyone whispers it against their better judgement until someone tells the person that will blow up hearing it and the meal is ruined. I cannot see it as unbelievable man. I just can't.
SomethingI think you didn't notice, when you mentioned that Abuela doesn't critique, Isabella, or correct, her looks, or anything like that, is, during the breakfast scene, when Isabella reacts to Dolores' announcement that Mariano wants 5 babies, all, but one flower that Isabella creates on her head is pink, and Abuela removes that one flower, because she wants Isabella to look "perfect."
Im maybe halfway through this vid, but I feel like the Bruno bit was really misinterpreted.
The older family members know Bruno is not evil, but his powers show the cracks in the family. Abuela is obsessed with the family looking strong and capable so the village doesn't have to worry. Bruno shows them all the ugly truth, though. He can't use his powers to coddle the villagers and he can't even really use them to make the family look better. That's why he was estranged.
Abuela is the matriarch of the house (which is common in Colombian families), so she decided to shun him and scold anyone who spoke about him. Her children know Bruno is not evil, but they aren't allowed to talk about him. This was instilled in them at a young age. The youngest family members barely know him, so they only know to fear his name. Dolores is still very young and had to grow up knowing she couldn't talk about Bruno living in the walls. If she mentioned it, he'd suffer great consequences. So she has to keep it secret, which is easier to do because the family Does Not Talk About Bruno. They don't even want to mention his name.
Mirabel says that she shouldn't have brought up Bruno because of the emotional responses from her family members. Pepa complains about her wedding day, Dolores tells her that she's worried Bruno will be caught living in the walls, Camillo describes him as a rat monster, and Isabela (of course) has some "perfect" prophecy and still finds a reason to complain (which is clarified later in the movie). Mirabel isn't getting a straight answer and no one in the family can tell her why Bruno is so bad because even they don't know. They only know their own experiences with him. She's exasperated and complains that she shouldn't have even brought him up since it just throws everyone in a tizzy.
The biggest theme of this movie is generational trauma, abuse, and fear, and it is entrenched in Columbian culture and family dynamics. A lot of the behaviors exhibited in the movie become more clear when viewed through that lens and that culture cannot simply be separated. Some of the things that you claimed "didn't make any sense" are more metaphorical. Mirabel doesn't get a new room because she is being left behind by the family. She was powerless but was loved for her potential. But now she has none, so they dropped her immediately. Isabela and Luisa have very similar struggles. Even Abuela has those same struggles. It represents how women are expected to behave and live within the Madrigal household: Push down your feelings and concerns and look good for the family. Even Pepa has to deal with this. Its a pretty common way of thinking in more community-focused cultures and it can lead to serious problems.
I dunno. Your other videos seemed to have a lot more care and interest for nuance. While you raise some semi-decent points here, I don't feel like the same care was given to this movie.
I always thought Luisa was done dirty. I did see her song as her existential crisis because her powers are failing and she has nothing but her strength as a character.
I think an important thing to notice is that as the movie is am allegory for intergenerational trauma, the "powers" of the characters correspond to roles in the dysfunctional family: the "golden child", the "strong one", the emotional bulwark, the one who nurtures and picks up the pieces, the one who has to know everyone's business, the one who tells uncomfortable truths and gets scapegoated, and so on.
Not gonna lie. That video sounded like "I am American" and I don't necessarily mean anything bad for it. I can't expect you to understand things as if you lived your whole life in someone else's shoes...
I wanted to explain how it is super believable for me as a brasilian and for my whole family that:
1. Abuela is not evil, but is still the root of all these problems
2. How the gossip kept her mouth shut for years
3. How Luisa and Isabelle's role in the family are diferente
4. Why having such a huge family was essential
5. How come everyone is happily smiling in constant parties, but still falling apart.
But to be honest, I would need to either make a 1h long video response or invite you to live with me for a year.
Yeah even as an American with a Mexican family I was thinking the same. Most of the stuff is just not understanding the cultural differences
@@Doople as a Mexican with American family and friends, absolutely, they just don’t have any context on why the issues are what they are
Am half Salvadoran and this was my thought exactly. Like, "why doesn't anyone just speak up to abuela??" ...you wanna die, mfer? either of la chancla or the sheer crushing guilt of knowing your disappointed your abuela who has done everything for you. White americans just don't get it man.
“It looks like abuela fretting about Isabella’s looks constantly because she never Can be perfect enough”.
Did you notice when, during breakfast, Isabella sprouts flowers in her hair from the shock when Dolores teases her about how many children Mariano has, and Abuela very non-chalantly picks out the one flower of a different color and throws it away?
Subtlety dude. Subtext.
Also, as a Mexican… parties like that are honestly not something rare, and it almost never says *anything* about the dynamics of the family or families involved.
Now that I've finished the video, this analysis falls short in many different and disappointing ways with only a handful of valid criticisms. The music in this film does fall victim to typical musical theatre pitfall of "Tell don't show," as well as mentioning strange and unnecessary things that wont matter by the end of the performance.
To play advocate for Luisa allegedly never being criticized or controlled by abuela; note how whipped she is in the scenes involving her holding a piano. She doesn't need to HOLD IT UP but when abuela (literally) snaps her fingers or claps her hands, Luisa knows that is her cue to show off for guests. She also helps the entire village without any push back at all. I think it should be clear that abuela has put it into her head that she NEEDS to unflinchingly use her gifts to everyone else's benefits and not talk back or shirk her "duty."
I very much agree with your hypothetical of Luisa being the one to stand up to abuela and keep the family from tearing apart, rather than Mirabel. Or that Luisa and Isabella should be combined.
I think that you are failing to see how thoroughly controlled the family is by abuela and that's why I vehemently disagree with the last point you make about her not being a manipulator or "bad guy." I agree that she has fair points when she says things are Mirabel's fault, because it seems to be so from her point of view. I agree that we should have seen someone blatantly stand up to her prior to that scene to witness first hand how she reacts to disobedience.
It frightens me that you don't understand this next part: You have to understand people can and do hold extravagant parties just to keep appearances in front of others. It may be "hard to believe" but MANY families with abusers can be genuinely happy at certain times, have smiles, and parties but still know that it will quickly go wrong when the abuser is upset by anything. There are so many instances of showing that the Madrigals fear abuela, or at least don't want to upset her in any way, talk back or question her. So unless you're just assuming that every single one of them is spineless and clueless allowing themselves to be walked all over, then you are willfully ignorant to the fact that this sort of kowtowing doesn't happen unless one is AFRAID of the person they are submitting to. Think of it this way.... we never once saw what her power is...
Your last point is especially good and I don't see many other people mentioning it. It's really bizarre to see someone who is old enough to understand how abuse works to think that a person/character can't be happy if they experience abuse in some form. The most abused people I know whose stories would turn your stomach still speak of their abusers in pleasant terms sometimes, because it wasn't always bad. Real people have ups and downs. Real people can still experience moments of happiness or levity even in their darkest times, especially if they're actively working to repress the trauma they're enduring.
@@psychotophatcat some people are so privileged to have never experienced abuse, and alot of those same people have very narrow, cookie-cutter ideas about how abuse looks. That's probably these guys' situation.
"we should have seen someone blatantly stand up to [Alma] prior to that scene to witness first hand how she reacts to disobedience."
Actually, we do. The scene where she confronts Julieta and Agustín about the vision, both pretty blatantly confront her with the fact that she isn't considering Mirabel as a part of the family. Alma first deflects to Pepa when Agustín fires back at her, then deflects to the house when Julieta pushes the topic further. It may not be the most memorable scene, sure, but it _does_ exist.
@@firekirby123 That's a very good point, I am glad that you reminded me.
That 109 minute runtime is important, I feel, and I think it's where a majority of your problems (and my own) come from: It chugs along at a breakneck pace and needs the audience to insert their own experience onto the story. I feel as though what Encanto needed was a song about Abuela, ideally right where she screams at Mirabel about breaking the family apart that could just as easily feature Mirabel striking back by pointing out the people in the family were suffering, and not just her... someone to actually stand up to the family matriarch.
But I'm also someone who thought that Frozen would have been a better story if Hans wasn't a basic bitch betrayal villain and instead just failed to revive Anna with his kiss because despite what he thought he wasn't actually in love with her (and his attempted regicide on Elsa is a confused heroic attempt to save the dying sister), so what do I know?
Edit: Accidentally misremembered the name the one guy Anna fell in love with after one song with the other guy she fell in love with after one song. (It's a miracle she didn't fall in love with the damn snowman...)
You know at least a little bit, considering I agree with you about Frozen.
in my opinion, she did get her own song, though, or at least she had one with her husband, "Dos Oruguitas"," is there a song. It's a metaphor about change, and how it will eventually come, do you have to deal with it when it comes, I'm on metal things, but that's what I immediately is coming to mind. If you turn on the English subtitles are closed, captions during the movie, and go to that scene, it'll show the direct translation.
I know this is a bit of a nitpick, but you probably mean Hans, not Kristoff.
@@TheLadysAtelier Fair enough; edited.
@@ZeldaWolf2000 That's not unfair, and it does do more than its fair share of lifting when it comes to establishing the history of the town and family.
But like the video points out, it frames her entirely in a sympathetic light and doesn't really leave a place for her to be the accidental villain the movie wants her to be... everyone might be at their breaking point with the pressure she's putting everyone in the family, not just Luisa (a revised version of Surface Pressure, *the actual best song in the movie*, would fit rather well, actually).
I neither love nor hate Encanto & I'm happy that you are willing to say that you don't like it! Too often I see people with "controversial" opinions about media (comics, movies, TV shows, video games, etc.) feel like they can't talk about the problems they have with it because "everyone" either loves/hates it & if you don't agree with "everyone" than you are wrong.
I know I grew up in an bad household, but y'all make it seem like talking back to an adult when you live with them, or respect them, is easy and not at all a scary and stressful thing to even contemplate.
Abuela was strong and firm, yes, but it never felt like anyone could, well, talk to her without feeling like they were being talked down to. Abuela had closed herself off to maintain the image of a leader, the unmoving bedrock of not just the family, but the entire community. It's no surprise to me no one in the family would openly speak to her about their feelings and problems.
I think you are missing the biggest differences Luisa and Isabella. Luisa is physically strong, but is not emotionally strong. Nearly everytime she's on screen she's lifting some heavy thing that would take multiple people to comfortably move. Why wouldn't EVERYONE in the community ask her to carry the heavy burdens, it's time saving. While she is physically capable, she's always worried about messing up. Oftentimes when someone is always successful, and has not failed, they can have an irrational fear of failure. Hell when her powers do start failing she eventually breaks down crying. Without her strength, who even is Luisa? This is the key difference between Luisa and Isabella.
Isabella's gift is growing plants, not being perfect. She practiced her "perfection", whereas Luisa's Gift was strength. Luisa's identity is tied to being "the strong one", tied to her Gift, but Isabella's identity is being "the perfect one", which is tied to her actions and mannerisms, only supported by her Gift. Without her Gift, Isabella can practice hard enough to still be "the perfect one".
Even their songs highlight this difference, Luisa's is about constantly feeling the pressure to succeed, of being the big, strong older sister and she wants a goddamn break, to lean on someone's shoulder for a change, because she's clearly a nervous wreck like Pepa, but she's better at bottling it up. Isabella on the other hand has a song that is triggered not by her problems, but on the discovery of something she didn't know ABOUT HERSELF. She for one was okay with going through life being Abuela's perfect granddaughter to the point she practices poses for when she uses her powers. If anything she only thought, not explicitly stated mind you, that following Abuela's plan was fine, if boring. Accidentally sprouting a cactus, something she didn't know she could do, and Abuela definitely didn't know, was all the catalyst she needed to try seeking new things about herself, no perfect blossoms, no perfect smile. Clearly flowers were a major thing with Isabella, most likely because Abuela liked them. Now though, what else can she do that isn't "perfect" but is still hers? She's having fun!
Another thing I forgot to mention in my other comments regarding Dolores, is that she does know when to say something, and not to say stuff. During the dinner scene, she knew her Isabella, doesn't want to marry Mariano, she knew she did, and her way of messing with that engagement, unfortunately involves revealing her cousin's secret.
Also, in regards of her, knowing whether Bruno was in the walls, she says, during we don't talk about Bruno, "I can always hear him sort of muttering and mumbling." Keyboard, here, being, "can." Present tense. She also says, later in the song, "I can hear him now." Also, present tense. This is including, obviously, what you mentioned about, "the rats talking in the walls."We're not sure why she kept a Bruno secret, but it's also worth, noting that she was like 11 when he went into the walls, and although he's not her parent, he's still an elder in the family, and she was a kid, so either Bruno asked her to keep her secret, or she felt she had to, or just couldn't tell people. It's also totally possible. She tried to tell people, and they didn't believe her.
This is even more explicit in, "All Of You."
"Yo I knew he never left, I heard him every day."
So yeah, Dolores definitely knew. It isn't ambiguous in the slightest, so I really don't know how he got confused on this point.
@@firekirby123 neither do I. I think it's also important to realize that, though something may not be logical, to you, it doesn't have to be. It Hass to follow character's inner logic. This doesn't just applied to Dolores obviously, but all of the characters. Look through their eyes as best you can.
I think you're missing an important distinction between Luisa and Isabella's characters (and why they *are* two separate characters):
Luisa needs to be strong for the sake of the family. She is, literally and figuratively, holding the family together with her strength. When the cracks start to show, right after Mirabelle looks "Under the Surface", Luisa is suffering. She's hurting. She's *not* strong enough for what's being demanded of her - the pressure of being strong enough to hold their fracturing family together. It's already been proven after Bruno "left" that her grip isn't strong enough to hold onto everyone, and part of her feels like a failure for that. Even if he was the "black sheep" of the family, he was still family. That pressure's been building up more and more, and the general family treatment of Mirabelle probably doesn't help matters because she's *also* being pushed out for not having a gift.
Isabella, however, needs to be perfect /specifically/ for Abuela. It's subtle, and I didn't realize this until it was pointed out, Isabella has a strong resemblance to Abuela when Abuela was younger. And, when we look at Isabella's chosen suitor, he has a rather strong resemblance to their deceased grandfather. Abuela is trying to live vicariously through Isabella. She's not dealing with quite the same pressures the rest of the family is. While everyone has to use their gifts for the betterment of the family, Isabella has to be a perfect woman for Abuela to project the life she never got to have onto her. This is also subtly shown during the breakfast scene where Abuela is walking by everyone, reminding Isabella of her future commitment. For a moment, we see Isabella's cracks show and she creates several flowers. We, as the audience, are lead to believe this is excitement, but we later learn that it was frustration. Additionally, one flower was different from the rest, and this flower, specifically, was the one Abuela plucked. This was Abuela reminding her, directly and subtly, what was her place in Abuela's eyes.
These pressures on the older siblings are fracturing the family, and, as we later learn, the gifts and the miracle are a direct result of them being a family. If the family falls apart, the magic weakens/dies. That's why Mirabelle doesn't have a gift - her family was the weakest.
The Backstreet Boys reunion tour has been ravaging the globe and it must be stopped
In fairness, we do see Julieta stand up for Mirabel and tell Alma to go easy on her only for Alma to brush her off and act like her own concern for the family as a whole is more important. BUT that’s a background shot (easily missable; my wife didn’t catch it until I pointed it out), and it’s really the only overt instance of this that I can think of off the top of my head.
I like your take on the content itself, but I also feel like one of the reasons this movie is so beloved is how well it was constructed stylistically. The telling vs showing issue is certainly there but there is a major difference between a five minute exposition dump about family history and the absolute majesty that is “We Don’t Talk About Bruno”. While being somewhat disconnected from the events of the plot, each characters arc is pretty well brought across by their personalities and the animation and VA that forms those personalities. Isabelle is the prime example. While there is basically no major plot beats establishing where her arc starts and the why she changes in the way she does, everyone watching can see the change happen by how her personality and character design shift. It would be a far better movie if the stylistic elements supported much actual substance, but I think it’s still a major point in favor of the movie and a big reason why it was received so well.
Yeah, it's Brave all over again. I figured the moral was when you're a kid you see you family as either superheroes or magical, but as you grow up that dissipates and you see them as the flawed, struggling people they really were. Til that revelation, you feel unremarkable and the misfit of the family. That's why the ending where they get their magic again kinda disappointed me.
I think overall, most of the cast was really charming and well acted. Even if the whole was kind of a mess, the individual parts were entertaining. Encanto could have made a good miniseries.
I didn't agree with the main message of the movie. All of the family's magical talents are metaphors for having successful careers or caregiving roles. Mirabel feels bad because she doesn't do anything that's seen as valuable. For me, this could go one of two ways: either she finds a job/hobby she likes and realizes that you don't have to be born with talent, you can become good at something with a lot of practice, and finds her purpose that way; or she realizes that having an impressive career isn't what's most important to her, and fixes other aspects of her life until she's satisfied with it overall.
Instead, Encanto basically says "if you feel insecure because all of your family members are more successful than you, don't worry! They're actually ALL secretly crumbling under the pressure of their high-paying jobs and being admired by everyone! You're actually needed to tell them how much they're suffering so they can get better mentally by not doing so much work!" I never liked the 'everyone better off than you is actually secretly suffering' trope, it always feels like sour grapes to me. One or two people, sure, but everyone??
1:32
What happens if you’re a minority and republican?
They close there ears and deny they exist.
You know, I’m even of the stance that the abuse that is going on in this household is something that is explained through the way that the characters tend to do common things I directly relate with abuse (like trying to maintain peace without raising an issue or hiding from family members) but even then I have to admit none of this is substantiated by the actual things going on on screen. You make a really good point about the movie showing us absolutely nothing of substance when it comes to the conflict, it feels like those moments of things like Antonio hiding under the bed was part of an earlier draft or a side comment from someone who wanted a little more clearly defined of conflict in the movie but was cut, and it really leaves the movie with the kind of feeling of when you go over to someone’s house and you only see the effects of abuse with a much more functional cover up. Which, I think would be giving them too much credit to say was intended, because, again, the plot is all over the place, the conflict is all over the place, and none of the character’s feelings are backed by actual on screen issues.
4:41, Mirabelle absolutely tells us what her relationship is with her family is. The entire back third of the song is her putting herself aside to refocus the attention on other people, because she doesn't want people to associate her lack of powers with the family she idolizes, because it's how she was raised to act by her grandmother. This is what leads into the tension of her "I want" song, dealing with the neglect that comes from being excluded.
The next two songs, meanwhile, use that perspective to highlight the neglect born of expectations in Surface pressure, which then shows how these two things can ruin a life and reputation in We Don't Talk about Bruno. That, in turn, brings us to What Else Can I Do, which is about breaking away from expectations, and actually communicating, and thus being able to do more from a previously restricted situation, making it a hell of a lot easier to at least try to mend a relationship.
Which finally leads us to Two Oruguitas, which punctuates a scene telling us why the grandmother, whose enforcement cause much of the strain, acts the way she does in a means of self-reflection, while literally telling the characters to step away from each other a bit, grow up, and reunite for the better. That, in turn, highlights the character growth allowing for the reprise of Family Madrigal, where the home is LITERALLY rebuilt to better service a family together.
6:50, You really didn't notice the themes of excess authority and lack of communication, huh? Not an easy bit for a family movie, but it's pretty damn real. Especially outside South/Central America, where arguing with family, especially older members, is pretty much sacrilege. Social connotation is important.
Bruno isolated himself, Abuella refuses to talk about him out of shame (basically all she does to her family), and everyone else (the ones who were young when he left, and his emotionally unstable sister whose wedding was crashed by a storm) just associate the bad memories with the visions they received from him. He's been gone for a decade, and the main characters in We Don't Talk About Bruno are barely older than that.
As for Dolores, you start a family argument about the guy in hiding when every word is a migraine in process. Though I do agree it doesn't jive with her gossip personality.
I'd say Abuella definitely needed more time for her character, but given how most of her lines are either shutting down Mirabelle or controlling every aspect of Luisa and Isabella's lives, plus the fact that two of her three children are clearly traumatized by what Abuella thinks should be considered gifts, while the third never really speaks to anybody, I'mma say inference can carry a lot where direct visuals don't. Again, communication issues = primary theme.
I do agree Coco is absolutely the better put-together movie.
Bruno, Dolores, and Pepa are utterly miserable, with the latter two putting on a happy face. Stated pretty explicitly in the movie, especially given all of their powers are both stressors, and prevent them from confronting others, thus furthering the whole "don't communicate" thing. That just leave mom who doesn't talk, cousin shapeshifter, who is criminally underused, and cousin Jungle Book, who feels really out of place barring his ceremony at the beginning.
Good wrap up from Abuella's POV though. It can be legitimately hard to argue otherwise if you don't see her fault in the plot. If she had a bit more screentime controlling, like you said, it could definitely be stronger. Still, inference is important, and most people, myself included, could infer Abuella's behavior towards her children and grandchildren well before Bruno or the confrontation.
That said, Coco and Turning Red are both excellent alternatives to Encanto. Or ya know, you can watch all three like I did. Lots of stress after each tho.
EDIT: A structural thing I noticed. Encanto can be fully understood if you just watch the musical segments, but without them, the story if very scattershot and lacking details. The story is the music, rather than the music supporting the story.
what bugged me the most was that scene where mirabell is trying to... apologize??? to izabella and after their yelling fit are suddenly best friends. as someone with sisters, A YELLING MATCH IS NOT IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY A "YAY OUr PrOBLEMS ArE SOLVED WE'rE BESTIES NOW"
just... there was no waiting period. it was literally: im mad at you. well im also mad at you. oh yeah well i'm even more mad. im so mad i made a cactus, wait what. you made a cactus. i made a cactus. you're not perfect so we can be friends now
You know that moment where the faimly is taking a picture and either Mirabel is accidently left out or she feels she should stay out of the photo and starts to cry? That single moment where everyone loves me but I'm still excluded. HIT so close to home. I like it for that moment it's not just relatable that is how I felt.
So, basically this movie falls apart unless you project either a Colombian “you don’t disagree with the matriarch, no matter how unhappy you are” context or a “these few lines from Isabella/Luisa show how abusive Abuela is” sort of analysis.
Feels wrong to say that you have to "project" a Colombian mindset into a movie about Colombian people, but yes, the movie suffers for not providing that context to the viewer.
Wasn't the largest problem with the issues the members of the family had that they had essentially normalised their suffering? They either didn't think of an alternative way to live, like Isabela or Pepa, or did their best to ignore their issues altogether like Luisa. No one talked about it because why would they? Even ignoring the cultural values of respecting elders, bringing up a problem you have with the system the family has in place can very easily be reflected back on you. Everyone else is getting along fine, *you* must be the problem. The last person who failed to live up to their role, Bruno, isn't even talked about now by the rest of the family. Hell, the whole song "We Don't Talk About Bruno" is essentially about how it's better to ignore the uncomfortable truths rather than confront them and see how to work past them. Once someone hears a prediction of the future (or what they think is a prediction), they expect the worst, don't do anything to to work around it, and blame Bruno, who is only guilty if saying that the problem exists. They do this not because they're stupid, but because it's easier to shoot the messenger than acknowledge something's your fault: getting a gut? Maybe you could have eaten better. Your fish died? Did you feed it? Did you check on its health? Your hair's going to fall out?... Okay, not so much you can do about that, but it's easier to blame Bruno than it is to accept that you just got one of the genetic short straws. And when Mirabel says "I never shouldn't brought up Bruno", that's mirroring how when someone mentions something that's wrong, the family doesn't try to fix the problem, they just tell whoever brought it up to stop talking about it. It's paint over the cracks in the walls.
Edit: Also, the miracle didn't fail when Mirabel didn't get a power. All of the powers exist to protect the family from a situation like the one that traumatised Abuela (healing, listen for danger, strength, controlling plants, communicating with animals, etc.). They act as another representation of the generational trauma itself. Mirabel not having a gift is supposed to show that she is the member of the family who can break away from the trauma and do something. The Casita chose not to give her a gift, because if she had one, she'd just become another part of the system Abuela put in place. If Abuela views her family via their gifts first and foremost, then having a granddaughter with no gift would highlight that. It would force them to confront the problem rather than avoid it like they always do. Antonio getting a gift, and there being no mention of the miracle failing for the years up until then should have been a strong indicator that the miracle hadn't started failing.
Looking at all the comments, this movie's main problems come from the gap between the culture it's portraying, and the culture it was produced for. The driving forces of the movie are almost entirely things that fall into that gap. Which really leads to one question on my end; why does the movie do almost nothing to portray these important ideas, to an audience for whom they're foreign?
If Encanto was originally written in Spanish, for a Latin American audience, and then translated to English, this would be understandable. The primary audience would understand the culture. But Encanto was first and foremost made in English, for an English American audience. An audience for whom family is much less important, and for whom speaking out against your grandparents isn't an unthinkable act of defiance. Why does the movie not lay this out in clear terms?
Mulan's opening is almost dedicated to presenting how the Chinese revere their ancestors and the importance of maintaining you family's honor. Ideas that have little impact on the story after Mulan joins the army. There's a song that, in no uncertain terms, tells the viewer that Mulan's the opposite of the culture's "ideal woman", which isn't exactly a driving force in the story either.
In Encanto, there's barely a few lines scattered around the entire movie to imply "by the way, people don't speak out against Abuela, not because of any deliberate fear tactics, intimidation, or abuse, but because they respect her and her title as the head of the house, alongside the massive social pressure to not speak out which results from this." You could have an entire song dedicated solely to the how much a character wants to speak out, and can't. That would be a BEAUTIFUL subject for a song that would resonate with rebellious teens, fast food workers, and adults who have to bend to the expectations of corporate hierarchy and out of touch bosses. But does that song exist? We have a song about how one character feels like they have to be perfect, but is it also about how absolute the authority is that demands their perfection?
Abuela isn’t an abuser, she just has toxic habits built on trauma unfortunately that’s to nuanced for internet discourse so people simplify her into being the baddie
10:00 she says in the climax that yes, she knew Bruno was there.
I liked Luisa's song because recently three members of my close family died within six months. My little sister is twelve, and her grandma, her uncle and one of her aunts died. I felt as if no matter how sad I was, I had to look after her. My mum was broken after her mother died, and my dad wasn't the same after his siblings died. I watched helplessly as my whole family slowly shattered within six months. We were together, but all sad. As the older sister, I was the one who didn't cry, who didn't break.
Long story short, I know what pressure is. So the song hits hard.
There are a lot of points here picking apart what he said in this video, but they all have a problem he already addressed: none of that is actually ever displayed in the movie, only "implied."
Louisa is being used as a pack mule to a degree that she has no time for herself, I think that's it. That's her burden. She feels like she's seen more as a source of labor and not a person. I agree they could have done a lot better, especially with how they did Bruno dirty, but I still liked it.
oh I thought the title was joking, you actually dislike it? this'll be interesting
edit: OK I see your point in some places, I disagree w/the Abuela take very strongly... but with all of that your videos are still always entertaining and your use of Agustín in the visual gags cracked me up for some reason
What about my channel makes you think I'm the kind of person who jokes?
@@ExplanationPointAnime I don't even know haha I guess it was the .mp4? maybe seeing similar sort of things from some other channels
@@wuba5456 that was a legit mistake on his part and I will accept no other explanation... point.
@@Hyuinn admittedly sarcasm and joking tones are hard to understand over text.
Mr. Point, the candle is a metaphor for burn out. That's why it starts dying and accelerates because when you feel burnout coming people will panic and try to fix it quickly instead of the hard job of letting yourself rest. Mirabel not getting a gift started to snowball negative emotions in the family and during the film they hit critical mass, hence the candle literally burning itself up and going out.
Abuela is not a villain, but I think there's a point to be made that all of the children are over worked and burdened with heavy expectations as it's established Abuela commits them to working for the community as soon as their powers develop at the age of 5. It's literally the day after Antonio's birthday and Abuela is talking about finding a way to put him to work for the town. And the cracks didn't start because of Mirabel, they were happening for years before the start of the movie, as Bruno says. Abuela assumed Bruno left because of Mirabel but he left to protect her from Abuela. We see the way she yells at Peppa, and it is ridiculous to say it's ok to yell at a 15 year old that they are ruining the family. That is a child, a grown ass adult should not be yelling at them for their not malicious actions.
The biggest problem with Encanto is the fact that it's a movie about the bonds of family in which you barely see any member of said family for more than about 2 minutes. And the superpowers are completely pointless beyond the "everyone is special but I'm not" metaphor, it's a gimmick that didn't need to be in the movie.
You know, I’ve been chewing on this thought for a while, and I want to share my thoughts here.
Encanto isnt bad… but its not served well by the movie format. It isnt a story about the characters as individuals, its a story about the family as a whole unit, about the complications that come with being a massive family. Its trying to say something different than just ‘family good.’ Its trying to say that a cohesive, loving family is a special, yet fragile thing, and that cracks can easily form between the members and lead to the whole thing falling apart. its a tough story to fit into a 2 hr runtime. so yes I agree that it would be better served by a 12 episode tv show. A short seires that lets every family member breath, have a moment, then move on, with the whole picture of ‘family’ being visible after brushing past each member.
I spent half the video saying:
*dumb take, stupid*
But the other half saying:
'Huh. I hadn't considered that.'
Isabella and Luisa seem the same to you because you’ve completely misinterpreted Luisa’s character. She is a chronic people pleaser who spends so much time on helping the village that she barely knows who she is and has no time for other things she cares about, like her family, which is why the moment near the end where she’s just hanging out with her sisters is so satisfying. “Doing what’s best for the family” is whatever standard Abuela sets because she is the matriarch, she is the head, and her standard is that the Madrigals use their gifts to help the town 24/7 to keep up their reputation and keep them safe, bc that’s the only way she knows how to honor the miracle. Luisa is there as one example of the family’s overcommitment to productivity hurting them internally. Isa is having completely different issues, the ones you pointed out, which stem from the same source as Luisa’s, but manifest totally differently.
Your major complaints so far as I understand them
Why didn't Dolores hear Bruno: She did, she explicitly states it several times in "We Don't Talk about Bruno," again speaking up about a long standing issue just to be ignored.
No one stood up to Abuela on screen: Mirabel's dad did and recieved explicit support from his wife when Abuela is blaming Mirabel for destroying the family/miracle
Abuela should've nitpicked Isa's appearance: Breakfast scene, when the "he want's to have five babies" line pops out and Isa sprouts blooms one is off color, Abuela immediately plucks it off and throws it away, this is done casually and no one reacts, implying it is a normal occurrence
Abuela's treatment of Mirabel: Bruno never told Abuela about the vision with Mirabel and the magic failing.
I have just been thinking as I read a lot of these comments, if the issue is that American/white people don’t get the context for the movie (and I think that’s the main problem), why not have written the story to actually have the context within it? Most comments here are basically saying more or less the same thing about how American people don’t get the culture, so why not inform us?
Abuela is the Matriarch of a Columbian Wizard family in the 1900's where her children and grandchildren are walking on eggshells on her because if not, they get ostracized.
Abuela wanted nothing more than to make Mirabelle disappear but can't because she is vain as hell, and loves the public images.
Take this and compare it to the family functionality of Cinderella, Belle, Mulan, or even Penelope (a bit of a stretch but...)
1 minute in and the dude is already pulling a Lily Peet in terms of political commentary.
Like, do these people not realize that this is for a video discussing the merit behind a kids movie?
i tried watching this movie 3 times & i still think its terrible it makes me wonder if i live in a alternate reality
Come to think of it the movie does squeeze a lot out of assumptions it leads you to have instead of Actual Text.
This is a bold title to throw out there, but definitely solid points. Leaves me just wanting to rewatch Coco.
I greatly enjoyed the movie, but I also 100% agree that the movie relies on you believing what it's telling you rather than showing any evidence of it and also that the movie had too much content for too little run time that should have been spread out and expanded in a series instead. A good foundation, but it's really just the cliffnotes instead of a fully fleshed out movie.
There's a lot of comments talking about Latin American culture being the reason no one stands up to Abuela, but you guys are all missing the point. He's saying that, beyond the arranged marriage, there's almost nothing she does for anyone TO stand up to her for.
Explanation Point was simply expressing that the bare minimum of at least a throwaway scene or two of someone being angry at her for her actions would've been better than the nothing we got.
It's hard to know where to start, but when you ask why does Mirabel have to stay in the Nursery, it's both complicated and simple at the same time. As you see at the end of the movie, Mirabel's power is the same as Abuela's, in that she keeps the Miracle alive. It's why it goes out when those two fight so directly, or when she doesn't feel like part of the family. Her primary concern has always been the entire family, and encouraging everyone, which you see in the beginning a lot, especially with how much Antonio needs her in the beginning. She is also foreshadowed as the next Abuela in how the kids of the town all care about *her* over the rest of her family. When they were asking about how does she remember everyone in her family, what she (and the audience) hears is they want to know about the family, while what they meant (arguably) is how is *Mirabel* able to remember and care because that's quite amazing to them.
While yes, she "deserves" her own room, and it would mean more if she had been offered the choice of having a "normal" room "made" for her, and not one the Casita grants, there's some level of symbolism to her staying in the "nursery" to help the other, younger members of the family, to encourage them, and tell them it's okay to be *them, now.* If you look at the doors, literally all of them with Abuela show them as their adult form/size, what they will *become*. Whereas when Mirabel helps Antonio to his own room, *his* shows him *as he is now.* Abuela has the mindset of what will you become and that's what to strive for, whereas Mirabel's mindset is what you are now is what I love, and will continue to love whatever/whoever you become.
Or, you know, I'm just reading too much into it. -shrug-
Also, on Luisa, I highly recommend you look up Why Surface Pressure Works & Why It's Catchy by Howard Ho. It does an amazing job of breaking down the song and surrounding info to help explain just how well it shows the pressure Luisa feels to be useful. Because that's the difference between Luisa and Isabell. Luisa is made to feel useful in what she DOES, and is the only one to actively pursue excellence in her power. (We see this in the song when she's exercising first thing in the morning.) She is the middle child who has to contend with the bossy "Perfect Princess" Isabell while also feeling she has to protect Mirabel because her baby sis has no powers, and the easiest way to do that is to try to do *everything* so that Mirabel doesn't. After all, Mirabel has no power, and could get hurt if she tries to do too much! It's the toxic workaholic mindset of have to do everything because I'm the only one who "can" do everything... even when she can't. Isabell, however, has to present the face of perfection, the picture model of just how "together" the Madrigals are. That's why Abuela is so aghast at seeing her dress splotched with colors, because it looks messy and "immature". Isabell's struggle is how she has to mask her feelings, how she presents herself, etc. which is a different kind of mental pressure than what Luisa faces. Still mental pressures, yes, but different kinds.
In todays news: Channel talking about a lot of non European culture forgets South America isn't europe
I’m Latino, lived in Bogota Colombia the first few years of my childhood, and I love other Disney movies like Coco & Luca… I HATED this movie. Lin Manuel Miranda’s lyrics were awkward & bad (and I say that as a fellow boricua🇵🇷), Bruno is treated HORRIBLY by his family & never gets a real apology for it, and the whole conflict with Abuela seemingly causing the house to break & powers to disappear by putting too much pressure on her family was incredibly half baked in execution and its resolution extremely underwhelming & unsatisfying. I liked Mirabel, the Bruno song, the song Carlos Vives did for the movie, and the animation; everything else ranged from underwhelming to actively annoying. Such a disappointment 🤦🏾♂️
I feel like, there was so much that went over your head and this film clearly was not for you. And that is ok.
What this movie has honestly always felt like to me (as a person who also likes to write and create characters and stories) is that it feels like they said "Wow, let's make some cool characters that have magic powers." Then they thought of things like, "Oh, there has to be a person who has this power, and this one, and it would be REALLY cool if someone also had this power, that would be so interesting!" As in, they thought of the powers first, and how many they could make, and what seemed to be cool. Then they made characters around those powers, and they really liked them.
What felt like happened is that the really loved the IDEA of Encanto, a large family with inherited magical powers, except one, Mirabel, and all their struggles and interesting adventures with this idea. That IS the idea of Encanto. Which, isn't a bad idea. However, I think they fell in love with their characters TOO much. They all deserve to have screen time, and be complex, because that is awesome and amazing and we love that. HOWEVER, there IS NOT enough time to dish that all out in a movie. I agree that this should've been a show, and I actually think it would've been a FANTASTIC show. As a movie, there are too many characters. I can understand from a creative standpoint that it's really awesome to have a bunch of awesome characters, and that you REALLY love them, to a point where you don't want to get rid of them. However, sometimes there are simply too many. Or, maybe they don't deserve to be a main characters, just a small side character. All of the Madrigal family members are kind of advertised as main characters, when they shouldn't be.
It unfortunately feels like the writers and creatives for the movie really had big ideas, pretty good big ideas. However. I do agree, it feels like it underwent a LOT of revisions, and probably due to a lot of forced cutbacks that limited the creativity and script of the movie. Like hypothetically, maybe Disney said it had to be a short movie because it was marketed towards kids and needed to keep their attention span longer, or maybe since it's a family movie they weren't allowed to go as deep as they wanted to into character development, I don't know, but maybe. It just feels like they were forced to change and alter and cut-down their movie so much that it kind of ruins the story.
The story itself is quite complex, and with more time it could of been done BEAUTIFULLY, especially as a short show. There are so many connections you could make between the characters if you had enough time to do it. And, also, the setting is just PERFECT for a show, it was kind of begging to be one. Like, the large house full of rooms that seem like their own world, the jungle, and just the entirety of the village itself, that is such large MAGNIFICIENT setting to drop a show in. There is so much world to explore and go through. It is simply impossible to explore that kind of world in one, 100 minute long movie, especially with it being marked as a kind of staple classic in the Disney timeline. Like The Little Mermaid (cartoon one) is 83 minutes long, and has like, a literal handful of characters? So even though it's shorter than Encanto even, it still justifies the attention it gives to what's important, and maximizes it's time so it only NEEDED to be 83 minutes long. Even at that, we can agree that The Little Mermaid is kind of simple (in a way) right? But it is MUCH better than Encanto because it directed the attention as needed.
While I do admit Encanto wasn't my favourite movie, I watched it and I was confused, and it was kind of "eh", I do think it had potential to be a great story, if it was treated correctly. You brought up how it should've been a show and now gosh, that's all I can think about. IT WAS MEANT TO BE A SHOW. Everything about it should've been a show. It feels like a show idea that they tried to fit into a movie runtime because Disney needed a new hit and didn't have any other ideas. It's kind of a shame actually.
So I do think it was meant to be a show, and I speculate that due to some directing reason, it was cast into a movie instead (probably because that's where Disney's money and revenue really comes from). I think it was trying to say too much and explore too many things in one go, while it really needed to be something like a show that has moments of filler fun and deep troubles mixed throughout that gives a full resolution in the end. Like, maybe halfway through the show the magic starts to die, and in the last episode the house falls apart and has to be rebuilt.
I don't know, that's my own take on it. The movie felt too rushed when I watched it, and at the same time it felt like nothing happened. It deserved to be something greater.
true encanto for me is like they where trying to do something but then say "lets make it for babies cuz real family conflict is traumatic" now we have a movie that is way too afraid of showing actual family arguments and just have characters that somewhat have some related personalities so that the people would forget about the plot
My fanfic brain just kicked in with that idea of a more overtly villainous Abuela and a more explicitly Cassandra'd Bruno.
Call it Encanto AU:
As a child Bruno is scared of his gift and doesn't use it much. At some point he's playing with a friend who asks him to show off his power; he's hesitant but eventually gives in and shows a vision of something bad happening. The child freaks out and thinks Bruno has cursed him to *make* the bad thing happen and runs away. Bruno of course runs home crying and tells Abuela about it. She comforts him like a good grandma and asks him to show her something too, just to get his mind off it and get him used to using his power. That's when he gets the vision of the miracle dying.
Abuela fears their family will be ruined if this gets out, so she uses her special connection to the miracle to place a charm/hex on all the other family members through it: That they will never believe in his predictions. And just to be sure, she also tells them that she was mistaken about Bruno's ability, that he *does* cause the bad things to happen rather than just seeing them coming. After Mirabel doesn't get a gift, she shuts Bruno away and keeps Mirabel in the nursery to make sure the two never meet, because if Mirabel isn't connected to the magic she's not affected by the charm and will be able to see and believe Bruno's visions.
This would also explain an insistence on Isabela getting married as fast as possible: Abuela knows their power is going to be gone soon, so she wants to get at least one more of her grandchildren into a stable family before she loses all leverage.
Might not fully fit, but I'd say it's an interesting thought.
To be fair about the sign… domestic audience is American and from personal experience, more than half of the audience likely would have assumed that the movie takes place in Mexico.
You could take an average American to Spain and half expect the American to assume that the people there were all descended from Mexicans.
I wish this was a joke.
for minute 11:41 as a colombian I can confirm we have no puszles squirrels here
Im reading the comments, seeing that you didnt understand the underlyings reasons why isabella didnt confront abuela. But, thats kinda the point that you were trying to make, that, they dont show it
If they had shown us that isabella tried that and didnt worked. Like, showing us a flash back or something, it would be believebly
But, with it doenst being the case, then its all just assuming.
I enjoy the video, and I can see why you would have a different take on it from people who have dealt with this kind of situation. Speaking as a person with a culture that is similar in how family dynamics develop and are dealt with, this is VERY accurate.
People “read into” the story because it’s intended to emulate a specific family experience.
In a lot of households, you don’t even think to question or stick up for yourself EVER, especially not against an elder or your parents. People can be “happy” or “content” in that family structure but that doesn’t make it healthy. It’s not just “not sticking up for yourself”. Culturally people can receive violence as a result of being “disrespectful” and since that’s different for every person you’re taught to fear those individuals.
You talk about how abuela isn't as evil as the internet says and that's kinda an issue. Here me out.
The general take on Abuela is wrong.
A lot of people come from a very Western disneyfied field of view on films. People expect a villian and she is the closest thing. BUT Abuela is the antagonist. This doesn't make her a villian.
I found her as a character to be interested because of this. She's meant to be relatable, especially to those with intergenerational trauma in the family, not your average Disney viewer.
Your points on the show, not tell are very true, though I think the film was aiming for portrayal of those issues in the same way a musical would; using the songs to show them and move the plot along. Though I definitely agree this does produce issues in the show don't tell department. The film is very entrenched in musical tropes like that.
Honestly, my biggest gripe with the film though is the ending. It ends too fast. They should have taken longer to flesh out the ending, to solve the conflict which is jarring.
I agree with character waste potentials.
After the movie ended. I legit said “we havent explore the other family members, this should be a series “
Strong disagree on how the movie handles Abuela’s antagonistic role, but other commenters have explained that a lot better than I could. You hit the nail on the head with ‘it should have been a miniseries’, though, since that would’ve helped flesh out and give narrative justifications for characters like Louisa’s and Isabel’s feelings. Personally, though it’s not without flaws, Encanto really spoke to me and I felt it had a very nuanced and empathetic portrayal of generational trauma. Interesting video as always m8.
One thing about the “Colombian” squirrels. Those are Coatís (singular coatí) and they’re quite playful. They’re a protected species now, but people used to poach them and had them for pets
Thank you for this video. I no longer feel crazy for not being enraptured by this movie as everyone else was as the only other critics I saw for this move was people saying “they speak Spanish = the end of the world” and I felt like maybe I was missing something? The only thing keeping me sane was the knowledge that my family felt the same way. So thank you for explaining my thoughts in this video in such a clear manner
I watched it expecting to come out loving it as much as everyone else, but the whole thing felt hollow and forced. Seems to be a small group that feels that way though.
Fully agree on the show don't tell. My god did I feel frustrated seeing the line on Wikipedia that the opening song was intended as "proof" that twelve main characters can be efficiently introduced. As if the purpose of stories is to efficiently introduce their characters instead of showing them through the story...
Dude, are you really justifying Abuela's poor treatment of Mirabel in the movie? Imagine defending emotional neglect and abuse.
Ridiculous!
i came here ready to throw down but it looks like the comments have already said it pretty well. Analyzing a musical as if it's a non-muslical movie and also not taking columbian culture into account
It's funny. When my partner and me watched Encanto we both loved it, but when we talked about ut we found the same issues. The vibes and intended message is what we enjoyed, but noted the film itself failed to convey them. We also noted Abuela was pretty reasonable overall, with an aggro focus on Maribel.....as you stated, reasonably so.
Def gonna file this one under "Disney can't write stories anymore"
13:54 if i may nit-pick, abuela does fret about isabela’s appearance because she can’t be perfect enough on screen, it’s just not completely on the nose about it: when she’s talking about her boyfriend coming over, she says “everything will be perfect” as she plucks the one white flower next to a bunch of pink flowers that have sprouted in her hair out.
I think Encanto is mid because of plasticity animation, songs are fine, story is pretty weak. It’s all resolved immediately at the end like a baby movie, it doesn’t have the magic, it’s not the only one, examples: lightyear, Raya and the last dragon, strange world, these are all 5-6 out of ten movies
Okay, I made a separate comment semi-defending Encanto but this is the comment that matters:
Encanto is a mafia movie. Abuela is an old matriarch of a small Colombian town where she is the defacto ruler and seemingly has final say over anything and everything that goes on there. The madrigals have at least one enforcer in Luisa although you could theoretically call Isabella one since it's clear that her plants can do severe damage. Julieta can heal people so if anyone is acting up you can just roll her and Luisa through and break someone's legs and then force feed them tamales until they agree to comply with The Family.
They also have no fewer than three informants in the form of Dolores who can hear everyone in the entire town all the time, Camilo who can look and sound like anyone (so he can spy on the people Abuela thinks are dangerous to the family), and Antonio who can get Toucans and other animals to snitch on the rest of the town. Pepa is shown to help water crops so if suddenly there isn't a big enough harvest for the town then I guess the people the Madrigals don't like are getting fewer rations. Even Bruno could look into the future and see if anyone might try and overthrow The Family.
I would love to get a version of Encanto where the incredibly obvious and sinister uses of these powers are on display.
One point you missed: the reason Mirabel doesn’t have a room is because there is *literally* no place for her in this family. The casa responds to the dynamics of the family more than their orders, which is why it cracks when they argue. In this family, a child is *only* given a room when they get their power. Before that, they are not a Madrigal. Abuela is the exception to this because she does have a place, as the family’s leader, and thus even without a power she has a room.
Hard disagree with this take and I'm just going to break it down on what the movie is going for and why it didn't do as bad of a job you are saying it did.
1. The songs really are great because they actually do convey the necessary information you are suppose to have that you somehow keep missing. The first song sung by Mirabel tells the viewer a few key things, a) family has superpowers, b) here is everyone in the family and the dynamics of said family, c) she clearly loves them enough to have this song ready to go for anyone who asks and, d) she tries to not mention she doesn't have any powers. This is a very important thing to note for it matters for the rest of the movie because this is a family trait and you will see examples of it throughout the entire movie. Her little cousin hiding under her bed because he is afraid of not getting a power is also important because it shows the 2nd coping mechanism to hard problems is hiding. This family either ignores the problem or they hide from it, remember these 2 things.
Songs sung by Luisa and Isabella further hammer this home with Luisa trying to ignore she is losing her powers and has been for awhile, the song tells us why and when it ends she goes back to dealing with the towns burdens her sisters clearly can't do.
Isabella is also just dealing with the fact she has to get married when she doesn't want to while, again, the song explains why.
2. "We don't talk about Bruno" clearly was the only song you got but you missed another vital clue that is the terrifying implications on how Dolores power works with the line of hearing rats in the walls. This is important not because she clearly does know Bruno is there but just how far/detailed she can hear. Towards the end of the movie, she even reveals she can hear the man of her dreams conversations with his mom. This implies she can hear the entire town at all times, and explains why she believes Mirabel on the magic is dying because she just heard Luisa confirming it earlier in the day with her song. We also find out later Bruno definitely talks to the rats and has most likely mentioned why he is hiding to the rats, which would give Dolores a reason not to expose the reason he is hiding and decides to hide that fact that he is hiding. Again this is what this family does best.
3. Grandma is the magic, and she is losing it because the entire family, including her are too busy not addressing major issues. She is not the villain of the story, running anyway from your problems is the villain and Grandma just happens to represent this the most. She ignored several problems dealing with the family/magic and takes her anger out on Mirabel when she can no longer ignore it. Hence the magic house breaking down. So what does Mirabel do? She runs and hides because trying to solve the problem is not working and creating more problems while getting her feelings hurt. Grandma gets confronted about this, admits she is wrong, and finds Mirabel hiding in the one place Grandma has been trying run from her entire adult life, where her husband died. Not sure why you are surprised the internet blew things out of proportion and exaggerates how evil the Grandma is but whatever.
The theme here is address your problems and face your social fears. That is what Mirabel's power is, glorified problem solving. For all this complaining about show vs tells, you really missed the forest for the trees here and the cohesive narrative with different story telling mediums interwoven to tell it.
Encanto is a musical, so it only makes sense that the music is key to understanding the characters and themes. If you don't investigate the story though its songs, you've skipped the story! As much as I enjoy your videos (and will continue to, subscribed!), I think you missed basically every mark this time.
Also, comparing this story to Coco, with Coco as the option that "treat[s] those issues with all the depth and care they deserve"? How!? Coco, the Mexican story with border control in the Land of the Dead, handling a story with care? Maybe I'm misremembering (it's been years), but all I recall was a bad twist villain and the issue of the family hating music being less resolved and more ignored as the living family somehow took cues from events that happened in the Land of the Dead (and that it was all just a misunderstanding in the end). I dunno, I just thought Coco was a fairly empty movie supported by gorgeous visuals and stunning character designs.
But I'm probably just missing or forgetting details, or maybe it just wasn't for me.