Thank you for all the nice comments! One thing I wish I had emphasised more was about Netherlands🇳🇱 and Finland🇫🇮 turned their fortunes around. They both used to suck, made big changes and are now 2 of the strongest countries in the contest. So a big change is possible!
Both of those countries' records also show that a Eurovision renaissance may not be linear upward trend; the Netherlands went up and down before winning in 2019 and Finland did the same prior to 2023. It wouldn't surprise me if the same happened to France, UK, Spain and eventually Ireland. On a side note, I've just heard Dance You Off in a petrol station which was a bit random!
I hope someone in the Irish delegation sees this video. You’re literally way more knowledgeable and have better suggestions than people whose job it is to do Eurovision in Ireland. It’s difficult for any countries to consistently produce great results, especially for smaller countries, but there is no reason for a musically talented country like Ireland to not qualify 8 of the 9 last editions. Just send a song that will chart in Ireland and go from there 💙 I really hope we will get to see an Irish renaissance at Eurovision soon.
yep, our number 1 goal this year should just be to get our own song to top 10 in OUR charts. Because that also encompasses our national radios getting more involved and raising the profile of the contest as people see that artist being successful
Thank you for this video! As a German eurofan I can relate, the problems are similar. Looking at UK, they had similar problems than Ireland. Manifesting Ireland to have at least a Michael Schulte or Sam Ryder moment soon 💚 Or letting the JESC team/broadcaster take over, because those kind of entries have much more potential than for example 22 or We Are One
I nominate Tom to join the Irish delegation. It seems like he has the passion for it! 😁 In all seriousness, I’m hoping that Ireland can break this curse of not putting in the effort towards their entries/national final etc.
He could indeed make a huge change. But it’s their broadcaster who doesn’t have a clue what works and doesn’t seems to be interested in getting a great result. If you watch how their NF is staged it already says enough, don’t you think?
You’re so spot on about the need to build up trust over the the next years, especially by having a more diverse range of genres be represented in a national final for example. When Mae Muller came 25th, sure many Brits got all stroppy and said that Sam Ryder was a fluke, but many didn’t. There were TONS of people saying ‘we’re still on the right trajectory, we just had a bump in the road on the night’, pointing to the fact that I Wrote a Song still ranked on the music charts. The public appreciated the higher level of effort put in by the BBC (helped by the fantastic show they put on), Mae’s likeable personality, and the fact that she was still an upgrade from the 2015-2021 years. Ireland can do it too. They probably won’t do well next year, but 2025 and 2026? It could get more likely every year with the right changes.
The important part was that Mae benefitted from participating, dispite not succeeding in the final. That means that if another artist has a song they belive in, they have an interest in trying for Eurovision. Seeing artist benefiting from Eurovision win or good rank is a big draw, but not getting punished for weaker rank is also important. If you are too scared to fail, you will not take any risks.
Great video, lots of good insight. Subscribed after watching it. A few comments: My main disagreement is that I think having a low budget doesn't automatically mean that the entries will be bad. I think the much bigger issue is simply that whoever is in charge of picking the Irish NF songs has no clue what they're doing. I don't know how many submissions they got last year, but I refuse to believe that songs like Hawaii and Wild are the absolute best submissions they got out of probably hundreds...there's just no way. For this reason, I think people like Michael Kealy using the low budget as an excuse is a bit of a copout. Moldova's NF is a disaster and they get great results pretty consistently, ESCZ 2023 basically had no budget at all and Czechia still made the Top 10 this year...you get the idea. Even Poland managed to qualify after their absolute trainwreck of an NF this year that was hated even by Poles themselves. The budget of the show shouldn't matter if the songs themselves are good and have some widespread appeal. Another solution that I haven't seen brought up much: if RTE doesn't want to completely give Eurovision up to TG4, why can't they at least collaborate with them? I know Germany did something like this in the 2010s and it got them some great results, including a win. I don't know why that seemingly hasn't been considered by either broadcaster. Completely agree about Terry Wogan. I imagine that he was great in the early days, but I've seen some of his 2000s commentary and he came off as so jaded and bitter during that time that I don't know how people even enjoyed listening to him lol. The fact that I already see some people defending him here in the comments even AFTER that interview clip you showed (which is literally just racist) is kinda wild. There are still some people going on about the contest being "political" because Wild Youth NQed. You simply cannot argue that Terry didn't have at least SOME effect on how the general public perceives Eurovision.
agree very much with the first point. i would wager that moldova has a substantially lower budget than ireland does, yet year after year they're in the final. the budget is relatively less of an issue compared to how little rte jurors know what kinds of songs are more likely to be well received.
I actually know some other people who were on the listening panel for last year, and most agreed that the 4 non-fast tracked ones that were picked were the best. Re: Hawaii and Wild youth - they were fast tracked. That was a strategy to try and increase the reputationn and notoriety of the contest. Agree about Moldova and Czechia. Poland have a HUGE budget, their population is almost 6 times ours. A collab with TG4 is an interesting idea, maybe pool resources. im not sure why they havent tried that. although generally we dont see broadcasters teaming up
@@ESCTom yeah i think midnight summer night definitely would've had a much better chance to qualify than we are one, so the talent is clearly there, but as we can clearly see sometimes it's not as simple as attracting big names to the national final
@@ESCTom Can't confirm this myself but I've seen a lot of people say that Wild Youth actually has a very good discography outside of Eurovision. That means that someone along the way thought that We Are One is what would work. Whether that was RTE or someone from Wild Youth's own team, I'm not sure. That said, if the songs chosen really were the best that Ireland had to offer then yeah that's a problem lol. RTE needs to at the _very least_ find some good songwriters that can prop up the more unknown acts.
I agree that not all Irish NF songs are bad, but the lack of quality in the staging and sound mixing makes them feel worse than they actually are. I'd argue that That's Rich is actually a pretty good song... but I only realized how good it is once I've watched the studio version video, and especially after I've seen it on the Eurovision stage. I also think that Midnight Summer Night from this year is a pretty good song, with a high potential. But it didn't look nearly as impactful as I imagine it could have looked on the bigger stage, or with the proper studio cut. I am leaning on the possibility of making Ireland do a video-based NF like Czechia does. It would be cheap, yet the songs could be treated like complete products. For me, the last straw of the low production quality in The Late Late Show was when one of the judges said for one of the songs that it ''would sound good when finished in the studio''. I mean, you are telling me it wasn't already? Could you even imagine this being said at Melodifestivalen or UMK? Or MGP, or FdC, or on Dora, for that matter? That they already plan on revamping the song ahead knowing it doesn't sound properly finished. Not something you want to advertise as a broadcaster. The comparison with the Moldovan selection is actually fair. And if Ireland did the same - had 30 songs, 20 of which are bottom of the barrel unlistenable, 7 of which are fine, and 3 of which are genuinely competitive, Ireland would have been fine just like Moldova is. I don't even think that most of the Moldovan winners are that much revamped. Just choreographed well and put into a more expensive environment. You can work on your staging if you have Soarele si luna on your hands. What to do with We Are One?
@@carlosallen85 They can but Ireland is really bad at sending good songs. I mean in JESC they send the same song every year now because they ame 4th ONCE. In Esc they dont even know what they are doing
Fantastic analysis, absolutely spot on! I am not Irish but it seems to me that the one and only reason Ireland is not doing well at the ESC nowadays is that NO ONE at RTE cares... coupled with the fact that there's no real public interest in the country. I would even say that the Irish broadcaster doesn't want to take the risk to send an entry that might win and then have to suffer the financial burden to organise the contest, which would also probably not be well viewed by Irish people considering their perception of the show. There's just no will whatsoever to even send something that could do well because there's no incentive at all for the broadcaster. I am French, and for a long time the ESC was dismissed by French people as being a joke, synonymous with cheesy music and bad outfits... Knowing that, the French broadcaster had no reason to invest in something that had not or would not get the support of the public as a whole. That also meant, no successful artist wanted to be associated with this contest... Over the last few years, a lot of work and marketing has been done by the French delegation (same one for ESC and JESC) to turn things around. General perception of the ESC in France is still not great but it is going in the right direction and It all started with a will from someone to do so, and where there's a will, there's a way! Right investments and decisions have been made, good results started to appear which made the general public take notice. French people are very competitive and if they see there is a potential to win, they're all for it. Of course, we all know that MONEY is the key factor here. The broadcaster needs to see revenue streams from advertisers or else, and that will only come if more people from the general public are engaged in the contest in a way, either because they really are proud of their national entry, or because the artist is a big name, or just because they want their country to be in the top! This year, France is sending Slimane, arguably the number 1 artist in France right now, and that says a lot! Wether he does well or not, the French broadcaster will bank on it. It's been a long process. It will take time for Ireland too, but only if someone has the will to get there. P.S : Totally agree with you about Terry Wogan...
Yea France did a great example in how you can turn public perception around but really it takes years to do so. It’s hard to do it quickly. And the French delegation have been really excellent not only at ESC but also JESC
After a month this premiered I've finally watched the entire thing! I agree 100% with your prognosis of Ireland's downfall. Most of these problems are well-entrenched, and like the UK I think they needed a wake-up call or huge shock to really start to take Eurovision seriously again.
Brilliant video! As a Brit, I was keen to see if there were any parallels with the UK's record in the contest post 2000 given how rapidly we went downhill and there are plenty! - Could RTE try to work directly with a record label or talent management agency or is that what they tried before with little success? If the budget is limited, would it be better used to find the best song available? But yes, a song that gets decent streaming figures despite a low placement could provide the necessary encouragement. - I was really shocked to see those comments from Terry Wogan in 1997, especially as Katrina Leskanich was in the audience and had recently won. I think Graham Norton has struck a better balance of sassy and respectful. After Wild Youth failed to qualify this year, an article about it from an Irish media outlet appeared in my Facebook feed; when reading the comments, it was hilarious to see the same sort of moaning we've seen from British viewers for years. Now I know why! - Definitely agree with the need to widen the field to different genres. If Eurovision attracts a lot of viewers in Ireland anyway and that lowers the pressure as far as RTE are concerned, then surely that provides an opportunity to experiment. I've said elsewhere that the BBC should try a similar approach and it may just take trial and error to get good results again. Maybe internal selection us a better route to take for experimenting with genres? Anyway, I hope you guys manage to become competitive again soon - best of luck! 🇬🇧🇮🇪
Well we already tried internal selection before and it didn't work very well. I would love to see RTÉ try to develop a national musical festival type of contest, like Albania Sweden and Italy have. That way we will get more diverse applicants and start to build up a tradition and reputation for the contest and have a better quality of submitted songs. The crazy thing about those comments from Terry Wogan is that they were made in 1997 when they had just one and before all the eastern European countries started being successful
Love, love, love this! I'm Aussie but a long suffering Irish stan, and it frustrates me the loop Ireland seems to be stuck in. You've hit the nail on the head with everything you've said, and I think the thing that's going to open things right up for Ireland is finances unfortunately. If RTE can get their finances in order and really invest in the National Final and the whole participation, things could really improve. I am hopeful about the two front runners for Eurosong this year though. I just hope that the positive reaction translates better at the actual contest than they did in 2021
I started to watch ESC in mid-90s, just around the time when Ireland absolutely OWNED Eurovision and won year after year after year... I didn't know much about the history of the contest back then and I genuinely thought that the domination of Ireland is a part of the very nature of this contest 😊. I hope so much that Ireland will find themselves in Eurovision again soon and will rise like a phoenix one day/year 😊. I'm pretty sure they have the potential, I refuse to believe that Ireland's good times are gone for ever. It's actually one of my biggest wishes about Eurovision, Ireland doing well again. Edit: After writing the comment, I actually watched the video. Excellent analysis, so comprehensive and well argued!
This is so insightful and well reasoned! Thank you for the time you put into this. I think Ireland also benefited from English only being allowed from the UK and Malta among its competitors; 1999 and after threw open the floodgates for English language earworms from anywhere, making competition more vast and overwhelming seemingly overnight.
Wonderful video Tom. I'm from the same age cohort as you are and from Belgium, so I was there to experience the era of Irish dominance! My home country never got complacent because it pretty much sucked at ESC for decades (~30 years until our first win!), and in the '90s and '00s cynicism completely took over, with much of the same faux arguments you're now hearing in Ireland ("it's all an Eastern European conspiracy", "it's a freakshow anyway", "we're a small country so people forget us") but hitting rock bottom actually was a kick in the pants. Both the Dutch- and French-speaking broadcasters began experimenting because they had nothing to lose. Plus, while the general audience and tv commentators treated ESC with the same sense of irony as the late Terry Wogan did in the UK and Ireland, I think my home country also understood the value of camp and kitsch (we're the birthplace of surrealism, after all), and the commentaries were not as caustic as Wogan's were. So we now had an environment where experimentation was encouraged, performers wouldn't feel burnt if they didn't achieve great results, the camp/kitsch was a recognised and elementary part of the package, and things started trending upwards. I think Austria is a nation that was/is in a somewhat similar boat as Belgium and Ireland and that Austria went through a similar trajectory as Belgium did. Like Belgium and Ireland, Austria is often seen as a "little brother" nation (don't come at me, nationalists) and had similar ESC issues, but began experimenting when there was no other direction left to turn to. Sometimes it worked, like with Conchita Wurst, and sometimes it was embarrassing (Woki mit dem Popo, anyone?), but now people look forward to Austrian ESC entries. I think Ireland had the unfortunate curse of being super-dominant in the '90s so they remain stuck in a Principal Skinner "no, it's the kids who are wrong"-moment. What I'm trying to get at is that while the possible solutions you describe all sound like good paths to follow, it could be simpler than that and may simply take some years of sustained experimentation. Ireland is a lovely country with a great music tradition, so I'm sure that one day it will have its 'Sam Ryder moment' and catch up!
yep some great points there, and austria and belgium are 2 other great examples of countries who made some changes and turned things around. Belgium is particlar during 2015-17 has 3 top 10s in a row, which was really amazing
Agree totally with the negatives surrounding Terry Wogan. He did his utmost to make a mockery of the contest and highlight the silliness and not the high quality of many of the songs. His comments bordered on xenophobia and to be honest I'm surprised the BBC let him get away with it. There again he was almost worshipped by the upper management. Once again a brilliant post by you Tom but I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact that Graham Norton has more or less taken the baton from Wogan and continued in the same vain. He's not as cynical but still has a tendency to ridicule some countries. I don't really think he did the UK any favours by doing so. The point you made about the Irish public not liking their own songs is very true and the same applies to the UK. Why do we have a pop at other countries not voting for us when they bomb in the UK charts. Very informative and entertaining as ever. Keep up the great work mate.
I did think about mentioning Graham,but i wasnt sure how controversial the Terry comments were going to be received, and i didnt want to go too off topic. I brought up Terry to explain the mentality in my generation, and although Graham has continued it on a bit, I dont think hes as bad and overall i find him more positive towards the contest (but i agree, he could cut out the bitchy stuff). So i dont think hes influenced my generation as much
Late response, but I will say that at least Graham is quite well-liked internationally for his dry humour. He's a bit mean sure but in a much more harmless way. Wogan did things like call Marija (Serbia 2007) ugly at least four times, he referred to Hungarians as "gypsies", said things like "Oh no one even knows where Moldova is" when they came on screen, and spent the entire time during the announcement of the points talking about political voting. Even when he ended up being wrong repeatedly. He was much, much more malicious than Graham and much more focused on his ideas about political voting, whereas Graham's comments come across as mostly light-hearted and very rarely political, unless it's something obviously silly like Greece and Cyprus giving each other 12 points for a good while
Very informative and interesting video, Tom! I agree with the analysis you've given. As for the format of the national final - Has Ireland considered having a video-based national finals like Czechia? Instead of a small stage with sound mixing issues you could present 6 or 7 HQ videos with the studio versions of those songs. Some of which could be big names also. I like the idea of diversifying the finals too in terms of genre, and also adding some songs in the Irish language. 50% of the vote could, just like in Czechia, come from the foreign fans, which could immediately draw them more to the selection they can actually influence. The time span between presenting the songs and ending the public vote could also be around one week, during which these songs could be given some time to chart, both locally and internationally. This format has given Czechia four out of five years qualifying, with two top 10 results.
Yea basically I’ve heard that these types of ideas are floated to Rte but the answer is always no and the resources are so limited. Michael really seems to be so constantly limited in what he is allowed to do. We need to be thinking outside the box like Czechia are
Thoughts... 1. It's depressing to think that the budget for Eurovision is about the same as two hours of Fair City. Makes it hard to believe that they can't find some more budget to spend on a national final/selection process/permanent Eurovision staff. (In 2016, Fair City costs added up to €10.7m annually - Wikipedia) 2. Given the restrictions of Eurosong having to be on the Late Late, why not at least be more creative with it? Give each artist the studio, a director, art department, graphics and a camera crew and pre-record their performances in front of a standing crowd. Then play those videos on the Late Late Eurosong special. Ukraine put on a really professional national final in an underground station during a war for crying out loud. 3. Why can't they release the songs on RTE Radio 1 and 2fm first and RTE-owned social media. Put them on rotation for the week in the run up to the Late Late and don't say they are for Eurovision. 4. Establish other channels to diversify the voting pool e.g. an online vote, a 2fm listeners vote, a Radio 1 vote. Give each of them a jury score. 5. RTE is already involved in the Choice Music Prize with awards for Breakthrough Artist and Irish Song of the Year. Why not make a show out of that and change the entry mechanic to allow a new song award and give the winner the option to represent at Eurovision?
Suggestion 3 is really interesting. I don't know if other countries do that but it sounds like it could work really well. The time period might need to be longer than a week, though.
My concern revolves around the lack of genuine choice in the Eurovision selection process by RTE. They handpick six songs from a vast pool of talented artists, seemingly influenced by certain factors. The public or panel then chooses from this limited selection, creating the illusion of choice. Additionally, the trend of submitting pop-type music that prioritises beats and lights over meaningful lyrics, melody, or live performance further diminishes the quality. While we do submit amateur entries, my knowledge of prominent Irish artists is very limited today if at all, as reflected in the Spotify 2020 most listened to artists in Ireland which is dominated by international names. This leads me to believe that the Eurovision issue mirrors a broader trend in Irish music, where we now import rather than export music. In the '90s and early 2000s, Ireland boasted renowned artists like Enya, Boyzone, U2, the Pogues, the Corrs and the Cranberries and many more massive net exporters of music. Their success inspired generations of singers and songwriters, contributing to our previous Eurovision achievements. In fact the Dubliners was an early inspiration to Johnny Logan, It seems that a decline in fostering local talent has impacted our ability to compete on the international music stage. A rising tide lifts all ships. Great video btw, it was nice to get this of my chest. liked and subscribed.
I agree with all of your points !! I think an international jury can really help Ireland. Having a rubric for the evaluation of the songs and the performers is also something Ireland might want to take into account
Great video. I'm a fan in Scotland so growing up in the 90s I was always envious of Ireland's success & when the UK got their 5th win in 97, which was the first UK win that I witnessed. It was a big deal to me. 2022 was a bit of a redemption story for both the UK & Spain. While the UK & Ireland had a lot of similar problems I also think that their issues are different in a lot of ways. For the UK if you look at the statistics, we we're really strong in the 60s , then a little weaker in the 70s. Weaker again in the 80s then again in the 90s, then again in the 2000nds & finally in the next decade it was a disaster. This decade despite the fact that we are only near the beginning & also had no 2020 contest to compete in, the UK for the first time in history has actually done better than the previous decade. You could argue that it is the best time to be a UK fan because we have finally escaped the steady decline that we were on. Ireland on the other hand did ok in the 60s then did better in the 70s & then even better in the 80s then hit a massive peak in the 90s before finally dropping off a cliff ever since. I think that you need to have a goal to keep you motivated while it would be nice to win & then maybe even win again on home soil. For me I personally care about protecting the records that we already have. The main one that people talk about is the UK having the most second place finishes. We also hold a record that no one ever talks about which is that we are the only country to have won at least once in 4 consecutive decades. Twice in the 60s & once in the 70s, 80s & 90s. I think the main problem that Ireland have is that they were way too successful at one point & have lacked the motivation to do better because they didn't really have anything else to accomplish. But they should start getting their act together because sooner or later Sweden is going to get that next win & take the lead. Wouldn't it be something if Ireland came back with avengance & got that record braking 8th win in Sweden. PS while I'm here bring back Morocco, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Monaco, Andorra & anyone else I'm forgetting. Also bring Kazakhstan into the contest.😊
I think the early 2000s really damaged Irish people’s perception of Eurovision (including future Irish artists). Fair to say the contest didn’t really know where it was going at this stage- quite a few wacky entries (of course we entered this party later). General public except for Eurofans have switched off and still have this general “jokey” idea of the contest. And really we haven’t been able to shake this off. Far more concerning however, is that our artists, producers, promoters and songwriters by and large have lost touch of what Eurovision is. We saw this notion of “writing a song for Eurovision”. What does that mean? I think you’d mentioned before that we seem to have this idea that Europeans need to be spoonfed bland pop. The focus has to be on creating a sustainable quality of national final, properly financed, promoted, and staged. Anyone can fluke an incredible entry for any given year- focus has to be on changing perceptions and creating an enticing opportunity for new and established artists to come forward. How we do this with the current broadcaster? I have no idea. But for the last number of years we’ve been defeated before we’ve even left the country to travel to the hosting nation. And we can easily fall further behind…
Wow Tom! Another brilliant piece of analysis and research. By the way, I think we all agree that RTE need to give you a full-time role to help Michael 🤗
also totally in agreement with your ideas and realistic projections on how things can be fixed. i'm really hoping for your Sam Ryder (Somhairle Ríodar????) moment soon, I would LOVE to see the beginning of another golden or other similar sparkly metal era for Ireland 💚
Wow,great video,as usual. I really hope that Ireland🇮🇪 will come back on top, where should be. I'm sad that country with such a tradition and really great artists all these years is on margins last 9 years. For me (Croatian🇭🇷) your Irish language is really beautiful and sounds exotic (ofc, because I don't understand it at all😂😂). Maybe you should try with ethnic entry entirely on Irish language.I think Europe would like it and I would really happy to hear a good song on your Irish language. For example, Moldova sent ethnic entries on their own language a couple of times it worked pretty well. Cheers from 🇭🇷 and good luck on ESC 2024.😀😀
Another well-rounded video - and certainly worth the wait! I feel that since Ireland and the UK have experienced similar issues (eg. meh songs, "it's all political") maybe RTE should approach the BBC for some advice. I remember Lee S saying on a podcast a year or two ago that Rachael Ashdown having been on the Reference Group (and she is again, I believe) was a great help and it gave them extra insights into what other countries do. He also said somehing about how getting a record label involved meant they could beef up the budget, as the artist's label would inject some cash too. Maybe BMG were a bit stingy 😭, but Parlophone and Capitol certainly took it more seriously and opened up the purse strings.
yea UK doing well again could actually have a massive impact on us. We used to be bitching buddies, but if you guys get another good result v soon, it'll kinda just leave us on our own to bitch, and that just makes us look sad and crazy. So UK doing well could be a massive blessing
I didn't expect the Terry Wogan direction, but excellent points. the irony when he said eurovision gets worse every year. no Terry, you got worse every year. when I watched the 80s for the first time I did it with his commentary and discovered he was excellent back then, before it started going down hill.
I think you are onto something with the Wogan commentary having a big effect. I was finally going back to watch some ESC's I hadn't seen and ended up watching in reverse order. Swapping from Norton to Wogan commentary was a little startling. After several of them I ended up switching to versions without his commentary because I just got tired of him crapping on something I love so much (not to mention the gross xenophobia). I could easily see how that attitude shaped public opinion. Also, RTE absolutely should reach out for help from the fans. I know so many of us would gladly help for free just for the chance to see Ireland actually do itself proud again! In the short term, I'm hoping for a groundswell of local support that makes RTE up their game, as well as hoping this new host of the Late Late Show does a proper job of hosting the NF. It's hard to really expect much with how they've treated it in the past, but I'll always hold out hope they can make an effort in this contest, even if it's just small improvements that might add up to something eventually. Or they get a huge Irish artist to just Anouk it! If it worked for the Dutch, it can work for the Irish!🤣
yea even small changes mean that were moving in the right direction. I think the goal should be to have a big national in 5-10 years time that showcases the best of irish music
Wow have to say amazing video,i watched it from start to end.Your knowledge on Eurovision is second to none and every topic you spoke about is spot on,12 points from me 😊
One of the issues for Ireland (and also the UK) is that from 1999 onwards the countries were allowed to sing in English. That made the songs of former non-English singing countries much more understandable and a bigger audience could immediately relate to the song. Before 1999, English, French and German spoken songs (28 out of 46 winners since 1956) were leading the way. So nowadays you have to really stand out with your song to have a chance of qualifying, let alone winning. About Terry Wogan: I'm Dutch so I don't know anything much about this, but from what I've seen, heard and read about it, it seems Graham Norton is keeping the Terry Wogan tradition very much alive. But it's unfair to blame those two entirely. Nowadays, people have very strong own opinions (a bit too strong if you ask me) and they investigate everything by themselves on the internet. I haven't dived into it yet, but I suspect the Eastern European countries did support eachother during their first years in Eurovision. That's a lot less in this day and age. And as for the solutions: I agree with the short term solution of getting foreign writers and producers to collaborate with Irish singers. Wouter Hardy is a good example. He won in 2019 with Duncan Laurence, came 3rd in 2021 with Gjon's Tears for Switzerland and this year (2023) he contributed to Estonia's song. For the long term, RTE should be willing to invest in a national final with great songs. In the first couple of years they probably would lose money on it, but if the results would come up, so would the revenues of a national final. No reward without risk, right? And come on, who wouldn't love to see Ireland climbing up the animated bar charts again? 😉
well thats the thing - RTE arent willing to make that investment that youre speaking about As for Wouter, I would LOVE him to write a song for us. I saw He was one of the writers on Alika's song last year, so he does write for other countries still. I actually messaged him on social media asking him to submit something for our national final this yer
I don't know if you are old enough, but maybe you remember the outright vicious attack by Paul de Leeuw on Barbara (Belgium, 1993) and that treatment for basically the entire field. I hold him responsible very much for what happened in the UK and Ireland. Consistently drip feeding your audience venom has this type of result.
I also think that another reason for Ireland being so successful in the 90s is a combination of them singing in English in combination with new Eastern European countries ebtering with public and jury being more knowledgabe in English than in any other language. When other countries could also sing in English (1999), the result of the Irish end British entries immediately tanked.
Ireland just lost their anger to win ESC, we hope that the tie with Sweden reignite the engine and finally we'll have them back in the game. Ireland has great musicians and a pretty decent music industry it would be amazing to see that in ESC, adaptability is the key, even Lithuania is working now in order to get better results and it's working. Eurovision is now in its neutral era, people is voting what they actually like over "this is my neighbour's song" and jury has helped to balance and lead to that place. That's why we've seen the top3 in Romance languages in 2021 or a tie race in 2019, and a "polemic", but I think, a very fair result this year. Ireland is not the only lost in that smoke, there are others in that path too, and others walking out of there.
Brilliant analysis Tom. I honestly think that our biggest issues remain with the Late Late Show special and the serious lack of man-power that Michael Keely has behind him. We are the only country that have this set up and yet we are the only country that are failing year after year. Pre-recorded performances in front of a live, standing audience could be aired 1-2 weeks before the RTE LL Eurosong show, with voting running up to the Late Late special and wining announcement on the night. Giving all the potential songs a chance to be promoted across radio & social media & for the public to familiarise themselves with the entries. If you look at some of the recent music shows & concerts that RTE have aired such as "The Main Stage" presented by Erica Cody & Danny O'Reilly, "Soundtrack To My Life with the RTE Concert Orchestra" by Niall Breslin, "Ireland 100" at the RDS with multiple established artists, "Other Voices" and various locations, and even "Songs From An Empty Room" recorded during lockdown at the Olympia would still be a better choice than the current Late Late set up. They could even sell tickets! Without a doubt there is a fan base there to sell out a 2k capacity venue. Another option could be to look at doing something similar to Czech Republic's national final 2023, which went out on live stream on youtube and was open to international voting. Then overcoming Michael Keely's labour issue! I am sure there are plenty of staff at RTE, especially those that find themselves as delegates staying at the expensive hotels in Europe when it comes to show time that could spare 60mins per week to work on Michael's team during the off season. Also those that have worked on producing the above shows to create a selection panel and wheel in established artists, how in the name of god it's come down to one mans particular music taste and his pals over the last number of years is scandalous! Michael has said himself that all his focus atm is on the New Year's Eve concert which is ridiculous, there needs to be an Irish HOD working full time on Eurovision from May onwards.
I’m not going to say that this will fix all problems but as a gaeilge speaker myself I find it ridiculous how we don’t get any Irish language entries I believe this will intrigue other countries to vote for us because it’s a language they probably haven’t heard before and seeing a country do something different will spark a big interest Trad music is big in the gaeilteacht and in schools around Ireland so I think they should reach out and find this talent The genre of music we keep coming out with is perceiving us a sh*t UK which some countries perhaps already think of us when they think about Ireland We literally cannot do worse Take every risk imaginable
Absolutely agree. In my opinion, it's such a shame that during almost 60 years of participation, Ireland has sent only ONE song in Irish to Eurovision. What an unused potential, especially now when different languages are fortunately more appreciated again in the contest.
Totally agree. The recent success of Måneskin, Kalush and Käärijä shows that the audience is more than keen to hear non-English language songs. I know IMLÉ (Irish language collective) were interested in submitting a song this year, hopefully they did. Also, Cruachan's song submission is partially in Irish as far as I know
I agree with SilenceStation that ONE irish song in 60+ years is absolutely crazy. We definitely sung more in English until 99 because it gave us a bigger advantage with lyric comprehension
An interesting aspect of how Sweden attracts our biggest artists has to do with record-sales (yeah, in this day and age). The compilation record for the Swedish competition is usually one of the biggest seller every year and the constributions get their profit share based upon the placement of the song in the competition. So a good placement directly translates into cash and not only "exposure".
Fantastic analysis Tom, your opinions on the state of Ireland in Eurovision are so well thought out. I really hope that Ireland can make the turnaround other countries have already made. That may be someone well-known stepping up (as happened in the Netherlands), or taking a different approach (as happened in Portugal and Switzerland). I'm quite surprised though that the attitude in Ireland seems to be that Europeans don't like Ireland, what would anybody have against Ireland?
its not so much "Europeans dont like us", thats more the Brexit crew. In IReland its more "its all political and everyone just votes for their neighbours". They have no response though if you point out then "why arent the results the same every year if everyone is just voting for their friends?"
Great video as always Tom. Few things i want to ask/ give my opinion on. Is there really much difference between public and internal selections? Yes, the national final picks from 6 songs, but those 6 are still picked by people behind the scenes, and the songs are always similar and its fairly obvious which one will win. I believe they have selected national final songs that have been written by international writers, and they've all been poor. It feels like we get their scraps. I'd be more in favour of selecting irish writers, considering how brilliant irish music culture is. I feel one thing you didnt talk about is how little incentive there is for irish artists to try for Eurovision. Its a lot easier for Irish artists to get big in places like the UK/US compared to other European countries. The likes of The Coronas, Walking on Cars, Cian Ducrot and Dermot Kennedy come to mind. Given how poor RTE handle Eurovision, there's little reason for any irish artist to do Eurovision unless they're desperate. I feel you were a bit harsh on Tubridy, I wonder how much of what he said on Eurosong he genuinely believed as opposed to just doing his job and trying to hype Eurovision up for us. He also quit the Late Late before the pay scandal was revealed, and I feel the video suggests he quit because of the scandal, which I dont think was the case. (I'm open to being corrected on this.) Overall a tremendous video which definitely gets to the heart of the matter. Sadly I dont think our fortunes will change soon.
thank you MArk 🙏🏻 NF v IS - well the big different is the publicity in applying. lets say CMAT goes for NF and ends up losing to Dustin the Turkey - thats bad for her career and she doesnt want to risk it. Internal seelction she can try her luck and then deny she ever applied. So theres a reputation preservation element to it. I agree about the incentives. we need to make our NF into a platform for success in Ireland first and then also Europe. We need our NF winning song to go to number 1 WITH the help of the national radio stations. Re: tubridy, the general consensus from what ive seen if that he quit in anticpation of the scandal being publicised. Also ive no problem if someone doesnt know what theyre talking about. I know nothing about cars, but then If i went and hosted a car show, I wouldnt go exclaiming "this is the best car ever!" - id try to be more humble about the fact I was dealing in something I knew nothing about, DO SOME RESEARCH (of which Ryan clearly did absolutely 0), and generally just keep a lower profile
Great deep dive into why Ireland hasn't been competitive in today's ESC, Tom! Side note, I am excited to see what Brooke brings to the national final - she deserved to qualify in 2022!
Ireland and UK have such a diverse and rich music industry, so they have potential and can achieve best results every year if they WANT! Finland really showed how a national selection should be nowadays and how to achieve amazing results. I really want Ireland to come back stronger! P.s. If Ryan could qualify in 2018 (in that competitive Semi-Final), I believe that formula of staging should be a good example how to elevate a Mid-Tempo song! Above that, irish songs at JESC recently are great ❤
Question for you Tom, when you were a kid watching Ireland slay in the 90s, did you ever think the legend that is Dustin the Turkey would happen 10-15 years later? 😆 Ireland in Eurovision is just strange to me and I'm glad you gave a simple explanation of things. Another puzzling aspect is how countries like Moldova have almost 0 budget and lots of political issues (moreso before their current president was elected), a low quality national final, etc and still manage to bring at least competent staging and performances to Eurovision.
haha nah i wouldnt have. but then again when it happened in 2008, it wasnt really a surprise, cos there was already the atmosphere that the contest wasnt to be taken seriously, so i wasnt hugely surprised
Great video, Tom. Everything you say in this video is absolutely spot on. However, I do think we need to address an elephant in the room regarding Ireland's legacy at the contest: *IT'S A FARCE!* Yes we won it seven times, but that was when we were one of the only ones allowed to sing in English and most of our wins were clustered in the 90s. Our bubble burst when the language rule was dropped. Since then, we have suffered terribly from, as you allude to, a disastrous cocktail of musical and artistic jetlag, arrogance and cynicism towards the contest (both rooted in our legacy, which, again, is bogus), and frankly a lack of proper time or financial investment into the contest by RTÉ (a s****y little NF and no socials specifically dedicated to Eurovision). It's no wonder we are now the ONLY Western European country that have yet to finish in the top 5 in the televoting era. Our Eurovision legacy is really a farce. Sad but true.
yea ive mentioned that in a previous video where I feel that our 7 arent the same as Sweden's 7 cos theyve won 3 of theirs during this more difficult period with a higher standard and more countries. I still think that we did very well in the 90s, but yea we just found a recipe for success and havent moved on or evolved at all
I agree with you regarding Terry Wogan, too. I came to Eurovision in 2010/11 and so the only commentators I really know are Graham Norton and Marty Whelan. Having said that, I have watched Terry cover the Eurovision on UA-cam (particularly in the 2000s) and I did find a lot of his takes very entertaining. However, some of his other remarks about the Eurovision were condescending and the more negative comments ("it's all political, we're not going to win again any day soon, so let's just sneer at the foreigners") were taken as gospel in the UK and Ireland and it has proven very difficult for both countries to shake off those perceptions (they have also influenced Marty Whelan and Graham Norton's commentaries). Although I think Terry was largely playing to a middle England and a demographic who not only listened to his show every morning on BBC Radio 2, but who had less than favourable views about Europe as a whole and would, by and large, later go on and vote to leave the European Union in 2016. We'll never know for sure if Terry held similar opinions on Europe and the EU as a whole, but comments about scoffing and sneering at the foreigners likely went down well with many of his listeners, who would have been older and, by extension, Eurosceptic. However, I also think that as time goes by, Wogan's influence will fade out more and more, especially as Graham and Rylan are more down with the kids and appeal to a larger audience than Terry Wogan did. As for Ryan Tubridy, I completely agree with you. I don't dislike him as a broadcaster but I have found him to be quite arrogant and very Irish, and not in a good way. The likes of Terry Wogan, Graham Norton and Patrick Kielty are Irish, but they had and have lots of sticking power about them. They're all household names in Britain. Ryan Tubridy, meanwhile, is very parochial and that made him insufferable at times. Marry that with the fact that he knows sweet FA about the Eurovision and of course he's going to come out with something as obtuse as "I think we're going to win the Eurovision this year". That insufferability during Eurosong was extremely embarrassing to watch and it showed Ireland in quite a shameful light. I hope all this makes sense. I make lots of points but often they contradict each other and don't make sense.
During the glory decade of the 1990s, Ireland had a national final - Eurosong - that toured the theatres and concert halls of Ireland with 8-10 songs each year. There was nearly always an Irish/Gaeilge language entry and even though most were ballads there was some variety with folk and rock. It was very much of its time, but the format was good. What happened to that and why did it stop? Is that all down to Father Ted? Or was it the Celtic Tiger comedown?
im not sure why. but i feel like we need a "irish song festival" like many countries have so the emphasis is on the best of irish music, and then the winner happesn to go to ESC
Blimey, I'd never thought of Terry as negative, I'd always just laughed along with him, not thinking about it, but you're absolutely right. Huh! You never know when you're being conditioned do you?!!!
Ireland only won with ballads and less strong on up tempo pop songs (except Lipstick). Also missing now the advantage of singing in English as most countries do now. 🇳🇱 had also a bad track record but Anouk changed the pattern with Birds in 2013. The only way out is to ask a big name to write a song or even better, to participate. So call Bono, Hozier or Niall Horan! It’s not political because everybody likes your beautiful country, but you need a reasonable song☺️
yep, the problem now is in just working out HOW do we get these people to agree to come. because they have all these myths and perceptions about the contest.
A lot of years I agree with the non-qualification but that Brooke got robbed. Still one of the songs that gets me strutting down the street the most when it pops up on my Spotify
Ireland is one of my favourite countries in Eurovision (and in Europe). The secret for victory is a strong, honest NF that reflects what's currently being done in the country, music wise. So you have to appeal to quality musicians and artists for the competition. On a side note, Sara Tavares (8th place in Eurovision 1994) passed away today at the age of 45. Cheers from Lisbon.
I personally think that an internal selection in partnership with a record company is still an option worth considering. I also wonder if a more fun, more enthusiastic commentary team would help the perception of Eurovision in Ireland - Marty Whelan has been doing it for almost 25 years now. I don’t think giving the contest to TG4 is a solution if that is going to limit Ireland to only sending Irish language songs. Also I think RTE should be able to get it together! I totally agree with you about budget and public reaction.
The ESC changes...it goes through trends with some countries on a high and some on a low. I am sadly old enough to recall the 90s and it was frustrating when Ireland went on that winning streak...oh AGAIN!!! They got very cocky to the point they sent a turkey to represent them. They have been sending turkeys ever since and most really didn't deserve to qualify. I think social media has a factor in that a lot of influence comes from the "experts" months before the competition. Top 3 , winner non qualifiers all decided in advance. Hey it's a song contest ....fun so just enjoy. It brings us all together and I can't wait for Sweden24. Good luck Ireland and ALL nations that enter. Tom I notice we are STILL mentioning Brexit.....please make it STOP!!!.....8years!!!!!!
yes you mentioned about the Brexit thing before, so i specifically changed how i referenced it to say it was a minority. in the context of this topic, I had to bring it up as its extremely relevant. The Irish people who are blaming politics are our equivalent of those Brexit excuse people and they are diverting pressure away from RTe, so its a huge factor in our problem.
@@ESCTom Thanks and I really do appreciate your response. Your feedback is always brilliant and so knowledgeable. My wish would be for the competition to be non political and just pure entertainment ......a fantasy I know. Can't wait for both the JESC and of course the big event in May.
I think there was a time when ESC was "political". But it is changing. As you've said Greece and Cyprus aren't a bond anymore and most countries show a similar pattern. I think it has to do with music in general. During the late 80's en early 90's Ireland was a big name with artists like U2, Sinead and many more. It was the same for the UK. We were used to this sound. Norway and Denmark won the ESC with this sound. Nowadays it is indeed different because the whole performance matters. Being dutch I'm thinking it's not all about the money. It's about choosing a direction and Ireland, like the UK, Germany and Spain, has some difficulties. Sometimes it works out. I have to be honest that Anouk was my reason to get involved after 20 years of watching and not getting the vibe. Here in the Netherlands people weren't very enthusiastic (what's new) about the song but afterwards it did change perspective. We have a bad taste for music so national selections didn't work. But after last year we are not sure anymore. I think it's time to let the true Irish identity back in. Not like a Riverdance but a bit like a Katell Keinig- kind of song. You would have my vote.
Why doesn't RTE do something like ESCZ in Czechia. Have each artist perform on the Late Late (Late?) Show and then people vote, and the next week announce the results. Cut the "judging" panel, replace that bit with the artist introducing themselves like a postcard. I think that'll reduce the cringe factor by a lot.
yea possibly. i still dont think thatll increase the reputation of our NF. its still a side act on a small stage on another TV show. I think the format will still turn off established acts
Aside from Germany (personal bias), the number one country that I really hope scores high in 2024 is Ireland. You guys need that boost of encouragement even more than Germans do. I think it will just take the right kind of person confident in sending a good enough song. If there's any genre I can see Ireland scoring high in, it'd be Irish folk music. Fans love the ethnic entries from countries like Moldova and Ukraine.
As Eurovision is today it needs a chake up, it doesn't serve the audience, the crowd, the people the contest is supposed to be for. I hope what happened in Liverpool will never happen again.
It's a random crazy idea but Michael should try pitching a show that requires a stage and a studio like the Masked singer to RTÉ and if it gets accepted, try using that stage for the national final 😂
I am absolutely no expert on Ireland, but I wonder whether something that you mentioned earlier this year as a potential strategy for the UK (I think) would work: Use internal selection so that the song is released first without telling it is a potential Eurovision entry and see how it does before making the final decision. Or perhaps have a small number of songs that are tried out that way. What this would mean in practice is that the artist would avoid taking part in an open national selection and would leave for ESC with a song that everyone knows already has done well. Or would it still be too risky or unattractive a move to make?
yea i mean theoretically that was in place from 2016-2021. maybe they talked to big artsts during that time, but eventually nobody was willing to commit. it might be easier now with the succes of Rosa, Maneskin and Duncan etc.
I agree here. Releasing the songs to the public with zero Eurovision connection first and see what works. I do still feel that if you release a song here in Ireland with the words Eurovision attached, the public will not be interested. Or even if they can scan what’s released after September, approach the artists and ask if they would submit it.
I also think the selection needs to be made much earlier in the year or late the previous year and get that song out there on the airways asap, eg. Norway last year
I think it would be good if Ireland sent something different I think if they do something in the Irish language they may have a better chance to qualify for the final.
It wasn't just the "Those savages from Eastern Europe collude with each other" conspiracy that Terry Wogan was preaching when it comes to the mostly negative perception of the contest in modern days on the British Isles (Great Britain and Ireland). Wogan had pretty negative view on the LGBTQ+ community. He called the 2007 winner Marija Šerifović (who would later come out as lesbian) 'ugly' and after Conchita Wurst won in 2014, he called the drag queen a 'freakshow' and decrying the contest as a 'farce'. In addition to his more or less homophobic remarks he also called Paul de Leeuw, Dutch spokesperson for the 2006 contest as 'eejit' (a.k.a. idiot), called the 2001 hosts Søren Pilmark and Natasja Crone Back, as "Doctor Death and the Tooth Fairy" and criticized other acts that finished right in front of the UK, when those nations were just sending better songs than what the UK was sending. I think some of the blame should also be put on Johnny Logan. In 1999 the requirement to sing your song in your native language was no longer required which allowed Eastern European countries to sing in English and in the following year the live orchestra accompanying the acts was dropped. This caused Logan to criticise the direction of the contest as nothing more than a 'live karaoke show'.
It's quite sad what is happening with Ireland at Eurovision nowadays. From one of the strongest to one of the weakest countries at Eurovision. They need to try with something else, they need to send a song completely in Irish language because these sweet radio friendly songs didn't madc any favor to Ireland even Ryan O'Shaughnessy qualified in final beacuse of the two male dancers not because of his songs. They need to send a song like: 1.Anna Kearney - Banshee (JESC 2019) 2.Sophie Lennon - Solas (JESC 2022) or 3.Jessica McKean - Aisling (JESC 2023)' if they want to qualify in final. I really like to see Ireland to be as good as they were in the 90's.
How about pulling out altogether for a few years? I can't see what style of song would win it for them. They've had ballads and folk songs, but what next? It would have to be something unique.
I entered a song entirely in Irish with a big fiddle solo that I'm soooo proud of but they weren't interested unfortunately but I'd LOVE if anyone wanted to have a listen to "Tar Liom" on my channel! It's about a siren luring men to their watery grave and has a big operatic climax 🎶😁
I'm a fairly new, but now devoted, Eurovision fan. So much so that I've made it a point to watch all (yes, all) of the previous contests. Many of the broadcasts available have the English commentary, and I agree with you that Terry Wogan was toxic. Some of what he said was lighthearted; much of it was inappropriate, unprofessional, dismissive, and mean-spirited. I know times were different then, and things you could get away with then you can't now. Still, I had times listening to him that I wished I could reach through time and punch him in the face - he was so offensive. Talk about not knowing how to read the room. Graham Norton can run close to the ragged edge, but he's generally not an asshole.
I feel like that about the german commentator, too. Although to a lesser extent. He wasn't as offensive. I watched it this year for the first time in years on the german broadcast instead of the Internet because I watched it with other people and I felt some comments were really unnessissaryly mean. He retired with this year's Eurovision so I guess we see where it's heading now. In general, I watched the non-commented version here on youtube of all of the years back to 2010 and for me that is so much cleaner, less annoying and focused on the show. I prefer it that way.
I think one part of it is that when the UK and Germany have bad results, they can't really blame the broadcaster because that who is paying them! so they have to come up with other excuses Itll be interesting to see in the future how Grahams comments age. Maybe there will be less tolerance for the meanness in the future. but generally I feel Graham is better, although he does still have his bitchy moments
if it makes you feel any better this is how ireland did in my personal rankinks in the "dark ages"😁 2014-21st 2015-11th 2016-24th 2017-39th 2018-40th 2019-2nd🥈 2020-1st🥇 2021-13th 2022-10th 2023-25th
im not sure why they decided to break away from that model. Perhaps those types of shows werent bring in enough ratings? Or could be that the talent pool in Ireland wasnt big enough to sustain having a new season every year like the UK could
@@ESCTom I remember _You're A Star_ being event television. The whole country seemed to be talking about it. I think it ultimately failed because as popular as it was it was essentially a mixture of two formats: talent show and national final, and the national final part (the most important bit) felt tacked on at the very end almost as an afterthought. But it was extremely well produced.
@ESCTom hope to see you there ,my son is the fanatic and personally want go tabainn to go to eurovision but would listen to the boy band at home personally but that has no chance, thanks
I eternally remember the horse song in Father Ted. It was parody but hit some truth...? I am sure YLE is ultimately happy Käärijä did not win but came second... Although surely UMK aspires to aim high in the future.
The issues are basically the same as The UK but Ireland has to go through a semi final. If we had to go through a semi final over the last 10 years, Sam would of obviously qualified. I think we would of qualified in 2014 and 2017 but not the other years. I agree with you about Terry. Also the argument for UK bad result are due to Brexit falls flat on its face when you look at Ireland and Germany. It's almost a joke who's turn it is to be last. UK or Germany. Finally, so many countries have improved their game over the last 10 years so making the competition harder. For example, I'm old enough to remember Finland and Norway often in last place and The Netherlands failing to qualify for 9 years. Sorry this is a rather lengthy comment but I hope Ireland will start having more success. Over the last 50 years, Sweden, UK and Ireland have had the most successful European artists, in terms of chart/commercial success across the world. U2, Sinead, Westlife, ect. Germany has a population of approximately 15 times more than Ireland but doesn't have many artists with such international success. Good luck Ireland
yea great comment, i should have really emphasized in this how much NEtherlands and Finland are two great examples of how you cant turn things around quite quickly. As ive mentioned it in other videos, but it would have been really pertinent to mention it here
Sorry to disappoint, I don't really have an opinion but I still watched the video eagerly. One thing that Ireland could perhaps try is pushing hard on the ethnic heritage. No matter which genre: rock, pop, fusion or even rap (please, spare me the rap), the song should go for a distinct traditional Irish sound. It needn't be in Irish, especially if the author is aiming at European markets, but it should be instantly recognisable as Irish. I have no idea whether it will work or not, but it's worth the experiment.
well they did try that in 2013 and 2014 and it didnt work. tbh i think its a bit of a gimmick, and its more important how good the song is. if theres a good song with those elements, great. but if the appeal of the song is just those elements, it wont work
Thank you for all the nice comments! One thing I wish I had emphasised more was about Netherlands🇳🇱 and Finland🇫🇮 turned their fortunes around. They both used to suck, made big changes and are now 2 of the strongest countries in the contest. So a big change is possible!
Both of those countries' records also show that a Eurovision renaissance may not be linear upward trend; the Netherlands went up and down before winning in 2019 and Finland did the same prior to 2023. It wouldn't surprise me if the same happened to France, UK, Spain and eventually Ireland.
On a side note, I've just heard Dance You Off in a petrol station which was a bit random!
@@patrickh3385 to be fair going from 2nd to 25th is a little bit more than going up and down, hopefully the UK comes back with force in 2025.
I hope someone in the Irish delegation sees this video. You’re literally way more knowledgeable and have better suggestions than people whose job it is to do Eurovision in Ireland.
It’s difficult for any countries to consistently produce great results, especially for smaller countries, but there is no reason for a musically talented country like Ireland to not qualify 8 of the 9 last editions.
Just send a song that will chart in Ireland and go from there 💙 I really hope we will get to see an Irish renaissance at Eurovision soon.
yep, our number 1 goal this year should just be to get our own song to top 10 in OUR charts. Because that also encompasses our national radios getting more involved and raising the profile of the contest as people see that artist being successful
Here’s another thing: BE NICE TO THE ARTISTS. Even if an artist doesn’t qualify or win, make sure they feel like they got something out of the NF.
and national radio stadions should be giving more airplay to the songs so incentivises the artists financially as well
Thank you for this video! As a German eurofan I can relate, the problems are similar. Looking at UK, they had similar problems than Ireland. Manifesting Ireland to have at least a Michael Schulte or Sam Ryder moment soon 💚
Or letting the JESC team/broadcaster take over, because those kind of entries have much more potential than for example 22 or We Are One
I nominate Tom to join the Irish delegation. It seems like he has the passion for it! 😁
In all seriousness, I’m hoping that Ireland can break this curse of not putting in the effort towards their entries/national final etc.
He could indeed make a huge change. But it’s their broadcaster who doesn’t have a clue what works and doesn’t seems to be interested in getting a great result. If you watch how their NF is staged it already says enough, don’t you think?
You’re so spot on about the need to build up trust over the the next years, especially by having a more diverse range of genres be represented in a national final for example. When Mae Muller came 25th, sure many Brits got all stroppy and said that Sam Ryder was a fluke, but many didn’t. There were TONS of people saying ‘we’re still on the right trajectory, we just had a bump in the road on the night’, pointing to the fact that I Wrote a Song still ranked on the music charts. The public appreciated the higher level of effort put in by the BBC (helped by the fantastic show they put on), Mae’s likeable personality, and the fact that she was still an upgrade from the 2015-2021 years. Ireland can do it too. They probably won’t do well next year, but 2025 and 2026? It could get more likely every year with the right changes.
The important part was that Mae benefitted from participating, dispite not succeeding in the final. That means that if another artist has a song they belive in, they have an interest in trying for Eurovision. Seeing artist benefiting from Eurovision win or good rank is a big draw, but not getting punished for weaker rank is also important. If you are too scared to fail, you will not take any risks.
yep, really the best way to attract the best songs/artists in the future is to associate the contest with success
I’m still annoyed that they (for whatever reason) decided to put Lesley Roy on a bloody treadmill in 2021.
And the complicated cardboard cut-outs which she had to punch whilst on the treadmill. It definitely affected the singing.
it was definitely a workout!
Great video, lots of good insight. Subscribed after watching it. A few comments:
My main disagreement is that I think having a low budget doesn't automatically mean that the entries will be bad. I think the much bigger issue is simply that whoever is in charge of picking the Irish NF songs has no clue what they're doing. I don't know how many submissions they got last year, but I refuse to believe that songs like Hawaii and Wild are the absolute best submissions they got out of probably hundreds...there's just no way. For this reason, I think people like Michael Kealy using the low budget as an excuse is a bit of a copout. Moldova's NF is a disaster and they get great results pretty consistently, ESCZ 2023 basically had no budget at all and Czechia still made the Top 10 this year...you get the idea. Even Poland managed to qualify after their absolute trainwreck of an NF this year that was hated even by Poles themselves. The budget of the show shouldn't matter if the songs themselves are good and have some widespread appeal.
Another solution that I haven't seen brought up much: if RTE doesn't want to completely give Eurovision up to TG4, why can't they at least collaborate with them? I know Germany did something like this in the 2010s and it got them some great results, including a win. I don't know why that seemingly hasn't been considered by either broadcaster.
Completely agree about Terry Wogan. I imagine that he was great in the early days, but I've seen some of his 2000s commentary and he came off as so jaded and bitter during that time that I don't know how people even enjoyed listening to him lol. The fact that I already see some people defending him here in the comments even AFTER that interview clip you showed (which is literally just racist) is kinda wild. There are still some people going on about the contest being "political" because Wild Youth NQed. You simply cannot argue that Terry didn't have at least SOME effect on how the general public perceives Eurovision.
agree very much with the first point. i would wager that moldova has a substantially lower budget than ireland does, yet year after year they're in the final. the budget is relatively less of an issue compared to how little rte jurors know what kinds of songs are more likely to be well received.
I actually know some other people who were on the listening panel for last year, and most agreed that the 4 non-fast tracked ones that were picked were the best. Re: Hawaii and Wild youth - they were fast tracked. That was a strategy to try and increase the reputationn and notoriety of the contest.
Agree about Moldova and Czechia. Poland have a HUGE budget, their population is almost 6 times ours.
A collab with TG4 is an interesting idea, maybe pool resources. im not sure why they havent tried that. although generally we dont see broadcasters teaming up
@@ESCTom yeah i think midnight summer night definitely would've had a much better chance to qualify than we are one, so the talent is clearly there, but as we can clearly see sometimes it's not as simple as attracting big names to the national final
@@ESCTom Can't confirm this myself but I've seen a lot of people say that Wild Youth actually has a very good discography outside of Eurovision. That means that someone along the way thought that We Are One is what would work. Whether that was RTE or someone from Wild Youth's own team, I'm not sure. That said, if the songs chosen really were the best that Ireland had to offer then yeah that's a problem lol. RTE needs to at the _very least_ find some good songwriters that can prop up the more unknown acts.
I agree that not all Irish NF songs are bad, but the lack of quality in the staging and sound mixing makes them feel worse than they actually are. I'd argue that That's Rich is actually a pretty good song... but I only realized how good it is once I've watched the studio version video, and especially after I've seen it on the Eurovision stage. I also think that Midnight Summer Night from this year is a pretty good song, with a high potential. But it didn't look nearly as impactful as I imagine it could have looked on the bigger stage, or with the proper studio cut. I am leaning on the possibility of making Ireland do a video-based NF like Czechia does. It would be cheap, yet the songs could be treated like complete products.
For me, the last straw of the low production quality in The Late Late Show was when one of the judges said for one of the songs that it ''would sound good when finished in the studio''. I mean, you are telling me it wasn't already? Could you even imagine this being said at Melodifestivalen or UMK? Or MGP, or FdC, or on Dora, for that matter? That they already plan on revamping the song ahead knowing it doesn't sound properly finished. Not something you want to advertise as a broadcaster.
The comparison with the Moldovan selection is actually fair. And if Ireland did the same - had 30 songs, 20 of which are bottom of the barrel unlistenable, 7 of which are fine, and 3 of which are genuinely competitive, Ireland would have been fine just like Moldova is. I don't even think that most of the Moldovan winners are that much revamped. Just choreographed well and put into a more expensive environment. You can work on your staging if you have Soarele si luna on your hands. What to do with We Are One?
I hope Ireland get back on their feet and return to their glory days 🇬🇧❤️🇮🇪
I hope so too but I doubt it
@@carlosallen85 They can but Ireland is really bad at sending good songs. I mean in JESC they send the same song every year now because they ame 4th ONCE. In Esc they dont even know what they are doing
@@FredrikE-e8w agreed.
Well its happened
@@Rubixire_gsI will only accept if they do well another year. And another. We all hoped the Uk would get constantly great results.
Fantastic analysis, absolutely spot on! I am not Irish but it seems to me that the one and only reason Ireland is not doing well at the ESC nowadays is that NO ONE at RTE cares... coupled with the fact that there's no real public interest in the country. I would even say that the Irish broadcaster doesn't want to take the risk to send an entry that might win and then have to suffer the financial burden to organise the contest, which would also probably not be well viewed by Irish people considering their perception of the show. There's just no will whatsoever to even send something that could do well because there's no incentive at all for the broadcaster.
I am French, and for a long time the ESC was dismissed by French people as being a joke, synonymous with cheesy music and bad outfits... Knowing that, the French broadcaster had no reason to invest in something that had not or would not get the support of the public as a whole. That also meant, no successful artist wanted to be associated with this contest... Over the last few years, a lot of work and marketing has been done by the French delegation (same one for ESC and JESC) to turn things around. General perception of the ESC in France is still not great but it is going in the right direction and It all started with a will from someone to do so, and where there's a will, there's a way! Right investments and decisions have been made, good results started to appear which made the general public take notice. French people are very competitive and if they see there is a potential to win, they're all for it. Of course, we all know that MONEY is the key factor here. The broadcaster needs to see revenue streams from advertisers or else, and that will only come if more people from the general public are engaged in the contest in a way, either because they really are proud of their national entry, or because the artist is a big name, or just because they want their country to be in the top!
This year, France is sending Slimane, arguably the number 1 artist in France right now, and that says a lot! Wether he does well or not, the French broadcaster will bank on it. It's been a long process. It will take time for Ireland too, but only if someone has the will to get there.
P.S : Totally agree with you about Terry Wogan...
Yea France did a great example in how you can turn public perception around but really it takes years to do so. It’s hard to do it quickly. And the French delegation have been really excellent not only at ESC but also JESC
After a month this premiered I've finally watched the entire thing! I agree 100% with your prognosis of Ireland's downfall. Most of these problems are well-entrenched, and like the UK I think they needed a wake-up call or huge shock to really start to take Eurovision seriously again.
Brilliant video! As a Brit, I was keen to see if there were any parallels with the UK's record in the contest post 2000 given how rapidly we went downhill and there are plenty!
- Could RTE try to work directly with a record label or talent management agency or is that what they tried before with little success? If the budget is limited, would it be better used to find the best song available? But yes, a song that gets decent streaming figures despite a low placement could provide the necessary encouragement.
- I was really shocked to see those comments from Terry Wogan in 1997, especially as Katrina Leskanich was in the audience and had recently won. I think Graham Norton has struck a better balance of sassy and respectful. After Wild Youth failed to qualify this year, an article about it from an Irish media outlet appeared in my Facebook feed; when reading the comments, it was hilarious to see the same sort of moaning we've seen from British viewers for years. Now I know why!
- Definitely agree with the need to widen the field to different genres. If Eurovision attracts a lot of viewers in Ireland anyway and that lowers the pressure as far as RTE are concerned, then surely that provides an opportunity to experiment. I've said elsewhere that the BBC should try a similar approach and it may just take trial and error to get good results again. Maybe internal selection us a better route to take for experimenting with genres?
Anyway, I hope you guys manage to become competitive again soon - best of luck! 🇬🇧🇮🇪
Well we already tried internal selection before and it didn't work very well. I would love to see RTÉ try to develop a national musical festival type of contest, like Albania Sweden and Italy have. That way we will get more diverse applicants and start to build up a tradition and reputation for the contest and have a better quality of submitted songs.
The crazy thing about those comments from Terry Wogan is that they were made in 1997 when they had just one and before all the eastern European countries started being successful
Love, love, love this! I'm Aussie but a long suffering Irish stan, and it frustrates me the loop Ireland seems to be stuck in. You've hit the nail on the head with everything you've said, and I think the thing that's going to open things right up for Ireland is finances unfortunately. If RTE can get their finances in order and really invest in the National Final and the whole participation, things could really improve.
I am hopeful about the two front runners for Eurosong this year though. I just hope that the positive reaction translates better at the actual contest than they did in 2021
I started to watch ESC in mid-90s, just around the time when Ireland absolutely OWNED Eurovision and won year after year after year... I didn't know much about the history of the contest back then and I genuinely thought that the domination of Ireland is a part of the very nature of this contest 😊. I hope so much that Ireland will find themselves in Eurovision again soon and will rise like a phoenix one day/year 😊. I'm pretty sure they have the potential, I refuse to believe that Ireland's good times are gone for ever. It's actually one of my biggest wishes about Eurovision, Ireland doing well again.
Edit: After writing the comment, I actually watched the video. Excellent analysis, so comprehensive and well argued!
Thank you Silence 🙏🏻
This is so insightful and well reasoned! Thank you for the time you put into this. I think Ireland also benefited from English only being allowed from the UK and Malta among its competitors; 1999 and after threw open the floodgates for English language earworms from anywhere, making competition more vast and overwhelming seemingly overnight.
Wonderful video Tom. I'm from the same age cohort as you are and from Belgium, so I was there to experience the era of Irish dominance! My home country never got complacent because it pretty much sucked at ESC for decades (~30 years until our first win!), and in the '90s and '00s cynicism completely took over, with much of the same faux arguments you're now hearing in Ireland ("it's all an Eastern European conspiracy", "it's a freakshow anyway", "we're a small country so people forget us") but hitting rock bottom actually was a kick in the pants.
Both the Dutch- and French-speaking broadcasters began experimenting because they had nothing to lose. Plus, while the general audience and tv commentators treated ESC with the same sense of irony as the late Terry Wogan did in the UK and Ireland, I think my home country also understood the value of camp and kitsch (we're the birthplace of surrealism, after all), and the commentaries were not as caustic as Wogan's were. So we now had an environment where experimentation was encouraged, performers wouldn't feel burnt if they didn't achieve great results, the camp/kitsch was a recognised and elementary part of the package, and things started trending upwards.
I think Austria is a nation that was/is in a somewhat similar boat as Belgium and Ireland and that Austria went through a similar trajectory as Belgium did. Like Belgium and Ireland, Austria is often seen as a "little brother" nation (don't come at me, nationalists) and had similar ESC issues, but began experimenting when there was no other direction left to turn to. Sometimes it worked, like with Conchita Wurst, and sometimes it was embarrassing (Woki mit dem Popo, anyone?), but now people look forward to Austrian ESC entries. I think Ireland had the unfortunate curse of being super-dominant in the '90s so they remain stuck in a Principal Skinner "no, it's the kids who are wrong"-moment.
What I'm trying to get at is that while the possible solutions you describe all sound like good paths to follow, it could be simpler than that and may simply take some years of sustained experimentation. Ireland is a lovely country with a great music tradition, so I'm sure that one day it will have its 'Sam Ryder moment' and catch up!
yep some great points there, and austria and belgium are 2 other great examples of countries who made some changes and turned things around. Belgium is particlar during 2015-17 has 3 top 10s in a row, which was really amazing
It should be given to TG4, their production for Junior Eurovision is excellent.
Agree totally with the negatives surrounding Terry Wogan. He did his utmost to make a mockery of the contest and highlight the silliness and not the high quality of many of the songs. His comments bordered on xenophobia and to be honest I'm surprised the BBC let him get away with it. There again he was almost worshipped by the upper management. Once again a brilliant post by you Tom but I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact that Graham Norton has more or less taken the baton from Wogan and continued in the same vain. He's not as cynical but still has a tendency to ridicule some countries. I don't really think he did the UK any favours by doing so. The point you made about the Irish public not liking their own songs is very true and the same applies to the UK. Why do we have a pop at other countries not voting for us when they bomb in the UK charts. Very informative and entertaining as ever. Keep up the great work mate.
I did think about mentioning Graham,but i wasnt sure how controversial the Terry comments were going to be received, and i didnt want to go too off topic. I brought up Terry to explain the mentality in my generation, and although Graham has continued it on a bit, I dont think hes as bad and overall i find him more positive towards the contest (but i agree, he could cut out the bitchy stuff). So i dont think hes influenced my generation as much
Thanks for the reply. Very good of you.
Late response, but I will say that at least Graham is quite well-liked internationally for his dry humour. He's a bit mean sure but in a much more harmless way. Wogan did things like call Marija (Serbia 2007) ugly at least four times, he referred to Hungarians as "gypsies", said things like "Oh no one even knows where Moldova is" when they came on screen, and spent the entire time during the announcement of the points talking about political voting. Even when he ended up being wrong repeatedly. He was much, much more malicious than Graham and much more focused on his ideas about political voting, whereas Graham's comments come across as mostly light-hearted and very rarely political, unless it's something obviously silly like Greece and Cyprus giving each other 12 points for a good while
Amazing video Tom! Probably the most comprehensive explanation of how to do well in Eurovision I have seen.
Thank you Domenic! ❤️
Bedankt
Ontzettend bedankt Anneke 🙏🏻❤️
Very informative and interesting video, Tom! I agree with the analysis you've given. As for the format of the national final - Has Ireland considered having a video-based national finals like Czechia? Instead of a small stage with sound mixing issues you could present 6 or 7 HQ videos with the studio versions of those songs. Some of which could be big names also. I like the idea of diversifying the finals too in terms of genre, and also adding some songs in the Irish language. 50% of the vote could, just like in Czechia, come from the foreign fans, which could immediately draw them more to the selection they can actually influence. The time span between presenting the songs and ending the public vote could also be around one week, during which these songs could be given some time to chart, both locally and internationally. This format has given Czechia four out of five years qualifying, with two top 10 results.
Yea basically I’ve heard that these types of ideas are floated to Rte but the answer is always no and the resources are so limited. Michael really seems to be so constantly limited in what he is allowed to do. We need to be thinking outside the box like Czechia are
Thoughts...
1. It's depressing to think that the budget for Eurovision is about the same as two hours of Fair City. Makes it hard to believe that they can't find some more budget to spend on a national final/selection process/permanent Eurovision staff. (In 2016, Fair City costs added up to €10.7m annually - Wikipedia)
2. Given the restrictions of Eurosong having to be on the Late Late, why not at least be more creative with it? Give each artist the studio, a director, art department, graphics and a camera crew and pre-record their performances in front of a standing crowd. Then play those videos on the Late Late Eurosong special. Ukraine put on a really professional national final in an underground station during a war for crying out loud.
3. Why can't they release the songs on RTE Radio 1 and 2fm first and RTE-owned social media. Put them on rotation for the week in the run up to the Late Late and don't say they are for Eurovision.
4. Establish other channels to diversify the voting pool e.g. an online vote, a 2fm listeners vote, a Radio 1 vote. Give each of them a jury score.
5. RTE is already involved in the Choice Music Prize with awards for Breakthrough Artist and Irish Song of the Year. Why not make a show out of that and change the entry mechanic to allow a new song award and give the winner the option to represent at Eurovision?
Suggestion 3 is really interesting. I don't know if other countries do that but it sounds like it could work really well. The time period might need to be longer than a week, though.
Some really great ideas! ❤🇮🇪
I particularly love idea 5! also they could give the winner "first refusal" so they arent committed to going to eurovision if they dont want
Brilliant points, #2 is the key I think.
32:30 Watching this in 2024 makes me feel very hopeful
My concern revolves around the lack of genuine choice in the Eurovision selection process by RTE. They handpick six songs from a vast pool of talented artists, seemingly influenced by certain factors. The public or panel then chooses from this limited selection, creating the illusion of choice. Additionally, the trend of submitting pop-type music that prioritises beats and lights over meaningful lyrics, melody, or live performance further diminishes the quality.
While we do submit amateur entries, my knowledge of prominent Irish artists is very limited today if at all, as reflected in the Spotify 2020 most listened to artists in Ireland which is dominated by international names. This leads me to believe that the Eurovision issue mirrors a broader trend in Irish music, where we now import rather than export music. In the '90s and early 2000s, Ireland boasted renowned artists like Enya, Boyzone, U2, the Pogues, the Corrs and the Cranberries and many more massive net exporters of music. Their success inspired generations of singers and songwriters, contributing to our previous Eurovision achievements. In fact the Dubliners was an early inspiration to Johnny Logan, It seems that a decline in fostering local talent has impacted our ability to compete on the international music stage. A rising tide lifts all ships.
Great video btw, it was nice to get this of my chest. liked and subscribed.
I agree with all of your points !! I think an international jury can really help Ireland. Having a rubric for the evaluation of the songs and the performers is also something Ireland might want to take into account
Great video. I'm a fan in Scotland so growing up in the 90s I was always envious of Ireland's success & when the UK got their 5th win in 97, which was the first UK win that I witnessed. It was a big deal to me. 2022 was a bit of a redemption story for both the UK & Spain. While the UK & Ireland had a lot of similar problems I also think that their issues are different in a lot of ways. For the UK if you look at the statistics, we we're really strong in the 60s , then a little weaker in the 70s. Weaker again in the 80s then again in the 90s, then again in the 2000nds & finally in the next decade it was a disaster. This decade despite the fact that we are only near the beginning & also had no 2020 contest to compete in, the UK for the first time in history has actually done better than the previous decade. You could argue that it is the best time to be a UK fan because we have finally escaped the steady decline that we were on. Ireland on the other hand did ok in the 60s then did better in the 70s & then even better in the 80s then hit a massive peak in the 90s before finally dropping off a cliff ever since. I think that you need to have a goal to keep you motivated while it would be nice to win & then maybe even win again on home soil. For me I personally care about protecting the records that we already have. The main one that people talk about is the UK having the most second place finishes. We also hold a record that no one ever talks about which is that we are the only country to have won at least once in 4 consecutive decades. Twice in the 60s & once in the 70s, 80s & 90s. I think the main problem that Ireland have is that they were way too successful at one point & have lacked the motivation to do better because they didn't really have anything else to accomplish. But they should start getting their act together because sooner or later Sweden is going to get that next win & take the lead. Wouldn't it be something if Ireland came back with avengance & got that record braking 8th win in Sweden. PS while I'm here bring back Morocco, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Monaco, Andorra & anyone else I'm forgetting. Also bring Kazakhstan into the contest.😊
I think the early 2000s really damaged Irish people’s perception of Eurovision (including future Irish artists). Fair to say the contest didn’t really know where it was going at this stage- quite a few wacky entries (of course we entered this party later).
General public except for Eurofans have switched off and still have this general “jokey” idea of the contest. And really we haven’t been able to shake this off.
Far more concerning however, is that our artists, producers, promoters and songwriters by and large have lost touch of what Eurovision is. We saw this notion of “writing a song for Eurovision”. What does that mean? I think you’d mentioned before that we seem to have this idea that Europeans need to be spoonfed bland pop.
The focus has to be on creating a sustainable quality of national final, properly financed, promoted, and staged. Anyone can fluke an incredible entry for any given year- focus has to be on changing perceptions and creating an enticing opportunity for new and established artists to come forward.
How we do this with the current broadcaster? I have no idea. But for the last number of years we’ve been defeated before we’ve even left the country to travel to the hosting nation. And we can easily fall further behind…
I think you are completely right 👍 yes they need to improve the profile of ESC in Ireland is the key ❤🇮🇪
Wow Tom! Another brilliant piece of analysis and research. By the way, I think we all agree that RTE need to give you a full-time role to help Michael 🤗
Thank you Beatrice ❤️
i've got a tea and snacks for this one!!! long anticipated and well worth the wait!! ☘
also totally in agreement with your ideas and realistic projections on how things can be fixed. i'm really hoping for your Sam Ryder (Somhairle Ríodar????) moment soon, I would LOVE to see the beginning of another golden or other similar sparkly metal era for Ireland 💚
Somhairle Ríodar 😂
Outstanding stats Tom , Lets hope we quilify this year, One Sub added
Wow,great video,as usual. I really hope that Ireland🇮🇪 will come back on top, where should be. I'm sad that country with such a tradition and really great artists all these years is on margins last 9 years. For me (Croatian🇭🇷) your Irish language is really beautiful and sounds exotic (ofc, because I don't understand it at all😂😂). Maybe you should try with ethnic entry entirely on Irish language.I think Europe would like it and I would really happy to hear a good song on your Irish language. For example, Moldova sent ethnic entries on their own language a couple of times it worked pretty well. Cheers from 🇭🇷 and good luck on ESC 2024.😀😀
Another well-rounded video - and certainly worth the wait! I feel that since Ireland and the UK have experienced similar issues (eg. meh songs, "it's all political") maybe RTE should approach the BBC for some advice. I remember Lee S saying on a podcast a year or two ago that Rachael Ashdown having been on the Reference Group (and she is again, I believe) was a great help and it gave them extra insights into what other countries do. He also said somehing about how getting a record label involved meant they could beef up the budget, as the artist's label would inject some cash too. Maybe BMG were a bit stingy 😭, but Parlophone and Capitol certainly took it more seriously and opened up the purse strings.
yea UK doing well again could actually have a massive impact on us. We used to be bitching buddies, but if you guys get another good result v soon, it'll kinda just leave us on our own to bitch, and that just makes us look sad and crazy. So UK doing well could be a massive blessing
I didn't expect the Terry Wogan direction, but excellent points. the irony when he said eurovision gets worse every year. no Terry, you got worse every year. when I watched the 80s for the first time I did it with his commentary and discovered he was excellent back then, before it started going down hill.
3:53 well since it's 1956-2003 and 2004-present, i'd call them "pre-semis era" and "semis era" or just "old era" and "new/modern era"
Great analysis and realistic solutions! I especially appreciated the point about intentionally including different music genres :)
I think you are onto something with the Wogan commentary having a big effect. I was finally going back to watch some ESC's I hadn't seen and ended up watching in reverse order. Swapping from Norton to Wogan commentary was a little startling. After several of them I ended up switching to versions without his commentary because I just got tired of him crapping on something I love so much (not to mention the gross xenophobia). I could easily see how that attitude shaped public opinion.
Also, RTE absolutely should reach out for help from the fans. I know so many of us would gladly help for free just for the chance to see Ireland actually do itself proud again! In the short term, I'm hoping for a groundswell of local support that makes RTE up their game, as well as hoping this new host of the Late Late Show does a proper job of hosting the NF. It's hard to really expect much with how they've treated it in the past, but I'll always hold out hope they can make an effort in this contest, even if it's just small improvements that might add up to something eventually.
Or they get a huge Irish artist to just Anouk it! If it worked for the Dutch, it can work for the Irish!🤣
yea even small changes mean that were moving in the right direction.
I think the goal should be to have a big national in 5-10 years time that showcases the best of irish music
Fantastic presentation.
Thank you Michael 🙏🏻
Thank you for the video, I have always wondered about this and you answered all my doubts, greetings from Brasil
🙏🏻
Thanks for the video! As always, amazing work. Very happy that you're doing this off season as well!
Thanks Dashew
Wow have to say amazing video,i watched it from start to end.Your knowledge on Eurovision is second to none and every topic you spoke about is spot on,12 points from me 😊
Wow, thank you!
One of the issues for Ireland (and also the UK) is that from 1999 onwards the countries were allowed to sing in English. That made the songs of former non-English singing countries much more understandable and a bigger audience could immediately relate to the song. Before 1999, English, French and German spoken songs (28 out of 46 winners since 1956) were leading the way. So nowadays you have to really stand out with your song to have a chance of qualifying, let alone winning.
About Terry Wogan: I'm Dutch so I don't know anything much about this, but from what I've seen, heard and read about it, it seems Graham Norton is keeping the Terry Wogan tradition very much alive. But it's unfair to blame those two entirely. Nowadays, people have very strong own opinions (a bit too strong if you ask me) and they investigate everything by themselves on the internet.
I haven't dived into it yet, but I suspect the Eastern European countries did support eachother during their first years in Eurovision. That's a lot less in this day and age.
And as for the solutions: I agree with the short term solution of getting foreign writers and producers to collaborate with Irish singers. Wouter Hardy is a good example. He won in 2019 with Duncan Laurence, came 3rd in 2021 with Gjon's Tears for Switzerland and this year (2023) he contributed to Estonia's song.
For the long term, RTE should be willing to invest in a national final with great songs. In the first couple of years they probably would lose money on it, but if the results would come up, so would the revenues of a national final. No reward without risk, right?
And come on, who wouldn't love to see Ireland climbing up the animated bar charts again? 😉
well thats the thing - RTE arent willing to make that investment that youre speaking about
As for Wouter, I would LOVE him to write a song for us. I saw He was one of the writers on Alika's song last year, so he does write for other countries still. I actually messaged him on social media asking him to submit something for our national final this yer
I don't know if you are old enough, but maybe you remember the outright vicious attack by Paul de Leeuw on Barbara (Belgium, 1993) and that treatment for basically the entire field. I hold him responsible very much for what happened in the UK and Ireland. Consistently drip feeding your audience venom has this type of result.
I also think that another reason for Ireland being so successful in the 90s is a combination of them singing in English in combination with new Eastern European countries ebtering with public and jury being more knowledgabe in English than in any other language. When other countries could also sing in English (1999), the result of the Irish end British entries immediately tanked.
Ireland just lost their anger to win ESC, we hope that the tie with Sweden reignite the engine and finally we'll have them back in the game. Ireland has great musicians and a pretty decent music industry it would be amazing to see that in ESC, adaptability is the key, even Lithuania is working now in order to get better results and it's working. Eurovision is now in its neutral era, people is voting what they actually like over "this is my neighbour's song" and jury has helped to balance and lead to that place. That's why we've seen the top3 in Romance languages in 2021 or a tie race in 2019, and a "polemic", but I think, a very fair result this year. Ireland is not the only lost in that smoke, there are others in that path too, and others walking out of there.
fingers crossed for a return of Ireland to the final. there are some great songs in their history and a well deserved spot at the top of the rankings.
Brilliant analysis Tom. I honestly think that our biggest issues remain with the Late Late Show special and the serious lack of man-power that Michael Keely has behind him. We are the only country that have this set up and yet we are the only country that are failing year after year.
Pre-recorded performances in front of a live, standing audience could be aired 1-2 weeks before the RTE LL Eurosong show, with voting running up to the Late Late special and wining announcement on the night. Giving all the potential songs a chance to be promoted across radio & social media & for the public to familiarise themselves with the entries.
If you look at some of the recent music shows & concerts that RTE have aired such as "The Main Stage" presented by Erica Cody & Danny O'Reilly, "Soundtrack To My Life with the RTE Concert Orchestra" by Niall Breslin, "Ireland 100" at the RDS with multiple established artists, "Other Voices" and various locations, and even "Songs From An Empty Room" recorded during lockdown at the Olympia would still be a better choice than the current Late Late set up.
They could even sell tickets! Without a doubt there is a fan base there to sell out a 2k capacity venue.
Another option could be to look at doing something similar to Czech Republic's national final 2023, which went out on live stream on youtube and was open to international voting.
Then overcoming Michael Keely's labour issue! I am sure there are plenty of staff at RTE, especially those that find themselves as delegates staying at the expensive hotels in Europe when it comes to show time that could spare 60mins per week to work on Michael's team during the off season.
Also those that have worked on producing the above shows to create a selection panel and wheel in established artists, how in the name of god it's come down to one mans particular music taste and his pals over the last number of years is scandalous! Michael has said himself that all his focus atm is on the New Year's Eve concert which is ridiculous, there needs to be an Irish HOD working full time on Eurovision from May onwards.
Thanks
Thank you so much Declan ❤️❤️
Thanks so much for continuing to make great content! Maybe Michael might play it to someone in RTE so they can ignore all the hard data you produce 😂😜
😂
I’ve been looking forward to this video for so long, great job
Thank you, Aengus 🙏
I’m not going to say that this will fix all problems but as a gaeilge speaker myself I find it ridiculous how we don’t get any Irish language entries
I believe this will intrigue other countries to vote for us because it’s a language they probably haven’t heard before and seeing a country do something different will spark a big interest
Trad music is big in the gaeilteacht and in schools around Ireland so I think they should reach out and find this talent
The genre of music we keep coming out with is perceiving us a sh*t UK which some countries perhaps already think of us when they think about Ireland
We literally cannot do worse
Take every risk imaginable
Absolutely agree. In my opinion, it's such a shame that during almost 60 years of participation, Ireland has sent only ONE song in Irish to Eurovision. What an unused potential, especially now when different languages are fortunately more appreciated again in the contest.
Totally agree. The recent success of Måneskin, Kalush and Käärijä shows that the audience is more than keen to hear non-English language songs. I know IMLÉ (Irish language collective) were interested in submitting a song this year, hopefully they did. Also, Cruachan's song submission is partially in Irish as far as I know
yea I dont know how we attract the talent in the Gaeltachts to come forward and apply. last year there was only ONE irish song submitted to Eurosong
I agree with SilenceStation that ONE irish song in 60+ years is absolutely crazy. We definitely sung more in English until 99 because it gave us a bigger advantage with lyric comprehension
An interesting aspect of how Sweden attracts our biggest artists has to do with record-sales (yeah, in this day and age). The compilation record for the Swedish competition is usually one of the biggest seller every year and the constributions get their profit share based upon the placement of the song in the competition. So a good placement directly translates into cash and not only "exposure".
Yeah, it’s a very good business model for attracting good artists and it’s also a consistent system with longevity
Fantastic analysis Tom, your opinions on the state of Ireland in Eurovision are so well thought out. I really hope that Ireland can make the turnaround other countries have already made. That may be someone well-known stepping up (as happened in the Netherlands), or taking a different approach (as happened in Portugal and Switzerland). I'm quite surprised though that the attitude in Ireland seems to be that Europeans don't like Ireland, what would anybody have against Ireland?
its not so much "Europeans dont like us", thats more the Brexit crew. In IReland its more "its all political and everyone just votes for their neighbours". They have no response though if you point out then "why arent the results the same every year if everyone is just voting for their friends?"
@@ESCTom ah OK, I know what you mean. In our dark period that was something you heard a lot here as well
The RTÉ should hire you. Would love to see something new in the Gealic language, something like Shum Go_A in Irish would be awesome.
haha, they are financially in terrible situation right now, but ive offered to volunteer with them this year
Great video as always Tom. Few things i want to ask/ give my opinion on.
Is there really much difference between public and internal selections? Yes, the national final picks from 6 songs, but those 6 are still picked by people behind the scenes, and the songs are always similar and its fairly obvious which one will win.
I believe they have selected national final songs that have been written by international writers, and they've all been poor. It feels like we get their scraps. I'd be more in favour of selecting irish writers, considering how brilliant irish music culture is.
I feel one thing you didnt talk about is how little incentive there is for irish artists to try for Eurovision. Its a lot easier for Irish artists to get big in places like the UK/US compared to other European countries. The likes of The Coronas, Walking on Cars, Cian Ducrot and Dermot Kennedy come to mind. Given how poor RTE handle Eurovision, there's little reason for any irish artist to do Eurovision unless they're desperate.
I feel you were a bit harsh on Tubridy, I wonder how much of what he said on Eurosong he genuinely believed as opposed to just doing his job and trying to hype Eurovision up for us. He also quit the Late Late before the pay scandal was revealed, and I feel the video suggests he quit because of the scandal, which I dont think was the case. (I'm open to being corrected on this.)
Overall a tremendous video which definitely gets to the heart of the matter. Sadly I dont think our fortunes will change soon.
thank you MArk 🙏🏻
NF v IS - well the big different is the publicity in applying. lets say CMAT goes for NF and ends up losing to Dustin the Turkey - thats bad for her career and she doesnt want to risk it. Internal seelction she can try her luck and then deny she ever applied. So theres a reputation preservation element to it.
I agree about the incentives. we need to make our NF into a platform for success in Ireland first and then also Europe. We need our NF winning song to go to number 1 WITH the help of the national radio stations.
Re: tubridy, the general consensus from what ive seen if that he quit in anticpation of the scandal being publicised. Also ive no problem if someone doesnt know what theyre talking about. I know nothing about cars, but then If i went and hosted a car show, I wouldnt go exclaiming "this is the best car ever!" - id try to be more humble about the fact I was dealing in something I knew nothing about, DO SOME RESEARCH (of which Ryan clearly did absolutely 0), and generally just keep a lower profile
Great deep dive into why Ireland hasn't been competitive in today's ESC, Tom! Side note, I am excited to see what Brooke brings to the national final - she deserved to qualify in 2022!
Yeah it’ll be interesting to see if she makes the final this year and also what type of song did she bring. Thanks Willard 🙏
Ireland and UK have such a diverse and rich music industry, so they have potential and can achieve best results every year if they WANT!
Finland really showed how a national selection should be nowadays and how to achieve amazing results.
I really want Ireland to come back stronger!
P.s. If Ryan could qualify in 2018 (in that competitive Semi-Final), I believe that formula of staging should be a good example how to elevate a Mid-Tempo song!
Above that, irish songs at JESC recently are great ❤
yea 2018 was particularly impressive because of how CRAZY difficult that SF was. it was amazing when he was called last
I think you’re absolutely correct. It’s 1 breakthrough act that does well, feels genuine and is quality
Question for you Tom, when you were a kid watching Ireland slay in the 90s, did you ever think the legend that is Dustin the Turkey would happen 10-15 years later? 😆
Ireland in Eurovision is just strange to me and I'm glad you gave a simple explanation of things. Another puzzling aspect is how countries like Moldova have almost 0 budget and lots of political issues (moreso before their current president was elected), a low quality national final, etc and still manage to bring at least competent staging and performances to Eurovision.
haha nah i wouldnt have.
but then again when it happened in 2008, it wasnt really a surprise, cos there was already the atmosphere that the contest wasnt to be taken seriously, so i wasnt hugely surprised
Fantasiic video Tom. Didn't skip one part of it! Agreed with 99% apart from Mr. Kealy - think we need a change.
Great video, Tom. Everything you say in this video is absolutely spot on.
However, I do think we need to address an elephant in the room regarding Ireland's legacy at the contest:
*IT'S A FARCE!*
Yes we won it seven times, but that was when we were one of the only ones allowed to sing in English and most of our wins were clustered in the 90s. Our bubble burst when the language rule was dropped. Since then, we have suffered terribly from, as you allude to, a disastrous cocktail of musical and artistic jetlag, arrogance and cynicism towards the contest (both rooted in our legacy, which, again, is bogus), and frankly a lack of proper time or financial investment into the contest by RTÉ (a s****y little NF and no socials specifically dedicated to Eurovision). It's no wonder we are now the ONLY Western European country that have yet to finish in the top 5 in the televoting era.
Our Eurovision legacy is really a farce. Sad but true.
yea ive mentioned that in a previous video where I feel that our 7 arent the same as Sweden's 7 cos theyve won 3 of theirs during this more difficult period with a higher standard and more countries.
I still think that we did very well in the 90s, but yea we just found a recipe for success and havent moved on or evolved at all
I agree with you regarding Terry Wogan, too. I came to Eurovision in 2010/11 and so the only commentators I really know are Graham Norton and Marty Whelan. Having said that, I have watched Terry cover the Eurovision on UA-cam (particularly in the 2000s) and I did find a lot of his takes very entertaining. However, some of his other remarks about the Eurovision were condescending and the more negative comments ("it's all political, we're not going to win again any day soon, so let's just sneer at the foreigners") were taken as gospel in the UK and Ireland and it has proven very difficult for both countries to shake off those perceptions (they have also influenced Marty Whelan and Graham Norton's commentaries). Although I think Terry was largely playing to a middle England and a demographic who not only listened to his show every morning on BBC Radio 2, but who had less than favourable views about Europe as a whole and would, by and large, later go on and vote to leave the European Union in 2016. We'll never know for sure if Terry held similar opinions on Europe and the EU as a whole, but comments about scoffing and sneering at the foreigners likely went down well with many of his listeners, who would have been older and, by extension, Eurosceptic. However, I also think that as time goes by, Wogan's influence will fade out more and more, especially as Graham and Rylan are more down with the kids and appeal to a larger audience than Terry Wogan did.
As for Ryan Tubridy, I completely agree with you. I don't dislike him as a broadcaster but I have found him to be quite arrogant and very Irish, and not in a good way. The likes of Terry Wogan, Graham Norton and Patrick Kielty are Irish, but they had and have lots of sticking power about them. They're all household names in Britain. Ryan Tubridy, meanwhile, is very parochial and that made him insufferable at times. Marry that with the fact that he knows sweet FA about the Eurovision and of course he's going to come out with something as obtuse as "I think we're going to win the Eurovision this year". That insufferability during Eurosong was extremely embarrassing to watch and it showed Ireland in quite a shameful light.
I hope all this makes sense. I make lots of points but often they contradict each other and don't make sense.
Tom … loved this post … absolutely spot on 👍
Thanks Aidan
During the glory decade of the 1990s, Ireland had a national final - Eurosong - that toured the theatres and concert halls of Ireland with 8-10 songs each year. There was nearly always an Irish/Gaeilge language entry and even though most were ballads there was some variety with folk and rock. It was very much of its time, but the format was good. What happened to that and why did it stop? Is that all down to Father Ted? Or was it the Celtic Tiger comedown?
im not sure why. but i feel like we need a "irish song festival" like many countries have so the emphasis is on the best of irish music, and then the winner happesn to go to ESC
Great video, thanks
Thank you Gavin
Blimey, I'd never thought of Terry as negative, I'd always just laughed along with him, not thinking about it, but you're absolutely right. Huh! You never know when you're being conditioned do you?!!!
Yeah, I was exactly the same when I was watching in the 90s 🤷♂️
There’s so much you covered in this video & it was very well put. The last time Ireland won was the year I was born damn.
Thanks Darragh 🙏🏻
Ireland only won with ballads and less strong on up tempo pop songs (except Lipstick). Also missing now the advantage of singing in English as most countries do now. 🇳🇱 had also a bad track record but Anouk changed the pattern with Birds in 2013. The only way out is to ask a big name to write a song or even better, to participate. So call Bono, Hozier or Niall Horan! It’s not political because everybody likes your beautiful country, but you need a reasonable song☺️
yep, the problem now is in just working out HOW do we get these people to agree to come. because they have all these myths and perceptions about the contest.
The fact that I literally screamed when I saw this
Me whenever I see Tom has a video 😍🥳🤩
A lot of years I agree with the non-qualification but that Brooke got robbed. Still one of the songs that gets me strutting down the street the most when it pops up on my Spotify
Ah, this is what I needed with my glass of wine!
Ireland is one of my favourite countries in Eurovision (and in Europe). The secret for victory is a strong, honest NF that reflects what's currently being done in the country, music wise. So you have to appeal to quality musicians and artists for the competition. On a side note, Sara Tavares (8th place in Eurovision 1994) passed away today at the age of 45. Cheers from Lisbon.
I personally think that an internal selection in partnership with a record company is still an option worth considering. I also wonder if a more fun, more enthusiastic commentary team would help the perception of Eurovision in Ireland - Marty Whelan has been doing it for almost 25 years now. I don’t think giving the contest to TG4 is a solution if that is going to limit Ireland to only sending Irish language songs. Also I think RTE should be able to get it together! I totally agree with you about budget and public reaction.
some good points there
Re: Marty, honestly ive never listened to his commentary once, so i cant comment on what type of tone he uses
The ESC changes...it goes through trends with some countries on a high and some on a low. I am sadly old enough to recall the 90s and it was frustrating when Ireland went on that winning streak...oh AGAIN!!! They got very cocky to the point they sent a turkey to represent them. They have been sending turkeys ever since and most really didn't deserve to qualify. I think social media has a factor in that a lot of influence comes from the "experts" months before the competition. Top 3 , winner non qualifiers all decided in advance. Hey it's a song contest ....fun so just enjoy. It brings us all together and I can't wait for Sweden24. Good luck Ireland and ALL nations that enter.
Tom I notice we are STILL mentioning Brexit.....please make it STOP!!!.....8years!!!!!!
yes you mentioned about the Brexit thing before, so i specifically changed how i referenced it to say it was a minority. in the context of this topic, I had to bring it up as its extremely relevant. The Irish people who are blaming politics are our equivalent of those Brexit excuse people and they are diverting pressure away from RTe, so its a huge factor in our problem.
@@ESCTom Thanks and I really do appreciate your response. Your feedback is always brilliant and so knowledgeable. My wish would be for the competition to be non political and just pure entertainment ......a fantasy I know. Can't wait for both the JESC and of course the big event in May.
Love the video. Been waiting so long for it. Thanks!!
I still remember when the UK sent the flight attendants over the singer from The Darkness.
☠️
Watching this after “how Finland got good at Eurovision” 😘🤌🏼 chefs kiss!
Wogan's comments were iconic. I don't remember anything Norton had said.
Great video :)
Thank you 🙏🏻
I think there was a time when ESC was "political". But it is changing. As you've said Greece and Cyprus aren't a bond anymore and most countries show a similar pattern. I think it has to do with music in general. During the late 80's en early 90's Ireland was a big name with artists like U2, Sinead and many more. It was the same for the UK. We were used to this sound. Norway and Denmark won the ESC with this sound. Nowadays it is indeed different because the whole performance matters.
Being dutch I'm thinking it's not all about the money. It's about choosing a direction and Ireland, like the UK, Germany and Spain, has some difficulties. Sometimes it works out. I have to be honest that Anouk was my reason to get involved after 20 years of watching and not getting the vibe. Here in the Netherlands people weren't very enthusiastic (what's new) about the song but afterwards it did change perspective. We have a bad taste for music so national selections didn't work. But after last year we are not sure anymore.
I think it's time to let the true Irish identity back in. Not like a Riverdance but a bit like a Katell Keinig- kind of song. You would have my vote.
Why doesn't RTE do something like ESCZ in Czechia. Have each artist perform on the Late Late (Late?) Show and then people vote, and the next week announce the results. Cut the "judging" panel, replace that bit with the artist introducing themselves like a postcard. I think that'll reduce the cringe factor by a lot.
yea possibly. i still dont think thatll increase the reputation of our NF. its still a side act on a small stage on another TV show. I think the format will still turn off established acts
Aside from Germany (personal bias), the number one country that I really hope scores high in 2024 is Ireland. You guys need that boost of encouragement even more than Germans do. I think it will just take the right kind of person confident in sending a good enough song. If there's any genre I can see Ireland scoring high in, it'd be Irish folk music. Fans love the ethnic entries from countries like Moldova and Ukraine.
Well Norways song in 95 WAS very Celtic in sound
As Eurovision is today it needs a chake up, it doesn't serve the audience, the crowd, the people the contest is supposed to be for. I hope what happened in Liverpool will never happen again.
You didn't mention how Terry's tone went more sour when the orchestra was abolished, comparing playback to karaoke.
It's a random crazy idea but Michael should try pitching a show that requires a stage and a studio like the Masked singer to RTÉ and if it gets accepted, try using that stage for the national final 😂
yea that could work as a short term solution. long term, we need to make an annual music festival like you, ITA, ALB, SWE etc
I am absolutely no expert on Ireland, but I wonder whether something that you mentioned earlier this year as a potential strategy for the UK (I think) would work: Use internal selection so that the song is released first without telling it is a potential Eurovision entry and see how it does before making the final decision. Or perhaps have a small number of songs that are tried out that way. What this would mean in practice is that the artist would avoid taking part in an open national selection and would leave for ESC with a song that everyone knows already has done well. Or would it still be too risky or unattractive a move to make?
yea i mean theoretically that was in place from 2016-2021. maybe they talked to big artsts during that time, but eventually nobody was willing to commit. it might be easier now with the succes of Rosa, Maneskin and Duncan etc.
I agree here. Releasing the songs to the public with zero Eurovision connection first and see what works. I do still feel that if you release a song here in Ireland with the words Eurovision attached, the public will not be interested. Or even if they can scan what’s released after September, approach the artists and ask if they would submit it.
I also think the selection needs to be made much earlier in the year or late the previous year and get that song out there on the airways asap, eg. Norway last year
Interesting video, had no idea about Terry Wogan for example... yikes
I knew he had a negative impact on the UK's perception of Eurovision, but I didn't know it was the same for Ireland as well. Though it makes sense.
the RTE commentator in the 90s was Pat Kenny who is just 😑, so i dont blame people for watching Terry instead
I think it would be good if Ireland sent something different I think if they do something in the Irish language they may have a better chance to qualify for the final.
I agree if this song is strong enough, but if the only gimmick is that it's in Irish and the song isnt great then it won't work
It wasn't just the "Those savages from Eastern Europe collude with each other" conspiracy that Terry Wogan was preaching when it comes to the mostly negative perception of the contest in modern days on the British Isles (Great Britain and Ireland). Wogan had pretty negative view on the LGBTQ+ community. He called the 2007 winner Marija Šerifović (who would later come out as lesbian) 'ugly' and after Conchita Wurst won in 2014, he called the drag queen a 'freakshow' and decrying the contest as a 'farce'. In addition to his more or less homophobic remarks he also called Paul de Leeuw, Dutch spokesperson for the 2006 contest as 'eejit' (a.k.a. idiot), called the 2001 hosts Søren Pilmark and Natasja Crone Back, as "Doctor Death and the Tooth Fairy" and criticized other acts that finished right in front of the UK, when those nations were just sending better songs than what the UK was sending.
I think some of the blame should also be put on Johnny Logan. In 1999 the requirement to sing your song in your native language was no longer required which allowed Eastern European countries to sing in English and in the following year the live orchestra accompanying the acts was dropped. This caused Logan to criticise the direction of the contest as nothing more than a 'live karaoke show'.
It's quite sad what is happening with Ireland at Eurovision nowadays. From one of the strongest to one of the weakest countries at Eurovision. They need to try with something else, they need to send a song completely in Irish language because these sweet radio friendly songs didn't madc any favor to Ireland even Ryan O'Shaughnessy qualified in final beacuse of the two male dancers not because of his songs. They need to send a song like:
1.Anna Kearney - Banshee (JESC 2019)
2.Sophie Lennon - Solas (JESC 2022) or
3.Jessica McKean - Aisling (JESC 2023)'
if they want to qualify in final. I really like to see Ireland to be as good as they were in the 90's.
there just arent very artists in ireland who write songs in irish
How about pulling out altogether for a few years? I can't see what style of song would win it for them. They've had ballads and folk songs, but what next? It would have to be something unique.
I entered a song entirely in Irish with a big fiddle solo that I'm soooo proud of but they weren't interested unfortunately but I'd LOVE if anyone wanted to have a listen to "Tar Liom" on my channel! It's about a siren luring men to their watery grave and has a big operatic climax 🎶😁
terry wogan was also constantly calling marija stefanovic ugly during esc2007
I don't remember that but that's appalling... that's my favourite winner of the 2000s!
I'm a fairly new, but now devoted, Eurovision fan. So much so that I've made it a point to watch all (yes, all) of the previous contests. Many of the broadcasts available have the English commentary, and I agree with you that Terry Wogan was toxic. Some of what he said was lighthearted; much of it was inappropriate, unprofessional, dismissive, and mean-spirited. I know times were different then, and things you could get away with then you can't now. Still, I had times listening to him that I wished I could reach through time and punch him in the face - he was so offensive. Talk about not knowing how to read the room. Graham Norton can run close to the ragged edge, but he's generally not an asshole.
I feel like that about the german commentator, too. Although to a lesser extent. He wasn't as offensive. I watched it this year for the first time in years on the german broadcast instead of the Internet because I watched it with other people and I felt some comments were really unnessissaryly mean. He retired with this year's Eurovision so I guess we see where it's heading now.
In general, I watched the non-commented version here on youtube of all of the years back to 2010 and for me that is so much cleaner, less annoying and focused on the show. I prefer it that way.
I think one part of it is that when the UK and Germany have bad results, they can't really blame the broadcaster because that who is paying them! so they have to come up with other excuses
Itll be interesting to see in the future how Grahams comments age. Maybe there will be less tolerance for the meanness in the future. but generally I feel Graham is better, although he does still have his bitchy moments
if it makes you feel any better this is how ireland did in my personal rankinks in the "dark ages"😁
2014-21st
2015-11th
2016-24th
2017-39th
2018-40th
2019-2nd🥈
2020-1st🥇
2021-13th
2022-10th
2023-25th
we need you on the Slovenian jury voting for us 😂
Why can't RTÉ collaborate with an independent production company to produce a national final like they did with ShinAwil for _You're A Star?_
im not sure why they decided to break away from that model. Perhaps those types of shows werent bring in enough ratings? Or could be that the talent pool in Ireland wasnt big enough to sustain having a new season every year like the UK could
@@ESCTom I remember _You're A Star_ being event television. The whole country seemed to be talking about it. I think it ultimately failed because as popular as it was it was essentially a mixture of two formats: talent show and national final, and the national final part (the most important bit) felt tacked on at the very end almost as an afterthought. But it was extremely well produced.
Hi Tom totally agree in everything you say but will you be the eurosong this Friday as a guest or audience figure
ill be in the audience
@ESCTom hope to see you there ,my son is the fanatic and personally want go tabainn to go to eurovision but would listen to the boy band at home personally but that has no chance, thanks
I eternally remember the horse song in Father Ted. It was parody but hit some truth...? I am sure YLE is ultimately happy Käärijä did not win but came second... Although surely UMK aspires to aim high in the future.
"My Lovely horse"
The issues are basically the same as The UK but Ireland has to go through a semi final. If we had to go through a semi final over the last 10 years, Sam would of obviously qualified. I think we would of qualified in 2014 and 2017 but not the other years. I agree with you about Terry. Also the argument for UK bad result are due to Brexit falls flat on its face when you look at Ireland and Germany. It's almost a joke who's turn it is to be last. UK or Germany. Finally, so many countries have improved their game over the last 10 years so making the competition harder. For example, I'm old enough to remember Finland and Norway often in last place and The Netherlands failing to qualify for 9 years. Sorry this is a rather lengthy comment but I hope Ireland will start having more success. Over the last 50 years, Sweden, UK and Ireland have had the most successful European artists, in terms of chart/commercial success across the world. U2, Sinead, Westlife, ect. Germany has a population of approximately 15 times more than Ireland but doesn't have many artists with such international success. Good luck Ireland
yea great comment, i should have really emphasized in this how much NEtherlands and Finland are two great examples of how you cant turn things around quite quickly. As ive mentioned it in other videos, but it would have been really pertinent to mention it here
All the best to Ireland in Eurovision!!!
Sorry to disappoint, I don't really have an opinion but I still watched the video eagerly.
One thing that Ireland could perhaps try is pushing hard on the ethnic heritage.
No matter which genre: rock, pop, fusion or even rap (please, spare me the rap), the song should go for a distinct traditional Irish sound. It needn't be in Irish, especially if the author is aiming at European markets, but it should be instantly recognisable as Irish.
I have no idea whether it will work or not, but it's worth the experiment.
well they did try that in 2013 and 2014 and it didnt work. tbh i think its a bit of a gimmick, and its more important how good the song is. if theres a good song with those elements, great. but if the appeal of the song is just those elements, it wont work