Nacrene I feel is cheating, because yes they used the same type and badge, but it's not meant to be a second town gym. It's in a completely different city with a completely different leader
To be fair Nimbasa’s new gym design made so much more sense for a model and I actually like walking the runway it was actually fun and you still had access to the other gym!
Griff Overbey Adding on your point, you still had to go through the roller coaster park and beat the trainers to progress to the runway, so in a way it’s still part of the gym
Hard disagree on nimbasa gym. The original was annoying to move through. The redesign on the other hand, while simple, matches Elesa's aesthetic and style much better and has an absolutely boppin club remix of the classic gym theme. Also, getting to the gym leader doesn't make me want to tear my hair out because I missed the coaster again.
@@pokepal148 i dont' remember it to be compulsory. that's written on the sign that the gym has been moved to the other building and you can go directly there.
So I have a few problems with this list. These are just my opinions but I feel like sharing. 1. I don't see the issue with the Veilstone gym. They're fighters, blackbelts, martial artists. It makes sense that they'd have punching bags, weights, lockers, boxing rings, and all of that. Also why does one gym having weightlifting equipment suddenly "modern?" Humans have known how to lift weights for quite some time now, and the Pokemon world isn't feudal Japan. 2. The gen 2 games also deserve some slack because they barely squeezed Kanto into the cartridge, and I personally think the straight line to Blue fits his personality more than Giovanni's gym. By the way, Jasmine's gym puzzle was getting to Amphy and getting his medicine, so there's absolutely no reason for you to do a story quest for the gym leader and then jump into another puzzle with another set of trainers to fight. 3. The Aspertia gym makes a lot of sense because it's your first gym and it's a trainer school, and each battle is supposed to teach you something about battling. Think of it from your character's perspective. They've never been a trainer before, so why should they be thrown up against a random puzzle before they even know barely more than the basics of battles? 4. Again, Dewford is a fighting type gym, so it's aesthetically more logical that they have exercise equipment. Makes a lot more sense than bumbling around in a dark maze waiting to get ambushed. I don't really much care about the temporarily lit rooms that you have to navigate though, so I can understand frustrations with that. 5. I don't understand your issue with this. The team behind these games try and do their best to theme gyms around the type and personality of the leader. That's why Brawly has a bunch of exercise equipment, he's energetic and a health nut. Blue's gym in gen 2 is bland and has no apparent type theme because he believes in his own power, and doesn't even have a set type to him at all. A roller coaster in an amusement park doesn't exactly scream "this is an electric gym with a model for the gym leader" to me. It was a nice touch that you had to go through the roller coaster place before going to Elesa, but having a runway makes a lot more sense given how her entire character is portrayed. 6. Gen 2 limitations blah blah barely fit Kanto into the game. Blaine's gym however was completely wrecked and he was devastated. Do you seriously think it's as easy as a snap of your fingers to build a new gym and new puzzle? Blaine standing in seafoam islands makes sense given that he literally has nowhere to host a gym. I'd say the gen 4 remakes made a bigger mistake because it's not even a puzzle. You have to talk to the right guy while standing in the right spot for him to move out of the way so you can continue. Plus seafoam islands is where Articuno traditionally resides. Why would you attempt to excavate a new gym right above a legendary pokemon? I agree about the let's go games at least. Overall this had the potential to just be a unique type of pokemon video, but I personally feel like you did a lot of stretching to make excuses for why all of these are bad. Your opinion of course, but to me it felt kinda cheap and sorta like a cop out.
I'd like to point out something with point 4. Fighting type is usually based around martial arts type stuff, so if you think about it getting attacked from the dark makes sense, since most see martial arts as self defense, hence why you are attacked from an unexpected place and have to defend yourself.
@@Ko_Kasumi but wouldnt that be a little more fitting for a dark type gym? Self defense doesnt quite scream "sudden attack outta nowhere" like dark would.
@@frootloopthechatot9766 Most dark types tend to be more tricky than blunt attacks from the dark, so I feel that self defense makes more sense to me, but I can see your point
@@Ko_Kasumi I can see where you're coming from but the idea really does feel more like sneaky dark type ambush shenanigans. It just doesn't have the "feel" of a fighting type gym, in my opinion. There's a lot of good designs though so it's no surprise that there's a handful of bad ones, regardless of your opinion on any one of them.
Hey, just a guy who'd like to give his opinion I don't think it's fair to say that the Cinnabar and Nacrene redesigns are "bad" for not having much to offer, since it's obviously the point. Their design IS their lack of design; Blaire's Gym is empty to make it even more clear that he truly lost EVERYTHING (+hardware limitations for the Gen II games), and Cheren's Gym is simple because he is a newby that literally opened his Gym the day you got there, he didn't have time to design it how he wanted it to be
Huh, calling out Nimbasa City's gym for being a runway is a bit mean, I think. The gym is a complete model show, you walk up the catwalk battling trainers, complete with great music, laser show, and an amazed audience. Liked it very much.
While I agree with the general complaints, I think Gen 2 Kanto gyms should be let off the hook a bit. They weren't sure if they were able to get all of Kanto into the game in the first place, so it makes sense that things like the gyms wouldn't have particularely well thought-out puzzles. My guess as to why they decided on Blaine's and Blue's gyms to be the ones to have empty rooms is because at least it made sense for those two, since in the timeframe the Gen 2 protagonist gets to Kanto, the gyms are still pretty new/unrenovated.
If they weren't sure if they were able to get all of Kanto into the game in the first place _why are there so many unused maps and stuff in the game_ ? Clearly their cartridge space wasn't really that limited, and thus this argument doesn't hold water. Just look at all this: tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver/Unused_Maps
@@Skawo Good point, though I was moreso referring to time constraints. To my knowledge, after Iwata helped them out, cartridge space shouldn't have been a problem. The game was already pushed back several times, so it wouldn't be surprising to me if they had to rush some stuff to get it out at all lol
@@Skawo Lack of storage space and time is what let to many unused assets for GSC. If it wasn't for Iwata for optimizing the game to a point of being able to add more areas, gen 2 Kanto wouldn't have been possible
Emperor you seem to forget the reason Kanto was so lackluster in gen 2 original games is because Game Freak almost managed to find space to fit a second region in their games so they couldn't make the entire Kanto, in the remakes they now had space so it's not a "mistake" it was hardware limitations of that time And for BW2... You still have to do the roller coaster in order to fight the Gym
Will there ever be a new Pokemon Ranger or Mystery Dungeon Game?? I just hear people saying the games have, since the very first, never really changed, it's always the same and we all know it, they say. But i say, what about the completly different games about Pokemon?
I'd also say that the criticism for Cheren's gym being bland is unfair because the story was that he JUST became the gym leader and your battle with him is the first battle he's had as a gym leader. I don't think it would make much sense if he gets an elaborate gym built when he just becomes a leader.
Plus, it was the first Gym, and the Badge was called the *Basic* Badge. Of course a Normal-type Gym with the Basic Badge would have a basic and unthemed design.
Also, I happen to like the concept of a gym in a trainer school. Consider the first gym as a tutorial of sorts and what better environment for a tutorial than a center of learning?
@@rickyo7061 yeah, i didn't really get that complaint in the context of it being gym 1, when Brock has been out here with just a small stroll and a couple trainers as his gym for over 2 decades and no one minds. I think it took gen 6 actually for them to finally break that tradition with gym 1.
B2W2 Nimbasa gym is functionally the same. They just add a flashier finale. Similarly, The Olivine gym is a straight line because you just had get through the light house to find Jasmine.
Yeah, but Ampharos probably isnt sick all the time, how do the others do. This could be just that steel is a new type so there wouldn't be many options anyway.
You have to remember that the Johto games had 16 gyms, which is something we have not seen otherwise. Also there is a intriguing tragedy with Blaine in Gen 2; as he faces the challenge of still maintaining being a gym leader even when is island (not just his home) is destroyed. It shows a sobering story of a man who is passionate about Pokemon battles and his role as a gym leader even though he has lost so much; his home, his gym and the honour that comes with both.
I have some opinions on your opinions. First of all, you need to remember that gyms tell a story. Although it was partially because of hardware limitations, Blaine's gym in gen 2 showed the player that he lost everything to the volcano, and he hasn't recovered from his losses. Elesa's gym truly fit her as a model. Yes it was a straight line, but it told the story of the player having to become a model in order to fight one (yes, I know this sounds ridiculous). Plus it made more sense, as a model should be on a catwalk, not in Cedar Point. And I think it's a bit unfair to call Cheren's gym a redesign of Lenora's. First of all, they are fought at different points in the game (although not very far from each other). Second off, they are completely different people. Lenora was likely a gym leader for years, and thus she has been able to stylize her gym to her liking, and Cheren literally just started, thus meaning he hasn't had much time to develop his gym. All in all, I personally believe that even the worst of gym ideas can still be great, as long as they are stylized and make sense to the leader.
Blaine's gym in let's go is actually amazing, imo. I literally love everything about it. It's fun, cute, and most of all different. I also really like Elesa's gym redesign, especially the music.
It makes sense that Aspertia's gym is so simple in design since it is in the "starter town". The first gym should not be too intimidating or challenging.
The real attraction to Nimbasa 2.0 is the idea that you're walking up a cat walk like a model while the music picks up different levels. It does what it wants to pretty well and it being a hallway actually makes sense unlike other hallway gyms.
Hah, yeah. And it's extra weird how they just use them to Mae their own lives harder instead of say, using them to get intruders like me out of their bases!
You know, despite the fact that X and Y's gym leaders were easy I thought the layout of each gym was cool. Especially, Viola's spider web and Grant's mountain. Since X and Y never got a sequel, I wonder how the gyms will be remade in the remakes.
I understand the 2nd gen cinnibar gym was lacking, but remember, they had to fit two whole regions with the limited space they had for the game boy, so I'm not surprised it was poor, as they had 17 other gyms with 17 other gym leaders, the elite four, two regions, and a final boss. But I do love your vids so keep them coming
I totally agree with you about Maylene and Brawly's gym but not for the others. I don't necessary think that gyms always require weird puzzles to be great. Sometimes a straight corrider is more emphatic. When I was a kid and entered the Olivine gym I though "wow this girl must be hard, no one's here, she's just waiting for me, no messing around". I also love Elesa's gym redesign: it suits more her personality and style. It connects better with her dialogue at the end, about stars shining, beauty and friendship. The idea that all her fans applauding you on the catwalk is great.
@@Torinna_ "Worse" is a relative term. Therefore, when drawing comparisons between multiple objects that are classified as "good", the "worst" of that bunch is still "good".
9:34 I'm pretty sure you actually HAVE to do the roller coaster before you can challenge the gym. So it's really just a Olivine thing where the gym trainers are elsewhere than the dedicated 'gym'. Plus, the runway has AMAZING music!
The Good part of Nimbasa Gym Redesign. The Music. It takes the same note from BW Victory Road gate. The more you complete the requirement the better the music gets. And the payoff is great
Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion, but I actually really like the redesign to Elesa’s gym in B2W2. It made sense for a model to have a runway-style gym, and the music in my opinion was fantastic. I prefer it over BW, where I hated to wait for a car to come back every time I battled a trainer. Maybe it’s just me, but I think a flashy gym is more enjoyable than a tedious gym.
Morag Tong assassin in defence of that, the patrat might have been the child of his watchog so he’s a terrible Pokémon trainer. But it makes sense being an early gym tied with the school that he would steamroll children until they spent a year grinding up to level 40.
The Unova electric gym. Let’s go from rollercoasters to a literal straight line. The red carpet theme makes more sense for Elesa being a model, but it’s so basic compared to her first. Black and White 2 did some really weird stuff with the new gyms, but at least it had a story that lived up to the first. I figured it would show up in the video
I personally didn't feel like the roller coasters really made sense for the electric gym. They had big neon lights and some of them went sorta fast sometimes. When I left I wasn't left in awe about how electric it felt, more that I was bored with it before I even started. I at least felt like the gym in BW2 was fitting to the character.
So, I think this was covered as Unova problems but what happened when these gyms closed and moved? Are Trio Badges still valid or do the trainers wanting to challenge the E4 have to go and get the new ones?
I also agree, as with DP's Gym layout, I had more fun in that one compared to Platinum's, it is like a scavenger hunt, and when I was a little kid, I absolutely love scavenger hunts, so it had exicited me to find each of the trainers there
Those gyms were actually cool redesigns in my opinion: - HGSS Viridian - it was not as bad as you made it look, - ORAS Dewford - I agree only with the fact that after walking through one part and fighting the trainer, parts should stay lighted up, - BW2 Nimbasa - you still can access Roller Coasters, and new design was cooler and made more sense. - Cinnabar - it made sense considering Volcano eruption and GSC not being able to fit all the locations. And HGSS version gave it justice. LGPE on the other hand gave fun twist. Also Olivine gym puzzle pretty much was done in Lighthouse, and it also got extremely good improvements in the remakes. And Cheren's gym was not that bad - the fact it is one of the hardest gyms in the history of Pokemon, makes up for it. I would however add some PokeSchool test, similar to Trio Badge Elemental Triplets challenge. But maybe with status conditions? And some other harder type advantages. Like - what types Bug is resistant to?
Gen 3 Dewford: Such a good concept that it got re-used in the Battle Frontier. Gen 6 Dewford: Well, let's just say we don't have a Battle Frontier anymore. Oh, and the gym is kinda meh as well.
I yearn for true gender equality. I have no patience for one who talks about female privilege when it suits them and then complains about someone "not being a man" when it's convenient!
I can kind of understand your point on Nimbasa, but I loved it for the fact that for what it gave up in complexity and interactivity, it made up for in sheer style, which if you know anything about my profile identity, is something I really appreciate.
Nimbasa gym was terrible, your unselling how boring the whole gimmick was. It just inflated the time spent in it with waiting-riding a pointless cart-unavoidable fight. And losing to the gym leader doubles that frustrating as now trainers don’t exist, it’s just a big pile of time I wish I could skip.
I actually like the novelty of Viridian Gym in GSC. It's cool that it's made out of N&B Blocks (Nintendo's Lego knock-off from the 60s) and it makes sense that Blue is so confident he doesn't think he needs any gym trainers.
For Nimbasa city what they should've done is that after you do the roller coaster things and stuff and the lady at the end should instead say that the gym leader Elisa is busy at the fashion show and you have to go watch the show and go on the runway or something to talk to Elisa to battle her back at the gym
Blaine's gym in LGPE is funny. It should've been harder, but the hamminess of it fit Blaine's character. (I miss Misty's old gym, but the new anime design is growing on me.)
Still sorta bugs me how the normal type gym in black 2 and white 2 basically like the pewter gym in how easy it is to literally bypass the other trainers to get to the gym leader which if I remember right I actually did in all of those respective games and the cinnabar gym was WAY to easy
Great vid! I do disagree on the last one both "redesigns" were interesting or charming in let's go. As for Blaine in the cave I mean come on man his friends and family might be dead and his home destroyed by a natural disaster. Dude just wants to chill in a cave for a while and grieve
Plus I'd imagine it isn't that easy to just whip up a new gym and puzzle. I don't even think players were given a time frame as to when the volcano erupted. It could've literally happened a month before you started your journey.
I liked the old ecruteak gym. If you had a further distance to cover it would be annoying, but it only took a couple mins of trial and error. Plus the memory of one kid in my class who never realized that the floor was invisible and was a solvable puzzle. He thought there was something he needed to unlock, and just never beat ecruteak. He had trained his pokes all the way to 60 before I came along and told him.
Something fun to note about Diamond and Pearl's take on the Veilstone Gym is that it used a Mind over Matter mindset for it. You use your head and the rest falls into place. As for Cinnabar in Gen 2, that was literally because of hardware limitations. It's also why the Safari Zone is missing in that generation. The Gen 2 remakes addressed those issues in a way that would be faithful to the games they were remaking, while still giving the originally planned content its time to shine.
I agree that the newer design for the Veilstone gym was a bit of a weird choice given it's just an aesthetic flip from the previous one. And yeah, the spin tile gimmick is ridiculous, it's something you have to use lightly. While I do agree that the Nacrene version was better, I do like how Gen 5 maintained a different design for each gym building. And yeah, the flash gimmick for the maze in Dewford was actually really fun to learn. The actual gym in the gym is kinda lame because it's not a real maze anymore.
As someone who didn’t really care for the original Veilstone aesthetic and is a boxer irl, I loved the redesign. The original was good honestly, but the fighters and boxing rings just made more sense to me
Blaine's gym is why we need full fledged towns like the BIG maps you can find that some fans made of routes... if er had a giant town,the quest to reach Blaine's gym could be a town wide trivia puzzle ending in the hotspeing door from the anime. Given the ability of councils now,they have no excuse for the standard town size they've continued using.
I especially hated Blaine in Let's Go because its extended cutscene nature means you can't even stop to heal between battles. I always fight all the Gym Trainers before a Gym Leader (since you can't fight them afterwards, and their experience would be lost), so I had to get every question wrong and go through a gauntlet of five trainers (including Blaine), and I had a ton of bad luck with getting burned and hit critically. It was far more frustrating that it should've been, especially considering I personally never use items in battle.
I wish there was a beginner mode and veteran/normal mode on the title screen so everyone could have fun and learn. Now it just gets boring and you CAN’T skip the Pokeball tutorial
Real talk! I never played Black and White and when a friend literally gave me Black 2 and I got there -I- assumed the gym was that building! While the new one fits her character the only thing I liked about it was the screen flashing in the background. And while it was nice for her to escort you out I felt more like I was being paraded around as one of the other girls than the leading lady or even equal to Elesa. Even as a tomboy myself she's one of my favorite gym leaders. I'm an electric type trainer that loves the contests so I felt like I had met the character I could relate to most but I think I would have loved her gym more if it was a theme park with some flashy ads for her shows.
To be fair, I'd take a game show over a long, linear hallway any day. I would agree with you on Cinnabar Gym in Let's Go if the original Gen 1 version had multiple routes, but as it is you're basically choosing between a cutscene with interactive dialog and a linear hallway with interactive dialog. And since the cutscene isn't monotonous like the linear hallway is... ...you can probably see where I'm going with this.
I got stuck on the Gym puzzle in Omega Ruby. I thought you had to use the conveyor belts to get across. It was my first time playing a Pokémon game, but I was 16 years old at the time.
the only real upside to the nimbasa gym remake is that we got a new just as attractive design for Elesa. I honestly have a very difficult time deciding which version i like better, I like the blonde look she has, but i also like the outfit she has in the remake.
I have a Unpopular opinion. I really don't like Gym Leaders in newer games because it's overused, boring and it gets stale really fast. I'm so glad that the Gen 7 games tried something different rather than rehashing the same old Gym Leader concept from previous games.
Cinnabar I was ok with. It had a story behind it, you feel like the region has changed since you left. And if you were getting badge 15 in the second game in the franchise, I’m not sure if asking trivia questions means as much
Be respectful to Gen 2 Blaine, he lost almost everything 😂
maybe the trainers on his gym might have been incinerated in the eruption... Gen 2 blaine just wanted some time alone :'v
All I have to say is...maybe he should've taken the volcano insurance salesman seriously xD
🤣 😆
Blaine: WELL I'M HOMELESS NOW,
BETTER HAVE A BURN HEAL!
I hope he doesn’t have guilt to burn down his new gym assistant now.
Nacrene I feel is cheating, because yes they used the same type and badge, but it's not meant to be a second town gym. It's in a completely different city with a completely different leader
To be fair Nimbasa’s new gym design made so much more sense for a model and I actually like walking the runway it was actually fun and you still had access to the other gym!
Well you still had to clear the old one story-wise. Bonus to that was easy hp/pp recovery as you didnt have to navigate trains.
THE MUSICCCCCCCCCC
@@Missingno_Miner GIMME WHAT I NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-E-E-E-E-E-E-
Griff Overbey Adding on your point, you still had to go through the roller coaster park and beat the trainers to progress to the runway, so in a way it’s still part of the gym
Plus the full portrait sprite on the screen behind her was great
Hard disagree on nimbasa gym. The original was annoying to move through. The redesign on the other hand, while simple, matches Elesa's aesthetic and style much better and has an absolutely boppin club remix of the classic gym theme. Also, getting to the gym leader doesn't make me want to tear my hair out because I missed the coaster again.
totally agree with you.
I honestly perfer the roller coaster.....
except for the music
Sadly you still have to do the roller coaster
@@pokepal148 i dont' remember it to be compulsory. that's written on the sign that the gym has been moved to the other building and you can go directly there.
I don't like how they want you to do the roller coaster then go to the runway
So I have a few problems with this list. These are just my opinions but I feel like sharing.
1. I don't see the issue with the Veilstone gym. They're fighters, blackbelts, martial artists. It makes sense that they'd have punching bags, weights, lockers, boxing rings, and all of that. Also why does one gym having weightlifting equipment suddenly "modern?" Humans have known how to lift weights for quite some time now, and the Pokemon world isn't feudal Japan.
2. The gen 2 games also deserve some slack because they barely squeezed Kanto into the cartridge, and I personally think the straight line to Blue fits his personality more than Giovanni's gym. By the way, Jasmine's gym puzzle was getting to Amphy and getting his medicine, so there's absolutely no reason for you to do a story quest for the gym leader and then jump into another puzzle with another set of trainers to fight.
3. The Aspertia gym makes a lot of sense because it's your first gym and it's a trainer school, and each battle is supposed to teach you something about battling. Think of it from your character's perspective. They've never been a trainer before, so why should they be thrown up against a random puzzle before they even know barely more than the basics of battles?
4. Again, Dewford is a fighting type gym, so it's aesthetically more logical that they have exercise equipment. Makes a lot more sense than bumbling around in a dark maze waiting to get ambushed. I don't really much care about the temporarily lit rooms that you have to navigate though, so I can understand frustrations with that.
5. I don't understand your issue with this. The team behind these games try and do their best to theme gyms around the type and personality of the leader. That's why Brawly has a bunch of exercise equipment, he's energetic and a health nut. Blue's gym in gen 2 is bland and has no apparent type theme because he believes in his own power, and doesn't even have a set type to him at all. A roller coaster in an amusement park doesn't exactly scream "this is an electric gym with a model for the gym leader" to me. It was a nice touch that you had to go through the roller coaster place before going to Elesa, but having a runway makes a lot more sense given how her entire character is portrayed.
6. Gen 2 limitations blah blah barely fit Kanto into the game. Blaine's gym however was completely wrecked and he was devastated. Do you seriously think it's as easy as a snap of your fingers to build a new gym and new puzzle? Blaine standing in seafoam islands makes sense given that he literally has nowhere to host a gym. I'd say the gen 4 remakes made a bigger mistake because it's not even a puzzle. You have to talk to the right guy while standing in the right spot for him to move out of the way so you can continue. Plus seafoam islands is where Articuno traditionally resides. Why would you attempt to excavate a new gym right above a legendary pokemon? I agree about the let's go games at least.
Overall this had the potential to just be a unique type of pokemon video, but I personally feel like you did a lot of stretching to make excuses for why all of these are bad. Your opinion of course, but to me it felt kinda cheap and sorta like a cop out.
I'd like to point out something with point 4. Fighting type is usually based around martial arts type stuff, so if you think about it getting attacked from the dark makes sense, since most see martial arts as self defense, hence why you are attacked from an unexpected place and have to defend yourself.
@@Ko_Kasumi but wouldnt that be a little more fitting for a dark type gym? Self defense doesnt quite scream "sudden attack outta nowhere" like dark would.
@@frootloopthechatot9766 Most dark types tend to be more tricky than blunt attacks from the dark, so I feel that self defense makes more sense to me, but I can see your point
I agree with this! Besides Blaine's Let's Go gym, I actually loved how much personality it had.
@@Ko_Kasumi I can see where you're coming from but the idea really does feel more like sneaky dark type ambush shenanigans. It just doesn't have the "feel" of a fighting type gym, in my opinion. There's a lot of good designs though so it's no surprise that there's a handful of bad ones, regardless of your opinion on any one of them.
Hey, just a guy who'd like to give his opinion
I don't think it's fair to say that the Cinnabar and Nacrene redesigns are "bad" for not having much to offer, since it's obviously the point. Their design IS their lack of design; Blaire's Gym is empty to make it even more clear that he truly lost EVERYTHING (+hardware limitations for the Gen II games), and Cheren's Gym is simple because he is a newby that literally opened his Gym the day you got there, he didn't have time to design it how he wanted it to be
@CinnamonRoll Haru it's just like brock's gym and many other first gyms. They're usually not all that interms of lay out
And Cheren's gym atleast is a school with good back ground layout
Huh, calling out Nimbasa City's gym for being a runway is a bit mean, I think. The gym is a complete model show, you walk up the catwalk battling trainers, complete with great music, laser show, and an amazed audience. Liked it very much.
I like puzzles and all but you were on a fashion show with all the production , it was nice xD
Yes. I lover it!
@@feralking3000 it was the best linear gym. Also, one of my favorite gyms. I liked how they redesigned a lot of the gyms in that gen
Jora plus you can still hang out in the old gym
Jora I think it’s more that it wasn’t as good as the original then it is not a good gym
While I agree with the general complaints, I think Gen 2 Kanto gyms should be let off the hook a bit. They weren't sure if they were able to get all of Kanto into the game in the first place, so it makes sense that things like the gyms wouldn't have particularely well thought-out puzzles. My guess as to why they decided on Blaine's and Blue's gyms to be the ones to have empty rooms is because at least it made sense for those two, since in the timeframe the Gen 2 protagonist gets to Kanto, the gyms are still pretty new/unrenovated.
If they weren't sure if they were able to get all of Kanto into the game in the first place _why are there so many unused maps and stuff in the game_ ?
Clearly their cartridge space wasn't really that limited, and thus this argument doesn't hold water.
Just look at all this: tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver/Unused_Maps
@@Skawo Good point, though I was moreso referring to time constraints. To my knowledge, after Iwata helped them out, cartridge space shouldn't have been a problem. The game was already pushed back several times, so it wouldn't be surprising to me if they had to rush some stuff to get it out at all lol
@@Skawo Blaine:CUT ME SOME SLACK I LOST EVERYTHING
@@Missingno_Miner I'm not saying it in that sense. I think the Cinnabar gym redesign was kind of cool for that reason.
@@Skawo Lack of storage space and time is what let to many unused assets for GSC. If it wasn't for Iwata for optimizing the game to a point of being able to add more areas, gen 2 Kanto wouldn't have been possible
Emperor you seem to forget the reason Kanto was so lackluster in gen 2 original games is because Game Freak almost managed to find space to fit a second region in their games so they couldn't make the entire Kanto, in the remakes they now had space so it's not a "mistake" it was hardware limitations of that time
And for BW2... You still have to do the roller coaster in order to fight the Gym
Will there ever be a new Pokemon Ranger or Mystery Dungeon Game??
I just hear people saying the games have, since the very first, never really changed, it's always the same and we all know it, they say. But i say, what about the completly different games about Pokemon?
I don't think Nacrene and Aspertia Gyms should count as they are not the same Gyms. Only the badge is the same.
I'd also say that the criticism for Cheren's gym being bland is unfair because the story was that he JUST became the gym leader and your battle with him is the first battle he's had as a gym leader. I don't think it would make much sense if he gets an elaborate gym built when he just becomes a leader.
Plus, it was the first Gym, and the Badge was called the *Basic* Badge. Of course a Normal-type Gym with the Basic Badge would have a basic and unthemed design.
Also, I happen to like the concept of a gym in a trainer school. Consider the first gym as a tutorial of sorts and what better environment for a tutorial than a center of learning?
@@saphymew4627 not only that, but most of the first gyms that you go to are like that. They're usually not that elegant
@@rickyo7061 yeah, i didn't really get that complaint in the context of it being gym 1, when Brock has been out here with just a small stroll and a couple trainers as his gym for over 2 decades and no one minds. I think it took gen 6 actually for them to finally break that tradition with gym 1.
B2W2 Nimbasa gym is functionally the same. They just add a flashier finale. Similarly, The Olivine gym is a straight line because you just had get through the light house to find Jasmine.
Yeah, but Ampharos probably isnt sick all the time, how do the others do.
This could be just that steel is a new type so there wouldn't be many options anyway.
You have to remember that the Johto games had 16 gyms, which is something we have not seen otherwise.
Also there is a intriguing tragedy with Blaine in Gen 2; as he faces the challenge of still maintaining being a gym leader even when is island (not just his home) is destroyed. It shows a sobering story of a man who is passionate about Pokemon battles and his role as a gym leader even though he has lost so much; his home, his gym and the honour that comes with both.
This list is idiotic
Johto having 16 gyms in no way justifies them half-assing so many of them.
I have some opinions on your opinions. First of all, you need to remember that gyms tell a story. Although it was partially because of hardware limitations, Blaine's gym in gen 2 showed the player that he lost everything to the volcano, and he hasn't recovered from his losses. Elesa's gym truly fit her as a model. Yes it was a straight line, but it told the story of the player having to become a model in order to fight one (yes, I know this sounds ridiculous). Plus it made more sense, as a model should be on a catwalk, not in Cedar Point. And I think it's a bit unfair to call Cheren's gym a redesign of Lenora's. First of all, they are fought at different points in the game (although not very far from each other). Second off, they are completely different people. Lenora was likely a gym leader for years, and thus she has been able to stylize her gym to her liking, and Cheren literally just started, thus meaning he hasn't had much time to develop his gym.
All in all, I personally believe that even the worst of gym ideas can still be great, as long as they are stylized and make sense to the leader.
I think that the battle against your old rival should be just a battle,or if you think is too easy a extremely hard puzzle
I liked the redesign for the Ninbasa city gym
Blaine's gym in let's go is actually amazing, imo. I literally love everything about it. It's fun, cute, and most of all different. I also really like Elesa's gym redesign, especially the music.
Agree with everythimg you say. Blaine's lets go gym made the trivia gimmickmake more sense, and Elesa's gym in BW2 was atmospheric.
It makes sense that Aspertia's gym is so simple in design since it is in the "starter town". The first gym should not be too intimidating or challenging.
Exactly
The real attraction to Nimbasa 2.0 is the idea that you're walking up a cat walk like a model while the music picks up different levels. It does what it wants to pretty well and it being a hallway actually makes sense unlike other hallway gyms.
I can't stand how Team Rocket cornered the market on spin and warp tiles! They have them, and by God they are going to use them!
Hah, yeah. And it's extra weird how they just use them to Mae their own lives harder instead of say, using them to get intruders like me out of their bases!
@@emperorcubone 🤣
You know, despite the fact that X and Y's gym leaders were easy I thought the layout of each gym was cool. Especially, Viola's spider web and Grant's mountain. Since X and Y never got a sequel, I wonder how the gyms will be remade in the remakes.
My only problem with Grant's was that it was too slow; it took forever to climb around all those walls...
@@emperorcubone I do wish that they made the climbing mechanic faster
I understand the 2nd gen cinnibar gym was lacking, but remember, they had to fit two whole regions with the limited space they had for the game boy, so I'm not surprised it was poor, as they had 17 other gyms with 17 other gym leaders, the elite four, two regions, and a final boss. But I do love your vids so keep them coming
I totally agree with you about Maylene and Brawly's gym but not for the others. I don't necessary think that gyms always require weird puzzles to be great. Sometimes a straight corrider is more emphatic. When I was a kid and entered the Olivine gym I though "wow this girl must be hard, no one's here, she's just waiting for me, no messing around".
I also love Elesa's gym redesign: it suits more her personality and style. It connects better with her dialogue at the end, about stars shining, beauty and friendship. The idea that all her fans applauding you on the catwalk is great.
I was fine with the Let’s Go version of Blaine. It was different.
It is extra early in the morning and this kind of video is what I need! Great content 👍
I enjoy this stuff so much, there isn’t as much Pokémon related videos being made anymore as there was a while ago
Give it a couple months. If we were getting like the monthly updates like we did for S&M there'd be a lot more
Worst redesigns is Vermillion City. By not redesigning it.
Top of the memory I can’t even think of any that were bad. I remember all of them being good.
Heisted XE worst, not nesasarly bad
Lucas Xavier By worst he means bad I’m pretty sure bud
@@Torinna_ "Worse" is a relative term. Therefore, when drawing comparisons between multiple objects that are classified as "good", the "worst" of that bunch is still "good".
S4NoctiS Makes sense I guess.
One word that describes Elesa's Gym.
Atmospheric.
Giant wooden Tetris pieces? They're dojo screen doors, they make perfect sense in a fighting gym 🤦♂️
9:34 I'm pretty sure you actually HAVE to do the roller coaster before you can challenge the gym. So it's really just a Olivine thing where the gym trainers are elsewhere than the dedicated 'gym'. Plus, the runway has AMAZING music!
I thought the let's go cinnabar gym was good! It had all the elements of humor you would see on a Japanese television show.
The Good part of Nimbasa Gym Redesign. The Music. It takes the same note from BW Victory Road gate. The more you complete the requirement the better the music gets. And the payoff is great
When it hits you that chargerstone cave is basically the same as maylenes fighting gym
Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion, but I actually really like the redesign to Elesa’s gym in B2W2. It made sense for a model to have a runway-style gym, and the music in my opinion was fantastic. I prefer it over BW, where I hated to wait for a car to come back every time I battled a trainer. Maybe it’s just me, but I think a flashy gym is more enjoyable than a tedious gym.
Not an unpopular opinion
Great Top 6 series. Side Note: Smart to make it 6, because, you know... Pokémon.
Can we just talk about how cherren went from having a level 40+ watchog to having a level 7 patrat
Morag Tong assassin in defence of that, the patrat might have been the child of his watchog so he’s a terrible Pokémon trainer.
But it makes sense being an early gym tied with the school that he would steamroll children until they spent a year grinding up to level 40.
This is why I love this channel, the video ideas are unique, keep ok going with the great content.
With Cinnabar gym I'd answer the questions... then fight the trainer!
suprised brocks Gym wasnt in this list for the 1 time his mom made it into a water gym
The Unova electric gym. Let’s go from rollercoasters to a literal straight line. The red carpet theme makes more sense for Elesa being a model, but it’s so basic compared to her first. Black and White 2 did some really weird stuff with the new gyms, but at least it had a story that lived up to the first. I figured it would show up in the video
I personally didn't feel like the roller coasters really made sense for the electric gym. They had big neon lights and some of them went sorta fast sometimes. When I left I wasn't left in awe about how electric it felt, more that I was bored with it before I even started. I at least felt like the gym in BW2 was fitting to the character.
So, I think this was covered as Unova problems but what happened when these gyms closed and moved? Are Trio Badges still valid or do the trainers wanting to challenge the E4 have to go and get the new ones?
I think Eterna City in Platin ist one of the worst remakes.
In Diamond and Perl one had to find trainers in a maze. But in Platin ist was so easy
I also agree, as with DP's Gym layout, I had more fun in that one compared to Platinum's, it is like a scavenger hunt, and when I was a little kid, I absolutely love scavenger hunts, so it had exicited me to find each of the trainers there
I have to disagree, the eterna gym in diamond and pearl was extremely boring to me, but the platinum version is visually appealing
Those gyms were actually cool redesigns in my opinion:
- HGSS Viridian - it was not as bad as you made it look,
- ORAS Dewford - I agree only with the fact that after walking through one part and fighting the trainer, parts should stay lighted up,
- BW2 Nimbasa - you still can access Roller Coasters, and new design was cooler and made more sense.
- Cinnabar - it made sense considering Volcano eruption and GSC not being able to fit all the locations. And HGSS version gave it justice. LGPE on the other hand gave fun twist.
Also Olivine gym puzzle pretty much was done in Lighthouse, and it also got extremely good improvements in the remakes.
And Cheren's gym was not that bad - the fact it is one of the hardest gyms in the history of Pokemon, makes up for it. I would however add some PokeSchool test, similar to Trio Badge Elemental Triplets challenge. But maybe with status conditions? And some other harder type advantages. Like - what types Bug is resistant to?
Gen 3 Dewford: Such a good concept that it got re-used in the Battle Frontier.
Gen 6 Dewford: Well, let's just say we don't have a Battle Frontier anymore. Oh, and the gym is kinda meh as well.
Awesome piece of content. Keep up the great work! :))
Its not a gym but i didnt like the fact they replaced the battle frontier by the battle maison in oras
They didnt replace it, they straight out copied it from x ad y
battle maison. yes maison
3:35 Well to be fair the rival's job is to annoy you...
HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT THE CINNABAR GAME SHOW?!
Let’s hope with the Sinnoh Remakes, they make those gyms the best they’ve ever been
I hope! I'm personally most looking forward to what they could do with a new Canalave Gym...
@@emperorcubone i liked the canalave gym. not sure why. it just felt good watching the last elevator descend for so long
Wow, I just rewatched the best redesign video a few days ago and now this.
I yearn for true gender equality. I have no patience for one who talks about female privilege when it suits them and then complains about someone "not being a man" when it's convenient!
I can kind of understand your point on Nimbasa, but I loved it for the fact that for what it gave up in complexity and interactivity, it made up for in sheer style, which if you know anything about my profile identity, is something I really appreciate.
*calls out veilstone for the puzzle itself being slow*
*calls the slow af rollercoaster cars in nimbasa true to life*
i see you cubone
😭😭
No mention how Gold and Silver Viridian Gym is built out of LEGOs?
Lego is the plural of itself. TY.
Nimbasa gym was terrible, your unselling how boring the whole gimmick was.
It just inflated the time spent in it with waiting-riding a pointless cart-unavoidable fight.
And losing to the gym leader doubles that frustrating as now trainers don’t exist, it’s just a big pile of time I wish I could skip.
I always like your videos ☺ good job.
Imagine hating the runway
I did enjoy the runway walk after beating the Nimbasa gym in Black 2.
Sashay! Chanté!
Right! Haha. It was one of the best gym redesigns in that game. But the bw design of it was nice too
I actually like the novelty of Viridian Gym in GSC. It's cool that it's made out of N&B Blocks (Nintendo's Lego knock-off from the 60s) and it makes sense that Blue is so confident he doesn't think he needs any gym trainers.
3:20 Correction : The remakes of gen 4 were HG SS
He was talking ab the frlg gen 3 remakes of Kanto for that line
@@popnpets8022 which would be gen 3 soooo what;s your point ?
keero kamiya you thought he was talking ab hgss for that line and tried to correct him, but you just didn’t understand
@@popnpets8022 and you want me to care about this comment from a year ago I didn't even remember why ?
keero kamiya well you seem to be annoyed by my comment so you must care
Your reasons are confusing to me I feel. Like; do you want it to be a battlefield style or not? Also how is the runway a redesign
For Nimbasa city what they should've done is that after you do the roller coaster things and stuff and the lady at the end should instead say that the gym leader Elisa is busy at the fashion show and you have to go watch the show and go on the runway or something to talk to Elisa to battle her back at the gym
Great video as always dude
You can't really call the Aspertia Gym a redesign since it's not where the Nacrene Gym was
For the Nimbasa redesign i liked how it fit with Elesa being a model I just wish it had more a puzzle to it
Blaine's gym in LGPE is funny. It should've been harder, but the hamminess of it fit Blaine's character.
(I miss Misty's old gym, but the new anime design is growing on me.)
Your intro music always makes me feel like replaying XY because of the music lmao
Still sorta bugs me how the normal type gym in black 2 and white 2 basically like the pewter gym in how easy it is to literally bypass the other trainers to get to the gym leader which if I remember right I actually did in all of those respective games and the cinnabar gym was WAY to easy
Was that dragon quest music in the beginning?
Great vid! I do disagree on the last one both "redesigns" were interesting or charming in let's go. As for Blaine in the cave I mean come on man his friends and family might be dead and his home destroyed by a natural disaster. Dude just wants to chill in a cave for a while and grieve
Plus I'd imagine it isn't that easy to just whip up a new gym and puzzle. I don't even think players were given a time frame as to when the volcano erupted. It could've literally happened a month before you started your journey.
I liked the old ecruteak gym. If you had a further distance to cover it would be annoying, but it only took a couple mins of trial and error. Plus the memory of one kid in my class who never realized that the floor was invisible and was a solvable puzzle. He thought there was something he needed to unlock, and just never beat ecruteak. He had trained his pokes all the way to 60 before I came along and told him.
Something fun to note about Diamond and Pearl's take on the Veilstone Gym is that it used a Mind over Matter mindset for it. You use your head and the rest falls into place.
As for Cinnabar in Gen 2, that was literally because of hardware limitations. It's also why the Safari Zone is missing in that generation. The Gen 2 remakes addressed those issues in a way that would be faithful to the games they were remaking, while still giving the originally planned content its time to shine.
I agree that the newer design for the Veilstone gym was a bit of a weird choice given it's just an aesthetic flip from the previous one. And yeah, the spin tile gimmick is ridiculous, it's something you have to use lightly. While I do agree that the Nacrene version was better, I do like how Gen 5 maintained a different design for each gym building. And yeah, the flash gimmick for the maze in Dewford was actually really fun to learn. The actual gym in the gym is kinda lame because it's not a real maze anymore.
As someone who didn’t really care for the original Veilstone aesthetic and is a boxer irl, I loved the redesign. The original was good honestly, but the fighters and boxing rings just made more sense to me
Blaine's gym is why we need full fledged towns like the BIG maps you can find that some fans made of routes... if er had a giant town,the quest to reach Blaine's gym could be a town wide trivia puzzle ending in the hotspeing door from the anime. Given the ability of councils now,they have no excuse for the standard town size they've continued using.
Nimbasa is actually fine because you still have to go through the old gym first in order to get to the new one
I like the gyms that have more then one purpose like the fighting gyms and the electric gym it makes the world seem more alive
These do seem rather lackluster. But a couple of these make sense, lore-wise.
Oh man I am getting ALL the nostalgia from that Veilstone City theme
If you're going to keep making videos about your opinions, you need to stop speaking for other people and presenting your opinions as facts.
Matpat ni a nutchel
So true. I disagree with a lot of these.
Yeah it's only really in the title he presents them as facts
That one time team rocket disguised themselves as gym designers and screwed the Pewter city gym.
What are you talking about? Nimbasa, and Gen 7 Cinnabar Gyms are amazing!
I like the nimbasa gym too. Hers and burgh(whatever the bug gymleaders)are my favorite redesigns of that game
I especially hated Blaine in Let's Go because its extended cutscene nature means you can't even stop to heal between battles. I always fight all the Gym Trainers before a Gym Leader (since you can't fight them afterwards, and their experience would be lost), so I had to get every question wrong and go through a gauntlet of five trainers (including Blaine), and I had a ton of bad luck with getting burned and hit critically. It was far more frustrating that it should've been, especially considering I personally never use items in battle.
I was stuck on Maylenes gym in Platinum for over a year. I’m not joking.
Khaotic Kitten man, that could never happen these days even as a child. Internet is fast enough and accessible enough to give you the solution.
You use Powerpoint to edit your videos, correct?
I wish there was a beginner mode and veteran/normal mode on the title screen so everyone could have fun and learn. Now it just gets boring and you CAN’T skip the Pokeball tutorial
I liked Elesa's new gym. But I also just love the pop/model concept.
Ooo within the first hour of release 😄
Real talk! I never played Black and White and when a friend literally gave me Black 2 and I got there -I- assumed the gym was that building! While the new one fits her character the only thing I liked about it was the screen flashing in the background. And while it was nice for her to escort you out I felt more like I was being paraded around as one of the other girls than the leading lady or even equal to Elesa. Even as a tomboy myself she's one of my favorite gym leaders. I'm an electric type trainer that loves the contests so I felt like I had met the character I could relate to most but I think I would have loved her gym more if it was a theme park with some flashy ads for her shows.
Cinnabar Gym in Let's Go works because Blaine is known to be the "Hotheaded Quiz Master"... Game show just fits!
To be fair, I'd take a game show over a long, linear hallway any day. I would agree with you on Cinnabar Gym in Let's Go if the original Gen 1 version had multiple routes, but as it is you're basically choosing between a cutscene with interactive dialog and a linear hallway with interactive dialog. And since the cutscene isn't monotonous like the linear hallway is... ...you can probably see where I'm going with this.
I got stuck on the Gym puzzle in Omega Ruby. I thought you had to use the conveyor belts to get across. It was my first time playing a Pokémon game, but I was 16 years old at the time.
Blaine lost everything in the eruption and Cheren literally opened his gym that day. He didn't have time to set it up
the only real upside to the nimbasa gym remake is that we got a new just as attractive design for Elesa. I honestly have a very difficult time deciding which version i like better, I like the blonde look she has, but i also like the outfit she has in the remake.
i agree with veilstone, i actually forgot about platinum’s gym since D/P’s is so good
I have a Unpopular opinion.
I really don't like Gym Leaders in newer games because it's overused, boring and it gets stale really fast. I'm so glad that the Gen 7 games tried something different rather than rehashing the same old Gym Leader concept from previous games.
Thoughts on a best/worst designs for the Pokeball Animations?
This channel has so much good content, love it!
Cinnabar I was ok with. It had a story behind it, you feel like the region has changed since you left.
And if you were getting badge 15 in the second game in the franchise, I’m not sure if asking trivia questions means as much
are those tires? i thought they were weights, nother great vid ty
They are weights. Tires wouldn't break like that. And how would tires even make sense?
Did he get a new microphone?