What I see here isn't that Pike is angry at Kirk for breaking a major rule. If Kirk had been honest in his report, had described his reasons, I'm willing to bet he would have received a reprimand at the very worst, likely not even that. However, he also LIED on his official logs, falsifying things. Thats not what a captain does. A captain takes responsibility. Kirk wasn't acting like a captain here.
"The First Duty of every Starfleet Officer is to the truth! Whether it's scientific truth, or historical truth, or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based. Now if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform."
I think you are right. He's not angry at Kirk for lying. That was just a detail that was easily overcome...I think Admiral Pike said it best...he doesn't respect the chair. At all. He doesn't know yet what it really means to be Captain of the Enterprise and take seriously that responsibility of putting the lives of his ship and crew before his own. It feels like just a game to him. That's why his sacrifice at the end of the movie (while it DID echo Spock's in Wrath of Khan) was so meaningful. It illustrated Kirk finally respecting his chair and putting the lives of his crew first.
CeltycSparrow That is one way to look at it. But it is Kirk's job to command. Sacrificing himself means the ship does not have a captain in a critical situation. And he is not even qualified to do so, had the repair been more complicated than just kicking the antimatter reactor, they would have been screwed.
I am so in love with the way that Bruce Greenwood and Chris Pine act together. They play this scene (and others) so amazingly. Kirk's immaturity and the sucker-punch of consequence is portrayed so well against Pike's paternal discipline and disappointment.
Pike was the first real guiding force Kirk had in his life. His stepdad was a piece of crap, as evidenced in the first scene with see of Kirk stealing the car because his brother George pretty much got kicked out of the house. And yet the stepdad only worries about the car. Unfortunately, that was what made this Kirk disregard the rules more than original Kirk, and hence end up in this situation. It wasn't the prime directive violation that lost him the captaincy. It was falsifying the report and disregarding the chain of command. Pike did Kirk a favor by not dancing around it. He told Kirk exactly where he went wrong, and then later fought to give Kirk one more chance. It was the wakeup call Kirk needed, and it did get him in the right attitude.
@@samsonguy10k I am with Kirk, too on this, at least in principal. Pike didn't see alternate Kirk, he saw *this* Kirk, and *this* Kirk was always exactly what he seemed. A guy that will do what it takes to accomplish the mission. He falsified the report because he didn't want Spock to get in trouble. It wasn't even for himself. That said, it was a stupid case in which to falsify a report. There is a lot more mouths he has to worry about than just the 2 in the room, and with a story like that, crewmembers were going to talk. It was always going to get out. If you falsify a report, it better not be a situation with many witnesses, and there were many, many, many, many of them.
Blah blah. Kirk shoud've said "fuck you name another Captain better than me. fucking 0 I saved the PLANET from a future invader that everyone else DIED fighting." At this point Kirk should be a hero. And he saved his officers life. End of story. Nobody else would've done different.
I think Pike is especially upset because, deep down, he knows that giving an unseasoned Academy grad the helm of the fleets flagship was an enormous gamble. And now he's being made to experience the consequence of that gamble not panning out the way he'd hoped. He knows he shares a certain measure of responsibility, and it angers him.
What makes THIS particular scene even more heartfelt is at the end when Admiral Marcus was going to shoot down the Enterprise and Kirk turned around and faced his crew and apologized for putting them in the situation. He took heed to the words Pike put into him here in this scene, but Pike couldn't see it, sadly
This is a really well written scene. Not just the dialog, and especially Pike's interpretation of Spock's lip, but also what the scene did in the larger scope.
"Don't respect the chair" = when you sit in the chair, you can't be who you were when you entered the Academy, meaning that rebel, arrogant badass has to go. That's what I liked about Pike's argument, Kirk let his success go to his head thus he never "grew up" since the end of the 1st movie. Although always noble in his intentions, he doesn't want to accept the fact that there are bad consequences to his noble actions: something a captain has to face and accept if he wants to keep the respect and loyalty of his crew and his fellow captains.
I totally agree. Pike was absolutely right to chew Kirk out. I have to say that Bruce Greenwood was great in these movies. He did a wonderful job of portraying Pike as a father-figure to Kirk.
Steven Cohen Yeah, Bruce did very good job at the Pike as the father-figure Kirk needed since his real father wasn't there to teach him the responsibilities of a captain like the original Kirk did. It's sad to see him go.
This is one flaw in this timeline. After defeating Nero, it would’ve been better for Kirk to serve on other vessels before being promoted to Captain (should’ve been a montage). That said, this scene was great.
In the normal timeline, Kirk was an officer for years before he got the Enterprise. He was a junior officer on the U.S.S. Republic, then a lieutenant on the U.S.S. Farragut. After that, he rose quickly through the ranks and ended up captain of the Enterprise eight years after the incident with the cloud creature on the Farragut. There is a mention of him commanding a destroyer prior to the Enterprise, but it isn't cannon (the rest of the above is either mentioned or seen in The Original Series, therefore cannon). So in Prime Timeline, he learned the skills to one day captain a ship, and had time to learn to 'respect the chair' as Pike says. In the Abramsverse, they rushed it so fast, from cadet to captain, that Pike is right. He hasn't learned how to be a proper captain, hasn't learned to respect the rules or the people under his command. Kirk takes command of the Enterprise Prime Timeline: 2265 Abramsverse: 2258 He wasn't ready.
He wasn’t remotely ready, no. Kirk should’ve been given a medal and, after graduation, carted off to his choice of assignment in the fleet. That is it. After three or four years, depending on performance, make him XO of a ship. Then after a year or two, again depending on performance, give him a captaincy. The annoying thing is that at the end of the first film, they could’ve done exactly that. Show us a quick montage of Kirk in various assignments, getting promoted step by step, with a little “one year later”, “two years later”, etc. Shift to him being given command of the Enterprise, Admiral Pike asking if he has any ideas for his command crew, Kirk smirks. Fast forward to that last scene with them all on the Enterprise bridge, setting off on a new adventure. It wouldn’t have been difficult, but the writers thought that the audience were too damn stupid to understand that.
"In the Abramsverse, they rushed it so fast, from cadet to captain, that Pike is right. " That doesn't make any sense. Pike was the one who rushed him, so he can't be right. Pike should be committing seppuku for his dishonor instead of blaming the guy he advanced even though it was obvious he wasn't ready.
Probably the most tragic thing of this whole story: Kirk never got the chance to prove to Pike how he was indeed capable of being a proper starship captain. Pike passed away before Kirk could properly rectify things with him... For me, that sort of thing is the most tragic part of any story....fiction OR real life...
@@DP-ot6zf Be that as it may, there is nothing worse than irrevocably losing the ability to redeem yourself in the eyes of the one person, who saw greatness in you even when you didnt see it yourself... A demon like that never leaves you, for as long as you live. Perhaps I'm empathising too strongly.
Man if ONLY I could go into Spock mode when I'm getting the dress down from the GF. ME: I am a policy analyst, we embrace technicality. SHE: Are you giving ME attitude. ME: I am expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously, to which are you referring? SHE: Arrrrggghhhhh [tossing anything within reach at my direction] ME: Dodging office supplies.
I don't have a problem with them saving the planet. The problem is that kirk doesn't step up and admit he did something wrong (even more so, he doesn't even THINK he was wrong).
And I do believe that is the real problem Pike is having with Kirk here. If Kirk stepped up and stood by what he did, Pike would have stuck by him. Kirk lost his Captaincy because he tried to hide what was done. There were so many violations of the Prime Directive through every series that I have to wonder why they still called it prime by the time of the Dominion War. And yet every single Captain and Commander didn't lose their position. But when you throw every regulation out the window and show disregard for the chain of command, that is going to get you in hot water. It should be remembered that this Kirk has more disregard for the rules than original Kirk did, because he grew up without a dad and his stepdad was a piece of shit. This moment here was this Kirk's wake up call that he needs to either decide he wants to stay in Starfleet and pay more respect, or pack up. I think Kirk was ready to pack up when Pike caught back up with him after this meeting. Original Kirk had his ideas for following regulations, but he always respected the chain of command and looked at every option before considering anything drastic. However, I think he would have handled that situation on the planet just as young Kirk here did. But, he would have filed an honest report detailing everything he did. And more than likely he would have gotten a reminder about how it is important to let pre-warp races go their own way.
"You have any idea what a pain in the ass you are?" Wow. The Dean of my college once asked me that. I wonder if he and Pike went to the same administrator training or something.
Pike was right. He wasn't ready for the Chair. He should, at the very least, be required to server as an officer for at least a year and then an X.O. for another year before he is given the responsibility of commanding a Constitution class starship. This isn't some little frigate or troop carrier. It's a major front line asset. Such requires commanding officers who have some experience. In the Prime timeline, Kirk served on the Farragut for 10 or 11 years before he was offered command of a ship of his own. Starfleet saw enormous potential in him from the start, but realized that good C.O's need seasoning. You don't put a fresh Academy graduate in command of a major front line asset. Maybe a troop carrier or such, (the USN does) but even that's pushing it. No one should be in command until they have actually served under a commanding officer for at least half a year. And it should be at least 2 years required service before anyone is eligible for promotion to command of a major front line asset.
Yep, Kirk was barely cleared from being a cadet and straight in the captain's seat! That was always too sudden. It should have been as you said for the first movie.
I feel like somehow we can take into account how the Nero crisis may have deprived Starfleet of a large number of personnels that could otherwise occupy the seats that new cadets are too early to take. It’s actually my hc for why Kelvin Kirk was offered the chair so early on in his career. I’d like to think that it’s out of necessity as much as it is out of Pike’s will (plus how successfully Kirk had dealt with the Nero crisis)
"Pike was right. He wasn't ready for the Chair. " Which is it? Both can't be right. Pike was the one who had him promoted from CADET, and gave him the flagship of the federation.
@@isodoubIet not mutually exclusive. pike did give him the command and then after seeing kirks actions in period of "blind luck being used to justified playing god" made the call that kirk isn't ready for the chair. that is to say the pike that gave kirk the chair is not the same pike that told him he's not ready. the difference between the two is the benefit of hindsight for kirks actions thus a a different pike who does not believe the same things that caused him to give a fresh cadet a starship.
@@zill0678 Yeah it's mutually exclusive. It's obvious he wasn't ready, because he was a cadet and skipped 5 ranks and at least 10 years of service to get a promotion. It's like putting a wolf in charge of guarding the sheep and then complaining that the sheep got eaten -- no, the wolf did the only thing it could, it was your fault for putting him there to begin with.
This is without question my favourite scene in the movie. There so many great ones to choose from, and I seriously don't get the hate for this movie at all. There's a reason it got great critical reception. But the reason I love this scene so much is just because of how relatable it is from every characters point of view. We've all experienced moments where we don't always agree with the rules, but we can't just blindingly go off on our own personal Vendetta, otherwise it will start to affect those around you, but sometimes the same can be said for following the rules too closely, but more than that, the scene really shows how important honesty is and how much respect you gain from it. It's a scene with the perfect injection of great snappy dialogue, great performances, great direction, and mixes drama, humour, and yes trekkies, even ideas, together seamlessly. Not only that but whenever I watch this scene, my heart starts pounding, because the movie does such a great job of putting you in the mindset of Kirk, and the performances from Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, and Bruce Greenwood, were all superb. I've said it before and i'll say it again. Thank you J.J. Abrams :) Live long and prosper.
I've always liked Bruce Greenwood as Pike in the current continuity but his acting and the interplay of dialogue is really well done in this scene in particular and feels genuine. You can tell by his tone of voice that Pike is clearly disappointed and angry but obviously still cares a great deal for Kirk and is saddened by what must now be done disciplinarily. I think if Kirk came back and made an honest report, the punishment would not have been so severe. The problem was the ease and comfort with which he lied on his report and here to Pike's face, as well as Kirk's lack of and disregard for the honesty, dependability, and accountability the "chair" requires.
All 3 films are great character pieces. I just found the plot of the first film a bit undercooked and cliched (for Trek)...and i dont think bringing Khan into the 2nd film was a wise choice. Doing it the way they did was inevitably gonna end with audiences comparing it against tWoK...which was never gonna bode well. That bein said....i thoroughly enjoy watching all 3. Mostly because of the great character scenes like this one. No one can deny the casting was impeccable all around
From what I understand, the criticism stems mainly from the huge whitewashing of Khan - and what it seems to mean in Hollywood where they capitalise on an actor's success over something that makes more logical sense, like being faithful to an original story
This scene is the best scene that happened in Star Trek in the 21st century. Pike acts like an admiral who wishes to correct and educate his followers. Yet they fail to demonstrate leadership traits befitting to officers.
A civilization that has barely invented the wheel happens to see a starship rising out of their ocean right after Mr. Spock detonated a cold fusion device.....well when you put it that way Pike it does sound pretty bad ass
Am i the only one who thinks Kirk defended himself pretty piss-poorly in this bit? I mean "Sir, it was my judgement under the circumstances that whatever damage their civilization incurred, while regrettable, would have been highly preferable to annihilation.". There.
This Jim hasn't been tempered like he was in the other timeline. In the other timeline, he'd lost friends and had his own dad to make sure that he knew he'd done wrong. This one hasn't had that same tempering.
I agree. What made matters even worse for Kirk was the fact that he lied to Pike. In my opinion, the original series' Kirk would have immediately sent a report to Starfleet acknowledging that he had violated the Prime Directive and defended his actions. Spock would not have had to file a report because the original series' Kirk would have already done so.
Excellent point. As you mentioned earlier, he defended himself "piss-poorly". He was being arrogant, dishonest, and flippant toward Pike. Had he, not Spock, filed the report like he was supposed to and presented his case in a professional manner, the Admiralty might have let it go.
I think the lying was the key point and then the flippant never trust a Vulcan. By lying he knows he violated the Prime Directive but wanted to cover it up. However with all rules even the Prime Directive an honest laying out of the facts will usually give you a defense to build on. Remember, Kirk is the Captain in the chair at the time not some admiralty apparatchik in HQ so they can't cover all eventualities so some latitude is required. So again laying out what happened logically, corroborating Spock's log too that but for an unforeseen issue the whole saving species without being noticed was a good idea worth trying. Additionally, a prime directive that means allowing extinctions when you can prevent them seems callous. We aren't talking about giving them tech or whole new history lessons which would change their development. Extinction is no development. On that basis how do we know we aren't interfering in a temporal directive every time we save someone from death? Let's just let nature play out right? No. We save people because it's the right thing to do. Just like trying to save a species without ideally being spotted is the right thing to do. Then X happened and I didn't want to lose my first officer sir. It went wrong. Yes I'd do things differently. Id ensure equipment and back ups worked. I won't apologise for saving a species. We do it all on the time on Earth. So if that what Starfleet stands for, screw the academy I resign, Sir. If that's what you want. I'm following the Hippocratic oath, I won't follow a hypocritic oath.
I think every captain in the Star Trek Universe has gotten away with violating the Prime Directive. Is it just me, or is the Federation extremely ineffective when it comes to punishing its officers for Insubordination. It's been going on since the Search for Spock.
*well* before the Search for Spock. Spock stealing the Enterprise didn't violate Prime Directive (tho doubtless several fleet regs) but Kirk did it at least 3 or 4 times every season.
Great scene. Trying to picture Hunter and Shatner at each other. Also liked the integration of the motion picture uniforms. Never thought they'd be used again.
@@christopherg2347 No, it doesn’t. This is the same as giving Nog command of the Enterprise-E, or Wesley, or any other cadet. It just doesn’t happen in any other Trek. DS9 actually did a similar episode, where a cadet takes command of a Defiant-class ship, and he predictably falls apart, getting his ship destroyed and his entire crew killed. In that cadet’s case, he at least had no choice and acted in an emergency. In Kirk’s case, it’s moronic. No matter how naturally capable he may be, that is no substitute for experience. He needed time in the lower ranks, doing the hard work, learning, so that he could become a good captain later down the line. It’s atrocious writing in the ‘09 film. Or let me put it this way: for someone to wisely give orders, they must first learn how to obey orders.
There was a scene in the Babylon 5 tv show where the captain is asked whether its moral to interfere with the development of a species, to which the captain stated "Screw them"
I'm amazed Spock didn't get demoted too as he was the one who's plan it was to interfere, stated that he accepted responsibility for the events that resulted, and even showed a level of sass to Admiral Pike in this discussion.
Yes, but unlike his captain he owns up to it - he files it down and is prepared to take responsibility that technically falls to Kirk because Kirk is the commanding officer and therefore responsible for these major decisions. Plus, Pike probably feels bad for assigning him to Jim at this point...
Pike: That's your problem, you think you're infallible, you think you can't make a mistake. It's a pattern with you, you think the rules are for other people. Kirk: Some should be. Is it just me or does this sound like a conversation that Obi-Wan and Anakin would have? Relax, boys, I think Star Wars is in good hands.
I was really glad that they had this scene and consequences for Kirk in this timeline because it's true; he didn't learn the lessons Kirk did in the prime timeline to earn the chair and the responsibility that came from it. It was one of the biggest, rightful criticisms of the 2009 movie. In no way was Kirk supposed to be a Captain straight out of the Academy. In fact, he should have flunked out of the Academy as well.
JJ Abrams' Star-Trek films are near-masterful. Good plot, great dialogue, great acting, and, oh boy, the visual FX are terrific -- especially the Enterprise.
0:30 "Yeah, tell me more about this volcano. Data says it was highly volatile and if it were to erupt, it would wipe out the planet." "Sir, with all due respect, there's no guarantee Data will ever even be constructed in this timeline, and even if he were, it wouldn't be for many decades, so I wouldn't worry about it."
Bending the rules to the breaking point is how Kirk got to be Admiral but then after the events of ST3 Kirk was reduced in rank to Captain in ST4 by volatiling Starfleet regulations to save Spock. All charges but disobeying a superior officer where dismissed by saving earth from the destruction of the Probe. That is how Kirk became Captain again and was put in command of what he knew best, a starship.
This was one of the problems I had with Kirk in the Kelvin universe movies. They just jumped him straight from the academy to the captains chair. No way, even in an alternate universe, that would happen in Starfleet
Well I think there are reasonable grounds. In the fist movie he wasn't captain at first. It was Pike and then Spock. But Kirk gave good intel, and then used OG Spock advice to assume command. His actions saved Earth so that's a pretty big deal. Along with Pike I'm sure OG Spock gave his thoughts as well. So I think based on all of that they could see him doing it. The issue is more the flagship.
This is like the time when my highschool football coach and the star quarterback had got into a heated argument. The whole gym got quiet as the two of them wenr back and forth with each other.
Well, what did Pike expect promoting a Cadet to Captain and giving him the best ship in the fleet? TOS Kirk had years of experience; successes, mistakes. Everything that molded him into the decisive Captain we first saw. That being said, had this been Prime universe, Lieutenant Kirk would have talked his CO into a similar mission to save Nabiri. That was still the right call.
It kind of brings me out of my suspension of disbelief that they get cold fusion so wrong.The idea that they would freeze the volcano to stop it erupting and the whole 'super-blood' transfusion resurrection thing at the end had me similarly annoyed. Other than that its a good film though.
Published on November 9, 2013 After their mission to save a planet from a volcano, the actions taken by the captain have been noted by Spock to Star Fleet. This means only one thing for Kirk. A meeting with Christopher Pike... ST Into Darkness Clip
I find it cool that this movie had not one, but 2 actors that voiced Batman. Bruce Greenwood and Peter Weller. That aside it was a very enjoyable movie.
A problem I have with this film is that Kirk doesn’t learn this lesson, why the rules have to apply to him as well. He regains the Enterprise, has the old crew, defeats Khan’s plan & even gets to cheat death. Losing Pike is the nearest he gets to learning this lesson but I don’t think that’s enough.
'Do you know how many crew members i have lost sir? Not one!' Yes, which is why vs nero people were being flung into space by the holes in your ship caused by the missiles
As an old fan of the original Trek, Abrams Trek is just an imitation - fun to watch through once but I always enjoy going back and re-watching TOS and TNG, the real Trek!
That was Kirk's chance to show contrition. Explain properly. Then he might have had a chance. I think he'd still have lost the Enterprise a top line ship but they might have given him captaincy of a lower order ship and missions see if he'd learnt his lesson..
It was so awesome to see Spock get "spicy" .Spock: I'm experiencing multiple emotions. To which are you referring too? Pike was so pissed all he could say was Get out. 🤣
The problem I have with this.. (albeit I loved the movie), is that previous "accomplishments" like Saving The Earth in I, always seem to be forgotten. You would take away his ship, because of his violation of some rules, and yet- he broke some of those rules in the 1st movie, and saved the entire planet- and probably others. This does not make sense to me.
It was the lack of humility and the lying. If you get a job through deception. Even if you can later do that job, if it's found out your job is at risk. As trust is a cornerstone of everything else. That's why they throw the book at him. Yes the prime directive is important. However this wasn't a deliberate attempt to give the aliens tech or reveal themselves. This is all Kirk had to do. Captain's log stardate. Whilst routine surveying a planet we have noted the planet sustains life. Particularly plant life and some herd type creatures. Next entry. We have noted the planet has an extremely active and volatile volcanic system with one particularly close by. Further exploration has discovered an evolving bipedal indigenous species who are primitive in their development. However Science Officer Spock has noted that much like our own human development given time they may too evolve to becoming like us. Galactic explorers. Next entry. Crew and I have had a solemn day of soul searching. The volcano is becoming unstable and us likely to blow causing an extinction level event. My senior officers held a meeting to decide what to do. It got heated. Many fell back on the Prime Directive. If we hadn't been there,surveying the planet would we have known these people? No. Would they have survived no. Yet as others pointed out we are here, we are surveying and we think we have a solution. If we allow the volcano to start emitting the ash and plume will cover a shuttle to allow an officer to deploy a cold fusion device to stop the volcano. Additionally undercover officers can distract the locals with their own religion which we have studied and shows whilst primitive their growing attempts at reasoning and logic. So what should we do. Follow the prime directive blindly and leave these people to their fate. Can we in all good conscience do that? Knowing we have the means and potential to do something yet walk away and do nothing? Are lives less important than the words of the prime directive. Or is trying to save a species as stealthily as possible not in fact the spirit? We aren't beaming down making contact or giving them warp engines. We are simply trying to save a species from extinction. How many times have we tried to do that on Earth? Captain's log supplemental. I know how I as Captain wanted to do this but it's not just my decision even if it's my responsibility. We took a senior officer vote and we are going to try the plan. Mr Spock is confident he can pull it off. I have faith in him and my crew. If it works we will have clean conscience and an unsuspecting species survival on our hands. If we fail, we may have just broken the prime directive but a species will survive along with the other indigenous flora and fauna. No we can't tell what that might do development wise but by the time they are warp capable it will be legend I hope. Captain's log. We succeeded but almost at the cost of Mr Spock. Unwilling to sacrifice any lives theirs or ours I took the captain's decision to raise the ship to a point we could beam Mr Spock aboard before dying due to a transporter issue. We may have been spotted very briefly in this manoeuvre and I regret that this may have caused an issue in their timeline. I however stand by the fact they at least have a timeline and no one has died. I hope Starfleet command can see the moral dilemma we faced here however I accept there may be consequences. I hope my Frank account helps to get a fair hearing and any penalty is just. I do have some additional suggestions such as increased surveying tools from space so we don't have to risk parties being spotted or the Enterprise or other ships descending from orbit. Additionally I would request some sort of local beaming technology for wearers on hazardous missions. This would have ensured all objectives were met. However I reiterate the crew and I could not find it in ourselves to follow the prime directive at the cost of a sentient species, however primitive, blindly. End log.
I don't disagree with Kirk's decision to save the Niburuans (who knows, if they make it, and the Federation's still around in 10,000-20,000 years, they'll discover warp drive, and become a member planet), but he shouldn't have lied. Part of being right also means being able to defend your actions, to insist on a little to no punishment, and that maybe an exception to the Prime Directive to allow the Niburuans a chance to grow was the moral thing to do or similar future circumstances. After all, if Yellowstone were to go off, or if some idiot heads of state were beginning to butt their heads and start WW-III (like Kim Jong Un and our current idiot of a President), I'd want an advanced race to do the same. We can't learn from our mistakes if we die, after all. It's been said by conspiracy theorists (and supported by military officers) that UFOs have disabled our nukes, and that perhaps we can't even launch them if they decided to stop us, for example, and been speculated that Yellowstone won't go off, because they are keeping it from doing so. If our civilization ever gets to that point, then I would want us to act as good samaritans, and help other civilizations during their development, while also giving them the chance to grow on their own.
One problem with the PD in this case. While I can admit the Enterprise sighting is an issue, altering destiny is the very reason behind medical science and has been something humanity has strived for over the course of thousands of years. Saying the planet shouldn't have been saved because it was too primitive for intervention is like saying a a dying man shouldn't be saved if he doesn't know what's wrong with him
Kirk: You'd be so noble, Pointy, if you weren't also throwing me under the bus... _Miraculously, Spock actually looks pissed off._ Spock (no-one disses the ears) Pointy? Is that a derogatory reference to my - Pike: Gentlemen. I love how Spock is interrupted before he can say "ears".
"Get fucked" -some star fleet admiral to some indigenous people of some random planet that happened to luckily be observed during their cataclysmic event by a more than capable space faring interstellar coalition of races who could and did easily intervene on their almost complete annihilation. The sacrifice of losing a first officer compared to potentially lose an entire race is more than acceptable.
shit, this hit me like a rock. In real life, I was hired to improve the department and I get reprimanded for improving the process without “due process”. I also got the “You don’t respect the process”.. wtf..
"You are using blind luck to justify your playing god" - As I remember they dont follow up on this, but finally someone expressing this to a main character. Rules exist for a reason and especially in a series like this, that reason is the great danger the entire crew of an exploring star ship is in. Main characters have plot armor, so they always end up on top when they break any of these rules, but they arent supposed to know about this. They cant use plot armor as an excuse to disregard any danger. So in their eyes and everyone elses in that fictional universe they are relying on nothing but blind luck, which is a terrible trait in a leader who is responsible for the lives of so many people.
Of course, with all the experienced captains toasted by Nero, a sudden promotion for the Cadet who went above and beyond and saved the whole planet, might have been as much political (public relations) as it was practical..... Especially if said Captain and ship are out on what amounts to scientific scouting runs.
Welcome everyone picking this up through UA-cam's 2021 random push 7+ years later!
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The five year mission is over.
What I see here isn't that Pike is angry at Kirk for breaking a major rule. If Kirk had been honest in his report, had described his reasons, I'm willing to bet he would have received a reprimand at the very worst, likely not even that. However, he also LIED on his official logs, falsifying things. Thats not what a captain does. A captain takes responsibility. Kirk wasn't acting like a captain here.
"The First Duty of every Starfleet Officer is to the truth! Whether it's scientific truth, or historical truth, or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based. Now if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform."
Kirk never gave a damn about the prime directive anyhow!
+Byron Lee Not this Kirk. The Kirk of the Prime Time Line did, but then he wasn't thrust into the center seat right out of the academy.
I think you are right. He's not angry at Kirk for lying. That was just a detail that was easily overcome...I think Admiral Pike said it best...he doesn't respect the chair. At all. He doesn't know yet what it really means to be Captain of the Enterprise and take seriously that responsibility of putting the lives of his ship and crew before his own. It feels like just a game to him. That's why his sacrifice at the end of the movie (while it DID echo Spock's in Wrath of Khan) was so meaningful. It illustrated Kirk finally respecting his chair and putting the lives of his crew first.
CeltycSparrow
That is one way to look at it.
But it is Kirk's job to command. Sacrificing himself means the ship does not have a captain in a critical situation. And he is not even qualified to do so, had the repair been more complicated than just kicking the antimatter reactor, they would have been screwed.
"I'm experiencing multiple attitudes simultaneously. To which one are you referring to?"
Spock, your sass is showing! LOL!
I think he said, "expressing".
To which are you referring or which one are you referring to? Pick one.
I love that Spock is acting like the older sibling that rats out the younger one but still tries to defend him.
I am so in love with the way that Bruce Greenwood and Chris Pine act together. They play this scene (and others) so amazingly. Kirk's immaturity and the sucker-punch of consequence is portrayed so well against Pike's paternal discipline and disappointment.
Pike was the first real guiding force Kirk had in his life. His stepdad was a piece of crap, as evidenced in the first scene with see of Kirk stealing the car because his brother George pretty much got kicked out of the house. And yet the stepdad only worries about the car.
Unfortunately, that was what made this Kirk disregard the rules more than original Kirk, and hence end up in this situation. It wasn't the prime directive violation that lost him the captaincy. It was falsifying the report and disregarding the chain of command.
Pike did Kirk a favor by not dancing around it. He told Kirk exactly where he went wrong, and then later fought to give Kirk one more chance. It was the wakeup call Kirk needed, and it did get him in the right attitude.
@@samsonguy10k I am with Kirk, too on this, at least in principal. Pike didn't see alternate Kirk, he saw *this* Kirk, and *this* Kirk was always exactly what he seemed. A guy that will do what it takes to accomplish the mission. He falsified the report because he didn't want Spock to get in trouble. It wasn't even for himself.
That said, it was a stupid case in which to falsify a report. There is a lot more mouths he has to worry about than just the 2 in the room, and with a story like that, crewmembers were going to talk. It was always going to get out. If you falsify a report, it better not be a situation with many witnesses, and there were many, many, many, many of them.
Blah blah. Kirk shoud've said "fuck you name another Captain better than me. fucking 0 I saved the PLANET from a future invader that everyone else DIED fighting." At this point Kirk should be a hero. And he saved his officers life. End of story. Nobody else would've done different.
@@picallo1 Super,jetzt sitz ich im Zug und hab einen Lachkrampf. Dankeschön.
Dankeschön..
"What's the lesson to be Learned here?"
"Never trust a Vulcan."
😂😂😂😂
lol
It looks like not only Archer Families beagles made it into that time...
Especially one with pointed ears!
This and ,"Are you out of your Vulcan mind??" are the best lines to come out of these movies😂😂
Pike: "That's a technicality!"
Spock: "I am Vulcan, sir, we embrace technicality."
Pike: "You giving me attitude, Spock?"
Hahahahahahahaha
+聖凱徐 I am expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously, to which are you referring?
+Joseph Farah Get out
Pike can see through Spock's clever BS.
That was superb writing.
I think Pike is especially upset because, deep down, he knows that giving an unseasoned Academy grad the helm of the fleets flagship was an enormous gamble. And now he's being made to experience the consequence of that gamble not panning out the way he'd hoped. He knows he shares a certain measure of responsibility, and it angers him.
BEEP!
What makes THIS particular scene even more heartfelt is at the end when Admiral Marcus was going to shoot down the Enterprise and Kirk turned around and faced his crew and apologized for putting them in the situation. He took heed to the words Pike put into him here in this scene, but Pike couldn't see it, sadly
When he says
Right after a civilization thats *BARLEY INVENTED THE WHEEL SEES A STARSHIIP RISING OUT THEIR OCEAN*
I was like ooooooooooooh shiet
This is a really well written scene. Not just the dialog, and especially Pike's interpretation of Spock's lip, but also what the scene did in the larger scope.
Anybody else find it adorable when Kirk karate chops Spock twice at the beggining and Spock just keeps walking like he's nothing!
Its a guy thing
Adorable? Really? No.
@@retiredusvet4396 well what females find adorable in a guy is different than what men think so
"Don't respect the chair" = when you sit in the chair, you can't be who you were when you entered the Academy, meaning that rebel, arrogant badass has to go. That's what I liked about Pike's argument, Kirk let his success go to his head thus he never "grew up" since the end of the 1st movie. Although always noble in his intentions, he doesn't want to accept the fact that there are bad consequences to his noble actions: something a captain has to face and accept if he wants to keep the respect and loyalty of his crew and his fellow captains.
I totally agree. Pike was absolutely right to chew Kirk out.
I have to say that Bruce Greenwood was great in these movies. He did a wonderful job of portraying Pike as a father-figure to Kirk.
Steven Cohen Yeah, Bruce did very good job at the Pike as the father-figure Kirk needed since his real father wasn't there to teach him the responsibilities of a captain like the original Kirk did. It's sad to see him go.
Not quite the rebel badass stays if it can be molded right.
So why did Pike have him skip 20 years of service by promoting him from cadet to captain then
This is one flaw in this timeline. After defeating Nero, it would’ve been better for Kirk to serve on other vessels before being promoted to Captain (should’ve been a montage).
That said, this scene was great.
In the normal timeline, Kirk was an officer for years before he got the Enterprise. He was a junior officer on the U.S.S. Republic, then a lieutenant on the U.S.S. Farragut. After that, he rose quickly through the ranks and ended up captain of the Enterprise eight years after the incident with the cloud creature on the Farragut. There is a mention of him commanding a destroyer prior to the Enterprise, but it isn't cannon (the rest of the above is either mentioned or seen in The Original Series, therefore cannon).
So in Prime Timeline, he learned the skills to one day captain a ship, and had time to learn to 'respect the chair' as Pike says. In the Abramsverse, they rushed it so fast, from cadet to captain, that Pike is right. He hasn't learned how to be a proper captain, hasn't learned to respect the rules or the people under his command.
Kirk takes command of the Enterprise
Prime Timeline: 2265
Abramsverse: 2258
He wasn't ready.
He wasn’t remotely ready, no. Kirk should’ve been given a medal and, after graduation, carted off to his choice of assignment in the fleet. That is it. After three or four years, depending on performance, make him XO of a ship. Then after a year or two, again depending on performance, give him a captaincy.
The annoying thing is that at the end of the first film, they could’ve done exactly that. Show us a quick montage of Kirk in various assignments, getting promoted step by step, with a little “one year later”, “two years later”, etc. Shift to him being given command of the Enterprise, Admiral Pike asking if he has any ideas for his command crew, Kirk smirks. Fast forward to that last scene with them all on the Enterprise bridge, setting off on a new adventure. It wouldn’t have been difficult, but the writers thought that the audience were too damn stupid to understand that.
"In the Abramsverse, they rushed it so fast, from cadet to captain, that Pike is right. "
That doesn't make any sense. Pike was the one who rushed him, so he can't be right. Pike should be committing seppuku for his dishonor instead of blaming the guy he advanced even though it was obvious he wasn't ready.
@@isodoubIet Seppuku 😆😆😆
It's true but it's funny as well.
Probably the most tragic thing of this whole story:
Kirk never got the chance to prove to Pike how he was indeed capable of being a proper starship captain.
Pike passed away before Kirk could properly rectify things with him...
For me, that sort of thing is the most tragic part of any story....fiction OR real life...
But that's a big part of the story, Kirk's regret. Made the story better.
@@DP-ot6zf Be that as it may, there is nothing worse than irrevocably losing the ability to redeem yourself in the eyes of the one person, who saw greatness in you even when you didnt see it yourself...
A demon like that never leaves you, for as long as you live.
Perhaps I'm empathising too strongly.
at least Pike never ended up in the wheelchair. @@davecrupel2817
"I'm showing multiple attitudes." me af
That's also hot af lol
Man if ONLY I could go into Spock mode when I'm getting the dress down from the GF.
ME: I am a policy analyst, we embrace technicality.
SHE: Are you giving ME attitude.
ME: I am expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously, to which are you referring?
SHE: Arrrrggghhhhh [tossing anything within reach at my direction]
ME: Dodging office supplies.
"You giving me attitude, Spock?"
"I'm expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously, sir. To which are you referring?"
Ballistic Fingerprints best line ever
Ballistic Fingerprints sassy Spock is sassy :D
I don't have a problem with them saving the planet. The problem is that kirk doesn't step up and admit he did something wrong (even more so, he doesn't even THINK he was wrong).
Well, what can you say? Other then Kirks "I do not like to loose": ua-cam.com/video/b9dEI-Ru1CI/v-deo.html
And I do believe that is the real problem Pike is having with Kirk here. If Kirk stepped up and stood by what he did, Pike would have stuck by him. Kirk lost his Captaincy because he tried to hide what was done. There were so many violations of the Prime Directive through every series that I have to wonder why they still called it prime by the time of the Dominion War. And yet every single Captain and Commander didn't lose their position.
But when you throw every regulation out the window and show disregard for the chain of command, that is going to get you in hot water.
It should be remembered that this Kirk has more disregard for the rules than original Kirk did, because he grew up without a dad and his stepdad was a piece of shit. This moment here was this Kirk's wake up call that he needs to either decide he wants to stay in Starfleet and pay more respect, or pack up. I think Kirk was ready to pack up when Pike caught back up with him after this meeting.
Original Kirk had his ideas for following regulations, but he always respected the chain of command and looked at every option before considering anything drastic. However, I think he would have handled that situation on the planet just as young Kirk here did. But, he would have filed an honest report detailing everything he did. And more than likely he would have gotten a reminder about how it is important to let pre-warp races go their own way.
He wasn't
"You have any idea what a pain in the ass you are?" Wow. The Dean of my college once asked me that. I wonder if he and Pike went to the same administrator training or something.
+halleck3 Maybe he's one of Pike's ancestors. The film does take place in the early 2200s.
+TheStarToursTraveler Ha!
+halleck3 Probably an ancestor. It runs in the bloodline.
Shadowkey392
Good one!
Adolf Hitler it means you're really a pain in the ass.
Pike was right. He wasn't ready for the Chair. He should, at the very least, be required to server as an officer for at least a year and then an X.O. for another year before he is given the responsibility of commanding a Constitution class starship. This isn't some little frigate or troop carrier. It's a major front line asset. Such requires commanding officers who have some experience.
In the Prime timeline, Kirk served on the Farragut for 10 or 11 years before he was offered command of a ship of his own. Starfleet saw enormous potential in him from the start, but realized that good C.O's need seasoning. You don't put a fresh Academy graduate in command of a major front line asset. Maybe a troop carrier or such, (the USN does) but even that's pushing it. No one should be in command until they have actually served under a commanding officer for at least half a year. And it should be at least 2 years required service before anyone is eligible for promotion to command of a major front line asset.
Yep, Kirk was barely cleared from being a cadet and straight in the captain's seat! That was always too sudden. It should have been as you said for the first movie.
I feel like somehow we can take into account how the Nero crisis may have deprived Starfleet of a large number of personnels that could otherwise occupy the seats that new cadets are too early to take. It’s actually my hc for why Kelvin Kirk was offered the chair so early on in his career. I’d like to think that it’s out of necessity as much as it is out of Pike’s will (plus how successfully Kirk had dealt with the Nero crisis)
"Pike was right. He wasn't ready for the Chair. "
Which is it? Both can't be right. Pike was the one who had him promoted from CADET, and gave him the flagship of the federation.
@@isodoubIet not mutually exclusive. pike did give him the command and then after seeing kirks actions in period of "blind luck being used to justified playing god" made the call that kirk isn't ready for the chair. that is to say the pike that gave kirk the chair is not the same pike that told him he's not ready. the difference between the two is the benefit of hindsight for kirks actions thus a a different pike who does not believe the same things that caused him to give a fresh cadet a starship.
@@zill0678 Yeah it's mutually exclusive. It's obvious he wasn't ready, because he was a cadet and skipped 5 ranks and at least 10 years of service to get a promotion. It's like putting a wolf in charge of guarding the sheep and then complaining that the sheep got eaten -- no, the wolf did the only thing it could, it was your fault for putting him there to begin with.
“Multiple attitudes simultaneously.” I was weak with laughter in the movies when I first saw this movie
This is without question my favourite scene in the movie. There so many great ones to choose from, and I seriously don't get the hate for this movie at all. There's a reason it got great critical reception. But the reason I love this scene so much is just because of how relatable it is from every characters point of view. We've all experienced moments where we don't always agree with the rules, but we can't just blindingly go off on our own personal Vendetta, otherwise it will start to affect those around you, but sometimes the same can be said for following the rules too closely, but more than that, the scene really shows how important honesty is and how much respect you gain from it. It's a scene with the perfect injection of great snappy dialogue, great performances, great direction, and mixes drama, humour, and yes trekkies, even ideas, together seamlessly. Not only that but whenever I watch this scene, my heart starts pounding, because the movie does such a great job of putting you in the mindset of Kirk, and the performances from Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, and Bruce Greenwood, were all superb. I've said it before and i'll say it again. Thank you J.J. Abrams :) Live long and prosper.
I've always liked Bruce Greenwood as Pike in the current continuity but his acting and the interplay of dialogue is really well done in this scene in particular and feels genuine. You can tell by his tone of voice that Pike is clearly disappointed and angry but obviously still cares a great deal for Kirk and is saddened by what must now be done disciplinarily. I think if Kirk came back and made an honest report, the punishment would not have been so severe. The problem was the ease and comfort with which he lied on his report and here to Pike's face, as well as Kirk's lack of and disregard for the honesty, dependability, and accountability the "chair" requires.
All 3 films are great character pieces. I just found the plot of the first film a bit undercooked and cliched (for Trek)...and i dont think bringing Khan into the 2nd film was a wise choice. Doing it the way they did was inevitably gonna end with audiences comparing it against tWoK...which was never gonna bode well. That bein said....i thoroughly enjoy watching all 3. Mostly because of the great character scenes like this one. No one can deny the casting was impeccable all around
From what I understand, the criticism stems mainly from the huge whitewashing of Khan - and what it seems to mean in Hollywood where they capitalise on an actor's success over something that makes more logical sense, like being faithful to an original story
"Pointy? Is that a derogatory reference to..."
CONTEXT😂CONTEXT😂CONTEXT😂😂😂👌
This scene is the best scene that happened in Star Trek in the 21st century. Pike acts like an admiral who wishes to correct and educate his followers. Yet they fail to demonstrate leadership traits befitting to officers.
A civilization that has barely invented the wheel happens to see a starship rising out of their ocean right after Mr. Spock detonated a cold fusion device.....well when you put it that way Pike it does sound pretty bad ass
Never trust a Vulcan. Best line in the movie.
Every time I see the opening sequence to this scene, I fight back the growing urge to yell, "Kirk! Put your cover on, you unsat s***bird!"
Am i the only one who thinks Kirk defended himself pretty piss-poorly in this bit? I mean "Sir, it was my judgement under the circumstances that whatever damage their civilization incurred, while regrettable, would have been highly preferable to annihilation.". There.
This Jim hasn't been tempered like he was in the other timeline. In the other timeline, he'd lost friends and had his own dad to make sure that he knew he'd done wrong. This one hasn't had that same tempering.
I agree. What made matters even worse for Kirk was the fact that he lied to Pike. In my opinion, the original series' Kirk would have immediately sent a report to Starfleet acknowledging that he had violated the Prime Directive and defended his actions. Spock would not have had to file a report because the original series' Kirk would have already done so.
Excellent point. As you mentioned earlier, he defended himself "piss-poorly". He was being arrogant, dishonest, and flippant toward Pike. Had he, not Spock, filed the report like he was supposed to and presented his case in a professional manner, the Admiralty might have let it go.
Steven Cohen Point.
I think the lying was the key point and then the flippant never trust a Vulcan. By lying he knows he violated the Prime Directive but wanted to cover it up. However with all rules even the Prime Directive an honest laying out of the facts will usually give you a defense to build on. Remember, Kirk is the Captain in the chair at the time not some admiralty apparatchik in HQ so they can't cover all eventualities so some latitude is required. So again laying out what happened logically, corroborating Spock's log too that but for an unforeseen issue the whole saving species without being noticed was a good idea worth trying. Additionally, a prime directive that means allowing extinctions when you can prevent them seems callous. We aren't talking about giving them tech or whole new history lessons which would change their development. Extinction is no development. On that basis how do we know we aren't interfering in a temporal directive every time we save someone from death? Let's just let nature play out right? No. We save people because it's the right thing to do. Just like trying to save a species without ideally being spotted is the right thing to do. Then X happened and I didn't want to lose my first officer sir. It went wrong. Yes I'd do things differently. Id ensure equipment and back ups worked. I won't apologise for saving a species. We do it all on the time on Earth. So if that what Starfleet stands for, screw the academy I resign, Sir. If that's what you want. I'm following the Hippocratic oath, I won't follow a hypocritic oath.
Even though ST: Into Darkness is basically The Wrath of Khan redone, I find this one scene refreshingly close in spirit to the Original Series.
I think every captain in the Star Trek Universe has gotten away with violating the Prime Directive. Is it just me, or is the Federation extremely ineffective when it comes to punishing its officers for Insubordination. It's been going on since the Search for Spock.
Godzilla52
Goes back to TOS....Spock stealing the Enterprise.
*well* before the Search for Spock. Spock stealing the Enterprise didn't violate Prime Directive (tho doubtless several fleet regs) but Kirk did it at least 3 or 4 times every season.
Well it’s a stupid directive anyway
It's probably inevitable but they have it as a rule to discourage the worst offenders.
Great scene. Trying to picture Hunter and Shatner at each other.
Also liked the integration of the motion picture uniforms. Never thought they'd be used again.
this movie was far better than the first. so much more depth
no it was not
out of the reboot movies this is how it goes:
3 Star Trek Into Darkness
2 Star Trek (2009)
1 Star Trek Beyond
They're all trash
I liked how the Admirals uniform in this film looked like the Starfleet uniforms from The Motion Picture.
I love Bruce Greenwood’s Pike. He was 100 percent right! The only thing missing was Pike saying “Dismissed!”
I live for Spock being a smartass in Jim's defense
Never trust a Vulcan. Cracked me up hard :D
Such a well written scene.
This is what happens when you give someone your flagship when he's 3 days out of the academy.
I take it that promoting a cadet to captain wasn't the brightest idea?
Well he did save the world.
He promoted him to first officer not captain, he got himself that...
James Johnson being a one time hero does not qualify you for a highr anking position like captain.
@@davecrupel2817 It does in Star Trek. Weolcome to the setting.
@@christopherg2347 No, it doesn’t. This is the same as giving Nog command of the Enterprise-E, or Wesley, or any other cadet. It just doesn’t happen in any other Trek. DS9 actually did a similar episode, where a cadet takes command of a Defiant-class ship, and he predictably falls apart, getting his ship destroyed and his entire crew killed. In that cadet’s case, he at least had no choice and acted in an emergency. In Kirk’s case, it’s moronic. No matter how naturally capable he may be, that is no substitute for experience. He needed time in the lower ranks, doing the hard work, learning, so that he could become a good captain later down the line. It’s atrocious writing in the ‘09 film.
Or let me put it this way: for someone to wisely give orders, they must first learn how to obey orders.
There was a scene in the Babylon 5 tv show where the captain is asked whether its moral to interfere with the development of a species, to which the captain stated "Screw them"
your point?
I am pretty sure every species that was ever attacked or controlled by either the Shadows or Vorlons would have *liked* them having a prime directive!
I'm amazed Spock didn't get demoted too as he was the one who's plan it was to interfere, stated that he accepted responsibility for the events that resulted, and even showed a level of sass to Admiral Pike in this discussion.
Yes, but unlike his captain he owns up to it - he files it down and is prepared to take responsibility that technically falls to Kirk because Kirk is the commanding officer and therefore responsible for these major decisions. Plus, Pike probably feels bad for assigning him to Jim at this point...
Everyone else noticed how similar Pikes Uniform is to the one Kirk wore at the start of Star Trek: TMP?
I noticed that too! I think it's supposed to be an admiral's uniform.
Who else wishes they had Bruce Greenwood's voice?
Nah. I'd rather have Chris Tucker's voice!
I'd rather have Ben Cross's.
nah, Tom Baker Or Brian Blessed's Voice by a country mile
Pike: That's your problem, you think you're infallible, you think you can't make a mistake. It's a pattern with you, you think the rules are for other people.
Kirk: Some should be.
Is it just me or does this sound like a conversation that Obi-Wan and Anakin would have? Relax, boys, I think Star Wars is in good hands.
This comment didn't age very well.
@@r0bw00d No it most certainly did not.
Bruce Greenwood (Christopher Pike) was Fantastic in This Scene!
He makes an awesome Chris Pike. Granted, we only saw a little of Pike in TOS, but I think this interpretation of him is worthy.
You giving me attitude, Spock..!?
Spock was all over the place in this scene... LOL
I was really glad that they had this scene and consequences for Kirk in this timeline because it's true; he didn't learn the lessons Kirk did in the prime timeline to earn the chair and the responsibility that came from it. It was one of the biggest, rightful criticisms of the 2009 movie. In no way was Kirk supposed to be a Captain straight out of the Academy. In fact, he should have flunked out of the Academy as well.
JJ Abrams' Star-Trek films are near-masterful. Good plot, great dialogue, great acting, and, oh boy, the visual FX are terrific -- especially the Enterprise.
This is a great scene, i really like how the JJverse handled Cpt. Pike - with the exception of killing him off, of course.
0:30 "Yeah, tell me more about this volcano. Data says it was highly volatile and if it were to erupt, it would wipe out the planet."
"Sir, with all due respect, there's no guarantee Data will ever even be constructed in this timeline, and even if he were, it wouldn't be for many decades, so I wouldn't worry about it."
Bending the rules to the breaking point is how Kirk got to be Admiral but then after the events of ST3 Kirk was reduced in rank to Captain in ST4 by volatiling Starfleet regulations to save Spock. All charges but disobeying a superior officer where dismissed by saving earth from the destruction of the Probe. That is how Kirk became Captain again and was put in command of what he knew best, a starship.
This was one of the problems I had with Kirk in the Kelvin universe movies. They just jumped him straight from the academy to the captains chair. No way, even in an alternate universe, that would happen in Starfleet
Well I think there are reasonable grounds. In the fist movie he wasn't captain at first. It was Pike and then Spock. But Kirk gave good intel, and then used OG Spock advice to assume command. His actions saved Earth so that's a pretty big deal. Along with Pike I'm sure OG Spock gave his thoughts as well. So I think based on all of that they could see him doing it. The issue is more the flagship.
Dude he saved the earth and the whole federation, obviously they let him manage the enterprise since this scene
His comments to Hillary Swank in the Core were perfect for this scene your not ready because you haven't had to make the shitty call.
Probably the most hard hitting scene in the movie.
I love how Pike can't keep up with Spock's technicalities and logic so he just sends him away lol.
oh Spock you sass little nerd
Pike is a better Captain and officer in every way.
I love spock he is so smart awesome and handsome 💗 live long and prosper i 💗 star trek so much !!
What a sharp uniform.
That's because Spock is sassing Pike with that line. Straight out sassing.
Say what you want about the JJ-verse. This is the only time I can recall Kirk getting in trouble for violating the prime directive.
That's because, up until JJ, he never did.
@@r0bw00d LOL. Not a trek, are you?
@@SlimThrull Why? Are you about to point me in the direction of _Star Trek III?_
@@r0bw00d Naw, I'll point you to this list: www.syfy.com/syfywire/11-times-captain-kirk-violated-star-treks-prime-directive-and-one-time-he-didnt
This is like the time when my highschool football coach and the star quarterback had got into a heated argument. The whole gym got quiet as the two of them wenr back and forth with each other.
Well, what did Pike expect promoting a Cadet to Captain and giving him the best ship in the fleet? TOS Kirk had years of experience; successes, mistakes. Everything that molded him into the decisive Captain we first saw.
That being said, had this been Prime universe, Lieutenant Kirk would have talked his CO into a similar mission to save Nabiri. That was still the right call.
It kind of brings me out of my suspension of disbelief that they get cold fusion so wrong.The idea that they would freeze the volcano to stop it erupting and the whole 'super-blood' transfusion resurrection thing at the end had me similarly annoyed. Other than that its a good film though.
I want more Star Trek from these actors.
-mutters to self- and Starfleet is SURPRISED by this?!
I saw this coming since Kirk walked into that bar back in 2009...
0:39 "Oh shit, he lied."
0:48 "Oh shit, he told the truth."
Published on November 9, 2013
After their mission to save a planet from a volcano, the actions taken by the captain have been noted by Spock to Star Fleet. This means only one thing for Kirk. A meeting with Christopher Pike...
ST Into Darkness Clip
I find it cool that this movie had not one, but 2 actors that voiced Batman. Bruce Greenwood and Peter Weller. That aside it was a very enjoyable movie.
A problem I have with this film is that Kirk doesn’t learn this lesson, why the rules have to apply to him as well. He regains the Enterprise, has the old crew, defeats Khan’s plan & even gets to cheat death. Losing Pike is the nearest he gets to learning this lesson but I don’t think that’s enough.
Yeah, that’s my issue with this whole trilogy. He doesn’t learn the lessons that he should’ve and his character doesn’t develop.
I can't even imagine what SF home prices would be 200 years from now...
there isnt money in star trek
@@totalpartykill999 isn’t there? Is it based on the concept that poverty no longer exists anymore because recourses are now almost unlimited?
'Do you know how many crew members i have lost sir? Not one!'
Yes, which is why vs nero people were being flung into space by the holes in your ship caused by the missiles
The Enterprise (under Kirk's command) never truly saw combat against Nero. All the deaths were under Pike's command
I love Admiral Christopher Pike… he’s an excellent leader and like a father figure to him 🫡👏
Lol Spock's actor had the inflections down perfect there before he left the room.
As an old fan of the original Trek, Abrams Trek is just an imitation - fun to watch through once but I always enjoy going back and re-watching TOS and TNG, the real Trek!
Pike: what's the lesson to be learned here? Kirk: never trust a Vulcan. lmao that wasn't the answer pike wanted.
That was Kirk's chance to show contrition. Explain properly. Then he might have had a chance. I think he'd still have lost the Enterprise a top line ship but they might have given him captaincy of a lower order ship and missions see if he'd learnt his lesson..
It was so awesome to see Spock get "spicy" .Spock: I'm experiencing multiple emotions. To which are you referring too? Pike was so pissed all he could say was Get out. 🤣
The problem I have with this.. (albeit I loved the movie), is that previous "accomplishments" like Saving The Earth in I, always seem to be forgotten. You would take away his ship, because of his violation of some rules, and yet- he broke some of those rules in the 1st movie, and saved the entire planet- and probably others. This does not make sense to me.
I know the "powers that be" throw him under the bus WAY to quickly.
It was the lack of humility and the lying. If you get a job through deception. Even if you can later do that job, if it's found out your job is at risk. As trust is a cornerstone of everything else. That's why they throw the book at him. Yes the prime directive is important. However this wasn't a deliberate attempt to give the aliens tech or reveal themselves.
This is all Kirk had to do.
Captain's log stardate. Whilst routine surveying a planet we have noted the planet sustains life. Particularly plant life and some herd type creatures.
Next entry. We have noted the planet has an extremely active and volatile volcanic system with one particularly close by. Further exploration has discovered an evolving bipedal indigenous species who are primitive in their development. However Science Officer Spock has noted that much like our own human development given time they may too evolve to becoming like us. Galactic explorers.
Next entry. Crew and I have had a solemn day of soul searching. The volcano is becoming unstable and us likely to blow causing an extinction level event. My senior officers held a meeting to decide what to do. It got heated. Many fell back on the Prime Directive. If we hadn't been there,surveying the planet would we have known these people? No. Would they have survived no. Yet as others pointed out we are here, we are surveying and we think we have a solution. If we allow the volcano to start emitting the ash and plume will cover a shuttle to allow an officer to deploy a cold fusion device to stop the volcano. Additionally undercover officers can distract the locals with their own religion which we have studied and shows whilst primitive their growing attempts at reasoning and logic. So what should we do. Follow the prime directive blindly and leave these people to their fate. Can we in all good conscience do that? Knowing we have the means and potential to do something yet walk away and do nothing? Are lives less important than the words of the prime directive. Or is trying to save a species as stealthily as possible not in fact the spirit? We aren't beaming down making contact or giving them warp engines. We are simply trying to save a species from extinction. How many times have we tried to do that on Earth?
Captain's log supplemental. I know how I as Captain wanted to do this but it's not just my decision even if it's my responsibility. We took a senior officer vote and we are going to try the plan. Mr Spock is confident he can pull it off. I have faith in him and my crew. If it works we will have clean conscience and an unsuspecting species survival on our hands. If we fail, we may have just broken the prime directive but a species will survive along with the other indigenous flora and fauna. No we can't tell what that might do development wise but by the time they are warp capable it will be legend I hope.
Captain's log. We succeeded but almost at the cost of Mr Spock. Unwilling to sacrifice any lives theirs or ours I took the captain's decision to raise the ship to a point we could beam Mr Spock aboard before dying due to a transporter issue. We may have been spotted very briefly in this manoeuvre and I regret that this may have caused an issue in their timeline. I however stand by the fact they at least have a timeline and no one has died. I hope Starfleet command can see the moral dilemma we faced here however I accept there may be consequences. I hope my Frank account helps to get a fair hearing and any penalty is just. I do have some additional suggestions such as increased surveying tools from space so we don't have to risk parties being spotted or the Enterprise or other ships descending from orbit. Additionally I would request some sort of local beaming technology for wearers on hazardous missions. This would have ensured all objectives were met. However I reiterate the crew and I could not find it in ourselves to follow the prime directive at the cost of a sentient species, however primitive, blindly. End log.
@@TheWPhilosopher FUCKING NAILED IT 🔥🔥🔥
Outstanding Assessment. I enjoyed reading this Captain's Log.
@@shannongreen1520 aw thanks I appreciate it! 🙏
😞Well that sucks having someone to take away his ship is just the reasons why he saved lives.
I don't disagree with Kirk's decision to save the Niburuans (who knows, if they make it, and the Federation's still around in 10,000-20,000 years, they'll discover warp drive, and become a member planet), but he shouldn't have lied.
Part of being right also means being able to defend your actions, to insist on a little to no punishment, and that maybe an exception to the Prime Directive to allow the Niburuans a chance to grow was the moral thing to do or similar future circumstances.
After all, if Yellowstone were to go off, or if some idiot heads of state were beginning to butt their heads and start WW-III (like Kim Jong Un and our current idiot of a President), I'd want an advanced race to do the same. We can't learn from our mistakes if we die, after all.
It's been said by conspiracy theorists (and supported by military officers) that UFOs have disabled our nukes, and that perhaps we can't even launch them if they decided to stop us, for example, and been speculated that Yellowstone won't go off, because they are keeping it from doing so.
If our civilization ever gets to that point, then I would want us to act as good samaritans, and help other civilizations during their development, while also giving them the chance to grow on their own.
Lol he's always been a smartass, even Leonard Nemoy was one as Spock
One problem with the PD in this case. While I can admit the Enterprise sighting is an issue, altering destiny is the very reason behind medical science and has been something humanity has strived for over the course of thousands of years. Saying the planet shouldn't have been saved because it was too primitive for intervention is like saying a a dying man shouldn't be saved if he doesn't know what's wrong with him
Kirk: You'd be so noble, Pointy, if you weren't also throwing me under the bus...
_Miraculously, Spock actually looks pissed off._
Spock (no-one disses the ears) Pointy? Is that a derogatory reference to my -
Pike: Gentlemen.
I love how Spock is interrupted before he can say "ears".
"Get fucked" -some star fleet admiral to some indigenous people of some random planet that happened to luckily be observed during their cataclysmic event by a more than capable space faring interstellar coalition of races who could and did easily intervene on their almost complete annihilation. The sacrifice of losing a first officer compared to potentially lose an entire race is more than acceptable.
The writers think Kirk saying hi to every woman who walks by establishes him as a lady's man. It just makes him look like Zach Morris.
BigNoseDoggie I think they're trying to show him as young and immature, not sexy. He'll be sexy later.
shit, this hit me like a rock. In real life, I was hired to improve the department and I get reprimanded for improving the process without “due process”. I also got the “You don’t respect the process”.. wtf..
Because it was the will of the one true God and helped to advance their species in the appropriate direction.
I'm only half Vulcan. But i'm pretty sure that Vulcan's forge knows what's going on around here. You know what I mean?
62 people don't respect the Chair.
"You are using blind luck to justify your playing god" - As I remember they dont follow up on this, but finally someone expressing this to a main character. Rules exist for a reason and especially in a series like this, that reason is the great danger the entire crew of an exploring star ship is in. Main characters have plot armor, so they always end up on top when they break any of these rules, but they arent supposed to know about this. They cant use plot armor as an excuse to disregard any danger. So in their eyes and everyone elses in that fictional universe they are relying on nothing but blind luck, which is a terrible trait in a leader who is responsible for the lives of so many people.
Of course he doesn't respect the chair. You gave it too him when he wasn't even 5 minutes out of the academy 🙄
Love how Kirk makes reference to Spock's ears
Of course, with all the experienced captains toasted by Nero, a sudden promotion for the Cadet who went above and beyond and saved the whole planet, might have been as much political (public relations) as it was practical.....
Especially if said Captain and ship are out on what amounts to scientific scouting runs.
"THIS" is not the James Kirk we know from three years of the original series!
In fact, the producers really screwed it up! BIG TIME.....
This is the second time Greenwood has had to talk to a subordinate who's never 'lost' and he died in that movie too.
Pike is right. Kirk was using blind luck to justify himself.
im conveying multiple attitudes to which are you referring?
if anyone was wondering, thats The Getty and it pretty much looks like that
that's an admiral and a friend.
Were all on the clock for this planet to unify under a single banner.
Not a single crew member lost, seems way more responsible then the original kirk.