Star Trek (2/9) Movie CLIP - A Pointy-Eared Bastard (2009) HD
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- Опубліковано 22 лис 2011
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CLIP DESCRIPTION:
Kirk (Chris Pine) is accused of cheating on the Kobayashi Maru test by Commander Spock (Zachary Quinto), who wrote the test.
FILM DESCRIPTION:
Mission: Impossible III director and Alias creator J.J. Abrams resurrects the classic science fiction franchise created by Gene Roddenberry with this feature film that embraces the rich history of the influential television and film series while also exploring some uncharted territory. Heroes star Zachary Quinto assumes the role of the Federation Starfleet lieutenant and Vulcan made famous in the original series by Leonard Nimoy (who also appears in an older incarnation of his original role), Spock, with Anton Yelchin stepping into the role of USS Enterprise navigator Pavel Chekov, Zoe Saldana assuming the role of communications officer Uhura, Simon Pegg keeping the ship in top shape as chief engineer Montgomery Scott (aka "Scotty"), and Eric Bana tormenting the benevolent space explorers as the villainous Nero. Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle co-star John Cho also boards the Enterprise as Hikaru Sulu, with Chris Pine and Karl Urban assuming the legendary roles of Captain Kirk and Leonard "Bones" McCoy, respectively.
CREDITS:
TM & © Paramount (2009)
Cast: Tyler Perry, Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, Karl Urban
Director: J.J. Abrams
Producers: J.J. Abrams, David Baronoff, Bryan Burk, Jeffrey Chernov, Alex Kurtzman, Damon Lindelof, Roberto Orci, David Witz
Screenwriters: Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Gene Roddenberry
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"A captain cannot cheat death"
Original series: Kirk and his crew cheat death every episode
Courtesy of plot armor.
That wouldnt happen in real life.
@@davecrupel2817
Lol. Plot armor happens in real life too. Some people just cannot die.
There are stories where people cheat death time and again.
@@HumanPhilosopherPatriot You can postpone it, but you can't evade it forever. Nobody can.
@@ariaflame-au Calm down, Final Destination. I still avoid log trucks. Haha
Dave Crupel lol yeah warp travel and spaceships wouldn’t happen in real life either 😂
Spock: A Captain can not cheat death.
*After Star Trek Into Darkness*
Kirk: Yes he can!
Nope..Bones cheated his NEAR death....he wasnt all that dead as mentioned in said movie....
TSEDLE333 I don’t get why people take such huge issue with that. Close saves and Maguffins like that have always been part of Star Trek like The Prophets stopping a Dominion fleet in DS9 or Seven reviving Neelix in Voyager using Borg nanoprobes (who was dead far longer than Kirk).
It happens.
No, he can't. A commander is responsible for all under his command.
and besides the augments they didn´t know the borg nanoprobes yet XD... Seven would show them how.. not to mention the Voy episode Ashes to ashes... ensign Lindsay Ballard
@@austinboylan5476 Usually in Star Trek the asspull move works only once, There are two issues with this movie, one that the transwarp beaming thing does sound like something that could be widely replicated and quick to make ships obsolete, the other the whole "superblood" issue that pretty much renders, medicine obsolete. I mean yes we lost Kahn but we still got all his buddies to synthesize that blood which apparently can cure anything.
Then again, lets all repeat the mantra "its just a show, chill" :) These issues dont stop me from enjoying the movies
I love how Spock spoke about the importance of fear from a Vulcan superiority position but then the distress call comes in and his human side immediately kicks in and you see his fear for his mother on his face
You say that like Vulcans can't feel at all, as if they need a human side for that.
The fact is, Vulcans CAN feel, but they need to repress it because it'll overwhelm them. They control themselves. But they still feel. Spock's own father spoke of his love for his mother, how he didn't tell her the depth of his love while she was still alive.
It was a stupid change anyway. The test wasn't meant to instill fear, just see how the crew would behave if they couldn't win. Cheating in order to win is technically a viable option.
@@user-fp5vf9qh3i Maybe there should. But that isn't the case. There are many situations where a "win" isn't possible.
@@homsar5675 the odds are never one hundred or percent. as shown by kirk beating what was once known as a unbeatable test. there are many things people said weren't possible before someone else went and did it. there is no such things as a 0% or 100% chance. sure you can be 100% sure than if you let an apple go it will hit the ground (guaranteeing for no outside forces other than gravity) but what you cant be sure of, is that the apple or that you and I are even real. There is no way to prove it. Therefore there is a chance that the apple will not hit the ground because neither it nor the ground are real
@@peytonmac1131 Yup. The purpose of the test was explicitly stated in "Star Trek II": to show how potential captains will react in a no-win scenario. While fear or despair are things you might experience in such a test, that's NOT the reaction that Starfleet is looking for in its captains. The point of the test is to see how clever, brave and resourceful you are under pressure, NOT to "experience fear." JJ is gaslighting us about what the test was for because he wanted to work a "fear" story arc into one of his characters.
"I don't know, but I like him." He probably regrets admitting that later, since they have such a love-hate relationship.
I think that was pure sarcasm
Such a reversal of the two characters. Lol
Congrats. You got the very obvious joke behind that line.
@@pderham26 Yeah, I'm incredibly gifted like that
We are all gifted like that
Young Bones: "I don't know, but I like him."
Older Bones: "GrEeN bLoOdEd HoBgObLiN!"
True, but he still liked him.
Quinto was a excellent Spock without being a carbon copy of nimoy, he made it his own while paying homage to nimoy
"I don't think you like the fact that I beat your test" LOL
What’s your point??
He didn’t. Because apparently it’s ‘unbeatable’ and no one wins on the 1st try or goes back for a second
@@anywaythewindblows8912 Until Kirk came along and did the impossible.
@@rexlumontad5644 I meant he didn’t like the fact the he beat the test
@@anywaythewindblows8912 True. Spock was a sore loser at the time and did this academy tribunal to humiliate Kirk.
"Who the hell is that pointy eared bastard?"
"IDK but I like him"
OH SURE you do Bones.
I think it was sarcasm, Bones style.
garathome perfectly done
TheHobbitFTW 3 years later.
“Stupid Vulcan” -Bones
Commander Spock. He was introduced to everyone.
" A captain cannot cheat death. "
What kirk shouldve said:
" But he can outsmart it. "
Or "but he can prolong it."
Both make sense, since death is unavoidable.
Or he can merge both statement by saying " but he/she can prolong it through wits and actions."
I think a quote from the Martian fits here. "you solve one problem. Then another. And another. And if you solve enough problems you just might survive". There is no "no-win" situations. Just problems you can't solve fast enough
@@NormalHatter I think you mean delay.
Fun fact: in the original timeline, James T. Kirk, despite having cheated, was awarded a commendation for "original thinking".
Even though it's a different timeline he should still be awarded commendation.
Why are they now trying to throw him out of school for cheating?
@@-C.S.R well, that is a good question. Maybe because the timeline was changed when Nero killed James' father and didn't have any influence in the academy.
Politics is everywhere and requires another level of cunning beyond the intelligence needed to understand a material well enough to be put in a spot for that to matter.
I said it before, I'll say it again. Whoever was responsible for choosing the actors to portray the younger versions of the crew of the Enterprise. Did a remarkable, spectacular, extraordinary, and downright spot-on job. I enjoyed this show immensely. Thank you for whoever chose those actors. Signed, a crusty old white dude who grew up in the sixties.
I have to agree with you…..when Chris Pine sits in the big chair wearing the gold shirt, he really is Captain Kirk, and the second best casting was Dr. McCoy. Karl Urban nailed that character in a way that is completely believable…and if Dee Kelly can see from wherever he is right now, he is nodding his head, and saying, “good job, kid.”
agreed! that was definitely one of the strengths of these movies was the casting.
agreed, excellent casting, horrible script... Scotty needs a sidekick, what? all of it was terrible and starwarsy. but the cast!!! such a waste
Your kidding right - "that many accolades"? ....
Just don't watch Star Trek 2009 after Smokin Aces. Chris Pine is a fine actor.
Kirk: "Who's that pointy-eared bastard?"
Bones : "I don't know. But I like him."
Haha! Oh, McCoy, guess who will call Spock a green-blooded, pointy-eared bastard for the next decades?
And he says I Hate space and might be sick. and then spends his whole life in space.
darthmaul208 His wife divorced him and left him with nothing. A commission in Star Fleet would solve all his basic needs while still having a noteworthy career.
Exactly as Deforest would have said it if he were still alive xD LOL.
Xerxes2005 " I'm trying to thank you, you pointed ear hobgoblin"
And a green-blooded hobgoblin.
Kirk didn't cheat. He knew the test was rigged and thought outside the box to beat it. That's not cheating. It's improvising, adapting and overcoming as the Marine Corps would say.
+VHTesla no Spock explains its unwinnable
+VHTesla Is that a trump reference?
EXACTLY SPOCK WAS JUST UPSET
And Spock Prime believed that Kirk's way of beating the test was rather "unique". But in this one, he chooses to beat the test by finding a way around to make it "winnable", and what happens is they punish him in a public hearing for "cheating" on the test, even though Spock prime mentions his method of beating the test was "unique"
Kirk even got a commendation for original thinking…
You can tell that Spock hit a sore spot with Kirk when he mentioned his father, which leads me to believe that the real reason he rigged the Kobiashi Maru was because of his bitterness regarding his father's death. I mean, here is Spock going on and on about how a captain should accept his fate in that type of situation. Meanwhile Kirk is probably thinking: "Yes he bravely faced death, but that doesn't change the fact that he died and left me and my mom on our own." Therefore my theory is that Kirk rigging the simulation was actually his way of creating a different ending to his father's story, whether he realized it or not.
Lauren Brown Pretty interesting analysis. Nice point.
Prime Kirk had his father growing up, and he still rigged the test. He must have had some other reason.
@@nrkgalt Prime Kirk had a different life and a different set of experiences. Their timelines were changed at birth, not after the Kobiashi test.
@@nrkgalt Kirk: Changed the conditions of the test... got a commendation for original thinking. I don't like to lose.
Saavik: Then you've never faced that situation, faced death.
Kirk: I don't believe in a "no-win" scenario.
Lauren Brown only if I could write as well as you.
Did Spock just do the "Picard Manuever" when he stood up?
Damn, he did!!
Leonard Nimoy's Spock did that often as well.
Trademark of those uniforms, bunching up at the bottom and needing to be tugged down to not look sloppy lol
He did!
I went back and expected to see an error where Spock appeared in two places at once for a frame or two. Wrong Picard maneuver lol.
1:18 Ya, Spock I wouldn't start insulting the parents there, since you flip your shit every time someone mentions yours.
But how can the test make you experience fear if you know that the only outcome is failure? If you know the test is unbeatable you would react to it differently than in real life.
they don't know that. oh well they're not supposed to know. all they know is the test has never been beaten, not that it's programed to be unbeatable.
***** well ok yeah, NOW they know lmao. But before that I'm sure no one knew.
NEEBS
The cadets are given multiple tests. Some are winnable. Some are not. The cadets do not know which tests are winnable and which are not, so they take each test as though it is winnable.
Well there's the biggest challenge for any military. You cannot effectively simulate life-threatening combat situations in a controlled environment. The closest real world militaries do is where special forces cadets are made to walk alone for miles in hills, mountains and forests. They will have teams ready to perform search and rescue if needed, but still, some do get lost, injured and killed.
But how would Starfleet train cadets with a life and death scenario, with the cadet actually fearing for their life? It's tricky. But no amount of training can truly prepare you for the real thing.
As the saying goes, "There is no substitute for experience."
I honestly do not know how Kirk didn't just launch at Spock for bringing his father into it
I thought it was a compliment. In his dads final moments he went down fighting and saving lives. The point of the simulation is to realize that you can’t cheat death and in a way this simulation is probably made because of his dad. Being attacked and his vessel compromised to the point of having to order an abandon ship and auto pilot disabled. He basically was given one choice.
Ohhh...you can bet your bottom dollar that he wanted to!
I just noticed when Spock stood up from his seat, he performed the Picard Maneuver. Excellent.
"Who the hell is that pointy eared bastard?"
Your future husband, Jim
I love how Spock talks about fear in the face of certain death in this scene and then Kirk says “I’m scared Spock. Help me not be.” when he faces his ''certain'' death and Spock cries....
They did really good job when it comes to parallels.......
"your point being" AHAHAHH!
0:37 This line proves that Kirk is in the right.
Spock says "Cadet Kirk SOMEHOW managed to install and activate a subroutine..." Even he, the creator of the test, cannot explain how Kirk did it.
Real cheating is usually much more trivial, like bringing in the answers or looking at someone else's results. It can be easily explained. In other words, laziness.
Kirk was not lazy. He managed to do something that literally no one was capable of doing before. He saw a scenario that everyone assumed was "certain death", and in the face of this, he said no. He then proceeded to expertly orchestrate a solution that won him the day. Spock's logic is "A captain cannot cheat death". Even if we conclude there are an infinite number of scenarios where this statement is correct, it SHOULD be ignored. Kirk had hope. He had hope that there was a way to NOT die, and in a life and death situation, this is something worth believing in. In real life there will almost ALWAYS be a way to win, it might have a tiny chance of success, but it still exists nonetheless. Spock claims that the simulation is designed to help future captain's experience fear, and then to accept that fear. That may be useful in certain scenarios, but if the test were truly great, it would be winnable. An unwinnable test is likely to witness its subjects be complacent and simply not try at all, all they will ask is "what's the point?".
You say this like every other test at Starfleet wouldn't be winnable. They were. This singular test had the purpose for teaching those "certain scenarios" you mention. The test is to prove that even if everything is done right, sometimes it isn't enough. This is not to say you should not try your best, take every action that you believe is correct in sound judgement. But sometimes, it won't be enough, and this test is to show that you must maintain your composure in either situation.
@@S1erra107 Yes, but if the subjects know before hand that the test is 100% unwinnable, the test instead of producing *fear* will instead produce indifference, despondency, or, as already mentioned, a certain complacency. These negative attitudes are deadly in real life combat. So, I agree, the test itself is a cheat. And, cheaters don't like being cheated... thus, Spock, I believe, took it personal in a most un-Vulcan kind of way. In life, as long as their is life, there is hope. :)
Another flaw in the logic of the test is that it assumes that the creator of the test is somehow able to decide with utter certainty what is and is not an unwinnable situation. The situation may be programmed to be unwinnable not because it truly is, but because its creator merely thinks it is. It completely removes any room for a different thought process to find a different solution (and conveniently removes any possibility that a new recruit will show up a Star Fleet officer, which is a thing that can and does happen in real life with war game exercises).
Issue is you can hack the test to make situation winnable by committing certain action, you can't hack reality to make situation winnable by committing certain action. There can be scenario (even if very unlikely) in which no matter what you do you will lose (ie meeting whatever conditions for losing are established). Facing essentially overwhelmingly superior opponent that you couldn't even harm (for an example in theory let's call it evil Q) in said scenario that's has limited time before evil Q destroys you, and no you won't be able to convince or escape such being then basically you're stuck in scenario that's impossible to win. Ever heard about concept of losing the battle to win a war or minimizing losses/lesser of two evils? You can lose in scenario (e.g die and fail to defeat enemy) yet weaken enemy sufficiently in that scenario for others later to win the war or simply lead to or ensure that scenario with less casualties and damages is taken. Hence test was designated to test how captain will react to facing such scenario and if they keep their cool trying at least to do their best.
Alan Sanchez they don‘t know before hand.
The guy that plays Spock is a great actor 🙂
Brilliant actor
Prob one of my Favorite Vulcans
@@khanyanqabomzinqundwana7599
He was brilliant in Heros as Sylar.
Zachary Quinto. He played Sylar in the show "Heroes", and has been in some other movies as well, such as "Margin Call".
@@linuxsurfer2002
Wait, is there an echo in here??
I love this scene for multiple reasons.
1) McCoy and Spock are supposed to hate each other, so when he says 'I don't know, but I like him' I couldn't help but think 'just give it time Doctor, then see if you still like him'.
2) The distress call was from Vulcan, when Spock hears this you can clearly see he is worried. This Spock is more human than the TOS Spock.
3) You can see how much they dislike each other which makes their friendship all the more fun to watch later on.
McCoy and Spock most certainly do not hate one another. Their friendship is something of a sibling rivalry than out right spite.
Makes sense, because his mother was human.
Yup- that’s what’s been fun about this reboot. Same folks, but slightly different too. A whole universe of “what if’s” to explore. Loved Spock Prime- but I like this Spock, with anger management issues, too.
Dammit pony, I'm a doctor, not a fortune teller
I actually like the idea of Kirk and Spock starting off as rivals and then gradually becoming friends, and Mccoy liking Spock at first (because Spock is honest and straightforward?), then becoming more and more annoyed by him. Even knowing the characters of Kirk, Spock and Mccoy from TOS, I think this is a good version of how their friendship could've start.
" who was that pointy eared bastered?" " I don't know, but I like him!"
Kirk and Bones.
I like how the judge (or whatever) just took a half-second long glance at the pad and was able to divine all that information and the immediate course of action in the blink of an eye. That's mentat level calculation right there
Bufftats
This scene is so well-acted and shot. Great script by Kurtzman and Orci, solid direction by J.J. Abrams. Cast and crew did a great job on this one. A superb film.
So...did all the cadets die above Vulcan because they were wearing red uniforms?
+Emmett Krantz you're so right they didn't obey rule #1: NEVER WEAR A RED UNIFORM!!!!
Emmett Krantz no. They died because they failed the test.
Yes all of them
No I don't think they get the "redshirt privilege" until they are no longer cadets I believe they have to be actual ensigns to get gutted by a multi headed tentacled alien on an away mission
Emmett Krantz Kirk’s wearing red and so is Bones.....
Kirk: takes the test
Spock: I’m about to end this man’s whole career.
Kirk: gets promoted and proceeds to nearly end his life.
The Kobayashi Maru is a test that is designed with one purpose in mind: to be impossible to win (this precludes cheating). The ship in question, upon which the test is named after, is stranded in the Klingon/Federation Neutral Zone, on the Klingon side specifically. While it is not a Starfleet ship, its' crew are members of the Federation. Furthermore, any Starfleet vessel crossing the border without authorization is in direct violation of the treaty and would ignite a war between the two factions.
You are presented with, at first, two options: cross over into the Neutral Zone in an attempt to rescue the Kobayashi Maru's crew, or leave them to what is almost certain death or enslavement on a Klingon penal colony. If you leave them, you "fail" the test, as you let innocents die while in command when you could have done something about it.
Should you proceed into the Neutral Zone, you will immediately be caught off-guard by an overwhelming number of Klingon Battlecruisers and Birds of Prey. Odds vary, but usually no less than 3 Battlecruisers and 4 Birds of Prey. Turns out the stranded Kobayashi Maru was a trap set by the Klingons in an attempt to lure more vessels over the Neutral Zone. You're presented with two more options: surrender your vessel and crew, preparing yourselves to become POW's, or try and fight your way out and back across the border. Giving up and surrendering is also considered a "fail", as your decisions led to your crew's capture and enslavement.
Should you choose to try and fight your way out, it will become painfully clear that you are hopelessly outgunned, outnumbered, and outmanuevered, as you ship will not be strong enough to fend them off, and at most you may take out 1 or 2 Birds of Prey. Giving the order to abandon ship is a "fail", as those escape pods will either be destroyed or collected, your crew killed or enslaved. Dying is also a "fail", as you, well, died.
No matter the choice you make, each and every route leads to a "fail". The purpose of the exercise is multi-faceted:
1) There are times where you can do everything correctly, and still fail. That's not a mistake, but rather life, and we must all learn to live with that.
2) Your choices, good or bad, will affect not only yourself, but the lives of those who work and serve under you, especially if you're in a position of authority or command.
3) Never assume that there is always a way out, or that there are no such thing as "no-win scenarios". There's always someone smarter, stronger, faster, or better prepared than you are, and in the vastness of space, chances are you're going to encounter at least one of those people/groups in your travels. Confidence is a good thing, and absolutely necessary. Overconfidence, however, is a very quick and easy way to ensure the deaths of everyone aboard a starship in a short period of time.
I feel like this test is built on the basis of a lack of communication between both involved parties. As you said, any Starfleet vessel without authorization. So...contact Starfleet and request authorization! Better yet, contact the Klingon Empire and explain the situation to them! “Hey, sorry to disturb you, but there’s been a bit of a hiccup. You see, we’ve got a stranded vessel that - by sheer dumb luck - drifted into the neutral zone. If you don’t mind, we’d just like to get the crew to safety. That alright with y’all?” Unless the Klingons take EVERYTHING as a declaration of war, I think you could bypass the entire conflict by talking it out. I could be wrong though.
Nice elucidation!
So what are you saying, that failure is a part of life that we must accept? Makes a lot of sense. Also, great analysis, so, what then would be the choice to make?
Obeying your legal obligation to avoid starting a war is considered a "fail" because you failed to rescue people outside your jursidiction and therefore outside the scope of your responsibilities? That's bullshit.
Honestly the Maru is more combat focused than bargain focused. I remember I forgot who broke the test by doing negotiations with the Klingons instead of fighting. Another person destroyed the Maru due to him believing it was a trap and a civi ship has no reason to be at the neutral zone. Due to this. The Maru was able to take out afew klingon ships and they were able to succeed. In bridge crew, you can actually complete the mission by transporting everyone off, or getting some off due to the Maru blowing up.
*karl urban was perfect as mccoy, hell he still IS*
This movie was made in 2009, & now, we're just 9 days away from Christmas, 2021.
Where did the time go?
It seems like it was only a few days ago, when I first watched this movie, but I was 46, going on 47. Now, I'm 59, and man! It just seems like the years have just flown by!
Karl urban is perfect in everything he plays in
@@ronaldshank7589 2022 about to end. Time indeed flies
That little glance towards the exit when his father is brought up, it kills me. He's looking for an escape route. He instinctively looks for escape when his father is brought up. What does that tell you?
why does that matter tho, also it's pretty low of Spock to bring up his dead father
"I don't believe in no win scenarios" I said this when i broke a spreadsheet that said you can't achieve a profit over £250.00 and i got £268.00!
The fear in Spock's eyes when he hears there is a distress call from vulcan.
"I don't think you like the fact that I beat your test."
Zachary Quinto as Spock is perfect. He has so much charisma and he's so badass even when he's the most calm and controlled. So hot.
Kirk should have said "If the test is indeed a no-win scenario and rather designed to be a test of a potential captain's character does this test not fail to achieve this objective? The very premise fails as it is a simulation. As many of those here who have actually commanded a starship know, there is no substitute for the real thing. You never truly know how one will react in the face of death until it happens. As to facing a no win scenario. Winning is not black or white. For instance, my father died and his ship was destroyed you would consider that a loss, yes? Or he sacrificed himself to save his crew and his wife and unborn son. I would chalk that up to a win. In either case Admiral, this test is an irrelevant farce, nothing useful is learned from it and only seeks to punish those who take it."
Agreed, though something can be learned by it. Not for the cadets, but for the programmers. Every new and creative successful response that occurs before it becomes unwinnable can be cataloged and studied by Star Fleet and folded into their training.
lol winning is black or white
@@MrBrownsugar85 Oh yeah ?
Spock... supposedly "Vulcan"...has humanity within him...and he absolutely detests and despises it! There are scenes that bear this statement out. Fighting anybody that crosses his path in a potentially harmful way...and denying himself the opportunity to truly explore his humanity, which he so loathes. It was as if the test that he invented, The Kobiashi Maru, was a revenge scenario of sorts towards everyone that was human... himself included. He would never admit it, but he hated humans, which means that he hated the very part of himself that was human!
I actually pity him for feeling and being like this. Finally, however, he overcame that hatred towards those humans that he wanted to do away with, and learned to accept things as they are, knowing that things like this cannot be changed.
Spock have Kirk the lowest blow ever when he mentioned his dad.
+MsLovestory01 Kirk returns the favour though, to get Spock to be emotinally compromised though (by order of future spock)
+Andrew Shaw In what way compromised?
Watch Ryder Spock lost his temper with Kirk and almost choked the life out of him on the bridge, if you remember. From here, Spock's 'logic complex' made him give up command of the enterprise due to 'emotional compromising'
Well, his mother and planet had just died...anyone would be 'emotionally compromised'. And 'Genius' Kirk only did it because Spock Prime told him to do it....
TSEDLE333 you realise he did that on purpose and for good reason though? Future Spock knew that the alternate timeline would be screwed without the Federation's last surviving ship (Enterprise) being captained by Kirk. Therefore, knowing himself he knew that if Kirk made him feel 'emotionally compromised' over the logic that Vulcan's hold dear than alternate Spock would feel like he was unfit to command, leaving the position 'open' to Kirk. He did this by pissing him off basically, I never said Spock shouldn't have reacted the way he did though, but that's not the point
Lol And decades later... McCoy: I hate this guy.
He's your future best friend, Jim
There's absolutely no way Madea read the pad that quickly and deduced that first there was a distress call and it was from Vulcan.
The only way this could be possible is if the pad said: "VULCAN IN TROUBLE! AHHH! HELP!"
You don’t know, it probably did🤷♂️
it probably just said DISTRESS CALL FROM VULCAN
He just read the title of the report
McCoy: I don't know, but I like him
Oh Leonard, you may like now but later on.....
Changing the conditions of the test in an obvious way so everyone sees / understands what you did then fully owning up to what you did and explaining afterwards why you did it: breaking the test. Changing the conditions of the test in a sneaky, deceptive way and not owning up to anything or explaining why you did it: cheating.
You know when he said "l dont believe in non winable scenarios", it made me think of the first scene in ST beyond, where he gets stomped by a hundred aggresive space koalas.
If the test's principle was that a "captain cannot cheat death", why is a cadet allowed to take the test MORE THAN ONCE?
That isn't fucking logical, Spock.
I don't think it's public knowledge that the test is unbeatable, only that it's hard to pass.
Please expand on this notion.
Ok my grammar sucks but here I go: I'm not a trekie so i can't say my answer is a fact but, I believe that most people think the test is unbeatable because it's hard, not because they know that is in fact programed so that the one doing the test fails no matter what. So that means if you fail, you'll just think: "dammit it's difficult, I'll try something different next time." So basically they'll wanna keep trying to pass the test cause they don't know it is a no-win scenario.
I'm not a Trekkie either, so we're both in the same boat in that regard.
Spock was arguing that the test's true purpose was to help the cadet taking the test experience and accept fear in certain death and to maintain control of one's crew. (1:25) Though this purpose is lost if one is able to take multiple attempts.
To touch on your notion: If the test remains unchanged, over time someone will eventually crack it (Maybe they didn't have cryptography on Vulcan or in Starfleet) and the test would have went from "unbeatable" to an inevitable solution.
So really, the moral of the story is don't be like Spock: Update your antivirus definitions, change your password every now and then, don't click any "hot alien chick" links; especially if they were sent from James Kirk. Also, don't give Kirk or any other cadet at Starfleet admin or superuser privileges and set appropriate permissions on accounts.
The purpose is not lost with repeated attempts. The fear is still there, however a new emotion emerges, too. Bravery.
It's called assertiveness training in psychology.
And then there's how Mackenzie Calhoun handled it in Star Trek: New Frontier: he blew up the Kobayashi Maru on the grounds that it was being used as bait to provoke an even bigger incident.
Such a BAMF move.
+drksideofthewal BAMF?
Watch Ryder
Bad-Ass Motherf*cking. Means it's really cool. :p
“Dispatch two raiders to confirm there are passengers aboard… nothing to report? It’s a trap!” 😂
people saying Kirk missed the point of the test by cheating on it seem to forget this is far from the first time he's taken it
I noticed that too when he went to take it a 3rd time. It’s kind of hard to be fearful when you know what the outcome will be
1:54 - Spock’s expression makes my heart hurt.
They should've used the Kobayashi Maru training simulation on the captain of the "Costa Concordia" before he piloted that ship.
Bit hard to show off to your girlfriend in space!
I love all there of this movies! Makes me so sad we probably won't see more of them.
Sacrifice, including self-sacrifice is actually trained in almost all military around the world today. For those criticizing no-win training scenarios think about that.
If Billy Butcher likes you, you should wear that with a badge of honor.
I would have asked Spock if he took the test and experienced fear.
Cuz I am mean like that.
🤣🤣🤣
I can understand the logic behind the Kobayashi Maru no win scenario. It's more of separating out those who can't handle impending death whether it's from an attack or a phenomenon.
And to drill out the… hesitation in the crew that you saw even in the clip.
he is such a great spock! well cast!
We all know Spock hit a sore spot when he brought Kirk’s father into this discussion.
Which is what makes Kirk going after Spock when he returned to the Enterprise after being marooned all the more potent. He was literally throwing Spock's logic right back in his face.
A better defense on Kirk's part would be that he'd already taken the test, had already experienced that fear Spock referred to, and had already experienced the no-win scenario, so he'd done what was expected of future captains. He probably still would've lost, but that would've been a better route to take than accusing Spock of being pissed that Kirk managed to win the test.
Good point
Spock: A Captain can not cheat death.
*Star Trek Into Darkness kicks in*
Kirk: Well allow me to retort
Bones likes spock the world is fing ending
Everything changed in the second movie.
When I first saw this movie, I thought Spock was going to be a complete and total ass. I almost got up and left because of it, but thank God I stayed.
+Pakatar You're preconceived notion of this Spock was completely illogical.
e. davian Yes, I apologize.
It would be logical to surmise that the Spock presented here, was motivated by an emotional response. His...pride was bruised by Kirk's non-chalance. This makes the notion that this Spock was an "ass" a logical one, albeit premature, supported by the extant evidence.
He is only half Vulcan.
Arceus Legend He's half human and half Vulcan so Spock's human emotions sometimes surface through his Vulcan logic.
I love reading the posts of honest-to-goodness Trekkies.
R. Walsh This movie isn't Star Trek however, more a lame imitation of it.
The Star Trek crew is an allegory of the human mind. There is an ego setting goals (Kirk), a logic center (Spock), an emotional center (Bones), and a cerebellum (Scotty). What Kirk is saying is that the ego cannot acquiesce to the certainty of death, but must "rail against the dying of the light."
Kirk technically didnt "cheat" as Kirk didn't actually beat the test.
If the goal of the test is to see how a person acts under pressure, then kirk failed to participate in the test, as he refused to enter a test with pressure.
By defeating the Klingons, and saving the crew, the test still never took place.
Thats like getting a test paper, and using white out to change the questions on the test paper.
You didn't "cheat" you just refused to participate. And in this case, waste other peoples time, as it's something that has to be set up.
There is only one way to get the correct test answers on a paper, and only the answers expected are acceptable. Changing the question doesnt make your answers correct.
So by definition, he didn't cheat. He also didn't "win" by definition. (also, Spock prime said his "Attempt" was unique. Unless its specified elsewhere, spock never said Kirk prime beat the test. (Plus that was a different time line, where Kirk entered the academy earlier.)
Technically it is more like breaking into your teacher's office the night before to change the test. You did not even take the original test but kinda still cheated.
Uh I think you kinda just stated Spock's point
Whatever the new series' faults, this scene was spot on in every way. It could be improved only by the original cast performing it in some alternate universe.
As Spock says in this clip, he "somehow managed to install and active a sub-routine in the programming code, thereby changing the conditions of the test." Haven't you seen the film? The Kobayashi Maru simulation was programmed to be unwinnable. But Kirk made it so the Klingon vessel's lost their shields so his ship was able to win. So he cheated.
How is that a cheat? The original simulation program made the assumption that the Klingon ships were perfect, and incapable of having system failures, yet providing possible system failures for the Starfleet ship. Kirk just made the test more realistic, as both sides were capable of problems and errors. To have an unwinnable situation is like playing yourself in chess. It’s just not logical. Just as illogical as Spock going from an instructor at the academy to a lesser officer on a starship. He was never an academy professor in the various older series. He was an officer, under “number one,” while Kirk was on another ship. Pike ended up injured, “Number one” went to another ship, likely as a captain, and Spock was promoted to first officer, as Kirk was assigned as captain of the Enterprise. Some of the old material actually has Kirk as an instructor at the Academy before getting command of the Enterprise.
@@MarcPieryit’s not really realistic, or if it was, was depicted in a way that makes this very hard to see if at all, if the birds or prey went from perfectly operational, to the simulation suffering a glitch, to them suddenly having no shields and no longer firing. It’s a little difficult to see how it would be realistic from this regard. It probably would’ve been better explained if the movie did a little more effort and have one of the crew go “Systems are showing that…The shields are dropping?” Then promptly another exclaiming that a virus somehow managed to transfer onboard the Klingon vessels’ systems and completely crippled their offensive capabilities as well, Maybe even having some variation where they were apparently the source of it appearing and a datalink was somehow established beforehand.
Still would appear absurd in the test, and very unlikely, if not “kind of” impossible, in an actual scenario, but it does give a somewhat of this more “realistic” case you said of Kirk’s shenanigans rather than the entire simulated bridge turning off and turning back on to a bunch of ships dead in space with absolutely no idea how they became like that. McCoy even took one look at the Klingon ships’s status at that when the simulation was back online, and that could have been the opportunity to impose something of that nature.
While it is one thing to have a system failure, it is something else entirely to suddenly have shields drop and weapons off without even explaining something remotely plausible other than: “simulation off, simulation on and perfectly operational, if not mint condition, ship somehow loses everything despite not being fired at nor being notorious for mechanical failures.” For all I know, those things could drive like a Cadillac because those ships weren’t even explained or known for failures in this timeline, yea sure you could assume the opposite and assume they’re crap because of the shields and weapons going down, but at least “some” notion of what happened would be enough to throw this mess of “realism” under a dirty carpet rug.
The Kobyashi Maru test is essentially a Starfleet Capt. personality test. The decision the test taker makes tells you the type of commander they will be. The Cadet who simply says “we can’t enter the neutral zone and violate treaty” has a completely different command style than the “guns blazing, fight to the last” cadet. The number of times they will take the test speaks volumes about the type of leader they would be as well. That’s why Kirk’s 3 attempts and his solution are unique, not to mention the “I don’t believe in a no-win scenario”. That’s one of the things about this that I don’t agree with, there isn’t really a way to pass or fail this test, it’s more of an evaluation of the type of Captain or leader the cadet would be.
You know after watching this movie 87 times- cause it's so awesome- I barely realized that the guy in charge of StarFleet was Tyler Perry.
that's because he's wearing a mask and it's really Madea under there. OH LERRD THE VULCANS IS UNDER ATTACK
His ears aren't the only things that's pointy...
Earl Jeane oH
I don't get it.....
are you referring to his nose? His intellectual capacity and wit?? His Volcan vagina??? what is it?
R/cursedcomments
In a movie full of incredible casting, I just can't get over Urban as Bones and Quinto as Spock. Absolutely stellar performances by both! I can't imagine better casting.
The Star Trek movies don’t get enough credit. The characters were cast perfectly, and they were just done so well all together.
I enjoyed the successors a bit more so than this one. But I agree 100%
I found more entertaining JJ's Star Trek movies (yes, even Into Darkness) than his Star Wars movies. It's funny.
TFA was a strong start to the sequel trilogy
Anyone who thought Kirk thought he would deceive anyone and “get away with it” is ludicrously insane.
Everyone knew he altered the test, and in Wrath of Khan IIRC he got a commendation.
"we don't expect kittens to fight wildcats and win - we merely expect them to try" - Colonel Nielssen, Terran Federation Mobile Infantry.
I’d like to know more!
We received a distress call from Vulcan. Send in all the red shirts...
Most people were surprised that Bones liked Spock but something else surprised me about this scene: Tyler Perry as the Star Fleet Admiral. I mean wow, he wasn't in the film that long, but Perry was awesome. I kinda wish he had more scenes with Pike and Kirk cause he was just really playing that role well.
Why are the commitee members dressed as fucking TNG ROMULANS?
"A captain cannot cheat death"
kirk: *watch this*
Kirk and Spock...too awesome together!
I mean, you can't really make a test instill fear in the test-taker unless you threaten them when they fail.
I just think Benedict Cumberbatch is cute in everything he does. :)
Glad to know that there are other "Harrison" fans out there. Whenever I say that I like him in my house, my family just stares at me and ask things like, "Why?!", "But he's the villain!", and "He's got a weird forehead!"
Kirk: I don’t think you like the fact that I beat you in chess.
Spock: *You somehow cheated*
This movie was my entry to the Star Trek universe! Pine and Quinto play off each other so good.
i think that Kirk's approach was the correct answer. remember the matrix: in order to bend the spoon, you must realize the truth: there is no spoon. Kirk would have been one of the few able to bend the spoon.
I liked this scene as a kid. Today I think it reflects some serious problems with the Abrams Trek series, and it's an omen of the bad writing to come-- not only in this series, but in the Disney Wars films as well. It's indicative of how little Abrams cares about the characters or plot in his films.
1. Why did they need to convene the entire Starfleet class for this hearing? Academic disciplinary hearings are typically intimate and private, and they only involve the parties that need to be there.
2. Spock speaks about the importance of a Starfleet captain experiencing fear, which means that he (a Vulcan) is arguing that captains must experience emotion to be good at their job. This contradiction could be explained with some dialogue (if Kirk called him on it, for example), but it goes unaddressed and therefore comes across as out-of-character.
3. The man presiding over this tribunal decides immediately to send the cadets into battle. How did he reach this decision? Does he not have to consult anyone? Why is a man with the authority to order multiple starships on a mission wasting his time presiding over a basic academic hearing?
4. This scene does a good job of setting up an initial tension between Kirk and Spock, thus subverting the audience's expectations. But this plot point ultimately doesn't go anywhere. Kirk never acknowledges any wrongdoing to Spock, and Spock never comes to understand Kirk's emotional motives for doing what he did. A later scene in this film in which these two admit some fault for this confrontation and bond would have gone a long way towards establishing their friendship. But instead this is never addressed again; Spock maroons Kirk, Kirk emotionally bullies Spock, Spock lashes out violently, and then suddenly they're friends. The biggest problem with the Abrams Trek movies is their failure to appropriately depict this friendship, and so the failure to call back to this scene represents a major missed opportunity from a writing perspective.
Star Trek '09 was fun at the time, but with hindsight it just looks like a harbinger of doom for two beloved sci-fi series.
They both make convincing argument! 😊
Spock with the Picard Maneuver.
Could Bones be the Poe Dameron of Star Trek?
The Kobayashi Maru is a test of character. You know it is sim and you cannot win. The academy knows you know. They just want to see how you act during the test.
The test had many purposes, but one of the main ones is to make sure that the people in command of one of the most impressive (and society wide investment) pieces of equipment with hundreds of lives on it is commanded in a way that maximizes its use, aka that they use the best tactics. It should not be this ship makes it to level 10 and this one 40 and that one 80, it should be grouped like 77-84 with individual talent determining those small differences. Theoretically, all the people who get to that post should be willing to give their life if needed, but not in a way that throws it away (described above how that is achieved). It also makes it second nature for everyone to just be doing ehat needs to be done in those scenarios and knowing that you did all you could do. How many conflicts require that level 80 ability? It prepares the crew to not buckle in a level 59 conflict and to trust in their training and world class equipment to carry the day through generationally built leadership knowledge that they have seen/been a part of in sims with to trust.
What's expected is for Captain's to keep their cool during no-win situations. And Vulcans do have the ability to feel - they simply choose to control their emotions.
I do understand what this test is trying to do. To prepare for a worst case scenario, because lets face it. No one said there would be no danger when joining starfleet.
But on the other hand, if you were told you were about to walk into a situation where you cannot win, it's not like your just going to logically walk into that situation. Adapt and improvise.
Well, Spock really should have thought about it this way.
If his ultimate goal was for the tested cadets to experience fear in the face of a scenario where death and loss was a certainty at some level. Then he really should have anticipated a natural fear response was for people to find a workaround or loophole in the face of it, in an attempt to avoid the emotional response all together. It's more his fault for allowing people to retry the test before there was adequate time to make changes between classes. Or even allowing people to retake the test to begin with.
Really, Kirk should have been reprimanded more for the unethical methods (ie. seducing and risking compromising the career of another cadet. Unfortunately pared down on in the theatrical cut) and not for something that in the original continuity he got accommodation for.
0:15 yes I believe I have the right to face my accuser directly
0:21 oh no he's hot
Me too! He's super smart and I like his ears!
And so love was born...
This was actually a really good movie regardless of what critics said. It paid homage to the old while giving everyone a fresh look at "before the beginning". Into Darkness was good as well but lacked the punch developed from the first. The 3rd Beyond suffered movie goers with something that should have been a TV special.
What are you talking about? Critics loved the movie. 90% on rotten tomatoes
actually audience 80%. It was so good they stopped making any more for the franchise. @@christianschmidt8476
I actually enjoyed Into Darkness and Beyond a bit more than this one.
The Kobayashi Maru test seems to be just a formality, one final hoop to jump through before becoming a Star Fleet officer. If the test is unwinnable, then failing it won't prevent you from becoming a starship commander. I'm not sure why Kirk was brought before a formal committee if the test is trivial to begin with. Years later, Saavik failed the test miserably, all the ships including her vessel were destroyed by the Klingons and all Kirk did was tell her that how we deal with death is as important as how we deal with life, then I don't know, a few scenes later he had sex with her in a turbo lift, its been a long time since I've seen that movie. The point is, she didn't wash out and was stationed aboard the Enterprise during what was supposed to be a routine training cruise. No wait Savik had sex with Spock, when the Genesis wave regenerated his body and he was in his teenage years. There's no telling how old Saavik was supposed to be, she could have been 90 years old for all we know. That makes what happened pretty sick actually. But I digress. Kirk and Spock are both pretty awesome and popular with the ladies too.
THere was no sex between Spock and Saavik was there? If there was it was outside of the movie borders and non-cannon...
Cheating is cheating, even if you did it to prove a point. It violates the Academy's Ethics Code of Conduct, just like it would at an IRL school/college/university.
When I lose to my parents at a card game I taught them: 0:37
The test is purported to be a test to examine how cadets do in no-win situations, but if the end result is always that the cadet being tested loses and experiences lesser or greater amounts of humiliation, it plays out in actuality as more of a hazing scenario (rather than being a test that you can pass by studying). If you knew that your peers were going to have to go through the same test (essentially an exercise in humiliation), wouldn't you owe it to them to try to break the test? At least it's a short "test" (not one that is repeated "Groundhog Day" style! :-D)